Author Topic: MX Red Switches for Typing?  (Read 58914 times)

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Offline Maxim

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #100 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 21:32:34 »
Spring modded MYs.  I swear, the feel is just incredible.  I wish everyone could experience them, but...  it's a difficult modification, for a result you can't test until after hours of searching for dropped prongs and releasing snaps.  But for gaming?  It's the first keyboard I've used that's actually improved my performance just on its own merits.  For typing, it also feels great as long as I can remember not to rest my fingers on the home row.  The keys nearly bottom out with just the lightest tap.

I left the spacebar, enter and a few other keys stock.  Some I'd like to make a bit heavier than stock...

But also I want to get an MX board for better customization.  And because I'm afraid of destroying another MY membrane by spilling a single drop of coffee in it.  There's the real problem there.  The keyboard is virtually indestructible, but will fail catastrophically if any amount of liquid gets past the keycaps.

Given the situation, definitely reds.  Is there any way to make reds lighter?  Like, 10-15g lighter?

Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #101 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 21:55:23 »
Spring modded MYs.  I swear, the feel is just incredible.  I wish everyone could experience them, but...  it's a difficult modification, for a result you can't test until after hours of searching for dropped prongs and releasing snaps.  But for gaming?  It's the first keyboard I've used that's actually improved my performance just on its own merits.  For typing, it also feels great as long as I can remember not to rest my fingers on the home row.  The keys nearly bottom out with just the lightest tap.

I left the spacebar, enter and a few other keys stock.  Some I'd like to make a bit heavier than stock...

But also I want to get an MX board for better customization.  And because I'm afraid of destroying another MY membrane by spilling a single drop of coffee in it.  There's the real problem there.  The keyboard is virtually indestructible, but will fail catastrophically if any amount of liquid gets past the keycaps.

Given the situation, definitely reds.  Is there any way to make reds lighter?  Like, 10-15g lighter?

Originative 45g springs are about 8g or so lighter if I remember correctly. Anything less might not hold up the slider sufficiently.
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Offline opensecret

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #102 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 22:55:31 »
I have three keyboards that I use regularly: a Corsair K95 with Reds and red o-rings, an old Northgate with white Alps, and the built-in keyboard on my Lenovo Thinkpad.  For pure typing feel, I still prefer the Northgate, but I’m also very happy typing on the K95.  The Thinkpad keyboard finishes a distant third, but it’s about as good as it gets in the laptop category.
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Offline zig_ziglar

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 23:00:34 »
I love reds too. Still, can't help but wonder if they could feel even smoother and nicer if they were even lighter again. Might just get too light. I don't rest my fingers on the keys; they just float so that my index fingers can locate on the home keys, so I could get used to even lighter, myself.

try lubing them?

That doesn't really make them lighter per se. He could buy some of the 45g springs from Originative, though.

Stock red springs are 45g already aren't they? What difference would using aftermarket springs of the same rating have?
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Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 23:43:47 »
I love reds too. Still, can't help but wonder if they could feel even smoother and nicer if they were even lighter again. Might just get too light. I don't rest my fingers on the keys; they just float so that my index fingers can locate on the home keys, so I could get used to even lighter, myself.

try lubing them?

That doesn't really make them lighter per se. He could buy some of the 45g springs from Originative, though.

Stock red springs are 45g already aren't they? What difference would using aftermarket springs of the same rating have?

Perhaps you shouldn't assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, eh zig?
Mini keyboarding lesson: Korean springs are named for their bottom-out force, and not their actuation force. Although the measurement is slightly off by a few grams, this is what makes them quite different (Reds bottom out around 60g, while the Koreans are probably around 50g).
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Offline strict

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #105 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 11:09:55 »
Perhaps you shouldn't assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, eh zig?
Mini keyboarding lesson: Korean springs are named for their bottom-out force, and not their actuation force. Although the measurement is slightly off by a few grams, this is what makes them quite different (Reds bottom out around 60g, while the Koreans are probably around 50g).

That seemed like an unnecessarily harsh response. He's right though, Korean springs are measured at the bottom out point and Cherry springs are measured at the actuation point.

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Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #106 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 11:47:04 »
Perhaps you shouldn't assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, eh zig?
Mini keyboarding lesson: Korean springs are named for their bottom-out force, and not their actuation force. Although the measurement is slightly off by a few grams, this is what makes them quite different (Reds bottom out around 60g, while the Koreans are probably around 50g).

That seemed like an unnecessarily harsh response. He's right though, Korean springs are measured at the bottom out point and Cherry springs are measured at the actuation point.

I was joking, I've talked with zig before. It just seems that, considering my post number, I ought to have a decent idea of what I'm talking about.
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Offline davkol

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #107 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 12:08:10 »
It just seems that, considering my post number, I ought to have a decent idea of what I'm talking about.

You need another 49k+ posts to be the #1 keyboard expert on the planet. ~_^

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 12:26:55 »
Is there a standard for Korean-manufactured springs that states if a spring is rated/bottoms
out at X grams, it's actuation point is (approximately) X minus a specific number of grams?
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 April 2014, 12:35:13 by SSKGuy »

Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 12:47:32 »
Is there a standard for Korean-manufactured springs that states if a spring is rated/bottoms
out at X grams, it's actuation point is (approximately) X minus a specific number of grams?

There isn't, as springs have different force curves. It's best just to take a look at those, honestly, as they're much more accurate.
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Offline archer

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 12:52:36 »
I found difference between springs with respect to country of origin very interesting.

I recently bought into the Sprit groupbuy. I, being an MX Red lover like yourself, originally went with 50g springs. Sprit PM'd me and informed me that his 50g was, in reality, softer than a MX Red.. and that his 55g springs are actually a little lighter than a MX Brown. "A little lighter than a MX Brown" sounded like a traditional MX Red to me, so 55g is what I ordered.

And while this isn't an official standard by any means, here's a copypasta from his spring groupbuy, where he speaks on how his springs feel.

Quote
My 50g  is a little bit lighter than MX Red
My 55g  is slightly softer and lighter than MX Brown, MX Blue
My 60g  is similar to MX Blue, but has some tightness, hopely
My 62g  is a little bit heavier than MX Blue
My 68-70g  is similar to New MX Skyblue Click, some MX Green, some Vintage MX Black
My 75-80g  is similar to most MX Black
My 85g  is similar or, slightly heavier than MX Clear
My 100g  is similar to MX Grey Nonclick in MX Clear Keyboards.
My 120g  Super-heavy!

I have (in a dark closet somewhere) a Mionix Zibal 60 with MX Blacks. While it was pretty sweet to game on, it was hell to type with and would regularly make my hands hurt/ache. I dunno how anyone could use 120g springs hahah
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 April 2014, 12:55:03 by archer »

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #111 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 13:14:34 »
Linkbane: Thanks, you make an excellent point about checking various springs' force curves. It makes sense; one can compare the force curve of the spring one's using with what's available.

Archer: Interesting observations on gram-weight springs. It does give one an idea of how the springs feel to another person who has a feel for key switches. Thanks for posting the list.

I appreciate the responses.
« Last Edit: Tue, 22 April 2014, 09:41:02 by SSKGuy »

Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #112 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 15:02:14 »
Count me in as another person who uses MX Red switches for typing as much as gaming. Amongst the switches I have tried so far, they are my favorite. They were also the first type of MX switch I got my hands on when transitioning from rubber domes to mechanical, and what I find quite interesting in retrospect is that I naturally adapted to a light touch and not bottoming out.

I am happy I went with MX Reds, since I was being told by most people at the time that they would not be suited at all for everyday use/work.

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #113 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 15:54:21 »
Count me in as another person who uses MX Red switches for typing as much as gaming. Amongst the switches I have tried so far, they are my favorite. They were also the first type of MX switch I got my hands on when transitioning from rubber domes to mechanical, and what I find quite interesting in retrospect is that I naturally adapted to a light touch and not bottoming out.

I am happy I went with MX Reds, since I was being told by most people at the time that they would not be suited at all for everyday use/work.

I find myself going back and forth between my MX Red and my 87UB/55-gram keyboards. There are times I simply cannot gain feel for MX Red switches. When this happens, I can go to the 87U, and, if I choose, return to the MX Red keyboard and all is well. I think it's quite simply that I enjoy using more than one keyboard. I like the difference in key-switch feel. But when all other keyboards fail me, the 87UB comes through. I'm back on my MX Red KB and it's fine. It takes my digits a while to get comfortable in the a.m.; and this is when the heavier key switch gives me a digit workout, which is what is occasionally what I need before working with the lighter down-force Red switch.

Offline _PixelNinja

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #114 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 16:33:21 »
I find myself going back and forth between my MX Red and my 87UB/55-gram keyboards. There are times I simply cannot gain feel for MX Red switches. When this happens, I can go to the 87U, and, if I choose, return to the MX Red keyboard and all is well. I think it's quite simply that I enjoy using more than one keyboard. I like the difference in key-switch feel. But when all other keyboards fail me, the 87UB comes through. I'm back on my MX Red KB and it's fine. It takes my digits a while to get comfortable in the a.m.; and this is when the heavier key switch gives me a digit workout, which is what is occasionally what I need before working with the lighter down-force Red switch.
I can relate to that. I tend to do the same thing but with mouses. Sometimes you just want to change; in a sense it keeps things fresh, I tend to find.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 April 2014, 17:07:53 by _PixelNinja »

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #115 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 16:39:28 »

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #116 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 16:51:43 »

Offline zig_ziglar

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #117 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 17:49:31 »
Perhaps you shouldn't assume that I don't know what I'm talking about, eh zig?
Mini keyboarding lesson: Korean springs are named for their bottom-out force, and not their actuation force. Although the measurement is slightly off by a few grams, this is what makes them quite different (Reds bottom out around 60g, while the Koreans are probably around 50g).

That seemed like an unnecessarily harsh response. He's right though, Korean springs are measured at the bottom out point and Cherry springs are measured at the actuation point.

I was joking, I've talked with zig before. It just seems that, considering my post number, I ought to have a decent idea of what I'm talking about.

Hey dude. I didn't mean to confer that you didn't know what you were talking about; I was simply putting my cards on the table so I could learn the game better.

Thanks for the explanation. I had a look at the force curve graph on Originative's website and that helped me visualise it.  Hmmm either a lot of money or a lot of work ahead, it seems. I wonder if GON would re-spring and lube 87 switches for me hmmm
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Offline vivi168

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #118 on: Sat, 12 April 2014, 17:35:25 »
I'm currently using a noppoo choc mini with red switches.

I started to notice something annoying about my noppoo. I don't know if it is me or the keyboard, but sometimes when I press the spacebar, it doesn't insert any space, and sometimes it inserts two spaces in a row.



It's getting on my nerve, especially when I'm doing a typing test, and  I'm thinking about buying another keyboad with different switches...

Offline Pacifist

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #119 on: Sat, 12 April 2014, 17:36:06 »
I'm currently using a noppoo choc mini with red switches.

I started to notice something annoying about my noppoo. I don't know if it is me or the keyboard, but sometimes when I press the spacebar, it doesn't insert any space, and sometimes it inserts two spaces in a row.



It's getting on my nerve, especially when I'm doing a typing test, and  I'm thinking about buying another keyboad with different switches...

yea thats a known issue with the noppo

should have gone with the keycool :rolleyes:

Offline vivi168

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #120 on: Sat, 12 April 2014, 17:39:00 »
So it is a mechanical issue?

Is there a way to fix it or do I need to buy a new one?

And what is keycool? The manufacturer ?

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #121 on: Sat, 12 April 2014, 17:58:30 »
I'm currently using a noppoo choc mini with red switches.

I started to notice something annoying about my noppoo. I don't know if it is me or the keyboard, but sometimes when I press the spacebar, it doesn't insert any space, and sometimes it inserts two spaces in a row.

It's getting on my nerve, especially when I'm doing a typing test, and  I'm thinking about buying another keyboad with different switches...

It's likely your Noppoo Choc keyboard, not the MX Red key-switch. I've not had any issues with MX Red switches, and over the past two years I've had three manufacturer's MX Red keyboards: Filco, Cooler Master, and my most recent and the one I prefer, a Corsair Vengeance K65. If you like MX Red switches, stay with them. The best suggestion is to get rid of the Noppoo Choc.

Offline davkol

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #122 on: Sat, 12 April 2014, 18:04:43 »
I'm currently using a noppoo choc mini with red switches.

I started to notice something annoying about my noppoo. I don't know if it is me or the keyboard, but sometimes when I press the spacebar, it doesn't insert any space, and sometimes it inserts two spaces in a row.



It's getting on my nerve, especially when I'm doing a typing test, and  I'm thinking about buying another keyboad with different switches...

Well, choc mini has debouncing issues. Please, STFW. There's already at least a dozen threads about it.

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #123 on: Sat, 12 April 2014, 19:13:49 »
Added red o-rings to my MX Red keyboard, which resulted in loss of key-switch feel

I added red o-rings to my K65 MX Red keyboard and they ruined the feel of the key switch for me. I tried them for one day's typing and could not get a feel for the reduction in key travel. It hindered my typing so much that I moved away from the Corsair and took out another keyboard. I have a device I use to push the o-rings to the base of each key cap: it's a ballpoint pen barrel that fits over the key-caps' stems and makes for proper seating of each o-ring.

I removed the o-rings early this afternoon and the keyboard has again become a performer for me. The keys feel good and the unrestricted key-travel is a repeated 4mm ride I enjoy. Granted, a red o-ring restricts travel by only 0.2mm or 05% of the stock switch's travel; however, it made for a marked difference in feel for me because my accuracy and cadence, pretty much feel for the switch, became a memory, all feel was gone. Anyway, removing the red o-rings has returned the feel of MX Red switches for me. I really like and enjoy this key switch; I really disliked the results of the red o-ring mod. I know a lot of GH'ers like red/blue/black o-rings, but,for me, they didn't, in any manner, enhance key-switch performance or feel. I had to try the o-rings after reading so much about them on GH. There may be other mods that to some on GH use to enhance the switch's performance and feel, and they may work well for them; but I prefer bare/naked/unencumbered MX Red switches--they work as is.

I understand that the use of o-rings is a matter of personal preference. Did I mention how much I like bare MX Red key switches?

Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #124 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 11:00:01 »
I'm currently using a noppoo choc mini with red switches.

I started to notice something annoying about my noppoo. I don't know if it is me or the keyboard, but sometimes when I press the spacebar, it doesn't insert any space, and sometimes it inserts two spaces in a row.

It's getting on my nerve, especially when I'm doing a typing test, and  I'm thinking about buying another keyboad with different switches...

It's likely your Noppoo Choc keyboard, not the MX Red key-switch. I've not had any issues with MX Red switches, and over the past two years I've had three manufacturer's MX Red keyboards: Filco, Cooler Master, and my most recent and the one I prefer, a Corsair Vengeance K65. If you like MX Red switches, stay with them. The best suggestion is to get rid of the Noppoo Choc.

Keyboard doesn't work, throw it away? Nice logic there.
Have to fix the debounce issues, you'll be fine then.
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Offline zig_ziglar

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #125 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:20:25 »
SSKGuy: I reckon you should guinea pig an idea of mine: KMAC with black switches with 45g Originative springs (lubed). Or hit up GON for lubed black switches with his 50g springs (similar profile to the 45g Originatives) and transplant them into one of your less used boards.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #126 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:31:29 »
It's a matter of   STICKING to what you're USED TO,     vs   trying something new..

Ultimately performance will be up to the User...  Sean Wrona can do his thing on Any keyboard.. the letters just magically come out at 200wpm and that's when the keyboard isn't even plugged in.


Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #127 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 20:05:55 »
It's a matter of   STICKING to what you're USED TO,     vs   trying something new..

Ultimately performance will be up to the User...  Sean Wrona can do his thing on Any keyboard.. the letters just magically come out at 200wpm and that's when the keyboard isn't even plugged in.

Ohmygod tp is back, welcome back! What kept you so long? We even made a thread about you.
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Offline zig_ziglar

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #128 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 21:00:50 »
I agree that typing fast can essentially be achieved on any switch, but I guess this thread is in response to the common debate that red switches promote errors and are therefore sub par for typing. I somewhat agree. I'm typing on blues now and I do find that if I'm doing speed typing exercises like typeracer or typing of the dead, that my fingers CAN get a bit lost on reds. But it doesn't take away from how much I enjoy typing on reds for their smooth feel.

Any keyboard enthusiast, if they thought it possible, would be inclined to pursue an EVEN BETTER feel if it were possible. I have a feeling using GON 50g or Originative 45g lubed springs instead of stock reds could actually be an improvement and provide that ultimate end of the road keyboard experience for those of us who appreciate the finer qualities of Reds.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #129 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 21:24:11 »
I agree that typing fast can essentially be achieved on any switch, but I guess this thread is in response to the common debate that red switches promote errors and are therefore sub par for typing. I somewhat agree. I'm typing on blues now and I do find that if I'm doing speed typing exercises like typeracer or typing of the dead, that my fingers CAN get a bit lost on reds. But it doesn't take away from how much I enjoy typing on reds for their smooth feel.

Any keyboard enthusiast, if they thought it possible, would be inclined to pursue an EVEN BETTER feel if it were possible. I have a feeling using GON 50g or Originative 45g lubed springs instead of stock reds could actually be an improvement and provide that ultimate end of the road keyboard experience for those of us who appreciate the finer qualities of Reds.

the error comes from the fact that if you respond to hit-confirm on a "tactile" switch,  then your timing will be different vs on the REDS, where the hit confirm is "bottom-ing-out".. 

So you're looking at ~2mm vs 4mm travel difference.. so between the ~2 difference is where your timing error will come from..

Once you get used to it... the difference in performance will disappear, because you're ultimately limited by how well you have un-common key combinations adapted into your muscle memory..

Offline zig_ziglar

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #130 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 21:37:06 »
I agree. However! lol However, I don't bottom out on reds unless I'm under pressure in a high APM demanding game. I've just developed a feel for how much force I need to get key strokes registered. I used a keystroke sound emulator for a week or so to help get a feel for the activation point.

Your other point is spot on. Tactility is simply another element assisting in lieu of perfect muscle memory, which is absent on reds unless you deliberately bottom out.

I personally really enjoy the feeling of my fingers floating on the soft cushions that are Reds. If they were softer and faster, wouldn't they be better? (So long as the springs have been engineered well enough that their reset speed is not affected.)
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Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #131 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 21:40:57 »
I agree. However! lol However, I don't bottom out on reds unless I'm under pressure in a high APM demanding game. I've just developed a feel for how much force I need to get key strokes registered. I used a keystroke sound emulator for a week or so to help get a feel for the activation point.

Your other point is spot on. Tactility is simply another element assisting in lieu of perfect muscle memory, which is absent on reds unless you deliberately bottom out.

I personally really enjoy the feeling of my fingers floating on the soft cushions that are Reds. If they were softer and faster, wouldn't they be better? (So long as the springs have been engineered well enough that their reset speed is not affected.)

Softer and faster are countered by each other, if I'm getting you correctly. Soft as in less actuation force, and faster as in faster reset?
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Offline zig_ziglar

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #132 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 21:47:00 »
I've seen the force curves and understand that softer means slower reset, but the reset speed can be optimised; something that isn't apparent in all after market springs. You can also end up with springs that are simply too light to reset the switch at all if you're not careful ...

I don't think a slightly slower reset vs stock would have a marked impact on typing speed, but a better feel... isn't that what we are all looking for?
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Offline Linkbane

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #133 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 22:14:21 »
I've seen the force curves and understand that softer means slower reset, but the reset speed can be optimised; something that isn't apparent in all after market springs. You can also end up with springs that are simply too light to reset the switch at all if you're not careful ...

I don't think a slightly slower reset vs stock would have a marked impact on typing speed, but a better feel... isn't that what we are all looking for?

I agree, it would be a nice feeling. I wonder what the minimum for preventing accidental actuation would be, though, given that people do tend to hit random keys on the 30g and variable Topre.
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Offline Lain1911

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #134 on: Sun, 13 April 2014, 22:20:55 »
I have a mx red QFR. Although I've gotten used to it more still thumbs up for gaming thumbs down for typing. However still more satisfying then rubber dome :)

Offline czarek

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #135 on: Mon, 14 April 2014, 09:40:51 »
Just a note though. I love the ghetto vintage reds (vintage blacks with mx blue spring) where stock reds on QFR only like a bit. I mean they're ok and I was using this keyboard as my primary for few weeks but they're not as smooth and nice as modded switches. It might have something to do with lack of plate and kind of soft suspension of the PCB within my ErgoDox. It really feels very similar to topre, just linear and more consistent.
Just have a look yourself:
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Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #136 on: Sat, 19 April 2014, 15:55:33 »
The more I use the K65/MX Red, the greater the feel I gain for the key switch.
I use my Realforce 87UB and alternate keyboards, often within the same day.
« Last Edit: Sat, 19 April 2014, 15:58:45 by SSKGuy »

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #137 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 16:13:11 »
If anyone is interested, Amazon has the Corsair K65/MX Red keyboard for $69.99 with Amazon Prime. It usually sells for $90. Here's the link. I also posted this under Great Finds.
I know we have our preferences for MX Red KBs; and for me, I prefer the feel and the exposed architecture of the K65. If you're interested...

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-Mechanical-Keyboard-CH-9000040-NA/dp/B00DOWCQ0I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398200448&sr=8-1&keywords=Corsair+K65

Offline thestage

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #138 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 20:21:42 »
I use reds for typing on occasion, on my Poker.  It's a nice feel, but there's definitely an adjustment period if I was previously using my Topre Leo or Model M, both of which offer a much more distinct typing feel.  I certainly make more mistakes on the reds, but it does even out after a while and is not as pronounced, for me, as common wisdom would have you believe .  I would say that the idea of reds being difficult to type on for that reason is probably overdone if you are an ok touch typist.  Do I prefer the topre and buckling spring switches for typing?  Yes, but it's not categorical.  The reds are pleasant.  I think reds make for a nice every day board, given their lightness and utility.   I use them for gaming, often use the poker for general use given my love of the true 60% form factor, and then switch to the model M or topre for more serious typing, or just for a different feel.

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #139 on: Wed, 23 April 2014, 12:12:59 »
I use reds for typing on occasion, on my Poker.  It's a nice feel, but there's definitely an adjustment period if I was previously using my Topre Leo or Model M, both of which offer a much more distinct typing feel.  I certainly make more mistakes on the reds, but it does even out after a while and is not as pronounced, for me, as common wisdom would have you believe .  I would say that the idea of reds being difficult to type on for that reason is probably overdone if you are an ok touch typist.  Do I prefer the topre and buckling spring switches for typing?  Yes, but it's not categorical.  The reds are pleasant.  I think reds make for a nice every day board, given their lightness and utility.   I use them for gaming, often use the poker for general use given my love of the true 60% form factor, and then switch to the model M or topre for more serious typing, or just for a different feel.

With the exception of gaming, because I don't game, my feeling about MX Red switches parallels yours. I enjoy the feel of the switch, but I use my 55-gram 87U when it's time to focus on writing. I used to use a buckling spring KB, SSK, and my 87UB; however, the 87UB has taken the place of my SSK.

I do find the MX Red keyboard enjoyable to use and extremely easy on my hands. If one isn't mindful when typing, errors come into play, which may be true of any switch. I feel, as you, that the dislike for MX Red switches, especially from non-touch typists, is overplayed. I had to stay with the keyboard and gain a feel for the lighter switch; and after doing this, I can use either my 55g Topre or 45g MX Red at will; and I do enjoy a change in key-switch feel.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 April 2014, 12:16:23 by SSKGuy »

Offline WONDERBRIGHT

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #140 on: Wed, 23 April 2014, 12:16:39 »
I'm using MX Red Switches for Typing too. I'm using Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Red Switches , White Body) and Steelseries 6Gv2 Red Switches :)

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #141 on: Tue, 06 May 2014, 17:11:47 »
I moved to my Realforce for just over a day; then returned to my MX Red keyboard. There is zero fatigue with this key switch.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 May 2014, 18:49:00 by aref »

Offline Rafen

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #142 on: Tue, 06 May 2014, 19:07:09 »
I moved to my Realforce for just over a day; then returned to my MX Red keyboard. There is zero fatigue with this key switch.

It's because reds are so light. I noticed a difference going from blues to reds. Felt like typing on clouds because they were so light. Once I did that I realized they were too light so I went to browns.

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #143 on: Tue, 06 May 2014, 21:45:55 »
I moved to my Realforce for just over a day; then returned to my MX Red keyboard. There is zero fatigue with this key switch.

It's because reds are so light. I noticed a difference going from blues to reds. Felt like typing on clouds because they were so light. Once I did that I realized they were too light so I went to browns.

I recently gave an MX Blue keyboard to someone and she's returning it to me for another keyboard I picked up for her. So I'll have an opportunity to see how a the MX Blue switch feels in comparison with MX Reds. I've thought about trying MX Browns, but I thought the difference might to negligible. I haven't used an MX Brown keyboard in over a year, and I cannot accurately recall the feel compared with MX Red switches. I'll keep the MX Red and Blue that's coming back to me. I may end up with Red-, Brown-, and Blue-switch keyboards. But I want to keep only two KBs on my desk. Otherwise I get into going back and forth and it affects the time I actually spend writing. I'm a writer and spend hours each day on my KBs. I still like and use my 87UB; but 55 grams is a lot to handle for seven to nine hours of keyboard work.

Your preference is MX Browns in Cherry switches?
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 May 2014, 21:47:34 by aref »

Offline Flyersfan1

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #144 on: Tue, 06 May 2014, 22:05:29 »
I moved to my Realforce for just over a day; then returned to my MX Red keyboard. There is zero fatigue with this key switch.

It's because reds are so light. I noticed a difference going from blues to reds. Felt like typing on clouds because they were so light. Once I did that I realized they were too light so I went to browns.

I recently gave an MX Blue keyboard to someone and she's returning it to me for another keyboard I picked up for her. So I'll have an opportunity to see how a the MX Blue switch feels in comparison with MX Reds. I've thought about trying MX Browns, but I thought the difference might to negligible. I haven't used an MX Brown keyboard in over a year, and I cannot accurately recall the feel compared with MX Red switches. I'll keep the MX Red and Blue that's coming back to me. I may end up with Red-, Brown-, and Blue-switch keyboards. But I want to keep only two KBs on my desk. Otherwise I get into going back and forth and it affects the time I actually spend writing. I'm a writer and spend hours each day on my KBs. I still like and use my 87UB; but 55 grams is a lot to handle for seven to nine hours of keyboard work.

Your preference is MX Browns in Cherry switches?
You and I are so alike.  I too alternated between an 87u 55g, and an mx brown board.  It was sort of weird, at first I really enjoyed browns, I typed quicker on them than any other switch that I had used prior, and they provided some subtle tactility for general typing that did help cut down on my typing errors.  However, the more I used them, the more I seemingly became bored with them.  I tend to go through keyboards very quickly, I usually splurge on one, then end up selling it for a loss a couple of weeks later, this is what happened with the 87u and the Filco with browns.  It wasn't necessarily the weight on the 87u that bothered me, I think it was partly a bit of buyers remorse to be honest, I'm not really sure.  I was able to snag a "Like New" Used Filco from Amazon's Warehouse deals, and haven't looked back since.  I installed a universal TKL plate on it so I'd be able to try out different switches in the future, but I've become so accustomed to the smooth linear feedback reds offer, that making any drastic changes right now seems somewhat impractical for me.  I've been contemplating perhaps trying a different spring weights with the springs I picked up from sprit's group buy, but nothing much more than that at the moment.  I do think that there's a bit of a learning curve when learning how to type fluidly on reds, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes a really enjoyable experience.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 May 2014, 22:14:14 by Flyersfan1 »
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Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #145 on: Wed, 07 May 2014, 13:41:50 »

You and I are so alike.  I too alternated between an 87u 55g, and an mx brown board.  It was sort of weird, at first I really enjoyed browns, I typed quicker on them than any other switch that I had used prior, and they provided some subtle tactility for general typing that did help cut down on my typing errors.  However, the more I used them, the more I seemingly became bored with them.  I tend to go through keyboards very quickly, I usually splurge on one, then end up selling it for a loss a couple of weeks later, this is what happened with the 87u and the Filco with browns.  It wasn't necessarily the weight on the 87u that bothered me, I think it was partly a bit of buyers remorse to be honest, I'm not really sure.  I was able to snag a "Like New" Used Filco from Amazon's Warehouse deals, and haven't looked back since.  I installed a universal TKL plate on it so I'd be able to try out different switches in the future, but I've become so accustomed to the smooth linear feedback reds offer, that making any drastic changes right now seems somewhat impractical for me.  I've been contemplating perhaps trying a different spring weights with the springs I picked up from sprit's group buy, but nothing much more than that at the moment.  I do think that there's a bit of a learning curve when learning how to type fluidly on reds, but once you get the hang of it, it becomes a really enjoyable experience.

Flyersfan1: We are a lot alike. I also get bored with one key switch/keyboard. I, too, have bought and sold keyboards within a couple week period of time. So the MX Red Filco captured your favor. That's a bit of information I'll have to file away. If I find one, I may have to consider it. I do like the MX Red switch. I'll have an MX Blue tomorrow, Thursday, evening, to compare. I used to like MX Blue switches; but MX Reds are so nice... I'll have to see how the MX Blue KB compares. I like the 55-gram 87UB, but, I won't give up my MX Red KB. So many keyboards, so little time. And talk about going through keyboards quickly, we have the same affliction:  boredom with one key switch. Thus far, Reds are hanging in there for me. However, I would like to see Cherry make a linear switch with 50 grams of required down-force. Just a tad more stiffness might be 'the' linear switch for me.
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 May 2014, 14:45:44 by aref »

Offline fatmav

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #146 on: Wed, 07 May 2014, 14:47:32 »
I type on Red all the time, but only on my Kinesis Advantage/LF (which is a concave layout). I cannot bear the weightlessness of red on a flat layout. I also do not like brown on a flat layout for the same reason. If I have to choose between Red and Brown on a flat layout, I would pick brown since it has more feedback and so I will stop earlier, which gives an overall softer landing.

Offline Wildcard

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #147 on: Wed, 07 May 2014, 14:52:47 »
I use MX reds at work when I'm not using my Topre board. With that being said, my MX boards are collecting dust at the moment.

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #148 on: Wed, 07 May 2014, 16:22:29 »
I use MX reds at work when I'm not using my Topre board. With that being said, my MX boards are collecting dust at the moment.

I've been alternating between my MX Red KB and my 87UB/55g. When the Topre's heavier switch becomes a bit too heavy for my digits, I make the transition to MX Reds, which are never demanding.
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 May 2014, 15:21:05 by aref »

Offline aref

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Re: MX Red Switches for Typing?
« Reply #149 on: Thu, 08 May 2014, 17:48:01 »
I was able to make a side-by-side comparison between my MX Red and an MX Blue keyboard this evening. The Blue switches are louder than I remember and have too much click for me--something I never thought I'd say. With respect to Cherry MX series switches, I prefer MX Red to MX Blue. Perhaps, MX Browns may be more in line with MX Reds, but I don't need the tactile feel, or miss it from when I was using Blues, and I don't need/want the additional auditory feedback. Also, I did feel the added down-force required when using the MX Blue keyboard. I gather when one gets used to MX Reds, the 45-gram down-force and linear feel in an MX series become something of a given. Looks like I'll be keeping my MX Red keyboard.