Author Topic: TEK-60 - Just another GH60 case.. (Read 13160 times)

Photekq · « **on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:34:21 »

..but this time with a slight twist.

It's a tray.. but not as we know it.

First thing you'll notice.. it's got blockers. Why haven't we seen this on a tray before? Because you'd need an insanely complex 3d armed CNC machine (6 axis CNC mill) to machine underneath the blockers.

Second thing you'll notice.. it's got a huge god damn hole in the bottom. Why is this here? So that the area underneath the blockers can be machined from below!

But wait.. who the hell's going to want a huge hole in their case? Where are the standoffs going to go?

It's got a second part.

Could be made from anything although I'm thinking brass.. 'cause who doesn't like brass?

So yeah. Anyone got any thoughts? Can't say whether this will actually happen.. but I'd like it to. I think the idea is pretty cool - finally.. a tray with blockers.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:36:03 »

That's just bad brass!!

Jocelyn · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:36:50 »

Not a big fan of blockers, but this concept looks incredible!!!

Tym · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:37:00 »

Thats pretty cool although maybe it should be renamed RFH-60 (...Really ****ing Heavy) and I have the perfect keycaps for that; if you ever put this into production I'll send you one!

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:39:13 »

I really dislike Winkeyless layouts. I'd rather see like those metal blockers in the board rather than ones built into the case. But I think the design is very clever. Just as clever as the TEK-80 cutout and weight.

And what you're thinking of is probably a 6 axis CNC mill.

Photekq · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:42:45 »

Quote from: Tym on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:37:00

Thats pretty cool although maybe it should be renamed RFH-60 (...Really ****ing Heavy) and I have the perfect keycaps for that; if you ever put this into production I'll send you one!

) Yes, I imagine it would be really ****ing heavy!

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:39:13

I really dislike Winkeyless layouts. I'd rather see like those metal blockers in the board rather than ones built into the case. But I think the design is very clever. Just as clever as the TEK-80 cutout and weight.

And what you're thinking of is probably a 6 axis CNC mill.

Doesn't have to be winkey. I just designed it like that because I love winkey so, so much. Thanks though and also thank you for the proper term. I knew 'insanely complex 3d armed CNC machine' didn't sound quite right

)

Thimplum · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:48:11 »

Those blockers remind me of Model Ms.

Tym · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:49:21 »

Quote from: Thimplum on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:48:11

Those blockers remind me of Model Ms.

Thats because they both are winkeyless?

Photekq · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:49:29 »

Quote from: Thimplum on Sat, 22 June 2013, 09:48:11

Those blockers remind me of Model Ms.

They are there to allow people to use a full keycap set from old Cherry keyboards. These keyboards often didn't have windows keys and instead had blockers (just like some Model Ms)

Photekq · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 11:23:00 »

And another possibility. HHKB.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:07:41 »

Dat HHKB....

Dubsgalore · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:20:40 »

at long last!

the TEK60 lives! i love the brass bottom

I still don't know what i want with my second gh60 layout...these all look great

Batmann · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:21:45 »

that's gorgeous Photek,
I like the tray concept LZ style, and also the brass bottom.
standoffs are not uber sexy but they will give an unmatchable solid feel (that's what I noticed switching from LZ boards to awesome poker)
I will keep an eye on this even though I'm not sure I will be in the market for another tkl case.

and also good job on mastering CAD software in no time!

PS: any price range?

Photekq · « **Reply #13 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:25:05 »

Quote from: Batmann on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:21:45

that's gorgeous Photek,
I like the tray concept LZ style, and also the brass bottom.
standoffs are not uber sexy but they will give an unmatchable solid feel (that's what I noticed switching from LZ boards to awesome poker)
I will keep an eye on this even though I'm not sure I will be in the market for another tkl case.

and also good job on mastering CAD software in no time!

PS: any price range?

Gotta go with standoffs for a tray anyway.

Price range.. err.. like I said I don't know whether this will lift off but I don't think the price would be too high. The design is very, very, VERY simple and despite what some people seem to think brass is not a very exotic material. I can't give you an estimate price but I think it would be affordable.

Thanks for the compliments

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #14 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:37:58 »

I still think that brass isn't used much because of the galvanic corrosion issue. Take a look at this. Unless you passivate everything you have, there could be issues. I've always wondered how the 456 and 356 avoids this problem.

Photekq · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:44:15 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:37:58

I still think that brass isn't used much because of the galvanic corrosion issue. Take a look at this. Unless you passivate everything you have, there could be issues. I've always wondered how the 456 and 356 avoids this problem.

Thanks for posting that. I'll have to look into it.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:46:44 »

This is the same reason why when The_Beast and I were talking about having brass feet for his design, we shied away from it. We just don't know a lot about it and I don't know the cost to passivate things. I just know that for the stuff I've worked on in my day jobs, we do or have done it. And as I've said in other threads, any additional steps you add to the manufacturing process adds to the cost.

I've never actually gotten an answer about the galvanic corrosion issue so if you or anyone else could find out, that'd be really cool to know. I bring it up every time there's a brass part in a case for this reason.

Photekq · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:49:32 »

I'm wondering if anodising the case and (alu)screws would stop the corrosion from occuring. As I said I'll have to look into this.. they don't teach this crap in school.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:52:45 »

I always thought that the anodizing would help but if that's true, then why don't we see more brass designs? As you've pointed out to me, the material cost isn't too bad and I think it's fairly easy to machine. There must be a reason.

I'll ask around my workplace on Monday. Someone might know.

Edit: So I did a little poking around and I think I might have an answer. We usually do soft anodizing just to get the color on the case and for light protection. This process is relatively cheap and the anodization layer is relatively thin. If we wanted better corrosion protection, we would hard anodize it which means the layer of anodization is thicker. The downside is that hard anodization is expensive. But like I said before, I will ask on Monday when my smarter and more experienced co-workers are back.

Photekq · « **Reply #19 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:55:13 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:52:45

I always thought that the anodizing would help but if that's true, then why don't we see more brass designs? As you've pointed out to me, the material cost isn't too bad and I think it's fairly easy to machine. There must be a reason.

I'll ask around my workplace on Monday. Someone might know.

In fact I think brass is the most easy metal to machine. Its properties are also very good for threads and other things. I think people don't use it because, well, it's unnecessary in most cases (pun not intended) and it adds costs. Only a few people are willing to pay more for it. Of course in this design it makes sense since a second piece is needed.

If you could ask around that'd be much appreciated. I'll do some research myself too.

mkawa · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:55:35 »

what are the dimensions of the top piece? if i can fit it on my build plate i can build em (but upside down lol)

Photekq · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:56:26 »

Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:55:35

what are the dimensions of the top piece? if i can fit it on my build plate i can build em (but upside down lol)

305.5x115mm, about 40mm at the highest point.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:59:21 »

I ninja edited my last post on the anodization issue Photekq. Let me know what you think.

Photekq · « **Reply #23 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:00:29 »

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:59:21

I ninja edited my last post on the anodization issue Photekq. Let me know what you think.

I'm familiar with hard anodisation and from the few quotes I've got the price difference is small. However, I think it's used mainly for dark colours. Especially black. Not sure about reds, blues, greys etc.

agodinhost · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:01:52 »

Another awesome work man!
Save something for our open source project ok?

mkawa · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:02:20 »

length is a little too long.. can you split it into two halves that fasten? i can do 250mm L at a time

every other dimension is a-ok

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:02:27 »

Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:00:29

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:59:21
I ninja edited my last post on the anodization issue Photekq. Let me know what you think.
I'm familiar with hard anodisation and from the few quotes I've got the price difference is small. However, I think it's used mainly for dark colours. Especially black. Not sure about reds, blues, greys etc.

Ok, let me ask around. I'm glad you've asked for quotes though because I don't really deal with any quotes ever. I just know processes and other stuff. And I really don't know material coatings/treatments as well as I want to and I'm more interested in solving the corrosion issue than colors.

Photekq · « **Reply #27 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:03:59 »

Quote from: agodinhost on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:01:52

Another awesome work man!
Save something for our open source project ok?

Of course man! Just waiting for PCB finalisation before I finalise the OS designs

and thanks.

Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:02:20

length is a little too long.. can you split it into two halves that fasten? i can do 250mm L at a time

every other dimension is a-ok

I could but at the moment the design isn't finished or ready for use. Just the aesthetics atm.

Quote from: CPTBadAss on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:02:27

Ok, let me ask around. I'm glad you've asked for quotes though because I don't really deal with any quotes ever. I just know processes and other stuff. And I really don't know material coatings/treatments as well as I want to and I'm more interested in solving the corrosion issue than colors.

Yeah, corrosion is ofc the most important issue. I'll wait and see what you hear.

mkawa · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:05:02 »

sweet! i can print that top then. don't worry a bit about the internal ledge. it's ezpz for an extruder

Photekq · « **Reply #29 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:07:19 »

Quote from: mkawa on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:05:02

sweet! i can print that top then. don't worry a bit about the internal ledge. it's ezpz for an extruder

I'll try and remember to send you the file once I've actually got it in a functional state. No idea when that'll be.. whenever TEK-80 is done and when komar has finalised GH60 I guess.

agodinhost · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:09:01 »

Quote from: Photekq on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:03:59

Quote from: agodinhost on Sat, 22 June 2013, 13:01:52
Another awesome work man!
Save something for our open source project ok?

Of course man! Just waiting for PCB finalisation before I finalise the OS designs and thanks.

Np at all - just teasing you.
As soon as I get my hands at the gh60 prototype I'll note you it's metrics.

bazemk1979 · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 22 June 2013, 17:35:26 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Sat, 22 June 2013, 12:07:41

Dat HHKB....

Show Image

dat pudding face!!!

Melvang · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:10:09 »

On the galvanic corrosion issue. I did 5 years in the Navy working as an Aviation Structural Mechanic on H-60s. On that aircraft 99% of the airframe and structural components is Al. In a salt water environment (deployment) anywhere that anything but Al touches it for the most part one of the two parts will corrode. The way we get around that is for the most part just paint. All I know about the paint that was used was that it was a poly based paint. However the only place that we had to be particularly careful was around the engine bay and the gear box mounts.

For the gearbox mounts the issue there was an Al frame for the aircraft and the gearbox casing was magnesium. Yes the metal that burns. They way that corrosion issue was solved was a combination of a special anti-seize and a stainless sacrificial plate. More of a shim really as it was probably in the realm of .020 inches thick.

In the engine bay the heat shield on the engine side was a thin layer of Ti. Now Ti does have a galvanic reaction with Al. The way around this was to install a layer of stainless steel between the Ti and the Al. What this did was split the difference between the galvanic properties of the Al and the Ti. End result in the area was zero corrosion.

So based on this I believe that the best way to prevent any galvanic corrosion would be a combination of things. First and foremost, prevent any physical contact between the brass and the Al. Not sure if anodizing would fix this as essentially anodizing is just a chemical conversion of the surface layer. It is not adding anything new to the surface of the substrate. My personal suggestions would be some sort of heat cured paint like an automotive style or something as simple as a single layer of electrical tape. The reason I am suggestion the electrical tape is the process at which galvanic corrosion occurs. In addition to this stainless screws could be used.

Actually I just did a search on wikipedia and according to the chart toward the bottom of the page and the limits in the paragraph above it, you should be good between Al and brass. For those that want the link it can be found here.

Just my 2 cents from a high school drop out.

Melvang

Photekq · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:14:20 »

Thanks for that melvang. Helps a lot

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:18:31 »

Beast and I did talk about using tape or something to prevent physical contact but we decided it'd look bad.

And your experience is way better than any of the guessing I've done so thank you Melvang.

Melvang · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:20:27 »

Wouldn't Have to look bad. Just install it where the contact would be made and then just trim it back with a straight edge and a razor blade, hobby knife, utility knife or other suitable very sharp instrument.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:26:17 »

I understand but if we sold it as a DIY kit like the KMAC, then we might get complaints that the tape is messed up or something. Hard to murphy-proof it I think.

Melvang · « **Reply #37 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:34:44 »

Yup cause Murphy is a motha. However, according to that chart Al and brass should for the most part play nicely together provided it didn't get anything spilled in it that has an electrolyte solution such as sports drinks. Plus from my general consensus and experience suggestions like what was posted in that wikipedia page generally err on the conservative side of things. I would be willing to bet that it would be safe.

CPTBadAss · « **Reply #38 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:46:38 »

The thing I suggested when this came up is that the boards are going to very different places. If someone in Singapore or like Louisiana buys it, somewhere where its humid and near the ocean, is that going to speed or affect the rate of corrosion? I honestly don't know.

mashby · « **Reply #39 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:53:15 »

FWIW, I haven't had any corrosion issues with the brass weights in my Duck Poker that I've had for the past 5 months. The brass is polished and the case is anodized, but I also haven't taken it to the beach while funneling gatorade during a keg stand.

Photekq · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:56:51 »

Also, anodising stops the aluminium surface from conducting electricity. This should pretty much 100% stop galvanic corrosion.

Melvang · « **Reply #41 on:** Fri, 28 June 2013, 11:18:15 »

Very good points. One other thing that could work if someone is truly worried about it would be to have the brass machined in a way that when it is screwed to the Al piece there is a small gap on the vertical surfaces and install an o-ring between the brass and the Al on the screw and just not completely tighten the screws to iron worker tight.

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Author Topic: TEK-60 - Just another GH60 case.. (Read 13160 times)