Author Topic: Newly-implemented changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!  (Read 98308 times)

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 14:58:30 »
Probably when technical details are worked out, such as promotion to rank that can post threads on the Classifieds subforum.  Unsure exactly when that might be, as that requires some programming.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:00:20 »
So does that mean auctions are still allowed until then??

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:02:18 »
Until the new rules are released, the old ones are still in effect.  So yes.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:03:10 »
I don't have a problem with people posting an item for sale on multiple sites, as long as they make it VERY CLEAR that the item is posted for sale elsewhere, and probably link to the ad on the other site(s).

If it's to be an auction, which will no longer be allowed on GH, then it should go in the External Auctions subforum.

I'll second this. I think that sellers should be allowed to sell on multiple sites *if* they say it's listed elsewhere and provide a link. The rule would be hard to enforce in general. And I think that it might be shortsighted of me to have thought that this is the only place that someone might try and sell their keyboard/goods.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:04:32 »
I don't have a problem with people posting an item for sale on multiple sites, as long as they make it VERY CLEAR that the item is posted for sale elsewhere, and probably link to the ad on the other site(s).

If it's to be an auction, which will no longer be allowed on GH, then it should go in the External Auctions subforum.

I'll second this. I think that sellers should be allowed to sell on multiple sites *if* they say it's listed elsewhere and provide a link. The rule would be hard to enforce in general. And I think that it might be shortsighted of me to have thought that this is the only place that someone might try and sell their keyboard/goods.

And make it clear that bids/offers will only be accepted on one site.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:06:49 »
I don't have a problem with people posting an item for sale on multiple sites, as long as they make it VERY CLEAR that the item is posted for sale elsewhere, and probably link to the ad on the other site(s).

If it's to be an auction, which will no longer be allowed on GH, then it should go in the External Auctions subforum.

I'll second this. I think that sellers should be allowed to sell on multiple sites *if* they say it's listed elsewhere and provide a link. The rule would be hard to enforce in general. And I think that it might be shortsighted of me to have thought that this is the only place that someone might try and sell their keyboard/goods.

And make it clear that bids/offers will only be accepted on one site.

But why does that matter?

Offline Melvang

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:09:47 »
To increase transparency of bids and prevent someone saying they have a higher offer on a different site when they don't.
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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:10:24 »
To increase transparency of bids and prevent someone saying they have a higher offer on a different site when they don't.

Well once these go into practice auctions won't be allowed so there won't be bids? Right?

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 15:10:47 »
With new rules, requests for bids or offers will not be allowed.  The rule about only posting in one place is probably getting scratched off anyway due to reasonable arguments made here.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #59 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 08:43:00 »
  • You may post a thread to buy/sell/or conduct a trade here with the following limitation: each member should only create and bump at most 2 up-to-date threads, and 1 unified thread is highly encouraged--the second thread being beneficial only if its nature is very different from the first.  For example:

    “[FS] Filco Majestouch-2 TKL [WTB] leather wrist rest” – 1 combined thread
    “[FT] SP Crap Bag Keycaps – trade here” – 2nd thread

    Any additional active threads will be locked or removed.
I strongly oppose this. This rule would just encourage people to reuse the same threads for a long time, with widely differing items.
It makes it more difficult to see when new items come for sale, and it would leave a lot of old outdated discussions about items no longer for sale.

  • Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
That would be bad if it were enforced as a rule. It would lead to items not being offered here.

Also:
Thread prefixes: Should be a rule. The best way to enforce this would be through a forum extension that makes it mandatory.
Such a forum extension should also allow filtering threads by prefix.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 08:45:07 »
  • You may post a thread to buy/sell/or conduct a trade here with the following limitation: each member should only create and bump at most 2 up-to-date threads, and 1 unified thread is highly encouraged--the second thread being beneficial only if its nature is very different from the first.  For example:

    “[FS] Filco Majestouch-2 TKL [WTB] leather wrist rest” – 1 combined thread
    “[FT] SP Crap Bag Keycaps – trade here” – 2nd thread

    Any additional active threads will be locked or removed.
I strongly oppose this. This rule would just encourage people to reuse the same threads for a long time, with widely differing items.
It makes it more difficult to see when new items come for sale, and it would leave a lot of old outdated discussions about items no longer for sale.

Simply lock the inactive thread, and create a new thread for the new items for sale. You can have many sales threads (old ones closed), but a max of 2 "active" at any time.
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Offline damorgue

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:07:11 »
  • Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does this apply to DT as well? Choosing one or the other will just cause pain. I agree with Findecanor on this one.

  • Thread etiquette:
Are the things listed under 'Thread etiquette' to be considered as rules. Label them as rules if so, cause otherwise that is a bit ambivalent and leaving things which could lead to a ban up for interpretation is bad practice.

All items for sale must include defined prices (please do not request PMs with offers).  If you are unsure how much an item costs, you may ask in the Price Check thread.
That thread has never worked. I would estimate that the ratio of requests to answers is about 10:1, and this would cause that thread to be drowned. I am completely opposed to this rule. Some less valuable items are not even worth it to try and estimate individually, and just listing them and letting the interested people decide how much a bunch of them are worth will increase the number of successful sales. I am not speaking of auctions. This just seems like something aimed at removing auctions but will also remove the chances of selling larger numbers of cheaper items.

Please make sure your country of residence / item location is specified in your profile or your Classifieds thread, as well as whether you intend to use a proxy for shipping.
I think this should be added as a requirement to even post in the classifieds, along with the time active/post number rule. It is beneficial for the entire forum.

  • Classifieds Post Content 
    You should only list for sale or trade items that are already in your possession...

    ---If you are trying to sell your spot in a group buy, please do so in the corresponding group buy thread.
These two means that we have to wait for the GB to be delivered. I think being able to sell spots is a good idea. Shipping it only to ship it off again as soon as it arrives seems wasteful to me.[/list][/list]

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:11:07 »
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....


...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:14:59 »
  • Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.
Does this apply to DT as well? Choosing one or the other will just cause pain. I agree with Findecanor on this one.

That one is likely going away...

With new rules, requests for bids or offers will not be allowed.  The rule about only posting in one place is probably getting scratched off anyway due to reasonable arguments made here.



All items for sale must include defined prices (please do not request PMs with offers).  If you are unsure how much an item costs, you may ask in the Price Check thread.
That thread has never worked. I would estimate that the ratio of requests to answers is about 10:1, and this would cause that thread to be drowned. I am completely opposed to this rule. Some less valuable items are not even worth it to try and estimate individually, and just listing them and letting the interested people decide how much a bunch of them are worth will increase the number of successful sales. I am not speaking of auctions. This just seems like something aimed at removing auctions but will also remove the chances of selling larger numbers of cheaper items.

I have to disagree. People post replies with estimated values all the time. If it's something that is "less valuable" as you put it, well, you know what you paid for it, right? So you should be able to assign a value to it. The only time people post things for sale with "make offer" as an asking price is when they want to get as much money as possible for the item. If you can point me to an example to the contrary, I'd be happy to be proven wrong here.



I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....


...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem

Well, you're a vendor. These changes are being made to try and protect buyers as best we can, without getting involved in individual disputes.
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:21:45 by jdcarpe »
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:20:11 »
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....


...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem

I tend to agree.  I can explain EXACTLY what's going on here:

A few people started complaining and/or there were one or two isolated incidents involving the classifieds. So the admins/mods thought there was a problem with the RULES, so they feel the need to change said RULES in order to make those few incidents seem resolved.

The reality of the situation is, however, that there was no problem with the RULES to begin with, just a problem with PEOPLE. Which you're going to get no matter what you do, so doing anything at all is just illogical.

IMO. Just saying...

#logic
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:30:30 »
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....


...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem

I tend to agree.  I can explain EXACTLY what's going on here:

A few people started complaining and/or there were one or two isolated incidents involving the classifieds. So the admins/mods thought there was a problem with the RULES, so they feel the need to change said RULES in order to make those few incidents seem resolved.

The reality of the situation is, however, that there was no problem with the RULES to begin with, just a problem with PEOPLE. Which you're going to get no matter what you do, so doing anything at all is just illogical.

IMO. Just saying...

#logic

I would have to agree with this one.  To me it almost sounds like gun control.  Hey lets make these things illegal and we won't have any more shootings.
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:37:11 »
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....


...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem

I tend to agree.  I can explain EXACTLY what's going on here:

A few people started complaining and/or there were one or two isolated incidents involving the classifieds. So the admins/mods thought there was a problem with the RULES, so they feel the need to change said RULES in order to make those few incidents seem resolved.

The reality of the situation is, however, that there was no problem with the RULES to begin with, just a problem with PEOPLE. Which you're going to get no matter what you do, so doing anything at all is just illogical.

IMO. Just saying...

#logic

I would have to agree with this one.  To me it almost sounds like gun control.  Hey lets make these things illegal and we won't have any more shootings.

That just made me realize how silly this whole situation is.

So all the mods/admins are essentially politicians, doing what politicians do best...

FIXING NON-EXISTENT PROBLEMS AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR FREEDOM!
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:38:50 by Computer-Lab in Basement »
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline The_Beast

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:39:04 »
I don't see what is really wrong with the classifieds (I quite like the current Laissez faire type classifieds).....


...seems like we're trying to fix a non existent problem

Well, you're a vendor. These changes are being made to try and protect buyers as best we can, without getting involved in individual disputes.

I don't think this has anything to do with me being a vendor, I'm still a part of this community. There are some things I don't like about the classifieds, but overall, I don't see a reason to change it based on my personal complaints

I hate to say it, but these rules are catering to the dumb. If you don't trust someone in the classifieds, then don't trade with them. If you get scammed, well, it's not GH's fault that you choose to trade with that person, it's all on you/the scammer.

It SUCKS when you get scammed, but ultimately, GH isn't forcing you to trade with someone and there are already some Paypal protections (PP seems to be the most common, just pay the extra 3% + $0.30)

But that's just my opinion.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:40:04 »
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...

We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:40:38 »


Come on guys stop horsing around.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:47:52 »
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...

We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.

With all due respect good sir, I reserve the right to voice my opinion. Whether or not you think that's helpful, is YOUR opinion. And you are entitled to it...

As it is, what good is a society in which voicing your opinions is discouraged? Seriously, if it's getting to the point where mods automatically dismiss any opinion that's not their own as "not helpful" then you might as well ban me right now.

Seriously. Do it.
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Offline damorgue

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 09:58:18 »
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...

We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.

Trying to mediate here: I think they are simply trying to voice the lack of reasoning behind these changes. The changes would probably be received better if each change had an explanation behind it as to what problem it aims to resolve. For instance, I don't see how many of these changes can really decrease the risk of scams and recent unpleasantness. I guess those events are what have sparked you to come up with these changes.

Offline Soarer

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:05:49 »
Make a lot of rule changes in one go, and you'll get a lot of dissenters!

I don't like having to dig into 'unified' sales threads to find out what is for sale, and it encourages rolling threads which just end up an unreadable mess. So that's a bad thing to make a rule, imo. With a rule against excessive bumping, I don't see the need for a rule limiting users to 2 current sales threads - just limit them to two bumps per day/whatever on all their sales threads combined.

Auctions... agreed, there's just no good way to run them in the forum format, since they become either secretive or very noisy.

Offers... debatable. I don't think it's an effective way to sell, but that's more advice I'd give to a seller than a rule I'd impose!

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:10:13 »
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...

We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.

Trying to mediate here: I think they are simply trying to voice the lack of reasoning behind these changes. The changes would probably be received better if each change had an explanation behind it as to what problem it aims to resolve. For instance, I don't see how many of these changes can really decrease the risk of scams and recent unpleasantness. I guess those events are what have sparked you to come up with these changes.

These rule changes are not a reaction to any event, recent or otherwise. They have needed to be addressed for quite a while now, and it's basically catch-up time. The "no auctions" rule is new, and needed to be addressed soon, so it made sense to include some common practice items that are widespread throughout internet forums, and should have been in place from the beginning.

Voicing your opinion that you don't agree with having ANY changes is okay, but you must realize that the rule changes are going to happen. This thread was created so we could get feedback from people about what issues they might have with the specific changes, and it has worked. Several people were vocally opposed to the "no cross-posting" rule, so it is being omitted. Trolling the moderators or saying that the new rules "cater to the dumb" is not helpful toward addressing these changes to the rules. If you have an issue with a rule change, please bring it up so it can be discussed.
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:40:27 »
There seem to be more misconceptions on this page.  What some of you are saying will lead to messy threads is actually subject to moderation.  If a thread does not have all the information in the first post or the title is outdated, or there are random updates in the middle of that thread--it's going to get moderated--as stated in the Rules.

The entirety of the post is Rules.  The "thread etiquette" section is just that--a title of a section.  This is why Classifieds Rules is in large bold text, and the rest are bullet points.

And finally, this is not us being fanciful for no good reason.  Many of the rules here are the same or similar to what other tech forums have.  They require more work on the part of people posting threads and on the part of moderators, but the goal is to have cleaner more readable Classifieds, instead of "Molly's Thread of Junk" followed by "Big Sale Here - Fred's WTB/WTS/WTT" with no indication of what's inside or what items look like, or what is really the expected price, or the fact that what's listed in the first post is not even available for sale as of 2 months ago--as updated on page 3.

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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:46:06 »
I've said this a few times but I almost guarantee most geekhackers who come here for the classifieds don't rad this section, can we get some sort of stickied link in the actual classifieds subforum to give this thread some visibility?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:48:44 »
I ... guarantee most geekhackers ... come here for the classifieds...

FTFY
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #77 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:50:45 »
A link from the Classifieds page to this thread has been added in a stickied announcement thread.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #78 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 10:51:57 »
I ... guarantee most geekhackers ... come here for the classifieds...

FTFY


Well someone has to buy our stuff we don't want anymore jd  :p

 
A link from the Classifieds page to this thread has been added in a stickied announcement thread.

Awesome! Thanks.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:21:42 »
Data. We need data. Why? Because you can't argue with facts...

We should add a survey to this thread to better assess the communities perspective on this situation.

I have a Google form already created, will gladly give it to the mod team if they wish to use it.
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Offline Norz

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:32:49 »
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.

Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:

I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).

It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.

Offline missalaire

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:47:03 »
Most of this looks fine besides this imo:

Please do not cross-post your sale/trade items here if you have already listed them on another website.

You should only list for sale or trade items that are already in your possession and include clear photographs of your items (in good light, no blurry night-time “potato shots”) along with your GeekHack.org user name and date the photograph was taken.

I've been working on getting my activity and posts up on [H]ardforums so I can sell some things there that haven't been selling here. I'd still like to be able to have them for sale here just in case there is interest. Seems a bit silly to lock it down to only one site.

Requiring a picture with timestamp and name just seems a bit much. We aren't Reddit. We're a community (for the most part) and most of the regulars aren't strangers to eachother in the way that most Redditors are. I can understand why you would want it done, but I feel like it should be optional or only a requirement for those who are new to selling and have under x number of transactions on Geekhack perhaps. I really like the way that [H]ardforums has things set up in their For Sale/Trade Forum and they don't seem to generally have very many problems come up.


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Offline riotonthebay

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:48:31 »
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.

Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:

I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).

It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.

First off, I'd encourage you to never ship something like a keyboard without accepting payment first. The proper course of action would be for the buyer to pay as goods/services on PayPal, and they could open a dispute if the keyboard never came.

Second, there are other venues in which you could sell your keyboard.

Third, GeekHack is not a marketplace; it's a community. Classifieds is just a perk.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:51:42 »
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.

Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:

I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).

It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.

If your in the EU you might have better luck at http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/, they have no classifieds rules as far as I know.

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:57:30 »
Melvang, CLiB, those posts are not helpful...

We live in societies with rules and laws. It's the same on this forum. The rule changes will be made, so if you have a specific problem with something, please address it.

I'm in agreement with Melvang, CLiB and Damorgue -- this is a solution in search of a problem. I respect everything you've done for the community jd, but just saying that societies have rules and laws, and therefore this development is correct is a non sequitur for me. I'm heartened to see that the restriction on posting in multiple forums is likely to be dropped, and that it was a result of people critiquing the proposed rule change. GH does not have the power (or the right!) to tell people what they can or cannot do off the forum.

To me, it seems that some people consider profit to just be dirty, and if less of it that occurs at GH, the better. That's a really negative attitude. As for auctions being banned -- who cares? The people who want to get the most for their keyboards when they're either moving on to another hobby, or more advanced level of this hobby, will just go somewhere else -- and GH will get what it wanted -- good and hard. Less traffic, and less keyboard-related gear staying in our community. Those hobbyists will simply go elsewhere, which (in my paranoid way) is probably exactly what some people at GH would prefer. Go away you evil money grubbers!

The one rule change that I really, really do like is the requirement of a photograph of the product you're selling. That's not so hard to do and it reduces non-fraudulent misunderstandings. I also think a heatware system baked into the forum is a good idea. It might also be a good idea to provide a basic bbcoded template for people who are putting up classified ads, listing things like: where they are willing to ship, pricing, other places where the item is listed, etc. -- to make it easier for them to comply with the new rules. Also, I like the legal language expressing caveat emptor, and the new classified posting requirement.

[sarcasm]
And I think it's so sweet that classified posters will be required to list the other forums they are listing their items. Please keep this rule! It will provide a high incentive for people to go to those other forums, where, presumably, the market is not so strictly regulated. If we make posting to classifieds at GH a tedious, awkward process that treats you like a potential scammer, expect less people to post in classifieds. They'll just post in those other places and skip GH altogether.
[/sarcasm]
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Offline Norz

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 11:58:53 »
Really don't like the 2 months before starting a thread rule.

Just enforce a strict posting etiquette, but the 2 months won't prevent any scam attempt. Let me explain you why this sucks, with my current case:

I ordered a WASD V2 keyboard with MX Blue. This is my first experience with MX Blue and sadly, it's not working out for me. It costed me a lot to get it, (shipping US > EU, Custom taxes etc) and I really need to sell it back asap to buy a new one. Sadly, with the new potential rules I won't be able to do it fast (whereas i'm currently grinding my way to 60 posts).

It makes no difference if I need 60 posts OR 2 months being around, since people don't know me here they'll ask me to send the keyboard out first, and then they'll pay me. Which is perfectly fine by me as long as the buyer is somewhat reputable. So what's the point preventing me to sell now ? Enforcing strict etiquette is one thing, but the change you're suggesting doesn't really bring anything good imo.

First off, I'd encourage you to never ship something like a keyboard without accepting payment first. The proper course of action would be for the buyer to pay as goods/services on PayPal, and they could open a dispute if the keyboard never came.

Second, there are other venues in which you could sell your keyboard.

Third, GeekHack is not a marketplace; it's a community. Classifieds is just a perk.

- Ive heard many sad stories of people scamming using paypal. You can rather easily open a dispute and win it EVEN if you received the goods. That's why I think it's much safer to sell to someone based on his reputation, than accepting payment first and then shipping to someone that's completely unknown on the forum.

- True, but there aren't MANY places for this, especially if you say the board naked, without key caps.

- Again, true, but Classifieds is whats this thread is about, so my post kinda makes sense here. Imho.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:20:19 »
Will there be any changes to vendor rules and/or possible group buy rules?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:23:09 »
Will there be any changes to vendor rules and/or possible group buy rules?

Not in this thread there won't be.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:24:05 »
About the profiteering, say someone makes caps, we have quite a few up and coming cap makers. How would that apply to them?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:26:03 »
About the profiteering, say someone makes caps, we have quite a few up and coming cap makers. How would that apply to them?


Where in the proposed rules changes does it address profiteering?

Oh, you mean this?

Quote
Profit
The Classifieds subforum is not provided for the purposes of a resale outlet.  With that said, we cannot monitor everyone’s transaction history effectively, especially outside of GeekHack.org, so some profitable sales / trades will occur.  It is up to the buyers to do their due diligence in researching appropriate prices and deciding if something is worth the asking price.  If you are uncertain about an item’s worth, please ask in this thread.

I guess I don't understand your question...
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:27:46 by jdcarpe »
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Offline demik

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:28:47 »
Will there be any changes to vendor rules and/or possible group buy rules?

I vote for actually following them and not turning a blind eye for certain members.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:29:49 »
About the profiteering, say someone makes caps, we have quite a few up and coming cap makers. How would that apply to them?


Where in the proposed rules changes does it address profiteering?

Oh, you mean this?

Quote
Profit
The Classifieds subforum is not provided for the purposes of a resale outlet.  With that said, we cannot monitor everyone’s transaction history effectively, especially outside of GeekHack.org, so some profitable sales / trades will occur.  It is up to the buyers to do their due diligence in researching appropriate prices and deciding if something is worth the asking price.  If you are uncertain about an item’s worth, please ask in this thread.

I guess I don't understand your question...

I thought there was something in there about no profiteering perhaps my reading comprehension sucks or a mod edit took place.

Offline The_Beast

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:30:19 »
Trolling the moderators or saying that the new rules "cater to the dumb" is not helpful toward addressing these changes to the rules. If you have an issue with a rule change, please bring it up so it can be discussed.

That's just my opinion, which I hoped might lead to a discussion....

I agree with some of the new thread etiquette but others are going a bit far. I hate taking picture and I'd like to think that others can take my word on the condition of an item (the whole community trust thing), so I don't see why items now require a photo. Also, the no discussion should be up the the original poster, some people don't mind a little OT in a sale thread.

And if these rules really are to protect the buyer, then why is the GH "Caveat emptor" way of thinking in place. It kinda contradicts "buyers beware" but at the same time have rules making it harder to sell things/protecting sellers. If it was truly caveat emptor, the buyer should be making all the choices, not the opinion of a mod or some kind of rules.

Also, for the no auctions, does that mean charity auctions as well? 
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:32:31 »
Also, for the no auctions, does that mean charity auctions as well? 

Yes.
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:34:14 »
Also, for the no auctions, does that mean charity auctions as well? 

Yes.

While I don't agree with the no auction rule, at least it's not making exceptions for certain cases (even if they help the community).
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Offline missalaire

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:39:00 »
For auctions, why not just allow a separate Ebay Auctions only subforum?
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:40:27 »
For auctions, why not just allow a separate Ebay Auctions only subforum?

Already in the rules:

  • Auctions
    Conducting auctions is not condoned in the Classifieds subforum.  We lack appropriate software infrastructure and legal means to maintain auctions and ensure fair terms for everyone.  If you wish to sell your items as auctions, please use appropriate sites, such as eBay.  You may link your external auctions in the “External Auctions” subforum (to be added).

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:42:57 »
I thought there was something in there about no profiteering perhaps my reading comprehension sucks or a mod edit took place.

It was discussed, and fact is that we can't effectively moderate and regulate who is making how much profit.  A lot of times we don't actually know how much a person paid.  In some cases you might, because a person might be reselling something that everyone's seen them purchase from another sale.  But in general, we can't make a blanket rule about restricting profiteering.  The best judges are the buyers.  If something looks too expensive--don't buy it :)  Unless you have carts of gold, in which case you probably don't care anyway.

P.S.: I'd like to remind to all the argumentative types that these rules can be summed up as follows:

* cleaning up threads with better formatting and explicit photographs and prices, and keeping them up-to-date
* no auctions conducted on the site
* new cut-off rules for people to post threads in the Classifieds

That's mostly all there is to them.
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:45:08 by Photoelectric »
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:45:40 »
I thought there was something in there about no profiteering perhaps my reading comprehension sucks or a mod edit took place.

It was discussed, and fact is that we can't effectively moderate and regulate who is making how much profit.  A lot of times we don't actually know how much a person paid.  In some cases you might, because a person might be reselling something that everyone's seen them purchase from another sale.  But in general, we can't make a blanket rule about restricting profiteering.  The best judges are the buyers.  If something looks too expensive--don't buy it :)  Unless you have carts of gold, in which case you probably don't care anyway.

P.S.: I'd like to remind to all the argumentative types that these rules can be summed up as follows:

* cleaning up threads with better formatting and explicit photographs and prices, and keeping them up-to-date
* no auctions conducted on the site
* new cut-off rules for people to post threads in the Classifieds

That's mostly all there is to them.

But will it be considered threadcrapping if we point out something is over priced?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Upcoming changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 12:46:54 »
But will it be considered threadcrapping if we point out something is over priced?

Actually, that is more relevant than all the useless "GLWS" posts.
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