Author Topic: I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge  (Read 36102 times)

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Offline ch_123

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 16:58:07 »
Quote from: ripster;169844
I told my wife I can't buy one yet until I irritate everyone at Geekhack for a few more months.

This is infinitely better than DIP switches.


Or foam.

Offline Input Nirvana

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 17:50:37 »
Only read this if you want to hear a positive review of the iPad!

Just got home with my day using an iPad. Pretty happy, it has made working considerably faster and much more convenient.

Today: Driving to 3 locations, 5 hours, 2 informal meetings. 60 degrees and sunny, a beautiful day.
-Sending/receiving a couple short emails. Fine, no big deal. iPhone can do that. No time saving.
-Wrote one 700 word email detailing a problem, cause/effect, solution and cost. Was able to do much more easily and discretely than with laptop at location. Not using laptop was FANTASTIC! Saved about 10 mins and was easier to do.
-Accessed emailed photos to show obscure details while standing in an office meeting after walking 20 mins. Saved time and hassle. IPhone pics would be too small, carrying a laptop and jamming it into someones face to show the issue will cost them extra, not a good option. Settled issue immediately and stopped argument. Got increased cost approval while everyone was present and avoided 2 days of emails/finger-pointing.
-Received and reviewed 7 page insurance fax and then made phone call for on-the-spot approval (while standing!!). Not using laptop was FANTASTIC! Saved 10 mins and hassle.  
-Used calendar, extremely nice visually, no biggie. It's a calendar. No time saving, not easier or harder.

My results were:
Time saving
Easier and more convenient
Much faster and easier access to information

For me, I consider this a business tool. I don't need it in office or at home, or when "working" at a static location. But, when mobile, it is very valuable, and fills a gap. I think using it today actually made me money. That's all it needs to get my vote. It may be lacking this or that, but I'm looking for what it DOES, not what it doesn't do.

I give this unit up in about 10 days. It will be missed. :(
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #52 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 18:19:39 »
What are you, an attorney?????

:)
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Offline Manyak

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 19:18:14 »
Quote from: ch_123;169601
The reason why it has no flash is because of a deliberate decision to eschew it in favor of HTML5. Hardware reasons are invalid, because devices using relatively similar hardware such as the Nokia N900 can do it.


That's just total bull**** from them and you know it. They didn't put flash on the iphone when it came out YEARS ago, and there was no such thing as HTML5 then. It's because they know that flash based webapps (and games) can completely eat into their itunes sales.
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Offline kishy

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 19:33:26 »
Apple (actually, most companies I guess) doesn't do anything in the interest of customers...they do everything to improve their image and margins, and put a positive spin on it for the customer in the end.

I have no belief, nor will I ever have any belief, that Apple put Flash out of the picture because they're trying to encourage the adoption of HTML5 far and wide (though their goal may be to diminish the popularity of Flash in the process, I doubt there is any intention to actually popularize HTML5). That's just the convenient spin they can throw on it, nothing more and nothing less I am sure.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #55 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 19:55:56 »
Somewhat mildly interesting side note...

6 people in room
1 didn't utter a single word, as far as I could tell, she had no vocal chords,
1 person knew what it was and had no interest, absolutely zero,
1 person didn't know what it was and had no interest...flatline,
1 person knew what it was and was very interested (a screamer!) "Look...at...THAT!!" (Webwit and Ripster got that dead on right),
1 person did not know what it was and was very interested (he might be at an Apple store right now),
I was the 6th person.

The 2 peeps that had a lot of interest, also could potentially have a LOT of use for it (they do in/out of office mobile work). As for the other 3, I have no idea if they might have that same need, but the non-talker is definitely full-time office. Maybe we mostly get excited when it's something we actually need or can use?

I probably only would "need" it 3-6 days a month max, depending on time of year, type of projects, number of employees, many variables. I doubt I will buy my own unit in the near future, but that pretty much depends on my need more than my want.

I want to see how it functions as an e-reader.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 April 2010, 19:59:41 by input nirvana »
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Offline datamonger128

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 20:37:56 »
iPad is dumb.  It's just a giant iPod touch with the ability to have a custom background without the use of jailbreaking.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 05 April 2010, 21:55:04 »
I'm following this thread because I have a possible interest in the iPad and I have the use of one for a week or so to see if I want to buy one (3G model). I'll actually only "use" this unit maybe for 2 days for work in the next week. I'm wondering how many people that have posted here have tried it? I was hoping for some "non-magazine-writer reviews" or insight for something (good/bad) I may not know. That's why I gave my silly, amateur, touchy-feely opinions.

Another observation I neglected to mention earlier. The touchscreen allows for very rapid input and is highly responsive. Using photos or itunes is a different and improved experience. (more pluses!). Crazy Apple didn't add a camera and iChat. (negatives!!) The iPad is pretty small.

Geekhack Note:  The iPad keypad has no tactile feedback, and I don't think the layout can be changed. :)
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 April 2010, 22:00:22 by input nirvana »
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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 00:58:12 »
Quote from: input nirvana;169867
-Accessed emailed photos to show obscure details while standing in an office meeting after walking 20 mins. Saved time and hassle. IPhone pics would be too small, carrying a laptop and jamming it into someones face to show the issue will cost them extra, not a good option. Settled issue immediately and stopped argument. Got increased cost approval while everyone was present and avoided 2 days of emails/finger-pointing.

That's interesting. What do you think it was about having a tablet computer that affected the situation? I'm very interested in how tablet computers can possibly affect social dynamics with associates and acquaintances.

I started to become really interested in the iPad a few days ago when I started to think about given that I'm a total tech head, I rarely carry a laptop around with me and I try to not use my Blackberry when someone else is around me. The weight of the laptop is surely a factor, but so are social dynamics. I feel that both devices are disruptive to social interaction, but for different reasons. A laptop makes me feel like I just put a wall up between me and another person I'm meeting with and a PDA makes me feel like I just entered a tunnel in which the only thing that exists for the moment is me and the device I'm focusing all my attention on.

There's a physical barrier in one and a psychological barrier in the other, yet arguably concentrating on jotting notes on a notepad when I'm talking to someone doesn't feel as disruptive though it's arguably just as attention intensive to write, talk, and listen at the same time. I wonder if the form factor of a device either affects how you focus your attention or your body language and how others perceive your actions.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 April 2010, 01:01:08 by hyperlinked »
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #59 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 01:13:47 »
You hit the nail on the head. Form factor is an issue. When someone is looking at their phone, it's sort of personal, room just for one. People understand that. The laptop creates a wall, and is a headache if you are moving around, it's prohibitive. The iPad is actually pretty small, but it's ALL screen. Even the thin-ness helps. Weird, I know. Also, with body language, I included the others in the office without the need to do the "laptop huddle" which no one cares for. It was a real surprise benefit and success, I'm still thinking about it.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #60 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 01:22:57 »
Also, in this instance, which was looking at time stamped photos to prove what was/wasn't done on a particular date, I was able to hand over the tablet across the desk like a photo or sheet of paper. No keyboard for the person to be careful of, easy to show a 3rd person down the line.
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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 01:36:08 »
Quote from: input nirvana;169966
You hit the nail on the head. Form factor is an issue. When someone is looking at their phone, it's sort of personal, room just for one. People understand that. The laptop creates a wall, and is a headache if you are moving around, it's prohibitive. The iPad is actually pretty small, but it's ALL screen. Even the thin-ness helps. Weird, I know. Also, with body language, I included the others in the office without the need to do the "laptop huddle" which no one cares for. It was a real surprise benefit and success, I'm still thinking about it.

I think the laptop huddle is less of an issue when you're around people you know well or have "permission" to enter someone's personal space. With people you know, it's still a little awkward, but it doesn't setup a loaded social situation. You just find it difficult to switch your attention between the monitor and your friend so you can be fully attentive.

With acquaintances and business contacts, it creates some interesting situations. A number of time I've met with new clients and there comes a sometimes awkward moment (especially if the other person is female) in which we need to look at something together on a computer, but the other person is sitting across from me so I need to invite that person over to my side of the table to look at something or I put the laptop sideways between us.

It's obvious what the challenges are with putting the laptop sideways. Now you're all distracted and fudging with something that's very hard to use.

Bringing the person across the table to your side seems like the ideal thing to do, but then you're done looking at what you're looking at and you find yourself sitting side by side. When you're around an acquaintance or someone you need to have a business conversation with that can be awkward. The conversation usually doesn't end the second you're done with the laptop so what does the other person do? Immediately scurry back to the other side like you're radioactive and risk offending you. Do you both stay there and crane your necks so you can talk without getting into each other's personal space? Does the other person eventually slink away only to have to come back over again later?

Of course I'm saying all of this as an American and I'm completely aware that social conventions may dictate completely different behavior elsewhere, but I suspect that the potential presence of a barrier or the splitting of one's attention will still cause friction. (Totally random tidbit from some study I did of hospital design in my past life... in some cultures, doctors exam rooms are built intentionally smaller because it's considered rude to be not almost in the face of your patient.)

I remember hearing some social researcher some years ago on the radio talk about his study of how people perceive public cell phone use. A lot of people perceive it to be rude or annoying when a total stranger is using a cell phone in public, but yet don't feel at all slighted when that person is with someone else and having a conversation. I forgot what the rationale was. I think it was something to the effect that he thought we're hard wired to shun people who have their attention focused outside of our shared space even when there's no relationship between you and the other person or very little potential for interaction. Someone talking to a friend is still part of your shared space. Someone on the phone is walking around in a sealed bubble and wants nothing to do with you or anyone else.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 April 2010, 02:01:52 by hyperlinked »
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Offline jimsage85

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 15:03:08 »
Hmmmm..Wifi connectivity issues anyone?
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Offline itlnstln

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 15:14:35 »
SPAMbot with a Yahoo account, hmmm...


Offline Rajagra

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 17:51:13 »
Quote from: ripster;170124
Hey, now we have APPLE HATE spambots!


There's an app for that.

Offline clickclack

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 06 April 2010, 19:14:59 »
Earlier I mentioned (in this thread) that I could see it being used as a portable portfolio and the more I think about it, I really like that idea! I don't think "I" would get an "ipad" for it (probably just a slate from someone or a tablet) but I am kinda digging that idea. However I think if you brandish an ipad to show a client/boss or potential one some work it would be more elegant and slick than a normal portfolio (even fancy ones).

I just looked up current tablet and slate pc's (not old or used ones), and I noticed the price difference between them and the ipad. Now I think the ipad is 1/2 the price for 1/2 the functionality? Which is not that bad of a thing.

I also just read a review from someone who acutally used the aftermarket pogo stylus for/from the iphone (the one I shunnnnned earlier for being horrid to use). Due to the larger screen it was nicer/easier to use, I thought that was good. But it was not ideal or even good, but it was more useable than on the iphone.

I also noticed how many other companies will be selling similar "slates" soon. I did find that to be reasurring =)
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Offline clickclack

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« Reply #66 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 01:26:45 »
Whooops! Silly me I guess I didn't really look up enough stuff when I did that tablet/slate search. There are a few that are about the same price as the ipad. The lenovo s10 3t seems very capable and costs about the same as the low end ipad. Each will do things the other may not do as well but really lenovo's idea pad looks impressive when you compare them. Wish it had pressure sensitivity though, oh well...
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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 01:53:28 »
Mmm, the Lenovo s10 3t looks good, but I'll want more than a 1.6Ghz Atom processor before I'd consider it. I already have a netbook with thsoe specs and it is SLOW.

I'm starting to be more aware of all the other tablet like devices out there. If software makers get off their arses and start to churn out quality Windows based tablet apps optimized for tablet devices, I think the biggest effect of the iPad will be its stimulus of the non-Apple tablet market.

I brought up the AOL phenomena earlier in this thread without realizing the total parallels it had with the Apple app store way of doing things. For a number of years, these closed systems were where all the action happened. Internet history has a funny way of following a pattern. I wonder if iPad = AOL 2010.

We don't have to look all the way back for that parallel though. Facebook kinda went through it too. Up until last year, it was intended to be a mostly closed system.
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Offline itlnstln

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 07:38:11 »
In an NPR piece, the commentator noted that there was a lot of interest from Realtors and photographers around using the iPad as a way to show pictures.  I thought that was a great use for the iPad, but other than just viewing a slide show of pics already on the device, I noted a major problem.  Through my experience buying/trying to sell a house, and looking for a photographer for the wedding I never had, most of those sites use Flash to display the pictures.  Well, you can see where the problem might be with that.


Offline itlnstln

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 09:33:25 »
Quote from: ripster;170295
Realtors know how to show JPEG pictures.  At 6% commission they aren't THAT dumb.

For their own listings, sure.  Not for others, though.


Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 09:37:39 »
Quote from: ripster;170295
And you CAN author with Adobe Flash Professional CS5 for the iPad.  April 12th.  This means Photoshop CS5 should be here soon.  Upgrade time for me even though I despise Photoshop's UI.

THAT is the April launch that I'm totally drooling over. Someone hand me a bib and a napkin!

From the features they previewed, it looks like CS5 is one of those releases that actually has useful new features as opposed to just an improved UI of the previous version. I just hope they didn't jack up the price 200%.
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #71 on: Wed, 07 April 2010, 09:57:55 »
I'm glad my e-mail address still points to a university domain.


Offline EverythingIBM

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 08 April 2010, 18:12:50 »
Quote from: ripster;170655

Apple Aperature included iPad support in their latest release.  Unforturnately I'm on Adobe Lightroom.  Wish these guys could just get along.


Adobe is the "new enemy" of Apple. First IBM, then microsoft, now the dreaded adobe. Although I think macromedia made flash a lot better (Adobe is just muddling it all up).

The iPad is nothing revolutionary. It's really dull, but the common mind is entertained by the media. It doesn't help that they're all meant to be thrown out when the battery dies: it's not built to last, to be repaired, or anything of the sort! I wouldn't buy a computer that was glued shut, restricted the OS, or disallowed me to explore its internals.
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Offline Rajagra

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 01:49:51 »
Quote from: ripster;170742
>
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">[/youtube]

Amazing how that kid was able to use the interface so well without any prior training. It's that intuitive.

Ignore the bit where she kept tapping to get a response and it failed. Doesn't prove it's a setup at all. Nosiree, she had no previous experience of this kind of interface at all, I totally believe that! :rolleyes:

EDIT> BS Confirmed. In true Apple advertising style, some steps were omitted, namely: "My daughter likes playing with my iPhone, but this was her very first encounter with an iPad"

EDIT2> Note the title: "A 2.5 Year-Old Has A First Encounter with An iPad". It's his daughter. He described her as an anomyous 2.5 year old. But he tells us the new toy is an iPad. He's more proud of his iPad than his daughter. Disturbing.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 02:02:11 by Rajagra »

Offline Rajagra

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 02:26:12 »
Bah! What happened to the good old days when kids were left in front of the TV as a substitute parent?

Offline hyperlinked

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« Reply #75 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 03:16:07 »
Quote from: Rajagra;170801
EDIT> BS Confirmed. In true Apple advertising style, some steps were omitted, namely: "My daughter likes playing with my iPhone, but this was her very first encounter with an iPad"

EDIT2> Note the title: "A 2.5 Year-Old Has A First Encounter with An iPad". It's his daughter. He described her as an anomyous 2.5 year old. But he tells us the new toy is an iPad. He's more proud of his iPad than his daughter. Disturbing.

LOL, not splitting hairs now are we? It's totally obvious the kid knew her way around an iPhone, but still impressive nonetheless.

It's a dirty secret, but putting your Apple device above your kids is something Apple asks its customers to do. Just play an Apple commercial backwards. It might be annoying played forward, but backwards it's just downright scary. Plus, the guy shooting the video is a Californian. We're barbarians. Especially those of us up north.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 03:18:37 by hyperlinked »
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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 03:19:55 »
Quote from: ripster;170804
BTW they didn't show the part where she tried the ALPS keyboard.  

She started crying uncontrollably at that point.


"WTF is this dad? Your promised me a TOPRE!"
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Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
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Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
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Offline didjamatic

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 08:43:11 »
Hmmm...

My 3 year old can connect RGB cables, power on a hacked Xbox, navigate menus to launch XBMC, navigate our network to load My Little Pony or any of hundreds of movie titles.  She is a whiz at countless Windows apps and games... and she can use paint.

My 5 year olds are on their second windows system, can use countless applications and if most adults saw them, they would be amazed.  Their latest game is Cargo Bridge from Limexgames - if you haven't tried Cargo Bridge, you will seriously love it.  It's addicting to see how inexpensive you can make a bridge.  And it teaches kids mechanics, physics and problem solving through trial and error, cause and effect.

Should I credit Microsoft for their being able to efficiently do what many adults can't?  Not on your life.  They pwn windows just as easily as an Ipad

Mac has done some clever marketing here.  They are user friendly, I don't doubt that.  But if the girl has spent countless hours on her mother's lap watching her work on the computer, it woudln't matter what OS she was using, she would be able to do the same in paint or gimp.

Now go try Cargo Bridge... unless you're on an ipad, they don't support flash do they? :)

« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 08:45:15 by didjamatic »
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Offline skcheng

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 09:05:21 »
I'm an Apple/PC guy.   So I'm not a fanboy exclusively one way or the other.   Yesterday, we went by the Apple store to purchase an IPad (sold out in Paramus, NJ) and hand some hands on fun with board.   My 10 yr. son (who has a MacBook Pro) immediately loved the IPad.  Then again, he loves his ITouch so I'm not surprised.  

It's a niche product and I think mainly for surfing the web and sharing photos and stuff.   It's very user friendly and I'm sure that Apple will get richer simply from the tons of Apps that can be downloaded for the device.   It's fast for most users and it's easy to pass around.  Not so with a laptop.....

I asked the salesperson there (usually quite knowledgeable at the Apple stores) and he said that they've had only one return out of all of the units sold??!!??   That's pretty good.  I figured a lot of people would find that it doesn't replace their IPhones and laptops and would return them.

My only real beef is with the super glossy screen.  In any sort of bright light, the reflections can be really distracting.  

Other than that, I'm happy with the product.   With 3G, it will be the ultimate brief case accessory.   Internet anywhere for only $14.99/mo.

skc

Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #79 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 09:15:33 »
Quote from: didjamatic;170852
Hmmm...

My 3 year old can connect RGB cables, power on a hacked Xbox, navigate menus to launch XBMC, navigate our network to load My Little Pony or any of hundreds of movie titles.


my neice at 3 years old could load her baby einstein dvd's into the player and turn on everything needed with the multifunction remote (something her 38 year old mother couldnt do).

No one taught her to do this, she just picked it up from watching us at some point.  Cute little monkey.  (Meanwhile my mom still doesnt know how to work the dvd player).

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Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 09:18:08 »
Quote from: didjamatic;170852
Hmmm...

Mac has done some clever marketing here.


have they though? I actually wonder about the wisdom of trying to get adults to be "proud" that they can do something a 3 year old can do. Is that really a source of pride?

yea, i know what point they're trying to get across with these ads, but I actually question the way apple "infantilizes adults".

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 09:21:43 »
Quote from: skcheng;170854


It's a niche product and I think mainly for surfing the web and sharing photos and stuff.   It's very user friendly and I'm sure that Apple will get richer simply from the tons of Apps that can be downloaded for the device.   It's fast for most users and it's easy to pass around.  Not so with a laptop.....


i do agree with that, btw. There's a lot about the way apple does things that bothers me, but to be honest my mom would love it too. For taht matter, like i said elsewhere, i wouldnt mind it as a bedside device. I rationalize this by saying its a niche product (which I think it is; in my view not a substitute for a laptop).

Of course part of the problem here is that I dont want to put in the time and effort to educate my mom on laptops. Handing her an ipad is a far easier solution for me. ;)  (So i guess i'm complicit in infantilizing her).

Quote

With 3G, it will be the ultimate brief case accessory. Internet anywhere for only $14.99/mo.

this is something i hope MS emulates -- the 3g prices for the ipad are actually affordable (even if the device itself isnt). As I understand it, you can actually have a "per use" 3g plan with it - no monthly, pay a small fee (like a a buck or two) "per use" if you want.  I could be wrong but my ipad-owning friend told me something along these lines. I thought a "per use" plan was a brilliant idea for the 3g model, for those who dont want an on going monthly (or those who expect to mostly use its wifi).
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 09:27:38 by wellington1869 »

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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 10:10:19 »
Quote from: wellington1869;170859
I rationalize this by saying its a niche product (which I think it is; in my view not a substitute for a laptop).
I think Steve Jobs himself has even said so much... that it's not supposed to replace a laptop.

Here's something to remember. It's easy to look at the iPad or anything that Apple makes as tech for dummies. They sure like to promote that image (though in more glamorous terms), but a lot of stuff run on Apple hardware is anything but simple.

It's all about the apps. The number of buttons on your computer may be one, a thousand, or none, but the second you're running a complex program on it, how much you love or hate the OS is irrelevant.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of us here had kids or were related to kids who really knew their way around a desktop. Most of us here are gear heads and our genes are no doubt partly responsible for that. That doesn't mean every kid will be like that nor should it mean that every kid should be like that. Your brain is a finite resource. A lot of people are going to be far better off focusing all their energies on making music, developing world champion athletic skills, or shaping iron rather than keeping their PC maintenance skills up to date.

Besides, simplicity doesn't always make the world smaller. If simplicity gives someone the confidence to explore a little farther than he or she would otherwise, you can't really say it's a constraint.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 10:26:37 by hyperlinked »
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Offline skcheng

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 10:29:08 »
Quote from: hyperlinked;170869
I think Steve Jobs himself has even said so much... that it's not supposed to replace a laptop.

Here's something to remember. It's easy to look at the iPad or anything that Apple makes as tech for dummies. They sure like to promote that image (though in more glamorous terms), but a lot of stuff run on Apple hardware is anything but simple.

It's all about the apps. The number of buttons on your computer may be one, a thousand, or none, but the second you're running a complex program on it, how much you love or hate the OS is irrelevant.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of us here had kids or were related to kids who really knew their way around a desktop. Most of us here are gear heads and our genes are no doubt partly responsible for that. That doesn't mean every kid will be like that nor should it mean that every kid should be like that. Your brain is a finite resource. A lot of people are going to be far better off focusing all their energies on making music, developing world champion athletic skills, or shaping iron rather than keeping their PC maintenance skills up to date.

It takes all types.



Yes, and I think that's the beauty of Apple.   While I don't disagree with Welly, I do think that Apple lets you forget about the hardware and concentrate instead on the software.   Turn the thing on and it works.    Setting up two IMacs at my office were simplicity itself.   An ultra cool power cord and one power button.  That's all anyone needs to do to get up and running.  

So what if Apple doesn't play well with printers or non-Apple software.   So what if the warranty sucks without purchasing additional Apple Care.   They aren't prone to viruses and they've proven themselves to be reliable.   And the screens are really excellent ....   You win some and you lose some.  

skc

Offline itlnstln

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #84 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 10:49:29 »
That's what Palm thought.


Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #85 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 11:11:57 »
well at some point in the 90's apple whole heartedly embraced the "appliance model", which wont suit old-timer geeks very well but will definitely capture the non-geek market (which is the much, much bigger market out there.)
Something cory doctorow, an old time apple geek, laments here.
But as a result, yea apple is going to crush MS going forward. For better or worse. I agree that simplicity isnt all bad even for geeks, but what I worry about is the fate of geeky tinkerers like me. I hope there will always be someone out there making open hw and sw for people to mod at will. I guess I keep hoping for some kind of utopian happy medium between open moddability and security and ease of use. Reality is far messier though.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #86 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 11:32:44 »
Quote from: wellington1869;170890
For better or worse. I agree that simplicity isnt all bad even for geeks, but what I worry about is the fate of geeky tinkerers like me. I hope there will always be someone out there making open hw and sw for people to mod at will.

Woo hooo! I really don't think you have anything to worry about.  Windows based PCs rule the world and that probably won't change anytime soon. If a hole is torn in the fabric of the universe and Apple-style hardware/software becomes the norm, either they'll allow for more tinkering or someone else will make a mint by being the anti-Apple.

If there was no massive Wintel juggernaut, a marketing department in Cupertino, CA that wants you to believe its products will simplify your tech life would have little leverage. If the roles were reversed, Microsoft might be the one settling into the one size fits all illusion. The simplicity value proposition has little value if there's nothing to compare it against.

I don't think tinkerers have anything to be worried about. Even if your worst nightmare comes true, people find ways to mod anything, a jailbroken version of everything exists, and entropy does not lose cage matches.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 11:38:15 by hyperlinked »
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Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 11:50:17 »
well maybe i'm looking too far ahead. But for instance, the new win7 phone doesnt have user-replaceable batteries. Something that MS clearly took from the apple model. In other ways I've read MS executives saying that apple got it right in pursuing the appliance model. I'd rather that MS tried to create its own market than try to beat apple at its own game (there's no way MS can do that; no one can).

Similarly i wonder how long the corporate world can remain immune to appliances. At my school faculty are switching in droves to apples (for better or worse). Can corporations be that far behind? There's talk about the iphone being a viable replacement for blackberries as blackberry contracts begin to expire. There were some stories on huffingtonpost.com along these lines.

but yea, i'm probably worrying about nothing; if MS destroys itself by trying to ape apple, android/google OS will probably try to take its place.  I always thought MS at least tried to find a middle ground between apple and linux (closed and open). I hope it doesnt abandon that attempt, but market forces may decide this for them.

btw, i own both an ibook and a dell, just fyi.

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Offline itlnstln

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 12:16:36 »
Quote from: wellington1869;170908
well maybe i'm looking too far ahead. But for instance, the new win7 phone doesnt have user-replaceable batteries. Something that MS clearly took from the apple model.

That was a prototype.  The WinMo7 specs don't specify one way or the other how manufacturers can implement battery installations.  Sure the proto used did not have a user-replaceable battery, but when HTC, Motorola, etc. begin releasing phones, they may or may not have a user-replaceable battery; it's up to the manufacturers' discretion.


Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 12:20:34 »
Quote from: itlnstln;170921
That was a prototype.  The WinMo7 specs don't specify one way or the other how manufacturers can implement battery installations.  Sure the proto used did not have a user-replaceable battery, but when HTC, Motorola, etc. begin releasing phones, they may or may not have a user-replaceable battery; it's up to the manufacturers' discretion.


i see what you mean. but then i hope all those manufacturers dont ape the appliance model. I like being able to change my own batteries; i dont think as an adult i should be forced to pay $100 at the genius bar for some 16 year old kid to do it for me ;)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline itlnstln

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 12:24:22 »
I'm looking for big things from WinMo7.  I really like WebOS on my Palm, but the hardware is underpowered, and I don't think they will be around when I get my new phone later this year.  I am not very impressed with the iPhone OS.  That, and the iPhone is not an option on Sprint.  Android will be nice, too, but we'll have to see what hardware Sprint offers later this year.


Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 12:41:40 »
Quote from: itlnstln;170928
I'm looking for big things from WinMo7.  I really like WebOS on my Palm, but the hardware is underpowered, and I don't think they will be around when I get my new phone later this year.  I am not very impressed with the iPhone OS.  That, and the iPhone is not an option on Sprint.  Android will be nice, too, but we'll have to see what hardware Sprint offers later this year.


if i were in the market for a smartphone today i'd seriously consider the android i guess. Palm on verizon by the way has an amazing deal right now but prolly they're going out of business soon (at least the rumors in the business press keep saying that, if they dont find a buyer soon). Fantastic price and features though.

yea winmo7 is getting good reviews for a change. nice to see MS get off their asses.

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Offline hyperlinked

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 12:57:46 »
Quote from: wellington1869;170925
i dont think as an adult i should be forced to pay $100 at the genius bar for some 16 year old kid to do it for me ;)

I don't think the visit to the Genius bar is the problem. Of course you can change your own batteries, but you just can't swap in a new battery if you're out on the trail and need about 4 hours of juice.

I don't think the no removable batteries thing is some evil trick to make you subservient to 16 yo's at the Genius bar. Take a look at how they managed to jam a 10+ hour battery into the iPad:

iPad Test Notes: Battery Life (Gizmodo)
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 13:00:16 by hyperlinked »
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Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
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Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 13:00:17 »
as much as i like my sony e-ink reader and its features...  and even tho i'm sure i wont like the glossy screen and 1.5lb weight of the ipad-as-reader... I cant deny ipad-as-reader is something to marvel at.  Its liquid.

My favorite feature is the way you can hold the page as you turn it (and see the text on the reverse side):

>
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">[/youtube]

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

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Offline Rajagra

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 13:11:05 »
I'm no tree hugger, but even I can see there's a huge problem looming with the 'appliance' model of pumping out gadgets that become obsolete within months and aren't designed for continuous use (read: able to be repaired for less than it costs to replace.) We have this situation already with mobile phones, and it's spreading to, well just about everything we buy.
 
My generation (people 40+) has been constantly browbeaten for wasting the world's resources, but consumerism is rising exponentially. Young people don't need to worry about the world we leave behind for them. They are going to do an infinitely better job of ruining the planet than we ever could.

Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 15:20:22 »
Quote from: Rajagra;170953
I'm no tree hugger, but even I can see there's a huge problem looming with the 'appliance' model of pumping out gadgets that become obsolete within months


This is a good point... whatever trees are saved with ebooks, that benefit is  offset with more e-waste in the landfills. E-books are the future though, even with the pollution and censorship concerns and licensing battles. It'll all come to a head at some point with a rash of lawsuits probably.

Quote

Young people don't need to worry about the world we leave behind for them. They are going to do an infinitely better job of ruining the planet than we ever could.

i have a theory that the human species basically peaked between 1950 and 2000 in terms of quality of life. Its all downhill from here on so many levels.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 15:31:35 »
Quote from: ripster;170995
You guys are real downers.


hey, rejoice, you were one of the lucky few humans to have caught some part of that peak :)  Thats the way i see it...;) When I die on my deathbed i'll be like "good luck, suckas!!!" ;-D  haha.

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Offline ch_123

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 09 April 2010, 15:52:53 »
Quote from: ripster;170995
You guys are real downers.

I don't know about the US, but over here if you called someone a downer, you'd probably get a rather hard thump.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 April 2010, 15:56:09 by ch_123 »

Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #98 on: Mon, 12 April 2010, 11:20:04 »
The G-Pad?

>
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">
[/youtube]

article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/12/google-tablet-pc-details_n_533860.html

Also MS's upcoming courier looks neater and neater:

>
type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385">
[/youtube]
article: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/

The more competition, the merrier, i say.

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3

Offline wellington1869

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I'm Coming Off the Fence. The iPad Will Be Huge
« Reply #99 on: Mon, 12 April 2010, 12:08:45 »
Quote from: ripster;171605

Of course this is all concept junk.  By the time it ships Apple will be onto Rev 3 of their product.


true, but by then i might be ready to buy something ;-)

"Blah blah blah grade school blah blah blah IBM PS/2s blah blah blah I like Model Ms." -- Kishy

using: ms 7000/Das 3