Author Topic: Interest Check: Dolch key caps group buy  (Read 74243 times)

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Offline Findecanor

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« Reply #50 on: Tue, 27 December 2011, 21:47:43 »
Would the keys in this hypothetical Moogle Kit be able to have the same profile as Cherry row B keys?
I thought that Signature Plastic's DCS row 4 keys were angled too much.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #51 on: Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:10:45 »
Quote from: tsangan;478728
It will be VERY expensive, people would be better off just buying a legit set then getting a moogle kit :P

Isn't the moogle kit just the ctrl/alt/shift/enter/etc?

Cos the main problem (not just with this buy) is that SP does not have the Cherry Font so we can make Cherry Fonted keycaps.

Quote from: Findecanor;478736
Would the keys in this hypothetical Moogle Kit be able to have the same profile as Cherry row B keys?I thought that Signature Plastic's DCS row 4 keys were angled too much.

I'd think they didn't have the mold for that?
« Last Edit: Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:13:24 by hazeluff »
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #52 on: Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:12:22 »
Quote from: didjamatic;478732
Can you get thick walled caps made of ABS or are you just trying to replicate the colors?  

Also, you should be specific that you're referring to Dolch PAC 60-64 and not the earlier Dolch which had Cherry Blue MX but pad printed caps with Army green modifiers... or the later PAC65 which was a rubber dome.

(Attachment Link) 36050[/ATTACH]
(Attachment Link) 36051[/ATTACH]
(Attachment Link) 36052[/ATTACH]

Nice photos, got any of perfect top down shot/more zoomed in? It would help bucketloads.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #53 on: Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:13:37 »
Quote from: Findecanor;478736
Would the keys in this hypothetical Moogle Kit be able to have the same profile as Cherry row B keys?
I thought that Signature Plastic's DCS row 4 keys were angled too much.

They would be standard SP DCS profile, just like every other group buy.  I think I remember reading that it's possible to have SP make new key molds to fit the profile exactly, but that of course means thousands of dollars in setup fees.

Offline demik

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« Reply #54 on: Tue, 27 December 2011, 22:20:12 »
wow those orange on black mods are awesome.

i need a dolch set :(
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #55 on: Tue, 27 December 2011, 23:23:27 »
Wait wait...Why has this not occurred to us before. Guys, I just need photos of the font. Anyone with keycaps with authentic original Cherry font will do for photos (at least for now). I'm not sure about the lettering/symbols on keys such as shift. But if someone can take photos of any keyboard/keycaps with the Cherry Font (no knockoffs) that should be just as good.

/facepalm

TLDR; Photos of Cherry Fonted Keycaps are just as good as pictures of Dolch keycaps. At least for now.

Edited x100: cos I can't english at 5:30am...
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #56 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 00:08:56 »
Quote from: hazeluff;478746
Isn't the moogle kit just the ctrl/alt/shift/enter/etc?

Yes it is, but to go a set of 87 keys (minus all the ones we've done in the past which is ctrl, alt, shift, window, menu and esc) that leaves 77 keys left at a minimum and legend fees you're looking at a minimum $10 per key on these so that's $770 in legend fees.

Which will bring the set price to pretty high we're talking $90~$100 per set at 50 set mark. Then you gotta ask yourself why not get the official set then just grab moogle kit to finish it off?

I'm just being slightly realistic, I don't want to see ALL the work done in the SVG to have not enough orders because it's too expensive

I mean lots of people will benefit from this afterwards but who will plunge down first and pay the steep cost.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #57 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 00:37:11 »
To make the initial cost easier to justify, we could do non-standard colors, like maybe the space cadet theme or the green and cream theme.  Personally I don't really care whether my key caps are vintage or authentic per se.  I just really like the thick clean retro look of the Cherry font.

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #58 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 00:43:18 »
Quote from: hashbaz;478797
To make the initial cost easier to justify, we could do non-standard colors, like maybe the space cadet theme or the green and cream theme.  Personally I don't really care whether my key caps are vintage or authentic per se.  I just really like the thick clean retro look of the Cherry font.

+1 on this one, if the theme was different I can justify the cost.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #59 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 09:37:17 »
Quote from: tsangan;478803
+1 on this one, if the theme was different I can justify the cost.

Well I'm investing my time into the SVG so that this or future group buys can have a better font. We'll never have this font if we don't start somewhere.
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Offline telepete

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« Reply #60 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 11:44:47 »
I think this would be sweet. Friggin' old school. If it were to happen, I'd be in for a set.
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #61 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 12:02:39 »
I don't think people are taking into account the cost of this project that is all, if half of the people say they would be in for a set AFTER seeing the price I would be surprised.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #62 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 12:46:25 »
Quote from: tsangan;479012
I don't think people are taking into account the cost of this project that is all, if half of the people say they would be in for a set AFTER seeing the price I would be surprised.

If we use the same legending for different colors, does SP still charge legending fees for the different colored sets?
If we can get this to like 50+ sets over a couple of sets, maybe it won't be too bad. (still not cheap, but not expensive).
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #63 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 13:02:15 »
Quote from: hazeluff;479031
If we use the same legending for different colors, does SP still charge legending fees for the different colored sets?
If we can get this to like 50+ sets over a couple of sets, maybe it won't be too bad. (still not cheap, but not expensive).
No they don't charge the legend fees again, but your price tier for the sets won't go anywhere, which is even less viable since anything under 25 sets is expensive.

After looking at pricing some more, with 77 legends, if we get 50 sets ordered that could be viable I calculated a tad high before you're looking at the $80 ranged with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping (Let me do remind you how hard it was for \KL to do his GB for his PBT set and it was close to this price range)

Anything under the 50 set mark is too expensive, it will be around $115 range with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping.

And I really doubt we can do 2-3 different colour scheme and still reach 50+ sets each colour. It's better off doing one colour and concentrating the numbers.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #64 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 14:10:40 »
Quote from: tsangan;479050
No they don't charge the legend fees again, but your price tier for the sets won't go anywhere, which is even less viable since anything under 25 sets is expensive.

After looking at pricing some more, with 77 legends, if we get 50 sets ordered that could be viable I calculated a tad high before you're looking at the $80 ranged with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping (Let me do remind you how hard it was for \KL to do his GB for his PBT set and it was close to this price range)

Anything under the 50 set mark is too expensive, it will be around $115 range with all the fees included, shipped and in your hands CONUS, everywhere else tack on additional shipping.

And I really doubt we can do 2-3 different colour scheme and still reach 50+ sets each colour. It's better off doing one colour and concentrating the numbers.

Well thats not too bad. My thoughts with other colors sets is to share the legending fee over more sets. Obviously if we can't even hit 25, its gonna be terribad.

Imo, if OP is willing to do an extra set, it could possibly be we get 50 sets each on 2 styles? This would just make the legending fee nothing. It is a load more for him to do tho, as well as we have no idea if we can get to 50 sets.

Just my thoughts.

Realistically aiming for 50 sets of this might be best.
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Offline REVENGE

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« Reply #65 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 14:57:17 »
FYI, if you are able to duplicate vintage Cherry legends more accurately than what the current / previous group buys have accomplished, you'll have bucketloads of orders.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #66 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:01:24 »
Well, the second round of the $20 black 2-shot buy has been open for weeks and has just 15 or so orders.  I wonder if geekhack is saturated with Cherry keys?  I'm sure there's plenty of demand for another moogle kit round, but I don't know about this one.

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #67 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:05:37 »
Quote from: hashbaz;479129
Well, the second round of the $20 black 2-shot buy has been open for weeks and has just 15 or so orders.  I wonder if geekhack is saturated with Cherry keys?  I'm sure there's plenty of demand for another moogle kit round, but I don't know about this one.

Ascii + Quarzac‎ + random sales there is A LOT of Cherry DS around here, I have like 6 sets of beige DS but I need more moogle kits! Like you said I'm sure there's plenty of demand for moogle kits but paying $80~$120 for a replica set I dunno.

If we do a moogle kit this time lets do ALL the modifiers, backspace, enter, capslock, tab, both shift, alt, ctrl this way even if they don't match 100% which I doubt it ever will it will at least match all the modifiers and not look weird ie different font from the capslock then the shift underneath it :P
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #68 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:10:42 »
Yeah, I have three or four unused black sets sitting in baggies awaiting keyboards.  You bought six sets from Ascaii? :O

I would probably be up for an übermoogle kit that included a bunch of extra keys, if we could get enough people on board to make it not cost $50+.

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #69 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:13:13 »
Quote from: hashbaz;479138
Yeah, I have three or four unused black sets sitting in baggies awaiting keyboards.  You bought six sets from Ascaii? :O

I would probably be up for an übermoogle kit that included a bunch of extra keys, if we could get enough people on board to make it not cost $50+.
I would definitely be in for both colours for sure, I'm sure a lot of people would be in too to be honest, that different font on the caps and shift is killing me, also the different texture on the enter and right shift key kills me too :P

lol you have enough cherry keys to last you for awhile :P
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Offline bavman

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« Reply #70 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:14:15 »
Quote from: hashbaz;479138
Yeah, I have three or four unused black sets sitting in baggies awaiting keyboards.  You bought six sets from Ascaii? :O

I would probably be up for an übermoogle kit that included a bunch of extra keys, if we could get enough people on board to make it not cost $50+.

I'll help you take one of those moogle kits of your hands in your feeling generous enough to sell it :)

Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #71 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:23:04 »
Quote from: bavman;479140
I'll help you take one of those moogle kits of your hands in your feeling generous enough to sell it :)

Oh, I meant I have three or four sets of black Cherry keys, not moogle kits. :)

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #72 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:26:45 »
lol see, once you bring up moogle kits someone wants to buy it :rofl:
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Offline bavman

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« Reply #73 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:30:17 »
Quote from: tsangan;479147
lol see, once you bring up moogle kits someone wants to buy it :rofl:

What moogle kit? Ill take it

Offline litster

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« Reply #74 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:46:52 »
IMO, there maybe more demand if we could make an uber moogle kit with *different* colors, so we can match it with genuine Cherry white/beige and black double shots.  See my example below.  it has Dolch alpha-numeric keys and black cherry modifiers + black moogle kit.  It is not a perfect example, but a perfect example would be this example in reverse:  Common white/beige or black alpha-numeric DS caps + a set of uber moogle kit that gives you a unique color combo that you can't find anywhere.

Once the modifiers (include Backspaces, Tab, Capslock, shifts, Ctrls, Alts, Win, App, + 6-pack and arrows) SVGs are done, it may be easier to then do the rest of the caps later.


Offline tsangan

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« Reply #75 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 15:55:38 »
Quote from: litster;479165
IMO, there maybe more demand if we could make an uber moogle kit with *different* colors, so we can match it with genuine Cherry white/beige and black double shots.  See my example below.  it has Dolch alpha-numeric keys and black cherry modifiers + black moogle kit.  It is not a perfect example, but a perfect example would be this example in reverse:  Common white/beige or black alpha-numeric DS caps + a set of uber moogle kit that gives you a unique color combo that you can't find anywhere.

Once the modifiers (include Backspaces, Tab, Capslock, shifts, Ctrls, Alts, Win, App, + 6-pack and arrows) SVGs are done, it may be easier to then do the rest of the caps later.

Missing quite a bit from those, that's like 9 legends to go through, but the idea is pretty nice and I'm sure lots of people would be interested too

Once again it will be expensive for the first run, then afterwards any colour combo would be a lot easier to do as the cost would be drastically lower given that none of the SVGs will be to be redone
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #76 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:09:03 »
I like it.  Doing full-modifier moogle kits in various colors (over time) that go well with the standard white and black Cherry sets is a great idea.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #77 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:24:59 »
Quote from: REVENGE;479126
FYI, if you are able to duplicate vintage Cherry legends more accurately than what the current / previous group buys have accomplished, you'll have bucketloads of orders.

Yeah, we're going for that. Starting to make the SVGs after I eat dinner.

Also Moogle kits in various colors seem like a good idea.
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #78 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:35:10 »
I'm pretty sure cycloverid re-did them for the the RGBY kit already
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #79 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:38:39 »
Quote from: tsangan;479189
I'm pretty sure cycloverid re-did them for the the RGBY kit already

Thats a RGBY kit. I'm refering to a whole keyboard.
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Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #80 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:40:59 »
Quote from: hazeluff;479194
Thats a RGBY kit. I'm refering to a whole keyboard.


Well that is great:thumb: you are doing quite a nice service for the community!
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #81 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:50:33 »
Quote from: whiskerBox;479197
Well that is great:thumb: you are doing quite a nice service for the community!

Zzzzzzz watch tv and do it at the same time. Multitasking ftw.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #82 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 16:53:52 »
I would recommend pinging cycloverid to get his input/tips if you haven't already.

Offline litster

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« Reply #83 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 17:52:16 »
Oh, I forgot to include F5 to F8.

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #84 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 17:53:06 »
Quote from: litster;479255
Oh, I forgot to include F5 to F8.

hazeluff is doing all 87 keys :roll:
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Offline litster

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« Reply #85 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 17:55:42 »
That's cool.  For the uber moogle kit in different colors, F5 to F8 should be included.

Offline jinhan108

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« Reply #86 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 18:12:57 »
Would definitely be interested in this!

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #87 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 18:19:16 »
I got sidetracked by a mate. I made 1 key in like 5/10 minutes, then started playing SC2. hur hur...><
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #88 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 20:46:26 »
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 36122[/ATTACH]

Smecksy Me Thinks.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #89 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 21:04:32 »
Those look really nice.  Are you constructing the letters from outlines, or is that just how you rendered them for the image?

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« Reply #90 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 21:47:07 »
Quote from: hashbaz;479358
Those look really nice.  Are you constructing the letters from outlines, or is that just how you rendered them for the image?

I'm constructing SVGs of the letters using some photos I've gathered.
I'm basically tracing them and then checking straightness/symetry/metrics and correcting after that. The letters are then aligned onto my template (that has the keycap too = p).
The proper SVG is the total "Printable" area on a keycap for doubleshots and will also be adjusted for the little bit extra the cutter takes off. The keycap's border just lets me/you see how close to the borders we can align things.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:18:46 by hazeluff »
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #91 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:27:29 »
What I'm asking is are you outlining the letters in the SVG?  Cycloverid's legends are just lines; their internal area comes entirely from the cutter.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #92 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:46:38 »
Quote from: hashbaz;479386
What I'm asking is are you outlining the letters in the SVG?  Cycloverid's legends are just lines; their internal area comes entirely from the cutter.

Its an outline and not just a line. Thus giving it the correct thickness in the correct places.
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #93 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:51:09 »
Quote from: hazeluff;479391
Its an outline and not just a line. Thus giving it the correct thickness in the correct places.

Ok, there may be cutter issues with that.  Tell me to shut up if you've already looked into all this in detail, but if not check with Melissa and/or cycloverid before you do a ton of work.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #94 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 22:55:34 »
Quote from: hashbaz;479393
Ok, there may be cutter issues with that.  Tell me to shut up if you've already looked into all this in detail, but if not check with Melissa and/or cycloverid before you do a ton of work.

Are you talking about how the cutter has width and cuts out more of the image and makes it bigger? I've got that sorted.

I've talked to Melissa once about making SVGs and I seem to have a good grip on it and how the whole manufacturing part works with the "cutter" (drill). Should be ok. I can't imagine something devastating going wrong; as for small problems I'll be ironing out when they come.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:05:15 by hazeluff »
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Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #95 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:09:45 »
That's what I had in mind, but I'm not totally sure exactly what what the issues might be.  What I know is that cycloverid did his legends the way he did for a reason and has gone back and forth through a lot of iterations with Melissa on getting his legends to look right.  Also, Melissa was concerned about cutter width issues with his Esc SVG on my group buy.  So take all that for what it's worth and I'll stop pestering you about it. :)

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« Reply #96 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:20:35 »
I'll give him a PM and ask him myself. Thanks for the heads up.
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Offline Findecanor

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« Reply #97 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:46:10 »
Quote from: hazeluff;479349
(Attachment Link) 36122[/ATTACH]

Smecksy Me Thinks.
Some of those letters look just a little bit too tick. There should be more grey in the triangle inside the 'A', for instance. On the 'E', the spacing between the top and middle bar should be smaller than the spacing between the middle and bottom.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #98 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:48:14 »
Anway just fired the PM to cloverid.

Looked through the IC where he brought up the problems. The only one he said was using a line instead of like a block area for the text. I've mentioned that in the PM, but does anyone know why he was forced to do that? Because I don't see why we can't treat each keycap like like the custom novelty keycaps and just use the same type of SVG (areas of the image and not just a line).
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« Reply #99 on: Wed, 28 December 2011, 23:53:09 »
Quote from: Findecanor;479405
Some of those letters look just a little bit too tick. There should be more grey in the triangle inside the 'A', for instance. On the 'E', the spacing between the top and middle bar should be smaller than the spacing between the middle and bottom.

Noted.

Its just working off images I have no idea how the font "really" looks. The E's problem is just probably just cos of the angled pictures I traced = x.

Edit: Also - Silly me did something stupid and misaligned the bottom of the letters.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 December 2011, 11:50:13 by hazeluff »
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