Author Topic: Headphone Thread.  (Read 1309029 times)

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Offline LuvULongTime

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1050 on: Sat, 07 April 2012, 16:21:11 »
I A/B'd a bifrost against a Titanium HD.  They sounded the same so the bifrost went back.

Offline lorem3k

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« Reply #1051 on: Sat, 07 April 2012, 19:41:29 »
Quote from: mkawa;568136
the amb gamma1 kit is probably the best cheap usb dac. the aliendac and its clones are not bad either
If you can spare the $300 and aren't into DIY, the Matrix Mini-i is a great entry-level DAC. It has a really great level of detail and a nice warm sound, and it can handle up to 24/192 (only 16/48 over USB though). The amp section is pretty decent as well, nothing to write home about though.
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Offline kidchunks

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« Reply #1052 on: Sun, 08 April 2012, 18:44:33 »
Quote from: LuvULongTime;570074
I A/B'd a bifrost against a Titanium HD.  They sounded the same so the bifrost went back.

Did you let the bifrost burn in? Also, what head phones did you use for your testing?
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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1053 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 13:54:11 »
/not a believer of burning in of solid state electronics.

Offline jwaz

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« Reply #1054 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 14:45:30 »
So would it be noticeably beneficial to have a DAC (sound card/ usb interface) for sound and then a cmoy for power? This question is specific to Grado Sr-80i's with altoid cmoy on a PC. Sorry if that is kind of general.

Offline lorem3k

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« Reply #1055 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 18:48:08 »
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;574776
So would it be noticeably beneficial to have a DAC (sound card/ usb interface) for sound and then a cmoy for power? This question is specific to Grado Sr-80i's with altoid cmoy on a PC. Sorry if that is kind of general.
With an SR80i, I think the money would be better spent upgrading your headphones.
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Offline mkawa

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« Reply #1056 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 20:06:33 »
on the contrary i think sr80s are good stuff. they're pretty sensitive so they don't need a whole lot of fancy amplifier. the weakest link in an onboard PC audio -> sr80 chain is the onboard audio. i would consider a cheap outboard USB dac.

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Offline PixelVandalism

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« Reply #1057 on: Fri, 13 April 2012, 20:26:02 »
I get my K240's on Monday :whoo:
There are so many amps and dacs to choose from though :pout:

Offline LuvULongTime

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« Reply #1058 on: Tue, 17 April 2012, 11:52:29 »
Quote from: kidchunks;570946
Did you let the bifrost burn in? Also, what head phones did you use for your testing?


36-40 hours, HD800s.

Offline PixelVandalism

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« Reply #1059 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 07:44:08 »
What do you guys think of the Little Dot MKII?
I would be using it with a DAC like the Alien or Bantom.
I don't know what DAC I want to get yet though.

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1060 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 08:43:06 »
Do you have time to warm your tubes? I hardly ever listen to my tubies because I'll want to warm them up for 2-30 minutes before I listen. It just doesn't fit in with how I listen now.
What version of K240 (and other headphones) are you gonna run?

Offline Parak

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« Reply #1061 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 08:45:41 »
Quote from: PixelVandalism;577778
I don't know what DAC I want to get yet though.

If you're not in a rush, I'd suggest waiting for the nwavguy odac.

Offline PixelVandalism

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« Reply #1062 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 08:45:47 »
Quote from: laffindude;577810
Do you have time to warm your tubes? I hardly ever listen to my tubies because I'll want to warm them up for 2-30 minutes before I listen. It just doesn't fit in with how I listen now.
What version of K240 (and other headphones) are you gonna run?

I have time to warm them, I'm running the studio version.
I also plan on using it as a pre-amp for some kind of speaker setup.

Do you have any idea of what the price of the odac will be?
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 April 2012, 08:48:35 by PixelVandalism »

Offline Parak

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« Reply #1063 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 09:11:06 »
Quote from: PixelVandalism;577814
Do you have any idea of what the price of the odac will be?

The assembled PCB is available for preorder for $100 from JDS Labs, expect to pay more for one inside an enclosure. They will also sell an assembled O2 with the ODAC in it.

Offline emptyk

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« Reply #1064 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 09:13:04 »
Quote from: mkawa;575022
on the contrary i think sr80s are good stuff. they're pretty sensitive so they don't need a whole lot of fancy amplifier. the weakest link in an onboard PC audio -> sr80 chain is the onboard audio. i would consider a cheap outboard USB dac.

+1 for sure.

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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1065 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 09:15:46 »
MKII is a OTL amp though. Those are usually better with higher impedance phones. K240 isn't an efficient phone, but there should still have enough oomph, unless you want ear-splittingly loud gain. Lower sensitivity is probably good, to raise it from the noise floor. Sky is blue, sun is bright, and tube amps have hiss. Such is life :)
I only got to play with a MKIV, and they sounded excellent with a DT880 2003. Probably a little too warm on the newer DT880/600.

Offline jwaz

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« Reply #1066 on: Wed, 18 April 2012, 18:03:41 »
Quote from: emptyk;577848
+1 for sure.

JesuswasaZombie:  Get a Fiio E10 (something like $75.00 on Amazon).  You'll hear an improvement for sure.  Come back here and let me know how it sounds.  I am thinking about getting one to use with my laptop.

I'll check it out, thanks.

Offline PixelVandalism

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« Reply #1067 on: Thu, 19 April 2012, 01:10:00 »
Quote from: laffindude;577851
MKII is a OTL amp though. Those are usually better with higher impedance phones. K240 isn't an efficient phone, but there should still have enough oomph, unless you want ear-splittingly loud gain. Lower sensitivity is probably good, to raise it from the noise floor. Sky is blue, sun is bright, and tube amps have hiss. Such is life :)
I only got to play with a MKIV, and they sounded excellent with a DT880 2003. Probably a little too warm on the newer DT880/600.

What would be better at the $150 ish (including shipping to australia) for my phones, and as a pre amp for a later system?

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1068 on: Thu, 19 April 2012, 05:52:32 »
Better is a vague term. Most solid state amps should give you more power at lower ohm load. However, whether or not you need the extra gain, I don't know. Probably not. You should head to a few stores with your K240 and audition a few amps to find what suit your taste the most. I think you'll find the differences between amps is hugely overblown.

Offline PixelVandalism

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« Reply #1069 on: Thu, 19 April 2012, 06:08:08 »
Quote from: laffindude;578683
Better is a vague term. Most solid state amps should give you more power at lower ohm load. However, whether or not you need the extra gain, I don't know. Probably not. You should head to a few stores with your K240 and audition a few amps to find what suit your taste the most. I think you'll find the differences between amps is hugely overblown.


I don't know of any audio stores that sell head-amps.
I love how tubes look, that it really why I am looking at them.
Would the Little Dot MK1+ be better for me?
Or something like the http://www.china-hifi-audio.com/xiangsheng-dac01a-dac-decodersheadphone-amplifier-black-p-502.html?zenid=qkrfinifpcn61lpqt76ocghe47 or http://www.china-hifi-audio.com/qinpu-a3-a3-hifi-vacuum-tube-integrated-amplifier-chpo-p-162.html?zenid=qkrfinifpcn61lpqt76ocghe47 ?
The problem with those is how much they would be in Australia, as I haven't really looked.
I've "auditioned" a FiiO E7, and it doesn't sound, powerful? enough to drive the cans? compared to a NAD 3220PE that is at my house.

I'll see what if I can find some stores on the weekend, but I highly doubt it.

*edit* I just realised that the MK1+ only has RCA in.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 April 2012, 06:18:33 by PixelVandalism »

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1070 on: Thu, 19 April 2012, 06:54:52 »
MKI+ has more powerful amp at low impedance (200mW@32ohm vs 100mW@32ohm). It certainly doesn't look as cool and concessions had to be made for being a portable amp.

Not sure how much you can pick up a FUBAR IV (or plus version) for. Those actually don't sound half bad for the price. I saw them on 50% off, but I don't know how much it'll be shipped to you or are there taxes involved.

Offline PixelVandalism

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« Reply #1071 on: Thu, 19 April 2012, 07:32:17 »
Quote from: laffindude;578700
MKI+ has more powerful amp at low impedance (200mW@32ohm vs 100mW@32ohm). It certainly doesn't look as cool and concessions had to be made for being a portable amp.

Not sure how much you can pick up a FUBAR IV (or plus version) for. Those actually don't sound half bad for the price. I saw them on 50% off, but I don't know how much it'll be shipped to you or are there taxes involved.

Shipping something like that from the US, would probably be about $40?
We don't get import taxes on international packages.

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1072 on: Fri, 27 April 2012, 03:26:44 »
Hmm T90. If it has the same bass as the DT990 but less treble, I am buying one. T70 is a huge improvement over DT770, I wonder how big of a change it'll be since 990 is very good already (aside from the treble).
Another on the current shopping list is Philips Fidelio L1. I was gonna get this for my basshead can, but I am gonna wait and compare to T90.

Offline Namkung

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1073 on: Fri, 27 April 2012, 16:14:24 »
loving my hd650 + little dot dac i + mk iv se set up. :music:
saving for hd800 + WA2 +_+
i would strongly recommend little dot's products to anyone if you are in the market for OTL tube amps .
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Offline Mysteric

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1074 on: Fri, 27 April 2012, 16:19:02 »
Finally took the plunge on the DT 770 Pros 80Ω. I did try and order them a while back but they've been backordered on a few sites. Anyone else use these?

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1075 on: Fri, 27 April 2012, 23:13:13 »
Quote from: Namkung;584163
saving for hd800 + WA2 +_+


Listen before you buy. While technically good, I just can't listen to them. Treble will be a huge culture shock for a HD650 owner.

Offline jwaz

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« Reply #1076 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 16:47:21 »
After poking around nwavguy's blog, I think I'm going to try and flip my bellari vp530 and pickup the O2 with the ODAC from JDSlabs... I love his transparent anti snake oil breakdowns of products and I think after seeing benchmarks of the FiiO dacs etc I can't really go wrong on his price point.

Offline prava

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1077 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 16:59:13 »
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;585792
After poking around nwavguy's blog, I think I'm going to try and flip my bellari vp530 and pickup the O2 with the ODAC from JDSlabs... I love his transparent anti snake oil breakdowns of products and I think after seeing benchmarks of the FiiO dacs etc I can't really go wrong on his price point.

I'd wait until the release the full desktop product (the ODA), as it will have a better layout and better connectivity. For instance, with the O2+ODAC you have the power plug on the front, and only 3.5mm jacks available. With the fully blown product we will have big ass jacks and more connectivity...unless you want the portability the O2 offers, of course ;)

Offline jwaz

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« Reply #1078 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 17:22:50 »
Oh, that's what I meant, I'm getting confused between all these Oproduct names >_<

The last ODA post I saw was from 2011, when is the projected release?

Offline SmallFry

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« Reply #1079 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 17:46:35 »
I just got a pair of Bose OE2's to replace my Dr. Dre Beats... I do NOT recommend the Beats... The drivers crapped out in a few weeks of using them. The Bose ones are much nicer in my opinion.

Offline sth

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« Reply #1080 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 18:25:40 »
Aw, SmallFry... do you have the ability to return them? :happy:

Some people really prefer Bose, and I don't want to sound like an audiophile snob, but I am personally not a fan of the sound (especially at the price you pay for the name).
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Offline SmallFry

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« Reply #1081 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 21:11:12 »
They are certainly better than my Dr. Dre Beats. (They are a Christmas gift from my parents) I will continue to use the Bose ones... I like them. :smile: Thanks for your AUDIOPHILE SNOBBINESS though... Just kidding! Thanks for your comments, if I have any problems, I'm sure I'll remember this post.

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #1082 on: Sun, 29 April 2012, 21:17:42 »
Quote from: JesuswasaZombie;585829
The last ODA post I saw was from 2011, when is the projected release?

The goal was get the ODAC out as he felt that was a necessary component of the ODA and he felt that it'd be handy as a standalone too or something along those lines.  ODA should be back on the front burner at this point and I'm hoping for Xmas.
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Offline kidchunks

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« Reply #1083 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 09:59:34 »
Sad day, think my m-stage is damaged. Right channel is lower than the left. Had to manually adjust the left and right channels to get a balance. Going to see if I can get a friend to repair it. I was liking the HRTSII/M-Stage combo too. =\

Anyone try the Yulong D100 MKII? Heard they've made some minor tweaks and it's only $10 more than the original ($440) from tamaudio.
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #1084 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 14:33:21 »
Quote from: Namkung;584163
loving my hd650 + little dot dac i + mk iv se set up. :music:
saving for hd800 + WA2 +_+
i would strongly recommend little dot's products to anyone if you are in the market for OTL tube amps .
I completely misread the model you were looking at whoops
« Last Edit: Mon, 30 April 2012, 14:57:26 by tsangan »
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Offline Ragnorock

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« Reply #1085 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 14:40:13 »
The WA 2 is just as suited for the HD800s as the 6SE, in fact some would say its even better. The design of the WA2 caters to high impedance cans, which is what the HD800s are. The numbering system Woo has isn't logical. The 2 isn't at the low end of the spectrum, its actually $40 more than the 6SE. The key difference is that it is about the nicest OTL amp most people are willing to buy.

But yeah a WA6 will work just fine with HD 800s, just be sure to get the Sophia 274b or it won't do them justice.

http://wooaudio.com/products/wa2.html

From Jack Woo himself: (The question being which is better for K701s)

Hello David,

Thank you for your interests.

You are correct the 6SE offers much power to spare which is desirable for
harder-to-drive headphones such as the AKG's. It is up to your personal
sound preference to choose either the WA2 or the 6SE. If you look for tight
control, great dynamic control, speed, and attack, the WA6-SE is the best
choice. If you like a warmer, relaxed, smooth sound, the WA2 will work
better.

Please let me know if you have further question.

Best regards,
Jack

Offline rknize

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1086 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 14:52:36 »
Wow, I had no idea there were bottle heads lurking in here.  I'm not a huge headphone guy, but I have tried a few OTL projects on headwize.  Since my headphones are all 32-ohm, the performance hasn't been great.  I recently picked up a set of small OPTs from Edcor to build a proper headphone amp.  That project is stuck in the cue behind a few other fire bottle projects, though.

If you like to tinker, there are some good projects out there.  Pete Millett has a nice turn-key PCB-based one now that uses cheap compactrons.
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #1087 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 14:58:05 »
Quote from: Ragnorock;586548
The WA 2 is just as suited for the HD800s as the 6SE, in fact some would say its even better. The design of the WA2 caters to high impedance cans, which is what the HD800s are. The numbering system Woo has isn't logical. The 2 isn't at the low end of the spectrum, its actually $40 more than the 6SE. The key difference is that it is about the nicest OTL amp most people are willing to buy.

But yeah a WA6 will work just fine with HD 800s, just be sure to get the Sophia 274b or it won't do them justice.

http://wooaudio.com/products/wa2.html

From Jack Woo himself: (The question being which is better for K701s)

Hello David,

Thank you for your interests.

You are correct the 6SE offers much power to spare which is desirable for
harder-to-drive headphones such as the AKG's. It is up to your personal
sound preference to choose either the WA2 or the 6SE. If you look for tight
control, great dynamic control, speed, and attack, the WA6-SE is the best
choice. If you like a warmer, relaxed, smooth sound, the WA2 will work
better.

Please let me know if you have further question.

Best regards,
Jack
Nice!

I actually misread I read WA3 instead of WA2 :rofl:
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Offline Namkung

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1088 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 17:30:59 »
^
WA2 vs 6-SE is no brainer for me personally as I NEED a preamp for my stereo system.

i love my current setup but the 650s arent the best when it comes to the stuff i listen to (mostly classical / sopranos) T__T
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Offline prava

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« Reply #1089 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 21:18:13 »
For classical, IMO, the K701 beat the crap out of the HD650 (I have both). The mids and higs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good the HD650 will feel ashamed of themselves. The only problem I have with the K701 is that they are not a "balanced" headphone, as they are bass-lacking....but classical music has never need any sort of bass so for that purpose I wouldn't hesitate.

You see, If you like all sorts of music the HD650 is a good pairing (contrary to the K701, which are very specific. Listening to electronic music or any music that relies on bass on those AKG will make you almost cry), but if you know exactly the music you will be listening to, K701 is an awesome can. Just remember you need a proper amp to drive them as they require tons of voltage (with a low output impedance to not many amps can deliver).

Offline Namkung

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« Reply #1090 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 21:43:25 »
^ mm.. i listened to hd600s and to be honest, i felt that even they were better than the 650s for classical .
i figure i might as well upgrade big time and go for the hd800s . i have not had the chance to listen to them yet and I will make sure to listen to it before making the purchase obviously but from what I have read, they are pretty good for classical. + i don't exclusively listen to classical haha. I do want to try out the k701s though. i think those look awesome
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Offline Ragnorock

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« Reply #1091 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 00:00:40 »
Quote from: prava;586916
For classical, IMO, the K701 beat the crap out of the HD650 (I have both). The mids and higs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good the HD650 will feel ashamed of themselves. The only problem I have with the K701 is that they are not a "balanced" headphone, as they are bass-lacking....but classical music has never need any sort of bass so for that purpose I wouldn't hesitate.

You see, If you like all sorts of music the HD650 is a good pairing (contrary to the K701, which are very specific. Listening to electronic music or any music that relies on bass on those AKG will make you almost cry), but if you know exactly the music you will be listening to, K701 is an awesome can. Just remember you need a proper amp to drive them as they require tons of voltage (with a low output impedance to not many amps can deliver).
Okay, so you probably haven't listened to K701s with proper amping. The bass REALLY suffers without it, and without a proper amp I can definitely agree they are light on bass. However, when properly amped, they are very balanced. There is plenty of bass, and I listen to A LOT of dubstep/techno. They do really shine with classical the most, but the do make me cry when listening to Obsidia FLACs... out of JOY.

For the record, I'm using AKG K701s with a WA6SE with tung sol 6SN7s and an EML 5U4G/Sophia Princess 274b for rectifiers... as well as various other driver tubes. I have some K271 MKIIs both amped and unamped, and the 701s when amped have the most bass, over the closed back 271s.

Offline laffindude

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« Reply #1092 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 00:53:26 »
K701 doesn't agree with my ears. The shrieky upper midrange/lower treble is what does it in for me. No coherent center stage is another booboo. The BIGGEST negative against it is you need to play them loud to sound good. They're absolutely anemic at lower volume*. This was a few years ago when I still had my Headroom DAC/amp combo. I did hear that the newer drivers have more bass, so I may need to try the new ones.

*My preferred levels is probably much lower than average. I can't get my K550 playing quietly enough on one of my weaker amps without running into channel imbalance. At this lower volume, it really highlight how much headphones, even a highly efficient one, benefit from amps. Plugged directly into the computer, and the subbass is flabby and lacks punch.

Offline prava

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« Reply #1093 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 15:09:47 »
Quote from: Ragnorock;587034
Okay, so you probably haven't listened to K701s with proper amping. The bass REALLY suffers without it, and without a proper amp I can definitely agree they are light on bass. However, when properly amped, they are very balanced. There is plenty of bass, and I listen to A LOT of dubstep/techno. They do really shine with classical the most, but the do make me cry when listening to Obsidia FLACs... out of JOY.

For the record, I'm using AKG K701s with a WA6SE with tung sol 6SN7s and an EML 5U4G/Sophia Princess 274b for rectifiers... as well as various other driver tubes. I have some K271 MKIIs both amped and unamped, and the 701s when amped have the most bass, over the closed back 271s.

I believe a Matrix M-Stage is more than enough to power the K701, so I don't think they will get any better. With that said, though, it may be because you aren't using transparent amps and, thus, why you get such powerup in the bass section.

Offline rknize

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1094 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 15:49:31 »
AKGs tend to hurt my head.  Their head band design kind of sucks...like an old pair from the 70s that I had as a kid.  Can you guys really wear them comfortably for hours?
Russ

Offline prava

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1095 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 08:01:46 »
Quote from: rknize;587543
AKGs tend to hurt my head.  Their head band design kind of sucks...like an old pair from the 70s that I had as a kid.  Can you guys really wear them comfortably for hours?

You just get used to them. I couldn't wear them for more than 30 minutes at first, but know I don't feel any pain and can wear them for hours no problem.

But yes, at first they first like having your skull drilled...

Offline Ragnorock

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1096 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 09:18:08 »
Quote from: prava;587517
I believe a Matrix M-Stage is more than enough to power the K701, so I don't think they will get any better. With that said, though, it may be because you aren't using transparent amps and, thus, why you get such powerup in the bass section.
I disagree, you're comparing the most entry level ($200) amp considered suitable for the 701s, to a $1050 amp with >$300 in tubes on it at any given point. Yeah tubes may be less analytically pure signal wise than a solid state, but the parts used in the M-Stage aren't exactly stellar and tubes keep it analog.

And I dunno about the headband design, it never hurt my head and I think the design is great.

Offline prava

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1097 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 09:26:04 »
Quote from: Ragnorock;588077
I disagree, you're comparing the most entry level ($200) amp considered suitable for the 701s, to a $1050 amp with >$300 in tubes on it at any given point. Yeah tubes may be less analytically pure signal wise than a solid state, but the parts used in the M-Stage aren't exactly stellar and tubes keep it analog.

And I dunno about the headband design, it never hurt my head and I think the design is great.

Price has nothing to do with quality, as the M-Stage is a literal copy of the well known Lehman Black Cube Linear, that costs almost a grand. Also, tubes keep it analog? lol? Its well known that tubes add stuff to the signal, nothing to do with analog...

Offline laffindude

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1098 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 10:01:35 »
Amp is not going to magically fix the flaws. If his ears don't like K701, no amount of amping will fix that.

It is so easy to fall into the "more expensive = better" trap. Not that I don't think WA6 is a good amp. Then again, I liked the sound of my CEntrance DACmini more than my much more expensive tubie. If tubes are changing the sound so much, is it still hi-fi? ;o

Offline rknize

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Headphone Thread.
« Reply #1099 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 11:07:24 »
Quote from: prava;588085
Price has nothing to do with quality, as the M-Stage is a literal copy of the well known Lehman Black Cube Linear, that costs almost a grand. Also, tubes keep it analog? lol? Its well known that tubes add stuff to the signal, nothing to do with analog...

Tubes add less "stuff" to the signal than any transistor can.  In fact, certain triodes are still the most linear discrete voltage amplification devices that exist.  It's all about circuit topology.  The picture is complicated, but the short story is that transistors have poor linearity but are small (think IC) and cheap.  So you can create nearly-ideal amplification circuits using many transistors using various types of feedback loops and so forth.  How this circuit is designed and how it recovers from overload/etc is where the differences lie.  Some of them are really good.  Many of the amp ICs found in consumer electronics are not so great.  When combined with cheapskate power supplies, they are awful.

Tubes are large and expensive.  You can build a fairly complex tube amp that has nearly perfect linearity using similar techniques as above.  I have built many.  The only sane way to get high power (> 20W) is with a push-pull topology, which will inherently need global negative feedback and some careful design choices.  Sometimes you can use local feedback and get away from global feedback (the enemy of overload recovery).  One amp that I built does this with astonishing ease (and puts out ~100WPC to boot)!

The amps you guys are talking about here are single-ended and probably have no or some local feedback.  You can get away with this using tubes because they are inherently very linear.  SE amps tend to have a dominant second harmonic and low odd harmonics.  The human ear also has a dominant 2nd harmonic, and it is believed that this may be why SE amps have that "warm", pleasant sound to them.  Push-pull amps will tend have dominant odd harmonics and therefore need feedback to quell them.  Odd harmonics sound "harsh".

Anyway, I'll get off my tube soapbox....
Russ