AcidFire's modular keyboard system - Axios [In Development]

[kittykatmax]

He did say it would be a stretch goal.  And it's not his fault.  He has to consider costs in order to get the project off the ground.  The lower actuation switches are more expensive.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.  I'm sure I don't have to say this, but if we want access to those lower actuation switches (or the other form factors for that matter), we should look at broadcasting AcidFire's project as loud and as far as we can to make sure he gets the funding he needs.  Let's look at this positively.  He's very close to starting his crowd funding.  As a community, let's focus on what we can do to make it successful, whether it be participating financially or getting the word out to people who can.  I'm excited for the board, even if the selection will be limited at the onset.  It won't be that way forever.  As long as he gets the support he'll need.

Ummm...I didn't say AcidFire was at "fault" for anything.  That appears to be coming straight from you.  It's AcidFire's project, he can do whatever he wants, and the rest of us are just happy he's willing to share. I simply expressed my personal disappointment as a severe RSI sufferer, and tried to back it up objectively, because in the past, AcidFire has been very welcoming of feedback.  As a more typical "end user" type, and as a female with RSI injuries, I sometimes offer a different perspective from the more typical "hard core" keyboard hacker/collector/enthusiast with strong "man hands."  Different perspectives are good - they can sometimes provide a more complete picture.     

That doesn't mean I expect him to change anything for little old me (you'll note, I didn't actually ASK him to), nor am I disappointed in HIM, or with the project in general.  I'm just disappointed.  And that's OK.  I've never gotten a pony either, and yet somehow I've survived.  And frankly, the pony thing is a MUCH bigger deal.



All the best, AcidFire!

[kfmfe04]

Browns feel dirty to me, too.

fwiw, I will patiently wait until an MX Red version is available - I don't have the skill and (debugging) patience to debug a badly soldered board (by me) so I'll wait until one is available in production.

[EvillePanda]

He did say it would be a stretch goal.  And it's not his fault.  He has to consider costs in order to get the project off the ground.  The lower actuation switches are more expensive.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.  I'm sure I don't have to say this, but if we want access to those lower actuation switches (or the other form factors for that matter), we should look at broadcasting AcidFire's project as loud and as far as we can to make sure he gets the funding he needs.  Let's look at this positively.  He's very close to starting his crowd funding.  As a community, let's focus on what we can do to make it successful, whether it be participating financially or getting the word out to people who can.  I'm excited for the board, even if the selection will be limited at the onset.  It won't be that way forever.  As long as he gets the support he'll need.

Ummm...I didn't say AcidFire was at "fault" for anything.  That appears to be coming straight from you.  It's AcidFire's project, he can do whatever he wants, and the rest of us are just happy he's willing to share. I simply expressed my personal disappointment as a severe RSI sufferer, and tried to back it up objectively, because in the past, AcidFire has been very welcoming of feedback.  As a more typical "end user" type, and as a female with RSI injuries, I sometimes offer a different perspective from the more typical "hard core" keyboard hacker/collector/enthusiast with strong "man hands."  Different perspectives are good - they can sometimes provide a more complete picture.     

That doesn't mean I expect him to change anything for little old me (you'll note, I didn't actually ASK him to), nor am I disappointed in HIM, or with the project in general.  I'm just disappointed.  And that's OK.  I've never gotten a pony either, and yet somehow I've survived.  And frankly, the pony thing is a MUCH bigger deal.



All the best, AcidFire!

That's fair.  I guess I misread.

[QuadGMoto]

AcidFire has mentioned that he is designing the switch mounting plates so that the switches can be opened without having to remove them. That means you can swap out springs without doing any kind of soldering.

That also means that due to how MX switches are designed, you could replace the stem and spring from the installed switch with the stem and spring of a different switch and the result will be that donor switch. The upper and lower case of the switches are exactly the same.

[doublethink665]

AcidFire has mentioned that he is designing the switch mounting plates so that the switches can be opened without having to remove them. That means you can swap out springs without doing any kind of soldering.

That also means that due to how MX switches are designed, you could replace the stem and spring from the installed switch with the stem and spring of a different switch and the result will be that donor switch. The upper and lower case of the switches are exactly the same.

Brilliant! I can make a Frankenswitch! I just might be able to make something perfect for me. I don't know what I need yet, but the first things I will try are lowering the activation force and reducing the distance to activation.

I don't dislike blues at all, I simply suffer from arthritis, thumbs that dislocate, and nerve damage.   I originally bought a QFR with blues, but after a few months I switched to a QFS with browns.  It's simply less fatiguing for me to type on, feels better when gaming (I play WoW), and it's less disruptive given I share a small home office with my husband.   I've thought of trying reds, but I like having a tactile bump, plus my fingers can be twitchy and I'd likely make accidental keystrokes.  Perhaps it's because I have smaller hands than the average woman, but I also sometimes tap my fingers on the keys, and never make accidental key presses on the browns.

I'm actually in the "older crowd" too.   When I started working in IT, it was supporting Apple IIe and IBM PS/2 computers - I always loved those IBM keyboards!  My hands are probably such a mess because I've used computer keyboards heavily since the 80s, plus I used to love to draw, embroider/cross stitch, knit and make jewelry.  I reluctantly gave up my other hobbies, but they'll pry my computer keyboard from my cold dead hands!

Right on! I started writing code in '94. Good times. Even my giant hands have started to wear down from years of typing. Good ol' Apple IIe. My school had Apple IIes until the early 2000s. Those things were tanks.

I like to tap my fingers on the keys, too. Sometimes I lightly press the keys and let them spring back up.

I know that no matter what comes of this project, I won't be 100% happy right away. That's part of the fun. This is going to be vastly better than everything else I have ever tried. I am so picky and I change my mind so often that no one thing can ever fit all of my needs. I look at this as an adventure.

Wow. I just previewed this post and it is all over the place. That's what I get for posting when I have a fever :-)

[jacobolus]

Brilliant! I can make a Frankenswitch! I just might be able to make something perfect for me. I don't know what I need yet, but the first things I will try are lowering the activation force and reducing the distance to activation.

You should look into the “jailhouse blue” mod. Your goals sound similar to what Leslieann was able to hack together http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38091.30

[AcidFire]

He did say it would be a stretch goal.  And it's not his fault.  He has to consider costs in order to get the project off the ground.  The lower actuation switches are more expensive.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.  I'm sure I don't have to say this, but if we want access to those lower actuation switches (or the other form factors for that matter), we should look at broadcasting AcidFire's project as loud and as far as we can to make sure he gets the funding he needs.  Let's look at this positively.  He's very close to starting his crowd funding.  As a community, let's focus on what we can do to make it successful, whether it be participating financially or getting the word out to people who can.  I'm excited for the board, even if the selection will be limited at the onset.  It won't be that way forever.  As long as he gets the support he'll need.

Ummm...I didn't say AcidFire was at "fault" for anything.  That appears to be coming straight from you.  It's AcidFire's project, he can do whatever he wants, and the rest of us are just happy he's willing to share. I simply expressed my personal disappointment as a severe RSI sufferer, and tried to back it up objectively, because in the past, AcidFire has been very welcoming of feedback.  As a more typical "end user" type, and as a female with RSI injuries, I sometimes offer a different perspective from the more typical "hard core" keyboard hacker/collector/enthusiast with strong "man hands."  Different perspectives are good - they can sometimes provide a more complete picture.     

That doesn't mean I expect him to change anything for little old me (you'll note, I didn't actually ASK him to), nor am I disappointed in HIM, or with the project in general.  I'm just disappointed.  And that's OK.  I've never gotten a pony either, and yet somehow I've survived.  And frankly, the pony thing is a MUCH bigger deal.



All the best, AcidFire!

Kitty made a very good point and to be honest the selection of blues, clears & blacks was based simply on the fact that right now those are the three I'm able to order in small batches. In other words, habit. The minimum numbers for the switches are actually fairly close to each other, and the interesting thing is that blues, reds and browns all come in at roughly the same price.

So I'll correct myself, Blues, Reds and Browns will be the initial offering. There will be a stretch goal for Blacks, Clears, Greens and possibly Greys & Whites if I can get them and if there's enough demand. I will be looking at offering bags of 50 & 100's of switches as pledge rewards to help pad out the switch orders. I do have a minimum number of switches/funding I'd need to meet which will have a count down on the Crowd Supply campaign.

Panda's right too. The more people we can get behind this, the more I can offer with my project, and with making what are normally hard to find switches easier & cheaper for people to get. I'm working on a number of things in the background (on top of final prototype designs) to help with that as well

[jloomb]

^ wahoooo, my day just got better (wants dem browns)

[jdoraemon]

Apologies for a very ignorant question: is is possible (and how hard would it be) to change switches say from brown to blue on the board?

[QuadGMoto]

So I'll correct myself, Blues, Reds and Browns will be the initial offering. There will be a stretch goal for Blacks, Clears, Greens…

Ah, the joys of such a project. When you make one person happy, you disappoint another. 


I'll just have to find a way to ensure that stretch goal is hit. 

[AcidFire]

So I'll correct myself, Blues, Reds and Browns will be the initial offering. There will be a stretch goal for Blacks, Clears, Greens…

Ah, the joys of such a project. When you make one person happy, you disappoint another. 


I'll just have to find a way to ensure that stretch goal is hit. 

Which switch color were you looking for Moto?

[QuadGMoto]

Apologies for a very ignorant question: is is possible (and how hard would it be) to change switches say from brown to blue on the board?

Easiest way: Order it with blues in the first place. 


Cherry MX switches can be opened from the top if the plate they're mounted in has the appropriate cutouts. AcidFire's design does have those cutouts.


Here's a thread showing how to open switches and swap springs out: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44749.0#post_Guide


If you also swap the slider, you wind up with that kind of switch the slider came from. (Replace brown slider with blue, you now have a blue switch.)


Here's a good photo essay on how to make a binder clip tool for opening switches. (If you can read the language, you're better than me.  ) ) http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/tipandtech/3520312


There's also an interest check thread on custom made switch opening tools. Hopefully it'll graduate to a group buy soon! http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54168.0

[QuadGMoto]

Which switch color were you looking for Moto?

Clear

[linziyi]

You can buy clear switches (as well as grey switches which I personally look forward to) from mechanicalkeyboards.com

[AcidFire]

You can buy clear switches (as well as grey switches which I personally look forward to) from mechanicalkeyboards.com

You sir have become my new best friend. The price for 100 lots of switches is better than the quotes I've been getting and I've been looking at 150,000 switch quotes! It's so frustrating I can't deal with Cherry directly, but it looks like I'll have to have a conversation with mechanicalkeyboards.com and see if they'll let me buy in bulk from them.

[OverKill]

**** i figured that was common knowledge. That was the only place i was able to find switches besides digikey.

[QuadGMoto]

**** i figured that was common knowledge. That was the only place i was able to find switches besides digikey.

Mouser also has them. But in quantities of 100, they're still almost twice the price that mechanicalkeyboards is showing.

[AcidFire]

**** i figured that was common knowledge. That was the only place i was able to find switches besides digikey.

Mouser also has them. But in quantities of 100, they're still almost twice the price that mechanicalkeyboards is showing.

Yup. I wish I had know this sooner, could have saved myself a fair bit of cash. I know where I'm ordering from now on (including an order today).

Also, since it was asked and I forgot to answer, I'm still looking at offering ALPs/Matias versions as well once the Cherry MX versions are up and doing well. Because the controller is a daughter board, it's relatively simple to add these options down the road.

[linziyi]

Glad that I can help around 

[xman]

Apologies for a very ignorant question: is is possible (and how hard would it be) to change switches say from brown to blue on the board?

Easiest way: Order it with blues in the first place. 


Cherry MX switches can be opened from the top if the plate they're mounted in has the appropriate cutouts. AcidFire's design does have those cutouts.


Here's a thread showing how to open switches and swap springs out: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44749.0#post_Guide


If you also swap the slider, you wind up with that kind of switch the slider came from. (Replace brown slider with blue, you now have a blue switch.)


Here's a good photo essay on how to make a binder clip tool for opening switches. (If you can read the language, you're better than me.  ) ) http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/tipandtech/3520312


There's also an interest check thread on custom made switch opening tools. Hopefully it'll graduate to a group buy soon! http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54168.0

My understanding is (please correct me if I'm wrong)
that in order to be able to open a switch that way...
the switch must NOT have a built-in-to-the-switch LED.
Is that correct?

[sordna]

Correct. There is a mod where you drill a large enough hole through the switch top for the LED to pass through, but normally you cannot open a switch that has a LED on it.

[AcidFire]

Yes, it's definitely a bit frustrating to try to open them once the LED is in. Of course this can be solved in a couple of ways, both of which unfortunately won't be available to me for a little while yet (unless the campaign goes really well). The first is to offer an evolution of the Cherry MX, a bit like the Mattias is of the ALPS switches and to intergrate things like an open switch top. For those you who I met at the Seattle Mini Maker, I believe I showed most of you the modified clear top which actually allowed me to use a square through hole RGB switch with it. The other option is to get clear switches like the ones in the upcoming Corsair boards and mount the LED directly to the board, but it seems like those won't be available to me to purchase for a while. The current route I'm still exploring is an addon board to sit on top of the plate, which does allow for a greater variety of switches to be used as well as only being an added expense to those that want it. there's also the ease of the install; remove caps, screw down board, replace caps, done. No soldering required. These boards won't be available for the Crowd Supply campaign, but the capacity to add them will be there.

[xman]

It's nice that Cherry MX switches have the option
 -- if certain criteria are met -- of being easily opened,
with no soldering, to have their actuation force changed
(by changing/modifying their springs &/or slider-stems).


There's been some mention of switches other than Cherry MX...

Do any of the other switches have easy (no soldering needed)
adjustable actuation force?  Or is Cherry MX the only one with that?

[Nico_h]

These boards won't be available for the Crowd Supply campaign, but the capacity to add them will be there.

Will the keycaps you offer for the initial sale be compatible with backlighting? (Will material will be glow-through?) If not, do you plan to offer such keycaps for sale later or would you rather just recommend a compatible set from a third party?

[Thimplum]

If you try to please everyone here, you'll end up pleasing no one. The hard part is knowing what well meaning advice to ignore, or at least to give less weight to.

You have your own design in mind, I'd say see that one through, and if enough people demand some changes, then build another model for them.

I told him that in July or August. Not pointing fingers though, haha.

[ryanlee0203]

I can't hardly WAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!

Sir Acidfire, when do u expect the manufacturing day?

I'm ready to assemble any keyboards but still waiting.. 

[yuktsi]

I wonder if you could share with us the cad file at the end of project?

[Scoox]

First post but a long-time lurker. Looking forward to this keyboard!

[smferris]

Also, since it was asked and I forgot to answer, I'm still looking at offering ALPs/Matias versions as well once the Cherry MX versions are up and doing well. Because the controller is a daughter board, it's relatively simple to add these options down the road.

I was hoping to be one of the beta testers so that I could figure out if I liked the board enough to buy 3 more in the Kickstarter, one for each location I use a keyboard.  Now you tease me with Matias switches and make me ponder if I'll be upgrading/replacing them all later if it turns out I like the Matias switches better.  Would it make any sense to try to convert a keyboard from Cherry to Matias or would it be more practical to just replace the whole board and sell off whichever one I liked less?

[indigoglyph]

(Another long-term lurker votes...)

AcidFire, thank you. The decision to make reds/bowns available in the Crowd Supply campaign seals it, for me. As long as the split design is an option, and international shipping is possible, I'll buy.

Of course, if a future version develops scooped keywells, I'll then have to buy one of those as well!

[AcidFire]

It's nice that Cherry MX switches have the option
 -- if certain criteria are met -- of being easily opened,
with no soldering, to have their actuation force changed
(by changing/modifying their springs &/or slider-stems).

There's been some mention of switches other than Cherry MX...

Do any of the other switches have easy (no soldering needed)
adjustable actuation force?  Or is Cherry MX the only one with that?

Technically the Alps/Matias should, since it's basically just a spring swap. How accessible they'll be after being mounted I'm not entirely sure, I'll find out when I can get some ordered.

These boards won't be available for the Crowd Supply campaign, but the capacity to add them will be there.

Will the keycaps you offer for the initial sale be compatible with backlighting? (Will material will be glow-through?) If not, do you plan to offer such keycaps for sale later or would you rather just recommend a compatible set from a third party?

Yes, the base set will be compatible and made from a translucent PC/PBT, even if you don't install or use the backlight.

If you try to please everyone here, you'll end up pleasing no one. The hard part is knowing what well meaning advice to ignore, or at least to give less weight to.
You have your own design in mind, I'd say see that one through, and if enough people demand some changes, then build another model for them.

I told him that in July or August. Not pointing fingers though, haha.

True. On the other side, I've always believed that a project/company/whatever that doesn't involve the people it's meant for is doomed for failure. The iPhone I think is a perfect example. Apple keeps giving people what they think they want, instead of listening and as a result they're losing users to platforms that do, like Android based devices.

I can't hardly WAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!

Sir Acidfire, when do u expect the manufacturing day?

I'm ready to assemble any keyboards but still waiting.. 

Should be coming soon Trust me, no one wants these boards out into the world more than I do. Still aiming to get the Crowd Supply campaign up on May 16th, and the faster we hit the funding goal the sooner I can get them out. Crowd Supply releases the initial funds as soon as the goal is reached, instead of waiting for the end like Kickstarter & Indiegogo.

I wonder if you could share with us the cad file at the end of project?

Yes, once the backer rewards have all been fulfilled the CAD, Altium, and other design files will be shared, as well as the firmware & desktop/mobile config apps.

Also, since it was asked and I forgot to answer, I'm still looking at offering ALPs/Matias versions as well once the Cherry MX versions are up and doing well. Because the controller is a daughter board, it's relatively simple to add these options down the road.

I was hoping to be one of the beta testers so that I could figure out if I liked the board enough to buy 3 more in the Kickstarter, one for each location I use a keyboard.  Now you tease me with Matias switches and make me ponder if I'll be upgrading/replacing them all later if it turns out I like the Matias switches better.  Would it make any sense to try to convert a keyboard from Cherry to Matias or would it be more practical to just replace the whole board and sell off whichever one I liked less?

Looking at the numbers, aside from the shipping it would be cheaper to just swap out the keyset modules. Even cheaper if you sell off the cherry mx modules to another user.

First post but a long-time lurker. Looking forward to this keyboard!

(Another long-term lurker votes...)

AcidFire, thank you. The decision to make reds/bowns available in the Crowd Supply campaign seals it, for me. As long as the split design is an option, and international shipping is possible, I'll buy.

Of course, if a future version develops scooped keywells, I'll then have to buy one of those as well!

Glad to have you both aboard! The split design will be the first on offer for the campaign and yes, international shipping will be offered as well. If you haven't done so already, you can sign up for information & updates from the Crowd Supply campaign at http://www.crowdsupply.com/multiplxd/axios-keyboard.

Also, since I haven't gotten to post much for pretty pictures lately, I added something with the last batch of prototypes that came off the laser:



These will be the last on the list to get the case files done, but if there's enough interest I wouldn't see any problems producing them (the PCB is already done:) ).

[jacobolus]

Do any of the other switches have easy (no soldering needed)
adjustable actuation force?  Or is Cherry MX the only one with that?

Technically the Alps/Matias should, since it's basically just a spring swap. How accessible they'll be after being mounted I'm not entirely sure, I'll find out when I can get some ordered.

Actually Alps switches (and Matias switches) are easier to open up when mounted in a plate than when they’re just loose. Swapping the springs out would be quite straight-forward, but you’d have to have some replacement springs to use, and I’m not sure where those can be found (outside of taking apart old switches).

[kfmfe04]

Looks great - just signed up for the Crowd Source.

BTW, for the split/v-shaped board, is it all one piece?

I'm wondering about tenting (whether it will be possible or included in this version)...  ...thank you for the great work!

[EvillePanda]

I've registered as well. Very excited.

[Scoox]

I am curious as to how it feels using thumb keys as modifier keys. I have been using layers to type symbols and numbers on a regular QWERTY keyboard for many years. Originally I tried using the Alt keys to the sides of the spacebar as modifiers to enable the various layers, but when later I started using a pair of high-quality footswitches to do the job it felt felt a lot more comfortable, although admittedly at the expense of portability. The reason is that, because on a regular keyboard the thumbs are the only fingers that stay put, since their only job is to push the space key, I naturally tend to hinge around the thumbs when reaching for other keys. The minute my thumbs leave their "home" position I lose my bearing and have to fumble around to get back home. This only happens when the thumb operates modifier keys, as it usually means that the entire hand has to move away from the home position. When using the thumb keys as, say, Enter or Backspace, only one key is being pressed at a time, so while the thumb leaves the home position, the other fingers don't, therefore there I can use the other fingers that haven't moved as a reference. I am asking because I see AcidFire is working on several variants of his keyboard with different thumbpad configurations and it would be interesting to know the practical differences between them.

[sordna]

I have used thumb keys for modifiers in a Kinesis advantage keyboard and it worked fine. So it all depends on location. If you tried it on a regular keyboard then I can see how it wouldn't be comfortable.

[kittykatmax]

IMHO thumb modifiers will work best on a keyboard with angled thumb clusters.

[spspencer]

I am curious as to how it feels using thumb keys as modifier keys. I have been using layers to type symbols and numbers on a regular QWERTY keyboard for many years. Originally I tried using the Alt keys to the sides of the spacebar as modifiers to enable the various layers, but when later I started using a pair of high-quality footswitches to do the job it felt felt a lot more comfortable, although admittedly at the expense of portability. The reason is that, because on a regular keyboard the thumbs are the only fingers that stay put, since their only job is to push the space key, I naturally tend to hinge around the thumbs when reaching for other keys. The minute my thumbs leave their "home" position I lose my bearing and have to fumble around to get back home. This only happens when the thumb operates modifier keys, as it usually means that the entire hand has to move away from the home position. When using the thumb keys as, say, Enter or Backspace, only one key is being pressed at a time, so while the thumb leaves the home position, the other fingers don't, therefore there I can use the other fingers that haven't moved as a reference. I am asking because I see AcidFire is working on several variants of his keyboard with different thumbpad configurations and it would be interesting to know the practical differences between them.

I love using thumb modifiers for my egrodox. I have painful wrists, so I try to move my hand and fingers as little as possible. I only use half of the available finger keys on the egrodox. I touch qwerty, but am trying out Dvorak. Here is my current layout: https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=SPAJZH&hash=c9749fde145f902c34b84a3c76bfb0dd it only took a little while to get used to the mod layer. For example, tab is on a thumb shift layer, but typed with the same finger. The only difference being I don't have to stretch for it, (it's typed thumb layer "a"). Granted, it is terrible for games with a lot of key binds (I'm looking at you WoW) but works great for general typing. I also use SA profile keycaps to give the ergodox a bit of bowl shape. I'll attach a photo to demonstrate. The reduced key set + the shaped keys feels wonderful for me.

What I'm looking forward to in AcidFire's offerings is the tented thumb clusters. Even better would be one of the mini boards with tented thumb clusters. I took a lump of clay and made the ideal keyboard for me. Granted it is far from being an actual keyboard, but it does contain the most available keys for minimal finger movement (once again "for me" probably not for anyone else). I'll also include a picture of it. The keycaps don't mean anything, the green dots are the home row.

[Scoox]

Cool, I guess I've never had proper thumb keys, plus my set-up was not very ergonomic to begin with, being a regular qwertboard.

[spspencer]

Cool, I guess I've never had proper thumb keys, plus my set-up was not very ergonomic to begin with, being a regular qwertboard.

yeah, I don't think it would work on a regular board. On my regular boards, the thumbs are for space or an occasion the control key.

[xman]

Hi AcidFire,

You said:
I want to make sure I'm clear about it, the flat straight/ergo split designs currently don't include space for F keys, only the split tent (I really need proper names for these designs) have the extra space for dedicated keys. Otherwise, there are enough keys in the middle of the flat designs to actually set them as dedicated F keys. If I do a dedicated desktop version (remember these designs were intended more for travel) I will include these F rows as dedicated keys.


For clarity please explain what you meant when you said:
"extra space for dedicated keys"

Does that mean there is extra space, but no actual F keys?
Or does that mean the extra space will have actual F keys?


Also for clarity it would help to see a drawing or a
picture of "the split tent" and "the flat designs".

Thanks!

[tups]

xman, I think this refers to an add-on module (similar to the thumb clusters being separate modules). AcidFire mentioned that the boards will support quite a few simultaneous modules and IIRC the F-keys won't be included in the base version but as an add-on.

[daerid]

Hooray for the mailing list! I don't check this thread nearly enough

[davkol]

Awesome! I wonder why I haven't checked in earlier, although I know about the project more or less since its beginning... I especially wish I had signed up for the beta.

About the switches. If I understand it correctly, backlighting will be optional. If it's so, it shouldn't be a problem to open switches, as long as there's a phantom-style plate. Then, fewer kinds of Cherry MX would be a complete non-issue, because a pair of tweezers and a bag of Korean springs would completely solve it.

I'm kinda confused, what the name of the keyboard is currently. It appears Google have burried the Nexus brand, but so did you. The name is Axios now, isn't it? And what's ErgoGP? Is it the split keyboard (as opposed to 70% and 40%), or is it depricated as well?

I see that the keyboard is modular. Have you considered palm-button modules like some users have added to their kinesis?

Another thought... What about PBT SA keycaps? Unfortunately, I haven't seen them anywhere but SP's inventory and well... the price w/ shipping to Central Europe was quite steep.

Anyway, back to work, so that I can afford this. Maybe I'll even give up on getting the czarek's planned ErgoDox-compatible wireless keyboard.

[spspencer]

woah. that is beautiful. the curves and legs remind me of a grand piano.

I'm starting to think I'm going to have to do a mixed white&black keyset lol. I also updated the thread title, considering now that you guys have said it all I can see when I look at it is grand piano 

Also, while these are a bit big, I'm sure I could find similar to look like piano legs heh:
http://www.mbs-standoffs.com/Aluminum-Standoffs-Diameter-12-Standoff-12-Aluminum-Black-Anodized-Finish_p_3001.html

ErgoGP = Ergodox Grand Piano

...and it just grew from there!

[technomancy]

IMHO thumb modifiers will work best on a keyboard with angled thumb clusters.

Thumb modifiers are just about the best thing ever, especially for Emacs users. They're great with separate thumb clusters, but I have a bunch of thumb modifiers (1x and 1.5x) on my custom 40% just along the bottom row and that works great too.

[yakitysax]

IMHO thumb modifiers will work best on a keyboard with angled thumb clusters.

Thumb modifiers are just about the best thing ever, especially for Emacs users. They're great with separate thumb clusters, but I have a bunch of thumb modifiers (1x and 1.5x) on my custom 40% just along the bottom row and that works great too.

If you look at some of the older keyboard designs designed for using at a UNIX workstation, they had the design of symmetric modifiers along the bottom row instead of an obscenely idiotic monster space bar.

[AcidFire]

Hi AcidFire,

You said:
I want to make sure I'm clear about it, the flat straight/ergo split designs currently don't include space for F keys, only the split tent (I really need proper names for these designs) have the extra space for dedicated keys. Otherwise, there are enough keys in the middle of the flat designs to actually set them as dedicated F keys. If I do a dedicated desktop version (remember these designs were intended more for travel) I will include these F rows as dedicated keys.


For clarity please explain what you meant when you said:
"extra space for dedicated keys"

Does that mean there is extra space, but no actual F keys?
Or does that mean the extra space will have actual F keys?


Also for clarity it would help to see a drawing or a
picture of "the split tent" and "the flat designs".

Thanks!

xman, I think this refers to an add-on module (similar to the thumb clusters being separate modules). AcidFire mentioned that the boards will support quite a few simultaneous modules and IIRC the F-keys won't be included in the base version but as an add-on.

What that means is that the base design, while having an area you can add F-keys to, will not include them in the base kit. The addon modules however are designed to be a simple plug in and go, they were simply omitted from the base kit for cost reasons. I am however thinking of including them with the kit in the crowd supply campaign as a bonus.

As for a drawing, I should hopefully have some new photos done this weekend in anticipation of the Crowd Supply campaign.

Awesome! I wonder why I haven't checked in earlier, although I know about the project more or less since its beginning... I especially wish I had signed up for the beta.

About the switches. If I understand it correctly, backlighting will be optional. If it's so, it shouldn't be a problem to open switches, as long as there's a phantom-style plate. Then, fewer kinds of Cherry MX would be a complete non-issue, because a pair of tweezers and a bag of Korean springs would completely solve it.

I'm kinda confused, what the name of the keyboard is currently. It appears Google have burried the Nexus brand, but so did you. The name is Axios now, isn't it? And what's ErgoGP? Is it the split keyboard (as opposed to 70% and 40%), or is it depricated as well?

I see that the keyboard is modular. Have you considered palm-button modules like some users have added to their kinesis?

Another thought... What about PBT SA keycaps? Unfortunately, I haven't seen them anywhere but SP's inventory and well... the price w/ shipping to Central Europe was quite steep.

Anyway, back to work, so that I can afford this. Maybe I'll even give up on getting the czarek's planned ErgoDox-compatible wireless keyboard.

Yes, backlighting will be optional, so someone who hasn't installed LEDs should have no problem opening switches in the plate. There is however some stuff I'm working on the switch side that is completely hush hush, but very promising Unfortunately thats all i can say for now until the crowd supply campaign.

Because of the nature of the palm rests I haven't looked at palm switches yet, however because of the nature of the modularity and the break outs available on the board its always a possibility. At this point I don't want to let feature creep slow me down but it's on the list of things to investigate after the first models are available.

As for the SA profile, I have a set of translucent PC keys coming in from SP today so I can try out the profile. Unfortunately compared to DSA/DCS there's a fairly low demand for it so I'm not sure when I'd actually end up offering it. That being said, as with most things I won't rule out the possibility of offering them in the future, it all comes down to numbers.

I am curious as to how it feels using thumb keys as modifier keys. I have been using layers to type symbols and numbers on a regular QWERTY keyboard for many years. Originally I tried using the Alt keys to the sides of the spacebar as modifiers to enable the various layers, but when later I started using a pair of high-quality footswitches to do the job it felt felt a lot more comfortable, although admittedly at the expense of portability. The reason is that, because on a regular keyboard the thumbs are the only fingers that stay put, since their only job is to push the space key, I naturally tend to hinge around the thumbs when reaching for other keys. The minute my thumbs leave their "home" position I lose my bearing and have to fumble around to get back home. This only happens when the thumb operates modifier keys, as it usually means that the entire hand has to move away from the home position. When using the thumb keys as, say, Enter or Backspace, only one key is being pressed at a time, so while the thumb leaves the home position, the other fingers don't, therefore there I can use the other fingers that haven't moved as a reference. I am asking because I see AcidFire is working on several variants of his keyboard with different thumbpad configurations and it would be interesting to know the practical differences between them.

I love using thumb modifiers for my egrodox. I have painful wrists, so I try to move my hand and fingers as little as possible. I only use half of the available finger keys on the egrodox. I touch qwerty, but am trying out Dvorak. Here is my current layout: https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?referer=SPAJZH&hash=c9749fde145f902c34b84a3c76bfb0dd it only took a little while to get used to the mod layer. For example, tab is on a thumb shift layer, but typed with the same finger. The only difference being I don't have to stretch for it, (it's typed thumb layer "a"). Granted, it is terrible for games with a lot of key binds (I'm looking at you WoW) but works great for general typing. I also use SA profile keycaps to give the ergodox a bit of bowl shape. I'll attach a photo to demonstrate. The reduced key set + the shaped keys feels wonderful for me.

What I'm looking forward to in AcidFire's offerings is the tented thumb clusters. Even better would be one of the mini boards with tented thumb clusters. I took a lump of clay and made the ideal keyboard for me. Granted it is far from being an actual keyboard, but it does contain the most available keys for minimal finger movement (once again "for me" probably not for anyone else). I'll also include a picture of it. The keycaps don't mean anything, the green dots are the home row.

I've been looking at a tented version with the smaller clusters as well, and I even have daughter boards done for testing, however for the time being they've been tabled until the first designs are ready to go out (I like your layout btw).

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As for an overdue update, I've had my Crowd Supply budget, reward levels & stretch goals approved, so the only thing left for prep is to provide a writeup, a video and some photos. If I get very lucky, I might be able to get this all done in time to launch for the Bay Area Maker Faire. If that isn't the case, it'll go up shortly after. I hope to see those of you in San Francisco down there

[davkol]

As for the SA profile, I have a set of translucent PC keys coming in from SP today so I can try out the profile. Unfortunately compared to DSA/DCS there's a fairly low demand for it so I'm not sure when I'd actually end up offering it. That being said, as with most things I won't rule out the possibility of offering them in the future, it all comes down to numbers.

Round 5 and some other group buys feature this kind of keycaps, but usually not in PBT. They should be thicker (good thing), taller (matter of personal preference) and spherical (IMHO good thing). Moreover, they don't fit on MX stems (especially MX Clear) nearly as tightly as DSA; there's a quite big risk of unintentional opening or even damaging switches when removing DSA keycaps.

[James35]

At one point in this thread you mentioned a 4x5 project that you were thinking about. Sounds like that could make an outstanding numeric keypad.  Is that still something you might do in the future?