War on Helvetica..

[tp4tissue]

Helvetica is ultra-uniform, too uniform.  THUS, reducing its legibility

Using it on a logo is standard because of that uniformity and logos are usually written really BIG.

Logos are also very short, so it takes only a short time to read, even if the legibility is low.


We read partially by recognizing the shape and size of words.

In longer lines of text in Helvetica, because various key letters look so similar, it becomes harder to make out small differences. This greatly increases our decode time.


Looking at the word “because” in Helvetica,

it’s  b – circle – circle – a-u-s – circle ,   

in Segoe UI,

it’s more clearly  b – circle - semi,circle – a-u-s – circle


--opening on the [ e ] in Segoe UI is also wider, making it less similar to [ o ]


In Helvetica, the lowercase [ i ] and [ l ]   are exactly the same height,  jill, illness, I’ll. 

Capital [ I ] also looks exactly like lower case l.


Not saying Segoe UI is perfect,  but it is far improved in terms of legibility.. an optimization of function, not a give-in to mere aesthetics..


Similar to flatbed keyboards,  Helvetica is uniform, ubiquitous, and engrained in us all..

Similar to Segoe UI,   the Ergodox is superior in terms of FUNCTION….



Only you can stop flat keyboards... fight helvetica



// This is not an Ergodox thread,  All hail mighty Egdx!!

[Matt3o]

I agree on everything apart from Segoe being a viable alternative. I hate that font. Seriously.

[sth]

this is a stupid war. let's fight a war on topre prices so you have less to complain about other peoples' keyboards

[vivalarevolución]

Typewriter font should be standard.  because retro is cool.

[hwood34]

Typewriter font should be standard.  because retro is cool.

And it's everyone favorite essay font

[tp4tissue]

this is a stupid war. let's fight a war on topre prices so you have less to complain about other peoples' keyboards

Key switches are irrelevant...

Layout is more important... 

[Matt3o]

http://terminus-font.sourceforge.net/ is your master

[sth]

this is a stupid war. let's fight a war on topre prices so you have less to complain about other peoples' keyboards

Key switches are irrelevant...

Layout is more important... 

keyswitches are absolutely relevant if you're talking about ergonomics.

[tp4tissue]

this is a stupid war. let's fight a war on topre prices so you have less to complain about other peoples' keyboards

Key switches are irrelevant...

Layout is more important... 

keyswitches are absolutely relevant if you're talking about ergonomics.

I've found that I can overcome problems that result from keyswitches by altering my technique..

Things like knowing when to stop pressing the keys, and taking note to apply minimal pressure..


But for layout issues.. I really can't overcome some of these problems.   For example.. I can't shrink my shoulder width to fit a flat qwerty keyboard..   so I have to scrunch them..    Done it for years.. I refuse to go back..

For my wrists, without the tenting like on the Egdx, there's really no way to comfortably position them on a flat keyboard, because in neutral-wrist-position... I would be coming at the keys @ a 45* angle.. POSSIBLE, but not practical whatsoever.

[tp4tissue]

I agree on everything apart from Segoe being a viable alternative. I hate that font. Seriously.

Why h8?   do you have a particular reason?


I use Segoe as a comparison, because it fixes the legibility issue.. There are other typefaces with similar fixes..   

[Matt3o]

I agree on everything apart from Segoe being a viable alternative. I hate that font. Seriously.

Why h8?   do you have a particular reason?

it looks like **** on linux

[sth]

I agree on everything apart from Segoe being a viable alternative. I hate that font. Seriously.

Why h8?   do you have a particular reason?

it looks like **** on linux

it looks like ****

[nubbinator]

Why do you all hate Wes Anderson so?

[demik]

Watching wes anderson at coachella while typing in helvetica. Hipster dreaming.

[sth]

Watching wes anderson at coachella while typing in helvetica. Hipster dreaming.

with a typewriter

[demik]

While eating free range chicken and drinking microbrews

[sth]

While eating free range chicken and drinking microbrews

wearing raw denim

/snap

[demik]

Did we just describe Jwaz?

[sth]

Did we just describe Jwaz?

OH DIP

in all fairness my jeans are way skinnier than his. just not raw.

[oscillik]

Wes Anderson uses Futura, not Helvetica...

[esoomenona]

I would take a serif on uppercase I for differentiation between lowercase l anyday. I have trouble with Roboto in this regard as well. There is a very slight height difference, with the lowercase l being a bit taller, but I have to stare and compare either one to other letters.

[tp4tissue]

I would take a serif on uppercase I for differentiation between lowercase l anyday. I have trouble with Roboto in this regard as well. There is a very slight height difference, with the lowercase l being a bit taller, but I have to stare and compare either one to other letters.

Yea. also the Helvetica Q is no good..  the squiggle needs to be larger.. 

I didn't know they made helvetica typewriters.

[keymaster]

All hail Century Gothic! Down with the helvetica bourgeoisie!

[sth]

[davkol]

Helvetica, due to its original use in ads, is a conformist font. The free men use MS Comic Sans...

Okay, maybe I've gone to far.

[demik]

Rather be thought a fool than use comic sans and remove all doubt.

[hashbaz]

Hating Comic Sans is now as tired as using it.

And soon pointing this out will be just as tired.

[noisyturtle]

I like Helvetica, don't mind Comic Sans. If that bothers you, your priorities in life are ****ed beyond repair.

[davkol]

BTW anyone play Type:Rider? It's on Humble Bundle right now.

[eth0s]

Courier now.  Courier tomorrow.  Courier forever.

All the old IBM Selectric typewriters came with default Courier typeballs. 

Grandpa typed all his missives in Courier (on 24lb paper), so I don't see no reason why we need to change now.

Courier is serifed, monospaced, easy-to-read, and non-kerned.  Why did we ever need any other font?

[noisyturtle]

Wasn't there already a thread about fonts? Anywhoo, everyone knows Garamond is the best font ever made and also sometimes Inconsolata depending on what you're working on. Courier is good for script writing (in fact, some places won't even look at your script unless it's formatted and in Courier.)

[rowdy]

There are way too many fonts around.  After a while they all look the same to me anyway.

[tp4tissue]

Wasn't there already a thread about fonts? Anywhoo, everyone knows Garamond is the best font ever made and also sometimes Inconsolata depending on what you're working on. Courier is good for script writing (in fact, some places won't even look at your script unless it's formatted and in Courier.)

I don't think you'd compare garamond to helvetica or segoe ui, since that has serifs..   

I've always felt most serifs are unnecessary..  and they should only be placed on letters that are difficult to distinguish, like capital I vs lowercase l..


It should always be Function first..

[tp4tissue]

There are way too many fonts around.  After a while they all look the same to me anyway.

achmm.... typefaces, not fonts... 

[rowdy]

There are way too many typefaces around.  After a while they all look the same to me anyway.

[daerid]

On the web I prefer Verdana. Much more readable. Excluding that I prefer the Liberation Sans font, and Source Code Pro for monospace.

[tricheboars]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/mar/31/changing-font-to-garamond-save-us-370m

i like a few others in this thread really like the look of old vintage typewriter typefaces like courier.  i am currently writing all the thank you letters from my wedding with an old IBM Selectric III and it is the bees knees. 

[paicrai]

I like Sans Serif.

[tp4tissue]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/mar/31/changing-font-to-garamond-save-us-370m

i like a few others in this thread really like the look of old vintage typewriter typefaces like courier.  i am currently writing all the thank you letters from my wedding with an old IBM Selectric III and it is the bees knees. 

Here's the thing.. You're having fun, sure.. that's fine, but  would you say you're making an objective evaluation of the typeface in that case...

[tp4tissue]

I like Sans Serif.

To me..

Serif words look like --- Trees

San Serif words look like --- Bubbles

[Malphas]

Hating Comic Sans is now as tired as using it.

And soon pointing this out will be just as tired.

This. Also, I love to inappropriately use Comic Sans every chance I get.

[Linkbane]

Holy, you're right. I just see 'bocoose' when the brightness on my iPad isn't really high..
CODE recall time.

[tricheboars]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/mar/31/changing-font-to-garamond-save-us-370m

i like a few others in this thread really like the look of old vintage typewriter typefaces like courier.  i am currently writing all the thank you letters from my wedding with an old IBM Selectric III and it is the bees knees. 

Here's the thing.. You're having fun, sure.. that's fine, but  would you say you're making an objective evaluation of the typeface in that case...

Show Image

nah i have loved courier long before i knew it came from typewriters.

i loved it back in highschool because it made all your essays look longer.

[oscillik]

HHKB font = Helvetica

[rowdy]

Surprising that Microsoft keyboards don't use Comic Sans.

[tp4tissue]

Surprising that Microsoft keyboards don't use Comic Sans.

Comic Sans.. 

I find it quite legible, no opinion on it besides that.. it was designed to mimic handwriting.. 

In fact, I'd think if anyone's handwriting was nearly as uniform as comic sans, he'd be considered to have great handwriting no?

//hmmmm

looking at it very closely.. the only flaw I feel is the straight-stem of the letter " t "..  with out the bar/leg on the bottom, it doesn't stand out and may look like an " l " or " i " when read quickly...

vs " t " in say verdana

[tp4tissue]

Holy, you're right. I just see 'bocoose' when the brightness on my iPad isn't really high..
CODE recall time.

Yea. I definitely think helvetica is a no-go for small-text situations..

[Matt3o]

www.comicneue.com

[rowdy]

www.comicneue.com

That's an interesting font typeface.

[Coreda]

achmm.... typefaces, not fonts... 

It can be confusing, but for clarification a 'font' refers to a specific size and set of characters in a typeface (eg: Garamond Bold 12pt),  although in digital we no longer have separate point sizes. A 'typeface' refers to the design of the style itself (eg: Garamond Bold), but is often seen used to refer to the type family as a whole if there is one (ie: if there are multiple styles), eg: Garamond.

Neat little tidbit I picked up from reading on the history of types: 'uppercase' referred to the upper half of the typesetter's font case (a box where the metal type was stored) containing the capital letters. Likewise 'lowercase' contained the non-capitalized characters.

OT: I think Helvetica is a perfectly great typeface. It's overuse is the only reason it can be tiresome. All typefaces have their purpose.