Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 1238153 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2000 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 12:51:41 »
bunch of random keys. is it possible to burn the PCB?

I would suggest taking a high-res picture, marking which keys don't work, and uploading it so we can all take a look.
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2001 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:16:17 »
thanks guys.



Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2002 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:23:22 »
From what I can see I think some of your diodes are backwards. There is a tiny grey line down the diode. I should be closest to the square pad with the hole in it because diodes do have direction to them.

You also might want to turn down the heat on your soldering iron or use a smaller tip cause you do have some scorching. I was using 600F on my Hako FX-888D but bumped it down to 580F and it helped some with the scorching.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:26:33 by r3dx »
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2003 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:26:46 »
From what I can see I think some of your diodes are backwards. There is a tiny grey line down the diode. I should be closest to the square pad with the hole in it because diodes do have direction to them.

thanks! you are a life saver! i can see my mistakes now

Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2004 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:31:07 »
Yup, any time! Honestly, that's one part of Mass Drop's instructions they would make clearer with high-res, close-up pictures. They do mention it in the instructions but sometimes it's easy to miss stuff like that.
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2005 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:34:32 »
You're also flooding the pads with too much solder. A small dab would be sufficient to hold the smd in place. Throughhole has a larger margin of error, so your switches are probably fine, but even then, that's still too much solder imo.

Alot of the diodes in the places where the keys aren't working also have the diodes more off-center, mostly too much to the left, according to the picture. Not sure if that's an issue, but it did account for about 3-5 of my bad joints.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2006 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:35:51 »
Yup, any time! Honestly, that's one part of Mass Drop's instructions they would make clearer with high-res, close-up pictures. They do mention it in the instructions but sometimes it's easy to miss stuff like that.

yea. thanks a lot. can't thank you enough. i was so frustrated with it just now.

I thought that instructions was for the through-hole since i can visibly see the line. Didn't realize there was a line on the surface mount until u pointed it out.

Offline Glod

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Also Known As Ergonomech
    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2007 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:39:54 »
id follow these guys tips on soldering as well

maybe you are using too large a tip like a screwdriver tip? a pointy conical one worked better for me

one of the nice things about this PCB(s) is that it is very high quality, some other boards like the Costar ones are not as forgiving with mistakes as this one as i have learned the hard way. I have a rosewill that is pretty must screwed unless i do some funky stuff with the traces and i am almost certain it was because of big mistakes i made. better that board than this one

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2008 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:43:49 »
You're also flooding the pads with too much solder. A small dab would be sufficient to hold the smd in place. Throughhole has a larger margin of error, so your switches are probably fine, but even then, that's still too much solder imo.

Alot of the diodes in the places where the keys aren't working also have the diodes more off-center, mostly too much to the left, according to the picture. Not sure if that's an issue, but it did account for about 3-5 of my bad joints.

what is the down side of applying too much solder?

Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2009 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:48:17 »
You're also flooding the pads with too much solder. A small dab would be sufficient to hold the smd in place. Throughhole has a larger margin of error, so your switches are probably fine, but even then, that's still too much solder imo.

Alot of the diodes in the places where the keys aren't working also have the diodes more off-center, mostly too much to the left, according to the picture. Not sure if that's an issue, but it did account for about 3-5 of my bad joints.

what is the down side of applying too much solder?

You might accidentally short something out, but it's usually easy to fix and hard to find. I'd be worried about burning the board too much, but like Glod said, this board is fairly forgiving. Once you fix the diodes and test it. If you still have problems, you might want to remove some of the extra solder from some of those diodes.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:54:16 by r3dx »
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 624
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2010 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 13:55:15 »
its not an issue until the solder flows over to another pad. as long as the connection is made, its fine. like I said, there's a sizeable margin of error for this, but since you're doing it, might as well learn how to do it properly.

I figured I'll point it out since you're going to have to redo a good amount of SMDs anyway. There's a pretty good chance the leads (the metal tips at the sides of the smd diodes) have been melted off quite a bit during your first attempt, and would be harder to reuse, though it's possible. Happened for mine.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Online Findecanor

  • Posts: 5035
  • Location: Koriko
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2011 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 14:12:34 »
The problem anyway is that the thumbcluster altogether is further away than needed, especially felt on the Enter and Delete keys, not so much the Space and Backspace.
Yes, but we can't do anything about that without building a new keyboard with a new PCB, plate and case. I am trying to find ideas for salvaging what we have paid for by moving the symbolic keys one step outwards. Abandon the outermost thumbkey and promote the key below M to being a thumbkey.

In the case of my idea with the Space Bar below M, yes the Space bar is a bit too big and needs to be stabilised, but I think that the plate could be modified to allow stabilisers. Not that easy, but possible.

In the case of my Space Bar cut at an angle, I see now that I had put it one step too high up. If it would be moved down a step, then it would be shorter and not less stable than a 1.5 unit key.

Actually , the ErgoDox has the same distance between the innermost home-row keys and the thumb keys as the Kinesis and the Key64. What sets apart ErgoDox from the other keyboards with columnar layout is that the column offsets are quite small in comparison. Most other flat columnar keyboards have more column offset than the ErgoDox.
I think that if the column offsets had been larger then the hands would be rotated more outwards and the problem with reaching the thumb keys would not be so large.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 April 2013, 14:17:32 by Findecanor »

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2012 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 14:29:47 »
Thanks Glod and r3dx.

Yea i thought about applying a bit more soldering to make sure the connection is made. Guess I should not do that.

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2013 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 01:36:30 »
i think one of the metal thing came off... is there any way to remedy this?


Offline AloisiusFauxly

  • Posts: 32
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2014 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 04:03:37 »
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.


Offline Gupgup

  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 584
  • Location: South Dakota, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2015 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 05:01:40 »
What is the easiest way to get the brown paper off the acrylic full hand case? I don't want to scratch it :/


Gupgup

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2016 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 06:13:24 »
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.

Show Image


it worked like a charm! thanks. I felt like i was doing an artery bypass surgery just now. hahah

Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2017 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 12:04:34 »
What is the easiest way to get the brown paper off the acrylic full hand case? I don't want to scratch it :/


Gupgup

Yeah, it just pulls off clean. I'd keep a cloth or rag around cause acrylic picks up dust and oil easy.
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2018 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 12:05:45 »
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.

Show Image


it worked like a charm! thanks. I felt like i was doing an artery bypass surgery just now. hahah

seferphier, where you able to get yours working properly?
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 155
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2019 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 13:03:59 »
Yeah that looks like a pad came loose. Fortunately this board uses through-hole plating, so as long as you get a solder or a small wire connection between the diode and the hole next to the pad it should be fine.

Show Image


it worked like a charm! thanks. I felt like i was doing an artery bypass surgery just now. hahah

seferphier, where you able to get yours working properly?

yup. it works now.

Offline Glod

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Also Known As Ergonomech
    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2020 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:08:37 »
congrats

welcome to the club!


Offline WhiteFireDragon

  • Posts: 2276
    • youtube
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2021 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:32:56 »
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.

  • You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
  • Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
  • You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
  • Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
  • Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:37:31 by WhiteFireDragon »

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2022 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:39:53 »
The solder pads for the SMD diodes are so tiny, the diode legs cover them completely. So, wouldn't it be better to put solder on both pads (not just one) before soldering the diode on this particular PCB ?
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:41:49 by sordna »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Gupgup

  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 584
  • Location: South Dakota, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2023 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:49:54 »
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.

  • You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
  • Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
  • You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
  • Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
  • Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible

Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?

It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?


Gupgup

Offline WhiteFireDragon

  • Posts: 2276
    • youtube
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2024 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:50:37 »
The solder pads for the SMD diodes are so tiny, the diode legs cover them completely. So, wouldn't it be better to put solder on both pads (not just one) before soldering the diode on this particular PCB ?

You could do that, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you have hot air and can melt both pads at the same time. If you pre-tin both pads but only reflow one at a time, either the diode won't be completely flush to the pad or PCB, or the first diode leg that you soldered will bend and you're stressing the solder joint and leg.

If tinning both pads work for you, then I'm not going to make a big stink about it, but I personally don't do it this way.

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2025 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:53:58 »
You are right. But if you reflow the first leg you did after you do the second, won't it alleviate any stress issues?
Hmm, I just wish the solder pads where a bit bigger on this PCB... I'm not sure how will the solder can flow under the diode leg if you cannot even see the solder pad because it's so tiny. On your video, the pad is wider that the diode leg and it's no issue.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Glod

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Also Known As Ergonomech
    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2026 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:55:18 »
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.

  • You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
  • Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
  • You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
  • Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
  • Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible


Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?

It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?


Gupgup

the line would face the square part of the through hole diode area which surrounds the smd area



edit: lol you can see in some areas i apply a bit more solder than i should have, i actually don't remember making that mistake, but i guess it was forgiving to me thankfully
« Last Edit: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:57:33 by Glod »

Offline Gupgup

  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 584
  • Location: South Dakota, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2027 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 14:57:09 »
I got a few PMs regarding SMD soldering, so I made a video for SMD diodes. It's not specifically on the ergo dox, but the same thing should apply. Jump to where it's relevant (at 3:14). Here are a few quick tips.

  • You'd want to use solder wire in size 0.015" or 0.020" max, anything larger than that will be hard to control the amount you apply, and you'll almost always put too much solder. If you're good, you can get away with 0.032"
  • Diodes always have polarity. The side with the line is the negative side. Make sure you get the orientation correct, otherwise they do not work.
  • You need to put solder paste on one pad first, touch one diode leg on it and reflow. This holds the diode on so you can do the other leg.
  • Also, these are small parts and do not have a high heat capacity. Don't turn up your iron temperature too high or leave it on there too long, otherwise you'll fry the pads, legs, or the diode. These are not switch pins, so you don't need much heat to melt the solder.
  • Do not put a lot of pressure on the legs or pads with the iron tip. Do it as light as you can, just barely touching. This prevents you from scraping the pad/traces off or breaking the diode legs. High temps will make this even more susceptible

Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?

It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?


Gupgup

the line would face the square part of the through hole diode area which surrounds the smd area

Show Image


Ahhhhh hahahaha I thought they meant the little solder pads, not the diode solder pads :p

Thanks!


Gupgup

Offline WhiteFireDragon

  • Posts: 2276
    • youtube
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2028 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 15:08:39 »

Sorry if this was said, how do you determine the right way the diode goes on the PCB for the ErgoDox?

It says Note the Cathode of the diode (denoted with a line) connects to the square pad on the PCB. It looks to me like they both are square pads?

The through-hole diode pad is either square or round. Negative side is square, so have the line towards the square through-hole pads.


You are right. But if you reflow the first leg you did after you do the second, won't it alleviate any stress issues?
Hmm, I just wish the solder pads where a bit bigger on this PCB... I'm not sure how will the solder can flow under the diode leg if you cannot even see the solder pad because it's so tiny. On your video, the pad is wider that the diode leg and it's no issue.

If you reflow the first leg... the second time, then at that point the legs are already slightly bent. That also more steps than if you were to just tin 1 pad first.

Yeah the pads I soldered on a different PCB were a tad larger, but ergo dox has plenty of room to solder the legs on the pads. It just requires small solder wire size, fine iron tip, and a semi-steady hands.

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2029 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 15:48:47 »
Ok, thanks for your expert advise here, as always, WFD.  Your videos are extremely helpful too!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline rknize

  • * Administrator
  • Posts: 1731
  • Location: Chicago
    • metaruss
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2030 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 16:23:37 »
Done...finally.  Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case.  It is a royal PITA.  The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful.  There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case.  A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work.  Not perfect, but tolerable at least.




It's loaded up with lubed browns and the "qwerty-kinesis-mod" layout to start.  Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.
Russ

Offline Glod

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Also Known As Ergonomech
    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2031 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 16:53:06 »
Done...finally.  Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case.  It is a royal PITA.  The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful.  There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case.  A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work.  Not perfect, but tolerable at least.

It's loaded up with lubed browns and the "qwerty-kinesis-mod" layout to start.  Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.

Bravo dude for going through all that trouble to make the layers look decent. you did a hell of a job! the way the screws are not protruding out and the way you polished it makes it look less like a "prototype" and just all around appealing

give matrix layout a few days and you will get used to it, and don't forget the massdrop layout configure tool.


Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2032 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 17:30:21 »
Haha, I hit my high end WPM (~ 100 using dvorak) right away, despite using blanks for the first time. But that's because of years on the Kinesis Advantage!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline r3dx

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: Virginia, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2033 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 17:47:58 »
Looking good rknize! Takes some true dedication to go full aluminum.  :D The polished look looks good too. I'm hoping that I'll be able to anodize mine eventually.
Filco MJ2 Ninja | CM Storm QFR | CM Storm QFR | IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | ErgoDox |
LZ-GH

Offline Gupgup

  • * Vendor
  • Posts: 584
  • Location: South Dakota, US
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2034 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 18:03:44 »
Another quick question!

In step 5, here, it says jump wire and short the two sets of connections with white outline. Can you just take a wire clipping from one of the resistors and solder them in there? Or am I missing something :/

Thanks :D


Gupgup

Offline Glod

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Also Known As Ergonomech
    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2035 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 18:16:19 »
Another quick question!

In step 5, here, it says jump wire and short the two sets of connections with white outline. Can you just take a wire clipping from one of the resistors and solder them in there? Or am I missing something :/

Thanks :D


Gupgup

that's what i did


Offline WhiteFireDragon

  • Posts: 2276
    • youtube
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2036 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 19:10:53 »
Done...finally.  Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case.  It is a royal PITA.  The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful.  There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case.  A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work.  Not perfect, but tolerable at least.

It could have turned out good. I guess it really depends on which laser cutter they sourced. Some machines have really bad tolerances. Here is an example of a really terrible one:

http://imgur.com/ysADbOY


Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 165
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2037 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 20:30:15 »
Well, my "prototype" (non-aluminum tester) board is finally done:
18648-0

Technically it was done earlier, but thanks to my decision to go back and clean up some flux, things got just a hair complicated. I wasn't really thinking when I did it, and the cleaner managed to make it's way through to the other side of the PCB and under the acrylic plate causing streaking that's impossible to remove without removing every switch. It also managed to make it's way into the switches themselves causing them to no longer click (blues), and to stick. A few hours of alcohol and PTFE dry lube later, the switches are back to 90% of their original state. Good enough until I replace them with something else (Turns out I don't really care for blues all that much. Curse the general shortage of browns!)

As for the streaking? I made lemonade with those lemons. Taking it as the perfect opportunity to test out the plans my sister has for hers when it's made, I went and got some paper that pretty much perfectly matches the keycaps. After a bit of precise cutting, I end up with a result that's really quite nice.
18650-1
A note to anybody planning on doing something similar: leave nothing hanging on the inside. Not even half a hair's width. The tolerances of Litster's case design are too tight for any margin of error.

Beyond that, I went and added some feet to it to give it a bit of an inverse tilt. but that's all subject to change while I figure out what's best.

Now for things I'm not exactly crazy about:
  • Some of the PBT keycaps are ridiculously tight. They're so tight they have ripped multiple switches in half while attempting to pull them off the stem. I've added lube on them this time around, but only time will tell if that helped.
  • Litster's case design doesn't have quite enough play around the edges. I can't even get my key puller in where keys meet the case. This wouldn't be too bad if the above issue didn't exist, but still isn't ideal either way.
  • The DSA keycaps don't have any homerow centering keys. I'm used to the Kinesis, so this layout isn't exactly hard for me, but I manage to misplace my hands enough without those wonderful homerow keys of the Kinesis.

More random photos here.

Offline wolfv

  • Posts: 269
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2038 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 20:58:01 »
Is there a schematic of the ErgoDox wiring?
I want to make my own case and solder diodes directly to the switches as lowpoly did on his M0110 mod: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0
I just need a schematic so I know how the electronic parts go together.

Thank you.

BTW the pictures of the finished ErgoDox keyboards look great.

Offline Glod

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: Virginia, USA
  • Also Known As Ergonomech
    • YouTube Channel
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2039 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 21:10:44 »
Zalusithix it Looks fantastic!

Is there a schematic of the ErgoDox wiring?
I want to make my own case and solder diodes directly to the switches as lowpoly did on his M0110 mod: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0
I just need a schematic so I know how the electronic parts go together.

Thank you.

BTW the pictures of the finished ErgoDox keyboards look great.

The gerber files are available at http://www.ergodox.org/Downloads.aspx


Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2040 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 21:18:41 »
    • The DSA keycaps don't have any homerow centering keys. I'm used to the Kinesis, so this layout isn't exactly hard for me, but I manage to misplace my hands enough without those wonderful homerow keys of the Kinesis.

    More random photos here.

    Nice pics. Put your Kinesis keycaps on the Ergodox, and the DSA on the Kinesis, you might like it! I put Kinesis keycaps on the Ergodox and while it's a big improvement, I still have some trouble positioning my hands without looking. I should probably create nubs with superglue on F and J.
    Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
    Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

    Offline Larken

    • Posts: 624
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2041 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 21:50:47 »
    Done...finally.  Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case.  It is a royal PITA.  The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful.  There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case.  A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work.  Not perfect, but tolerable at least.

    Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.


    That looks great man. I wouldn't have had the patience or skills to do what you've done with it. An idea to get help with the acclimatization - forget the dsa blank caps for now. When I got mine done at first, I threw on the blanks for an hour before I realized how hard it was to remember a non-standard layout, and I had been typing on blanks on my filco for the last 2 years. Throw on a set of labelled caps for at least the alphanumeric keys and swap them around until you figure out the layout you want (fyi, I'm on my 30th version of my layout before I figured out how I wanted it).  This way, you can look at the keys when you need to until muscle memory kicks in, which is a few days at least.

    @Zalusithix - that looks great. I did the same with mine, though I left the top cover alone. It does take extremely precise cutting of the paper with a xacto. Kudos on the lemonade making.
    | Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


    Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

    Offline mikelanding

    • Posts: 84
    • Location: Thailand
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2042 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 22:42:09 »
    Done...finally.  Massdrop is making the right move by dropping the aluminum case.  It is a royal PITA.  The finish is rough, to say the least, and the fitment is awful.  There is a lot of error in the cuts, so the PCB wouldn't even fit into the case.  A lot of grinding, milling, drilling, filing, and polishing, I finally got it to work.  Not perfect, but tolerable at least.

    Between the matrix layout and blank keys, typing is a huge challenge.


    That looks great man. I wouldn't have had the patience or skills to do what you've done with it. An idea to get help with the acclimatization - forget the dsa blank caps for now. When I got mine done at first, I threw on the blanks for an hour before I realized how hard it was to remember a non-standard layout, and I had been typing on blanks on my filco for the last 2 years. Throw on a set of labelled caps for at least the alphanumeric keys and swap them around until you figure out the layout you want (fyi, I'm on my 30th version of my layout before I figured out how I wanted it).  This way, you can look at the keys when you need to until muscle memory kicks in, which is a few days at least.

    @Zalusithix - that looks great. I did the same with mine, though I left the top cover alone. It does take extremely precise cutting of the paper with a xacto. Kudos on the lemonade making.

    The memory muscle are incredible, I had to spend couple hours to get back to my normal typing speed and accuracy when I change my Kinesis keycaps to Massdrop's DSA keyboard. I kept the Kinesis home row key unchange because it help me kept my finger at home rows without looking. Like below picture

    My keycap on my Kinesis are mix and match from 3 types. Kineisis single shot (Black Lable), Kinesis doubleshow (Home row) and Massdrop's DSA.


    I havent got my Ergodox yet, they are still assemble by someone. When I got it, I will use the same keycap setup and Layout as my current Kinesis. Hope it will help to reduce the adaptation time. :)
    HHKB Type-S | Kinesis Advantage | Maltron 3D 2Hand | Ergodox (62g ErgoClear)

    Offline rknize

    • * Administrator
    • Posts: 1731
    • Location: Chicago
      • metaruss
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2043 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 23:41:58 »
    It could have turned out good. I guess it really depends on which laser cutter they sourced. Some machines have really bad tolerances. Here is an example of a really terrible one:

    http://imgur.com/ysADbOY

    Haha...wow.  That one was definitely not setup right.  For the Ergodox, it seems like the cutter just didn't have enough oomph to cut cleanly through the thick plates.  The cuts are not square, maybe because the aluminum dissipated the heat too quickly.  I haven't heard any of the acrylic case owners complaining, so clearly the machine is accurate.

    That said, there is so reason for the inside case to be so tight against the PCB.  Litster's previous designs needed a snug fit on the sides since the PCB/plate assembly simply rest inside the case.  Ergodox mounts the switches right into the case.  Some play around the PCB is not only fine, but desirable.  That close up shot is on its best side and the camera made it look a bit better than it is.  :)  You can still see laser damage in some areas that I didn't machine down far enough and my polishing work was somewhat rushed.

    As far as typing on it, yeah I need to put legends on it.  I bought a DSA Retro for this thing for that reason.  I also have horrible typing technique.  I use most of my fingers, but my hands fly all over the place.  Part of the reason I bought this thing is to force me to learn to type properly.  The blank keys are helpful that way, but man it is tiring.
    Russ

    Offline ic07

    • Posts: 190
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2044 on: Sat, 13 April 2013, 23:56:48 »
    I hope it's not a n00b suggestion.. But my dad helped me drill a hole in one of my 1.5x caps, for the capslock LED to shine through. I was worried about how it'd feel to type on, but now that I've had it for a day or so, I'm thinking smaller holes might be good substitutes for home row index finger nubs. I'll have to try it later.

    Offline Gupgup

    • * Vendor
    • Posts: 584
    • Location: South Dakota, US
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2045 on: Sun, 14 April 2013, 00:49:16 »
    Scratch that question, I just fixed it.

    Now onto another question... this says:

    Drag and drop the '.eep' file onto the Teensy loader window.

    The information bar at the bottom of the window should now read "firmware.eep" followed by the percentage of the Teensy memory that will be used by this file.
    Press and release the Teensy reset button (a.k.a. the "tiny pushbutton").

    Where do you drop the .eep file? I am taking the firmware.eep file and placing it over the teensy program launcher, but it isn't able to place it there and it doesn't show up as the current file on my teensy?

    Thanks
    « Last Edit: Sun, 14 April 2013, 01:00:14 by Gupgup »

    Offline sordna

    • Posts: 2248
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2046 on: Sun, 14 April 2013, 01:18:34 »
    .eep didn't work for me either, so I skipped it entirely, and the keyboard worked anyway. It's just a tiny file containing this:  :00000001FF
    Are you trying to load it with linux, windows, or mac ?  I only tried on linux, but the teensy program won't recognize it, so I'm wondering if it's a windows-only thing...
    Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
    Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

    Offline Gupgup

    • * Vendor
    • Posts: 584
    • Location: South Dakota, US
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2047 on: Sun, 14 April 2013, 01:55:10 »
    .eep didn't work for me either, so I skipped it entirely, and the keyboard worked anyway. It's just a tiny file containing this:  :00000001FF
    Are you trying to load it with linux, windows, or mac ?  I only tried on linux, but the teensy program won't recognize it, so I'm wondering if it's a windows-only thing...

    I did it on windows 7, but the problem was that I didn't extract the files first :p

    On another note, I now have the right hand working (most keys except the right side) and the left hand is completely not working :/

    Anyone have tips?


    Gupgup

    Offline sordna

    • Posts: 2248
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2048 on: Sun, 14 April 2013, 02:00:17 »
    Are you using switches with integrated diodes? If so, you need to change some options in the firmware.
    Otherwise, I suspect you may have gotten the jumpers wrong? Please post photos of both the top and bottom of your left PCB.
    Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
    Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

    Offline Gupgup

    • * Vendor
    • Posts: 584
    • Location: South Dakota, US
    Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
    « Reply #2049 on: Sun, 14 April 2013, 02:03:59 »
    Are you using switches with integrated diodes? If so, you need to change some options in the firmware.
    Otherwise, I suspect you may have gotten the jumpers wrong? Please post photos of both the top and bottom of your left PCB.

    I'm using clears, let me take some pics then edit this post with them!

    And you wanted photos of my left PCB? Here you are.


    Gupgup
    « Last Edit: Sun, 14 April 2013, 02:09:15 by Gupgup »