[GB (almost) CANCELLED] BSP DYE SUB

[IPT]

I was not part of this GB, but skimping over it I think there are valuable lessons to be learnt.

Am I correct in my conclusions that what happened was that this sherry dude ordered a bunch of keycaps from bsp and then the kboardvintage guy tried to opportunistically buy direct from bsp additional keysets by asking bsp to extend the run and provide a limited quantity at a favourable price?  Then kboardvintage collected money from users, handed over the money to BSP, then Sherry got upset and strong armed BSP to default on the keysets promised to kboardvintage?

Besides the initials in the bsp sku, does Sherry have any intellectual property rights over those specific keysets that gave him the right to block others from acquiring the same product?

Or did he simply strong arm BSP to kill kboardvintage's gb wth the muscle of a 400 keyset purchase order + possibility of future business?

What happened to the money kboardvintage had collected?  BSP do not owe anyone other than kboardvintage any explanation as far as I can see.  And no one other than kboardvintage owes any of those hurt by the failed GB any explanation.

What however I find most disturbing in interest groups such as gh however is how some players are held in veneration as righteous and the go to people even when their actions speak otherwise.  In this case there have been comments where keyboard enthusiasts have not only lost money on this gb and defended the person who ultimately knifed the gb and put their money in jeopardy but went scurrying back to that user handing over more money for the same keysets.

As the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

1st part of the problem:
BSP's MOQ is 400 pieces
without sherry's order, this keyset was not gonna get through

explain to me how its fair for kboardvintage to come and piggy back on sherry's order?
Sherry's order involved him paying for the whole order out of pocket, without starting up a GB.
KB offered the keyset at a similar low price after the 400MOQ was agreed to on sherry's order.

Let me ask you, if you've invested over $20,000 in a product, then someone comes along and piggybacks on your investment for the product with the goal of distributing to your potential customers, how would you feel?

This isn't about someone being thought of as righteous or what not.  Its quite simply very simple business.

BSP made the mistake of trying to profit off an order that one of their customers placed.  The argument that sherry's order of 400 was in, so they should just sell the extra orders to anyone else is ridiculous.
If they conducted their business like this, they would lose a ton of customers.  You don't see SP allowing people to buy our GB keysets or produce more than our GB amounts do you?

Part 2 of the problem:
Instead of trying to workout some way with sherry, say move the orders to sherry instead of trying to proceed with the gb.  Or contacting sherry and offering to buy out at his price these pieces, KB instead believes he's entitled to his product order and tries to get BSP to continue with his order.  i personally don't see how a company refunding the $$ for an order is a breach of contract, maybe its different in london?  As long as $$ was returned how is there a breach?

Anyway so KB decides to nag sherry, not refund the $$ to the groupbuy members, and basically then disappears off of GH.  So you can say sherry's "wrong" for stopping 19 sets from being processed in this GB.
But frankly speaking, KB shows he's just a coward for disappearing and not coming back.  He claims paypal's claimed over 2 grand from his accounts, but i'm pretty sure the order cost more than 2 grand so in the end he still profits and goes away, screwing all the people who tried to participate in this gb.
So say what you want about sherry, he's still around GH and running his store.  Kboardvantage has disappeared from GH and ran off with $.  You decide who's the bigger douchebag.

[sleepy916]

I was not part of this GB, but skimping over it I think there are valuable lessons to be learnt.

Am I correct in my conclusions that what happened was that this sherry dude ordered a bunch of keycaps from bsp and then the kboardvintage guy tried to opportunistically buy direct from bsp additional keysets by asking bsp to extend the run and provide a limited quantity at a favourable price?  Then kboardvintage collected money from users, handed over the money to BSP, then Sherry got upset and strong armed BSP to default on the keysets promised to kboardvintage?

Besides the initials in the bsp sku, does Sherry have any intellectual property rights over those specific keysets that gave him the right to block others from acquiring the same product?

Or did he simply strong arm BSP to kill kboardvintage's gb wth the muscle of a 400 keyset purchase order + possibility of future business?

What happened to the money kboardvintage had collected?  BSP do not owe anyone other than kboardvintage any explanation as far as I can see.  And no one other than kboardvintage owes any of those hurt by the failed GB any explanation.

What however I find most disturbing in interest groups such as gh however is how some players are held in veneration as righteous and the go to people even when their actions speak otherwise.  In this case there have been comments where keyboard enthusiasts have not only lost money on this gb and defended the person who ultimately knifed the gb and put their money in jeopardy but went scurrying back to that user handing over more money for the same keysets.

As the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

1st part of the problem:
BSP's MOQ is 400 pieces
without sherry's order, this keyset was not gonna get through

explain to me how its fair for kboardvintage to come and piggy back on sherry's order?
Sherry's order involved him paying for the whole order out of pocket, without starting up a GB.
KB offered the keyset at a similar low price after the 400MOQ was agreed to on sherry's order.

Let me ask you, if you've invested over $20,000 in a product, then someone comes along and piggybacks on your investment for the product with the goal of distributing to your potential customers, how would you feel?

This isn't about someone being thought of as righteous or what not.  Its quite simply very simple business.

BSP made the mistake of trying to profit off an order that one of their customers placed.  The argument that sherry's order of 400 was in, so they should just sell the extra orders to anyone else is ridiculous.
If they conducted their business like this, they would lose a ton of customers.  You don't see SP allowing people to buy our GB keysets or produce more than our GB amounts do you?

Part 2 of the problem:
Instead of trying to workout some way with sherry, say move the orders to sherry instead of trying to proceed with the gb.  Or contacting sherry and offering to buy out at his price these pieces, KB instead believes he's entitled to his product order and tries to get BSP to continue with his order.  i personally don't see how a company refunding the $$ for an order is a breach of contract, maybe its different in london?  As long as $$ was returned how is there a breach?

Anyway so KB decides to nag sherry, not refund the $$ to the groupbuy members, and basically then disappears off of GH.  So you can say sherry's "wrong" for stopping 19 sets from being processed in this GB.
But frankly speaking, KB shows he's just a coward for disappearing and not coming back.  He claims paypal's claimed over 2 grand from his accounts, but i'm pretty sure the order cost more than 2 grand so in the end he still profits and goes away, screwing all the people who tried to participate in this gb.
So say what you want about sherry, he's still around GH and running his store.  Kboardvantage has disappeared from GH and ran off with $.  You decide who's the bigger douchebag.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of writing something like this.

[Photoelectric]

But frankly speaking, KB shows he's just a coward for disappearing and not coming back.  He claims paypal's claimed over 2 grand from his accounts, but i'm pretty sure the order cost more than 2 grand so in the end he still profits and goes away, screwing all the people who tried to participate in this gb.
So say what you want about sherry, he's still around GH and running his store.  Kboardvantage has disappeared from GH and ran off with $.  You decide who's the bigger douchebag.

This is pretty much the conclusion of this thread.  This is really what happened.  Despite any circumstances short of Kboardvintage being in a hospital this whole time or unable to access the internet (and even then, he could have had someone post for him), he simply disappeared and stopped updating--and for all we can see, completely dropped any attempts to recover the money for those who paid.  In the grand scheme, that's all that really matters here.  Even if he was in the right initially, which he wasn't, there's no excuse to simply vanish with other people's money.

[tbc]

I'm confused, where did the extra money go?  did kbd keep it?  or did kbd actually send the money to BSP and BSP kept it?  or did kbd send the money to BSP, they refunded the money to kbd, and then kbd kept what was left after paypal handled it?

[Photoelectric]

Seeing as it's up to KBDvintage to tell us what happened, and he's not here--there's really no way to know what the latest status is.  I think he paid BSP, and he said that extra sets were already produced.  What happened with those extra sets and the money is uncertain.

P.S.: the last detailed update:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43104.msg933104#msg933104

And from the update in the OP:

"I read a lot of comments in the GB. My apologies to all those who feel frustrated with the actual situation. Most of you guys have file a complain via paypal and so far paypal is already taking care of those (I ll be consider as a "scammer" in the paypal system so, again, THANKS).
About BSP, the people responsible of dealing with my order are now on holidays (as they just told me via phone) and will be back somewhere end of July. I have already request a full refund, but apparently within the "backup" team left, no accountant is present...so SURPRISE, your money is still at BSP's hands, at least until August."

Seeing as it's January now, I'd hope he should have gotten something back.

[damorgue]

You always have to pay extra for exclusivity and I don't think Sherry did that, which is why it was fully within BSP's right to also sell to someone else. Then Sherry went to BSP and complained, and BSP decided to side with Sherry and then turned down keyboardvintage's order. That is my conclusion at least.

Sherry messed up, BSP covered for him by breaking another order even though they had no responsibility to do so which is how they messed up. BSP ought to have refunded keyboardvintage though, and he hasn't returned with this money which is where he messed up. Although Sherry was the first to make a mistake, they all did something wrong in my eyes.

[Photoelectric]

Don't you think though that BSP could have said no to Sherry's request for exclusivity after Sherry inquired about the extra sets?  It wasn't very wrong to express outrage that BSP would produce extra sets at lower price per set based on Sherry's purchase from Sherry's perspective--wouldn't you agree?  I mean wouldn't you feel similarly if you'd invested your own money into something for your store and someone else jumped in to effectively steal some of your customers?  That's his perspective.  It's not like he MADE BSP offer extra sets to others and then made them deny those extra sets.  The fault is 1. with BSP for shady dealings, and 2. with Kboardvintage for not updating anymore and disappearing.

[sleepy916]

In the end what matters is that Kboardvintage must have got the money back. I don't think BSP as a company wouldn't refund him the money if he did not get a product. He could have just refunded everyone and try again at another time. No harm, no foul. But nothing from him at all for months now.

So to summarize Sherry still got his sets, Kboardvintage probably got the GB money back from BSP, and the people who participated got the shaft.

The end.

[damorgue]

Don't you think though that BSP could have said no to Sherry's request for exclusivity after Sherry inquired about the extra sets?  It wasn't very wrong to express outrage that BSP would produce extra sets at lower price per set based on Sherry's purchase from Sherry's perspective--wouldn't you agree?  I mean wouldn't you feel similarly if you'd invested your own money into something for your store and someone else jumped in to effectively steal some of your customers?  That's his perspective.  It's not like he MADE BSP offer extra sets to others and then made them deny those extra sets.  The fault is 1. with BSP for shady dealings, and 2. with Kboardvintage for not updating anymore and disappearing.

I don't agree. If it wasn't mentioned in the contract, BSP had no liability to ensure exclusivity. This is in my experience always added to contracts, but since BSP didn't honour any such thing, I suspect it was left out. Had it been included, BSP would never have accepted keyboardvintage's order in the first place. I absolutely see why Sherry was upset, I would have been so too if I had realized I had forgotten such an important aspect, but that does not make it BSP's fault. They even helped Sherry even though they didn't have too, by breaking another established order. There is where BSP made their mistake in my opinion.

Edit: This is usually written in relation to the NDA section. If nothing like this has been specified, neither party can just assume that there is an NDA or exlusitivy agreement.

[Photoelectric]

You said it was Sherry's fault too, but my reply was explaining how it doesn't look like Sherry's fault.  It was more BSP's fault for allowing it all to happen as it did.  They should not have made extra sets and should not have offered them to another customer.  What does Sherry have to do with that part?  So he didn't sign the exclusivity part, and in that case, BSP could have just said "well, you didn't sign an exclusivity contract, so we have the legal right to keep both sets of orders at the original terms".  It was BSP's choice to change the terms on Kboardvintage. 

We don't know all the exact details anyway.  This is just what we've been told.

And regardless, this group buy is really in a rut more because of Kboardvintage's disappearance with the rest of the money from those who did not get theirs back via PayPal disputes.

[damorgue]

You said it was Sherry's fault too, but my reply was explaining how it doesn't look like Sherry's fault.  It was more BSP's fault for allowing it all to happen as it did.  They should not have made extra sets and should not have offered them to another customer.  What does Sherry have to do with that part?

They on the other hand had no reason not to not accept the second order and make extra sets. Why shouldn't they make them if someone else orders them and there is nothing preventing them to? Sherry has to do with it in that he first made the mistake of not specifying that BSP wasn't allowed to do this, and secondly conveyed BSP to honour an agreement which was never there in the first place. I assume there was no such agreement beforehand simply because BSP being a large company would have honoured such an agreement if there was one.

So he didn't sign the exclusivity part, and in that case, BSP could have just said "well, you didn't sign an exclusivity contract, so we have the legal right to keep both sets of orders at the original terms".  It was BSP's choice to change the terms on Kboardvintage. 

Precisely, it was again wrong of Sherry to convince the company to break off another order, and wrong of BSP to agree to this.

Anyway, our opinions differ and lets leave it at that. My understanding is that Sherry made a mistake, then tried to cover his ass by converying BSP, which led to BSP accepting that request and cancelling an order, and then keyboardvintage stopped communicating and did not refund people.

[IPT]

You said it was Sherry's fault too, but my reply was explaining how it doesn't look like Sherry's fault.  It was more BSP's fault for allowing it all to happen as it did.  They should not have made extra sets and should not have offered them to another customer.  What does Sherry have to do with that part?  So he didn't sign the exclusivity part, and in that case, BSP could have just said "well, you didn't sign an exclusivity contract, so we have the legal right to keep both sets of orders at the original terms".  It was BSP's choice to change the terms on Kboardvintage. 

We don't know all the exact details anyway.  This is just what we've been told.

And regardless, this group buy is really in a rut more because of Kboardvintage's disappearance with the rest of the money from those who did not get theirs back via PayPal disputes.

frankly the main fault lies with BSP with the way they tried to conduct business.
Without sherry's 400MOQ order, they would not have produced the keycaps.
To come around and try to sell to someone else this initial order is dishonest.

You can say all you want about exclusivity and what not, the fact of the matter is this keyset would not exist without sherry's order.
not to mention during the time this was all getting sorted out, full production had not occurred i don't believe.

this is what would've happened if BSP continued with this order:
Sherry would cancel his order with BSP, probably stop doing business with them in the future, wouldn't surprise me if he'd spread his experience about how BSP takes advantage of MOQ orders to make a little extra on the side.

I don't see BSP continuing with the order for KB, they'd prob contact him and cancel the order or tell him he has to come up with the 400MOQ now to run the production.
which since he sold 19 sets here, i doubt he would be successful.  Just look at all the GMK sets we've tried to start here on GH (and please don't bring up toxic in this one, until that GB's restarted the "order list" is just letters.

Either way, the fault now 100% lies with KBvintage because frankly he went MIA and ran off with everyone's $$.

*EDIT*

You said it was Sherry's fault too, but my reply was explaining how it doesn't look like Sherry's fault.  It was more BSP's fault for allowing it all to happen as it did.  They should not have made extra sets and should not have offered them to another customer.  What does Sherry have to do with that part?

They on the other hand had no reason not to not accept the second order and make extra sets. Why shouldn't they make them if someone else orders them and there is nothing preventing them to? Sherry has to do with it in that he first made the mistake of not specifying that BSP wasn't allowed to do this, and secondly conveyed BSP to honour an agreement which was never there in the first place. I assume there was no such agreement beforehand simply because BSP being a large company would have honoured such an agreement if there was one.

So he didn't sign the exclusivity part, and in that case, BSP could have just said "well, you didn't sign an exclusivity contract, so we have the legal right to keep both sets of orders at the original terms".  It was BSP's choice to change the terms on Kboardvintage. 

Precisely, it was again wrong of Sherry to convince the company to break off another order, and wrong of BSP to agree to this.

Anyway, our opinions differ and lets leave it at that. My understanding is that Sherry made a mistake, then tried to cover his ass by converying BSP, which led to BSP accepting that request and cancelling an order, and then keyboardvintage stopped communicating and did not refund people.

because its bad business to do this.
Do you see SP selling extra sets that we do GB's on?
Why can't i contact SP and tell them to run another Red Alert set with OG legends?  Its already been done, the tooling is done, why is it wrong for them to sell me a few sets of that?
How about telling them to run another set of the graphite set that some have sold for $200+?
Or a Soware set that sells for $200?

Only person I see selling sets he produces for GBs is IMSTO but we all know how business is done in China so meh.

[piraterice]

Till now,i think that the problem of this gb had no business with sherry.The attitude of kboardvintage to this gb made us disappointed  a lot------just disappear with out any updating,made all the money we paid disappeared without a trace.I thought what u have argued about this gb made  no sense,u just have to find somebody of ghers who can contact with him,and tell him to come out to explain all of it, that is the way so solve the problem of this gb!

[nubbinator]

They on the other hand had no reason not to not accept the second order and make extra sets. Why shouldn't they make them if someone else orders them and there is nothing preventing them to? Sherry has to do with it in that he first made the mistake of not specifying that BSP wasn't allowed to do this, and secondly conveyed BSP to honour an agreement which was never there in the first place. I assume there was no such agreement beforehand simply because BSP being a large company would have honoured such an agreement if there was one.

Precisely, it was again wrong of Sherry to convince the company to break off another order, and wrong of BSP to agree to this.

This GB was only possible because they were piggybacking on Sherry's purchase and thus circumventing the MOQ.  There would have been no issue if they had done a full order at BSP's MOQ.  Sherry was rightfully upset when some potential customers were being sold his product without having to meet the same MOQ requirements that he did. 

For all intents and purposes, this group buy was like the authentic knock offs that are made in China.  They're made on the same line with the same materials as the real stuff, but after the official hours and are sold as fakes.  The manufacturer is stealing from the customer and reducing the potential customer base.

The initial fault was with BSP and I'd say it stayed with them and not sherry.  However, once BSP offered a refund and OP refused it and tried to coerce them into making the set anyways, well, the blame transferred to them.

How about telling them to run another set of the graphite set that some have sold for $200+?
Or a Soware set that sells for $200?

Someone could set up a GB for those if they wanted to.  The problem would only exist if the original group buy had custom tooling or had some sort of copyright on the colors.

[damorgue]

because its bad business to do this.
Do you see SP selling extra sets that we do GB's on?

Yes, I bought some Red Alert from them after the GB for instance.

Why can't i contact SP and tell them to run another Red Alert set with OG legends?  Its already been done, the tooling is done, why is it wrong for them to sell me a few sets of that?

You can. Some sets have been made several times. Sometimes you can't make a replica because some legends and colours are copyrighted. In the case of klaxxon Red Alert, they could be bought from SP outside of the GB.

How about telling them to run another set of the graphite set that some have sold for $200+?

Graphite is one of the sets where an agreement was made to not sell outside. This is also true for the tooling of the Cherry replica fonts which not just anyone can use.

I stand by my point that unless you agree on NDAs and exclusivity agreements beforehand, you can not expect the other party to adhere to any of your expectations on such matters. I stand by that Sherry is to blame for messing this all up by convincing BSP to cancel this order. BSP is to blame for agreeing to such a request, and keyboardvintage is to blame for not refunding people.

#blamestorming, the new brainstorming method

Depending on keyboardvintage's agreement with BSP, it might not be possible for him to get his money back. It might be the case that he has paid part of a large MOQ order, which has gone into production, and will need to pay the rest to have it delivered, and can't get it back because it has already been produced. This of course depends on the contracts, but if that is the case then keyboardvintage can do nothing about it.

[IPT]

Kbv already said his order is 19 sets. Also I can't get red alert custom legends made for me from sp so yeah I guess my point stands

[synerr]

1st part of the problem:
BSP's MOQ is 400 pieces
without sherry's order, this keyset was not gonna get through

explain to me how its fair for kboardvintage to come and piggy back on sherry's order?
Sherry's order involved him paying for the whole order out of pocket, without starting up a GB.
KB offered the keyset at a similar low price after the 400MOQ was agreed to on sherry's order.

Let me ask you, if you've invested over $20,000 in a product, then someone comes along and piggybacks on your investment for the product with the goal of distributing to your potential customers, how would you feel?

This isn't about someone being thought of as righteous or what not.  Its quite simply very simple business.

BSP made the mistake of trying to profit off an order that one of their customers placed.  The argument that sherry's order of 400 was in, so they should just sell the extra orders to anyone else is ridiculous.
If they conducted their business like this, they would lose a ton of customers.  You don't see SP allowing people to buy our GB keysets or produce more than our GB amounts do you?

Part 2 of the problem:
Instead of trying to workout some way with sherry, say move the orders to sherry instead of trying to proceed with the gb.  Or contacting sherry and offering to buy out at his price these pieces, KB instead believes he's entitled to his product order and tries to get BSP to continue with his order.  i personally don't see how a company refunding the $$ for an order is a breach of contract, maybe its different in london?  As long as $$ was returned how is there a breach?

Anyway so KB decides to nag sherry, not refund the $$ to the groupbuy members, and basically then disappears off of GH.  So you can say sherry's "wrong" for stopping 19 sets from being processed in this GB.
But frankly speaking, KB shows he's just a coward for disappearing and not coming back.  He claims paypal's claimed over 2 grand from his accounts, but i'm pretty sure the order cost more than 2 grand so in the end he still profits and goes away, screwing all the people who tried to participate in this gb.
So say what you want about sherry, he's still around GH and running his store.  Kboardvantage has disappeared from GH and ran off with $.  You decide who's the bigger douchebag.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of writing something like this.

MOQ by itself means nothing.  If I were a manufacturer of, say plastic screws, I may put an MOQ of 5000 to cover the tooling, overheads, and opportunity cost for using that time and shop floor space to do something else.    If I have the opportunity that once set up I can extend the run and sell some more screws over the original order so be it.  If the original purchaser who had to meet the MOQ wanted an exclusive product then he should either own the rights to that product, or pay an additional premium to guarantee an exclusive run.  It's all in the terms and conditions.

How I would feel if I found myself in Sherry's position?  It's not about feelings.  It is about terms and conditions.

We don't know who breached what contracts and what moneys have exchanged hands between whom.  It has nothing to do with London but again it is down to the terms and conditions.  When I was contracting I used to charge a fixed amount for a project.  However I very often could not just walk away from a project and I had penalties for breaking a contract.  If say, someone paid me 10k to install a network, and I agreed to do it within a week, and then I just say ... sorry can't do it here's your money back ... I'd be bound by a break clause of probably at least half as much and would still leave the customer in deep trouble because time has passed and they still have no network.

In his thread sherry asked people not to be misled that this is his product.  I do not know that other than those being his initials on a SKU.  Whether he had the legal right to kill BSP's extended run or he was just throwing toys out of the pram I do not know.  I do find it distasteful though that any reputable supplier of a very specialist product would wilfully contribute to doing something that harms members of a friendly community, some lost hundreds of dollars, and while a few hundred quid mean nothing to some, they could be 6 months savings to other.

II just cannot believe the blind naivety of a lot of users when it comes to vendors ... it is the closest I've seen to Stockholm syndrome.    If you feel so strongly about a vendor's meeting the MOQ of an unprivileged product being taken advantage of by an opportunistic buyer whilst the manufacturer's tooling is still in place, then how do you feel about group buys set up by vendors where effectively they are only getting a community to co-sponsor their for-profit stock piling of an item they would otherwise not afford?

Meh

[Photoelectric]

Depending on keyboardvintage's agreement with BSP, it might not be possible for him to get his money back. It might be the case that he has paid part of a large MOQ order, which has gone into production, and will need to pay the rest to have it delivered, and can't get it back because it has already been produced. This of course depends on the contracts, but if that is the case then keyboardvintage can do nothing about it.

You seriously think that? It would be called Extortion, which should be illegal in most civilized countries.  If the agreement was to buy x sets for y price, a vendor can't suddenly increase the price and hold your money hostage.

[damorgue]

Depending on keyboardvintage's agreement with BSP, it might not be possible for him to get his money back. It might be the case that he has paid part of a large MOQ order, which has gone into production, and will need to pay the rest to have it delivered, and can't get it back because it has already been produced. This of course depends on the contracts, but if that is the case then keyboardvintage can do nothing about it.

You seriously think that? It would be called Extortion, which should be illegal in most civilized countries.  If the agreement was to buy x sets for y price, a vendor can't suddenly increase the price and hold your money hostage.

Of course. But if the agreement was to buy enough parts to satisfy the MOQ, and keyboardvintage was led to believe that this MOQ was low when it later became far higher, if BSP didn't ever state that this low MOQ was permanent to him he could have entered into an agreement without realizing that the MOQ had changed. He might have begun payment and production and then have been told that the MOQ was far higher than he had anticipated. Again, this all depends on communication, how the specifics were formulated, contract was worded and agreements which we are unaware of and currently just speculating in. What I am stating is that under certain circumstances, keyboardvintage comes of as perfectly innocent other than his lack of communication. He might be stuck in a situation where he is out some money as well, and not that he has been refunded and left with the money.

[IPT]

Depending on keyboardvintage's agreement with BSP, it might not be possible for him to get his money back. It might be the case that he has paid part of a large MOQ order, which has gone into production, and will need to pay the rest to have it delivered, and can't get it back because it has already been produced. This of course depends on the contracts, but if that is the case then keyboardvintage can do nothing about it.

You seriously think that? It would be called Extortion, which should be illegal in most civilized countries.  If the agreement was to buy x sets for y price, a vendor can't suddenly increase the price and hold your money hostage.

Of course. But if the agreement was to buy enough parts to satisfy the MOQ, and keyboardvintage was led to believe that this MOQ was low when it later became far higher, if BSP didn't ever state that this low MOQ was permanent to him he could have entered into an agreement without realizing that the MOQ had changed. He might have begun payment and production and then have been told that the MOQ was far higher than he had anticipated. Again, this all depends on communication, how the specifics were formulated, contract was worded and agreements which we are unaware of and currently just speculating in. What I am stating is that under certain circumstances, keyboardvintage comes of as perfectly innocent other than his lack of communication. He might be stuck in a situation where he is out some money as well, and not that he has been refunded and left with the money.

he posted BSP was going to process his refund, he instead wanted them to go through with his purchase.
So there's no MOQ agreement or whatever nonsense speculation you're thinking of.  So he's not out of money, i can assure you.
\
Fact of the matter is BSP was caught double dipping.  They were going to give the $$ back to KBV.  He didn't want the $$ back, he wanted the product.  I dunno why you seem to think KBV is absolutely innocent in this situation.
Do you have a personal vendetta against sherry?  You act like we're all blindly supporting sherry because we love him or idolize his ability to get keycaps.  I assure you that isn't the case considering i've only made 1 purchase from sherry and i still haven't gotten it yet.  But to defend KBV?  Im sorry but running off shows his true colors.  There's nothing innocent about that.

[sleepy916]

As a person who was in this GB, I don't care about MOQs at this point, I would just like my money back. Only Kboardvintage can refund the money. If he was truly innocent he would write something, anything, as an explanation within the past few months.

After this GB I still have not bought any of the BSP keysets that were offered on Sherry's website.

[piraterice]

Whoever start the GB must be responsible for all the GHers who took part in the GB,till now, me and my friends just believe that our money had lost~I must say that if this GB was started by me and came to this situation ,i will take my own money to pay back all the GBer who took part in,after that i will talk with the BSP company to ask my money back!

[feng]

Oh well, things happened. I have no hope to get my money back.

[ApocalypseMaow]

KBV has been gone for over a year... Money is long gone! :/

[piraterice]

KBV has been gone for over a year... Money is long gone! :/

:-[ALMOST 150 DOLLARS GONE!

[pbtforever]

Did this Group Buy ever happen?  Are ther other BSP group buys going on?

[SpAmRaY]

:facepalm:

[pbtforever]

What is the problem?  I am looking for thick PBT keys and these BSP ones look good.

[IvanIvanovich]

See this thread for a current BSP offerings.

I am locking this thread.