Author Topic: MYOC - Make your own caps!  (Read 228358 times)

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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #50 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:20:08 »
clear resin came in, I've also got the red dye, so doing a transparent red for round one of testing, will do a clear one after.

clear resin sets much slower (its still flows after 1hour), should be easier to work the bubbles out :)

Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #51 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 01:28:47 »
Quote from: ishtob;449800
clear resin came in, I've also got the red dye, so doing a transparent red for round one of testing, will do a clear one after.

clear resin sets much slower (its still flows after 1hour), should be easier to work the bubbles out :)

I am very interested in how this works out. I so want to make a case for the filco tkl
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #52 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 02:45:31 »
we should try to get a arylic template set for that stuff... i saw the korean customs, they looked really interesting

Offline Findecanor

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« Reply #53 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 08:42:25 »
Quote from: ishtob;447148
the current material is polyurethane resin, not sure if that's "better" than ABS or PBT, the manufacturer claimed it's "thermal plastic" -___- whatever that is suppose to mean, polyurethane at least tells me its an organic polymer formed from a chain of urethanes (or carbamate) which is much more informative, but i'm still totally clueless as to what urethane is anyways.

I have done some urethane casting. I think that it is too soft and brittle on a keyboard to be used in the long run, at least compared to ABS and PBT. Otherwise, I might have done it a long time ago.

Urethane can not be double-shot as well as ABS. If you do try to do it, it might hold together by friction and the inherent shrinkage of the plastic, but there will not be any chemical bond.

Quote from: ishtob;447148
Anyone knows if there is another cast-able type of plastic resin that's commercially available?

There is also epoxy and polyester. Both are toxic. Polyester has weird fumes and should be used in a well-ventilated area. Urethane is by far the most popular among the hobbyists, as far as I know.

Quote from: ishtob;448531
transparent resin coming in next week, should be fun ;D

Good luck! From what I have heard, you need a pressure vessel and a compressor to get the bubbles out well.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #54 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 10:23:12 »
the direction sat mix VERY slowly and I can minimize bubbles without the vacuum pump

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #55 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 11:01:57 »
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION!!

Have you popped the key caps onto the switches yet? How do they fit? Tight...loose....just right??

I swapped some keycaps and they are so loose they fall off......
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Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #56 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 11:34:55 »
Are you using alumilite clear? Any idea how castin craft clear resin will work? I too would like to know how your caps fit.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #57 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 12:50:56 »
Whoever asked about 3D printers. I've spoken to some people of the robotics society at my Uni. They said it can print to as fine as 1mm thick which I think would mean it can print a whole keycap.

They told me to go along to one of their sessions and talk with someone who knew a bit more about the printer. I might tag along and see if I can get them to print a keycap for me ; p.
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #58 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 15:10:32 »
Quote from: input nirvana;449994
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION!!

Have you popped the key caps onto the switches yet? How do they fit? Tight...loose....just right??

I swapped some keycaps and they are so loose they fall off......


i added a notch near the end of the tube part of the cap so it would stick better, its working so far, they aren't like super snug, but snug enough to stay in when shaking the keyboard upsidedown

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #59 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 15:14:52 »
Quote from: hazeluff;450066
Whoever asked about 3D printers. I've spoken to some people of the robotics society at my Uni. They said it can print to as fine as 1mm thick which I think would mean it can print a whole keycap.

They told me to go along to one of their sessions and talk with someone who knew a bit more about the printer. I might tag along and see if I can get them to print a keycap for me ; p.


I have some experience making rapid prototypes using those 3d plastic printers. I doubt 1mm resolution is good enough. The cross hole in the stem is about 1mm wide. You could get close, but the piece would need a lot of work to get it to fit right ( I think). If you do go through with it, I'm certainly interested to learn about the results!

Offline Gerk

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« Reply #60 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 15:22:23 »
With 3D printers unless you're going very high end printer wise you are not going to get a "smooth" enough result, or at least to my level of pickiness. Even a current gen Mendel RepRap is not going to cut it.
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Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #61 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 17:10:20 »
Quote from: Gerk;450178
With 3D printers unless you're going very high end printer wise you are not going to get a "smooth" enough result, or at least to my level of pickiness. Even a current gen Mendel RepRap is not going to cut it.

You will never get "smooth" because of the way it's done. But you can sand it off by hand and make them quite nice.

I'm gonna try it for the lols. The machine they got is this one, I believe.
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Offline Gerk

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« Reply #62 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 17:42:31 »
Yep with some work they might be ok if you can get the stems accurate enough. I'd try it for fun too :)

That's what I figured for the machine. Very popular these days as they are open source and mostly self replicating.
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Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #63 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 21:57:16 »
I went to Hobby Lobby today with my girlfriend and in the model section and they had all these allumilite kits

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 31702[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 31703[/ATTACH]

They were a little expensive, but they always have like 40% off coupons for that store
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #64 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 22:48:11 »
nice! are you going to attempt this too?

Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #65 on: Fri, 11 November 2011, 23:05:39 »
Quote from: ishtob;450384
nice! are you going to attempt this too?


definitely, can't let you have all the fun I am just waiting until they have another coupon in the paper because it was like $70 for the big kit and they usually have like 40 - 50% coupons in the paper
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Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #66 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 03:31:18 »
Question:
Would getting an Alumilite kit less expensive, or easier, or better? Any of these, all of these? I'm probably asking mostly from a trial and error method as opposed to what "We at Geekhack" will ultimately decide as the best way.

For instance, in 5 months after we all have done it and beat each other to death in the usual GH fashion, will the consensus be to go buy an Alumilite kit? Or rather, well, if you're starting out and you don't know if you will want to follow through, just get an Alumilite kit.

Does that make sense?
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Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #67 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 17:24:13 »
Quote from: input nirvana;450456
Question:
Would getting an Alumilite kit less expensive, or easier, or better? Any of these, all of these? I'm probably asking mostly from a trial and error method as opposed to what "We at Geekhack" will ultimately decide as the best way.

For instance, in 5 months after we all have done it and beat each other to death in the usual GH fashion, will the consensus be to go buy an Alumilite kit? Or rather, well, if you're starting out and you don't know if you will want to follow through, just get an Alumilite kit.

Does that make sense?

I don't think alumilite's products are superior, but their prices are certainly good. I was hoping to get some Alumilite high strength 2 silicone rubber and their clear resin, but the shipping time was too long (I wanted to get started this weekend).

So I went to a local art supply store and picked up some things made by these two companies called Castin' Craft and Artmolds. Artmold's Mold Rite 25 seems to get a lot of praise and from the specs, it looks nearly identical to Alumilite's HS2 rubber. The store was substantially more expensive than online ( could have saved about 15 dollars) at 50 dollars for just the silicone rubber alone. I'm using a clear polyester resin by Castin' Craft that was 22 dollars for 16 oz (again alumilite's clear resin is only 13 dollars for the same amount on their website). This stuff cures super clear but is toxic while it is still in resin form, unlike Alumilite's urethane based clear resin(? I could be wrong with this, I'm not 100% sure alumilite's clear is urethane based) so using this outdoors or in a well ventilated area is important.

Oh and something else to note, Alumilite has an easy way to mix their two part resin - it is a simple 1:1 ratio by weight, where as the polyester resin I'm using requires various amounts of catalyst per ounce of resin depending on the thickness of the part being cast. Apparently, the thinner a part is the more catalyst it requires to cure correctly, so something as thin as a keycap requires a good amount.

My first mold I made turned out pretty bad, but my second mold turned out great ( I used a pringles can that I trimmed down). I'll post these things later.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #68 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 18:22:18 »
issue with using the clear, I decided to fill up part of the key when I make the cast, its a bit sloppy.. I'm prob going to have to make a new mold for the clear ones, otherwise its going to be grainy looking through the top

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #69 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 18:24:22 »
ops... forgot to post the result



Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #70 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 18:26:43 »
are you talking about the flat section of the mold you trimmed near the stem? I can see how that would "water" up the clarity. If you're talking about the top of the keycap, then I think you could just polish it using a dremel kit or something similiar. What resin are you using, and how long are your cure times?

Quote from: ishtob;450746
issue with using the clear, I decided to fill up part of the key when I make the cast, its a bit sloppy.. I'm prob going to have to make a new mold for the clear ones, otherwise its going to be grainy looking through the top

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #71 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 18:28:13 »
Wow dude, those look fantastic.

Offline hazeluff

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« Reply #72 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 19:05:57 »
The clears turned out so nice. A bit foggy/cracked like ice. I like em tho.
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #73 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 19:51:21 »
Yea it looks more like jello in person :P the inside of the key is kinda sloppy, it would be cleaner looking if I can clean up my mold

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #74 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 19:52:41 »
yea its the underside, I'm not exactly sure how I should go about fixing it...

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #75 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 20:00:04 »
;D those look pretty amazing not sure if its just the pictures since you're downplaying it lol

I really like them both ;O

This can be done for Topre too i assume, same process.
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Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #76 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 20:05:43 »
Those look great man.
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Offline tsangan

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« Reply #77 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 20:08:54 »
Once people on here has mastered this we can hassle them into a GB :rofl:
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #78 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 20:49:35 »
lol i should start cranking them out now, the clear resin can be demold-ed after 24 hours, but will takes 72 hours to hard cure (3 days)

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #79 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 21:04:59 »
Quote from: ishtob;450814
yea its the underside, I'm not exactly sure how I should go about fixing it...


You might do well to try this. Instead of filling up those four little rectangles with green stuff or modeling clay, try filling it up with a small batch of silicone rubber to just above the edge of those dividers. This way, I think it will be easier to get the surface more uniform with some natural fillets where the surface of the silicone meets the sides of the cap. To make this look its best the uncured rubber would need to be pretty low in viscosity (so that you can pour or inject a small amount into each compartment neatly) and you would need to be really careful not to get any excess silicone on the sides of the inside of the cap while doing this so that you can get a clean filling. Then when you make the actual second half of your mold, use a liberal amount of vaseline on the already cured silicone inside the cap to prevent the separate pieces of silicone from binding.

I would try this with my silicone, but it is much too viscous at 43,000 mPa-s. Alumilite's HS2 rubber is apparently 18,000 mPa-s and that sounds a lot more user friendly. I'll probably be ordering some of that along with their resins soon.

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #80 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 22:56:06 »
Quote from: ishtob;450859
lol i should start cranking them out now, the clear resin can be demold-ed after 24 hours, but will takes 72 hours to hard cure (3 days)
Dibs on some prototype ;D

Show topre some love too ;<
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #81 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 23:00:40 »
Quote from: tsangan;450936
Dibs on some prototype ;D

Show topre some love too ;<

i would if i actually owned a topre... its too rich for my blood :P

Offline tsangan

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« Reply #82 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 23:03:26 »
You need to get your hands on one, they feel soooooo nice

But my mx red board has been taking my attention lately
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #83 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 23:55:59 »
I had red before I fell in love with ergo clears, the crunchiness makes my day

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #84 on: Sat, 12 November 2011, 23:58:44 »
Quote from: braaaiiins;450871
You might do well to try this. Instead of filling up those four little rectangles with green stuff or modeling clay, try filling it up with a small batch of silicone rubber to just above the edge of those dividers. This way, I think it will be easier to get the surface more uniform with some natural fillets where the surface of the silicone meets the sides of the cap. To make this look its best the uncured rubber would need to be pretty low in viscosity (so that you can pour or inject a small amount into each compartment neatly) and you would need to be really careful not to get any excess silicone on the sides of the inside of the cap while doing this so that you can get a clean filling. Then when you make the actual second half of your mold, use a liberal amount of vaseline on the already cured silicone inside the cap to prevent the separate pieces of silicone from binding.

I would try this with my silicone, but it is much too viscous at 43,000 mPa-s. Alumilite's HS2 rubber is apparently 18,000 mPa-s and that sounds a lot more user friendly. I'll probably be ordering some of that along with their resins soon.


I tried this but ended up with more of a concaved surface rather than a flat one, I wanted as much material on the key as possible so didn't stick with it. I might try to pre-cure a piece of silicon, then cement to the current mold surface for a more even texture

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« Reply #85 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 00:01:05 »
Quote from: ishtob;450962
I had red before I fell in love with ergo clears, the crunchiness makes my day
Clears breaks my fingers ;<
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #86 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 00:05:55 »
ergo clear = clear bump but with a lighter spring ( the ones brown and reds uses) so it's like a brown with bolder tactile feel

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #87 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 15:11:55 »
Very neat stuff. Obviously a lot a detail-love needed to get the finish result.

I look forward to more info and examples of colors, and cap quality. I have a lot of interest in this and what is possible.
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Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #88 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 18:06:53 »
I guess this might be hard to answer but about how much (in oz.) did it take to cast a key cap? I have been reading up (watching youtube) on how to cast, but I guess I am just trying to decide if the 16oz. Clear kit they have on the alumilte site will be enough to cast the top part of a Filco case. I am not trying to be a cheapskate or anything they just have that kit up at the store and with a coupon I could get it for $12.00, otherwise I will have to order it online and wait.
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Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #89 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 21:47:18 »
I think it's more than enough, but it doesn't hurt to buy extra. I'd be more worried about how much silicone you'd have to buy to get a decent mold made. The thickness of the mold at the edges should be thick enough so the cavity doesn't flex any when its filled with resin.

Quote from: whiskerBox;451402
I guess this might be hard to answer but about how much (in oz.) did it take to cast a key cap? I have been reading up (watching youtube) on how to cast, but I guess I am just trying to decide if the 16oz. Clear kit they have on the alumilte site will be enough to cast the top part of a Filco case. I am not trying to be a cheapskate or anything they just have that kit up at the store and with a coupon I could get it for $12.00, otherwise I will have to order it online and wait.
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 November 2011, 22:01:37 by braaaiiins »

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #90 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 21:58:55 »




Here's my first cast! The detail turned out great. The walls of the keycaps do have a little give in them, but its supposed to finish up curing over the next couple of days and harden even more. I think switching to alumilite's clear and white resin will be a lot easier to work with. This polyester resin seems to be a little tacky/sticky after coming out of the mold, but a bit of polyester spray clear coat solved that easily enough. Still though, that's an extra step I'd rather not have to worry about.

From the looks of it, the polyester clear and the urethane clear look very similar, so i'll continue to experiment with my current mold and polyester resin with some pigmentation while I wait for some Alumilite goods to come.
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 November 2011, 22:22:33 by braaaiiins »

Offline hashbaz

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« Reply #91 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 22:37:32 »
Looks like ice in the picture.  Love it!

Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #92 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 22:40:06 »
Quote from: braaaiiins;451506
I think it's more than enough, but it doesn't hurt to buy extra. I'd be more worried about how much silicone you'd have to buy to get a decent mold made. The thickness of the mold at the edges should be thick enough so the cavity doesn't flex any when its filled with resin.


Yea that was originally what I was thinking, just the shear amount of silicone and clay I need to get for the mold means I should probably just order it all online.

Nice Job! on the key cap dude that turned out quite nice.
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Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #93 on: Sun, 13 November 2011, 23:39:02 »
Oh I forgot to answer your other question. I'm only making one cap at once right now, so I have no exact measurement, but I guess 1 oz of resin could make 3-4 for sure, maybe even 5-6 caps.

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #94 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 00:27:28 »
I finally paid enough attention and realized that you have green clay up in the keycap, so the keycap "top" is very thick once you cast it (approximately as thick as the fins on the underside).

I'm assuming if you cast a few keys and used a few standard keys, there would be a fair amount of difference when you were typing?

You can cast a key, then drill/engrave it, and re-cast as a double or tripleshot?
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #95 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 00:50:55 »
Quote from: braaaiiins;451577
Oh I forgot to answer your other question. I'm only making one cap at once right now, so I have no exact measurement, but I guess 1 oz of resin could make 3-4 for sure, maybe even 5-6 caps.

nice job! it looks like you got the underside to be cleaner than my attempts, how did you do it?

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #96 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 01:01:56 »
transparent batch #3:





compared with batch #2 (left) and #3 (right)

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #97 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 01:03:01 »
the temperature of the resin matters, I finally read the instructions, and found out I should have it warmed a bit before using in warm water so it doesnt bubble as badly

Offline braaaiiins

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« Reply #98 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 03:12:09 »
Quote from: ishtob;451620
nice job! it looks like you got the underside to be cleaner than my attempts, how did you do it?


Really? I think yours look better actually. The underside of mine is pretty sloppy, I didn't even try to fill up those four compartments - I just cut it off out of the mold.

You're using the alumilite clear, right? Do your casts have any tackiness coming out of the mold?

Offline cactux

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« Reply #99 on: Mon, 14 November 2011, 05:21:19 »
Since you guys are some years ahead from the rest of us. Do you think the you can try using ABS ? I found this forum regarding liquid ABS plastic and this one too
« Last Edit: Mon, 14 November 2011, 05:35:40 by cactux »
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