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geekhack Marketplace => Group Buys and Preorders => Topic started by: jwaz on Sun, 27 November 2011, 12:15:21

Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sun, 27 November 2011, 12:15:21
Want replica doubleshot Dolch keycaps with accurate legends?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33487[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33488[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]33489[/ATTACH]

*Pics stolen from Deskthority...

UPDATE: This has mostly become a project to recreate the iconic vintage cherry legends and use it to create a set of key caps with the Dolch color scheme that would also be available to future GH groupbuys.

As it stands here is the original font (courtesy of Sixty)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37367[/ATTACH]
and here is the current iteration of SVGs for a recreation of the legend (courtesy of Hazeluff)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37368[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Minskleip on Sun, 27 November 2011, 12:30:11
R4.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sun, 27 November 2011, 17:30:39
Different font than what's included in the group buy I believe...

So to be more specific, this GB would be for replica double shot Dolch key caps.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 27 November 2011, 18:02:27
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;459750
Different font than what's included in the group buy I believe...

So to be more specific, this GB would be for replica double shot Dolch key caps.

R4 has the R3 set available which has Dolch-like coloring along with old-school centered big-ass legends. What are your plans legend-wise?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Sun, 27 November 2011, 18:09:55
Not R3. Ugly.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 28 November 2011, 18:49:58
Ripster: I'm dead set on recreating these Dolch caps and though I am a newer member and have never done a group buy I feel fairly confident as long as there is enough interest and someone can help me iron out logistics.

Hashbaz: The reason I posted this interest check as opposed to joining R4/ R3 is because I don't want the oversized font but the upper left smaller (less obnoxious d: ) font.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 28 November 2011, 18:53:23
Well then I'm interested if we can make it economical.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Brendan on Mon, 28 November 2011, 20:48:51
^Ditto, R4 pricepoint was I believe $60-ish for a TKL set of R3 caps, Whiterice's earlier GB was priced at $40, I say stick to the $40 pricepoint. DS or no?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jpm804 on Mon, 28 November 2011, 21:16:35
interested also to just get the keycaps to finish off my incomplete Dolch set.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: kaiserreich on Mon, 28 November 2011, 21:28:01
Is this going to be like R4 Retro kit, or the font will replicate that of the original DOLCH keyboard as well?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Mon, 28 November 2011, 21:28:19
My dolch set is crumbling. DS with cherry corp font on correct position and dark gray almost black contrasting modifiers, and fkeys true to the real deal plz ;)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 28 November 2011, 21:37:55
Replicating the Dolch/Cherry font will cost $35+ per key in new legend fees I'm afraid.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: whiskerBox on Mon, 28 November 2011, 21:45:24
I would be interested if this group buy is conducted independently of Round 4 (i.e. sooner delivery time)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: kaiserreich on Mon, 28 November 2011, 22:12:56
Quote from: hashbaz;460392
Replicating the Dolch/Cherry font will cost $35+ per key in new legend fees I'm afraid.

If the legends are numerous enough, you can get it at $10 per key. Volume discount
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 28 November 2011, 22:30:24
Rly?  So that's something like $1000 for all 104 keys (the moogle legends and Escape have already been done).

We'd still need 100 people to make that kind of cost bearable per person.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 28 November 2011, 23:49:53
$1040/50 = $20.80+ set cost isn't so bad, probably come to $90 a set

a tenkeyless set you would only need 87 legends and per set is

25 sets          $73.01 / set
50 sets          $52.42 / set
75 sets          $45.56 / set
100 sets        $42.13 / set

with the legend fee you're looking at $70 a set at 50 sets not including shipping from SP to distributor and then to you, probably $10 more

I did my homework for a group buy wanted to do, but dunno if I can attract 50 people as I don't think people would like the 25 set pricing
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 28 November 2011, 23:53:27
I guess there were plenty of people willing to shell out $90 or whatever for keyboardlover's blue PBT set.  It could happen.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 28 November 2011, 23:56:15
He had a hard time getting 25 sets lol
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 28 November 2011, 23:58:25
Don't forget the huge amount of work it would take to hand-craft the Cherry font in SVG form.

edit: I'm not trying to be a naysayer, I would love for this to happen.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Atenacius on Tue, 29 November 2011, 00:32:16
Aw man, we just keep getting more and more Cherry font goodness. I'm really interested in this but the price is rather steep
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: whiskerBox on Tue, 29 November 2011, 00:34:12
That is a lot of obstacles to overcome, but with the popularity of this set I think it has a better chance of getting completed then \KL's set originally had and he was successful in getting enough people. although I know one person did buy multiple sets to get the order going.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 29 November 2011, 00:37:24
Quote from: tsangan;460463
He had a hard time getting 25 sets lol


lol indeed lol
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 29 November 2011, 00:56:11
I am doing this independently of round 4 and it looks like this will work as long as we can get enought people... Should I post at OCN and Deskthority? If I can get 50 people would somebody be willing to help me with the SVGs and such?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 29 November 2011, 19:16:59
Quote from: hashbaz;460462
I guess there were plenty of people willing to shell out $90 or whatever for keyboardlover's blue PBT set.  It could happen.

The only reason I got that set was because it's PBT. Given the number of people who don't "need" a 100% dolch reproduction, compared with, say, the relatively large number of alternatives for good-looking grey keycaps, I don't think this'll work out well.

Although, if we can get SP to make up molds for the cherry font, it'd make later group buys better off.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: whiskerBox on Tue, 29 November 2011, 20:00:03
well what font is the green and cheese group buy going to use? I think they are getting a special cherry font or something so maybe we could join the two group buys
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 29 November 2011, 20:08:07
I'm down with that if it makes this cheaper and doesn't compromise the quality (I don't see how it would)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 29 November 2011, 20:12:09
Hazeluff has also pointed out previous discussions on Deskthority about this and that there are very similar fonts to the cherry corp style...
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=873


edit: not that we shouldn't do it if it means we can use the font in the future!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 29 November 2011, 20:19:43
Quote from: whiskerBox;461021
well what font is the green and cheese group buy going to use? I think they are getting a special cherry font or something so maybe we could join the two group buys


I'm not sure what his current plans are, but the font tsangan was going to try to replicate is different than the Cherry font.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: whiskerBox on Tue, 29 November 2011, 20:24:33
Quote from: hashbaz;461034
I'm not sure what his current plans are, but the font tsangan was going to try to replicate is different than the Cherry font.


I wasn't sure what font he was going for so I guess that idea is out the window
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: nolliepoper on Wed, 07 December 2011, 09:14:13
This is relevant to my interests.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: reaper on Wed, 07 December 2011, 09:18:09
I'm in for at least 1 set if we can get it before R4.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Wed, 07 December 2011, 10:19:44
No cherry font, no interest. That's the whole point in doing these reps. If you want a half-assed replica, go to R4 and get the R3 set.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: DanGWanG on Wed, 07 December 2011, 14:43:47
I'm interested.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Tennobanzai on Wed, 07 December 2011, 16:27:01
Interested
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 12 December 2011, 17:28:28
Calling signature plastics to get some details figured out.

Edit:

So the legend fee is pretty steep but worth it as future group buys could use it (R5 :clap2:).

If anyone has info or Hi-Res pictures of the font PM me so I can get the SVGs made.


If someone knows anyone who has already done the Cherry Corp legend and feels like letting us use their proprietary SP tooling then awesome! (long shot as that is the issue to begin with...)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: rightbraingeek on Mon, 19 December 2011, 15:14:14
In for 2 sets w/RGB - tried to create this combo in GB4 and scaled back when the price hit $315!  Hoping this would arrive sooner and cheaper.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 20 December 2011, 19:06:24
Still need good quality pictures with the legends next to some kind of scale/ ruler. I don't own any OG cherry doubleshots... and the Dolch options on ebay are outrageous...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jpm804 on Wed, 21 December 2011, 00:34:34
I will see if I can snap some pics but I dont have a very good macro lens.... not sure when I can do this but I will see what I can do.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mehkat1974 on Tue, 27 December 2011, 02:01:17
Is this a set exactly the same as the one in the first pic of the OP? If so, very interested
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 27 December 2011, 09:51:14
Quote from: mehkat1974;478249
Is this a set exactly the same as the one in the first pic of the OP? If so, very interested

Not exactly, It will be a very close replica.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 27 December 2011, 11:56:49
would love to see this actually happen, but it doesn't look like it will, unless I missed something.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 27 December 2011, 12:59:02
Quote from: litster;478427
would love to see this actually happen, but it doesn't look like it will, unless I missed something.

I believe he's still looking for close-up image and/or image with a scale next to it, so he can produce the images for this.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mehkat1974 on Tue, 27 December 2011, 14:18:48
Quote from: hazeluff;478337
Not exactly, It will be a very close replica.

cool, very close is close enough for me.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 27 December 2011, 16:38:04
Still watching ebay for a Dolch keyboard so I can have something to compare to replicas and take pics of or even send to hazeluff who's making the SVGs
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 27 December 2011, 17:10:16
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;474786
Still need good quality pictures with the legends next to some kind of scale/ ruler. I don't own any OG cherry doubleshots... and the Dolch options on ebay are outrageous...
Older Cherry keyboards with cream/grey lasered PBT keys also have the same font ... sort of. The legends on the double-shot moulded keys are slightly fatter, but that difference might be negligible.
Another problem is that Cherry's alignment when lasering these keys was not too precise at the beginning. Thin PBT keys are OK, but early thick PBT keys can be all over the place. (I don't know about dye-sublimated as I don't have any)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 27 December 2011, 20:29:48
Why not solicit close-up photos from Dolch-owning geekhackers?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:28:25
Dolch are exactly the same as regular Cherry double shots, except the colors.  So actually the last Moogle kit SVGs would work perfectly for this Dolch project.  But it might just be too costly to fab every single key.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:31:47
Any two-toned Cherry double-shot or lasered should do.  Dolch caps are the same as other Cherry double-shots, only in another colour scheme.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:32:28
Quote from: litster;478723
Dolch are exactly the same as regular Cherry double shots, except the colors.  So actually the last Moogle kit SVGs would work perfectly for this Dolch project.  But it might just be too costly to fab every single key.

It will be VERY expensive, people would be better off just buying a legit set then getting a moogle kit :P
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: didjamatic on Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:39:58
Can you get thick walled caps made of ABS or are you just trying to replicate the colors?  

Also, you should be specific that you're referring to Dolch PAC 60-64 and not the earlier Dolch which had Cherry Blue MX but pad printed caps with Army green modifiers... or the later PAC65 which was a rubber dome.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36050[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36051[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36052[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Findecanor on Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:47:43
Would the keys in this hypothetical Moogle Kit be able to have the same profile as Cherry row B keys?
I thought that Signature Plastic's DCS row 4 keys were angled too much.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:10:45
Quote from: tsangan;478728
It will be VERY expensive, people would be better off just buying a legit set then getting a moogle kit :P

Isn't the moogle kit just the ctrl/alt/shift/enter/etc?

Cos the main problem (not just with this buy) is that SP does not have the Cherry Font so we can make Cherry Fonted keycaps.

Quote from: Findecanor;478736
Would the keys in this hypothetical Moogle Kit be able to have the same profile as Cherry row B keys?I thought that Signature Plastic's DCS row 4 keys were angled too much.

I'd think they didn't have the mold for that?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:12:22
Quote from: didjamatic;478732
Can you get thick walled caps made of ABS or are you just trying to replicate the colors?  

Also, you should be specific that you're referring to Dolch PAC 60-64 and not the earlier Dolch which had Cherry Blue MX but pad printed caps with Army green modifiers... or the later PAC65 which was a rubber dome.

(Attachment) 36050[/ATTACH]
(Attachment) 36051[/ATTACH]
(Attachment) 36052[/ATTACH]

Nice photos, got any of perfect top down shot/more zoomed in? It would help bucketloads.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:13:37
Quote from: Findecanor;478736
Would the keys in this hypothetical Moogle Kit be able to have the same profile as Cherry row B keys?
I thought that Signature Plastic's DCS row 4 keys were angled too much.

They would be standard SP DCS profile, just like every other group buy.  I think I remember reading that it's possible to have SP make new key molds to fit the profile exactly, but that of course means thousands of dollars in setup fees.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: demik on Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:20:12
wow those orange on black mods are awesome.

i need a dolch set :(
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 27 December 2011, 23:23:27
Wait wait...Why has this not occurred to us before. Guys, I just need photos of the font. Anyone with keycaps with authentic original Cherry font will do for photos (at least for now). I'm not sure about the lettering/symbols on keys such as shift. But if someone can take photos of any keyboard/keycaps with the Cherry Font (no knockoffs) that should be just as good.

/facepalm

TLDR; Photos of Cherry Fonted Keycaps are just as good as pictures of Dolch keycaps. At least for now.

Edited x100: cos I can't english at 5:30am...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 00:08:56
Quote from: hazeluff;478746
Isn't the moogle kit just the ctrl/alt/shift/enter/etc?

Yes it is, but to go a set of 87 keys (minus all the ones we've done in the past which is ctrl, alt, shift, window, menu and esc) that leaves 77 keys left at a minimum and legend fees you're looking at a minimum $10 per key on these so that's $770 in legend fees.

Which will bring the set price to pretty high we're talking $90~$100 per set at 50 set mark. Then you gotta ask yourself why not get the official set then just grab moogle kit to finish it off?

I'm just being slightly realistic, I don't want to see ALL the work done in the SVG to have not enough orders because it's too expensive

I mean lots of people will benefit from this afterwards but who will plunge down first and pay the steep cost.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 00:37:11
To make the initial cost easier to justify, we could do non-standard colors, like maybe the space cadet theme or the green and cream theme.  Personally I don't really care whether my key caps are vintage or authentic per se.  I just really like the thick clean retro look of the Cherry font.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 00:43:18
Quote from: hashbaz;478797
To make the initial cost easier to justify, we could do non-standard colors, like maybe the space cadet theme or the green and cream theme.  Personally I don't really care whether my key caps are vintage or authentic per se.  I just really like the thick clean retro look of the Cherry font.

+1 on this one, if the theme was different I can justify the cost.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 09:37:17
Quote from: tsangan;478803
+1 on this one, if the theme was different I can justify the cost.

Well I'm investing my time into the SVG so that this or future group buys can have a better font. We'll never have this font if we don't start somewhere.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: telepete on Wed, 28 December 2011, 11:44:47
I think this would be sweet. Friggin' old school. If it were to happen, I'd be in for a set.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 12:02:39
I don't think people are taking into account the cost of this project that is all, if half of the people say they would be in for a set AFTER seeing the price I would be surprised.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 12:46:25
Quote from: tsangan;479012
I don't think people are taking into account the cost of this project that is all, if half of the people say they would be in for a set AFTER seeing the price I would be surprised.

If we use the same legending for different colors, does SP still charge legending fees for the different colored sets?
If we can get this to like 50+ sets over a couple of sets, maybe it won't be too bad. (still not cheap, but not expensive).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 13:02:15
Quote from: hazeluff;479031
If we use the same legending for different colors, does SP still charge legending fees for the different colored sets?
If we can get this to like 50+ sets over a couple of sets, maybe it won't be too bad. (still not cheap, but not expensive).
No they don't charge the legend fees again, but your price tier for the sets won't go anywhere, which is even less viable since anything under 25 sets is expensive.

After looking at pricing some more, with 77 legends, if we get 50 sets ordered that could be viable I calculated a tad high before you're looking at the $80 ranged with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping (Let me do remind you how hard it was for \KL to do his GB for his PBT set and it was close to this price range)

Anything under the 50 set mark is too expensive, it will be around $115 range with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping.

And I really doubt we can do 2-3 different colour scheme and still reach 50+ sets each colour. It's better off doing one colour and concentrating the numbers.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 14:10:40
Quote from: tsangan;479050
No they don't charge the legend fees again, but your price tier for the sets won't go anywhere, which is even less viable since anything under 25 sets is expensive.

After looking at pricing some more, with 77 legends, if we get 50 sets ordered that could be viable I calculated a tad high before you're looking at the $80 ranged with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping (Let me do remind you how hard it was for \KL to do his GB for his PBT set and it was close to this price range)

Anything under the 50 set mark is too expensive, it will be around $115 range with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping.

And I really doubt we can do 2-3 different colour scheme and still reach 50+ sets each colour. It's better off doing one colour and concentrating the numbers.

Well thats not too bad. My thoughts with other colors sets is to share the legending fee over more sets. Obviously if we can't even hit 25, its gonna be terribad.

Imo, if OP is willing to do an extra set, it could possibly be we get 50 sets each on 2 styles? This would just make the legending fee nothing. It is a load more for him to do tho, as well as we have no idea if we can get to 50 sets.

Just my thoughts.

Realistically aiming for 50 sets of this might be best.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: REVENGE on Wed, 28 December 2011, 14:57:17
FYI, if you are able to duplicate vintage Cherry legends more accurately than what the current / previous group buys have accomplished, you'll have bucketloads of orders.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:01:24
Well, the second round of the $20 black 2-shot buy has been open for weeks and has just 15 or so orders.  I wonder if geekhack is saturated with Cherry keys?  I'm sure there's plenty of demand for another moogle kit round, but I don't know about this one.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:05:37
Quote from: hashbaz;479129
Well, the second round of the $20 black 2-shot buy has been open for weeks and has just 15 or so orders.  I wonder if geekhack is saturated with Cherry keys?  I'm sure there's plenty of demand for another moogle kit round, but I don't know about this one.

Ascii + Quarzac‎ + random sales there is A LOT of Cherry DS around here, I have like 6 sets of beige DS but I need more moogle kits! Like you said I'm sure there's plenty of demand for moogle kits but paying $80~$120 for a replica set I dunno.

If we do a moogle kit this time lets do ALL the modifiers, backspace, enter, capslock, tab, both shift, alt, ctrl this way even if they don't match 100% which I doubt it ever will it will at least match all the modifiers and not look weird ie different font from the capslock then the shift underneath it :P
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:10:42
Yeah, I have three or four unused black sets sitting in baggies awaiting keyboards.  You bought six sets from Ascaii? :O

I would probably be up for an übermoogle kit that included a bunch of extra keys, if we could get enough people on board to make it not cost $50+.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:13:13
Quote from: hashbaz;479138
Yeah, I have three or four unused black sets sitting in baggies awaiting keyboards.  You bought six sets from Ascaii? :O

I would probably be up for an übermoogle kit that included a bunch of extra keys, if we could get enough people on board to make it not cost $50+.
I would definitely be in for both colours for sure, I'm sure a lot of people would be in too to be honest, that different font on the caps and shift is killing me, also the different texture on the enter and right shift key kills me too :P

lol you have enough cherry keys to last you for awhile :P
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: bavman on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:14:15
Quote from: hashbaz;479138
Yeah, I have three or four unused black sets sitting in baggies awaiting keyboards.  You bought six sets from Ascaii? :O

I would probably be up for an übermoogle kit that included a bunch of extra keys, if we could get enough people on board to make it not cost $50+.

I'll help you take one of those moogle kits of your hands in your feeling generous enough to sell it :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:23:04
Quote from: bavman;479140
I'll help you take one of those moogle kits of your hands in your feeling generous enough to sell it :)

Oh, I meant I have three or four sets of black Cherry keys, not moogle kits. :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:26:45
lol see, once you bring up moogle kits someone wants to buy it :rofl:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: bavman on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:30:17
Quote from: tsangan;479147
lol see, once you bring up moogle kits someone wants to buy it :rofl:

What moogle kit? Ill take it
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:46:52
IMO, there maybe more demand if we could make an uber moogle kit with *different* colors, so we can match it with genuine Cherry white/beige and black double shots.  See my example below.  it has Dolch alpha-numeric keys and black cherry modifiers + black moogle kit.  It is not a perfect example, but a perfect example would be this example in reverse:  Common white/beige or black alpha-numeric DS caps + a set of uber moogle kit that gives you a unique color combo that you can't find anywhere.

Once the modifiers (include Backspaces, Tab, Capslock, shifts, Ctrls, Alts, Win, App, + 6-pack and arrows) SVGs are done, it may be easier to then do the rest of the caps later.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35471&d=1324350578)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:55:38
Quote from: litster;479165
IMO, there maybe more demand if we could make an uber moogle kit with *different* colors, so we can match it with genuine Cherry white/beige and black double shots.  See my example below.  it has Dolch alpha-numeric keys and black cherry modifiers + black moogle kit.  It is not a perfect example, but a perfect example would be this example in reverse:  Common white/beige or black alpha-numeric DS caps + a set of uber moogle kit that gives you a unique color combo that you can't find anywhere.

Once the modifiers (include Backspaces, Tab, Capslock, shifts, Ctrls, Alts, Win, App, + 6-pack and arrows) SVGs are done, it may be easier to then do the rest of the caps later.

Missing quite a bit from those, that's like 9 legends to go through, but the idea is pretty nice and I'm sure lots of people would be interested too

Once again it will be expensive for the first run, then afterwards any colour combo would be a lot easier to do as the cost would be drastically lower given that none of the SVGs will be to be redone
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:09:03
I like it.  Doing full-modifier moogle kits in various colors (over time) that go well with the standard white and black Cherry sets is a great idea.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:24:59
Quote from: REVENGE;479126
FYI, if you are able to duplicate vintage Cherry legends more accurately than what the current / previous group buys have accomplished, you'll have bucketloads of orders.

Yeah, we're going for that. Starting to make the SVGs after I eat dinner.

Also Moogle kits in various colors seem like a good idea.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:35:10
I'm pretty sure cycloverid re-did them for the the RGBY kit already
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:38:39
Quote from: tsangan;479189
I'm pretty sure cycloverid re-did them for the the RGBY kit already

Thats a RGBY kit. I'm refering to a whole keyboard.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: whiskerBox on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:40:59
Quote from: hazeluff;479194
Thats a RGBY kit. I'm refering to a whole keyboard.


Well that is great:thumb: you are doing quite a nice service for the community!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:50:33
Quote from: whiskerBox;479197
Well that is great:thumb: you are doing quite a nice service for the community!

Zzzzzzz watch tv and do it at the same time. Multitasking ftw.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:53:52
I would recommend pinging cycloverid to get his input/tips if you haven't already.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 28 December 2011, 17:52:16
Oh, I forgot to include F5 to F8.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 28 December 2011, 17:53:06
Quote from: litster;479255
Oh, I forgot to include F5 to F8.

hazeluff is doing all 87 keys :roll:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 28 December 2011, 17:55:42
That's cool.  For the uber moogle kit in different colors, F5 to F8 should be included.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jinhan108 on Wed, 28 December 2011, 18:12:57
Would definitely be interested in this!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 18:19:16
I got sidetracked by a mate. I made 1 key in like 5/10 minutes, then started playing SC2. hur hur...><
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 20:46:26
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36122[/ATTACH]

Smecksy Me Thinks.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 21:04:32
Those look really nice.  Are you constructing the letters from outlines, or is that just how you rendered them for the image?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 21:47:07
Quote from: hashbaz;479358
Those look really nice.  Are you constructing the letters from outlines, or is that just how you rendered them for the image?

I'm constructing SVGs of the letters using some photos I've gathered.
I'm basically tracing them and then checking straightness/symetry/metrics and correcting after that. The letters are then aligned onto my template (that has the keycap too = p).
The proper SVG is the total "Printable" area on a keycap for doubleshots and will also be adjusted for the little bit extra the cutter takes off. The keycap's border just lets me/you see how close to the borders we can align things.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:27:29
What I'm asking is are you outlining the letters in the SVG?  Cycloverid's legends are just lines; their internal area comes entirely from the cutter.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:46:38
Quote from: hashbaz;479386
What I'm asking is are you outlining the letters in the SVG?  Cycloverid's legends are just lines; their internal area comes entirely from the cutter.

Its an outline and not just a line. Thus giving it the correct thickness in the correct places.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:51:09
Quote from: hazeluff;479391
Its an outline and not just a line. Thus giving it the correct thickness in the correct places.

Ok, there may be cutter issues with that.  Tell me to shut up if you've already looked into all this in detail, but if not check with Melissa and/or cycloverid before you do a ton of work.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:55:34
Quote from: hashbaz;479393
Ok, there may be cutter issues with that.  Tell me to shut up if you've already looked into all this in detail, but if not check with Melissa and/or cycloverid before you do a ton of work.

Are you talking about how the cutter has width and cuts out more of the image and makes it bigger? I've got that sorted.

I've talked to Melissa once about making SVGs and I seem to have a good grip on it and how the whole manufacturing part works with the "cutter" (drill). Should be ok. I can't imagine something devastating going wrong; as for small problems I'll be ironing out when they come.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:09:45
That's what I had in mind, but I'm not totally sure exactly what what the issues might be.  What I know is that cycloverid did his legends the way he did for a reason and has gone back and forth through a lot of iterations with Melissa on getting his legends to look right.  Also, Melissa was concerned about cutter width issues with his Esc SVG on my group buy.  So take all that for what it's worth and I'll stop pestering you about it. :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:20:35
I'll give him a PM and ask him myself. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Findecanor on Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:46:10
Quote from: hazeluff;479349
(Attachment) 36122[/ATTACH]

Smecksy Me Thinks.
Some of those letters look just a little bit too tick. There should be more grey in the triangle inside the 'A', for instance. On the 'E', the spacing between the top and middle bar should be smaller than the spacing between the middle and bottom.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:48:14
Anway just fired the PM to cloverid.

Looked through the IC where he brought up the problems. The only one he said was using a line instead of like a block area for the text. I've mentioned that in the PM, but does anyone know why he was forced to do that? Because I don't see why we can't treat each keycap like like the custom novelty keycaps and just use the same type of SVG (areas of the image and not just a line).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:53:09
Quote from: Findecanor;479405
Some of those letters look just a little bit too tick. There should be more grey in the triangle inside the 'A', for instance. On the 'E', the spacing between the top and middle bar should be smaller than the spacing between the middle and bottom.

Noted.

Its just working off images I have no idea how the font "really" looks. The E's problem is just probably just cos of the angled pictures I traced = x.

Edit: Also - Silly me did something stupid and misaligned the bottom of the letters.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Fri, 30 December 2011, 16:07:28
Damn Hazeluff you're putting in mad work (nice sig)! Thank you so much!

Like you said someone has to take the plunge and I'm hoping we can reduce the costs to make this economical and possible for people to use in future group buys.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 30 December 2011, 16:42:16
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;480545
Damn Hazeluff you're putting in mad work (nice sig)! Thank you so much!

Like you said someone has to take the plunge and I'm hoping we can reduce the costs to make this economical and possible for people to use in future group buys.

Continuing work now. Can you check with Melissa about using SVGs that are of the "area" to be cut out. and not just a center line? Center line won't cut it cos the width is varied in the font.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 30 December 2011, 22:17:22
Progress:

Guys let me know if something seems wrong.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36304[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 30 December 2011, 22:30:01
Quote from: hazeluff;480781
Progress:

Guys let me know if something seems wrong.

(Attachment) 36304[/ATTACH]

The shapes look fantastic.  They all seem to be a bit too thick though?  F looks a bit squished vertically.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 30 December 2011, 22:34:12
Quote from: hashbaz;480787
The shapes look fantastic.  They all seem to be a bit too thick though?  F looks a bit squished vertically.

I worked off this photo:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36310[/ATTACH]
 
In comparison I think W,E,F,N,M actually look too thick (you can see it in the corners). The others to me look as thick as it does in the photo. I think tho it might be because of how pixels are rendered. DPI/resolution is a bit low and I think some of the pixels rendered made it thicker, cos on my design (not exported) it looks ok.

Here's a larger resolution:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36309[/ATTACH]

Imo they look less "thick"/"chubby" when You look at it zoomed in. Tho I think W, O and M are actually a bit thick. I'll prob touch those ones up, but i don't know about the others. I need more feedback.

Note: I used consistent thickness for lines that I know are the same. (e.g The Vertical line of 'L' is the same thickness as the vertical line of 'M')

EDIT: Touched up W,O and M. (Quite subtle on W and M)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36311[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 30 December 2011, 23:21:15
Huh, interesting.  The legends in your reference image definitely look chubbier than the Cherry 2-shots I'm typing on right now.  I thought Dolch caps were the same, but maybe not...  Experts, what say ye?

On the other hand, it could be the fact that the image is slightly blurry when viewed close up.  My own close-up shots of Cherry keys also look chubby:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36316[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36317[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Fri, 30 December 2011, 23:28:00
I took that picture with the crappy iphone4 camera.  I could take the picture again with my 5D MkII later.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 30 December 2011, 23:29:34
Quote from: hashbaz;480799
Huh, interesting.  The legends in your reference image definitely look chubbier than the Cherry 2-shots I'm typing on right now.  I thought Dolch caps were the same, but maybe not...  Experts, what say ye?

On the other hand, it could be the fact that the image is slightly blurry when viewed close up.  My own close-up shots of Cherry keys also look chubby:

(Attachment) 36316[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 36317[/ATTACH]

Your close-ups aren't blurry, The edges seem quite well defined and yeah it looks a bit chubby (i.e similar to the photo I've been working off of). It might be a matter of perspective. If it's actually thinner when you look at it in real life and a few people agree I'll go back and change them. For now I'll leave it.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 30 December 2011, 23:32:29
Quote from: hazeluff;480803
Your close-ups aren't blurry, The edges seem quite well defined and yeah it looks a chubby (i.e similar to the photo I've been working off of). It might be a matter of perspective. If it's actually thinner when you look at it in real life and a few people agree I'll go back and change them. For now I'll leave it.

If the images don't look blurry ... you need to go deeper.  The lines aren't crisp when viewed at full-resolution (not zoomed).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 30 December 2011, 23:39:12
Quote from: hashbaz;480804
If the images don't look blurry ... you need to go deeper.  The lines aren't crisp when viewed at full-resolution (not zoomed).

Fairly clean.
 
Anyway, time for a break.

Please other people let me know if it looks "too thick". I'm siding with it probably is, I just want some more people to make sure.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Forin on Sat, 31 December 2011, 06:00:56
I'm interested in Dolch color scheme (grey) keycaps.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 31 December 2011, 12:48:00
Someone posted a classified with amazing photo of a cherry keyboard:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25555-NIB-Cherry-G80-2551HAD-with-beautiful-doubleshots

Totally illustrates how my lettering is too thick. Will go and work on that sometime.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sat, 31 December 2011, 13:24:46
Guess they take Fridays off, I just left her a message...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 31 December 2011, 13:50:27
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;481043
Guess they take Fridays off, I just left here a message...

SP has been off since the 23rd I think.  But yeah, they do take Fridays off normally as well.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: DraJin on Sun, 01 January 2012, 06:09:19
I'm interested.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sun, 01 January 2012, 20:30:02
Ok redid the images. They are thinner now.

First try:
 [ATTACH=CONFIG]36437[/ATTACH]

Newest try:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36438[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Sun, 01 January 2012, 20:42:51
Thin is in!  Nice!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: DaemonRaccoon on Sun, 01 January 2012, 20:44:52
The thin looks wonky, the R and P are too narrow, I'd change the width of the lines instead, while keeping the overall character width intact.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sun, 01 January 2012, 20:47:47
Quote from: DaemonRaccoon;481650
The thin looks wonky, the R and P are too narrow, I'd change the width of the lines instead, well keeping the overall character width intact.

By the way that is what I did...(Obv the overall character width gets shorter if I decrease the widths on line.)

Edit: Maybe I should of compensated for that...
How does this look?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]36443[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Sun, 01 January 2012, 22:25:16
Those look fantastic.  Your SVGs have already kept their New Year's resolution to shed the chub.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: DaemonRaccoon on Sun, 01 January 2012, 22:27:45
Quote from: hazeluff;481652
By the way that is what I did...(Obv the overall character width gets shorter if I decrease the widths on line.)

Edit: Maybe I should of compensated for that...
How does this look?
(Attachment) 36443[/ATTACH]

That looks much better.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sun, 01 January 2012, 22:32:53
Quote from: DaemonRaccoon;481688
That looks much better.

Aweshum!
 
I'll get on with the rest of the keys later = p. (not looking forward to writing "Page up" and "Page Down"...).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jpm804 on Mon, 02 January 2012, 01:57:49
Quote from: hazeluff;481652
By the way that is what I did...(Obv the overall character width gets shorter if I decrease the widths on line.)

Edit: Maybe I should of compensated for that...
How does this look?
(Attachment) 36443[/ATTACH]


Looks good to me... :thumb:

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc467/jpm804/Keyboard%20Stuff/DPP_0141.jpg)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mehkat1974 on Mon, 02 January 2012, 03:07:25
oh jpm you got the red one, cant believe I missed that group buy lol
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: aoya on Fri, 06 January 2012, 21:16:54
Sorry if this has already been answered, but how close is this to coming to fruition?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Fri, 06 January 2012, 23:12:09
Hazleluff is working on the legends for the keys. When I have an estimate on the price per kit I'll post it in the OP and tally up the names and see if it is doable for a somewhat reasonable price.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 06 January 2012, 23:46:02
Hazle: Did Melissa and/or cycloverid get back to you about the path vs. area SVG approach?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jellowiggler on Sat, 07 January 2012, 00:18:45
Interested.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 07 January 2012, 02:04:50
Quote from: hashbaz;485169
Hazle: Did Melissa and/or cycloverid get back to you about the path vs. area SVG approach?

Cycloverid never got back to me. And I asked OP to ask melissa since hes in charge of this buy. = / Also want to check with OP if we're remaking the Moogle kit parts as well (They look close, and I don't think I can make it any better (The lines are thin)).

(I gotta take a break from making the SVGs, I've got 2 courswork due next friday)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sat, 07 January 2012, 02:36:57
will post tomorrow morning with her response.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 07 January 2012, 02:47:00
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;485224
will post tomorrow morning with her response.

Cheers~
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: laikaislost on Sat, 07 January 2012, 03:39:32
Those look awesome Hazeluff!  Is the 'M' thicker than the rest though?  

If the price ends up remotely reasonable, count me in for a set.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 07 January 2012, 03:42:10
Quote from: laikaislost;485249
Those look awesome Hazeluff!  Is the 'M' thicker than the rest though?  

If the price ends up remotely reasonable, count me in for a set.

Good catch. I had made it thinner before I redid all the other keys. Will fix it on my end (won't be posting up a update till I finish a nother bunch of keys).

Thanks
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sat, 07 January 2012, 15:11:06
Edit: Deskthority post:

http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1785
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 07 January 2012, 16:27:09
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;485483
Would you mind if I posted it at Deskthority? Those guys might have some good insight.

I don't know why you need to ask.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: trax on Sat, 07 January 2012, 18:38:33
Yes
For ALPS to please.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sun, 08 January 2012, 22:34:17
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37039[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]37040[/ATTACH]

Here's a good comparison
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: suprsmo on Mon, 09 January 2012, 04:21:38
I'd be keen for a set :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 09 January 2012, 07:50:35
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;486404
(Attachment) 37039[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 37040[/ATTACH]

Here's a good comparison

Beautiful Photo.

I've noticed that:
 
-The arch in the A is too high
-The Leg of K is no far out enough
-Quotation marks are too thick
-slash needs to be slightly more angled(?)
-Question mark is too thick
- signs are too thick
-Comma needs a slighly longer thingy ( I have no idea what that bit is called? a tail?)

Did you scan the keyboard, cos it certainly looks like it >< cos thats perfect cos we don't get parallax error.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Mon, 09 January 2012, 13:59:40
Quote from: Oqsy;459763
Not R3. Ugly.


What did R3 look like?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 09 January 2012, 14:15:32
Quote from: Reptile;486728
What did R3 look like?


(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20012&d=1309707367)

I like the big, centered font, but the all-capital, bizarrely variable-width modifiers and such look bad.  Look at Control and Backspace.  wtf?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Mon, 09 January 2012, 15:50:55
I still don't understand why it is so hard to get replica cherry font/symbols. I believe sixty on deskthority said he even had the real font but cannot share?

This bugs and baffles me at the same time lol
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 09 January 2012, 15:58:05
I saw that post by Sixty as well and am not sure what he meant. Perhaps some sort of copyright issue?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 09 January 2012, 16:02:51
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;486823
I saw that post by Sixty as well and am not sure what he meant. Perhaps some sort of copyright issue?

Most Likely.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 09 January 2012, 16:11:58
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;486823
I saw that post by Sixty as well and am not sure what he meant. Perhaps some sort of copyright issue?


*sigh*

We should start a poll to convince Cherry to sell us new 2-shot sets (with center-stemmed modifiers and capslock of course).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Mon, 09 January 2012, 17:48:36
I understand copyright issues but cmon no one has sourced it? Even if you changed one small thing you could get past that :evil:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 09 January 2012, 22:36:41
Quote from: Reptile;486894
I understand copyright issues but cmon no one has sourced it? Even if you changed one small thing you could get past that :evil:

Maybe, technically.  You have to convince SP though. : /
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 10 January 2012, 08:27:26
Anyway,

OP (I call him OP cos I can't remember his name correctly) has spoken with Melissa about making the font. Unfortunately it has to be a centerline for the font (i.e. Single thickness for the font). This means we won't get as much detail (and I have to "redraw" them).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 10 January 2012, 08:28:23
Quote from: hashbaz;487034
Maybe, technically.  You have to convince SP though. : /
What font is it, commercial licenses aren't usually that expensive...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 10 January 2012, 11:31:09
It's a custom font, owned by Cherry.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 10 January 2012, 11:33:17
Quote from: hazeluff;487225
Unfortunately it has to be a centerline for the font (i.e. Single thickness for the font). This means we won't get as much detail (and I have to "redraw" them).


Do we know why your original approach won't work?

cycloverid's moogle legends have two different cutter widths.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 10 January 2012, 15:38:33
Quote from: hashbaz;487365
Do we know why your original approach won't work?

cycloverid's moogle legends have two different cutter widths.

Does it? Is it 2 widths on the same key? Because in my mind that seems very complex.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 10 January 2012, 22:25:25
Quote from: hazeluff;487480
Does it? Is it 2 widths on the same key? Because in my mind that seems very complex.


Yup, 2 widths on the same key, connected even.  Check out the cross on the Ts and Fs on cycloverid's moogle kit.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37228[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 10 January 2012, 23:39:31
Well awesome then! I don't know why I can't work this stuff out with Melissa very easily...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 11 January 2012, 07:57:46
Can you ask how centerlines for multiple widths work. By that i mean like = how do i indicate which line is what width and i also need to know what widths they have available (I'd like to know so I can render samples of how they would look).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mehkat1974 on Wed, 11 January 2012, 19:23:03
Keep up the good work mate, I am so excited about this I can't sleep. It's really fun following your progress!
White filco arrived today :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 11 January 2012, 20:10:49
Quote from: mehkat1974;488270
Keep up the good work mate, I am so excited about this I can't sleep. It's really fun following your progress!
White filco arrived today :)

This might take a while, but we're moving that way.



Does cloverid/anyone have the moogle SVGs? I'd like to see them and maybe reuse parts of it if possible...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 11 January 2012, 21:44:28
Quote from: hazeluff;488294
This might take a while, but we're moving that way.

Does cloverid/anyone have the moogle SVGs? I'd like to see them and maybe reuse parts of it if possible...

I can hook you up with the ones from my RGBY group buy (Esc, Ctrl, Alt, and Shift).  They are quite a bit better than the ones used in the R2 moogle buy.  I'm not sure if cycloverid has also tweaked Win and Caps Lock.  PM me your email address.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 08:44:55
Alright I got the SVGs for RGBY. I know how i'll be designing the new files. I just need to know cutter widths available, once Jesuswasazombie gets a reply from Melissa.

BACK TO WRITING UP COURSEWORK!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 14:05:25
Quote from: hazeluff;488591
Alright I got the SVGs for RGBY. I know how i'll be designing the new files. I just need to know cutter widths available, once Jesuswasazombie gets a reply from Melissa.

BACK TO WRITING UP COURSEWORK!

So apparently Cycloverid got some kind of exception and Melissa said that it is too costly for them to use multiple widths...

As for the size of a single cutter 0.012-0.030


Maybe we should go in a different direction than SP... but who else makes custom doubleshots?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: cancelx on Thu, 12 January 2012, 14:20:20
Maybe Fentek?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 14:44:38
Quote from: cancelx;488899
Maybe Fentek?

I have found out everyone (inc Fentek) get their keycaps done by SP.

Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;488880
So apparently Cycloverid got some kind of exception and Melissa said that it is too costly for them to use multiple widths...

As for the size of a single cutter 0.012-0.030


Maybe we should go in a different direction than SP... but who else makes custom doubleshots?

I would suggest dyesub, cept the color scheme is dolch...= /
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Thu, 12 January 2012, 14:52:17
Quote from: hazeluff;488915
I would suggest dyesub, cept the color scheme is dolch...= /

I don't think you can put white ink on dark grey and have the white ink show up correctly.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 15:12:25
Dolch double shot otakus!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 15:48:52
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;488932
Dolch double shot otakus!

So blanks? with imaginary legends?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 16:23:36
Yeah or just print out the SVGs and glue them to the keycaps...

In all seriousness I'm not sure how to proceed.

current Pros & (Cons)

Cool replica Dolch key caps (Pricey for custom legends)
Cherry Legends (albeit somewhat inaccurately thick or thin lines)
Double shots (thin key caps)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 16:49:25
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;488981
Yeah or just print out the SVGs and glue them to the keycaps...

In all seriousness I'm not sure how to proceed.

current Pros & (Cons)

Cool replica Dolch key caps (Pricey for custom legends)
Cherry Legends (albeit somewhat inaccurately thick or thin lines)
Double shots (thin key caps)

= /
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 12 January 2012, 16:54:04
OP really? After all this time, this is the conclusion you came up with?

We knew ALL those things before hazeluff started working on those SVGs
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 17:05:46
Quote from: tsangan;489003
OP really? After all this time, this is the conclusion you came up with?

We knew ALL those things before hazeluff started working on those SVGs

Not all of it. = / but lets see.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 17:49:37
Quote from: tsangan;489003
OP really? After all this time, this is the conclusion you came up with?

We knew ALL those things before hazeluff started working on those SVGs

O RLY?

So you knew that SP had made keycaps with multiple cutter lengths before but wouldn't now that I wanted to do a whole board instead of just a moogle kit?

That list was just to summarize and quite frankly I'm considering the single width cherry legend a deal breaker (unless it looks good and people like it enough to buy it). However I don't want to pressure hazeluff into having to make more SVGs while he's trying to do coursework (and thank you so much Hazeluff for all the work you have put into this!). Which is why I wrote that list to garner interest and find the direction which the people (who want these caps and are willing to pay) interested want to go.


EDIT: Not all of us have a lot of money to throw around and these will most likely be somewhat expensive so the quality and thus demand rule how I am going to proceed with this project.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 12 January 2012, 18:00:17
So what I said 8 pages ago

Quote from: tsangan;478728
It will be VERY expensive, people would be better off just buying a legit set then getting a moogle kit :P
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 18:07:18
So we shouldn't bother? How awesome would it be if everyone could use the original 80s cherry font in all of their GBs?

To me its worth trying to do at least...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Thu, 12 January 2012, 18:19:17
I don't think it would be worth the cost unless we could source the real font
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 18:21:21
Either petition Sixty and plan some sort of espionage

http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=873
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 18:25:21
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;489025
O RLY?

So you knew that SP had made keycaps with multiple cutter lengths before but wouldn't now that I wanted to do a whole board instead of just a moogle kit?

That list was just to summarize and quite frankly I'm considering the single width cherry legend a deal breaker (unless it looks good and people like it enough to buy it). However I don't want to pressure hazeluff into having to make more SVGs while he's trying to do coursework (and thank you so much Hazeluff for all the work you have put into this!). Which is why I wrote that list to garner interest and find the direction which the people (who want these caps and are willing to pay) interested want to go.


EDIT: Not all of us have a lot of money to throw around and these will most likely be somewhat expensive so the quality and thus demand rule how I am going to proceed with this project.

Courseworks fine, it comes and go. I'm free after monday.

Anyway. I personally think we should just go for the pre-existing fonts on dolch color keycaps. It'll keep cost down and should attract the bunch of people who can't afford $100 sets. If we go with a decision to make new SVGs for single width, I'd be happy to do it. BUT I don't recommend it, since you won't get much difference to fonts that SP already have. The Cherry font really required at least 2 widths to do.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 18:36:55
I'll have to wait till Monday to get an estimate.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 12 January 2012, 19:43:01
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;488932
Dolch double shot otakus!

Quote from: hazeluff;488960
So blanks? with imaginary legends?
Blank double shot keys do exist, I think. They're the best "otaku" :p
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Thu, 12 January 2012, 19:47:26
Only the smartest people can notice the existence of double-shot otaku keycaps.  They are called "Do'htaku".
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 12 January 2012, 20:39:32
I like the idea of black on black (same exact plastic preferably).

Will look so awesome.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 12 January 2012, 22:55:08
Quote from: hazeluff;489046
If we go with a decision to make new SVGs for single width, I'd be happy to do it. BUT I don't recommend it, since you won't get much difference to fonts that SP already have. The Cherry font really required at least 2 widths to do.


The finished keys from my group buy should provide a decent test for whether it's worth proceeding without multiple widths, though I won't have any from the main alphanum cluster where it might be more noticeable.  My Esc prototype has a single-width E, and looks really good.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37381[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]37382[/ATTACH]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Fri, 13 January 2012, 00:13:57
SP seems to be getting to much business from us.  First they start charging more in group buy 4 to cover their potential screw-ups because they can't do their job for group buy 3. Now they say "oh, 2 cuts is too much work, we won't do it again."  

We really need a second source for double shot keycaps.  Calling imsto... Calling imsto!!!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Creizai on Fri, 13 January 2012, 15:07:02
What type of keys are you planning to print these on? Its hard for me to switch to any other keys than PBT :(
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 13 January 2012, 15:15:58
Quote from: hashbaz;489213
The finished keys from my group buy should provide a decent test for whether it's worth proceeding without multiple widths, though I won't have any from the main alphanum cluster where it might be more noticeable.  My Esc prototype has a single-width E, and looks really good.

(Attachment) 37381[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 37382[/ATTACH]

The S is so asymmetrical it hurts. The single/double width will stand out on keys like A, H, R, Q. Its not a lot of keks that have 2 widths, but for a person who wants "replicas" i wouldn't consider single width to be one.

Quote from: Creizai;489746
What type of keys are you planning to print these on? Its hard for me to switch to any other keys than PBT :(

ABS(??) if I remember correctly, that's what doubleshots use.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Fri, 13 January 2012, 17:24:34
Quote from: hazeluff;489755
The S is so asymmetrical it hurts. The single/double width will stand out on keys like A, H, R, Q. Its not a lot of keks that have 2 widths, but for a person who wants "replicas" i wouldn't consider single width to be one.

Aren't "replicas" already out of the question given the thin walls and different profile?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 13 January 2012, 17:27:26
Quote from: hashbaz;489857
Aren't "replicas" already out of the question given the thin walls and different profile?

replica looks?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 16 January 2012, 15:18:20
Got a response from Cherry this morning and the official name of the font is "Formula One"
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 16 January 2012, 15:23:13
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;491836
Got a response from Cherry this morning and the official name of the font is "Formula One"

Which doens't turn out anything useful when searching for it.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 16 January 2012, 15:38:40
Just a thought, but has anyone asked Devlin for pricing? Their keys are a lot more close to Cherry if not the same profile, and are as thick as Cherry ones. Even if considerable more expensive, I say worth it as I personally don't really care for SP profiles at all let alone the quality. The bottom row is too angled and sharp edged in my opinion.
VAG Rounded is a pretty close match for font.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 16 January 2012, 19:04:47
Quote from: lysol;491857
Just a thought, but has anyone asked Devlin for pricing? Their keys are a lot more close to Cherry if not the same profile, and are as thick as Cherry ones. Even if considerable more expensive, I say worth it as I personally don't really care for SP profiles at all let alone the quality. The bottom row is too angled and sharp edged in my opinion.
VAG Rounded is a pretty close match for font.

Yeah, that spacebar is like a knife!

So devlin is more expensive? Have we conteacted them about US copyright issues? I suspect SC2 sets will still be popular, despite the added cost.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 16 January 2012, 19:12:02
SC keys going at like $5+ a key. People probably would still buy them.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 16 January 2012, 22:25:40
I've never heard of Devlin, but googling for VAG Rounded yields a pleasing-looking font.  Do we have any idea what it would cost to get sets made with this font?  And why are we talking about SC2 keys? :P

(http://www.identifont.com/samples/bitstream/VAGRounded.gif)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 16 January 2012, 23:47:13
Yeah, it's pretty close, but some are off. Most of the numbers look different, the H is too wide, the M is wrong and the tail on the Q is a little too long, etc. I will keep looking through my font books and see if I can find anything closer. If not I suppose could load it up in font editor and fix those things. Not sure if using a custom font over svg offer any savings but probably easier to deal with.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 17 January 2012, 04:34:57
Just keep in mind that we can only use a single width line for doubleshots :( (at SP)

As for Devlin, what is their official site? The one listed in the Devlin wiki isn't for custom stuff.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 17 January 2012, 14:31:44
http://devlin.co.uk/ also http://www.devlincomponents.co.uk/ ... UK member would probably have better luck contacting since they can phone. They don't seem to like email.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 17 January 2012, 14:47:50
Shot 'em an email regardless, thanks for the info.

Edit: Called them but realized its about 9pm in Hampshire...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Tue, 17 January 2012, 15:44:27
I don't understand how Devlin wasn't brought up before? I would think the guys at deskthority have used them before.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 17 January 2012, 22:38:49
Not sure about DT, other than a thread discussing the possibility of a buy that ended with no info... I've seen some mentions of them being used to manufacture a Korean sites GB stuff. Poor translations and likely sketchy details at the start didn't provide relevant info.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Tue, 17 January 2012, 22:47:01
Quote from: lysol;493133
Not sure about DT, other than a thread discussing the possibility of a buy that ended with no info... I've seen some mentions of them being used to manufacture a Korean sites GB stuff. Poor translations and likely sketchy details at the start didn't provide relevant info.
Any pictures?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 17 January 2012, 23:02:28
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37839[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37842[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37843[/ATTACH]

KBDHOLIC source.

Seems to elude to Devlin only will do double shot on 1unit keys? Even though the 'blank' over 1unit also appear to be double shot with nothing... WTF?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Wed, 18 January 2012, 11:07:31
[ATTACH=CONFIG]37854[/ATTACH]

False advertising
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 18 January 2012, 11:12:22
Quote from: Reptile;493397
(Attachment) 37854[/ATTACH]

False advertising

= OOO gasssppp
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 18 January 2012, 15:29:26
They responded to my email fairly quick. Sending them more info for the quote.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: JSchool on Wed, 18 January 2012, 19:28:04
Are the odds fairly high that this will turn into a group buy eventually?  Trying to decide if I should keep my R3 order in the R4 group buy.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 19 January 2012, 04:36:49
Definitely wait until this turns into an official group buy before you cancel your order

It depends on what kind of quote devlin gives me on the set...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: byFd on Thu, 19 January 2012, 06:36:42
i think i remember reading somewhere that devlin can't/won't do doubleshots? not sure though...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 19 January 2012, 10:43:05
Has fingers crossed... Even if they were to come back with only single units as doubleshots, and a decent price my opinion would be to still go with them just on a quality basis. If they can do the legends close to Cherry, correct colors, on nice keys that are so close to Cherry, a few blank keys would not bother me at all.
To be blunt, if using SP I have absolutely no interest in them. I would rather pay $200 for an entire Dolch PAC than have SP **** keycaps.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 19 January 2012, 13:46:11
Quote from: lysol;494070
Has fingers crossed... Even if they were to come back with only single units as doubleshots, and a decent price my opinion would be to still go with them just on a quality basis. If they can do the legends close to Cherry, correct colors, on nice keys that are so close to Cherry, a few blank keys would not bother me at all.
To be blunt, if using SP I have absolutely no interest in them. I would rather pay $200 for an entire Dolch PAC than have SP **** keycaps.

Lots of hate :mad2:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 19 January 2012, 14:05:55
LOL. Yeah I'm not a fan of SP, it's so obvious? The only keys I own that they did that are nice are vintage Wyse, and the Leopold esc keys. The rest of them are pretty meh, which is why I'm trading / selling them.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 19 January 2012, 19:58:36
Quote from: lysol;494217
LOL. Yeah I'm not a fan of SP, it's so obvious? The only keys I own that they did that are nice are vintage Wyse, and the Leopold esc keys. The rest of them are pretty meh, which is why I'm trading / selling them.
I'm not sure SP did the vintage WYSE: they're too nice!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 19 January 2012, 20:01:38
Yep, I think they did... Then they changed molds sometime in the 90's and well... it's what it is. They still used the same font on later ones, and even now.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Forin on Sat, 21 January 2012, 04:32:48
What is the status of this group buy? Is it gonna happen?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jlien on Sat, 21 January 2012, 08:47:54
Im interested
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 23 January 2012, 03:56:28
What do you think, closer font?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38315[/ATTACH]
I suppose could mix VAG Rounded and Helvetica Rounded and get a close approximation.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 23 January 2012, 11:34:03
Close enough for me.  G is the only big difference that I can see.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 23 January 2012, 11:42:27
Quote from: lysol;496662
What do you think, closer font?
(Attachment) 38315[/ATTACH]
I suppose could mix VAG Rounded and Helvetica Rounded and get a close approximation.

The problem isn't the font anymore, its the fact that SP won't do two width legends. Which means that keys like 'T','Q','R' and 'B' Won't look right. Otherwise we could of used the one I was making/The one fonts SP have.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 23 January 2012, 11:47:24
Quote from: hashbaz;496831
Close enough for me.  G is the only big difference that I can see.

+1, and I would buy a set if this is really going to happen.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 23 January 2012, 13:41:27
Any word from Devlin yet?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 23 January 2012, 13:51:07
They're looking for a .TTF if they have the font/ tooling already. But when I asked for Cherry's Formula One he came up with something completely different (Traditional "Formula One")

I'll send him that picture and see if he has anything close.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 23 January 2012, 13:55:43
Dolch fo lyfe! :hippie:

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38173&d=1327181536)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: 7bit on Mon, 23 January 2012, 14:16:41
Quote from: hashbaz;496831
Close enough for me.  G is the only big difference that I can see.
G looks even better with that extra-line.

Quote from: hazeluff;496837
The problem isn't the font anymore, its the fact that SP won't do two width legends. Which means that keys like 'T','Q','R' and 'B' Won't look right. Otherwise we could of used the one I was making/The one fonts SP have.


Would it be OK to have only the smaller labels (like Esc, Shift, Control etc.) made in a custom font with their maximum line width and the A-Z labels made with SVG legends?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 23 January 2012, 15:11:35
Quote from: tsangan;496956
Dolch fo lyfe! :hippie:

Nice pic!

Still waiting for a quote and working out logistics with Prabu from Devlin.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 23 January 2012, 15:15:24
Quote from: 7bit;496975
G looks even better with that extra-line.



Would it be OK to have only the smaller labels (like Esc, Shift, Control etc.) made in a custom font with their maximum line width and the A-Z labels made with SVG legends?

I don't think its not possible, but depends on if we're gonna be charged for $25/35 per legend...thats... alot.

I've already drawn the things as SVGs, so if we can get that and not have to pay a buttload of money, itd be the way to go imo.

Also forgot earlier when I was talking about the font thing, I shouldn't of said it. Forgot we were checking out devlin. But what I was saying was refering the situation with SP.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 23 January 2012, 15:22:19
Quote from: hazeluff;497017
I don't think its not possible, but depends on if we're gonna be charged for $25/35 per legend...thats... alot.

I've already drawn the things as SVGs, so if we can get that and not have to pay a buttload of money, itd be the way to go imo.

Also forgot earlier when I was talking about the font thing, I shouldn't of said it. Forgot we were checking out devlin. But what I was saying was refering the situation with SP.

SVGs fonts shouldn't cost $25-$45, from past group buys it was only $10 per legend.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: boost on Mon, 23 January 2012, 15:36:51
Im interested in a set or 2
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: 7bit on Mon, 23 January 2012, 15:57:34
Quote from: tsangan;497023
SVGs fonts shouldn't cost $25-$45, from past group buys it was only $10 per legend.


At least for Round 4 it is $45 because they "significantly underestimated the time and tooling it took to make these last time".

On the other hand, once we've got them, they do not charge more for the keys than with text-legends.

PS: If you can get Devlin to make double shots in any color we want and they've got the sizes we need, and they are not too expensive, maybe for Round 4 ... well let's see ...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 23 January 2012, 16:10:59
Quote from: tsangan;497023
SVGs fonts shouldn't cost $25-$45, from past group buys it was only $10 per legend.


I thought you said that $10 was a volume discount? (volume of new legends, not keys)  I paid $35 apiece for the new legends in my RGBY group buy.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 23 January 2012, 16:19:56
Quote from: 7bit;497043
At least for Round 4 it is $45 because they "significantly underestimated the time and tooling it took to make these last time".

On the other hand, once we've got them, they do not charge more for the keys than with text-legends.

PS: If you can get Devlin to make double shots in any color we want and they've got the sizes we need, and they are not too expensive, maybe for Round 4 ... well let's see ...
They just hate us and want to charge us more :<

Quote from: hashbaz;497049
I thought you said that $10 was a volume discount? (volume of new legends, not keys)  I paid $35 apiece for the new legends in my RGBY group buy.
Maybe I misunderstood Melissa then, even if that's the case then this GB should have the volume for $10/legend no?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Mon, 23 January 2012, 16:24:54
Quote from: tsangan;497056
Maybe I misunderstood Melissa then, even if that's the case then this GB should have the volume for $10/legend no?

If there is a volume discount for legend fees, I imagine 87 legends would be enough to get it.  But I've never heard that there is one outside of this thread.  Are we sure it exists?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: 7bit on Mon, 23 January 2012, 17:14:17
Quote from: hashbaz;497062
If there is a volume discount for legend fees, I imagine 87 legends would be enough to get it.  But I've never heard that there is one outside of this thread.  Are we sure it exists?


I got a volume discount in Round3:
$0 for 1 unit keys and $25 for SVGs on larger keys.

Those where the good old times ...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 23 January 2012, 17:21:07
Quote from: hashbaz;497062
If there is a volume discount for legend fees, I imagine 87 legends would be enough to get it.  But I've never heard that there is one outside of this thread.  Are we sure it exists?

The cream cheese and green set was 86 legends and it was at $10/legend I got the quote from Melissa
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Mon, 23 January 2012, 17:24:59
I thought 7bit was talking about like non-centerline-SVGs earlier.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 16:18:56
They're very eager to send me some samples... I requested initial samples to be Helvetica Rounded Bold as they already have the tooling for that I believe. They're looking for a .ttf for custom fonts.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 16:22:57
This is good news.  How have we never done business with Devlin before?  Do I remember right that they are in the UK?  If so, should they send the samples to hazeluff to cut down on shipping time overhead?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 16:32:36
That's what I was thinking. Hazel where you at, want some samples? : p
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 24 January 2012, 16:49:59
Samples please!?

I don't mind getting them and taking photos. = )
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: keyboardnoob on Tue, 24 January 2012, 18:32:10
If it includes the Colored modifiers I would probably get one.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 24 January 2012, 19:40:59
Quote from: keyboardnoob;498000
If it includes the Colored modifiers I would probably get one.

Why would including colored modifiers be the deciding factor?  That seems orthogonal to the spirit of a Dolch replica set.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 24 January 2012, 19:42:20
That makes 100% sense they should have a Cherry-esque font. Perusing their site again they say they are an official Cherry partner... makes me think they would have a matching font for custom jobs. Good news. Now if they come in with a reasonable price... if it's under $120 a set i'm definitely in, possibly for more than one.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 22:08:21
Quote from: litster;498054
Why would including colored modifiers be the deciding factor?  That seems orthogonal to the spirit of a Dolch replica set.

Heh, orthogonal.  Spoken like a true programmer. ;)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 24 January 2012, 22:21:45
I learn big words from our program managers :-)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: keyboardnoob on Tue, 24 January 2012, 22:22:33
Quote from: litster;498054
Why would including colored modifiers be the deciding factor?  That seems orthogonal to the spirit of a Dolch replica set.


Because I could care less of the spirit of Dolch.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 24 January 2012, 22:28:28
Quote from: keyboardnoob;498218
Because I could care less of the spirit of Dolch.


Then you are in the wrong group buy or you have no idea why we would do a Dolch replica.  What you are basically saying is, "if this refrigerator comes with a tub of Neapolitan ice cream, I would probably get one."
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: metafour on Tue, 24 January 2012, 22:39:03
Quote from: litster;498223
Then you are in the wrong group buy or you have no idea why we would do a Dolch replica.  What you are basically saying is, "if this refrigerator comes with a tub of Neapolitan ice cream, I would probably get one."

Wait! Every fridge you've ever bought didn't come with a tub of Neapolitan ice cream? You're shopping at the wrong places... ;)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: keyboardnoob on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:21:28
Quote from: litster;498223
Then you are in the wrong group buy or you have no idea why we would do a Dolch replica.  What you are basically saying is, "if this refrigerator comes with a tub of Neapolitan ice cream, I would probably get one."

This is by far the most retarded comparaison I have ever seen in my whole life.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:24:55
Let's say I misunderstood what you mean by colored modifiers.  You don't mean RGB modifiers, do you?  If you do, can you explain why including RGB  would make you join this Dolch group buy?  

Nice screen name, BTW.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:31:22
Easy, fellas.  keyboardnoob, I don't think it would make sense to include RGB modifiers with this group buy.  Not everyone who wants a Dolch set would want them, and lots of people who don't want the Dolch set would.

You can order RGB sets from Round 4, and there are lots of sets from aggiejy's group buy floating around.  And, of course, there is always my group buy (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23209-Interest-Check-Faux-Cherry-Red-ESC-RGBY-modifiers). :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:34:03
If it includes a bowl of poutine I would probably get one.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: reaper on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:36:15
:pop2:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:38:09
reaper I miss your old avatar.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: reaper on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:40:29
Quote from: hashbaz;498311
reaper I miss your old avatar.

Just for you...  Now, where were we..  oh the popcorn. :pop2:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: keyboardnoob on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:43:04
Quote from: hashbaz;498299
Easy, fellas.  keyboardnoob, I don't think it would make sense to include RGB modifiers with this group buy.  Not everyone who wants a Dolch set would want them, and lots of people who don't want the Dolch set would.

You can order RGB sets from Round 4, and there are lots of sets from aggiejy's group buy floating around.  And, of course, there is always my group buy (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23209-Interest-Check-Faux-Cherry-Red-ESC-RGBY-modifiers). :)

Was just asking since they were shown in most pictures, thanks for not being a **** about it.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:45:14
Quote from: reaper;498312
Just for you...  Now, where were we..  oh the popcorn. :pop2:

That's better. :D
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:49:46
Quote from: keyboardnoob;498290
This is by far the most retarded comparaison I have ever seen in my whole life.

I don't think it is as retarded as assuming that this Dolch keycap group buy would include colored modifiers.

More popcorn for you, reap!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Tue, 24 January 2012, 23:56:16
:peep:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: BiNiaRiS on Wed, 25 January 2012, 00:28:52
i'd be game for a set if you offered this in dvorak layout with white modifiers instead of the dark grey.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: reaper on Wed, 25 January 2012, 00:31:43
Quote from: litster;498319

More popcorn for you, reap!


Thanks! =D

Quote from: tsangan;498330
:peep:


No need to stay behind that wall.  Come join me behind the sofa. :behindsofa:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 25 January 2012, 00:32:34
lol wut? inb4 GLWIC
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: eth0s on Wed, 25 January 2012, 02:53:02
I'm totally confused now, so does this come with a bowl of poutine or a bowl of ice cream?  I'm in for one of each I guess, but only if the ice cream is pistachio.

D0LCH D0LCH D0LCH

I shoulda outbid one of you keyboard-hoarding phreaks on eBay last week.  There was a D0lch Pac 586 that went for $87.  Damn I'm mad I missed it.  It won't happen again, I promise you that.

Sent from my non-Dolch keycaps.



P.S. Are Jee Bee?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 25 January 2012, 07:03:42
Quote from: eth0s;498464
I'm totally confused now, so does this come with a bowl of poutine or a bowl of ice cream?  I'm in for one of each I guess, but only if the ice cream is pistachio.

D0LCH D0LCH D0LCH

I shoulda outbid one of you keyboard-hoarding phreaks on eBay last week.  There was a D0lch Pac 586 that went for $87.  Damn I'm mad I missed it.  It won't happen again, I promise you that.

Sent from my non-Dolch keycaps.



P.S. Are Jee Bee?

You sir are hiliarious. You win yourself a Medal and a kitten.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Wed, 25 January 2012, 23:28:16
Quote from: BiNiaRiS;498386
i'd be game for a set if you offered this in dvorak layout with white modifiers instead of the dark grey.
I'm game for any doubleshots in Dvorak.
Title: one more!
Post by: litster on Wed, 25 January 2012, 23:38:52
One more, baby!

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=38603&d=1327556281)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 26 January 2012, 00:20:46
Quote
(Attachment) 38608[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 38609[/ATTACH]
Regarding the keycaps that you inquired about, we cannot do them in double shot, they will have to be lasered and in ABS Plastic not PBT.
Do all of the keycaps have central bosses or are they off centre? The reason I ask is because the "Caps Lock" seems to be an off centre keycap which we cannot do.
I have prepared a few samples of what we can do, please see attached images, I hope they suit your requirement
As always shout with any queries!
The price for the keytops is £45.00 per set

Well, judging from this it looks like Devlin is off the table. Who does KBD Mania and OTD go through?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 26 January 2012, 00:28:19
Bummer.  What can they do in double shot?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 26 January 2012, 00:59:44
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;499329
Well, judging from this it looks like Devlin is off the table. Who does KBD Mania and OTD go through?

OTD and KBDmania go through SP just like everyone else
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 26 January 2012, 01:11:14
*shakes fist at SP*

[video=youtube;GrCYX5lxVQo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrCYX5lxVQo[/video]
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 26 January 2012, 01:52:07
How is there only one company who makes double shot keycaps? Well back to SP negotiations...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: kaiserreich on Thu, 26 January 2012, 06:34:01
Devlin must've thrown away all their double shot machines
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 26 January 2012, 09:06:27
WTF? They were doing doubleshots last year when I asked them, at least for POS customer... they did get the font pretty much right though.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 26 January 2012, 09:56:13
Weird, because I swear they still do doubleshots, maybe they just can't do it for this?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: 7bit on Thu, 26 January 2012, 10:57:47
Quote from: tsangan;499528
Weird, because I swear they still do doubleshots, maybe they just can't do it for this?


Maybe he asked the wrong question or it is his American accent.

As far as I remember they do double shots but not with custom legends and only in white on black. But I did not find the source of that (somewhere at Deskthority).
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 26 January 2012, 11:01:17
Quote from: 7bit;499578
Maybe he asked the wrong question or it is his American accent.

As far as I remember they do double shots but not with custom legends and only in white on black. But I did not find the source of that (somewhere at Deskthority).
Oh yes I think I remember seeing that it was only white on black also somewhere.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 26 January 2012, 11:24:50
Perhaps the right questions weren't asked, or they are confused. If they have the equipment for doubleshot, I don't understand to REFUSE to make in the legend we want if we pay for it. Also saying only use those two color makes zero sense. What have the colors to do with anything? Even if they only had black and white plastic on hand, nothing stopping them from mixing them to grey, or ordering that grey if we want to pay it.

Like asking for a rare steak in a restaurant and being told to f*ck off if you don't want it well done.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Thu, 26 January 2012, 11:26:21
Quote from: lysol;499610
Like asking for a rare steak in a restaurant and being told to f*ck off if you don't want it well done.
Well done steak :puke:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 26 January 2012, 11:57:06
Quote from: lysol;499610

Like asking for a rare steak in a restaurant and being told to f*ck off if you don't want it well done.

I suddenly want sushi. Order-out sushi tonight!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: 7bit on Thu, 26 January 2012, 12:07:46
Quote from: hazeluff;499659
I suddenly want sushi. Order-out sushi tonight!


I want my sushi without chocolate and it must be served centered!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Zehkul on Thu, 26 January 2012, 17:01:18
Sad thing, their keycaps look yummy. A Devlin round 5 would be amazing.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Fri, 27 January 2012, 19:32:07
GLWIC
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Fri, 27 January 2012, 19:41:19
OP bought a legit Dolch set :p
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 27 January 2012, 20:05:10
Quote from: tsangan;501152
OP bought a legit Dolch set :p

Delicious.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Fri, 27 January 2012, 21:18:39
I still would like to do a GB. I just don't think SP has what people want.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 27 January 2012, 21:21:06
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;501220
I still would like to do a GB. I just don't think SP has what people want.

Unfortunately = (
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 27 January 2012, 21:49:30
I found loads of Chinese factory that purport to do double injection keycap... but all the examples seem to be for telephone buttons. I wonder if any of them might do keyboard keycaps?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Fri, 27 January 2012, 21:55:31
Quote from: lysol;501249
I found loads of Chinese factory that purport to do double injection keycap... but all the examples seem to be for telephone buttons. I wonder if any of them might do keyboard keycaps?

The problem is we're looking for cherry MX keycaps specifically. There are tons of factory that can do double-shot injection. They just need a mold for keycaps. Also need someone to work stuff out.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Sat, 28 January 2012, 02:29:01
What I see as the best hope for sets like this to happen would be if a vendor (or multiple vendors!) could start doing something like a seasonal kit through SP or whoever.  Spring 2012, Dolch replica kit;  Summer 2012, WYSE replica kit; Fall 2012, Space Cadet kit; and so on.  Maybe this along with stocking some standard black and standard white doubleshot kits might give SP enough business, and with predictability in scheduling, to make projects like this more reasonable for them to produce (ie have the desire to keep said vendor as a customer), and it would benefit whichever vendor took the risk in ordering kits by getting to add some markup.  I realize that that would mean these kits wouldn't get to group 3 low prices, BUT, it would stop all the death-by-too-many-options.  In other words, someone like WASD or EK says "Here, I will have X number of *THIS* kit available in Q2.  Order Here."  No customization, no piggybacking groups, just a single product that revolves on a reasonable schedule, since there will not be a long-term market for any of these kits.  Once the hobbiest market is saturated with Dolch rep kits (which will likely outsell any other kit besides the basics), there's no reason to continue making or offering them, and moving on to a new design will bring back repeat customers.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gimpster on Sat, 28 January 2012, 03:23:31
tl;dr

I have a handful of cash and I want the key caps from the photos in the OP. With whom do I speak to complete my transaction? :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Sat, 28 January 2012, 07:57:06
Quote from: Oqsy;501374
What I see as the best hope for sets like this to happen would be if a vendor (or multiple vendors!) could start doing something like a seasonal kit through SP or whoever.  Spring 2012, Dolch replica kit;  Summer 2012, WYSE replica kit; Fall 2012, Space Cadet kit; and so on.  Maybe this along with stocking some standard black and standard white doubleshot kits might give SP enough business, and with predictability in scheduling, to make projects like this more reasonable for them to produce (ie have the desire to keep said vendor as a customer), and it would benefit whichever vendor took the risk in ordering kits by getting to add some markup.  I realize that that would mean these kits wouldn't get to group 3 low prices, BUT, it would stop all the death-by-too-many-options.  In other words, someone like WASD or EK says "Here, I will have X number of *THIS* kit available in Q2.  Order Here."  No customization, no piggybacking groups, just a single product that revolves on a reasonable schedule, since there will not be a long-term market for any of these kits.  Once the hobbiest market is saturated with Dolch rep kits (which will likely outsell any other kit besides the basics), there's no reason to continue making or offering them, and moving on to a new design will bring back repeat customers.

Quite well said.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sat, 28 January 2012, 14:51:59
That would be awesome Oqsy. Someone like WASD/ EK has quite the opportunity making replica kits of vintage keycaps.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 28 January 2012, 15:44:35
It would be great if unicomp did that, too.

Like:

Q1: kentucky wildcats kit. Q2: green kit. Q3: blood-red kit. I think it'd drum up some business for them.
---
I think this would work BETTER for SP if their doubleshots weren't thin as piss.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 02 February 2012, 11:58:06
Hmn... so I see that on SP site they have 'left over Cherry key from G81 (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capswhatsnew.php)' they are lasered ones, but if they don't make them why are they selling them? If they make those, I can assume they made the doubleshots too? If they make them why are they being *****es about making more for us?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 02 February 2012, 20:11:29
With SP ... I don't even ask anymore. Maybe they used the G81 is their offices?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: DanGWanG on Tue, 07 February 2012, 09:28:31
Make this! (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26994-Round-III-Signature-Plastics-Dolce-Replica-Set)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Tue, 07 February 2012, 09:33:38
Quote from: DanGWanG;508148
Make this! (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26994-Round-III-Signature-Plastics-Dolce-Replica-Set)

Round3 REDUX!!!

DanGWanG is just sour he didn't get that set in the classifieds :rofl:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Tue, 07 February 2012, 09:44:40
Quote from: tsangan;508155
Round3 REDUX!!!

DanGWanG is just sour he didn't get that set in the classifieds :rofl:

I know I am!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 07 February 2012, 11:55:55
I dislike the weird looking B A C K   S P A C E on the R3 set.  Why does it look different than the other dark keys?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: 7bit on Tue, 07 February 2012, 12:14:17
Quote from: lysol;506428
Hmn... so I see that on SP site they have 'left over Cherry key from G81 (http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capswhatsnew.php)' they are lasered ones, but if they don't make them why are they selling them? If they make those, I can assume they made the doubleshots too? If they make them why are they being *****es about making more for us?


Theory: They put cutomer-specific key caps on and kept the caps which came with the boards. They way how Cherry sells special versions, it is way cheaper than heaving just the boards without the caps insteasd of buying a container load of naked boards.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Sun, 12 February 2012, 02:32:23
Quote from: DanGWanG;508148
Make this! (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26994-Round-III-Signature-Plastics-Dolce-Replica-Set)

These are not dolch, they are the faux-dolch caps that I've been rallying against in many threads, including this one. Colors are close enough to be tolerable, but those legends are a tragedy. Proper replicas please. Dollar store calculator legends are not what we're after.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Oqsy on Sun, 12 February 2012, 02:43:10
Quote from: hashbaz;508297
I dislike the weird looking B A C K   S P A C E on the R3 set.  Why does it look different than the other dark keys?

See my post above.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Thu, 23 February 2012, 23:07:11
Is this refrigerator group buy still going?  I am craving for a tub of Neapolitan ice cream!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gimpster on Fri, 24 February 2012, 01:49:18
+1 don't let this die!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:26:07
What happened to this buy. The pics in the OP look great!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:30:36
Quote from: lightsout714;530219
What happened to this buy. The pics in the OP look great!

Legend fees are a killer.  That and three more or less concurrent full set group buys. :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:40:06
Do these require new legends? The font doesn't look that special.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:43:37
Dolch font == Cherry font
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:54:48
if you want to get this done you're going to need to get the mold specs from melissa, have your own set of molds milled at a very good machine shop with a very experienced operator, then send them to SP. unless someone who wants this done is actually that operator, this is going to be prohibitively expensive

HOWEVER! i would be in for a set that used dolch colors and the standard SP legends (maybe a couple of custom legends for modifiers or something) but didn't have all the kerning and centering weirdness of gb3

eta: actually it occurs to me that there may be CNC laser cutters that could make the molds.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:58:03
I would be surprised if SP would use molds of unknown origin in their machines, no matter what you tell them.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 28 February 2012, 22:58:50
ok then i don't think this is possible
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 29 February 2012, 01:39:50
New molds, are you nuts?  New legends is expensive enough.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 29 February 2012, 01:42:01
oh, yes, that's confusing. what i means was new legends molds. from the SP marketing documents it sounds like they make a brass mold for each legend that's like a simple 8x8 square with some holes in it or something. that's the one that sounds like it could be produced by someone other than SP without SP's weird requirements.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 29 February 2012, 02:28:29
Ah ok.  I'm not really sure about the terminology and what it all means.  I thought you meant duplicating the Cherry profile, which is hundreds of dollars per key type I believe.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 29 February 2012, 02:39:19
I think we have a better chance of building a time machine and going back in time to Cherry corp and killing all the people that decided to discontinue doubleshots production.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gimpster on Thu, 01 March 2012, 09:22:59
Quote from: lysol;530567
I think we have a better chance of building a time machine and going back in time to Cherry corp and killing all the people that decided to discontinue doubleshots production.

I've watched all of the Doctor Who episodes, it doesn't look that hard to make a TARDIS work...let's do it! :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 01 March 2012, 23:33:05
I personally would rather do a thick PBT set of Dolch colors gray/dark gray with the sneaky HHKB-esque dye sub legends. New school Dolch steez!

SPs keycaps just don't seem to have the level of quality we need to justify the cost...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gimpster on Fri, 02 March 2012, 01:56:54
Quote from: ripster;531986
That's like saying I've watched all the Dr. Who episodes so I should be able to go to bed with Amy Pond.
(Attachment) 42316[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 42317[/ATTACH] (Attachment) 42318[/ATTACH]

I fail to see the flaw in that logic. :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gimpster on Fri, 02 March 2012, 01:59:34
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;532841
I personally would rather do a thick PBT set of Dolch colors gray/dark gray with the sneaky HHKB-esque dye sub legends. New school Dolch steez!

SPs keycaps just don't seem to have the level of quality we need to justify the cost...

I'd be down for something like that, too. I prefer the feel of PBT to ABS. That said, you complain about the quality control of SP (and I'm certainly not defending them) but who do you think we would get to do them if not SP? Also, technically a dye-sub Dolch set would not look the same at all since you can only dye-sub to darker colors, which means it would need black text instead of white. It could still be a nice color combo, but it wouldn't really look very Dolch-ish.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Fri, 02 March 2012, 07:48:02
I like the colour scheme. Not too picky about the fonts. Just make this happen!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Fri, 02 March 2012, 08:48:50
Quote from: Nighted;533032
I like the colour scheme. Not too picky about the fonts. Just make this happen!

For real just pick a similar font and be done with it! I'd be in for one.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Fri, 02 March 2012, 17:00:02
Quote from: gimpster;532938
I'd be down for something like that, too. I prefer the feel of PBT to ABS. That said, you complain about the quality control of SP (and I'm certainly not defending them) but who do you think we would get to do them if not SP? Also, technically a dye-sub Dolch set would not look the same at all since you can only dye-sub to darker colors, which means it would need black text instead of white. It could still be a nice color combo, but it wouldn't really look very Dolch-ish.

Yeah, Dark dye-sublimated legends like the HHKB.

The problem with double shots from Signature Plastics (and its not so much QC) is that SP have thin keycaps AND expensive legend setup costs. At the old prices I would do it. But no way at the new prices plus lame thin caps.

As for PBT I believe that would have to come through someone like Imsto or maybe through Devlin...


As for just doing it with the regular SP legends. No thanks. Look at R3 sets.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Fri, 02 March 2012, 17:37:25
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;533414
Yeah, Dark dye-sublimated legends like the HHKB.

The problem with double shots from Signature Plastics (and its not so much QC) is that SP have thin keycaps AND expensive legend setup costs. At the old prices I would do it. But no way at the new prices plus lame thin caps.

As for PBT I believe that would have to come through someone like Imsto or maybe through Devlin...


As for just doing it with the regular SP legends. No thanks. Look at R3 sets.
Well you could get something better then R3. I'm not a fan of the big centered letters.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: wongster on Fri, 02 March 2012, 18:02:21
Interested!

I like the Dolch colors and definitely like PBT over ABS. I'd prefer white legends, but whatever works for everyone. Make it happen please!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gridlock on Sat, 03 March 2012, 16:46:07
What exactly is stopping us from making the dark HHKB style caps for cherry boards? If you don't mind me asking.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 03 March 2012, 17:09:38
i don't really see what's wrong with the SP molds (ie, thin caps). plus using their molds give us compatibility with all the DS gb sets we have going right now

and imsto's thick caps aren't really any cheaper than going with SP.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Sat, 03 March 2012, 17:23:38
Quote from: gridlock;534179
What exactly is stopping us from making the dark HHKB style caps for cherry boards? If you don't mind me asking.

Nothing, except it has nothing to do with Dolch keycaps which are two-toned white on grey with the Cherry font.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sat, 03 March 2012, 20:22:24
Massive legend costz
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: VladeK on Mon, 05 March 2012, 07:23:28
I want one set.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: JSchool on Tue, 06 March 2012, 05:25:17
Is this going to actually happen?  If so I'll have second thoughts about my Round 3 order in the R4 group buy.  Not that R4 is ever going to happen.  :D
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Tue, 06 March 2012, 08:42:05
Quote from: JSchool;536742
Is this going to actually happen?  If so I'll have second thoughts about my Round 3 order in the R4 group buy.  Not that R4 is ever going to happen.  :D

It seems like no because of legend fees.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 06 March 2012, 11:24:04
There does seems to be some interest in a Dolch-colored set with standard SP legends.  We could make that happen easily enough, but we would want to coordinate with tsangan and lysol.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Tue, 06 March 2012, 11:27:22
Quote from: hashbaz;536900
There does seems to be some interest in a Dolch-colored set with standard SP legends.  We could make that happen easily enough, but we would want to coordinate with tsangan and lysol.

At the moment it's very overloaded with GBs...

Also a Dolch-colored set with SP legends would probably just kill this one outright...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Tue, 06 March 2012, 12:04:17
Quote from: hashbaz;536900
There does seems to be some interest in a Dolch-colored set with standard SP legends.  We could make that happen easily enough, but we would want to coordinate with tsangan and lysol.


I'd be down for that. Probably. Red alert is at the top of my list. Hopefully it happens sooner then later.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 06 March 2012, 12:14:58
there's a huge backlog of GBs right now. cream cheese is coming up next, and then at least one of the round 4 GBs will need to run its course, etc... it's probably best to put this one the backburner.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Tue, 06 March 2012, 12:30:35
Quote from: mkawa;536942
there's a huge backlog of GBs right now. cream cheese is coming up next, and then at least one of the round 4 GBs will need to run its course, etc... it's probably best to put this one the backburner.

I don't really include RD.4 in this. Its kind of its own thing and looks like it will probably never happen. We'll see though.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 06 March 2012, 13:11:30
Yeah, like I said we'd need to coordinate with the other full set buys.  It's probably best to keep this on ice until group buy madness settles down.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 01:57:58
If we replicate the Cherry legends well enough then it would be so worth the cost. But yeah, no hurry until we have a bit of a lull in the GBs and a definite guarantee on quality legends.


Wait... If we do the legends why shouldn't we do a massive GB with Cherry White/ Beige, Cherry Black and Cherry Dolch? (R5???)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 02:29:24
1) unless someone fronts a lot of money, you wouldn't get enough volume to keep costs low.

2) i don't think SP is going to be able to produce the legend molds you want, regardless of cost.

3) that many new complex legends is going to be a huge pain in the ass to proof, to mention working out kerning and other spacing issues. assume you're going to need to run every legend at least twice through their CNC and then on top of that the modifiers will need to be proofed at least once
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 02:31:16
Kerning won't be an issue with custom SVGs.  After my moogle buy we should have all the modifiers done.  It's a start. :)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 02:32:33
oh that's a good point. there will be spacing issues though.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 02:36:26
Quote from: mkawa;537586
oh that's a good point. there will be spacing issues though.

Yup.  I'm working on the new legends for the moogle buy now, and I got exact figures from Melissa about the legendable area of their keys vs. the total size of the key tops.  In theory it will allow me to be very precise.  I'm going to do a prototype Enter key as a test.  Once we get the spacing down for one key in each cluster, the rest will come for free.  F1-F12, the nav cluster, the letters, etc.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 03:23:43
How about this?  This community really need a new set of legends that is as close to Cherry as possible, for this group buy and for future group buys.  Since we have a number of group buys in motion now or will be very soon, would people be willing to start contributing to a GH/DT legend fund for every group buy moving forward?  $0.50 a moogle kit here, $1.00 a full set there.  A few group buys later we will have enough fund to create new legends that can be used for any keycaps we want to make in the future.  We already have a few of them from moogle kit group buys so we don't really have to make them all.

Obviously group buy organizers will need to agree to this and someone trustworthy will need to manage the legend fund pool.

Thoughts?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 03:28:29
I like it.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: agor on Wed, 07 March 2012, 03:31:13
This is a great idea in my opionion.
Sad this would never happen for a German layout though.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 03:36:14
Cost for less demanding sets or add-on sets will cost more due to low volume.  If this is successful, we could keep the fund pool going to get legends created for keys in low volume sets.  You still will need enough people to order for that set though.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Wed, 07 March 2012, 04:28:22
Quote from: litster;537598
How about this?  This community really need a new set of legends that is as close to Cherry as possible, for this group buy and for future group buys.  Since we have a number of group buys in motion now or will be very soon, would people be willing to start contributing to a GH/DT legend fund for every group buy moving forward?  $0.50 a moogle kit here, $1.00 a full set there.  A few group buys later we will have enough fund to create new legends that can be used for any keycaps we want to make in the future.  We already have a few of them from moogle kit group buys so we don't really have to make them all.

Obviously group buy organizers will need to agree to this and someone trustworthy will need to manage the legend fund pool.

Thoughts?

I support this motion!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: biochem on Wed, 07 March 2012, 07:38:48
Quote from: litster;537598
How about this?  This community really need a new set of legends that is as close to Cherry as possible, for this group buy and for future group buys.  Since we have a number of group buys in motion now or will be very soon, would people be willing to start contributing to a GH/DT legend fund for every group buy moving forward?  $0.50 a moogle kit here, $1.00 a full set there.  A few group buys later we will have enough fund to create new legends that can be used for any keycaps we want to make in the future.  We already have a few of them from moogle kit group buys so we don't really have to make them all.  Obviously group buy organizers will need to agree to this and someone trustworthy will need to manage the legend fund pool.  Thoughts?
 I like this proposal!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 11:23:10
If people think this is a good idea.  We will need a few things.

- the total cost to get legends made for the remaining keys that we don't have legends for.
- Need agreement from current GB organizers to add this to their cost, and send collected funds to the legend fund manager who will be the fund escrow.
- New GB organizers will need to be reminded about this effort and to support this
- Once we have enough fund, start a group buy that will use these new legends and get the legends made!
- Everyone is happy!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 11:27:56
Quote from: litster;537868
If people think this is a good idea.  We will need a few things.

- the total cost to get legends made for the remaining keys that we don't have legends for.
- Need agreement from current GB organizers to add this to their cost, and send collected funds to the legend fund manager who will be the fund escrow.
- New GB organizers will need to be reminded about this effort and to support this
- Once we have enough fund, start a group buy that will use these new legends and get the legends made!
- Everyone is happy!
I like :)

We could probably raise this money really fast
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 07 March 2012, 11:42:45
Quote from: biochem;537676
I like this proposal!


I'd like to start by saying:  Thank you for freaking me out with your sig.  That subtle shade of blue had me rather concerned about the state of my monitor.

And onto the topic at hand...

Can I also recommend setting it up so that people can donate to this fund such that those who don't want to buy caps without this new font can step up to the plate as well.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 11:44:28
Quote from: alaricljs;537886
And onto the topic at hand...

Can I also recommend setting it up such that people can donate to this fund such that those who don't want to buy caps without this new font can step up to the plate as well.

Most definitely!  We are not going to stop people from contributing to the cause!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 11:47:53
Quote from: ripster;537888
I'd just reuse the OTD Korean dude's legends.

They just kept hammering on Melissa until it was done right.

This is why American Engineering is in such a decline btw.  Accepting mediocrity like bad kerning.
You still have to pay for the legend fees
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 12:34:44
how much will legend fees be, 300 or so?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 12:37:37
Quote from: mkawa;537934
how much will legend fees be, 300 or so?

Lowest it will be is $10 per legend, and that's the lowest. So we need basically everything besides the modifiers so rough count of 68 legends for a tenkeyless
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 07 March 2012, 12:54:55
If we got the permission from this 'Korean dude' to reuse their molds, SP shouldn't charge fees again for molds made already. They box molds for at least awhile in case another order might be made with them. I know they still had my original Poker molds from months ago when I was preparing round2. If we would have used them again, there wouldn't have been any other fees involved.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 12:59:20
Quote from: lysol;537948
If we got the permission from this 'Korean dude' to reuse their molds, SP shouldn't charge fees again for molds made already. They box molds for at least awhile in case another order might be made with them. I know they still had my original Poker molds from months ago when I was preparing round2. If we would have used them again, there wouldn't have been any other fees involved.

We don't have permission, I asked
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:11:14
it sounds like we can assume about a thousand in legend fees + proofing costs. anyone want to revisit my idea of stocking and making marginal profit on geekhack keys?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:34:01
Set up a sticky thread and have the total amount at the top. Then allow GH members to pledge an amount, say $5-10 to start.

Show who is pledging and what amount with some kind of chart to monitor progress.

When enough pledges have been made to reach the goal, start sending out PMs/invoices to collect the full amount instead of accruing it over time.

With the first full set produced, have a certificate with all contributors and a one time mod kit or special key added in.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:42:09
Kickstarter!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: sth on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:48:39
Quote from: tsangan;537992
Kickstarter!


Yes. A MILLION TIMES yes. Just think... GB via kickstarter would solve so many problems / relieve so many GB-related headaches...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:49:36
kickstart is supposed to be for creative works, and not consumer products... i'm not crazy about using them for these sorts of things

unlike most creative works, we have a perfectly reasonable revenue source to fund this. i like tsangan's original idea, just piggyback the fees on some gbs
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:50:41
I saw just saying this is what kickstarter is lol

I'm not saying to use it
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:51:22
Wait Tsangan, did you ask Melissa or OTD? Why wouldn't they give SP permission for us to use it???
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: sth on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:51:39
I'd think that limited edition keycap sets could sneak in as creative works.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:52:47
Quote from: tsangan;537998
I saw just saying this is what kickstarter is lol

I'm not saying to use it
lol ok

anyway let's do it. cream cheese surcharge sir. WHAR DAT ORDER THREAD

Quote
I'd think that limited edition keycap sets could sneak in as creative works.
a replica of someone else's font is not a creative work :P
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 07 March 2012, 13:58:52
I don't think adding a fee into group buys is a good idea. The way group buys go and the whole convoluted confusion of what fee is getting contributed and when sounds like an inevitable charlie foxtrot.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:00:52
have you read my rant on the economics of group buys yet? people here are generous and want cool ****. i think it'll be fine.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Zehkul on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:03:32
Quote from: tsangan;537950
We don't have permission, I asked


Is there any reason to refuse this? Ok, they paid a lot, but making us pay the whole thing again?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:05:03
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;537999
Wait Tsangan, did you ask Melissa or OTD? Why wouldn't they give SP permission for us to use it???

They were done by someone on kbdmania. SP will let us use it if we have written permission from the owners of the legends if not we can pay the legend fees and then we can use it. We just don't have the permission from the person that made the legends so basically kbdmania.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:05:29
maybe because kbdmania spent a lot of money on the legends?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Zehkul on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:07:05
We could pay a share, just saying.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: demik on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:07:08
Quote from: Zehkul;538020
Is there any reason to refuse this?

Maybe because they wouldn't have been compensated for the time and money they put into it?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:10:22
Paying money for something you know you're going to actually get your hands on is one thing.

Donating money for some tentative project with no known deadline or outcome will not motivate enough people.

I think I specific pledge drive to get it done with visual feedback of the projects progress will actually work and we'll see this turn from a nebulous phantom into an actual reality.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:11:52
If i remember correctly I offered some sort of compensation for it like $200 for legend fees instead of the $860 SP would have charged us :noidea:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:14:34
Quote from: Nighted;538013
I don't think adding a fee into group buys is a good idea. The way group buys go and the whole convoluted confusion of what fee is getting contributed and when sounds like an inevitable charlie foxtrot.

Quote from: Nighted;538036
Paying money for something you know you're going to actually get your hands on is one thing.

Donating money for some tentative project with no known deadline or outcome will not motivate enough people.

I think I specific pledge drive to get it done with visual feedback of the projects progress will actually work and we'll see this turn from a nebulous phantom into an actual reality.

You have a better idea?  If so, share it.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:23:07
Quote from: litster;538040
You have a better idea?  If so, share it.

I already did! You scrolled past it I suppose.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Reptile on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:27:38
Wait why not post on kbdmania ask permission and sell to others there that missed out?

Sent from my mobile
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Zehkul on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:42:45
Quote from: tsangan;538037
If i remember correctly I offered some sort of compensation for it like $200 for legend fees instead of the $860 SP would have charged us :noidea:


I don't get it. I'd gladly take the money. You could even make a deal that it requires another GB paying another 200$ (so that it's 50:50 in the end, more than fair) until they're open for public use.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 March 2012, 14:44:08
well they're his (meaning kbdmania's) legends, so he can do what he wants with them...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 15:22:27
Quote from: Nighted;537988
Set up a sticky thread and have the total amount at the top. Then allow GH members to pledge an amount, say $5-10 to start.

Show who is pledging and what amount with some kind of chart to monitor progress.

When enough pledges have been made to reach the goal, start sending out PMs/invoices to collect the full amount instead of accruing it over time.

With the first full set produced, have a certificate with all contributors and a one time mod kit or special key added in.


I did miss it.  Anyhow I don't think that your idea and my idea are mutually exclusive.  If you want to run with that, please do.  And we can have a friendly competition on which method is going to raise more money.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 07 March 2012, 15:27:00
Quote from: litster;538134
I did miss it.  Anyhow I don't think that your idea and my idea are mutually exclusive.  If you want to run with that, please do.  And we can have a friendly competition on which method is going to raise more money.

My way or both. It's the only way. ;)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 15:34:57
tsangan, you've been in contact with the owner(s) of the legends on kbdmania, and offered them money, and they refused?  Jerks.  Do we have any pictures of how the legends look?

Who wants to be point person on this?  Talk to Melissa to verify the total cost, accept the funds, etc.?  Also we should get started on SVGs.  I'm currently working on Backspace, Enter, Tab, and Backslash/Pipe for the R3 moogle buy.  Depending on how fast and nice they turn out, I might be willing to take the rest on.  And there's also cycloverid and hazeluff who are known quality legend-makers.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 15:47:25
Well their legends aren't even Cherry legends, someone just brought up using their custom font so I was just saying why we can't that's all. I would rather prefer a Cherry replica anyways if I had to choose what to spend money on
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: biochem on Wed, 07 March 2012, 16:18:11
How about a pledge drive where individuals could donate money for specific keys?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 16:22:35
Quote from: biochem;538183
How about a pledge drive where individuals could donate money for specific keys?

Whiskers will donate to the "L" key
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: rknize on Wed, 07 March 2012, 16:27:02
The pledge idea is cool, especially if each person can put it "towards" a certain key.  Kind of silly, but then they can call it their own if they cover the whole fee...put it in their sig, etc.

As to the GB surcharge, why not make it voluntary?  The way my brain works, it's easier to impulse-buy something small when I am already paying for something else (like when I bought a crapload of colored keys from Unicomp when all I really needed was a couple of springs).  "Your already paying for shipping," it says to me.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 16:36:46
Somone find some pictures of KBDmania's GB


edit: also I highly doubt that SP charged them nearly as much as they are charging now to make new legends, Melissa told me they had to raise the price because it took significantly more work than they thought it would... AKA they just wanted more money after R3's buy.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 16:47:28
Adopt a keycap!  I will adopt the Esc key.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: agor on Wed, 07 March 2012, 16:48:18
My opinion is that the hassle isn't worth it if KBDMania aren't even having Cherry Replicas.
If we want it, we need to go all in :whip:
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 07 March 2012, 17:04:32
Quote from: litster;538210
Adopt a keycap!

Yes, yes, yes!!! Now we're getting somewhere! Great concept.

If it does indeed go this way I'll take the "R" key because I am a chronic reloader in FPS games. lol
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 17:30:42
fine fine... I'll take "Delete"!

Litster, start a thread for this?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 17:32:04
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;538205
Somone find some pictures of KBDmania's GB


edit: also I highly doubt that SP charged them nearly as much as they are charging now to make new legends, Melissa told me they had to raise the price because it took significantly more work than they thought it would... AKA they just wanted more money after R3's buy.

They charged them $10 per legend 86 legends total, refer to cream cheese and green thread there's a picture there
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 17:45:04
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;538242
fine fine... I'll take "Delete"!

Litster, start a thread for this?

Where should this adopt a Cherry keycap thread should live?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:01:40
Group buys, I'd say.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:02:24
Tsangan just reminded me that hashbaz already has the Esc key done.  I will take number 3 and number 8.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: tsangan on Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:04:49
F and J are mine!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:17:44
So are we adopting to pay, or adopting to make the SVG legend?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:34:32
Quote from: alaricljs;538268
So are we adopting to pay, or adopting to make the SVG legend?

Adopting to pay.  The legends need to be as uniform as possible, best done by one or two people.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 18:41:31
Quote from: tsangan;538263
F and J are mine!

You are now forever be known as tsangan the nipple adopter.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 19:05:46
Adopt a keycap legend thread is up: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28324-Adopt-a-Cherry-keycap-Legend!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Wed, 07 March 2012, 23:00:48
If you have checked out the new adopt a cherry legend thread, you should.  Already 5 pages.  And over 54 keys out of 100 have been adopted!
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: gimpster on Thu, 08 March 2012, 00:38:33
Crazy thought...how much more of a jump would it be to have new molds done? Thicker molds, more like original Cherry keys, for the ultimate Cherry replica. ;)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 08 March 2012, 00:44:09
Quote from: gimpster;538744
Crazy thought...how much more of a jump would it be to have new molds done? Thicker molds, more like original Cherry keys, for the ultimate Cherry replica. ;)

$$$$$
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 08 March 2012, 06:17:42
Quote from: gimpster;538744
Crazy thought...how much more of a jump would it be to have new molds done? Thicker molds, more like original Cherry keys, for the ultimate Cherry replica. ;)

$45 per i would say. It would incolve the svg not being a line (which is what SP uses for fonts). It would be essentially an "image" for the ldgend, like the images for novelty keys.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hashbaz on Thu, 08 March 2012, 10:51:17
I believe he is talking about entirely new molds, not just new legends.  To get the proper profile and wall thickness.  That is hundreds of $$ per key type, I believe.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: hazeluff on Thu, 08 March 2012, 13:18:59
Quote from: hashbaz;539074
I believe he is talking about entirely new molds, not just new legends.  To get the proper profile and wall thickness.  That is hundreds of $$ per key type, I believe.

Oh woops. sometimes people misuse the word mold to mean the legends.

Yes, $$$$$ for new molds.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 March 2012, 15:19:29
Everyone, go have a look at the samples in the QWERkeys section. Quit wasting time with SP and divert your efforts to someone who is listening.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: litster on Thu, 08 March 2012, 15:39:54
Quote from: lysol;539407
Everyone, go have a look at the samples in the QWERkeys section. Quit wasting time with SP and divert your efforts to someone who is listening.

I must have missed something.  Link?
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: rknize on Thu, 08 March 2012, 15:50:36
Vendor Forums -> QWERkeys
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 March 2012, 15:55:37
? If it is Devlin, looks like they might be prepared to listen to the market now.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Thu, 08 March 2012, 17:00:09
Devlin doesn't like doubleshots

edit:

http://keyboardporn.com/keycaps/kbdholic-rgb-keycaps/
VS.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24814-Devlin-Double-Shot-keys-(keys-only)

now I'm confused.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 March 2012, 17:22:50
These (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?27866-QWER-Keys&p=538905&viewfull=1#post538905) look pretty damn good to me, which was what I was on about. They look very Cherry like in Arial Rounded. Whether they are using Devlin, or it's entirely them done in house I don't know. Either way...
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Thu, 08 March 2012, 19:35:52
I believe he did state it is Devlin.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 08 March 2012, 19:45:16
So why did Devlin say no before then if those are their keys? It's pretty clear they are capable... Arial rounded is good enough.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: Nighted on Thu, 08 March 2012, 21:06:20
Quote from: ripster;539409
Don't get me started on that dude's fonts.

Don't get me started on the warped plastic.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: zoidbergslo on Fri, 09 March 2012, 00:55:55
Devlin can't do 2shot on cherry like profile. Only 2shot are flat keycaps like in here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24814-Devlin-Double-Shot-keys-(keys-only)). Those samples in qwerkey are lasered (dunno what about white on black)
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: lightsout714 on Fri, 09 March 2012, 08:43:15
Quote from: zoidbergslo;539880
Devlin can't do 2shot on cherry like profile. Only 2shot are flat keycaps like in here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24814-Devlin-Double-Shot-keys-(keys-only)). Those samples in qwerkey are lasered (dunno what about white on black)

He did list another profile that they can also do 2 shot in. Not sure what it is. I'm not really a fan of those square flat keys. But those colored keys that were pictured earlier seem to be taller.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 09 March 2012, 10:45:20
Oh, yes I see, a profile problem. Time for Devlin to invest in some Cherry profile clone molds for doubleshots and watch the custom order money pour in.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: divinity on Mon, 12 March 2012, 02:57:08
Is there any chance of getting this group buy in an english layout keyboard?

Maybe I should give in and purchase a US style keyboard because the lack of double row enter keys is killing me.
Title: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy
Post by: jwaz on Sun, 08 April 2012, 22:29:32
Quote from: hashbaz;568010
The first thing we will do is a Dolch replica set.

Hashbaz confirmed this will be the first project from the upcoming Cherry replica legend thread!

OP update incoming!