Newly-implemented changes to the Classifieds Rules. Please have a look!

[Pacifist]

Give them deadlines

then theyll do what you say

[IPT]

and all the chitchat in the threads should those be MA'ed too?  Or just left alone since the rules state they "maybe" removed.

[BunnyLake]

Do we need to put GeekHack on the sticky note?

Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'

this is my favourite post ever

[avtar]

Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'

Harsh tokes...

I'm assuming a witty response will get posted at /r/ripster.

[nubbinator]

Just write what you call it on reddit all the time 'GeekWhack'

Harsh tokes...

I'm assuming a witty response will get posted at /r/ripster.

If by witty you mean juvenile and pathetic, then probably.

[rowdy]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

[Pacifist]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

Apparently you should NOT make new threads and instead reuse the same thread over and over.

[Photoelectric]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it.  We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information.  Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference.  Nothing's changed in that respect.  Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.

Pacifist: that is not true and is not written anywhere.

[Pacifist]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it.  We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information.  Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference.  Nothing's changed in that respect.  Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.

Pacifist: that is not true and is not written anywhere.

Then why was there a massive **** fest when these rules were beginning to be implemented in which my thread was completely deleted without prior notice and I lost all the text I typed?

[Photoelectric]

I don't remember that exactly anymore, but I think it had more to do with you reposting a new thread every couple days for a while, relisting some of the same items that were listed in your older (but still very recent) threads.  That's a different situation.

[Pacifist]

I don't remember that exactly anymore, but I think it had more to do with you reposting a new thread every couple days for a while, relisting some of the same items that were listed in your older (but still very recent) threads.  That's a different situation.

1. The new thread was after around a month, and I didn't bump them for at least two weeks each time before the new fresh thread

2. Items were relisted yes, but only one or two after selling two or more items and removing 66% of the WTB items

[Photoelectric]

Your reposts were reported by others, and when we evaluated the differences between the threads you abandoned and the threads you started, they were very similar and both very recent, so it made sense to ask you to proceed with the old one at the time.  It's all case-by-case.

[rowdy]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it.  We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information.  Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference.  Nothing's changed in that respect.  Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.

Fair enough.  I was just confused reading the apparent "WTS keycap" thread and all the posts were about trading hardware.

[Photoelectric]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it.  We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information.  Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference.  Nothing's changed in that respect.  Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.

Fair enough.  I was just confused reading the apparent "WTS keycap" thread and all the posts were about trading hardware.

All the information about the actual sale/trade stuff is supposed to be in the very fist post, with a thread title to reflect that information.  If you see that the thread titles are not up-to-date, or that the first posts are not up-to-date and people are trying to add stuff on page 10, feel free to report those threads to our attention.

[rowdy]

Are the new rules scaring people away from creating new classified threads?

I opened one WTS thread about a custom keycap and scrolled through the posts to update myself on the status of the sale.

All of the posts were about unrelated trades that had taken place days before - presumably the thread was originally a WTT thread.

The rules state that old threads should be closed once the transaction has been brought to a conclusion.

Is this sort of thing going to be enforced?  or encouraged?  Or it is just a recommendation?

We can't control it, so the rules don't explicitly state it.  We can say "don't delete any content, just cross out what's been sold and lock your thread once it's finished", but then some people still will, and we can't restore deleted information.  Some people are attached to very long-standing threads, and it appears to be an individual preference.  Nothing's changed in that respect.  Those who like long threads keep them long, and those who just sell and forget still do that.

Fair enough.  I was just confused reading the apparent "WTS keycap" thread and all the posts were about trading hardware.

All the information about the actual sale/trade stuff is supposed to be in the very fist post, with a thread title to reflect that information.  If you see that the thread titles are not up-to-date, or that the first posts are not up-to-date and people are trying to add stuff on page 10, feel free to report those threads to our attention.

That's fine then - in this instance the thread title and first post were consistent.

[Pacifist]

Whats stopping me from buying 50 exact same keyboards, listing them 1 by 1, with different photos, and after each one is sold, mark it as sold, and start a new thread with everything exactly the same except for a different photo to show that I am selling a completely separate keyboard? Technically doing this fits under:

Close old threads once the transactions are complete (i.e., payment has been made and the item(s) have been shipped and received).

But then if you apply

If you have multiple items to buy or sell simultaneously, one unified thread is highly encouraged

What happens if I get the keyboards separately and at every single point in time I only have 1 keyboard on hand? So at every second I do not have multiple items to sell, just one.

Now yea, you can say use one thread and unlock it each time I get a new keyboard in my possession, but technically there is no rule saying I can't have 49 closed and locked threads with unique items that have been sold and having a 50th thread with the current (still unique from all the other items) keyboard. Each thread is selling a completely unique item--possibly used keyboards in varying conditions and thus to keep things fair are listed separately AND I get the keyboards from a source one by one, or I have all on hand but only feel like having 1 on the market for sale at a time.

Why I ask this is when people see a new thread with 0 replies, they will click on it more often than a thread with 50 replies because it looks like it was newly listed and there is a possible good deal that nobody else has seen yet.

[Photoelectric]

The rules are made to regulate the average sales.  There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme.  The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon.  They will get evaluated individually.  If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.

[Cottonsox]

Use the title to show changes by putting a datestamp on it?

[Pacifist]

The rules are made to regulate the average sales.  There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme.  The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon.  They will get evaluated individually.  If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.

Fair enough. But the rules should apply to all people using the classifieds subforum, and having individual evaluations with case by case rules is counterintuitive to having these general rules. Individual evaluations definitely should happen, but the mods should decide what to do based upon rules that are already set in stone and publicly known to everybody.

[Photoelectric]

The rules are made to regulate the average sales.  There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme.  The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon.  They will get evaluated individually.  If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.

Fair enough. But the rules should apply to all people using the classifieds subforum, and having individual evaluations with case by case rules is counterintuitive to having these general rules. Individual evaluations definitely should happen, but the mods should decide what to do based upon rules that are already set in stone and publicly known to everybody.

That's what we try to do already. I was just insinuating that to have a rule for every situation, we'd be adding amendments and clauses and clarifications all day long for every guideline on the list.  But it's not a programming code with automated moderation, so all we need is common sense guidelines.

[Pacifist]

The rules are made to regulate the average sales.  There will be deviations from the norm, some extreme.  The extreme deviations are by definition very uncommon.  They will get evaluated individually.  If you just want to argue semantics, I'm sure you could find a hypothetical loophole for every rule, which is just an intellectual exercise, and in practice we'll just do what seems most logical and correct for that situation.

Fair enough. But the rules should apply to all people using the classifieds subforum, and having individual evaluations with case by case rules is counterintuitive to having these general rules. Individual evaluations definitely should happen, but the mods should decide what to do based upon rules that are already set in stone and publicly known to everybody.

That's what we try to do already. I was just insinuating that to have a rule for every situation, we'd be adding amendments and clauses and clarifications all day long for every guideline on the list.  But it's not a programming code with automated moderation, so all we need is common sense guidelines.

Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

[SpAmRaY]

all we need is common sense

Too bad we can't bottle it and sell it.

[Pacifist]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

[nubbinator]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding).  Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric.  Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.

[Pacifist]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding).  Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric.  Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.

But if the mods instituted some kind of time out where they lock the thread until the seller updates the photos, that would prevent those who just sit there and instead of taking photos bump their thread

[nubbinator]

If wishes were fishes.

[HPE1000]

Maybe pacifist should become a mod?

[SpAmRaY]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding).  Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric.  Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.

But if the mods instituted some kind of time out where they lock the thread until the seller updates the photos, that would prevent those who just sit there and instead of taking photos bump their thread

Well they could do like most places and automatically delete threads without warning if they don't follow the rules.

[Photoelectric]

Waiting on an Unapprove option to become available, which will make post compliance much easier to achieve.  Right now it's a fair amount of manual work.

[metalliqaz]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

I'm sorry but what is your problem, exactly?  Geekhack was here long before either of us and it functioned perfectly fine without that rule.  Why do you care so much?  Do you think they are trying to scam you?  If you don't like their posts, then don't buy from them.  There was a time when the only rule here was CAVEAT EMPTOR, and the mods will still quote that back to you if something goes wrong.

To the moderators: what problem are you trying to solve, exactly?  I don't know of a single occurrence of a Geekhack member being scammed that could have been prevented with a verification shot.  There was no epidemic of misleading photos on the classifieds.  Everyone was pretty honest about the things they were selling.  They still are.  So why make a new rule and start harassing everyone about it?  You're like Congress, making new rules for the sake making new rules.

[Pacifist]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

I'm sorry but what is your problem, exactly?  Geekhack was here long before either of us and it functioned perfectly fine without that rule.  Why do you care so much?  Do you think they are trying to scam you?  If you don't like their posts, then don't buy from them.  There was a time when the only rule here was CAVEAT EMPTOR, and the mods will still quote that back to you if something goes wrong.

If I have to spend extra time getting a sticky note and writing down the date and username, then everybody else should too.

[nubbinator]

[rowdy]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

There are some that were grandfathered in since they're unchanged (from my understanding).  Others are getting reprimands from Photoelectric.  Regardless, it's a lot of work to keep the older threads straight, especially if people don't report them.

But if the mods instituted some kind of time out where they lock the thread until the seller updates the photos, that would prevent those who just sit there and instead of taking photos bump their thread

Well they could do like most places and automatically delete threads without warning if they don't follow the rules.

Another forum I am a member of does this in their classifieds.  If you don't post clear, accessible pictures of the actual item for sale, then the thread is locked without further notice.  The seller has to create another thread with actual pictures if they still want to sell.

[IPT]

We've had the new name with picture rule for a while now. Why are sellers still allowed to bump and sell things in their thread without doing so? Seems like they've been told to do so, but some sellers never actually do change their pictures, yet they still bump their threads daily

I'm sorry but what is your problem, exactly?  Geekhack was here long before either of us and it functioned perfectly fine without that rule.  Why do you care so much?  Do you think they are trying to scam you?  If you don't like their posts, then don't buy from them.  There was a time when the only rule here was CAVEAT EMPTOR, and the mods will still quote that back to you if something goes wrong.

To the moderators: what problem are you trying to solve, exactly?  I don't know of a single occurrence of a Geekhack member being scammed that could have been prevented with a verification shot.  There was no epidemic of misleading photos on the classifieds.  Everyone was pretty honest about the things they were selling.  They still are.  So why make a new rule and start harassing everyone about it?  You're like Congress, making new rules for the sake making new rules.

if they're making up this rule, then everyone should have to follow it regardless of their "status" on these forums.
If i have to go back and take these pictures and what not, everyone should have to.

Now your point to the mod team is the real key of this issue, not your attack on Pacifist who i agree 100% with.
I don't see the point of having this rule if its not enforced, the items in question are still posted or shown in the sell thread.
That's not stopping someone from selling even without pictures.

duc_nckt is still selling his clacks without name/date in pictures but his thread's still up for the month now.

[CommonCurt]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

[SpAmRaY]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.

[ideus]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.

What do you mean by cheating the system?

[Tarzan]

As I'd pointed out in my sale thread, the instructions for what should be in ad pictures is subject to interpretation.

Include clear photographs of your items (in good light -- no blurry night-time “potato shots”) along with your Geekhack.org user name and the date the photograph was taken.

I went to a fair amount of trouble to watermark each picture I'd taken, to include my username and the date the picture was taken.  Plus, I included a Tarzan novel in each picture, or related novel.  Only to be told that wasn't acceptable, that it needed to be a handwritten note.  Wtf.  How do my pictures NOT include the requested information?  Where does it say watermarks or digital labels are not acceptable?

Looking at other sale threads, I've seen at least one that just had a GeekHack badge hanging in the picture (not handwritten or anything).  If this is going to be a rule enforced for sale threads, at least be specific about the requirements, don't leave it up to interpretation.

[Photoelectric]

Will revise to clarify.  It doesn't matter if the username and date are handwritten or printed on something, as long as what they were placed on is physically present next to the items when you take your photographs.  Proof of ownership is the goal. You could even put today's newspaper cover and a name tag next to your goods if you feel like being creative.

EDIT: revised.

[SpAmRaY]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.

What do you mean by cheating the system?

Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.

[CommonCurt]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.

What do you mean by cheating the system?

Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.

Yeah, but wouldn't the mods be able to see if someone was doing that?

[SpAmRaY]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.

What do you mean by cheating the system?

Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.

Yeah, but wouldn't the mods be able to see if someone was doing that?

¯\(°_o)/¯

[SpAmRaY]

So can we not reuse old threads? We have to close them and start new ones??

[mkawa]

On my WTB thread in the classifieds I was able to delete my own comments a few days ago. Now that option is no longer there?

I was only deleting my old bumps so that I didn't start to build up  pages of them.  Is there a reason why I'm no longer able to delete them?

I would guess they don't want people cheating the system.

What do you mean by cheating the system?

Before you could just delete your last post then repost therefore bypassing 24hr bumps.

Yeah, but wouldn't the mods be able to see if someone was doing that?

actually, we can't. that data is not logged.

[mkawa]

So can we not reuse old threads? We have to close them and start new ones??

in theory, as long as you consistently follow the guidelines, reusing old threads is fine. however, what we see with megathreads is that people wipe out old information quickly, do not keep everything in sync, and some posters have been downright nasty and insulting to staffmembers when contacted about it. that latter part is not acceptable in any way shape or form.

we are discussing whether to allow reusing old threads or not just based on mod team's ability to enforce the rules within their the envelope of their time and attention.

[SpAmRaY]

So can we not reuse old threads? We have to close them and start new ones??

in theory, as long as you consistently follow the guidelines, reusing old threads is fine. however, what we see with megathreads is that people wipe out old information quickly, do not keep everything in sync, and some posters have been downright nasty and insulting to staffmembers when contacted about it. that latter part is not acceptable in any way shape or form.

we are discussing whether to allow reusing old threads or not just based on mod team's ability to enforce the rules within their the envelope of their time and attention.

Just curious since in the following post the user was instructed to close the thread and start a new one.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45727.msg1320348#msg1320348

[esoomenona]

Have the terms of service for the site as a whole changed? Or are the rules just for the lowliest of us, and the moderating staff mute/ban who they want without any reason?

[riotonthebay]

Have the terms of service for the site as a whole changed? Or are the rules just for the lowliest of us, and the moderating staff mute/ban who they want without any reason?

This question might seem inflammatory, and this might not be the right place to discuss it, but I'm kinda wondering the same thing.

Right now, it feels a lot like dissenters randomly disappear without word or warning. Some transparency around mutes/bans/etc. – even a read-only thread – would go a long way and lead to less backlash.

[rockhawksam]

I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! 

[Pacifist]

I have tried posting to the classifieds three times now, and it still is not showing up! 

because it needs to be approved first