Author Topic: CST L-Trac laser trackball (Read 143320 times)

bigpook · « **Reply #50 on:** Fri, 01 May 2009, 21:49:25 »

I thought I would post a followup on the CST trackball. After using it for a week or so for hours on end I started to develop pain in my wrist.

Thats a first for me, at least when it comes to trackballs. I keep my forearm relatively level with the desk and avoid any weird angles that don't feel natural.

I find the hard plastic wrist rest difficult to settle in on. I find myself moving my hand quite a bit when I use it. So I went back to the kensington expert and am using the wrist rest that the kensington comes with. If you remember the plastic pins broke off ( really cheap design) and it turned out to be a quick fix. I used a couple fo strips of velcro to bind the wrist rest to the mouse. It works fine.

I got to say that the kensington was noticeably more comfortable to use, like straightaway more comfortable and I hate to say this but the kensington trackball is alot smoother then the CST. Not the CST is bad, its not and it works fine but the trackball on the kensington is incredibly smooth.

I am going to run it this way for a week or so and then switch back to the CST and see how it works out.

ozar · « **Reply #51 on:** Fri, 01 May 2009, 22:19:47 »

Thanks for the update.

Hope it all works out because the CST sure looks nice. If not, at least you gave it fair chance. I'm going to hold off on ordering one until I hear more about how it works out for you.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #52 on:** Fri, 01 May 2009, 23:51:13 »

Yea that is one of the reasons I'm hesitant to purchase one. I just can't help but think that you would have to move your hand around to operate one of the bigger track balls. I've never had any issues with the Trackman Marble/Wheel. And from an ergonomics perspective I have yet to see any thing that I think would be more comfortable. You just lay your hand on it and every thing is exactly where it should be. Your hand just sits naturally on it.

bigpook · « **Reply #53 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 05:08:07 »

I am going to wait a week or so until the pain goes away.
I am thinking a wrist rest may be the solution for me as both the expert and CST have the hand sitting high up.However, the expert has the rubber foam rest that does a good job of keeping my wrist in a neutral position.
I think thats the problem. With the CST my wrist is angled which is causing the issue. These issues may not effect/affect (I never know which one to use) others as it has me. I am really surprised as I go use a lot of different mice and this is the first time this has come up. I think the CST is a great trackball, it may not work for someone with small hands, but neither would the kensington expert.

bigpook · « **Reply #54 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 08:57:27 »

I may have found a solution. I need to increase the angle in order to keep my wrist straight. I would like a more visually appealing solution, something that doesn't require bondo or putty : )

rnak92a · « **Reply #55 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 10:21:16 »

Quote from: ripster;88620

Oh, Pook, you coulda told me earlier!

Hah, and I just ordered one. Well I haven't had that problem with the Expert or the CH DT225 but then I don't use them exclusively. I'm going to try alternating mouse on right and trackball on left just to give my right wrist a break. So we'll see when it arrives.

- Ripster

P.S. If desperate I could try a variation of Chimera's epoxy putty trackball mod or some kind of foam wrist rest attachment.

Ripster,

Please don't ruin that trackball with epoxy putty. If you find it doesn't work out for you, I'll buy it from you.

Cheers,
~rn

MANISH7 · « **Reply #56 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 10:56:01 »

Wow, good thing I resisted the temptation and went with what I thought would be the better idea. Sometimes when members get cool looking, expensive stuff you want to try it too. I refrained from trackballs because your fingers (hence connective tissues) are constantly in motion to move it around. Instead I opted for the Evoluent Vertical Mouse. It keeps your forearm / wrists in a neutral position and you move the device with your arm rather than the hand or wrists. Very healthy, comfortable, and easy to use. I ordered the one for lefties and paid less than half of the price for a CST.

Just like iMav, I'm a left handed person that uses right hand mice. Having a vertical mouse on the left side (if you can handle using your left hand) is better than trackball for the reasons I described and its also better than a mouse bridge (I have 3 of them) because the mouse isn't elevated. I like the concept of a vertical mouse better than trackballs and regular mice.

bigpook · « **Reply #57 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 11:19:31 »

Actually, moving the ball around is not the issue. For me its the angle of the wrist when it is resting on the mouse. The kensington expert come with a wrist rest that negates the issue, I wish the CST had some kind of something to elevate it, at least for me. And oddly, the cheapest one I have ( that is not a logitech) is the kensington orbit which fits perfectly.

bigpook · « **Reply #58 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 11:26:09 »

Its not a bad idea to wait a few weeks or so and let the situation settle down.
I am back on the orbit for now as it doesn't require a wrist rest and fits my hand perfectly. Once the pain goes away I will try out the CST elevated.
I hope it works out as I do like this trackball.

bigpook · « **Reply #59 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 11:33:14 »

Its not a good idea to judge something based one persons opinion.
You say you have one on order so I am curious to see how it works out for you after having it for a week or two.
Keep in mind that I use my keyboard/mouse for hours on end. This may not be an issue at all for a casual user.

bigpook · « **Reply #60 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 11:57:03 »

I tried the expert without the wrist rest but didn't like it. We are all different and what works for one may not work for someone else.

bigpook · « **Reply #61 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 16:24:57 »

Ok, I think I got the CST where it needs to be.

I need to redo it as the first attempt was more of a hack job to see if it would even work.

Just for reference here is the kensington orbit, it fits perfectly in my hand.

Here is the orbit with my hand basically palming it.
Notice the angle of the wrist.

Here is the hacked foam wrist pad, part 1

Here is part 2 with the filler piece in place.

Here is part 2 in all its hacked glory. I did it with a razor knife and it was hard to be accurate. I didn't want to slip and slice an artery : )

And finally, here is my hand at rest on the CST. My wrist is now much straighter then before.

I have another wrist rest to play with. Ideally, I would be able to carve it as one piece. Let me drink a few beers and give it a shot.

bigpook · « **Reply #62 on:** Sat, 02 May 2009, 17:50:14 »

Its still fugly but its one piece. Anyone have a better idea/way of doing this let me know. But it is helping my wrist.

iMav · « **Reply #63 on:** Sun, 03 May 2009, 01:47:10 »

Looks like something lam could fashion out of wood and sell to all the CST trackball owners.

rnak92a · « **Reply #64 on:** Sun, 03 May 2009, 01:55:53 »

Probably so, iMav. lam might find tidy profits in a marketplace posting for that item.

Cheers,
~rn

bigpook · « **Reply #65 on:** Sun, 03 May 2009, 07:56:01 »

I haven't seen lam in awhile, curious as to what he would have to say about that. I agree he would /could make something a bit more easier on the eye. My fabricating skills are not so hot.

bigpook · « **Reply #66 on:** Sun, 03 May 2009, 11:44:02 »

yeah, thats pretty much it in a nutshell. I carved out the bottom so the rest rides up almost 2 inches onto the the base. I think thats the problem for me. The slope from from the crest to the bottom is too steep. The kensington expert does not have that problem, as long as you use the wrist rest.

YMMV of course and it may not even effect/affect you at all.

itlnstln · « **Reply #67 on:** Mon, 04 May 2009, 07:07:58 »

OT, but is that a CD case for the Miles Davis Quintet in the third pic, bigpook? If so, that's good stuff.

bigpook · « **Reply #68 on:** Mon, 04 May 2009, 09:44:51 »

Quote from: itlnstln;88937

OT, but is that a CD case for the Miles Davis Quintet in the third pic, bigpook? If so, that's good stuff.

: ) yes it is.

bigpook · « **Reply #69 on:** Mon, 04 May 2009, 11:43:48 »

I have:

Kind of Blue

Birth of the Cool

In a Silent Way

Miles Davis and John Coltrane

Walkin'

Cookin'

Workin'

Steamin'

Relaxin'

and yes.....*****es Brew

I think there are more but I can't remember.

itlnstln · « **Reply #70 on:** Mon, 04 May 2009, 11:58:32 »

The Miles Davis and John Coltrane stuff is flat out amazing.

bigpook · « **Reply #71 on:** Mon, 04 May 2009, 13:58:56 »

Quote from: itlnstln;88969

The Miles Davis and John Coletrain stuff is flat out amazing.

So is the Coltrane and Thelonious Monk CD.

bigpook · « **Reply #72 on:** Mon, 04 May 2009, 16:30:56 »

Quote from: ripster;88954

O'Cmon.... it's not my pressing of "Kind of Blue", or "Cookin'".

Don't tell me it's "*****es Brew"!

- Ripster

? Actually, its this:

check it

From one of the reviews. I think this is some of his greatest stuff. Miles Davis had some great talent behind him and it shows here. Highly recommended.

"Steamin' was the last to be released of the four classic albums created from the marathon two day sessions in 1956, which were recorded to fulfill Davis's Prestige contract. The quintet consisted of Davis on trumpet, John Coltrane on tenor sax, Red Garland on piano, Paul Chambers on bass, and Philly Joe Jones on drums. This is the second of the four albums that I've purchased, the other in my collection being Workin' With the Miles Davis Quintet."

mir_j · « **Reply #73 on:** Tue, 05 May 2009, 22:55:26 »

greetings - joined just to reply to this thread:

I recently purchased the ltrac based on trying out a few trackballs with the smaller ball, emailing with CST customer service, and reading this thread which I have been following with interest. I thought I would share a few comments I had. First, I found the trackball a lot heavier to move around than the smaller balls (ie. logitech trackman marble) I also feel like it is more difficult to spin it in one direction than the other- I have cleaned the bearings, but I have a feeling one of the bearings is not turning as well as the others. I will see if it breaks in a little. I also noticed that the L-TRAC has a slightly loud sound when rolling that resonates a little with the large hollow plastic enclosure, which I was not expecting.

It helps to tilt the case a little similar to bigpooks experiments to get a comfortable hand position for me, I did it by just propping up the close end with an eraser. I am also having trouble finding a good hand position to use - perhaps someone can fill me in with a tip? I find the side buttons inconvenient since I am almost always clicking on the thinnest part of the button (directly to the left and right of the ball). I can make good use of the lower fat part of the button by moving my hand down, but it is very difficult to use the middle click or the scroll wheel this way. It is difficult for me to use the top half of the buttons because the ball is located more at my palm!

I also have to preform a lot of click-and-drag moves with the middle button which was very inconvenient. I have solved this by switching the middle and right button positions in the provided software, but the top button on the trackball is still very inconvenient - I find myself moving the cursor by rolling the ball up when reaching for the top button or the scroll wheel.

All in all, I am questioning whether my purchase was worth the cost, but I will try it out for a week or two to see if it is just a matter of adjusting. I would be interested to hear any thoughts relating to the quality and smoothness of the cursor motion from other owners and whether this is consistent in every direction.

ozar · « **Reply #74 on:** Tue, 05 May 2009, 23:09:38 »

Welcome to the forums, mir_j, and thanks for posting your comments regarding this device!

I've been considering purchasing one, so all comments help me with the decision.

rnak92a · « **Reply #75 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 00:58:22 »

Thanks for posting back about this, Ripster.

If some company would sell the #&@*& matching switches that utilize the 1/8" jacks and don't cost both arms and half a leg, I'd buy them and this trackball.

Cheers,
~rn

rnak92a · « **Reply #76 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 02:54:19 »

I wonder if MsKeyboard has buckling springs or clicky switches? :lol: Whomever she is and however configured, she's helpful and kind enough. It's not her fault Fentek doesn't sell the 1/8" jack compatible switches. :frusty:

Cheers,
~rn

bigpook · « **Reply #77 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 06:01:59 »

I have had the CST for a week or so and came close to sending it back. I modified a wrist rest to keep my hand from being at an awkward angle but will try out using an eraser to kick the bottom up.
I can see where this mouse can be a problem for people with small hands. I have fairly large hands and my middle finger reachs the scroll wheel with no problem. I am now using my thumb mostly to right click but sometimes use the forefinger. Left click with the pinky or ring finger. Doing this puts the ball just fore of my palm and it works out pretty good.
Will this end up being my daily driver? I don't really know yet. The kensington expert and orbit work just as well for me. But then again its normal for me to swap out input devices on short notice.
On another note, I won a CH trackball on ebay, don't have a pic but ripster has posted here about it. Its got a 9 pin serial on it so I had to order a serial board to accomodate. Will post when I get all that going and see how it compares.

bigpook · « **Reply #78 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 12:38:13 »

ripster, thanks for mentioning that. I am on a 24" screen and that could be a problem. Hopefully I can jack the acceleration. One of the nice things about the CST is the on-the-fly DPI adjustment.

Rajagra · « **Reply #79 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 15:53:48 »

Quote from: ripster;89471

I was surprised when hooking it up to my computer the rather low sensitivity - I have to really jack up my mouse settings to get it to scroll the entire screen (2 1/2 revolutions for me!). I think you're on Unix so maybe there's a way to fine tune the thing.

Is this due to Windows mouse acceleration being on by default - and unconfigurable in XP (and later versions?)

I have a TrackMan Marble FX plugged into an XP machine, and it has 2 modes - moving like a snail or flying across the screen when you flick it. I have no way to configure it because SetPoint doesn't list it. (I already have 2 versions of SetPoint running, I don't want to load up a third LOL.)

cchan · « **Reply #80 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 16:03:27 »

Quote from: Rajagra;89578

Is this due to Windows mouse acceleration being on by default - and unconfigurable in XP (and later versions?)

I have a TrackMan Marble FX plugged into an XP machine, and it has 2 modes - moving like a snail or flying across the screen when you flick it. I have no way to configure it because SetPoint doesn't list it. (I already have 2 versions of SetPoint running, I don't want to load up a third LOL.)

Ugh, SetPoint drops support for older pointing devices? I already hate Logitech for it being a 60 megabyte download.

bigpook · « **Reply #81 on:** Wed, 06 May 2009, 19:05:13 »

I don't have an eraser to use to kick up the CST but I did use some rolled up refrigerator liner. It actually works too. I can get the right height/rise for my hand to work.
This is a temporary solution. Now I am thinking of making a wedge out of wood and painting it black. I am not to handy with wood though, but it should be fairly simple to do.

mir_j · « **Reply #82 on:** Thu, 07 May 2009, 16:35:02 »

it occurred to me that turning the l-trac 180 degrees makes it a lot easier to use all of the buttons... anyone know of a software that can reverse the axes and buttons for mice?

ch_123 · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 07 May 2009, 18:29:24 »

Looks interesting, but from what I see it doesnt seem to have any advantage over my Expert Mouse (Unlike a lot of people, I amn't bothered by the scroll-wheel's noise/feel) but on the other hand looks less comfortable to use. The ability to change the sensitivity looks cool though.

bigpook · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 07 May 2009, 19:36:26 »

Sadly, I have to agree. I think the kensington expert with wrist pad sets the bar here, the orbit is good too even if it is only a two button mouse.

While the CST can change the DPI on the fly which is a good thing, its really not as important to me, since once its set I am pretty much done with it. I have no issues setting mouse speed and sensitivity in the control panel for the expert.

Still though, the CST is not a bad mouse. But if you already have a kensington expert then you can probably give the CST a pass. Unless, of course, you LIKE trackballs and want to add it to an ever growing collection : )

bigpook · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 07 May 2009, 20:08:23 »

ripster

you were mentioning how the CH trackball how slow acceleration. If you are running linux you can fine tune your acceleration/sensitivity with the xset command.

xset m 5 2

m is for mouse

5 is acceleration

2 is sensitivity/threshold

the numbers just need to be integers.

man xset for more info.

bigpook · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 07 May 2009, 20:23:40 »

I am thinking this can be the storm trooper mouse, it would complement the darth mouse...

bigpook · « **Reply #87 on:** Thu, 07 May 2009, 21:37:19 »

I was thinking the same thing, so much so that I think I am going to return the CST and try the evolution. I wanted to like the CST but its causing me to much pain in my elbow. I saw your post on removing the armrest and thought the same. Then I said wait a minute...the kensingtons I have do not cause me any grief. So there I am.
We'll see how that works out.

iMav · « **Reply #88 on:** Mon, 18 May 2009, 03:00:24 »

Bigpook, did you end up returning the CST?

bigpook · « **Reply #89 on:** Mon, 18 May 2009, 04:40:07 »

Quote from: iMav;91412

Bigpook, did you end up returning the CST?

Yes, I did. I am now mousing on the right hand side and hoping this pain in my elbow will go away. I am disappointed with how that all turned out.

bigpook · « **Reply #90 on:** Mon, 18 May 2009, 17:36:34 »

To all that may be interested. Please don't take my opinion as anything else concerning the CST mouse. I think its a fine trackball with a great scrollwheel.

Unfortunately for me, that after using it non-stop for over three weeks I developed a soreness in my left elbow. Its to the point where I now have to mouse on the right hand side just to give my left elbow a break.

YMMV on this and I am surprised that this has happened to me. Please don't automatically make the assumption that the same will happen to you.

bigpook · « **Reply #91 on:** Fri, 22 May 2009, 11:47:56 »

Thats pretty cool ripster. Looks like you have a 5 button mouse now. I guess the challenge now is to make it look all pretty. Please post pics as you progress forward.

watduzhkstand4 · « **Reply #92 on:** Fri, 22 May 2009, 11:59:52 »

nice mod ripster. I'm loving the 3 ball =D

bigpook · « **Reply #93 on:** Fri, 22 May 2009, 12:05:18 »

when its all said and done, will you be able to hide everything on the inside of the mouse? Or will the two jacks have to be exposed?

Yeah, in some sense, trackballs have a look that only a mother can love. Thankfully you don't have to look at them while you use them.

bigpook · « **Reply #94 on:** Tue, 26 May 2009, 20:56:37 »

Nice work ripster : )

bigpook · « **Reply #95 on:** Tue, 26 May 2009, 21:12:32 »

you must have some fairly decent tools. Its a small piece of wood to be working on, no?
Hate to think what it would like if I had to make it : O
Norm would not be proud.

MsKeyboard · « **Reply #96 on:** Tue, 26 May 2009, 21:15:23 »

Ripster,
I am going to send a copy of the picture to the guys @ CST, they should get a kick out of this mod. Looks great! Nice job.

bigpook · « **Reply #97 on:** Tue, 26 May 2009, 21:17:03 »

yeah, it doesn't match the texture of the mouse, but its 'rubberized' right? I suppose that it will take a beating but still hold up. Besides, its not like you look at the mouse while you use it anyways.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #98 on:** Tue, 26 May 2009, 21:25:00 »

Quote from: ripster;92843

It was fun too shaping that wood. It's hilarious to watch dads work with their sons these days on pinewood derby cars (one of my friends is a boy scout leader). Their dads are spending HOURs scouring the internet, buying parts, getting tools, and perfecting the design while the kid watches.

LOL Know what you mean. In our pack we had a build your pinewood derby car day. I really could not believe how all these dads were doing all the work and would not let their son's touch the car. Me I helped but my son did all the work painted it sanded it every thing but the wheels I did those as I did not want him hurting himself with the tools needed to polish the nails. We did not get first place but he had fun and thats really all that matters. Next year I may let him do the wheels as well it depends on if he has learned how to be carfull yet. At 7 he still does not grasp how easy it is to get hurt with power tools.

chrismar · « **Reply #99 on:** Wed, 27 May 2009, 00:42:51 »

Quote from: bigpook;84354

The kensington expert is a fine mouse, the scroll ring is genius. The only downside is it is plastic on plastic. I don't know why kensington didn't design a better mechanism for that.
Having said that, it works great for me.

I found the same ball bearing dimensions in stainless steel (from one of Microsoft's trackball devices) and replaced the plastic ones in my Kensington EM. I have not encountered any post modification issues with materials concerning weight bearing, possible scarring, resolution or ratios.

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Author Topic: CST L-Trac laser trackball (Read 143320 times)