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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: tjcaustin on Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:46:12

Title: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:46:12
Big thanks to jdcarpe for the initial help

I'm making this as a repository/dump for basic soldering advice with the influx of custom boards (gh60, phantom r2, kmac 2/happy, gh60++) for those of us interested in trying our hand at doing this ourselves.

I plan on keeping this fairly up-to-date with people's suggestions, tips and tricks but here's at least a basic shopping list to start.

Recommended for good soldering:
Soldering stuff store - http://sra-solder.com/

Soldering wick - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=341-550

Soldering flux

Kester 44 .032 diameter solder(.020 for SMD) -
63/37 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-074
.020 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-072

Solder spool holder - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-345

Helping Hands soldering too - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-670

Magnifying lamp (I say requirement, but really you can get away without this, but anything to reduce eye strain is a good) - http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200514197_200514197

Jeweler's Visor - http://www.amazon.com/Jewelers-Lighted-High-Power-Magnifier-Visor/dp/B005VR19ES/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388723286&sr=8-1&keywords=jeweler%27s+glasses

Multimeter - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA04E0BA8503&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Electrical+Testers-_-9SIA04E0BA8503

Solder Smoke Absorber - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-358

Heat gun - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-386

Budget ($50):
Edsyn CL1481 kit (includes tips/tools/soldapullt) - http://www.edsyn.com/product/ST/CL1481-K.html
NOTE - mkawa will be making a better version of this kit with more robust stuff through the geekhackers store, but it won't be anywhere close to this bargan basement pricing

Mid-range ($100 - 300):
Soldering
Edsyn 951SX - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=951SX
Hakko FX888D- http://www.ebay.com/itm/170990362664?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Desoldering -
Edsyn soldapullt III - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=DS017 OR
Universal soldapullt - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=US140


Baller (the rest):
Soldering

Edsyn 2020 (what I use for work) - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=2020

Desoldering -
Hakko FR-300 - http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FR300-05-FR300-De-soldering-carrying/dp/B00KWM69C4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1413769433&sr=8-4&keywords=hakko+desoldering


Thread Update with new links (June 17, 2017):

http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481-K1.html - $93.50
http://www.edsyn.com/product/951SX.html - $168.50
http://www.edsyn.com/product/PT109.html - $16.80
http://www.edsyn.com/product/US140.html - $10.64
http://www.edsyn.com/product/2020.html - $466.20
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:55:24
Tip tinner.  Need that tip tinner.
Also let me put in my vote for the fantastic, all American Weller WES51
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: L4yercake on Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:57:01
Something I've been wondering is what replacement tips should I get for the Hakko FX-888?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 25 April 2013, 21:58:35
Something I've been wondering is what replacement tips should I get for the Hakko FX-888?

Any tool worth anything should come with a manual that lists proper replacement part numbers.  If you don't have it, try Hakko's website.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:00:14
Both suggestions added to appropriate sections.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:02:38
Not a fan of soldering wick, I like suckers more.

The best:
http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-DS017LS-Static-Safe/dp/B0019V5HRA/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1366945331&sr=8-17&keywords=solder+sucker
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bavman on Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:07:02
Need to add flux. That stuff works magic
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:17:49
For the people completely new to soldering...
A quick tip that I learned real early in class, but a bit after I first began soldering:

Don't just heat up the solder enough to melt it and then touch it to the metal hoping it will stick - it will stick, but you will likely get a cold solder joint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering#Electronics).  You should ideally heat up the component enough to make the solder melt when you touch the solder to the metal.  This will give a nice looking solder joint.

Take this with a grain of salt when soldering PCBs (which is what you'll be doing when soldering switches).  If you overheat the metal pad it can spread heat to the board and cause warping or melting.  There's a sweet spot of heat to apply and it may take some time and practice to get good at this.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:30:35
I'll be monitoring this thread :) thanks for the info
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 25 April 2013, 22:44:30
Not a fan of soldering wick, I like suckers more.

The best:
http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-DS017LS-Static-Safe/dp/B0019V5HRA/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1366945331&sr=8-17&keywords=solder+sucker

I have, literally, two different soldapullts in the mid tier.  Sure, neither are the ESD safe ones, but still :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:02:39
Cheap solder wick is like cheap hookers, they look nice until they don't suck. Nice wick is VERY good at sufficient temperatures. I prefer it to a sucker, but you can't just wash a roll of wick out like you can a solder sucker
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Gupgup on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:05:31
Cheap solder wick is like cheap hookers, they look nice until they don't suck. Nice wick is VERY good at sufficient temperatures. I prefer it to a sucker, but you can't just wash a roll of wick out like you can a solder sucker

Man, you love that joke :p

Not a fan of soldering wick, I like suckers more.

The best:
http://www.amazon.com/Edsyn-Deluxe-Soldapullt-DS017LS-Static-Safe/dp/B0019V5HRA/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1366945331&sr=8-17&keywords=solder+sucker

Agreed, and I just ordered this one yesterday :D


Gupgup
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:08:52
Cheap solder wick is like cheap hookers, they look nice until they don't suck. Nice wick is VERY good at sufficient temperatures. I prefer it to a sucker, but you can't just wash a roll of wick out like you can a solder sucker

Man, you love that joke :p
Gupgup
Yeah... well, I made it up the other day, though I'm sure someone has said it before me. Still funny. :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mistakemistake on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:10:56
I don't know if I'd consider the Aoyue 'baller'..  Nice list otherwise though :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:32:39
I don't know if I'd consider the Aoyue 'baller'..  Nice list otherwise though :)

It was an easy descriptor of price.  Is it worthwhile?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:36:22
cheap hookers, they look nice until they don't suck.
Something tells me you're not too aware of how hookers work...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mistakemistake on Thu, 25 April 2013, 23:38:55
I don't know if I'd consider the Aoyue 'baller'..  Nice list otherwise though :)

It was an easy descriptor of price.  Is it worthwhile?

I've used that model specifically not too long ago. I feel that the weller wes51 performs much better. The the 968 is actually a budget/entry level setup for rework stations.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 26 April 2013, 00:59:23
I don't know if I'd consider the Aoyue 'baller'..  Nice list otherwise though :)

It was an easy descriptor of price.  Is it worthwhile?

I've used that model specifically not too long ago. I feel that the weller wes51 performs much better. The the 968 is actually a budget/entry level setup for rework stations.

Would you say that a rework station would be a good idea for those that want to do light SMD stuff plus other soldering or should that be left to more experienced people?

(I'm asking these questions in as much as to get them out for people to read as anything.)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:06:18
Aoyue in general is well priced for what it offers, but it's not really a high end brand, especially that model you linked. I have a Aoyue rework station, but a higher end one. A hakko or weller with similar features would be in the thousand $ range.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:14:57
I would pick eutectic solder instead. I might include flux in that list as well, and I would move most of what you have put under required to recommended.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 26 April 2013, 01:20:13
I would pick eutectic solder instead. I might include flux in that list as well, and I would move most of what you have put under required to recommended.

Flux added and header changed to recommended.

Aoyue in general is well priced for what it offers, but it's not really a high end brand, especially that model you linked. I have a Aoyue rework station, but a higher end one. A hakko or weller with similar features would be in the thousand $ range.

That's fair, and like I said (and could stand to be more clear in OP, admittedly) the baller tag was solely for the amount of money more than anything else.

Again, though, is a rework station too much for a typical geekhacker?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 26 April 2013, 02:02:22
Yeah, rework station is overkill for keyboards. Hot air is great and all, but there are not a lot of opportunities to use it for keyboards. You won't be able to solder or desolder with hot air when switches are around, because they'll melt. There are not many cases where you're forced to do SMD soldering, and even if you are, you can do it perfectly fine with just an iron. The only thing you really need for good soldering is ~$40 variable temp iron, rosin-core solder, and a sponge. Add in a solder sucker or desoldering iron if you ever desolder switches. Separate flux is highly recommeded, but everything else is just accessories (helping hands, magnifying glass, spool holder, etc).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 26 April 2013, 07:46:47
I agree. I seldom use a spool holder as well as a magnifying glass, but they're nice to have when needed.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 26 April 2013, 08:07:33
One of these tip cleaners is much better than a sponge, IMHO
http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Cleaner-599B-02-Non-Corrosive-Needed/dp/B000PDQORU
I would never use a sponge on my nice fine tips.

Also, that reminds me, you need very small soldering tips for SMD work, get good ones.  Also always chisel or screwdriver tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Fri, 26 April 2013, 10:15:09
Surprised no one has suggested the Hakko 808 Desoldering Kit (http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Desoldering-Kit-With-808/dp/B000ARPULW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1366989249&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+desoldering). Probably overkill for most folks, but I think it could be listed as "baller".  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 26 April 2013, 10:17:44
FWIW, that 808 is used at Mechanical Keyboards
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 April 2013, 10:22:47
I did suggest it! :P

It's not overkill. It's the best time saver if you do much desoldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: xavierblak on Fri, 26 April 2013, 10:50:37
As another desoldering option I like the spring-loaded plunger style vs the blub. But it's probably all what you get used too.

http://www.amazon.com/Tenma-21-8240-Vacuum-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B008DJRYIG/ref=sr_1_18?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1366990910&sr=1-18&keywords=Desoldering
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 26 April 2013, 10:51:32
For first time solders I suggest an old alarm clock or VCR or some similar product that will have lots of through hole components. You will have the opportunity to rip something apart, as well as learn to desolder, and resolder if you're ambitious. Better to screw over a VCR than a $100+ keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 April 2013, 11:01:54
If you want to buy an Edsyn Soldapullt for desoldering, please buy it direct from Edsyn. Their customer service phone number is 818-989-2324. Their customer service reps are very friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful. They will also usually quote you a lower price than what is listed on their web site (www.edsyn.com). The DS017 is the one I bought from them.

I have a hunch that some of the "Soldapullt" tools sold by Techni Tool through Amazon are knockoffs. Also, I know Amazon is convenient, but they are evil. Don't buy from Amazon, buy direct!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 26 April 2013, 13:53:01
Also, no one took note of eutectic solder. Why do you keep using 60/40? Perhaps there is a reason I have missed there?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 April 2013, 13:55:41
Also, no one took note of eutectic solder. Why do you keep using 60/40? Perhaps there is a reason I have missed there?

I use 63/37 Kester "44" now. I used to use 60/40, but now I know better. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:27:00
If you want to buy an Edsyn Soldapullt for desoldering, please buy it direct from Edsyn. Their customer service phone number is 818-989-2324. Their customer service reps are very friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful. They will also usually quote you a lower price than what is listed on their web site (www.edsyn.com). The DS017 is the one I bought from them.

I have a hunch that some of the "Soldapullt" tools sold by Techni Tool through Amazon are knockoffs. Also, I know Amazon is convenient, but they are evil. Don't buy from Amazon, buy direct!
the silverstat deluxe st least isnt a knock off someone contacted edsyn and they said they brand if for them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:27:31
Also, no one took note of eutectic solder. Why do you keep using 60/40? Perhaps there is a reason I have missed there?

I use 63/37 Kester "44" now. I used to use 60/40, but now I know better. :)
63/37=60/40 solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:27:34
Ok so i need some good which what brand shout i be looking at maye some other specs
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:29:29
Also, no one took note of eutectic solder. Why do you keep using 60/40? Perhaps there is a reason I have missed there?

I use 63/37 Kester "44" now. I used to use 60/40, but now I know better. :)
63/37=60/40 solder.
4% silver solder>62/36/2>63/37>60/40
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:29:35
this is right up my alley. Looking to do some small electronics work this summer. better believe i've got this thread on notify

Related note, how bad for you IS solder smoke? I'm sort of planning on getting set up in an attic becuase it's otherwise unused (sort of like alone time) but there are no windows, and running any sort of venting would require crawling through the rafters which really isn't my cup of tea. Is it possible to use lead free solder and not worry about the fumes, or is there some sort of air purifier that I could invest in that would clean the crap out of the air as I work? Maybe a mask?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:32:49
I ordered one of those cheap "Yihua 936" Hakko clones from HobbyKing. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:37:06
Also, no one took note of eutectic solder. Why do you keep using 60/40? Perhaps there is a reason I have missed there?

I have several sizes of 63/37 for PCBs and electronics, and one small roll of 60/40 in size 0.040" just to tin my iron tips. It's a good practice to use 63/37 composition for all PCB related stuff, but it's not really mission critical to do so, so 60/40 will be ok. Price difference between 63/37 and 60/40 is only a few bucks for a whole roll, so might as well get the better one.

The composition with silver is just an utter waste of money for keyboard soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Fri, 26 April 2013, 14:52:23
Great thread.

I will need to pick up a couple of these to change my switches.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 26 April 2013, 15:31:50
this is right up my alley. Looking to do some small electronics work this summer. better believe i've got this thread on notify

Related note, how bad for you IS solder smoke? I'm sort of planning on getting set up in an attic becuase it's otherwise unused (sort of like alone time) but there are no windows, and running any sort of venting would require crawling through the rafters which really isn't my cup of tea. Is it possible to use lead free solder and not worry about the fumes, or is there some sort of air purifier that I could invest in that would clean the crap out of the air as I work? Maybe a mask?

http://www.thebgawarehouse.com/Aoyue-486-ESD-safe-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch&adtype=pla&gclid=CL2Zl6uW6bYCFQVV4AodKjYAPg I'll put this here tentatively for discussions for now.

Added 63/37 solder.

Also, will be getting my soldering equipment plus materials to build a dedicated soldering area soon and will post pictures if I remember.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 26 April 2013, 16:12:55
http://www.thebgawarehouse.com/Aoyue-486-ESD-safe-Benchtop-Solder-Smoke-Absorber?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch&adtype=pla&gclid=CL2Zl6uW6bYCFQVV4AodKjYAPg I'll put this here tentatively for discussions for now.

Duly noted. Thanks.

Might I suggest throwing a multimeter on the OP as well? for a lot of DIY projects if you're dealing with soldering, you might have to know power flow too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 26 April 2013, 17:18:11
I use eutectic solder (63/37) myself.  I like Kester 245 with the no-clean rosin, 0.020".
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 27 April 2013, 00:37:53
I'll gladly put popular multimeter options up.  I like fluke, but they're expensive.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Gupgup on Sat, 27 April 2013, 00:40:19
Hey WFD or anyone that knows, I'm looking for a flux pen similar to the one WFD uses in his SMD video, anyone know a good one?


Gupgup
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 27 April 2013, 01:01:36
I'm surprised no one mentioned flux yet. There are several types: Rosin, water soluble, an no-clean. Just get the no-clean stuff because it's volatile and the excess just evaporate after a certain time. The other fluxes should be cleaned because they're corrosive to the contact points. And if you're going to clean flux, use isopropyl alcohol (99% if you can find it, available on amazon). I use SRA no-clean flux pen.

tjcaustin, maybe list SRA in the OP. It's a go-to place for all soldering products, and they have a lot of in-house stuff.

http://sra-solder.com/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Gupgup on Sat, 27 April 2013, 01:08:19
http://sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=7040

This one? Thanks for the quick reply bud.


Gupgup
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 27 April 2013, 01:09:36
I'm surprised no one mentioned flux yet. There are several types: Rosin, water soluble, an no-clean. Just get the no-clean stuff because it's volatile and the excess just evaporate after a certain time. The other fluxes should be cleaned because they're corrosive to the contact points. And if you're going to clean flux, use isopropyl alcohol (99% if you can find it, available on amazon). I use SRA no-clean flux pen.

tjcaustin, maybe list SRA in the OP. It's a go-to place for all soldering products, and they have a lot of in-house stuff.

http://sra-solder.com/

People have mentioned flux, but discussions haven't really solidified into recommendations of what to get.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 27 April 2013, 01:14:12
I use plumbers flux when I really need flux. Otherwise I just don't use flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 27 April 2013, 01:35:39
Not sure if you're just stating that or recommending, but you shouldn't use plumbing flux for PCBs. Or at least clean it completely off afterwards. Plumber flux is acidic so it works well for very oxidized and corroded surfaces, but the flux itself causes corrosion over time. Flux is cheap, just get the correct kind.


http://sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=7040 (http://sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=7040)

This one? Thanks for the quick reply bud.

Yeah that's the one. It's basically the same thing as the Kester 951 flux pen.

http://www.amazon.com/Kester-951-Soldering-Low-Solid-No-Clean/dp/B004X4KOWS (http://goo.gl/hZKDj)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 27 April 2013, 01:36:35
I seldom use it, not recommended, but it works.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Sat, 27 April 2013, 09:04:39
I seldom use it, not recommended, but it works.

And for the noobs monitoring this thread, when and how do you use the flux?

It doesn't appear to be necessary on keyboards, but apparently it "cleans things up". What exactly does it clean and how do you use it to clean?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 27 April 2013, 09:11:59
Related note, how bad for you IS solder smoke? I'm sort of planning on getting set up in an attic becuase it's otherwise unused (sort of like alone time) but there are no windows, and running any sort of venting would require crawling through the rafters which really isn't my cup of tea. Is it possible to use lead free solder and not worry about the fumes, or is there some sort of air purifier that I could invest in that would clean the crap out of the air as I work? Maybe a mask?

Leaded solder used to give me ridiculous headaches if I didn't use the vents in the room after like 15 minutes. I would HIGHLY recommend you don't solder in an enclosed space until you figure out how to ventilate the area. I think Kawa posted how to make some cheap fume sucker/blow/fan things made out of cheapo Walmart fans and ducting. Let me go see if I can find it...or maybe Smallfry will see this post and link it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 27 April 2013, 09:46:59
I use plumbers flux when I really need flux. Otherwise I just don't use flux.

You'd better get a proper flux pen to do that SMD work, bro.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 28 April 2013, 16:56:45
Hm, to build a manly table out of wood, sweat and blood or buy a plastic folding table like I use for my bedroom desk...

This is a question that you all should answer here.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 28 April 2013, 17:11:29
Hm, to build a manly table out of wood, sweat and blood or buy a plastic folding table like I use for my bedroom desk...

This is a question that you all should answer here.
Make one yourself. I built one in like 2-3 hours out of wood and used an MDF sheet as a top. Sturdiest desk I have ever owned and only cost about £30. + It's huge
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 28 April 2013, 17:18:03
Hm, to build a manly table out of wood, sweat and blood or buy a plastic folding table like I use for my bedroom desk...

This is a question that you all should answer here.
Make one yourself. I built one in like 2-3 hours out of wood and used an MDF sheet as a top. Sturdiest desk I have ever owned and only cost about £30. + It's huge

That's exactly what I'm planning (I have a "scrap" piece of 3cm MDF that's a little over 1 sq meter).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 28 April 2013, 17:20:06
Hm, to build a manly table out of wood, sweat and blood or buy a plastic folding table like I use for my bedroom desk...

This is a question that you all should answer here.
Make one yourself. I built one in like 2-3 hours out of wood and used an MDF sheet as a top. Sturdiest desk I have ever owned and only cost about £30. + It's huge

That's exactly what I'm planning (I have a "scrap" piece of 3cm MDF that's a little over 1 sq meter).

Melamine fiberboard should make a good top, just try not to burn through it
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 28 April 2013, 17:21:35
Hm, to build a manly table out of wood, sweat and blood or buy a plastic folding table like I use for my bedroom desk...

This is a question that you all should answer here.
Make one yourself. I built one in like 2-3 hours out of wood and used an MDF sheet as a top. Sturdiest desk I have ever owned and only cost about £30. + It's huge

That's exactly what I'm planning (I have a "scrap" piece of 3cm MDF that's a little over 1 sq meter).
Sweet. How're you planning to do the frame?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 28 April 2013, 22:11:02
Hm, to build a manly table out of wood, sweat and blood or buy a plastic folding table like I use for my bedroom desk...

This is a question that you all should answer here.
Make one yourself. I built one in like 2-3 hours out of wood and used an MDF sheet as a top. Sturdiest desk I have ever owned and only cost about £30. + It's huge

That's exactly what I'm planning (I have a "scrap" piece of 3cm MDF that's a little over 1 sq meter).
Sweet. How're you planning to do the frame?

2x4s.  Pics will come as I actually build. Gotta rearrange garage.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Sun, 28 April 2013, 22:31:51
Leaded solder used to give me ridiculous headaches if I didn't use the vents in the room after like 15 minutes. I would HIGHLY recommend you don't solder in an enclosed space until you figure out how to ventilate the area. I think Kawa posted how to make some cheap fume sucker/blow/fan things made out of cheapo Walmart fans and ducting. Let me go see if I can find it...or maybe Smallfry will see this post and link it.

Incidentally I got a couple large lab tables from a school sale (they were demoing it and selling everything that wasn't being replaced, 2 high quality tables for 10 bucks each, woot.) so I just set the whole thing up where my PC is now located.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 28 April 2013, 23:44:39
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0183_zps0d7030d7.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0183_zps0d7030d7.jpg.html)

Today's work included cleaning, reorganizing the garage and getting power to where I wanted to set up my work area.  Here's where I stopped:
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0184_zps77ecd47f.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0184_zps77ecd47f.jpg.html)

Tomorrow, I'll either be running to a fry's/wherever else to get the rest of my equipment and then building the table itself.  Expect a basic write-up with materials used when it's finished.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Mon, 29 April 2013, 13:01:21
If you want to buy an Edsyn Soldapullt for desoldering, please buy it direct from Edsyn. Their customer service phone number is 818-989-2324. Their customer service reps are very friendly, knowledgeable, and helpful. They will also usually quote you a lower price than what is listed on their web site (www.edsyn.com). The DS017 is the one I bought from them.

I have a hunch that some of the "Soldapullt" tools sold by Techni Tool through Amazon are knockoffs. Also, I know Amazon is convenient, but they are evil. Don't buy from Amazon, buy direct!

I'm just letting everyone know that I ordered mine from Amazon, received it today, and can confirm that it comes with the original Edsyn packaging. Thus, I think it's safe to assume that the ones sold on Amazon are original, not knock offs.

Edit: I took a pic of the unopened product

(http://i.imgur.com/2lySkNo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 29 April 2013, 18:14:17
here's the same magnifying lamp as the one in the OP for a buck cheaper, and if you have Prime you get free 2 day shipping.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0038D8O7W/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and is this thing worth it over the damp sponge?

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Cleaner-599B-02-Non-Corrosive-Needed/dp/B000PDQORU/ref=pd_sim_hi_4
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bearcat on Mon, 29 April 2013, 19:55:57
the damp sponge causes a sharp drop in temp at the tip, whether that's damaging or not is up to you.  At $10, i think it's a no-brainer but YMMV.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bearcat on Mon, 29 April 2013, 20:00:15
And to answer a question from earlier in the thread:

Flux is used to help make solder "flow" onto the hot sides of the joint.  The flux melts at a lower temperature than the solder, and it basically cleans the impurities/oxidization/whatever off the metal, which lets the solder bond against the metal.  It's usually some kind of pine or spruce rosin.  Exposure to fumes is not really good -- beyond the obvious things it would do to you like irritate your lungs, it makes you more sensitive to the fumes, which sets up the kind of feedback loop you want to avoid on your body.  Have a window open or a fan.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 29 April 2013, 20:05:13
Might I suggest throwing a multimeter on the OP as well? for a lot of DIY projects if you're dealing with soldering, you might have to know power flow too.

As TJ mentioned, Fluke is the cream of the crop for multimeters.

Here's my input.
I purchased this multimeter awhile back: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JQ4O2U/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It works really well and is a good price, currently at $33.  One thing I like about it is that the terminals light up to indicate which ones the leads should be connected to.  This is really helpful if you're anything like me and cannot for the life of you remember to switch terminals when switching from voltage to current.  A minor feature, but appealing nonetheless.
In addition to that, it reads voltages, currents, and confirms continuity.  Everything I want it to.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 30 April 2013, 20:30:02
60/40 solder link was busted, so that was deleted.

Replaced the hakko fx888d and magnifying lamp link with cheaper options for both.  Added a hakko fx808 link that was from same seller as the 888d
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: wcass on Tue, 30 April 2013, 21:14:40
do we have anyone here that does fine SMD work for pay? i have a project that need more skill then what i have. i need to mount 1.5mm square package on 7 pads (x14). the PCB is 12" x 6".
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 30 April 2013, 21:25:50
I'm sure there are a handful that will give you a shout.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Glissant on Tue, 30 April 2013, 22:33:37
Weller WLC100, extra tips and flux ordered.
Thanks a lot for this guide, tjcaustin! Really came in handy, and I am sure it will continue to come in handy for me in the future too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 01 May 2013, 05:53:46
To echo what Glissant said, I think I've referred a ton of ppl to this thread already and I'm going to be buying a Weller soon myself. Thanks for compiling all this into one thread TJ
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 01 May 2013, 09:56:01
Because flames make everything cooler faster...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Soldering-Station-W-Flame-Decals-RC-Slot-Racers-/171029853721

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Soldering-Station-W-Flame-Decals-RC-Slot-Racers-/00/s/ODgxWDE2MDA=/z/3S8AAOxyJs5RZFSp/$T2eC16NHJHYE9nzpcw03BRZFSozog!~~60_57.JPG)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 01 May 2013, 09:57:45
JD, does that mean you solder faster too?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 01 May 2013, 10:44:17
Pace howto - uses $silly tools and tips but is still of interest:

NASA soldering requirements - good for everyone: http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20General%20Requirements.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Wed, 01 May 2013, 10:47:24
Because flames make everything cooler...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Soldering-Station-W-Flame-Decals-RC-Slot-Racers-/171029853721

If I could get just the decals, I would totally buy that.  :p They're silly and I'd probably regret doing it, but I still think it's fun.

BTW, I setup my soldering station over the weekend.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8403/8695426887_5e601d361c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/)
Ready To Solder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/) by Michael Ashby (http://www.flickr.com/people/mashby/), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 01 May 2013, 11:31:32
I found branded decals for the Hakko 936 (or it's clone, the Yihua 936).

Purchase 936 decals here:
(blue) http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=70,289&PID=4564&Page=1 $17.37 + tax
(orange) http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=4565&Page=1

HobbyKing has the Yihua 936: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_USA_Warehouse_.html $16.51 + $13.11 shipping

(http://www.hakkousa.com/AHPDirect/images/936-skins2.jpg)



mashby found the Hakko branded decals for the FX-888 on HakkoUSA.com.

Purchase FX-888 decals here: http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=5027&Page=1 $16.67 + tax

(http://www.hakkousa.com/AHPDirect/images/DECAL-FXBY.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 01 May 2013, 13:24:48
Because flames make everything cooler faster...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Soldering-Station-W-Flame-Decals-RC-Slot-Racers-/171029853721

Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888-Digital-Soldering-Station-W-Flame-Decals-RC-Slot-Racers-/00/s/ODgxWDE2MDA=/z/3S8AAOxyJs5RZFSp/$T2eC16NHJHYE9nzpcw03BRZFSozog!~~60_57.JPG)


The carbon fiber is the fast maker
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Wed, 01 May 2013, 13:44:24
I do not see any cutters mentioned  yet and thought this might help others

Xcelite 170M General Purpose Shearcutter, Diagonal, Flush Jaw, 5" Length, 3/4" Jaw length, Red Grip
http://www.amazon.com/Xcelite-170M-General-Shearcutter-Diagonal/dp/B0002BBZIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367433764&sr=8-1&keywords=xcelite+170m


edit: 100th post! w00t!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 01 May 2013, 13:46:16
I do not see any cutters mentioned  yet and thought this might help others

Xcelite 170M General Purpose Shearcutter, Diagonal, Flush Jaw, 5" Length, 3/4" Jaw length, Red Grip
http://www.amazon.com/Xcelite-170M-General-Shearcutter-Diagonal/dp/B0002BBZIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367433764&sr=8-1&keywords=xcelite+170m

Not really needed for keyboards other than cutting LED wires, but still extremely useful


Another item to add might be a precision screw driver set
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Wed, 01 May 2013, 13:55:31
I couldn't find the branded decals yet for the Hakko FX-888, but I did find some for the Hakko 936 (or it's clone, the Yihua 936).

Purchase 936 decals (only blue available) here: http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?CID=70,289&PID=4564&Page=1 $17.37 + tax

HobbyKing has the Yihua 936: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_USA_Warehouse_.html $16.51 + $13.11 shipping

More
Show Image
(http://www.hakkousa.com/AHPDirect/images/936-skins2.jpg)

LOL it's like Hotwheels for grown-ups
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Wed, 01 May 2013, 15:35:25
They have the decals for the solder holder - http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=5027&Page=1
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 01 May 2013, 15:47:28
They have the decals for the solder holder - http://www.hakkousa.com/detail.asp?PID=5027&Page=1

That will actually cover an entire FX-888. It just shows half the decals. I just ordered one!

Nice find! Did you go through all their part numbers or something? I couldn't find it linked in their system, but I didn't dig too deep, I guess.

Edit: I guess I could have searched on the site for "DECAL" huh?  :confused:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 01 May 2013, 16:31:11
NASA soldering requirements - good for everyone: http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20General%20Requirements.html

Man NASA sure has a lot of rules. . . what do they think this is, Rocket Sci. . . oh.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Thu, 02 May 2013, 01:37:24
At ~$56 best bang for your buck is the UNI-T UT61E DMM. Just make sure you clean the leads with alcohol when you receive it.
Some reviews show it overshoots but others don't, it could be fixed on newer revisions?
It is one of the best DC and AC DMM that also has TRUE RMS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT61E-AC-DC-Modern-Digital-Multimeter-gl-/251267628025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a80b7bbf9

It has nice feature that tests smd components and  resistors with ease .

(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1413.jpg)(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1428.jpg)

Quote
The test socket that is included can be used when measuring resistors and capacitors, both SMD and leaded components. It can also be used for transistor test, but not on this DMM model. Including this type of test socket is much safer than making extra holes in the meter for test connections.
Note: This socket uses the mAuA terminal, instead of the COM terminal, i.e. it requires that the meter supports this.

Some reviews.
More

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Thu, 02 May 2013, 10:33:10
could someone suggest a flux pen? I know there are alot of different types of flux and wanted to make sure I didn't get the wrong kind.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 02 May 2013, 11:08:15
If anyone is interested in a quality soldering station, but you can't really afford more than $50 for an iron, some used Hakko 936 soldering bases with iron holders just popped up on eBay for $25 plus shipping each. There are 6 left as of now, since I bought 2 of them. This is the discontinued predecessor to the Hakko FX-888, which is also now discontinued, replaced by the Hakko FX-888D. You will need to purchase a Hakko 907 soldering iron to go with it, which you can get for $9 shipped.

You could get the Weller WLC100 soldering station brand new for about the same price, but the WLC100 doesn't have an actual temp control, it only varies the wattage to the iron.

Hakko 936 base (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281102057599) $25 + shipping

Hakko 907 iron (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251077570894) $8.99 + FS



could someone suggest a flux pen? I know there are alot of different types of flux and wanted to make sure I didn't get the wrong kind.

This one looks good to me: http://sra-solder.com/product.php/7045/141/sra_99_20_rma_rosin_flux_pen_refillable
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 02 May 2013, 12:07:36
If anyone is interested in a quality soldering station, but you can't really afford more than $50 for an iron, some used Hakko 936 soldering bases with iron holders just popped up on eBay for $25 plus shipping each. There are 6 left as of now, since I bought 2 of them. This is the discontinued predecessor to the Hakko FX-888, which is also now discontinued, replaced by the Hakko FX-888D. You will need to purchase a Hakko 907 soldering iron to go with it, which you can get for $9 shipped.

You could get the Weller WLC100 soldering station brand new for about the same price, but the WLC100 doesn't have an actual temp control, it only varies the wattage to the iron.

Hakko 936 base (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281102057599) $25 + shipping

Hakko 907 iron (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251077570894) $8.99 + FS

That's pretty nifty.  Right now I'm using a Weller with a homemade wattage adjuster made from a rotary dimmer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Thu, 02 May 2013, 13:25:14
I just desoldered and soldered my first switch. Feels good, man. :)

I'm using the  Weller WLC100 40-Watt Soldering Station (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and the Edsyn Deluxe Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019V5HRA/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

Thanks for all the info guys, WFD especially.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 02 May 2013, 13:25:44
If your looking for some nice pliers and cutters look no further than lindstrom, the yellow 80 series is the way to go.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 03 May 2013, 01:05:57
BTW, I setup my soldering station over the weekend.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8403/8695426887_5e601d361c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/)

Ready To Solder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/) by Michael Ashby (http://www.flickr.com/people/mashby/), on Flickr

I know that's not my youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ_2GxeR4Es#t=9s) on your notebook's screen...



could someone suggest a flux pen? I know there are alot of different types of flux and wanted to make sure I didn't get the wrong kind.

It was just on the previous page:

http://www.amazon.com/Kester-951-Soldering-Low-Solid-No-Clean/dp/B004X4KOWS (http://goo.gl/hZKDj)
http://sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=7040 (http://sra-solder.com/product.php?xProd=7040)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 03 May 2013, 12:55:43
so looking at some Kester no clean flux solder whats better 245, 275, or 285
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 03 May 2013, 13:30:37
BTW, I setup my soldering station over the weekend.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8403/8695426887_5e601d361c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/)

Ready To Solder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/) by Michael Ashby (http://www.flickr.com/people/mashby/), on Flickr

I just noticed that diskman in the background.  Way to rep it old school.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:05:08
BTW, I setup my soldering station over the weekend.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8403/8695426887_5e601d361c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/)

Ready To Solder (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mashby/8695426887/) by Michael Ashby (http://www.flickr.com/people/mashby/), on Flickr

I know that's not my youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ_2GxeR4Es#t=9s) on your notebook's screen...

You better BELIEVE it!  :cool:  I needed a refresher before I started.


I just noticed that diskman in the background.  Way to rep it old school.

LOL! I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that. I totally forgot that thing was still around. The funniest part was that there was a disc in it -- the soundtrack from Hackers (http://www.amazon.com/Hackers/dp/B000005OMF). ROTFLMAO!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:08:19
LOL! I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that. I totally forgot that thing was still around. The funniest part was that there was a disc in it -- the soundtrack from Hackers (http://www.amazon.com/Hackers/dp/B000005OMF). ROTFLMAO!


Your walkman doesn't have a PCI Bus to make it faster.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:09:14
Ha! I was just about to post this:

Quote
                                KATE
                    What the hell are you doing?

                                DADE
                    It's cool, I'm just looking.

                                KATE
                    It's too much machine for you.

                                DADE
                    Yeah?

        Dade starts working furiously on it.

                                KATE
                    I hope you don't screw like you type.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:10:03
Ha! I was just about to post this:

Quote
                                KATE
                    What the hell are you doing?

                                DADE
                    It's cool, I'm just looking.

                                KATE
                    It's too much machine for you.

                                DADE
                    Yeah?

        Dade starts working furiously on it.

                                KATE
                    I hope you don't screw like you type.

Great minds think alike, I guess :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:15:08
LOL! I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that. I totally forgot that thing was still around. The funniest part was that there was a disc in it -- the soundtrack from Hackers (http://www.amazon.com/Hackers/dp/B000005OMF). ROTFLMAO!
At least it's not a cassette player or records. Now those are ancient


so looking at some Kester no clean flux solder whats better 245, 275, or 285

Any reason why you need no-clean if you're using solder wire? For keyboard application, it won't matter much between those 3. Just get the cheapest one. No-clean is good for liquid flux doing SMD work because most of it will just evaporate away.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 03 May 2013, 16:32:50
The hackers soundtrack was AWESOME.  I still listen to it.  The movie was lame, lets be honest, but definitely a cult classic.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 04 May 2013, 01:45:39
Work area is ready and waiting for the soldering stuff that should have gotten here today, I'll post pics and a how-to if anyone cares.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 04 May 2013, 07:56:00
Yes please TJ. I'd like some pics and refreshers ^_^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:40:47
Table ingredients:

   1 - 33” x 49” sheet of .25” MDF (part a) (It doesn’t have to be exactly this, I had it laying around and build the rest to a 24” x 48” surface)

   3 - 2” x 4” x 144” woodstuff
   Specific cuts:
      4 - 24” length (part b)

                4 - 30” length (part c)
      
      4 - 48” length (part d)

   72 - 3” wood screws (connector e)

Solder spool ingredients:

   1 - .25” dowel

   2 - 4” eye screws

   2 - Hitch pin clips
 
Miscellaneous station ingredients:

   1 - 24” under cabinet light (I may add another)
   
   2 - 6 plug surge protectors (or any you’d prefer)

   1 - 2” hook screw (to hang heat gun on)

   1 - Focal XS Bookshelf speaker set up (or whatever speakers you want to use.  Music is important)
   
   1 - monitor with hdmi input

   1 - roku


How to Put Table Together (derived from - http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/04/04/how-to-make-a-work-bench/):

   1. Screw everything together in a logical manner that resembles a table, if you’ve somehow managed to make anything that isn’t table-esque, continue to step 2.

   2. Take one (1) part D and caress it tenderly, but be careful for splinters (not the sensei).  Butt it perpendicularly at one end with an end of one (1) part B.

   3. Use three (3) of connector E to join these two pieces of wood together in wooden matrimony.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0255_zps89bea1df.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0255_zps89bea1df.jpg.html)

   4. At the other end of the currently stroked part D, intersect another part B and use three (3) more screws to turn this into a three-way of woodiness.

   5. As you have now began the frame for your table top, it is time to complete it by first taking one (1) part D and six (6) of connector E to repeat steps three (3) twice (two times) at the opposing end of parts B.

   6.  Time for center support, take one (1) of your remaining to (2) part D and gently slide it into place halfway between the other tue (2) part Ds (heh, double Ds) that are already attached.  This should be at approximately twelve (12) inches from either edge of parts B.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0265_zps8c467b6b.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0265_zps8c467b6b.jpg.html)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0264_zps17b37763.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0264_zps17b37763.jpg.html)

   7.  Congrats, you’ve finished the basic frame for the tabletop to attach to.  You deserve a reward and break, but not beer, though.

   8. Back from your break?  Good, it’s time to complete the bottom leg supports and attach the legs of your table to it, and then attach that to what you just finished.

   9.  Remember back when you started, how you followed the directions numbered two through four?  Go do it again, but remember you only have one more of part D left.

   10. Take one (1) of part C and firmly push it into the left corner of the C shape (get it?) that you’ve just created.  Use three (3) of connector E to ensure that it does not, and cannot, fall over in the lure of that mistress of mistresses, gravity.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0258_zps63a0fb51.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0258_zps63a0fb51.jpg.html)

   11.  Do step ten (10) again on the right side of your C shape.

   12. At the left side of the open end of your C, use three (3) of connector E to attach another (this is number three (3) (four (4), if you’re back from step thirteen (13)) of part C to this end.  Be sure to space it back just far enough to be able to smoothly slide into the top frame later.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0268_zps2931b1a6.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0268_zps2931b1a6.jpg.html)

   13. Go do that again on the last corner that doesn’t have a thirty (30) inch vertical piece of timber attached to it.

   14.  Oh boy, are you excited?  You should be, it’s time to put the frame of your tabletop on the reinforced legs you just made.  Read on to find out how.

   15. Follow the rule “Work smarter, not harder” by having your top frame laying flush on the ground.

   16. Take your table legs and rotate them one hundred eighty (180) degrees so as your C shape is up in the air, as if it just don’t care.

   17.  Did you make sure those leg ends were in the corners of the top piece, where everything would be nice and flush and ready for a lot (12 at least) of connector E to join it all together?  Why not?  Do that now.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0269_zps6ed79d51.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0269_zps6ed79d51.jpg.html)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae270/tjcaustin/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0267_zps5185f77f.jpg) (http://s978.photobucket.com/user/tjcaustin/media/Soldering%20workbench/IMG_0267_zps5185f77f.jpg.html)

   18. Welp, good job building an upside-down table, genius.  Go buy something prebuilt from a hardware store and cry.  Or be a man and flip dat shiii pi (π) radians (don’t worry, I’ll wait for you to figure it out.  Be sure to use at least 180 digits of the number that represents pi(π) to calculate what it would be in degrees).

   19.  Hey, you have a table skeleton and it’s the correct side up now.  High five, you’re almost at the finish line.

   20. Place part A (eyyyy!) on top of table, but do not celebrate just yet as that could just slide off at any time of its own accord (not the car).  Use ten (10) to fifteen (15) (fourteen (14) is good, too) of connector E to ensure that your tabletop will never run away as part of your neighbor’s subwoofer box.

   21.  Know how I said you couldn’t celebrate just a few minutes ago (it was just a few, right?  It’s just screws. BTW, I should have mentioned this before, but if you don’t have a powered screwdriver (also known as a drill, electric screwdriver or that green thing that spins the fake dong in those special videos you watch), you’re going to have a bad time.  Seriously, screwing all these screws manually?  What are you, a heathen?)  You should celebrate the fact that you have completed a table and now may die a complete man (or lady).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:43:47
Nice butt....


























...joints that is (it's funny because those are butt joints)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 05 May 2013, 14:47:32
I like butt joints and I cannot lie.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 05 May 2013, 15:32:39
Good thread.

No one has mentioned all of the little hand tools that make a complicated soldering job so much easier.  Mine are at work, so I'll add them tomorrow.

Also, heat guns are worth getting quality to make heat shrink shrink instead of melt or burn.  And continuity testers, which used to be built into every DMM, but now are a hard to find extra item.  But again, they make some jobs (e.g. testing a hard-wired keyboard matrix) so much easier.

Finally, somewhere on the bench should be a variable power supply.  Most circuits eventually need electricity, and having a source for 1.5, 3.3, 5, 7, 12v, etc. is totally handy.

A window is good, too.  Mmmm, lead smoke...

 - Ron I samwisekoi
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 05 May 2013, 15:52:12
Good thread.

No one has mentioned all of the little hand tools that make a complicated soldering job so much easier.  Mine are at work, so I'll add them tomorrow.

Also, heat guns are worth getting quality to make heat shrink shrink instead of melt or burn.  And continuity testers, which used to be built into every DMM, but now are a hard to find extra item.  But again, they make some jobs (e.g. testing a hard-wired keyboard matrix) so much easier.

Finally, somewhere on the bench should be a variable power supply.  Most circuits eventually need electricity, and having a source for 1.5, 3.3, 5, 7, 12v, etc. is totally handy.

A window is good, too.  Mmmm, lead smoke...

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Thoughts about something like this? http://www.adafruit.com/products/184?gclid=COP5pZnp_7YCFYtT4AoddhYAWg I'm thinking I can build a variable power supply what with how I've built this nice set up and all.

I continually forget to add a smoke absorber link, but that's done now, too.  Heat gun and dmm are added, as well.  I'll add tools later.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pentype on Sun, 05 May 2013, 16:06:11
I have this:
Radio Shack de-soldering iron w/bulb - http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731

I can report that it works well for larger solder joints, however for smaller joints on the bottomside of the pcb, i have found it more effective to "blow" the solder by pushing the bulb instead of sucking it in. It usually turns up on the other side as a solder bead, cools quickly enough not to harm anything.

Iron Works in reverse also, but you have to melt down some solder in a ceramic container, and suck into the top chamber and let it reheat. Solder flows from tip to heated components pretty nicely.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sun, 05 May 2013, 16:56:33
That Sinometer is junk a cheap rebrand ( can't calibrate and not very accurate ), I was doing research on which is the best DMM to buy and the one i posted earlier is the best bang for your buck and not that much more than that junky meter.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: linziyi on Sun, 05 May 2013, 17:05:10
How long does it take to process the whole keyboard? (assuming it is a TKL)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Mon, 06 May 2013, 09:43:07
Gonna try and get into soldering but having a hard time finding some of these equipment in Singapore since shipping is way too expensive for a station lol. hopefully i'll be able to find some of these in hardware stores. D:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Mon, 06 May 2013, 09:44:35
quick question: whats the difference between the 63/37 solder vs no clean ones? No clean ones are nearly twice as expensive :/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 06 May 2013, 11:00:24
standard 63/37 have rosin as flux, which leaves a residue after you solder. No-clean has a different type of flux. Just get the normal rosin-core one and leave the flux on there. It doesn't really damage keyboards.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Mon, 06 May 2013, 11:39:54
So I'm considering getting a Honeywell HPA-050 for an alternative take on filtering solder fumes. There are papers (http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/8/511.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=lead+oxide+fumes&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&fdate=1/1/1844&tdate=6/30/2007&resourcetype=HWCIT) which suggest that filtration of flux smoke and such are not sufficient with just a regular carbon filter, and that a combination of activated carbon and 99.97+ HEPA is needed.

Professional units do exactly that, but cost $ludicrous. I'm thinking that placing such a desktop filter a few inches away from the soldering area will work just as well, though. If anyone else knows of an approach that combines the two types of filtering in a compact format (DIY or othewise) on the cheap, speak up!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 07 May 2013, 08:58:26
standard 63/37 have rosin as flux, which leaves a residue after you solder. No-clean has a different type of flux. Just get the normal rosin-core one and leave the flux on there. It doesn't really damage keyboards.

And soap and water and a toothbrush cleans it off if you dislike the discoloration.

So I'm considering getting a Honeywell HPA-050 for an alternative take on filtering solder fumes. There are papers (http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/8/511.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=lead+oxide+fumes&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&fdate=1/1/1844&tdate=6/30/2007&resourcetype=HWCIT) which suggest that filtration of flux smoke and such are not sufficient with just a regular carbon filter, and that a combination of activated carbon and 99.97+ HEPA is needed.

Professional units do exactly that, but cost $ludicrous. I'm thinking that placing such a desktop filter a few inches away from the soldering area will work just as well, though. If anyone else knows of an approach that combines the two types of filtering in a compact format (DIY or othewise) on the cheap, speak up!

Fan.  Window.  Keep children away.  Done.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Tue, 07 May 2013, 09:06:51
aights lol, thanks :D

Still having a hard time scouting all the equip here!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 07 May 2013, 09:18:31
Fan.  Window.  Keep children away.  Done.

Not an option - my soldering equipment will be far away from a window, can't have heat loss in winters, and I sleep in the same room. Also I'm still a child (mentally).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Tue, 07 May 2013, 12:16:54
My makeshift soldering station :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Tue, 07 May 2013, 13:01:19
My makeshift soldering station :p

until a swich pops off in a weird angle and you will never find it again :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Tue, 07 May 2013, 13:04:27
My makeshift soldering station :p

until a swich pops off in a weird angle and you will never find it again :)

High stakes soldering. Casuals need not apply.  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:17:24
FYI in the OP the link to the 888D links to the 888. Not complaining as the digital display seems like a PITA.

Is the Weller really worth 15 bucks more than the Hakko? Not that I know anything about anything, but it looks less impressive to me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:22:14
FX-888 is discontinued. FX-888D is the replacement. Although, you might still be able to find some new old stock 888's somewhere.

FWIW, I don't have a problem using the 888D...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:33:49
FX-888 is discontinued. FX-888D is the replacement. Although, you might still be able to find some new old stock 888's somewhere.

That's what i'm saying, in the OP he states the link is for the 888D, but it links to an ebay listing for the 888.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:38:39
FX-888 is discontinued. FX-888D is the replacement. Although, you might still be able to find some new old stock 888's somewhere.

That's what i'm saying, in the OP he states the link is for the 888D, but it links to an ebay listing for the 888.

That seller (niosales), still has the item listing for the 888. But they send you the 888D. So why not save the $8? :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:43:34
I understand now. Really confusing that he didn't change the name of the listing, but noted that he'll send you the D in the description.

To be honest, I think the analog dial and the fact that it's 'MURICA make me lean towards the Weller. It looks clunky and weird, but that's exactly the style that would seem to have high build quality. American Made seems to mean it's either bull**** garbage, or somebody actually took pride in producing it, and from the reviews this doesn't look like garbage.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 07 May 2013, 16:46:26
Is the Weller WES51 still in production? I thought it had also been replaced by a digital version, the WESD51.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: winged mantis on Tue, 07 May 2013, 18:49:02
Is the Weller WES51 still in production? I thought it had also been replaced by a digital version, the WESD51.

The WES51 is on Amazon. I have one and it works nicely for keyboards as long as you set the heat low enough.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 08 May 2013, 12:32:12
as far as the solder goes, I can't see myself needing a full pound of it at any time in the near future. are there smaller packs available for a reasonable price? Brands to look for?  as far as solder goes, are all brands more or less the same thing? I can hit up my local RadioShack and look  for some 63/37 .31 solder, if that's what most suggest for switches.

Basically I only need a 5 dollar small pack of the stuff, not a 30 dollar pound box. I understand that the pound is a better value, I just can't see when i'd need it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 08 May 2013, 13:24:03
Most places where your going to get a good price only sell the pound as they mostly do sell to individuals. If you want I can sell you some off my roll.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 08 May 2013, 15:32:15
Most places where your going to get a good price only sell the pound as they mostly do sell to individuals. If you want I can sell you some off my roll.

Would it still be worth it after shipping?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Michael on Wed, 08 May 2013, 16:01:36
SHAMELESS SELF-PLUG:


High quality soldering gear available here at a bargain price ;) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43174.0)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 08 May 2013, 16:07:27
SHAMELESS SELF-PLUG:


High quality soldering gear available here at a bargain price ;) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43174.0)

^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 08 May 2013, 16:58:04
Just ordered a Hakko FX-888D.  Seems like a solid machine, despite looking a bit like a toy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 08 May 2013, 17:00:29
Just ordered a Hakko FX-888D.  Seems like a solid machine, despite looking a bit like a toy.


AMG!

SHAMELESS SELF-PLUG:


High quality soldering gear available here at a bargain price ;) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43174.0)

^

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 08 May 2013, 17:20:15
regular 888 is an excellent station, the best hobbyist station that's been released in the last 20 years. i expect the 888d to only be better (calibration, their n2 pseudo-hot-air prework unit, etc)...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 08 May 2013, 19:49:25
Just ordered a Hakko FX-888D.  Seems like a solid machine, despite looking a bit like a toy.


AMG!

SHAMELESS SELF-PLUG:


High quality soldering gear available here at a bargain price ;) (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43174.0)

^

Are you posting that because I should have gotten BroCaps' deal?  I definitely wanted to, but he wanted 325 for the whole set and wouldn't split it up.  Nothing wrong with that, I just don't have cash like that with all these keyboards I've been buying.  :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 08 May 2013, 20:16:45
Well, I bet you could have worked it out with one of the two people that want the desoldering gun.  But that's neither here nor there, enjoy the station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 08 May 2013, 21:11:57
Oh, bummer!  Wish I had seen that people wanted the desolderer!  Ahhh well, too late, like you said.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 08 May 2013, 22:09:20
For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Wed, 08 May 2013, 22:20:06
So I ordered a "Weller WES51 Analog Soldering Station" from amazon and it came in a box that was taped shut.

When I took of the tip, it looked like there was some evidence of usage.  Can anyone confirm if this is normal for a brand new iron?


[attach=1][attach=2]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 08 May 2013, 22:35:17
For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?


Me, personally, I'd say a simple 25 watt Weller with a pencil tip, some good rosin-core solder, a sponge and an old VCR.  Maybe a de-soldering bulb too.  Then get some copper wire and maybe some resistors and start soldering stuff together and melting it apart.  Your goal is to make the solder flow like silver without touching it directly with the iron.

Get a little bit of solder on the iron, then touch it to the wire. Then touch the solder to the wire.  At first your solder joints wil be blobby, ugly, and grey.  That is a cold solder joint and you have to melt it away and try again.

This will go on for a while until suddenly you will see the solder flow like a living thing into the spot where you want it.  That is your first good solder joint, and it is really satisfying.  Keep practicing until they always look like that.

Then toss that starter gear into a tool chest and go buy some nice gear.  But go learn with a good-enough little 25 watt Weller.

 - Ron I samwisekoi
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 08 May 2013, 23:56:33
So I ordered a "Weller WES51 Analog Soldering Station" from amazon and it came in a box that was taped shut.

When I took of the tip, it looked like there was some evidence of usage.  Can anyone confirm if this is normal for a brand new iron?


(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Appears to be used. I'd wait for another conformation though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 09 May 2013, 00:01:07
Yeah it looks slightly used to me, too. Someone probably used it to solder a few things, then RMA'd it back to where you bought it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheQsanity on Thu, 09 May 2013, 00:10:44
Who has a Dremel and knows what grinding tip is used for aluminum? All the stones I have just get clogged up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 09 May 2013, 04:12:08
Never done alu all i know it stainless eat those stones like crazy :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 09 May 2013, 08:56:42
there's a diamond coated grinding tip in the dremel catalog. it's small though, more of an engraver than a grinder. there's also a slightly larger version that i have, but i don't remember offhand how big it is. nowhere near as big as the stones. since the diamond is just straight up harder than the alu it should last quite a bit longer.

hmmmmmmmm... anyone want to trade an 888 for an 888d? :D i want dat calibration :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 09 May 2013, 08:56:52
For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?

That's, like, the entire point of this thread dude.  OP!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 09 May 2013, 09:13:40
For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?

That's, like, the entire point of this thread dude.  OP!!


I gotta remember to read the OP more often  ::)

 
For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?


Me, personally, I'd say a simple 25 watt Weller with a pencil tip, some good rosin-core solder, a sponge and an old VCR.  Maybe a de-soldering bulb too.  Then get some copper wire and maybe some resistors and start soldering stuff together and melting it apart.  Your goal is to make the solder flow like silver without touching it directly with the iron.

Get a little bit of solder on the iron, then touch it to the wire. Then touch the solder to the wire.  At first your solder joints wil be blobby, ugly, and grey.  That is a cold solder joint and you have to melt it away and try again.

This will go on for a while until suddenly you will see the solder flow like a living thing into the spot where you want it.  That is your first good solder joint, and it is really satisfying.  Keep practicing until they always look like that.

Then toss that starter gear into a tool chest and go buy some nice gear.  But go learn with a good-enough little 25 watt Weller.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Thanks Ron! I've actually got a cordless phone I might attempt to repair just for kicks, once I get an idea of what I'm doing.  8)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Sai on Thu, 09 May 2013, 10:10:42
For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?


Me, personally, I'd say a simple 25 watt Weller with a pencil tip, some good rosin-core solder, a sponge and an old VCR.  Maybe a de-soldering bulb too.  Then get some copper wire and maybe some resistors and start soldering stuff together and melting it apart.  Your goal is to make the solder flow like silver without touching it directly with the iron.

Get a little bit of solder on the iron, then touch it to the wire. Then touch the solder to the wire.  At first your solder joints wil be blobby, ugly, and grey.  That is a cold solder joint and you have to melt it away and try again.

This will go on for a while until suddenly you will see the solder flow like a living thing into the spot where you want it.  That is your first good solder joint, and it is really satisfying.  Keep practicing until they always look like that.

Then toss that starter gear into a tool chest and go buy some nice gear.  But go learn with a good-enough little 25 watt Weller.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

For someone who has never ever even attempted soldering and just wants to get started what do you all recommend as far as initial equipment?


Me, personally, I'd say a simple 25 watt Weller with a pencil tip, some good rosin-core solder, a sponge and an old VCR.  Maybe a de-soldering bulb too.  Then get some copper wire and maybe some resistors and start soldering stuff together and melting it apart.  Your goal is to make the solder flow like silver without touching it directly with the iron.

Get a little bit of solder on the iron, then touch it to the wire. Then touch the solder to the wire.  At first your solder joints wil be blobby, ugly, and grey.  That is a cold solder joint and you have to melt it away and try again.

This will go on for a while until suddenly you will see the solder flow like a living thing into the spot where you want it.  That is your first good solder joint, and it is really satisfying.  Keep practicing until they always look like that.

Then toss that starter gear into a tool chest and go buy some nice gear.  But go learn with a good-enough little 25 watt Weller.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Thank you Ron. I am going to practice this weekend. :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 09 May 2013, 11:30:07
I had read (maybe even in this thread, who knows), that getting an old 2 dollar VCR, etc., at a garage sale, and desoldering a bunch of stuff, then attempting to "fix" it is a good way to get some experience with soldering. Doesn't really net you much, but if you break the VCR who cares.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 09 May 2013, 11:58:23
Forget the dusty old VCR.  Build a GH60!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 09 May 2013, 11:59:17
Or an Epsilon  ;)

The hottest new custom around ^__^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 09 May 2013, 14:01:57
Forget the dusty old VCR.  Build a GH60!

Isn't the GB closed? If I could get my hands on one I'd consider it. A lot to know about layouts, mapping of switches (unless you do your whole board the same, but where's the fun in that) cases, etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:36:11
I want to start to solder...laugh at me and all,

but is the WLC100 a good start?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:37:31
I want to start to solder...laugh at me and all,

but is the WLC100 a good start?

Yes, but you could spend like $30 bucks more and have a hakko instead
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:38:05
I got 2 from amazon that had beat up boxes and burn marks...sent them both back

Trying the Hakko 888D (on order)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:39:37
I want to start to solder...laugh at me and all,

but is the WLC100 a good start?

I just started soldering and I have the WLC 100. I've had an easy time soldering with it. You may want to get an Edsyn Desoldering Pump because it made my desoldering effortless.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:42:44
Yes, but you could spend like $30 bucks more and have a hakko instead
I got 2 from amazon that had beat up boxes and burn marks...sent them both back
Trying the Hakko 888D (on order)

Sounds like i should wait until summer, so i will have a job and can pay for the hakko. Thanks for the advice

I just started soldering and I have the WLC 100. I've had an easy time soldering with it. You may want to get an Edsyn Desoldering Pump because it made my desoldering effortless.

shall look into that as well
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:49:07
Sounds like i should wait until summer, so i will have a job and can pay for the hakko. Thanks for the advice

The Hakko was only like $15 more on amazon than the weller
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Fri, 10 May 2013, 16:56:23
Are weller and hakko tips different?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Sat, 11 May 2013, 00:29:04
Are weller and hakko tips different?

yes as far as i know.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 11 May 2013, 05:01:40
This was just asked to me, so I figured I also mention it in this thread since it hasn't been brought up yet: if you want to clean up all the rosin and flux after soldering, you can use kimwipes with isopropyl alcohol.

Kimwipes are really for lab environment, but I use it because they're disposable microfiber tissues to prevent scratching, and also won't leave any lint fibers. For the cleaning solution, 99% isopropyl alcohol works well. Spray on a decent amount, and let it sit for a minute or two to disolve all the flux, then scrub with a brush or Q-tips, and finally finish it off with kimwipes. Alternatively, you can also literally submerge the whole PCB under a bowl (or bucket) of isopropyl alcohol, then take it out and air dry. Try not to use buy the cheapo isopropyl alcohol you find in walmart type stores. Those are weak and diluted.


http://www.amazon.com/Kimtech-Science-KimWipes-Delicate-Wiper/dp/B0013HT2QW (http://goo.gl/oS2e6)
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Cleaner/dp/B005DNQX3C/ref=pd_sim_indust (http://goo.gl/azolZ)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z7nCAxS2Rg#t=28m12s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z7nCAxS2Rg#t=28m12s)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Sat, 11 May 2013, 12:02:23
I need to get myself some 99% isopropyl.  I have 75% from the grocery, but I can only use it very carefully with qtips
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 12:55:48
I need to get myself some 99% isopropyl.  I have 75% from the grocery, but I can only use it very carefully with qtips

Anything 91% and above is great since it has <10% of water ( and dries cleaner ) and the 91% is more accessible than the 99%. You can visit your local drugs store and see if you can score some 99% and if you live in the states you can get one here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-99-Isopropyl-Rubbing-Alcohol-16-oz-PINT-EXP-09-2015-/140929545956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d00e36e4) and save some gas money.

Edit:

I also suggest taking off that rebranded DMM from OP, i wouldn't suggest that meter since it isn't accurate and the quality isn't much better than the $20 DMMs out there. Sure it has some features but it isn't a good entry point DMM.

This meter would be considered a much better suggestion and competes with $100+ DMMs out there.

At ~$56 best bang for your buck is the UNI-T UT61E DMM. Just make sure you clean the leads with alcohol when you receive it.
Some reviews show it overshoots but others don't, it could be fixed on newer revisions?
It is one of the best DC and AC DMM that also has TRUE RMS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT61E-AC-DC-Modern-Digital-Multimeter-gl-/251267628025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a80b7bbf9

It has nice feature that tests smd components and  resistors with ease .

Show Image
(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1413.jpg)
Show Image
(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1428.jpg)


Quote
The test socket that is included can be used when measuring resistors and capacitors, both SMD and leaded components. It can also be used for transistor test, but not on this DMM model. Including this type of test socket is much safer than making extra holes in the meter for test connections.
Note: This socket uses the mAuA terminal, instead of the COM terminal, i.e. it requires that the meter supports this.

Some reviews.
More
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 15:51:33
That would hold water if not for every review of the meter I have posted, while admitting it's a rebranded MASTECH, saying that it's a fine multimeter with good accuracy, range and durability.

Oh and "it competes well with 100+ DMMs", too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:08:07
That would hold water if not for every review of the meter I have posted, while admitting it's a rebranded MASTECH, saying that it's a fine multimeter with good accuracy, range and durability.

Oh and "it competes well with 100+ DMMs", too.

Hahahaha, that brought tears to my eyes, I needed that laugh. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mandolin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:11:49
For the ones that speak spanish, rosin is called "pez/P de castilla". Also one could make flux directly out of tree resin with isopropylic alcohol, ideally pine because it is specially acid and a weak acid is needed to dissolve the outer corrosion layer of soldering. If too rusted, use some sandpaper.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:24:39
That would hold water if not for every review of the meter I have posted, while admitting it's a rebranded MASTECH, saying that it's a fine multimeter with good accuracy, range and durability.

Oh and "it competes well with 100+ DMMs", too.

Hahahaha, that brought tears to my eyes, I needed that laugh. Thanks.

That's cool, don't suggest that DMM again, thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:40:13
I guess this is communist Russia time or better yet China  :)) where information is a no-no.

I'll just leave this here for others to read since I assume, I still have that right and maybe next time post some proper reviews. That meter might be good at a $20 price point but not when it is in the price range of the meter i suggested and trust me i have done my research and can back it up.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/good-budgetish-multimeter/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:42:31
Listen, you can be ****ty somewhere else, I don't really care.  But the fact remains that every time you brought up that other DMM, I looked into and compared the two and found nothing tangible for the usage that would justify the price difference.

Call it whatever you want, just call it that somewhere else and stop ****ting in my thread.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 18:48:39
Listen, you can be ****ty somewhere else, I don't really care.  But the fact remains that every time you brought up that other DMM, I looked into and compared the two and found nothing tangible for the usage that would justify the price difference.

Call it whatever you want, just call it that somewhere else and stop ****ting in my thread.

All I am trying to do is inform my fellow GHackers that there are other options out there with much better precision and actual options that are used in real world, I would expect someone to do the same for me. You may not think it but this thread will influence many readers and i just want them to have their facts straight before they purchase something they might regret later.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:04:08
See:  Be ****ty elsewhere.

To imply that I don't think this thread will have any influence is borderline insulting as that's exactly why I wrote it.  Just because I didn't fall over myself to add your suggestion, doesn't mean the opposite.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Glissant on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:10:09
I think it was more the fact that you laughed at what tjcaustin said, Thechemist. It shows very little respect for what tjcaustin is doing in this thread, and it contributes nothing to the conversation other than to show that you are another person to claim that his own research is the only research.

The DMM that has been suggested is fine. The one you suggested is also fine.
I suggest that we go back to the serious business of the keyboards and solder now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:11:55
Well, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were intelligent enough to do your homework before you post things here.  You either don't think this thread will influence people, which you already admitted that it does, than the only other thing left is to assume you are ..........
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:16:56
Well, come on then, you had the balls to get that far.  Call me stupid, *******.

I would think the one that is clearly acting like he doesn't know what the phrase "reading comprehension" means shouldn't be talking down about someone else's intelligence.

Especially since it's based off of some rather bold assumptions that I didn't research your suggestion three (3) separate times and made the same judgement call that the additional umph was worth muddling the choices.  I feel like I just said this, too...

So again, go be ****ty elsewhere.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:20:50
I think it was more the fact that you laughed at what tjcaustin said, Thechemist. It shows very little respect for what tjcaustin is doing in this thread, and it contributes nothing to the conversation other than to show that you are another person to claim that his own research is the only research.

The DMM that has been suggested is fine. The one you suggested is also fine.
I suggest that we go back to the serious business of the keyboards and solder now.

I tried to suggest nicely at first that there are better options out there and my suggestions were just dismissed when i was just trying to help others. I also posted thorough reviews from reputable sources as you will see below. Tjcaustin was actually disrespecting me with his language and tone not I.

At ~$56 best bang for your buck is the UNI-T UT61E DMM. Just make sure you clean the leads with alcohol when you receive it.
Some reviews show it overshoots but others don't, it could be fixed on newer revisions?
It is one of the best DC and AC DMM that also has TRUE RMS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT61E-AC-DC-Modern-Digital-Multimeter-gl-/251267628025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a80b7bbf9

It has nice feature that tests smd components and  resistors with ease .

Show Image
(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1413.jpg)
Show Image
(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1428.jpg)


Quote
The test socket that is included can be used when measuring resistors and capacitors, both SMD and leaded components. It can also be used for transistor test, but not on this DMM model. Including this type of test socket is much safer than making extra holes in the meter for test connections.
Note: This socket uses the mAuA terminal, instead of the COM terminal, i.e. it requires that the meter supports this.

Some reviews.
More

That Sinometer is junk a cheap rebrand ( can't calibrate and not very accurate ), I was doing research on which is the best DMM to buy and the one i posted earlier is the best bang for your buck and not that much more than that junky meter.

I need to get myself some 99% isopropyl.  I have 75% from the grocery, but I can only use it very carefully with qtips

Anything 91% and above is great since it has <10% of water ( and dries cleaner ) and the 91% is more accessible than the 99%. You can visit your local drugs store and see if you can score some 99% and if you live in the states you can get one here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-99-Isopropyl-Rubbing-Alcohol-16-oz-PINT-EXP-09-2015-/140929545956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d00e36e4) and save some gas money.

Edit:

I also suggest taking off that rebranded DMM from OP, i wouldn't suggest that meter since it isn't accurate and the quality isn't much better than the $20 DMMs out there. Sure it has some features but it isn't a good entry point DMM.

This meter would be considered a much better suggestion and competes with $100+ DMMs out there.

At ~$56 best bang for your buck is the UNI-T UT61E DMM. Just make sure you clean the leads with alcohol when you receive it.
Some reviews show it overshoots but others don't, it could be fixed on newer revisions?
It is one of the best DC and AC DMM that also has TRUE RMS.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT61E-AC-DC-Modern-Digital-Multimeter-gl-/251267628025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a80b7bbf9

It has nice feature that tests smd components and  resistors with ease .

Show Image
(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1413.jpg)
Show Image
(http://lygte-info.dk/pic/UNI-T/UT61E/DSC_1428.jpg)


Quote
The test socket that is included can be used when measuring resistors and capacitors, both SMD and leaded components. It can also be used for transistor test, but not on this DMM model. Including this type of test socket is much safer than making extra holes in the meter for test connections.
Note: This socket uses the mAuA terminal, instead of the COM terminal, i.e. it requires that the meter supports this.

Some reviews.
More

I guess this is communist Russia time or better yet China  :)) where information is a no-no.

I'll just leave this here for others to read since I assume, I still have that right and maybe next time post some proper reviews. That meter might be good at a $20 price point but not when it is in the price range of the meter i suggested and trust me i have done my research and can back it up.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/good-budgetish-multimeter/


Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:24:42
Well, come on then, you had the balls to get that far.  Call me stupid, *******.

I would think the one that is clearly acting like he doesn't know what the phrase "reading comprehension" means shouldn't be talking down about someone else's intelligence.

Especially since it's based off of some rather bold assumptions that I didn't research your suggestion three (3) separate times and made the same judgement call that the additional umph was worth muddling the choices.  I feel like I just said this, too...

So again, go be ****ty elsewhere.

Please stop, I never called you stupid, you called yourself that.  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 11 May 2013, 19:25:48
Cool story bro.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 12 May 2013, 09:26:07
I have the world's crappiest meter from back in my poor college days and for simple keyboard work it is plenty.  It seriously doesn't matter... The electronics aren't sensitive enough.  If anyone wants a really good one that will be dependable for many years,  get a Fluke and be done with it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 13 May 2013, 12:04:32
(http://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/derailment-jpg.96771/)

So I picked up "Getting started in Electronics" by Forrest M. Mims III over the weekend, already about 50 pages in. It's all pretty basic stuff so far, but it's pretty useful information if you're looking to do work with circuitry and electronics. Others who are looking to get a foothold in the electronics world might do well to start here.

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Electronics-Forrest-Mims/dp/0945053282/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368464739&sr=8-1&keywords=getting+started+in+electronics+by+forrest+m.+mims+iii
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 13 May 2013, 16:57:57
I want to start to solder...laugh at me and all,

but is the WLC100 a good start?

Yes, but you could spend like $30 bucks more and have a hakko instead

which hakko should i be looking for?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Mon, 13 May 2013, 16:58:59


which hakko should i be looking for?

888D - mine should come today.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:01:18

which hakko should i be looking for?

888D - mine should come today.

the WLC100 is like ~$30
the 888D is like ~$90

am i looking at the wrong 888D?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:03:08


which hakko should i be looking for?

888D - mine should come today.

So is there some debate on the digital versus analog and proper temperature control? I was just reading some reviews on both and it seemed like some prefer one over the other but I wasn't sure if that was a personal preference or an actual real world use issue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:06:06

which hakko should i be looking for?

888D - mine should come today.

the WLC100 is like ~$30
the 888D is like ~$90

am i looking at the wrong 888D?

Perhaps TJ was thinking of the Weller WES51 not the 100
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:23:45
I want to start to solder...laugh at me and all,

but is the WLC100 a good start?

Yes, but you could spend like $30 bucks more and have a hakko instead

which hakko should i be looking for?

The current base model Hakko is the FX-888D. The previous model was the analog FX-888. You might also be able to pick up a nice used Hakko 936. The 936 was around for years, and there are plenty of nice used ones around.

Also, the Weller WLC100 is a little basic. It's just above a Radio Shack iron. The WLC100 has no real temperature control, just a dial from 1-5 which controls the wattage to the iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:41:49
So is there some debate on the digital versus analog and proper temperature control? I was just reading some reviews on both and it seemed like some prefer one over the other but I wasn't sure if that was a personal preference or an actual real world use issue.

That's what i'm concerned about. It seems like the actual adjustment is the issue, as the 888D only has 2 buttons, making precision temperatures hard to pinpoint. It also (ironically) apparently doesn't show you the actual temperature (like an oven) but rather just the target temp, which would be a huge plus on a digital iron.

At the moment i'm thinking of going with the manual weller, it looks like less of a toy, and it's 'MURICAN
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:49:00
So is there some debate on the digital versus analog and proper temperature control? I was just reading some reviews on both and it seemed like some prefer one over the other but I wasn't sure if that was a personal preference or an actual real world use issue.

That's what i'm concerned about. It seems like the actual adjustment is the issue, as the 888D only has 2 buttons, making precision temperatures hard to pinpoint. It also (ironically) apparently doesn't show you the actual temperature (like an oven) but rather just the target temp, which would be a huge plus on a digital iron.

At the moment i'm thinking of going with the manual weller, it looks like less of a toy, and it's 'MURICAN

I had also read somewhere that the 888D doesn't show the actual temperature, but rather the target temp.  Then I watched this review,
t=3m43s and at the time I've linked to it seems to be showing the actual temperature.
Maybe someone who owns one can comment further.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 13 May 2013, 17:56:15
My Hakko FX-888D appears to show the actual temperature, as it shows the temp on the display as the iron is heating up. Also, it will drop a couple degrees if you wipe the tip on a sponge with water.

The digital adjustment is precise, and not hard to set. The adjustment button only goes in one direction, up, so if you miss your target temp, you just have to go back around again. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 13 May 2013, 18:14:19
Good to hear it from the horse's mouth.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: remedyhalopc on Mon, 13 May 2013, 18:47:50
What technique do you guys use for freeing bent pins that are soldered on in between the pin and the PCB?

Just hold the tip on the leg until the solder underneath melts?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 13 May 2013, 21:34:15
I use my teeth.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 13 May 2013, 22:24:09
What technique do you guys use for freeing bent pins that are soldered on in between the pin and the PCB?

Just hold the tip on the leg until the solder underneath melts?

after desoldering a WYSE terminal board today, I really want to know why they bent the pins on some of the switch legs. It's annoying.

Ahh, so that's what you meant in the soldering thread. :)  I couldn't quite get what you were asking. Yeah, just remove the solder from the joint. Then, to remove the switch from the PCB/plate, put the tip of a phillips head screwdriver on the little nub where the switch pokes out of the PCB, and push...hard! It will pop right out of there.

I recently desoldered 12 WYSE terminal boards over a couple days. About half of them were made in Taiwan. On those boards, it looked as if they were soldered by hand, not by machine. Every solder joint had textbook solder fills that covered 100% of the solder pad and were perfectly concave. I have no idea why they bent those pins, though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: remedyhalopc on Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:00:35
The one I desoldered tonight didn't. It had the gross round solder on the bent pins instead of the concave ones.

I use my teeth.

Dang girl, you naughty.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 14 May 2013, 01:33:23
I recently got in an OKI PS900 soldering iron, and it's excellent. You can hot change tips with the base, which is really nice. The "smart heat" makes a lot of sense to me, but I know many are skeptical. I haven't tried the famous Hakko FX888[D] so I can't compare there.

The only thing I can think of about those bent pins on WYSE is that it'd help keep it in place a little better. I still have yet to try desoldering, but the last time I used my edsyn soldapullt, it was a disaster, I couldn't get it to work at all!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 14 May 2013, 11:12:05
looking to make an exhaust pipe for my solder work, thinking one of those wire and paper ducts and a 120 mm fan would work fine, eh? Just set it up to pull air and stick it out the window?

You guys figure any hardware store should have that paper ducts? Is it a good idea to use that or is there something else I should consider?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 14 May 2013, 11:13:27
looking to make an exhaust pipe for my solder work, thinking one of those wire and paper ducts and a 120 mm fan would work fine, eh? Just set it up to pull air and stick it out the window?

You guys figure any hardware store should have that paper ducts? Is it a good idea to use that or is there something else I should consider?

You can do that, or you can make an activated carbon filter and stick that on the back of your fan.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 14 May 2013, 13:23:16
looking to make an exhaust pipe for my solder work, thinking one of those wire and paper ducts and a 120 mm fan would work fine, eh? Just set it up to pull air and stick it out the window?

You guys figure any hardware store should have that paper ducts? Is it a good idea to use that or is there something else I should consider?

I've been thinking about dealing with fumes lately as well here are a few things I've found

thread by mkawa -> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40060.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40060.0)

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Fume-Extractor/ (http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Fume-Extractor/)

http://hackaday.com/2008/08/05/how-to-the-hackers-soldering-station/

this is I think is just cool not sure how much good it would really do

http://blog.makezine.com/2008/03/30/diy-fume-extractor-1/ (http://blog.makezine.com/2008/03/30/diy-fume-extractor-1/)

[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 14 May 2013, 16:45:48
that reminds me i forgot to post a picture for that thread

(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=22042;image)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 14 May 2013, 18:16:39
Is the burger king crown needed for proper operation of the fanbox?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 14 May 2013, 18:19:41
yes. such a fume extractor only works if it is coronated king of the desk.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Tue, 14 May 2013, 18:46:00
I specifically ordered a Hakko FX-888 (analog) from vendor linked by OP, and received a digital instead.  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 14 May 2013, 18:49:07
I ordered a Hakko FX-888 (analog) from vendor linked by OP, and received a digital instead.  ;D

Yes, I think it's in the OP now, but I posted a while back that you can get the new digital version for the price of the analog by ordering through niosales on eBay. It's a nice little discount. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Tue, 14 May 2013, 20:09:08
It's kinda confusing. I watched videos on the Hakko site, all I actually know how to do, is go up/down manually. I did manage to change to Celcius though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 14 May 2013, 20:26:39
anyone want to trade their 888d for an 888? :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Tue, 14 May 2013, 21:11:46
Are they different enough to take the trouble?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 14 May 2013, 23:52:50
i might be crazy enough to get the tip thermometer and calibrate a digital unit. i will add some cash if you want it. and tips! i have tons of tips (even repeats for a dumb reason; reason: i am dumb).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 14 May 2013, 23:56:15
*This* one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGITAL-THERMOMETER-SOLDERING-IRON-TESTER-Hakko-FG-100-new-/330917638576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0c3a71b0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 14 May 2013, 23:58:57
that's a fake, but yes. the real one is an extremely accurate tip thermometer and retails for 200$.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:01:34
geez. on second thought maybe i should just buy a high end hakko station with hot air and sell you guys my 888
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:19:24
*This* one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGITAL-THERMOMETER-SOLDERING-IRON-TESTER-Hakko-FG-100-new-/330917638576?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0c3a71b0

Seems pretty legit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:38:17
a single type K thermometer lead costs more than that ebay product. sorry, not legit :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:40:42
Maybe it's just stolen, bro. It could be real... :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:41:48
a single type K thermometer lead costs more than that ebay product. sorry, not legit :(

I know, the FG-100 is like $200.  :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:42:14
For keyboards, do you really need to be that accurate with temperature?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:46:15
no, i'm totally just anal beyond belief.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 15 May 2013, 00:52:34
ahaah i just remembered how much an fm-206 costs. yah, that's not happening for a while

still open to trading for an 888d! :D like old school analog dials? boy have i got a dial for you :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Wed, 15 May 2013, 10:45:22
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 15 May 2013, 10:49:05
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?

I personally wouldn't recommend it, but it is better than an unregulated cheapo iron.

If you're looking for something cheap, get this: Yihua 936 (https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19240) from HobbyKing.

I bought one for testing purposes, but there is a breakdown of it here:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 10:52:11
I prefer the analogue myself but I just picked one up but it seems I have to do an unexpected repair to it, so I have a question for you all how do they expect you to repair your soldering iron when the fix requires you to desolder and solder something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 11:15:16
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?

I personally wouldn't recommend it, but it is better than an unregulated cheapo iron.

If you're looking for something cheap, get this: Yihua 936 (https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19240) from HobbyKing.

I bought one for testing purposes, but there is a breakdown of it here:

If you set idle on the above link it will pop up with a message ( bottom right ) telling you that you can buy it for ~$15 instead of a the ~16 ( i think it takes ~5 minutes ) as a one time offer if you want to save additional $1.  ;D

here is the message:

Quote
Hello shopper!
We noticed you've been looking at this product for a while and we would like to offer you a discount. If you click on the add to cart button below we can offer you this product for $15.62.
This offer will only show once.
If you leave this page or close this window you will not see this offer again.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: metalliqaz on Wed, 15 May 2013, 11:15:34
Another soldering iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 15 May 2013, 11:17:44
I prefer the analogue myself but I just picked one up but it seems I have to do an unexpected repair to it, so I have a question for you all how do they expect you to repair your soldering iron when the fix requires you to desolder and solder something?

You just picked one up, but it already needs a repair? I would RMA it under warranty. Or you could use another soldering iron, like metalliqaz said. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 11:43:47
Another soldering iron.

I prefer the analogue myself but I just picked one up but it seems I have to do an unexpected repair to it, so I have a question for you all how do they expect you to repair your soldering iron when the fix requires you to desolder and solder something?

You just picked one up, but it already needs a repair? I would RMA it under warranty. Or you could use another soldering iron, like metalliqaz said. :)


Well I got it used so I dont think I can RMA it and yes I do have another 888 I can repair it with but what if I didnt? It was more of a conundrum as you can buy replacement parts but you still need a second soldering iron to fix it. This reminds me of computers now days for the most part you need a computer to easily diagnose and fix another one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 15 May 2013, 11:49:36
OP can be updated, the weller is 100 bucks+shipping on partsexpress, but it's only 86+free shipping on amazon. (Technically you can get 5-10 day shipping for free on P.E. but I think the super saver shipping is 5 or 3 day on Amazon and 2 day on Amazon Prime.)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=dra_a_cs_lb_hn_it_P1400_1000?tag=dradis-20

Shame I already ordered mine from P.E, live and learn.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 12:36:53
I would also recommended getting your solder from all-spec http://goo.gl/bLf3j they also have the best prices that I can find on the lindstrom tools. The only thing I would but from parts express is the WBT 4% silver solder http://goo.gl/xR3Jh as their the only one that I can find that carries it as a licensed distributor. All-Spec has also had every replacement part or accessory that ive need for and of my Hakko stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 15 May 2013, 14:04:28
dang man, I already placed my full order from PE (I did end up caving and buying the roll of solder) now i'm finding that I could have saved like 25 bucks ordering from a couple of different stores. I guess it pays to price check.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 14:45:44
dang man, I already placed my full order from PE (I did end up caving and buying the roll of solder) now i'm finding that I could have saved like 25 bucks ordering from a couple of different stores. I guess it pays to price check.

yea all-spec has the best prices on solder that ive found online but wasnt easy to find. I actually found it when I was looking for my lindstrom wire cutters and they has the best price of the places that would sell to a normal old consumer like me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 15 May 2013, 19:04:25
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?
had one for years, did not like. bad temp recovery, takes forever to heat up, etc. etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Wed, 15 May 2013, 19:11:27
FX-888 is crazy, coming from a cheap Weller iron. It heats up in like 20 seconds, not even. MFW first time turning it on ->  :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: aggiejy on Wed, 15 May 2013, 21:00:08
<3 my 888D. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: keymaster on Wed, 15 May 2013, 21:03:00
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?
had one for years, did not like. bad temp recovery, takes forever to heat up, etc. etc.

It heats up within a minute if you pre-heat on level 5, then drop it down to level 3 to use for soldering. I just finished soldering my QFR today and only had to heat it up at the start of the process.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Wed, 15 May 2013, 21:08:07
Just fired up my 888D for the first time...works like a dream.

Dropped 3 diodes on my phantom.  Got a couple left to go :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Sifo on Wed, 15 May 2013, 21:10:05
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?
had one for years, did not like. bad temp recovery, takes forever to heat up, etc. etc.

It heats up within a minute if you pre-heat on level 5, then drop it down to level 3 to use for soldering. I just finished soldering my QFR today and only had to heat it up at the start of the process.

I do the exact same thing here. WLC100 is good.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: aggiejy on Wed, 15 May 2013, 21:11:41
Just fired up my 888D for the first time...works like a dream.

Dropped 3 diodes on my phantom.  Got a couple left to go :)

Depending on the size of diodes, I recommend this tip (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8GK/ref=oh_details_o04_s02_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I was able to easily do 0603 size components with it. Maybe it's a little smaller than ideal for phantom diodes though... I just find the included standard tip huge for most keyboard work.  I originally got this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00762AGTA/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) for the super small stuff, but it was TOO small... it seemed to loose heat too fast at the end, even at full temp.

That said, there are so many hakko tips... if anyone has recommendations for keyboard work, I'd love to know!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Wed, 15 May 2013, 21:18:59
Does anyone have any experience with the Weller WLC100? I am considering buying it but I'm worried about the fact it does not have a temperature control but rather 1-5 levels instead. Any  thoughts?
had one for years, did not like. bad temp recovery, takes forever to heat up, etc. etc.

It heats up within a minute if you pre-heat on level 5, then drop it down to level 3 to use for soldering. I just finished soldering my QFR today and only had to heat it up at the start of the process.

Well I ended up buying a Hakko 936. Super excited! And it has an actual temperature controller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Wed, 15 May 2013, 22:23:08
Just fired up my 888D for the first time...works like a dream.

Dropped 3 diodes on my phantom.  Got a couple left to go :)

Depending on the size of diodes, I recommend this tip (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8GK/ref=oh_details_o04_s02_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I was able to easily do 0603 size components with it. Maybe it's a little smaller than ideal for phantom diodes though... I just find the included standard tip huge for most keyboard work.  I originally got this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00762AGTA/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) for the super small stuff, but it was TOO small... it seemed to loose heat too fast at the end, even at full temp.

That said, there are so many hakko tips... if anyone has recommendations for keyboard work, I'd love to know!


Sold - Thanks for the....wait for it.... TIP
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:13:51
I use the smallest chisel tip i think it 0.8mm as I do SMD diodes fairly frequently and some other SMD stuff every now and then. If I didnt do smd i would have just kept using the standard tip I believe a 1.6mm chisel as it was quite nice for switch though maybe a tad big for leds buts when use vertically on its side it would get the job done.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: aggiejy on Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:21:23
Well, that second tip I linked was 0.2mm... so 0.8mm certainly isn't the smallest.  But really, it's too small to do anything with that I've come across.  And I doubt many people are doing stuff smaller than 0603 by hand anyway.  (I'm talking about SMT...)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:24:09
hakko 936 is the predecessor to the 888 series. basically the same thing in older plastic. all are good workhorse irons, as is the veneral wes51. seriously, those with the wlc100. you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE MISSING. the element in the latter irons actually heats up in like 10s, STOPS heating up when it hits temp, and then recovers w/in like 2-3s after every joint. it just makes life measuably better.

also, hakko's brass ball tip cleaners are freaking awesome. sponges suck
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:24:36
Well, that second tip I linked was 0.2mm... so 0.8mm certainly isn't the smallest.  But really, it's too small to do anything with that I've come across.  And I doubt many people are doing stuff smaller than 0603 by hand anyway.  (I'm talking about SMT...)

0.8 is the smallest chisel tip and even then only had a slight chisel very close to the tip but its there
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:27:46
also, hakko's brass ball tip cleaners are freaking awesome. sponges suck

ditto, though I think the one that comes with the 888 is too small and had too small a hole to get to it. Also people the wire sponge is to clean your tip not to put it in the back of your stand let your iron sit in to well its in the stand >.>
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:34:44
Also people the wire sponge is to clean your tip not to put it in the back of your stand let your iron sit in to well its in the stand >.>

Wut?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:09:57
umm

corrected: Also people the wire sponge is to clean your tip not to put it in the back of your stand let your iron sit in it well its in the stand >.>


basically the 888 i just bought used has the wire sponge where the tip of the iron ends up when you place the iron in the stand and the heat completely wrecked the wire sponge and who knows what it did to that tip. I just changed the tip right away when I got it because it looked very worn to me and i use a different size anyway.


EDIT: correcter. sorry, I made sure to give the cellular phone a talking to snf gave it a time out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 16 May 2013, 02:33:53
basically the 888 i just bought used has the wire sponge where you tip of the iron ends up when you place the iron in the stand and the hear completely wrecked the wire sponge and who knows what it did to that tip I just changed it when I got it because it looked very worn to me and i use a different size anyway.

lol what? This is barely understandable. You need a keyboard with auto-correct.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Thu, 16 May 2013, 02:42:12
... yes you're not supposed to have the metal sponge in the rear compartment.  :-X
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 16 May 2013, 03:02:55
... yes you're not supposed to have the metal sponge in the rear compartment.  :-X

no as constant heat wrecks it and there is a nice spot with a hole in the front and if you take the bottom off you have easy access to put the sponge in. I know no one reads manuals but im pretty sure that thats in there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dndlmx on Thu, 16 May 2013, 03:11:25
Hakko has videos online.
I didn't know the bottom came off, at first. I stuffed the wire sponge through the front hole.  ^-^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 16 May 2013, 14:20:19
another thing is that I have bever had a helping hand that has lasted longer that a couple months they just seem to fall apart and it doesnt seem to matter at which price point I buy them either as their all mad just about the same. I bought a panavise instead http://goo.gl/WrQRF I havnt a clue if that a good price or not as I didnt get it from there. the one bad thing about the suction cup model os it only works on non porous surfaces since it a suction cup but now all the surfaces i work on are porous so im thinking about getting 2 of the ones your supposed to bolt to you workbench and mounting them to a board?

Also i would recommended good full spectrum lighting it makes everything so much easier to see I bought 2 of these http://amzn.to/19tQJSN but that was before you could just get light bulbs http://amzn.to/19tR1sO So now I would just buy a set of those bulbs and a pair of these http://amzn.to/19tRgUJ (they also have ones with stands for those of you cant clamp it to your table/desk/workbench.

for hand desoldering pumps I recommended either http://goo.gl/5r45g or http://goo.gl/4MhbZ they do also make which I would like but http://goo.gl/4qGAX but I havnt been able to find it anywhere but direct from them and their shipping is crazy high.

the Hakko 808 is a great desoldering iron from my experience but the price is steep compared to just a hand pump. But if you do get one I would recommend getting http://amzn.to/19tTyTJ so you have a stand to put it in and http://amzn.to/19tTNhR so you can tun it off without have to unplug the darn thing.

The Hakko 633-01 is also in my eyes a huge upgrade from the standard stand the comes with the 888 and the whole for the wire sponge and wire sponge it self is much larger. Another benefit is that paint chips dont come off and get stuck to your iron. i personally thought that it was a bit light when I received it so I added a bunch of lead weight to it since I had it lying around but I think that a personal preference thing. Also for those of you people that prefer a normal sponge the 633-02 is the same stand just with a standard sponge.

I have a multimeter and it seems pretty nice but I havnt a clue what brand or anything as i got it for a present one year, though it does support monitoring from a PC though a serial port. The heat gun that I have is just a standard milwaukee dual temp ehich I think is all I need right now and I was able to pick it up at the local Fleet Farm with a gift card I received. Its basically fool proof which most of their heat guns are, just dont get the digital read out one i know a few people that have had it and they only complain and usually returning it for one of their more simple models.

I also would recommend some nice hand tools as I had a crescent set and a set from radio shack that under regular use broke, dulled, or just plain wore out rather quickly. Lindstom was recommended to me so i bought a single wire cutter that I though fit what I  was using the old ones for and that was the model 8148 which has been wonderful not even a sign of wear yet. I plan to but a few more different pairs of cutters and pliers. But from what I have been told by a few people that use their products is stay from the ergonomic squishy handled blue ones as it feels like you have much less control well using them. They also have nice tweezers and though I havnt bought I assume their build is just as good as their pliers. As for screwsrivers i was recommended Moody Tools if your in the US their quality is supposedly bar none http://goo.gl/vCMIM this is the set i hope to purchase at some point http://amzn.to/12ekZhK replacing my craftsman set http://goo.gl/6gUwA which at the time was the only set i could find that had all the sizes I needed for ripping apart laptops. it is by no means great most of the chrome ones have lost their coating the rubber grip just spins on many of them bit I guess the do the job.

As for solder I use Kester 44 either 63/37 or 62/36/2. Also for some of my own projects I use WBT 4% silver solder http://goo.gl/xR3Jh


Hopefully this was all helpful and if you have any questions let me know.



on a side note I am looking for some nice solder wick and I was recommended chemtronics but i have no idea what kind I should get otherwise.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Sat, 18 May 2013, 20:53:04
Just got my Hakko 936 today. It is everything I dreamt it would be  :p
(http://i.imgur.com/WAsmVCz.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 18 May 2013, 23:46:19
HAH! ebay. honestly, i think you got yourself a deal right there. iron is flawless and power source looks well loved -- probably well taken care of. just scrub the crap out of that holder and pick up a http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-599B-02-Solder-Cleaning-Sponge/dp/B000B6344M and you're good to go.

wiha makes the best small electronics hand tools in the world imo. snap on makes the best large mechanicals hand tools and compressor tools.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:07:53
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43796.msg900769#msg900769

Nifty smd soldering video from GON.

Why isn't this a sticky?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:41:22
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43796.msg900769#msg900769

Nifty smd soldering video from GON.

Why isn't this a sticky?

idk but it should be especially with my wall-o-text above ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:47:36
HAH! ebay. honestly, i think you got yourself a deal right there. iron is flawless and power source looks well loved -- probably well taken care of. just scrub the crap out of that holder and pick up a http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-599B-02-Solder-Cleaning-Sponge/dp/B000B6344M and you're good to go.

wiha makes the best small electronics hand tools in the world imo. snap on makes the best large mechanicals hand tools and compressor tools.

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/accessories/miscellaneous.htm

2 of the brass sponges but without a holder for much cheaper :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:48:22
Why isn't this a sticky?

Because it's a niche skill within a niche hobby. Stickies tend to be more general.

I've linked mine for building two GH60 in the actual GB thread, but since this is a soldering thread I'll link it here too. It's a comprehensive soldering of components, including the controller chip. I didn't have a bevel tip, so I couldn't do the drag method that GON did. Videos are a bit long though ;/



Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:50:24
Why isn't this a sticky?

Because it's a niche skill within a niche hobby. Stickies tend to be more general.



Because lubing switches is totes mainstream, right?

Whereas soldering, no one does that besides hardline keyboard modders
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:51:27
Why isn't this a sticky?

Because it's a niche skill within a niche hobby. Stickies tend to be more general.



Because lubing switches is totes mainstream, right?

Whereas soldering, no one does that besides hardline keyboard modders

hmm,done you have to desolder to properly lube in most cases?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:52:24
Because lubing switches is totes mainstream, right?

Whereas soldering, no one does that besides hardline keyboard modders

Yea you're right, not sure why that lubing thread is a sticky. It actually takes desoldering and soldering skill first before you can lube. Maybe PM a mod to take that lube thread off and replace with this thread.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 22 May 2013, 00:56:03
Because lubing switches is totes mainstream, right?

Whereas soldering, no one does that besides hardline keyboard modders

Yea you're right, not sure why that lubing thread is a sticky. It actually takes desoldering and soldering skill first before you can lube. Maybe PM a mod to take that lube thread off and replace with this thread.

Sticky them both? i mean you can lube without opening up the switches but its no where near as effective.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 22 May 2013, 01:04:15
Because lubing switches is totes mainstream, right?

Whereas soldering, no one does that besides hardline keyboard modders

Yea you're right, not sure why that lubing thread is a sticky. It actually takes desoldering and soldering skill first before you can lube. Maybe PM a mod to take that lube thread off and replace with this thread.

Sticky them both? i mean you can lube without opening up the switches but its no where near as effective.

I mean you can remove a plate without desoldering  but its no where near as effective.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 22 May 2013, 01:08:16
Because lubing switches is totes mainstream, right?

Whereas soldering, no one does that besides hardline keyboard modders

Yea you're right, not sure why that lubing thread is a sticky. It actually takes desoldering and soldering skill first before you can lube. Maybe PM a mod to take that lube thread off and replace with this thread.

Sticky them both? i mean you can lube without opening up the switches but its no where near as effective.

I mean you can remove a plate without desoldering  but its no where near as effective.



nope ive lubed a bunch of keyboards back when ripster was still around using spray in lubes which were actually effective though I never used one of those keyboards long enough to see how long the lube lasted
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Sat, 25 May 2013, 21:04:02
@anyone with experience on solder wicks: what width of a solder wick should I be looking at? Also how long should I be getting? (Should last me at least 10 keyboards of desoldering lol)

I gotta order online even for these (mainly due to my work schedules), so it would be best if I can get a set that would last me for abit..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Sun, 26 May 2013, 00:50:36
@anyone with experience on solder wicks: what width of a solder wick should I be looking at? Also how long should I be getting? (Should last me at least 10 keyboards of desoldering lol)

I gotta order online even for these (mainly due to my work schedules), so it would be best if I can get a set that would last me for abit..

I am got some 2mm width wicks.
Seems like most, if not all of them are 1.5meters. I would say get 3-4 rolls. Try to also use a desoldering pump.
Using wicks exclusively might be a waste of resources.

Farnell/element14 has some for $3-$4 USD a roll.
Make sure the ones you get are laced with flux. The ones without are almost useless. Adding flux works but its a ton of mess to clean, and not as effective.

I got the Edsyn soldasip "lead free" . Not sure what are the difference between these and normal ones except that they are more suited for Pb free solder I guess. I chose it because it comes with rosin flux.

Previously was using chemtronics wick with no clean flux but my solder wires have rosin flux. So, while cleaning the rosin flux, the no clean ones came off as well and made a lot of sticky mess. A beginner mistake.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Sun, 26 May 2013, 04:11:12
@anyone with experience on solder wicks: what width of a solder wick should I be looking at? Also how long should I be getting? (Should last me at least 10 keyboards of desoldering lol)

I gotta order online even for these (mainly due to my work schedules), so it would be best if I can get a set that would last me for abit..

I am got some 2mm width wicks.
Seems like most, if not all of them are 1.5meters. I would say get 3-4 rolls. Try to also use a desoldering pump.
Using wicks exclusively might be a waste of resources.

Farnell/element14 has some for $3-$4 USD a roll.
Make sure the ones you get are laced with flux. The ones without are almost useless. Adding flux works but its a ton of mess to clean, and not as effective.

I got the Edsyn soldasip "lead free" . Not sure what are the difference between these and normal ones except that they are more suited for Pb free solder I guess. I chose it because it comes with rosin flux.

Previously was using chemtronics wick with no clean flux but my solder wires have rosin flux. So, while cleaning the rosin flux, the no clean ones came off as well and made a lot of sticky mess. A beginner mistake.

Hope this helps.


Ah, thanks for pointing me to element14 again. I went there before while I was looking for the soldering station and found them to be expensive but their pumps/wick seems reasonably priced :D

I did find some 30metres wick from a Singapore website but thats probably overkill I guess :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Sun, 26 May 2013, 04:16:14
Mmm, how do you tell if they are laced with flux or not?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 26 May 2013, 05:25:43
Found a solder similar to the Kester 44. There is much less of but at a similar price per ounce since I doubt anyone is really going to need 1lbs of solder for keyboards. And it's .020" thick so it should be thin enough in diameter for SMD work


http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=SMDSW.020_4ozvirtualkey63560000virtualkey910-SMDSW.0204OZ
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Sun, 26 May 2013, 06:34:45
Mmm, how do you tell if they are laced with flux or not?

Check the datasheet or the msds.
The msds will tell you what kind of chemical it contains.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Sun, 26 May 2013, 07:39:53
Mmm, how do you tell if they are laced with flux or not?

Check the datasheet or the msds.
The msds will tell you what kind of chemical it contains.

I decided to just buy the one you bought lol. (soldasip)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 28 May 2013, 11:55:30
this has officially reached epic sticky status

for the record, wfd, you pushed it right over the edge and dropped it into the seven seas of sticky
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 28 May 2013, 13:53:04
yeah WFD's youtube channel is Boss. I subbed it over 3 months ago.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 28 May 2013, 14:33:39
I want somebody to double check my work before I go through with this, but I'm wanting to set up a window vent type deal by using a dryer vent hose, a PC fan (120 or 90mm) taped onto the end of it and an in-line normally open switch to turn the fan on or off.

First question. would the fan best be put on the front or back of the vent to "push" or "pull" air through it? I was thinking if it was on the back it would be more efficient, but if it were on the front it would be easier to set up.

Secondly, I have a scavenged 12V .3A  power adapter, and i'm going to run it through a toggle switch to the fan. Since the amperage is so low I shouldn't have to worry about what switch I use, pretty much anything should work, right?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 28 May 2013, 16:39:04
the Simple questions, simple answers has officially reached epic sticky status

FTFY.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 30 May 2013, 01:18:50
this has officially reached epic sticky status

for the record, wfd, you pushed it right over the edge and dropped it into the seven seas of sticky

Cool, I just noticed this sticky now too. It's good to see more people venture into modding their own keyboards rather than just buy buy buy different ones.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kayliss on Thu, 30 May 2013, 02:06:11
Any suggestions for a less expensive alternative to the Hakko 808? Just looking for something I can use with one hand.  :confused:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 30 May 2013, 02:16:34
^ Only $48, but you need a $200 station for it to work :p

http://sra-solder.com/product.php/6470/81/b1003a_replacement_desoldering_gun_for_aouye_2702_2702a_2703a
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Thu, 30 May 2013, 09:19:14
mmm, between the 60$ WLC100, and the hakko 888 for 160$.. is there alot of difference?:P

I have a number of keyboards that I would need to solder (some desolder first) but still wondering if I would need something so expensive mm. Is it a worthwhile investment to get the better one?:P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 30 May 2013, 09:35:13
mmm, between the 60$ WLC100, and the hakko 888 for 160$.. is there alot of difference?:P

I have a number of keyboards that I would need to solder (some desolder first) but still wondering if I would need something so expensive mm. Is it a worthwhile investment to get the better one?:P

The WLC100 is decent, but from what I hear the Hakko is miles ahead. Where are you buying these? I just picked up a Hakko 888D for $87 shipped?


*Thanks esoomenona
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 30 May 2013, 09:46:40
888, not 808...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 30 May 2013, 12:11:30
mmm, between the 60$ WLC100, and the hakko 888 for 160$.. is there alot of difference?:P

I have a number of keyboards that I would need to solder (some desolder first) but still wondering if I would need something so expensive mm. Is it a worthwhile investment to get the better one?:P

If you're only going to do a few keyboards, the WLC100 is fine. You can control how much power is fed to the iron, but it doesn't have true temperature readout and regulation like you would find in a hakko 888. If you plan on doing maybe 4 or more in the future, a hakko888 is a good investment, although they're not as cheap in Singapore.


I just picked up a Hakko 888D for $87 shipped?

Most of us in the US don't realize how dirt cheap the hakko 888 is here. You can find one for ~$85 shipped new, but in any other countries they're generally ~$160. HUGE price difference, so it might not be the best choice for someone really tight on money or just soldering a few keyboards here and there. However if you're in the US, might as well get the hakko over the weller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 30 May 2013, 12:57:15
Everybody seems so caught up on the Hakko. I bought a Weller wes51 and I'm starting to get buyers remorse lol. I haven't even used it yet. I'm sure either way it's light years ahead of what I've used in the past (fleetingly)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 30 May 2013, 13:55:22
the 51 is good classic design
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 30 May 2013, 17:10:31
Does a soldapullt need to be broken in? I just got one today, but it takes 2-5 times of pushing the plunger to get it to lock. Every other soldapullt I've used it push once and lock....

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Thu, 30 May 2013, 17:58:59
Does a soldapullt need to be broken in? I just got one today, but it takes 2-5 times of pushing the plunger to get it to lock. Every other soldapullt I've used it push once and lock....


maybe add more solder first to the joint?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 30 May 2013, 18:01:38
Does a soldapullt need to be broken in? I just got one today, but it takes 2-5 times of pushing the plunger to get it to lock. Every other soldapullt I've used it push once and lock....


maybe add more solder first to the joint?


Nope, it's not it's sucking ability I'm worried about, it's the tool itself. Every other soldapullt I've used, I depress the plunger once and it locks, ready to suck. On the one I got today, it seems to be 2-5 depressions before locking. However, now that I've cycled it, it seems like it's getting better,
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 30 May 2013, 18:24:31
Does a soldapullt need to be broken in? I just got one today, but it takes 2-5 times of pushing the plunger to get it to lock. Every other soldapullt I've used it push once and lock....


maybe add more solder first to the joint?


Nope, it's not it's sucking ability I'm worried about, it's the tool itself. Every other soldapullt I've used, I depress the plunger once and it locks, ready to suck. On the one I got today, it seems to be 2-5 depressions before locking. However, now that I've cycled it, it seems like it's getting better,

Did you get this from Amazon, or follow my advice and order direct from Edsyn?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 30 May 2013, 18:28:35
Does a soldapullt need to be broken in? I just got one today, but it takes 2-5 times of pushing the plunger to get it to lock. Every other soldapullt I've used it push once and lock....


maybe add more solder first to the joint?


Nope, it's not it's sucking ability I'm worried about, it's the tool itself. Every other soldapullt I've used, I depress the plunger once and it locks, ready to suck. On the one I got today, it seems to be 2-5 depressions before locking. However, now that I've cycled it, it seems like it's getting better,

Did you get this from Amazon, or follow my advice and order direct from Edsyn?

Bought from ebay. A couple hundred cycles, and it's now locking on almost ever depression. So it must have needed to be broke in
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 30 May 2013, 18:34:17
Does a soldapullt need to be broken in? I just got one today, but it takes 2-5 times of pushing the plunger to get it to lock. Every other soldapullt I've used it push once and lock....


maybe add more solder first to the joint?


Nope, it's not it's sucking ability I'm worried about, it's the tool itself. Every other soldapullt I've used, I depress the plunger once and it locks, ready to suck. On the one I got today, it seems to be 2-5 depressions before locking. However, now that I've cycled it, it seems like it's getting better,

Did you get this from Amazon, or follow my advice and order direct from Edsyn?

Bought from ebay. A couple hundred cycles, and it's now locking on almost ever depression. So it must have needed to be broke in

Ah, okay. Well, Edsyn's customer support is excellent, if you have any more problems with it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 4LI4Z on Thu, 30 May 2013, 19:07:32
I don't know how it is in the US but in Europe you can get really high quality used Weller soldering stations for cheap. For example a Weller WS50 or WD50 or WECP-20. Those are soldering stations used in many companies for every day work. Some of them got used for over 10 years with no turning off during worktime and they work like on there first day.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Thu, 30 May 2013, 19:39:22
mmm, between the 60$ WLC100, and the hakko 888 for 160$.. is there alot of difference?:P

I have a number of keyboards that I would need to solder (some desolder first) but still wondering if I would need something so expensive mm. Is it a worthwhile investment to get the better one?:P

I have one from Taobao coming in. Hakko FX-888D
The Taobao price alone is 450RMB. 220V, China Plug

Seller provided teardown pictures of the inside and it looks like it is genuine. Non of the deal extreme crap.
Anyway, I will know for sure when I handle it myself.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rayne on Thu, 30 May 2013, 20:15:50
just found this thread, i used to solder alot when i was in high school, this really makes me want to get back into it.
my equipment i still have is really bad radio shack stuff tho... Im so tempted to pick up some of this stuff, but there are other keyboard things i want to buy...

i dont know why i still come to this website lol

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 30 May 2013, 22:30:24
If you poke around the IRC, Parak occasionally has good deals on irons he finds on eBay.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rayne on Thu, 30 May 2013, 23:47:52
If you poke around the IRC, Parak occasionally has good deals on irons he finds on eBay.
hmm... iv actually been thinking about idling irc more, to get to know people. Guess this is just more incentive.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 30 May 2013, 23:51:14
Ah, okay. Well, Edsyn's customer support is excellent, if you have any more problems with it.

I'm sure they are, and I would have bought from them, but they're a tab high. I think it was around $31 shipped for the same thing I got for $20 shipped.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 31 May 2013, 08:58:46
mmm, between the 60$ WLC100, and the hakko 888 for 160$.. is there alot of difference?:P

I have a number of keyboards that I would need to solder (some desolder first) but still wondering if I would need something so expensive mm. Is it a worthwhile investment to get the better one?:P

The WLC100 is decent, but from what I hear the Hakko is miles ahead. Where are you buying these? I just picked up a Hakko 888D for $87 shipped?


*Thanks esoomenona

unfortunately I'm in Singapore D: almost all the soldering stations are pretty expensive here ):

Well, I'll have...two GH60s, tutu, kmac happy to assemble.. (plus one poker to desolder + solder to add a plate..). mmm Not exactly that tight on cash now but still hope to get my moneys worth nevetheless :P

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 31 May 2013, 09:00:36
mmm, between the 60$ WLC100, and the hakko 888 for 160$.. is there alot of difference?:P

I have a number of keyboards that I would need to solder (some desolder first) but still wondering if I would need something so expensive mm. Is it a worthwhile investment to get the better one?:P

The WLC100 is decent, but from what I hear the Hakko is miles ahead. Where are you buying these? I just picked up a Hakko 888D for $87 shipped?


*Thanks esoomenona

unfortunately I'm in Singapore D: almost all the soldering stations are pretty expensive here ):

Well, I'll have...two GH60s, tutu, kmac happy to assemble.. (plus one poker to desolder + solder to add a plate..). mmm Not exactly that tight on cash now but still hope to get my moneys worth nevetheless :P



I've used the WLC100 before to do a couple boards. It isn't bad, but it's not stellar either. It should be good enough for everything keyboard related (except maybe SMD since you don't have a lot of control over temp.)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 31 May 2013, 09:05:13
does the hakko help to make up with being a noob on soldering?:P I'll be worried about burning stuff up since I'll be doing it for the first time lol.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 31 May 2013, 09:07:18
Not mine. Had it repaired for a customer.

(http://i.imgur.com/cO3jDoI.png)

Simpson 260-8P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 31 May 2013, 09:09:50
does the hakko help to make up with being a noob on soldering?:P I'll be worried about burning stuff up since I'll be doing it for the first time lol.

On the first few boards I had it set on 5 because why not? I did mess up a trace and did some heat damage to the PCB. I backed off to around 3-4 and everything soldered and looked a lot better.

I can't really say if the Hakko will make you a better solderer, because I haven't used one yet. It should be here today tho!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Fri, 31 May 2013, 09:17:58
mmm, a difficult decision. I wish it was as easy as deciding to buy a 100 usd keycap set D:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 31 May 2013, 11:22:52
Not mine. Had it repaired for a customer.


Simpson 260-8P
Wow, cool stuff. How old is it? I see they manufactured them for a few years.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: eRadicatedZomBiE on Mon, 03 June 2013, 18:02:56
I'm stuck between this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Updated-Aoyue-Digital-Soldering-absorber/dp/B006FA481G (http://www.amazon.com/Updated-Aoyue-Digital-Soldering-absorber/dp/B006FA481G)

and this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2VQA24/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AGZ57FCJFLOQQ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2VQA24/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AGZ57FCJFLOQQ)

I want to get an "in 1" type of setup I'm not sure if there is any real difference between these two or if it just comes down to user preference
I tried to see if there was anything that was really different the only thing I could find was that the  X-tronic has 110W as opposed to the Aoyue which is 70W

Help a brother out!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 June 2013, 00:36:48
litster has one of the Aoyue stations. iirc he says the only thing he really likes about it is the fume extractor on the iron.

the cheap all-in-one stations are definitely "get what you pay for", and the bigger problem with "all-in-one" is that they may very well be devoting too much of a meager budget to something you just don't do very often. how often are you going to desolder soic packages? do you really need hot tweezers at all? how often are you going to do smt reflow? do you really need hot air at all? etc.

over the years i've definitely found that accuracy, reliability and usability are #1 in tooling, especially high power precision tooling like soldering tools. even when you're careful and you know what you're doing it's still not that hard to burn things when you have a bunch of power flowing into a heater in your hand.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 June 2013, 10:12:15
folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

you can tell which mode you're in by the temp display. if it has two dots at the bottom, you're setting the calibration, not the temperature. if it doesn't have two dots, you're setting the temperature. note that there is no "reset to factory" if you do mistakenly recalibrate. it may be possible to wipe the nvram or whatever it keeps the offset in, but i haven't gotten to that part of the manual yet.

my advice: search for amico thermometer on amazon and get a very cheap type K thermometer (25$) in case you need to recalibrate the regulator after mistakenly calibrating it instead of changing the regulator temperature. make sure the type K probe and thermometer you buy goes up to at least 250 deg C.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 04 June 2013, 11:43:06
folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

makes me feel a bit better about going for the analog dial weller now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rayne on Tue, 04 June 2013, 12:20:07
folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

makes me feel a bit better about going for the analog dial weller now.

yeah, i was almost 100% going to get an 888D, now im kinda second guessing that decision.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 June 2013, 13:38:03
the care and feeding of the 888d is definitely a bit higher than the analog meters. they cut some corners to get the insanely accurate regulator into the budget station. the accuracy on this thing is higher than the industrial-strength 951 station (which i assume they plan on updating at some point). the flip side to this accuracy is that it's been designed for people who care about accuracy and have the tooling (eg, a tip thermometer) to calibrate.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 04 June 2013, 17:55:37
folks with 888ds, i just got mine and i noticed that they made the the worst UI choice ever in that CALIBRATING the temperature and SETTING the temperature are almost exactly the same procedure, except that one of them requires pressing the enter button for ONE second (temp set) and the other for TWO seconds (calibration)

FACEPALM

you can tell which mode you're in by the temp display. if it has two dots at the bottom, you're setting the calibration, not the temperature. if it doesn't have two dots, you're setting the temperature. note that there is no "reset to factory" if you do mistakenly recalibrate. it may be possible to wipe the nvram or whatever it keeps the offset in, but i haven't gotten to that part of the manual yet.

my advice: search for amico thermometer on amazon and get a very cheap type K thermometer (25$) in case you need to recalibrate the regulator after mistakenly calibrating it instead of changing the regulator temperature. make sure the type K probe and thermometer you buy goes up to at least 250 deg C.

This really sucks. I don't remember if I ever saw two blinking periods or not. Could you maybe use a kitchen meat thermometer to calibrate?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 June 2013, 18:16:38
anything that can read up to 200C and is accurate to within 2C there it is about as accurate as the regulator, so you're good. honestly, the factory calibration probably isn't all that accurate as it is. a cheap IR thermometer placed really close to the tip will probably work fine to get it back within the ballpark (and about as accurate as the dial would have been).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 04 June 2013, 18:19:52
anything that can read up to 200C and is accurate to within 2C there it is about as accurate as the regulator, so you're good. honestly, the factory calibration probably isn't all that accurate as it is. a cheap IR thermometer placed really close to the tip will probably work fine to get it back within the ballpark (and about as accurate as the dial would have been).

Oh man, I forgot that my buddy has a IR thermometer, I'll borrow that and check to make sure I didn't mess up my calibration.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 June 2013, 18:39:55
also remember that anything that actually measures tip temperature is going to be more accurate than the factory calibration or wherever the regular has wandered since it left the factory. ideally you want a contact probe because the built up oxidization and tin or lack thereof can wildly change the temperature at the joint. but really, just remember that you're always guessing with materials and thermo (heisenberg or something)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: eRadicatedZomBiE on Tue, 04 June 2013, 19:33:30
also remember that anything that actually measures tip temperature is going to be more accurate than the factory calibration or wherever the regular has wandered since it left the factory. ideally you want a contact probe because the built up oxidization and tin or lack thereof can wildly change the temperature at the joint. but really, just remember that you're always guessing with materials and thermo (heisenberg or something)

Did you say Heisenberg?
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110817002356/breakingbad/images/e/ea/Season_4_-_Heisenberg.jpg)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 04 June 2013, 20:24:37
Oh man, I forgot that my buddy has a IR thermometer, I'll borrow that and check to make sure I didn't mess up my calibration.

I don't think IR gun will be food for measuring tip temps. The readout is an average temp over a certain area, and the area it measures depends the distance away from the object. The tip is too small to point an IR gun at it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 04 June 2013, 20:25:57
Oh man, I forgot that my buddy has a IR thermometer, I'll borrow that and check to make sure I didn't mess up my calibration.

I don't think IR gun will be food for measuring tip temps. The readout is an average temp over a certain area, and the area it measures depends the distance away from the object. The tip is too small to point an IR gun at it.

Even with a large knife style tip and the IR gun held close to the tip?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Tue, 04 June 2013, 20:36:14
How large is the knife tip? I wouldn't imagine any soldering tip is large enough to measure with IR guns. These are more for measuring an area, not a single point, even though the gun has an aiming laser that shoots at a single point. You can try though, but I wouldn't trust accuracy doing this way because you'll pick up temps from the surrounding area as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 04 June 2013, 20:40:22
How large is the knife tip? I wouldn't imagine any soldering tip is large enough to measure with IR guns. These are more for measuring an area, not a single point, even though the gun has an aiming laser that shoots at a single point. You can try though, but I wouldn't trust accuracy doing this way because you'll pick up temps from the surrounding area as well.

It's this tip
(http://ec.hakko.com/imgs/det/900M-T-K.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 June 2013, 20:44:45
the temp the regulator uses isn't exactly in the tip either. (or more importantly, on the surface of the tip).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 05 June 2013, 19:00:20
Ok, what if you have 63/37 solder, could you ramp up the temperature until the solder melts and calibrate the station to 361F?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 05 June 2013, 19:05:36
sure. i mean the point of the point of the last N posts was that ultimately you're just twiddling some knob until you can solder stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 June 2013, 19:55:24
Did you say Heisenberg?
Show Image
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110817002356/breakingbad/images/e/ea/Season_4_-_Heisenberg.jpg)


Stay out of my project room.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rayne on Wed, 05 June 2013, 20:20:01
Ok, so I have some soldering experience, I'v been doing little projects here and there for some time. The only solder iron iv used is a cheap $10 radio shack one that i bought like 4 or 5 years ago. I want to upgrade and get one much better than what i have. I was looking into getting the Hakko FX888D, I dont want to spend any more than that. However, the posts above are kind of confusing me. Now this may be a stupid question, but what is the deal with calibrating the temperature? How exactly do you do this and why? I kinda makes me scared to buy a new solder machine because i feel like i wont know how to use it :x

again, sorry if this is a dumb question, i feel like such a noob :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 06 June 2013, 00:00:59
I assume it comes factory calibrated but you can recalibrate it by hand using the method listed above.


Beside that any tool worth it's salt should come with (or at least have available) a fairly extensive manual. I suspect most of them are available online now because it saves paper and/or is cheaper to produce
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rayne on Thu, 06 June 2013, 01:02:20
oooh ok i get it now. i was thinking calibration was something that need to be done every time you use the machine... this all makes sense now... i feel so dumb lol
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 06 June 2013, 01:23:36
all the hakko documentation is available online. you have to register for it, which is weird, but yah, it's up there. docs.hakko.com or something.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Fri, 07 June 2013, 12:02:25
Just received my 888d 220v from taobao. For $75 before shipping, pretty good deal indeed.
The innards looks as real as the teardown pictures that I can find.

Pictures to follow.

Made in a factory 30km from where I stay.
Bought from Shanghai and still save a ton of money.
Globailization at its best.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 07 June 2013, 12:44:39
hah! hilarious. also remember that it was designed in japan :D

economic geography at its finest.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 07 June 2013, 12:50:48
reminds of me a bit of how rendering and processing plants will buy horse meat from americans for 50 cents a pound and sell it where horsemeat is a delicacy for 15 dollars a pound.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 07 June 2013, 13:35:11
contrary to popular belief, paul krugman did some really good work in this prior to globalization becoming a buzzword, and deserves the nobel as much as anyone else with a nobel -- it wasn't just political..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Sat, 08 June 2013, 04:48:48
Here is the teardown of the FX888D from Taobao
Comparison to a FX888D from other sources
http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2013/03/hakko-fx-888d-solder-station-hi-res.html

More
(http://i.imgur.com/s5i1zKo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nPCkx5a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P2oeOdG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ztAkliX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/00dRI0y.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/j00XDgL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ufYXUZH.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 08 June 2013, 06:50:34
contrary to popular belief, paul krugman did some really good work in this prior to globalization becoming a buzzword, and deserves the nobel as much as anyone else with a nobel -- it wasn't just political..

Except there is no Nobel Prize in economics. I know nothing about economics though...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 08 June 2013, 09:10:00
Here is the teardown of the FX888D from Taobao
Comparison to a FX888D from other sources
http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2013/03/hakko-fx-888d-solder-station-hi-res.html

More
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/s5i1zKo.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/nPCkx5a.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/P2oeOdG.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ztAkliX.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/00dRI0y.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/j00XDgL.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ufYXUZH.jpg)
looks unsurprisingly like the same unit. good to know there's a cheaper source IN asia

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 08 June 2013, 14:38:24
DUDES! GREAT NEWS!

I've made a huge mistake. the process for TEMPERATURE CHANGE is to hold the ENTER button for 1 second.

The process for TEMPERATURE CALIBRATION is to hold the UP button for 2 seconds. phew!!!

ok, now the bad news. i tossed an older tip on my iron and then took an extremely accurate thermistor and stuck it on the tinned and brass-brushed tip. it was 20 degrees off the regulator thermistor. i then calibrated and ta-da! melted solder. this is cool for me because i have an extremely accurate contact thermometer that is rated up to 400C, but may not work for you if you plan on buying the 888d and then blindly trusting the number on the front.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 08 June 2013, 18:50:18
Just got done soldering my a.87. All the SMD stuff that came in the kit and all the SMD resistors. Big thanks to everyone in the thread. All I need to do is solder on the switches, diodes and LEDs, but I need a plate and a case to make first!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 08 June 2013, 19:27:23
The white A87 ps2avr? You might want to try and program it first before you install the plate in case any of the components don't work or needs reflow. You won't be able to take them off once the plate is on. I'm stuck at the programming phase before I can put on the plate.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44504.0


Btw, when you said SMD resistors, I hope those are diodes instead, which is what the switches need. Unless you mean resistors for a backlit keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 08 June 2013, 19:32:29
The white A87 ps2avr? You might want to try and program it first before you install the plate in case any of the components don't work or needs reflow. You won't be able to take them off once the plate is on. I'm stuck at the programming phase before I can put on the plate.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44504.0


Btw, when you said SMD resistors, I hope those are diodes instead, which is what the switches need. Unless you mean resistors for a backlit keyboard.

Yea, it's going to be a while for the white A87 ps2avr since I want to get my phantom completed first.


No, I did the SMD resistors tonight since I already have the LEDs. I didn't feel like doing the through hole diodes tonight so I'll probably do those tomorrow
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Sat, 08 June 2013, 22:07:10
DUDES! GREAT NEWS!

I've made a huge mistake. the process for TEMPERATURE CHANGE is to hold the ENTER button for 1 second.

The process for TEMPERATURE CALIBRATION is to hold the UP button for 2 seconds. phew!!!

ok, now the bad news. i tossed an older tip on my iron and then took an extremely accurate thermistor and stuck it on the tinned and brass-brushed tip. it was 20 degrees off the regulator thermistor. i then calibrated and ta-da! melted solder. this is cool for me because i have an extremely accurate contact thermometer that is rated up to 400C, but may not work for you if you plan on buying the 888d and then blindly trusting the number on the front.

How do you get the Presets? P1, P2, P3 etc?
I can change the temps but getting into the preset mode is pretty damn hard.

It's very interesting how Hakko can fit so many functions into the "UP" "Enter" and on/off switch combination.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 08 June 2013, 23:19:27
sign up for doc.hakko.com. the full manual is there (why? i have no idea)

to get to the parameter settings you have to turn the iron on with the enter key held down until it flashes "01" (which is the C or F parameter)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: i3oilermaker on Sun, 09 June 2013, 16:55:35
I have a Weller ST1 tip (recommended for switch/diode soldering) new that is of no use to me.

If anyone wants it all I ask is for shipping.  First to PM me gets it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 10 June 2013, 17:04:28
So I can't seem to find a proper manual for my Weller WES51 other than the 4 pages of toilet paper that comes in the box. Is that seriously it, or does somebody know better?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 10 June 2013, 17:09:44
So I can't seem to find a proper manual for my Weller WES51 other than the 4 pages of toilet paper that comes in the box. Is that seriously it, or does somebody know better?

http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/pdf/wes51.pdf
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 10 June 2013, 17:36:25
Thanks. Looked and couldn't find it. Ended up on the page for the WES50.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: daerid on Thu, 13 June 2013, 00:50:55
Looks like I'm getting a FX888D as a father's day gift to myself and gonna finally be able to put my 'Dox together this weekend. W00t!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 June 2013, 16:47:56
Got it! Quick question though (sorry if its been covered): what temp is the best for soldering this thing?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Mon, 17 June 2013, 09:39:18
Got it! Quick question though (sorry if its been covered): what temp is the best for soldering this thing?

I use 350 for Lead solder, and 450 for lead free.
That's in celcius by the way.

Try not to mix the tips used for Lead and lead-free solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 June 2013, 10:06:13
it depends on your alloy, and yes, do not mix tips across alloys. the standard hobbyist 63/37 (ie, 63% tin, 37% lead) melts at exactly 182C and is euctetic, meaning that there is no transition between solid and liquid (and v.v., there is no hysteresis). this alloy, with a core of rosin flux was by far the most popular solder for many many years. kester's 44 very small diameter solder is still one of the best and has exactly this construction.

with the change in EU regulations in 2000-ish (RoHS lead-free no-clean), non-euctetic formulations and lead-free alloys have been de rigeur in mass production, as leaded soldered items cannot be imported into the EU. the upside of this is of course that we don't have to landfill so much lead. the downside is that standard solders are no longer euctetic, and have much weirder material properties and larger ranges of melting temps. non-rosin flux is also less corrosive (flux is meant to attack and dissolve oxidization on metal surfaces) and hence harder to work with.

the wiki article on solder is quite complete and very information. highly suggest taking a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Mon, 17 June 2013, 10:07:42
got all my soldering + desoldering gear.. and probably going to desolder my poker X to add a plate to it.

Anything I should REALLY take note before I start?:P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 18 June 2013, 09:26:02
I've got the recommended desoldering iron from RadioShack so far.  Almost got my first switch out last night (but there's a skinny filament of solder left inside one of the holes, so waiting for other tools to arrive.

Ordered these from Amazon for my 2 Filco TKL projects :)


And of course my Prime ran out a couple days ago, so slow shipping...  But when it all gets here, I'll start desoldering in earnest!  Still need to get a tip tinner--probably at RadioShack on my way home from work today.  Do you think the stock Weller WLC100 tip is sufficiently narrow if I'm careful, or do I need to get a smaller one?

Thanks for everyone's tips in this thread!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 18 June 2013, 10:02:13
Thanks for everyone's tips in this thread!

pun ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 18 June 2013, 11:20:53
euctetic = eutectic.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:03:25
euctetic = eutectic.


Thanks for everyone's spelling tips in this thread!

:))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:10:00
Got it! Quick question though (sorry if its been covered): what temp is the best for soldering this thing?

I use 350 for Lead solder, and 450 for lead free.
That's in celcius by the way.

Try not to mix the tips used for Lead and lead-free solder.

Wow... part of this is likely to be tip dependent, however I prefer to use the lowest possible temp to get the job done.  I don't do lead free, but my 888 is set to 275C for SMD work.  For KB switches 275C works, sometimes bump it to 300C.  For wire work with 18ga or larger, 325C.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:20:33
I used to do everything on 5 on the weller WLC, now that I can control temps I use around 550F. It's a little bit hotter than alaricljs uses, but I find it a bit faster than if I'd use a lower temp.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:22:00
I used to do everything on 5 on the weller WLC, now that I can control temps I use around 550F. It's a little bit hotter than alaricljs uses, but I find it a bit faster than if I'd use a lower temp.

I run like 650...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:23:23
I used to do everything on 5 on the weller WLC, now that I can control temps I use around 550F. It's a little bit hotter than alaricljs uses, but I find it a bit faster than if I'd use a lower temp.

I run like 650...

I would have figured that you used 850F for everything
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:25:30
I was also running about 650 when I was soldering my Tofu101 over the weekend. I think it needs to be closer to 700 but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:25:56
I used to do everything on 5 on the weller WLC, now that I can control temps I use around 550F. It's a little bit hotter than alaricljs uses, but I find it a bit faster than if I'd use a lower temp.

I run like 650...

I would have figured that you used 850F for everything

You caught me, I just plug the iron directly into a 110v plug and let the metal glow.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 18 June 2013, 18:30:43
You caught me, I just plug the iron directly into a 110v plug and let the metal glow.

(http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/uploads/72cb8e9fde34f1cab269d0a641807808.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 19 June 2013, 09:21:58
I still don't have a dedicated tip tinner, and I wonder if I can just use my solder line to tin the tip.  That way I wouldn't be mixing random compounds on the tip too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 19 June 2013, 09:26:32
I've never had a tip tinner, hasn't bothered me any.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 19 June 2013, 09:47:16
just use solder to tip the tip. tin tinner is just a little thing of solder paste (= ground up flux and solder)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 19 June 2013, 09:48:52
Cool--thanks.  Didn't seem worth $10 to get a dedicated tinner that was of a possibly different formulation than my solder anyway.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Fri, 21 June 2013, 19:02:18
Well, now that I'm making an ErgoDox I'm going to need a decent iron.

Was looking at either of these:

http://www.amazon.com/X-TRONIC-MODEL-4010-XTS-Centigrade-ANTI-MAGNETIC/dp/B0053491YO/ref=sr_1_4?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1371858166&sr=1-4&keywords=soldering+station#productDetails

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-9378-Programmable-Digital-Soldering/dp/B00BSW69LI/ref=sr_1_5?s=power-hand-tools&ie=UTF8&qid=1371858166&sr=1-5&keywords=soldering+station

Anyone have any input about these or any alternative products (within a reasonable price range), I'd be interested.

Thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 21 June 2013, 19:03:46
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle-cutter/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1371859401&sr=1-1&keywords=888d
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 21 June 2013, 19:06:42
Check out this thread for more info!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 21 June 2013, 19:09:52
Weller WESD51 Digital Soldering Station.

I got mine when they were $129.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueByLiquid on Fri, 21 June 2013, 20:02:32
I just got the FX888D. The price on amazon is pretty darn good. It is very solid and constant temp. it heats up really really fast and and just has a good feel to it. It also is pretty small which I find great.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 21 June 2013, 20:23:23
Weller, Ersa, Hakko, Pace...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Fri, 21 June 2013, 20:31:16
Ok, after researching a bit I went with the FX888D with some extra tips on the side.

Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TD22057 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 14:10:06
How do you guys like the 888D?  I ended up grabbing the non-digital version (888) which I found for sale in a few places.  I thought the analog control might be easier to use than the digital...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 14:39:21
How do you guys like the 888D?  I ended up grabbing the non-digital version (888) which I found for sale in a few places.  I thought the analog control might be easier to use than the digital...
I just got my 888D last week. Never soldered before in my life and within an hour of practicing on an old telephone with through hole components I was confident enough to mod my poker. It works very well, heats up extremely fast and is a solid machine. My only complaint is the lack of a decent manual but MKAWA posted a link to one in the living soldering thread. I recommend this iron. The price is pretty great too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueByLiquid on Sat, 22 June 2013, 15:48:18
How do you guys like the 888D?  I ended up grabbing the non-digital version (888) which I found for sale in a few places.  I thought the analog control might be easier to use than the digital...

I have used more expensive ones friends have had and I love the 888D. Doesn't mean I wouldn't get a more expensive one if I did specific things but the size of the 888 makes it easy to keep on your desk unlike bigger sones where you end up putting them up because they are pretty big.

@YoungMichael88, THe 888D couldn't be easier to use. It starts up to 750 and you can easily adjust it but if you are using leaded solder thats what you want 9-10. maybe if you are doing something with drastic temp changes consistently it might be better to have a dial but I don't see this as a concern for those buying the 888.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:00:51
How do you guys like the 888D?  I ended up grabbing the non-digital version (888) which I found for sale in a few places.  I thought the analog control might be easier to use than the digital...

I have used more expensive ones friends have had and I love the 888D. Doesn't mean I wouldn't get a more expensive one if I did specific things but the size of the 888 makes it easy to keep on your desk unlike bigger sones where you end up putting them up because they are pretty big.

@YoungMichael88, THe 888D couldn't be easier to use. It starts up to 750 and you can easily adjust it but if you are using leaded solder thats what you want 9-10. maybe if you are doing something with drastic temp changes consistently it might be better to have a dial but I don't see this as a concern for those buying the 888.
it's really not that hard to change the temperature either. Sure it's not as fast as turning a dial but you could change it to any temperature in about 7 seconds.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:17:53
So the 888 is nice and fancy, but the OP asked about decent. By which I think he means good, not fancy.

I think this standard is met by a Weller W60 with a couple of tips for medium to x-large work and a Weller 15W (red handled version) for delicate work.  And some good multi-core 60/40 solder (I like Ersin .050).  The PH60 is an excellent stand for the big iron.

With that pair of relatively inexpensive irons you can solder anything from 28g wire (tiny) up to 00 monster cable.  And the W60 will last decades.

I like to think of it as the Model F of soldering irons.  My W60 is certainly older than my Model F or any of my Model M keyboards.

Now if only I could get a Stomberg-Carlson VOIP phone for my desk...

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueByLiquid on Sat, 22 June 2013, 16:33:00
So the 888 is nice and fancy, but the OP asked about decent. By which I think he means good, not fancy.

I think this standard is met by a Weller W60 with a couple of tips for medium to x-large work and a Weller 15W (red handled version) for delicate work.  And some good multi-core 60/40 solder (I like Ersin .050).  The PH60 is an excellent stand for the big iron.

With that pair of relatively inexpensive irons you can solder anything from 28g wire (tiny) up to 00 monster cable.  And the W60 will last decades.

I like to think of it as the Model F of soldering irons.  My W60 is certainly older than my Model F or any of my Model M keyboards.

Now if only I could get a Stomberg-Carlson VOIP phone for my desk...

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Show Image
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)


So are you saying the OP wanted something lower cost than the 888D or that the 888D is just fancy and not "good". going by the general price range of the OP links I assumed he/she was looking for something in the 70-100 range and the 888D is around 85-95. I think the w60 is about 75-80 but also doesn't come with a stand or anything to hold the wire brush, etc. While you can get those cheap I would think it would add up to as much as the 888D. The 888D is the only one I have used in the sub $100 range (other than really really cheap ones) and I really enjoy it so that's what I recommended I could be wrong. I am sure there are other good ones around that range but it seemsed like for $90 or less it was the best choice.

Other note, I would imagine the w60 is difficult to maintain a continuous temp because it is just a handheld heating unit but again I could be wrong and am not saying bad things about it it just doesn't seem like the best value IMO.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 22 June 2013, 17:55:32
The Hakko 888 is a good choice imo, got the old analog version because I figured it's less prone to failure...
-> No LCD and additional control PCB -> Less parts that can break, plus it has been around for some time and proven.
Also got a bunch of chisel tips in different sizes and a second hand-piece in case the ceramic in the boxed one breaks some day.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 22 June 2013, 18:09:29
Good points.  Currently the W60 is the W60P, which is temperature controlled.  And it is no longer either inexpensive or as simple as it once was.  My preference is is to minimize electronics to improve longevity, and it is from that perspective I made the alternative recommendation.

I like simple tools that work well.  I'd rather have a set of good screwdrivers than a multi-driver with interchangeable bits, for example.  So for me, having a #0, #1, and #2 Phillips head is the same as having a 60W and a 15W iron on my bench.  My Weller is at least 30 years old, and works as well as it did when I bought it.

Go into a metal shop and you will almost always find a piece of equipment that is older than anyone who works there.  And it won't have dials, chips, or closed-loop feedback systems.  But it will work better -- in the right hands -- than the newer models that are available now.

I just bought a 'new' Fluke DMM.  It is only 10 years old.  I hope it lasts as long as my Weller will!

In the meantime, I should try an 888 just to see.  But instead I am probably going to get a Hakko with a desoldering pump built in!  Mostly because there is so much desoldering in this hobby that I am getting tired of using my Soldapullit.

But I'm not going to get rid of that Soldapullit either.  It might last a couple of decades itself.

 - Ron I samwisekoi
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 22 June 2013, 20:09:48
flukes don't die, sorry. if you wait long enough and enough buildings fall down and species go extinct, it might go slightly out of calibration, but i wouldn't be surprised if they throw in a free calibration every 20 years just for the heck of it. nikon pro cameras are also like this. if you bring them through enough war zones, the mount will eventually go out of spec (and of course all the rubber pieces will need to be replaced, but those are consumables), but only a tiny bit, and you have to have their test equipment to see the error. they also do flat rate repair pricing though, so you don't bother bringing it in for a CLA until you dropped it off a plane and cracked the body in half. then they charge you a hundred dollars and send you on your way (although they can take their sweet time if you don't bug them every few days)

Quote
I'd rather have a set of good screwdrivers than a multi-driver with interchangeable bits, for example.  So for me, having a #0, #1, and #2 Phillips head is the same as having a 60W and a 15W iron on my bench.
wiha for the drivers, and these are consumables by the way. i like having a steady supply of the standard wiha 000,00,0,1 small style drivers as well as a steady supply of the reversible and extendible drive-loc IV 1 + 2 bits and a reversible and extendible system 4 drive-loc 00 + 0

4mm and 1/4" bits are good, but imo only for power tools, and i like to go stainless with those because mild carbon steel is NOT TOOL STEEL and just strips itself and everything else out.

also, always have a JIC 0 and 1 driver on hand.

this reminds me. i just got a cheap (actually it was shockingly expensive) and ****ty chinese bit + handle 4mm set because i couldn't find any other Y0 and Y1 bits anywhere. if for some reason you want one of these without the Y0 and Y1 bits, it will probably go up on either free stuff or my very cheap stuff classifieds thread soon.

soldapullts are such simple machines it's not surprising that all they really need is a gasket and nozzle every once in a while, but soldering irons are these horribly nasty pieces of metal, ceramic, etc with mostly analog controls and constant insane heat cycling, so it's really a credit to hakko and weller's engineers that those two brands products never freaking die. same with fluke, frankly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dfj on Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:23:36
Sooth on the Nikon - I have a D (not a D-x or D-xx, the D). The addon light sensor needs to be rebuilt, but the body is nigh-indestructible (a hair of brass is showing here and there through the chrome and black layers).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Mon, 24 June 2013, 10:41:07
How do you guys clean the soldapult?
It clogs up pretty quickly after desoldering a few keyboards.
I tried to clean as best as I can, but it seems that I no longer get that round piece of solder whenever I cock it in place.
Instead, it is just flakes of solder now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 24 June 2013, 11:00:38
Sooth on the Nikon - I have a D (not a D-x or D-xx, the D). The addon light sensor needs to be rebuilt, but the body is nigh-indestructible (a hair of brass is showing here and there through the chrome and black layers).
hundred bucks.
hah!

Quote
How do you guys clean the soldapult?
It clogs up pretty quickly after desoldering a few keyboards.
I tried to clean as best as I can, but it seems that I no longer get that round piece of solder whenever I cock it in place.
Instead, it is just flakes of solder now.
you may have to disassemble it and clean the pump by hand. edsyn also sells replacement parts if your vacuum unit is unsalvageable for some reason (solder contaminating the gasket or something). i would personally start with a solvent to get rid of any rosin that might be causing the thing to stick, then pump it by hand a few times then disassemble and take a look.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Tue, 25 June 2013, 20:17:14
I want to learn to solder so I can swap out LEDs and such like on my keyboard but I haven't done it before. Anyone recommend any sites / equipment to buy (United Kingdom) to start me off? (Soldering iron, solder, that sort of thing)

Any advice is appreciated!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Tue, 25 June 2013, 22:32:58
Read this thread for lost of info on what equipment is good or not:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.0

And practice on an old VCR. If you've never soldered before, I'm sure there are videos on youtube laying out the basics
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 25 June 2013, 22:34:55
Wear eye protection and long pants; and never solder when you're tired.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 25 June 2013, 22:37:56
I think there are vids from whitefiredragon that are excellent, too

Also, that soldering comic is good.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: wcass on Wed, 26 June 2013, 09:07:28
sometimes the cheap tools are good enough - particularly if you are new to it or don't plan on using it a lot and forever. i have had my current $5 multi-meter for a couple of years already. i will lend it out to even casual acquaintances and would laugh if it did not get returned or came back in pieces.

i came late to soldering (late 40's actually) so i started with a $5 iron to learn on. i recently upgraded to a GQ 5200 rework station (same as a 952D+) with extra heating elements and tips for $80. this to mount some mighty small SMDs on my DIY PCBs.
[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 09:59:17
wcass, try one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003UCODIA/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

it's shockingly high quality, with a wide range of head fitment, stays where you put it, and uses some pretty clear optical plastic. for seven bucks including shipping i expected _much_ less. also, it clears one's prescription glasses, which can be a pain with other loupes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: wcass on Wed, 26 June 2013, 10:27:40
wcass, try one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003UCODIA/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

thanks, i will.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:23:13
I've got the recommended desoldering iron from RadioShack so far.  Almost got my first switch out last night (but there's a skinny filament of solder left inside one of the holes, so waiting for other tools to arrive.

Ordered these from Amazon for my 2 Filco TKL projects :)

  • Weller WLC100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • Aoyue Soldering Iron Tip Cleaner with Brass (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C789EU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) - 0.6 oz cuts x 2
  • MG Chemicals 400 Series #3 Fine Braid Super Wick with RMA Flux, 5' Length x 0.075" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008O9VX6O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

And of course my Prime ran out a couple days ago, so slow shipping...  But when it all gets here, I'll start desoldering in earnest!  Still need to get a tip tinner--probably at RadioShack on my way home from work today.  Do you think the stock Weller WLC100 tip is sufficiently narrow if I'm careful, or do I need to get a smaller one?

Thanks for everyone's tips in this thread!

Well, it looks like I will be following Photoelectric's footsteps and purchasing pretty much the same items. I will need some equipment for putting together an Ergodox, and after reading the thread, his choices seem to have quite a good cost:performance ratio. I think I will need to find something to help remove the smoke on top of this.

How often does one tin the tip while soldering? After x minutes? After y joints soldered?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:28:36
Cool, yeah, I'd read the threads and read Amazon / google results for comments on my choices, and they seemed to be solid.  I like that you can buy smaller cuts of quality solder and braid from Amazon.  It should all arrive today, and I'll see how much solder is actually in those sections.  Might need to add one or two more cuts before my Prime membership runs out :)  I also ordered a Used Like New soldering iron (from Amazon Warehouse Deals) to save a few dollars.

From what I understand, you want to tin the tip every few minutes.   And a separate tip tinner is not required--just use your solder line.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:29:02
you will actually be able to see the oxidization form on the tip. a tinned tip without oxidization is shiny silver. as it oxidizes it will change color (usually to something nasty and brownish). just toss more solder and flux on. the flux will eat through the oxidization and the solder will form a thin coat over the surface. this coating stays pretty much constant thickness as long as you wipe the excess off or use it to make joints.

for the fumes, my diy fume extractor cookbook is here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40060.msg791820#msg791820

i'll append some of my newer LARGE PRIORITY BOX designs (ahahahahah).

but seriously, i'm actually going to make some proper ones now that i've found a good cheap source of carbon.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:40:51
Cool, yeah, I'd read the threads and read Amazon / google results for comments on my choices, and they seemed to be solid.  I like that you can buy smaller cuts of quality solder and braid from Amazon.  It should all arrive today, and I'll see how much solder is actually in those sections.  Might need to add one or two more cuts before my Prime membership runs out :)  I also ordered a Used Like New soldering iron (from Amazon Warehouse Deals) to save a few dollars.

From what I understand, you want to tin the tip every few minutes.   And a separate tip tinner is not required--just use your solder line.

Yes, I too went with the Amazon Warehouse choice :) I'd be interested in hearing how you like the tools when you get a chance to use them.

you will actually be able to see the oxidization form on the tip. a tinned tip without oxidization is shiny silver. as it oxidizes it will change color (usually to something nasty and brownish). just toss more solder and flux on. the flux will eat through the oxidization and the solder will form a thin coat over the surface. this coating stays pretty much constant thickness as long as you wipe the excess off or use it to make joints.

for the fumes, my diy fume extractor cookbook is here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40060.msg791820#msg791820

i'll append some of my newer LARGE PRIORITY BOX designs (ahahahahah).

but seriously, i'm actually going to make some proper ones now that i've found a good cheap source of carbon.

Thanks, mkawa, I will take a look at this.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:43:35
I have an air purifier I inherited from a friend.  What do you think if I'll put it immediately next to my soldering area with intake vents facing the spot where I'll be soldering?  I'm hoping that will draw some of the fumes away in a different direction.  Then I'll have to have all the windows open.  Soldering outside or in a garage is not an option for me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:46:04
what kind of air purifier? the vast majority of "air purifiers" sold commercially are meant to extract money from hypochondriacs and not fumes or particulates from air
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 26 June 2013, 11:53:20
Most of the industrial type soldering fume filters that I've looked at are basically carbon prefilters with 99.97 or higher hepa after that. So if the air purifier is similar in that regard, then there shouldn't be too much of a difference aside from not having a hose that you can point directly at the soldering area. If you can solder right next to the intake of the purifier, that's fine too :P

Edit: Of course the industrial ones are built to higher quality standards, and are likely sealed better to prevent bypass. YMMV on the consumer grade stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 26 June 2013, 12:03:13
It's probably a crappy one... Honeywell something with a washable filter.  I'll have to look.  I meant using it more for the purpose of drawing the solder fumes away from under my nose in a different direction, since it's pretty good at fanning air.  Then going for the best air circulation in a room with open windows.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 12:33:17
I've got the recommended desoldering iron from RadioShack so far.  Almost got my first switch out last night (but there's a skinny filament of solder left inside one of the holes, so waiting for other tools to arrive.

Ordered these from Amazon for my 2 Filco TKL projects :)

  • Weller WLC100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • Aoyue Soldering Iron Tip Cleaner with Brass (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C789EU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) - 0.6 oz cuts x 2
  • MG Chemicals 400 Series #3 Fine Braid Super Wick with RMA Flux, 5' Length x 0.075" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008O9VX6O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

And of course my Prime ran out a couple days ago, so slow shipping...  But when it all gets here, I'll start desoldering in earnest!  Still need to get a tip tinner--probably at RadioShack on my way home from work today.  Do you think the stock Weller WLC100 tip is sufficiently narrow if I'm careful, or do I need to get a smaller one?

Thanks for everyone's tips in this thread!

I just noticed the wick you chose has flux in it. That means the board would need to be cleaned after using it, correct? Would something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-400-NS-Series-Desoldering/dp/B00424MWHO/ref=pd_luc_sim_01_03_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

be a better option? Or do wicks with flux perform better?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 12:34:18
the industrial SOLDER FUME EXTRACTOR units are largely made to extract money from factories and labs that need to get ISO certified. they do the job, because if they didn't you couldn't get certification, but they're usually overkill and SO SO EXPENSIVE

filtration 101 (abbrev):

self-contained filtering of gases and liquids consist of exactly two components. 1) a pump. 2) a filter. it is exactly that simple. pumps are pumps. in gases we typically use axial fans or centrifugal blowers/turbines. in liquids, we do exactly the same thing but with more torque :)). filters come in exactly two varieties: chemical and mechanical.

an example of a mechanical filter is a paper HEPA filter. HEPA N is a standard that says that a filter media (the paper), when put in some exact laboratory situation with a blower, will act as a particle diameter low pass filter with efficiency N. that is, at least N percent of the low-diameter particles will stop at the filter, the rest can go through. this is measured over some period of time in an airtight chamber, with a specification blower, i believe, but feel free to correct me on that.

hence, mechanical filters physical block particulates above a certain effective diameter with a certain efficiency.

note that there is no standardized testing committee that certifies hepa filters THAT I KNOW OF. i imagine there is some authorized set of ISO testers. i don't really know and don't own a factory so i don't care.

a chemical filter is a medium which _neutralizes_ airborne chemical compounds via some kind of reaction (hereafter rx). the rx is open, the bandwidth of compounds is open, and the meaning of neutralize is open. i am not familiar with any standards that apply to this action.

however, typically, the kinds of things that people worry about (that are bad for one's lungs to breathe) are organic compounds, because our lungs aren't very good at dealing with those for reasons i don't particularly care to understand (probably because we're made of carbon so they stick to our little oxygen absorber thingamajigs). by definition, an organic compound which can be vaporized and become airborne is called a volatile organic compound (VOC). recall that organic compounds are all compounds that contain the element carbon. hence, what we are worried about is airborne contaminants which have carbon somewhere in their chemical construction. hence, we've come up with a fantastic way to neutralize them. we produce more carbon, negatively charge it, and give it lots of surface area, and then pass the air over it. ta-da! some poor charcoal has taken the blow and had to become attached to this nasty compound instead of our lungs. NEUTRALIZED *****. there is a standard for this, because it's actually incredibly effective, and there are tons of organic compounds which are very nasty carcinogens. also lung cancer ****ing sucks, it grows quickly and kills you in the most painful possible way.

another type of chemical filter is a silver mesh. for reasons i can't remember at all, silver does nasty things to cell walls, so if you're a small enough airborn micro-organism and your cell wall is of a garden variety (tuberculosis and many other microorgs have weird hardened cell membranes), contact with the silver might kill you. again, no standardized testing really.

SOLDER FUMES:

are all fumes from the flux burning. the metal in the solder is very heavy and we don't solder at high enough temperatures to vaporize it (like 900K). rosin flux burns to a remarkably harmless compound which i can't remember at all, but is picked up most effectively by a chemical filter. hence, i'm going out now to buy 40lbs of ionized charcoal pellets. BYE EVERYONE!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 26 June 2013, 12:34:46
I just noticed the wick you chose has flux in it. That means the board would need to be cleaned after using it, correct? Would something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-400-NS-Series-Desoldering/dp/B00424MWHO/ref=pd_luc_sim_01_03_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1

be a better option? Or do wicks with flux perform better?

It will get flux onto it from the solder anyway.  Cleaning is not critical--just for neatness sake.  Flux will not harm anything.  I got the braid with flux to soak up solder better, so you don't have to add flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 12:42:07
I was watching WhiteFireDragon's ergodox assembly on YouTube. I noticed that he used some solder paste at one point. Does anyone recommend or recommend against using this?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:02:31
1) ROSIN flux is acidic and can eat away at things if you don't clean it. hence the invention of no-clean flux, which is inert.

2) flux is a dialectric. if you have uncleaned flux inside of a lot of joints then the joints can carry non-trivial amounts of capacitance, which can **** with your circuit. ideally you should actually reflow if this is the case, but cleaning the flux turns those into easier to see air gaps, so you KNOW you need to reflow

3) solder paste is just ground up solder and flux. it has a shelf life, because flux has a shelf life iirc. it's useful in situations where you want to apply flux and solder to only one end of very small joints, ie some smt work. otherwise, it doesn't tend to be very helpful.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:20:25
1) ROSIN flux is acidic and can eat away at things if you don't clean it. hence the invention of no-clean flux, which is inert.

2) flux is a dialectric. if you have uncleaned flux inside of a lot of joints then the joints can carry non-trivial amounts of capacitance, which can **** with your circuit. ideally you should actually reflow if this is the case, but cleaning the flux turns those into easier to see air gaps, so you KNOW you need to reflow

3) solder paste is just ground up solder and flux. it has a shelf life, because flux has a shelf life iirc. it's useful in situations where you want to apply flux and solder to only one end of very small joints, ie some smt work. otherwise, it doesn't tend to be very helpful.

Thanks. In that light, maybe I will consider getting a desoldering pump instead of a wick.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:24:50
nice to have both if you don't have a dedicated electromechanical unit like the hakko 808. i don't desolder a lot so i'm good with just an edsyn soldapullt classic and a couple widths of rosin wick, but ymmv. easy to clean solder off. get ****-grade iso alcohol from the drug store. costs a buck. find an old toothbrush - free. scrub board with toothbrush and alcohol. done
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:28:06
Thanks. In that light, maybe I will consider getting a desoldering pump instead of a wick.

FWIW, I have a desoldering bulb like what WFD uses in his Ergo-Clear mod video. I have had zero luck with getting the pumps (Soldapults) to work. I find the bulbs and the wicks to work better than the pumps.

And I used to work at an internship where I soldered/desoldered daily for hours.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:33:58
the industrial SOLDER FUME EXTRACTOR units are largely made to extract money from factories and labs that need to get ISO certified. they do the job, because if they didn't you couldn't get certification, but they're usually overkill and SO SO EXPENSIVE

More
filtration 101 (abbrev):

self-contained filtering of gases and liquids consist of exactly two components. 1) a pump. 2) a filter. it is exactly that simple. pumps are pumps. in gases we typically use axial fans or centrifugal blowers/turbines. in liquids, we do exactly the same thing but with more torque :)). filters come in exactly two varieties: chemical and mechanical.

an example of a mechanical filter is a paper HEPA filter. HEPA N is a standard that says that a filter media (the paper), when put in some exact laboratory situation with a blower, will act as a particle diameter low pass filter with efficiency N. that is, at least N percent of the low-diameter particles will stop at the filter, the rest can go through. this is measured over some period of time in an airtight chamber, with a specification blower, i believe, but feel free to correct me on that.

hence, mechanical filters physical block particulates above a certain effective diameter with a certain efficiency.

note that there is no standardized testing committee that certifies hepa filters THAT I KNOW OF. i imagine there is some authorized set of ISO testers. i don't really know and don't own a factory so i don't care.

a chemical filter is a medium which _neutralizes_ airborne chemical compounds via some kind of reaction (hereafter rx). the rx is open, the bandwidth of compounds is open, and the meaning of neutralize is open. i am not familiar with any standards that apply to this action.

however, typically, the kinds of things that people worry about (that are bad for one's lungs to breathe) are organic compounds, because our lungs aren't very good at dealing with those for reasons i don't particularly care to understand (probably because we're made of carbon so they stick to our little oxygen absorber thingamajigs). by definition, an organic compound which can be vaporized and become airborne is called a volatile organic compound (VOC). recall that organic compounds are all compounds that contain the element carbon. hence, what we are worried about is airborne contaminants which have carbon somewhere in their chemical construction. hence, we've come up with a fantastic way to neutralize them. we produce more carbon, negatively charge it, and give it lots of surface area, and then pass the air over it. ta-da! some poor charcoal has taken the blow and had to become attached to this nasty compound instead of our lungs. NEUTRALIZED *****. there is a standard for this, because it's actually incredibly effective, and there are tons of organic compounds which are very nasty carcinogens. also lung cancer ****ing sucks, it grows quickly and kills you in the most painful possible way.

another type of chemical filter is a silver mesh. for reasons i can't remember at all, silver does nasty things to cell walls, so if you're a small enough airborn micro-organism and your cell wall is of a garden variety (tuberculosis and many other microorgs have weird hardened cell membranes), contact with the silver might kill you. again, no standardized testing really.

SOLDER FUMES:

are all fumes from the flux burning. the metal in the solder is very heavy and we don't solder at high enough temperatures to vaporize it (like 900K). rosin flux burns to a remarkably harmless compound which i can't remember at all, but is picked up most effectively by a chemical filter. hence, i'm going out now to buy 40lbs of ionized charcoal pellets. BYE EVERYONE!

Sounds like you just need a gasmask :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:37:22
nice to have both if you don't have a dedicated electromechanical unit like the hakko 808. i don't desolder a lot so i'm good with just an edsyn soldapullt classic and a couple widths of rosin wick, but ymmv. easy to clean solder off. get ****-grade iso alcohol from the drug store. costs a buck. find an old toothbrush - free. scrub board with toothbrush and alcohol. done

You're right, it's pretty cheap. I will probably grab a wick as well. I don't plan on doing much desoldering, but I plan to make some mistakes.

Thanks. In that light, maybe I will consider getting a desoldering pump instead of a wick.

FWIW, I have a desoldering bulb like what WFD uses in his Ergo-Clear mod video. I have had zero luck with getting the pumps (Soldapults) to work. I find the bulbs and the wicks to work better than the pumps.

And I used to work at an internship where I soldered/desoldered daily for hours.

Thanks, I may pick that one up as it is fairly cheap. Hard to know what to get without having tried everything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:44:12
Anybody try the hakko bit multipacks found on ebay that come from china?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 26 June 2013, 13:55:48
Anybody try the hakko bit multipacks found on ebay that come from china?

I think the_beast has
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 14:02:12
as long as you put something on there that conducts heat and does not warp the pencil barrel, you should be good. the only trick is that each tip will have its own thermal profile and ideally requires calibration of the regulator. then again, we've already covered the ghetto method of calibration earlier (10: turn temp up, does solder flow? if not, GOTO 10).

gas masks are just filters that use your lungs as the pump.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 26 June 2013, 15:17:52
the industrial SOLDER FUME EXTRACTOR units are largely made to extract money from factories and labs that need to get ISO certified. they do the job, because if they didn't you couldn't get certification, but they're usually overkill and SO SO EXPENSIVE

Yep, definitely overkill and expensive. But while activated charcoal by itself is sufficient, there is research that suggests that a HEPA postfilter can offer some additional benefit (and wouldn't hurt anyway). The foam type activated charcoal is definitely useless:

link (http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/8/511.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=lead+oxide+fumes&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&fdate=1/1/1844&tdate=6/30/2007&resourcetype=HWCIT)

Note that as per this (http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg248.pdf) flux fumes can definitely be harmful. But as per the link above, the ability to effectively draw them away from your face is just as important as its ability to filter.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:21:48
the industrial SOLDER FUME EXTRACTOR units are largely made to extract money from factories and labs that need to get ISO certified. they do the job, because if they didn't you couldn't get certification, but they're usually overkill and SO SO EXPENSIVE

Yep, definitely overkill and expensive. But while activated charcoal by itself is sufficient, there is research that suggests that a HEPA postfilter can offer some additional benefit (and wouldn't hurt anyway). The foam type activated charcoal is definitely useless:

link (http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/42/8/511.abstract?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&fulltext=lead+oxide+fumes&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&fdate=1/1/1844&tdate=6/30/2007&resourcetype=HWCIT)

the foam type is just foam dyed black. seriously. it's foam that they dip in water with some carbon powder in it so that it comes out black. useless. yes, a paper media filter can never hurt. but if you're DIYing, don't think you need to go buy a paper media filter and figure out how to get your contraption to flow through it. literally flowing air through strong bags full of charcoal is basically as effective. one point to mention about hepa mechanical filters is that they produce a really large amount of backpressure (unless, of course, they don't work!).

Quote
Note that as per this (http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg248.pdf) flux fumes can definitely be harmful. But as per the link above, the ability to effectively draw them away from your face is just as important as its ability to filter.
assuming you're in a sufficiently aerated space. i happen to not be actually, so i be filling garbage bags full of carbon.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:25:29
it occurs to me that one cool option is a diy air to fluid transfer mechanism. think bong but fill the water exchange part of the thing with charcoal, and of course, use a real pump, not your lungs. the air to liquid transfer slow the vocs WAY DOWN and exposes them to _all_ of the surface area of your charcoal. plus, it would look insanely cool.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:30:36
What about this:
(http://www.allergyasthmatech.com/ProdImages/M7000.jpg)

With the 99.7 hepa filters? or a military surplus gas mask?


Hardcore soldering!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:36:28
tdlr from above. hepa is a particulate standard. soldering gives off VOCs, not much in the way of particulates.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 26 June 2013, 20:53:26
  • Weller WLC100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • Aoyue Soldering Iron Tip Cleaner with Brass (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C789EU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) - 0.6 oz cuts x 2
  • MG Chemicals 400 Series #3 Fine Braid Super Wick with RMA Flux, 5' Length x 0.075" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008O9VX6O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
These finally arrived, and I successfully desoldered Filco LEDs, which were a pain due to the tiny solder-filled holes.  But that braid was quite nice.  I had to put some solder onto the soldering iron tip, and then press the tip against the braid.  Cleaned up the PCB with alcohol afterwards--nice and clean.  Was very satisfying!  I ordered another 5' section of the braid and yet another cut of the solder--just in case. 

I've got everything for my ergo-Clear mod now, just need to wait for the new steel universal TKL plates to start shipping...  Hope that won't be a terribly long wait. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:12:44
  • Weller WLC100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • Aoyue Soldering Iron Tip Cleaner with Brass (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C789EU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
  • MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) - 0.6 oz cuts x 2
  • MG Chemicals 400 Series #3 Fine Braid Super Wick with RMA Flux, 5' Length x 0.075" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008O9VX6O/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
These finally arrived, and I successfully desoldered Filco LEDs, which were a pain due to the tiny solder-filled holes.  But that braid was quite nice.  I had to put some solder onto the soldering iron tip, and then press the tip against the braid.  Cleaned up the PCB with alcohol afterwards--nice and clean.  Was very satisfying!  I ordered another 5' section of the braid and yet another cut of the solder--just in case. 

I've got everything for my ergo-Clear mod now, just need to wait for the new steel universal TKL plates to start shipping...  Hope that won't be a terribly long wait.

Good to hear that everything worked out well. I'm excited for my orders to arrive, although I still have a while to wait for the ergodox to ship. Maybe I can find something to solder around the house.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stoic-lemon on Wed, 26 June 2013, 21:21:39
I have have a soldering related question that is totally keyboard unrelated.

My friend has a necklace she broke and wants repaired. Would it be possible to solder this back together? It is very small. Do you think it would hold up even if one could repair it in the first place? I'm afraid I'm not sure what it is made out of.

[attach=1]

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 27 June 2013, 00:27:31
yes and no. you don't use electronics solder for that, and you need to repair the mechanical break first. she needs to bring it to a jeweler
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stoic-lemon on Thu, 27 June 2013, 00:33:03
Thank you! I'll let her know.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thimplum on Thu, 27 June 2013, 14:39:26
never solder when you're tired.

Haha! So true.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Defying on Thu, 27 June 2013, 15:44:43
This is probably the wrong place for this, but I'm planning on buying a soldering iron and the requirements soon to replace switches on my QFR.

What would I need without going overboard on price? I'm looking to spend a little under $100 for everything.
I'm currently looking at the WLC100 and the desoldering bulb from RadioShack, but the solder and whatever else I need is where I'm lost.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 27 June 2013, 18:03:20
This is probably the wrong place for this, but I'm planning on buying a soldering iron and the requirements soon to replace switches on my QFR.

What would I need without going overboard on price? I'm looking to spend a little under $100 for everything.
I'm currently looking at the WLC100 and the desoldering bulb from RadioShack, but the solder and whatever else I need is where I'm lost.

Thanks!

Check out the stuff I got: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg933875#msg933875

Plus I also got the desoldering iron from RadioShack.  The total was WELL below $100, and it's been working well so far.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: grips on Thu, 27 June 2013, 18:53:28
This is probably the wrong place for this, but I'm planning on buying a soldering iron and the requirements soon to replace switches on my QFR.

What would I need without going overboard on price? I'm looking to spend a little under $100 for everything.
I'm currently looking at the WLC100 and the desoldering bulb from RadioShack, but the solder and whatever else I need is where I'm lost.

Thanks!

Check out the stuff I got: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg933875#msg933875

Plus I also got the desoldering iron from RadioShack.  The total was WELL below $100, and it's been working well so far.

Have you had a chance to use the desoldering iron as well? How does it compare to the wick?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 27 June 2013, 18:56:24
The desoldering iron was kind of hard to use.  I got pretty inconsistent amounts of solder socked in, especially if there was solder  deeper within the holes (which is a "feature" of Filco boards, they advertise having solder going all the way through the PCB onto the other side, and it's one of those lead-free solders too, so harder to melt).  I think I prefer the desoldering braid for greater control.  I'll still use the desoldering iron, but if I get frustrated with it in the process, I'll switch to the braid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Thu, 27 June 2013, 20:42:54
I got my FX888D today and oh man, it is sweet.
I've been stuck using a weller soldering gun with a huge tip for the longest time.

Today I rewired my headphones, wanted a lighter and longer cord, the station made everything so quick in comparison, well, maybe that and I've soldered a few things here and there since I started.

Definitely worth the dosh, can't wait for the ergodox to come.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Defying on Thu, 27 June 2013, 20:59:25
This is probably the wrong place for this, but I'm planning on buying a soldering iron and the requirements soon to replace switches on my QFR.

What would I need without going overboard on price? I'm looking to spend a little under $100 for everything.
I'm currently looking at the WLC100 and the desoldering bulb from RadioShack, but the solder and whatever else I need is where I'm lost.

Thanks!

Check out the stuff I got: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg933875#msg933875

Plus I also got the desoldering iron from RadioShack.  The total was WELL below $100, and it's been working well so far.
Awesome! I'll definitely look into buying these soon, the pricing for all of that is perfect.

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TD22057 on Thu, 27 June 2013, 23:09:27
I did a bunch of soldering last night w/ my new Hakko FX-888 and I have to say it's awesome.  I never realized how annoying my old cheap soldering irons were until I used the Hakko.  It heats up incredibly fast and the temperature control is fantastic.  I soldered 40 pins onto my teensy++ in rapid succession and every pin took the same amount of time to melt the solder.  My cheap irons would have required waiting for them to heat back up and watching carefully to see when the solder melts for each pin.  I can't believe I waited this long to get a nice iron...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 29 June 2013, 00:10:05
So I just soldered up another ergoDOX, and I must say I'm getting better at those diodes. Noe thing that made the most difference was getting some tweezers. They make positioning the diode and holding it steady during soldering really easy! The tweezers were borrowed from my co-worker (we use them to extract broken off headphone jacks) so I'm going to order some ESD safe tweezers for myself now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 29 June 2013, 01:57:46
Don't buy the plastic ones. They melt... My favorites are a pair in titanium. I don't think they are ESD safe, conductive of course, and you should be grounded yourself anyway for anything to be ESD safe...

I believe these are the ones I have http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/18037TT/243-1081-ND/1953884
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:01:02
wiha makes some extremely nice ones in tool steel that are actually esd safe (plated). about 20 dollars a piece, but will last a lifetime used properly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:11:00
Titanium is naturally non-magnetic I think, which is nice, and quite non-corrosive. And the ones I have serrated grips, and ridges on the grip section.

You don't need the very pointiest tweezers if you aren't going to do very small stuff. I think mine are perfect for the 0603s I usually do with them. Needle point ones bend easy and poke you in the eyes...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:20:45
I bought a $4 pair of steel super fine tweezers


Should I feel bad?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:23:14
Not if you like them =) There is always use for super fine as well. You can never have enough tweezers...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:28:16
I bought a $4 pair of steel super fine tweezers


Should I feel bad?

Nope, you should be stoked that they were only $4.

Edit:  Spelling eludes me at night.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:31:28
I bought a $4 pair of steel super fine tweezers


Should I feel bad?

Nope, you should be stocked that they were only $4.

Here's a link if your interested:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Apex-Tool-Group-Formerly-Cooper-Tools/EROP3SA/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujs3EouTrRyqoLuRZox9NTz%2fuh41f7ezvw%3d
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:35:12
I'm good with my cheapo anti-static ones I grabbed off of Amazon right now, but thanks for the link.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 29 June 2013, 07:56:46
Titanium is naturally non-magnetic I think, which is nice, and quite non-corrosive. And the ones I have serrated grips, and ridges on the grip section.

You don't need the very pointiest tweezers if you aren't going to do very small stuff. I think mine are perfect for the 0603s I usually do with them. Needle point ones bend easy and poke you in the eyes...
well you don't point them at eyes unless you really dislike the people you're point at. yeesh!

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aranair on Sat, 29 June 2013, 08:21:57
mmm, quick question: what setting should I be using the WLC100 at? I remember seeing this somewhere but can't seem to find it anymore D:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 29 June 2013, 10:44:31
mmm, quick question: what setting should I be using the WLC100 at? I remember seeing this somewhere but can't seem to find it anymore D:

Depends on for what solder and the task.  On setting "3", I was able to melt hard-to-melt solder on my Filco PCB.  Just start low and turn up the dial gradually until you reach the temperature range needed to do your soldering, and avoid going much higher.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Sun, 30 June 2013, 13:56:37
Now that it's summer things have been toned down a bit and i have more time and now some cash on my side for once xD

anyways, ive saved some up for some equipment, and i want to get into the soldering game.

there is a hobby shop near my current job, so i'm going to head over there in a bit to look to see what they have. if they don't have what i need, i'll order online i guess.

any advice on what to look for when at that hobby shop?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 02 July 2013, 06:55:20
hey, this may be a stupid question, but hey I ask dumb questions all the time, so here is another one.

buying a cheap soldering iron, though i understand that ideally it would be better to buy one with temparature control. but how bad can be buying a simple cheap one be?

would it burn the PCB? or taking a break after a few minutes because it will overheat? etc?

by the way I saw a battery powered soldering iron. is that a good idea or staying out of it?

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Tue, 02 July 2013, 07:23:39
Picked up a cheap soldering iron and some tools to get my skills back up to scratch after a 10 year break. Realising just how useless the $15 irons from hardware stores really are, it's been a pain in the neck de-soldering all the switches on my M0115. Will be investing in an FX888 next week along with a pack of 200 switches from Matias for my first custom  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 02 July 2013, 07:47:07
umm.. i think ill pick up a soldering station then. but just to make sure would solder thickness of 0.5mm and 0.5mm tip do the job?

another thing, how hot should it be? around 150 degress celcius or 200?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 02 July 2013, 07:59:30
here are the melting point of common soldering alloys. keep in mind that you have to locally bring both ends of a solder joint up to these temperatures to complete a solder joint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 02 July 2013, 08:06:37
When soldering in switches, to avoid cold solder joints, do I need to heat up a switch pin AND the metal ring around the hole that the pin protrudes through?  Or is it sufficient to heat the pin and let solder melt around it into the hole?  If the former, I need to invest into a thinner soldering iron tip than my Weller WC100 came stock with.

Also worried about flux residue from desoldering getting into the holes on the PCB.  Is it best to desolder and resolder right away--or better to clean the PCB thoroughly with alcohol, getting into every hole as much as possible, before resoldering?  I wonder about any impurities being stuck on the inner surfaces of the PCB holes where switch pins and LED pins will be connected.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Tue, 02 July 2013, 08:45:08
Picked up a cheap soldering iron and some tools to get my skills back up to scratch after a 10 year break. Realising just how useless the $15 irons from hardware stores really are, it's been a pain in the neck de-soldering all the switches on my M0115. Will be investing in an FX888 next week along with a pack of 200 switches from Matias for my first custom  ;D

Really the radio shack $15 desoldering iron is the best thing when desoldering a ton of switches.  Completely desoldered my WYSE last night in about a half hour, and that was with taking breaks between rows to put the switches in my phantom plate to see how it looks :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 02 July 2013, 09:02:17
I want one of that desoldering iron too but we dont have Radio Shack in Europe.... >:D

and only lead free solder....
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Tue, 02 July 2013, 09:28:31
Speaking of tweezers I just got these in the mail.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BG8WW2Y/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They seem really solid, and really freaking sharp. They come with caps for the ends.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 02 July 2013, 09:56:05
those look pretty good. and they're cheap enough that if they do start failing you just replace them. not bad! i've purchased quite a few useful little things from uxcell before...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 02 July 2013, 10:48:41
I got these a while back and they have worked fine:
http://dx.com/p/lodestar-anti-static-tweezer-tilted-pointy-tip-7042
http://dx.com/p/lodestar-professional-anti-static-tweezers-pointy-tip-7000
Cheapo chinese stuff but they always have free international shipping and their stuff usually works good enough.

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding amount of flux in the solder? What is suitable for PCB work, larger cables, SMD etc? Is it ever recommended that you use flux-free solder and apply it yourself or not at all? Most solder I have seen are in the 1.2% to 2% interval.

Edit: I have never bothered enough to care about which solder I use as I have never encountered it buut I figured I might as well try to get the most suitable.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Tue, 02 July 2013, 11:25:03
Huh, they look like the same tweezers.  ^-^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 02 July 2013, 13:07:19
I got these a while back and they have worked fine:
http://dx.com/p/lodestar-anti-static-tweezer-tilted-pointy-tip-7042
http://dx.com/p/lodestar-professional-anti-static-tweezers-pointy-tip-7000
Cheapo chinese stuff but they always have free international shipping and their stuff usually works good enough.

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding amount of flux in the solder? What is suitable for PCB work, larger cables, SMD etc? Is it ever recommended that you use flux-free solder and apply it yourself or not at all? Most solder I have seen are in the 1.2% to 2% interval.

Edit: I have never bothered enough to care about which solder I use as I have never encountered it buut I figured I might as well try to get the most suitable.
especially with modern no-clean, you can never have too much flux (that stuff is such crap...). it would be too hard to get flux-free solder to flow onto a joint, as oxidization is pretty much instantaneous and the solder needs to bond to the metal under the oxidized layer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Tue, 02 July 2013, 17:50:41
I have a sort of related question to soldering..

Does anyone know what the plastic looking tools are called that pry stuff apart (keyboards so I can solder them?) without breaking the clips?

I've had to use a plastic puddy knife to take a laptop apart, looking for something more professional for the next time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 02 July 2013, 17:59:26
I have a sort of related question to soldering..

Does anyone know what the plastic looking tools are called that pry stuff apart (keyboards so I can solder them?) without breaking the clips?

I've had to use a plastic puddy knife to take a laptop apart, looking for something more professional for the next time.

Do you mean:

(https://griotsgarage.scene7.com/is/image/GriotsGarage/37850?$detail$)?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Tue, 02 July 2013, 18:02:42
take random credit/debit/phone/gift cards.
that would be the cheapest tool you need to open cases.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Tue, 02 July 2013, 18:12:03
I have a sort of related question to soldering..

Does anyone know what the plastic looking tools are called that pry stuff apart (keyboards so I can solder them?) without breaking the clips?

I've had to use a plastic puddy knife to take a laptop apart, looking for something more professional for the next time.

Do you mean:

Show Image
(https://griotsgarage.scene7.com/is/image/GriotsGarage/37850?$detail$)
?

Maybe.. that wedge in the middle on the right looks like it could work. But I've seen the tools in disassembly videos, they look like some sort of composite plastic rounded wedge tools. No idea what they are called.

take random credit/debit/phone/gift cards.
that would be the cheapest tool you need to open cases.

Might try that next time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 02 July 2013, 18:16:40
The middle right one is the one I use for everything keyboard.  The wedge tip does great for popping cases apart and the kinda forked end pops keycaps off faster and safer than anything else.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Tue, 02 July 2013, 18:18:13
I got these in from eBay today
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/03/mehusesy.jpg)
Anti-magnetic too. I'll try find the link

EDIT: http://bit.ly/14M0Otc
Very happy with these I thought they were gonna be poorly built but they are not bad
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Tue, 02 July 2013, 19:49:23
Alright friends, after some research the tool is called a Spudger.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 03 July 2013, 09:01:58
spudgers are plastic or nylon tools used to pry things apart, push things around without scratching the surface below them, push things together, apply tape without those damned bubbles, anything you can use a plastic, nylon, silicone, etc. tool for. it's a pretty catch-all term. the point is that it's not metal, the goal is not to scratch anything, and ideally it shouldn't melt or conduct electricity.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 03 July 2013, 09:18:04
I have a sort of related question to soldering..

Does anyone know what the plastic looking tools are called that pry stuff apart (keyboards so I can solder them?) without breaking the clips?

I've had to use a plastic puddy knife to take a laptop apart, looking for something more professional for the next time.

I've had great success opening Filcos with an "iPod repair tool."

(http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/images/D/ipod-tool.gif)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 03 July 2013, 09:21:58
I used a screwdriver to open my Filco....then I slipped and poked myself with it. I managed to not draw blood so I wouldn't say I stabbed myself. I'm really lucky I didn't try using my pocket knife...

-10/10, would not use again. Be safe and use a small screw driver/plastic tool/spudger and definitely not your pocket knife....and don't try to open boards up in your lap.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 03 July 2013, 09:27:32
my favorite spudgers are these:

(http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mbhwgIEBeIliTagXnBIoXRw.jpg)

i usually find an OBO dealer on ebay and offer them like .5/ea for 20 of them. the great thing/problem with spudgers is that because they're made to be softer than the things they're spudging, they're super easy to tear up, so i usually keep a good dozen around and just toss them with they have so many little marks in them that they're not useful anymore. i've done all kinds of crazy crap to them. snapped off the sharp end, put huge holes into the flat end, melted one, etc. 's fine, just toss and grab a new one out of the box :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:03:49
I have had good experience with the spudger from iFixit. The ones I have are slightly bigger than ones I got from Dell.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:20:35
the ones that ifixit sells are exactly the ones in my post above. they are available for about an order of magnitude less money directly from HK or mainland china with relatively low MOQ
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 03 July 2013, 11:42:27

I've had great success opening Filcos with an "iPod repair tool."

Show Image
(http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/images/D/ipod-tool.gif)


I've been using one of those for o-ring placement and as a keycap remover :D  Regular old credit cards to open cases, though it's a pain either way.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 03 July 2013, 12:21:45

I've had great success opening Filcos with an "iPod repair tool."

More
Show Image
(http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/images/D/ipod-tool.gif)

I found it incredibly easy to open my QFR and RK9000 with a putty knife.  If you're carefull, a good metal one won't scratch anything, but if you want to be safe, there are plenty of sturdy plastic ones that will do the trick.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 03 July 2013, 13:16:07
the ones that ifixit sells are exactly the ones in my post above. they are available for about an order of magnitude less money directly from HK or mainland china with relatively low MOQ

Good to know, I need to order some of these then!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Wed, 03 July 2013, 17:07:09
I have a sort of related question to soldering..

Does anyone know what the plastic looking tools are called that pry stuff apart (keyboards so I can solder them?) without breaking the clips?

I've had to use a plastic puddy knife to take a laptop apart, looking for something more professional for the next time.

I got this white plastic tool that was made specifically to remove the top case from Cooler Master, which works like a thing smooth wedge.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 03 July 2013, 18:32:08
speaking of putty knives. a putty knife for the purposes of clay sculpting sharped on 1000+ grit sandpaper (wet keeps the paper in the best shape) works extremely well as a spudger too. obviously you want the plastic or nylon ones not the metal ones.

i got mine for 0.75/ea at the art store. they seem very pbt, but i have not confirmed.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MKULTRA on Wed, 03 July 2013, 21:30:55
Just got all my soldering supplies today!  Can't wait for GON to ship my PCB and case and stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 03 July 2013, 22:13:58
I have a sort of related question to soldering..

Does anyone know what the plastic looking tools are called that pry stuff apart (keyboards so I can solder them?) without breaking the clips?

I've had to use a plastic puddy knife to take a laptop apart, looking for something more professional for the next time.

I got this white plastic tool that was made specifically to remove the top case from Cooler Master, which works like a thing smooth wedge.

I have some of these, still in the packaging. Forgot all about them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kenmai9 on Wed, 03 July 2013, 22:26:47
If I want to just desolder switches and re solder new switches all I need is an iron, solder and wick right? Why does everyone keep buying de soldering irons? Is wick not sufficient enough?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 03 July 2013, 22:27:35
If I want to just desolder switches and re solder new switches all I need is an iron, solder and wick right? Why does everyone keep buying de soldering irons? Is wick not sufficient enough?

I hate wicks, suckers a better IMO
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Wed, 03 July 2013, 23:09:57
If I want to just desolder switches and re solder new switches all I need is an iron, solder and wick right? Why does everyone keep buying de soldering irons? Is wick not sufficient enough?

I hate wicks, suckers a better IMO

Totally agree, I can desolder a whole board in about 10 mins with a pump, braid would take far longer!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 13:52:50
Ok, I did something stupid and pulled out one of the copper rings around the PCB holes that gets soldered to a switch pin.  Is this fixable in any way?  The silver metal ring around the back of the PCB, connecting to traces, is still there and fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 04 July 2013, 13:58:35
Ok, I did something stupid and pulled out one of the copper rings around the PCB holes that gets soldered to a switch pin.  Is this fixable in any way?  The silver metal ring around the back of the PCB, connecting to traces, is still there and fine.

Are you talking about a PCB land?  Do you have a picture?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 14:13:44
Yup, it's that one.  The rest are coming out neatly as I'm maneuvering with a desoldering braid to get all the small stuck bits disconnected.

Pause, left pin hole:
(http://i.imgur.com/FNQBLTC.jpg)

Same but from the back side--looks normal (except all the flux I've not yet cleaned off)
(http://i.imgur.com/g5zwyE3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 04 July 2013, 14:21:41
As long as the land isn't connected to a trace you should be ok.  You really need to get yourself a solder pump or bulb though. It makes it so much easier to desolder and you get nicer looking lands and don't have to worry as much about burning the land or trace.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 14:32:03
That's the problem--I have a desoldering pump/tool from Radioshack.  I got all the solder pools out fine, but some of the switches have tiny filaments of solder remaining.  That's where I've had to add solder and maneuver with a braid, because the pump won't get those out.  And they are not very visible either--have to look in carefully, and if the switches don't come out easily but look like they should, that's where those tiny filaments are :( 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 04 July 2013, 14:34:24
That's the problem--I have a desoldering pump/tool from Radioshack.  I got all the solder pools out fine, but some of the switches have tiny filaments of solder remaining.  That's where I've had to add solder and maneuver with a braid, because the pump won't get those out.  And they are not very visible either--have to look in carefully, and if the switches don't come out easily but look like they should, that's where those tiny filaments are :( 

For those types of situations, I apply heat to the small joint and gently pull the component off
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 14:42:17
I've just been adding solder to all thinly-connected pins now and using desoldering braid.  Reliably good result.  Not a fan of the Radioshack sucker tool now =/  Much neater with a braid, and I wouldn't have had to desolder each difficult switch twice.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 04 July 2013, 14:47:26
I've just been adding solder to all thinly-connected pins now and using desoldering braid.  Reliably good result.  Not a fan of the Radioshack sucker tool now =/  Much neater with a braid, and I wouldn't have had to desolder each difficult switch twice.

I hated my radioshack bulb, to be fair. 

Absolutely love my fx-808, but that's not for everyone.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 15:01:16
It seems okay in theory, except that it left 2/3rds of my switches unremovable.  I even heated the pins for a while before using the suction bulb =/  The holes looked neat, but then it would turn out that there was still a thin filament of solder left somewhere inside.  Seems like it's partially a Filco-related annoyance too, as not all PCBs have those copper shafts all the way through to the other side, to trap solder.

How do you wiggle the switch while heating the pins, by the way?  It seems like a 3-hand job...  Unless you clamp the PCB+plate in some vertical position.  Would definitely be nice to not have to refill solder + use desoldering braid on everything--it's been a very slow process, sometimes I have to repeat it 2 or 3 times.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 04 July 2013, 16:56:53
It seems okay in theory, except that it left 2/3rds of my switches unremovable.  I even heated the pins for a while before using the suction bulb =/  The holes looked neat, but then it would turn out that there was still a thin filament of solder left somewhere inside.  Seems like it's partially a Filco-related annoyance too, as not all PCBs have those copper shafts all the way through to the other side, to trap solder.

How do you wiggle the switch while heating the pins, by the way?  It seems like a 3-hand job...  Unless you clamp the PCB+plate in some vertical position.  Would definitely be nice to not have to refill solder + use desoldering braid on everything--it's been a very slow process, sometimes I have to repeat it 2 or 3 times.

I had this exact problem with my Filco MJ-2. With a Hakko 808, not a RadioShack desoldering iron/bulb. So don't feel bad. As long as the land on the back is intact, the switch will still work fine.

FWIW, the singe-sided MJ-1 I desoldered had no such problems.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: khaangaaroo on Thu, 04 July 2013, 17:46:38
FWIW, the singe-sided MJ-1 I desoldered had no such problems.

Makes me even more glad I rolled with cheap single-sided QFRs instead of MJ2s now
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 17:59:15
Ok guys, thanks so much for the help / support!  I got most of the switches out now--a handful to go.  I did end up just heating up the stubborn pins and pushing on the switch from the other side with a flat screwdriver.  That pops them right out :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Thu, 04 July 2013, 19:01:09
Ok guys, thanks so much for the help / support!  I got most of the switches out now--a handful to go.  I did end up just heating up the stubborn pins and pushing on the switch from the other side with a flat screwdriver.  That pops them right out :D

if you do that try using a cheap  IC puller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 04 July 2013, 19:11:04
Woohoo, it's done!  Thanks again!

(http://i.imgur.com/hYllLZw.jpg)

Such a beautiful color--my favorite.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Fri, 05 July 2013, 02:42:52
I'd avoid the solder bulbs, they're rubbish. I've got a de-soldering pump and it's so much quicker than using wick, desoldered 2 boards last night in about 15 minutes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:24:47
Oh yes, forgot to mention, this is what happened to my desoldering tool from Radio Shack after one day of use (more precisely after a few hours of intermittent use):

(http://i.imgur.com/IOZk4S0.jpg)

I made sure to squeeze the bulb a few times after every switch to get all the solder out as much as possible.  Apparently the tip was not made to last at all.  Good thing it only cost me $5, and perhaps I can squeeze another PCB's worth of desoldering out of it, but I have my doubts!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:34:03
Oh yes, forgot to mention, this is what happened to my desoldering tool from Radio Shack after one day of use (more precisely after a few hours of intermittent use):

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/IOZk4S0.jpg)


I made sure to squeeze the bulb a few times after every switch to get all the solder out as much as possible.  Apparently the tip was not made to last at all.  Good thing it only cost me $5, and perhaps I can squeeze another PCB's worth of desoldering out of it, but I have my doubts!

Wow same thing happened to mine after desoldering one board. I guess I'm not the only one! I took it back to Radioshack and they gave me a new iron and replacement tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:35:36
Hrm, I should try that... I think I tossed the packaging though :(  I got it to mod 2 Filco TKL keyboards, and it's dying after 1.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:37:21
When I worked at my internship, I used braid a lot. I got a little fed up with the braid because we had cheap stuff and it wasn't very good. I saw the pumps in the supply closet and someone told me what they did so I was so excited to use them. I figured it would make my life so much easier.

I spent the better part of a day trying to get it to work. I'm talking like 4-6 hours of soldering/de-soldering. When I finally got mad and tossed the pump out, the guys laughed at me so hard.

They soldered/de-soldered for a good portion of their jobs and they couldn't get the pumps to work. They had long since given up on them and let the dumb intern try it out.

With all the praise they get here, I kind of want to try out one. But there's no way I'm paying $30 for something that I've tested and deemed unusable for me.

And my bulb looks like that too. I really don't care how it looks as long as it keeps desoldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheFlyingRaccoon on Fri, 05 July 2013, 09:39:02
Hrm, I should try that... I think I tossed the packaging though :(  I got it to mod 2 Filco TKL keyboards, and it's dying after 1.

Yea these things really aren't high quality. Good luck getting a replacement!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 10:28:39
the 808 and compressor driven dedicated desoldering stations are really the only pumps worth their salt. (although it's a lot of salt). it depends on how much you make from desoldering. usually when i really need to get a part off, a combination of high quality appropriately sized (i keep a variety of widths around) and a soldapult can do the job, but there's usually a certain amount of destruction involved (ie, snipping the component off at the leads).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 10:38:28
How do you use those syringe-like pumps?  You pull with your left hand, while heating a pin with a soldering iron with your right hand?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Fri, 05 July 2013, 10:46:40
How do you use those syringe-like pumps?  You pull with your left hand, while heating a pin with a soldering iron with your right hand?

Soldering iron in dominant hand and then pump in the other. I usually rest the tip of the pump just a few mm away from the solder joint and then as I lift the iron off I move the pump over the solder and hit the button. Takes a bit of getting used to but once you get a rhythm going it's dead easy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Fri, 05 July 2013, 10:47:55
How do you use those syringe-like pumps?  You pull with your left hand, while heating a pin with a soldering iron with your right hand?

They are spring loaded beforehand, you don't need to pull anything when you want to do the actual desolder. You just press the button on it when the solder is melted and it will suck.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 10:52:10
Hrm, that does sound very nice, especially if they have high suction force.  Thank you!  Are there any decent ones at RadioShack, in case I'm allowed to exchange mine?  Or only from places like Amazon.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 12:03:09
as has been mentioned several hundred times in this thread, the soldapullt DS017 is the gold standard for hand pumps. order directly from edsyn or easily available from fry's if you have one locally.

the nozzle is plastic, but quite cheap and replaceable (not that i've ever known anyone who needed to replace any part on a soldapullt..)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 12:20:59
I had a more specific question - don't get mad :)  I know that Soldapult is The recommended tool, but but I was checking about a local alternative,  especially with a possible exchange.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 12:26:22
are you asking if radioshack carries the soldapullt or will refund you? i have absolutely no idea. i can say that i've screwed around with all kinds of desoldering tools fo light use and just having a variety of good wick on hand and a soldapullt has generally worked for me. if you're MMB or alaricljs, you need to spring for either a compressor driven unit or a self-contained unit like the hakko 808. that's pretty much the end-all be-all of desoldering.

oh wait! there is one more option if you just want to recover a board and don't care about the components on it, you can point a hot air gun at the solder and go to town. the temps a good hot air gun hits generally will let the magic smoke out of everything on the board, but the solder will all go liquid at once and you can literally kick the board to make everything magically fall off.

i was pretty bored as a kid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 12:37:23
Thank you.  And my exact question above was "Are there any decent ones at RadioShack, in case I'm allowed to exchange mine?"  I'm good though, I'll figure something out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 12:54:59
OH! the answer to that is no, unfortunately. one of the horrible things i went through was a stupid bulb from radioshack.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:13:56
Pumps are good for removing large amounts of solder. Through hole plating makes the job a lot harder. The old single sided Filco PCBs are a breeze compared to newer ones. Braid is good for getting the last remaining solder off, and for SMD parts. It doesn't completely remove all solder completely either, parts are still often stuck somewhere...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:17:31
sometimes the old heat'n'pull is the only way to separate those suckers

a jig like the always-useful panavise pcb holder, extended vise, or even the jr can be quite helpful here.

for SMT a good pair of tweezers is quite useful, which is why we were discussing tweezers earlier.

the hakko 888d also supports a set of heated tweezers (that of course cost more than the unit itself :facepalm:) if you do a ton of smt rework.

what you don't want to do is ever EVER waste money on one of these "third hands" pieces of crap that are everywhere. here is an example of one: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/a4bb/

DO NOT EVER BUY ONE OR TRY TO USE ONE

they are the biggest pieces of crap i swear to god..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:20:12
Pumps are good for removing large amounts of solder. Through hole plating makes the job a lot harder. The old single sided Filco PCBs are a breeze compared to newer ones. Braid is good for getting the last remaining solder off, and for SMD parts. It doesn't completely remove all solder completely either, parts are still often stuck somewhere...

Yeah, I learned that the hard way :(  I followed the advice of heating up the pins and pulling on the swtich gently from the other side at the same time--that worked very well where tiny inaccessible filaments of solder were left.  Problem with using the soldering braid is that it can get hot enough to melt off the coating on the traces.  Even though it doesn't seem to have a detrimental effect (other than exposing the traces to oxidation), I was going for the neatest job possible.  Next time for my second Filco I'll just be using a suction tool + heating up pins and pulling--no desoldering braid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:23:53
oftentimes a given job (and this doesn't just apply to soldering, but to the practice of taking everything in your life apart piece by piece, measuring it carefully and then putting it back together again OK I HAVE A PROBLEM OK???? I GET IT) requires a combination of tools. heat'n'pull is a great way to get the component out initially. now you have a blob of solder, and if it's thru-hole, possibly two sides to get at it. this is literally the perfect time for a pump like the soldapullt, heat one side with your iron and suck with the other. DONE.

in the process of doing this, you very possibly used an adjustable vice or two, coarse tweezers, some gloves (burning onesself on one's iron sucks!), a good temp controlled iron, etc. etc. etc.

this is the excuse i use for owning so many tools.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:36:34
what gloves are you using for soldering? regular white gloves?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 July 2013, 18:43:16
whatever disposable polymer crap is at hand (hah hah glove joke .... :( )
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: calavera on Fri, 05 July 2013, 19:13:08
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Fri, 05 July 2013, 19:42:25
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.

I got a 1.2 chisel, another 1.6 (the one its comes with), and a 3.2, in case I need to do something big down the road.

For me, I feel like the 1.2 is small enough for SMD, anything smaller seems like it would just be like a needle point.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 05 July 2013, 20:12:26
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.

I got a 1.2 chisel, another 1.6 (the one its comes with), and a 3.2, in case I need to do something big down the road.

For me, I feel like the 1.2 is small enough for SMD, anything smaller seems like it would just be like a needle point.

I use needle points more than anything, but I also do admittedly different stuff than most here.

I'd say look for the 12 pack that floats around on ebay, it's solid tips and has a good selection for a great price.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 06 July 2013, 01:29:44
i don't know about the ebay tips because frankly i'd rather have a single tip that lasts 12 years than 12 tips that give me inconsistent heat transfer for one year each.

also because genuine tips are cheap.

i have one of the smaller needle points i never use, a d16, d32 (for big ****), and some other crap i never use. the d16 is pretty much going to be your go-to tip for almost everything except for joints that need a lot of power. the small tips like the d12 or the needle points are only really useful in situations where you need to be really careful about how much power you're putting into the joint. not that this doesn't include most SMD ICs, because you'll want enough surface area to be able to do a quick wipe downwards across the pins. a needle tip won't allow you to do that, but can be useful for really fine rework.

for wires or big components i break out the d32. the 888d has enough power to make quick work of those if you give it the surface area.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 06 July 2013, 07:01:35
I got a question for your guys.  I was in the process of building a really custom cable for my secret project and bumped the tip of the iron on the insulation of the wire.  Now I have burnt on insulation on one side of the tip.  Any suggestions to get it off without removing the nickel plating?  I have already tried the brass sponge type tip cleaner and tinning the crap out of the tip with mounds of solder but i can't seem to cut through it.

HELP PLEASE.

Melvang
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 06 July 2013, 08:31:03
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.

I use the d24 (2,4 mm chisel) for most trough-hole stuff...
More contact area than the d16 (better heat transfer) but not too big (like the d32).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Cafiend on Sat, 06 July 2013, 10:55:57
Has anyone used a butane soldering iron? I have been looking at them and I'm curious if there
 is a general preference when it comes to computer use.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 06 July 2013, 11:29:33
I got a question for your guys.  I was in the process of building a really custom cable for my secret project and bumped the tip of the iron on the insulation of the wire.  Now I have burnt on insulation on one side of the tip.  Any suggestions to get it off without removing the nickel plating?  I have already tried the brass sponge type tip cleaner and tinning the crap out of the tip with mounds of solder but i can't seem to cut through it.

HELP PLEASE.

Melvang
heat then use a bronze fibered brush

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 06 July 2013, 11:30:15
Has anyone used a butane soldering iron? I have been looking at them and I'm curious if there
 is a general preference when it comes to computer use.
useless. they're for joining copper pipes in plumbing
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 06 July 2013, 12:10:52
Has anyone used a butane soldering iron? I have been looking at them and I'm curious if there
 is a general preference when it comes to computer use.
useless. they're for joining copper pipes in plumbing

Not quite true... https://www.google.se/search?q=butane+soldering+pen&tbm=isch&biw=1700&bih=956

Very high effect, no temperature control. Only good for electronics in a pinch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Sat, 06 July 2013, 12:58:29
What's the best way to remove LEDs?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 06 July 2013, 14:30:21
Has anyone used a butane soldering iron? I have been looking at them and I'm curious if there
 is a general preference when it comes to computer use.
useless. they're for joining copper pipes in plumbing

Not quite true... https://www.google.se/search?q=butane+soldering+pen&tbm=isch&biw=1700&bih=956

Very high effect, no temperature control. Only good for electronics in a pinch.

Yeah, the pens are meant for heavier gauge electronic/wire work.  I've got one that has a crude temp control but I wouldn't use it for PCB stuff.

What's the best way to remove LEDs?


The best way is with a hakko fx-808, an acceptable way is with heat and a soldapullt
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 06 July 2013, 18:58:49
This is sort of soldering and keyboard-related...  Filco USB cables: does anyone know what is that paper-like stuff under the rubber outer insulation?  Just spliced a cable, going to see if I can sleeve it and solder it back together.  Some sort of an anti-static material?  Unsure if it's going to cause problems to have a section without it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 06 July 2013, 19:05:32
This is sort of soldering and keyboard-related...  Filco USB cables: does anyone know what is that paper-like stuff under the rubber outer insulation?  Just spliced a cable, going to see if I can sleeve it and solder it back together.  Some sort of an anti-static material?  Unsure if it's going to cause problems to have a section without it.

Nah, it's just a cheap insulator, you'll be fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 06 July 2013, 19:09:17
Thank you--and since you possibly know about cables then, do you know what this thing is called?

(http://i.imgur.com/Htd8IEt.jpg)

(the "stopper"-like addon to make the cable sit tightly inside the case hole). 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Sat, 06 July 2013, 19:26:31
Thank you--and since you possibly know about cables then, do you know what this thing is called?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Htd8IEt.jpg)


(the "stopper"-like addon to make the cable sit tightly inside the case hole).

cable strain relief
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 06 July 2013, 19:36:04
Thank you very much!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Sat, 06 July 2013, 20:28:27
Where do you get those!!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: calavera on Mon, 08 July 2013, 00:46:11
Thanks for the tips guys.

The Hakko 888 comes stock with D16 I think. So for just basic switch work I should get a D24? I don't think I'll ever need a D12/needle size.
Any recommendations on which solder wire to get? What's easier, desolder pump or desoldering wick?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 08 July 2013, 00:50:14
Thanks for the tips guys.

The Hakko 888 comes stock with D16 I think. So for just basic switch work I should get a D24? I don't think I'll ever need a D12/needle size.
Any recommendations on which solder wire to get? What's easier, desolder pump or desoldering wick?

for solder just get kester 44 (link in op)
and IMO a pump works better for me but I still have some wick around if I need it for what ever

i just bought a new edsyn pump
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181045394315?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Mon, 08 July 2013, 01:13:55
Thank you--and since you possibly know about cables then, do you know what this thing is called?

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Htd8IEt.jpg)


(the "stopper"-like addon to make the cable sit tightly inside the case hole). 

That one is molded into the cable, so you can't replace that part without replacing the whole cable.  They do make types that you mount on the body of whatever the cord plugs into like this:
http://www.delcity.net/store/Strain-Relief-Cord-Connectors/p_800839.r_IF1003?gclid=CKr31fWen7gCFcmj4Aod2AIA0w
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 07:54:11
strain relief is available from any electronics shop

for general soldering work the d16 is great. it's really a jack of all trades. d24 for slightly bigger joints (it's a compromise for the impatient and careful basically), d32 for honkers. d16 can scale down to SMD, so i wouldn't bother going smaller. but d16s take forever to heat up huge joints, so a d32 is a good tip to have around.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 08 July 2013, 09:55:15
To those with the RadioShack desoldering iron w/bulb:

You don't have to replace the entire iron when the tip wears out. They sell replacement tips for like $1.99. When this was my primary desoldering tool, I would go into RadioShack about once a month and buy up all the tips they had in stock each time. Using a new tip really cuts down on the frustration factor. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 08 July 2013, 09:56:36
Thank you, JD!  I'm going to stop by my local RadioShack today to get a new tip.

By the way, how long do the SoldaPult tools last?  I might be getting a used one from someone for a good price, but I don't know if it's a bad idea.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 08 July 2013, 09:58:16
JD You're my hero. Mine cracked from the thermal stresses, which makes no sense btw, and I was so mad.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 08 July 2013, 10:07:08
Thank you, JD!  I'm going to stop by my local RadioShack today to get a new tip.

By the way, how long do the SoldaPult tools last?  I might be getting a used one from someone for a good price, but I don't know if it's a bad idea.

:D

The Soldapullt should last just short of forever, if it's a genuine Edsyn. If it did break, you could just call their customer service at 818 989-2324 and they would probably repair or replace it. I called that number to place my order, and the rep was very helpful. She quoted me less than the listed prices for my order, and you don't even have to purchase their $25 minimum listed on their website. Mine is the trusty DS017.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 10:15:05
list price on the tips (at my fry's) is 3.99. sounds like edsyn will just send you a bunch if you ask though. great frickin company, that
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Mon, 08 July 2013, 10:34:22
If you were to accidentally lift a pad off of a PCB while soldering... what would your options be to fix it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 10:39:32
glue a new pad down. use an adhesive that won't burn at 200C+. then, widen the pad a little bit by etching away at the trace that the pad connects to. it's actually just a thin layer of dieletric covering a copper trace. to electrically connect your new pad to the trace, tin the entirety of the exposed metal at once.

another option if you're soldering a wire to the pad is to find another electrically connected pad to solder the wire to.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 08 July 2013, 10:39:55
What I would do is the same thing I did when I did my HD activity LED mod on my Das keyboard.  Link for that build log is in my signature.

Essentially what I did was break the trace where I drilled the new holes for the LED and rotating the switch.  After that I just followed the traces to the end points and soldered in a jumper wire from pad to pad.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Mon, 08 July 2013, 10:46:00
Man never realised how much of a difference some tip tinner makes with a crappy soldering iron. After desoldering all the switches on a few old boards my tip was covered in crap and wouldn't even catch solder anymore, couple of runs through the tinner and it's good as new. Can't believe I've never bothered buying some before.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:03:37
I've been tinning with my solder line--it's always shiny as a result.  Did not get a dedicated tinner.
(Also got a used Soldapult DS017 for $16 shipped, woop!)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:08:05
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DS-017-Desoldering-Pump-Sucker-Solder-Irons-Removal-Remover-Tool-Blue-L-/181056125691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27c93afb (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DS-017-Desoldering-Pump-Sucker-Solder-Irons-Removal-Remover-Tool-Blue-L-/181056125691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27c93afb)

So I'm guessing this listing is a fake, considering the price and it doesn't say Soldapullt but does use the model number?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:09:14
tip tinner is just solder paste btw.

the hardcore way to clean your tips and heated parts of the iron off are to take some iso and a brass brush and scrub the **** out of everything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:09:45
i also prefer liquid flux. totally up to personal preference though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:12:22
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DS-017-Desoldering-Pump-Sucker-Solder-Irons-Removal-Remover-Tool-Blue-L-/181056125691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27c93afb (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DS-017-Desoldering-Pump-Sucker-Solder-Irons-Removal-Remover-Tool-Blue-L-/181056125691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27c93afb)

So I'm guessing this listing is a fake, considering the price and it doesn't say Soldapullt but does use the model number?

Looks legit, but lacking all Edsyn branding from the listing. My guess would be a clone. The pics are probably from an actual Edsyn DS017.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:26:59
Ok so here is an odd question, I know solder is usually talked about by weight...number of ounces etc, but I've seen some on ebay being sold in 15ft or 20ft rolls.

So my question is how many 'feet' of solder does it take to solder up say a phantom?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:31:21
depends on how clumsy you are and how you like to solder. i use 63/37 0.025 diam and it would probably take me anywhere about 6in? of solder, but that's with board prep and all kinds of weird stuff. personally what i did when i was a youngun was just buy a bunch of different varieties, a small pack each (oz or two by weight and then bought a gigantor roll of the one i liked the most. in my case it was a kester 63/37, but somehow i ended up losing that and ended up with an alphacore 63/37 i also like fine

*shrug*
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:32:41
my current roll, which will probably last until i die, btw, is 1lb of 0.025"
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 08 July 2013, 11:40:06
So 20ft of Kester 63/37 .031 Solder Rosin Core #44 should be plenty for messing around and just 'learning' how to solder then!!

Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 08 July 2013, 12:07:01
I don't think my tip tinner is solder paste. It has some citric acidicy smell to it when I goo around in it. I think it does other things than solder paste does, more cleansing power. I use a brass bristle brush to get bulks of crap of the tip, then I use the tinner, a couple of times if necessary. Sometimes I also rub the extra persistent spots of burnt solder lightly with a scalpel tip to get them off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Mon, 08 July 2013, 12:18:57
my current roll, which will probably last until i die, btw, is 1lb of 0.025"

Ya, I just got a 1lb roll of kester .02 (.5mm) on ebay for like 16 bucks a couple weeks ago.

I don't think I'll ever run out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 12:19:14
it might also have some citric acid in it for degreasing? i use lab grade alcohol for that actually.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 08 July 2013, 12:43:52
My Filco PCB was kind of greasy after desoldering, and since I won't be soldering anything to it for at least a week (waiting on a universal plate), I decided to clean it.  It was a pain, but I think I got a good easy method in the end.  I scrubbed it with a clean toothbrush, dipping into pure alcohol, repeating the process a few times.  Eventually, there was some lint left from cotton swabs I initially used (they get caught on the resistors / diodes very easily), so I scrubbed the dry PCB with a clean toothbrush in a circular motion and used a can of compressed air.  Looks very clean now!  My only concern is for anything that got into the pin holes in the process.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 08 July 2013, 15:50:51
all that matters in any solder joint is that there is:

a) a sufficiently strong mechanical connection
b) a sufficiently low resistance electrical connection (ie, negligible resistance)

note that a and b aren't the same things!! for example, let's say you're soldering two solid core hookup wires together. my favorite method of making the mechanical connection is to make little j hooks at the end of each piece of wire, and then hook the two ends together like little pinky fingers. crimp that down with a pair of pliers or a press if you want less of a bulge at the joint. now, you have a solid mechanical connection (a). now, use a metal brush to clean off the oxidization from the wires or apply some flux. then, heat and solder. the hooky bits form the mechanical connection and the metal alloy which bonds the two pieces of metal carries the current (b). you now have a solder joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: quickcrx702 on Tue, 09 July 2013, 01:28:58
Don't buy the cheapest sodomy iron you can find, and practice on old motherboards or alarm clocks.  Soldering doesn't take too long to learn, but desoldering can be tough if you don't have the right equipment.  You can overheat a board and damage stuff.  Also, try not to breath in too much of the fumes, it's potentially bad for your health.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Charger on Tue, 09 July 2013, 01:35:58
Wear eye protection and long pants; and never solder when you're tired.
or naked... I have only burned my self soldering in my boxers lol. well not really i have also burned myself with clothes on and trying to grab the iron to low
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Tue, 09 July 2013, 01:39:39
Wear eye protection and long pants; and never solder when you're tired.
or naked... I have only burned my self soldering in my boxers lol. well not really i have also burned myself with clothes on and trying to grab the iron to low
pffff, I ONLY solder naked.

EDIT: outdoors

EDIT2: in public
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:02:21
Don't buy the cheapest sodomy iron you can find, and practice on old motherboards...

Oh my.  :-[
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:55:40
what is the mat that wfd is always using in his youtube video's as part of his soldering station?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 09 July 2013, 02:57:58
Wear eye protection

+1 the flux can pop up in your eye. wear safety glasses.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 09 July 2013, 09:35:08
could be a static dissipation mat, or could be temperature resistant. personally, my desk is covered with raw textile carbon woven carbon fiber (60x8" is 20 bucks at mcmaster hah!) so that even when i drop my iron on the table (which yes, i do... :() i don't light anything on fire. carbon fiber is also very minimally conductive, which is basically the deal with ESD safe stuff. so one corner is wired to earth ground basically
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 09 July 2013, 09:41:01
Are the Alvin cutting mats good to use?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 09 July 2013, 10:09:14
Anyone have knowledge / experience with proper cleaning [and possibly lubrication] of switch housing metal parts--like the leaf and such?  I need to clean some old switches, and will probably be using a CRC QD Electronics Cleaner to remove any oxidation initially (as it's cheap for a larger amount), but I'm wondering if lubrication is also going to be good in this case for longer-term corrosion and rust prevention.  Like say Deoxit has a formula that leave a greasy residue (plastic-safe).  CRC also makes a separate product (CRC 2-26 Multipurpose Lubricant) that could be applied after cleaning.  From what I've been googling, people say that cleaning contacts with no-residue cleaners is great, but on moving parts it's good to leave some film of conditioning substances. 

What do you think--excessive for MX Switches?  And moreover, could interact with Krytox lube somehow if used on the front slider parts?  I only took one year of chemistry, so I don't know the proper answer :)

Picture of what I'm talking about:
(http://i.imgur.com/mdCDns4.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 09 July 2013, 10:52:15
Are the Alvin cutting mats good to use?
the alvin cutting mats are great for cutting (i have a few well used ones, and they're brilliant) but they're completely nonconductive so they don't help with esd. also, they melt (ask me how i know ;))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 09 July 2013, 10:54:46
Anyone have knowledge / experience with proper cleaning [and possibly lubrication] of switch housing metal parts--like the leaf and such?  I need to clean some old switches, and will probably be using a CRC QD Electronics Cleaner to remove any oxidation initially (as it's cheap for a larger amount), but I'm wondering if lubrication is also going to be good in this case for longer-term corrosion and rust prevention.  Like say Deoxit has a formula that leave a greasy residue (plastic-safe).  CRC also makes a separate product (CRC 2-26 Multipurpose Lubricant) that could be applied after cleaning.  From what I've been googling, people say that cleaning contacts with no-residue cleaners is great, but on moving parts it's good to leave some film of conditioning substances. 

What do you think--excessive for MX Switches?  And moreover, could interact with Krytox lube somehow if used on the front slider parts?  I only took one year of chemistry, so I don't know the proper answer :)

Picture of what I'm talking about:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mdCDns4.jpg)

my favorite deoxidizer is MG chem's electrosolve. it's pretty insane. it's also terrible for you. CAIG (the deoxit guys) also sell a deoxidizer that i have heard good things about it.  if it _weren't_ switch components, i would say just use a brass brush, but i wouldn't risk an abrasive or pressure on a switch crosspoint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 09 July 2013, 10:59:52
What about the lubrication part, leaving a corrosion-protective residue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 09 July 2013, 11:00:08
hell, solder can pop into your eyes. last time i got an MRI they asked me if i ever soldered and i was like "all the time" and they were like did you wear eye protection?" and i was like "no." and they were like ":/"

but i wear prescription glasses so they ended up being fine with it. otherwise i would have had to do a route through a split lens to look for lead and silver specs that could potentially rip through my eyeballs. you don't want to to either do the split lens thing next time you end up getting imaging done OR have solder rip through your eyeball. wear eye protection. mcmaster, amazon and the usual machining and lab equipment suspects have nicer models that look more like oakleys than those things you wore in high school.

this is also true for light and heavy duty machine work obviously.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 09 July 2013, 11:08:01
On the topic of 'safety gear' do you guys wear any kind of gloves when assembling/disassembling/soldering ?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 09 July 2013, 11:10:35
i wear gloves when working with solvents, non-inert chemicals (like aforementioned electrosolve) and when i'm about to burn myself (usually what happens is i put my hand somewhere, burn myself, swear and then go put some nitrile gloves on). a 400pk is like 10 bucks at costco, and not giving yourself 3rd degree burns is worth 10 bucks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 09 July 2013, 11:12:12
Sometimes I'll wear my perscription safety glasses with the amazing side shields. That's about it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 09 July 2013, 12:00:43
i wear gloves when working with solvents, non-inert chemicals (like aforementioned electrosolve) and when i'm about to burn myself (usually what happens is i put my hand somewhere, burn myself, swear and then go put some nitrile gloves on). a 400pk is like 10 bucks at costco, and not giving yourself 3rd degree burns is worth 10 bucks.

Nitrile gloves melt pretty quick if i remember right so they won't protect you from burns but will protect you from some chemicals.  But the only thing i wear for saftey gear when soldering is 100% cotton shirt and pants with either my prescription glasses or safety glasses from work.  Whenever I am working with powered cutting or drilling tools of any size i wear safety glasses that meat ANSI z87.1 specs and hearing protection.  I have enough hearing damage from working on a flight deck of an aircraft carrier and don't want any more.  I enjoy my music to much. 

And I did wear hearing protection on the flight deck but the EA-6B Prowlers are just that freakin loud.  The exhaust on those points down at a slight angle and is the engines make enough noise to vibrate the 2" steel plate of the flight deck.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 09 July 2013, 12:04:52
your hands hurt like a ***** far before they melt ;)

Quote
Whenever I am working with powered cutting or drilling tools of any size i wear safety glasses that meat ANSI z87.1 specs and hearing protection
this is something i totally should do but don't.

amazon has great deals on peltor and leight earmuffs. they also have great deals on 200pks of all the leight earplugs (my favorites imo)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 09 July 2013, 16:32:35
I get my earplugs from a local Campbells Supply.  It is an industrial contractor supply shop.  100 count of corded earplugs that I can actually wear for 12 hours.  I buy my own for work cause work won't buy the ones that I can wear that long at a shot.  Besides its a tax write off for me.  And it is only $20 every 3 to 4 months.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:12:46
depends on how clumsy you are and how you like to solder. i use 63/37 0.025 diam and it would probably take me anywhere about 6in? of solder, but that's with board prep and all kinds of weird stuff. personally what i did when i was a youngun was just buy a bunch of different varieties, a small pack each (oz or two by weight and then bought a gigantor roll of the one i liked the most. in my case it was a kester 63/37, but somehow i ended up losing that and ended up with an alphacore 63/37 i also like fine

*shrug*

Ok a few more solder questions.

 What's the deal with 'organic' solder?

And are you familiar with Kester SN63/PB37 245 vs 285 in the 0.02 variant? I've seen some on ebay listed as kester 245 and another as kester 285.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 10 July 2013, 22:56:31
285 and 245 are the rosins used in the core of the solder wire. 285 is a mildly corrosive rosin and 245 is a no-clean. kester 44 is the full on eats through oxidization rosin that imo is best for hobbyist usage. the complex fluxes are best for sensitive smd soldering where you need to pay attention to fine tolerances or meet materials requirements for products at retail (eg, rohs requires no-clean and lead-free). we just want to make a joint by any means necessary. and are perfectly happy cleaning flux off of boards and being exposed to small amounts of lead.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Thu, 11 July 2013, 14:28:35
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Thu, 11 July 2013, 14:34:39
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

Go watch some youtube videos
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Thu, 11 July 2013, 14:36:15
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

Go watch some youtube videos

No u.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 11 July 2013, 15:25:49
yes, chisel tips are preferred. the reason is that they have more usable surface area. thermal transmission is a function of materials at the junction and the area of the junction. think about it in terms of either quantum, power, or just oh **** i just touched the stove, and it makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Thu, 11 July 2013, 16:06:34
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

Go watch some youtube videos

No u.

That's what I did  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Thu, 11 July 2013, 16:16:18
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

Go watch some youtube videos

No u.

That's what I did  ;D

Currently in the process of doing so, I'll admit that I didn't really think about watching videos when I made the first post >_>

Gonna go pick up some more soldering gear tomorrow, I found out that I'd missed a few things the first time around.

Also, since the soldering gear isn't cheap I'd like to get more use out of it than an eDox and the occasional repair job; any suggestions for other soldering projects?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 11 July 2013, 16:18:44
Teensy plus hardwired matrix keyboard
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Thu, 11 July 2013, 16:34:29
Teensy plus hardwired matrix keyboard

We'll see how keen I am on doing more keyboard work after I'm done with the eDox.

But more ontopic questions; I'm assuming that I'll want 0,56mm and 0,7mm solder since that's what's closest to the ones recommended(I live in a strange place called metric-land), but should I get some finer solder if I can?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Thu, 11 July 2013, 16:49:38
Teensy plus hardwired matrix keyboard

We'll see how keen I am on doing more keyboard work after I'm done with the eDox.

But more ontopic questions; I'm assuming that I'll want 0,56mm and 0,7mm solder since that's what's closest to the ones recommended(I live in a strange place called metric-land), but should I get some finer solder if I can?

I think you are good with only 0.7mm which is around 0.020" which is good for smd.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Thu, 11 July 2013, 17:33:55
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

Go watch some youtube videos

No u.

That's what I did  ;D

Currently in the process of doing so, I'll admit that I didn't really think about watching videos when I made the first post >_>

Gonna go pick up some more soldering gear tomorrow, I found out that I'd missed a few things the first time around.

Also, since the soldering gear isn't cheap I'd like to get more use out of it than an eDox and the occasional repair job; any suggestions for other soldering projects?

Well, I rewired some headphones, An xbox 360 fightstick, my mouse cord.

Things that I actually needed to fix to get to work again lol
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Thu, 11 July 2013, 17:37:09

Well, I rewired some headphones, An xbox 360 fightstick, my mouse cord.

Things that I actually needed to fix to get to work again lol

I've actually got a headphone repair lined up if it turns out I can't get them repaired/replaced under warranty, hoping I'll be able to get to that tomorrow, and I'm gonna look around if there are any forgotten things needing repair.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 11 July 2013, 22:34:14
Stuff is here. gonna attempt to desolder an old white alps board tomorrow. :) wish me luck
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 11 July 2013, 22:37:50
Stuff is here. gonna attempt to desolder an old white alps board tomorrow. :) wish me luck

Good luck!  An Alps project sounds like fun!  I'm dreading desoldering my second Filco, which needs to happen soon, but it should go smoother now after my lessons from the first one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 11 July 2013, 22:40:14
Stuff is here. gonna attempt to desolder an old white alps board tomorrow. :) wish me luck

Good luck!  An Alps project sounds like fun!  I'm dreading desoldering my second Filco, which needs to happen soon, but it should go smoother now after my lessons from the first one.

I figure i can desolder the board to get some practice in before i tinker with my pure...I'm excited and will be posting questions here if i have them tomorrow  ^-^

special thanks to JD again :* thanks bro
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 12 July 2013, 08:11:34
Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

I also think you should watch some videos, visual learning really is the way to go here!
Anyway, if you are really looking for a quick simple writeup, here is what I do...

- For switch or LED soldering I use a 2,4mm chisel tip
- Also I use leaded rosin core solder with 1mm diameter
- Make sure components sit flush against the PCB and pins sit right
- Set the temperature of the station to 300-350 degree Celsius and wait for heatup
- Make sure your solder tip is clean, if not clean it (repeat that periodically in the process)
- Put the tip in between pad and pin and feed a small amount of solder in the gap between tip an pin for better heat transfer
- Feed solder from the other side into the gap between pin and pad (enough that you get a solid cone shape bonding) and remove tip
- The two steps above should be done fast and finished when the molten solder completely stops smoking (then the flux is used up)
- Inspect the solder spots... You want a shiny uninterrupted cone shape which contacts the whole pad, best use a magnifying glass for that
- If there seems to be something wrong with the spot, desolder -> clean -> redo, or apply some flux (you can get it seperately) and let the spot reflow by heating it up again
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Fri, 12 July 2013, 08:15:09
Stuff is here. gonna attempt to desolder an old white alps board tomorrow. :) wish me luck

Good luck!  An Alps project sounds like fun!  I'm dreading desoldering my second Filco, which needs to happen soon, but it should go smoother now after my lessons from the first one.

Desoldering iron from radioshack really is great, and tips are like $2.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 12 July 2013, 09:09:42
Can anyone recommend a good place to get replacement sponges for the hakko 888 holder?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 12 July 2013, 09:10:42
Target or Walmart? They're just sponges...

I would recommend you get a brass tip cleaner though. Those don't cause as much thermal shock and are better for your tips.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 12 July 2013, 09:13:00
i happent o like the hakko sponge shape

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-A1559-Solder-Cleaning-Sponge/dp/B004P3IXUC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373638334&sr=8-2&keywords=hakko+sponge

i've also seen them at fry's for appx the same price minus ship
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 12 July 2013, 09:13:09
ebay should have them as well
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 12 July 2013, 09:14:52
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200942287295
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Fri, 12 July 2013, 09:26:28
http://www.ebay.com/itm/200942287295

i happent o like the hakko sponge shape

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-A1559-Solder-Cleaning-Sponge/dp/B004P3IXUC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373638334&sr=8-2&keywords=hakko+sponge

i've also seen them at fry's for appx the same price minus ship

I think I would just go buy a pack of sponges and cut them into that shape...  :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 12 July 2013, 10:47:50
Thanks for the info guys.

I found some here

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/cPath/89_142_2013/products_id/198221/n/Hakko-Replacement-Sponge-for-FX888-Soldering-Stations

They are $3.99 plus shipping....the shipping isn't too outrageous either.

I also found them here

http://www.qsource.com/p-3782-hakko-a1559-cleaning-sponge-for-hakko-fh-800-iron-holder.aspx

but they also have wire replacements

https://www.qsource.com/p-3783-hakko-a1561-cleaning-wire-for-hakko-fh-800-iron-holder.aspx

and a few other replacement parts and tips etc...

Shipping from them is fairly expensive however.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Fri, 12 July 2013, 13:56:17
And I have liftoff; just finished desoldering all the switches on my old WYSE terminal board. Tedious business, but great timekiller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 13 July 2013, 09:31:50
hi5!!!

you are exactly why we are all here, sharing knowledge :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 13 July 2013, 09:45:15
How essential is applying grease to the o-ring on Soldapullt?  Just wondering because I cleaned mine really well, and it had no discernible grease on it to start with (came used), but it seems to have pretty good suction now when I tried it on my hand, though I've yet to desolder with it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 13 July 2013, 09:57:22
Where can I find chisel tips for the yihua 936 hakko knockoff? Preferrably within the uk/eu.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 13 July 2013, 10:07:59
Where can I find chisel tips for the yihua 936 hakko knockoff? Preferrably within the uk/eu.

I think the hakko 936 tips should work. Have you checked on ebay?

But hopefully someone can confirm that first.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: RabRhee on Sat, 13 July 2013, 11:02:15
Where can I find chisel tips for the yihua 936 hakko knockoff? Preferrably within the uk/eu.

I think the hakko 936 tips should work. Have you checked on ebay?

But hopefully someone can confirm that first.

There are Hakko tips on UK eBay for about £2, cheaper if you want copies from Hong Kong,  a guy on this page says he has both a hakko and a Yihua and the tips work for either.
Quote
'For either the Hakko or the Yihua 936, soldering iron assembly’s and tips are very low cost and available on e-bay.'

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1722684

I have an Aoyue 936 hakko clone, and aoyue sell tips for them on UK eBay and Amazon as well, as another possible source.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 13 July 2013, 11:08:55
Thanks for confirmation. I thought hakko tips would be compatible.. just wanted to check. What size of chisel tip would you recommend for keyboard soldering?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 13 July 2013, 11:12:15
Thanks for confirmation. I thought hakko tips would be compatible.. just wanted to check. What size of chisel tip would you recommend for keyboard soldering?

Here is some discussion from the other day on that topic!!

 
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.

I use the d24 (2,4 mm chisel) for most trough-hole stuff...
More contact area than the d16 (better heat transfer) but not too big (like the d32).


Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

I also think you should watch some videos, visual learning really is the way to go here!
Anyway, if you are really looking for a quick simple writeup, here is what I do...

- For switch or LED soldering I use a 2,4mm chisel tip
- Also I use leaded rosin core solder with 1mm diameter
- Make sure components sit flush against the PCB and pins sit right
- Set the temperature of the station to 300-350 degree Celsius and wait for heatup
- Make sure your solder tip is clean, if not clean it (repeat that periodically in the process)
- Put the tip in between pad and pin and feed a small amount of solder in the gap between tip an pin for better heat transfer
- Feed solder from the other side into the gap between pin and pad (enough that you get a solid cone shape bonding) and remove tip
- The two steps above should be done fast and finished when the molten solder completely stops smoking (then the flux is used up)
- Inspect the solder spots... You want a shiny uninterrupted cone shape which contacts the whole pad, best use a magnifying glass for that
- If there seems to be something wrong with the spot, desolder -> clean -> redo, or apply some flux (you can get it seperately) and let the spot reflow by heating it up again
i don't know about the ebay tips because frankly i'd rather have a single tip that lasts 12 years than 12 tips that give me inconsistent heat transfer for one year each.

also because genuine tips are cheap.

i have one of the smaller needle points i never use, a d16, d32 (for big ****), and some other crap i never use. the d16 is pretty much going to be your go-to tip for almost everything except for joints that need a lot of power. the small tips like the d12 or the needle points are only really useful in situations where you need to be really careful about how much power you're putting into the joint. not that this doesn't include most SMD ICs, because you'll want enough surface area to be able to do a quick wipe downwards across the pins. a needle tip won't allow you to do that, but can be useful for really fine rework.

for wires or big components i break out the d32. the 888d has enough power to make quick work of those if you give it the surface area.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 13 July 2013, 11:18:09
Thanks very much ray! I haven't been keeping up with this thread so I completely missed all that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 13 July 2013, 11:43:36
Just ordered the yihua and a 2.4d hakko tip. Looking forward to it!  :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 13 July 2013, 17:11:32
i actually picked up a d24 after all the the people talking about it, and man, it's a really nice compromise. you can go from hookup wire to through-hole without changing tips. sweet ****!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 13 July 2013, 17:34:08
Someone else talked about the d24? ;)
Btw, someone knows where the Hakko 808 can be obtained in 220-240V configuration?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 13 July 2013, 18:35:35
I think it's so awesome that we are getting more people into soldering their own stuff now. This thread seems to be really helpful when people are first getting their equipment setup. I think HobbyKing is going to sell quite a few of those Yihuas now, as they are a really decent entry level station.

I'm torn between the Soldapullt and the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb for an entry level desoldering tool. I personally like the Radio Shack tool better, but it does fatigue your hand after a long session. And the Soldapullt is a high quality tool that I still use when I don't want to break out the Hakko 808 for whatever reason.

I don't have any hesitation recommending the Yihua over the Weller WLC-100, though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 13 July 2013, 18:48:10
I'm torn between the Soldapullt and the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb for an entry level desoldering tool. I personally like the Radio Shack tool better, but it does fatigue your hand after a long session. And the Soldapullt is a high quality tool that I still use when I don't want to break out the Hakko 808 for whatever reason.

Definitely this.  I'll be attempting my next desoldering with a Soldapullt instead of the Radioshack iron, unless I can't master it as well.  Contrary to what was said here earlier, I did not overheat the Radioshack desoldering iron's tip by pressing it into the board or anything, and it still developed a hole after one session.  I just inserted it over a switch pin and then moved it down the touch the PCB just before releasing the suction bulb and did a gentle sweeping turn at the same time.  My left hand was very tired afterwards, and my back as well, as I had to really crouch over the PCB at a bad angle to squeeze the bulb.  Might just be me doing something wrong!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Sat, 13 July 2013, 18:59:04
Today went very well
i have a good grip on what actually is supposed to happen, and how to do it.
Tried to mess around with the alps board, but i was having trouble, so i (carefully) got my pure pcb and successfully desoldered/resoldered a few switches and LEDs.
(http://i.imgur.com/991rCiH.jpg)

then i swapped a blue stem and spring on the esc, which is pretty sweet imo :D
First time having a clicky switch on a keyboard of mine...feelsgoodbro
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smeagol_RP on Mon, 15 July 2013, 17:47:45
I can't desolder the switches of my poker II. Those from QFR was pretty easy. :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 15 July 2013, 18:07:13
second time ever using the iron, spent 3 hours today, desoldered every switch in my poker, thinking i would need to do that to remove the plate, and swap out some stems. turns out i didn't ( :)) ) but it was great practice. desoldering is really, really tedious, but really rewarding and satisfying. took 4 mx whites i had, and put them in the right corner of my poker, aka the arrow cluster. the resoldered everything back on and everything worked. Really productive day, and feels great. very happy to be soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Mon, 15 July 2013, 18:15:22
second time ever using the iron, spent 3 hours today, desoldered every switch in my poker, thinking i would need to do that to remove the plate, and swap out some stems. turns out i didn't ( :)) ) but it was great practice. desoldering is really, really tedious, but really rewarding and satisfying. took 4 mx whites i had, and put them in the right corner of my poker, aka the arrow cluster. the resoldered everything back on and everything worked. Really productive day, and feels great. very happy to be soldering.

Radioshack desoldering iron is much nicer and faster if you were using braid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 15 July 2013, 18:18:07
second time ever using the iron, spent 3 hours today, desoldered every switch in my poker, thinking i would need to do that to remove the plate, and swap out some stems. turns out i didn't ( :)) ) but it was great practice. desoldering is really, really tedious, but really rewarding and satisfying. took 4 mx whites i had, and put them in the right corner of my poker, aka the arrow cluster. the resoldered everything back on and everything worked. Really productive day, and feels great. very happy to be soldering.

Radioshack desoldering iron is much nicer and faster if you were using braid.

apparently it's preference...I'm digging this soldapullt for now
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Mon, 15 July 2013, 18:19:22
second time ever using the iron, spent 3 hours today, desoldered every switch in my poker, thinking i would need to do that to remove the plate, and swap out some stems. turns out i didn't ( :)) ) but it was great practice. desoldering is really, really tedious, but really rewarding and satisfying. took 4 mx whites i had, and put them in the right corner of my poker, aka the arrow cluster. the resoldered everything back on and everything worked. Really productive day, and feels great. very happy to be soldering.

Radioshack desoldering iron is much nicer and faster if you were using braid.

apparently it's preference...I'm digging this soldapullt for now

+1
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:18:39
My padawan is learning quickly. ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 15 July 2013, 20:29:19
Today went very well
i have a good grip on what actually is supposed to happen, and how to do it.
Tried to mess around with the alps board, but i was having trouble, so i (carefully) got my pure pcb and successfully desoldered/resoldered a few switches and LEDs.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/991rCiH.jpg)


then i swapped a blue stem and spring on the esc, which is pretty sweet imo :D
First time having a clicky switch on a keyboard of mine...feelsgoodbro
I want to see pictures of your joints. I want to see how much you've improved :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Mon, 15 July 2013, 22:05:13
My padawan is learning quickly. ;D

learning from the best  :D

I want to see pictures of your joints. I want to see how much you've improved :))

good god...RIP '\' LED haha
maybe I can do a 'moose's mod' esque thread haha
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smeagol_RP on Mon, 15 July 2013, 22:12:40
Took 3 hours to remove all switches from Poker II. I spent about 30min to do it in my QFR. That soldering job... :confused:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 22:34:08
Finished my first keyboard soldering project today!  I was trying to get solder through those copper inserts in the Filco PCB, dunno if I succeeded or how far in the solder went.  Filco advertises their PCBs having solder going all the way through the PCB, so I was thinking about that while soldering.

before cleaning off the flux:
(http://i.imgur.com/F87XlVf.jpg)

Everything works well, woot!  Thans to everyone who's contributed to this thread with information :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smeagol_RP on Mon, 15 July 2013, 22:36:34
Finished my first keyboard soldering project today!

before cleaning off the flux:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/F87XlVf.jpg)


Everything works well, woot!  Thans to everyone who's contributed to this thread with information :)

This PCB is from what keyboard?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Sifo on Mon, 15 July 2013, 22:47:09
It says Filco on it
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 15 July 2013, 22:47:28
The one I painted Copper.  Typing on it right now :D  It's pretty nice!  Still getting used to Clears, as 62g Clears are tougher than my normal Browns.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smeagol_RP on Mon, 15 July 2013, 23:06:59
It says Filco on it

Sorry.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvv4jvx4xj1qemoij.png)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Tue, 16 July 2013, 06:44:31
It's official, I am the world worst solderer! Probably wouldn't have so much trouble but damn these micro-controllers are small, think I need a magnifying visor or something!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 16 July 2013, 08:12:45
I am the worse desolderer ever.... used a sucker and after sucking up all solder from all the switches, only 10% popped out the rest have to redo and about half, i have to solder then desolder again.. the tip of my sucker melted to half the lenght it came with.

but surprisingly everything went perfect when soldering..... :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Tue, 16 July 2013, 08:36:09
Yeah I found with de-soldering when I was having problems it was usually because I was using the sucker a tiny bit too early, solder would cool too much before I could get the pump on the joint. Actually went a lot better wiring the second row of the micro-controller. Started prepping each wire super methodically and making sure everything was perfect before applying solder, once I slowed down a bit everything went together nicely!

Wish I could source Teensy or similar locally, absolute pain in the arse waiting for them to ship from the US or Hong Kong  :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 16 July 2013, 08:41:02
another thing is that, there is no rasin core solder available, apparently only lead free solder is allowed in Europe. Flux is also banned, so I have to get them from China or UK.

feels like a drug dealer ordering a flux pen from the UK preying it wont get confiscated at the custom, lol   :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 July 2013, 08:52:51
another thing is that, there is no rasin core solder available, apparently only lead free solder is allowed in Europe. Flux is also banned, so I have to get them from China or UK.

feels like a drug dealer ordering a flux pen from the UK preying it wont get confiscated at the custom, lol   :))

I don't think you got that right... You are not allowed to sell stuff made with leaded solder (or something like that), you are still allowed to use it for your own pleasures. Rosin core solder is more or less standard, and nothing would work without flux...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 16 July 2013, 09:07:28
oh sorry, i wasnt sure if i wrote what i meant, :-X just that everywhere i go to buy solder, they are all lead free solder, and cannot find flux pen anywhere in Switzerland, then read somewhere that lead isnt allowed anymore or something, but i managed to get a flux pen from the UK which worked like a charm.

just need to work on sucking out soler as I seem to have such a big problem with it.

by the way, what can you use to clean off flux on the PCBs?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Tue, 16 July 2013, 09:37:45
oh sorry, i wasnt sure if i wrote what i meant, :-X just that everywhere i go to buy solder, they are all lead free solder, and cannot find flux pen anywhere in Switzerland, then read somewhere that lead isnt allowed anymore or something, but i managed to get a flux pen from the UK which worked like a charm.

just need to work on sucking out soler as I seem to have such a big problem with it.

by the way, what can you use to clean off flux on the PCBs?

90% or higher isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 16 July 2013, 09:46:36
Yeah, that's what I use too^

A few rounds of dipping a dedicated toothbrush into alcohol and scrubbing the entire PCB.  Then I dab it with a paper towel, scrub with a dry brush to get all the lint loose, and use compressed air.  2-3 rounds of that, and the PCB gets pretty clean.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 16 July 2013, 10:11:57
isopropyl, isnt it the same as nail polish remover? can i use that instead?

another thing, is it necessary to actually clean the flux off? what if I cant or dont bother??
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 16 July 2013, 10:18:56
isopropyl, isnt it the same as nail polish remover? can i use that instead?

another thing, is it necessary to actually clean the flux off? what if I cant or dont bother??

Nail polish remover contains acetone or similar, which is not at all the same thing as alcohol.  Acetone can be damaging to the PCB.  Don't you have pharmacies or similar that have alcohol for wound cleaning?  That's all you really need--the highest concentration you can get.  No it's not necessary to clean off the flux after you've soldered everything in.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 16 July 2013, 10:30:18
I use regular rubbing alcohol, ethanol (mostly, that stuff isn't very clean...). It takes some scrubbing but it usually gets the flux off. I let my small stuff soak a while and use an ESD safe brush which is just like a larger version of a toothbrush..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Poom on Tue, 16 July 2013, 10:31:08
ah ok, ill check the pharmacy out. Thanks for the input guys.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 17 July 2013, 06:36:47
Well my Yihua just arrived. I haven't used it yet but I must say for a $15 station the quality & feel of it is really good. It might be a knockoff but it doesn't feel like it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:23:30
Well my Yihua just arrived. I haven't used it yet but I must say for a $15 station the quality & feel of it is really good. It might be a knockoff but it doesn't feel like it.
Team Yihua!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:27:39
Well my Yihua just arrived. I haven't used it yet but I must say for a $15 station the quality & feel of it is really good. It might be a knockoff but it doesn't feel like it.

Where'd ya get it? I could use a cheap variable temp station :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:38:36
Well my Yihua just arrived. I haven't used it yet but I must say for a $15 station the quality & feel of it is really good. It might be a knockoff but it doesn't feel like it.

Please tell me how you like it, I really need to get a not ****ty soldering iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:53:00
Well my Yihua just arrived. I haven't used it yet but I must say for a $15 station the quality & feel of it is really good. It might be a knockoff but it doesn't feel like it.

Where'd ya get it? I could use a cheap variable temp station :D

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_USA_Warehouse_.html

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:54:38
Well my Yihua just arrived. I haven't used it yet but I must say for a $15 station the quality & feel of it is really good. It might be a knockoff but it doesn't feel like it.

Where'd ya get it? I could use a cheap variable temp station :D

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_USA_Warehouse_.html



Thanks JD :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:57:32
Thanks JD :)

You're welcome. It's my vision to see a Yihua on every bench. :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Wed, 17 July 2013, 09:59:22
I used the Aoyue 937+ I got from Amazon on a small job over the weekend, very pleased with it so far.  I still have to master the knack of unsoldering LEDs, but it was perfect for tinning and soldering leads for a replacement cable.

Not super-cheap, it was about $60 shipped, but a little cheaper than the Hakko.

Now I need more tips, it only ships with one fine-point one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:03:15
Thanks JD :)

You're welcome. It's my vision to see a Yihua on every bench. :P

Shipping is as much as the iron :p Before I snag this one, is there a better Yihua around $40 that I'd be better off with or is this one just fine?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:07:16
Thanks JD :)

You're welcome. It's my vision to see a Yihua on every bench. :P

Shipping is as much as the iron :p Before I snag this one, is there a better Yihua around $40 that I'd be better off with or is this one just fine?

Yes, it's around $30 shipped, as I have said before, but it is worth the $30.

This is the best option you're going to get for that price. There is a gap between this and the used genuine Hakko 936, which normally go for about $75 shipped. If you are looking for a bargain setup, go with the Yihua 936. If you can afford a bit more for a starter kit, go with a used Hakko 936, or a new Hakko 888 or Weller WES51.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:11:10
Thanks JD :)

You're welcome. It's my vision to see a Yihua on every bench. :P

Shipping is as much as the iron :p Before I snag this one, is there a better Yihua around $40 that I'd be better off with or is this one just fine?

Yes, it's around $30 shipped, as I have said before, but it is worth the $30.

This is the best option you're going to get for that price. There is a gap between this and the used genuine Hakko 936, which normally go for about $75 shipped. If you are looking for a bargain setup, go with the Yihua 936. If you can afford a bit more for a starter kit, go with a used Hakko 936, or a new Hakko 888 or Weller WES51.

Got any experience with the Weller WLC100? That one can be had for $40 shipped off Amazon.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 17 July 2013, 10:56:17
Got any experience with the Weller WLC100? That one can be had for $40 shipped off Amazon.

You will note that I deliberately excluded the WLC100 from my recommendations above. I personally wish the WLC100 would go off in a corner somewhere and die. The WLC100 has no real temperature control, only a variable setting of 1-5. There is no way to know what temp your iron is set at, unless you have an expensive thermal meter, which I'm assuming buyers of a $40 soldering station won't have.

I don't have any hesitation recommending the Yihua over the Weller WLC-100, though.

If you are thinking that the WLC100 must be better because it is $40, over the Yihua 936 which is $15, you are mistaken. The Yihua is almost identical to the Hakko 936 (discontinued), which was a $100 station.

Here is a teardown video comparing the Yihua to the Hakko:

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:00:21
Got any experience with the Weller WLC100? That one can be had for $40 shipped off Amazon.

You will note that I deliberately excluded the WLC100 from my recommendations above. I personally wish the WLC100 would go off in a corner somewhere and die. The WLC100 has no real temperature control, only a variable setting of 1-5. There is no way to know what temp your iron is set at, unless you have an expensive thermal meter, which I'm assuming buyers of a $40 soldering station won't have.

I don't have any hesitation recommending the Yihua over the Weller WLC-100, though.

If you are thinking that the WLC100 must be better because it is $40, over the Yihua 936 which is $15, you are mistaken. The Yihua is almost identical to the Hakko 936 (discontinued), which was a $100 station.

Here is a teardown video comparing the Yihua to the Hakko:


Looks like the Yihua it is :D Sorry for bringing up "it-which-shalt-not-be-named".
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:30:48
the wlc100 is a piece of crap. the yihua hakko 936 clones are 100x better.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:32:18
want to build your own wlc100? buy a light switch dimmer and connected it via twist-on joints to the AC in of the cheapest 55w weller fixed wattage iron. costs less, same damn thing
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:34:16
It seems like this thread goes to extremes sometimes.  WLC100 goes from being a recommended soldering iron for beginners to "a piece of crap".  I'd certainly not call it a piece of crap, as it does the job fine.  If the goal is to educate people about various options they have, it's best to not box them in with THE product to get, then just changing opinion a bit later and call that product a piece of crap and start recommending another.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:44:48
i don't think i ever commented on the wlc100 positively in the past. ask alaric. my opinion has been quite uniform on this one. THAT SAID, it's an iron, it gets hot (EVENTUALLY..... ... ..... no keep waiting ... .... .... .. ok let's try DAMNIT ... ... ..) and you can solder with it.

if you're really budget limited and want a brand name iron (many many years ago i heard a few bad stories about qc on the 936 clones, but they've been in continuous production for 20 years now, so i doubt they have any significant issues anymore..

ok, so if you want to get a brand name iron, go with samwisekoi's advice and get a high wattage weller or hakko fixed wattage, maybe 65w, break it out for big joints, and get a small pencil style 35w iron and use it for more sensitive gear. you will have to learn how to not overheat joints the old way, by trial and error, but you will become a better solderer for it.

i think what you may be thinking of is when i mentioned that alaric put together half the custom boards on this forum using a wlc100. he was just patient and used it expertly. so it's really up to you. knowing what i know now, i would go directly for a hakko 888d. it's a HUGE leap forward in hobbyist irons. a fantastic pencil, super precise regulator, comes with an incredibly useful and just plain nice stand.. it's really really amazing for the price.

that said, ymmv. some people like starting on fundamentals and are insistent on it. the wlc100 gives you the basic idea: it's basically a variable wattage iron. there's a light switch dimmer unit to get you the variable wattage, and it's attached to your basic weller workhorse 55w iron. people have been learning to solder on these things for 50 years and no one died because of it. that said, there are much better options now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Glissant on Wed, 17 July 2013, 11:54:59
This doesn't have a lot to do with what was just talked about in the thread already, but I wanted to say a couple of things.

If you are a beginner and you are worried about having to pay a lot to get something nice; I have something to tell you. You don't have to spend an arm and a leg. Just get the Weller WLC100 because it's a great iron, and with a smaller tip you can even do SMD work pretty easily.
So consider this when you want to get a new iron from that old radioshack/$5 soldering iron.

I also want to want to hype the Edsyn Soldapullt (solder sucker) because it's a great product. It works awesomely well and is sturdy. It is a bit expensive getting it directly for edsyn because of the shipping, but if you can get a buddy to buy one too and combine your shipping that might help.
You could also order a bunch of wick from Edsyn.

After using lead free solder and a horribly cheap iron in Norway, I can't even express how awesome it is using Kester 44 solder and the WLC100 from Weller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:01:13
Yes, and I'm not trying to catch you on your words, but WFD uses WLC100 in his ergo-Clear mod video, and a lot of people refer to that video for information, myself included.  WLC100 was listed in the recommended irons section in the first post here as well.  It's worked very well for me so far, I've done a full board with it.  It did not cost $15, but I got it for $36, which wasn't too bad.

But people who come in here browsing and read very polar opinions might well be put off or confused, when some people recommend a product and others call it a piece of crap.  Fact is, a high percent of people visiting this thread for information will want a budget iron to do a board or two at most and then something very occasional.  In that case, getting the best of the best (always subjective) might not be the goal anyway.  There's the "good enough" range that corresponds to a certain dollar range.  WLC100 is certainly good enough for $36 or so that you can get it from Amazon as used-like-new (and sometimes brand new, price fluctuates).

In general, it's less helpful to throw around extreme opinions than to constructively compare and say that THIS iron could do more (or less) than THAT iron for this much dollar difference for THESE different uses.

P.S.: I'd like to recommend this solder: very cheap for good-size cuts and worked really well.  After a full keyboard, I'm not through with one of these by far... I got 2 extra rolls, which turned out to be entirely unnecessary.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's if you can't find Kester 44 cheaply.  Can get different diameters (thinner and thicker) but that's the one I got.  Their desoldering braid with flux is also useful and comes in cheap small sections.

(edited: thanks, fixed the link.  Had multiple pages opened)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:06:05
Yes, and I'm not trying to catch you on your words, but WFD uses WLC100 in his ergo-Clear mod video, and a lot of people refer to that video for information, myself included.  WLC100 was listed in the recommended irons section in the first post here as well.  It's worked very well for me so far, I've done a full board with it.  It did not cost $15, but I got it for $36, which wasn't too bad.

But people who come in here browsing and read very polar opinions might well be put off or confused, when some people recommend a product and others call it a piece of crap.  Fact is, a high percent of people visiting this thread for information will want a budget iron to do a board or two at most and then something very occasional.  In that case, getting the best of the best (always subjective) might not be the goal anyway.  There's the "good enough" range that corresponds to a certain dollar range.  WLC100 is certainly good enough for $36 or so that you can get it from Amazon as used-like-new (and sometimes brand new, price fluctuates).

In general, it's less helpful to throw around extreme opinions than to constructively compare and say that THIS iron could do more (or less) than THAT iron for this much dollar difference for THESE different uses.

P.S.: I'd like to recommend this solder: very cheap for good-size cuts and worked really well.  After a full keyboard, I'm not through with one of these by far... I got 2 extra rolls, which turned out to be entirely unnecessary.
www.cnn.com/2013/07/17/tech/paypal-error/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

That's if you can't find Kester 44 cheaply.  Can get different diameters (thinner and thicker) but that's the one I got.  Their desoldering braid with flux is also useful and comes in cheap small sections.

Uh... that link is not what you think it is.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:06:46
I also want to want to hype the Edsyn Soldapullt (solder sucker) because it's a great product. It works awesomely well and is sturdy. It is a bit expensive getting it directly for edsyn because of the shipping, but if you can get a buddy to buy one too and combine your shipping that might help.
You could also order a bunch of wick from Edsyn.

I ordered straight from Edsyn, and shipping wasn't too horrible. i did call in about thte $25 order minimum and that helped the cost i think, but i got an extra tip and the soldapullt shipped to NJ for a total of $29

I love the thing though. It's so satisfying and fun to pump every single time....while being a bit tiring too  :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:10:30
But people who come in here browsing and read very polar opinions might well be put off or confused, when some people recommend a product and others call it a piece of crap.  Fact is, a high percent of people visiting this thread for information will want a budget iron to do a board or two at most and then something very occasional.  In that case, getting the best of the best (always subjective) might not be the goal anyway.  There's the "good enough" range that corresponds to a certain dollar range.  WLC100 is certainly good enough for $36 or so that you can get it from Amazon as used-like-new (and sometimes brand new, price fluctuates).
Yeah but the Yihua is cheaper and, according to what others have said, is better too. So because of those two things the Yihua might be a better purchase for newbies looking to get a new iron.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the weller. I'm sure it is, as you've said, good enough, but if you can get a better iron for cheaper.. Why not?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:17:28
But people who come in here browsing and read very polar opinions might well be put off or confused, when some people recommend a product and others call it a piece of crap.  Fact is, a high percent of people visiting this thread for information will want a budget iron to do a board or two at most and then something very occasional.  In that case, getting the best of the best (always subjective) might not be the goal anyway.  There's the "good enough" range that corresponds to a certain dollar range.  WLC100 is certainly good enough for $36 or so that you can get it from Amazon as used-like-new (and sometimes brand new, price fluctuates).
Yeah but the Yihua is cheaper and, according to what others have said, is better too. So because of those two things the Yihua might be a better purchase for newbies looking to get a new iron.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the weller. I'm sure it is, as you've said, good enough, but if you can get a better iron for cheaper.. Why not?

So get the Yihua?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:19:44
So get the Yihua?
This seems to be what everyone has been saying. I haven't used mine as I don't have solder yet, but this thing does not have the feel of a budget iron, and I think it's well worth the $15+shipping.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 17 July 2013, 12:20:34
The Weller station I used and loved was the Weller WES51D. That being said, the Hakko 936 I've been using has been amazing.

I've also been having trouble with the desoldering bulb and wick so I guess it's time to try my nemesis...the Soldapult. The bulb tips aren't fine enough to desolder some things like LEDs. I'm mad because I was defending the bulb so hard and it's let me down multiples times now. :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 17 July 2013, 14:00:44
The Weller station I used and loved was the Weller WES51D. That being said, the Hakko 936 I've been using has been amazing.

I've also been having trouble with the desoldering bulb and wick so I guess it's time to try my nemesis...the Soldapult. The bulb tips aren't fine enough to desolder some things like LEDs. I'm mad because I was defending the bulb so hard and it's let me down multiples times now. :(

You want to know how you make moves with this, son? Hakko 808. BAM!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 17 July 2013, 14:23:41
The Weller station I used and loved was the Weller WES51D. That being said, the Hakko 936 I've been using has been amazing.

I've also been having trouble with the desoldering bulb and wick so I guess it's time to try my nemesis...the Soldapult. The bulb tips aren't fine enough to desolder some things like LEDs. I'm mad because I was defending the bulb so hard and it's let me down multiples times now. :(

You want to know how you make moves with this, son? Hakko 808. BAM!

It was expensive and I don't use it often, but GD, I love my fx-808
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 17 July 2013, 22:40:59
If you want some Kester 44, it's hard to beat this roll of 0.020" solder for ~$21 shipped (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111120618298).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Wed, 17 July 2013, 22:55:52
If you want some Kester 44, it's hard to beat this roll of 0.020" solder for ~$21 shipped (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111120618298).

What about this Kester 44 for $16 shipped?  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-44-rosin-core-solder/231017972833?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D9150890075728499624%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231004163506%26=)  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Wed, 17 July 2013, 23:14:51
The Weller station I used and loved was the Weller WES51D. That being said, the Hakko 936 I've been using has been amazing.

I've also been having trouble with the desoldering bulb and wick so I guess it's time to try my nemesis...the Soldapult. The bulb tips aren't fine enough to desolder some things like LEDs. I'm mad because I was defending the bulb so hard and it's let me down multiples times now. :(

You want to know how you make moves with this, son? Hakko 808. BAM!

It was expensive and I don't use it often, but GD, I love my fx-808
I would love an fx-808. I just HATE desoldering. I hope I never have to do it again (but I will)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Thu, 18 July 2013, 09:07:23
Didn't see anyone mention this product, but I thought it would be worth adding to the OP for magnification.

SE MH1047L Illuminated Multipower LED Binohead Magnifier (http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?sr=1-1&s=hi&keywords=magnifying+headset&qid=1374152646&ie=UTF8) is a magnifier headset. It's inexpensive and works well. We use it here at the office and for $7 it's pretty hard to beat. It's cheaply made, but it works.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 18 July 2013, 09:09:39
i did in fact mention it earlier, but it can't be given enough kudos. it's awesome. for 7 bucks it's completely unbeatable.

also, interesting fact i learned about kester solders from poking around some datasheets: kester solder actually has a shelf life. 2-3 years for thin rosin cores. for serious. so get the newest run of 44 that you can find.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 18 July 2013, 09:13:38
If you want some Kester 44, it's hard to beat this roll of 0.020" solder for ~$21 shipped (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111120618298).

What about this Kester 44 for $16 shipped?  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-44-rosin-core-solder/231017972833?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D9150890075728499624%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231004163506%26=)  ;D

Got one thanks!  The guy relists more after you buy them.  I asked about condition, and he says it's good, he's had no complaints from his buyers about it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Thu, 18 July 2013, 10:05:47
If you want some Kester 44, it's hard to beat this roll of 0.020" solder for ~$21 shipped (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111120618298).

What about this Kester 44 for $16 shipped?  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-44-rosin-core-solder/231017972833?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D9150890075728499624%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231004163506%26=)  ;D

Got one thanks!  The guy relists more after you buy them.  I asked about condition, and he says it's good, he's had no complaints from his buyers about it.

What makes this stuff so good?  I mean I'm looking to get it since it's a damn pound of solder for only $16.  But whats so good about Kester 44?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 18 July 2013, 10:09:13
The Weller station I used and loved was the Weller WES51D. That being said, the Hakko 936 I've been using has been amazing.

I've also been having trouble with the desoldering bulb and wick so I guess it's time to try my nemesis...the Soldapult. The bulb tips aren't fine enough to desolder some things like LEDs. I'm mad because I was defending the bulb so hard and it's let me down multiples times now. :(

You want to know how you make moves with this, son? Hakko 808. BAM!

That's how it's going to be JD?? Damnit! Now I have to get one to live up to my motto :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 18 July 2013, 10:58:24
If you want some Kester 44, it's hard to beat this roll of 0.020" solder for ~$21 shipped (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111120618298).
What about this Kester 44 for $16 shipped?  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-44-rosin-core-solder/231017972833?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D9150890075728499624%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231004163506%26=)  ;D

Got one thanks!  The guy relists more after you buy them.  I asked about condition, and he says it's good, he's had no complaints from his buyers about it.

What makes this stuff so good?  I mean I'm looking to get it since it's a damn pound of solder for only $16.  But whats so good about Kester 44?

 the kester 44 rosin flux is quite nice. flows well and is _really_ corrosive, especially compared to today's no-clean crap. that means the solder flows a bit easier and at lower temperature than most rosin solders. that said, it's not magic, and if you need more corrosion you can always just apply more rosin flux :P

personally, i have a squeeze bottle of mg chemicals generic rosin flux and an old roll of alpha metals 0.026" rosin core solder (the 1lb roll i was referring to earlier) and it works fine, even at ridic low temps (like 200C, 10C over the melting point of the metal itself :P)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Thu, 18 July 2013, 13:31:56
If you want some Kester 44, it's hard to beat this roll of 0.020" solder for ~$21 shipped (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111120618298).

What about this Kester 44 for $16 shipped?  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-44-rosin-core-solder/231017972833?_trksid=p2047675.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D13%26meid%3D9150890075728499624%26pid%3D100012%26prg%3D1014%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D231004163506%26=)  ;D

Got one thanks!  The guy relists more after you buy them.  I asked about condition, and he says it's good, he's had no complaints from his buyers about it.

Yeah I got one from him a couple weeks ago, ships flat rate.
Price is too good to pass up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:43:19
I bought a roll of some MBO (METAUX BLANCS OUVRES) made solder.
SN62 PB AG2

The thing flows well, and I can see why eutectic solder is preferred.
But the choice of flux used is awful. It seems that the flux spits when the iron touches it, and it form very hard droplets on the PCB. They had to be scrubbed off using IPA.

Anyone knows whether there is a better solution to clean the flux, or whether the flux is fault?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 19 July 2013, 07:55:36
i did in fact mention it earlier, but it can't be given enough kudos. it's awesome. for 7 bucks it's completely unbeatable.

also, interesting fact i learned about kester solders from poking around some datasheets: kester solder actually has a shelf life. 2-3 years for thin rosin cores. for serious. so get the newest run of 44 that you can find.

I asked one of the ebay sellers about how old their solder was and if they ever had issues with it going bad and the impression I got was the 'vintage' new old stock is from circa 2002 but is sealed and has never been opened. The guy says he has never had a problem with any of it going bad. Of course YMMV.

But if it does half a shelf life of 2-3 years once opened then wouldn't most people's go bad? I mean for us regular guys a 1lb of solder should last a while.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 19 July 2013, 09:09:08
mg chems sells two varieties of flux cleaner, one that's plastics safe and one that's not. i've found that either solution and a nylon brush will clean ANYTHING

kester solder's shelf life can't be lengthened by sealing. it's from date of manufacture, period. sealing oxygen out will help with the oxidization problem that WFD mentioned, but i believe what's actually happening is that the kester fluxes are so active that they slowly eat through the solder. that's bad, and there's nothing you can really do about it except for not buy old solder.

that said, it's 16 bucks, and if it turns out to be bad, you can always buy a new roll of alpha, mg chem, newer kester, whatever. rosin flux solder is still alive and well in the states and being manufactured for hobbyist use, just not kester 44. however, there was never anything magic about kester 44, it was just really nice flux. those other companies i mentioned make nice flux too, and frankly, once you have your technique down, you can even solder good joints with *shudder* no clean and lead free.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 19 July 2013, 09:58:55
I've had very nice experience with MG Chemicals' rosin-core solder.  Did my first Filco with it, and it's great, flows really well.  Going to try Kester 44 when it arrives.  So storing in a tightly closed zip lock bag is a good idea then, I see.
----
I couldn't quite master using Soldapult over small solder-filled pools in which Filco PCBs suspend switch pins.  So I ended up using the Radioshack iron again.  Went much easier second time around, but the new RadioShack tip ended up decaying 2/3rds of the way through desoldering the PCB... so I barely finished.  Basically you're safe buying 2 of those tips per keyboard project :(  Pretty sad.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 19 July 2013, 11:52:23
mg chems sells two varieties of flux cleaner, one that's plastics safe and one that's not. i've found that either solution and a nylon brush will clean ANYTHING

kester solder's shelf life can't be lengthened by sealing. it's from date of manufacture, period. sealing oxygen out will help with the oxidization problem that WFD mentioned, but i believe what's actually happening is that the kester fluxes are so active that they slowly eat through the solder. that's bad, and there's nothing you can really do about it except for not buy old solder.

that said, it's 16 bucks, and if it turns out to be bad, you can always buy a new roll of alpha, mg chem, newer kester, whatever. rosin flux solder is still alive and well in the states and being manufactured for hobbyist use, just not kester 44. however, there was never anything magic about kester 44, it was just really nice flux. those other companies i mentioned make nice flux too, and frankly, once you have your technique down, you can even solder good joints with *shudder* no clean and lead free.

So the idea of a 2-3 year shelf life only applies to the kester 44? OR all solder?

Is it a better idea to buy solder in small amounts then? I don't see myself using much at all.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Fri, 19 July 2013, 12:23:12
mg chems sells two varieties of flux cleaner, one that's plastics safe and one that's not. i've found that either solution and a nylon brush will clean ANYTHING

kester solder's shelf life can't be lengthened by sealing. it's from date of manufacture, period. sealing oxygen out will help with the oxidization problem that WFD mentioned, but i believe what's actually happening is that the kester fluxes are so active that they slowly eat through the solder. that's bad, and there's nothing you can really do about it except for not buy old solder.

that said, it's 16 bucks, and if it turns out to be bad, you can always buy a new roll of alpha, mg chem, newer kester, whatever. rosin flux solder is still alive and well in the states and being manufactured for hobbyist use, just not kester 44. however, there was never anything magic about kester 44, it was just really nice flux. those other companies i mentioned make nice flux too, and frankly, once you have your technique down, you can even solder good joints with *shudder* no clean and lead free.

So the idea of a 2-3 year shelf life only applies to the kester 44? OR all solder?

Is it a better idea to buy solder in small amounts then? I don't see myself using much at all.

it's all solder and especially solder with flux in them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 19 July 2013, 13:41:51
mg chems sells two varieties of flux cleaner, one that's plastics safe and one that's not. i've found that either solution and a nylon brush will clean ANYTHING

kester solder's shelf life can't be lengthened by sealing. it's from date of manufacture, period. sealing oxygen out will help with the oxidization problem that WFD mentioned, but i believe what's actually happening is that the kester fluxes are so active that they slowly eat through the solder. that's bad, and there's nothing you can really do about it except for not buy old solder.

that said, it's 16 bucks, and if it turns out to be bad, you can always buy a new roll of alpha, mg chem, newer kester, whatever. rosin flux solder is still alive and well in the states and being manufactured for hobbyist use, just not kester 44. however, there was never anything magic about kester 44, it was just really nice flux. those other companies i mentioned make nice flux too, and frankly, once you have your technique down, you can even solder good joints with *shudder* no clean and lead free.

Why are you saying was, did I miss the production stop?  Or just referring to it being non-US made
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 19 July 2013, 18:33:22
Anyone used this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-30W-Soldering-Irons-SOLDER-SUCKER-DESOLDERING-PUMP-tips-/141013644464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d51174b0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Fri, 19 July 2013, 21:26:30
Anyone used this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-30W-Soldering-Irons-SOLDER-SUCKER-DESOLDERING-PUMP-tips-/141013644464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d51174b0
Looks dangerous lol.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 20 July 2013, 02:41:46
Anyone used this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-30W-Soldering-Irons-SOLDER-SUCKER-DESOLDERING-PUMP-tips-/141013644464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d51174b0
Looks dangerous lol.

just from my quick look it appears to be only 220VAC not 120 for US use
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kayliss on Sat, 20 July 2013, 03:51:22
Does anyone here use a Aoyue all in one? I'd love to hear from someone who does. :eek:

I'm looking for a 2nd iron, I already have a Hakko 888 and i'd rather not get anything worse than that, I also have a cheap hot air station which has been used alot more than I was expecting, I assume it will go up in smoke sooner rather than later.  A Hakko 888D is around $200 USD here, I can spend an extra $150 and get something like this http://tinyurl.com/knj7632 (sra solder).
I'd rather avoid all in ones but i'm on a limited budget. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 20 July 2013, 04:27:34
Anyone used this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-30W-Soldering-Irons-SOLDER-SUCKER-DESOLDERING-PUMP-tips-/141013644464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d51174b0
Looks dangerous lol.

just from my quick look it appears to be only 220VAC not 120 for US use

I'm in India.

Anywho, the query was had anyone used something like that?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 20 July 2013, 09:00:44
mg chems sells two varieties of flux cleaner, one that's plastics safe and one that's not. i've found that either solution and a nylon brush will clean ANYTHING

kester solder's shelf life can't be lengthened by sealing. it's from date of manufacture, period. sealing oxygen out will help with the oxidization problem that WFD mentioned, but i believe what's actually happening is that the kester fluxes are so active that they slowly eat through the solder. that's bad, and there's nothing you can really do about it except for not buy old solder.

that said, it's 16 bucks, and if it turns out to be bad, you can always buy a new roll of alpha, mg chem, newer kester, whatever. rosin flux solder is still alive and well in the states and being manufactured for hobbyist use, just not kester 44. however, there was never anything magic about kester 44, it was just really nice flux. those other companies i mentioned make nice flux too, and frankly, once you have your technique down, you can even solder good joints with *shudder* no clean and lead free.

So the idea of a 2-3 year shelf life only applies to the kester 44? OR all solder?

Is it a better idea to buy solder in small amounts then? I don't see myself using much at all.

it's all solder and especially solder with flux in them.
all electronics solder has flux in it. the shelf life is due to the flux not the metal alloy. the metal alloy can oxidize, but an external source of flux can make short work of the oxidization on the solder as well as the oxidization on the joint.

the shelf life of the solder is afaik related to how corrosive the flux is. less corrosive flux like today's no-clean crap has a ridiculously long shelf life.

ps, a sealed bag going to do absolutely zilch to extend the life of your solder, sorry :(.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 20 July 2013, 09:11:41
also this hand vacuum pump with a heater at the end looks completely insane and awesome. you should definitely try it out mohit ;)

i suspect it will have a useful service life in the 1s of hours; the fatal flaw seems to be that the iron heats up the entire hand-pump device as well as the solder. also, if you imagine how it's internally constructed, the solder has to run through a huge amount of tube before it makes it to the chamber. all of that tube is space that is ready t be occupied by junk, either solder or plastic or whatever that will refuse to melt and clog the whole device.

the basic idea is solid though. a desoldering pump is just an iron with a tubular opening connected to a source of vacuum. the 808 is just a very cool self-contained vacuum pump attached to the back of a high quality high powered hakko iron. however, look through the documentation for that device and you'll see how tricky it is to get this right. there are lots of considerations for clogging, separation of cold solder from hot, etc. it is a device with many many service parts that need to be replaced regularly.

frankly, the best solution in your part of the world, mohit, is a cheap compressor connects to a clone of an external compressor-driven desoldering station. i believe aoyue makes a clone of the canonical hakko shop air station. that would be the one to get.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 20 July 2013, 09:44:58
Thanks mkawa.

The one that I linked can be found here for $3. Will get that and try it out.

Are you referring to the Aoyue 474? If yes, I have found a couple f dealers, but all have been above $100. Looking for something cheaper.

Picked up a 936 clone for $12. Working well. Got a 2.4mm chisel tip as well for $.150.

It is hard to find 63/37 solder here as well as brass wool tip cleaner, thus ordered these from ebay global.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 20 July 2013, 10:19:57
quite hard to tell which hakko units have internal pumps and which ones rely on external pumps

474 - unclear. there is a nozzle, but i don't know whether that nozzle is an air intake or source of vacuum (NOW CLEAR -- this has an internal pump)
475 - very clear. the nozzle is for connection to a vacuum source
484 - internal vacuum pump. not a bellows unit, just a very compact compressor. looks nice.
808 - workhouse integrated vacuum pump unit with pistol grip that we all know and love.

the modern hakko stations are all designated FM-XXXX

FM-204 - modern version of 474. has an internal pump.
FM-203/206 - superpowered versions of the 204. COMPLETELY non-obvious from all the poorly translated product pages, but i believe both stations require an external compressor.

i think aoyue has only cloned the 474 and possible the 475 at this point. from all reports, the clones are close enough in construction that you can use the far superior hakko filters and tubes in these units - just the electronics and pump (if applicable have been cloned), as well as the pencil.

you may think these are expensive at 100$, but the hakko price is 1000$, so think on that for a bit ;)

note that the FM series tends to have full rework capability. that is, it can switch between soldering, desoldering and hot air (suck, blow, just temperator regulation mode). that and the improved analog section indicated by the insane thermal accuracy and recovery of the 888d are basically what differentiate the new models from the old.

(by the way, for those looking at the aoyue 474, check out the 474a++, it seems to obselete the 474. the basic design is the same but it looks like the A++ achieves better parity with the hakko 474. eg, the aoyue 474 cheaps out on the vacuum pump by using a dual chamber unit vs the single large chamber unit in the 474, etc..)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 20 July 2013, 12:40:13
Thanks for the elaborate explanation mkawa!

Really helpful.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:21:55
Got this station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:39:44
Got this station.

Solid set up, yo.

That's our budget recommendation in the soldering thread.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:47:10
Got it for $12. I tried my hand at making some cables earlier with an iron without temperature control, I sucked. With this, I feel like a pro, got the job done in no time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:49:11
I actually read through all 24 pages last night and it seems that people didn't have too many problems picking up soldering, more of the desoldering that was the problem.  Makes me kinda confident in trying to pick it up and try to make my own 62g clears board.  Lubing looks a bit tedious though;  I'll have to look more into that later.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:59:37
Soldering is easy, desoldering is hard as solder tends to "stick" to the cables and other components, so you need to use something of higher affinity (Like copper braid) or a suction mechanism (Such as manual pump, bulb pump, electrical sucker).

Lubing doesn't look hard/require practice, more to do with time consuming.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Mon, 22 July 2013, 12:19:03
I actually read through all 24 pages last night and it seems that people didn't have too many problems picking up soldering, more of the desoldering that was the problem.  Makes me kinda confident in trying to pick it up and try to make my own 62g clears board.  Lubing looks a bit tedious though;  I'll have to look more into that later.

I found desoldering to be quite easy, the only trouble I had was when using the wick didn't work properly and I had to use a sucker, which ended up spewing bits solder everywhere.

Just repaired a pair of headphones that broke on me recently, one of the wires hadn't been properly soldered so I had to solder it back on. Went fairly smooth, the biggest problem was that I had to do it with the can pretty much assembled, so I had to open the can as much as I could and get the iron and solder in the crack. I did nick the plastic a bit, but it's barely noticeable so I'm not too fussed, specially since I'm going to replace them soon-ish anyway.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Mon, 22 July 2013, 19:01:20
I found desoldering to be quite easy, the only trouble I had was when using the wick didn't work properly and I had to use a sucker, which ended up spewing bits solder everywhere.

Just repaired a pair of headphones that broke on me recently, one of the wires hadn't been properly soldered so I had to solder it back on. Went fairly smooth, the biggest problem was that I had to do it with the can pretty much assembled, so I had to open the can as much as I could and get the iron and solder in the crack. I did nick the plastic a bit, but it's barely noticeable so I'm not too fussed, specially since I'm going to replace them soon-ish anyway.

Are you religiously clearing the pump?  If you don't and don't take it apart every now and then and wash it out, it can start to do that.  I desoldered my entire RK9000 without issues like that though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 23 July 2013, 11:07:35
ok now i'm super curious. someone buy one of these and report back!

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374592266&sr=8-1&keywords=aoyue+474a%2B%2B

looks like it's basically a hakko 474, with all the extra suction that implies. replace the tip, chamber and all the filters with the hakko parts. it should come in at about the same price as an 808 but have about 2-3x more suction
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 23 July 2013, 11:16:11
ok now i'm super curious. someone buy one of these and report back!

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374592266&sr=8-1&keywords=aoyue+474a%2B%2B

looks like it's basically a hakko 474, with all the extra suction that implies. replace the tip, chamber and all the filters with the hakko parts. it should come in at about the same price as an 808 but have about 2-3x more suction

If only I were in the US.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 23 July 2013, 14:13:24
ok now i'm super curious. someone buy one of these and report back!

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374592266&sr=8-1&keywords=aoyue+474a%2B%2B

looks like it's basically a hakko 474, with all the extra suction that implies. replace the tip, chamber and all the filters with the hakko parts. it should come in at about the same price as an 808 but have about 2-3x more suction

If I sell my 808, I might get it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: RabRhee on Tue, 23 July 2013, 14:49:07
ok now i'm super curious. someone buy one of these and report back!

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374592266&sr=8-1&keywords=aoyue+474a%2B%2B

looks like it's basically a hakko 474, with all the extra suction that implies. replace the tip, chamber and all the filters with the hakko parts. it should come in at about the same price as an 808 but have about 2-3x more suction

Looks like a bit lower power, and lower temp, than a real Hakko 474, 80w instead of 100w, 150-380 instead of 380-480 degrees C. Same with the Aoyue 936, its lower power, the number is an indication that the parts fit each other. Still, its probably a nice bit of kit for the price.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Tue, 23 July 2013, 15:45:19
This link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UDBGSQ/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=) has it for $99.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 23 July 2013, 15:54:23
This link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UDBGSQ/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=) has it for $99.

And $92 for shipping :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Tue, 23 July 2013, 16:12:26
This link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UDBGSQ/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=) has it for $99.

And $92 for shipping :eek:

Totally missed that!  :eek:

nevermind....
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 23 July 2013, 16:22:42
This link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UDBGSQ/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=) has it for $99.

And $92 for shipping :eek:

Totally missed that!  :eek:

nevermind....

Yeah...Amazon is screwy like that....you gotta watch it.

Out of my ignorance, I saw you posted you bought some stuff for your soldering station....what are the brushes for??
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Tue, 23 July 2013, 16:38:05
Out of my ignorance, I saw you posted you bought some stuff for your soldering station....what are the brushes for??

Lubing switches. I bought Sax True Flow Masters Finest Red Sable Brushes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042SZ0CE/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Neal on Tue, 23 July 2013, 17:11:30
Really helpfull post A+
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 23 July 2013, 20:53:25
Out of my ignorance, I saw you posted you bought some stuff for your soldering station....what are the brushes for??

Lubing switches. I bought Sax True Flow Masters Finest Red Sable Brushes (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042SZ0CE/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

That makes sense, I was trying to figure out what you were doing with brushes and solder. ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 24 July 2013, 02:27:02
Just ordered a yihua 936, some soldering wick, solder, head light/magnifier thing, safety glasses just incase, hakko tip cleaner(so i dont have to use sponge), some dupont lube, 62g and 65g springs (to see which I like), and mx clears.  Just need to pick up a 2nd board and possibly a radio shack desoldering iron?

Expect questions from me sometime in the near future!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Wed, 24 July 2013, 04:44:37
Goot pump desoldering also good? :D is $10
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 24 July 2013, 07:01:00
Goot pump desoldering also good? :D is $10

Huh?? More info please! ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Wed, 24 July 2013, 07:46:06
I have goot GS-108 and it works. This small size one is easy to load spring by one hand.
It is better than cheap one got from dx.com but I've never used other pumps like SOLDAPULLT and hakko SPPON.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 24 July 2013, 11:57:15
I couldn't get Soldapullt to work with Filco PCBs.  The solder goes very deep, through the holes in the PCB to the opposite side, and RadioShack iron and the like seem to be ideal.  Not sure how others use Soldapullt to desolder switches from Filcos, but mine wasn't getting enough of the solder out (I think it was cooling off quickly by the time I'd get the suction tip over the hole completely.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Wed, 24 July 2013, 12:33:05
I have used the radio shack desoldering pump for quite a bit now and I think I will get a 808.
the $180.00 USD to save my sanity will be worth it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 24 July 2013, 12:35:33
I couldn't get Soldapullt to work with Filco PCBs.  The solder goes very deep, through the holes in the PCB to the opposite side, and RadioShack iron and the like seem to be ideal.  Not sure how others use Soldapullt to desolder switches from Filcos, but mine wasn't getting enough of the solder out (I think it was cooling off quickly by the time I'd get the suction tip over the hole completely.

Are you sure that you're fully heating the joint? Also, the speed and distance at which you suck the solder matters. I have the tip of the pump on the PCB really close to the joint at which I'm desoldering. Once the joint is fully heated, I move the pump closer or even over the joint, forming a seal around it and then hit the button activating the pump.

I don't always get all of the solder, but it works quite well
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 24 July 2013, 12:50:48
I just bought one of those soldering pumps with built-in heating irons. Will test and report soon. No PCB to desolder from at the moment :/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Wed, 24 July 2013, 14:42:02
I couldn't get Soldapullt to work with Filco PCBs.  The solder goes very deep, through the holes in the PCB to the opposite side, and RadioShack iron and the like seem to be ideal.  Not sure how others use Soldapullt to desolder switches from Filcos, but mine wasn't getting enough of the solder out (I think it was cooling off quickly by the time I'd get the suction tip over the hole completely.

Are you sure that you're fully heating the joint? Also, the speed and distance at which you suck the solder matters. I have the tip of the pump on the PCB really close to the joint at which I'm desoldering. Once the joint is fully heated, I move the pump closer or even over the joint, forming a seal around it and then hit the button activating the pump.

I don't always get all of the solder, but it works quite well

I used my solderpult on my filco and it worked flawlessly. there was no solder remains in the holes and the plate with the switches just fell of the pcb.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 24 July 2013, 14:49:18
I think today im going to put all my whites into my poker...i want to be able to see if i will even like whites for my gh60...if i dont, then i need to grab like 130 mx blacks soon lol
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 24 July 2013, 14:52:15
I think today im going to put all my whites into my poker...i want to be able to see if i will even like whites for my gh60...if i dont, then i need to grab like 130 mx blacks soon lol


You might as well get some of those 'old' blacks from whiskytango they are dirt cheap!!

And if you don't like the whites I'd like to buy them off you  8)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 24 July 2013, 14:54:25
I think today im going to put all my whites into my poker...i want to be able to see if i will even like whites for my gh60...if i dont, then i need to grab like 130 mx blacks soon lol


You might as well get some of those 'old' blacks from whiskytango they are dirt cheap!!
might as well :))

i think he's swamped right now..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rayne on Wed, 24 July 2013, 17:28:46
i just got my hakko fx888d in the mail! now i get to try it out on my phantom build :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:06:35
D: my soldering iron wont get here until next thursday, so sad.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:21:37
Where's a good place to get new tips for a 936 and what's a decent tip for switch soldering? If the stock tip will do just fine then I'll stick with it as I haven't ordered my 936 yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:39:48
Where's a good place to get new tips for a 936 and what's a decent tip for switch soldering? If the stock tip will do just fine then I'll stick with it as I haven't ordered my 936 yet.

If you want to be really cheap, theres tips for a couple bucks on ebay but they come from china.  I just went with a legit d24 hakko tip from amazon for like $8 and free 2 day shipping.  I think I've read both good and bad about the stock tip but I figured better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:42:37
Where's a good place to get new tips for a 936 and what's a decent tip for switch soldering? If the stock tip will do just fine then I'll stick with it as I haven't ordered my 936 yet.

There was quite a bit of discussion a few pages back on tips, I would 'assume' they would be applicable, if they work with that iron.

Thanks for confirmation. I thought hakko tips would be compatible.. just wanted to check. What size of chisel tip would you recommend for keyboard soldering?

Here is some discussion from the other day on that topic!!

 
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.

I use the d24 (2,4 mm chisel) for most trough-hole stuff...
More contact area than the d16 (better heat transfer) but not too big (like the d32).


Just picked up some soldering gear for when my r3 eDox kit gets here, and I have minimal prior experience with soldering so I was wondering if there's a quick list of do's and don'ts when soldering that I should be aware of, besides the obvious.

Also, will a chisel tip work better for keyboard soldering than a round tip?

I also think you should watch some videos, visual learning really is the way to go here!
Anyway, if you are really looking for a quick simple writeup, here is what I do...

- For switch or LED soldering I use a 2,4mm chisel tip
- Also I use leaded rosin core solder with 1mm diameter
- Make sure components sit flush against the PCB and pins sit right
- Set the temperature of the station to 300-350 degree Celsius and wait for heatup
- Make sure your solder tip is clean, if not clean it (repeat that periodically in the process)
- Put the tip in between pad and pin and feed a small amount of solder in the gap between tip an pin for better heat transfer
- Feed solder from the other side into the gap between pin and pad (enough that you get a solid cone shape bonding) and remove tip
- The two steps above should be done fast and finished when the molten solder completely stops smoking (then the flux is used up)
- Inspect the solder spots... You want a shiny uninterrupted cone shape which contacts the whole pad, best use a magnifying glass for that
- If there seems to be something wrong with the spot, desolder -> clean -> redo, or apply some flux (you can get it seperately) and let the spot reflow by heating it up again
i don't know about the ebay tips because frankly i'd rather have a single tip that lasts 12 years than 12 tips that give me inconsistent heat transfer for one year each.

also because genuine tips are cheap.

i have one of the smaller needle points i never use, a d16, d32 (for big ****), and some other crap i never use. the d16 is pretty much going to be your go-to tip for almost everything except for joints that need a lot of power. the small tips like the d12 or the needle points are only really useful in situations where you need to be really careful about how much power you're putting into the joint. not that this doesn't include most SMD ICs, because you'll want enough surface area to be able to do a quick wipe downwards across the pins. a needle tip won't allow you to do that, but can be useful for really fine rework.

for wires or big components i break out the d32. the 888d has enough power to make quick work of those if you give it the surface area.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:45:17
Thought I'd share this while I'm here. 1lb spool of 63/37 Kester 44 only $21.80 and shipping isn't outrageous like the other site. http://www.all-spec.com/products/KW4410.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:50:28
Thought I'd share this while I'm here. 1lb spool of 63/37 Kester 44 only $21.80 and shipping isn't outrageous like the other site. http://www.all-spec.com/products/KW4410.html

Looks like they charge you a fee if your order is below $25 though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 26 July 2013, 12:59:19
Thought I'd share this while I'm here. 1lb spool of 63/37 Kester 44 only $21.80 and shipping isn't outrageous like the other site. http://www.all-spec.com/products/KW4410.html

Looks like they charge you a fee if your order is below $25 though.

Yeah, mine isn't because I'm also getting a soldapullt and a tip cleaner from there. With shipping it all comes out to 48.90 or so.

You could just add a tip or two to get it above the $25 mark as well.

EDIT: It appears the FX888D is on sale for 80 bucks right now on that site.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:04:33
2.4mm chisel tip is best for keyboard hobby.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:05:21
I'm seriously contemplating just getting the FX888, a 1lb spool of kester 44, and a soldapullt for $120 shipped from this place right now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:38:42
I'm seriously contemplating just getting the FX888, a 1lb spool of kester 44, and a soldapullt for $120 shipped from this place right now.

Probably can't go wrong with that setup. I don't know about that site, but those products are solid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:45:39
I'm seriously contemplating just getting the FX888, a 1lb spool of kester 44, and a soldapullt for $120 shipped from this place right now.

Probably can't go wrong with that setup. I don't know about that site, but those products are solid.

They seem to have good reviews on places like BBB and such. Granted I just got paid, I think it's time I get a legitimate setup.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:47:40
The desoldering iron I linked earlier, has been tested and is working beautifully, this is so much better than a braid, so much faster and so much cleaner.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:49:05
The desoldering iron I linked earlier, has been tested and is working beautifully, this is so much better than a braid, so much faster and so much cleaner.

Awesome. Glad it's working good for you. Although, with shipping, the cheapest I could find them in the US was like $20 on eBay. You can get a genuine Soldapullt direct from Edsyn for that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:52:44
The desoldering iron I linked earlier, has been tested and is working beautifully, this is so much better than a braid, so much faster and so much cleaner.

Awesome. Glad it's working good for you. Although, with shipping, the cheapest I could find them in the US was like $20 on eBay. You can get a genuine Soldapullt direct from Edsyn for that.

Soldapullt's tip isn't heated, unlike the one I linked and purchased, the advantage being, you don't have to worry about timing as such, melt and push the button. However I can't comment on suction power as I have never used a Soldapullt.

As far as application goes for me, it has worked quite well so far.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:55:20
The desoldering iron I linked earlier, has been tested and is working beautifully, this is so much better than a braid, so much faster and so much cleaner.

Awesome. Glad it's working good for you. Although, with shipping, the cheapest I could find them in the US was like $20 on eBay. You can get a genuine Soldapullt direct from Edsyn for that.

Soldapullt's tip isn't heated, unlike the one I linked and purchased, the advantage being, you don't have to worry about timing as such, melt and push the button. However I can't comment on suction power as I have never used a Soldapullt.

As far as application goes for me, it has worked quite well so far.

Oh, sorry. For some reason I thought you were talking about the Goot GS-108. Too many desoldering discussions going on at once, I guess. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 July 2013, 14:01:31
Oh, sorry. For some reason I thought you were talking about the Goot GS-108. Too many desoldering discussions going on at once, I guess. :)

This is the one I was talking about: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-220V-30W-Soldering-Irons-SOLDER-SUCKER-DESOLDERING-PUMP-tips-/141013644464?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d51174b0

Got one locally for around $4. Only the front metal part is heated, rest of it works pretty much like any other desoldering pump.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 26 July 2013, 14:16:38
The desoldering iron I linked earlier, has been tested and is working beautifully, this is so much better than a braid, so much faster and so much cleaner.
nice!! keep us updated on how it holds up over time. this is often the trick with things that create and attempt to hold vacuum ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 July 2013, 14:24:01
I did get some grease to lube it ever so often on when I use it. Also, after a long use, I just give the plunger a couple of swift hits without actually locking it in. This has resulted in the iron blowing out some hot solder which was on the inside of the tube as mkawa had earlier suggested.

But I wonder if this would wear down the rubber gaskets faster?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 26 July 2013, 15:36:12
no idea, but for 4 bucks, i don't think i'd care either ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 26 July 2013, 21:28:25
no idea, but for 4 bucks, i don't think i'd care either ;)

Hmmm :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Sat, 27 July 2013, 14:52:27
Ordered the FX888, a Soldapullt, and some Kester 44, should be in next week :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 29 July 2013, 20:28:18
Alright, maybe someone can help me with this issue I've just run into.  I have soldering experience, so I think I know what I'm doing, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'm soldering wires to very old and possibly oxidized connections.  This is a piece of equipment from the '60s. 

So what's happening is that firstly the piece of metal I'm soldering to is taking a really long time to heat up, which is expected because it's a rather large piece (not a small lead like you'd expect to see today).  That's fine.  But then once I heat it up I can't get solder to flow to it, or get wicked away from the iron onto it.  Is that due to oxidation?  I tried cleaning the metal with alcohol (all I've got for cleaning at the moment).  Any suggestions?  The wire gets nice and solder-covered, and I can stick it through and get it "stuck" through the metal piece, but it's certainly not physically connected to the metal in any sturdy way.  I need help!  :)

Thanks in advance for any help!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 29 July 2013, 20:44:34
Alright, maybe someone can help me with this issue I've just run into.  I have soldering experience, so I think I know what I'm doing, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'm soldering wires to very old and possibly oxidized connections.  This is a piece of equipment from the '60s. 

So what's happening is that firstly the piece of metal I'm soldering to is taking a really long time to heat up, which is expected because it's a rather large piece (not a small lead like you'd expect to see today).  That's fine.  But then once I heat it up I can't get solder to flow to it, or get wicked away from the iron onto it.  Is that due to oxidation?  I tried cleaning the metal with alcohol (all I've got for cleaning at the moment).  Any suggestions?  The wire gets nice and solder-covered, and I can stick it through and get it "stuck" through the metal piece, but it's certainly not physically connected to the metal in any sturdy way.  I need help!  :)

Thanks in advance for any help!
Try putting some flux on it with a flux pen or brush on type, that should make the solder stick and flow on it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 29 July 2013, 20:57:23
Alright, maybe someone can help me with this issue I've just run into.  I have soldering experience, so I think I know what I'm doing, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'm soldering wires to very old and possibly oxidized connections.  This is a piece of equipment from the '60s. 

So what's happening is that firstly the piece of metal I'm soldering to is taking a really long time to heat up, which is expected because it's a rather large piece (not a small lead like you'd expect to see today).  That's fine.  But then once I heat it up I can't get solder to flow to it, or get wicked away from the iron onto it.  Is that due to oxidation?  I tried cleaning the metal with alcohol (all I've got for cleaning at the moment).  Any suggestions?  The wire gets nice and solder-covered, and I can stick it through and get it "stuck" through the metal piece, but it's certainly not physically connected to the metal in any sturdy way.  I need help!  :)

Thanks in advance for any help!
sometimes flux just isn't enough and you need steel wool or a stainless steel brush. oxidization is a *****!

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Mon, 29 July 2013, 21:00:58
I'm soldering wires to very old and possibly oxidized connections.  This is a piece of equipment from the '60s. 

Solder won't bind to stuff that are heavily oxidized or corroded. If it's really bad, first try some physical abrasion, then use flux. RA flux works best, but must be cleaned off after soldering, otherwise it'll cause corrosion over time. The no-clean type works ok too.

Flux is magic :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 29 July 2013, 21:40:15
Solder won't bind to stuff that are heavily oxidized or corroded. If it's really bad, first try some physical abrasion, then use flux. RA flux works best, but must be cleaned off after soldering, otherwise it'll cause corrosion over time. The no-clean type works ok too.

Flux is magic :)

sometimes flux just isn't enough and you need steel wool or a stainless steel brush. oxidization is a *****!

Try putting some flux on it with a flux pen or brush on type, that should make the solder stick and flow on it.

Thanks for so many quick replies!!  This confirms my fear.  I really didn't want to clean so many contacts in that way...   :'(
Oh well.  Now I need to go buy some more flux!  (misplaced my old supply)

Once again, thanks a bunch!  Much appreciated.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 29 July 2013, 22:40:15
also keep in mind that there's more than one way to heat things. there is contact and there is LAMINAR FLOW OF VERY HOT FLUIDS. basically, take a huge effing hot air gun and heat those oxidated suckers up, then take something really abrasive and abrade the **** out of it while it's hot.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Mon, 29 July 2013, 23:34:23
also keep in mind that there's more than one way to heat things. there is contact and there is LAMINAR FLOW OF VERY HOT FLUIDS. basically, take a huge effing hot air gun and heat those oxidated suckers up, then take something really abrasive and abrade the **** out of it while it's hot.
Sand blaster?  ^-^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 29 July 2013, 23:42:16
keep in mind you need to leave the PCB and components intact...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 30 July 2013, 07:23:07
keep in mind you need to leave the PCB and components intact...

I'm not sure if that's directed at me, but if it is I won't have to worry - there is no PCB.  I'm just soldering to a bunch of contacts lined up in a row. 

A sand-blaster might actually work...   :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 30 July 2013, 10:44:21
DO IT AND TAKE PICS!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 30 July 2013, 10:50:20
DO IT AND TAKE PICS!!

Haha, if only I had a sand blaster...

In other news, I have some DeoxIT (link (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104746)) that is good for cleaning oxidation of contacts.  Unless you'd advise against trying that, I think I'll give that a go and see if it helps clean the contacts.

The reason I'm trying things other than the suggestions is because Radioshack (my only local supplier) seems to be incapable of carrying the flux pens in store - only online - and I want to get working on it tonight.  I will still check to see if they have any in-store by chance, but it seems unlikely.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 30 July 2013, 14:25:16
deoxit is great for cleaning oxidization at the micron level. go to the hardware store, get some steel wool or some 100 grit sandpaper and go to work
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 30 July 2013, 14:37:16
Thought I'd share this while I'm here. 1lb spool of 63/37 Kester 44 only $21.80 and shipping isn't outrageous like the other site. http://www.all-spec.com/products/KW4410.html

here is the .20 version also
http://www.all-spec.com/products/Soldering_and_Rework%7CSolder_and_Soldering_Chemicals%7CSOL-0C/KW4400.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Tue, 30 July 2013, 14:40:47
Thought I'd share this while I'm here. 1lb spool of 63/37 Kester 44 only $21.80 and shipping isn't outrageous like the other site. http://www.all-spec.com/products/KW4410.html

here is the .20 version also
http://www.all-spec.com/products/Soldering_and_Rework%7CSolder_and_Soldering_Chemicals%7CSOL-0C/KW4400.html

They are a legit site too, so I'm going to order through them from now on.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 30 July 2013, 20:23:31
i will be completely amazed if you manage to get through more than a single lb of solder in your lifetime.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 30 July 2013, 20:24:38
i will be completely amazed if you manage to get through more than a single lb of solder in your lifetime.

I want to buy a lb and melt the whole thing down in an oven into a giant solder ball.  Does that count as "using" it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 30 July 2013, 21:45:05
i will be completely amazed if you manage to get through more than a single lb of solder in your lifetime.

Hell, I use solder errday and I'm not sure I'll need much more than an LB.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:43:55
i will be completely amazed if you manage to get through more than a single lb of solder in your lifetime.

Hell, I use solder errday and I'm not sure I'll need much more than an LB.

I got some 0.031" I meant if I wanted to snag some 0.020" as well :) And I used almost a lb of solder alone when I wired my car with 1/0 for my audio setup. 1/0 ring terminals require a **** ton of solder... and a friggin propane torch to solder with haha.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:48:25
That's why I ordered 4oz of .020" instead of getting a pound. It was around the same price per oz as a 1 pound roll of it and since I knew I wasn't going to be soldering a ton, it just made more sense to do that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:52:24
That's why I ordered 4oz of .020" instead of getting a pound. It was around the same price per oz as a 1 pound roll of it and since I knew I wasn't going to be soldering a ton, it just made more sense to do that.

In retrospect I should've probably saved the money and went with that. No way I'm gonna use all of that. Plus I'll be away at school. Guess I'm bringing my iron with me :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 31 July 2013, 08:55:28
That's why I ordered 4oz of .020" instead of getting a pound. It was around the same price per oz as a 1 pound roll of it and since I knew I wasn't going to be soldering a ton, it just made more sense to do that.

In retrospect I should've probably saved the money and went with that. No way I'm gonna use all of that. Plus I'll be away at school. Guess I'm bringing my iron with me :D

You can always sell some here. I'm sure there are people who don't want a pound and you want to get rid of some......
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:06:14
That's why I ordered 4oz of .020" instead of getting a pound. It was around the same price per oz as a 1 pound roll of it and since I knew I wasn't going to be soldering a ton, it just made more sense to do that.

Where does one buy this small amount from?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:11:20
Found a solder similar to the Kester 44. There is much less of but at a similar price per ounce since I doubt anyone is really going to need 1lbs of solder for keyboards. And it's .020" thick so it should be thin enough in diameter for SMD work


http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=SMDSW.020_4ozvirtualkey63560000virtualkey910-SMDSW.0204OZ

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:17:51
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:27:51
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:30:54
I dunno, I'm the kind of guy that would rather just spend the extra 10-15 bucks so I don't ever have to order any more in the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:32:27
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ

That second link isn't a bad deal. If you want some good solder in a compact size I'd do it. I love those little tube packs for soldering. Though, ~$8 for 3/4 Oz is mad expensive. You can get a pound, which is almost 20x more for about 3x that price.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:42:54
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ

That second link isn't a bad deal. If you want some good solder in a compact size I'd do it. I love those little tube packs for soldering. Though, ~$8 for 3/4 Oz is mad expensive. You can get a pound, which is almost 20x more for about 3x that price.

Considering that you can get 4 oz for around $12 in my link, it is mad expensive
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:45:34
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ

That second link isn't a bad deal. If you want some good solder in a compact size I'd do it. I love those little tube packs for soldering. Though, ~$8 for 3/4 Oz is mad expensive. You can get a pound, which is almost 20x more for about 3x that price.

Considering that you can get 4 oz for around $12 in my link, it is mad expensive

Ignoring price what about the actual solder :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:46:09
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ

That second link isn't a bad deal. If you want some good solder in a compact size I'd do it. I love those little tube packs for soldering. Though, ~$8 for 3/4 Oz is mad expensive. You can get a pound, which is almost 20x more for about 3x that price.

Considering that you can get 4 oz for around $12 in my link, it is mad expensive

Ignoring price what about the actual solder :P

And then you can get 16oz for $22 in my link. This is just a vicious cycle. Soon someone will find a 10lb spool for $200.

As for Ray, the solder is Kester 44, it's the same as we've been posting so I presume it'll be just fine :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:48:32
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ

That second link isn't a bad deal. If you want some good solder in a compact size I'd do it. I love those little tube packs for soldering. Though, ~$8 for 3/4 Oz is mad expensive. You can get a pound, which is almost 20x more for about 3x that price.

Considering that you can get 4 oz for around $12 in my link, it is mad expensive

Ignoring price what about the actual solder :P

And then you can get 16oz for $22 in my link. This is just a vicious cycle. Soon someone will find a 10lb spool for $200.

As for Ray, the solder is Kester 44, it's the same as we've been posting so I presume it'll be just fine :)

ALL ABOARD THE QUOTE TRAIN!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 10:50:12
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ

That second link isn't a bad deal. If you want some good solder in a compact size I'd do it. I love those little tube packs for soldering. Though, ~$8 for 3/4 Oz is mad expensive. You can get a pound, which is almost 20x more for about 3x that price.

Considering that you can get 4 oz for around $12 in my link, it is mad expensive

Ignoring price what about the actual solder :P

And then you can get 16oz for $22 in my link. This is just a vicious cycle. Soon someone will find a 10lb spool for $200.

As for Ray, the solder is Kester 44, it's the same as we've been posting so I presume it'll be just fine :)

ALL ABOARD THE QUOTE TRAIN!!

Choo Choo!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 31 July 2013, 11:00:32
Get 1lb and be done for life.

I had no option here in India, as only one shop in 800 shops in our electronics market had 63/37 solder, that too non-Kester-44. Minimum amount was 1lb for $9
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Wed, 31 July 2013, 13:10:42
Get 1lb and be done for life.

I had no option here in India, as only one shop in 800 shops in our electronics market had 63/37 solder, that too non-Kester-44. Minimum amount was 1lb for $9
[/quote
With those pocket packs like M&G chemicals 0.6oz  63/37 .032  I was able to solder my Phantom and a couple of usb connectors. I would rather buy the small ones so its fresh, they are only a couple bucks a pack
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:23:49
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ
my god. i've actually used every single one of those (although not in those sizes). i've never liked 60/40, but it has its uses in certain applications. the basic idea is that they are all high quality solders. MG chem, alpha metals, chemtronics, and kester all make FANTASTIC products. i may hate no-clean for hobbyist use, but even their no clean is extremely good given the constraints (all of them). choose based on flux type, solder diameter, price, alloy and quantity. you will be hard pressed to find a quantifiable difference between any of those manufacturers' comparable products in hobbyist use.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:38:05
so I may have broken my soldering iron after a total of 5 minutes.  I took it out and wanted to just use the hakko tip I bought and apparently it didnt fit over the heating element?(not sure if thats what it is) and the white part cracked/broke.  Oh and it still doesnt fit with part of it cracked off since the cover part wont screw on afterwards.

I haven't tested it yet, but any idea how bad this is?  Wasn't sure if this meant it was unsafe to use or wont heat the tip properly now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:44:19
so I may have broken my soldering iron after a total of 5 minutes.  I took it out and wanted to just use the hakko tip I bought and apparently it didnt fit over the heating element?(not sure if thats what it is) and the white part cracked/broke.  Oh and it still doesnt fit with part of it cracked off since the cover part wont screw on afterwards.

I haven't tested it yet, but any idea how bad this is?  Wasn't sure if this meant it was unsafe to use or wont heat the tip properly now.

What kinda iron was it again? And that looks pretty serious bud. :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:45:56
so I may have broken my soldering iron after a total of 5 minutes.  I took it out and wanted to just use the hakko tip I bought and apparently it didnt fit over the heating element?(not sure if thats what it is) and the white part cracked/broke.  Oh and it still doesnt fit with part of it cracked off since the cover part wont screw on afterwards.

I haven't tested it yet, but any idea how bad this is?  Wasn't sure if this meant it was unsafe to use or wont heat the tip properly now.

What kinda iron was it again? And that looks pretty serious bud. :(
the yihau 936
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:51:13
I bet that HobbyKing would replace it for you under warranty if you contact them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:52:41
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK)

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ)
my god. i've actually used every single one of those (although not in those sizes). i've never liked 60/40, but it has its uses in certain applications. the basic idea is that they are all high quality solders. MG chem, alpha metals, chemtronics, and kester all make FANTASTIC products. i may hate no-clean for hobbyist use, but even their no clean is extremely good given the constraints (all of them). choose based on flux type, solder diameter, price, alloy and quantity. you will be hard pressed to find a quantifiable difference between any of those manufacturers' comparable products in hobbyist use.


So for a noob soldering on keyboards would any of those 4 listed be a 'better' choice?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:53:47
that solder has no-clean flux. what we like about kester 44 is the fact that it has a very active (ie, very corroside) RA rosin flux. chip quik might still make a good RA rosin core solder though. i'm pretty MG chem still does, and their rosin is top notch.

edit: note that the major difference between no-clean and rosin flux is that no-clean is _not_ very active. hence, you don't have to clean it off the board after you solder. this is quite if you're processing 1 MILLION PCBs per minute, but if you're soldering like one a week you want the rosin.

If I wanted to get solder in small amounts would any of the following be worthwhile? I know were beating a dead horse...but I'm trying to absorb all the knowledge slowly ;)


Kester 63/37 .031 Solder,Rosin Core #44, 20 ft, NOS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/111098191441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)


Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020" Dispense-Pak

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/261152828428?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

or perhaps these

 MG Chemicals 4880 Series, Sn63/Pb37 Rosin Core Leaded Solder, 0.032" Diameter, 0.6 oz Pocket Pack

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK)

 Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJNQ)
my god. i've actually used every single one of those (although not in those sizes). i've never liked 60/40, but it has its uses in certain applications. the basic idea is that they are all high quality solders. MG chem, alpha metals, chemtronics, and kester all make FANTASTIC products. i may hate no-clean for hobbyist use, but even their no clean is extremely good given the constraints (all of them). choose based on flux type, solder diameter, price, alloy and quantity. you will be hard pressed to find a quantifiable difference between any of those manufacturers' comparable products in hobbyist use.


So for a noob soldering on keyboards would any of those 4 listed be a 'better' choice?

Any of the 63/37's would be the same.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 31 July 2013, 14:54:40

Kester Pocket Pack Solder 60/40 0.031 0.50 oz. Tube


So for a noob soldering on keyboards would any of those 4 listed be a 'better' choice?
[/quote]

I use that. We used that at my internship.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:53:11
*sigh* I tested it and I think the crack ****ed with the sensor, so it looks like I'm ordering a soldering iron from amazon and wont get it till friday.  I have class all day tomorrow anyway :\ but still.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:56:17
*sigh* I tested it and I think the crack ****ed with the sensor, so it looks like I'm ordering a soldering iron from amazon and wont get it till friday.  I have class all day tomorrow anyway :\ but still.

Yeah, that ceramic part is fairly integral, too.  Gotta make sure your tips are the right ones for your device, bruh.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 16:00:16
*sigh* I tested it and I think the crack ****ed with the sensor, so it looks like I'm ordering a soldering iron from amazon and wont get it till friday.  I have class all day tomorrow anyway :\ but still.

Yeah, that ceramic part is fairly integral, too.  Gotta make sure your tips are the right ones for your device, bruh.

Eh, could have sworn I saw people saying the hakko tips work fine and this hakko tip was for the800 and 900 series.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 31 July 2013, 16:19:29
Tips for the 888 are different from tips for the 936. The ones for the Yihua should be like this: 900M-T-2.4D.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 16:22:29
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 says backwards compatible with 900m which google shows https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html
which lists the 936, but o well.  It's too late now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: RabRhee on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:07:01
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 says backwards compatible with 900m which google shows https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html
which lists the 936, but o well.  It's too late now.

Sucks about the element, I found a post that says the Hakko or Yihua 936 used the same tip, but its quite possible either it was erroneous or Yihua changed the design since then. :/ There are replacement elements around if that is what broke, but that may be chasing more stress rather than going for a new iron, especially if other things are different sizes / ratings between the two.

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Replacement-Heating-Element-Soldering/dp/B00CQMHNC8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1375311670&sr=1-1&keywords=936+heating+element
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:28:29
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 says backwards compatible with 900m which google shows https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html
which lists the 936, but o well.  It's too late now.

Sucks about the element, I found a post that says the Hakko or Yihua 936 used the same tip, but its quite possible either it was erroneous or Yihua changed the design since then. :/ There are replacement elements around if that is what broke, but that may be chasing more stress rather than going for a new iron, especially if other things are different sizes / ratings between the two.

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Replacement-Heating-Element-Soldering/dp/B00CQMHNC8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1375311670&sr=1-1&keywords=936+heating+element

Yeah I think I would still need to desolder the old element+solder a new one, not to mention wait 3-4 weeks for it to come in.  So I just bit the bullet and bought a new soldering iron so I can go ahead and do my soldering this weekend.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:33:14
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 says backwards compatible with 900m which google shows https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html
which lists the 936, but o well.  It's too late now.

Sucks about the element, I found a post that says the Hakko or Yihua 936 used the same tip, but its quite possible either it was erroneous or Yihua changed the design since then. :/ There are replacement elements around if that is what broke, but that may be chasing more stress rather than going for a new iron, especially if other things are different sizes / ratings between the two.

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Replacement-Heating-Element-Soldering/dp/B00CQMHNC8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1375311670&sr=1-1&keywords=936+heating+element

Yeah I think I would still need to desolder the old element+solder a new one, not to mention wait 3-4 weeks for it to come in.  So I just bit the bullet and bought a new soldering iron so I can go ahead and do my soldering this weekend.

I'm assuming you mean the plug in part and not the whole station, right?

If I'm remembering jdcarpe right, you should have been able to get a true hakko wand at that point, which means no question that hakko 900 tips fit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:41:09
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 says backwards compatible with 900m which google shows https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html
which lists the 936, but o well.  It's too late now.

Sucks about the element, I found a post that says the Hakko or Yihua 936 used the same tip, but its quite possible either it was erroneous or Yihua changed the design since then. :/ There are replacement elements around if that is what broke, but that may be chasing more stress rather than going for a new iron, especially if other things are different sizes / ratings between the two.

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Replacement-Heating-Element-Soldering/dp/B00CQMHNC8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1375311670&sr=1-1&keywords=936+heating+element

Yeah I think I would still need to desolder the old element+solder a new one, not to mention wait 3-4 weeks for it to come in.  So I just bit the bullet and bought a new soldering iron so I can go ahead and do my soldering this weekend.

I'm assuming you mean the plug in part and not the whole station, right?

If I'm remembering jdcarpe right, you should have been able to get a true hakko wand at that point, which means no question that hakko 900 tips fit.
I was just going to buy an aoyue station from amazon and get it here by friday. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:45:16
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004ORB8J2/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 says backwards compatible with 900m which google shows https://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/series_900m.html
which lists the 936, but o well.  It's too late now.

Sucks about the element, I found a post that says the Hakko or Yihua 936 used the same tip, but its quite possible either it was erroneous or Yihua changed the design since then. :/ There are replacement elements around if that is what broke, but that may be chasing more stress rather than going for a new iron, especially if other things are different sizes / ratings between the two.

http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Replacement-Heating-Element-Soldering/dp/B00CQMHNC8/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1375311670&sr=1-1&keywords=936+heating+element

Yeah I think I would still need to desolder the old element+solder a new one, not to mention wait 3-4 weeks for it to come in.  So I just bit the bullet and bought a new soldering iron so I can go ahead and do my soldering this weekend.

I'm assuming you mean the plug in part and not the whole station, right?

If I'm remembering jdcarpe right, you should have been able to get a true hakko wand at that point, which means no question that hakko 900 tips fit.
I was just going to buy an aoyue station from amazon and get it here by friday.

Oh wow, the wands are a lot more expensive than I realized XD  Carry on
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:49:22
Oh wow, the wands are a lot more expensive than I realized XD  Carry on
Yeah I think they were between $10-20 and would take until at the very least monday (ebay) to get here.  I'd rather just get a new station and have it here friday.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:50:22
Oh wow, the wands are a lot more expensive than I realized XD  Carry on
Yeah I think they were between $10-20 and would take until at the very least monday (ebay) to get here.  I'd rather just get a new station and have it here friday.

I was looking up the hakko ones through amazon, they're closer to $100
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Thu, 01 August 2013, 08:49:58
Oh wow, the wands are a lot more expensive than I realized XD  Carry on
Yeah I think they were between $10-20 and would take until at the very least monday (ebay) to get here.  I'd rather just get a new station and have it here friday.

I was looking up the hakko ones through amazon, they're closer to $100

Not to mention the Hakko pens have the opposite plug as the Yihua pens. Yihua uses a female connector on the pen, male on the station. Hakko uses male on the pen and female on the station. They aren't cross compatible :/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 01 August 2013, 08:59:29
Oh wow, the wands are a lot more expensive than I realized XD  Carry on
Yeah I think they were between $10-20 and would take until at the very least monday (ebay) to get here.  I'd rather just get a new station and have it here friday.

FWIW, the Aoyue soldering station I got from Amazon shipped with a spare element (but only one tip...).  I didn't know what it was, but from reading this thread, I'm glad I've got one on hand.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I30QBW/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I30QBW/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Thu, 01 August 2013, 17:31:05
Finally got the solder I ordered today. The place I ordered from had closed for 2 weeks due to summer, so it took some time. 60/40 Multicore solder, 0.46mm and 0.7mm. At first I thought maybe 0.7 was too large, but when I got it I'm glad I didn't order anything smaller. Also ordered some solder wick and a Hakko tip tinner. Finally ready for when the eDox kit gets here, whenever that is.
Incredibly hard to find proper solder here in Norway, most of what you'll find in the few hardware stores selling it is lead-free junk.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 01 August 2013, 17:40:01
New Hakko Tips came today :)
can't wait to use them
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 02 August 2013, 12:40:37
FX888, Soldapullt, and Kester 44 came in yesterday. This iron, omg. Coming from a Home Depot Weller 15w for small electronics work, and a Weller 110/140W Gun for car audio, this thing is outstanding. I was only able to use it for a few minutes late last night, so I took apart a broken LED flashlight and desoldered the 3 LEDs in less than a minute. I'm gonna have a fun time with this bad boy :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Fri, 02 August 2013, 15:40:23
FX888, Soldapullt, and Kester 44 came in yesterday. This iron, omg. Coming from a Home Depot Weller 15w for small electronics work, and a Weller 110/140W Gun for car audio, this thing is outstanding. I was only able to use it for a few minutes late last night, so I took apart a broken LED flashlight and desoldered the 3 LEDs in less than a minute. I'm gonna have a fun time with this bad boy :)

thats my gear son. **** yea. kester 44, Hakko fx888d, and Edsyn Deluxe Soldapullt are my jam. be sure to have a nice light and something to help hold your project.

our setups are premo, but i am still looking for a descent helping hand setup. the cheap one i bought on amazon sucks toe nails. one thing no one told me when i got into soldering is that you need 3-4 hands for everything you want to do outside of keyboards (which are really easy to work with).  also do yourself a favor and stay away from SMD work. that shiz sucks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 02 August 2013, 15:52:27
FX888, Soldapullt, and Kester 44 came in yesterday. This iron, omg. Coming from a Home Depot Weller 15w for small electronics work, and a Weller 110/140W Gun for car audio, this thing is outstanding. I was only able to use it for a few minutes late last night, so I took apart a broken LED flashlight and desoldered the 3 LEDs in less than a minute. I'm gonna have a fun time with this bad boy :)

thats my gear son. **** yea. kester 44, Hakko fx888d, and Edsyn Deluxe Soldapullt are my jam. be sure to have a nice light and something to help hold your project.

our setups are premo, but i am still looking for a descent helping hand setup. the cheap one i bought on amazon sucks toe nails. one thing no one told me when i got into soldering is that you need 3-4 hands for everything you want to do outside of keyboards (which are really easy to work with).  also do yourself a favor and stay away from SMD work. that shiz sucks.

Lol will do on the SMD work haha. I actually went with the FX888, non digital one, I prefer the direct setting of a dial, and it was only $80 :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Fri, 02 August 2013, 16:01:35
I regret not buying the FX-888D, but it's over $200 here, so a bit hard to justify. But if I should somehow find a buyer for my current iron(hah, as if), or it breaks, I'll probably get the FX-888D.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 02 August 2013, 16:05:01
I regret not buying the FX-888D, but it's over $200 here, so a bit hard to justify. But if I should somehow find a buyer for my current iron(hah, as if), or it breaks, I'll probably get the FX-888D.

Could you benefit from someone purchasing it here and mailing it to you?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Fri, 02 August 2013, 16:09:29
I regret not buying the FX-888D, but it's over $200 here, so a bit hard to justify. But if I should somehow find a buyer for my current iron(hah, as if), or it breaks, I'll probably get the FX-888D.

Could you benefit from someone purchasing it here and mailing it to you?

Slightly, but as always my issue with proxying is that if something goes wrong I'm pretty much screwed. And I'd still have to get rid of my current iron, which is pretty much impossible.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 02 August 2013, 16:10:58
I love how people are more than ready to help on GH.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 02 August 2013, 17:37:46
who was it that broke a heating element? replacement parts are easily available. however, you will have to buy genuine hakko (not a terrible thing). call up the hakko folks in your country and ask a replacement heating element for a hakko 936. while you're at it, pick up some tips that are the right size (hakko is pushing the T series tips now for the 888(d) series. these tips do NOT fit the older 936s.

sweet! you don't have to buy genuine hakko: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=936+heating+element&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A936+heating+element

of course, you will need to solder the new heating element onto the iron. this is surprisingly easy. twist the wire joints together by hand and put your iron together. MAKE SURE that you've run enough cable that the solder joints are not inside the solder pen (this will make more sense once you get everything apart). the soldering pencil will heat up with the hand twisted electrical connections. OK, you're ready! now solder the joints and shrink your heatshrink or wrap your joints with good quality electrical tape (nowadays this stuff is fiberglass and not rubber by the way).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 02 August 2013, 17:46:07
vun: when it comes down to it, a well soldered joint is a well soldered joint. alaricjls built probably hundreds of keyboards with the weller wlc-100, which is a station that i hate with a passion that could ignite a thousand suns. however, his technique is good and hence his joints are good. to my knowledge, he's never had a single failure in the field.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Fri, 02 August 2013, 17:51:32
who was it that broke a heating element? replacement parts are easily available. however, you will have to buy genuine hakko (not a terrible thing). call up the hakko folks in your country and ask a replacement heating element for a hakko 936. while you're at it, pick up some tips that are the right size (hakko is pushing the T series tips now for the 888(d) series. these tips do NOT fit the older 936s.

sweet! you don't have to buy genuine hakko: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=936+heating+element&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A936+heating+element

of course, you will need to solder the new heating element onto the iron. this is surprisingly easy. twist the wire joints together by hand and put your iron together. MAKE SURE that you've run enough cable that the solder joints are not inside the solder pen (this will make more sense once you get everything apart). the soldering pencil will heat up with the hand twisted electrical connections. OK, you're ready! now solder the joints and shrink your heatshrink or wrap your joints with good quality electrical tape (nowadays this stuff is fiberglass and not rubber by the way).

Lol i appreciate the help.  It was me but i bought an aoyue 936 that came in today.  It actually came with a spare heating element.  I didn't think i would be able to use a new heating element without another soldering iron anyway(to solder it together).  Also I think it would have taken too long for it to get to me.

The tip I bought didn't work for this one either, it was close but not quite.  So far I tried soldering/desoldering on an old phone and it didn't seem too bad so I just went right to work on my QFR.  So far I have done the entire far right side(13 keys) on it and have tested to make sure they work.  The only problem I seem to have so far is that I am finding that I usually have to add new solder to each point before desoldering with my iron+soldapullt.  I'm really liking the Aoyue so far, it seems a lot nicer built and it even has this spool thing for my solder. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 02 August 2013, 17:55:26
adding more solder to a joint in order to get suction with a soldapullt is normal and actually kind of an advanced technique ;) good job!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Fri, 02 August 2013, 18:21:35
vun: when it comes down to it, a well soldered joint is a well soldered joint. alaricjls built probably hundreds of keyboards with the weller wlc-100, which is a station that i hate with a passion that could ignite a thousand suns. however, his technique is good and hence his joints are good. to my knowledge, he's never had a single failure in the field.
Oh, it's not that; I know the station is good as I've got a friend who has one who's done loads of soldering with it, LEDs, controllers, that sorta stuff. I just think the Hakko looks smoother and it would make me feel far more confident in my equipment at least. And it'd be easier to get more tips should I want that, afaik there are only two different tips available for mine, so if I'd want a larger wedge for easier desoldering of large joints/components I'm SOL.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Sat, 03 August 2013, 05:21:10
Currently lowpoly wiring my custom board, kill me. On a lighter note the soldering station I picked up off eBay is pretty awesome for a $40 job. It's a rebadge of the Sparkfun station if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 03 August 2013, 10:45:55
Currently lowpoly wiring my custom board, kill me. On a lighter note the soldering station I picked up off eBay is pretty awesome for a $40 job. It's a rebadge of the Sparkfun station if anyone is interested.

Nice!  How's it going?  Seems like you're not enjoying it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bueller on Sat, 03 August 2013, 10:50:37
Currently lowpoly wiring my custom board, kill me. On a lighter note the soldering station I picked up off eBay is pretty awesome for a $40 job. It's a rebadge of the Sparkfun station if anyone is interested.

Nice!  How's it going?  Seems like you're not enjoying it?

I'm getting there, SLOWLY. I probably could have got it done a lot quicker but I wound up wrapping the diodes around their own length of wire and then heatshrunk in between each pin. Time consuming as hell but with both the columns and rows insulated looks a lot cleaner and will make shorts pretty much impossible. Got all the rows done and I've just started the columns, they're going a lot quicker though so I should have it ready to go sometime tomorrow!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sat, 03 August 2013, 10:53:58
Oh, wow, heatshrinking everything would definitely get a bit tedious.   :p  Sounds like it'll be really solid and sturdy and short-proof though!  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 03 August 2013, 11:27:11
I'm getting there, SLOWLY. I probably could have got it done a lot quicker but I wound up wrapping the diodes around their own length of wire and then heatshrunk in between each pin. Time consuming as hell but with both the columns and rows insulated looks a lot cleaner and will make shorts pretty much impossible. Got all the rows done and I've just started the columns, they're going a lot quicker though so I should have it ready to go sometime tomorrow!

Hot glue is just as effective.  It's uglier, but it will speed things up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Sat, 03 August 2013, 12:31:30
So I managed to finish my keyboard last night.  Desoldering wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting, and I found the soldapullt to be really effective/easy to use.  I had two connections that were a pain to do though.  One of them was the left alt which I knew was bad but the left windows key also had a joint that didn't want to grab the solder.  I ended up using part of a resistor's leads to get the blobs of solder to stay.  Overall pretty easy, just took a while.  I didn't even burn myself :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Narcix on Sat, 03 August 2013, 13:16:26
Can i use the EWIG rapid 20/40 w soldering iron for modding (LEDs)?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: germy on Sat, 03 August 2013, 22:12:19
Ok I'm new to the world of soldering and want to get into it properly.

If I get Aoyue 968A+, do I still need to get something like the Hakko FX888D because I read the former has a soldering iron? Is it comparable to the Hakko?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Sat, 03 August 2013, 22:13:39
nm....
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 04 August 2013, 18:07:07
I just want to warn everyone DO NOT USE A SOLDAPULLT COPY!!!!

I was using one made by 'draper' and it kept on jamming & failing to desolder the joint.. In the end it resulted in the pad getting broken. I now think that particular switch spot on the pcb may be permanently broken.

Also, it wasn't my technique. I've desoldered full boards before and I know how to do it. I also cleaned it out multiple times once it started jamming. It's also fairly new.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Sun, 04 August 2013, 18:58:59
The cheap desolder suckers always let me down at the worst time. The genuine Soldapult's are well made and last long. They seen to have real good suction, replacement tips and "O" rings are available so they can last a long time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 04 August 2013, 19:21:21
Well, even though my desoldering pump failed and ****ed up a pad I did take a few pictures of my solder joints while I was at it. What do you guys think?

(http://i.imgur.com/deWp8r5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 04 August 2013, 20:06:37
I just want to warn everyone DO NOT USE A SOLDAPULLT COPY!!!!

I was using one made by 'draper' and it kept on jamming & failing to desolder the joint.. In the end it resulted in the pad getting broken. I now think that particular switch spot on the pcb may be permanently broken.

Also, it wasn't my technique. I've desoldered full boards before and I know how to do it. I also cleaned it out multiple times once it started jamming. It's also fairly new.

Maybe this is why I messed up 3 pads and a trace on my Phantom during my desoldering operation.  Used a combination of a solder sucker and the desoldering iron both radio shack brand.

Any chance we can get some tip suggestions in the OP at least for sizes?  I am looking to replace the tip on my Weller and not sure what size I want to get.  I know I want to go a bit smaller but not sure how much.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 04 August 2013, 20:36:46
Maybe this is why I messed up 3 pads and a trace on my Phantom during my desoldering operation.  Used a combination of a solder sucker and the desoldering iron both radio shack brand.

Any chance we can get some tip suggestions in the OP at least for sizes?  I am looking to replace the tip on my Weller and not sure what size I want to get.  I know I want to go a bit smaller but not sure how much.
The problem with mine was that it simply wouldn't suck up all the solder. I had to repeat it again and again, until it reached a point where the pad was screwed up and it couldn't be fixed.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 04 August 2013, 20:45:50
Any chance we can get some tip suggestions in the OP at least for sizes?  I am looking to replace the tip on my Weller and not sure what size I want to get.  I know I want to go a bit smaller but not sure how much.

I use a 1.6mm chisel head tip. It's large enough to solder switch pins, but small enough to do fine SMD sizes. I use the tip exclusively for everything.



Well, even though my desoldering pump failed and ****ed up a pad I did take a few pictures of my solder joints while I was at it. What do you guys think?
(http://i.imgur.com/deWp8r5.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/deWp8r5.jpg)

One of the worst joints I've seen

jk. Are you fishing for compliments? That's a good joint in regards to how much solder applied, and even heat flow.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 04 August 2013, 20:56:20
Maybe this is why I messed up 3 pads and a trace on my Phantom during my desoldering operation.  Used a combination of a solder sucker and the desoldering iron both radio shack brand.

Any chance we can get some tip suggestions in the OP at least for sizes?  I am looking to replace the tip on my Weller and not sure what size I want to get.  I know I want to go a bit smaller but not sure how much.
The problem with mine was that it simply wouldn't suck up all the solder. I had to repeat it again and again, until it reached a point where the pad was screwed up and it couldn't be fixed.

Sounds familiar
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Sun, 04 August 2013, 21:33:23

Well, even though my desoldering pump failed and ****ed up a pad I did take a few pictures of my solder joints while I was at it. What do you guys think?
(http://i.imgur.com/deWp8r5.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/deWp8r5.jpg)

One of the worst joints I've seen

jk. Are you fishing for compliments? That's a good joint in regards to how much solder applied, and even heat flow.

I was looking at  this  (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/assembled-ergodox-t6255.html) and yeah.... kinda looks like too little solder. Is there any reason to solder the Edox like that? Sorry if this is a dumb question but you know a thing or two about soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 04 August 2013, 22:12:05
I was looking at  this  (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/assembled-ergodox-t6255.html) and yeah.... kinda looks like too little solder. Is there any reason to solder the Edox like that? Sorry if this is a dumb question but you know a thing or two about soldering.

That guy you linked used too much solder for the diodes, and not enough solder for the switch pins. There should be solder coming out of the hole. There is a higher risk of cold joints when you don't put enough solder (especially the very bottom right hole in the pic). Most of the time, you only really need an electrical connection, but specifically ergo-doxes need a fully complete solder joint because it's all the mechanical support that switch has. The acrylic plate does nothing to actually lock down the switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 04 August 2013, 22:15:09
One of the worst joints I've seen

jk. Are you fishing for compliments? That's a good joint in regards to how much solder applied, and even heat flow.
For once I wasn't fishing for compliments :)) Just wanted to get some feedback on my joints to see if they were ok. Thanks :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: actionbastard on Sun, 04 August 2013, 22:32:58
I was looking at  this  (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/assembled-ergodox-t6255.html) and yeah.... kinda looks like too little solder. Is there any reason to solder the Edox like that? Sorry if this is a dumb question but you know a thing or two about soldering.

That guy you linked used too much solder for the diodes, and not enough solder for the switch pins. There should be solder coming out of the hole. There is a higher risk of cold joints when you don't put enough solder (especially the very bottom right hole in the pic). Most of the time, you only really need an electrical connection, but specifically ergo-doxes need a fully complete solder joint because it's all the mechanical support that switch has. The acrylic plate does nothing to actually lock down the switch.

I noticed the switches for sure, the diodes didn't catch my eye though. What should the correct amount of solder look like on a SMD diode?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sun, 04 August 2013, 22:38:15
Very tiny amounts. They should bulge out. Although, that's not too terrible as long as there is a connection. It's easier to control the amount of solder if you use solder wire sizes 0.15" or 0.20". Anything else will be too thick and you'll most likely add too much.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: germy on Mon, 05 August 2013, 02:59:22
Is stuff that sounds too good to be true usually not true?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/220V-HAKKO-FX-951-Soldering-Station-Hakko-Iron-Hakko-Soldering/547462230.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/220V-HAKKO-FX-951-Soldering-Station-Hakko-Iron-Hakko-Soldering/547462230.html)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 05 August 2013, 03:00:56
That is a bulk price of 5 units or more plus shipping from overseas if I read that site correctly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: germy on Mon, 05 August 2013, 03:11:53
It's listed for $262ish on Amazon. How much does that station cost you guys locally in the US from a Fry's or something?

Anyways, I finally got a hold of a seller online. Its OEM ):
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 05 August 2013, 03:28:25
That is a bulk price of 5 units or more plus shipping from overseas if I read that site correctly.

No, the 5 unit price is a price break, it looks to be that price listed, but the shipping charge is equal to the unit price.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: germy on Mon, 05 August 2013, 06:46:30
Yup it is referring to just one unit. Anybody can chime in on the price of the soldering station at brick and mortar stores in the US? Thinking of asking someone to buy one to ship it over and wanted to get a gauge of the price difference between that and the online prices.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Mon, 05 August 2013, 07:51:42
Goat desolder also good? :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 09 August 2013, 15:55:17
So, I'm about to buy an OG soldapullt, but they have a $25 minimum. I figure picking up some wick while I'm at it couldn't hurt.. Is edsyn wick any good, if so which of their wicks would you guys recommend?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 09 August 2013, 15:59:19
So, I'm about to buy an OG soldapullt, but they have a $25 minimum. I figure picking up some wick while I'm at it couldn't hurt.. Is edsyn wick any good, if so which of their wicks would you guys recommend?

I think if you call they wave the $25 minimum.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 09 August 2013, 16:00:03
So, I'm about to buy an OG soldapullt, but they have a $25 minimum. I figure picking up some wick while I'm at it couldn't hurt.. Is edsyn wick any good, if so which of their wicks would you guys recommend?

I think if you call they wave the $25 minimum.
Oh.. that's cool. Anyway, I might as well pick up some wick anyway, especially if edsyn make good stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 09 August 2013, 16:00:28
So, I'm about to buy an OG soldapullt, but they have a $25 minimum. I figure picking up some wick while I'm at it couldn't hurt.. Is edsyn wick any good, if so which of their wicks would you guys recommend?

I think if you call they wave the $25 minimum.

That's nice of them. I never knew that!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 09 August 2013, 16:03:13
So, I'm about to buy an OG soldapullt, but they have a $25 minimum. I figure picking up some wick while I'm at it couldn't hurt.. Is edsyn wick any good, if so which of their wicks would you guys recommend?

I think if you call they wave the $25 minimum.

That's nice of them. I never knew that!

Well I'm sure its YMMV...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Sat, 10 August 2013, 16:13:39
so today i swapped most of the clear switches from my poker, and put in mx whites i recieved from a GB. i think this is the 4th time i have taken apart my poker completely and put it back together, but this time i was putting in new switches. it's quickest i have done it so far too, at 1 hour and 45 minutes. the mx whites feel great, the first clicky switches i am ever trying too. they are really cool and nice and tactile. i also couldn't bare the OEM caps i was using on my poker, so i broke down and put on the GMK doubleshots i bought back in May (i had told myself i was saving them for my main gh60). they feel *amazing* and i think they are gonna stay on my poker. i can say that my joints are getting much better and i'm doing a better job overall, and it keeps on getting better everytime i sit down and play with my poker.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 10 August 2013, 16:40:34
so today i swapped most of the clear switches from my poker, and put in mx whites i recieved from a GB. i think this is the 4th time i have taken apart my poker completely and put it back together, but this time i was putting in new switches. it's quickest i have done it so far too, at 1 hour and 45 minutes. the mx whites feel great, the first clicky switches i am ever trying too. they are really cool and nice and tactile. i also couldn't bare the OEM caps i was using on my poker, so i broke down and put on the GMK doubleshots i bought back in May (i had told myself i was saving them for my main gh60). they feel *amazing* and i think they are gonna stay on my poker. i can say that my joints are getting much better and i'm doing a better job overall, and it keeps on getting better everytime i sit down and play with my poker.

I love my white switches a lot.  They're like what blues should be.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Sat, 10 August 2013, 16:55:57
they are around the same weight that i am used to and like, and the actual clickyness is really fun.

They're like what blues should be.

i've heard that from so many people that have tried both
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Mon, 12 August 2013, 02:50:57
So my friend's soldering iron which I borrowed and have been using until now... died today... All the lights come on but it won't get hot... Any ways on fixing this thing or is it time for a Yihua? :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 12 August 2013, 09:14:57
what kind of iron is it? is it a station or a stand-alone pencil? not getting hot with a pencil indicates heater failure. if it's a station it could either be the power supply or the heater. sometimes cheaper to replace the heater (on a high quality iron) than the entire iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 12 August 2013, 14:26:27
Any suggestions for heat setting on my Weller with a 1.6mm tip?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Mon, 12 August 2013, 14:28:43
Any suggestions for heat setting on my Weller with a 1.6mm tip?

If it's a WLC100, just go 3 - 3.5
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 12 August 2013, 14:29:04
What model Weller do you have? Can you adjust it to an actual temperature or do you have the Weller that has heat levels 1-5?

If you can set it to an actual temperature, I usually run my iron around 650 - 700 F.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Mon, 12 August 2013, 18:25:18
what kind of iron is it? is it a station or a stand-alone pencil? not getting hot with a pencil indicates heater failure. if it's a station it could either be the power supply or the heater. sometimes cheaper to replace the heater (on a high quality iron) than the entire iron.

Thanks for the response!

It's a Tekpower 936D, which is a station. It has a digital display for the temperature which comes on when I power it on but the pen just doesn't get hot.

Also, Do you know if the tips I have for this thing will fit on a Yihua 936?? I tried googling for about an hour but with no success :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 12 August 2013, 18:39:49
What model Weller do you have? Can you adjust it to an actual temperature or do you have the Weller that has heat levels 1-5?

If you can set it to an actual temperature, I usually run my iron around 650 - 700 F.
It is the WLC100 so just 1-5 settings.  With the wider factory tip I was using about 3.75 but I can give 3-3.5 a try.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 12 August 2013, 18:41:38
What model Weller do you have? Can you adjust it to an actual temperature or do you have the Weller that has heat levels 1-5?

If you can set it to an actual temperature, I usually run my iron around 650 - 700 F.
It is the WLC100 so just 1-5 settings.  With the wider factory tip I was using about 3.75 but I can give 3-3.5 a try.

i use 3 for boards, 2 for cables and 2.5 for smd.
works out pretty well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 12 August 2013, 21:04:31
have an IR thermometer? do your thing with the iron and aim for a tip temperature of 350C. 63/37 rosin core solders pretty much all process around 350

the problem with low settings on the wlc100 is that you have poor thermal recovery. you process a joint at 350, the tip drops below process temperature, and it takes a while to heat up again. the problem with high settings is that it will happily get the tip much hotter than 350C, at which point you will problems with burning your joints and splatter from the solder (especially thin solders). when using an iron like this, you need to develop kind of a zen feeling for how hot your tip is and adjust the power to the tip accordingly so that you get 350C steady state. i was never any good at it, so it didn't work out for me. shrug. ymmv
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 13 August 2013, 19:34:42
So today I tried to desolder MX switches with LEDs from a board and out  ~50 desolderings, all of the solder points still contained some solder.  I used a
http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17537-Desoldering-Pump-Anti-Static/dp/B003E48EQ6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376440377&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+sucker (http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17537-Desoldering-Pump-Anti-Static/dp/B003E48EQ6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376440377&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+sucker)
which I think doesn't have enough suction.  Any recommendations for something else?  How is the Soldapult compared to it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 13 August 2013, 23:04:56
So today I tried to desolder MX switches with LEDs from a board and out  ~50 desolderings, all of the solder points still contained some solder.  I used a
http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17537-Desoldering-Pump-Anti-Static/dp/B003E48EQ6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376440377&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+sucker (http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17537-Desoldering-Pump-Anti-Static/dp/B003E48EQ6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376440377&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+sucker)
which I think doesn't have enough suction.  Any recommendations for something else?  How is the Soldapult compared to it?

Once you've sucked out most the solder, you can just heat up your soldering iron/pen and heat up the remaining solder inside and wiggle/disconnect it. Worked for me. That or you can use resin/solder wick to remove the remaining. Also the desoldering iron from Radio Shack works better than you think :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Tue, 13 August 2013, 23:06:56
So today I tried to desolder MX switches with LEDs from a board and out  ~50 desolderings, all of the solder points still contained some solder.  I used a
http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17537-Desoldering-Pump-Anti-Static/dp/B003E48EQ6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376440377&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+sucker (http://www.amazon.com/Aven-17537-Desoldering-Pump-Anti-Static/dp/B003E48EQ6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1376440377&sr=8-4&keywords=solder+sucker)
which I think doesn't have enough suction.  Any recommendations for something else?  How is the Soldapult compared to it?

i can't express thoughts about the one you linked but the OG edsyn Soldapullt works wonders
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 13 August 2013, 23:09:44
In those cases, I would prop up the switch gently with a flat head screwdriver on the plate side with one hand and heat up still attached pins with the soldering iron with the other.  Eventually the switch will pop out, and if you are gentle and careful, it's an easy and safe process.  It was annoying, but I had to do that for a lot of switches between 2 Filco PCBs (those damn through-hole copper inserts and solder going all the way to the other side).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 13 August 2013, 23:11:26
In those cases, I would prop up the switch gently with a flat head screwdriver on the plate side with one hand and heat up still attached pins with the soldering iron with the other.  Eventually the switch will pop out, and if you are gentle and careful, it's an easy and safe process.  It was annoying, but I had to do that for a lot of switches between 2 Filco PCBs (those damn through-hole copper inserts and solder going all the way to the other side).

Oh gawd.. don't even remind me :( Almost had a blunder because of that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 14 August 2013, 01:18:30
In those cases, I would prop up the switch gently with a flat head screwdriver on the plate side with one hand and heat up still attached pins with the soldering iron with the other.  Eventually the switch will pop out, and if you are gentle and careful, it's an easy and safe process.  It was annoying, but I had to do that for a lot of switches between 2 Filco PCBs (those damn through-hole copper inserts and solder going all the way to the other side).

Been there, done that, the TVS had all the switch pins bent on the PCB, I'm guessing to lock them in?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Wed, 14 August 2013, 02:43:00
In those cases, I would prop up the switch gently with a flat head screwdriver on the plate side with one hand and heat up still attached pins with the soldering iron with the other.  Eventually the switch will pop out, and if you are gentle and careful, it's an easy and safe process.  It was annoying, but I had to do that for a lot of switches between 2 Filco PCBs (those damn through-hole copper inserts and solder going all the way to the other side).

They have LEDs attached, so it's not that simple :(

I'll try the RadioShack thing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Wed, 14 August 2013, 02:47:42
In those cases, I would prop up the switch gently with a flat head screwdriver on the plate side with one hand and heat up still attached pins with the soldering iron with the other.  Eventually the switch will pop out, and if you are gentle and careful, it's an easy and safe process.  It was annoying, but I had to do that for a lot of switches between 2 Filco PCBs (those damn through-hole copper inserts and solder going all the way to the other side).

They have LEDs attached, so it's not that simple :(

I'll try the RadioShack thing.

You could always just desolder the LED's first and then try heating up the pins with the soldering iron trick. It worked for me. I have never actually used a solder pump so I don't know how efficient it is with LED's but I used solder wick and flux to do it. The Radio Shack desoldering iron takes awhile to heat up but it gets the job done. If you need a demonstration, you should refer to WFD's youtube video because he pretty much did the same thing I did.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:00:09
I didn't really have any trouble using my soldapullt even on the led'ed switches.  But that was a QFR and apparently those are cake.  I just added new solder to each joint before desoldering.  Sounds like a pain but the few times I tried without it, I had trouble melting the old solder.  ==
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:07:53
I didn't really have any trouble using my soldapullt even on the led'ed switches.  But that was a QFR and apparently those are cake.  I just added new solder to each joint before desoldering.  Sounds like a pain but the few times I tried without it, I had trouble melting the old solder.  ==

Sounds about right. The QFR really is cake compared to Filco. Filco, you definitely have to add some solder to help it melt and suck up.

I like your avatar Xenderwind :D I've had multiple Asuka avatars in the past on this forum :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:23:54
I didn't really have any trouble using my soldapullt even on the led'ed switches.  But that was a QFR and apparently those are cake.  I just added new solder to each joint before desoldering.  Sounds like a pain but the few times I tried without it, I had trouble melting the old solder.  ==

Sounds about right. The QFR really is cake compared to Filco. Filco, you definitely have to add some solder to help it melt and suck up.

I like your avatar Xenderwind :D I've had multiple Asuka avatars in the past on this forum :D

:D  I usually notice who is posting by their avatars so I wasn't sure if I wanted to change mine, but I saw a lot of other people doing it recently so I didn't feel too bad.

But back on topic.  Couldn't you try removing the leds first and then the switches?  I don't know how other boards are but my led's were just through the holes in the top of the switch housing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:28:18
Xender I keep thinking you're Vesper now since your avatar is practically the same as his old one.

God damn it guys can you please pick an anime that isn't Evangelion, I think there's at least 10 Evangelion avatars on this forum already.. :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Xenderwind on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:38:11
Xender I keep thinking you're Vesper now since your avatar is practically the same as his old one.

God damn it guys can you please pick an anime that isn't Evangelion, I think there's at least 10 Evangelion avatars on this forum already.. :))

I hope you're happy.  I also thought about stealing your avatar for a couple hours.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:39:08
I didn't really have any trouble using my soldapullt even on the led'ed switches.  But that was a QFR and apparently those are cake.  I just added new solder to each joint before desoldering.  Sounds like a pain but the few times I tried without it, I had trouble melting the old solder.  ==

Sounds about right. The QFR really is cake compared to Filco. Filco, you definitely have to add some solder to help it melt and suck up.

I like your avatar Xenderwind :D I've had multiple Asuka avatars in the past on this forum :D

:D  I usually notice who is posting by their avatars so I wasn't sure if I wanted to change mine, but I saw a lot of other people doing it recently so I didn't feel too bad.

But back on topic.  Couldn't you try removing the leds first and then the switches?  I don't know how other boards are but my led's were just through the holes in the top of the switch housing.

Yeah, the LED's should just drop out if desoldered all the way through. Tis why I desolder LED's first every time.

Xender I keep thinking you're Vesper now since your avatar is practically the same as his old one.

God damn it guys can you please pick an anime that isn't Evangelion, I think there's at least 10 Evangelion avatars on this forum already.. :))

You called? :-*

Xender I keep thinking you're Vesper now since your avatar is practically the same as his old one.

God damn it guys can you please pick an anime that isn't Evangelion, I think there's at least 10 Evangelion avatars on this forum already.. :))

I hope you're happy.  I also thought about stealing your avatar for a couple hours.

:)) I don't mind you using any avatar I've used in the past :D More Asuka lovin'!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 14 August 2013, 03:43:48
I hope you're happy.
Very :))
You called? :-*
:))

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 15 August 2013, 18:26:55
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 15 August 2013, 20:13:34
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

For the board and what you're using, yes. 

Desoldering a poker and that desoldering tool made me hate humanity.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 15 August 2013, 20:42:43
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

For the board and what you're using, yes. 

Desoldering a poker and that desoldering tool made me hate humanity.

Are there any  better options before I go insane? 



 :blank:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 15 August 2013, 20:45:08
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

For the board and what you're using, yes. 

Desoldering a poker and that desoldering tool made me hate humanity.

Are there any  better options before I go insane? 



 :blank:

Theoretically solder wick or a soldapullt.  Definitely a hakko fx808 or similar vacuum desoldering tool.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 15 August 2013, 21:03:40
aoyue 474a++!!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 15 August 2013, 21:14:40
Do they have more suction?  I'm not sure what would be the best choice out of these options.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 16 August 2013, 02:25:28
the aoyue and 808 will definitely be competing for suction. the aoyue is cool because no one's purchased one yet and in theory is has a ton more space for vacuum pump and is easier to handle, with the station-pencil design. also it's parts-compatible with the very very good hakko 474, which was literally the step above the 808 in the hakko line for like 10 years
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 August 2013, 08:39:28
the aoyue and 808 will definitely be competing for suction. the aoyue is cool because no one's purchased one yet and in theory is has a ton more space for vacuum pump and is easier to handle, with the station-pencil design. also it's parts-compatible with the very very good hakko 474, which was literally the step above the 808 in the hakko line for like 10 years

Also, the Aoyue wins in another aspect, being that the suction pump isn't held in your hand, but is removed to the station base. Sometimes it feels slightly awkward holding that beast that is the 808, especially for long desoldering sessions.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 16 August 2013, 08:45:38
Don't tempt me!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 16 August 2013, 08:50:33
aoyue 474a++!!!

Do we have links to a great deal on this by any chance?  I didn't find anything posted previously in the thread so far, but maybe I missed it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 August 2013, 08:52:56
Don't tempt me!

Do it!



Also, if your new name is going to be MOZ, you have to change your avatar to something similar to this:

(http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/randball/files/2008/05/schur.jpg)
Michael Schur as character "Mose Schrute" from the American TV series, "The Office."



aoyue 474a++!!!

Do we have links to a great deal on this by any chance?  I didn't find anything posted previously in the thread so far, but maybe I missed it.

I found one on ebay for $130 plus shipping. Seems like a great deal to me. http://www.ebay.com/itm/121026164771
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Fri, 16 August 2013, 08:57:55
aoyue 474a++!!!

Do we have links to a great deal on this by any chance?  I didn't find anything posted previously in the thread so far, but maybe I missed it.

Looks like it's $99 at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Desoldering-Station/dp/B001UDBGSQ (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Desoldering-Station/dp/B001UDBGSQ)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:01:52
aoyue 474a++!!!

Do we have links to a great deal on this by any chance?  I didn't find anything posted previously in the thread so far, but maybe I missed it.

Looks like it's $99 at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Desoldering-Station/dp/B001UDBGSQ (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Desoldering-Station/dp/B001UDBGSQ)



Oh hot damn. I might pick one of these up at some point down the road!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:03:14
aoyue 474a++!!!

Do we have links to a great deal on this by any chance?  I didn't find anything posted previously in the thread so far, but maybe I missed it.

Looks like it's $99 at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Desoldering-Station/dp/B001UDBGSQ (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Desoldering-Station/dp/B001UDBGSQ)



yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:07:12
Don't tempt me!

Do it!



Also, if your new name is going to be MOZ, you have to change your avatar to something similar to this:

Show Image
(http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/randball/files/2008/05/schur.jpg)

Michael Schur as character "Mose Schrute" from the American TV series, "The Office."
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/michael_scott/The-Office-gifs-the-office-14948948-240-196.gif
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:18:23
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:36:38
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:39:15
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.

I know that 808 so tempting.....
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:46:41
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.

I know that 808 so tempting.....

Do it! You won't regret. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:47:51
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.

I know that 808 so tempting.....

Do it! You won't regret. :)

well I know 'someday' I'm going to end up desoldering a backlit board and then it would come in handy!

I've got all this stuff I'm 'going' to do 'someday'.....right now it all sits in boxes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:52:05
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.

I know that 808 so tempting.....

Do it! You won't regret. :)

well I know 'someday' I'm going to end up desoldering a backlit board and then it would come in handy!

I've got all this stuff I'm 'going' to do 'someday'.....right now it all sits in boxes.

You and me both, brother. You and me both.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:56:04
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.

Whaaaaa, how did I miss that?  I will check it out!  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 16 August 2013, 09:58:41
yeah ......about that....shipping on that one is $92

this one

http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC (http://www.amazon.com/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station/dp/B00ABJ4AEC)

comes out to ~$148 shipped

but both are sold by third parties

Hmmm...I will keep that one in mind for when I finally purchase...thanks!

Someone is selling an FX888D w/ Kester 44 and an FX808 in the classifieds, $115 and $140 respectively.

I know that 808 so tempting.....

Do it! You won't regret. :)

well I know 'someday' I'm going to end up desoldering a backlit board and then it would come in handy!

I've got all this stuff I'm 'going' to do 'someday'.....right now it all sits in boxes.

You and me both, brother. You and me both.

If there's one thing being in the Boyscouts for a few years taught me, it was "Be Prepared" And when you're prepared, always have the best possible thing to use for said occasion :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 16 August 2013, 10:09:06
If there's one thing being in the Boyscouts for a few years taught me, it was "Be Prepared" And when you're prepared, always have the best possible thing to use for said occasion :))

QFT!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 16 August 2013, 10:11:10
If there's one thing being in the Boyscouts for a few years taught me, it was "Be Prepared" And when you're prepared, always have the best possible thing to use for said occasion :))

QFT!

What is this QFT?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 16 August 2013, 10:11:48
If there's one thing being in the Boyscouts for a few years taught me, it was "Be Prepared" And when you're prepared, always have the best possible thing to use for said occasion :))

QFT!

What is this QFT?

Quoted For Truth. :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 16 August 2013, 10:12:54
If there's one thing being in the Boyscouts for a few years taught me, it was "Be Prepared" And when you're prepared, always have the best possible thing to use for said occasion :))

QFT!

What is this QFT?

Quoted For Truth. :D

I'm flattered haha. Thanks for clearing that up :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ApocalypseMaow on Fri, 16 August 2013, 13:16:03
Dudes! I just ordered a Aoyue 937+, so stoked.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Fri, 16 August 2013, 23:43:42
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

Is your iron hot enough to melt Pb-free solder?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Sat, 17 August 2013, 15:29:03
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

Is your iron hot enough to melt Pb-free solder?


Yes.

Also, I just bought a Hakko 808 kit from eBay.  I hope it works :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 17 August 2013, 20:14:09
I'm having a problem desoldering Cherry MX plate mount switches.  It seems that when they soldered the board (Poker 2), the solder went very high up on the pins.  I'm using the Radio Shack desoldering iron with bulb now and it can't seem to melt the solder high up on the pins.  Also, it takes quite a bit of force to push the desoldered switches out.  Is this normal?

Is your iron hot enough to melt Pb-free solder?


Yes.

Also, I just bought a Hakko 808 kit from eBay.  I hope it works :P

Good decision...
If it takes "quite a bit of force" to push the switches out that probably means some solder was left -> Risk of ripping a solder pad off -> B0rked PCB
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JonasDK on Sun, 18 August 2013, 15:33:12
I'm on the lookout for a cheap station, and i can't get my hands on the recommended ones. I did some digging and found some, but i don't know if they're any good. Do anyone know something about this (http://www.conradelektronik.dk/KOMPAKT-LODDESTATION-BASETECHZD-99---48-W.htm?websale7=conrad-dk&pi=588415&Ctx={ver%2F7%2Fver}{st%2F3ec%2Fst}{cmd%2F0%2Fcmd}{m%2Fwebsale%2Fm}{s%2Fconrad-dk%2Fs}{l%2F02-aa%2Fl}{sf%2F%3Cs1%3Eloddestation%3C%2Fs1%3E%2Fsf}{p1%2F57533aec61131da5cd241d7dccbf1c7d%2Fp1}{md5%2Fbc43e768e9fb095f9e003029b1535cc6%2Fmd5}) and this (http://www.conradelektronik.dk/BASETECH-KOMPAKT-LODDESTATIONJLT-13-230-V%2fAC-EFFEKT-40-W-TEMPERATUROMR%c5DE-150---420-%b0C.htm?websale7=conrad-dk&pi=588437&Ctx=%7Bver%2F7%2Fver%7D%7Bst%2F3ec%2Fst%7D%7Bcmd%2F0%2Fcmd%7D%7Bm%2Fwebsale%2Fm%7D%7Bs%2Fconrad-dk%2Fs%7D%7Bl%2F02-aa%2Fl%7D%7Bsf%2F%3Cs1%3Eloddestation%3C%2Fs1%3E%2Fsf%7D%7Bp1%2F57533aec61131da5cd241d7dccbf1c7d%2Fp1%7D%7Bmd5%2Fbc43e768e9fb095f9e003029b1535cc6%2Fmd5%7D) station?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Sun, 18 August 2013, 15:39:14
I'm on the lookout for a cheap station, and i can't get my hands on the recommended ones. I did some digging and found some, but i don't know if they're any good. Do anyone know something about this (http://www.conradelektronik.dk/KOMPAKT-LODDESTATION-BASETECHZD-99---48-W.htm?websale7=conrad-dk&pi=588415&Ctx={ver%2F7%2Fver}{st%2F3ec%2Fst}{cmd%2F0%2Fcmd}{m%2Fwebsale%2Fm}{s%2Fconrad-dk%2Fs}{l%2F02-aa%2Fl}{sf%2F%3Cs1%3Eloddestation%3C%2Fs1%3E%2Fsf}{p1%2F57533aec61131da5cd241d7dccbf1c7d%2Fp1}{md5%2Fbc43e768e9fb095f9e003029b1535cc6%2Fmd5}) and this (http://www.conradelektronik.dk/BASETECH-KOMPAKT-LODDESTATIONJLT-13-230-V%2fAC-EFFEKT-40-W-TEMPERATUROMR%c5DE-150---420-%b0C.htm?websale7=conrad-dk&pi=588437&Ctx=%7Bver%2F7%2Fver%7D%7Bst%2F3ec%2Fst%7D%7Bcmd%2F0%2Fcmd%7D%7Bm%2Fwebsale%2Fm%7D%7Bs%2Fconrad-dk%2Fs%7D%7Bl%2F02-aa%2Fl%7D%7Bsf%2F%3Cs1%3Eloddestation%3C%2Fs1%3E%2Fsf%7D%7Bp1%2F57533aec61131da5cd241d7dccbf1c7d%2Fp1%7D%7Bmd5%2Fbc43e768e9fb095f9e003029b1535cc6%2Fmd5%7D) station?

They look like WLC-100 clones, I'd recommend taking a look at this (http://www.biltema.dk/da/Vaerktoj/Svejsning-og-lodning/Loddevarktoj/Loddestation-19727/). It's the one I have, I haven't used it all that much but it's been brilliant so far, and I have a friend who does a bunch of small electronics soldering with his. Bit more pricey than the ones you linked, but worth it I'd say.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JonasDK on Sun, 18 August 2013, 15:58:19

They look like WLC-100 clones, I'd recommend taking a look at this (http://www.biltema.dk/da/Vaerktoj/Svejsning-og-lodning/Loddevarktoj/Loddestation-19727/). It's the one I have, I haven't used it all that much but it's been brilliant so far, and I have a friend who does a bunch of small electronics soldering with his. Bit more pricey than the ones you linked, but worth it I'd say.

It's about 5 times more expensive than the other ones  :eek:!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Mon, 19 August 2013, 01:17:39
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
(http://www.lowpoly.com/keyboard/m0110/m0110_060.jpg)
That owned lowpoly
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 19 August 2013, 01:24:11
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
Show Image
(http://www.lowpoly.com/keyboard/m0110/m0110_060.jpg)

That owned lowpoly

it is not for desoldering. it is for compressed air.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Mon, 19 August 2013, 02:11:12
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
Show Image
(http://www.lowpoly.com/keyboard/m0110/m0110_060.jpg)

That owned lowpoly


That's what I use to clean my clothes after work...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: rarar on Mon, 19 August 2013, 15:11:34
Gonna get into soldering soon :) just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 19 August 2013, 15:29:28
Gonna get into soldering soon :) just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly :)

You can do quality soldering with the cheap tools, it's just a bit harder and maybe time consuming to get it just right.  It might be beneficial to get some experience on the cheaper tools.

What I mean is, you've already got an iron, so you can "get into it" right now.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 19 August 2013, 15:30:41
And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment! :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 19 August 2013, 16:17:51
Gonna get into soldering soon :) just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly :)
Practice on some old electronic stuff (everybody's got some) that you wont worry about ruining. Watch some how to videos, WFD has some good ones. Good tools help but developing you skills is most important, and that takes practice.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Mon, 19 August 2013, 18:51:48
Gonna get into soldering soon :) just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly :)
Practice on some old electronic stuff (everybody's got some) that you wont worry about ruining. Watch some how to videos, WFD has some good ones. Good tools help but developing you skills is most important, and that takes practice.

I found the EEVBlog videos to be incredibly helpful for learning the basics of soldering, although his videos are aimed at aspiring engineers so just keep in mind that you can get away with cheaper soldering gear for basic soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Mon, 19 August 2013, 21:05:12
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
(http://www.atslab.com/images/calibrations/slideshow-img-on-class-pages/calibration-hand-tools.jpg)
 :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Mon, 19 August 2013, 21:27:42
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
Show Image
(http://www.atslab.com/images/calibrations/slideshow-img-on-class-pages/calibration-hand-tools.jpg)

 :))

it works, trust me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: rarar on Mon, 19 August 2013, 23:01:04
Gonna get into soldering soon :) just need to save for a while to be able to get the stuff I need to solder properly :)
Practice on some old electronic stuff (everybody's got some) that you wont worry about ruining. Watch some how to videos, WFD has some good ones. Good tools help but developing you skills is most important, and that takes practice.

I found the EEVBlog videos to be incredibly helpful for learning the basics of soldering, although his videos are aimed at aspiring engineers so just keep in mind that you can get away with cheaper soldering gear for basic soldering.
I've watched his part 1 and 2 on soldering, its quite helpful :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 20 August 2013, 01:14:40
And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment! :D

I know a bunch of labour guys working at my uncle's electronics factory and they all use $3 cheap irons, and they use it like pros, I can only imagine what they would do with proper equipment, wield it like a sword.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 20 August 2013, 01:26:10
And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment! :D

I know a bunch of labour guys working at my uncle's electronics factory and they all use $3 cheap irons, and they use it like pros, I can only imagine what they would do with proper equipment, wield it like a sword.

They'd break it. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 20 August 2013, 01:39:48
And if you learn how to solder well with a cheap iron, imagine how much easier it will be when you get proper equipment! :D

I know a bunch of labour guys working at my uncle's electronics factory and they all use $3 cheap irons, and they use it like pros, I can only imagine what they would do with proper equipment, wield it like a sword.

They'd break it. :)

Hahahahaha
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 20 August 2013, 06:13:41
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
Show Image
(http://www.atslab.com/images/calibrations/slideshow-img-on-class-pages/calibration-hand-tools.jpg)

 :))
:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
The Living Joke Thread it seems  ^-^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 20 August 2013, 06:15:55
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
Show Image
(http://www.atslab.com/images/calibrations/slideshow-img-on-class-pages/calibration-hand-tools.jpg)

 :))

That's what you use to pop the switches out of the plate. ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 20 August 2013, 18:12:40
what name of this tool, it seems for desoldering
Show Image
(http://www.atslab.com/images/calibrations/slideshow-img-on-class-pages/calibration-hand-tools.jpg)

 :))

That's what you use to pop the switches out of the plate. ;)

Looks a lot easier than using this to pop them out:
(https://okl.scene7.com/is/image/OKL/Product_AKA00115_Image_1?$product$)
 ^-^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Wed, 21 August 2013, 21:58:07
 How do you apply flux to PCB pad? With syringe, brush or pen? Post pic of your equipment and your experience!

I had used this brush with risk of spill out of bottle flux, but I'm happy with BON pen now :)
(http://i.imgur.com/VtHnxV9l.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 22 August 2013, 00:07:40
Got the Hakko 808 desoldering gun.  It made short work of everything.  Still had to press a bit to get the switches to pop out though, but nothing was too stubborn.  It did however lift a pad off the board :C , but at least it was a double sided board. 

Does anyone know how to fix the pad? 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 22 August 2013, 07:38:49
How do you apply flux to PCB pad? With syringe, brush or pen? Post pic of your equipment and your experience!

I had used this brush with risk of spill out of bottle flux, but I'm happy with BON pen now :)
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/VtHnxV9l.jpg)

i use a small luer lock squeeze bottle with a 27ga needle. even then, if i just heat up the needle a little with the iron, the flux will flow to the point where i just kind of direct the flow and it covers everything i point the needle at. this is with MG Chem rosin flux. I buy big bulk bottles of the stuff and then fill my applicator bottle with the needle. this is also for thru-hole components. i think a fine brush or just plain old solder paste would be better if i were doing smt

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Thu, 22 August 2013, 09:44:49
Does anyone know how to fix the pad?

I did the same thing on one of my Poker's, so I'm curious of how people have fixed this in the past as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Thu, 22 August 2013, 09:52:51
Got the Hakko 808 desoldering gun.  It made short work of everything.  Still had to press a bit to get the switches to pop out though, but nothing was too stubborn.  It did however lift a pad off the board :C , but at least it was a double sided board. 

Does anyone know how to fix the pad? 

If you lifted the pad, that means you either applied too much heat, pressure, left it on too long, or combinations of all 3. Pads/traces have some kind of glue or adhesive, every time you solder or desolder will weaken the adhesive. If it's already lifted and NOT double sided, then you'll have to bridge the connection with a circuit trace pen or with a small wire.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:29:00
and circuit trace pens are a HUGE PITA
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Thu, 22 August 2013, 15:42:38
i use a small luer lock squeeze bottle with a 27ga needle. even then, if i just heat up the needle a little with the iron, the flux will flow to the point where i just kind of direct the flow and it covers everything i point the needle at. this is with MG Chem rosin flux. I buy big bulk bottles of the stuff and then fill my applicator bottle with the needle. this is also for thru-hole components. i think a fine brush or just plain old solder paste would be better if i were doing smt

Squeeze bottle with needle sounds better to handle than syringe. I didn't see people using it around here yet. I'll try to find and get it later. Thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Thu, 22 August 2013, 18:33:22
Below is a closeup shot of the pad that I pulled off of my Poker. The keys that are affected are the  - [ and '

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/9570448155_77b9350598_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570448155/)
Pulled A Pad (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570448155/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

Looking at the bottom of the PCB (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570448837/) I see that there is a trace connecting them all together, but my best guess is that what I need to bridge is the pad between the "0" and the "-". At least that what it looks like if I look at an undamaged PCB.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/9570449899_84525f1f04_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570449899/)
What It Should Look Like (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570449899/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

Am I on the right track?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:18:48
Show Image
Below is a closeup shot of the pad that I pulled off of my Poker. The keys that are affected are the  - [ and '

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/9570448155_77b9350598_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570448155/)

Pulled A Pad (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570448155/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

Looking at the bottom of the PCB (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570448837/) I see that there is a trace connecting them all together, but my best guess is that what I need to bridge is the pad between the "0" and the "-". At least that what it looks like if I look at an undamaged PCB.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/9570449899_84525f1f04_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570449899/)
What It Should Look Like (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570449899/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr

Am I on the right track?

yes.
if you still doubt yourself you can plug the keyboard in and test it with a paperclip or something as a bridge.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:23:14
yes.
if you still doubt yourself you can plug the keyboard in and test it with a paperclip or something as a bridge.

Thanks gnubag.

So I'm guessing I need to solder a wire to the respective pin on each switch. Or at least to the pin on the missing pad and then I could solder the wire to the pad on the undamaged switch?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 22 August 2013, 19:51:52
yes.
if you still doubt yourself you can plug the keyboard in and test it with a paperclip or something as a bridge.

Thanks gnubag.

So I'm guessing I need to solder a wire to the respective pin on each switch. Or at least to the pin on the missing pad and then I could solder the wire to the pad on the undamaged switch?

Correct.

Did you pull up the trace? The Poker PCB is double sided, right? Shouldn't it be okay if the other side pad is still there?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 22 August 2013, 20:24:18
yah isn't that an unnecessary pad?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Thu, 22 August 2013, 20:42:50
yah isn't that an unnecessary pad?

You tell me.

Those three keys don't work and that's the only thing I've seen that could be causing it. Diodes check out, switches are good.  :-\
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 22 August 2013, 23:02:02
Haven't seen a Poker PCB up close, however if there are tracks joining on the side you lifted the pad, then it won't work.

As for those asking about flux, I use good old solder paste, applied using a toothbrush and once everything is done, I brush the pCB clean with some unleaded clean petrol.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Fri, 23 August 2013, 03:05:37
mashby,
From poker's matrix, - , 0, p, [, ; and ' should be connected each other and share same colum line. Check connectivity and find bad trace with multimeter.

I hope this helps you somewhat.

Code: [Select]
Poker Mod Resource
==================
2013/01/02

Key Matrix pins
---------------
These key events are observed with xev command on Xorg/Linux.
PCB says "Fn Keyboard Rev 1.2". Column pins are active low and Row pins are input with pull-up.

    R\C|7       8       9       10      15      16      23      24      25      26      27      28      36
    ---+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3  |z       x       c       v       m       ,       .       (P6)    Fn      (9)     (8)     (?)     RCtrl
    4  |(*1)    (*2)    (*3)    b       n       (X)     App     (P7)    (1)     (PgUp)  /       (RAlt)  (4)
    5  |`       (F1)    (F2)    5       6       =       (F8)    (P4)    (6)     (PgDn)  -       (?)     LCtrl
    6  |1       2       3       4       7       8       9       (Left)  (X)     (X)     0       (*4)    (F5)
    43 |q       w       e       r       u       i       o       (Right) (X)     (5)     p       (SclLk) (Pause)
    44 |Tab     (CapLk) (F3)    t       y       ]       (F7)    LShift  (3)     LWin    [       (?)     (7)
    45 |a       s       d       f       j       k       l       RShift  Rwin    (4)     ;       (?)     (6)
    46 |(Esc)   (,)     (F4)    g       h       (F6)    (X)     (Down)  (2)     (0)     '       LAlt    (5)
    ( ): not real keys
    (X): no key event
    (?): unclear(media key?)
    *1: Muhenkan
    *2: Henkan-Mode
    *3: Hiragana-katakana
    *4: ScreenShot event?


LED pins and resistors
----------------------
Esc:            13(active low), R15(1.5KOhm)
CapsLock:       17(active low), R8(1.5KOhm)
Spc, Arrows:    14(active low), R13(1.5KOhm) for 4 LEDs


DIP switche pins
----------------
Turning switch on makes line pull down to ground.
SW1:            47(input with pull-up)
SW2:            30(input with pull-up)
SW3:            1(input with pull-up)
SW4:            2(input with pull-up)

EDIT: fixed at matrix(4,27)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 23 August 2013, 06:55:25
yah isn't that an unnecessary pad?

You tell me.

Those three keys don't work and that's the only thing I've seen that could be causing it. Diodes check out, switches are good.  :-\
pic of back of board tehre?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Fri, 23 August 2013, 07:12:37
pic of back of board tehre?

I just got home and took a pic, this is backside of my Poker PCB.
It seems there is bad connection between 0 and - key on mashby's Poker. It should be patched with short wire there.
(http://i.imgur.com/DjOaoqKl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/DjOaoqK.jpg)

EDIT: I was confused and missed context of conversation. Ignore me.
SW99 pad was clearly damaged and lost conection between SW99(-) and SW113(0). I missed completely.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:01:21
pic of back of board tehre?

I linked to it in my earlier post, but here's a photo of the bottom of the PCB

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/9570449343_e60a439ff0_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570449343/)
Another Closeup (http://www.flickr.com/photos/compactkey/9570449343/) by cpkey (http://www.flickr.com/people/compactkey/), on Flickr


It seems there is bad connection between 0 and - key on mashby's Poker. It should be patched with short wire there.

EDIT: I was confused and missed context of conversation. Ignore me.
SW99 pad was clearly damaged and lost conection between SW99(-) and SW113(0). I missed completely.

Thanks hash, that was my guess, but it's good to hear it confirmed from others smarter than me. I'll play with it this weekend and see if a jumper does the trick.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 23 August 2013, 08:03:26
see that dark joint on the plus where you stripped the pad on the other side? that's a classic cold joint. it has microfractures in it that prevent it from conducting properly. reflow it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 23 August 2013, 16:20:23
He striped the pad on the -, and the problem is the joint between - and 0 has been destroyed, as the pad on the front of the PCB was connecting the - and the 0.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 23 August 2013, 21:42:30
yah i see it now. that's a completely ridiculous design. but ok whatever. i would actually dig into the top layer to expose some copper and then use either a gigantic glob of solder or some conductive epoxy to bridge between the pin/pad that still exists and the trace that should just be attached to it with a via.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: rarar on Fri, 23 August 2013, 22:17:02
BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying? :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 23 August 2013, 23:45:39
BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying? :)

Rarar: I will be in mpls is a week and I will have a 888D.  PM me if you're interested in trying it.  :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: rarar on Fri, 23 August 2013, 23:49:13
BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying? :)

Rarar: I will be in mpls is a week and I will have a 888D.  PM me if you're interested in trying it.  :D
OHBOYOHBOYOHBOY
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 24 August 2013, 05:43:54
yah i see it now. that's a completely ridiculous design. but ok whatever. i would actually dig into the top layer to expose some copper and then use either a gigantic glob of solder or some conductive epoxy to bridge between the pin/pad that still exists and the trace that should just be attached to it with a via.

Yeah, just expose some copper on that trace (Be very careful) and use a large blob of solder, or better would be to use a bridge. I made a small mistake with my ErgoDox TRRS connector and then used an LED leg to create a quickfix. I'll post picture later.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 24 August 2013, 08:51:13
conductive epoxy = ye olde jb weld btw
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 24 August 2013, 08:51:36
BTW, does anyone in the MN area have a hakko 888 I could borrow for a day or two so I could try it out before buying? :)

Rarar: I will be in mpls is a week and I will have a 888D.  PM me if you're interested in trying it.  :D
OHBOYOHBOYOHBOY

HOFF, MAN OF MYSTERY has your back bro

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Mon, 26 August 2013, 16:37:15
so.... i got a Edsyn Deluxe Soldapullt and it is great. i love it. this is the one i got:
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019V5HRA/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019V5HRA/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

but i am seriously damaging the plastic tip of the soldapullt when i desolder. it is melted. it still works great but i am thinking i want to get a metal tip for it rather than plastic.  anyone upgraded their edsyn before and want to enlighten me? which tip did you get and why?

also i am looking to get a smaller tip for my hakko 888 for LEDs. i find the stock tip to be perfect for almost everything but LEDs. what size do y'all recommend and links are always appreciated. especailly amazon ones.  :p

also i want to reiterate that kester 44 is the jam. it is just fantastic solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 27 August 2013, 05:09:11
Anyone know of a good source of eutectic solder in EU? I am running out and am unable to find any for a reasonable price. Most stores appear to have decreased or completely removed theirs election of solders with led. I don't have to comply to ROHS, just looking for some plain 63/37.

Edit: With EU, I just meant reasonably cheap to ship to Sweden. EU also means less hassle with customs fees.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 27 August 2013, 05:13:12
if someone sends you say a lb of NOS kester 44 from the US, are the rohs EU police going to put you under lead arrest? ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 27 August 2013, 05:19:56
I would have tried buying it from Ebay already if it weren't for the shipping fees which cost roughly the same as the item. That and the possibility that the customs fee is larger than normal. It is still about half the price of the only source I have found locally, EVEN WITH CROSS-POND SHIPPING AND 25% CUSTOMS FEE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. I find this unreasonable- All my hopes currently go to Germany as they usually keep their **** together.

Grrr, I should have bought bulk last time mumble muble /grudge
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Tue, 27 August 2013, 06:01:47
I would have tried buying it from Ebay already if it weren't for the shipping fees which cost roughly the same as the item. That and the possibility that the customs fee is larger than normal. It is still about half the price of the only source I have found locally, EVEN WITH CROSS-POND SHIPPING AND 25% CUSTOMS FEE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT. I find this unreasonable- All my hopes currently go to Germany as they usually keep their **** together.

Grrr, I should have bought bulk last time mumble muble /grudge

There are some sources in Norway that have 63/37, shipping to Sweden probably isn't a problem, although I don't really know.
So far I've seen 63/37 here (http://www.krepro.no/loddetraad-sn63pb37.html) and here (http://www.emagenturer.no/?PageID=666&ItemID=794).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 29 August 2013, 02:32:03
Holy crap you guys.  Hakko 808 desoldering gun has changed my life.  Seriously, this thing is absolutely amazing...desolder pads in literally 2 seconds, super clean and smooth.  Wow.  I'm so happy right now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 29 August 2013, 02:43:15
Holy crap you guys.  Hakko 808 desoldering gun has changed my life.  Seriously, this thing is absolutely amazing...desolder pads in literally 2 seconds, super clean and smooth.  Wow.  I'm so happy right now.

Same, though I ran out of things to desolder. :c
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 29 August 2013, 06:23:43
Holy crap you guys.  Hakko 808 desoldering gun has changed my life.  Seriously, this thing is absolutely amazing...desolder pads in literally 2 seconds, super clean and smooth.  Wow.  I'm so happy right now.

Same, though I ran out of things to desolder. :c

Offer desolder service to get back what ya paid for the Hakko...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 29 August 2013, 22:00:22
Or you can rent those out :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 30 August 2013, 02:08:58
Or you can rent those out :D

Rent out the 808?  I'd consider that...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 30 August 2013, 09:34:30
Yeah, the desoldering part is a major inconvenience when it comes to copper-reinforced through-holes and tiny LED hole sizes, so Im sure those fancy desoldering guns would be awesome.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Noko on Fri, 30 August 2013, 20:15:19
Does anyone know anything about the Yihua 937D? 
I was trying to get the 936 from Hobbyking but the shipping+customs fees to Canada would be at least 3 times more than it costs :/
So I found this for sale from Canada on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Digital-Soldering-Station-937D-with-Cel-Feh-Switch-6-Iron-Tip-More-SMD-50W-/121144589108?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item1c34c7bb34

Would this be a worthwhile purchase?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: argyakrivos on Fri, 06 September 2013, 09:50:28
Hey guys, I'm looking to buy a soldering gun / station for my phantom keyboard. I know that almost everyone suggests Weller WLC100, but it is not as easy to find in the UK.

I just found this one: DURATOOL 1296771 Soldering Station (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1737234) + some goodies.

What are your thoughts on this one? Is it a good alternative to Weller WLC100? They look quite similar to me in terms of specs, but since this is my first buy I thought I should ask your opinion.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 September 2013, 10:20:37
Hey guys, I'm looking to buy a soldering gun / station for my phantom keyboard. I know that almost everyone suggests Weller WLC100, but it is not as easy to find in the UK.

I just found this one: DURATOOL 1296771 Soldering Station (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1737234) + some goodies.

What are your thoughts on this one? Is it a good alternative to Weller WLC100? They look quite similar to me in terms of specs, but since this is my first buy I thought I should ask your opinion.


Not many people actually recommend the Weller WLC-100. The Weller WES(D)-51 is a nice tool, and for the people who already own a WLC-100 that is fine - I'm not knocking your selection, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone looking to purchase a new station.

I know after shipping and VAT, this will be more expensive, but I would recommend this Hakko FX-888D (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171115482359), which is about the same price.

Or you could look for a Yihua 936 from China, like this one (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300921032126).

Maybe you can find a used Hakko 936 somewhere near you? Also, Aoyue 936/937 are worth checking into.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: argyakrivos on Fri, 06 September 2013, 12:28:05
Hey guys, I'm looking to buy a soldering gun / station for my phantom keyboard. I know that almost everyone suggests Weller WLC100, but it is not as easy to find in the UK.

I just found this one: DURATOOL 1296771 Soldering Station (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1737234) + some goodies.

What are your thoughts on this one? Is it a good alternative to Weller WLC100? They look quite similar to me in terms of specs, but since this is my first buy I thought I should ask your opinion.


Not many people actually recommend the Weller WLC-100. The Weller WES(D)-51 is a nice tool, and for the people who already own a WLC-100 that is fine - I'm not knocking your selection, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone looking to purchase a new station.

I know after shipping and VAT, this will be more expensive, but I would recommend this Hakko FX-888D (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171115482359), which is about the same price.

Or you could look for a Yihua 936 from China, like this one (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300921032126).

Maybe you can find a used Hakko 936 somewhere near you? Also, Aoyue 936/937 are worth checking into.

To get Hakko here I will have to pay almost double the price. I couldn't find any Hakko in the UK (new or used) in a reasonable price.

I did find Aoyue 397+ (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231032924912) for about £47.5. Should I go for this? or the Yihua from China? It should be around the same price.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SeriouSSpotS on Sat, 07 September 2013, 15:04:53
Does the wattage of a soldering iron matter?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Sat, 07 September 2013, 15:06:38
Does the wattage of a soldering iron matter?

The higher the wattage, the better the iron recovers from heat loss.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SeriouSSpotS on Sat, 07 September 2013, 15:12:18
I see, thank you
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 07 September 2013, 17:07:33
Hakko FX888D and FX888, which one will be better? seems the button on the FX888D will break much easier than FX888
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 07 September 2013, 17:45:18
go with the D. the D is calibratable and has a more accurate temperature regulator. you will not be pushing the buttons enough for their construction to matter.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 07 September 2013, 17:53:39
go with the D. the D is calibratable and has a more accurate temperature regulator. you will not be pushing the buttons enough for their construction to matter.
thanks! I will go with the 888D.  :D and it is cheaper than the 888
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sat, 07 September 2013, 22:00:05
If you're looking for tips, Techspray makes a "Plato" line of tips compatible with the Hakko FX-888(D) that I've had great experience with.

http://www.techspray.com/controls/techspray.tds/tds.ashx?id=132 (http://www.techspray.com/controls/techspray.tds/tds.ashx?id=132) (links to a pdf)

They are available on Mouser in individual pieces.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:34:01
Do you guys like to use point tip or screwdriver tip more? I found that point tip is not really useful in soldering switches
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:48:53
I use chisel tip since it lets me get more contact area on what I'm soldering, though I'd imagine conical would allow me to solder very small things more easily.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:57:10
I use chisel tip since it lets me get more contact area on what I'm soldering, though I'd imagine conical would allow me to solder very small things more easily.
if it compare to screwdriver tip, which one heat up the object faster?(switch, diode, something like that)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:59:09
I use chisel tip since it lets me get more contact area on what I'm soldering, though I'd imagine conical would allow me to solder very small things more easily.
if it compare to screwdriver tip, which one heat up the object faster?(switch, diode, something like that)

The chisel tip..er, screwdriver tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sun, 08 September 2013, 00:59:48
Definitely the chisel (screwdriver). The conical tips are great in theory, but they become a problem for two reasons: 1: they need a large temperature offset due to their low mass; 2: When tinning them, or doing regular work, the solder tends to migrate up the cone, leaving none at the very tip. I haven't encountered anything yet that I couldn't do more easily with a chisel or a bevel. Bevels are useful for doing SMDs with a tight pitch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 08 September 2013, 03:27:07
Chisel tips make better contact with the solder pads on the PCB, which heats them up faster. Soldering small stuff is more about adding a small enough amount of solder than anything else. The solder flows where it is supposed to go anyway. Chisel tips also usually have a pretty pointy corner if you want something smaller. I am able to do most tasks with my 2mm chisel tip, but my most used one is a 1.2mm chisel tip. No matter how small the tip is it's always an improvement if it is chisel shaped rather than with a rounded conical shape.

Chisel tips are different though. They should have a sharp straight edge, and flat sides. Like this
[attachimg=1]
not like this
[attachimg=2]

You want to get into that corner as far as possible
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 07:13:32
chisel tips are the bread and butter of soldering. soldering is about heat transfer. heat transfer is about surface area. so in general you want a tip that gives you as much surface area as possible to put in contact with your joint without heating things up that you don't want to heat up, ie, that aren't your joint. the diagram above nails it. you want your tip to make contact with BOTH objects involved in the joint, heat them up above 190C (63/37's melt point) and then feed solder to both surfaces. the flux in the solder will lead the way for the solder to lightly coat the surface of the joint and then isometrically cool into a shiny little bead or coating.

there are two more tips i keep around for special usage: first, the wedge tip that is flat on one side and rounded on the other (basically like a half chisel). these are slightly better for smd wipe soldering than chisels. second, i keep a long pointy tip around when literally nothing else will fit into the space around the joint. but 99% of the tip i have either an 8mm, 16mm, 24mm, or 32mm hakko chisel on (the t18-dxx where xx is the width of the chisel surface).

i don't bother with a hot knife tip because when i need a hot knife i blast an x-acto knife with a butane torch and literally cut things with the hot knife that results.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 08 September 2013, 07:19:47
Staunch supported of the chisel tip here!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 08 September 2013, 07:24:36
Alright I'm thinking of getting a Hakko 888 soldering kit. What tips should I get with it? I'll buy everything from amazon btw.

I use the d24 (2,4 mm chisel) for most trough-hole stuff...
More contact area than the d16 (better heat transfer) but not too big (like the d32).

I also think you should watch some videos, visual learning really is the way to go here!
Anyway, if you are really looking for a quick simple writeup, here is what I do...

- For switch or LED soldering I use a 2,4mm chisel tip
- Also I use leaded rosin core solder with 1mm diameter
- Make sure components sit flush against the PCB and pins sit right
- Set the temperature of the station to 300-350 degree Celsius and wait for heatup
- Make sure your solder tip is clean, if not clean it (repeat that periodically in the process)
- Put the tip in between pad and pin and feed a small amount of solder in the gap between tip an pin for better heat transfer
- Feed solder from the other side into the gap between pin and pad (enough that you get a solid cone shape bonding) and remove tip
- The two steps above should be done fast and finished when the molten solder completely stops smoking (then the flux is used up)
- Inspect the solder spots... You want a shiny uninterrupted cone shape which contacts the whole pad, best use a magnifying glass for that
- If there seems to be something wrong with the spot, desolder -> clean -> redo, or apply some flux (you can get it seperately) and let the spot reflow by heating it up again
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 07:24:47
also it deserves mentioning again: BUY ONE OF THESE:

http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378643068&sr=8-1&keywords=magnifying+visor
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 07:26:01
yep, i only break out the d32 for MONSTER joints. like the 2x12ga wire point to point soldering i've been doing with my welder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 08 September 2013, 07:32:39
also it deserves mentioning again: BUY ONE OF THESE:

http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378643068&sr=8-1&keywords=magnifying+visor

Got one of these (with interchangeable lenses tho) but switches to something like this:

[attachimg=1]

Having the magnifying glass in front of the eyes was kinda irritating.
Like when quickly reaching over to a tool etc... o.O
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 08:01:01
it's not an either or situation at all. i have the headset and this unit:

http://www.di c k blick.com/products/heavy-duty-magnifier-lamp/?clickTracking=true

with 3x magnification. one of the reasons is that the light on the headset is crap. the 30W CFL in the swingarm unit provides much better light, even if i switch out the magnifier that i'm looking through to the head-mounted unit.

there are also versions of this magnifier that are LED lit (90+ 3.5v non-smt white leds.). this can be nice because the LEDs will never need to be replaced. the CFL bulb will, eventually.

yes, blick art is actually named ****blick. it's the most hilarious human comedy. first of all, that's the founder's name. if that weren't bad enough, he named his gigantic chain of art stores after himself. i suspect no marketing experts were around when he decided to do this...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 08 September 2013, 08:20:20
there are two more tips i keep around for special usage: first, the wedge tip that is flat on one side and rounded on the other (basically like a half chisel). these are slightly better for smd wipe soldering than chisels. second, i keep a long pointy tip around when literally nothing else will fit into the space around the joint. but 99% of the tip i have either an 8mm, 16mm, 24mm, or 32mm hakko chisel on (the t18-dxx where xx is the width of the chisel surface).

Just in case anyone reads that in the future and are confused, he meant 0.8mm; 1.6mm; 2.4mm and 3.2mm.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 08:23:51
yes, sorry, 0630 brain fart.

those would be GIGANTIC chisels.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sun, 08 September 2013, 08:30:26
those would be GIGANTIC chisels.


Ha. That's what I was thinking when I read that post, but figured if anyone accidentally bought (or even found) a chisel that big, it would be worth the story.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Sun, 08 September 2013, 09:03:45
there are two more tips i keep around for special usage: first, the wedge tip that is flat on one side and rounded on the other (basically like a half chisel). these are slightly better for smd wipe soldering than chisels. second, i keep a long pointy tip around when literally nothing else will fit into the space around the joint. but 99% of the tip i have either an 8mm, 16mm, 24mm, or 32mm hakko chisel on (the t18-dxx where xx is the width of the chisel surface).

Just in case anyone reads that in the future and are confused, he meant 0.8mm; 1.6mm; 2.4mm and 3.2mm.


My mental image of kawa wielding a 32mm soldering tip like a sword is now ruined :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 08 September 2013, 09:28:48
there are two more tips i keep around for special usage: first, the wedge tip that is flat on one side and rounded on the other (basically like a half chisel). these are slightly better for smd wipe soldering than chisels. second, i keep a long pointy tip around when literally nothing else will fit into the space around the joint. but 99% of the tip i have either an 8mm, 16mm, 24mm, or 32mm hakko chisel on (the t18-dxx where xx is the width of the chisel surface).

Just in case anyone reads that in the future and are confused, he meant 0.8mm; 1.6mm; 2.4mm and 3.2mm.


My mental image of kawa wielding a 32mm soldering tip like a sword is now ruined :(

Don't worry, he is about to w(i)eld using a large sword made of ARCS. Who needs wimpy hot metal...

Ming's Awesome Lightsaber StoreTM

Don't forget the royalties on that one when it catches on.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 09:33:01
if it helps any, the welder cathode and anode at 32mm diameter copper chromium so i'm still going to do that, just at 1100C and not 350C ;)

i would take a picture but i can't find them (seriously) on my bench right now
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Sun, 08 September 2013, 10:33:53
if it helps any, the welder cathode and anode at 32mm diameter copper chromium so i'm still going to do that, just at 1100C and not 350C ;)

i would take a picture but i can't find them (seriously) on my bench right now

Yea they must be just TOO BIG for you to find them  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Sun, 08 September 2013, 10:40:04
I retract my previous statement, kawa is still wields tools of madness, order is restored.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Sun, 08 September 2013, 10:53:15
How do you guys clean boards with white soldermask?

I friggin hate these things. First A87 ps2avr, and now the Phantom is using white solder mask.
The flux gets everywhere and becomes so obvious, and it is a pain to clean with just 99% IPA and a lint free cloth.

Are there any other better methods to clean residual flux off the board?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 08 September 2013, 10:57:41
More IPA and a nail brush :D
Rinse, Brush, Rinse, Brush, Rinse, Brush...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 08 September 2013, 11:06:06
Chisel tips make better contact with the solder pads on the PCB, which heats them up faster. Soldering small stuff is more about adding a small enough amount of solder than anything else. The solder flows where it is supposed to go anyway. Chisel tips also usually have a pretty pointy corner if you want something smaller. I am able to do most tasks with my 2mm chisel tip, but my most used one is a 1.2mm chisel tip. No matter how small the tip is it's always an improvement if it is chisel shaped rather than with a rounded conical shape.

Chisel tips are different though. They should have a sharp straight edge, and flat sides. Like this
(Attachment Link)
not like this
(Attachment Link)

You want to get into that corner as far as possible
(Attachment Link)

why not the second one?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 11:15:36
i use a branded flux remover. it's either made by mg chem or chemtronics, but it's frickin effective. it's basically every organic solvent at once. they skip the solvents that will destroy the pcb itself, but that's it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Sun, 08 September 2013, 11:30:33
Chisel tips make better contact with the solder pads on the PCB, which heats them up faster. Soldering small stuff is more about adding a small enough amount of solder than anything else. The solder flows where it is supposed to go anyway. Chisel tips also usually have a pretty pointy corner if you want something smaller. I am able to do most tasks with my 2mm chisel tip, but my most used one is a 1.2mm chisel tip. No matter how small the tip is it's always an improvement if it is chisel shaped rather than with a rounded conical shape.

Chisel tips are different though. They should have a sharp straight edge, and flat sides. Like this
(Attachment Link)
not like this
(Attachment Link)

You want to get into that corner as far as possible
(Attachment Link)

why not the second one?

because that tip has a flat edged tip and it can not make as much contact as the first.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 08 September 2013, 11:49:33
I use petrol and find it cleans much better than 99% IPA.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sun, 08 September 2013, 11:59:00
I use petrol and find it cleans much better than 99% IPA.

As in gasoline? Phew, I don't think I could stand the smell.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 12:31:28
mineral spirits are basically kerosene (actually usually naptha petroleum byproducts and turpentine). they are quite effective organic solvents when it comes to hydrocarbons.\

the other major solvents are lithium and silicone based. silicone tends to have pretty good stability and chemical resistance but is highy susceptile to ketones, among other things, less susceptible to petroleum derivatives. lithium soaps are highly susceptible to petroleum derivatives.

polymer lubricants each have their own special solvent story. basically the endcaps protect the polymer chain pretty effectively in most polymers (obviously there are some not so happy endings here -- ketones and almost any polymer is one of them, alcohols also tend to be pretty effective at attacking polymers.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Sun, 08 September 2013, 12:37:07
i use a branded flux remover. it's either made by mg chem or chemtronics, but it's frickin effective. it's basically every organic solvent at once. they skip the solvents that will destroy the pcb itself, but that's it.
When I ran out of flux remover I tried some R/C car Nitro cleaner and it worked better than the MG chemicals stuff I normally use. I may use this stuff from now on.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 14:07:10
woah! how can deny trying out something called nitro?! duly noted ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: loadstar81 on Sun, 08 September 2013, 14:17:05
This thread is a goldmine, thanks doods
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 08 September 2013, 14:58:39
I use petrol and find it cleans much better than 99% IPA.

As in gasoline? Phew, I don't think I could stand the smell.

Yes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 08 September 2013, 16:21:33
I use petrol and find it cleans much better than 99% IPA.

But doesn't it leave residue by itself (in difference to IPA which fully evaporates, which is the reason they use it for optic equipment I guess)?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 08 September 2013, 16:50:07
I use petrol and find it cleans much better than 99% IPA.

But doesn't it leave residue by itself (in difference to IPA which fully evaporates, which is the reason they use it for optic equipment I guess)?

In my experience, yes, but negligible which soon evaporates as well, since petrol is highly volatile.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 17:06:29
both IPA and hydrocarbon solvents (of which petroleum distillates such as naptha kerosene, etc. etc. etc. are all such) are incredibly volatile and will vaporize quite quickly. the most annoying thing about them actually is that they disassemble/dissolve the thing you don't want on there and then they vaporize and then you have the remains of the thing to clean up with yet another cleaner. BLURGH!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Sun, 08 September 2013, 17:55:01
Hey, what kind of tips does the Hakko FX888D come with? Does it have the "popular" chisels tips?

If not, where do you buy them? They are like 10$ each + shipping (like almost another 10$ for me) on ebay...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 September 2013, 19:43:33
it comes with a t18-d16 1.6mm chisel. the cheapest place i've found tips is actually fry's. ebay tips are usually knock-offs, so don't bother with that. the reseller that consistently gets the buy box on amazon for the 888D also sells tips FBA and they only charge a couple bucks for the pick and pack fees. imo though, unless you need a really weird SMD tip or you know you're going to be soldering something GIGANTIC (even my welder didn't need more than the d16 by the way), don't bother buying more tips until you have a lot more experience and something particularly weird to solder
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Sun, 08 September 2013, 19:46:53
OK, thx for the info, that 1.6mm should work just good!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 09 September 2013, 03:24:54
why not the second one?

It has the flat sides, which is a good start. But the tip is too round. It should be a sharp edge, like a knife, no radius. It's too blunt to put it in other words. It probably does pretty good for large stuff like through hole soldering.

I usually cheat a little when soldering through hole. I start of by melting the solder wire against the iron to get the heat transfer going. After that I continue feeding the solder directly onto the contact surfaces.

For cleaning I use regular rubbing alcohol and a brush (ESD just to play it safe). Then I rinse off in a second cleaner bath of the same alcohol. If I have access to it I finish off by blow drying with pressurized air. That way remaining solids are blown off rather than drying onto the surface.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Mon, 09 September 2013, 04:44:50
I usually cheat a little when soldering through hole. I start of by melting the solder wire against the iron to get the heat transfer going. After that I continue feeding the solder directly onto the contact surfaces.

That's actually exactly what you're supposed to do. IPC soldering manuals provide instruction to do exactly that.

Quote
e) Place the soldering iron tip on the connection at the point of maximum thermal mass.
f) Create a heat (solder) bridge by applying flux-cored solder to the junction of the pad, the lead, and the
iron tip (Figure 7-33).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Mon, 09 September 2013, 14:09:07
Building a new keyboard soon...need some solder...whats the best deal on the web right now? Bonus points if I can get it from mouser (do they even sell it?)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 09 September 2013, 14:14:19
i have a lb of solder that i can divvy up right now as a test to see how people like NOS vs old stock kester 44
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 09 September 2013, 14:14:44
i mean NEW NEW stock vs new OLD STOCK. sorry.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Mon, 09 September 2013, 14:55:58
i have a lb of solder that i can divvy up right now as a test to see how people like NOS vs old stock kester 44

I'll be building a handwired keyboard...is that a good test subject? Or are you looking for people doing PCB stuff?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 09 September 2013, 14:58:48
i have a lb of solder that i can divvy up right now as a test to see how people like NOS vs old stock kester 44

I'll be building a handwired keyboard...is that a good test subject? Or are you looking for people doing PCB stuff?

That application has even higher demands than PCB work so you are probably suitable. It needs an even stronger mechanical bond and since you are soldering a bunch of free hanging wires you are more likely to move them which is a strong suit of eutectic solder. You do not want to move around a non-eutectic solder joint when it is solidifying. (Not that you want to move around a joint with eutectic solder either, it will just cause less problems.)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 09 September 2013, 15:48:17
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 09 September 2013, 15:52:32
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Mon, 09 September 2013, 15:58:44
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

^this...

How much would it cost to send one to Canada?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 09 September 2013, 16:13:30
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

^this...

How much would it cost to send one to Canada?  :rolleyes:

Medium flat rate box priority from the US to Canada is $41.95
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 09 September 2013, 16:18:08
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

Fry's does online ordering/shipping.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Mon, 09 September 2013, 16:29:58
I'll just leave these here for possible inclusion in sticky; as relevant today as they were back in the day they were made:

list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837

list=PL958FF32927823D12
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 09 September 2013, 16:33:54
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

Fry's does online ordering/shipping.

 Shipping: Available In-Store Only :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 09 September 2013, 16:59:19
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

Fry's does online ordering/shipping.

 Shipping: Available In-Store Only :(

Where you live?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 09 September 2013, 17:04:03
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

Fry's does online ordering/shipping.

 Shipping: Available In-Store Only :(

Where you live?


middle of nowhere between st louis, chicago, nashville and indianopolis :p

you have my address ;) ccng haha
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 09 September 2013, 17:04:40
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

Fry's does online ordering/shipping.

 Shipping: Available In-Store Only :(

Where you live?


middle of nowhere between st louis, chicago, nashville and indianopolis :p

you have my address ;) ccng haha

Doesn't mean I memorized it

Make it worth my while to get one and mail it to you.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 09 September 2013, 17:07:38
Frys has the Hakko 888D on sale this week for $69.99 which is a good deal if you have a Frys near you. I have the older 888 and its a great solder station for the price range.

That's a really good deal. Too bad I've never even seen a fry's store  ::)

Fry's does online ordering/shipping.

 Shipping: Available In-Store Only :(

Where you live?


middle of nowhere between st louis, chicago, nashville and indianopolis :p

you have my address ;) ccng haha

Doesn't mean I memorized it

Make it worth my while to get one and mail it to you.

But then I'd have to do something with the hakko 888 I already have ;)

I'd better not, thanks for offering though  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Mon, 09 September 2013, 17:32:58
Hey guys, I'm looking to get a soldering iron as I may do some DIY boards in the future. The only concern I have is that I don't know how much soldering I will be doing in the future, so I'm unsure on whether or not I should spend a lot of money on an iron just to have it laying around doing nothing. How good are the budget irons? I noticed that the Yihua 936 here (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=24790) is basically a clone of the Hakko 936, but the price of $15.34 has me pretty skeptical. Do you think it would be worth it to go for something like the Hakko FX-888D (I found it online at a Canadian retailer for $110 shipped), or should I go for something cheaper?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 09 September 2013, 17:40:25
Hey guys, I'm looking to get a soldering iron as I may do some DIY boards in the future. The only concern I have is that I don't know how much soldering I will be doing in the future, so I'm unsure on whether or not I should spend a lot of money on an iron just to have it laying around doing nothing. How good are the budget irons? I noticed that the Yihua 936 here (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=24790) is basically a clone of the Hakko 936, but the price of $15.34 has me pretty skeptical. Do you think it would be worth it to go for something like the Hakko FX-888D (I found it online at a Canadian retailer for $110 shipped), or should I go for something cheaper?
I have the Yihua. Nothing special, but it does the job quite well. Far better than anything with a price anywhere near $20.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thimplum on Mon, 09 September 2013, 18:34:14
Hey guys, I'm looking to get a soldering iron as I may do some DIY boards in the future. The only concern I have is that I don't know how much soldering I will be doing in the future, so I'm unsure on whether or not I should spend a lot of money on an iron just to have it laying around doing nothing. How good are the budget irons? I noticed that the Yihua 936 here (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=24790) is basically a clone of the Hakko 936, but the price of $15.34 has me pretty skeptical. Do you think it would be worth it to go for something like the Hakko FX-888D (I found it online at a Canadian retailer for $110 shipped), or should I go for something cheaper?
I have the Yihua. Nothing special, but it does the job quite well. Far better than anything with a price anywhere near $20.

I don't own one, but I've used one a few times. It's quite solidly built, and heats up fast. I recommend it if you're on a budget.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 09 September 2013, 18:36:38
that is what is known as a deal folks

that said, frys has been running some in-store only deals where they have like 1 unit in a region. if that's the case, not worth it for 10 bucks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 00:18:52
Hey guys, I'm looking to get a soldering iron as I may do some DIY boards in the future. The only concern I have is that I don't know how much soldering I will be doing in the future, so I'm unsure on whether or not I should spend a lot of money on an iron just to have it laying around doing nothing. How good are the budget irons? I noticed that the Yihua 936 here (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=24790) is basically a clone of the Hakko 936, but the price of $15.34 has me pretty skeptical. Do you think it would be worth it to go for something like the Hakko FX-888D (I found it online at a Canadian retailer for $110 shipped), or should I go for something cheaper?
I have the Yihua. Nothing special, but it does the job quite well. Far better than anything with a price anywhere near $20.

I don't own one, but I've used one a few times. It's quite solidly built, and heats up fast. I recommend it if you're on a budget.
The Yihua 936 will run me about ~$45. Would it be worth it to go up $65 and get a Hakko FX-888D, or should I use that saved money for things like a fume extractor, solder, extra tips, etc.? For ~$45 would there be any better alternatives, or is the Yihua 936 the king of budget?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 10 September 2013, 01:02:27
Hey guys, I'm looking to get a soldering iron as I may do some DIY boards in the future. The only concern I have is that I don't know how much soldering I will be doing in the future, so I'm unsure on whether or not I should spend a lot of money on an iron just to have it laying around doing nothing. How good are the budget irons? I noticed that the Yihua 936 here (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=24790) is basically a clone of the Hakko 936, but the price of $15.34 has me pretty skeptical. Do you think it would be worth it to go for something like the Hakko FX-888D (I found it online at a Canadian retailer for $110 shipped), or should I go for something cheaper?
I have the Yihua. Nothing special, but it does the job quite well. Far better than anything with a price anywhere near $20.

I don't own one, but I've used one a few times. It's quite solidly built, and heats up fast. I recommend it if you're on a budget.
The Yihua 936 will run me about ~$45. Would it be worth it to go up $65 and get a Hakko FX-888D, or should I use that saved money for things like a fume extractor, solder, extra tips, etc.? For ~$45 would there be any better alternatives, or is the Yihua 936 the king of budget?

+1 to this. I'd love to know as I have to get a replacement soldering iron too by the end of the month!

Also where can you get a Hakko FX-888D for $65?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 01:11:31
VesperSAINT, sorry if it was a little confusing, but I meant spend an extra $65 to get the Hakko FX-888D (It's $110 shipped in Canada).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 01:14:24
So I am in the process of building a custom detachable cable for a keyboard project and have a question.  On a standard USB cable does the wire wrap for shielding really need to be soldered to the shroud of the plug for the USB to function?  Or does it even need to be soldered to the shroud at all?

If it does any suggestions if the shielding on mine won't take solder?  I can get it hot enough to melt the solder on the wire itself but it just beads up and runs off with none sticking to the wire.

Melvang
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 10 September 2013, 02:08:57
So I am in the process of building a custom detachable cable for a keyboard project and have a question.  On a standard USB cable does the wire wrap for shielding really need to be soldered to the shroud of the plug for the USB to function?  Or does it even need to be soldered to the shroud at all?

If it does any suggestions if the shielding on mine won't take solder?  I can get it hot enough to melt the solder on the wire itself but it just beads up and runs off with none sticking to the wire.

Melvang

It does not need to attach, no.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 07:32:17
the shielding is literally just there to shield. it doesn't need to be tied to ground, it just needs to block E field. metallized foil does that no matter what potential it's at, for the most part.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 07:40:07
Excellent thanks guys.  You just made this cable a lot easier.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 07:56:45
 :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:06:09
Hey guys, I'm looking to get a soldering iron as I may do some DIY boards in the future. The only concern I have is that I don't know how much soldering I will be doing in the future, so I'm unsure on whether or not I should spend a lot of money on an iron just to have it laying around doing nothing. How good are the budget irons? I noticed that the Yihua 936 here (http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=24790) is basically a clone of the Hakko 936, but the price of $15.34 has me pretty skeptical. Do you think it would be worth it to go for something like the Hakko FX-888D (I found it online at a Canadian retailer for $110 shipped), or should I go for something cheaper?
I have the Yihua. Nothing special, but it does the job quite well. Far better than anything with a price anywhere near $20.

I don't own one, but I've used one a few times. It's quite solidly built, and heats up fast. I recommend it if you're on a budget.
The Yihua 936 will run me about ~$45. Would it be worth it to go up $65 and get a Hakko FX-888D, or should I use that saved money for things like a fume extractor, solder, extra tips, etc.? For ~$45 would there be any better alternatives, or is the Yihua 936 the king of budget?


I am having the same dilemma, but right now I consider that the Yihua is a deal at 15$, but at 45$ it's not worth it while at least with the FX888D you know you will get some better quality that should last.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:26:30
For my money, the Yihua 936 is the best soldering station you can get for $50 or less. Above that, you might as well spring for the Hakko FX-888D ($90), or a used Hakko 936 ($75).

The Yihua is definitely a "deal" at $15 plus shipping (also $15), so the total shipped to the US has always been $30. I still think it's far better than the Weller WLC-100, which typically runs $50.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:36:26
i have bought many tools in my lifetime and the only ones i still have are the ones that i put the extra scratch into. the others all end up broken. a broken tool is a useless tool. buy quality tools that are designed to be rebuilt and resharpened and used for the rest of your life. it may be a 50% premium, but over time, an eg 500$ multimeter is like 25$/year if you use it for 20 years. my last 200$ multimeter went 10 years and is going to go another 10 years with ron.

another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:42:28
another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.

Not only that, but some tools which break while you use them can damage the actual object you are working on. If you work on expensive or otherwise important objects, use decent tools.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:43:46
Ok Ok:

Birthday list:

- Hakko FX888D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:44:18
another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.

Not only that, but some tools which break while you use them can destroy the object you are working on.


on top of the possibility of damage to yourself.  I don't care what you are doing, no job is worth a finger.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:44:47
For my money, the Yihua 936 is the best soldering station you can get for $50 or less. Above that, you might as well spring for the Hakko FX-888D ($90), or a used Hakko 936 ($75).

The Yihua is definitely a "deal" at $15 plus shipping (also $15), so the total shipped to the US has always been $30. I still think it's far better than the Weller WLC-100, which typically runs $50.

I'm very pleased so far with the Aoyue 937+ I bought via Amazon; $61 shipped.  Digital heat settings, heats up fast, hold temperature well, comes with spare element, and takes the same tips as Hakko.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:50:18
I have the Weller WLC-100 with the 1-5 heat settings and I haven't had any problems with it yet.  Heats up quick and seems to hold heat setting pretty well.  I got mine at a local Sears for around 50.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:56:23
another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.

Not only that, but some tools which break while you use them can destroy the object you are working on.


on top of the possibility of damage to yourself.  I don't care what you are doing, no job is worth a finger.

absolutely. one reason why i don't use big machines ;) that one i'm leaving to you melvang ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 08:58:36
For my money, the Yihua 936 is the best soldering station you can get for $50 or less. Above that, you might as well spring for the Hakko FX-888D ($90), or a used Hakko 936 ($75).

The Yihua is definitely a "deal" at $15 plus shipping (also $15), so the total shipped to the US has always been $30. I still think it's far better than the Weller WLC-100, which typically runs $50.

I'm very pleased so far with the Aoyue 937+ I bought via Amazon; $61 shipped.  Digital heat settings, heats up fast, hold temperature well, comes with spare element, and takes the same tips as Hakko.
yah, the yihua's are surprisingly good because they clones the hakko 936/937 (a good design) and then spent the next 15 years refining their clone. that said, hakko completely changed the game with the 888d. it's a sea change in affordable hobbyist stations. hell, look at the specs. its temp regulator is more accurate than the one in the 951, 203, 204, etc.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:07:16
You know, I did my entire Poker II LED project with a $14 (overpriced) 45W radioshack pencil. I never had a problem with it (my one problem with the project came from my stupid brain). I mean it was a little inconvenient using such a large tip for such a small pad, but that was my only quirk.

It was my first soldering experience. I didn't (still don't) have any flux, wick, or the other fancy things mentioned in this thread. I had an iron, a sucker, and a small bit of solder that came with the iron. I didn't even know the importance of a clean tip or touching it to a sponge for half the project. And this was my result:

(http://i.imgur.com/z2R5c9j.jpg)

I saw someone give up on a project because someone told them not to get an iron from radioshack, but rather to buy some $80 station, because they couldn't afford it. YES, better tools are better and they cost more...but if there is some kid wanting to do a project and its nothing more than doing a few connections on a PCB, you don't need to spend $100-200 to get into soldering. I'll be getting a nice station some day, but right now it's not in the budget... but I'd never be into soldering if it wasn't for that $15 iron I bought from radioshack to get me started.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:13:01
another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.

Not only that, but some tools which break while you use them can destroy the object you are working on.


on top of the possibility of damage to yourself.  I don't care what you are doing, no job is worth a finger.

absolutely. one reason why i don't use big machines ;) that one i'm leaving to you melvang ;)

Don't worry mkawa, stay in the truck.  I think the worst tool we have on the job as far as the possibility of losing a finger or that sort of thing is the Hy-torq.  Basically is is a hydraulic powered ratchet that depending on the setup can be capable of exerting over 25,000 lb/ft of torque on a nut.  Runs at up to 10,000 psi on mineral oil.  The biggest danger with these is the 10kpsi.  Even aside from the fact that fluid at that pressure can literally cut you in half or take your hand off at the wrist but with that oil if it gets injected into you for whatever reason it WILL cause gangrene.  Not a "can" or a "possibility" it is a WILL and anywhere that oil has come into contact with internal tissue has to be flayed open and left open until completely healed.

sorry for getting off topic  but the point is still the same.  Cheap tools are not worth the risk of damage to any of the following, the tool itself, the equipment you are working on, or yourself.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:14:33
I know people who can use $2 soldering irons and are producing goods for the market on commercial industrial scale, that doesn't mean I can do the same.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:16:04
ok now let's say you're a 15 year old kid instead of not, as you're clearly not a 15 year old kid. you're trying to solder something and all you have is your overpriced 15$ radio shack pencil and some 0.1" solder the cellphone salesman sold you. the entire board quickly becomes filled with solder bridges and you can't even get a keyboard working. you're frustrated and give up. it goes both ways broski. just because you had the patience and dexterity to use an old school pencil doesn't mean anyone else is going to. we are here to detail the significant differences between tiers of tools. we can say HERE'S THE DEAL: if you buy an underpowered oversized radio shack pencil you will have the following problems you will have to work through. here's a video of a very experienced solderer using such a setup. IF you shell out for a state of the art hobbyist station, here are the pitfalls you avoid. here's a video of a very experienced solderer using such a setup. if you read the entire thread, we don't force anyone to do anything, including giving up on their projects. it's not geekhack's fault if some kid can't decide on a station or doesn't have enough confidence in his or her ability to experiment.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:17:23
another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.

Not only that, but some tools which break while you use them can destroy the object you are working on.


on top of the possibility of damage to yourself.  I don't care what you are doing, no job is worth a finger.

absolutely. one reason why i don't use big machines ;) that one i'm leaving to you melvang ;)

Don't worry mkawa, stay in the truck.  I think the worst tool we have on the job as far as the possibility of losing a finger or that sort of thing is the Hy-torq.  Basically is is a hydraulic powered ratchet that depending on the setup can be capable of exerting over 25,000 lb/ft of torque on a nut.  Runs at up to 10,000 psi on mineral oil.  The biggest danger with these is the 10kpsi.  Even aside from the fact that fluid at that pressure can literally cut you in half or take your hand off at the wrist but with that oil if it gets injected into you for whatever reason it WILL cause gangrene.  Not a "can" or a "possibility" it is a WILL and anywhere that oil has come into contact with internal tissue has to be flayed open and left open until completely healed.

sorry for getting off topic  but the point is still the same.  Cheap tools are not worth the risk of damage to any of the following, the tool itself, the equipment you are working on, or yourself.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:21:20
 :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:21:26
Woah, I didn't mean to rustle any jimmies.

I just saw a kid give up on trying soldering somewhere yesterday because someone told him you can't do it with cheap stuff. That made me sad.  :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:27:23
that makes me equally sad. i hope he comes back and reads the whole thread.

if not, we have the keepers to summarize this kind of information now. the keepers is something i've been trying to get going for 6 months now, and i'm overjoyed that we now have a team that can collect and curate this kind fo information.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:29:39
Right now, my main concern with shelling out a reasonable amount of money on the FX-888D, is that I am unsure how much soldering I'll be doing in the future. From what I can see, I MAY do an ErgoDox, and I MAY do a Phantom, but neither are for sure. I might just do one and then never solder another thing in my life. That's really the only reason I'm considering buying a Yihua.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:30:30
that makes me equally sad. i hope he comes back and reads the whole thread.

if not, we have the keepers to summarize this kind of information now. the keepers is something i've been trying to get going for 6 months now, and i'm overjoyed that we now have a team that can collect and curate this kind fo information.

Damnit kawa, what if I don't live up to your expectations! o.O
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:31:00
that makes me equally sad. i hope he comes back and reads the whole thread.

if not, we have the keepers to summarize this kind of information now. the keepers is something i've been trying to get going for 6 months now, and i'm overjoyed that we now have a team that can collect and curate this kind fo information.
I'll make it my personal mission to make sure every 15 year old in the world knows that they can solder with the cheapest iron on the market. After all, that's what i did last year (coincidentally when i was 15)

Right now, my main concern with shelling out a reasonable amount of money on the FX-888D, is that I am unsure how much soldering I'll be doing in the future. From what I can see, I MAY do an ErgoDox, and I MAY do a Phantom, but neither are for sure. I might just do one and then never solder another thing in my life. That's really the only reason I'm considering buying a Yihua.
Just get the yihua if you're having to think this hard about it. The hakko is amazing, it's a gamechanger. But for this kind of stuff you don't need a gamechanger. You just need a good, solid soldering station - the yihua is that, and at a very good price too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:31:18
that makes me equally sad. i hope he comes back and reads the whole thread.

if not, we have the keepers to summarize this kind of information now. the keepers is something i've been trying to get going for 6 months now, and i'm overjoyed that we now have a team that can collect and curate this kind fo information.

Can we just go ahead and change that GH slogan to "We're all insane."?  :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:35:41
Woah, I didn't mean to rustle any jimmies.

I just saw a kid give up on trying soldering somewhere yesterday because someone told him you can't do it with cheap stuff. That made me sad.  :(

I am using a Weller WLC100 and it works great for basic assembly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:38:10
Woah, I didn't mean to rustle any jimmies.

I just saw a kid give up on trying soldering somewhere yesterday because someone told him you can't do it with cheap stuff. That made me sad.  :(

I am using a Weller WLC100 and it works great for basic assembly.

That's probably the one I'll be getting eventually. A friend of mine does soldering for many hours a week as a home-business and he uses one. If he can use it, it's good enough for me!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:38:43
I'll make it my personal mission to make sure every 15 year old in the world knows that they can solder with the cheapest iron on the market. After all, that's what i did last year (coincidentally when i was 15)

Just get the yihua if you're having to think this hard about it. The hakko is amazing, it's a gamechanger. But for this kind of stuff you don't need a gamechanger. You just need a good, solid soldering station - the yihua is that, and at a very good price too.

another thing you find when you're constantly breaking tools is that THEY COST YOU EXTRA TIME. you have a tool and a job. you need to accomplish the job, so you use the tool, it breaks you swear, YOUR JOB IS STILL NOT DONE. eff! buy another cheap one and the cycle repeats. buy tools to last.

The issue I'm having here with presenting this information is how do you strike a balance between the two of these? I've worked in enough shop environments to believe in mkawa's statement but the Yihua obviously works.

Woah, I didn't mean to rustle any jimmies.

I just saw a kid give up on trying soldering somewhere yesterday because someone told him you can't do it with cheap stuff. That made me sad.  :(

I am using a Weller WLC100 and it works great for basic assembly.

Alaric used that for a while too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 09:42:43
that makes me equally sad. i hope he comes back and reads the whole thread.

if not, we have the keepers to summarize this kind of information now. the keepers is something i've been trying to get going for 6 months now, and i'm overjoyed that we now have a team that can collect and curate this kind fo information.

Can we just go ahead and change that GH slogan to "We're all insane."?  :))
everyone i point to this forum figures it out pretty quickly. i think it's best left unsaid :))

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 10 September 2013, 10:51:40
that makes me equally sad. i hope he comes back and reads the whole thread.

if not, we have the keepers to summarize this kind of information now. the keepers is something i've been trying to get going for 6 months now, and i'm overjoyed that we now have a team that can collect and curate this kind fo information.

Can we just go ahead and change that GH slogan to "We're all insane."?  :))
everyone i point to this forum figures it out pretty quickly. i think it's best left unsaid :))

Yes, let those joining the forum and find out themselves :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 10 September 2013, 11:17:03
I really hope this thread is not what discouraged someone from attempting their project, even if all they could afford was a $15 RadioShack soldering pencil. This thread was meant to be a source of information for people who wanted to upgrade from that type of equipment to something better, within certain budgetary limits.

One certainly does not need a $100 soldering station to be successful in soldering their projects. In fact, I only recently upgraded to a real soldering station from that same RadioShack 30W pencil iron. For many years, that was what I used, simply because I didn't know alternatives existed. I can't even tell you how many projects I soldered with a 30W pencil iron and 60/40 0.032" rosin core solder. I didn't know what flux was, or how to use it. The bulb desoldering iron was my first real attempt at any desoldering, simply because I never could get the wick I had to work very well. FYI, your hand starts to fatigue after only a couple keyboards worth of desoldering, if you are using the bulb type desoldering iron. For a few dollars more, the $25 Soldapullt DS017 can save you lots of trouble.

The thing is, for $30 shipped, the Yihua is far and away better than trying to learn to solder with only a pencil iron. That is why I keep pushing the Yihua as a budget station. But by no means do I want people to stay away if they can only afford a pencil iron. You can learn to solder (well!) with a pencil iron, but you really have to develop your technique. Practice, practice, practice. What can I say? I did it for years, so I am living proof that it can be done.

Heat up those irons and build something! :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 11:27:28
I really hope this thread is not what discouraged someone from attempting their project, even if all they could afford was a $15 RadioShack soldering pencil.
...
The thing is, for $30 shipped, the Yihua is far and away better than trying to learn to solder with only a pencil iron.

It wasn't this thread, but it was people sounding like people in this thread.

Also its $45 shipped for me...which sucks. :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 10 September 2013, 11:28:48
Workers in India use 60/40 solder and can smell the temperature (Actually feel it from heat of iron near their nose), they have have ice cold hands which are static and solder at crazy speeds. Why? Years and years of practice.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 10 September 2013, 11:57:57
I really hope this thread is not what discouraged someone from attempting their project, even if all they could afford was a $15 RadioShack soldering pencil.
...
The thing is, for $30 shipped, the Yihua is far and away better than trying to learn to solder with only a pencil iron.

It wasn't this thread, but it was people sounding like people in this thread.

Also its $45 shipped for me...which sucks. :(

Hmm, I wonder if you didn't choose the USA Warehouse location at HobbyKing.com. It only showed $27.33 shipped via UPS for me.

But don't buy one, pixel5. You should have a gift from me arriving to your address in a couple weeks. It usually takes that long for them to get it packed and shipped, then via ground to your door. Anyway, it's the least I can do for a fellow TTU alum.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:01:15
But don't buy one, pixel5. You should have a gift from me arriving to your address in a couple weeks. It usually takes that long for them to get it packed and shipped, then via ground to your door. Anyway, it's the least I can do for a fellow TTU alum.

/me grumbles that he had to pay jdcarpe for his 936 and all he got was a messed up KMAC

:P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:05:26
But don't buy one, pixel5. You should have a gift from me arriving to your address in a couple weeks. It usually takes that long for them to get it packed and shipped, then via ground to your door. Anyway, it's the least I can do for a fellow TTU alum.

/me grumbles that he had to pay jdcarpe for his 936 and all he got was a messed up KMAC

:P

Are you blaming the botched KMAC on your soldering station now? :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:08:51
Well either I blame that or I have to blame the thing between the soldering station and the chair. And I like that thing. :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:10:50
Wow JD, what an excellent act of generosity, hats off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:12:22
Well, a PEBKAC error is a little better than an ID-10/T error.

Also, pixel5 get yourself some Hakko 900M-T-1.6D tips from eBay. Much better than the stock tip that comes on the Yihua.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:14:54
Well, a PEBKAC error is a little better than an ID-10/T error.

Lol <3

And for those who are worried for the keyboard, the KMAC is fixed and usable. Don't worry. :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:38:08
Man, international shipping for that Yihua is brutal.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:41:55
A+ JD

get the yihua locally. since it's very much made in china to be exported everywhere hakko tries to market anything, they're pretty much everywhere.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 10 September 2013, 12:51:57
Anyone know of a good place to buy electronic stuff in Canada (more specifically near Montreal)?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: argyakrivos on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:26:13
Just received my Aoyue 937+ :D

Initial thoughts - seems pretty solid, comes with a fine tip.

Haven't tested it yet, but it seems to be a decent soldering station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 10 September 2013, 17:00:41
A+ JD

get the yihua locally. since it's very much made in china to be exported everywhere hakko tries to market anything, they're pretty much everywhere.

I am actually having a hard time finding it anywhere except for HK and Ebay actually, let alone Canada.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 10 September 2013, 20:47:10
For anyone debating on spending the $10 or so for getting a slightly smaller tip.  I went from a stock 3.2mm tip on my weller to a 1.6mm tip and it feels like a fine scalpel through butter compared to the 3.2 felt like doing brain surgery with a pipewrench.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thimplum on Tue, 10 September 2013, 20:47:51
For anyone debating on spending the $10 or so for getting a slightly smaller tip.  I went from a stock 3.2mm tip on my weller to a 1.6mm tip and it feels like a fine scalpel through butter compared to the 3.2 felt like doing brain surgery with a pipewrench.

Haha! That's sooo true.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 11 September 2013, 02:02:32
 :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Noko on Wed, 11 September 2013, 07:01:20
A+ JD

get the yihua locally. since it's very much made in china to be exported everywhere hakko tries to market anything, they're pretty much everywhere.

I am actually having a hard time finding it anywhere except for HK and Ebay actually, let alone Canada.

This was the best Ebay deal I found for Canada, it beats the terrible HobbyKing shipping:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231006695127?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

There are plenty on Taobao too, if you want to use an agent.  Don't know if they are US plug though.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10329568946&ali_trackid=2:mm_29163901_0_0:1378901372_6k3_1596254088&spm=2014.21073621.1.0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thimplum on Wed, 11 September 2013, 09:27:40
:thumb:

what are you thumbsupping?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 09:46:03
A+ JD

get the yihua locally. since it's very much made in china to be exported everywhere hakko tries to market anything, they're pretty much everywhere.

I am actually having a hard time finding it anywhere except for HK and Ebay actually, let alone Canada.

This was the best Ebay deal I found for Canada, it beats the terrible HobbyKing shipping:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/231006695127?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

There are plenty on Taobao too, if you want to use an agent.  Don't know if they are US plug though.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10329568946&ali_trackid=2:mm_29163901_0_0:1378901372_6k3_1596254088&spm=2014.21073621.1.0

Hmm, the Ebay listing is pretty similar to the pricing of the one on HK. At this point I'll probably just go for the yihua.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 11 September 2013, 11:19:55
Desoldering my Nixdorf PCB with a Soldapullt right now.

All I can say is.. The Soldapullt is AMAZING at this. Far, far better than the ****ty knock-off I had before.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 11:51:45
Desoldering my Nixdorf PCB with a Soldapullt right now.

All I can say is.. The Soldapullt is AMAZING at this. Far, far better than the ****ty knock-off I had before.

 :thumb:

I have a piston-based solder vacuum. Is it significantly better than those?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Wed, 11 September 2013, 11:57:01
the OG soldapullt is awesome
i only hope i can afford my nixdorf soon  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:00:05
I have a piston-based solder vacuum. Is it significantly better than those?
http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=DS017
This is a piston one too, it's just really good.
I had a cheap piston-based one and it was ****, kept jamming etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:02:59
Desoldering my Nixdorf PCB with a Soldapullt right now.

All I can say is.. The Soldapullt is AMAZING at this. Far, far better than the ****ty knock-off I had before.

 :thumb:
you're going to freak when you use my massively upgraded soldapullts then :))

ps, i should be talking to edsyn today. we _will_ be getting a GH edition soldapullt. the question is what form it will take :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:13:25
you're going to freak when you use my massively upgraded soldapullts then :))

ps, i should be talking to edsyn today. we _will_ be getting a GH edition soldapullt. the question is what form it will take :)
Lubed with krytox and using a korean spring? :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:14:36
stock spring, but yes, there is a fair amount of fluorine involved.

let's just say that i can hold a vacuum on my ds017 for as long as i have the patience to block the nozzle ;)

also, all that crap on the barrel about no solvents no heat? yah, that's all meaningless with my changes :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:15:26
Desoldering my Nixdorf PCB with a Soldapullt right now.

All I can say is.. The Soldapullt is AMAZING at this. Far, far better than the ****ty knock-off I had before.

 :thumb:
you're going to freak when you use my massively upgraded soldapullts then :))

ps, i should be talking to edsyn today. we _will_ be getting a GH edition soldapullt. the question is what form it will take :)

Too much WIN!!

I'm waiting until you get the soldapullt's, solder wire, panavise's, lube, adapters etc then I'll make a massive order from the geekhackers store!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:17:13
stock spring, but yes, there is a fair amount of fluorine involved.

let's just say that i can hold a vacuum on my ds017 for as long as i have the patience to block the nozzle ;)

also, all that crap on the barrel about no solvents no heat? yah, that's all meaningless with my changes :)
Sounds great man! It's mega awesome that geekhack(geekhack ITSELF, not the community like with GBs) is starting to work with companies.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:18:30
the lube and adapters cost 2$ to ship domestically. no need to wait on those. the rest of it will cost more to ship and you may want to batch that, but if you want lube and switches please just order them now ;)

i'm less busy right now ordering-wise, and i may have to change prices AGAIN (ugh) once the storefront goes up
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 11 September 2013, 12:27:01
the lube and adapters cost 2$ to ship domestically. no need to wait on those. the rest of it will cost more to ship and you may want to batch that, but if you want lube and switches please just order them now ;)

i'm less busy right now ordering-wise, and i may have to change prices AGAIN (ugh) once the storefront goes up

Ok order placed!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 11 September 2013, 15:18:42
Diodes inside the switches made this soooo much harder.. 480 joints total
(http://i.imgur.com/rnuySiw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gNmavW0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fvTW8OJ.jpg)

Totally worth the hours of work! These switches are a dream to press. The true (mx) "cloud of boobs" switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:03:56
Hi,

To people located in Europe (Luxemburg/France/Belgium/Germany area), where do you buy your soldering products?

I can't find the HAKKO FX-888D anywhere, and the prices on amazon are just ridiculous. For example, a Kester 951 Soldering Flux Pen is $8.75 on amazon.com and €45 on amazon.de or amazon.fr. Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder is $41.58 on amazon.com and £133.36 on amazon.co.uk :(

Thanks

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:31:28
Hi,

To people located in Europe (Luxemburg/France/Belgium/Germany area), where do you buy your soldering products?

I can't find the HAKKO FX-888D anywhere, and the prices on amazon are just ridiculous. For example, a Kester 951 Soldering Flux Pen is $8.75 on amazon.com and €45 on amazon.de or amazon.fr. Kester 44 Rosin Core Solder is $41.58 on amazon.com and £133.36 on amazon.co.uk :(

Thanks

http://www.ebay.de/itm/New-HAKKO-FX-888D-ESD-Safe-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-/151109825604?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Elektrowerkzeuge&var=&hash=item232ed8f444
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=kester+951&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dkester%2B951%26_arr%3D1

FX-888D and listings for the Kester 951 Soldering Flux Pen.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:34:07
http://www.ebay.de/itm/New-HAKKO-FX-888D-ESD-Safe-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-/151109825604?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Elektrowerkzeuge&var=&hash=item232ed8f444
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=kester+951&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dkester%2B951%26_arr%3D1

FX-888D and listings for the Kester 951 Soldering Flux Pen.

I'm afraid it's not that easy. Here is what I get (google translated):

Quote from: amazon.de
Due to legal requirements in some countries, access to this article was unfortunately locked. We have blocked your access to this article since we are obliged to restrict access to objectionable articles. It does happen that we make access lock offers, although the respective offer does not violate the law. This is due to technical limitations. We would like you to apologize for any resulting inconvenience and hope that you will find other interesting items on eBay.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:36:31
http://www.ebay.de/itm/New-HAKKO-FX-888D-ESD-Safe-Soldering-Station-Soldering-Iron-/151109825604?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Elektrowerkzeuge&var=&hash=item232ed8f444
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=kester+951&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.de%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dkester%2B951%26_arr%3D1

FX-888D and listings for the Kester 951 Soldering Flux Pen.

I'm afraid it's not that easy. Here is what I get (google translated):

Quote from: amazon.de
Due to legal requirements in some countries, access to this article was unfortunately locked. We have blocked your access to this article since we are obliged to restrict access to objectionable articles. It does happen that we make access lock offers, although the respective offer does not violate the law. This is due to technical limitations. We would like you to apologize for any resulting inconvenience and hope that you will find other interesting items on eBay.

Wait, so you aren't able to view the listings? What part of EU are you from?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:38:43
Luxemburg, but I often go to Belgium.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:40:36
Luxemburg, but I often go to Belgium.

http://www.benl.ebay.be/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=hakko+fx-888&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benl.ebay.be%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dhakko%2Bfx-888%26_arr%3D1

yes?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:50:51
Luxemburg, but I often go to Belgium.

http://www.benl.ebay.be/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=hakko+fx-888&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benl.ebay.be%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dhakko%2Bfx-888%26_arr%3D1

yes?

Yes of course, but you have to add international shipping, VAT and customs taxes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 16:59:28
Luxemburg, but I often go to Belgium.

http://www.benl.ebay.be/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=hakko+fx-888&LH_PrefLoc=2&_arm=1&_armm=63&_ruu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benl.ebay.be%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3Dhakko%2Bfx-888%26_arr%3D1

yes?

Yes of course, but you have to add international shipping, VAT and customs taxes.
http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-FX888D-Soldering-Station-Replaces-936-12-FX888-Solder-Station-/171115482359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d7470cf7

Iss approx. $116.52 USD shipped which is pretty close to the amount that I would have to pay to get one in Canada. I'm unsure about what sort of taxes you would have to pay though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Wed, 11 September 2013, 17:11:25
I would have to pay $91.34 +  $25.18 (shipping) + $29.38 (taxes) = $145.9

What do you think about this (http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/language/EN/info/p6316_AOYUE-968A--Repairing-Hot-Air-Station-Soldering-Iron-with-Smoke-Absorber.html)? Is it as good as the Hakko recommended in this thread?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 17:14:46
I would have to pay $91.34 +  $25.18 (shipping) + $29.38 (taxes) = $145.9

What do you think about this (http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/language/EN/info/p6316_AOYUE-968A--Repairing-Hot-Air-Station-Soldering-Iron-with-Smoke-Absorber.html)? Is it as good as the Hakko recommended in this thread?

How much is it? It's recommended in this thread as well, so I assume it's pretty good. I don't have any personal experiences with it so I couldn't tell you.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Wed, 11 September 2013, 17:27:11
I would have to pay $91.34 +  $25.18 (shipping) + $29.38 (taxes) = $145.9

What do you think about this (http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/language/EN/info/p6316_AOYUE-968A--Repairing-Hot-Air-Station-Soldering-Iron-with-Smoke-Absorber.html)? Is it as good as the Hakko recommended in this thread?

How much is it? It's recommended in this thread as well, so I assume it's pretty good. I don't have any personal experiences with it so I couldn't tell you.

€150.59 + €5-12 shipping, maybe a better alternative given that I'd have to pay almost the same price for the hakko.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 11 September 2013, 17:31:58
I would have to pay $91.34 +  $25.18 (shipping) + $29.38 (taxes) = $145.9

What do you think about this (http://shop.wiltec.info/product_info.php/language/EN/info/p6316_AOYUE-968A--Repairing-Hot-Air-Station-Soldering-Iron-with-Smoke-Absorber.html)? Is it as good as the Hakko recommended in this thread?

How much is it? It's recommended in this thread as well, so I assume it's pretty good. I don't have any personal experiences with it so I couldn't tell you.

€150.59 + €5-12 shipping, maybe a better alternative given that I'd have to pay almost the same price for the hakko.

It's actually really cool that it has a built in smoke absorber, as well as the hot air gun.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 11 September 2013, 23:28:20
lit is the only one who has really written extensively about the aoyue and his conclusion is that you should get a dedicated hot air, iron and whatever unit instead. he never uses anything but the iron, and it's a pretty so-so iron.

the smoke absorber is largely useless (although he did say he liked it), it doesn't really do much to absorb the smoke, it just disperses it away from you. see my DIY smoke absorber thread to see why. a reasonable absorption unit needs at least 5lbs of activated charcoal, regularly changed, and a fan that moves enough air to actually draw the smoke away from your station. you also want low velocity and maximum pressure through the actual charcoal, which needs to be granulated ionized carbon and not just "carbon impregnated filter medium". the latter is completely worthless.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 10:02:10
I just bought a Helping hands + magnifying glass + LED light + iron holder combo on amazon. My project is getting closer and closer to takeoff. GET HYPE.

Still need to buy a new tip for my iron and some solder. I'm probably just going to go to radioshack for those.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:20:52
lit is the only one who has really written extensively about the aoyue and his conclusion is that you should get a dedicated hot air, iron and whatever unit instead. he never uses anything but the iron, and it's a pretty so-so iron.

the smoke absorber is largely useless (although he did say he liked it), it doesn't really do much to absorb the smoke, it just disperses it away from you. see my DIY smoke absorber thread to see why. a reasonable absorption unit needs at least 5lbs of activated charcoal, regularly changed, and a fan that moves enough air to actually draw the smoke away from your station. you also want low velocity and maximum pressure through the actual charcoal, which needs to be granulated ionized carbon and not just "carbon impregnated filter medium". the latter is completely worthless.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll buy the hakko then, or a Weller station if I can find an affordable one.

I had a look at your DIY smoke absorber. Really nice and easy to build. Question: how often do you replace the activated charcoal?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thimplum on Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:42:04
I just bought a Helping hands + magnifying glass + LED light + iron holder combo on amazon. My project is getting closer and closer to takeoff. GET HYPE.

yaayyay! What project is it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 12 September 2013, 11:47:42
lit is the only one who has really written extensively about the aoyue and his conclusion is that you should get a dedicated hot air, iron and whatever unit instead. he never uses anything but the iron, and it's a pretty so-so iron.

the smoke absorber is largely useless (although he did say he liked it), it doesn't really do much to absorb the smoke, it just disperses it away from you. see my DIY smoke absorber thread to see why. a reasonable absorption unit needs at least 5lbs of activated charcoal, regularly changed, and a fan that moves enough air to actually draw the smoke away from your station. you also want low velocity and maximum pressure through the actual charcoal, which needs to be granulated ionized carbon and not just "carbon impregnated filter medium". the latter is completely worthless.

Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll buy the hakko then, or a Weller station if I can find an affordable one.

I had a look at your DIY smoke absorber. Really nice and easy to build. Question: how often do you replace the activated charcoal?


i currently have two large FRB based boxes with two different venting patterns. each large FRB holds about 10lbs of charcoal. i suspect i'll change the charcoal at about the 6-8 month mark. but i have not only solder fumes but abs vapors from the printer and solvent vapors so ymmv. activated charcoal is also washable. soaking it in warm water with a mild detergent will actually start unclogging granules, which will hold aromatic crap again once unclogged. that said, a lot of rinsing is involved, and at the price i get my charcoal at (1$/lb), i don't really care enough to wash anything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 12:26:29
I just bought a Helping hands + magnifying glass + LED light + iron holder combo on amazon. My project is getting closer and closer to takeoff. GET HYPE.

yaayyay! What project is it?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48156.0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 17:13:25
Are soldering guns bad for working with keyboards? I found a Weller 8200pk and am wondering how good it would work for soldering diodes and switches. I feel like maybe 100/140W may be too high for electronic work.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 17:53:53
Are soldering guns bad for working with keyboards? I found a Weller 8200pk and am wondering how good it would work for soldering diodes and switches. I feel like maybe 100/140W may be too high for electronic work.
[/quote
Soldering guns would be the worst thing you could use. I would not use one at all on keyboards or any electronics.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:07:54
Are soldering guns bad for working with keyboards? I found a Weller 8200pk and am wondering how good it would work for soldering diodes and switches. I feel like maybe 100/140W may be too high for electronic work.
[/quote
Soldering guns would be the worst thing you could use. I would not use one at all on keyboards or any electronics.
Alright, guess I'll be on the lookout for a soldering iron again.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:27:51
I use soldering guns all the time for electronics.  Just not things with PCBs though.  Just point to point.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 12 September 2013, 18:51:02
I use soldering guns all the time for electronics.  Just not things with PCBs though.  Just point to point.
I see, I was hoping I would be able to use it for PCB work, but doesn't seem like that's possible.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:17:19
I just soldered my SmallFry Keyboard prototype PCB using the Yihua. It's not quite the quality of my Hakko FX-888D, but it's definitely usable. Seems to heat up quickly and maintain temperature. Recovery time is slower than the 888, but it's not terrible. I could see using this as a primary station, if I didn't already own the 888.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:22:15
For the couple of you that are international and needing a good budget iron, PM me if you'd like for me to proxy you one of the yihuas.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 12 September 2013, 20:26:36
They also have DE warehouse that sells the yihua, for those of you in europe..

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__32515__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_with_EU_plug_EU_warehouse_.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:07:33
(http://i.imgflip.com/3kw3f.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 12 September 2013, 21:08:57
As a note, for me to ship, it'd be $25 - 40 on top of the price you see.  I don't know how many people that will still benefit, but there you go.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Fri, 13 September 2013, 03:44:06
Anyone can get a FX888 from a reputable Taobao reseller. 220V-240V version.
They cost $80 before shipping + Agent fees + shipping.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 13 September 2013, 06:57:35
Anyone can get a FX888 from a reputable Taobao reseller. 220V-240V version.
They cost $80 before shipping + Agent fees + shipping.

Are those legit hakkos? or are they just clones?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Fri, 13 September 2013, 08:18:40
Are those legit hakkos? or are they just clones?

It seems that some of the items listed (http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.51.hXMAE4&id=16328355810) on taobao have good reviews (google chrome translation helps). I don't know if this is a "legit" price 440 yuan = 72 dollars.

I've PM'd qtan to know if his taobao proxy service also works for soldering stations.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Fri, 13 September 2013, 13:09:36
Anyone can get a FX888 from a reputable Taobao reseller. 220V-240V version.
They cost $80 before shipping + Agent fees + shipping.

Are those legit hakkos? or are they just clones?

Here are some teardown pics I posted a few months back
Seller link: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.5.0.0.RbbT8A&id=13430939975
It looks pretty legit to me.

Can Tjcaustin put a link at the First post for those seeking for 220V-240V FX888D for Cheaps?
This version is very expensive elsewhere

Comparison to a FX888D from other sources
http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2013/03/hakko-fx-888d-solder-station-hi-res.html

More
(http://i.imgur.com/s5i1zKo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nPCkx5a.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P2oeOdG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ztAkliX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/00dRI0y.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/j00XDgL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ufYXUZH.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 13 September 2013, 22:31:50
one of the dangers of buying grey market eg via taobao.is that you.may g err t a unit that was either made on extra shift and did not pass wc or didn't pass qc regardless.I've bought stuff like.stuffed animals this way but I wouldn't cheap out on a soldering iron for the price difference
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Sat, 14 September 2013, 11:04:45
I just got this awesome multimeter at goodwill for $0.99. Works perfectly!

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8355692/phone/IMG_20130914_110346.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaiserreich on Sat, 14 September 2013, 13:27:58
For what it's worth, the seller of the solder station also sells other hakko stations at full price.

However, the unit was made in 2012.3 and I read that newer Hakkos have some improvement at chinese message boards talking about whether these units are genuine or not. What I am interpreting out of this,is that hakko is dumping these units in the chinese markets, and selling them for cheaps, as they lack some qc or feature compared to newer models.

The dumping info is my interpretation, but the "older" model lack of feature comes from a seller who sources his parts from the chinese hakko distributor. I am taking his word for it. Mine even makes the "signature" fx888 buzzing noise, occasionally


On a side note, i got some fluxclene and this thing just cleans everything so easily.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Sun, 15 September 2013, 00:57:02
I just got this awesome multimeter at goodwill for $0.99. Works perfectly!

Show Image
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8355692/phone/IMG_20130914_110346.jpg)


You got a great deal on that $3 multimeter.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sun, 15 September 2013, 06:21:24
I just got this awesome multimeter at goodwill for $0.99. Works perfectly!

Show Image
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8355692/phone/IMG_20130914_110346.jpg)


You got a great deal on that $3 multimeter.

LOL. There's something great about watching the needle jump though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 15 September 2013, 07:35:01
So I am trying to solder some wires onto a connector that has solder cups on the one side of things.  Any suggestions for getting the wires down into the cups for a good connection?

A couple of the wires are a little large for them.  Can I just split off a couple of the strands and cut so they fit down in a bit better?  I do have a "helping hands" for holding the connector but I still don't have 7 hands for everything.

Tips or suggestions very much welcome.

Edit:  StrikeEagleCC  What aircraft is that in your avatar?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 15 September 2013, 08:46:03
Edit:  StrikeEagleCC  What aircraft is that in your avatar?

I'm guessing it's an F-15E Strike Eagle. And that he's a crew chief for said aircraft. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 15 September 2013, 09:12:08
melvang, pics?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sun, 15 September 2013, 11:55:32
I'm guessing it's an F-15E Strike Eagle. And that he's a crew chief for said aircraft. :)
Yup, I was. I don't turn wrenches on it anymore though. Regardless of opinions about it's usage, it's one incredible machine.

So I am trying to solder some wires onto a connector that has solder cups on the one side of things.  Any suggestions for getting the wires down into the cups for a good connection?

A couple of the wires are a little large for them.  Can I just split off a couple of the strands and cut so they fit down in a bit better?  I do have a "helping hands" for holding the connector but I still don't have 7 hands for everything.

 Solder cups are a little tricky to begin with, but you'll soon get the hang of them. They can easily be done with 2 regular hands and your helping hands.

1.    Measure, strip, and tin the end of  your wire. You should strip enough of the wire so that when the wire is bottomed out in the cup, there is some clearance between the start of the insulation and the top of the cup (about one wire diameter's worth).
[attach=1]

2.    Take a length of solder, fold it in half once or twice to increase it's thickness, and twist it to form a multi-strand wire. Snip a bit of this off and drop it into the solder cup.
[attach=2]

3.    Then, lay your iron's chisel tip against the outside of the cup until the solder melts. While the solder is molten, insert your pre-tinned wire at an angle. in one movement, straighten the wire and force it down into the cup. Try to keep the wire in contact with the highest point of the cup wall (this only applies if you're using cups that have a milled edge).
[attach=3]

The trick to all of this is to estimate the correct amount of solder so that it fills the cup completely but does not overflow. It's better to start with too little solder, because it's easier to add more than to clean up the mess that happens when it spills over.

If your wires are too large for the cup, then ideally, you should get different wires or cups. If that is not an option, I suppose you could clip a few strands to get it to fit. Be aware however, that by doing this, you will decrease the strength of the wire below that of even the now smaller portion. In many home projects, this is not an issue, but just keep in mind that it will be more prone to failure from flexing and vibration than if you had just used a smaller wire.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 15 September 2013, 12:49:53
I'm guessing it's an F-15E Strike Eagle. And that he's a crew chief for said aircraft. :)

Indeed looks like the F-15 and the nick suggest model "E" aka. Strike Eagle

EDIT: Too late, lol
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Sun, 15 September 2013, 13:16:24
Make fun of me all you want. I got that multimeter 66% off. I win.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 15 September 2013, 13:38:53
I'm guessing it's an F-15E Strike Eagle. And that he's a crew chief for said aircraft. :)
Yup, I was. I don't turn wrenches on it anymore though. Regardless of opinions about it's usage, it's one incredible machine.

So I am trying to solder some wires onto a connector that has solder cups on the one side of things.  Any suggestions for getting the wires down into the cups for a good connection?

A couple of the wires are a little large for them.  Can I just split off a couple of the strands and cut so they fit down in a bit better?  I do have a "helping hands" for holding the connector but I still don't have 7 hands for everything.

 Solder cups are a little tricky to begin with, but you'll soon get the hang of them. They can easily be done with 2 regular hands and your helping hands.

1.    Measure, strip, and tin the end of  your wire. You should strip enough of the wire so that when the wire is bottomed out in the cup, there is some clearance between the start of the insulation and the top of the cup (about one wire diameter's worth).
[attach=1]

2.    Take a length of solder, fold it in half once or twice to increase it's thickness, and twist it to form a multi-strand wire. Snip a bit of this off and drop it into the solder cup.
[attach=2]

3.    Then, lay your iron's chisel tip against the outside of the cup until the solder melts. While the solder is molten, insert your pre-tinned wire at an angle. in one movement, straighten the wire and force it down into the cup. Try to keep the wire in contact with the highest point of the cup wall (this only applies if you're using cups that have a milled edge).
[attach=3]

The trick to all of this is to estimate the correct amount of solder so that it fills the cup completely but does not overflow. It's better to start with too little solder, because it's easier to add more than to clean up the mess that happens when it spills over.

If your wires are too large for the cup, then ideally, you should get different wires or cups. If that is not an option, I suppose you could clip a few strands to get it to fit. Be aware however, that by doing this, you will decrease the strength of the wire below that of even the now smaller portion. In many home projects, this is not an issue, but just keep in mind that it will be more prone to failure from flexing and vibration than if you had just used a smaller wire.
what i would do with this kind of connector is actually mechanically secure the wire to the cup while soldering. take an alligator clip or clip on heatsink and secure the end of the stripped bit of wire to the upper end of the solder cup. then, solder as normal with the cup and wire secured in a work holder (and as everyone knows my favorite work holders are the panavise line). once your soldering is done, as long as you didn't heat the retaining part (the clippy bit) to joint temp, it will come right off, because it's not part of hte joint.



i assume that this kind of connect has an additional mechanically securing component that fits over the entire assembly. remember, the mantra of soldering is that solder joints are _electrical connections only_ a good joint has two parts, an electrical connection and a mechanical connection. the melted solder is _not_ a mechanical connection.

as far as cutting some of the wire off the strand to get it to fit, basically you will decrease the current capacity of the wire at the joint. if you're just cutting a few strands off, this is not a big deal. if it's like half the wire you should do some back of the envelope calcs to make sure you don't need those strands _at the joint_. current capacity of a wire is largely dependent on diameter. current capacity of a stranded wire is iirc the geometric sum of the diameters.

oh, some basic E&M for you. you can actually think of current carrying wire as a system of tubes. the equations are actually analogous to simple pressure calcs over tubing, but replace pressure with current. this is because electrical current is actually physical movement of electrons (or electron holes, depending on which direction is most comfortable for you to think about).

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: StrikeEagleCC on Sun, 15 September 2013, 16:14:50
what i would do with this kind of connector is actually mechanically secure the wire to the cup while soldering. take an alligator clip or clip on heatsink and secure the end of the stripped bit of wire to the upper end of the solder cup. then, solder as normal with the cup and wire secured in a work holder (and as everyone knows my favorite work holders are the panavise line). once your soldering is done, as long as you didn't heat the retaining part (the clippy bit) to joint temp, it will come right off, because it's not part of hte joint.

using a tool to hold the wire in place while soldering it simplifies things a bit, but can potentially cause problems. If you position the wire, and then solder, the solder tends to form a "bubble", a skin at the top of the joint, and a gap of air underneath. If this happens, you will have a joint that may look normal, but is only half as mechanically or electrically secure as it could be.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 15 September 2013, 18:54:21
Thanks for the help guys I will post some pics of what I am working with in the morning.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 16 September 2013, 01:29:27
I again refer to Norman on soldering cups
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Mon, 16 September 2013, 17:53:41
Sorry for the noob question, but tbh I never paid much attention to the solder I used so far.

I might have a good deal on kester solder 285 or 282 rosin core solder, 0.02in.

How is it compared to the 44 kester recommended in the OP?

Also, is it a problem if the solder is from 2006? :p

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 16 September 2013, 18:27:12
odd. i've never seen a solder cup before actually, so i'll take your word on it. where are these connections common?

wow, this is crazy. an entire class of joint i know nothing about. so these cups are actually supposed to hold enough solder and have enough surface area that the solder joint is both mechanical and electrical retainer? _woah_.

kester 44 RA is a completely different product from the 285 series RMA flux cored wire and i don't see 283 in the catalogue. kester flux cored solders have a shelf life of 2-3 years from date of manufacture.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Mon, 16 September 2013, 18:58:28
The numbers are just indicative of the kind of flux in the core - make sure that you pick the right alloy as well, 60/40 or 63/37, etc. RA vs RMA is a bit debatable - generally RMA is sufficient for most applications and doesn't eat away at tips as much while leaving less residue, but RA is a bit more user friendly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 16 September 2013, 19:37:32
odd. i've never seen a solder cup before actually, so i'll take your word on it. where are these connections common?

wow, this is crazy. an entire class of joint i know nothing about. so these cups are actually supposed to hold enough solder and have enough surface area that the solder joint is both mechanical and electrical retainer? _woah_.

kester 44 RA is a completely different product from the 285 series RMA flux cored wire and i don't see 283 in the catalogue. kester flux cored solders have a shelf life of 2-3 years from date of manufacture.

I run across cups mainly in things like RCA connectors, myself.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 16 September 2013, 19:46:45
The numbers are just indicative of the kind of flux in the core - make sure that you pick the right alloy as well, 60/40 or 63/37, etc. RA vs RMA is a bit debatable - generally RMA is sufficient for most applications and doesn't eat away at tips as much while leaving less residue, but RA is a bit more user friendly.
RMA doesn't eat away at tips because it doesn't eat away at much at all :P. RA is much preferable for the newbie hobbyist. 7 year old RMA is going to be that much less effective.

actually i have a funny story about this, but i can't tell it unless AHEM someone i am almost positive is reading this joins the forum. (hint: 7 year old RMA fluxed lead free is what your grandfather probably gave you to start out with)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 16 September 2013, 21:30:01
The cups I am working with is on a Centronics 36 connector.  For this of you not familiar with this name it is the old printer cable plug that used the wire clips for retention instead of screws.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:38:41
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg) (http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:42:32
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


It's 91.35 for me (instead of 107.47). Is it auto-detecting that I'm from Canada and auto-increasing the price?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:42:55
B+D is who gets the buy box on amazon for the 888d regularly, so many people have probably purchased from them and not thought twice about it. that said, the 888d is coming up as 90$ with the discount for me. booooo

and no accessories are on sale. boooo again
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:45:39
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


They have a free shipping option too, or you can select 2-day or UPS Ground for an additional $9.25/$10.05 (estimated to my Zip code in Virginia).

That is a sweet deal!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:46:55
I'm thinking you have to make it to the end to see the discount? I looked at other Hakko items, and they don't show any price increase, so the discount is probably added at the end.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:47:55
I'm thinking you have to make it to the end to see the discount? I looked at other Hakko items, and they don't show any price increase, so the discount is probably added at the end.

I added it to cart, viewed cart, and the discount was shown right away.  Also has the option to estimate shipping costs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:51:04
I'm thinking you have to make it to the end to see the discount? I looked at other Hakko items, and they don't show any price increase, so the discount is probably added at the end.

I added it to cart, viewed cart, and the discount was shown right away.  Also has the option to estimate shipping costs.

Yep, that worked. Also, a Hakko 808 for a little over $150. Good deal?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 17 September 2013, 08:52:25
OK, works for me too, BUT THEY WONT SHIP TO MY ADDRESS!!!!  :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 17 September 2013, 09:02:29
I'm thinking you have to make it to the end to see the discount? I looked at other Hakko items, and they don't show any price increase, so the discount is probably added at the end.

I added it to cart, viewed cart, and the discount was shown right away.  Also has the option to estimate shipping costs.

Yep, that worked. Also, a Hakko 808 for a little over $150. Good deal?

I think that's be a great deal. They usually run ~$180 I believe. Is that from the same merchant being discussed?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 17 September 2013, 09:03:28
Yep. It's on sale for less than $179, then with the 15% off, around $152 or so.

http://www.bdent.com/hakko-808-kit-p-desoldering-kit.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 September 2013, 09:05:33
yep, now i'm seeing it. SWEET DEAL!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 17 September 2013, 09:43:51
So for those with 808 experience is it worth it to get the holder? What about getting extra nozzles, valves, cleaning pins, etc?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 17 September 2013, 09:44:52
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

HNNNG I need money. Maybe I can get this for my birthday...when does this deal end?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 17 September 2013, 10:35:15
So for those with 808 experience is it worth it to get the holder? What about getting extra nozzles, valves, cleaning pins, etc?

I wish I'd spent the money on the holder and I keep 2 - 4 nozzles at hand at all times.  Also, look into something that can switch the gun off/on as it doesn't have a switch for the heater.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Tue, 17 September 2013, 12:11:17
So for those with 808 experience is it worth it to get the holder? What about getting extra nozzles, valves, cleaning pins, etc?

I wish I'd spent the money on the holder and I keep 2 - 4 nozzles at hand at all times.  Also, look into something that can switch the gun off/on as it doesn't have a switch for the heater.

What holder do you recommend?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 September 2013, 12:12:47
use a lamp cord switch as a power switch. hardware store 0.5USD
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 17 September 2013, 12:17:10
I'm considering getting this

 Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station
   
Hakko 633-02 Iron Holder with Sponge    <- I'm guessing you can take out the tray for the sponge and insert the 599B

Hakko 808-KIT/P Desoldering Kit    

Hakko 599B-02 Waterless Tip Cleaner    
* FREE!

Comes out to ~$247 and I could always sell the Hakko 888 I already have.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 September 2013, 12:28:29
unless you need to do a lot of desoldering, save your money and get a (GH EDITION YAAAAA) soldapullt.

also, i may be totally alone here, but the brass tip cleaner just don't get the job does like sponges do when you're tinning.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 17 September 2013, 12:49:58
unless you need to do a lot of desoldering, save your money and get a (GH EDITION YAAAAA) soldapullt.

also, i may be totally alone here, but the brass tip cleaner just don't get the job does like sponges do when you're tinning.

What is this save money business!! This is wallethack ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: korrelate on Tue, 17 September 2013, 14:55:26
I'll tell you what, that Hakko 808 is the bees knees. I had zero experience desoldering before I got that thing, and after watching a couple of videos and a careful read of the instructions I harvested all of the reds off my Filco TK MJ2 in about two and a half hours. The first 52 keys were a lot harder than the last 52. In the first 52 keys I was leaving quite a bit of solder in many of the through-holes. My performance was pretty hit-or miss, but about half way through the board my familiarity with the tool and the board increased, I made much fewer mistakes and my confidence shot right up. Went back and cleared all of the holes that I screwed up initially and at the end of the day the board looked amazing.

I did manage to pull a pin out of two of the switches, though: one was already broken by me back when I was trying to determine whether or not my switch tops were removable (LOL, they weren't) and the other: I thought I had removed all of the solder but I clearly didn't.

I bet if I would have raised the temp on the gun I could have gotten through it faster, but I didn't want to attempt that coming from a zero experience background.

Also pulled the leds (much smaller leads & through-holes than the switches) at stock temp with stock tip - no problems.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 17 September 2013, 16:01:11
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


Oh gawd... This deal is so good... I wonder if they'll have this deal up for another week!!!... this or the $30 Yihua 936 :)) ;asoijg;owijg;owajgo;wjig;aoije Either way, I'll need to replace my broken one by the end of the month.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 17 September 2013, 16:47:16
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


Oh gawd... This deal is so good... I wonder if they'll have this deal up for another week!!!... this or the $30 Yihua 936 :)) ;asoijg;owijg;owajgo;wjig;aoije Either way, I'll need to replace my broken one by the end of the month.
Shows up as $91.35 and then like $35 shipping for me. Maybe it's because I'm in Canada, I don't know.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Tue, 17 September 2013, 17:28:18
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


Oh gawd... This deal is so good... I wonder if they'll have this deal up for another week!!!... this or the $30 Yihua 936 :)) ;asoijg;owijg;owajgo;wjig;aoije Either way, I'll need to replace my broken one by the end of the month.
Shows up as $91.35 and then like $35 shipping for me. Maybe it's because I'm in Canada, I don't know.

:( That's no good. I get $77.65 with the free shipping option. Now I'm starting to feel bad for not having purchased this already while having the option to :)) *sigh* going to have to think about this harddddd.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Tue, 17 September 2013, 17:41:29
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


Oh gawd... This deal is so good... I wonder if they'll have this deal up for another week!!!... this or the $30 Yihua 936 :)) ;asoijg;owijg;owajgo;wjig;aoije Either way, I'll need to replace my broken one by the end of the month.
Shows up as $91.35 and then like $35 shipping for me. Maybe it's because I'm in Canada, I don't know.

You only see the price reduction when you look at your cart, buy yea, the shipping to Canada is 35$ and they say we have to call them to get this option... Well, after shipping, it's the same price as ebay for me. Still a good price, but not the same deal for Canadians!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Tue, 17 September 2013, 18:16:43
Not a great find, but a milestone for me personally.

[attach=1]
Desoldered my first switches.   ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Wed, 18 September 2013, 07:13:11
My wife and I have been sharing an office since we moved into this house, but I'm starting to get into soldering and the like so I'm in need of another desk, a shelf, and more room... so she has agreed to give me my own office in the house (since she doesn't use this one very often anyway). MAN CAVE INCOMING!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 18 September 2013, 12:47:15
My wife and I have been sharing an office since we moved into this house, but I'm starting to get into soldering and the like so I'm in need of another desk, a shelf, and more room... so she has agreed to give me my own office in the house (since she doesn't use this one very often anyway). MAN CAVE INCOMING!

Be real man.  Build your own desk.

There's a build in this thread for one in fact.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Wed, 18 September 2013, 12:53:18
My wife and I have been sharing an office since we moved into this house, but I'm starting to get into soldering and the like so I'm in need of another desk, a shelf, and more room... so she has agreed to give me my own office in the house (since she doesn't use this one very often anyway). MAN CAVE INCOMING!

Be real man.  Build your own desk.

There's a build in this thread for one in fact.

I was recently thinking about building my own. But i had to put mine to trash sooner than expected and decided to use my folding table from costco temporarily. Then I realised that this foldable table was exactly the same dimension as the one I wanted to build, and foldable and cheap and solid. I decided to just keep this one for my setup and buy a new one! 46$ for the "almost perfect" table is damn nice. Not the most pretty, but damn it!

[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Wed, 18 September 2013, 13:58:24
I will be getting one from goodwill. Probably.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Wed, 18 September 2013, 16:57:27
I really hope this thread is not what discouraged someone from attempting their project, even if all they could afford was a $15 RadioShack soldering pencil.
...
The thing is, for $30 shipped, the Yihua is far and away better than trying to learn to solder with only a pencil iron.

It wasn't this thread, but it was people sounding like people in this thread.

Also its $45 shipped for me...which sucks. :(

Hmm, I wonder if you didn't choose the USA Warehouse location at HobbyKing.com. It only showed $27.33 shipped via UPS for me.

But don't buy one, pixel5. You should have a gift from me arriving to your address in a couple weeks. It usually takes that long for them to get it packed and shipped, then via ground to your door. Anyway, it's the least I can do for a fellow TTU alum.

Dude I didn't even see this post until right now, I get to my house after work today and I see a box on my porch and i'm like ..."What?".

I start searching my Wells Fargo online account for purchases. I DONT EVEN DRINK I KNOW I DIDNT MAKE A DRUNK PURCHASE?! I started searching back through this thread and sure enough. Shows how much I pay attention. Was freaking out man.

Thanks for an awesome birthday gift, JDcarpe. You shouldn't have, but you rock.

EDIT: I look like a total jerk, it looks like I just ignored his post 8 days ago. I have the be the most oblivious person on the planet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:10:22
I really hope this thread is not what discouraged someone from attempting their project, even if all they could afford was a $15 RadioShack soldering pencil.
...
The thing is, for $30 shipped, the Yihua is far and away better than trying to learn to solder with only a pencil iron.

It wasn't this thread, but it was people sounding like people in this thread.

Also its $45 shipped for me...which sucks. :(

Hmm, I wonder if you didn't choose the USA Warehouse location at HobbyKing.com. It only showed $27.33 shipped via UPS for me.

But don't buy one, pixel5. You should have a gift from me arriving to your address in a couple weeks. It usually takes that long for them to get it packed and shipped, then via ground to your door. Anyway, it's the least I can do for a fellow TTU alum.

Dude I didn't even see this post until right now, I get to my house after work today and I see a box on my porch and i'm like ..."What?".

I start searching my Wells Fargo online account for purchases. I DONT EVEN DRINK I KNOW I DIDNT MAKE A DRUNK PURCHASE?! I started searching back through this thread and sure enough. Shows how much I pay attention. Was freaking out man.

Thanks for an awesome birthday gift, JDcarpe. You shouldn't have, but you rock.

EDIT: I look like a total jerk, it looks like I just ignored his post 8 days ago. I have the be the most oblivious person on the planet.

Glad it arrived safely! I hope you like it. And don't forget to order some replacement tips. I recommend these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/321178739681). :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:17:04
yep, throw the hakko tips on. the fake tips are junk!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:19:48
My soldapullt was kinda hurting my palm after using it for a long time so I added some sugru. Feels much nicer now.

(http://i.imgur.com/Jnut8yc.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:24:22
yep, throw the hakko tips on. the fake tips are junk!

In what way are they junk? I'm not an expert on this stuff quite yet. If I need to solder before I get a new tip in, is the stock one just completely unusable?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:28:53
yep, throw the hakko tips on. the fake tips are junk!

In what way are they junk? I'm not an expert on this stuff quite yet. If I need to solder before I get a new tip in, is the stock one just completely unusable?

they're usable, but the hakko tips conduct heat much more readily, have a more consistent shape, and last a lot longer.

My soldapullt was kinda hurting my palm after using it for a long time so I added some sugru. Feels much nicer now.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Jnut8yc.jpg)

ooooooooooh, that's nice. thinking...

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:36:15
yep, throw the hakko tips on. the fake tips are junk!

In what way are they junk? I'm not an expert on this stuff quite yet. If I need to solder before I get a new tip in, is the stock one just completely unusable?

The tip mine came with was a 0.8mm chisel tip, or a conical tip, I can't tell which, but I never soldered anything with it. It's too pointy to transfer much heat.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Defying on Wed, 18 September 2013, 17:43:30
My wife and I have been sharing an office since we moved into this house, but I'm starting to get into soldering and the like so I'm in need of another desk, a shelf, and more room... so she has agreed to give me my own office in the house (since she doesn't use this one very often anyway). MAN CAVE INCOMING!

Be real man.  Build your own desk.

There's a build in this thread for one in fact.

I was recently thinking about building my own. But i had to put mine to trash sooner than expected and decided to use my folding table from costco temporarily. Then I realised that this foldable table was exactly the same dimension as the one I wanted to build, and foldable and cheap and solid. I decided to just keep this one for my setup and buy a new one! 46$ for the "almost perfect" table is damn nice. Not the most pretty, but damn it!

(Attachment Link)
I got that exact same table from Costco for $35. Works really nicely and it was a lot bigger than I expected.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Wed, 18 September 2013, 18:36:52
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


For the other Canadians that would have been interesting to get this soldering station but considered the shipping too much, well I contacted their support today (after I got a mail from their sales cause I had left my cart with something in it) and they should come back to me tomorrow if they find a cheaper way to send it. I will post the answer tomorrow! "crossing fingers" that they manage to find something more interesting than 35$!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Wed, 18 September 2013, 18:55:48
Just found a desk at Goodwill for $11. Needed something cheap that I could mess up on. Woo.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Thu, 19 September 2013, 09:32:46
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


For the other Canadians that would have been interesting to get this soldering station but considered the shipping too much, well I contacted their support today (after I got a mail from their sales cause I had left my cart with something in it) and they should come back to me tomorrow if they find a cheaper way to send it. I will post the answer tomorrow! "crossing fingers" that they manage to find something more interesting than 35$!

Just got the answer that 35$ is the cheapest option for the station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 19 September 2013, 09:56:02
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


For the other Canadians that would have been interesting to get this soldering station but considered the shipping too much, well I contacted their support today (after I got a mail from their sales cause I had left my cart with something in it) and they should come back to me tomorrow if they find a cheaper way to send it. I will post the answer tomorrow! "crossing fingers" that they manage to find something more interesting than 35$!

Just got the answer that 35$ is the cheapest option for the station.

Yeah, the days of cheap international shipping from the US are definitely over.

I guess the USPS has never heard of NAFTA. :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 19 September 2013, 16:14:04
So for those with 808 experience is it worth it to get the holder? What about getting extra nozzles, valves, cleaning pins, etc?

I wish I'd spent the money on the holder and I keep 2 - 4 nozzles at hand at all times.  Also, look into something that can switch the gun off/on as it doesn't have a switch for the heater.

What holder do you recommend?

^^ Anyone with an 808 and a holder can answer this??

Some reviews imply the 633 series are a little light and hakko has the 607 listed on their site as an option.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Thu, 19 September 2013, 17:31:16
$11 desk in my new mancave/office-to-myself. LOOK MY BOXES FIT PERFECTLY IN THOSE SLOTS ON THE DESK HNNNG.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8355692/soldering_Staion.JPG)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 19 September 2013, 17:41:52
I was curious about a rough cost/benefit analysis for the Hakko desoldering gun.

a. Let's say that the going rate to desolder a full-size keyboard is around $20 - excluding shipping costs.  [I'm basing this on GH listers posting rates of $40 to swap switches...]

b. B+D Enterprises has the Hakko 808 (Kit P) for $152.13 (after discounts, and I think free shipping is an option)

So is it a reasonable assumption that if I eventually desolder a total of eight keyboards, at that point it will become cheaper to buy a Hakko 808 than to pay someone to do this for me?  Or is my math completely off?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Thu, 19 September 2013, 18:15:49
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


For the other Canadians that would have been interesting to get this soldering station but considered the shipping too much, well I contacted their support today (after I got a mail from their sales cause I had left my cart with something in it) and they should come back to me tomorrow if they find a cheaper way to send it. I will post the answer tomorrow! "crossing fingers" that they manage to find something more interesting than 35$!

Just got the answer that 35$ is the cheapest option for the station.

Yeah, the days of cheap international shipping from the US are definitely over.

I guess the USPS has never heard of NAFTA. :P

Yea, sadly, they were over just by the time I discovered buying online...

On another note, The B+D sales "automatically" sent me a mail giving me a 5% rebate because my order was still in the cart and I had not bought it yet. I might pull the trigger even with 35$ shipping since anyway it's still the best option to get one. If one of you is interested in one, try to put it in your cart and leave it there for a few days!  :cool:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 19 September 2013, 18:56:45
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


For the other Canadians that would have been interesting to get this soldering station but considered the shipping too much, well I contacted their support today (after I got a mail from their sales cause I had left my cart with something in it) and they should come back to me tomorrow if they find a cheaper way to send it. I will post the answer tomorrow! "crossing fingers" that they manage to find something more interesting than 35$!

Just got the answer that 35$ is the cheapest option for the station.

Yeah, the days of cheap international shipping from the US are definitely over.

I guess the USPS has never heard of NAFTA. :P

Yea, sadly, they were over just by the time I discovered buying online...

On another note, The B+D sales "automatically" sent me a mail giving me a 5% rebate because my order was still in the cart and I had not bought it yet. I might pull the trigger even with 35$ shipping since anyway it's still the best option to get one. If one of you is interested in one, try to put it in your cart and leave it there for a few days!  :cool:
If you are interested, I know of a place selling the FX888D for $110 shipped inside Canada.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Thu, 19 September 2013, 19:07:55
I don't know if this belongs here on in Great Finds, but this is specific to soldering, so I'll post it here.

From B+D Enterprises:

Quote
For a limited time, we're giving away a free Hakko Waterless Tip Cleaner (item 599B - retail value $9.47) with every order over $25. Don't forget, we're also having a sale of 15% off all Hakko items for a few more days as well. Well, isn't that a coincidence?

Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fx888d-digital-soldering-station.html)

$77.65 plus shipping for a Hakko FX-888D and a 599B waterless tip cleaner. I've purchased from B+D before, and I can recommend them without reservation.

Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/x/fx888d_bdentinc.jpg)
Show Image
(http://www.bdent.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/c/screen_shot_2013-08-08_at_1.35.08_pm.png)


For the other Canadians that would have been interesting to get this soldering station but considered the shipping too much, well I contacted their support today (after I got a mail from their sales cause I had left my cart with something in it) and they should come back to me tomorrow if they find a cheaper way to send it. I will post the answer tomorrow! "crossing fingers" that they manage to find something more interesting than 35$!

Just got the answer that 35$ is the cheapest option for the station.

Yeah, the days of cheap international shipping from the US are definitely over.

I guess the USPS has never heard of NAFTA. :P

Yea, sadly, they were over just by the time I discovered buying online...

On another note, The B+D sales "automatically" sent me a mail giving me a 5% rebate because my order was still in the cart and I had not bought it yet. I might pull the trigger even with 35$ shipping since anyway it's still the best option to get one. If one of you is interested in one, try to put it in your cart and leave it there for a few days!  :cool:
If you are interested, I know of a place selling the FX888D for $110 shipped inside Canada.

Thx for the offer, but, unless I get a surprise at checkout, it should be cheaper with B+D since they have a 15% off and I got an additional 5% offer. Even with the shipping it should be around 100$ shipped, maybe 105 at most. And ebay has some for that price too. But if I need it I will pm you!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 19 September 2013, 19:24:02
I was curious about a rough cost/benefit analysis for the Hakko desoldering gun.

a. Let's say that the going rate to desolder a full-size keyboard is around $20 - excluding shipping costs.  [I'm basing this on GH listers posting rates of $40 to swap switches...]

b. B+D Enterprises has the Hakko 808 (Kit P) for $152.13 (after discounts, and I think free shipping is an option)

So is it a reasonable assumption that if I eventually desolder a total of eight keyboards, at that point it will become cheaper to buy a Hakko 808 than to pay someone to do this for me?  Or is my math completely off?

I'm leaning towards getting the 808, an extra tip and a holder. Just need to decide which holder.

And if you put stuff in your cart and let it sit they send that extra 5% coupon.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 19 September 2013, 19:29:34
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 19 September 2013, 19:39:24
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)

The biggest decision is do i stay with the 888 or go all in for the 888d.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 September 2013, 00:04:22
not worth it unless you need to calibrate for some reason
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 20 September 2013, 00:05:49
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)

The biggest decision is do i stay with the 888 or go all in for the 888d.

I got the D cheaper than the normal one, so I got the D.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VesperSAINT on Fri, 20 September 2013, 02:02:51
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)

Well ****... this just makes things harder :)) Let's see if they send me this extra 5% off coupon.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 September 2013, 10:30:44
binge, the 808 fits quick well in the 633. it is, of course, very bulky at the rear, but the front slots in perfectly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 20 September 2013, 10:38:31
I got the D cheaper than the normal one, so I got the D.

(http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/1/11/If_you_know_what_I_mean_.png)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 20 September 2013, 10:45:59
binge, the 808 fits quick well in the 633. it is, of course, very bulky at the rear, but the front slots in perfectly.

clearly I need to edit my avatar haha
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 September 2013, 11:07:48
ahahahaha i just noticed that
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Fri, 20 September 2013, 11:20:37
Hi,

I also plan to buy the Hakko FX 888D + 808. I can't find these in europe, and the -15% almost covers the $55 shipping costs.

Code: [Select]
Hakko FX888D Digital Soldering Station $91.35
Hakko 7-SA Tweezer $5.17
Hakko 808-KIT/P Desoldering Kit $178.98
Hakko 599B-02 Waterless Tip Cleaner $0.00

Subtotal $275.50
Discount (Free 599B with any order over $25, 15% off all Hakko Products) -$41.33
Shipping & Handling (International Shipping - International Flat Rate) $54.95
Tax $0.00
Grand Total $289.12

But they don't have the Hakko 900M-T-1.6D tips jdcarpe recommended :(

I'll wait 2 days, I hope i'll also get the -5% deal :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 September 2013, 11:31:14
But they don't have the Hakko 900M-T-1.6D tips jdcarpe recommended :(

I only recommend those for the Yihua 936. :)

For a Hakko FX-888D, you want T18-D16 tips. (which I also think they don't have lol)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Fri, 20 September 2013, 12:39:34
But they don't have the Hakko 900M-T-1.6D tips jdcarpe recommended :(

I only recommend those for the Yihua 936. :)

For a Hakko FX-888D, you want T18-D16 tips. (which I also think they don't have lol)

If both tips are compatible with both soldering stations, may I ask why is one tip better for the first station and the other one better for the second station?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Fri, 20 September 2013, 14:35:56
Well, I finally pulled the trigger on the Hakko 888D. And cutters and flux remover and a cable, why not!

At least, that's a long term investment (gotta justify it someway).

Btw, this B+D support is super nice. They answered my 3 mails in the last 2 days with some nice customer service!

Edit: And now I REALLY need to put my hands on a GH60 pcb!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:01:48
Btw, this B+D support is super nice. They answered my 3 mails in the last 2 days with some nice customer service!

My country wasn't in their list (Luxemburg). I mailed them, I got an answer 13min later: their developer had updated the countries list :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:17:21
That tip that jd recommended to me shipped today. Can't wait. I need to attempt to fix my left control on my poker now that i've got more experience soldering. I probably need to pick up some flux.

Is there anything at radio shack worth getting?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:18:13
That tip that jd recommended to me shipped today. Can't wait. I need to attempt to fix my left control on my poker now that i've got more experience soldering. I probably need to pick up some flux.

Is there anything at radio shack worth getting?

Panavise and a Brass Tip Cleaner.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 20 September 2013, 15:26:45
That tip that jd recommended to me shipped today. Can't wait. I need to attempt to fix my left control on my poker now that i've got more experience soldering. I probably need to pick up some flux.

Is there anything at radio shack worth getting?

Panavise and a Brass Tip Cleaner.

I meant in the way of flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 September 2013, 16:37:18
But they don't have the Hakko 900M-T-1.6D tips jdcarpe recommended :(

I only recommend those for the Yihua 936. :)

For a Hakko FX-888D, you want T18-D16 tips. (which I also think they don't have lol)

If both tips are compatible with both soldering stations, may I ask why is one tip better for the first station and the other one better for the second station?

They aren't compatible with both. The Yihua 936 is a clone of the Hakko 936, which is a totally different animal than the FX-888D.

The Hakko 936 uses a Hakko 907 iron, and 900M-T-xxx tips.

The Hakko FX-888D uses a Hakko FX-8801 iron, and T18-xxx tips.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Fri, 20 September 2013, 19:49:47
Has anyone used Nexxtech soldering irons and have any constructive (or not so constructive) criticism regarding them?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Sat, 21 September 2013, 07:37:55
They aren't compatible with both. The Yihua 936 is a clone of the Hakko 936, which is a totally different animal than the FX-888D.

The Hakko 936 uses a Hakko 907 iron, and 900M-T-xxx tips.

The Hakko FX-888D uses a Hakko FX-8801 iron, and T18-xxx tips.

Makes sense, thanks :)

Also, for beginners here is an interesting video guide
feature=share&list=TLW565TLU1NHI

It summarizes a lot of tips discussed in this thread.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:28:27
Well, I finally pulled the trigger on the Hakko 888D. And cutters and flux remover and a cable, why not!

At least, that's a long term investment (gotta justify it someway).

Btw, this B+D support is super nice. They answered my 3 mails in the last 2 days with some nice customer service!

Edit: And now I REALLY need to put my hands on a GH60 pcb!

Looks like the B+D Hako sale is over.  I got a reminder that I'd left stuff in my shopping cart, logged in to see that the Hakko 808 listed with free solder scrubber, but no discount (or 5% discount coupon...).  Guess I waited too long!  (There was a note that I could save 13% if I ordered 200 units...   :eek: )

Their list price for the Hakko 808 is now within a couple of bucks of Amazon's price, and I get free 2-day shipping on Amazon, so that's probably the route I'll take. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:30:14
Well, I finally pulled the trigger on the Hakko 888D. And cutters and flux remover and a cable, why not!

At least, that's a long term investment (gotta justify it someway).

Btw, this B+D support is super nice. They answered my 3 mails in the last 2 days with some nice customer service!

Edit: And now I REALLY need to put my hands on a GH60 pcb!

Looks like the B+D Hako sale is over.  I got a reminder that I'd left stuff in my shopping cart, logged in to see that the Hakko 808 listed with free solder scrubber, but no discount (or 5% discount coupon...).  Guess I waited too long!  (There was a note that I could save 13% if I ordered 200 units...   :eek: )

Their list price for the Hakko 808 is now within a couple of bucks of Amazon's price, and I get free 2-day shipping on Amazon, so that's probably the route I'll take. 

I think you can use coupon code 15OFF and the 5% they email you to still get 20% off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:32:54
unless you plan on desoldering a LOT, i would recommend just going with a soldapullt. they're effective and an order of magnitude less money.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:37:57
unless you plan on desoldering a LOT, i would recommend just going with a soldapullt. they're effective and an order of magnitude less money.

But I want to desolder EVERYTHING :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:39:27
unless you plan on desoldering a LOT, i would recommend just going with a soldapullt. they're effective and an order of magnitude less money.

But I want to desolder EVERYTHING :eek:

If you get an 808, you WILL desolder everything.

To be honest, I love my 808, but it's a pain to drag that huge gun out for just a few joints, and I end up using the Soldapullt. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:41:01
unless you plan on desoldering a LOT, i would recommend just going with a soldapullt. they're effective and an order of magnitude less money.

But I want to desolder EVERYTHING :eek:

If you get an 808, you WILL desolder everything.

To be honest, I love my 808, but it's a pain to drag that huge gun out for just a few joints, and I end up using the Soldapullt. :)

Well I've got a few old monsters I want to desolder they have over 100 switches each. One isn't even mx but I want to experiment with it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Mon, 23 September 2013, 10:49:59
I've got a G80-3000 PCB that I want to add a plate to, the donor plate to come from another complete board.  And anotherr board I want to remove the PCB from to try a hardwiring project.  So I've got about 310 switches to desolder, plus 104 to solder back on.  I've done a dozen or so switches using the Radio Shack "Vacuum Desoldering Tool," plus braid to get some remaining solder out of the PCB holes, and it's been a painful process. 

The discount code did work, thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 23 September 2013, 11:41:01
Desoldered 6 fullsize boards with a cheap desoldering iron designed like the soldapult but with an iron tip that melts the solder.

Someone want to save me and gift a 808 :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Mon, 23 September 2013, 13:40:06
Had my first experience with soldering yesterday. Well, first experience since I was in the 7th grade. I was using a cheap Weller 25W and the solder that came with it. I had a spare instrument tuner laying around so I attempted to completely desolder the pcb and then resolder it and pray it worked. It took a few hours to complete, but to my surprise, the thing actually worked after I put it back together! The pcb looked pretty bad after I was done with it; rosin residue was everywhere. Only problem was that the LEDs weren't working, and I'm unsure if it's because I put them in the wrong way, or if the heat just completely messed them up. All in all, it was a good experience, and the $20 iron held up pretty well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Tue, 24 September 2013, 17:19:28
Got that new tip in today. Wow, what a difference. Glad I got it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 24 September 2013, 17:37:46
Got that new tip in today. Wow, what a difference. Glad I got it.

:thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thimplum on Tue, 24 September 2013, 18:47:12
Desoldered 6 fullsize boards with a cheap desoldering iron designed like the soldapult but with an iron tip that melts the solder.

Someone want to save me and gift a 808 :p

Can you get 'em in India?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 26 September 2013, 07:57:59
Got the Hakko 808 in yesterday, and tried it out for a few hours...   :-X

So far it's worked well on a new-ish G80-3000 PCB, desoldered all 104(?) switches in less than an hour.  Also desoldered some switches on a Televideo PCB and a Marquardt keyboard, these did not go as smoothly. 

The Futuba switches have thick pins, as they are also screws to hold the switch together, that plus the PCB is pretty thick as well made for slow going.  Solder would melt on the surface, engaging the vacuum pulled up most of it, but there was usually a residue left that I couldn't extract. 

The Marquardt board was better, but there they installed the switch diodes with one leg bent over and soldered flat, which meant I had to desolder them once, straighten out the wire, and desolder them a second time, with varying degrees of success. 

I left the 808 temp on the default setting, should I increase the temperature when working on these thicker PCBs?  Or is this a common issue with older solder?  Should I look into a really thin tip for the Hakko, to get down into the PCB holes?

I'm guessing the Marquardt and Televideo boards used lead solder, the G80 has a RoH sticker on it so I'm assuming it's lead-free. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 26 September 2013, 10:35:22
I find the 808 gets plenty hot for leaded solder at nearly the lowest temp setting. However, for thicker pcbs and pins one should use a slightly higher temp setting. Usually the reason why solder is not extracted has to do with technique rather than temperature, though.

What I usually do is get a bit of solder on the tip first to make sure it's hot enough, then press firmly against the solder that I'm extracting at a 90 degree angle, and move the 808 in a circular motion against the pcb while holding the vacuum button. This wiggles the pin as well, making sure it doesn't get stuck against the side of the TH. If it's a difficult one, such as stranded wire lying flat or curved, or solder remaining in the hole, I add more solder to the joint, then extract again. You only want to use the thin 808 tips for small pins that are very tightly spaced - they are not for use inside of actual holes. Never use a tip that is either much larger than the TH pad or smaller - it should be about similar size, otherwise you will have too little or too much thermal mass, leading to bad results.

Some of the related Pace videos I linked earlier cover the solder vacuum extraction thoroughly - they were the ones that invented the concept after all!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 26 September 2013, 10:44:43
Thanks for the tips!  I'll try increasing the temp just a tad, and trying to perfect the circular desoldering technique.  I had been doing that on some of the pins, but managed to pull off three pads on the G80 PCB (keenly unfortunate since this is the one I'm planning on reusing).  The Marquardt and Televideo PCBs are mostly for practice.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Thu, 26 September 2013, 10:54:46
I get to desolder 104 red switches today. Awww yiss.

I'm addicted.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 26 September 2013, 11:25:16
Thanks for the tips!  I'll try increasing the temp just a tad, and trying to perfect the circular desoldering technique.  I had been doing that on some of the pins, but managed to pull off three pads on the G80 PCB (keenly unfortunate since this is the one I'm planning on reusing).  The Marquardt and Televideo PCBs are mostly for practice.

You have to be in and out in 3 seconds or less, ideally, in order to not lift pads. For PCBs like G80, which are typically one sided and leaded, you want to use very low temperatures. Single sided pcbs only have the pad on one side, unconnected by plating to a pad on the other side like in double sided boards. This means that it's that much easier to lift it, and much easier to get a melt going since there's less copper and dissipative area.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 26 September 2013, 12:56:08
i'm demoing our closest approximation to a "learn to solder" soldering pencil next week i believe courtesy edsyn. the goal behind this project will be to create an iron that teaches you how not to kill pads or make bad joints. i've realized that even though i keep recommending the 888d. it's an ideal iron for_me_, not necessarily for someone just getting into soldering. it is _really_ easy to break stuff with an 888d.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 27 September 2013, 10:02:51
Got those 104 switches desoldered and deplated in just under an hour yesterday. Solder-sucking is an art.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 27 September 2013, 10:08:28
Got those 104 switches desoldered and deplated in just under an hour yesterday. Solder-sucking is an art.

What tool did you use? That's pretty good time! And yes, it definitely is an art.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 27 September 2013, 10:10:19
Got those 104 switches desoldered and deplated in just under an hour yesterday. Solder-sucking is an art.

What tool did you use? That's pretty good time! And yes, it definitely is an art.

Just a piston-style tube sucker from radioshack.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pixel5 on Fri, 27 September 2013, 14:24:24
I could desolder the diodes on it too... would take a lot longer than the switches did because the wires are bent onto the pads. I'd be saving $6 if I ever needed them. Is it worth it? Am I going to pull my hair out trying it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 27 September 2013, 16:39:54
I could desolder the diodes on it too... would take a lot longer than the switches did because the wires are bent onto the pads. I'd be saving $6 if I ever needed them. Is it worth it? Am I going to pull my hair out trying it?
no and yes respectively.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Grobalo on Sat, 28 September 2013, 16:57:06
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)

Well ****... this just makes things harder :)) Let's see if they send me this extra 5% off coupon.

For those who were interested in buying the Hakko fx888 from B+D. I emailed them, and in the end, it's unfortunatly not possible to combine discounts.

But I pointed them at this thread and we'll maybe get a special promotion:

Quote from: brian from bdent.com
Thanks again for shopping at B+D, we appreciate it. Based on your email I'll work on putting together a special promotion exclusive to the geekhack.org forum members. Look for that soon.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that they've added hakko T18-D* chisel tips to their shop!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Sat, 28 September 2013, 16:58:18
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)

Well ****... this just makes things harder :)) Let's see if they send me this extra 5% off coupon.

For those who were interested in buying the Hakko fx888 from B+D. I emailed them, and in the end, it's unfortunatly not possible to combine discounts.

But I pointed them at this thread and we'll maybe get a special promotion:

Quote from: brian from bdent.com
Thanks again for shopping at B+D, we appreciate it. Based on your email I'll work on putting together a special promotion exclusive to the geekhack.org forum members. Look for that soon.
This is an awesome thing to hear.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 28 September 2013, 17:14:50
wow, another 5%? methinks someone overstocked on hakko goods ;)

Well ****... this just makes things harder :)) Let's see if they send me this extra 5% off coupon.

For those who were interested in buying the Hakko fx888 from B+D. I emailed them, and in the end, it's unfortunatly not possible to combine discounts.

But I pointed them at this thread and we'll maybe get a special promotion:

Quote from: brian from bdent.com
Thanks again for shopping at B+D, we appreciate it. Based on your email I'll work on putting together a special promotion exclusive to the geekhack.org forum members. Look for that soon.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that they've added hakko T18-D* chisel tips to their shop!

That is excellent work! Edsyn, now maybe Hakko via B+D. Maybe get mkawa to correspond further (He be good at wooing vendors)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Sat, 28 September 2013, 22:25:05
Excellent news on the FX-888!  Although I'm still learning on the Aoyue, I still keep eying that Hakko...

Desoldered the remaining switches on the Televideo PCB, even though I did tear off some pads in the process.

[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]

Next step; practice soldering diodes for a hardwired keyboard.  Still waiting for the Teensy to arrive, while I'm waiting I'm planning to paint the plate, Retr0brite the case, lube the switches, etc. 

Got two more Televideo keyboards to experiment on, beautiful keycaps with zero wear.  Seller says they were stored on a shelf, never used.  Cases are yellowed, and they're dusty, but no signs of wear, so story could be true.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: korrelate on Sun, 29 September 2013, 04:11:23
i'm demoing our closest approximation to a "learn to solder" soldering pencil next week i believe courtesy edsyn. the goal behind this project will be to create an iron that teaches you how not to kill pads or make bad joints. i've realized that even though i keep recommending the 888d. it's an ideal iron for_me_, not necessarily for someone just getting into soldering. it is _really_ easy to break stuff with an 888d.

Hey mkawa, can you provide a couple of examples of "_really_ easy to break stuff with an 888d?" It's been a long time since I've soldered anything, but I'm jumping right back into the deep end with a couple of projects:

1. transplanting the browns in my leo to my newly desoldered Filco.
2. planting my newly acquired clears in my TrikX.

Cheers,

K
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 September 2013, 09:43:12
stranded wires, especially large gauge wires, will sink all the power that the hakko offers and all then all the solder you offer the joint will just flow into the wire and then you'll have a bad day

you can easily fry ICs by putting too much power into a big fat ground plane pad on the other side of the pcb

oxidized tips are bad. lots of power plus an oxidized tip is really really bad. temperature control is measured at the heater not the tip.

lots of power means lots of responsibility when working with sensitive devices. soldering basics are that much more important. that is, unless you _enjoy_ melting plastic and frying ICs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: korrelate on Sun, 29 September 2013, 11:42:44
stranded wires, especially large gauge wires, will sink all the power that the hakko offers and all then all the solder you offer the joint will just flow into the wire and then you'll have a bad day

you can easily fry ICs by putting too much power into a big fat ground plane pad on the other side of the pcb

oxidized tips are bad. lots of power plus an oxidized tip is really really bad. temperature control is measured at the heater not the tip.

lots of power means lots of responsibility when working with sensitive devices. soldering basics are that much more important. that is, unless you _enjoy_ melting plastic and frying ICs.

Very helpful. The oxidized tip warning particularly so.

So the thrust of "why a Hakko 888d can be so deadly" boils down to power, correct? Because one has so much power available, one would be tempted to use that power to "power-through" a problem that actually requires more understanding & finesse?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gnubag on Sun, 29 September 2013, 11:59:22
has anyone gone to the Edsyn headquaters and got stuff there?
i am not feeling it, paying $15 for shipping when it is a 20min drive to the HQ if i can save on shipping that way.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 September 2013, 12:18:37
yes, i go there all the time. i'll be there this week to pick up the geeckers stock order, in fact.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 04 October 2013, 11:27:03
Been cruising the thread this week.  Anybody get all their soldering stuff from Fry's?  I poked around their website and they seem to have a lot of the supplies mentioned in this thread.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Fri, 04 October 2013, 12:57:17
Been cruising the thread this week.  Anybody get all their soldering stuff from Fry's?  I poked around their website and they seem to have a lot of the supplies mentioned in this thread.
That is where I get most of my stuff from. Because Fry's is local for me. Radio Shack does not have much to offer these days, otherwise I order online for the rest.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 04 October 2013, 13:16:46
Been cruising the thread this week.  Anybody get all their soldering stuff from Fry's?  I poked around their website and they seem to have a lot of the supplies mentioned in this thread.
fry's is quite evil, but a last resort is a last resort.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 04 October 2013, 14:07:23
Been cruising the thread this week.  Anybody get all their soldering stuff from Fry's?  I poked around their website and they seem to have a lot of the supplies mentioned in this thread.
fry's is quite evil, but a last resort is a last resort.

Not really a last resort, just convenience.  Why is Fry's evil?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 04 October 2013, 18:53:44
here's just the tip of the iceberg

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/23/business/fi-frys23

there's plenty more where that came from
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 04 October 2013, 23:31:17
I need to get a smaller tip for my WLC-100.  I was thinking of getting an ST7 tip to put SMD resistors onto a PCB

(http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/th/content_26/WELLER_B000AS28UC-3-lg.jpg)

But I've seen people recommend 1.6mm (something like ST8) tips as a middle ground for some simple SMD soldering as well as switch soldering.  So I'll try that one, I guess.  I do wonder about the super fine size tips like ST7 and ST5: they must oxidize extremely quickly (according to Amazon reviews).  Perhaps people are just overheating them?  Also, would ST5 and ST6 be preferable to perfectly conical ST7 for SMD work?

And finally, I need a flux pen, and I'm not sure which one I should get.  There are some Rosin-free pens as well as Rosin pens.  Like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0080X79HG/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

Is that good? 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 04 October 2013, 23:35:04
would you go with an st5 for wipe soldering or stick with a chisel (you can also wipe with a chisel, although the cup can be convenient) and get an st6 for general purpose small surface area stuff. if you don't have an st1, that's the way to go for general purpose soldering. that would be equivalent to the d16 hakko tip that is the go to tip for 99% of 888 usage
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 05 October 2013, 00:10:40
Okay, so ST1 for general purpose.  I could probably use it to add resistors as well (I think that's about what WFD used for his SMD solvering video). 
Any recommendations for a type of flux pen? :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 05 October 2013, 06:11:15
as previously said in the thread, i like MG chemicals RA rosin liquid flux. they only make one variant, but it's good. i dispense with a small gauge needle and a bottle -- i have a couple pens, but i prefer to get exactly one drop onto the joint. i would say at a first order though, get a kester kit, and learn to make heat bridges with the active kester flux. one reason why kester 44 is _the best solder_ is because it gives up a lot of very active flux when it melts. you don't need a lot of extra flux unless you're using way expired kester like mine, or you have some particularly tricky and oxidized joints (which should probably be scrubbed with a small, fine stainless brush first instead of using flux).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sat, 05 October 2013, 22:46:26
any recommendation on flux remover? my old one didn't work very well  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Sun, 06 October 2013, 01:38:46
any recommendation on flux remover? my old one didn't work very well  :rolleyes:

Isopropyl alcohol + lint free cloth or ESD brush works pretty well for me
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jonathanyu on Sun, 06 October 2013, 08:52:27
any recommendation on flux remover? my old one didn't work very well  :rolleyes:

Isopropyl alcohol + lint free cloth or ESD brush works pretty well for me
:) thanks, I will it
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 08 October 2013, 12:45:25
This will be a short overview of my experiences with the Yihua 936 which is often recommended around here. I bought a few to save shipping and got a few friends to get them as well. I got two myself and one arrived broken. The led just flashed once when turned on and then remained off, and it did not get hot. I first thought it was the power unit but I tried the pen in two different units with the same result. I then tried the other pen and it worked, in both units. This meant that it was the pen which was broken in one of the units.

I unscrewed the end and first found a problem which I believed to be the cause. The tip is grounded through a spring which contacts to the metal surface seen in the following picture. This is the second pen which was better:
(http://i.imgur.com/7GFX0HJ.jpg)
As you can see, there metal isn't fully exposed and during the molding some plastic has covered it. This is the second one which was better, and after I had scraped some off. The first one was almost entirely covered.

This didn't fix it though, so I opened it up further and found a cable which was loose and a solder joint which was bad (frankly, several solder joints were very bad.) I fixed it and it now works. I didn't take any pictures during this either but I did take one afterwards on the pen which was never broken to get an idea:
(http://i.imgur.com/8ywwBkN.jpg)
This is when I noticed that the quality of the solder joints differed greatly. The one which was broken was terrible. This one, although a bit bad as you can notice on the yellow wire which sticks out, appears far better made. Some wires are also very close to shorting out other solder joints. You can also see the previously mentioned spring which grounds the tip in this picture.

I started looking for other differences since I had gotten curious and I found that the mantle thing under the tip looked different. Notice how it is completely straight on one of them but bent out on the other:
(http://i.imgur.com/Ij1yeyG.jpg)

The manual was also quite different between the two.
(http://i.imgur.com/yA4x0xn.jpg)

To summarize: I think you get what you pay for, and quite bad build quality as is expected. One was even broken from the very start and I recommend people to open theirs up and ensure that it will keep working longer. They also appear to be made at two different factories or at least by two different people with different quality control.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 08 October 2013, 12:56:16
That said, I do recommend it. It is cheap as hell for what it is. I also just tried some Hakko tips and they are far better than the ones included with the Yihua. I am getting the impression that the tips from the Yihua don't have a copper core or something because they don't seem to conduct heat very well. They didn't melt the solder at the very end but did so a bit closer to the heating element.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 08 October 2013, 13:18:23
Something to be said about fixing bad soldering joints on a soldering iron  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Tue, 08 October 2013, 13:54:02
Yeah, the irony, or solder irony if you will, is perfectly clear to me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Proc31 on Wed, 09 October 2013, 08:45:09
I'm interested in building a phantom board and over the last week I've sourced all the parts needed to create it from all over the place, I'm fairly knowledgeable on the keyboards themselves so I know what goes where etc etc however I'm inexperienced at soldering and do not have any equipment. Is it possible that someone could recommend me some soldering kit so that I can go ahead with my project or at least start practicing for it. At the moment I think I'll need, A soldering iron, some solder and a desoldering pump; is there anything I'm missing? I've read the original thead however all the pricaes are in US and I'm not sure about where to get stuff in the UK or what to get. Thank you for your help.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Wed, 09 October 2013, 09:09:28
I'm interested in building a phantom board and over the last week I've sourced all the parts needed to create it from all over the place, I'm fairly knowledgeable on the keyboards themselves so I know what goes where etc etc however I'm inexperienced at soldering and do not have any equipment. Is it possible that someone could recommend me some soldering kit so that I can go ahead with my project or at least start practicing for it. At the moment I think I'll need, A soldering iron, some solder and a desoldering pump; is there anything I'm missing? I've read the original thead however all the pricaes are in US and I'm not sure about where to get stuff in the UK or what to get. Thank you for your help.

You could look with mkawa and geekhackers. He mentionned he will probably provide a very good yet cheap soldering iron all setup for keyboard soldering. He also already has solder and soldapult for sale. I would start with that (and maybe look for flux locally and things to practice on). Just send mkawa a pm and he will probably answer you quite fast on this!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:09:22
In the absence of a Hakko desoldering iron, is my best option to remove LEDs from swtiches using a braid + flux?  Pretty sure the RadioShack iron will be too large for the job, plus it eats through tips like a hungry orphan through a cheesecake.  Going to be replacing some 87 LEDs soon.

P.S.: I own an old used Soldapullt in good condition, but embarrassingly enough, I haven't mastered it yet.  Or else I really need to grease the o-ring, because it doesn't seem to be doing well at sucking solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:21:28
There's nothing embarrassing about not mastering the solder sucker yet.  You just need to practice, practice, and practice until you get that muscle memory down in your non-dominant hand (or dominant hand if you use the iron in your off hand).  It took me a little while to figure out how to use mine effectively.  Once I got it down, I was blowing my way through boards with it.  On the other hand, I still hate solder wicks since they always seem to take forever for me.

If it's not sucking very well, odds are one of two things are happening. First, you may not be getting the tip over the solder joint properly, so it doesn't have the suction power to pull it up.  Secondly, there may just be too much time between you flowing the solder and getting the Soldapult over the solder.  You pretty much have to have it flowing and immediately have the solder sucker over the joint, sucking the solder away.  A split second too long and the solder will have hardened enough to not come out. 

If you have an old PCB, I'd practice on that.  And don't even start with an iron, just sit there and work on the motion and then motion and speed you need to desolder on some joints.  Once you think you have the motion figured out and have a decent speed, then start practicing with flowing the solder and using the solder sucker.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:22:47
In the absence of a Hakko desoldering iron, is my best option to remove LEDs from swtiches using a braid + flux?  Pretty sure the RadioShack iron will be too large for the job, plus it eats through tips like a hungry orphan through a cheesecake.  Going to be replacing some 87 LEDs soon.

P.S.: I own an old used Soldapullt in good condition, but embarrassingly enough, I haven't mastered it yet.  Or else I really need to grease the o-ring, because it doesn't seem to be doing well at sucking solder.

You do need to grease the o-ring. :D

I have desoldered LEDs using the RadioShack bulb desoldering tool, but it takes some finesse. And always add more solder to the joint before attempting to desolder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:40:58
Thank you, I'll grease the Soldapullt ring and will practice more.  I've desoldered T1 indicator LEDs with the RS iron and a desoldering braid before, but it was a slow process (thanks to my Filco's through-hole copper inserts).  Maybe Soldapullt will help me out this time!

By the way, does anyone know if the PCB in LZ-GH also has through-hole copper inserts for all of the LED holes?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:42:58
Hmm, would it be worth it to wait for the GH edition soldering iron, or should I just get a yihua :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:44:25
By the way, does anyone know if the PCB in LZ-GH also has through-hole copper inserts for all of the LED holes?

I'm almost positive it does. It seemed like they were plated through holes when I was assembling mine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:45:57
By the way, does anyone know if the PCB in LZ-GH also has through-hole copper inserts for all of the LED holes?

I'm almost positive it does. It seemed like they were plated through holes when I was assembling mine.

As I suspected =/  Well, it's going to be one long project!  ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 09 October 2013, 16:54:32
By the way, has anyone tried one of these?  Lots up on eBay, this model and some more expensive versions
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-selling-arrival-S-993A-Electric-Vacuum-Desoldering-Pump-Solder-Sucker-Gun-/321210037659?pt=US_Video_Gaming_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item4ac99c359b

"S-993A Electric Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Gun"
(up to 350C)

Not that I want to spend $90 on one, but it's significantly cheaper than Hakko's desoldering gun (half the price).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 09 October 2013, 17:00:37
By the way, has anyone tried one of these?  Lots up on eBay, this model and some more expensive versions
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-selling-arrival-S-993A-Electric-Vacuum-Desoldering-Pump-Solder-Sucker-Gun-/321210037659?pt=US_Video_Gaming_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item4ac99c359b

"S-993A Electric Vacuum Desoldering Pump Solder Sucker Gun"
(up to 350C)

Not that I want to spend $90 on one, but it's significantly cheaper than Hakko's desoldering gun (half the price).

According to this youtube review of one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H1qRKVbgO4), it's a decent little Hakko clone...unless you drop it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Wed, 09 October 2013, 17:01:36
Yeah, I saw that.  Some listings of Asian soldering stations specifically have "don't drop it" warnings :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 09 October 2013, 22:35:35
Hmm, would it be worth it to wait for the GH edition soldering iron, or should I just get a yihua :P
it looks like the yihua 937 is as low as 45$ shipped? i absolutely cannot beat that. the edsyn cl1481 fixed to kester 44 process temp with a bundle of kester 44 is going to be a much more user friendly way to start soldering than a yihua, and will teach you much much more about how to solder properly than the yihua station, as well as being significantly higher quality and easier to work with, but i categorically will not be able to sell them cheaper than yihuas. that price is ridiculously low.

fwiw my price target is about 60 for the iron (two tips: medium and large and an iron holder) and 4-8$ for the solder (kester packs are in flux right now lolz)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Wed, 09 October 2013, 22:44:59
The Yihua is 936 is even lower mkawa. If you wait on the page at hobbyking for a while it will prompt you with a discount  as well since you have viewed the item for a few minutes. It goes from 16 something USD to 15 something.

Some additional thoughts after having used it for a while: I don't think the temperature input from the tip is very accurate. There was a video review which stated that it was, but there are several signs that it isn't. First of all, it takes seconds from turning it on until the heating stops and it claims to have reached target temperature. The cycling of the heating is weird and does not correlate very well to changing the dial or removing heat from the tip which to me indicates poor contact between the heating element and the tip.

Secondly, and more importantly, I for one can't melt 60/40 (185ish degrees) solder when I have the unit set to 200 degrees. At 260, it barely melts it and I had to go up to 290 to use it. I am going to measure the temp at the tip when I get a hold of a decent device to do so with.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:17:47
Hmm, I might just wait for the cl1481. Being fixed to the kester temp, does that mean that it may be too hot or not hot enough for other applications?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:25:08
Ok, I've got no clue what has happened. Soldered one switch, then realised I had forgot to put in the stabilisers.. Went to desolder.. Some comes out, the rest is solid. It literally WILL NOT MELT. I'm using a chisel tip on a yihua 936, and used kester 44. I've tried loads of heat settings, the yihua melts solder fine.. Just not this stuff that's still stuck there. At this point the pad is ****ed, so I'm not worried about damaging it further. My only two questions are :

1. What the **** happened? Why won't this solder melt? It's as if it's a different material. I put solder ontop, but the heat simply does not transfer to it.. It simply will not melt.
2. How can I get this switch out? As I've said before, the pad is already damaged so it doesn't matter if I have to rip the pad off altogether.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:28:29
Do you mean there's solder inside the holes where the switch pins are?  As in, some filaments along copper inserts?  If so, just get as much solder out as you can and then heat the pins while propping the PCB vertically on its side and then pull on the switch with your other hand from the opposite side.  I normally wedge a flat head screwdriver or similar between the plate and where the switch tabs are and use the screwdriver as a lever.  If you're careful and go slowly, your switch will pop out after you heat up the pins once or twice each.  No damage done, and your switch is safely removed without abusing the PCB for every last bit of solder.  The goal is to melt the solder filaments you can't reach via heating up the pins while simultaneously pulling the switch out.

Hopefully that's it.  I've had to do that with a bunch of switches on Filco PCBs, since those PCBs are double-sided.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:31:46
Do you mean there's solder inside the holes where the switch pins are?  As in, some filaments along copper inserts?  If so, just get as much solder out as you can and then heat the pins while propping the PCB vertically on its side and then pull on the switch with your other hand from the opposite side.  I normally wedge a flat head screwdriver or similar between the plate and where the switch tabs are and use the screwdriver as a lever.  If you're careful and go slowly, your switch will pop out after you heat up the pins once or twice each.  The goal is to melt the solder filaments you can't reach via heating up the pins while simultaneously pulling the switch out.

Hopefully that's it.  I've had to do that with a bunch of switches on Filco PCBs, since those PCBs are double-sided.
It's on the surface. I can make direct contact with it and the soldering iron. It just will not melt no matter what I do.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:34:16
Has your iron gone bad, perhaps?  Can you solder anything with it?  Otherwise, I guess maybe try adding some flux on top of what you're trying to melt.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:36:41
Has your iron gone bad, perhaps?  Can you solder anything with it?  Otherwise, I guess maybe try adding some flux on top of what you're trying to melt.
It's so weird. The iron works perfectly. I can melt solder fine with it. This patch of solder just won't melt. I've tried practically every heat setting, I've tried adding solder to it.. Nothing works.

Now the pad's screwed and I'm not happy :(

At this point I just want the switch out so that I can continue building
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:37:43
Take a picture so someone like mkawa can help?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:39:26
If you have pure flux, I'd put some on top of the joint and try again.  Not sure what else you could do other than that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:39:48
Take a picture so someone like mkawa can help?
There isn't anything to see... It just looks like a regular solder joint (although the pad is a total mess). The solder looks exactly the same as normal solder, it just won't melt. It's really, really weird.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:40:36
Gosh...sorry to hear phobro..maybe some plastic has melted in or something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:43:33
Ah, okay, after holding the iron to it for absolutely ages it melted rapidly and turned brown. That was really peculiar.

Now the pad has caved into the switch hole and there still seems to be solder in there.. *facepalm
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dubsgalore on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:45:48
Ah, okay, after holding the iron to it for absolutely ages it melted rapidly and turned brown. That was really peculiar.

Now the pad has caved into the switch hole and there still seems to be solder in there.. *facepalm

Direct Wiring time...sorry to hear again

the Tek will rise and live soon!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:46:42
So you don't have pure flux to add?  Flux facilitates solder flow.  You've probably burnt through all the flux that was in the solder to start with, so now you have only the metals left.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 11:58:16
Direct Wiring time...sorry to hear again

the Tek will rise and live soon!
Still need to get the switch out...
So you don't have pure flux to add?  Flux facilitates solder flow.  You've probably burnt through all the flux that was in the solder to start with, so now you have only the metals left.
I have no idea why it behaved so weird. I don't think it was flux. It wasn't that it wouldn't flow.. it's that it wouldn't melt.

The 'brown' wasn't flux brown, it was dark as hell.

I've got no clue what to do now. I think my only option is to force the switch out somehow, resulting in that pad being completely screwed.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 12:02:23
Quote
Hmm, I might just wait for the cl1481. Being fixed to the kester temp, does that mean that it may be too hot or not hot enough for other applications?

yah, it won't be able to melt some types of lead-free solder out of the box. the worst lead-free process temps are 450+.

it is technically possible to change the temperature the unit is set to, but it requires disassembling the iron and it is designed to be hard to access, so that you can't accidentally change the temperature. once you reach a point of expertise with the iron and small tools, it's actually cake to change the temperature, but the idea is that the capability of the iron scales with your skill such that at each level it makes it as hard as possible to make mistakes. the temp and solder and the tips it comes with will be designed for assembling things with the kester primarily, but the idea is that it scales with your ability, so that its default mode is to protect you from burning things up, and then as you learn to tinker and build up a tool chest, you can turn it into a full-on ACCURATE high quality temp controllable iron.

and the basic idea is and was to hit a price point substantially under the hakko 888D at the same level of quality that gives you the same functionality in the common case with absolutely zero setup.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 12:05:31
The below image is DEFINITELY NSFL - TECH GORE
More
Yeah.. as you can see it's now a 10/10 on the ****ed-o-meter.
(http://i.imgur.com/Lz9ATpB.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MKULTRA on Thu, 10 October 2013, 12:45:10
The below image is DEFINITELY NSFL - TECH GORE
More
Yeah.. as you can see it's now a 10/10 on the ****ed-o-meter.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Lz9ATpB.jpg)

Is there any fixing that...?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 12:46:54
The below image is DEFINITELY NSFL - TECH GORE
More
Yeah.. as you can see it's now a 10/10 on the ****ed-o-meter.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Lz9ATpB.jpg)

Is there any fixing that...?
Doesn't matter that the pad is screwed. I can direct wire the switch easily, so that's no biggie.

The problem is getting the switch out..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 12:47:29
ouch, that's nasty. gentle scrap off the mask over the copper trace (you didn't get through it with your iron, so it's thick, so put some effort into it, but be careful not to cut the trace itself), and then wire something 26ga to it, either hookup wire or magnet wire. that's the only way you're going to recover an electrical connection to that trace.

i'll have to read the backlog in the thread to see how you did that, but ouch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 12:48:39
oh you need to get a switch out?

hot air gun, vise and pliers. pull that sucker out. it'll destroy the switch, but at this point i don't think you want to reuse that switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 10 October 2013, 13:40:45
I am growing somewhat disappointed by the Yihua 936. The tempeature of the tip varies to much and does not follow the dial very well at all. There is a large delta T between what the unit measures and the tip as well as an immense lag time. The unit stops heating long before the tip reaches correct temperature.

What bugs me is that Hakko's tip is partly to blame as it appears to have bad thermal contact with the heating element, bad conductance through the tip to get it to a homogenous temperature and low heat capacity.

I am contemplating getting a calibrated fixed temperature iron or an expensive real Hakko. I wonder how much better they can truly be. Does anyone have at least two of the three mentioned choices and could give me some comparison?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 10 October 2013, 14:19:24
I am growing somewhat disappointed by the Yihua 936. The tempeature of the tip varies to much and does not follow the dial very well at all. There is a large delta T between what the unit measures and the tip as well as an immense lag time. The unit stops heating long before the tip reaches correct temperature.

What bugs me is that Hakko's tip is partly to blame as it appears to have bad thermal contact with the heating element, bad conductance through the tip to get it to a homogenous temperature and low heat capacity.

I am contemplating getting a calibrated fixed temperature iron or an expensive real Hakko. I wonder how much better they can truly be. Does anyone have at least two of the three mentioned choices and could give me some comparison?

I have a Yihua 936 and a Hakko FX-888D (and also a Hakko 936, but I've never used it). Long story short, the Hakko suffers from none of the problems you describe with the Yihua. The Yihua is definitely a cheap station, with inherent flaws, but I think it's better than a simple pencil iron from Radio Shack. Maybe I was a little overconfident in recommending it as an entry level station. But I have used it to solder a couple keyboards, with no ill effects. If you can afford it, definitely buy a Hakko FX-888D. It will never let you down.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 14:31:36
Maybe.. JUST MAYBE.. this explains why it wouldn't melt. I have no clue how the hell this happened... :/

(http://i.imgur.com/ETiX2j4.jpg)

Anywhere I can get a replacement, or will I have to buy a new iron? :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 10 October 2013, 14:32:17
I am actually uncertain if I even prefer the Yihua over my fixed wattage iron. It might be that I am used to it, but it has a larger heat capacity so I don't have to wait to reheat, no cycling between temperatures far apart, and it also appears to be able to heat the very tip. Me regulating the temperature manually by pulling the plug of the fixed wattage appears to maintain a more useful temperature range than the Yihua manages. I am going to have to test the other unit, which I repaired, to see if it is just as bad.

I don't know quite what to expect, they were cheap as hell but I just don't seem to like them I guess.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 10 October 2013, 14:37:45
if it is any consolation, I can tell you how that likely happened Photekq.

When you fasten the screw you see there with the metal barrel, the PCB inside has to slide into a slot in the ceramic part. If it doesn't, you will press the ceramic part against the edge of the PCB a few mm earlier than it should. If you keep screwing it, the ceramic will be pressed and eventually buckle and crack.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 15:32:02
broken heater. another danger of the yihua. cheap ceramic breaks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 15:33:04
if it is any consolation, I can tell you how that likely happened Photekq.

When you fasten the screw you see there with the metal barrel, the PCB inside has to slide into a slot in the ceramic part. If it doesn't, you will press the ceramic part against the edge of the PCB a few mm earlier than it should. If you keep screwing it, the ceramic will be pressed and eventually buckle and crack.
Well that sucks.. Seems that replacements aren't too cheap either. I'd probably need a working soldering iron to install them too.

Considering a Hakko right now..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 10 October 2013, 15:36:19
After seeing all of the stuff happening with Yihuas, I think I'll wait for the cl1481.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 10 October 2013, 15:54:35
(http://i.imgur.com/8ywwBkN.jpg)
You can actually see it in the image I posted. The PCB fits into a slot in the ceramic. If the PCB doesn't enter the slit, the ceramic won't go as far in as it should.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 15:56:54
if it is any consolation, I can tell you how that likely happened Photekq.

When you fasten the screw you see there with the metal barrel, the PCB inside has to slide into a slot in the ceramic part. If it doesn't, you will press the ceramic part against the edge of the PCB a few mm earlier than it should. If you keep screwing it, the ceramic will be pressed and eventually buckle and crack.
Well that sucks.. Seems that replacements aren't too cheap either. I'd probably need a working soldering iron to install them too.

Considering a Hakko right now..
at your level of expertise, photekq, i think a hakko 888d would be a good choice. the trick with the 888d is that it's pretty high power and it's easy to burn stuff up. one of the goals of the cl1841 project is to make it very easy to make good joints (and bad joints, but that's how you learn) but very hard to destroy things via overheating, etc. i want to make a fail-_soft_ platform for people to work with. it's much better to make 100 bad joints that you can reflow non-destructively than to destroy a single pad and then have to work around that.

that said, the cl1841 package can be made available quite soon. basically, i realized that i'm a horrible guinea pig for figuring out how effective it will be. i have a loaner that i've made available to photoelectric for the "rescue the destroyed LZGH project". if that goes well, i can either run a gb at cost + a small percentage (i really really want to sell them at cost if at all possible) or buy a small stock and just try to keep costs down so that it comes in appropriately under an 888D.

the founder of edsyn really wanted to serve the hobbyist community and designed some fantastic high quality tools for doing so that i really want to take advantage of, but from a profit-making standpoint their higher-margin product (which looking closely at i'm slowly realizing beats the crap out of equivalent hakko hardware) has to take precedence right now, so i'm purposely not pushing too hard on them right now. they're a fantastic resource for us, though and I really hope to provide some fantastic edsyn based kits as soon as will be convenient for them.

i will point out though that the exposed ceramic element is something that is a hakko trademark and NOT a yihua trademark. in fact, my 888d heater is starting to show its age with reduced heat transfer than when i first bought it (i use the crap out of it obviously). this is just one place you can see where edsyn is extremely intelligently designed. instead of putting a smaller exposed heater (exposed heater -> better heat xfer) in their baseline unit, they use a larger, more powerfuly completely sheathed heater which will last substantially longer. all edsyn products are all also 100% made in the USA 15 minutes from me, so service is trivial. get it back to me, i'll bring it in, and your product will be fixed by a team of professionals that are awesome, friendly and extremely capable. no screwing around.

ps, i've been looking at a lot of this stuff because my Edsyn contact (who is lurking and has popped his head out a couple times ;) has been trying to get me into one of his upcoming extremely nice looking but very expensive high quality do-everything stations. i think he's starting to win. :X look out for a possible hakko selloff (ANOTHER ONE) from me in the next few months ;)

for our part, i'm getting him hooked on keyboards. i'm just going to declare victory on that one. it's still in progress, but yah, it'll happen.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:04:03
I am inclined to open up my fixed wattage one and see how they made it inside.

I am also thinking of adding some high-temp TIM on the Yihua between the ceramic heater and tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:18:49
AGHHHH i keep trying to post this but latency is killing it

1) just toss the yihua heaters. they are crap. i BELIEVE that true hakko heaters are all cast solid ceramic with the TC embedded. this is the only way to get an accurate temp out of a heater. they also use AFAIK quick disconnects on the heater wires.

2) the 888D is a game changer, but mostly because it is the ONLY hakko product to be made in china and hence brings the price of precise regulation down. (well the 936 was too, i think, near the end of production and we saw what happened with that). japanese hakko products are clearly higher quality. i'm already seeing reduced junction temps on my 888D with 3 months of hard usage max.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:27:38
i'll see if i can get the money together to buy an 888d. i hope that i'll be soldering a lot in the future, so i think it will be a wise investment.

thank you for your input kawa. you always put things very well and i know that i can trust your advice.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:30:58
1) just toss the yihua heaters. they are crap. i BELIEVE that true hakko heaters are all cast solid ceramic with the TC embedded. this is the only way to get an accurate temp out of a heater. they also use AFAIK quick disconnects on the heater wires.

You think we could replace the Yihua heaters with Hakko heaters? I see some Hakko elements for like $4 on eBay. Most likely fakes?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:37:40
The connector appears to be the same except for one being male to female and the other being female to male. I might try a spare hakko iron and replace the plug on it. What remains to be checked is if they are calibrated for the same type of thermocouple and element.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:43:05
1) just toss the yihua heaters. they are crap. i BELIEVE that true hakko heaters are all cast solid ceramic with the TC embedded. this is the only way to get an accurate temp out of a heater. they also use AFAIK quick disconnects on the heater wires.

You think we could replace the Yihua heaters with Hakko heaters? I see some Hakko elements for like $4 on eBay. Most likely fakes?

yes, fakes. the heater is the most expensive part of an iron. it uses exotic ceramics, which is why yihua cheaped out by casting a shell and not a solid.

yes, heaters are basically interchangeable as long as they fit. the thermocouple inside a regulated heater might NOT be interchangeable, but the heater itself is just a big high wattage resistor. you throw a certain amount of DC across it (or AC, it really doesn't matter) and it heats up. just how much power you sink into and out of it depends on voltage, heater construction, etc. but that's the basic idea.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:45:57
The connector appears to be the same except for one being male to female and the other being female to male. I might try a spare hakko iron and replace the plug on it. What remains to be checked is if they are calibrated for the same type of thermocouple and element.
they are almost certainly not. the tc and tc amp in the yihua are almost certainly total crap. the ad595adz i bought for my 8 endpoint type k thermometer (muxed to a single amp) was 40$. 40$ for a single tc amp. the reason, of course is accuracy. on this chip, the trim resistor is lasercut to extremely high accuracy. type J,K, whatever t/c standards are a) highly non-linear and b) depend on a perfect o2 free 0 resistance weld across the two dissimilar metals that make up the TC.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 October 2013, 16:49:45
here's how to make an accurate TC.

1) take 1100C melt point pure silver solder, unfluxed

2) take lightly pressurized shielding gas (noble gases are typically used, as you will be heating this gas to 1100C).

3) deoxidize the two metal endpoints to be welded. they must be 100% compositionally unoxidized alloy.

4) while exhausting shielding gas over the joint to be welded, weld the two endpoints together as near to instantaneously as possible.

this is why i built a 24f 20v capacitive discharge welder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Fri, 11 October 2013, 19:04:43
Any idea when you'll be able to run the gb for the cl1841 package?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 12 October 2013, 19:44:55
even better: how would you like to be a guinea pig? :D PM me if that sounds interesting to you.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 13 October 2013, 03:03:35
I just desoldered a G800-8200LPDUS with the Yihua and it worked OK. I had forgotten that it is NKRO and has diodes in every switch, so 4 joints per switch and about 120 of them. I have grown slightly more accustomed to the Yihua by now. I don't know which type of solder they used, I assume it was lead free and a bit higher melting point than leaded, but I had to have it set to 350C to even melt the joints, which is higher than anything they likely used.

Pro's and Con's of the Yihua over my old fixed wattage:
+ Smaller iron and handle. It is easier to move around, reach and feels more precise thana bulky solder iron.
+ It is rated 60W, supposedly faster than the other since it was 30W. I am not entirely certain that the Yihua which is rated 60W is faster to heat up the tip since it starts to cycle when the heater reaches the correct temp but far earlier than when the tip has reached it. The fixed wattage was 30W to not make it too hot since it is fixed.
+ Cheap as hell, around 15USD if you wait on the page of hobbyking for a while in order to be given a discount. I think my fixed wattage was about the same price.
+ Large and easy to find replacement tips in all kinds of shapes and sizes

- Very bad thermal connection between the thermocouple junction in the heating element to the tip. The tip itself appears to not conduct heat very well either. The unit starts cycling when the element has reached its target temperature but this is far earlier than the tip. There is also a quite a large delta T between the junction and the tip. This is my main gripe with the Yihua. Even if you wait for 15minutes at 200C, it can't melt 185C solder.
- Bad build quality, I wouldn't expect it to last long, and one arrived broken. There appears to be differences between units.
- Large separate unit. Although the iron is smaller, there is a bulky separate unit instead. It is sort of obvious, and the drawback of a smaller iron if you care about mobility.
- Solder iron holder is made out of plastic which is very wobbly and has a tendency to smolder a little since it touches the hot metal parts.

Conclusion: Check it and repair if needed, replace the stand and set it 100C higher than you want it to be and you have fixed the major problems.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 October 2013, 10:59:12
damorgue, are you guys on 230v?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:20:31
Yup, and I got the EU plug model. HK offers them with different plugs and from different warehouses. All in all they have 7 slightly differetn variants of it on their site.

How so?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:24:34
Yesterday I went to my local electronic supplier. Needed some flux, got out with lot of things, like a multimeter, tweezers, helping hands, stuff to practice on, etc.

At least, I only need to get my solder and soldapult from kawa and I'll be good to start soldering some stuff!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:26:08
NNOOOOOOO, HELPING HANDS ARE THE DEVIL.

you will quickly learn that helping hands are completely misnamed. they do exactly the opposite of help.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:26:53
NNOOOOOOO, HELPING HANDS ARE THE DEVIL.

you will quickly learn that helping hands are completely misnamed. they do exactly the opposite of help.

They were chap, wanted to try them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:27:27
Yup, and I got the EU plug model. HK offers them with different plugs and from different warehouses. All in all they have 7 slightly differetn variants of it on their site.

How so?
the cl is 115v. i had completely forgotten about this. it's simple and possible to engineer it for 230v, but i would have to do the conversion myself. blegh!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:28:14
What's bad about helping hands?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:31:37
What's bad about helping hands?

The break quickly and they don't hold up the piece steady when you work on on them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 13 October 2013, 12:32:47
Yup, and I got the EU plug model. HK offers them with different plugs and from different warehouses. All in all they have 7 slightly differetn variants of it on their site.

How so?
the cl is 115v. i had completely forgotten about this. it's simple and possible to engineer it for 230v, but i would have to do the conversion myself. blegh!

I think almost the entire EU uses 230V unfortunately. Are you certain they aren't made to be compliant with both?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 October 2013, 13:14:56
relatively sure. there isn't enough room in the pencil for a fancy transformer, and is the heater is AC it won't tolerate that wide a voltage range. i will look into this though, as that is a major issue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 18 October 2013, 22:39:45
I am officially a Soldapullt convert!  It's apparent that my old Soldapullt was sorely lacking in lubrication, as the difference between it and a new fully-lubricated one is night and day.  Never using the Radioshack iron again!

Desoldering LEDs with a Soldapullt and a fine-tip iron was a breeze--surprised myself by finishing it in one relatively quick sitting.

Just after using Soldapullt on all the LED pins:
(http://i.imgur.com/8itHDA0.jpg)

After propping LEDs with a skinny screwdriver and using a soldering iron to heat pin tips (was a pretty quick process):
(http://i.imgur.com/IZIewMZ.jpg)

All out!

(http://i.imgur.com/kUhLHmB.jpg)

Also discovered that there's a lot of lube in the switches.  Or rather something that looks like grease?  Lots of white-ish residue, as well as some shine going all the way up the stems, visible over the top housing.  Going to wash all the stems and try to re-lube.  Not sure how to clean the housings.

Also, thumbs up to the Edsyn soldering iron prototype!  It's a great little tool :)

Edit: the words "too much lube" are pretty accurate...  The switches are practically drenched in it.  I wonder what it is, maybe Superlube. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: AGmurdercore on Mon, 21 October 2013, 04:57:51
I got a broken BW ultimate and i wanted to investigate what is wrong with it and how to fix it. From what i learned so far all i can say is that desoldering LEDs is a f***ing pain in the ass, really. Desoldering a switch is a piss easy thing tho, even for a guy like me with minimal exp :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 22 October 2013, 09:18:08
On the helping hands subject I can say they are pretty crap.  The only thing they have actually helped on was soldering wires to spring steel to help facilitate sleeving them (9 feet long), and soldering wires to plugs and receptacles.  Other than that it hasn't been used.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 22 October 2013, 23:52:39
So, I am swapping springs on one of my keyboard and need a soldering iron..

Should I buy the yihua 936? And do I NEED any replacement tips for desoldering and soldering with it?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 23 October 2013, 00:55:16
So, I am swapping springs on one of my keyboard and need a soldering iron..

Should I buy the yihua 936? And do I NEED any replacement tips for desoldering and soldering with it?



That depends. What is your budget? If you can afford it, the $90 Hakko FX-888D is a much better setup for a beginner. And you won't need any replacement tips to get started.

If your budget is less than $50, get the Yihua 936. It can get the job done, and is a good deal better than just a fixed wattage soldering pencil from Radio Shack.

With the Yihua, you definitely want to get a replacement tip before you even attempt to use it. Get a 900M-T-1.6D tip from eBay.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:12:37
So, I am swapping springs on one of my keyboard and need a soldering iron..

Should I buy the yihua 936? And do I NEED any replacement tips for desoldering and soldering with it?



That depends. What is your budget? If you can afford it, the $90 Hakko FX-888D is a much better setup for a beginner. And you won't need any replacement tips to get started.

If your budget is less than $50, get the Yihua 936. It can get the job done, and is a good deal better than just a fixed wattage soldering pencil from Radio Shack.

With the Yihua, you definitely want to get a replacement tip before you even attempt to use it. Get a 900M-T-1.6D tip from eBay.

At this point in time I would like to keep the budget low, if I like soldering and everything I will invest further :D

Thanks  :thumb:

Yihua it is
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:14:05
Just about to order an 888D and a few other things. Can't wait! :thumb:

I think I'll be building a table for my soldering stuff.. If I decide to then expect a worklog ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:24:29
So this tip should be enough for all of my soldering and desoldering needs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-900M-T-1-6D-Soldering-Iron-Chisel-Tip-Rework-for-936-Aoyue-Atten-US-SELLER-/321178739681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac7bea3e1
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:28:52
So this tip should be enough for all of my soldering and desoldering needs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-900M-T-1-6D-Soldering-Iron-Chisel-Tip-Rework-for-936-Aoyue-Atten-US-SELLER-/321178739681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac7bea3e1
I personally used a 2.4D (2.4mm diameter instead of 1.6mm), but yes that tip will be great for any kind of keyboard soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 23 October 2013, 08:29:35
So this tip should be enough for all of my soldering and desoldering needs?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hakko-900M-T-1-6D-Soldering-Iron-Chisel-Tip-Rework-for-936-Aoyue-Atten-US-SELLER-/321178739681?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac7bea3e1

Yes, that should do it.

Also, for desoldering on a budget, please get a genuine Soldapullt from Edsyn. I would tell you to order one from mkawa, but he is out-of-pocket for the next few weeks. You can call Edsyn directly and order the DS017. And when mkawa gets back, you'll want an upgrade kit from him. If you want a black housing, you'll want the DS017LS. You can reach Edsyn customer service to place an order at (818) 989-2324. Tell them you are from Geekhack, and who knows, they may give you a little discount or something. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 24 October 2013, 10:15:50
I'm looking for some flux & solder wick. Having a hard time finding the brands I've seen mentioned in this thread for sale in the UK. Any suggestions?

Also, 888D has been ordered! Can't wait!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 24 October 2013, 20:14:03
Also, 888D has been ordered! Can't wait!

Wahoo!  Join the club!   :thumb:  I think you'll like it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 25 October 2013, 01:56:39
i'm kind of here (mostly not) but a single soldapullt order isn't going to kill me. go ahead and PM me if you need one. it's a bit of a burden for edsyn to process tiny orders.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 25 October 2013, 12:06:23
Also, 888D has been ordered! Can't wait!

Wahoo!  Join the club!   :thumb:  I think you'll like it.
I'm sure I will. Looks like a really nice station.

Managed to find some flux & wick. Also picked up some isopropyl alcohol, lint free wipes, an alcohol dispenser, and a bunch of other stuff.

All I need now is a table.. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Fri, 25 October 2013, 12:29:08
Also, 888D has been ordered! Can't wait!

Wahoo!  Join the club!   :thumb:  I think you'll like it.
I'm sure I will. Looks like a really nice station.

Managed to find some flux & wick. Also picked up some isopropyl alcohol, lint free wipes, an alcohol dispenser, and a bunch of other stuff.

All I need now is a table.. :rolleyes:

Kitchen table works fine, until you mess up or your parents see you  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 25 October 2013, 12:31:17
Kitchen table works fine, until you mess up or your parents see you  :p
What if I don't have a kitchen table? :))

(i don't actually have a kitchen table) :|

I want to make one out of MDF and cheap wood but.. effort :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Fri, 25 October 2013, 12:48:28
Get one of these (they are sold 50$ near where I live)

http://www.costco.ca/Centre-fold-Resin-Table.product.10344500.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:20:24
Kitchen table works fine, until you mess up or your parents see you  :p
What if I don't have a kitchen table? :))

(i don't actually have a kitchen table) :|

I want to make one out of MDF and cheap wood but.. effort :))

There's a worktable write up in the earlier part of this exact thread, in fact.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:21:44
There's a worktable write up in the earlier part of this exact thread, in fact.
Yeah, I saw that. It's nice. I've already made my primary desk ( as seen here : http://imgur.com/a/32FAJ ), I would probably just downsize it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Fri, 25 October 2013, 13:29:22
There's a worktable write up in the earlier part of this exact thread, in fact.
Yeah, I saw that. It's nice. I've already made my primary desk ( as seen here : http://imgur.com/a/32FAJ ), I would probably just downsize it.
Copying logan with that graphics card coaster?  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 25 October 2013, 20:00:03
Kitchen table works fine, until you mess up or your parents see you  :p
What if I don't have a kitchen table? :))

(i don't actually have a kitchen table) :|

I want to make one out of MDF and cheap wood but.. effort :))

I use a cheap card table that was free to me.  You could easily find something similar at a thrift shop I'm sure, for probably 5 or 10 dollars.  It's not classy or nice by any means, but it gets the job done and folds up real nice for storage and transportation.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 25 October 2013, 21:21:23
Need your opinion...  I spent $50 on this NEW soldering station.  It looks like a rebranded version of this: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_USA_Warehouse_.html  (the case looks a little different)

I used it once to repair a usb chip.  I pulled it out last night and the power switch seams to be malfunctioning.  When I flip the switch to ON, the light flashes sometimes but it does not come on.  I can hold the tip in my hand to verify it is not warming up.  If I turn the switch ON and OFF about 10-15 times, I can get it to turn on. 

I have emailed the company I bought it from to see if I can get it replaced or get a credit for its value towards another soldering station.

Is this soldering stations usually reliable and do I just have a lemon here?  Is it worth my while to move to a better brand like Weller? 

[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Sun, 27 October 2013, 04:30:36
Need your opinion...  I spent $50 on this NEW soldering station.  It looks like a rebranded version of this: http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_USA_Warehouse_.html  (the case looks a little different)

I used it once to repair a usb chip.  I pulled it out last night and the power switch seams to be malfunctioning.  When I flip the switch to ON, the light flashes sometimes but it does not come on.  I can hold the tip in my hand to verify it is not warming up.  If I turn the switch ON and OFF about 10-15 times, I can get it to turn on. 

I have emailed the company I bought it from to see if I can get it replaced or get a credit for its value towards another soldering station.

Is this soldering stations usually reliable and do I just have a lemon here?  Is it worth my while to move to a better brand like Weller? 

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

If you read my post one one or two pages back I give a quite detailed description of it, and also what is likely wrong with yours. I fixed one of mine which had similar symptoms. The solder joints in the pen are likely quite bad. Do you have something else you can solder with to fix it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Sun, 27 October 2013, 08:04:03
I know that some may have a tight budget but some of these clones are not worth it in the long run. You are better off buying a quality name brand ( Haako, Weller, ect.) for a dependable soldering station for a little more. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sun, 27 October 2013, 18:45:26
If you read my post one one or two pages back I give a quite detailed description of it, and also what is likely wrong with yours. I fixed one of mine which had similar symptoms. The solder joints in the pen are likely quite bad. Do you have something else you can solder with to fix it?

Perfect thank you.  I will wait till they get back to me before I start taking it apart.  Good to know that I should start by testing the pen.  I would not have started there...

I am going to see if I can return it and have them credit the value if the one I bought towards a Weller WES51.  I hate owning crap tools, its not worth it.  It will cost a lot more, but at least I know what I am getting...

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jalli on Sun, 27 October 2013, 22:29:14
One thing I don't see listed here are SMD Flow tips (Well based), these can be a bit hard to come by in some countries due to patents and such but they are really handy for SMD work:

Hakko has BCM/CM series but I have not seen them in North America, you can buy the aftermarket Plato ones though:
Plato HS-0531 / HS-0530: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/12244824029415007260

Here is a youtube video showing the use of a flow tip:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 27 October 2013, 22:47:21
One thing I don't see listed here are SMD Flow tips (Well based), these can be a bit hard to come by in some countries due to patents and such but they are really handy for SMD work:

Hakko has BCM/CM series but I have not seen them in North America, you can buy the aftermarket Plato ones though:
Plato HS-0531 / HS-0530: https://www.google.com/shopping/product/12244824029415007260

Here is a youtube video showing the use of a flow tip:
http://www.bdent.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=bcm
http://www.bdent.com/catalogsearch/result/index/no_cache/1/?p=2&q=bc

They're only for the FM stations though. There are similar ones for the 888D and other irons, but without the solder well in the tip - Shape BC/C (http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx888d_tips.html#productNav)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jalli on Sun, 27 October 2013, 23:02:25
Yeah, if anyone finds a T18 (888D) flow tip please link or give a heads up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sun, 27 October 2013, 23:18:32
What do you mean by flow tip? Do you mean one with a solder well? According to the hakko site, those don't exist for the 888D. The BC/C I linked before is the closest you'll get.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jalli on Sun, 27 October 2013, 23:35:02
Yeah, sorry about the terminology, everyone seems to have different names for tips with solder wells in them.

As far as I understand Hakko ran into some (patent) legal issues with these sorts of tips and that's the reason we can't buy them (they might still be available in other parts of the world, if anyone finds them pls give a heads up/link).

There are however aftermarket(3rd party) tips that will fit the 888d such as the tips that I listed.

Here is the manifacturer link:
http://www.techspray.com/p-132-soldering-tips-hakko.aspx

Here is the datasheet:
http://www.techspray.com/controls/techspray.tds/tds.ashx?id=132
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 28 October 2013, 07:39:45
Came today with a few tips aswell as a solder reel holder. Expecting a load of stuff from ebay soon: wick, flux, kimwipes, and some more stuff.
Dancap (http://dancap.co.uk/) have a really awful website and you have to pay through bank transfer or cheque. However, their service is very, very good indeed. Would highly recommend anyone in the EU/UK using them!
(http://i.imgur.com/xZMV0Fs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cllUZaC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M0qABg5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HVPXVuL.jpg)
I really love the colours of this thing. It feels very high quality too, looking forward to using it!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 28 October 2013, 09:47:19
Came today with a few tips aswell as a solder reel holder. Expecting a load of stuff from ebay soon: wick, flux, kimwipes, and some more stuff.
Dancap (http://dancap.co.uk/) have a really awful website and you have to pay through bank transfer or cheque. However, their service is very, very good indeed. Would highly recommend anyone in the EU/UK using them!
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/xZMV0Fs.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/cllUZaC.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/M0qABg5.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HVPXVuL.jpg)

I really love the colours of this thing. It feels very high quality too, looking forward to using it!
Your all set now the Hakko's are a great, the best in their price range. I love using the one I have.   
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meiosis on Tue, 29 October 2013, 00:59:12
When soldering the super small SMD components do I need soldering flux?
:|
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 29 October 2013, 02:55:02
Came today with a few tips aswell as a solder reel holder. Expecting a load of stuff from ebay soon: wick, flux, kimwipes, and some more stuff.
Dancap (http://dancap.co.uk/) have a really awful website and you have to pay through bank transfer or cheque. However, their service is very, very good indeed. Would highly recommend anyone in the EU/UK using them!
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/xZMV0Fs.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/cllUZaC.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/M0qABg5.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/HVPXVuL.jpg)

I really love the colours of this thing. It feels very high quality too, looking forward to using it!

Did you get a new camera recently too?   :eek: 

Regardless, lookin good!!  I'm positive you'll enjoy it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jalli on Tue, 29 October 2013, 08:15:39
If you need to ask this question the answer is YES, there are ways to do without but in general flux can always be cleaned off and it's better to have to much than to little.

If you are just soldering 2 pole SMD parts (resistors, capacitors, diodes, etc) you can use fine rosin core flux, if you are doing anything with a larger pin count and fine pins  extra flux becomes necessary unless the components are all brand spanking new and don't have any oxide on them (factory new).

When soldering the super small SMD components do I need soldering flux?
:|
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 15:56:02
Did you get a new camera recently too?   :eek: 

Regardless, lookin good!!  I'm positive you'll enjoy it.
Haha, no. I just took the photos while the sun was out so the lighting was good.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:02:47
So, anyone remember how long the yihua 936 took to get to them? Shipping was around 16 dollars and I didn't get a tracking number..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dgsbllx on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:07:27
Photekq, nice pictures. I'm thinking of purchasing an fx888d also, and dancap looks as good as any place to buy from. Will just the T18-B tip that it comes with be enough to start soldering a phantom? or do I need others?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:12:14
Photekq, nice pictures. I'm thinking of purchasing an fx888d also, and dancap looks as good as any place to buy from. Will just the T18-B tip that it comes with be enough to start soldering a phantom? or do I need others?
I would get a T18-D16 or T18-D24 for soldering a phantom. The stock tip isn't a chisel tip, so it wouldn't be very good for soldering a keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:13:20
I know it's been suggested since the first page, but why are chisel tips preferred to the pointed ones?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:14:25
I know it's been suggested since the first page, but why are chisel tips preferred to the pointed ones?
I believe chisel tips have better heat transfer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dgsbllx on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:15:00
Photekq, nice pictures. I'm thinking of purchasing an fx888d also, and dancap looks as good as any place to buy from. Will just the T18-B tip that it comes with be enough to start soldering a phantom? or do I need others?
I would get a T18-D16 or T18-D24 for soldering a phantom. The stock tip isn't a chisel tip, so it wouldn't be very good for soldering a keyboard.

Cheers I'll send them an email tomorrow  :thumb:

Do the same tips apply for an ergodox?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:18:01
Photekq, nice pictures. I'm thinking of purchasing an fx888d also, and dancap looks as good as any place to buy from. Will just the T18-B tip that it comes with be enough to start soldering a phantom? or do I need others?
I would get a T18-D16 or T18-D24 for soldering a phantom. The stock tip isn't a chisel tip, so it wouldn't be very good for soldering a keyboard.

Cheers I'll send them an email tomorrow  :thumb:

Do the same tips apply for an ergodox?
Yes, although it may be worth getting a D12 or D16 since I believe there is some trickier soldering on the ergodox.

I know it's been suggested since the first page, but why are chisel tips preferred to the pointed ones?
It enables faster heat transfer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dgsbllx on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:20:06
Thanks a lot  :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:21:54
Thanks a lot  :D
No worries. Any time :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:27:30
So does this(the tip) look like it will be thick enough to desolder with? I think so, but I know nothing lol

(http://i.imgur.com/NQWQAC3h.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/DvyNHroh.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:28:47
Are you able to desolder it within two seconds of placing the iron on the joint? If so, it's fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:31:48
Are you able to desolder it within two seconds of placing the iron on the joint? If so, it's fine.
I don't know, soldering iron has not shown up yet.  :-[
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:34:45
Are you able to desolder it within two seconds of placing the iron on the joint? If so, it's fine.
I don't know, soldering iron has not shown up yet.  :-[
Ah right. What iron is it, and what's the diameter of the tip?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:40:20
Are you able to desolder it within two seconds of placing the iron on the joint? If so, it's fine.
I don't know, soldering iron has not shown up yet.  :-[
Ah right. What iron is it, and what's the diameter of the tip?
Yihua 936, the tip is 1.6.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 29 October 2013, 16:42:59
Yihua 936, the tip is 1.6.
I reckon that'll be fine. If you find that it takes a long time to melt the solder then maybe get a 2.4, which is what I used when I had a yihua.

Take a look at this :
t=18m35s
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Sun, 03 November 2013, 12:47:56
In the first post as a under 50$ soldering iron there is a weller station...
In italy there is a model called LAFAYETTE SSR-5 that looks similar to the weller:

http://www.ebay.it/itm/261230496152?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (sorry if the link is in italian)


Are they the same soldering iron with different brand?
I can safely take it?

Thanks :D

p.s. that weller i can't find it in italy XD(i find some other model at 100 €)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 03 November 2013, 13:44:58
So I got the yihua 936 a couple days ago, it worked really good and I think I did a great job for my first time soldering. I changed my cherry mx blues to ghetto greens and stickered them. Everything worked and I didn't have any problems :D

Thanks!

(http://cdn.overclock.net/4/44/900x900px-LL-44189fc6_DSC_0170.jpeg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 04 November 2013, 07:57:44
So I got the yihua 936 a couple days ago, it worked really good and I think I did a great job for my first time soldering. I changed my cherry mx blues to ghetto greens and stickered them. Everything worked and I didn't have any problems :D

Thanks!

Show Image
(http://cdn.overclock.net/4/44/900x900px-LL-44189fc6_DSC_0170.jpeg)


Gratz on the successful mod job
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Wed, 06 November 2013, 13:58:47
On what temp I need to set my solder iron to solder/desolder LED?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 06 November 2013, 14:02:48
On what temp I need to set my solder iron to solder/desolder LED?

Keep it to right at the temperature to melt the solder you're using.  63/37 usually is around 380*F
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Wed, 06 November 2013, 14:16:37
On what temp I need to set my solder iron to solder/desolder LED?

Keep it to right at the temperature to melt the solder you're using.  63/37 usually is around 380*F

Since iwant to change some switches on a keyboard with led (CM storm Quickfire tk), do you know aproximatively the temp for that?

Thanks :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 06 November 2013, 14:35:29
On what temp I need to set my solder iron to solder/desolder LED?

Keep it to right at the temperature to melt the solder you're using.  63/37 usually is around 380*F

Since iwant to change some switches on a keyboard with led (CM storm Quickfire tk), do you know aproximatively the temp for that?

Thanks :D

Same thing, you want the solder to just get hot enough to melt and nothing more.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 06 November 2013, 15:14:02
Although to hot can be more forgiving than to cold.  Reason being if it is to hot it will just melt quicker and you can get the solder sucked up and out a touch quicker.  If it is to cold then you have to sit there and wait for the solder to melt while that heat moves up the pin for the switch and could start melting stuff in the switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Wed, 06 November 2013, 15:37:34
Although to hot can be more forgiving than to cold.  Reason being if it is to hot it will just melt quicker and you can get the solder sucked up and out a touch quicker.  If it is to cold then you have to sit there and wait for the solder to melt while that heat moves up the pin for the switch and could start melting stuff in the switch.

So, you are saing that if you put an higher temp there is less time to let the heat travel all the way to the switch/LED?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 06 November 2013, 16:40:57
Correct but you since the amount of heat at the joint is higher you need to be much quicker in getting the solder out or bad things can happen quicker. 

Edit:  Also keep in mind that the temp suggestions already given here are for leaded solder which melts much lower than lead free solder.  If desoldering a stock board you will need to turn the heat up anyway due to pretty much all companies using lead free solder to make an attempt to be RoHS compliant.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Wed, 06 November 2013, 17:22:38
300° C for 2-3 will be fine? or it too much?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 07 November 2013, 17:59:42
Can't help you there sorry.  I just don't have a lot of experience with desoldering.  I just understand the mechanics and then physics behind it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 07 November 2013, 23:12:14
I'm really confused. In order to only solder in ~50 switches, and not desolder, what do I need? Do I need the wick and a soldering iron or just an iron? And are there any cheaper irons? How about this? http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0/ref=zg_bs_13837391_1 Going to buy http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=19240.html

Also I will probally buy http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-670 http://www.amazon.com/SE-MZ101B-Helping-Hands-Magnifying/dp/B000RB38X8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1383887070&sr=8-8&keywords=soldering+iron(its cheaper on amazon), the helping hands, which will help with lubing switches and soldering.

So just need to solder in switches, all the other tooling will be pre done. What's the cheapest things I need to do so? what other stuff besides the yihua do I need to buy?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Beca on Fri, 08 November 2013, 00:09:22
I recently got a Noppoo Choc Mini and found out that two keys (the O and L keys) either don't register when pressed, don't register unless another key is pressed immediately after, or just register twice consistently.

I guess I need to desolder the two switches and replace them, but I want to do it on the cheap.

Would a crappy, not temperature-controllable (in terms of a dial or switch) work if I'm just going to use it for two switches?

I'm talking about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 08 November 2013, 00:11:33
I recently got a Noppoo Choc Mini and found out that two keys (the O and L keys) either don't register when pressed, don't register unless another key is pressed immediately after, or just register twice consistently.

I guess I need to desolder the two switches and replace them, but I want to do it on the cheap.

Would a crappy, not temperature-controllable (in terms of a dial or switch) work if I'm just going to use it for two switches?

I'm talking about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0

RMA
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 08 November 2013, 00:32:59
I recently got a Noppoo Choc Mini and found out that two keys (the O and L keys) either don't register when pressed, don't register unless another key is pressed immediately after, or just register twice consistently.

I guess I need to desolder the two switches and replace them, but I want to do it on the cheap.

Would a crappy, not temperature-controllable (in terms of a dial or switch) work if I'm just going to use it for two switches?

I'm talking about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0

RMA

I second this motion.  Sounds like more than just a bad solder job to me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Beca on Fri, 08 November 2013, 00:39:31
I recently got a Noppoo Choc Mini and found out that two keys (the O and L keys) either don't register when pressed, don't register unless another key is pressed immediately after, or just register twice consistently.

I guess I need to desolder the two switches and replace them, but I want to do it on the cheap.

Would a crappy, not temperature-controllable (in terms of a dial or switch) work if I'm just going to use it for two switches?

I'm talking about something like this: http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0

RMA

I second this motion.  Sounds like more than just a bad solder job to me.

I would RMA, but I bought this $50 shipped from another GH member (who did specify that the L key was chattering), but I was hoping the problem would just go away with compressed air and a little time, but it hasn't :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: catnipz0098 on Fri, 08 November 2013, 00:50:57
I'm really confused. In order to only solder in ~50 switches, and not desolder, what do I need? Do I need the wick and a soldering iron or just an iron? And are there any cheaper irons? How about this? http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0/ref=zg_bs_13837391_1 Going to buy http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=19240.html

Also I will probally buy http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-670 http://www.amazon.com/SE-MZ101B-Helping-Hands-Magnifying/dp/B000RB38X8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1383887070&sr=8-8&keywords=soldering+iron(its cheaper on amazon), the helping hands, which will help with lubing switches and soldering.

So just need to solder in switches, all the other tooling will be pre done. What's the cheapest things I need to do so? what other stuff besides the yihua do I need to buy?

What's wrong with the first soldering iron?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Fri, 08 November 2013, 09:08:39
I'm really confused. In order to only solder in ~50 switches, and not desolder, what do I need? Do I need the wick and a soldering iron or just an iron? And are there any cheaper irons? How about this? http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0/ref=zg_bs_13837391_1 Going to buy http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=19240.html

Also I will probally buy http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-670 http://www.amazon.com/SE-MZ101B-Helping-Hands-Magnifying/dp/B000RB38X8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1383887070&sr=8-8&keywords=soldering+iron(its cheaper on amazon), the helping hands, which will help with lubing switches and soldering.

So just need to solder in switches, all the other tooling will be pre done. What's the cheapest things I need to do so? what other stuff besides the yihua do I need to buy?

What's wrong with the first soldering iron?

I think is that doesn't have a temp regolator, so it ca be too hot
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 08 November 2013, 09:26:47
I'm really confused. In order to only solder in ~50 switches, and not desolder, what do I need? Do I need the wick and a soldering iron or just an iron? And are there any cheaper irons? How about this? http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0/ref=zg_bs_13837391_1 Going to buy http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=19240.html

Also I will probally buy http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-670 http://www.amazon.com/SE-MZ101B-Helping-Hands-Magnifying/dp/B000RB38X8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1383887070&sr=8-8&keywords=soldering+iron(its cheaper on amazon), the helping hands, which will help with lubing switches and soldering.

So just need to solder in switches, all the other tooling will be pre done. What's the cheapest things I need to do so? what other stuff besides the yihua do I need to buy?

Do you have solder??
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dgsbllx on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:35:37
FX888D arrived today thanks to this thread and special thanks to Photekq for recommending a UK seller of said unit. (Dancap Electronics, highly highly recommended)
Looks very nice indeed, everything is being soldered whether it needs it or not  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 November 2013, 13:37:38
FX888D arrived today thanks to this thread and special thanks to Photekq for recommending a UK seller of said unit. (Dancap Electronics, highly highly recommended)
Looks very nice indeed, everything is being soldered whether it needs it or not  :thumb:
It's a quality unit indeed. I hope it serves you well ;) and I'm glad you got the same top notch service from Dancap that I did.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:07:02
I RMAed my previous soldering station purchase because of the issues I posted early in this thread.  I put the credit towards the FX-888D as well.  Looking forward to my first project with this new soldering station.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:22:25
Oh, was meaning to post this ages ago. For all newbies : watch this video in full before even touching an iron, it is by far the best instructional video on youtube and will tell you everything that you need to know.


You don't need to watch the entire series, only the first video is really applicable to keyboard soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:33:35
Oh, was meaning to post this ages ago. For all newbies : watch this video in full before even touching an iron, it is by far the best instructional video on youtube and will tell you everything that you need to know.


You don't need to watch the entire series, only the first video is really applicable to keyboard soldering.

Thanks  :thumb:

How old is that video? Its very helpful. I see I need solder metal, flux, and a iron. For the solder metal and flux, where can I get a small amount? I don't need 30 dollars worth of it
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Fri, 08 November 2013, 14:34:26
I'm really confused. In order to only solder in ~50 switches, and not desolder, what do I need? Do I need the wick and a soldering iron or just an iron? And are there any cheaper irons? How about this? http://www.amazon.com/60-Watts-Soldering-Iron-listed/dp/B0006NGZK0/ref=zg_bs_13837391_1 Going to buy http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=19240.html

Also I will probally buy http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=360-670 http://www.amazon.com/SE-MZ101B-Helping-Hands-Magnifying/dp/B000RB38X8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1383887070&sr=8-8&keywords=soldering+iron(its cheaper on amazon), the helping hands, which will help with lubing switches and soldering.

So just need to solder in switches, all the other tooling will be pre done. What's the cheapest things I need to do so? what other stuff besides the yihua do I need to buy?

Do you have solder??

Not yet. Its $30 shipped on hobby king, so haven't pulled the trigger yet on the yihua 936
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Fri, 08 November 2013, 17:34:01
Oh, was meaning to post this ages ago. For all newbies : watch this video in full before even touching an iron, it is by far the best instructional video on youtube and will tell you everything that you need to know.


You don't need to watch the entire series, only the first video is really applicable to keyboard soldering.

Thanks  :thumb:

How old is that video? Its very helpful. I see I need solder metal, flux, and a iron. For the solder metal and flux, where can I get a small amount? I don't need 30 dollars worth of it

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you can just get rosin flux core solder, you don't need to separately flux each connection prior to soldering?

That video that Photekq linked was really good, I watched it just now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Fri, 08 November 2013, 17:46:31
Yihua 936, the tip is 1.6.
I reckon that'll be fine. If you find that it takes a long time to melt the solder then maybe get a 2.4, which is what I used when I had a yihua.

Take a look at this :
t=18m35s

Photekq, which size tip are you using on your fx888d?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 08 November 2013, 17:49:04
Photekq, which size tip are you using on your fx888d?
I use 2.4mm chisel for switches. I have a 1.2mm which I hope to use for SMD/possibly LEDs, although I haven't tried it yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Fri, 08 November 2013, 18:30:26
It's exactly my soldering setup. With 2.4mm chisel tip i can solder and desolder switches and through hole components quickly. And 1.2mm is good enough for 1608 SMD parts. I bought two dirt cheap dead stock very old Weller(Ungar) stations for these tips.
For QFP chip like ATMega32U4 I found Hakko C type tip do great job. I use cheap Hakko regulated hand iron 933 for this C.
Happy now in terms of hand soldering for keyboard things.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Sat, 09 November 2013, 23:29:38
Thanks all around for anybody that contributed on this thread, just got done with my first soldering experiment... replaced the 3.5mm jack on one of my headphones with a Yihua 936. Only issue I ran into was getting the melting temperature right, either the station's temp setting is off or I was using the wrong tip but
(http://i.imgur.com/5HU9zZE.png)

Will probably give LEDs on my poker a try next
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 10 November 2013, 10:32:44
Does anyone know what resistors I would need with these LEDs?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100pcs-2x3x4mm-Pink-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp-With-12V-Free-Resistors-234P-td-/390631308376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af370bc58&_uhb=1

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: doub on Mon, 11 November 2013, 04:51:08
Does anyone know what resistors I would need with these LEDs?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100pcs-2x3x4mm-Pink-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp-With-12V-Free-Resistors-234P-td-/390631308376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af370bc58&_uhb=1

With a 5V power supply you'd need about 56 ohms or slightly higher depending on what you got. In general RLED = (VSUPPLY - VLED) / ILED.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 11 November 2013, 06:16:14
Does anyone know what resistors I would need with these LEDs?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100pcs-2x3x4mm-Pink-Water-Clear-LED-Lamp-With-12V-Free-Resistors-234P-td-/390631308376?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af370bc58&_uhb=1

With a 5V power supply you'd need about 56 ohms or slightly higher depending on what you got. In general RLED = (VSUPPLY - VLED) / ILED.
Whats the Ohm's "Holmes"?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Mon, 11 November 2013, 15:54:46
Does the type of soldering flux used matter at all? I have a tube of this water soluble lead-free flux that came with some solder I bought and was wondering if it would be fine for use. I have checked to make sure that it is indeed for use on electronics and not plumbing or anything of that sort.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: damorgue on Mon, 11 November 2013, 16:34:43
Does the type of soldering flux used matter at all?

The more aggressive the flux the less you will have to use and the easier it will be to solder (better at removing oxides, make the solder flow through capillary effect etc). On the other hand, the more corrosive it is the more careful you will have to be about cleaning of excess flux. Some are not allowed in certain countries anymore along with leaded solder.

Edit: Flux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering#Flux)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 11 November 2013, 18:55:17
Does the type of soldering flux used matter at all? I have a tube of this water soluble lead-free flux that came with some solder I bought and was wondering if it would be fine for use. I have checked to make sure that it is indeed for use on electronics and not plumbing or anything of that sort.
It is best to use 63/37 leaded solder and RA flux for easier use. But should cleaned with good flux remover or alcohol when finished.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 11 November 2013, 19:38:17
Does the type of soldering flux used matter at all? I have a tube of this water soluble lead-free flux that came with some solder I bought and was wondering if it would be fine for use. I have checked to make sure that it is indeed for use on electronics and not plumbing or anything of that sort.
It is best to use 63/37 leaded solder and RA flux for easier use. But should cleaned with good flux remover or alcohol when finished.

A couple reasons why 63/37 is recommended (to my knowledge.  please correct me if i am wrong)
- It has the lowest melting point, so you don't have to heat up the pcb too much.
- Its 'wetting' temperature range is the narrowest, so you are less likely to mess up your solder job if you are not careful. [ref (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s)]
- The solder recommended has a rosin core, so you don't have to worry about flux at all.  Other than cleanup...

In contrast, a lead free solder is much harder to work with because it requires a much higher temperature and has a larger wet temperature range.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Mon, 11 November 2013, 23:41:19
I'm sorry. RA Flux?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 12 November 2013, 00:23:29
I'm sorry. RA Flux?

Quote from: wikipedia
Traditional rosin fluxes - available in non-activated (R), mildly activated (RMA) and activated (RA) formulations. RA and RMA fluxes contain rosin combined with an activating agent, typically an acid, which increases the wettability of metals to which it is applied by removing existing oxides. The residue resulting from the use of RA flux is corrosive and must be cleaned. RMA flux is formulated to result in a residue which is not significantly corrosive, with cleaning being preferred but optional. [ref (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering)]

It has been suggested elsewhere that acidic fluxes should be avoided on PCBs, but as long as you clean it well after, you should be fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 12 November 2013, 01:08:34
I'm looking to figure out what kind of stuff I'd need for SMD work. I'm looking at some tweezers, kim wipes, flux (probably a pen) and some isopropyl alcohol and brushes for applying the alcohol. Any suggestions? I'm trying to figure out what kind of kester flux pen I would need.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 12 November 2013, 01:45:45
For the record the solder that they use on the Das keyboards is freakin NASTY to desolder.  I had to clean my tip at least every 4 switches.  I got it all out though after I flowed a touch of lead solder into the joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Beca on Tue, 12 November 2013, 04:46:26
I'm planning to swap two defective switches and ergo-clear mod a board. Would the Radioshack desoldering iron w/ pump be better than a soldering wick in terms of removing the solder more cleanly and quickly?

What I'm planning to buy: a Yihua 936, some solder (do I have to get Kester or is any solder with the same thickness okay?), and either the desoldering iron or wick.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HotKillerZzz on Tue, 12 November 2013, 09:26:14
we should add in some advice and tips into this thread. like how to solve a burnt or 'dissappeared' soldering pad etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 12 November 2013, 09:30:51
we should add in some advice and tips into this thread. like how to solve a burnt or 'dissappeared' soldering pad etc.

I'm sure it's been discussed, just have to dig and find it :thumb:

one example

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1009419#msg1009419
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 12 November 2013, 09:32:35
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 12 November 2013, 10:01:51

Ah yes, back in the good ol days when tracks were uncovered and had manly widths :P This is quite a bit trickier these days, but still doable, at least as far as track repair goes. All of pace how to videos are of critical watching importance for soldering enthusiasts, btw. Still very relevant some 30 or so years later.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 12 November 2013, 17:42:02
Do you guys think kimwipes and specific flux are necessary for SMD soldering, specifically microcontrollers?

Edit: I do have flux but don't know if it'd be okay for SMD soldering. For reference it's the same flux that comes with: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLDER-silver-bearing-lead-free-FLUX-specialty-Kit-jewelry-BERNZOMATIC-SSWS100-/130937937883
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Tue, 12 November 2013, 19:42:16
Do you guys think kimwipes and specific flux are necessary for SMD soldering, specifically microcontrollers?

Edit: I do have flux but don't know if it'd be okay for SMD soldering. For reference it's the same flux that comes with: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLDER-silver-bearing-lead-free-FLUX-specialty-Kit-jewelry-BERNZOMATIC-SSWS100-/130937937883
I would not use what you linked, go back and read this thread for suggested solders & fluxes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: LONGZILLA on Thu, 21 November 2013, 12:37:26
Is this an sufficient multimeter for simple soldering? http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm-multimeter/p-03482007000P?sid=IAx20050830x000545&aff=Y&PID=1225267&AID=11042411 (http://www.sears.com/craftsman-cm-multimeter/p-03482007000P?sid=IAx20050830x000545&aff=Y&PID=1225267&AID=11042411) Or is it overkill?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 25 November 2013, 09:49:10
So Christmas is coming and it's time for me to get some decent soldering equipment. This is my current list:
-Weller WHS40
-Edsyn Sodapullt
-63/37 Solder from ebay
-soldering flux
-one of those dry cleaners
-DIY fume absorber

The Weller is the cheapest non no-name iron I could find and costs about 60€, I saw a Yihua on ebay that would cost me 40€, so this should be a good choice, right?
I cannot find any 63/37 solder apart from some on ebay, just 60/40 and solder with copper or silver.
For that DIY fume absorber I will probably power a case fan via USB (5V is a bit low but might be enough).

Anything I forgot?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 25 November 2013, 12:01:09
So Christmas is coming and it's time for me to get some decent soldering equipment. This is my current list:
-Weller WHS40
-Edsyn Sodapullt
-63/37 Solder from ebay
-soldering flux
-one of those dry cleaners
-DIY fume absorber

The Weller is the cheapest non no-name iron I could find and costs about 60€, I saw a Yihua on ebay that would cost me 40€, so this should be a good choice, right?
I cannot find any 63/37 solder apart from some on ebay, just 60/40 and solder with copper or silver.
For that DIY fume absorber I will probably power a case fan via USB (5V is a bit low but might be enough).

Anything I forgot?

This for the fan (http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?scase=c_usb&pid=297&area=en).  My wife has one on her desk at work and loves it.  For USB powered they do move a quite a bit of air.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 25 November 2013, 13:06:07
Thanks for the recommendation!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:23:31
So Christmas is coming and it's time for me to get some decent soldering equipment. This is my current list:
-Weller WHS40
-Edsyn Sodapullt
-63/37 Solder from ebay
-soldering flux
-one of those dry cleaners
-DIY fume absorber

The Weller is the cheapest non no-name iron I could find and costs about 60€, I saw a Yihua on ebay that would cost me 40€, so this should be a good choice, right?
I cannot find any 63/37 solder apart from some on ebay, just 60/40 and solder with copper or silver.
For that DIY fume absorber I will probably power a case fan via USB (5V is a bit low but might be enough).

Anything I forgot?

This for the fan (http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?scase=c_usb&pid=297&area=en).  My wife has one on her desk at work and loves it.  For USB powered they do move a quite a bit of air.

Great recommendation! However, not many places sell this :(.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Wed, 27 November 2013, 14:24:28
How important is flux?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:02:43
How important is flux?

Depends on application.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 27 November 2013, 15:26:40
How important is flux?

Very important.  It basically cleans the surfaces to be bonded and helps the solder flow into the joint.  Without it you will have impurities between your connection points and you will not have clean solder joints.

I would recommend always using it...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mojo3120 on Sat, 30 November 2013, 04:35:21
How important is flux?

Most solders contain a small "core" of flux, built into the solder wire itself. When you put it on the iron, the smoke you see is actually the flux burning off. You can usually get by fine with just the flux in the core, but adding additional flux may make life easier. The flux pens are really nice and convenient (I use techspray or kester).

Make sure not to use any type of acid flux on electronics.....that's for plumbing applications.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Sun, 01 December 2013, 05:42:19
how to make more sticky desoldering tool? ;)
i often fail wheh desoldering switches :'(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 02 December 2013, 00:50:06
Got sick of my cheap USB hub shorting out and decided to take it apart and fix it.  It was a mess in there.  Some of the worst soldering I have ever seen.  Also, what engineer thinks it would be a good idea to surface mount an unsupported cable connection to a PCB?  At least through hole mount that sh!t...

I have to say that I am loving the Hakko FX-888D though.  That thing is a dream to work with.  Apparently I need a flux pen when working with super tiny pads cause wetting is a PITA otherwise.  I had to be really careful because the pads were so close together and without a flux pen, i had to get creative.  Once I started tinning the wire tip with .8mm rosin core 63/37 to get some flux transfer things started to get easier.  I was getting a lot better by the end, but the start was pretty frustrating.  Luckily half of it was through hole soldering which is much easier than SMD soldering.

You may notice my fake 3rd hand.  It worked alright considering it was just stuff I had on hand.  I will have to make something better before I do a full keyboard.  My super ghetto electrical tape 'case' should keep everything in one piece.  :)

Here are some pictures.
[attach=1] [attach=2] [attach=3] [attach=4]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Mon, 02 December 2013, 10:53:34
Got sick of my cheap USB hub shorting out and decided to take it apart and fix it.  It was a mess in there.  Some of the worst soldering I have ever seen.  Also, what engineer thinks it would be a good idea to surface mount an unsupported cable connection to a PCB?  At least through hole mount that sh!t...

I have to say that I am loving the Hakko FX-888D though.  That thing is a dream to work with.  Apparently I need a flux pen when working with super tiny pads cause wetting is a PITA otherwise.  I had to be really careful because the pads were so close together and without a flux pen, i had to get creative.  Once I started tinning the wire tip with .8mm rosin core 63/37 to get some flux transfer things started to get easier.  I was getting a lot better by the end, but the start was pretty frustrating.  Luckily half of it was through hole soldering which is much easier than SMD soldering.

You may notice my fake 3rd hand.  It worked alright considering it was just stuff I had on hand.  I will have to make something better before I do a full keyboard.  My super ghetto electrical tape 'case' should keep everything in one piece.  :)

Here are some pictures.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Hey nice work, with the Hakko you can solder like PRO, wait till you build a keyboard you'll love it even more.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 01:51:09
so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 03 December 2013, 10:15:52

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 03 December 2013, 10:19:48
so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I'm going to buy one of these  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 10:37:28

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
I looked up the kester 951 and it's not that it's not acidic, it's that the flux applied is all used up during soldering and leaves little to no residue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 03 December 2013, 12:22:51

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
I looked up the kester 951 and it's not that it's not acidic, it's that the flux applied is all used up during soldering and leaves little to no residue.

Not sure how that would work.  It is a pen, so you could put flux all over the place.  Not sure how it is supposed to be 'all used up'.  I would still clean it after I finish the job...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 12:27:31

I might be a bit off-topic here, but...
I've wanted to buy the fx-888 for a longer time, but I couldn't find a 220V version for a reasonable price.
Now I see this: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html)
Do you think it's a fake? It's just too cheap...
On the other hand there are also others in aliexpress, for example this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html)
Interestingly, none of the sub-$70 says it's original, whereas some of the $100-ish do.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Tue, 03 December 2013, 12:44:34

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
I looked up the kester 951 and it's not that it's not acidic, it's that the flux applied is all used up during soldering and leaves little to no residue.

Not sure how that would work.  It is a pen, so you could put flux all over the place.  Not sure how it is supposed to be 'all used up'.  I would still clean it after I finish the job...

how do you clean it up?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:24:09

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
I looked up the kester 951 and it's not that it's not acidic, it's that the flux applied is all used up during soldering and leaves little to no residue.

Not sure how that would work.  It is a pen, so you could put flux all over the place.  Not sure how it is supposed to be 'all used up'.  I would still clean it after I finish the job...

how do you clean it up?

I use isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip.  I am sure there are better tools than Q-tips, but that is what I have been using.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:36:36

I might be a bit off-topic here, but...
I've wanted to buy the fx-888 for a longer time, but I couldn't find a 220V version for a reasonable price.
Now I see this: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html)
Do you think it's a fake? It's just too cheap...
On the other hand there are also others in aliexpress, for example this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html)
Interestingly, none of the sub-$70 says it's original, whereas some of the $100-ish do.
it's a second shift/did not pass QC unit. they're all over taobao. unlike every other true production level station on the market (and a first for hakko as well), the 888d is made in china. this means there are units falling off of trucks all over the place. this also means that it has the lowest ultimate quality of anything with a hakko brand on it ever, unfortunately. this is how they managed to afford the very high cost ICs they put in it :(.

my long-term review of it is nowhere near as glowing as my initial review of it was. the heater, which is the most important part of a soldering iron and most expensive, has only lasted about six months in my unit. it is now starting to fail. actual temperature response is wandering literally every time i heat cycle it, the paint (yes, paint, it's not powdered) is coming off the holder, etc. i'm not a particularly happy camper with this unit. example: when i first purchased it, it took about 3-5 _seconds_ to heat to op temp. now it takes about a minute and i usually have to recalibrate it. total output has also suffered. i'm using big tips for small tip jobs to compensate, and constantly cleaning the heater, but it's clear this is not meant for high hobbyist duty cycles. i may have some interesting plans for it in the mid-term, but when i get the money i will most likely replace it with an edsyn 2020 or 971dx or some other stuff i've been told is in the works :X

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:39:04

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
I looked up the kester 951 and it's not that it's not acidic, it's that the flux applied is all used up during soldering and leaves little to no residue.

Not sure how that would work.  It is a pen, so you could put flux all over the place.  Not sure how it is supposed to be 'all used up'.  I would still clean it after I finish the job...

how do you clean it up?

I use isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip.  I am sure there are better tools than Q-tips, but that is what I have been using.
if you were working on high voltage stuff, q-tips shed flammable cotton all over the place, but with low voltage stuff you're good. that said, i think it's a waste of a q-tip. pick up a nylon brush from the hardware store for a dollar and use that instead. nylon brushes with solvent on them are useful all over the workbench, even on the workbench. i keep a couple around with (progressive upward in abrasiveness) a couple brass brushes a couple steel brushes and a couple stainless steel brushes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 13:45:57

I might be a bit off-topic here, but...
I've wanted to buy the fx-888 for a longer time, but I couldn't find a 220V version for a reasonable price.
Now I see this: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html)
Do you think it's a fake? It's just too cheap...
On the other hand there are also others in aliexpress, for example this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html)
Interestingly, none of the sub-$70 says it's original, whereas some of the $100-ish do.
it's a second shift/did not pass QC unit. they're all over taobao. unlike every other true production level station on the market (and a first for hakko as well), the 888d is made in china. this means there are units falling off of trucks all over the place. this also means that it has the lowest ultimate quality of anything with a hakko brand on it ever, unfortunately. this is how they managed to afford the very high cost ICs they put in it :( .

my long-term review of it is nowhere near as glowing as my initial review of it was. the heater, which is the most important part of a soldering iron and most expensive, has only lasted about six months in my unit. it is now starting to fail. actual temperature response is wandering literally every time i heat cycle it, the paint (yes, paint, it's not powdered) is coming off the holder, etc. i'm not a particularly happy camper with this unit. example: when i first purchased it, it took about 3-5 _seconds_ to heat to op temp. now it takes about a minute and i usually have to recalibrate it. total output has also suffered. i'm using big tips for small tip jobs to compensate, and constantly cleaning the heater, but it's clear this is not meant for high hobbyist duty cycles. i may have some interesting plans for it in the mid-term, but when i get the money i will most likely replace it with an edsyn 2020 or 971dx or some other stuff i've been told is in the works :X

Thanks!
Are you talking about the $60 one or the hakkos for the Chinese market in general?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 03 December 2013, 14:11:37

so I bought one of these kester 951 flux pens and it's said to be no-clean. That being said, should I still clean after usage or is it really not necessary?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180889483171?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

IMO it is always a good idea to clean up flux even if it is not acidic and may not damage the pcb.  Maybe others have more experience with no-clean flux.
I looked up the kester 951 and it's not that it's not acidic, it's that the flux applied is all used up during soldering and leaves little to no residue.

Not sure how that would work.  It is a pen, so you could put flux all over the place.  Not sure how it is supposed to be 'all used up'.  I would still clean it after I finish the job...

how do you clean it up?

I use isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip.  I am sure there are better tools than Q-tips, but that is what I have been using.
if you were working on high voltage stuff, q-tips shed flammable cotton all over the place, but with low voltage stuff you're good. that said, i think it's a waste of a q-tip. pick up a nylon brush from the hardware store for a dollar and use that instead. nylon brushes with solvent on them are useful all over the workbench, even on the workbench. i keep a couple around with (progressive upward in abrasiveness) a couple brass brushes a couple steel brushes and a couple stainless steel brushes.

+1  I need to go buy some of those...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 03 December 2013, 14:14:33

I might be a bit off-topic here, but...
I've wanted to buy the fx-888 for a longer time, but I couldn't find a 220V version for a reasonable price.
Now I see this: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html)
Do you think it's a fake? It's just too cheap...
On the other hand there are also others in aliexpress, for example this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html)
Interestingly, none of the sub-$70 says it's original, whereas some of the $100-ish do.
it's a second shift/did not pass QC unit. they're all over taobao. unlike every other true production level station on the market (and a first for hakko as well), the 888d is made in china. this means there are units falling off of trucks all over the place. this also means that it has the lowest ultimate quality of anything with a hakko brand on it ever, unfortunately. this is how they managed to afford the very high cost ICs they put in it :( .

my long-term review of it is nowhere near as glowing as my initial review of it was. the heater, which is the most important part of a soldering iron and most expensive, has only lasted about six months in my unit. it is now starting to fail. actual temperature response is wandering literally every time i heat cycle it, the paint (yes, paint, it's not powdered) is coming off the holder, etc. i'm not a particularly happy camper with this unit. example: when i first purchased it, it took about 3-5 _seconds_ to heat to op temp. now it takes about a minute and i usually have to recalibrate it. total output has also suffered. i'm using big tips for small tip jobs to compensate, and constantly cleaning the heater, but it's clear this is not meant for high hobbyist duty cycles. i may have some interesting plans for it in the mid-term, but when i get the money i will most likely replace it with an edsyn 2020 or 971dx or some other stuff i've been told is in the works :X

Thanks!
Are you talking about the $60 one or the hakkos for the Chinese market in general?

both. anyway komar, you need a quality station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 14:16:53

both. anyway komar, you need a quality station.
Well, I already have a decent one, but it has the cord on the right side which makes me mad;P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 03 December 2013, 14:17:38
wat

flip it over? ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Tue, 03 December 2013, 14:18:32
wat

flip it over? ;)

Nah, I want it on the front;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 03 December 2013, 15:06:18
TOO BAD FOR YOU
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:17:10

I might be a bit off-topic here, but...
I've wanted to buy the fx-888 for a longer time, but I couldn't find a 220V version for a reasonable price.
Now I see this: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-70W-110V-220V-HAKKO-FX-888D-fx888-888-Solder-Soldering-Iron-Station-with-Digital-Display/809293_730008721.html)
Do you think it's a fake? It's just too cheap...
On the other hand there are also others in aliexpress, for example this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Original-HAKKO-FX-888D-digital-soldering-station-Solder-station-100-Genuine-HAKKO-soldering-station-Blue-colour/701136780.html)
Interestingly, none of the sub-$70 says it's original, whereas some of the $100-ish do.
it's a second shift/did not pass QC unit. they're all over taobao. unlike every other true production level station on the market (and a first for hakko as well), the 888d is made in china. this means there are units falling off of trucks all over the place. this also means that it has the lowest ultimate quality of anything with a hakko brand on it ever, unfortunately. this is how they managed to afford the very high cost ICs they put in it :(.

my long-term review of it is nowhere near as glowing as my initial review of it was. the heater, which is the most important part of a soldering iron and most expensive, has only lasted about six months in my unit. it is now starting to fail. actual temperature response is wandering literally every time i heat cycle it, the paint (yes, paint, it's not powdered) is coming off the holder, etc. i'm not a particularly happy camper with this unit. example: when i first purchased it, it took about 3-5 _seconds_ to heat to op temp. now it takes about a minute and i usually have to recalibrate it. total output has also suffered. i'm using big tips for small tip jobs to compensate, and constantly cleaning the heater, but it's clear this is not meant for high hobbyist duty cycles. i may have some interesting plans for it in the mid-term, but when i get the money i will most likely replace it with an edsyn 2020 or 971dx or some other stuff i've been told is in the works :X



Hey Kawa, you said the 888D's are made in China with the lesser QC and everything, what about the analog FX-888's? The ones with the dial in the front?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:26:51
how to make more sticky desoldering tool? :)
i often fail when desoldering switch :confused:

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:35:26
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:37:18
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


how to make more sticky desoldering tool? :)
i often fail when desoldering switch :confused:

You need a Soldapullt with mkawa's upgrade kit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Fri, 06 December 2013, 10:54:51
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 06 December 2013, 11:35:40
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.

What do you mean by wiping off the tip?  Do you mean you stick it into some bronze wool?  Or actually wipe off the solder with a wet sponge?  If you're cleaning the solder off the tip thoroughly, then you're not really "tinning" it--there needs to remain a layer of solder over the tip--that's what will give it that shiny silver finish too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jthomas on Fri, 06 December 2013, 12:07:35
how to make more sticky desoldering tool? :)
i often fail when desoldering switch :confused:

I was taught a desoldering trick by a lady who does production soldering her whole career and relayed to me by my current professor. I'm studying industrial electronics and this was in a class on professional fabrication.

What you do is cut/melt a small "mousehole" notch right on the tip of your soldapullt, if you hold the soldapullt vertical it'll look like a little cartoon mouse door or something on the end/side of the tip.

Now you can place the soldapullt directly over the pin you want to desolder and still get the iron into the correct spot to melt the solder, WITHOUT having to try to melt it and then rapidly position the soldapullt as normal. That tricky timing part is completely eliminated with her "mousehole" method and the soldapullt still makes plenty of suction to clear the joint.

I sacrificed a tip (they are cheap) to try it out and it works wonders for my desoldering abilities.  Before I was sometimes too slow to move the pump into position and hit the button before the solder rehardened. Now I get it right every time because the soldapullt is already in the perfect position before I even melt the solder :) Again there is still plenty of suction to completely clear the joint. (Some may think it won't "seal" right, but it is never really "sealed" against the board anyway.)

This has sped up my workflow and made the process much easier. I can post a pic if it doesn't make sense, but it's really simple, just put a notch on the tip that lets me put the iron tip in from the side.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 06 December 2013, 13:27:46
how to make more sticky desoldering tool? :)
i often fail when desoldering switch :confused:

I was taught a desoldering trick by a lady who does production soldering her whole career and relayed to me by my current professor. I'm studying industrial electronics and this was in a class on professional fabrication.

What you do is cut/melt a small "mousehole" notch right on the tip of your soldapullt, if you hold the soldapullt vertical it'll look like a little cartoon mouse door or something on the end/side of the tip.

Now you can place the soldapullt directly over the pin you want to desolder and still get the iron into the correct spot to melt the solder, WITHOUT having to try to melt it and then rapidly position the soldapullt as normal. That tricky timing part is completely eliminated with her "mousehole" method and the soldapullt still makes plenty of suction to clear the joint.

I sacrificed a tip (they are cheap) to try it out and it works wonders for my desoldering abilities.  Before I was sometimes too slow to move the pump into position and hit the button before the solder rehardened. Now I get it right every time because the soldapullt is already in the perfect position before I even melt the solder :) Again there is still plenty of suction to completely clear the joint. (Some may think it won't "seal" right, but it is never really "sealed" against the board anyway.)

This has sped up my workflow and made the process much easier. I can post a pic if it doesn't make sense, but it's really simple, just put a notch on the tip that lets me put the iron tip in from the side.


Wow, I never thought of doing that, but it makes sense. I will try it!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 07 December 2013, 10:07:52
how to make more sticky desoldering tool? :)
i often fail when desoldering switch :confused:

I was taught a desoldering trick by a lady who does production soldering her whole career and relayed to me by my current professor. I'm studying industrial electronics and this was in a class on professional fabrication.

What you do is cut/melt a small "mousehole" notch right on the tip of your soldapullt, if you hold the soldapullt vertical it'll look like a little cartoon mouse door or something on the end/side of the tip.

Now you can place the soldapullt directly over the pin you want to desolder and still get the iron into the correct spot to melt the solder, WITHOUT having to try to melt it and then rapidly position the soldapullt as normal. That tricky timing part is completely eliminated with her "mousehole" method and the soldapullt still makes plenty of suction to clear the joint.

I sacrificed a tip (they are cheap) to try it out and it works wonders for my desoldering abilities.  Before I was sometimes too slow to move the pump into position and hit the button before the solder rehardened. Now I get it right every time because the soldapullt is already in the perfect position before I even melt the solder :) Again there is still plenty of suction to completely clear the joint. (Some may think it won't "seal" right, but it is never really "sealed" against the board anyway.)

This has sped up my workflow and made the process much easier. I can post a pic if it doesn't make sense, but it's really simple, just put a notch on the tip that lets me put the iron tip in from the side.

cool!

i have been doing something like that but without the notch. the krytox augmented soldapullts i build can handle more heat flux vapor than a standard soldapullt, so i just tilt the soldapullt a little off axis right over the joint, slip my chisel tip into the gap, then let 'er rip as soon as the solder goes molten

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: balanar on Sat, 07 December 2013, 21:11:03
how to make more sticky desoldering tool? :)
i often fail when desoldering switch ???

I was taught a desoldering trick by a lady who does production soldering her whole career and relayed to me by my current professor. I'm studying industrial electronics and this was in a class on professional fabrication.

What you do is cut/melt a small "mousehole" notch right on the tip of your soldapullt, if you hold the soldapullt vertical it'll look like a little cartoon mouse door or something on the end/side of the tip.

Now you can place the soldapullt directly over the pin you want to desolder and still get the iron into the correct spot to melt the solder, WITHOUT having to try to melt it and then rapidly position the soldapullt as normal. That tricky timing part is completely eliminated with her "mousehole" method and the soldapullt still makes plenty of suction to clear the joint.

I sacrificed a tip (they are cheap) to try it out and it works wonders for my desoldering abilities.  Before I was sometimes too slow to move the pump into position and hit the button before the solder rehardened. Now I get it right every time because the soldapullt is already in the perfect position before I even melt the solder :) Again there is still plenty of suction to completely clear the joint. (Some may think it won't "seal" right, but it is never really "sealed" against the board anyway.)

This has sped up my workflow and made the process much easier. I can post a pic if it doesn't make sense, but it's really simple, just put a notch on the tip that lets me put the iron tip in from the side.


This sounds really interesting. Could you kindly post a picture illustrating the position of the notch?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Sun, 08 December 2013, 10:44:54
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.

What do you mean by wiping off the tip?  Do you mean you stick it into some bronze wool?  Or actually wipe off the solder with a wet sponge?  If you're cleaning the solder off the tip thoroughly, then you're not really "tinning" it--there needs to remain a layer of solder over the tip--that's what will give it that shiny silver finish too.
By wiping off the tip I mean just wiping off the excess solder on a wet sponge. I'm kind of confused as I put the solder onto the tip and it tends to glob up and when I wipe it off there isn't that shiny silver finish.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 08 December 2013, 11:58:45
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.

What do you mean by wiping off the tip?  Do you mean you stick it into some bronze wool?  Or actually wipe off the solder with a wet sponge?  If you're cleaning the solder off the tip thoroughly, then you're not really "tinning" it--there needs to remain a layer of solder over the tip--that's what will give it that shiny silver finish too.
By wiping off the tip I mean just wiping off the excess solder on a wet sponge. I'm kind of confused as I put the solder onto the tip and it tends to glob up and when I wipe it off there isn't that shiny silver finish.

Perhaps the tip is done...
Overheating and "aggressive" flux can kill the plating.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Sun, 08 December 2013, 12:27:04
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.

What do you mean by wiping off the tip?  Do you mean you stick it into some bronze wool?  Or actually wipe off the solder with a wet sponge?  If you're cleaning the solder off the tip thoroughly, then you're not really "tinning" it--there needs to remain a layer of solder over the tip--that's what will give it that shiny silver finish too.
By wiping off the tip I mean just wiping off the excess solder on a wet sponge. I'm kind of confused as I put the solder onto the tip and it tends to glob up and when I wipe it off there isn't that shiny silver finish.

Perhaps the tip is done...
Overheating and "aggressive" flux can kill the plating.

Kind of odd since this happened the first time I actually used the iron and the tip and iron were brand new.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 08 December 2013, 13:48:07
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.

What do you mean by wiping off the tip?  Do you mean you stick it into some bronze wool?  Or actually wipe off the solder with a wet sponge?  If you're cleaning the solder off the tip thoroughly, then you're not really "tinning" it--there needs to remain a layer of solder over the tip--that's what will give it that shiny silver finish too.
By wiping off the tip I mean just wiping off the excess solder on a wet sponge. I'm kind of confused as I put the solder onto the tip and it tends to glob up and when I wipe it off there isn't that shiny silver finish.

Perhaps the tip is done...
Overheating and "aggressive" flux can kill the plating.

Kind of odd since this happened the first time I actually used the iron and the tip and iron were brand new.

Weird! Whats your exact setup? (solder, tip, temperature...)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Sun, 08 December 2013, 13:50:58
Guys, when I'm tinning my tip with solder, I notice it turns into a bronze color when I wipe the solder off the iron.

What turns a bronze color, the tip? What solder are you using? It should be a nice silver color.


the tip turns a bronze color when I wipe the solder off. I'm using the Kester solder recommend in the thread. Basically when I'm applying it it begins to glob up on the tip. When I wipe it off the tip has the bronze look to it and when I turn it off after and the tip looks greyish with a slight blue to it. I kind of feel as if the solder isn't adhering to the tip.

What do you mean by wiping off the tip?  Do you mean you stick it into some bronze wool?  Or actually wipe off the solder with a wet sponge?  If you're cleaning the solder off the tip thoroughly, then you're not really "tinning" it--there needs to remain a layer of solder over the tip--that's what will give it that shiny silver finish too.
By wiping off the tip I mean just wiping off the excess solder on a wet sponge. I'm kind of confused as I put the solder onto the tip and it tends to glob up and when I wipe it off there isn't that shiny silver finish.

Perhaps the tip is done...
Overheating and "aggressive" flux can kill the plating.

Kind of odd since this happened the first time I actually used the iron and the tip and iron were brand new.

Weird! Whats your exact setup? (solder, tip, temperature...)
It is Mkawa's beta kit. Comes with the edsyn cl1481 and the temp is set to the kester melting point. Unsure on the exact tip model but it's a small chisel tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 08 December 2013, 13:59:41
hit the tip with a brass brush, scrub it down and then try tinning it again. repeat until you get a nice shiny tip. there's probably tons of oxidization on there, so much that the flux can't dissolve all of it in one go.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jthomas on Mon, 09 December 2013, 14:46:57
This sounds really interesting. Could you kindly post a picture illustrating the position of the notch?

Sure, here you go:
[attach=1][attach=2]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Mon, 09 December 2013, 18:24:05
Thanks for pics!
It makes sense clearly for me now :) I'll try this, for sure.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 09 December 2013, 20:09:21
would it be easier and/or cheaper to do this and buy a soldapult and a new tip or spend $15 for the radioshack desolder iron with pump?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 09 December 2013, 20:14:22
would it be easier and/or cheaper to do this and buy a soldapult and a new tip or spend $15 for the radioshack desolder iron with pump?

Cheaper, no.

Easier, you bet your ass. I just desoldered two full size keyboards with a Soldapullt. When I used to use the RS iron w/bulb, I would get hand cramps and have to change tips every 100 switches or less.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 09 December 2013, 20:16:02
would it be easier and/or cheaper to do this and buy a soldapult and a new tip or spend $15 for the radioshack desolder iron with pump?

Cheaper, no.

Easier, you bet your ass. I just desoldered two full size keyboards with a Soldapullt. When I used to use the RS iron w/bulb, I would get hand cramps and have to change tips every 100 switches or less.

Ah I see, thanks for the help. Will probably get both, and use the RS for one or two switches at a time, and the tip with soldapollt when doing full boards
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 09 December 2013, 20:21:42
I've used the RS iron for 2 full Filco TKL desoldering projects.  Had to replace the tip a few times.  After I got the hang of it, the 2nd PCB went much faster than the first one.  Overall, it's not a bad tool--it certainly works fine.  Just the suction could be better, and you should have some spare replacement tools ready.  I do love my new Soldapullt.

With both the Soldapullt and the RS iron, you may still have small solder filaments remaining in the holes around pins (have yet to try this new "notch" method described above).  So in that respect, you'll still have to tinker with a desoldering braid a bit or I prefer to just pull on the switches from one side and simultaneously heat their pins with a soldering iron from the other in those situations.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 10 December 2013, 10:42:48
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: oTurtlez on Tue, 10 December 2013, 10:56:01
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kpowqoR2Wn1qzma4ho1_400.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Tue, 10 December 2013, 10:58:28
This sounds really interesting. Could you kindly post a picture illustrating the position of the notch?

Sure, here you go:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Thanks for your pict sir,i understand now :D
EDIT:really thanks i've try and succeed :)) really easy desoldering now :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Tue, 10 December 2013, 10:58:35
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.

Sadly that's still not quite going to get all the solder out for complete through-hole copper inserts in double-sided PCBs like Filcos.  I did that initially with my first Filco PCB and spent forever adding solder, sucking it out, adding more, using a braid, etc.  Tiny filaments remained deep inside the holes, and Filco even advertises that their solder goes all the way to the other side of the PCB.  It might be easier to get it all out with better tools.  My TRiK PCB was VERY easy to desolder (switches and LEDs) compared to Filco.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 10 December 2013, 11:02:01
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.

Sadly that's still not quite going to get all the solder out for complete through-hole copper inserts in double-sided PCBs like Filcos.  I did that initially with my first Filco PCB and spent forever adding solder, sucking it out, adding more, using a braid, etc.  Tiny filaments remained deep inside the holes, and Filco even advertises that their solder goes all the way to the other side of the PCB.  It might be easier to get it all out with better tools.  My TRiK PCB was VERY easy to desolder (switches and LEDs) compared to Filco.

I think that also has a good bit to due with the type of solder Filco's use in manufacturing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 10 December 2013, 11:03:02
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.

Sadly that's still not quite going to get all the solder out for complete through-hole copper inserts in double-sided PCBs like Filcos.  I did that initially with my first Filco PCB and spent forever adding solder, sucking it out, adding more, using a braid, etc.  Tiny filaments remained deep inside the holes, and Filco even advertises that their solder goes all the way to the other side of the PCB.  It might be easier to get it all out with better tools.  My TRiK PCB was VERY easy to desolder (switches and LEDs) compared to Filco.

Yeah, those Filco PCBs are a real pain to desolder. You're bound to lose a couple pads in the process.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 10 December 2013, 12:39:10
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.

Sadly that's still not quite going to get all the solder out for complete through-hole copper inserts in double-sided PCBs like Filcos.  I did that initially with my first Filco PCB and spent forever adding solder, sucking it out, adding more, using a braid, etc.  Tiny filaments remained deep inside the holes, and Filco even advertises that their solder goes all the way to the other side of the PCB.  It might be easier to get it all out with better tools.  My TRiK PCB was VERY easy to desolder (switches and LEDs) compared to Filco.

Yeah, those Filco PCBs are a real pain to desolder. You're bound to lose a couple pads in the process.

Uggg...  I have a filco that I want to replace the plate on.  Not looking forward to this now...  :(  Any tips will be much appreciated. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 10 December 2013, 14:51:18
I got one of these (https://www.google.se/search?q=ZD-985+desoldering&tbm=isch) cheap from Poland some time ago. I haven't had a reason to try it on switches yet, but it sure gets stuff de-soldered properly =D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Stevenator21 on Tue, 10 December 2013, 15:06:32
What is the recommended method of desoldering? Braid? Sucker?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 10 December 2013, 15:14:00
What is the recommended method of desoldering? Braid? Sucker?

Everyone will give you a different answer.  I prefer a solder sucker.  Some prefer braid. Use what works best for you.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Tue, 10 December 2013, 15:30:31
Both braids and solder suckers are poor for desoldering double layer PCBs.  A better choice would be a powered vacuum pump desolderer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: balanar on Wed, 11 December 2013, 03:30:40
This sounds really interesting. Could you kindly post a picture illustrating the position of the notch?

Sure, here you go:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Wow that makes it alot clearer, thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Wed, 11 December 2013, 11:02:05
I'm in the UK and need recommendations on a soldering iron / soldering station plus anything I'd need for desoldering switches on a keyboard. The cheaper the better really since it's not going to be used like every day but don't want horrible tat at the same time. Got £35 Amazon.co.uk credit as well if anything on there is good.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 11 December 2013, 11:13:44
I'm in the UK and need recommendations on a soldering iron / soldering station plus anything I'd need for desoldering switches on a keyboard. The cheaper the better really since it's not going to be used like every day but don't want horrible tat at the same time. Got £35 Amazon.co.uk credit as well if anything on there is good.

This seems to have good reviews, and is probably very similar to the Yihua 936: 60W ESD PROTECTION LCD SOLDERING IRON STATION NEW (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004X25LW8/)

Then you just need a Soldapullt and some Kester 44 from mkawa. :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Wed, 11 December 2013, 11:25:56
I'm in the UK and need recommendations on a soldering iron / soldering station plus anything I'd need for desoldering switches on a keyboard. The cheaper the better really since it's not going to be used like every day but don't want horrible tat at the same time. Got £35 Amazon.co.uk credit as well if anything on there is good.

This seems to have good reviews, and is probably very similar to the Yihua 936: 60W ESD PROTECTION LCD SOLDERING IRON STATION NEW (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004X25LW8/)

Then you just need a Soldapullt and some Kester 44 from mkawa. :thumb:


To be honest for the time being all it's going to be used for is to desolder one faulty Cherry MX switch and replace it with another.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 11 December 2013, 11:32:51
I'm in the UK and need recommendations on a soldering iron / soldering station plus anything I'd need for desoldering switches on a keyboard. The cheaper the better really since it's not going to be used like every day but don't want horrible tat at the same time. Got £35 Amazon.co.uk credit as well if anything on there is good.

This seems to have good reviews, and is probably very similar to the Yihua 936: 60W ESD PROTECTION LCD SOLDERING IRON STATION NEW (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004X25LW8/)

Then you just need a Soldapullt and some Kester 44 from mkawa. :thumb:


To be honest for the time being all it's going to be used for is to desolder one faulty Cherry MX switch and replace it with another.

buy better tools than you think you need.  it is worth the money to buy a better tool right away than to spend money on a tool and then have to replace it with a better one later.  this is a painful lesson to learn in practice...

what jd linked is probably fine for what you want. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Wed, 11 December 2013, 12:22:58
I'm trying to find an alternative to that Kester 44 solder wire since it has to be ordered from the US (Prefer something that can be bought in the UK for delivery purposes)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 11 December 2013, 12:44:22
I'm trying to find an alternative to that Kester 44 solder wire since it has to be ordered from the US (Prefer something that can be bought in the UK for delivery purposes)

Just go to amazon.co.uk and search for '63 37 solder'.  You are looking for 63/37 solder with rosin core that is .8mm or smaller.  I believe that will be equivalent to Kester 44.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 11 December 2013, 13:39:34
I'm trying to find an alternative to that Kester 44 solder wire since it has to be ordered from the US (Prefer something that can be bought in the UK for delivery purposes)

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008FK64CU/) should be fine.

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004V8DHQG/) solder wick (braid) should work for desoldering tasks.


If you really only ever intend to use it to desolder/solder one faulty switch, you could probably get by just fine with this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0009VX232/) or even this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005HNOKR4/) soldering pencil.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Wed, 11 December 2013, 13:52:56
Ebay has some too (http://www.ebay.de/itm/63-37-Zinn-Blei-0-8-Rosin-Rolle-Tin-0-8-Rosin-Core-Flux-Solder-Wire-Reel-/330868964246?pt=Licht_Effekte&hash=item4d0953bb96) and is usually quite cheap, but I don't know if it's any good.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Wed, 11 December 2013, 14:05:46
Yeah I don't mind buying from eBay or Amazon really. Is it better to use the desoldering wick rather than the pump / sucker?

I'm trying to find an alternative to that Kester 44 solder wire since it has to be ordered from the US (Prefer something that can be bought in the UK for delivery purposes)

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008FK64CU/) should be fine.

This (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004V8DHQG/) solder wick (braid) should work for desoldering tasks.


If you really only ever intend to use it to desolder/solder one faulty switch, you could probably get by just fine with this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0009VX232/) or even this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005HNOKR4/) soldering pencil.

I'm not too sure how often I'd use it really; depends on if any switches or anything broke. It'd be basically used to perhaps change the LEDs on my QFR and any broken switches / contact points.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 11 December 2013, 15:25:54
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the main difference between Kester 44 (63/37) and other 63/37 solders is that Kester 44 has 3.3% flux and most of the other 63/37 solders have 2% flux. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Wed, 11 December 2013, 19:36:25
Would something like this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B005ZEM7YI/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) be good for soldering switches and whatnot? If so, what size tip(s) should I get?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Wed, 11 December 2013, 19:45:05
Would something like this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B005ZEM7YI/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) be good for soldering switches and whatnot? If so, what size tip(s) should I get?

The Yihua in the OP is on ebay for 5£ more: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Station-Best-Quality-YAXUN-936B-whit-UK-3pin-Fused-Plug-/251303485987
JD is a fan of those I think. I don't know what the difference from the B+ to the normal version is though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Wed, 11 December 2013, 19:54:28
Was hoping it'd be on Amazon since I have like £35 credit to use on there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Wed, 11 December 2013, 20:00:28
Was hoping it'd be on Amazon since I have like £35 credit to use on there.

Maybe use it for solder, a tip cleaner, a sodapult, etc.? Just some general solder stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 12 December 2013, 00:04:43
if you get an unclear desolder in any situation, the best trick is actually the least intuitive. ADD solder to the joint, a whole bunch, then melt and use your solder sucker tool again. do this enough times and you will get a really clean desolder for mechanical and metallurgic reasons i won't go into.

Sadly that's still not quite going to get all the solder out for complete through-hole copper inserts in double-sided PCBs like Filcos.  I did that initially with my first Filco PCB and spent forever adding solder, sucking it out, adding more, using a braid, etc.  Tiny filaments remained deep inside the holes, and Filco even advertises that their solder goes all the way to the other side of the PCB.  It might be easier to get it all out with better tools.  My TRiK PCB was VERY easy to desolder (switches and LEDs) compared to Filco.

Yeah, those Filco PCBs are a real pain to desolder. You're bound to lose a couple pads in the process.

Uggg...  I have a filco that I want to replace the plate on.  Not looking forward to this now...  :(  Any tips will be much appreciated. 

Get a Hakko 808, it works well for inserts/VIAs!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 12 December 2013, 02:00:44
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the main difference between Kester 44 (63/37) and other 63/37 solders is that Kester 44 has 3.3% flux and most of the other 63/37 solders have 2% flux. 
the kester 44 datasheet explains it best: https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kester.com%2Fdownload%2F44%2520Flux-Cored%2520Wire%2520Data%2520Sheet.pdf

basically, kester RA (activated rosin flux) is the ideal flux. it's just corrosive enough to wet joints but not corrosive enough to damage boards or components. it is also non-conductive in nearly all situations, so one can get away with treating it as a no-clean flux. most no-clean flux is absolutely worthless. the major problem with kester 44 is that it uses leaded alloys which are not allowed for use in imported electronics in the EU anymore. this has made it exceedingly difficult to find, simply because kester has a much smaller market it's selling 44 to. ironically, the major market for kester 44 is solder and rework devices meant for use in factories in Asia. these devices are then used to melt lead-free no-clean solder on devices meant for export from asia.

21st century economics.

anyway, the other problem with kester 44 is not it's not very stable compared to most fluxed solders. it has a shelf life of 2-3 years, and needs to be kept within safe humidity and temperature ranges that are smaller than lead free mildly fluxed solders. so, ironically, the only size of kester 44 that's still produced in quantity is 1lb spools, but there's no chance at all of a hobbyist using 16oz of solder before the spool expires. CONUNDRUM. i've spent some time and a whole bunch of money attacking this problem as geekhackers and i think you guys will be pleasantly surprised when the final product goes up on the permanent store. because of the above, it really is the best hobbyist solder, but it hasn't really been readily available for hobbyists since rohs went into effect.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 12 December 2013, 03:22:55
anyway, the other problem with kester 44 is not it's not very stable compared to most fluxed solders. it has a shelf life of 2-3 years, and needs to be kept within safe humidity and temperature ranges that are smaller than lead free mildly fluxed solders.
Hm. Can you elaborate about this point? I’ve read a bunch of random comments online from people saying they’ve used the same spool of Kester 44 for decades. What happens to expired flux/solder?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 12 December 2013, 16:38:53
When cleaning flux with kimwipes and isopropyl alcohol, what do you guys generally do? Do you scrub the pcb with brush + alcohol then put on the wipe to absorb the excess alcohol? For cleaning kester 951 flux (no clean flux) is it alright to simply go over the area with a bonpen filled with IPA and then apply the wipe afterwards?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Thu, 12 December 2013, 20:21:29
To clean I pour a quite bit of IPA into PCB then scrub down with small child tooth brush and wipe with kimwipe. I don't rub PCB with kimwipe just soak up excess. So I think kleenex also works you don't need kimwipe necessarily.

It seems sufficient amount of IPA and brush scrub are important. You will not able to give IPA enough with Bonpen, I used small bottle and pour. I use Bonpen to apply flux and like it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 13 December 2013, 00:40:26
anyway, the other problem with kester 44 is not it's not very stable compared to most fluxed solders. it has a shelf life of 2-3 years, and needs to be kept within safe humidity and temperature ranges that are smaller than lead free mildly fluxed solders.
Hm. Can you elaborate about this point? I’ve read a bunch of random comments online from people saying they’ve used the same spool of Kester 44 for decades. What happens to expired flux/solder?
in the best case, the flux just becomes less active. the activators in it are usually either halides or fluorides. i can't remember exactly what Kester RA uses, but i don't believe it uses halides or if it does they neutralize on vaporization and aren't left in the residue.

you might recall that the physical interpretation of the word flux is not a name for a substance but a noun which refers to the flow of some other noun. in this case, solder flux facilitates the flow of molten solder over two metals that one wants to be electrically joined. in this case, the thing that prevents this from happening is generally the oxide layer that forms on metals when they are exposed to oxygen (almost all useful metals want dem oxygen electrons). hence, flux, the substance, is a corrosive compound which, when vaporized in contact with metal oxides, dissolves or otherwise makes them go away.

so, in the best case, your 10 year old spool of solder (i had one too!) is just a spool of metal alloy with a low melt temperature and a mostly inert substance running through the core of the drawn wire.

in the worst case, the flux eats through the solder alloy itself and affects the alloy composition and physical structure of the drawn solder wire. i've seen (and thrown away) rolls of solder that looked like they bled to death.

another issue is that of lead. lead really likes oxygen. especially in very thin solder wire, a large amount of lead is exposed to oxygen and can form a very very thick oxide layer. as above, the flux core is supposed to help deal with this, but over the last decade it became a gross inert bit of tree sap, so your solder is not quite the alloy you thought it was and does not have the same conductivity or flow properties it used to. that can be bad, particularly if you're new to soldering. i personally use a roll of kester 44 i got off ebay and expired about 2 years ago. i also keep a large fresh bottle of activated rosin flux around, and thoroughly clean my boards of flux residue.

in short, kester 44 RA 63/37 0.02 is pretty much the best hobbyist and leaded solder WHEN IT'S NOT EXPIRED. after it expires it usually stays workable, but you have to be a bit careful with it.

kimwipes are probably overkill on all but the most intricate of SMT designs. i have a flux remover spray full of pretty much every organic solvent you can think of that i use (i think it's an mg chem product, but it could also be chemtronics). i then scrub the crap out of it with a nylon brush. iso (anhydrous, not that rubbing alcohol crap) also works for most flux residues. then i just let it dry. keep in mind that organic solvents are volatile as crap and vaporize immediately and then smell like crap for hours. i do this in the bathtub and then i leave the bathroom and go work somewhere that doesn't smell like crap.



Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Fri, 13 December 2013, 08:44:30
To clean I pour a quite bit of IPA into PCB then scrub down with small child tooth brush and wipe with kimwipe. I don't rub PCB with kimwipe just soak up excess. So I think kleenex also works you don't need kimwipe necessarily.

It seems sufficient amount of IPA and brush scrub are important. You will not able to give IPA enough with Bonpen, I used small bottle and pour. I use Bonpen to apply flux and like it.

You probably shouldn't clean your PCB's with beer.
/s
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 13 December 2013, 10:41:51
To clean I pour a quite bit of IPA into PCB then scrub down with small child tooth brush and wipe with kimwipe. I don't rub PCB with kimwipe just soak up excess. So I think kleenex also works you don't need kimwipe necessarily.

It seems sufficient amount of IPA and brush scrub are important. You will not able to give IPA enough with Bonpen, I used small bottle and pour. I use Bonpen to apply flux and like it.

You probably shouldn't clean your PCB's with beer.
/s

****, I was wondering why my keyboard is chattering--must have given it too much alcohol.  Should have tried beer--it's lower in alcohol content.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 15 December 2013, 09:58:48
I recently replaced the browns on my QFR with clears, and then a little bit later the clears with ergo-clears. This was my first reasonably large (de)soldering job. Everything went fine, and looking at other examples I think I did an okay job of it.

However, none of the 3 LEDs continue to work. Is there some particular magic to soldering in LEDs that's different than the switches? The joints for LEDs are definitely smaller; does this make it easier to mess up?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 15 December 2013, 10:03:33
Is there some particular magic to soldering in LEDs that's different than the switches? The joints for LEDs are definitely smaller; does this make it easier to mess up?

Did you change their color? The provided voltage for them might be too high or to low. Also, did you maybe solder them in the wrong way around?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 15 December 2013, 10:20:51
Is there some particular magic to soldering in LEDs that's different than the switches? The joints for LEDs are definitely smaller; does this make it easier to mess up?

Did you change their color? The provided voltage for them might be too high or to low. Also, did you maybe solder them in the wrong way around?

I didn't change the color, but I'm willing to bet you've come across the problem ;). I didn't solder them in a particular way because I didn't see any markings on the LEDs themselves. How can I tell which way is the right way?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sun, 15 December 2013, 10:50:30
Is there some particular magic to soldering in LEDs that's different than the switches? The joints for LEDs are definitely smaller; does this make it easier to mess up?

Did you change their color? The provided voltage for them might be too high or to low. Also, did you maybe solder them in the wrong way around?

I didn't change the color, but I'm willing to bet you've come across the problem ;). I didn't solder them in a particular way because I didn't see any markings on the LEDs themselves. How can I tell which way is the right way?

Learn about the polarity of LEDs here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.5450#post_BBB
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 15 December 2013, 16:27:59
Is there some particular magic to soldering in LEDs that's different than the switches? The joints for LEDs are definitely smaller; does this make it easier to mess up?

Did you change their color? The provided voltage for them might be too high or to low. Also, did you maybe solder them in the wrong way around?

I didn't change the color, but I'm willing to bet you've come across the problem ;). I didn't solder them in a particular way because I didn't see any markings on the LEDs themselves. How can I tell which way is the right way?

Learn about the polarity of LEDs here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.5450#post_BBB

Great! Thanks for pointing this out – I should've known to look there first.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 15 December 2013, 20:44:34
just a quick teaser of the learn to solder kit's solder station that i've been designing:

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Sun, 15 December 2013, 23:12:29
just a quick teaser of the learn to solder kit's solder station that i've been designing:
Oh yeah, that things looks beautiful.

PS. Can you recommend a nice fine tip for the CL1481? The smaller default tip you included works great but I feel like I could use a smaller one to get into those hard to reach spots when doing smaller surface mount stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 16 December 2013, 01:16:20
yep! the tip you are looking for is the lt374^H^H^H^ LT444. shoot me a PM tonight or early-ish tomorrow and i can get it out the door by tuesday or wednesday at the latest. i have to run by edsyn either tomorrow or the day after for other reasons :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:07:44
What heat should I be using to desolder / resolder switches? I desoldered the switch earlier, does this look OK? The Backspace key just wasn't working at all.

(http://i.imgur.com/vou61jg.jpg?1)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:13:56
That looks fine. I use about 285-300 degC on my iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:17:01
On my yihua I usually use 300-350c when desoldering. 350c took probably 3 seconds to desolder the switches on a QFR if the tip was properly cleaned and tinned. But if I desoldered the kester solder it could be done at much lower temps a lot faster.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:24:10
Ah no wonder mine took slightly longer, I was using 240. Oops! Photekq this is going to be a shot in the dark but you don't have any Costar stabilizer inserts do you? I'm trying to source some from within Europe as I'd like to try and get them ASAP.

This (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400511934540?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) is the solder I am using
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:25:04
Ah no wonder mine took slightly longer, I was using 240. Oops! Photekq this is going to be a shot in the dark but you don't have any Costar stabilizer inserts do you? I'm trying to source some from within Europe as I'd like to try and get them ASAP.
http://www.keyboardco.com/product/4-filco-white-stabilizers.asp

 ;D

I threw all of mine away. Cherrystabs4lyfe
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:26:15
They're OOS :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:27:04
They're OOS :(
Ah, darn. Didn't realise that. Sorry I couldn't help you out :-[
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:28:11
They're OOS :(
Ah, darn. Didn't realise that. Sorry I couldn't help you out :-[

Yeah. I'm gonna be able to fix the keyboard whenever I get a new red switch but I'm not gonna be able to put any keycaps on because I have one set of stabilizer inserts for 2 keyboards basically.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 16 December 2013, 16:30:29
If you need them urgently then it's worth taking a gamble on the MY ones that kint offered you on DT. Going by his description, I have run into them before, and they did look exactly like costar inserts, and I reckon they would work. Cannot say for sure though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 16 December 2013, 18:44:58
does wasd not ship internationally?

also, mackem, great desoldering job. if you want to take the rest of the solder on the pad off, you can either use braid or the clever way is to put MORE solder on, then soldapullt it all up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Mon, 16 December 2013, 19:47:49
does wasd not ship internationally?

also, mackem, great desoldering job. if you want to take the rest of the solder on the pad off, you can either use braid or the clever way is to put MORE solder on, then soldapullt it all up.

Yeah WASD do ship internationally but it means I'd now probably have to wait until early January to get them. It's no big deal I suppose.

Thanks. First time I've touched a soldering iron since I was 12 (8 years ago, feels like yesterday). I tried using some of the desolder wick stuff but it didn't work for some reason. Perhaps I needed to turn the temperature up or I wasn't using it right.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Sat, 21 December 2013, 17:46:57
I fixed the issue with the QFR; I scraped the trace to expose the copper and managed to solder to get it working. It looks abysmal but it works. Only issue now is that the top cover is warped so I need a new one!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 21 December 2013, 17:49:15
I fixed the issue with the QFR; I scraped the trace to expose the copper and managed to solder to get it working. It looks abysmal but it works. Only issue now is that the top cover is warped so I need a new one!
You are going to have a hard time getting a top that isn't warped, it doesn't really matter once the top is actually on the keyboard though. (although this could just be that it was hot where I live every time I ordered one and the ups trucks might have warped them)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Mysteric on Sat, 21 December 2013, 17:53:23
I fixed the issue with the QFR; I scraped the trace to expose the copper and managed to solder to get it working. It looks abysmal but it works. Only issue now is that the top cover is warped so I need a new one!
You are going to have a hard time getting a top that isn't warped, it doesn't really matter once the top is actually on the keyboard though. (although this could just be that it was hot where I live every time I ordered one and the ups trucks might have warped them)

One of the little tab things on the top side of the case won't clip into place properly so the top left part of the keyboard makes an awful creaking / clicking noise if I press any of the keys near there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Sat, 21 December 2013, 18:44:23
I fixed the issue with the QFR; I scraped the trace to expose the copper and managed to solder to get it working. It looks abysmal but it works. Only issue now is that the top cover is warped so I need a new one!
You are going to have a hard time getting a top that isn't warped, it doesn't really matter once the top is actually on the keyboard though. (although this could just be that it was hot where I live every time I ordered one and the ups trucks might have warped them)

One of the little tab things on the top side of the case won't clip into place properly so the top left part of the keyboard makes an awful creaking / clicking noise if I press any of the keys near there.
From my experience with QFR's (4+) I have not seen a non-warped top. The new replacements included, it seems they intended them to be warped. The tabs will wear with removal and replacement cycles causing the creaking / clicking issues.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 21 December 2013, 19:42:34
They are all warped to different extent since they are so soft and flexible, and I've handled like 30 QFR tops o.o  Filco tops are made of thicker / harder plastic and even they are slightly warped.  When you put your top cover onto the base, make sure you're inserting it evenly from all directions and really squeeze the top and bottom until you hear the clicks/pops.  At worst, you can file off some of the tabs on the inside of the top cover, or just file off the sides of the tabs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Neal on Tue, 24 December 2013, 16:24:28
Well... My dad just gave me a Weller WS81. I have a feeling this is huge overkill for my usage.
But its time for me how to properly solder, guess I'll be around this thread a lot. :o
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 24 December 2013, 16:31:16
Well... My dad just gave me a Weller WS81. I have a feeling this is huge overkill for my usage.
But its time for me how to properly solder, guess I'll be around this thread a lot. :o

Nice, that's what I used in school for my first soldering project there and when I learned more proper soldering techniques.   :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 25 December 2013, 10:55:50
I just desoldered the two leds on my filco... It took a good 30 mins to get them to come off, I realized I needed to prop the board up and just pull each side out while I heated the solder because there was no way all the solder was coming out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:04:24
I just desoldered the two leds on my filco... It took a good 30 mins to get them to come off, I realized I needed to prop the board up and just pull each side out while I heated the solder because there was no way all the solder was coming out.

What are you using to desolder? I've had success with a cheapo desoldering pump like this:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31tDEBuO1oL.jpg)

The LEDs were definitely harder than the switches because the solder points are so small, but it usually didn't take more than 2 tries.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:12:03
I am using that exact desolder pump, I always desolder switches first try, but those leds were crazy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:28:54
I am using that exact desolder pump, I always desolder switches first try, but those leds were crazy.

Huh, weird! I suppose it also depends on the PCB.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:48:46
I am using that exact desolder pump, I always desolder switches first try, but those leds were crazy.

Huh, weird! I suppose it also depends on the PCB.
I desoldered the leds on a QFR as well and they were incredibly easy, filcos use solder through the enter hole which makes desoldering difficult. (this is what I have read)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:49:34
I desoldered the leds on a QFR as well and they were incredibly easy, filcos use solder through the enter hole which makes desoldering difficult. (this is what I have read)

Yep, I've read the same thing too. This must be the difference.

- QFR user
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internet Friend on Sat, 28 December 2013, 11:46:37
When people in this thread recommend the Soldapullt, is there a particular model they mean? Because I just received a DS017 which explosively disassembled itself the first time I tried to use it. I pressed the plunger down the way the package shows and the plunger return spring popped out of the side. Now it was locked in place so I pressed the trigger to release it, which resulted in the trigger launching itself across the room. Even if I can put this back together I don't know where the trigger spring has gotten to. :(

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Glissant on Sat, 28 December 2013, 11:50:52
I've been using the DS017 for about six-seven months now without any issue. If you got a genuine one; and not the knockoff, then I suggest you contact Edsyn (http://www.edsyn.com/index.php) right away.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 28 December 2013, 13:07:13
When people in this thread recommend the Soldapullt, is there a particular model they mean? Because I just received a DS017 which explosively disassembled itself the first time I tried to use it. I pressed the plunger down the way the package shows and the plunger return spring popped out of the side. Now it was locked in place so I pressed the trigger to release it, which resulted in the trigger launching itself across the room. Even if I can put this back together I don't know where the trigger spring has gotten to. :(

There are some Soldapullts clones which might not be of very good quality.  Did you order from an authorized reseller or some trustworthy place or just eBay or a third party seller?

I just desoldered the two leds on my filco... It took a good 30 mins to get them to come off, I realized I needed to prop the board up and just pull each side out while I heated the solder because there was no way all the solder was coming out.

Yep, Filco PCBs are double-sided, and you really can't remove all the solder filaments from the copper inserts unless you use some fancy equipment, like perhaps Hakko 808.  Pulling is what I've had to do with them for switches as well, and I've desoldered 2 full TKL Filco PCBs to replace plates/switches.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 03:50:37
When people in this thread recommend the Soldapullt, is there a particular model they mean? Because I just received a DS017 which explosively disassembled itself the first time I tried to use it. I pressed the plunger down the way the package shows and the plunger return spring popped out of the side. Now it was locked in place so I pressed the trigger to release it, which resulted in the trigger launching itself across the room. Even if I can put this back together I don't know where the trigger spring has gotten to. :(


this is impossible on a genuine DS017 for a number of reasons. i'm sorry to say that you definitely have a counterfeit :(

my best suggestion is to work on getting a refund. the geekhackers store is still carrying and has stock of DS017s and DS017GHs (mechanical improvements) for immediate shipment. feel free to PM me to order. I am also still carrying everything that was on the temporary store and more; i had an interruption in my ability to do business and have been working on a proper shop launch since then, so ignore the dust and just let me know what you need :)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Sun, 29 December 2013, 04:04:19
I just desoldered the two leds on my filco... It took a good 30 mins to get them to come off, I realized I needed to prop the board up and just pull each side out while I heated the solder because there was no way all the solder was coming out.
I think this is best way,i've tried and succesed i used pump desolder regular :)
Sure, here you go:
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Internet Friend on Sun, 29 December 2013, 12:43:25
I'm getting a refund on the Soldapullt, I bought it on Amazon from seller LDBMART. For reference, this is what I received (minus the missing trigger spring): http://i.imgur.com/6AOI80S.jpg
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 29 December 2013, 12:43:50
Has anyone used this solder for resoldering switches?
http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU (http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 13:02:24
Has anyone used this solder for resoldering switches?
http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU (http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU)

Use this one instead:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-60-40-031-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/321229207049
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 15:53:08
I'm getting a refund on the Soldapullt, I bought it on Amazon from seller LDBMART. For reference, this is what I received (minus the missing trigger spring): http://i.imgur.com/6AOI80S.jpg
that is an extremely good fake. however, it is a fake. a couple things give it away. i will grab a pullt and take a couple pics in a minute.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 16:10:10
asdklfjaslkdfjlkasdflkj

i just wrote out a very long post pointing out many things about genuine vs counterfeit soldapullts but an HTTP failure ate it up. i will edit this post later to point things out, but in the meantime, there are some bits are are very easy to spot, so here's a link to the gallery:

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/x3cbkj04j1ot3y5/JltPdWRsY4
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 16:13:28
If you click to go back, generally the original draft remains (in Chrome anyway).  I've had the HTTP error happen a bunch of time, and I usually am able to retrieve my draft by going backwards then copying it to save.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 16:32:02
the post is quite gone. i'll summarize it quickly:

1) there should be plastic flash (excess plastic) around the nameplate (the nameplate part of the mold is actually modular. at some point we will get geekhack.org molded into our pullts :) ).

2) the pad printing of the model number on the packet should have all kinds of weird defects in it (it's old)

3) the piston rod is STEEL, not black plastic <-- VERY IMPORTANT!!

4) the button and piston rod retainer are completely captive. even if you pull all the springs off, they will stay in place.

5) the yellow or black butt-end is a form of rubber
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melanic on Sun, 29 December 2013, 17:10:56
Has anyone used this solder for resoldering switches?
http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU (http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU)

Use this one instead:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-60-40-031-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/321229207049
Would 20' be enough to solder a 60% or TKL keyboard? Assuming MX Cherry switches, diodes, LEDs and resistors.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 17:11:51
Yeah should be plenty for that :)  You shouldn't be using globs of solder for each joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 17:23:59
Has anyone used this solder for resoldering switches?
http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU (http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-am31605-4oz-032elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU)

Use this one instead:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-60-40-031-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/321229207049
actually, i'm going to have to take issue with that. that solder is not eutectic, nor is it thin enough in diameter for clean joints on small DIP parts.

also, since it's on ebay, it's almost certainly expired.

ideally, the parameters you want are in kester 63sb/37pb RA 0.02 or 0.03. the geekhackers store will launch with this item in bite-sized chunks. in the meantime, it seems like there's a lot of activity, and i can run a small GB for the entire learn to solder kit with this item included.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 17:38:59
Oops, it's my bad--I linked the wrong kind :(  This is the one I meant, from the same seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-63-37-031-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/221299280136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3386770908

There's also a thinner kind:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-63-37-025-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/221280993487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33856000cf

The first link I originally posted was what someone asked me if it was okay, and I had that saved for the seller :(  Sorry!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 29 December 2013, 18:27:10
Oops, it's my bad--I linked the wrong kind :(  This is the one I meant, from the same seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-63-37-031-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/221299280136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3386770908

There's also a thinner kind:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20-Feet-of-Kester-44-Solder-Wire-63-37-025-Rosin-Core-FREE-SHIPPING-/221280993487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33856000cf

The first link I originally posted was what someone asked me if it was okay, and I had that saved for the seller :(  Sorry!

Ahh. ty
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 18:35:46
that solder is almost certainly expired. also, 20' is about 5g of 0.025" solder. i would not buy from that seller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 18:41:19
He's got good feedback for that solder, and $5 shipped is not much money.  But sure, could ask the seller for details.  If Geekhackers is selling Kester 44 separately in small amounts, I'd happily refer people to that route  :thumb:

P.S.: should listen to mkawa, he knows his soldering stuff :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 18:45:34
[4:37:21 PM] Kirkle: expired solder
[4:37:22 PM] Kirkle: wat
[4:37:25 PM] Kirkle: how does metal expire
[4:37:32 PM] Kirkle: *insert huehuehue*
[4:40:47 PM] ming: oxidization
[4:40:59 PM] ming: lead is a highly volatile metal
[4:41:08 PM] ming: and it has a corrosive substance in the center of the strand

if one is lucky, the flux just becomes much less corrosive by eating away at the lead from the inside, and the lead will oxidize from the outside. in the worst case the strands can burst open and then the solder is nearly useless.

geekhackers.org will be selling unexpired solder, 30g for about 10$ including a dispenser. i have actually already sold this package to a number of people on the forums. if you can wait a little bit, it will go up on the store and not be cheated out of 5 hard earned dollars ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 19:48:06
also just fyi, this is actual label on a spool of kester 44:

[attach=1]

such spools are also received with full materials handling data which documents every hand the spool passed through from the factory to your door.

notice that the ebay seller has strategically blanked out the DOM and lot number. there is a spot market for expired tooling and consumables the same way there is a spot market for anything else used in industrial processes. one way for a factory owner to cut costs and make extra margin on a manufacturing contract is to buy materials off this spot market and try to foil any quality control measures taken by the firm on the other side of the contract. some of this material also makes its way to the consumer market via ebay and other markets where traceability is difficult and consumers are not very discerning.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 29 December 2013, 20:02:19
and here's what an ounce of 0.02" solder looks like

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 29 December 2013, 21:30:25
Ahh. Thanks for the info mkawa. I'm a total soldering noob :P
I guess I'll probably have to buy the $30 roll (amazon) unless anyone knows somewhere better to get it. Any recommendations would be very helpful.
Also, is 0.031'' too big for switch soldering?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 29 December 2013, 21:36:07
Ahh. Thanks for the info mkawa. I'm a total soldering noob :P
I guess I'll probably have to buy the $30 roll (amazon) unless anyone knows somewhere better to get it. Any recommendations would be very helpful.
Also, is 0.031'' too big for switch soldering?

mkawa actually sells it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can probably just PM him to place an order :).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 21:40:13
0.031" is just fine for switch soldering and larger projects. 

You can wait for mkawa to reopen the geekhackers store for fresh cuts of Kester 44 off 1lb spools.  He said so above:
"geekhackers.org will be selling unexpired solder, 30g for about 10$ including a dispenser. i have actually already sold this package to a number of people on the forums. if you can wait a little bit, it will go up on the store and not be cheated out of 5 hard earned dollars"

If you want to do smaller scale soldering, 0.02" size will give you much greater control.  ~0.03" is okay for just switches and a few LEDs.  If you need solder asap, you can always get some MG Chemicals 63/37 variety.  I've gotten a couple rolls from Amazon and used some for a keyboard.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(It was $2.85 when I ordered it, but Amazon likes to randomly raise and lower prices on stuff over time)

But ~0.02" is significantly nicer to use though along with a fine tip soldering iron, as you'll make much neater joints (and I don't think MG Chemicals offers that diameter for their 63/37 solder).  Kester 44 also has a more active flux in it for cleaner joints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 29 December 2013, 21:56:13
0.031" is just fine for switch soldering and larger projects. 

You can wait for mkawa to reopen the geekhackers store for fresh cuts of Kester 44 off 1lb spools.  He said so above:
"geekhackers.org will be selling unexpired solder, 30g for about 10$ including a dispenser. i have actually already sold this package to a number of people on the forums. if you can wait a little bit, it will go up on the store and not be cheated out of 5 hard earned dollars"

If you want to do smaller scale soldering, 0.02" size will give you much greater control.  ~0.03" is okay for just switches and a few LEDs.  If you need solder asap, you can always get some MG Chemicals 63/37 variety.  I've gotten a couple rolls from Amazon and used some for a keyboard.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00425DZGK/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(It was $2.85 when I ordered it, but Amazon likes to randomly raise and lower prices on stuff over time)

But ~0.02" is significantly nicer to use though along with a fine tip soldering iron, as you'll make much neater joints (and I don't think MG Chemicals offers that diameter for their 63/37 solder).  Kester 44 also has a more active flux in it for cleaner joints.

Ahh, thanks. When can I expect geekhackers to reopen?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 1pq on Sun, 29 December 2013, 22:00:10
Also, since I'm on a pretty tight budget, do you think any of the other items mentioned in the OP are necessary for desoldering/resoldering the switches on my tkl besides a Weller WLC100, radio shack solder sucker and kester 44? Can I get away with just that stuff?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 22:06:20
Scratch the radioshack iron and get a Soldapullt--from mkawa or from an official reseller (no third party resellers--too many inferior clones around).  RS iron + all the tips you'll go through when using it over time will cost more if you buy it brand new at RadioShack than a Soldapullt.  And Soldapullt has better suction.  On a budget, for occasional soldering, the Weller iron should be okay, though I'd recommend getting a finer chisel tip for it than the one it comes with.  I've used that iron for 3 keyboards, and everything went smoothly.

Things you need at a minumim on a tight budget would be 1. soldering iron, 2. Soldapullt, 3. Solder, 4. some sort of a sponge (Weller WLC100 comes with one)--you can also go for a brass "wool" sponge to complement.  You technically don't need flux or a desoldering braid, though they can be handy depending on what you're doing.  If you don't do any SMD soldering and just swap switches in one board, those 4 things are sufficient.  You don't really need a tip tinner either--you can tin the soldering iron tip with your solder line.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sun, 29 December 2013, 22:15:36
Also, I know some people use the Weller with great success, but I would still recommend the Yihua 936 over the Weller WLC-100 for the under $50 budget setup.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 29 December 2013, 22:19:06
I didn't recommend that one because of Photekq's experience :(  But if you want to gamble on longevity, it's certainly a cheaper alternative with temperature control.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 30 December 2013, 02:04:56
Ahh. Thanks for the info mkawa. I'm a total soldering noob :P
I guess I'll probably have to buy the $30 roll (amazon) unless anyone knows somewhere better to get it. Any recommendations would be very helpful.
Also, is 0.031'' too big for switch soldering?


mkawa actually sells it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but you can probably just PM him to place an order :).
yes, that's correct.

i violently disagree with any recommendation of the yihua 936. after seeing photekq's heater, i believe them to be outright dangerous.

i don't like the wlc100. i used it for years and it is glacially slow to do pretty much anything. that said, it won't electrocute you.

under 50$, my recommendation is either:

the hakko dash 25W

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-DASH-Soldering-Iron-25W/dp/B00FZPUQ22/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388389919&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+dash

weller wp35

http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WP35-35-Watt-Professional-Soldering/dp/B000B5YIYS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388390108&sr=8-1&keywords=weller+wp35

or i would spend the extra 10 dollars to get the special edysn value pack (that i cannot offer, it is not given to line distributors)

http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481-K

i designed my learn to solder kit to be an uprated and more complete version of this kit --- i include the sturdier versions of each tip, the full ds017gh soldapullt, cutters that will take a bit longer to dull, unexpired solder with a higher quality holder, etc. however, edsyn does still stock the parts of this kit and will send one to you for that price. if you are severely budget constrained, this is by far the best iron of the three i've listed, and as long as you think of the rest of the parts of the kit as expendable and consumable, you will not be disappointed.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 30 December 2013, 10:40:35
The first two of those irons are fixed at 450C, so be careful not heating joint areas for too long if you get those.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Mon, 30 December 2013, 11:26:11
Hakko fx-600 and 933 are temperature controlled and they are sub-$50 range, me thinks.
933 is discontinued but if it is available at low cost I'd recommend it. You can use 900 series tips on 933 and very cheap clone tips and option parts are available on ebay Chinese sellers.

But I'd buy FX-888d at $90 instead of paying $50 for those irons if I'm in US. That price looks to me a good deal, it costs me around $130-150 in Japan.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 30 December 2013, 13:25:09
in the US only the 601 is available and it is in the 70$ range. i can't recommend the 888d anymore after my experience with it. first, it's precise but not accurate. the microcontroller is very good at grabbing a temperature value from the temperature measurement device, but the temperature measurement device is extremely inaccurate over time, its calibration wanders to the point of uselessness. second, the heater is simply too small for the amount of power it dissipates. at my duty cycle, i was looking at a new heater every 8-9 months maximum, and worse, the heater is soldered directly to the iron board. there are no quick disconnects (unlikely, say, the 808).

re: the non-temperature controlled wp35 and the hakko dash line: both heat up to a maximum of 450C, but actual temperature will fluctuate due to the lack of temperature regulation hardware. this is actually a fine thing if you use your iron properly. however, it's a little hotter than i'd like. the cl1481 maxes out at about 400C, which i'm much more comfortable with. that is hot enough to desolder dreadful lead-free solder and replace it with leaded solder (yay), but it's significantly more difficult to burn a board at a max of 400C.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 13:27:54
in the US only the 601 is available and it is in the 70$ range. i can't recommend the 888d anymore after my experience with it. first, it's precise but not accurate. the microcontroller is very good at grabbing a temperature value from the temperature measurement device, but the temperature measurement device is extremely inaccurate over time, its calibration wanders to the point of uselessness. second, the heater is simply too small for the amount of power it dissipates. at my duty cycle, i was looking at a new heater every 8-9 months maximum, and worse, the heater is soldered directly to the iron board. there are no quick disconnects (unlikely, say, the 808).

re: the non-temperature controlled wp35 and the hakko dash line: both heat up to a maximum of 450C, but actual temperature will fluctuate due to the lack of temperature regulation hardware. this is actually a fine thing if you use your iron properly. however, it's a little hotter than i'd like. the cl1481 maxes out at about 400C, which i'm much more comfortable with. that is hot enough to desolder dreadful lead-free solder and replace it with leaded solder (yay), but it's significantly more difficult to burn a board at a max of 400C.



When can we get one of your kits?  My body is ready.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 30 December 2013, 13:42:50
When can we get one of your kits?  My body is ready.

Now (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52851.0).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 13:53:31
When can we get one of your kits?  My body is ready.

Now (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52851.0).

Thanks!  If there is still a kit left in a couple weeks I will get one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:12:20
Well, balls. I've gone and lifted a pad because I was too impatient to wait for mkawa's group buy and used the super ****ty (and too hot) iron that I had. I've had success before on a QFR, but something's different about the Poker II I'm working on now and pads are liftin' willy nilly.

What can I do to fix this? There's really only one solder joint that's messed up. (I stopped once I realized what was happening and am going to wait for better tools to finish this job.)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:21:37
Sounds like you're touching the iron to the PCB for too long.  You want to just make the contact with switch pins and a bit of contact with the rings framing the hole the pins go into and for only so long as to melt the solder.  Be ready with a soldapullt in your other hand and suck in the molten solder asap.  That shouldn't lift any pads.  If you still have some filaments remaining deep in the holes and can't get it out easily, heat JUST the switch pins with your soldering iron and pull on the switch from the other side (I prop them with a small flat screw driver until the switches pop out, as I heat one pin then the other, then back to the first).  There's no reason to hold your iron on the PCB for long, as the solder melts pretty quickly.  If you use a soldering braid, that could definitely damage the surface of the traces from overheating.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:29:56
Sounds like you're touching the iron to the PCB for too long.  You want to just make the contact with switch pins and a bit of contact with the rings framing the hole the pins go into and for only so long as to melt the solder.  Be ready with a soldapullt in your other hand and suck in the molten solder asap.  That shouldn't lift any pads.  If you still have some filaments remaining deep in the holes and can't get it out easily, heat JUST the switch pins with your soldering iron and pull on the switch from the other side (I prop them with a small flat screw driver until the switches pop out, as I heat one pin then the other, then back to the first).  There's no reason to hold your iron on the PCB for long, as the solder melts pretty quickly.  If you use a soldering braid, that could definitely damage the surface of the traces from overheating.

Thanks for this advice. Is there anything to be done for the ring that's already lifted?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:34:39
Can you post a photo?  Is the ring physically detached from the trace or is it just looking lifted?  Or is it a copper insert that was removed from the other side of the PCB?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:38:49
Can you post a photo?  Is the ring physically detached from the trace or is it just looking lifted?  Or is it a copper insert that was removed from the other side of the PCB?

Sorry, I can't get a high quality enough photo. The ring is physically detached from the trace :(. Here's a picture I've found of something similar (the upper right one):

(http://home.comcast.net/~machrone/bjr/cleaned_board.jpg)

Edit: it actually seems like the page that picture came from (http://home.comcast.net/~machrone/bjr/mistakes.htm) has a solution…
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:40:28
Oh :(  Looks like you'll need to use some copper wire to connect the traces with the pins there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 14:42:34
Yep, that seems to be the solution. Pretty frustrated with myself at the moment…  :-[
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 30 December 2013, 15:26:07
Pokers are the biggest pains in the ass to desolder.  Don't feel too bad.

I've pulled pads on pokers with everything I've ever used to desolder, including my fx-808.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Mon, 30 December 2013, 15:29:00
Pokers are the biggest pains in the ass to desolder.  Don't feel too bad.

I've pulled pads on pokers with everything I've ever used to desolder, including my fx-808.

That makes me feel quite a bit better, at least. Since you seem to have some experience desoldering pokers, do you have anything to add to Photoelectric's suggestions? (They seem great, but I figure more opinions/experience can't hurt.)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 30 December 2013, 16:58:23
Pokers are the biggest pains in the ass to desolder.  Don't feel too bad.

I've pulled pads on pokers with everything I've ever used to desolder, including my fx-808.

That makes me feel quite a bit better, at least. Since you seem to have some experience desoldering pokers, do you have anything to add to Photoelectric's suggestions? (They seem great, but I figure more opinions/experience can't hurt.)

No, her recommendations are solid. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 30 December 2013, 21:57:43
to truly repair a lifted pad like that, be it a thru-hole or an smt pad, a rework plant would epoxy a new pad to that spot using fine tweezers, lots of magnification and a steady hand. that said, generally the easiest way to repair lifted pads is to expose some copper trace nearby, tin that and solder a fine 26 or 28ga wire to it then head on over to where you need to get the current to. copper tape (or as hasu would say, cupper tape :D) with conductive acrylic adhesive is also an option but you have to be very careful with soldering to it as the acrylic adhesive will melt quickly and your iron will take the tape with it.

generally, for any very tricky rework, the answer is a) hot air, b) find another place that is electrically connected to the place you screwed up, c) give up!

i use tactic c quite a bit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 31 December 2013, 00:11:51
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 31 December 2013, 00:30:33
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

I just checked and Abra does not have the right ones.  Not sure, I will let you know if I come up with somewhere...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 31 December 2013, 00:50:16
how about newark/element13? they're actually UK based and probably have a CA warehouse..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:08:19
how about newark/element13? they're actually UK based and probably have a CA warehouse..
Newark/element14 seems to have a minimum order of 3000.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:13:09
yeeeurgghhh
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:14:03
wait! aha! i have a package for you that _has not gone out_. PM me!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 31 December 2013, 01:18:47
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 31 December 2013, 03:01:19
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-0805-1uf-25V-10-X7R-CERAMIC-MLCC-CAPACITOR-VJ0805Y104KXXAMT-VITRAMON-/111047522958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19daf2ba8e

would this be along the lines of what I'm looking for?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 31 December 2013, 07:01:43
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-0805-1uf-25V-10-X7R-CERAMIC-MLCC-CAPACITOR-VJ0805Y104KXXAMT-VITRAMON-/111047522958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19daf2ba8e

would this be along the lines of what I'm looking for?

Anything here (http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=0805+%28%220.1%22%2C%22.1%22%29+uf+x7r&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&LH_PrefLoc=3&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X100+0805+%28%220.1%22%2C%22.1%22%29+uf+x7r&_nkw=100+0805+%28%220.1%22%2C%22.1%22%29+uf+x7r&_sacat=0) will work, just go with whatever is cheapest total to ship..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Tue, 31 December 2013, 15:43:33
Any idea where I could purchase SMD capacitors in Canada besides mouser? Mouser charges $20 on all orders to Canada and I only need like 1 piece plus maybe 2 extras. Or if anyone has any SMD capacitors they could sell to me and send my way that would be awesome. For reference the part # is VJ0805Y104JXXAC

Mouser page: http://ca.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=ZbfMKpEdk/fFmaIB3w5%252bbA==

There's a ton of them on fleabay. Search for 0.1 uf 0805. Add X7R to the search if you need the same tolerances (unlikely).. if you need 25v, voltage can also be higher (50v, etc) without a problem.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-pcs-0805-1uf-25V-10-X7R-CERAMIC-MLCC-CAPACITOR-VJ0805Y104KXXAMT-VITRAMON-/111047522958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19daf2ba8e

would this be along the lines of what I'm looking for?

Anything here (http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=0805+%28%220.1%22%2C%22.1%22%29+uf+x7r&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&LH_PrefLoc=3&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X100+0805+%28%220.1%22%2C%22.1%22%29+uf+x7r&_nkw=100+0805+%28%220.1%22%2C%22.1%22%29+uf+x7r&_sacat=0) will work, just go with whatever is cheapest total to ship..

Is it fine to use third party brands?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phatdood9 on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:26:10
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kolonelkadat on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:46:07
aim brand no-clean version
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=aim+solder+paste

I wouldnt buy from amazon/ebay. solder paste doesnt have a long shelf life. like 4 months tops really. best to get it from a reputable dealer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phatdood9 on Wed, 01 January 2014, 19:54:38
just placed an order from mouser/digikey a couple days ago too  ;D

thanks, gonna grab a tube
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dragonxx21 on Thu, 02 January 2014, 16:04:46
How worthwhile is it to get tin tipper over using solder to tin your tip?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 02 January 2014, 16:47:50
How worthwhile is it to get tin tipper over using solder to tin your tip?

hopefully someone can give some feedback on this because I have wondered the same thing.  I always just use solder to tin my tips...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 02 January 2014, 21:24:34
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste. a small stainless steel probe or the fine tip of a spudger can be used to lay it down on traces for hot air.

i believe, but am not sure, that tip tinners are usually significantly more corrosive than solder. as an example, kester 44 actually comes in a wide range of flux formulas, from those that are basically inert, to those that are only very mildly corrosive, all the way up to what are basically organic solvents (usually halides) in the center of the drawn wire. if you know you are only going to be tinning a tip with a particular bowl of solder, you can change the flux formula to one that is ridiculously corrosive, and ta-da, clean tip every time!

personally, i prefer ye olde scrubbing and just using lots of fresh activated rosin (aka RA) and solder to tin my tips. once upon a time, i used a much more corrosive flux and various old school multicore solders that were very very corrosive, and in retrospect i actually had more oxidization and trouble with my tips then, because a) they were kind of junky compared to what i use now -- sorry VERY junky --, and b) i didn't use them enough or keep good control of my tip temperature. i would crank everything up to 11 when i wanted heat and then back off a little after i'd made a joint.

now, i tend to just keep the RA flowing, and have a good rhythm that keeps my tip temp fairly steady; even if i were using my old setup, it would be much more stable now (which is of course the point of not starting to solder with the fanciest thing around. you build bad habits quite quickly).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 02 January 2014, 21:40:49
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste.

Would I be able to get the same effect without actually using a mortar and pestle by just sticking a glob of flux on the end of my solder wire and then bringing the solder down over the top of my tip?  I feel like that would be a lot less work for the same effect, but maybe I am just crazy...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kolonelkadat on Thu, 02 January 2014, 21:51:04
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste.

Would I be able to get the same effect without actually using a mortar and pestle by just sticking a glob of flux on the end of my solder wire and then bringing the solder down over the top of my tip?  I feel like that would be a lot less work for the same effect, but maybe I am just crazy...
lol wut? no. solder paste is small balls of solder suspended in whatever flux concoction. What you suggest would simply boil away the flux before it had a chance to do its job. if you dont want to use solder paste, you can always hand solder.


How worthwhile is it to get tin tipper over using solder to tin your tip?
what is tin tipper? Ive never heard of it. Google says its toy trucks.

Just use RA core solder and youll be fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:07:22
can someone recommend a good solder paste? I can only find flux paste on amazon  :confused:
buy a mortar and pestle instead. mix fresh rosin with solder and grind away. tada! fresh solder paste.

Would I be able to get the same effect without actually using a mortar and pestle by just sticking a glob of flux on the end of my solder wire and then bringing the solder down over the top of my tip?  I feel like that would be a lot less work for the same effect, but maybe I am just crazy...
lol wut? no. solder paste is small balls of solder suspended in whatever flux concoction. What you suggest would simply boil away the flux before it had a chance to do its job. if you dont want to use solder paste, you can always hand solder.

Sorry I was confusing solder paste with flux.  My bad, I'm a noob...  :)  Not sure how my thought process is different from just using RA core solder which you are suggesting though.  I have been using RA core solder to tin my tips and I am happy with the result, so I guess you have a point.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kolonelkadat on Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:33:17
Sorry I was confusing solder paste with flux.  My bad, I'm a noob...  :)  Not sure how my thought process is different from just using RA core solder which you are suggesting though.  I have been using RA core solder to tin my tips and I am happy with the result, so I guess you have a point.  :)

solder paste is for smt soldering in a reflow oven. it has nothing to do with soldering irons. Im sorry if my post was confusing
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 02 January 2014, 22:33:39
Got rid of some stuff that hasn't passed the muster, added things that have popped up that are good and edited layout of op a bit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 02 January 2014, 23:05:26
Sorry I was confusing solder paste with flux.  My bad, I'm a noob...  :)  Not sure how my thought process is different from just using RA core solder which you are suggesting though.  I have been using RA core solder to tin my tips and I am happy with the result, so I guess you have a point.  :)

solder paste is for smt soldering in a reflow oven. it has nothing to do with soldering irons. Im sorry if my post was confusing

or with hot air. a reflow oven is basically just a clean convection oven. hence you can get the same effect out of a hand-tool by directing the hot air to the pasty joints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cirrus82 on Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:12:02
Does anyone have thoughts regarding the Weller WX1?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:16:47
Does anyone have thoughts regarding the Weller WX1?
YUCK

that's all i've got.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cirrus82 on Wed, 08 January 2014, 12:22:40
Does anyone have thoughts regarding the Weller WX1?
YUCK

that's all i've got.

Because of how it looks or is it just sucky?  I might be able to get one that's pretty new for half off... not worth it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 08 January 2014, 13:03:52
ridiculously high power with a very very tiny tip is exactly the opposite of how hand soldering should be done. you only technically need 30W of power flowing through your tip to solder like any joint at all in anything but like huge brazed pipes. it's all about surface area. a watt is actually a time denominational unit. one watt is one joule of energy per sec. however, you can only fit so many joules through any given thermal path. the number of joules per unit time is dependent on the surface area of the contact patch. hence, want to solder a big fat joint? put a big fat tip on your low power (so that you don't burn anything) heater. want to solder very small things? put a smaller tip on your low power heater. in the former case you'll flow the maximum amount of energy per unit time. in the latter case, you can titrate the amount of power that flows through the joint and hence the heat of the joint.

and this brings up a very very important distinction. fixed temperature irons only aim to regulate the temperature of the TIP. they don't say anything about how hot the joint will get. so if you have a 200W heater, and you shove 200j/s into a very small joint (say with a properly sized tip), you will burn the crap out of whatever you're soldering.

the weller wx line is basically designed for sell sheet numbers and cosmetics. it is not a good iron, even if you are an expert solderer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cirrus82 on Wed, 08 January 2014, 13:19:30
Awesome information, thank you!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 08 January 2014, 14:10:07
So the WX1/2 system has had me eyebrow raising, although I haven't tried it myself (yet?). Although the temperature is variable, it's only variable depending on the attached pencil, of which there are, wait for it - /FIVE/. 40, 65, 80, 120, and 200 watts, each with different tip lineups. WTF.

One possible reason for this, of course, is that they don't use integrated heaters in the tips like most other high end soldering stations. With the heater in the iron itself, and the high power potential of the station, this would provide for too much temperature variance at the tip itself based on thermal masses of the tip and piece that you're soldering. So I'm guessing that they went with this option because they didn't have much of a choice unless they redesign their entire system.

The downsides that this presents are basically that the costs involved of getting the station plus the power potential irons that one would like can get fairly ridiculous. Temperature stability is not very good due to sensor being down in the heater instead of at the tip. On the plus side, the heat up times and thermal recovery are going to be pretty damn good (under 3 sec from what I've seen) due to the massive (potential) power output of the station, and the station itself probably has the most amount of easily accessible features (with a proper GUI to boot) that I've ever seen in its price range. Automatic sleep mode with accelerometer in particular is very nifty. In addition, because the tips are 'dumb', their prices will generally be slightly cheaper than that of those with integrated heaters.

So on the whole, I'd say it's worth a try especially if it's used under $200 or so, comes with the 80 or 120 watt iron (most tip options on these), and the stand. At that price it could be flipped on ebay easily at a slighly higher price if it doesn't meet your needs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cirrus82 on Wed, 08 January 2014, 14:31:45
I think he said it came with the 65 watt iron and a small 0.25 mm round tip.

This site claims the sensor is in the "pencil" (iron):
http://www.apexhandtools.com/weller/np_industrial.cfm
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 08 January 2014, 14:52:59
The 65 watt one doesn't have much options in terms of tips - you can see http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/weller/tips_pricelist.htm#XNT_Series_ for the list. Only cylindrical and chisel options are provided in small sizes, so for typical soldering you'd only use the larger chisels, as I wouldn't recommend pointy geometries. Decent choice for SMT, but I'd prefer at least one more hoof tip size option (gull wing in weller terms) for soldering QFPs and such. But those are apparently one tip per soldering pencil type for some reason anyway. So it's a bit limiting in that regard.

And yeah, that's what I meant - the sensor is next to the heater which is in the pencil. Oddly I don't quite see replacement heaters for these pencils - either they are certain of their extensive lifetime, or they expect you to replace the entire pencil if it burns out. Hmm. Worth further research.

Depends on price, I suppose.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:01:03
So looking at their updated brochure at http://www.apexhandtools.com/weller/PDFs/Weller%20WX%20brochure%20US.pdf I see that the XNT tip line (for the 65w pencil) has a number more tips than what some store catalogs indicate. The lineup looks much better there, but actual availability of said tips may be questionable due to newness and such.

As such, I'd be be leaning towards recommending the 65w, but it still all depends on the price that you're getting of course.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:13:39
If you want a Weller, I would go with the WES51/WESD51 or the WTCPT.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 08 January 2014, 15:27:48
the WES51 is a proven tool that has built many things that you might very well be using right now for the last 15-25 years or so. i would go with that if you want to go weller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 08 January 2014, 16:28:47
The problem with the older Weller units is that they're pretty dated by soldering standards. In my eyes, heatup times of anything more than 10 seconds is unacceptable, and the older Wellers approach a minute, which is more the area of chinese knockoff stations and the like. I'm quite brand agnostic otherwise, having had some major brand as well as various chinese stations on my bench.

My primary considerations, in no specific order are:


So there's definitely much better options at the around $100 level than buying a new WES51. Just over this weekend I saw some perfectly normal Metcal units with pencils going for $100 with free shipping that nobody was pouncing on..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cirrus82 on Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:04:14
I was going to get the whole set for $250.  I need to do some research into availability of the other XNT tips, seems like this might be too much of a hassle, especially if there's a no brainer "good" solution for $250 or less.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 08 January 2014, 19:33:03
The edsyn 951sx would be my answer.  It's like 170 direct through edsyn right now and there's myriad tips you can get for it as well.  There's a generational replacement for it coming soon called the 951sxe, but there's no hard release date on it currently. mkawa can probably tell you the differences between the two better than I.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 08 January 2014, 23:43:24
yes, i can get you a small discount on the 951sx. it is a very beefy station and one that i recommend as a workhorse station and as a competitor to the metcals of the world. the 951sxe has been announced but is not shipping yet and probably won't be for a while. between the two, i would recommend the the sx over the e.

re: parak's comments, one thing to remember about production line stations, which the wes51, metcals and edsyns all fall under is that they're designed to be on basically 24/7. one particular point i take issue with which considers this is time from off to op temp. it is simply irrelevant in a production environment as long as thermal recovery is excellent. the iron is never turned off, so why would the line manager care how long it takes to go from off to op. what does matter is standby, comfort when the heater has been on for the last 24 hours, and heater lifetime, as those are the most expensive consumables of any soldering unit. these stations are all excellent as far as those metrics are concerned.

finally, i want to make one argument against parak's suggestions which is that SMT parts more complex than simple passives should really just be worked with hot air. it's the safest, simplest way to deal with them, and allows proper SMD layouts. instead of some DIY boards that have a little SMD segment where they couldn't find a DIP package for the parts they wanted and then a vast expanse of thru-holes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 09 January 2014, 01:49:49
I don't have much experience with soldering stations, but I really like my WMRP =) https://www.google.se/search?q=weller+wd1000m&tbm=isch
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 09 January 2014, 11:19:18
re: parak's comments, one thing to remember about production line stations, which the wes51, metcals and edsyns all fall under is that they're designed to be on basically 24/7. one particular point i take issue with which considers this is time from off to op temp. it is simply irrelevant in a production environment as long as thermal recovery is excellent. the iron is never turned off, so why would the line manager care how long it takes to go from off to op. what does matter is standby, comfort when the heater has been on for the last 24 hours, and heater lifetime, as those are the most expensive consumables of any soldering unit. these stations are all excellent as far as those metrics are concerned.

Well, for production soldering the WES51 as an example is pretty subpar by modern standards. Continuous soldering eats tips all the time, and the tip replacement procedure on WES51 is pretty dated. Compare that to Oki MFR-2220 for example, where the pencil allows for not only quick change of tips by using a silicone holder, but also of the entire heater coil by simple unclipping and sliding in a new one. The tip cost is lower in such a unit because it's a 'dumb' tip, too. Of course, most other Metcal/Oki units are even better suited in this regard where the heater is in the tip (at a slightly higher per tip cost) - just grab the tip with the holder, slide it out, and slide in a new one. Not to mention the other modern conveniences like automatic sleep in cradle and temperature in the tip for better thermal control.

Thermal recovery however has direct correlation with heatup time. It's fairly simple - the tip itself has a certain amount of thermal mass that needs to be brought up to a specified temperature, which takes a certain amount of time. Suppose that we set a station to 350c, and on initial powerup it takes X time to go from 20-150c, Y time to go from 150-325c, and Z time to go from 325-350c. Any sort of soldering applies extra (and cooler) thermal mass and drops the temperature of the tip, where for convenience let's say that it's by 25 degrees C. The recovery back to 350c is still going to take Z time. So, a soldering station that can reach the overall target temperature quicker from being cold is still going to be able to keep it up faster as well, reducing thermal stress on the tips in the process.

finally, i want to make one argument against parak's suggestions which is that SMT parts more complex than simple passives should really just be worked with hot air. it's the safest, simplest way to deal with them, and allows proper SMD layouts. instead of some DIY boards that have a little SMD segment where they couldn't find a DIP package for the parts they wanted and then a vast expanse of thru-holes.

I'm not suggesting that one should try to hand solder 0201 or XSON packages, but larger sized passives, SOP, QFP, and other leaded surface mounted packages are quite solderable by hand given a good iron with a proper tip and technique as demonstrated in many guides and videos. For basic soldering of a board here and there using such parts is reasonable to not have to resort to buying custom stencils, paste, dedicated hot air and/or reflow oven, and so on. In fact drag soldering in such circumstances can sometimes be faster and safer than hot air, which can potentially warp the pcb or kill the chip if used improperly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Thu, 09 January 2014, 18:27:40
re: parak's comments, one thing to remember about production line stations, which the wes51, metcals and edsyns all fall under is that they're designed to be on basically 24/7. one particular point i take issue with which considers this is time from off to op temp. it is simply irrelevant in a production environment as long as thermal recovery is excellent. the iron is never turned off, so why would the line manager care how long it takes to go from off to op. what does matter is standby, comfort when the heater has been on for the last 24 hours, and heater lifetime, as those are the most expensive consumables of any soldering unit. these stations are all excellent as far as those metrics are concerned.
While I dont disagree with any of this, I would like to point out that OKI/metcal use the short heatup time as a selling point: They say that since it heats up quickly, you can turn it off when you go on your 30 minute break. This should extend tip life, among other things.

I left the iron on once and oxidized a brand new tip. Much sadness ensued until I bought a new one. Eventually, I'll try to repair it with something, but the last time I bought what I thought was a bottle of flux on mouser: turns out it was a bottle of something else, and was unsuitable as flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:14:27
Does anyone have recommendations for a decent multimeter for under $30, if such a thing can be found?  There seem to be a lot on Amazon for that range, but it's difficult to say which are good and which are not so good.  I started reading reviews on one that had a 4.2 out of 5 overall rating, and apparently it has a lot of issues at the same time.

I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:23:03
Does anyone have recommendations for a decent multimeter for under $30, if such a thing can be found?  There seem to be a lot on Amazon for that range, but it's difficult to say which are good and which are not so good.  I started reading reviews on one that had a 4.2 out of 5 overall rating, and apparently it has a lot of issues at the same time.

I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.

I have used a $5 DMM from Harbor Freight. It doesn't need a lot of functions at that price, nor does it need to last that long. You can just buy another. :)

Before that I used a $20 analog meter from Radio Shack.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kolonelkadat on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:33:28
I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.
as long as you know its cheap and you know not to trust it, most any one will be fine for generall faffing around. just dont expect it to be accurate to more than 1 digit.

they dont really seem to be any good below about 50usd imo
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 09 January 2014, 19:48:19
Looking at this little guy:
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-MN35-Digital-Mini-MultiMeter/dp/B0012VWR20

Extech MN35.  Reviews seem pretty good in terms of accuracy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 09 January 2014, 22:52:17
Does anyone have recommendations for a decent multimeter for under $30, if such a thing can be found?  There seem to be a lot on Amazon for that range, but it's difficult to say which are good and which are not so good.  I started reading reviews on one that had a 4.2 out of 5 overall rating, and apparently it has a lot of issues at the same time.

I need it for basic tasks, such as checking proper contact for SMD parts, etc.

If you're just using it to check continuity, it really doesn't need to be great at all.  And even checking resistors and whatnot, in most cases you won't need much accuracy (you might need to find something on the order of 700ohm, but whether it's 690 or 710 doesn't matter in most cases - like LEDs).  So like others are saying, you can probably get by with something cheap if you're just trying to put together basic things and you don't need incredible accuracy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 10 January 2014, 08:10:58
Looking at this little guy:
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-MN35-Digital-Mini-MultiMeter/dp/B0012VWR20

Extech MN35.  Reviews seem pretty good in terms of accuracy.

http://www.bdent.com/byte-brothers-bbt858l-digital-multimeter.html

^^ Don't know if that one is any good but it goes on sale for a little cheaper every once in a while.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Fri, 10 January 2014, 08:58:59
Continuity test is the most useful and often used function in my case. The fast response of buzzer is critical, this criterion comes first to me. Some cheap DMMs will have the proper function and no doubt $10 DMM is enough good for keyboard job. I have used $10 DMM for several years and had no problem.

But I guess you may get Fluke in the end after watching Dave's videoes :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 10 January 2014, 09:43:42
The nice thing with expensive DMMs is that the buzzer latches. No low and noisy buzzing like a bumble bee, instead a loud and clear BEEEEEP. That said, just about every DMM I've seen has a beepy continuity test.

There are other features on more expensive DMMs that can be useful as well, in addition to being sturdier, safer, feeling higher quality. Just the other day I used the min/max function for the first time finding out the max voltage generated in a coil when we threw a magnet past it. True RMS can be interesting as well. Come to think about it, the frequency and duty cycle function is pretty useful as well...

With that said, a $20 DMM will get you very far. The fancy features may cost more than they taste.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Fri, 10 January 2014, 10:50:45
Thanks for everyone's comments!  I ended up getting that Extech MN35 from mouser (it's $20 there) eBay: $17 shipped!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 13 January 2014, 13:57:48
Just wanted to update that I received my new multimeter today, and I my impressions from it are largely positive.  Would definitely recommend at that price.  It has good reviews too in terms of accuracy (some meters have good reviews and then a bunch of bad ones because they die fairly quickly for some reason--haven't seen anything bad for this one).  Just tested every resistor I've installed on a board as well as some other parameters, like continuity resistance through LED holes.

[attach=1]

Great for $20 or you can sometimes find it for less, like I did.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: reziak on Thu, 16 January 2014, 12:03:54
Sorry if this has been covered before. New to soldering and started working for the first time last night on my Poker 2. I successfully desoldered all the switched and LED through holes!

One of the pads started lifting up a bit on one side (the rest of is fine) as the solder didn't get sucked up by the soldapullt on the first try. I'm hoping it's okay.

My question is this: do I need to wipe the PCB/plate/switches down with anything when I'm done to make sure I don't get any lead on my fingers while typing? I have a little dog who licks ny hands and don't want to give him a dose of lead anytime I use my keyboard. There was a lot of dust from the soldapullt...ing.

Most of the stuff I find online seems to be a lot of speculation or fear-mongering - hard to find anything worth reading. Thanks for your help, everyone!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 16 January 2014, 12:13:19
Eh, your solder is 37% lead, so it's probably good practice to clean your workspace and definitely wash your hands well after you're done (as well as pick up any loose solder).  I think the only parts of the keyboard that get touched by solder would be your hands, the hole perimeters on the PCB, and switch bottoms.  Cleaning the bottom of the PCB with alcohol is generally for removing flux residue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:27:59
Gonna try and teach the wife to solder / desolder tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:43:02
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:55:06
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Thu, 16 January 2014, 21:57:55
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:01:52
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:08:17
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+
I lol'd out loud
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:32:56
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
[attach=1]

And here is the camera I am offering you.
[attach=2] [attach=3]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:37:19
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
(Attachment Link)

And here is the camera I am offering you.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Haha, that's a funny string of events.  Also, you should clean that keyboard.   :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:40:02
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
(Attachment Link)

And here is the camera I am offering you.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Haha, that's a funny string of events.  Also, you should clean that keyboard.   :thumb:

I know, I will when I take the keycaps off.  But I am too lazy and dont have another board to work on while the caps are off.  So its dirty right now...  I have some nylon brushes coming which will prompt me to clean it when they arrive...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JPG on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:46:34
Ok, tried my soldering stuff for the first time tonight.

My **** stuff I had to practice on was ... **** stuff lol. I still managed to somewhat get the hang of it even if I needed to use a much greater temperature to try to unsolder the **** stuff.

So I am still a n00b, but at least I managed to solder my first real project: My techkey card!!! And it works and does not look disastrous at all.

Well it works well, except that when you have an hybrid English/French setting on your computer, well the card does not know! So / appears as é. I will leave it as is for now.

Also, trying to align some plate mount switches on a pcb with no plate all while soldering = impossible for me.

I am still very happy with my success!

Here's some pictures (damn card is so shinny under the light, too hard for my ****ty camera)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Worst potato pics 2014!!!   Focus man!!!  Focus!!!   :))

Good job btw on your first project.  Many more to come I am sure.  :P

Thx! Btw, for the focus, imagine these where the 2 best pictures out of 20+

WTF camera are you using?  Is it literally using a potato for power?  I am spoiled in the camera department, so I should shut up now.  :P

Sorry JPG, I am an ass, so I will make it up to you.

PM me your mailing address and I will send you a first generation digital camera for FREE.  :)  It is not a good camera by any stretch, but it does focus (sometimes).  Hint, use the Macro setting when shooting close.  :)

Here is a picture that it took to prove it works.
(Attachment Link)

And here is the camera I am offering you.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Wow, thx for the offer, but I am using a sony cybershot. Must be a relatively low quality camera that's like 6 years old, but still does the job usually. But since I use it rarely, I never mess with the different modes and leave it on auto. I should try the other ones once in a while, but I am not much into photography at all lol.

I will try again tomorrow with different settings to see if I am able to do something better. If not, maybe I'll take your offer!

BTW, we should start an IC to see if people would be interested in a Montreal meet up or the likes. There used to be others from Montreal active at some point, but I have not seen other than you and me for a while. But I suck at organising things lol.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 16 January 2014, 22:58:28
Auto should be fine for focusing.  You're just not focusing somehow.  Are you pushing the shot button halfway down to focus before releasing and pushing it again to take your photo?  Might be you're holding the camera too closely to the card, so it can't focus (there's always a minimum focus distance with cameras).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 16 January 2014, 23:00:14
It's also possible that there might be something in the lens/mirror of the camera or the anti-shake isn't working right considering the age of the camera.

From my experience, if you try to auto focus and the camera can't, there will be some kind of warning and possibly even a lock out where you can't actually snap a picture.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 16 January 2014, 23:00:36
Auto should be fine for focusing.  You're just not focusing somehow.  Are you pushing the shot button halfway down to focus before releasing and pushing it again to take your photo?  Might be you're holding the camera too closely to the card, so it can't focus (there's always a minimum focus distance with cameras).

That would be my guess too.  Try taking a shot from further away - it's always better to have to crop than be out of focus.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Larken on Thu, 16 January 2014, 23:19:27
I had occasion to clean my Goot desoldering pump (essentially the same thing as a soldapult from what I can see), and thought I might as well take some pictures for those who might want to do the same for theirs. The pump can be opened up easily by twisting (self explanatory).

This is what happens to your pump after using it for a while.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7458/11990790915_e32535024e_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/11990790915/)

Note the black ring? That's the o-ring that's responsible for the suction force when the pump trigger is released. Note that there's quite abit of solder flakes on it (I cleaned it on one side before I thought I should take some pictures). The flakes will decrease the suction force. We'd want to get rid of them, or you could just wash it, but don't do it in the sink. never a good thing to dump soldering flakes into the pipeline imo. so one paper towel later:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7430/11991169874_0bc42f9de2_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/11991169874/)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7293/11990792255_f3a3a9b7d4_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/11990792255/)


after the o-ring is clean, lubing it will provide a good seal for the pump. I had quite a bit of superlube left over from keyboard lubing in the past, so that's what I used.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/11990793895_dcbd96c9d9_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/11990793895/)

cleaned and lubed (note that I used quite alot more than what was necessary - as I didn't have a brush at hand to make an even layer, but this will work):

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5501/11991604236_194f1f979a_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/11991604236/)

Close it up and it'll probably be working as good as brand new (or better, as mine didn't come factory lubed).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kayliss on Sat, 25 January 2014, 23:07:56
I need a some advice regarding a new iron. I do mostly small/fine work with a little hand SMD soldering, quite a few things more delicate than keyboards.  At the moment I'm leaning towards a JBC (http://www.jbctools.com/cd-2bc-soldering-station-for-general-purposes-product-710.html) other options are maybe a Hakko 951 or a low end Metcal, up to about $450-500USD. Options are fairly limited buying locally. Basically need something reliable/durable and that will be comfortable for long periods of use. Input would be appreciated.  :-*

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 26 January 2014, 11:46:53
these pretty wildly different stations. what kind of SMT work do you do? there is a point at which hot air is the only answer. the really tiny tipped irons like the JBCs just make it way to easy to move your wrist a little bit and end up frying your chip.

at your price range and a little above i can get you edsyn stations at a large enough discount that will pay for shipping to Aus. in particular, check out the 2020-230 and the SMT crown series of tips. the smt tips fit standard IC shapes without resorting to hot air. however, if you do a lot of smt work, i HIGHLY recommend a dual hot air station. I would heavily consider the edsyn 1036, a step-down converter and an edsyn cl1080. you can swap between hot air and contact soldering with this setup and the hot air uses a small turbine type air pump instead of a bellows style like the cheap chinese stations. the turbine is smaller, quieter, more reliable and gives more consistent air volume per unit time.

that said, if you can find a crown tip for your major smt targets, i _highly_ recommend the 2020 (the unit is actually 24vdc-powered so i refer to both the 230v and 120v versions when i say 2020). that is what i use now and would not go back to a hakko in a million years. that said, metcal does have some nice offerings if your workflow works well with tip-controlled temp.

edit: also, not to rush you, but my prices on edsyn equipment go up about between 5-10% across the board as of the 31st :(. if any of those options look good to you, moving quickly can save you a couple bucks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kayliss on Sun, 26 January 2014, 12:42:26
Well I should say the JBC station is top of my list, unless I can find a very good reason not to choose it.  :p  I actually invested in a decent stand alone hot air unit not too long ago.
The options can be quite limited here, especially when trying to work to a budget, but I'd rather get it local in case of any issues, shipping time alone makes it a pain.

How do you find the 2020 for comfort? I prefer the look of the JBC handle, I've got a buggered shoulder though, so smaller/lighter may be better for me. (I'm getting very good at soldering left handed recently!  :eek:)

An Edsyn would have been on the top of my list if they were available from one of the major Aus retailers. Anyway tomorrow is a day off here so i'll have to order something by Tuesday.

Thanks for your input Mkawa. Time for me to go looking at the Edsyn site again
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 26 January 2014, 13:39:44
2020 is pretty fantastic for comfort and general ergonomics. it's quite small, just a 6" diam control station with all the controls, including the trim pots for calibration up front and clearly marked. as i have mentioned before, the edsyn pods are amazing. they help contain heat so that very little power is used at idle and are extremely easy to clean. you just put a new piece of wax paper-ish stuff in it when the only one is pockmarked with molten solder marks. there is a standby mode that brings temperature down to min in one press then heats the iron up again in a few seconds on second press. the heater is partially exposed, unlike the fully sheathed AC heaters in some of the other units; both designs are good, but basically what's happening is that they're designing to the size of the heater. smaller heaters should be fully sheathed for strength and larger heaters (the 2020 heater is extremely large, and that it and the build is what you're paying for) can be exposed for tip contact and to minimize the effect of differential thermal expansion.

i've done a full take-apart, and it turns out that there is undocumented functionality in this board. as well. it was originally meant to be the basis for an all-in-one unit (and may still end up being that) that would do hot-air, desolder and solder all in the same station. most of the functionality is still there, and if you want to hack on it (although you void your warranty obviously), the mcu debug port is happily sitting open at the back of the unit.

anyway, for comfort, you really want a big fat handle and an appropriate amount of power going through the tip. a 50W heater that is very large and has lots of surface area is going to be a lot better than a 150W element which is tiny along with a handle that's very very small. i can see how some people might think "SMT devices are tiny! therefore i need a pinpoint tip!" but i think they're missing the point and have not learned to solder properly. soldering is about surface area. the more surface area you have in contact with a heater, the more efficient your thermal junction is going to be and the higher the diffuse temperature is going to be across the two materials. so you don't want to throw power into an iron willy nilly. that's just going to result in a lot of burned out components. you want to use as little power as possible to reach your process temp and then tune the amount of surface area in contact with the joint via different tip shapes and sizes.

finally, the usb feature on this and the weller wxp series is just plain stupid.

i don't know if there's a local aus distributor for edsyn products and my POCs won't get back to me until monday, but suspect there is. that said, i may actually be able to beat their price even after shipping. i really love these stations. they are simple and straightforward and have everything you need and nothing you don't. the layout, even internally is just ridiculously clean. this was actually one of Bill Fortune's (Bill invented the soldapullt) last projects, and it's just this beautiful paean to contact soldering.

tjcaustin also has one and loves it just as much as i do. if he wants to chime in...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 26 January 2014, 15:37:19
2020 is pretty fantastic for comfort and general ergonomics. it's quite small, just a 6" diam control station with all the controls, including the trim pots for calibration up front and clearly marked. as i have mentioned before, the edsyn pods are amazing. they help contain heat so that very little power is used at idle and are extremely easy to clean. you just put a new piece of wax paper-ish stuff in it when the only one is pockmarked with molten solder marks. there is a standby mode that brings temperature down to min in one press then heats the iron up again in a few seconds on second press. the heater is partially exposed, unlike the fully sheathed AC heaters in some of the other units; both designs are good, but basically what's happening is that they're designing to the size of the heater. smaller heaters should be fully sheathed for strength and larger heaters (the 2020 heater is extremely large, and that it and the build is what you're paying for) can be exposed for tip contact and to minimize the effect of differential thermal expansion.

i've done a full take-apart, and it turns out that there is undocumented functionality in this board. as well. it was originally meant to be the basis for an all-in-one unit (and may still end up being that) that would do hot-air, desolder and solder all in the same station. most of the functionality is still there, and if you want to hack on it (although you void your warranty obviously), the mcu debug port is happily sitting open at the back of the unit.

anyway, for comfort, you really want a big fat handle and an appropriate amount of power going through the tip. a 50W heater that is very large and has lots of surface area is going to be a lot better than a 150W element which is tiny along with a handle that's very very small. i can see how some people might think "SMT devices are tiny! therefore i need a pinpoint tip!" but i think they're missing the point and have not learned to solder properly. soldering is about surface area. the more surface area you have in contact with a heater, the more efficient your thermal junction is going to be and the higher the diffuse temperature is going to be across the two materials. so you don't want to throw power into an iron willy nilly. that's just going to result in a lot of burned out components. you want to use as little power as possible to reach your process temp and then tune the amount of surface area in contact with the joint via different tip shapes and sizes.

finally, the usb feature on this and the weller wxp series is just plain stupid.

i don't know if there's a local aus distributor for edsyn products and my POCs won't get back to me until monday, but suspect there is. that said, i may actually be able to beat their price even after shipping. i really love these stations. they are simple and straightforward and have everything you need and nothing you don't. the layout, even internally is just ridiculously clean. this was actually one of Bill Fortune's (Bill invented the soldapullt) last projects, and it's just this beautiful paean to contact soldering.

tjcaustin also has one and loves it just as much as i do. if he wants to chime in...

I don't, but I do love my 2020.  The feel and functionality is just several leagues beyond anything else I've touched.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Sun, 26 January 2014, 16:18:22
Well I should say the JBC station is top of my list, unless I can find a very good reason not to choose it.  :p  I actually invested in a decent stand alone hot air unit not too long ago.
The options can be quite limited here, especially when trying to work to a budget, but I'd rather get it local in case of any issues, shipping time alone makes it a pain.

How do you find the 2020 for comfort? I prefer the look of the JBC handle, I've got a buggered shoulder though, so smaller/lighter may be better for me. (I'm getting very good at soldering left handed recently!  :o )

An Edsyn would have been on the top of my list if they were available from one of the major Aus retailers. Anyway tomorrow is a day off here so i'll have to order something by Tuesday.

Thanks for your input Mkawa. Time for me to go looking at the Edsyn site again


Hi,
if I can help a bit here, I've recently switched to ersa. I have one of the low-end ersa models, i-CON NANO, and I absolutely love it. The iron is smaller than anything else I've used and it lays in the hand almost like a pencil. There's a decent choice of tips, it comes with a chisel of course, none of these conical things and has enough power for anything I need. It's way below your mentioned budget too. I was also checking JBC and edsyn, but in the end I chose ersa, because of lower price and the small and light iron, first of all.


EDIT: after a while, I think you might have the same kind of problem getting an Ersa as we have getting a Hakko in Europe...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 26 January 2014, 19:16:23
ersa seems to be EU only, i'm afraid :(

i'd never heard of them before now actually. nice looking stations
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kayliss on Mon, 27 January 2014, 03:24:47

I was also checking JBC and edsyn, but in the end I chose ersa, because of lower price and the small and light iron, first of all.


Thanks Komar. It seems like Farnell here stocks some Ersa products but not the nano, I'll contact them in the morning and see how I go, otherwise I'll grab the JBC. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Wed, 29 January 2014, 13:10:06
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:45:08
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube



What will you be using the SuperLube for, lubing stabilizers?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 29 January 2014, 14:55:37
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube (http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube)



What will you be using the SuperLube for, lubing stabilizers?

jd don't you lube your switches with it??

/me runs and hides
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:07:03
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

also super lube is super lube right? are there different formulas with the Super Lube brand?

i was going to buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube (http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Grease-Syncolon-Purpose-Lubricant/dp/B000XBH9HI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391022505&sr=8-1&keywords=super+lube)



What will you be using the SuperLube for, lubing stabilizers?

jd don't you lube your switches with it??

/me runs and hides

/me pulls out the hand cannon...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 29 January 2014, 15:42:12
what brand of flux do you guys recommend? there isnt a flux link on the first page with a recommended brand.

I use http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008UH4DT4 in the 125ml bottle, dispensing via a fine tipped brush. I sometimes also use Kester 951 (also in small bottle form via ebay), but only when I use fresh smt parts and pcbs where I need minimal fluxing, and even then I don't like it all that much - the smell is horrid compared to regular RMA flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Thu, 30 January 2014, 14:12:19
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 30 January 2014, 14:35:45
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Fri, 31 January 2014, 13:22:34
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(

any reason why JD? i already bought some SuperLube but it was like 3 bucks so whatever. just curious on why you are repping that brand over the seemingly favorite SuperLube?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 31 January 2014, 14:01:04
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(

any reason why JD? i already bought some SuperLube but it was like 3 bucks so whatever. just curious on why you are repping that brand over the seemingly favorite SuperLube?

:facepalm:

I could care less about a brand name for its own sake. It's all about the properties of the lubricant. SuperLube degrades over time. It's not at all as good as Krytox. 18 months ago, it was damn near impossible to get Krytox for a reasonable price, but that just isn't so anymore. There is no reason to use anything BUT Krytox for lubing switches now. Also, with SuperLube, you may have to reapply the lube periodically, to keep the switches smooth. I can't say for sure, as I've never lubed switches with SuperLube, but I have heard anecdotal evidence that this may be true.

As someone who buys keyboards seconhand quite a bit, if I bought a keyboard from someone who advertised the switches as "lubed," and they were done with SuperLube instead of Krytox, I would take issue. If you are never going to sell your keyboard to anyone, use whatever you like! :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 01 February 2014, 00:04:06
superlube is a ptfe powder lubricant suspended in various kinds of synthetic hydrocarbon. they have thick hydro, thin hydro, etc, but that's the basic idea. krytox and silicone greases use polymer substrates that are significantly less volatile. the important difference here is that they have higher operating temperatures (ie, they do not vaporize at low specific energies because they are relatively inert polymer matrices), and they do not react with plastics. superlube could very well react with your plastic parts over time, or immediately depending on which formulation you use. i do think there are more inert formulations of superlube, but i don't know enough about it, and the composition is kind of trade secrety. that said, the major characteristic of superlube is that it is the cheapest lubricant with some form of ptfe in it. that is basically it. keep in mind that this is actually the commercial goal of superlube -- to be the cheapest lubricant with ptfe in it. blaster(tm) is the only thing i know of that's cheaper and they only have a very volatile hydrocarbon formulation that's supposed to be a dry thing, but they claim that the hydrocarbon is inert or vaporizes too quickly to degrade plastics.

regardless, i have put a huge amount of time, effort and money into making krytox available for the community because it's superior in every way. krytox has two components: a PFPE oil, which is a completely flourine capped polymer substrate, and very fine ptfe powder that is processed such that it forms a matrix that contains the oil (notice how the formulation of krytox is exactly the opposite of most of these ptfe lubricants, the ptfe contains the oil instead of the other way around). the radio edit is that this allows the surface stiction of the ptfe that everyone else claims to actually happen. tension keeps the ptfe in place, and the ptfe keeps the lubridicity-providing oil in place.

further, PFPE oil can be refined and formulated such that it's one of the most inert compounds in common existence. it is a completely fluorine capped polymer; fluorine capping is valuable because fluorine is extremely volatile (ever mess with hydrofluoric acid? please don't, it's really really nasty stuff) and satisfying all its bonds means that a heck of a lot of bonds have to be broken to expose any molecules of the polymer. this makes for an incredibly inert polymer that _never goes away_. this is great for us, because desoldering a keyboard, opening every switch and lightly brushing friction surfaces is a HUGE PAIN IN THE BEHIND that you definitely do NOT WANT TO DO EVERY MONTH.

also, it's much harder to melt the ptfe in krytox than it is to melt the ptfe in any other ptfe-containing compound. this is quite good because ptfe release formaldehyde when it melts at 260C. notice that once solders between 350C (leaded solders) and 450C (unleaded solders). ventilation is also important if you have any hydrofluoric acid around. nasty nasty stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sat, 01 February 2014, 06:30:02
That was super educational, kawa! I wasn't the one with questions, but thanks for writing that out regardless :thumb:

I wish this thread were more like CPTBadAss' Q&A thread now, so that this answer could go in the OP under "Why Krytox?"
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Sun, 02 February 2014, 03:02:01
thanks parak.

JD and Spam i want to use the super lube for Ergo Clears that i intend to install on my ergo dox.

Please use Krytox instead. :(

any reason why JD? i already bought some SuperLube but it was like 3 bucks so whatever. just curious on why you are repping that brand over the seemingly favorite SuperLube?

:facepalm:

I could care less about a brand name for its own sake. It's all about the properties of the lubricant. SuperLube degrades over time. It's not at all as good as Krytox. 18 months ago, it was damn near impossible to get Krytox for a reasonable price, but that just isn't so anymore. There is no reason to use anything BUT Krytox for lubing switches now. Also, with SuperLube, you may have to reapply the lube periodically, to keep the switches smooth. I can't say for sure, as I've never lubed switches with SuperLube, but I have heard anecdotal evidence that this may be true.

As someone who buys keyboards seconhand quite a bit, if I bought a keyboard from someone who advertised the switches as "lubed," and they were done with SuperLube instead of Krytox, I would take issue. If you are never going to sell your keyboard to anyone, use whatever you like! :)

I bought a lube kit from originative because of you! ;-) -
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Beca on Sat, 08 February 2014, 04:18:03
I just soldered my first board. Used this http://www.frys.com/product/2258018.

It took forever to heat up. Surprised at how easy it is to solder switches though!

Also, I don't have any desoldering equipment, but had to remove a switch after soldering it. So I heated up the solder joints until it was liquidy and slowly pulled the pins out so I could pry it from the board. Is this okay to do?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 08 February 2014, 07:44:36
I just soldered my first board. Used this http://www.frys.com/product/2258018.

It took forever to heat up. Surprised at how easy it is to solder switches though!

Also, I don't have any desoldering equipment, but had to remove a switch after soldering it. So I heated up the solder joints until it was liquidy and slowly pulled the pins out so I could pry it from the board. Is this okay to do?
well yes and no. yes in that it gets the job done. no in that you're going to burn yourself doing that, and it will hurt. believe me, i know. that said, burning yourself (a _lot_) is one way to go about learning to solder :P

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Beca on Sun, 09 February 2014, 00:24:11
I just soldered my first board. Used this http://www.frys.com/product/2258018.

It took forever to heat up. Surprised at how easy it is to solder switches though!

Also, I don't have any desoldering equipment, but had to remove a switch after soldering it. So I heated up the solder joints until it was liquidy and slowly pulled the pins out so I could pry it from the board. Is this okay to do?
well yes and no. yes in that it gets the job done. no in that you're going to burn yourself doing that, and it will hurt. believe me, i know. that said, burning yourself (a _lot_) is one way to go about learning to solder :P
Thanks for the answer. I burned myself once already when it was barely heating up. I can't imagine how painful it would be for the molten solder to touch my skin  :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 09 February 2014, 13:13:34
it only hurts for a second, then your brain shovels dopamine like crazy and the nerve and tissue there cook and kind of die (but just a little! they get better!).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 09 February 2014, 13:16:25
it only hurts for a second, then your brain shovels dopamine like crazy and the nerve and tissue there cook and kind of die (but just a little! they get better!).

And then, depending on the size of the burn, it starts to itch like mad.  The little solder pops I've got just sting quick and are done, but I somehow laid about an inch of my soldering tip on one of my fingers and it wasn't as painful re: kawa's explanation, then it just itched for 4 days and blistered.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 09 February 2014, 15:28:56
protip: run cold water over burns for as long as possible when you first get them. helps limit the damage of the burn and accelerates healing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Mon, 10 February 2014, 06:48:40
how to solder diode to switch i've try it's quite difficult :confused:
any tutorial esay way :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 10 February 2014, 08:52:28
can you clarify? it should be quite easy to solder through-hole diodes into switches..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Mon, 10 February 2014, 09:05:39
i'cant direct hold 3 stuff (solder,tin,the diodes)if it could, it would be a mess. where is hole diode?
can you give me a pics I will better understand :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 10 February 2014, 09:27:25
He's trying direct wiring btw. As I said in the SQSA thread, put some solder on the tip first, I think that should work.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:26:20
oh, yes, for direct wiring, pop a bit of solder on each side of the joint independently then put some flux on both sides, hold in place and heat. the joint will form like magic. the trick is your hands need to be very steady or else you're going to end up with cold joints.

the better way to do this is to make sure you have a mechanical connection before trying to make the electrical connection. make little hooks out of each side of the wire and secure by interlocking the hooks, then make the electrical joint like you'd made any other electrical joint
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:28:44
What's a good way to thoroughly wash a PCB? It's a GH60 PCB and I've got all the SMD soldered up, and I cleaned each section with IPA after soldering. And yet almost the entire board is really sticky from the flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:53:00
Use a toothbrush with IPA!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:56:35
nylon brush (toothbrush works) with a solvent. IPA is ok, but sometimes (especially with old flux) you need to get draconian. chemtronics and mg chem both sell flux removers that are like every single organic solvent all at once. i've had the most success with those when i have a _lot_ of flux on a board.

also remember that once you break down the flux residue with ipa or some other solvent, warm water washes are actually really effective. just make sure you dry the board out with alcohol or time after
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 10 February 2014, 11:59:29
It's brand new chip-quik tacky flux & kester 44 flux. I'll give toothbrush + IPA a try and if that doesn't work I'll look into some flux remover. Thanks guys!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: komar007 on Mon, 10 February 2014, 12:07:20
Those LCD monitor wipes in cylindrical plastic boxes work well too. Just literally pour the board with IPA, and then wipe. Unfortunately, you'll need to remove the torn parts of the wipes afterwards.
EDIT: I meant something like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/88pcs-PC-TV-LCD-Cleaning-Wet-Wipes-Professional-Nurse-0374/391523790.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 10 February 2014, 13:48:33
I like to use petrol with a tooth brush, I've heard that is what is used in small-scale industry, at least here in India.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 10 February 2014, 20:03:57
that's probably the only thing worse for you than using pure isopropryl like i do. congrats ;P

i used to wear gloves because your body absorbs pure alcohol so readily through the skin, but a while ago i just gave in and now i'm a step away from using kerosene like moz :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 10 February 2014, 20:04:30
Those LCD monitor wipes in cylindrical plastic boxes work well too. Just literally pour the board with IPA, and then wipe. Unfortunately, you'll need to remove the torn parts of the wipes afterwards.
EDIT: I meant something like this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/88pcs-PC-TV-LCD-Cleaning-Wet-Wipes-Professional-Nurse-0374/391523790.html
these wipes are just iso on a fibrous carrier

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 11 February 2014, 01:11:17
that's probably the only thing worse for you than using pure isopropryl like i do. congrats ;P

i used to wear gloves because your body absorbs pure alcohol so readily through the skin, but a while ago i just gave in and now i'm a step away from using kerosene like moz :P

Hey, it works! Should I be worried about handling gasoline directly, bare hands?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 11 February 2014, 06:20:00
yes, yes and yes, to say the least. highly carcinogenic
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Tue, 11 February 2014, 10:28:30
This is the feeling I get about India. They just use whatever works, regardless of the consequences, they're like, "Might cause cancer? Ah, screw it." One day they may have an OSHA equivalent to safeguard the workers, but until then... :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 11 February 2014, 14:35:15
This is the feeling I get about India. They just use whatever works, regardless of the consequences, they're like, "Might cause cancer? Ah, screw it." One day they may have an OSHA equivalent to safeguard the workers, but until then... :(

Same country that still doesn't have a modern sewage system, right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 11 February 2014, 15:08:17
This is the feeling I get about India. They just use whatever works, regardless of the consequences, they're like, "Might cause cancer? Ah, screw it." One day they may have an OSHA equivalent to safeguard the workers, but until then... :(
This is the problem with my country, and we call it "jugaad", a fix that works, what we don't realize are the short-falls.

This is the feeling I get about India. They just use whatever works, regardless of the consequences, they're like, "Might cause cancer? Ah, screw it." One day they may have an OSHA equivalent to safeguard the workers, but until then... :(

Same country that still doesn't have a modern sewage system, right?
Yes, the same.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 13 February 2014, 18:15:39
How important is flux?

Oh and I finally soldered for the first time. Just the pins on a pro micro, but it was really satisfying ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 13 February 2014, 18:53:04
How important is flux?

Oh and I finally soldered for the first time. Just the pins on a pro micro, but it was really satisfying ;D

flux is super important, it helps solder flow right.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 13 February 2014, 19:08:45
How important is flux?

Oh and I finally soldered for the first time. Just the pins on a pro micro, but it was really satisfying ;D

flux is super important, it helps solder flow right.

With current offerings of flux core solder the I can't really thing of many reasons that one would need to purchase standalone flux for what the majority of us do. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 13 February 2014, 19:12:37
How important is flux?

Oh and I finally soldered for the first time. Just the pins on a pro micro, but it was really satisfying ;D

flux is super important, it helps solder flow right.

With current offerings of flux core solder the I can't really thing of many reasons that one would need to purchase standalone flux for what the majority of us do.

I was assuming he was going lead free or something.  For some reason.  Flux itself is important is what I was getting at.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Thu, 13 February 2014, 19:15:25
With current offerings of flux core solder the I can't really thing of many reasons that one would need to purchase standalone flux for what the majority of us do.
Having some standalone tacky flux is VERY helpful for SMD soldering..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 13 February 2014, 19:19:36
With current offerings of flux core solder the I can't really thing of many reasons that one would need to purchase standalone flux for what the majority of us do.
Having some standalone tacky flux is VERY helpful for SMD soldering..

Very true, I forgot about that whole can of worms as I mostly do through hole stuff.  I guess it can also be useful for when attempting to get the last tiny troublesome bits of solder from through holes on a dual sided PCB as well.

 Question for myself.  How much of a difference is there between 63/37 and 60/40.  The reason I ask is because I watched a video about that talked about the "wetting temp" of solder and that 63/37 basically would stick as soon as it was hot enough to melt.  Well this got me wondering and I looked at what I have.  It turns out the stuff I bought from radio shack was 60/40.  I haven't had any issues with it as I am probably running my iron a bit on the host side anyway.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Thu, 13 February 2014, 20:32:19
Question for myself.  How much of a difference is there between 63/37 and 60/40.  The reason I ask is because I watched a video about that talked about the "wetting temp" of solder and that 63/37 basically would stick as soon as it was hot enough to melt.  Well this got me wondering and I looked at what I have.  It turns out the stuff I bought from radio shack was 60/40.  I haven't had any issues with it as I am probably running my iron a bit on the host side anyway.
In general, 60/40 should work fine. The advantage of 63/37 is that there’s a single temperature at which it goes from all-solid to all-liquid, so it will either melt or solidify very quickly right when it crosses that temperature. 60/40 solder has a small range of temperatures that are in between the freezing/melting points, where the solder is a sort of paste of mixed solid/liquid (“plastic”). From what I understand, if the solder gets moved around while it’s in this state, it can result in a worse solder joint [it will end up looking dull instead of shiny, and can be unreliable].
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Thu, 13 February 2014, 21:12:07
With current offerings of flux core solder the I can't really thing of many reasons that one would need to purchase standalone flux for what the majority of us do.
Having some standalone tacky flux is VERY helpful for SMD soldering..

It also saved me when I was soldering things with gigantic leads, as it would have otherwise taken minutes to heat up the leads, but the flux helped a ton with flowing the solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 13 February 2014, 21:14:38
With current offerings of flux core solder the I can't really thing of many reasons that one would need to purchase standalone flux for what the majority of us do.
Having some standalone tacky flux is VERY helpful for SMD soldering..
for SMD, make your old solder paste: get a hard lacquered ceramic or stainless steel mortar and pestle and smash some solder and a bit of extra flux. suck that up with a fine tipped syringe and apply on your solder pads. then use a suction holder and blow hot air as the suction holder is holding the part on the pads. bam! ezpz smd.

if you don't have hot air, same deal but apply the contact iron very very briefly on each joint as you hold the part in place.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 13 February 2014, 21:19:58
Quote
From what I understand, if the solder gets moved around while it’s in this state, it can result in a worse solder joint [it will end up looking dull instead of shiny, and can be unreliable].
(by the way, it's glass transition, not plastic. the material is plastic during glass transition. anyway..)

a "cold" solder joint is one that has an interrupted bulk material electrically joining the two parts. in other words, there are fractures in the solid solder that is carrying current between the two materials. it's possible to create these fractures by accident regardless of whether your soldering alloy is eutectic or not, but you're much more likely to create these fractures and voids by accident with a soldering alloy that is not euctetic. it's pretty easy to see why when you think about it at a molecular lev..

bottom line: keep your joint very still when it is cooling and use euctetic solder if at all possible and you will have the highest percentage of good points. further, to "fix" cold joints with euctetic solder. you generally just melt it again (add a tiny bit of flux to get it to crystallize and to move further onto the two joined pieces) and then let it cool without putting pressure etc. on it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 14 February 2014, 19:03:55
just dropping this off here: http://tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/

tangent, as he was known on headwize and otherwise nom de guerre, was an early mentor of mine in hobbyist electronics. didn't know he made a video series. looks good!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 14 February 2014, 19:07:10
^^ tangent made me my first headphone amp :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 14 February 2014, 19:16:11
it's too bad his shop finally closed. is there any way short of custom board orders to get a pimeta v2 board these days?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 14 February 2014, 19:52:11
No idea last I did business with him was ~10yrs ago.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ishamael on Sat, 15 February 2014, 14:54:11
Would the CL1481 iron being offered in the learn to solder group but be up to the task of desoldering a QFR for practice?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 15 February 2014, 14:55:30
Would the CL1481 iron being offered in the learn to solder group but be up to the task of desoldering a QFR for practice?

Very much so
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ishamael on Sat, 15 February 2014, 15:45:28
Awesome, thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kmiller8 on Sat, 15 February 2014, 15:59:01
Would the CL1481 iron being offered in the learn to solder group but be up to the task of desoldering a QFR for practice?

Very much so

To add to this, be careful with the QFR PCB, it's ****, If you're not quick and careful with the desoldering, you will lift pads.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sat, 15 February 2014, 21:30:11
Would the CL1481 iron being offered in the learn to solder group but be up to the task of desoldering a QFR for practice?

Very much so

To add to this, be careful with the QFR PCB, it's ****, If you're not quick and careful with the desoldering, you will lift pads.

+1 to this.  I had to resolder 5 switches and I lifted 4 pads and one pad was missing a side, so the solder would not even fill correctly...  It is back to working, but what a gong show...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 16 February 2014, 13:04:27
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I am no longer a soldering virgin!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ishamael on Sun, 16 February 2014, 15:09:47
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 16 February 2014, 18:01:32
when desoldering with a soldapullt, hold your pullt off to the side, put a tiny bead of melted solder on your tinned tip, and touch that to the joint (that tiny bead is often called a heat bridge). you should see immediately when the solder in the joint melts, as it will suddenly become very shiny and may change shape slightly to become more of a perfect sphere than it was before. as soon as that happens, hit the button on your soldapullt. the suction of the GH soldapullt is so high that it doesn't have to be right on top of the joint in order to grab most if not all of the solder. holding it at a 45 degree angle with maybe 1mm separation between the tip and the solder should be enough to grab the vast majority of the solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Sun, 16 February 2014, 19:10:13
when desoldering with a soldapullt, hold your pullt off to the side, put a tiny bead of melted solder on your tinned tip, and touch that to the joint (that tiny bead is often called a heat bridge). you should see immediately when the solder in the joint melts, as it will suddenly become very shiny and may change shape slightly to become more of a perfect sphere than it was before. as soon as that happens, hit the button on your soldapullt. the suction of the GH soldapullt is so high that it doesn't have to be right on top of the joint in order to grab most if not all of the solder. holding it at a 45 degree angle with maybe 1mm separation between the tip and the solder should be enough to grab the vast majority of the solder.

So you're saying your soldapullt really sucks ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 16 February 2014, 19:11:06
bwa!

exactly ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Wildcard on Sun, 16 February 2014, 19:27:09
mkawa what's a good place to pick up a pair of Edsyn KP101 flush cutters? My Hakko CHP-170's are ready to be retired and I recall you talking about these. I ordered a pair on amazon from "Majesty Supply" but they sent me some crap $1 cutters which I promptly returned. Are there any good reputable sources you can suggest to order these from?

Also any recommendations on good ESD tweezers?

Edit: I guess I could order these directly from Edsyn, unless there's another option.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 16 February 2014, 20:53:31
edsyn's minimum order is way above the cost of a pair of kp101s. i have plenty of stock right now. i _don't_ have stock of tweezers, but edsyn's higher end tweezer line is quite nice. wiha tweezers are my go-to for fine manipulation, but i have a pair of edsyns like i like as well. i might be able to get you a small  discount on the edsyns if you can identify what size and tip-type you want.

i'm fine with sending out kp101s alone, but if you're international and you've already been through a pair of CHPs (which is perfectly normal -- they are junk), i would suggest buying a full on larsen flush cutter -- either one of their carbide series if you're doing big wire work or the smaller standard series for nipping at component legs.

ps, oddly, i am also a wiha stalwart but i absolutely don't recommend wiha cutters anymore. the only pair i have that have held up was the wiha germany bevel head and it's more expensive than the equivalent larsen and has a much less beefy joint. it's full polish, and the box joint is definitely high quality, but the larsens just blow it out of the water.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 16 February 2014, 23:03:13
[...] i would suggest buying a full on larsen flush cutter -- either one of their carbide series if you're doing big wire work or the smaller standard series for nipping at component legs.

ps, oddly, i am also a wiha stalwart but i absolutely don't recommend wiha cutters anymore. the only pair i have that have held up was the wiha germany bevel head and it's more expensive than the equivalent larsen and has a much less beefy joint. it's full polish, and the box joint is definitely high quality, but the larsens just blow it out of the water.
I bought some pliers and cutters from http://schmitz-zangen.de/shop.php?lang=engl which were quite reasonable in price, and seem to be very well made (though the shipping from Germany to USA takes them a while).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Wildcard on Sun, 16 February 2014, 23:40:31
[...] i would suggest buying a full on larsen flush cutter -- either one of their carbide series if you're doing big wire work or the smaller standard series for nipping at component legs.

ps, oddly, i am also a wiha stalwart but i absolutely don't recommend wiha cutters anymore. the only pair i have that have held up was the wiha germany bevel head and it's more expensive than the equivalent larsen and has a much less beefy joint. it's full polish, and the box joint is definitely high quality, but the larsens just blow it out of the water.
I bought some pliers and cutters from http://schmitz-zangen.de/shop.php?lang=engl (http://schmitz-zangen.de/shop.php?lang=engl) which were quite reasonable in price, and seem to be very well made (though the shipping from Germany to USA takes them a while).

Not bad, did you pick up the 3437HS22? It looked good until I switched countries to the US and saw that shipping charge. Ouch :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 February 2014, 02:40:29
quite intrigued by the stainless line. bought a couple to see how they compare to my very similar looking wihas.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Mon, 17 February 2014, 04:24:04
Not bad, did you pick up the 3437HS22? It looked good until I switched countries to the US and saw that shipping charge. Ouch :)
I didn’t get any tungsten carbide cutters. The shipping is steep to the US, but it doesn’t increase much for additional items, so if you buy about 3-4 cutters/pliers at once, the price ends up okay. Would obviously be even better with a group buy or something.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 February 2014, 23:09:34
their carbide cutters is only a carbide plating. they are not full carbide. the problem with this is that you can't sharpen cutters like this or you take off the carbide layer.

tronex has full and brazed carbide cutters, but they are meant for extremely thin medical grade and otherwise strong but thin wire. the tronex T and W series top out at 24AWG (but of course they can cut stianless and other very hard wires).

that said, i have heard extremely good things about tronex's carbon steel full flush and extra full flush cutters (like, best cutters ever sort of good things). very much debating picking up a large gauge cutter, as those take the biggest beating. that said, for very hard wire your best bet is an end cutter like the wiha 32659. the 150$ tronex full tungsten carbide cutters are for like.. laparoscopic surgery (ok they're probably a bit low-end for laparoscopic procedures), and not nipping off component legs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 17 February 2014, 23:12:36
I can't stress buying quality cutters enough.  I tried cutting some spring steel piano wire with some cheap masterforce cutters from Menards.  Yeah they won't hardly cut the paper that ties diodes together anymore.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 February 2014, 23:26:19
the trick is replaceable blades
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Tue, 18 February 2014, 00:45:03
I tried cutting some spring steel piano wire with some cheap masterforce cutters from Menards.
That Schmitz website tells you what maximum gauge/mm width of various hardnesses of wire to safely cut with each type of cutter. For piano wire, yeah, I’d use the tungsten carbide ones. I think many keyboard springs aren’t using wire that’s quite so hard though. Keyswitch spring wires are thin enough that even the smallest of the tungsten carbide cutters should work for any of them though, even if they were piano wire.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 18 February 2014, 00:52:07
I tried cutting some spring steel piano wire with some cheap masterforce cutters from Menards.
That Schmitz website tells you what maximum gauge/mm width of various hardnesses of wire to safely cut with each type of cutter. For piano wire, yeah, I’d use the tungsten carbide ones. I think many keyboard springs aren’t using wire that’s quite so hard though. Keyswitch spring wires are thin enough that even the smallest of the tungsten carbide cutters should work for any of them though.

Yeah I knew it would destroy them but I didn't care.  I was using that wire to sleeve some 9 foot long pieces of 20 gauge wire with 1/16" cable sleeving.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Fri, 28 February 2014, 10:41:00
I have some tiny pins that I want to connect to some 1mm thick copper wire. The pins already make it hard enough, but the solder doesn't want to "stick" to the copper wire at all. Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 28 February 2014, 10:54:40
flux!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Fri, 28 February 2014, 13:28:51
Tried again, flux did not really help. I used some wire from some old earplugs and wrapped that around the pins which worked.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 28 February 2014, 13:53:49
so, if it's stranded wire, and you're short on hands, apply a little bit of blobby solder to the twisted stranded end. then, apply flux and the flux will wet the wire such that capillary action draws the solder into the wire bundle. after this happens, your wire will be "tinned", and should look silvery (because it has a coat of tin and lead on it). now, solder "sticks" to solder when heated, so put a little bit more blobby solder on the tinned wire, put a little blob of solder on your tip to serve as a heat bridge put a drop of flux on either the pin or the wire's block, touch the wire blob to the pin and then maneuver your iron to where your heat bridge is touching the blob on the wire and the pin. pull the heat back as soon as the solder melts and then hold the assembly extremely still (this is where a proper wire holding (pana)vise really helps) and you should get a good joint. if you don't (which is A-OK), put the assembly in a work holding device, put another drop of flux on the bad joint and heat for just long enough for the solder to melt, then pull the heat back.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Fri, 28 February 2014, 17:58:32
There's more about cutting hard wire in this thread:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48585.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48585.0)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 28 February 2014, 18:38:24
conclusion: hard wire sucks to cut :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PointyFox on Fri, 28 February 2014, 22:42:47
conclusion: hard wire sucks to cut :(

I had two pairs of hard wire cutters I used for years on medical wire. 

Keiba power max cutters and Excelta tungsten carbide cutters.

Both are very good.  The wire diameter limit on the Exceltas I used was 0.020''
I used the Keiba for up to 0.045'' wire. The Exceltas keep their edge and are good for small wire.  The Keibas get chewed up slightly but continue to work on larger wire ~0.016'' and up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 01 March 2014, 14:35:06
have you tried the tronex carbides? the class W full carbides can only do up to 28ga, but the class T brazed-head carbides can do up to 0.02. i've heard extremely good things about them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 02 March 2014, 09:23:04
Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 02 March 2014, 09:33:09

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks :thumb:

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 02 March 2014, 10:14:29

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks :thumb:

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

Maybe I should have said a "budget" soldering station. While mkawa's kit is very nice, it's far out of my price range.

I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just a decent iron and pump to start. :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: riotonthebay on Sun, 02 March 2014, 11:14:22


Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks :thumb:

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

Maybe I should have said a "budget" soldering station. While mkawa's kit is very nice, it's far out of my price range.

I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just a decent iron and pump to start. :thumb:

Ming will sell the iron and pump from the kit separately. I believe it will be less than $80. I also think this will save you money in the long run, or even the medium run. Bad irons will ruin PCBs and bad solder suckers will break.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 02 March 2014, 11:22:14
the BYO holder option reduces the kit price significantly (to 130). you can get iron holders which are not as fancy or as safe but are much cheaper for 5-6$ at electronics surplus shops. there's not a whole lot else you can remove from the kit before it becomes a BYO everything kit.

although if you don't want the iron, check out the soldering accessories GB
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 02 March 2014, 12:55:09

Guys, what's a decently good soldering station I can get in Canada. As well as a pump. The last cheap pump I bought was terrible.

Thanks :thumb:

I'd recommend mkawa's soldering kit.

Maybe I should have said a "budget" soldering station. While mkawa's kit is very nice, it's far out of my price range.

I don't need all the bells and whistles. Just a decent iron and pump to start. :thumb:

Via OP - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481-K

Just iron and pump cost approximately $80.

From there, maybe look for a used 888d and a new soldapullt as any of the options that come to my mind are cheap because they aren't good.

Additionally, you have a PM.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kayliss on Sun, 02 March 2014, 22:53:11
I've had my JBC CD-2BC for a little while now and have got quite alot of use out of it so far. As far as I'm concerned it was a great choice, absolutely rock solid so far.

The small handle is nice to use, it's been a huge relief for me. As far as real use, everything from 0603's to Lipo battery packs for high power RC cars has been a breeze. I picked up a couple of different cartridges/tips to suit what I'm doing and so far I haven't been left wanting in that regard. I thought the quick change tips were a bit gimmicky at first, but in use it's very helpful, it's something I wouldn't go back to a station without.

If I had the choice again I'd still get the JBC, I'd really like to try a Ersa station though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 03 March 2014, 10:17:09
can't argue with experience. glad you like your station. the ersa's look like _very_ nice stations fwiw. i think i mentioned this earlier when komar was talking about his search for a station that could be purchased locally.

ersa looks like a mostly european brand though, as i haven't seen a lot of 115v versions easily available in the US.

also i want to mention that the soldering GB kit is supposed to be a step up from the edsyn bundle (which i can't offer for less than edsyn. it's their thing). if you're budget limited i do highly recommend the edsyn bundles with the cl1481. i tried to add a bit more convenience and safety to my kit with the holder, the kester 44, the larger augmented DS017GH soldapullt, the full set of tips, etc.

my margins are quite low on my kit, and the edsyn's margins are even lower on their kit. i talked about it with my edsyn rep and our goals are exactly the same. we're both just trying to provide good gear for learning to solder without discouraging people. hard to go wrong with either kit. we've both thought pretty hard about what to put in and what to leave out at our given price points. :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 03 March 2014, 23:58:36
Alright so I have done a bit of soldering on different boards including, Cherry switches, diodes, desoldering both, bypassing traces to rotate a switch on the factory PCB, and desoldered a teensy from a phantom (now that was a freakin pain in the ass).  My question is this.  Is it really that difficult to hand solder SMD diodes?  I have a weller iron with 1-5 scale and a 1.6mm chisel tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 04 March 2014, 00:02:20
Alright so I have done a bit of soldering on different boards including, Cherry switches, diodes, desoldering both, bypassing traces to rotate a switch on the factory PCB, and desoldered a teensy from a phantom (now that was a freakin pain in the ass).  My question is this.  Is it really that difficult to hand solder SMD diodes?  I have a weller iron with 1-5 scale and a 1.6mm chisel tip.
It's pretty easy with a 1.6mm tip. Just tack one side down with solder, solder the other side, then redo both joints to make sure they're good. Tacky flux is helpful :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 04 March 2014, 00:04:37
Alright so I have done a bit of soldering on different boards including, Cherry switches, diodes, desoldering both, bypassing traces to rotate a switch on the factory PCB, and desoldered a teensy from a phantom (now that was a freakin pain in the ass).  My question is this.  Is it really that difficult to hand solder SMD diodes?  I have a weller iron with 1-5 scale and a 1.6mm chisel tip.
It's pretty easy with a 1.6mm tip. Just tack one side down with solder, solder the other side, then redo both joints to make sure they're good. Tacky flux is helpful :thumb:

Thanks photekq.  So for this I would want flux in addition to flux core solder?  I was thinking add some solder to one pad, place with tweezers, add flux, heat to flow, hole till cooled, then solder the other side.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 04 March 2014, 00:19:45
So for this I would want flux in addition to flux core solder?
Yeah, flux will be very helpful. I found that tacky flux is a lot better than liquid flux for this (as well as most other SMD stuff).

I was thinking add some solder to one pad, place with tweezers, add flux, heat to flow, hole till cooled, then solder the other side.
You could do this, but I'd then add flux to both sides once soldered and heat to flow once more to make sure the joints are good. I did a method like this to begin with and it worked fine, but I found the method I described earlier to be better.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 08 March 2014, 21:44:00
Please help me figure this out.  I'm trying to add an LED to the underside of a PCB, attaching it in parallel to another LED. 

Trouble is, I can't get good contact.  The in-switch LED works fine, but the LED I attach underneath does not light up.  It seems like the only way to make it light up is to make contact with the ringed pads on the PCB -- not with the in-switch LED pins.  I thought the whole soldered "mound" was supposed to be conductive... why can I not get continuity?  I've even used copious amounts of flux trying to get a clean connection, and pressed the second LED leads as close against the first and the ring as possible (though the rings are TINY, so it's near impossible)  after normal amount of flux in Kester 44 did not seem to do it.  I've tried reflowing a few times, and getting all LED pins as close to each other as possible.

Here's what I'm talking about:

[attachimg=1]

(the scary looking orange-brown stuff is rosin flux)

I can insert 2 LEDs into the same switch LED holes without soldering, and both light up when I touch the pins to the ring-pads.  But once I solder one LED and try to attach another... no go.  Must be some wire-connecting magic I'm missing.  (Yes, I've tinned the ends of the LED I'm trying to attach at the bottom).

P.S.: the negative LED lead is not touching the ring pad to the left--it just looks like it does from above.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 08 March 2014, 21:51:23
Seems like I remember someone saying too much heat will kill an LED..just a thought....

And your sure you've got the positive and negative oriented correctly?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 08 March 2014, 21:55:39
Yes.  Also I've already tried this with 2 LEDs.  I can desolder and test if it still works, just in case.

EDIT: just removed it and tested--LED works perfectly.

And this is the area that I've just cleaned up.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: doub on Sun, 09 March 2014, 08:00:54
When you solder it in the right orientation, does the LED on the other side of the PCB stop working? Do you have the datasheet for the working LED and the one you're trying to attach?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 09 March 2014, 13:19:42
No, I've already tested that I can have up to 2 LEDs in the same switch, glowing at the ~same visual intensity.  Both light up until I do the soldering.  Yes, the orientation is correct.  To make them light up, I have to touch the ringed pads on the PCB at the same time.  But now that the in-switch LEDs have been soldered in and I'm adding another LED underneath afterwards, I can't establish a proper electrical connection between the ring pads and the second LED.  That's what I need to figure out.  What am I doing wrong in a technical sense that there's no or not enough current flowing to the other LED? 

I tinned the ends of the unattached LED, heated both the leads and the pins of the previously soldered in-switch LED, and added some solder (and later also additional flux).  My best guess is that the LED pins of the bulb I'm attaching from underneath don't actually make physical contact with the ring, but I thought that having a clean layer of solder between the two would be sufficient to bridge that connection.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 09 March 2014, 14:38:31
Ha, thanks to dorkvader, the issue has been resolved.  Turns out I forgot to check that the LEDs I'm adding have the same forward voltage than the ones I'm attaching them TO.  The answer is, they don't :D  The additional LEDs work fine now when I attach them to the number-row in-switch LEDs, which are identical (and thus have the same Vf).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: AKmalamute on Sun, 09 March 2014, 17:13:44
Well, I just found out what a lifted pad looks like O.o

Somewhere I thought I got the impression that it was caused by overzealous solder-suckering. So I was careful to remove solder at a steep angle relative to the board, and when I couldn't see any more solder I got a flat screwdriver and pushed down on the switch's stabilizing plastic center pin while moving the iron back & forth between the connector pins to keep any remaining solder liquid.

 One of the pins came out clean.

LMGTFY and oh, yes, lifted pads are associated with solder-suckers, just not in the way I had thought.

It's all good, though because I think just maybe there was a problem with the board ... I ended up jumpering the new vintage-black's pins to the ISO pads just to one side, which had always worked in aquakeys + tweezers, even when fiddling with adding more solder to the existing switch never did anything. Yes, same switch location but I couldn't get the "official" one to work but the other one did. //shrug

one more key wasn't responding but I think it was just because I was a little too skimpy with solder when attaching through-hole diodes. Added solder to the diode from the bottom and now ALL the keys on my phantom work.

MY FIRST KEYBOARD, DONE!

Now I just need a case for the thing o.O   (Ergodox, here I come!)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sun, 09 March 2014, 19:12:35
Woot, all done!

Adding LEDs to the underside of an A87 PS2AVR PCB (in a GON case).  Had to sacrifice a USB cable for some sleeved wires:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/13047237063_af96780583_b.jpg)
(white is signal, black is ground)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/13047433164_69b93813f9_b.jpg)

Artsy shot:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/13047423314_d73bba9a4f_b.jpg)

Taped in place:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/13047428384_94d04fe4fc_h.jpg)

Done! (looks better and brighter  in person)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/13047089765_61261636e6_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7328/13047095285_bd613cc2cb_b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Sifo on Sun, 09 March 2014, 19:18:13
Woot, all done!

Adding LEDs to the underside of an A87 PS2AVR PCB (in a GON case).  Had to sacrifice a USB cable for some sleeved wires:

Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/13047237063_af96780583_b.jpg)

(white is signal, black is ground)

Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/13047433164_69b93813f9_b.jpg)


Artsy shot:
Show Image
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/13047423314_d73bba9a4f_b.jpg)


Taped in place:
Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/13047428384_94d04fe4fc_h.jpg)


Done! (looks better and brighter  in person)
Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/13047089765_61261636e6_b.jpg)


Glad you  got it to work
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Mon, 10 March 2014, 22:24:56
Does anyone have experience with solder not being able to be sucked up? I'm using a sulapullit and I have experience soldering with 3 boards and this one is being extremely stubborn...I'm not sure what I should do.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 10 March 2014, 23:00:58
Does anyone have experience with solder not being able to be sucked up? I'm using a sulapullit and I have experience soldering with 3 boards and this one is being extremely stubborn...I'm not sure what I should do.

Plated through holes are a lot more stubborn, this is what they do with multi layered boards.  It is more of a pain because the solder will stick to any of the copper that is hot and there is copper going all the way to the other side of the PCB.  Plus lead free solder is a pain to begin with.  if you don't get it the first shot add some back to it, let it cool, and try again.  Just don't add to much.  You don't want more in there the second time than the first time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:38:25
Sorry about the double post but it has been a few days.  But I have a quick question.

Can someone recommend a good pair of wire strippers for small stuff.  I was thinking for wires hopefully down to about 26 or 28 gauge.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 13 March 2014, 06:53:51
Sorry about the double post but it has been a few days.  But I have a quick question.

Can someone recommend a good pair of wire strippers for small stuff.  I was thinking for wires hopefully down to about 26 or 28 gauge.

nubbinator recommended these http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006962E7G (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006962E7G) here -> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44924.0

I'm considering getting some but for now I used a pair of flush cutters and squeezed gently and pull.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Thechemist on Thu, 13 March 2014, 07:49:36
Does anyone have experience with solder not being able to be sucked up? I'm using a sulapullit and I have experience soldering with 3 boards and this one is being extremely stubborn...I'm not sure what I should do.

Flow some new solder and then suck it up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Fri, 14 March 2014, 11:06:11
Woot, all done!

Adding LEDs to the underside of an A87 PS2AVR PCB (in a GON case).  Had to sacrifice a USB cable for some sleeved wires:

Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/13047237063_af96780583_b.jpg)

(white is signal, black is ground)

Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/13047433164_69b93813f9_b.jpg)


Artsy shot:
Show Image
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/13047423314_d73bba9a4f_b.jpg)


Taped in place:
Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7456/13047428384_94d04fe4fc_h.jpg)


Done! (looks better and brighter  in person)
Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/13047089765_61261636e6_b.jpg)


Show Image
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7328/13047095285_bd613cc2cb_b.jpg)


It's so beautiful.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 14 March 2014, 16:54:02
these are my favorite budget strippers: http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-Communications-22-10-Strippers-Bundle/dp/B000X4X23U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-4&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

you can also get them separately if you don't strip 26ga cable. note that greenlee = paladin.

eventually, you're going to kill those strippers, and you're going to need something with replaceable blades. when you get to that point, buy a stripax. the basic design is from a german company: weidemuller, but greenlee has the rights to the US market and packages it a little differently. here's the greenlee version. notice that it has a blade that's fine enough for 28ga. since the blades are replaceable, that's just the blade they pack with the thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Paladin-1113-Stripax-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHCFO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-3&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

however, you can get the weidemeier version in the US, but weidemuller packages it with a slightly coarser blade:

http://www.newark.com/weidmuller/stripax-0-8-10mm/wire-stripper-0-8-6mm/dp/24M7939

this blade is only rated down to 20ga. another blade is like 30 bucks, so i tend to recommend the paladin version. there is a slight difference in ergonomics between the weidemuller and the greenlee, because weidemuller is technically a generation ahead, but the only difference is replaceable handles for comfort, so that's the tradeoff. regardless, the stripax is THE wire stripper. once you've used one, you will never go back to any other wire stripper design. it's just a brilliantly designed little thing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 14 March 2014, 21:35:39
these are my favorite budget strippers: http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-Communications-22-10-Strippers-Bundle/dp/B000X4X23U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-4&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

you can also get them separately if you don't strip 26ga cable. note that greenlee = paladin.

eventually, you're going to kill those strippers, and you're going to need something with replaceable blades. when you get to that point, buy a stripax. the basic design is from a german company: weidemuller, but greenlee has the rights to the US market and packages it a little differently. here's the greenlee version. notice that it has a blade that's fine enough for 28ga. since the blades are replaceable, that's just the blade they pack with the thing.

http://www.amazon.com/Paladin-1113-Stripax-Stripper-Cutter/dp/B0006BHCFO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1394833546&sr=8-3&keywords=paladin+wire+stripper

however, you can get the weidemeier version in the US, but weidemuller packages it with a slightly coarser blade:

http://www.newark.com/weidmuller/stripax-0-8-10mm/wire-stripper-0-8-6mm/dp/24M7939

this blade is only rated down to 20ga. another blade is like 30 bucks, so i tend to recommend the paladin version. there is a slight difference in ergonomics between the weidemuller and the greenlee, because weidemuller is technically a generation ahead, but the only difference is replaceable handles for comfort, so that's the tradeoff. regardless, the stripax is THE wire stripper. once you've used one, you will never go back to any other wire stripper design. it's just a brilliantly designed little thing.

^ What I use daily.  I think I've used it to strip around 2000 times since I got it and I still haven't seen it do anything but a clean cut assuming I don't derp the set up.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Sat, 15 March 2014, 12:52:44
How safe is it to solder indoors? Would the fumes require good ventilation?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 15 March 2014, 12:54:20
How safe is it to solder indoors? Would the fumes require good ventilation?
I solder in my room with just a USB fan blowing over the area.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sat, 15 March 2014, 13:02:00
I use a DIY solder fume sucker with two PC case fans and some charcoal absorber in front of the fans. Works great!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 15 March 2014, 13:27:55
I solder near a window with a desk fan going, although my room smells terrible after I am done lol

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sat, 15 March 2014, 13:47:08
I solder near a window with a desk fan going, although my room smells terrible after I am done lol

I did that before as well, but in winter that wasn't really an option so I had to get creative. With my DIY thing there is no smell at all afterwards, so I can really recommend it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 15 March 2014, 14:01:12
I solder near a window with a desk fan going, although my room smells terrible after I am done lol

I did that before as well, but in winter that wasn't really an option so I had to get creative. With my DIY thing there is no smell at all afterwards, so I can really recommend it.
I know, it doesn't get that cold here so that isn't a problem for me :P

If I soldered frequently I would have to make something though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Mon, 17 March 2014, 18:46:01
I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.

Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?

http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Thank you!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 17 March 2014, 19:10:19
I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.
Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?
http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Kester 44 is not lead free, it is made of 63% tin and 37% lead (thats what the 63/37 stands for). It is recommended as it melts at lower temperatures and is easier to work with.
Both is bad if you breathe it and you should wash your hands after soldering. Open your window while soldering or have a fan near your soldering area and you should be perfectly fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Mon, 17 March 2014, 19:41:06
I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.
Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?
http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Kester 44 is not lead free, it is made of 63% tin and 37% lead (thats what the 63/37 stands for). It is recommended as it melts at lower temperatures and is easier to work with.
Both is bad if you breathe it and you should wash your hands after soldering. Open your window while soldering or have a fan near your soldering area and you should be perfectly fine.

Thanks for providing this information BlueBär!

Does anyone know where else I can obtain this solder? Parts-express doesn't ship to Canada and eBay is around $70USD.

Thank you!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 17 March 2014, 19:44:34
Does anyone know where else I can obtain this solder? Parts-express doesn't ship to Canada and eBay is around $70USD.

I have the same problem. Someday when Geekhackers.org is open I would suggest to buy it from there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 17 March 2014, 19:52:48
I'm working on another keyboard, which was not put together by me, and trying to figure out why one of the LEDs does not light up (on the "N" key).  The LED itself is good, which I've tested--even replaced with another working LED.  But... it doesn't light up.  I can make it light up by doing a continuity check with a multimeter and passing some extra current through it, I guess, but otherwise it stays dark when all the others on that keyboard are lit.

I've tested the resistor for the troublesome LED, and it's properly soldered.  Any ideas what might be happening?  It's like it's not getting sufficient current for some reason or else some weird firmware thing where it's not getting enough current via software (doubtful).  Everything looks clean and neat, no damaged traces.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 17 March 2014, 20:03:35
I'm working on another keyboard, which was not put together by me, and trying to figure out why one of the LEDs does not light up (on the "N" key).  The LED itself is good, which I've tested--even replaced with another working LED.  But... it doesn't light up.  I can make it light up by doing a continuity check with a multimeter and passing some extra current through it, I guess, but otherwise it stays dark when all the others on that keyboard are lit.

I've tested the resistor for the troublesome LED, and it's properly soldered.  Any ideas what might be happening?  It's like it's not getting sufficient current for some reason or else some weird firmware thing where it's not getting enough current via software (doubtful).  Everything looks clean and neat, no damaged traces.

Something something forward voltage...bad resistor...wrong value resistor...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 17 March 2014, 20:26:05
The resistor seems to give the same reading as others when I do a continuity check.  Hrm.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Mon, 17 March 2014, 20:34:49
Has anyone used AIM solder before? How does it compare to Kester?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 March 2014, 20:45:58
I'm looking to buying some solder, but I'm confused between solder and lead-free solder. From a health perspective, is the lead-free one considerably better? Or are they just equally as bad? Also, what do you guys think of AIM solder? The guy at my local hobby store said AIM is comparable to Kester.
Also, looking at the OP, is this lead free?
http://www.parts-express.com/kester-44-rosin-core-solder-63-37-031-1-lb-spool--370-074#lblProductDetails

Kester 44 is not lead free, it is made of 63% tin and 37% lead (thats what the 63/37 stands for). It is recommended as it melts at lower temperatures and is easier to work with.
Both is bad if you breathe it and you should wash your hands after soldering. Open your window while soldering or have a fan near your soldering area and you should be perfectly fine.
kester 44 actually doesn't refer to the alloy. there is kester 44 60/40 as well as 63/37. kester 44 actually refers to the specific RA flux formulation. it is incredibly effective while being very low in halides and other really nasty stuff. rosin is actually a plant derived solvent, and it can be activated with really nasty stuff, or not so nasty stuff. the nastiest fluxes will actually corrode the joint if you leave it on. kester 44 leaded solder was incredibly popular for 40 some odd years because it was no-clean in an industrial sense; that is it was corrosive enough to disrupt oxide layers, but not corrosive enough to corrode joints, boards or components (in the expectation, of course). of the kester 44 variants, the best for hobby soldering is 63/37 because it has no glass transition phase between solid and liquid. it phase changes at exactly 183C, which is very low, for the least chance of component heat damage, and the easiest work and rework during assembly or repair. in small diameter (0.02-0.03"), it is extremely versatile, has excellent wetting characteristics (the flux to solder ratio is extremely copacetic to good flow of solder into a joint), is fairly non-toxic, and has very good performace when flux residue is not cleaned off the board.

geekhackers.org does in fact carry kester 44 RA 63/37 in the 0.02" variant, but unless you order a learn to solder kit or soldering accessories kit, i am ridiculously swamped at the moment, and taking a 10 USD order, packing, fulfilling and shipping it leaves me way negative. i'm guessing you'd prefer that geekhackers' resellers have stock of lubricant  anyway with how quickly it keeps selling out on me XD

also: hat tip, i'm working on a GB of premium hand tools right now. i have to do some intensely boring tabulation and cross-checking and demo a few things, but i'm getting pretty excited about it. i have an opportunity to offer extremely premium hand tools for a very reasonable price. sorry, completely off-topic. back to packing lube.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 March 2014, 20:55:23
wait, crap, that post was supposed to be about potential toxicity of solder. kester 44 RA is "not all that toxic" in that a small room air cleaner or a pc fan blowing into some activated aquarium charcoal will get rid of the smell and any consequential (though relatively minor) toxicity. the activators used in kester 44 RA are organic and not nasty halides or arsenic or whatever the hell the really corrosive stuff uses. however, one common misconception is that solder fumes contain heavy metals, ie, lead. this is untrue. what you are smelling is only fumes caused by either burning the flux, or the rx between the flux and metal oxides. heavy metals all stay solid and on on the board, basically. however, handling soldering is handling about 30% of that diameter minus the flux diameter of lead. again, lead residue will end up on your hands when you handle leaded solder (it sounds so simple when you just outright say it ;)). hence, wash your hands after your handle solder.

that's basically the safety story. if you're an assembly line worker, you really want to follow safety procedure. if you're a hobbyist that solders once a week, you'll do fine with an open window and habituation to good hand sanitation :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Mon, 17 March 2014, 21:14:38
JDcarpe:  I've replaced the resistor (thankfully had one of almost the same value), and the LED works now, woot!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Mon, 17 March 2014, 21:23:25
One more question guys - is buying older solder bad?

I'm thinking of getting this one off CL:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/for/4362744284.html

Is this the correct one?

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 17 March 2014, 21:39:28
One more question guys - is buying older solder bad?

I'm thinking of getting this one off CL:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/for/4362744284.html

Is this the correct one?

Thanks!

Ming has a really good post about this in here somewhere.  He explained how the flux and solder behave over long periods.  In short, solder has a limited shelf life.  I think it was about a year.  So use your judgement...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 17 March 2014, 21:59:30
2-3 years. flux is corrosive. there are degrees of corrosive, but it's corrosive. two bad things happen to old solder. 1) it forms an oxide layer. that means you need flux to get to your flux. what? yah. 2) the flux inside the drawn wire can eat its way out. if it fails to do that it will slowly de-activate. the radical bits will run off, basically, and you'll just be soldering with tree sap. boooring!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sublime on Fri, 21 March 2014, 16:26:40
Hey all,

I'm desoldering a keyboard so I can replace the switches.

However, when doing so the solder melts inside the hole where the switch pin is placed and I am unable to remove it. Because of this, the switch cannot be removed.

How can I fix my problem and remove this solder?

Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 21 March 2014, 16:32:05
Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sublime on Fri, 21 March 2014, 23:36:19
Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

A solder sucker. Should I try a wick?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 21 March 2014, 23:38:19
Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

A solder sucker. Should I try a wick?
Wick is practically useless for desoldering through-hole components like switches. Just add more solder and try again with the solder sucker.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vun on Sat, 22 March 2014, 11:38:18
Add more solder.

What are you using for desoldering?

A solder sucker. Should I try a wick?
Wick is practically useless for desoldering through-hole components like switches. Just add more solder and try again with the solder sucker.

I actually found wick to be more useful than the sucker, although this was on an old board that had proper solder. Sucker is probably more useful with ROHS solder.

Can't really say I like the sucker tho; clumsy, feels inefficient and bothersome compared to wick.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sublime on Sat, 22 March 2014, 16:04:29
I've tried over and over but the solder is down in the switch. The sucker just can't reach it all. Should I just get a wick, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sat, 22 March 2014, 16:09:22
Did you add solder as suggested?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sublime on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:10:38
Yes I did. Whenever I add more solder and remove it, nothing changes. Is there a method so I can suck up the solder that's deep in the hole?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photoelectric on Sat, 22 March 2014, 17:19:45
Yes I did. Whenever I add more solder and remove it, nothing changes. Is there a method so I can suck up the solder that's deep in the hole?

In those cases, just heat up the pins with the tip of your soldering iron and prop your switch or LED from the other side with a flat head small screwdriver.  Heat each pin, and eventually your switch / LED will pop out safely (but watch out, it can fly off into the distance if you're not careful).  You need to prop your PCB vertically for that, and I usually put a rubber mat undermeath to avoid damaging the PCB and my work table.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sublime on Sat, 22 March 2014, 20:31:27
Yes I did. Whenever I add more solder and remove it, nothing changes. Is there a method so I can suck up the solder that's deep in the hole?

In those cases, just heat up the pins with the tip of your soldering iron and prop your switch or LED from the other side with a flat head small screwdriver.  Heat each pin, and eventually your switch / LED will pop out safely (but watch out, it can fly off into the distance if you're not careful).  You need to prop your PCB vertically for that, and I usually put a rubber mat undermeath to avoid damaging the PCB and my work table.

Thanks for the tip, will definitely try that out!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 23 March 2014, 20:56:52
How safe is it to solder indoors? Would the fumes require good ventilation?
I solder in my room with just a USB fan blowing over the area.

I do the same but without the fan.  I like to live on the edge.  Plus, I've already breathed in so many chemicals throughout my schooling days that I figure what's a little more going to do?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 23 March 2014, 23:15:46
some fluxes are nasty than others. assembly line workers in lead-free processes are seriously in danger of health problems down the line (just one of the reasons the new electronics sweatshops are a serious human rights issue), but hobbyists probably won't get lung cancer from making a few joints without ventilation. if possible though, you are definitely better off with a charcoal filter. i had a very poorly made thread with humorous pictures of my USPS priority mail box-based active charcoal filters. i've since appropriated the fans to cool a very large compressor, but the based idea is radial fan -> box -> activated charcoal eg from aquarium store -> venting. activated charcoal works by being ionized and very granular, ie, having high surface area. this is also why the "activated charcoal mesh" is a joke. you need a ton of surface area, which means lots of finely crushed or roughly formed nuggets. once you have that though, you just need the nasty smelly stuff to get near the charcoal. you don't have to push a huge amount of air through it unless you're in a very confined space and you have a lot of fumes.

the bigger danger of leaded solder is the trace amounts of solder you get on your hands when you handle it. if you were to eat while soldering for a long period of time you might have issues with the lead exposure. your lung alveoli can handle some degree of filtration for particles as large as rosin flux fumes - they just have issues with the free radicals, and unactivated rosin is actually very inert. activated rosin like the fluxes we recommend in this thread are only a little more volatile. lead-free fluxes are poisonous as crap.

but lead just kind of builds up in your body like mercury. your blood filtration systems - kidney and liver - are not very good at filtering them and getting them outside of your body or converting them into anything inert.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 24 March 2014, 12:35:33
i had a very poorly made thread with humorous pictures of my USPS priority mail box-based active charcoal filters. i've since appropriated the fans to cool a very large compressor, but the based idea is radial fan -> box -> activated charcoal eg from aquarium store -> venting. activated charcoal works by being ionized and very granular, ie, having high surface area. this is also why the "activated charcoal mesh" is a joke. you need a ton of surface area, which means lots of finely crushed or roughly formed nuggets. once you have that though, you just need the nasty smelly stuff to get near the charcoal. you don't have to push a huge amount of air through it unless you're in a very confined space and you have a lot of fumes.

This is my little fume sucker I made, although it's a thin layer of activated charcoal it leaves no smell in the room after soldering. However this sucks the fumes through the filter instead of pushing them inside like you describe it. Since they're so small I have them about 10-30cm away from my soldering area.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 24 March 2014, 14:35:27
carbon mesh isn't completely useless. i mean it does have granular carbon embedded in it. the issue is more that it has much less surface area than a small flat rate box with aquarium charcoal in it, and yet 6x6" mesh costs about as much as 5lbs of aquarium charcoal.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 24 March 2014, 22:34:48
I just solder in the basement and not worry about the fumes.  The little bit I do solder is nothing of a health hazard compared to the welding of carbon steel, with and without galvinized coatings, stainless steel, torching and plasma cutting all of the above, on top of the greases and different chemicals I use at work.  So, in my world lead poisioning from a bit of keyboard modding is pretty minimal. 

On a side note would someone care to look at this image and see if I am following the traces right for wiring this thing up?

[attach=1]

I guess this is just being an electrical newb but correct me if I am wrong.  With the switch pressed electrical current would flow (assuming columns are output and rows are input according to the teensy):

into the pcb at 11, to pin at 1, across switch to pin at 2/3, to diode at pad 6 across diode to pad 9, then to the next switch at pad 20.

Help here would be greatly appreaciated.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 25 March 2014, 03:50:33
Built my Leeku 1800 and Phantom in the past two days, and I have to say, I like SMD soldering more (Leeku 1800 was SMD diodes, Phantom was through-hole). I screwed up on one switch diode on the Phantom, and it was a pain to get it desoldered. Once I did desolder it, I soldered an SD diode on the through-hole pads, works fine, and I think I should ahve done that for all the diodes from the beginning.

Really if the through-hole diodes are not in-switch, I see them being a pain to remove in the future, of course you should aim to just get it right the first time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 25 March 2014, 15:55:35
well last night was a failure. i got my ergodox yesterday and was super excited to get it going.

****ing balls of solder! the SMD pads on the ergodox are flippin tiny and when i apply solder to one of the pads to get going the solder just balls up.  i tried with and without flux added first and same result.

i was using a brand new 1.2mm hakko tip on my FX888. i had the iron set to 725F (which may have been a little too hot).  i was using kester 44 63/37 .031 solder. for additional flux i was using MG Chemicals 835 Rosin Flux.

What the hell am i doing wrong to cause these pads to ball up solder on them?

possible reasons:
1.  Iron was too hot
2.  Brand new tip was not as clean and tinned as much as it should have been (doubtful)
3.  Tip is just too big (solution would be to order .8mm tip instead of using my 1.2mm or stock 1.6mm tip).
4.  too much solder on the pads


i have never done SMD work before. this is all new to me. here is what i am thinking about solutions:

1.  buy hot air station (really dont want to do this)
2.  find some good solder paste in a syringe. but use iron to harden paste (not sure if even possible)
3.  buy the cheap heat gun linked on the OP and use with solder paste
4.  try a different brand of solder
5.  get a smaller tip for my hakko
6.  **** SMD break down and purchase through hole diodes from digikey (dont really want to do this especially since i just ordered 35 replacement 1N4148W-7-F diodes cause i ****ed some up last night)
7.  just try it again after thoroughly cleaning tip and set hakko to lower temperature (thinking like 675F)

please assist me solder gurus. i will pass the knowledge forward. also i convinced a work buddy of mine to purchase the ergodox and have to help him build his.

SMDs suck. luckily the ergodox PCBs are identical so the side i messed up (from desoldering diodes) cab just be flipped and start over no worries. basically the pads for two of the diodes got ripped up probably from being heated and cooled and then reheated again.

i have patience. i can do this. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Tue, 25 March 2014, 16:24:57
i was using a brand new 1.2mm hakko tip on my FX888. i had the iron set to 725F (which may have been a little too hot).

I think half of that would have been enough...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 25 March 2014, 17:36:01
Problems according to me:
1. Running iron too hot
2. Too much solder (This is a very common beginner problem)

What is your SMD soldering technique?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 25 March 2014, 17:36:40
So i had it too hot? Can that cause solder to ball up?  What temp do you suggest for me?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 25 March 2014, 17:41:43
So last night I would add solder to right smd pad first. Then hold diode with tweezers and heat the diode connector until it drops into the solder. Then add solder to left side pad.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 25 March 2014, 18:02:58
you should be smack dab at 350C at all times with kester 44 63/37
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 25 March 2014, 18:21:41
So last night I would add solder to right smd pad first. Then hold diode with tweezers and heat the diode connector until it drops into the solder. Then add solder to left side pad.

This technique sounds right, do apply flux to the pads before adding solder and then again before place the the component.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 25 March 2014, 20:17:57
So last night I would add solder to right smd pad first. Then hold diode with tweezers and heat the diode connector until it drops into the solder. Then add solder to left side pad.

This technique sounds right, do apply flux to the pads before adding solder and then again before place the the component.

I had not thought of fluxing after the original solder.  That makes total sense now that you mention it.  Glad I got that tip before I got my boards.  :)  I am guessing a flux pen is going to be the best tool for flux in this case?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 25 March 2014, 20:27:15
I use liquid flux and apply it using a brush.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 25 March 2014, 21:25:48
I use liquid flux and apply it using a brush.

cool, thanks...  i have a flux pen or standard flux, so i will try with the flux pen to start with.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 26 March 2014, 02:12:20
How you apply it should theoretically not make a difference.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 27 March 2014, 14:36:13
good flux should wet across the parts such that generalized application gives no benefit over localized application is what moz means.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 27 March 2014, 14:59:31
Yes,  yes the doctor said it better :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Fri, 28 March 2014, 08:12:57
Installed my new equipments yesterday; obsolete HAKKO 928 station got at $10 and two counterfeit 900M handles($7 or 8 each) from ebay. They are calibrated with fake HAKKO tip thermo also from ebay(around $15), LOL.
(http://i.imgur.com/x85a2Wal.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 28 March 2014, 09:05:22
As long as it floats your boat, right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Fri, 28 March 2014, 19:03:01
I'm planning on making a DIY HHKB controller :D

In the process I will need to connect a HHKB header to a teensy (ex: with a ribbon cable). The header has a 1.50mm pitch so any advice for making the soldering easier would be appreciated.

This is the header: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/B13B-ZR(LF)(SN)/455-1668-ND/926575
(http://i.imgur.com/VXNPzHm.jpg)

It should look something like this when completed
(http://deskthority.net/resources/image/4776)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 28 March 2014, 21:03:57
26ga wire, and multiple workholders. basically, you want to get all your wires and contacts _in mechanical contact_ without using your hands. then your hands are free to do precise soldering. also see above for awesome jawesome head-mounted magnifier.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Fri, 28 March 2014, 23:04:45
Hey, can anyone recommend a good pair of flush cutters that are available through ebay or amazon.ca?

I have a small budget of $20. They don't have to be amazing, they just have to do their job. :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 29 March 2014, 12:55:20
Hey, can anyone recommend a good pair of flush cutters that are available through ebay or amazon.ca?

I have a small budget of $20. They don't have to be amazing, they just have to do their job. :)

Thanks!

http://www.amazon.com/Wiha-Flush-Cutters-Degree-45821/dp/B004AFHUUE/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1396115620&sr=8-6&keywords=wiha+esd+cutters

I've used these for a year so far.  I'm just now thinking about replacing them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 30 March 2014, 21:40:33
Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:10:30
Installed my new equipments yesterday; obsolete HAKKO 928 station got at $10 and two counterfeit 900M handles($7 or 8 each) from ebay. They are calibrated with fake HAKKO tip thermo also from ebay(around $15), LOL.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/x85a2Wa.jpg)


how safe is that?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:10:54
Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

I faced the same issue a few months ago.  I ended up getting "artistic wire" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001944WNC/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), which so far has worked wonderfully.  As I mentioned elsewhere, my build is not yet complete, but I've tested the traces and wires and everything is working perfectly so far. 

(And for my WIP pics, see this post (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54874.msg1242708#msg1242708))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:15:52
Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnet-Wire-28-Gauge-AWG-Enameled-Copper-1000-Feet-Coil-Winding-155C-Red-/171154241787

^^ Can't this be used?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:21:06
you're looking for magnet wire
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:25:32
you're looking for magnet wire

Would silver coated wire be sutible for a hand wired matrix or should I try and find some uncoated?  The problem I am having is locating 28 AWG in solid core version uncoated.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnet-Wire-28-Gauge-AWG-Enameled-Copper-1000-Feet-Coil-Winding-155C-Red-/171154241787 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnet-Wire-28-Gauge-AWG-Enameled-Copper-1000-Feet-Coil-Winding-155C-Red-/171154241787)

^^ Can't this be used?

 ::)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:27:51
you're looking for magnet wire

This is also the more correct answer.   ;D

Though technically, it does have a coating, otherwise it would be worthless for winding.  (but that'll melt off as soon as you solder it)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:29:18
you're looking for magnet wire

This is also the more correct answer.   ;D

Though technically, it does have a coating, otherwise it would be worthless for winding.  (but that'll melt off as soon as you solder it)

Obviously everyone has me on their ignore list but the wire I linked above (you can find cheaper shorter runs of the same thing), from my understanding has a coating that is specifically made to be removed with the soldering iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:33:04
you're looking for magnet wire

This is also the more correct answer.   ;D

Though technically, it does have a coating, otherwise it would be worthless for winding.  (but that'll melt off as soon as you solder it)

Obviously everyone has me on their ignore list but the wire I linked above (you can find cheaper shorter runs of the same thing), from my understanding has a coating that is specifically made to be removed with the soldering iron.

You are most definitely not on my ignore list (I don't have anyone ignored - yay!), I simply quoted the most recent reply to feature the answer, which also had the words written out rather than in link form.  And I know it'll melt off, I was just jabbing at mkawa because the request was for a bare wire.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 30 March 2014, 22:52:29
Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/KSW28R-0100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tA5kwbIAvdfRW3W4iRVpUEc%3d) was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 30 March 2014, 23:01:15
Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/KSW28R-0100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tA5kwbIAvdfRW3W4iRVpUEc%3d) was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 30 March 2014, 23:03:30
Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/KSW28R-0100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tA5kwbIAvdfRW3W4iRVpUEc%3d) was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?

Not really seeking it out but I can't seem to find any 28 ga wire in solid core that isn't coated.  I am going to bite the bullet on some when I get some money in my play account but until then salvaged IDE cables are working OK.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sun, 30 March 2014, 23:10:21
how safe is that?

Safe? I don't know, but it works at least ;)
Temperature stability looks like no problem in comparison with my vintage Weller stations. I think it is good enough for my hobby.
Anyway this is poor man's setup, I will go with Japan UNIX, Hakko, Weller, Metcal or PACE if I have much money.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Mon, 31 March 2014, 08:11:17
Cross post:

I am loving the Soldapullt, it is amazing, threw away the Chinese crap I was using. Thanks ming. I also realised why I was initially hesitant on going this route, it was because I thought I would damage the tip fairly easily, but the tip has a much higher MP than what we use and thus there is little fear of melting it with the iron.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Mon, 31 March 2014, 13:58:11
I wish I had a Flux pen cause I just spilled my bottle of Flux ****ing everywhere.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 31 March 2014, 16:36:53
Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/KSW28R-0100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tA5kwbIAvdfRW3W4iRVpUEc%3d) was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?

Not really seeking it out but I can't seem to find any 28 ga wire in solid core that isn't coated.  I am going to bite the bullet on some when I get some money in my play account but until then salvaged IDE cables are working OK.

I know of a place that does 26g solid core, but not 28.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 31 March 2014, 17:07:05
Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/KSW28R-0100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tA5kwbIAvdfRW3W4iRVpUEc%3d) was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?

Not really seeking it out but I can't seem to find any 28 ga wire in solid core that isn't coated.  I am going to bite the bullet on some when I get some money in my play account but until then salvaged IDE cables are working OK.

I know of a place that does 26g solid core, but not 28.

I am finding 28 gauge solid core that is insulated but is also either tinned or silver coated.  I would assume this would work OK for a matrix.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 31 March 2014, 20:41:57
Thanks for the info guys.  I guess I need to be a touch more specific.  I was looking for insulated wire when I came across this (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/KSW28R-0100/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtW9UaYX5J1tA5kwbIAvdfRW3W4iRVpUEc%3d) was what I had found.  I am using this with single switch PCB prototypes of my concept but Moz is doing the KiCad work as I can't seem to figure out that damn program.  I do want insulated.  I realize that magnet wire would work and in some of my research I have come across some that says the insulation functions as a flux when heat is applied (this could get interesting if used for a motor winding and it overheats drastically).  But I want to work with standard insulated wire for right now and was wondering if silver coated or even tinned copper wire would work ok, or if there are some particulars I should know when soldering with it.  I will only be ordering a 100' spool at most since I would only be using enough to go between switches.

Oooohhh, I think I understand now.  You're looking at wire that is silver coated and insulated?  I wouldn't imagine that there would be any special considerations there, but I don't have experience with that.  Any particular reason you'd be seeking it out?

Not really seeking it out but I can't seem to find any 28 ga wire in solid core that isn't coated.  I am going to bite the bullet on some when I get some money in my play account but until then salvaged IDE cables are working OK.

I know of a place that does 26g solid core, but not 28.

I am finding 28 gauge solid core that is insulated but is also either tinned or silver coated.  I would assume this would work OK for a matrix.

I can't imagine why it wouldn't work.  It's just an extra conductive thing in there, no reason that should stop it from working.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 31 March 2014, 21:34:16
Just for my understanding on this topic. When you hand wire a matrix, you want some kind of insulation. Magnet wire is recommended because it is insulated, but the iron will remove the coating. Also 28 gauge is the suggested gauge to use? Is this the most common recommendation for hand wiring?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 31 March 2014, 22:21:34
Just for my understanding on this topic. When you hand wire a matrix, you want some kind of insulation. Magnet wire is recommended because it is insulated, but the iron will remove the coating. Also 28 gauge is the suggested gauge to use? Is this the most common recommendation for hand wiring?

I don't think so but it fits some requirements for some other details related to the build that would be related to some modifications I am attempting to make to these (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55744.0).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 01 April 2014, 06:13:14
Just for my understanding on this topic. When you hand wire a matrix, you want some kind of insulation. Magnet wire is recommended because it is insulated, but the iron will remove the coating. Also 28 gauge is the suggested gauge to use? Is this the most common recommendation for hand wiring?

I don't think so but it fits some requirements for some other details related to the build that would be related to some modifications I am attempting to make to these (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55744.0).

Oh cool. Thats interesting. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 02 April 2014, 15:10:31
i can't hand wire smaller than 26ga personally. that is _tiny_ wire. even 26ga is annoying for me. i prefer 22ga for hookup wire. sometimes, especially when your landing point is an SMT pad, you have to go 26ga, but i'm most comfortable with 22 or even 18ga if possible. 18ga is super easy to work with and a great general purpose hookup wire. you can run a ton of current through it, it's easy to handle, lots of surface area for soldering. etc.

and yes, the coating on magnet wire will melt and shrink back at the end as you start soldering it. it's sometimes easier to find magnet wire in the size you want than solid core hookup wire. just keep in mind that magnet wire can't handle the temperatures that standard hookup wire can. it's meant to be wrapped around a big ass piece of ferritic iron, so using it as hookup wire is something you need to spend a few minutes making sure you're not subjecting it to too much heat in usage.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 02 April 2014, 19:54:52
i can't hand wire smaller than 26ga personally. that is _tiny_ wire. even 26ga is annoying for me. i prefer 22ga for hookup wire. sometimes, especially when your landing point is an SMT pad, you have to go 26ga, but i'm most comfortable with 22 or even 18ga if possible. 18ga is super easy to work with and a great general purpose hookup wire. you can run a ton of current through it, it's easy to handle, lots of surface area for soldering. etc.

and yes, the coating on magnet wire will melt and shrink back at the end as you start soldering it. it's sometimes easier to find magnet wire in the size you want than solid core hookup wire. just keep in mind that magnet wire can't handle the temperatures that standard hookup wire can. it's meant to be wrapped around a big ass piece of ferritic iron, so using it as hookup wire is something you need to spend a few minutes making sure you're not subjecting it to too much heat in usage.

Is it important for some reason to use insulated wire when hand wiring?

I have some uninsulated 20awg (21swg) solid core tinned copper wire that I basically use as a utility wire. Would that work to hand wire a simple matrix?

I have heard of some people using piano wire for hand wiring keyboards and I am sure that is not insulated.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 02 April 2014, 19:59:02
i can't hand wire smaller than 26ga personally. that is _tiny_ wire. even 26ga is annoying for me. i prefer 22ga for hookup wire. sometimes, especially when your landing point is an SMT pad, you have to go 26ga, but i'm most comfortable with 22 or even 18ga if possible. 18ga is super easy to work with and a great general purpose hookup wire. you can run a ton of current through it, it's easy to handle, lots of surface area for soldering. etc.

and yes, the coating on magnet wire will melt and shrink back at the end as you start soldering it. it's sometimes easier to find magnet wire in the size you want than solid core hookup wire. just keep in mind that magnet wire can't handle the temperatures that standard hookup wire can. it's meant to be wrapped around a big ass piece of ferritic iron, so using it as hookup wire is something you need to spend a few minutes making sure you're not subjecting it to too much heat in usage.

Is it important for some reason to use insulated wire when hand wiring?

I have some uninsulated 20awg (21swg) solid core tinned copper wire that I basically use as a utility wire. Would that work to hand wire a simple matrix?

I have heard of some people using piano wire for hand wiring keyboards and I am sure that is not insulated.

You can use non-insulated wire, you just have to make sure you don't short anything while you're putting it together or using it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 02 April 2014, 20:06:51
Non insulated wire works in general but I don't want to risk it with one of my projects because the plate is actually going to extend past the PCB in the z axis.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 02 April 2014, 20:16:49
Thx. Ya I was just piggy backing off your question to clarify my understanding. I am thinking of hand wiring a numpad for fun, so I wanted to get an idea if I could try with what I already have.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 02 April 2014, 20:42:15
the only situation i would use non-insulated wire in is long straight current buses. real example: say you have like 10 to-220 packages where you want to put pin 2 in parallel so that all the ICs are switched at the same time. in that situation i took some pretty heavy gauge solid core wire (i think it was like 12ga solid core), pulled the insulation off, bent pin 2 up on each package and then soldered my way down the thick wire with a joint at wire and a little bit extra for a mechanical connection. however, immediately after everything was wired up on this circuit i potted the entire assembly with non-acid cure RTV silicone to prevent all that bare metal from shorting on anything.

for hand wiring a keyboard matrix, the most elegant jobs i've seen are the ones where the diode legs are used directly as uninsulated hookup wire. however, you have to protect that wiring somehow, as it's really easy to crush such a nice but delicate wiring job. ron used an extra long press-bent switch plate to raise the board way above surface-level. lowpoly and matt3o have also done really nice jobs using diode wiring, but they both had plastic cases to protect the wiring. if you do plan on using thin uninsulated wire, i would prepare like.. closed-cell antistat foam followed by a hard phenolic layer or something? (like G10/FR4)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 02 April 2014, 20:49:31
the only situation i would use non-insulated wire in is long straight current buses. real example: say you have like 10 to-220 packages where you want to put pin 2 in parallel so that all the ICs are switched at the same time. in that situation i took some pretty heavy gauge solid core wire (i think it was like 12ga solid core), pulled the insulation off, bent pin 2 up on each package and then soldered my way down the thick wire with a joint at wire and a little bit extra for a mechanical connection. however, immediately after everything was wired up on this circuit i potted the entire assembly with non-acid cure RTV silicone to prevent all that bare metal from shorting on anything.

for hand wiring a keyboard matrix, the most elegant jobs i've seen are the ones where the diode legs are used directly as uninsulated hookup wire. however, you have to protect that wiring somehow, as it's really easy to crush such a nice but delicate wiring job. ron used an extra long press-bent switch plate to raise the board way above surface-level. lowpoly and matt3o have also done really nice jobs using diode wiring, but they both had plastic cases to protect the wiring. if you do plan on using thin uninsulated wire, i would prepare like.. closed-cell antistat foam followed by a hard phenolic layer or something? (like G10/FR4)

Ya, I am still playing with some different ideas for how I would build the case and make sure the wires don't short.

We will see.  I will have my hands full with all the PCBs I have coming, so it may wait for a while...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Fri, 04 April 2014, 15:28:33
Hey guys, I just got my switches and just waiting for my pcb from sprit.
Anyways just like to ask what type of solder should I use to solder the switches ?
Is this one alright ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-AS16-20-Gram-Solder/dp/B000LFVHK6
The price seems good. Just like to know if it's alright for usage, cause the last time I solder I used some solder from my dad's toolbox. I think it has ran out :D
Thanks again !
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Photekq on Fri, 04 April 2014, 15:34:07
Hey guys, I just got my switches and just waiting for my pcb from sprit.
Anyways just like to ask what type of solder should I use to solder the switches ?
Is this one alright ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-AS16-20-Gram-Solder/dp/B000LFVHK6
The price seems good. Just like to know if it's alright for usage, cause the last time I solder I used some solder from my dad's toolbox. I think it has ran out :D
Thanks again !
Send me your address and I'll send you enough kester 44 for a few jobs ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Fri, 04 April 2014, 15:57:32
Hey guys, I just got my switches and just waiting for my pcb from sprit.
Anyways just like to ask what type of solder should I use to solder the switches ?
Is this one alright ? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-AS16-20-Gram-Solder/dp/B000LFVHK6
The price seems good. Just like to know if it's alright for usage, cause the last time I solder I used some solder from my dad's toolbox. I think it has ran out :D
Thanks again !
Send me your address and I'll send you enough kester 44 for a few jobs ;D

Oh thanks dude.
Inc pm.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 06 April 2014, 05:56:19
I don't know if there is a guide out there or if this is the correct method for soldering LEDs, but here is what I do: When installing LEDs, I have noticed that they tend to fall through the hole sicne nothing keeps them locked into their position. What I do is, have the keyboard facing up, place the LEDs, use a hard surface like a cardboard, flip the keyboard and place it on working desk so all the LED pins stay in the wholes, they do fall off a bit, but not out of the holes, I then use a needlenose plier or my hands, pull the LED via one leg (Gently, not to tight and the holes are large enough that both the legs are pulled up evenly even when only pulling using one leg). I then solder the other leg not held, let it cool and move to the other LED. After this is done, I then solder the other leg on all the LEDs, following by trimming of the pins.

Comments on technique?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 06 April 2014, 13:01:18
I don't know if there is a guide out there or if this is the correct method for soldering LEDs, but here is what I do: When installing LEDs, I have noticed that they tend to fall through the hole sicne nothing keeps them locked into their position. What I do is, have the keyboard facing up, place the LEDs, use a hard surface like a cardboard, flip the keyboard and place it on working desk so all the LED pins stay in the wholes, they do fall off a bit, but not out of the holes, I then use a needlenose plier or my hands, pull the LED via one leg (Gently, not to tight and the holes are large enough that both the legs are pulled up evenly even when only pulling using one leg). I then solder the other leg not held, let it cool and move to the other LED. After this is done, I then solder the other leg on all the LEDs, following by trimming of the pins.

Comments on technique?

Sounds good to me.  On my learn to solder kit I used scorch tape and/or bent the legs away from each other so the would stay in place.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Sun, 06 April 2014, 13:31:14
I don't know if there is a guide out there or if this is the correct method for soldering LEDs, but here is what I do: When installing LEDs, I have noticed that they tend to fall through the hole sicne nothing keeps them locked into their position. What I do is, have the keyboard facing up, place the LEDs, use a hard surface like a cardboard, flip the keyboard and place it on working desk so all the LED pins stay in the wholes, they do fall off a bit, but not out of the holes, I then use a needlenose plier or my hands, pull the LED via one leg (Gently, not to tight and the holes are large enough that both the legs are pulled up evenly even when only pulling using one leg). I then solder the other leg not held, let it cool and move to the other LED. After this is done, I then solder the other leg on all the LEDs, following by trimming of the pins.

Comments on technique?

I just bend the legs and solder them then I'll cut them off afterwards  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:22:20
Budget (sub-$50):
Edsyn CL1481 kit (includes tips/tools/soldapullt) - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481-K
NOTE - mkawa will be making a better version of this kit with more robust stuff through the geekhackers store, but it won't be anywhere close to this bargan basement pricing


This has been irritating me for a while... click that link. Not "sub-$50." That clearly says "$90.xx" (and the CL1481 iron by itself shows $59.x...).

Does an acceptable sub-$50 unit even exist?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:27:00
Yi-Hua 936 Club!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:30:58
Budget (sub-$50):
Edsyn CL1481 kit (includes tips/tools/soldapullt) - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481-K
NOTE - mkawa will be making a better version of this kit with more robust stuff through the geekhackers store, but it won't be anywhere close to this bargan basement pricing


This has been irritating me for a while... click that link. Not "sub-$50." That clearly says "$90.xx" (and the CL1481 iron by itself shows $59.x...).

Does an acceptable sub-$50 unit even exist?
prices went up recently at edsyn. however, i will be running another GB of soldering kits that will bring the price down to below R2 levels again.

this will be more or less the same kit that kmiller uses to churn through board builds. it may seem like a very simple iron (and it is, in a manner of speaking), but it is extremely high quality and a bargain for the price, frankly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SeeThruHead on Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:55:45
Can someone recommend me a good de-soldering gun. Need something to speed up the de-soldering process. (Under 120 dollars)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ferociousfingerings on Sun, 06 April 2014, 14:58:16
Yi-Hua 936 Club!

Ah, that's the one i looked at several times but hesitated over the seemingly far too low price. Currently on backorder at hobbyking... may have to attempt to locate one elsewhere.

Budget (sub-$50):
Edsyn CL1481 kit (includes tips/tools/soldapullt) - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=CL1481-K
NOTE - mkawa will be making a better version of this kit with more robust stuff through the geekhackers store, but it won't be anywhere close to this bargan basement pricing


This has been irritating me for a while... click that link. Not "sub-$50." That clearly says "$90.xx" (and the CL1481 iron by itself shows $59.x...).

Does an acceptable sub-$50 unit even exist?
prices went up recently at edsyn. however, i will be running another GB of soldering kits that will bring the price down to below R2 levels again.

this will be more or less the same kit that kmiller uses to churn through board builds. it may seem like a very simple iron (and it is, in a manner of speaking), but it is extremely high quality and a bargain for the price, frankly.

i would certainly prefer one of your/those kits, but i doubt it will be feasible for me anytime soon. If that changes (the biggest 'if' ever), i'll surely try to get in on that.

Meanwhile, i need to locate a feasible solution, even if it's not ideal. Perhaps someday i will be able to own top of the line soldering gear... but today is not that day! And i have no idea when/whether that day will occur.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: JonasDK on Sun, 06 April 2014, 17:13:31
How legit is this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Digital-2-In-1-Soldering-Iron-SMD-Hot-Air-Gun-Rework-Station-YH-8786D-/221374450435?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item338af20b03)?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Sun, 06 April 2014, 17:34:37
How legit is this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Digital-2-In-1-Soldering-Iron-SMD-Hot-Air-Gun-Rework-Station-YH-8786D-/221374450435?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item338af20b03)?

Scam.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Sun, 06 April 2014, 20:32:40
Welp, after going through 2 Radioshack soldering irons in 2 days (opened up the box for the first one and it was used/heating element was burned out, 2nd one blew up on me when I plugged it in) I said **** it and picked up a hakko 888. Figured I might as well since I see a lot more modding in my future anyways.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:47:51
Alright, so soldering took me two seconds to master haha (at least all of my joints look like they should and I'm having no problems with any of the switches) but I'm also practicing de-soldering on my techkeys business card before I take the iron to my Race 2, and I'm having a problem where I can't get all of the solder out of the joint (it circles around the bottom of the switch contact and I can't get it out) Anybody have any suggestions on how to get it out? I'm going to try wicking it out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:56:38
Alright, so soldering took me two seconds to master haha (at least all of my joints look like they should and I'm having no problems with any of the switches) but I'm also practicing de-soldering on my techkeys business card before I take the iron to my Race 2, and I'm having a problem where I can't get all of the solder out of the joint (it circles around the bottom of the switch contact and I can't get it out) Anybody have any suggestions on how to get it out? I'm going to try wicking it out.

Wick is an option, you can also try adding more solder and desoldering again or you can pull a bit on the switch while you heat the rest of the solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:57:40
Alright, so soldering took me two seconds to master haha (at least all of my joints look like they should and I'm having no problems with any of the switches) but I'm also practicing de-soldering on my techkeys business card before I take the iron to my Race 2, and I'm having a problem where I can't get all of the solder out of the joint (it circles around the bottom of the switch contact and I can't get it out) Anybody have any suggestions on how to get it out? I'm going to try wicking it out.

Wick is an option, you can also try adding more solder and desoldering again or you can pull a bit on the switch while you heat the rest of the solder.

Tried the other two already =( Seems wick is my last option haha. Thanks for the prompt response!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 08 April 2014, 19:32:23
If you are using a soldapullt from GHers, then I would say that you should be able to pull all the solder out, there is enough vacuum, what you want to do is, when you melt the solder with your iron, really get in there with soldapullt with the iron still touching the pad (Maybe your iron will touch the soldapullt tip, but don't worry, those are really tough). When I began using the soldapullt, I would bring the soldapullt to the pad just as I was removing the iron, since I use eutectic solder, this was enough time for some of the solder to solidify, I was scared of melting the tip, then I started to bring the soldapullt onto the pad at an angle, with the iron still toughing it, and then in a single swift motion remove the iron, tilt the soldapullt vertically up, right above the pad and completely covering it and pushing the button on it, all at the same time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 08 April 2014, 20:08:10
Tried the other two already =( Seems wick is my last option haha. Thanks for the prompt response!

You may have to add Flux before you add more solder and then repull it. I had to do this to clean up bad pulls. I found than the new solder did not reflow well enough otherwise. Something to try anyway.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 08 April 2014, 20:23:16
If you are using a soldapullt from GHers, then I would say that you should be able to pull all the solder out, there is enough vacuum, what you want to do is, when you melt the solder with your iron, really get in there with soldapullt with the iron still touching the pad (Maybe your iron will touch the soldapullt tip, but don't worry, those are really tough). When I began using the soldapullt, I would bring the soldapullt to the pad just as I was removing the iron, since I use eutectic solder, this was enough time for some of the solder to solidify, I was scared of melting the tip, then I started to bring the soldapullt onto the pad at an angle, with the iron still toughing it, and then in a single swift motion remove the iron, tilt the soldapullt vertically up, right above the pad and completely covering it and pushing the button on it, all at the same time.
the soldapullt tips are all high purity ptfe. they won't melt until they hit 260C. if you're quick, you can touch them to the iron and molten solder, hit the release button and pull away without damaging the tip at all. don't worry about pulling really hot fumes and solder into the barrel. the krytox that is lubricating the interior has an extreme high vapor pressure and a large amount of ptfe in it, and the gasket that forms the vacuum seal is a beefy oversized piece of FKM that is highly resistant to RA flux and has a melting point  around 200C. i actually pull flux fumes at temp into my soldapullt. you will find that you can pull so much crap in that it clogs very quickly however, so clean it fairly often.

one nice thing about cleaning a krytox lubricated barrel, by the way, is that you can just run water through it. krytox is extremely hydrophobic and will just sit there in the corner with a dunce cap on until all the solder has been flushed out.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 08 April 2014, 20:50:01
and will just sit there in the corner with a dunce cap on until all the solder has been flushed out.

I lol'd at this
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Tue, 08 April 2014, 22:02:09
Unfortunately I'm using one I picked up at Radio Shack. As suggested, I've been putting the tip to the tip of my iron (not entirely worried about ****ing up the tip of the puller because it came with extra) and that's been fine. I may run and pick up some flux. That's the last thing I haven't tried haha. The Wick worked for the most part, but I'd rather see if adding the flux works before I commit to using wick.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 08 April 2014, 22:06:59
Get a GH soldapullt
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 09 April 2014, 22:37:05
stay away from no-clean wick and wide diameter wick. wick is braided copper with flux on it. you have to heat the copper enough to ignite the flux, and if the wick has a lot of thermal mass, that means you need to pump a lot of power into it, which could damage your board.

no-clean, lead-free etc wicks have less effective flux on them. if you're going to go through the trouble of using wick, burning your fingers on it, etc, be picky about your wick. way back when, i used to get the ultra-corrosive mg chem braid, but with RoHS and eco everything they've discontinued it. chemtronics soder-wick rosin SD looks like it might work well. i would prefer an RA or even a halide fluxed wick, but at least it's rosin fluxed.

another possibility that i've never tried is to pick your flux of choice and get chemtronics unfluxed fine-braid wick. the flux i would pick would be my favorite MG chem 835, which is an activated rosin flux that wets well and is super easy to apply. apply the flux to the braid just before use, then press the braid to the joint and heat. you will burn your fingers, so i hope you have more nerves than you want on your fingertips; that's just the way it is with wick. as soon as the solder melts, it should flow into the braid by capillary action.

it's incredibly important to stop heating the wick and to gently pull it away from the joint as soon as this happens. if you leave the iron on the joint too long, you risk burning your board (and not just your fingertips). if you pull the iron away and way too long to pull the braid off the joint, the solder could form a solid joint between the pad and the braid, and you could end up ripping the pad off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 09 April 2014, 22:57:05
Thanks for the details on wicks. I have never used a wick, but that all makes sense.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 10 April 2014, 00:32:49
Welp, I decided to just gamble and start de-soldering on my Race 2. I had no problems whatsoever as far as de-soldering on the board, just on the techkeys card for some reason.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 10 April 2014, 00:34:13
Welp, I decided to just gamble and start de-soldering on my Race 2. I had no problems whatsoever as far as de-soldering on the board, just on the techkeys card for some reason.

Plated through holes on multi layered PCBs are much more difficult to desolder than a single sided PCB.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 10 April 2014, 00:48:22
Welp, I decided to just gamble and start de-soldering on my Race 2. I had no problems whatsoever as far as de-soldering on the board, just on the techkeys card for some reason.

Plated through holes on multi layered PCBs are much more difficult to desolder than a single sided PCB.
Race 2 is a dual layer
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 10 April 2014, 00:49:49
Welp, I decided to just gamble and start de-soldering on my Race 2. I had no problems whatsoever as far as de-soldering on the board, just on the techkeys card for some reason.

Plated through holes on multi layered PCBs are much more difficult to desolder than a single sided PCB.
Race 2 is a dual layer

Could be the solder used.  I have seen that make it more difficult to desolder.  In particular lead free solder is a pain.  I usually just go through and add some Kester solder to any board I desolder especially the older ones.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: exitfire401 on Thu, 10 April 2014, 00:52:54
Welp, I decided to just gamble and start de-soldering on my Race 2. I had no problems whatsoever as far as de-soldering on the board, just on the techkeys card for some reason.

Plated through holes on multi layered PCBs are much more difficult to desolder than a single sided PCB.
Race 2 is a dual layer

Could be the solder used.  I have seen that make it more difficult to desolder.  In particular lead free solder is a pain.  I usually just go through and add some Kester solder to any board I desolder especially the older ones.

Probably is. I knew age was a little bit of a factor in older solder, so I made sure to ask how long what I purchased had been on the shelf. Turned out to be a little under a year. I'll probably spend some decent money and go buy some kester before I re-solder into the race
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 10 April 2014, 00:55:09
Welp, I decided to just gamble and start de-soldering on my Race 2. I had no problems whatsoever as far as de-soldering on the board, just on the techkeys card for some reason.

Plated through holes on multi layered PCBs are much more difficult to desolder than a single sided PCB.
Race 2 is a dual layer

Could be the solder used.  I have seen that make it more difficult to desolder.  In particular lead free solder is a pain.  I usually just go through and add some Kester solder to any board I desolder especially the older ones.

Probably is. I knew age was a little bit of a factor in older solder, so I made sure to ask how long what I purchased had been on the shelf. Turned out to be a little under a year. I'll probably spend some decent money and go buy some kester before I re-solder into the race

Get in touch with mkawa on that one.  He might have some in stock yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 April 2014, 02:37:51
there will be an announcement pretty soon regarding that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 10 April 2014, 08:19:09
I hate whick, burnt too much fingers, no thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Thu, 10 April 2014, 09:04:15
I hate whick, burnt too much fingers, no thanks.

i agree.  while whick still has its use and place (especially with pre-soldered boards) i greatly prefer my soldapullit.  that little edyson solder sucker (also not so little i was freaked out when it arrived and it wasnt the size of a pen like it thought it was going to be) just sucks everything up i throw at it.  my only complaint is that the tip be made of a more temperature resistant (but non conductive) material that doesnt easily melt.  see many times when i am using the solder sucker i have to place the sucker near my tip as i heat up the solder.  i have melted the soldapullit tip quite a bit through use. 

whatever though it is way better than whick.  whick is so messy and slow.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 10 April 2014, 20:30:05
What temperature do yo have your iron at? I have touched my soldapullt tip to the iron several times but no melted it one bit yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 10 April 2014, 22:42:55
I hate whick, burnt too much fingers, no thanks.

i agree.  while whick still has its use and place (especially with pre-soldered boards) i greatly prefer my soldapullit.  that little edyson solder sucker (also not so little i was freaked out when it arrived and it wasnt the size of a pen like it thought it was going to be) just sucks everything up i throw at it.  my only complaint is that the tip be made of a more temperature resistant (but non conductive) material that doesnt easily melt.  see many times when i am using the solder sucker i have to place the sucker near my tip as i heat up the solder.  i have melted the soldapullit tip quite a bit through use. 

whatever though it is way better than whick.  whick is so messy and slow.

the tips are very replaceable if you're soldering hot enough to go through them, and they are quite inexpensive. melt point on the tips is 260C, which is about as high as you're going to get with a plastic. you may be leaving it on the joint for too long. try hovering the tip over the joint for a bit until it melts, then pop it over the joint (you can leave the iron there) hit the button and move it away again. if you didn't get everything, just pull the iron away for a second or two, and repeat.

one of the first videos i will be making will be a HOWTO on fully rebuilding a soldapullt. that should help people see the scale of how darned long the thing is. it's _definitely_ not the size of any pencil i've ever used ;). ask cptbadass about how he first reacted to his soldapullt. bwahahaha
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 11 April 2014, 02:27:34
I hate whick, burnt too much fingers, no thanks.

i agree.  while whick still has its use and place (especially with pre-soldered boards) i greatly prefer my soldapullit.  that little edyson solder sucker (also not so little i was freaked out when it arrived and it wasnt the size of a pen like it thought it was going to be) just sucks everything up i throw at it.  my only complaint is that the tip be made of a more temperature resistant (but non conductive) material that doesnt easily melt.  see many times when i am using the solder sucker i have to place the sucker near my tip as i heat up the solder.  i have melted the soldapullit tip quite a bit through use. 

whatever though it is way better than whick.  whick is so messy and slow.

the tips are very replaceable if you're soldering hot enough to go through them, and they are quite inexpensive. melt point on the tips is 260C, which is about as high as you're going to get with a plastic. you may be leaving it on the joint for too long. try hovering the tip over the joint for a bit until it melts, then pop it over the joint (you can leave the iron there) hit the button and move it away again. if you didn't get everything, just pull the iron away for a second or two, and repeat.

one of the first videos i will be making will be a HOWTO on fully rebuilding a soldapullt. that should help people see the scale of how darned long the thing is. it's _definitely_ not the size of any pencil i've ever used ;). ask cptbadass about how he first reacted to his soldapullt. bwahahaha

So much cursing...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tricheboars on Fri, 11 April 2014, 15:23:42
What temperature do yo have your iron at? I have touched my soldapullt tip to the iron several times but no melted it one bit yet.

i run my hakko fx888d at 666 degrees cause...satan. but in all seriousness it should run at 350C which is 662F.  i just add a few degrees for the devil.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 13 April 2014, 11:24:26
What flux should I get? I would prefer if it was on amazon with prime, and I don't need a ton of it, just enough for a 60% board and maybe a bit more.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:46:17
this is a fine choice: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0080X79HG/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

it's absolutely hilarious that amazon will ship you a liter of the stuff without any MSDS, explosives warning or chemical packaging at all. bwahaha.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:50:33
this is a fine choice: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0080X79HG/ref=biss_dp_t_asn

it's absolutely hilarious that amazon will ship you a liter of the stuff without any MSDS, explosives warning or chemical packaging at all. bwahaha.
Thanks :D

What is your opinion on the pens? I can either get the pen with 10ml for $6, or a 125ml bottle for $8. If the pen is easier, then by all means I will get it, but couldn't I just get the bottle and apply it with a q-tip or something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:54:15
if you get a straight bottle, you have to figure out how to dispense it. the pen is a dispenser, so go with that if you don't have little dispensing bottles lying around (i use a 2" 25ga stainless steel luer lock needle on a 0.5oz squeeze bottle, but have to change the flux regularly, because it hardens with oxygen exposure and UV exposure).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:56:01
if you get a straight bottle, you have to figure out how to dispense it. the pen is a dispenser, so go with that if you don't have little dispensing bottles lying around (i use a 2" 25ga stainless steel luer lock needle on a 0.5oz squeeze bottle, but have to change the flux regularly, because it hardens with oxygen exposure and UV exposure).
Sounds like I just need the pen then, I am only building a 60% board, but I am soldering the switches, leds, resistors, and diodes. Do you think that is enough flux?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 13 April 2014, 19:58:17
yah. remember that solder contains flux in the center. extra flux is needed when you're reflowing joints, have a particularly nasty component to solder (heavily oxidized leads, for example) etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 13 April 2014, 20:02:30
yah. remember that solder contains flux in the center. extra flux is needed when you're reflowing joints, have a particularly nasty component to solder (heavily oxidized leads, for example) etc.

Well, the reason I was wanting it is because sometimes when I am soldering a join, it just wont flow right. I was soldering a techkeys business card recently and 4 of the 6 solder points were perfect as far as I am concerned, but for 2 of them, the solder just wasn't flowing right, it just didn't want to stick to the pins and pads.

I would add more solder, and it would just start balling up on the top of the pin, or only on one side of the pad. I am not doing anything wrong as far as I can tell, and I can only think flux could help.

Or is this caused by something different?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 14 April 2014, 01:04:28
the pad is not hot enough. this will be easier to see once i make the first high mag soldering video, but molten solder will only "stick" to metal that is sufficiently hot and not oxidized. when you heat up a joint, your goal is to get BOTH surfaces of the joint up to the melt point of the solder (190c for 63/37 eutectic). that often means creating a small heat bridge that connects the tip of the iron to both surfaces. it may also mean a larger tip to flow more power into the joint. it's hard to tell from your description.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SaySo on Tue, 15 April 2014, 09:53:32
[size=78%]Soldering flux[/size]

Kester 44 .032 diameter solder(.020 for SMD) -
63/37 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-074 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-074)
.020 - http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-072 (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=370-072)
[/size]

Hello,


I don't know if someone tried this :
Can we use the 0.020 Kester44 for all the soldering or it is too thin ?

Cheers
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 15 April 2014, 10:26:47
for bigger joints you just feed more solder. 0.02 is a very good general purpose size. it's small enough for SMT and big enough that you don't spend half an hour feeding solder into big joints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SaySo on Tue, 15 April 2014, 10:38:56
.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 15 April 2014, 16:00:23
two options: put a little clip-on heatsink on the part (they look like little binder clips and can be found at any electronics store. heck, you can use little binder clips). other option: heat joint, feed, let joint cool a bit, heat joint, feed, let joint cool a bit, and so on.

remember that big joints sink more heat, and that solder often wets as it cools, so it's actually preferable to add small amounts of solder at a time to any joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:08:46
So, I desoldered a whole filco today and around 3 of the little switch holes got their copper coating pulled off with the switch pins for whatever reason. Is this going to cause any problems?

Pic:
(http://i.imgur.com/alcokw0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:13:00
So, I desoldered a whole filco today and around 3 of the little switch holes got their copper coating pulled off with the switch pins for whatever reason. Is this going to cause any problems?

Pic:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/alcokw0.jpg)


Yes.  There will not be anything for the solder to stick to aside from the pin.  Chances are the best bet will be to follow the traces to the next switch and run a wire from that pin with the lifted pad to the next pad down the line.  I have done it.  Check out the link in my signature for the HDD activity LED in my Esc key.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:19:37
yes. you're going to need to connect that pin to metal when you resolder. you have a couple options. the most straightforward is to run a jumper between the equivalent diode joint and that pin.

another option is to get very aggressive with your flux and solder application and effectively solder the pin to the pad on the other side of the board. you'll have to aggressively tin and flux that pad, put the pin through, then heat your pin up and jam your solder through the thru-hole that the pin is sticking out of. pcb coating over the trace with an x-acto knife, then bend your pin over to touch the trace you exposed. solder the pin to the exposed trace.

the "proper" way to fix this is to use conductive epoxy to glue a new pad on. it's a huge pain and almost no one does that unless it's really really imperative that they repair the pcb by the book.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:32:05
Hmm, that sucks :(

I just got frustrated and I did solder the 3 messed up switches to be sure, all three seem to be working fine in aquakeytest, is everything fine if they are reading correctly?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:35:19
yep, you're in good shape if they work. those pads and holes are large and it's highly possible that you soldered through the thru-hole when you put the new keys on. good stuff!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:35:56
Hmm, that sucks :(

I just got frustrated and I did solder the 3 messed up switches to be sure, all three seem to be working fine in aquakeytest, is everything fine if they are reading correctly?



Chances are you ended up getting enough solder down the hole to connect the pin to the pad on the other side.

Sniped by Mkawa
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:42:38
Yeah, I shove my .20 solder all the way down the hole and fill it up, so it should be all good then :D

I just got so frustrated after 4+ hours of desoldering this stupid thing.

Thanks you two!  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:45:25
Yeah, I shove my .20 solder all the way down the hole and fill it up, so it should be all good then :D

I just got so frustrated after 4+ hours of desoldering this stupid thing.

Thanks you two!  :thumb:

There ya go.

This is the definition of filling a hole with solder.  Try the slot with a switch pin.  It is compatible with both MX and Alps switches.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 22 April 2014, 10:45:05
I'm making some mini usb cables (attempting to) and I am finding it extremely hard to solder the wires on to the mini usb pads. The wires are almost bigger than the pads! Any tips?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 22 April 2014, 11:47:27
I'm making some mini usb cables (attempting to) and I am finding it extremely hard to solder the wires on to the mini usb pads. The wires are almost bigger than the pads! Any tips?

What size wire are you using?

Are you tinning both the pads and the wire?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 22 April 2014, 13:02:24
I'm making some mini usb cables (attempting to) and I am finding it extremely hard to solder the wires on to the mini usb pads. The wires are almost bigger than the pads! Any tips?

My advice would be:
- Flux your wire and tin it with solder.
- Flux the pad and put a small amount of solder on the pad.
- Flux both the wire and the pad again.  Hold the wire onto the pad.  Heat and let the solders reflow and remove the iron without moving the wire.

Is this what you are doing?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 22 April 2014, 13:12:24
I'm making some mini usb cables (attempting to) and I am finding it extremely hard to solder the wires on to the mini usb pads. The wires are almost bigger than the pads! Any tips?

My advice would be:
- Flux your wire and tin it with solder.
- Flux the pad and put a small amount of solder on the pad.
- Flux both the wire and the pad again.  Hold the wire onto the pad.  Heat and let the solders reflow and remove the iron without moving the wire.

Is this what you are doing?

He just described what I do for a living better than I did.  GG
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 22 April 2014, 14:40:36
I'm making some mini usb cables (attempting to) and I am finding it extremely hard to solder the wires on to the mini usb pads. The wires are almost bigger than the pads! Any tips?

My advice would be:
- Flux your wire and tin it with solder.
- Flux the pad and put a small amount of solder on the pad.
- Flux both the wire and the pad again.  Hold the wire onto the pad.  Heat and let the solders reflow and remove the iron without moving the wire.

Is this what you are doing?

He just described what I do for a living better than I did.  GG

Sorry. Didn't mean to trump your answer. :P  I gave a lot of detail because I did not realize how important fluxing both tinned surfaces was till I struggled with it. I figured the detail would be helpful.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 22 April 2014, 17:52:32
I'm making some mini usb cables (attempting to) and I am finding it extremely hard to solder the wires on to the mini usb pads. The wires are almost bigger than the pads! Any tips?

My advice would be:
- Flux your wire and tin it with solder.
- Flux the pad and put a small amount of solder on the pad.
- Flux both the wire and the pad again.  Hold the wire onto the pad.  Heat and let the solders reflow and remove the iron without moving the wire.

Is this what you are doing?

He just described what I do for a living better than I did.  GG

Sorry. Didn't mean to trump your answer. :P  I gave a lot of detail because I did not realize how important fluxing both tinned surfaces was till I struggled with it. I figured the detail would be helpful.

No, you're fine!  I was just amused.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 22 April 2014, 20:00:34
you can actually use clips to hold the hookup wire onto the pad. just make sure you don't flux the clip and keep the temperatures low and away from the clip and like magic, the clip will not attach to the joint. this will result in an electrically stronger joint because both sides of the joint will have been significantly more still at the phase change from liquid to solid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 22 April 2014, 21:29:17
you can actually use clips to hold the hookup wire onto the pad. just make sure you don't flux the clip and keep the temperatures low and away from the clip and like magic, the clip will not attach to the joint. this will result in an electrically stronger joint because both sides of the joint will have been significantly more still at the phase change from liquid to solid.

Ya, it is really hard to pick up the soldering iron off the wire and not have the wire move at all.  This does make sense.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Tue, 22 April 2014, 22:14:48
Are helping hands that... helpful? If so, can anyone suggest a nice pair that I could get a for [hopefully] under $15, or $20? (Planning on getting two to hold up both sides of PCB
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 22 April 2014, 22:18:08
Are helping hands that... helpful? If so, can anyone suggest a nice pair that I could get a for [hopefully] under $15, or $20? (Planning on getting two to hold up both sides of PCB

No.  get one of these (http://panavise.com/index.html?pageID=1&page=full&--eqskudatarq=2).  I will do the physical mods that I did for the batch for Mkawa for $20 plus shipping.

I have both helping hands and modded panavise.  I have not even touched the helping hands (except to take it off my work desk) since I got my vise.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Tue, 22 April 2014, 22:26:59
Are helping hands that... helpful? If so, can anyone suggest a nice pair that I could get a for [hopefully] under $15, or $20? (Planning on getting two to hold up both sides of PCB

No.  get one of these (http://panavise.com/index.html?pageID=1&page=full&--eqskudatarq=2).  I will do the physical mods that I did for the batch for Mkawa for $20 plus shipping.

I have both helping hands and modded panavise.  I have not even touched the helping hands (except to take it off my work desk) since I got my vise.

What mods did you do? Can you link me to the thread or just describe the details? (What happened to the batch you did for Mkawa? Was this distributed/sold already?)

Sorry a lot of questions. Relatively new here.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 22 April 2014, 22:38:04
Are helping hands that... helpful? If so, can anyone suggest a nice pair that I could get a for [hopefully] under $15, or $20? (Planning on getting two to hold up both sides of PCB

No.  get one of these (http://panavise.com/index.html?pageID=1&page=full&--eqskudatarq=2).  I will do the physical mods that I did for the batch for Mkawa for $20 plus shipping.

I have both helping hands and modded panavise.  I have not even touched the helping hands (except to take it off my work desk) since I got my vise.

What mods did you do? Can you link me to the thread or just describe the details? (What happened to the batch you did for Mkawa? Was this distributed/sold already?)

Sorry a lot of questions. Relatively new here.

Here is the thread.  And in a nutshell what I did was drilled out the center fixator bolt (5/16-18 UNC) to a larger size and installed a Mill Spec locking threaded insert for 1/4-28 UNF.  Both the insert and the both are class 3 fit threads so there in zero slop in the bolt and should have at least 80% thread engagement.  There is also a spring steel piece in the middle that was swapped out for a delrin washer.  Essentially this is it aside from me taking to get powdercoated.  This you would be on your own for.  I also cleaned up some of the horrible castings in areas where the move in relation to each other to make the movement a lot smoother.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 22 April 2014, 22:43:55
welcome to geekhack!

yah, the original run of geekhack panavises is sold out. there were only 24, and we had them powdercoated, drilled out for larger fixator bolts, and changed the janky copper shims out for glass fiber reinforced delrin. i also lubricated each one by hand and because of the thickness of the powdercoat, was able to smooth the ballhead action out significantly with large durable o-rings.

melvang can set you up with the larger fixator bolt and the more durable shim. this makes a _huge_ improvement in the holding ability of the ballhead. i still have more o-rings and the longer bolts that were needed for fitment, but i have no idea if they will fit the castings without the extra 5-6 mils from the two-layer powdercoat we used. i literally went through like 6-10 bolt and o-ring sizes to get fitment for the powdercoated vises right.

unfortunately, i won't be doing another run of the whole enchilada due to the cost and effort involved, but i have been using panavises for many many years and they're pretty much the bees knees regardless. even if you don't do any modification, they're actually useful for electronics work, which is much more than i can say for any third hand tool i've ever used or seen.

thread is here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51148.0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 22 April 2014, 22:47:20
as for the clips i mentioned before, i just use standard electronics surplus alligator clip leads.

for example: http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-TL-6-Standard-Alligator-10-Piece/dp/B0002JJU28/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398224698&sr=8-1&keywords=alligator+clips

clip one end on the workpiece so that it forces a mechanical connection between the two parts of the joint and the then solder the joint. the alligator clip has far more thermal mass than the rest of the joint, so it's nearly impossible to make it part of the joint electrically. let the solder cool and then unclip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Jrwestcoast on Tue, 22 April 2014, 23:30:57
Do you have any pics of how you set the clips to the wire?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 22 April 2014, 23:37:02
i was actually going to make a quick video but got distracted by a bug in the forum. i can set something up and take a quick potato-cam pic though. give me a second.

edit: here's a not-potato-cam picture of a completely random pad on my toothbrush. i took some video of the process that i probably won't have time to edit until tomorrow
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 23 April 2014, 06:32:16
i was actually going to make a quick video but got distracted by a bug in the forum. i can set something up and take a quick potato-cam pic though. give me a second.

edit: here's a not-potato-cam picture of a completely random pad on my toothbrush. i took some video of the process that i probably won't have time to edit until tomorrow

Hang on. Are you modding your electric toothbrush?!?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Wed, 23 April 2014, 07:42:39
Wait, so you don't have an overclocked toothbrush?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 23 April 2014, 08:01:48
i needed to replace the battery
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sat, 26 April 2014, 19:18:22
The tip of my soldapult just popped off.. Does anyone have any experience with this?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 26 April 2014, 19:49:54
push it back on!

it really is that simple :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 27 April 2014, 11:46:25
 
push it back on!

it really is that simple :)

You can't. It looks like it was glued on. No threading or anything. Its an SS350 by the way. I've only used it for about an hour and one time when pushing the spring down the top just shot off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 27 April 2014, 11:50:30
You can't. It looks like it was glued on. No threading or anything. Its an SS350 by the way. I've only used it for about an hour and one time when pushing the spring down the top just shot off.

They're not glued on since they should be exchangeable. If you push down too far, the tip will pop off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 27 April 2014, 12:06:07
You can't. It looks like it was glued on. No threading or anything. Its an SS350 by the way. I've only used it for about an hour and one time when pushing the spring down the top just shot off.

They're not glued on since they should be exchangeable. If you push down too far, the tip will pop off.

It's so strange, I know the tips are removable but it looks like the threading completely popped off and flew across the room because it's no where to be found. RIP soldapult.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 27 April 2014, 12:17:29
It's so strange, I know the tips are removable but it looks like the threading completely popped off and flew across the room because it's no where to be found. RIP soldapult.

There's no threading on mine, you just need to push really hard until it pops in again. Here's mkawa's video where he disassembles and reassembles a sodapullt, he pops the tip back in around 13 minutes:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 27 April 2014, 12:25:50
Here, check it out: To me it looks like it ripped off and there was some sort of adhesive holding it together.


(http://i.imgur.com/J5oYNxG.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 27 April 2014, 12:41:42
Here, check it out: To me it looks like it ripped off and there was some sort of adhesive holding it together.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/J5oYNxG.jpg)


I'm pretty sure that's just dirt. See that "lip" on the tip? I think that is what holds it together.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 27 April 2014, 12:45:54
Building my first board tomorrow or tuesday, 488(?) solder points.  ;D

Thanks for all the help from this thread, I think I am ready.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 27 April 2014, 12:46:31
Building my first board tomorrow or tuesday, 488(?) solder points.  ;D

Thanks for all the help from this thread, I think I am ready.

Good luck! :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Sun, 27 April 2014, 13:02:34
Here, check it out: To me it looks like it ripped off and there was some sort of adhesive holding it together.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/J5oYNxG.jpg)


I'm pretty sure that's just dirt. See that "lip" on the tip? I think that is what holds it together.

I've come to the conclusion that it is unfixable. The lip just started falling apart and was very soft. Thanks for the help though!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 27 April 2014, 13:53:10
I've come to the conclusion that it is unfixable. The lip just started falling apart and was very soft. Thanks for the help though!

That's really weird O.o
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Sun, 27 April 2014, 23:11:03
I'm contemplating on purchasing this one:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57532.0

Is it recommended for a beginner to mid desoldering? How about it's quality? I was kinda tired of using cheap soldapullt which have end up me destroying the pcb for too much heat applied. :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Sun, 27 April 2014, 23:32:12
Aren't mkawa's soldapults going to be sold for $30 too?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 28 April 2014, 03:04:15
I'm contemplating on purchasing this one:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57532.0

Is it recommended for a beginner to mid desoldering? How about it's quality? I was kinda tired of using cheap soldapullt which have end up me destroying the pcb for too much heat applied. :(

If you apply too much heat that is not the fault auf your sodapullt?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Mon, 28 April 2014, 04:44:09
I'm contemplating on purchasing this one:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57532.0

Is it recommended for a beginner to mid desoldering? How about it's quality? I was kinda tired of using cheap soldapullt which have end up me destroying the pcb for too much heat applied. :(

If you apply too much heat that is not the fault auf your sodapullt?

Yeah I guess, but the cheap one I tried sometimes failed in the first try resulting to many attempts on sucking the solder. In the end too much heat is applied.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Mon, 28 April 2014, 04:47:31
Yeah I guess, but the cheap one I tried sometimes failed in the first try resulting to many attempts on sucking the solder. In the end too much heat is applied.

Try lowering the temperature of your iron. What temperature are you using right now? I usually have to use the sucker multiple times before I get a switch completly loose. The joys of lead free solder...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Mon, 28 April 2014, 06:33:27
Try lowering the temperature of your iron. What temperature are you using right now? I usually have to use the sucker multiple times before I get a switch completly loose. The joys of lead free solder...

Usually in 300-350C. that's the recommended temps right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Mon, 28 April 2014, 07:46:57
Try lowering the temperature of your iron. What temperature are you using right now? I usually have to use the sucker multiple times before I get a switch completly loose. The joys of lead free solder...

Usually in 300-350C. that's the recommended temps right?

Yeah fine - I normally leave my station on 350 for 60/40 solder.

If your first attempt to suck the solder up fails - re fill the hole, and then heat it until you see the solder drop into the hole, then try again, but this second time, before you use the solderpult, try to just heat for a little longer.

Heat doesn't really kill stuff (I know it does, but it doesn't really for us building keyboards) but it's more about having too much load and a bad thermal interface ie. heating the wrong bit, or just having an iron with loads of watts. I tend to do all my soldering with a 35w iron, as I use leaded solder - desoldering I have a 70w vacuum powered station so I can easily desolder stock boards that have ROHS solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 28 April 2014, 08:06:28
If your first attempt to suck the solder up fails - re fill the hole, and then heat it until you see the solder drop into the hole, then try again, but this second time, before you use the solderpult, try to just heat for a little longer.
+1  :thumb:

Yeah I guess, but the cheap one I tried sometimes failed in the first try resulting to many attempts on sucking the solder. In the end too much heat is applied.

Ok, I think I understand your situation.
I think you used a weak desoldering pump. So you need to use it multiple times in order to desolder a single key switch.

In order to desolder keyboard switch, you should better use a desoldering pump with at least 40cm-Hg suction capability, which is like this one
(http://www.edsyn.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/ds017lp.jpg)
http://www.edsyn.com/product/DHT/DS017.html
You can contact mkawa if you want to purchase a good and authentic one.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54316.0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Mon, 28 April 2014, 08:11:15
Try lowering the temperature of your iron. What temperature are you using right now? I usually have to use the sucker multiple times before I get a switch completly loose. The joys of lead free solder...

Usually in 300-350C. that's the recommended temps right?

Yeah fine - I normally leave my station on 350 for 60/40 solder.

If your first attempt to suck the solder up fails - re fill the hole, and then heat it until you see the solder drop into the hole, then try again, but this second time, before you use the solderpult, try to just heat for a little longer.

Heat doesn't really kill stuff (I know it does, but it doesn't really for us building keyboards) but it's more about having too much load and a bad thermal interface ie. heating the wrong bit, or just having an iron with loads of watts. I tend to do all my soldering with a 35w iron, as I use leaded solder - desoldering I have a 70w vacuum powered station so I can easily desolder stock boards that have ROHS solder.

Thanks. Quite new to some of the terms you have mentioned. I better check the OP and wikis.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:16:06
Does anyone have an idea why I can't add an LED to the left windows key of my Poker 2?

It has never had an LED installed in that switch.

I had no problems whatsoever with other switches.

If I wiggle it around, it comes on, but more dim than the others.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:19:13
Does anyone have an idea why I can't add an LED to the left windows key of my Poker 2?
It has never had an LED installed in that switch.
I had no problems whatsoever with other switches.
If I wiggle it around, it comes on, but more dim than the others.

I think other members already faced and had a resolution for this.
You can use search function for further information.
For example:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48803.0
(http://i.imgur.com/YfryyBr.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:22:29
Does anyone have an idea why I can't add an LED to the left windows key of my Poker 2?
It has never had an LED installed in that switch.
I had no problems whatsoever with other switches.
If I wiggle it around, it comes on, but more dim than the others.

I think other members already faced and had a resolution for this.
You can use search function for further information.
For example:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48803.0
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/YfryyBr.jpg)


What am I supposed to be looking at? I didn't destroy the pads at all. It's fresh and has never had an LED installed.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:22:54
Does anyone have an idea why I can't add an LED to the left windows key of my Poker 2?

It has never had an LED installed in that switch.

I had no problems whatsoever with other switches.

If I wiggle it around, it comes on, but more dim than the others.

Maybe the soldering or the LED is bad? Try soldering in a new one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:24:45
Does anyone have an idea why I can't add an LED to the left windows key of my Poker 2?

It has never had an LED installed in that switch.

I had no problems whatsoever with other switches.

If I wiggle it around, it comes on, but more dim than the others.

Thanks BlueBar,

I have tried mutiple LEDs and redone the soldering job. I have also removed all solder and put the leads in without soldering and bent them around. Even when it does come on, it's extremely dim in comparison to the same white LEDs I have on the other swithces.

Maybe the soldering or the LED is bad? Try soldering in a new one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:27:49
Thanks BlueBar,

I have tried mutiple LEDs and redone the soldering job. I have also removed all solder and put the leads in without soldering and bent them around. Even when it does come on, it's extremely dim in comparison to the same white LEDs I have on the other swithces.

Maybe a resistor for the LED is broken? Not sure.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:44:58
The reason you cannot add an led to it is because the left windows key also functions as caps lock(I think) if you use a dip switch. This is normal, although it should have had an led inside of it to begin with.

Source: I just added leds to my poker last night
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 11:51:52
The reason you cannot add an led to it is because the left windows key also functions as caps lock(I think) if you use a dip switch. This is normal, although it should have had an led inside of it to begin with.

Source: I just added leds to my poker last night

My Poker 2 has a LED in the left win key as well. But it's a white coloured one. Probably same as the one on the caps lock indicator.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Tue, 29 April 2014, 13:19:50
Okay so I guess I will use the pads from the unused switch on the pcb above.

How do I do this? I soldered some LED leads to the pads and when I touch an LED to them it lights up.

But, if I put that LED through the switch and then touch the two, it does not.

Now, do I have to remove the pads? I'm confused.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 30 April 2014, 21:54:05
Does anyone that lives in a dorm in college have advice on how/when they solder? I just read my housing contract's guidelines on fire safety and prohibited items, and all heating appliances (which would definitely include soldering irons) are banned inside the dorms.

Am I pretty much out of luck here? (Only good thing is that I live about 40 minutes away from my college so if I really need to go home I could).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Wed, 30 April 2014, 22:00:20
If I take this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C5HUI8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A136TEY25G8OA7

put on back of fan, will it be a solder fume sucker?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 30 April 2014, 22:09:58
If I take this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005C5HUI8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A136TEY25G8OA7

put on back of fan, will it be a solder fume sucker?

Not a good one.  kawa has a write up linked in here somewhere of one he built with a flat rate box.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 30 April 2014, 22:25:56
Does anyone that lives in a dorm in college have advice on how/when they solder? I just read my housing contract's guidelines on fire safety and prohibited items, and all heating appliances (which would definitely include soldering irons) are banned inside the dorms.

Am I pretty much out of luck here? (Only good thing is that I live about 40 minutes away from my college so if I really need to go home I could).

This might not be the most productive advice, but it's certainly exactly what I did when I lived in the dorms.

I just used my soldering iron.  My roommate and I were both EE and needed to solder, so we just did.  We also used a toaster and a hot plate though, so we weren't exactly model dorm tenants.  On the flip side, however, our dorm also flooded with sewage, so the dorm wasn't exactly a model...dorm...either.

Anyway, that's the best advice I can offer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 30 April 2014, 22:42:29
Does anyone that lives in a dorm in college have advice on how/when they solder? I just read my housing contract's guidelines on fire safety and prohibited items, and all heating appliances (which would definitely include soldering irons) are banned inside the dorms.

Am I pretty much out of luck here? (Only good thing is that I live about 40 minutes away from my college so if I really need to go home I could).

This might not be the most productive advice, but it's certainly exactly what I did when I lived in the dorms.

I just used my soldering iron.  My roommate and I were both EE and needed to solder, so we just did.  We also used a toaster and a hot plate though, so we weren't exactly model dorm tenants.  On the flip side, however, our dorm also flooded with sewage, so the dorm wasn't exactly a model...dorm...either.

So basically just solder in secret and hope my roommate is chill?

Quote
Anyway, that's the best advice I can offer.

Yea, I suppose this question has too many other variables to it to be answered that adequately. I was just hoping for some clever ideas of places to solder or something. It was mostly a desperation/panic post after the thought occurred to me today :p

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 30 April 2014, 22:51:01
Does anyone that lives in a dorm in college have advice on how/when they solder? I just read my housing contract's guidelines on fire safety and prohibited items, and all heating appliances (which would definitely include soldering irons) are banned inside the dorms.

Am I pretty much out of luck here? (Only good thing is that I live about 40 minutes away from my college so if I really need to go home I could).

This might not be the most productive advice, but it's certainly exactly what I did when I lived in the dorms.

I just used my soldering iron.  My roommate and I were both EE and needed to solder, so we just did.  We also used a toaster and a hot plate though, so we weren't exactly model dorm tenants.  On the flip side, however, our dorm also flooded with sewage, so the dorm wasn't exactly a model...dorm...either.

So basically just solder in secret and hope my roommate is chill?

Quote
Anyway, that's the best advice I can offer.

Yea, I suppose this question has too many other variables to it to be answered that adequately. I was just hoping for some clever ideas of places to solder or something. It was mostly a desperation/panic post after the thought occurred to me today :p

Well honestly I don't think I met anyone in my time at college who wouldn't be okay with me soldering in the room.  xD  But maybe that's just lucky of me.

As for other more productive ideas: do you have any labs you could get access to?  If you have any EE labs you might be able to get time in them to work on projects such as this, but I don't really know for sure.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 01 May 2014, 15:09:54
another link to my flat rate box KING OF SOLDER fume SUCKERS

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40060.msg791820#msg791820
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Thu, 01 May 2014, 18:53:39
got two issues:

issue #1: Spacebar doesn't work. Desoldered the key, saw that the pins were rusted, so I put in a new one. Still doesnt work and I see gunk surrounding the pads. Think previous owner must have spilled something. Gunk is pretty hard to get out

edit: going to put wires from spacebar to menu key and remap menu to spacebar
edit2: it worked! spacebar now works through AHK

issue #2: (different board) '" cap doesn't work. Looked at PCB, one of the pads on the PCB was physically lose from the PCB. Desoldered, ended up peeling off the pad. Solder won't flow accross the gap to the traces, what do?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: infiniti on Fri, 02 May 2014, 03:21:44
Could I use this to clean flux from PCBs?

Quick-Dry Electronic Cleaner: http://www.cyclo.com/C87.html

Safety Data Sheet: http://cyclo.com/MSDS/SDS/C87_SDS.pdf
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 05:18:06
Could I use this to clean flux from PCBs?

Quick-Dry Electronic Cleaner: http://www.cyclo.com/C87.html

Safety Data Sheet: http://cyclo.com/MSDS/SDS/C87_SDS.pdf

I'm not sure about that but I'm pretty sure this MG Chemical 824 Isopropyl Alcohol will work perfectly
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/electronic-cleaners/isopropyl-alcohol-824/

Edit: After checking, I think the Quick-Dry Electronic Cleaner is for cleaning the contact points, so I don't think it works for flux cleaning purpose
http://www.cyclo.com/PDF/pis/ENG/C87_ENG.pdf
"Removes soil and other contaminants from electrical and electronic parts"
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: infiniti on Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:46:31
Could I use this to clean flux from PCBs?

Quick-Dry Electronic Cleaner: http://www.cyclo.com/C87.html

Safety Data Sheet: http://cyclo.com/MSDS/SDS/C87_SDS.pdf

I'm not sure about that but I'm pretty sure this MG Chemical 824 Isopropyl Alcohol will work perfectly
http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/cleaners/electronic-cleaners/isopropyl-alcohol-824/

Edit: After checking, I think the Quick-Dry Electronic Cleaner is for cleaning the contact points, so I don't think it works for flux cleaning purpose
http://www.cyclo.com/PDF/pis/ENG/C87_ENG.pdf
"Removes soil and other contaminants from electrical and electronic parts"

I see.  Can I use 70% isopropyl alcohol?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 07:57:51
I see.  Can I use 70% isopropyl alcohol?

If you already had it, you can try it. If you didn't, you should go for 99% because I think 70% isopropyl alcohol (+30% water) is very weak for cleaning flux residue. That doesn't count the fact that there is 30% of water left on the surface after cleaning. That's why 99% isopropyl alcohol is recommended.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: infiniti on Fri, 02 May 2014, 08:09:15
I see.  Can I use 70% isopropyl alcohol?

If you already had it, you can try it. If you didn't, you should go for 99% because I think 70% isopropyl alcohol (+30% water) is very weak for cleaning flux residue. That doesn't count the fact that there is 30% of water left on the surface after cleaning. That's why 99% isopropyl alcohol is recommended.

Tried a little on one part of the PCB and a soft toothbrush.  It got some out but is it normal that the PCB feels a bit tacky/sticky after?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 02 May 2014, 08:45:47
Tried a little on one part of the PCB and a soft toothbrush.  It got some out but is it normal that the PCB feels a bit tacky/sticky after?
It should be dry and clean. If it is still sticky, the residue is still there.
You should apply stronger dis-solvent.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: infiniti on Fri, 02 May 2014, 08:51:29
Tried a little on one part of the PCB and a soft toothbrush.  It got some out but is it normal that the PCB feels a bit tacky/sticky after?
It should be dry and clean. If it is still sticky, the residue is still there.
You should apply stronger dis-solvent.

Alright.  I'll go grab some 99.9% at the lab supply.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 02 May 2014, 17:02:20
chemtronics makes a flux residue remover that is basically magic, but it's also like the nastiest stuff i've ever used. it's basically every organic solvent at once. you don't even have to scrub because it atomizes everything. just take care to spray in the bathtub or something with a huge amount of ventilation and then leave the room with the exhaust fan on for a while.

if i only have isopropyl, i definitely use at least 90%, and only in a pinch. preferably, one wants methyl alcohol or anhydrous 99.9% iso. wear gloves when using anhydrous methyl alcohols by the way. anyway, i usually alternate the scrub brush between a little bit of mild detergent with a little bit of warm water and then scrub with iso to break down big fat piles of residue and flux and then back and so on. i only bother doing this when i'm really really completely done with a board.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sat, 03 May 2014, 09:59:11
chemtronics makes a flux residue remover...

Link/Item# please! ^^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 03 May 2014, 11:34:57
whoops, the one i use is actually an MG chem product: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/solder/flux-removers/flux-remover-for-pc-boards-4140/

extremely volatile, don't advise having it shipped. MG chem products can be picked up at fry's or industrial chemical supply houses.

scrub with something like this: http://www.all-spec.com/products/610-110.html

used toothbrushes are fine too but can be ineffective sometimes, and a toothbrush costs about the same amount as a hog's hair brush, especially if you buy them in quantity.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 03 May 2014, 13:49:25
Here, check it out: To me it looks like it ripped off and there was some sort of adhesive holding it together.


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/J5oYNxG.jpg)

right, so what you're holding is an SS series soldapullt. it's a completely different animal from the DS017. the only sample i have from that series is the SS343, which is threaded like the SS011, SS350, and SS102. each of these have different sized barrels and different tips. the ss343 that i hae looks to be able the right diameter, but the tip looks too large. my guess is that you have a soldapullt successor SS model and that you need an LS36x replacement tip. you're going to need to save the barrel threads somehow, probably by turning the internal thread with a probe. the external thread is molded into the barrel on these designs, so if you kill the thread, you have to replace the barrel.

i generally would just recommend replacing the unit with a DS017 variant if you're not doing very fine pitched desoldering. the challenger and successor lines are made for space constrained and fine pitched situations. the ds017 has the maximum capacity, suction and so on.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: infiniti on Sun, 04 May 2014, 00:06:30
Thanks mkawa for the flux removal recommendations. I'll see what I can source locally.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 04 May 2014, 09:17:33
whoops, the one i use is actually an MG chem product: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/solder/flux-removers/flux-remover-for-pc-boards-4140/
extremely volatile, don't advise having it shipped. MG chem products can be picked up at fry's or industrial chemical supply houses.

Thanks! Just wanted to check out the ingredients...
Time to buy chem supplies and test: Ethyl-alcohol, Isopropanol, Ethyl-acetate :D

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 04 May 2014, 12:50:39
use them all at once and you've got the product i just linked to ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 04 May 2014, 12:50:48
don't forget the hexane!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Sun, 04 May 2014, 13:18:30
Pfft, just use chlorine trifluoride. Removes the flux instantly, along with the pcb, desk, hand, floor, house foundation, etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 04 May 2014, 15:15:59
I need some help about making a backlit keyboard - I got some advice from the Sprit Model 1 group buy thread but I figured I'd the rest of my questions here to stop derailing that thread, and because this is a thread intended for soldering help.

I wish to make a backlit keyboard using the Sprit 60% PCB. What size LEDs should I use, and what type of resistor? Is there any type of LED I should stay away from?

Also are there any issues in trying to create a backlit keyboard with the Sprit PCB that you guys may know of? (For ex. I think the bottom left Ctrl button on the Poker doesn't support backlighting?)

Also, am I correct in that regular diodes do not need resistor? What type of diode is typically used on a keyboard?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sun, 04 May 2014, 15:22:21
1. I wish to make a backlit keyboard using the Sprit 60% PCB. What size LEDs should I use, and what type of resistor? Is there any type of LED I should stay away from?
2. Also are there any issues in trying to create a backlit keyboard with the Sprit PCB that you guys may know of? (For ex. I think the bottom left Ctrl button on the Poker doesn't support backlighting?)

1. 2x3x4mm rectangular LEDs are recommended, 3mm round ones work as well but are not fully compatible with thicker keycaps.
2. Not that I know of.

I don't know much about diodes so can't answer your last question.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 04 May 2014, 15:27:38
I need some help about making a backlit keyboard - I got some advice from the Sprit Model 1 group buy thread but I figured I'd the rest of my questions here to stop derailing that thread, and because this is a thread intended for soldering help.

I wish to make a backlit keyboard using the Sprit 60% PCB. What size LEDs should I use, and what type of resistor? Is there any type of LED I should stay away from?

Also are there any issues in trying to create a backlit keyboard with the Sprit PCB that you guys may know of? (For ex. I think the bottom left Ctrl button on the Poker doesn't support backlighting?)

Also, am I correct in that regular diodes do not need resistor? What type of diode is typically used on a keyboard?
Just buy the leds from sprit, they are the correct ones and you get resistors with them.

You also get diodes for your keyboard from him, I am not 100% sure about round 2 but for round 1 you could either have him solder your diodes, or do it yourself.

The only reason the poker left windows key doesn't light up is because it can be used as caps lock.

On sprits keyboard, the caps lock and delete key do not light up unless you are using caps lock or num lock respectively. Not really sure how that is shocking though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 04 May 2014, 20:06:10
On sprits keyboard, the caps lock and delete key do not light up unless you are using caps lock or num lock respectively. Not really sure how that is shocking though.

Haha, that's hardly surprising at all :p

Thank you both  ^-^
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 04 May 2014, 20:11:49
On sprits keyboard, the caps lock and delete key do not light up unless you are using caps lock or num lock respectively. Not really sure how that is shocking though.

Haha, that's hardly surprising at all :p

Thank you both  ^-^
Hehe

Good luck! :D

(I will be more than happy to answer any more of your questions, I already built a KB from sprit)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 04 May 2014, 20:21:24
Hehe

Good luck! :D

(I will be more than happy to answer any more of your questions, I already built a KB from sprit)

Awesome, because I just encountered another simple question:
On the order form for LEDs, the question asks this
Quote
LED High Bright : 110pcs (with Resistors) = 10 USD - *Auto Multi- 7 Color LED 20pcs = 10USD

Does that mean 110 pieces [with resistors] is 10 USD for a standard LED, but the 7 color LED is 20 pieces for 10 USD?

What exactly is the Auto Multi- 7 color LED? Does that mean you can choose a color for it to be or something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sun, 04 May 2014, 20:27:25
Hehe

Good luck! :D

(I will be more than happy to answer any more of your questions, I already built a KB from sprit)

Awesome, because I just encountered another simple question:
On the order form for LEDs, the question asks this
Quote
LED High Bright : 110pcs (with Resistors) = 10 USD - *Auto Multi- 7 Color LED 20pcs = 10USD

Does that mean 110 pieces [with resistors] is 10 USD for a standard LED, but the 7 color LED is 20 pieces for 10 USD?

What exactly is the Auto Multi- 7 color LED? Does that mean you can choose a color for it to be or something?
Yes, $10 for 110 single color leds with resistors, or 20 multicolor for $10 I guess.

The multicolor led just cycles randomly between colors. You have no control over it.

Refer to this post:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33155.msg1296218#msg1296218
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 04 May 2014, 20:35:08
Holy crap I had no idea that existed  :eek:

That's pretty cool, although I'm trying to imagine a whole keyboard full of them and I'd imagine that might get crazy pretty fast :p

Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Sun, 04 May 2014, 20:42:37
got two issues:

issue #1: Spacebar doesn't work. Desoldered the key, saw that the pins were rusted, so I put in a new one. Still doesnt work and I see gunk surrounding the pads. Think previous owner must have spilled something. Gunk is pretty hard to get out

edit: going to put wires from spacebar to menu key and remap menu to spacebar
edit2: it worked! spacebar now works through AHK

issue #2: (different board) '" cap doesn't work. Looked at PCB, one of the pads on the PCB was physically lose from the PCB. Desoldered, ended up peeling off the pad. Solder won't flow accross the gap to the traces, what do?

a little update: deck is working, but some kkeyss are double pressing--just like that. Its using some pretty used up blacks, they're buttery sssmooth. should I desolder them with new ones or is this a controller issue?

also still need help on the 2nd bboard with the lifted pad
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Mon, 05 May 2014, 02:00:36
don't forget the hexane!

Nah, I will skip the hexane...
In difference to the 3 others it's ranked "toxic" as it can cause neuronal damage.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 05 May 2014, 09:09:47
got two issues:

issue #1: Spacebar doesn't work. Desoldered the key, saw that the pins were rusted, so I put in a new one. Still doesnt work and I see gunk surrounding the pads. Think previous owner must have spilled something. Gunk is pretty hard to get out

edit: going to put wires from spacebar to menu key and remap menu to spacebar
edit2: it worked! spacebar now works through AHK

issue #2: (different board) '" cap doesn't work. Looked at PCB, one of the pads on the PCB was physically lose from the PCB. Desoldered, ended up peeling off the pad. Solder won't flow accross the gap to the traces, what do?

a little update: deck is working, but some kkeyss are double pressing--just like that. Its using some pretty used up blacks, they're buttery sssmooth. should I desolder them with new ones or is this a controller issue?

also still need help on the 2nd bboard with the lifted pad

Try adjusting the debounce rate in your firmware to get rid of the double press of keys.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: stancato9 on Mon, 05 May 2014, 10:09:49
Here, check it out: To me it looks like it ripped off and there was some sort of adhesive holding it together.


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/J5oYNxG.jpg)

right, so what you're holding is an SS series soldapullt. it's a completely different animal from the DS017. the only sample i have from that series is the SS343, which is threaded like the SS011, SS350, and SS102. each of these have different sized barrels and different tips. the ss343 that i hae looks to be able the right diameter, but the tip looks too large. my guess is that you have a soldapullt successor SS model and that you need an LS36x replacement tip. you're going to need to save the barrel threads somehow, probably by turning the internal thread with a probe. the external thread is molded into the barrel on these designs, so if you kill the thread, you have to replace the barrel.

i generally would just recommend replacing the unit with a DS017 variant if you're not doing very fine pitched desoldering. the challenger and successor lines are made for space constrained and fine pitched situations. the ds017 has the maximum capacity, suction and so on.

Thanks mkawa! I will keep it in mind for the future but I picked up a replacement.

I asked this before with no answer so I'll ask it again.

On my Poker 2, the left windows key LED won't light up. I figure I can just use the LED pads from the free key beside the left shift.

I cut some LED leads and soldered them to the LED pads on the free key. When I make contact between and LED and the leads, it lights up.

If I solder the LED leads to the left windows key LED pads, the LED in the windows key switch won't light up.

What am I doing wrong?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 05 May 2014, 14:50:56
don't forget the hexane!

Nah, I will skip the hexane...
In difference to the 3 others it's ranked "toxic" as it can cause neuronal damage.
yes, sorry, that was a joke. please don't purchase or use hexane in a non-laboratory setting
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 05 May 2014, 16:25:25
don't forget the hexane!

Nah, I will skip the hexane...
In difference to the 3 others it's ranked "toxic" as it can cause neuronal damage.
yes, sorry, that was a joke. please don't purchase or use hexane in a non-laboratory setting

But that said, hexanes can be really useful if used properly!   :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Mon, 05 May 2014, 17:01:46
got two issues:

issue #1: Spacebar doesn't work. Desoldered the key, saw that the pins were rusted, so I put in a new one. Still doesnt work and I see gunk surrounding the pads. Think previous owner must have spilled something. Gunk is pretty hard to get out

edit: going to put wires from spacebar to menu key and remap menu to spacebar
edit2: it worked! spacebar now works through AHK

issue #2: (different board) '" cap doesn't work. Looked at PCB, one of the pads on the PCB was physically lose from the PCB. Desoldered, ended up peeling off the pad. Solder won't flow accross the gap to the traces, what do?

a little update: deck is working, but some kkeyss are double pressing--just like that. Its using some pretty used up blacks, they're buttery sssmooth. should I desolder them with new ones or is this a controller issue?

also still need help on the 2nd bboard with the lifted pad

Try adjusting the debounce rate in your firmware to get rid of the double press of keys.

Can't do that. its a deck legend with a non programable controller
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: karazi on Tue, 06 May 2014, 07:21:30
Did some online shopping at stanleysupplyservices.com (http://stanleysupplyservices.com) and I am pretty happy with my haul for my first keyswitch mod (rosewill -> blue to clear) and general supply hoard for my relatively new hobby:

DS017 DESOLDERING TOOL EDSYN 114-202 $17.40         
63/37-020-44-66-1 ROSIN WIRE SOLDER KESTER P 111-288 $27.50         
CW8200 ROSIN FLUX PEN CHEMTRONICS 408-447 $6.15         
CHEM WIK LITE BLUE CHEMTRONICS 25L 113-658 $16.41         
599B-02 TIP CLEANER HAKKO 447-719 $9.47
BRS-715.00 BURN AWAY FLUX BRUSH LARGE 468-995 $3.02

$80 subtotal, $13 (NY) tax+ship, $8 (10%) discount, $86 total shipped ground.  Ordered yesterday morning, shipped from MA to NY, will get here by tonight!  How did I do?

Ordered wayyyy too much solder but I simply could not find any .02" kester 44 between 1oz and 16oz on the internet, so I went for the 16oz (I shop at costco) since the price was right.  Also ordered a Soldapullt as well as desoldering braid, since I like the braid, and wanted to try the Soldapullt.  Will be using RadioShack's 70w soldering station which did fine by me for desoldering the rosewill with a braid.  I guess next on the list is some new Hakko tips as I only have the pointy one that came with it.  I see a lot on Amazon, any suggestions what tips I should have in my arsenal?

edit:
Got the package less than 24 hours later.  Clears installed.  Typing on them now, fantastic.  Already made the leaderboard on typeracer @ 151wpm :).  These are a lot different than browns, a lot harder to bottom-out, let you float a little bit more and bounce from one key to the next.  Very nice, I'm addicted, good thing I got all that solder :).  Once these break in I plan to do ergo-clear mod and lube, possibly sticker if I can find them somewhere.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 May 2014, 06:32:11
So, I could use some help... I have only a limited amount of soldering and electronics experience.

Last night I converted my Kingsaver from Matias Quiet switches to Blue ALPS, using a Leading Edge donor board. Everything was going well, but when I removed my Kingsaver's right arrow Matias switch, I yanked out a bunch of copper with it. Wasn't careful enough.

When I soldered in blues, all the switches worked except for the right arrow.  :-[

I took these pics to show what's going on. Pretty messy, because I tried reheating the joints to get the solder to reflow. This actually made the right arrow work intermittently, but when I applied even more heat, I actually lifted the southernmost trace in pic 2 (bottom of the pcb).

(http://i.imgur.com/vKYsoiR.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/EWuhVd5.jpg)

So the status quo is this ^ but with the bottom pad now lifted.  ^-^

Worse, I had one other switch pull out a bit of copper too, on the other pin, so I'm not even sure which hole suffered the problem.

Any suggestions on how to fix this, or what I need to bridge to get things working again?  This was so close to being a total success... argh.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 May 2014, 06:48:08
Just a thought -- logically, it seems that if I bridge the northern trace on the bottom of the pcb to the near side of the diode, and then, if necessary, scrape laminate off the top trace and bridge it to the top pad, I should circumvent any problems at the holes. Right?

Also, why are there 2 traces connecting the pad on the bottom to the diode? Can someone explain what is going on, electrically?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 08 May 2014, 11:37:39
yah, those are pretty messy. you're going to need to find a point of continuity on the back of the board and run a jumper wire (26ga to 30ga generally) to your switch there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 08 May 2014, 11:55:27
What I did when I rotated a switch 180 and drilled new holes through traces was to break the trace 100% and run a jumper from the previous pad on the trace.  This allowed me to work with the larger wire that I had on hand.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 08 May 2014, 21:24:36
Thanks guys. Fixed it with a matching red jumper wire  :thumb:

(http://i.imgur.com/Q96lVMW.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 09 May 2014, 09:10:13
 :thumb: looks great!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 19:24:50
Could I get some tips on how to desolder super duper fine, unleaded soldered points, if I don't have a hot air station/desoldering wick?   :-[

Here's a picture of 0.02" kester 44 right next to the joints: About as thick as the soldering spots themselves. Solder pads are probably even smaller, since they're ovular in shape.
(http://i.imgur.com/WjsZCDd.jpg)

I've only tried adding a bit of solder on the right USB 3.0 joint, but it appears that even 0.02" kester might be too thick...and has a high chance of sticking to the other joint.

Thanks in advance!


Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 09 May 2014, 19:37:01
what are the components on the other side? do you need them to work afterward?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 20:01:27
what are the components on the other side? do you need them to work afterward?

It's a flat USB 3.0 internal header that I'm desoldering. Wanted to sleeve them like sata cables... :p

So yes, I would like to not destroy the PCB in the process.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 09 May 2014, 20:23:06
Could I get some tips on how to desolder super duper fine, unleaded soldered points, if I don't have a hot air station/desoldering wick?   :-[

Here's a picture of 0.02" kester 44 right next to the joints: About as thick as the soldering spots themselves. Solder pads are probably even smaller, since they're ovular in shape.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WjsZCDd.jpg)


I've only tried adding a bit of solder on the right USB 3.0 joint, but it appears that even 0.02" kester might be too thick...and has a high chance of sticking to the other joint.

Thanks in advance!

Can you post a poc of then other side?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 09 May 2014, 20:28:32
what are the components on the other side? do you need them to work afterward?

It's a flat USB 3.0 internal header that I'm desoldering. Wanted to sleeve them like sata cables... :p

So yes, I would like to not destroy the PCB in the process.

oh the pcb will be fine. ICs and other delicate components will have magic smoke let out of them though. basically put the board in a metal vice and point a heat gun at it. ta-da, everything falls out of the board. clean up the solder pad by pad with a solder sucker. the obvious problem with the heat gun is that it destroys plastic and heat sensitive components.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zeal on Fri, 09 May 2014, 21:13:31
Could I get some tips on how to desolder super duper fine, unleaded soldered points, if I don't have a hot air station/desoldering wick?   :-[

Here's a picture of 0.02" kester 44 right next to the joints: About as thick as the soldering spots themselves. Solder pads are probably even smaller, since they're ovular in shape.
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/WjsZCDd.jpg)


I've only tried adding a bit of solder on the right USB 3.0 joint, but it appears that even 0.02" kester might be too thick...and has a high chance of sticking to the other joint.

Thanks in advance!

Can you post a poc of then other side?
(http://i.imgur.com/dcDiBi3.jpg)
Some tiny SMD components and such..

what are the components on the other side? do you need them to work afterward?

It's a flat USB 3.0 internal header that I'm desoldering. Wanted to sleeve them like sata cables... :p

So yes, I would like to not destroy the PCB in the process.

oh the pcb will be fine. ICs and other delicate components will have magic smoke let out of them though. basically put the board in a metal vice and point a heat gun at it. ta-da, everything falls out of the board. clean up the solder pad by pad with a solder sucker. the obvious problem with the heat gun is that it destroys plastic and heat sensitive components.

So...no way to desolder it? And if I were to try, it would heat up the sensitive ICs/SMD Resistors around it and make my room smell bad?  :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sat, 10 May 2014, 22:15:36
Looking from some advice from you pros...

I am using a Hakko FX-888D soldering station.  Below is an image of some of my extra tips.  The tip that is up a bit more than the others is the one that is currently on my iron.

[attachimg=1]

I have been doing some more precise soldering recently and I plan to change my tip to one of the smaller tips for this work.  I have two options for a smaller tip, a chisel or pencil tip.  I realize that I do not know the pros and cons of these tips, so I wanted to see if you guys had any feedback on the topic.

I know I should be looking for a tip that is about the same size as the combined size of the two pieces of work that I am soldering (or there abouts).  Other than that, I don't really have more knowledge to make an informed decision.  I am sure either would work, but I figure this is as good a time as any to learn something.  :P  Thx...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 11 May 2014, 03:14:01
if you don't know exactly what tip you need, then you just need a chisel of the appropriate size. big chisels for large power flow, small chisels for small power flow. heat transfer is a function of contact area and thermal conductivity at the joint. the easiest shape to get predictable contact out of will always be a chisel (sometimes called a spade). the three sizes you generally want to have is a ~1mm, a ~1.5mm and a large 3mm tip. the only other generally useful tip shape is the cup tip, which is just a chisel with a scoop out of one side. the cup holds solder for slide soldering. however, typically you're better off using solder paste and sliding your small chisel down the leads instead. cup tips for slide soldering are really only needed when doing huge TQFP or SOICs packages and lots of them. i would argue instead that if you have a ton of large SMT packages to solder, you should be using hot air anyway, as you will probably need to desolder at least one of those packages, and your 1mm tip is going to be pretty crap at getting one of those chips off without damaging anything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Sun, 11 May 2014, 03:41:42
Looking from some advice from you pros...

I am using a Hakko FX-888D soldering station.  Below is an image of some of my extra tips.  The tip that is up a bit more than the others is the one that is currently on my iron.

(Attachment Link)

I have been doing some more precise soldering recently and I plan to change my tip to one of the smaller tips for this work.  I have two options for a smaller tip, a chisel or pencil tip.  I realize that I do not know the pros and cons of these tips, so I wanted to see if you guys had any feedback on the topic.

I know I should be looking for a tip that is about the same size as the combined size of the two pieces of work that I am soldering (or there abouts).  Other than that, I don't really have more knowledge to make an informed decision.  I am sure either would work, but I figure this is as good a time as any to learn something.  :P  Thx...

I use a 2,4mm chisel tip for almost all through-hole soldering...
The hoof tips (left on your image) are good for SMD/drag soldering, never found a use for conical ones.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 11 May 2014, 15:34:36
I have a two questions:

1) Should I tin my tip before and after every soldering session? (How about just desoldering?) Is just heating up a kester 44 63/37 on the tip and then wiping it off after sufficient? (And do I have to worry about the timing before it oxidizes or something...? I heard this mentioned in a youtube video about tinning the tip but not from other sources)


2) Does anyone (perhaps mkawa can shed some light on this?) know how to assemble the stand for the Geekhack solder spool? I can't for the life of me figure out how to put three bits of plastic together (I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time on this).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sun, 11 May 2014, 15:46:16
I have a two questions:

1) Should I tin my tip before and after every soldering session? (How about just desoldering?) Is just heating up a kester 44 63/37 on the tip and then wiping it off after sufficient? (And do I have to worry about the timing before it oxidizes or something...? I heard this mentioned in a youtube video about tinning the tip but not from other sources)


2) Does anyone (perhaps mkawa can shed some light on this?) know how to assemble the stand for the Geekhack solder spool? I can't for the life of me figure out how to put three bits of plastic together (I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time on this).

Tin before and after (and during if your iron sits for like 15 minutes without you using it and it's on).

Don't wipe off all the solder or you are not tinning.

Tinning basically means that you totally coat the tip with a thin layer of solder. This reduces oxidation of the tip itself because only the solder is exposed to the air.

I use a brass sponge when I work and it is great for leaving a nice layer of solder on the tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 11 May 2014, 15:55:16
I use a brass sponge when I work and it is great for leaving a nice layer of solder on the tip.

What is the general opinion about these? I looked around online and while most people say they're convenient, some say that they're a waste of money in that sponges do the job just fine. How long do these last for?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sun, 11 May 2014, 16:07:51
I use a brass sponge when I work and it is great for leaving a nice layer of solder on the tip.

What is the general opinion about these? I looked around online and while most people say they're convenient, some say that they're a waste of money in that sponges do the job just fine. How long do these last for?

I HATE the water sponges. For me brass is the only option.

Water sponges give tip shock when you clean the tip which will reduce its lifespan. Also, I find that the solder clumps and oxidizes on the tip when using these.

The brass sponge always leaves my tip in a perfect state. I don't have to think at all, just poke a couple times and it's good.

I only use a brass sponge and I wouldn't do it any other way. This is my opinion obviously.

They should last forever. I have never had to change mine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Sun, 11 May 2014, 18:08:30
2) Does anyone (perhaps mkawa can shed some light on this?) know how to assemble the stand for the Geekhack solder spool? I can't for the life of me figure out how to put three bits of plastic together (I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time on this).
If you are asking about what I think you are, don't feel bad, I too spent an embarrassing amount of time assembling the soldering kit  :)) Check out the this thread for Mkawa's guidance (I'll paste a little here for reference): http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57970.msg1324874#msg1324874 - I'm sure you could PM him for further clarification.

yes yes!

the spool and soldapullt holder is a new addition, and actually works best if the spindle on it is glued to the base. if i weren't out of bases, i would make a quick video on how to glue them together. in the meantime, to secure the top piece to the spindle a bit better, insert the soldapullt into the big column in the top. the tip will lock into the spindle and secure it.

actually, gluing the spindle into the bottom piece is pretty straightforward. you can do it with acetone or standard cyanacrolate (crazy glue). for acetone (nail polish remover will work fine), brush or drop some acetone into the hold in the base, then insert the spindle. hold it there, straight up for about 15 minutes. it will glue in and stay that way. with cyanacrolate, it will set in about 30s to 1 minute, otherwise it's the same deal.

i don't recommend gluing the top piece to the spindle, as then you can't replace the solder spool if needed.

(http://i.imgur.com/92zT6xa.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Sun, 11 May 2014, 18:27:47
Ah, thanks! I did end up on that configuration last night but couldn't figure out what the top piece was for for the life of me so I just gave up and put it away.

i don't recommend gluing the top piece to the spindle, as then you can't replace the solder spool if needed.

How would you be able to replace the solder spool with the spindle glued to the base? Regardless of if the top piece is glued to the spindle, It seems like the spindle restricts the solder spool from being removed.

To my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong), red thing = solder spool, blue thing = spindle, big white thing = base, big but slightly smaller white thing = top piece.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 12 May 2014, 13:43:48
I use a brass sponge when I work and it is great for leaving a nice layer of solder on the tip.

What is the general opinion about these? I looked around online and while most people say they're convenient, some say that they're a waste of money in that sponges do the job just fine. How long do these last for?

I HATE the water sponges. For me brass is the only option.

Water sponges give tip shock when you clean the tip which will reduce its lifespan. Also, I find that the solder clumps and oxidizes on the tip when using these.

The brass sponge always leaves my tip in a perfect state. I don't have to think at all, just poke a couple times and it's good.

I only use a brass sponge and I wouldn't do it any other way. This is my opinion obviously.

They should last forever. I have never had to change mine.

thermal shock on the tip is a non-issue with a high quality large-heater iron and high quality copper tips. if the heater can push enough power out quickly enough, the tip will actually not experience much if any thermal delta. if you think about it, you're just touching your tip to something that's at room temperature. but that's what you're constantly doing when you solder. the joint starts at room temperature, you thermally connect the tip to it, and bam. the specific heat capacity of water is larger than most metals, but the tip only contacts a small film of it, and as soon as that water hits vapor temp it phase changes away. in short, thermal shock for water cleaning of tips is highly overstated. however, sponges have basically unlimited debridement; that is, you can wipe as much crap and excess solder off of them as you want. you don't need more flux to pull crap off because the combination of nucleation of boiling water and the sponge will pull pretty much anything off of your tip.

and this highlights the two problems with brass tips. they don't last very long, and they're not very good at absorbing excess solder on your tip. the reasons are as above. the brass sponge relies on an animal-fat-based flux on the sponge surfaces, because the brass alone is non-abrasive to the tip. if a material like steel was used that was harder than the tip material, you would significantly wear away at the tip just from the mechanical scraping action. so they use soft brass and flux it. however, as we all know, flux burns away. so your tip has a lifetime only as long as it carries flux. once the flux is gone it will become very near useless. this is why instructions for using brass sponges usually tell you to push your tip in for like a fraction of a second, twist and pull. this often won't get the crap off of your tip, because you need more scraping action, so you repeat, and each time you put your tip in you burn more of the limited flux off. the second issue is that the excess solder you're pulling off your tip only falls through the brass as long as there is flux on the brass. as soon as it hits some unfluxed brass, it will stick to the brass (that is, not flow, which is where the name flux for deoxidizing compounds comes from..). so effectively, as you use your brass sponge, you're filling it full of excess solder, and it will get to the point where it's a ball of tinned brass and not fluxed brass. at that point your only option is really to toss it out, as you're not going to be able to clean your tip very well on it.

sponges and water, however, are indescribably cheap (heck, i just cut up kitchen sponges if i don't have something else around). have worked for cleaning tips for a half decade, and with a properly provisioned iron, will basically have no negative effect on the iron itself, and when your sponge is so gross that even soap and water can't recover it, sponges are biodegradable. brass strips with lead and tin all over them are not.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 12 May 2014, 14:54:14
I use a brass sponge when I work and it is great for leaving a nice layer of solder on the tip.

What is the general opinion about these? I looked around online and while most people say they're convenient, some say that they're a waste of money in that sponges do the job just fine. How long do these last for?

I HATE the water sponges. For me brass is the only option.

Water sponges give tip shock when you clean the tip which will reduce its lifespan. Also, I find that the solder clumps and oxidizes on the tip when using these.

The brass sponge always leaves my tip in a perfect state. I don't have to think at all, just poke a couple times and it's good.

I only use a brass sponge and I wouldn't do it any other way. This is my opinion obviously.

They should last forever. I have never had to change mine.

thermal shock on the tip is a non-issue with a high quality large-heater iron and high quality copper tips. if the heater can push enough power out quickly enough, the tip will actually not experience much if any thermal delta. if you think about it, you're just touching your tip to something that's at room temperature. but that's what you're constantly doing when you solder. the joint starts at room temperature, you thermally connect the tip to it, and bam. the specific heat capacity of water is larger than most metals, but the tip only contacts a small film of it, and as soon as that water hits vapor temp it phase changes away. in short, thermal shock for water cleaning of tips is highly overstated. however, sponges have basically unlimited debridement; that is, you can wipe as much crap and excess solder off of them as you want. you don't need more flux to pull crap off because the combination of nucleation of boiling water and the sponge will pull pretty much anything off of your tip.

and this highlights the two problems with brass tips. they don't last very long, and they're not very good at absorbing excess solder on your tip. the reasons are as above. the brass sponge relies on an animal-fat-based flux on the sponge surfaces, because the brass alone is non-abrasive to the tip. if a material like steel was used that was harder than the tip material, you would significantly wear away at the tip just from the mechanical scraping action. so they use soft brass and flux it. however, as we all know, flux burns away. so your tip has a lifetime only as long as it carries flux. once the flux is gone it will become very near useless. this is why instructions for using brass sponges usually tell you to push your tip in for like a fraction of a second, twist and pull. this often won't get the crap off of your tip, because you need more scraping action, so you repeat, and each time you put your tip in you burn more of the limited flux off. the second issue is that the excess solder you're pulling off your tip only falls through the brass as long as there is flux on the brass. as soon as it hits some unfluxed brass, it will stick to the brass (that is, not flow, which is where the name flux for deoxidizing compounds comes from..). so effectively, as you use your brass sponge, you're filling it full of excess solder, and it will get to the point where it's a ball of tinned brass and not fluxed brass. at that point your only option is really to toss it out, as you're not going to be able to clean your tip very well on it.

sponges and water, however, are indescribably cheap (heck, i just cut up kitchen sponges if i don't have something else around). have worked for cleaning tips for a half decade, and with a properly provisioned iron, will basically have no negative effect on the iron itself, and when your sponge is so gross that even soap and water can't recover it, sponges are biodegradable. brass strips with lead and tin all over them are not.

This is not the experience I have had.  I do have to dump the solder filings out of the bottom of the container I have my sponge in and maybe bang the brass sponge a couple times to get some more out, but I do not get build up of solder on the sponge.

You are right that the sponge and water takes off more, but that is a problem in my eyes.  It removes the tinning from the tip as well, so it exposes the tip to air.  The brass sponge removes all the excess solder and leaves the tip perfectly tinned.

I respect your opinion, but I personally prefer a brass sponge...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 12 May 2014, 15:02:37
water shouldn't remove the tin on your tip. either you're running at a suboptimal temp, not using enough flux (Cu2O will not bond to Sn), or some combination of the above. at a certain point, nothing can get the crap off of your tip and you actually need to use a brass or steel brush to clean it up. you should never have to get to that point. tip your tip often and when it's sitting, cover it with a ton of solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Mon, 12 May 2014, 16:28:54
thermal shock on the tip is a non-issue with a high quality large-heater iron and high quality copper tips. if the heater can push enough power out quickly enough, the tip will actually not experience much if any thermal delta.

So low quality heaters will not sustain the temperature as well? (And simply turning up the temperature wouldn't do anything because it's the relative temperatures of the water and the tip that causes any supposed thermal shock?)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 13 May 2014, 08:06:50
thermal stresses are relatively simple. whenever there are large very quick changes in tip temperature, you will get thermal stress in the bulk material of the tip and in the iron heater. the stress is a mechanical stress from thermal expansion and contraction.

the larger the heater, the more instantaneous power it can flow to the tip. to avoid rapid temperature changes, you need power to reach the tip very quickly. you don't need a huge amount of it, but you need it very quickly when the tip is presented with a thermal load. small heaters hold less energy, and typically have smaller surface areas to transfer that energy to the tip (although the energy reservoir is more important, as there is generally not a lot of impedance due to lack of contact area in a good heater design).

the heater is by far the most expensive part of an iron, as it is a non-trivial ceramic shape that should be precisely formed for predictable thermal envelopes (this is one of the problems with metcal tip and heater cartridges, as you're buying a new heater with every tip).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 13 May 2014, 08:23:47
Just to add to swill's and mkawa's conversation: I've been liking the brass sponge more than the water/sponge I've used in the past. I noticed when I first was learning to solder, that the thermal shock would kill the tips pretty quickly. We were using Weller WES51s and we seem to run through tips pretty regularly (new tip every week or two). And I found I had to tip the tip much more often. The brass sponge has me tinning less and my tip is going strong after a year of intermittent usage.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MythicalWagyu on Thu, 15 May 2014, 20:09:35
Finally got a chance to use my learn to solder kit today! The Soldapult is pretty damn slick, makes desoldering fast. Couldn't make the 3D printed iron stand work for me; tried zip-tying a heavy weight to the bottom but the cord on the iron is just too much, pushes the hot iron into the side of the stand, so the helping hands will do for now.
(http://i.imgur.com/G47HPZ5.jpg)

The only pins I had trouble with were bent flush with the PCB... I think I lifted a pad or two off the trace trying to get them off the PCB but not too concerned since the intent is to wire up a Teensy to this. Now I'm off to look for diodes and ribbon cable!
(http://i.imgur.com/xpHrZRh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ha1sCmI.jpg)
(all desoldered, checking switches for continuity, everything seems to be in order)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 15 May 2014, 20:19:48
you can push the soldapullt down a bit more until it locks in

the extension cord included helps quite a bit in getting the big-fat-iron-cord to behave. if you've already filled the basin with water and used the grippy bumpons and it's still not staying up, pull out all the stops and use some double sided tape to tack it to your desk. yes, the cord is a monster, but you just have to tell it who's boss and it'll behave.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 15 May 2014, 20:22:34
Just to add to swill's and mkawa's conversation: I've been liking the brass sponge more than the water/sponge I've used in the past. I noticed when I first was learning to solder, that the thermal shock would kill the tips pretty quickly. We were using Weller WES51s and we seem to run through tips pretty regularly (new tip every week or two). And I found I had to tip the tip much more often. The brass sponge has me tinning less and my tip is going strong after a year of intermittent usage.
a week or two?!?! that's insane. what would happen to the tip?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kurplop on Fri, 16 May 2014, 15:58:46
I had an old range hood sitting around for years and decided to make an air cleaner for my solder station out of it.[attach=1]  [attach=2]
It already had a carbon filter in it. I cut the width down to 21" from 30" and bent the nose 90 degrees to bring the controls to the front when I stood it up. Variable speed too!

I personally think we have overreacted to many of the 'dangers' that our predecessors somehow survived. It's hard to go a day in California without seeing a prop65 label, warning that a product you are about to use will likely kill you. The problem is that it is like the boy who cried wolf; after a while he is ignored and when a genuine danger arises nobody pays attention.

Having said that I'm still looking forward to soldering in fresh air.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: physicsmajor on Fri, 16 May 2014, 18:45:05
So unfortunate the original Hakko FX-888 got discontinued in favor of the digital version. I got one of the last analog types and love it, but the digital is not as intuitive or quick to use.

Performs equally well, it's an ergonomic thing. But aren't we all about ergonomic things around here?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 17 May 2014, 13:00:59
public service announcement:

cptbadass sent me these pictures of his soldering pencil when he was having trouble desoldering some joints:

(http://i.imgur.com/Kx7SSXZ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/twSyQAX.jpg)

what you're looking at is a heavily oxidized pencil and tip. metal oxides have really poor thermal conductivity and will refuse to be tinned with solder. however, this is very easily fixable.

the solution is:

SCRUB THE CRAP OUT OF IT. use something hard. sandpaper works. baking soda slurry works. steel or brass brushes work (often used for painting; cheap at the hardware store). steel wool works. heck, sand slurrys work too.

bottom line: expose the underlying metal. the tip will either be made with tin (not the highest quality, but heck, it works), or copper (more typical). the shaft and the rear bit of the tip will be zinc plated steel. that won't take solder, but it will clean up nicely. KEEP YOUR IRON CLEAN. this is the key to maintaining thermal efficiency. without thermal efficiency, your iron is going to very slowly heat the workpiece, resulting in either the workpiece not getting hot enough to take solder, or getting too hot and burning up.

PROTIP: scrubbing a hot iron is a little bit easier than scrubbing a cold iron, as you can cover your brush with flux, and use the wetting action of the flux (really what's happening is that the flux is corrosive and helps chemically get rid of the oxide layer while your brush mechanically debrides the oxide layer). then, once your tip is clean, IMMEDIATELY tin it by melting a crapton of solder on it. keep the tip over something that won't burn if hot solder drops on it. at the end of this process you should have a clean iron and a shiny tinned tip.

happy soldering!!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sun, 18 May 2014, 20:50:14
'Chemical paste' works magically well for me and saved precious tips of my vintage Weller several times.
Spare tips are no long available for my model, so situation is critical :D

http://www.hakko.com/english/maintenance/topic_kotesaki.html#case1

I don't use sandpaper, just cleaning wire and sponge is enough to clean tip before dunking it into chemical past. I use Hakko FS-100 but other brands will work same way.

And Weller video.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 18 May 2014, 21:19:20
Well between the last two nights I swapped out the switches in my keyboard for lubed ghost blacks.  The feel insanely smooth.  But the w and the 6 in the number row didn't work at all.  Tore it apart a couple minutes ago and apparently I forgot to solder the pads.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 19 May 2014, 10:56:36
'Chemical paste' works magically well for me and saved precious tips of my vintage Weller several times.
Spare tips are no long available for my model, so situation is critical :D

http://www.hakko.com/english/maintenance/topic_kotesaki.html#case1

I don't use sandpaper, just cleaning wire and sponge is enough to clean tip before dunking it into chemical past. I use Hakko FS-100 but other brands will work same way.

And Weller video.
tip cleaning paste is just very corrosive flux.

cleaning wire is about the same as a brass brush. but when you have really bad oxidization like the picture above, just attack it with whatever abrasive you have available.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Mon, 19 May 2014, 21:29:56
today....i think i learned the hard way about how what mkawa meant about surface area.

using a smaller tip meant that I had to leave it on there for ALOT longer than before in order to desolder properly.  took me half an hour before I realized what I was goofing up :(


also question: what wire do you get for hand-wiring a board?  do you need to buy something that says 'tinned'?  thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 20 May 2014, 15:18:47
i'd suggest something like 18-22g solid core, tinned without insulation if possible. it's pretty rare to find that stuff though, so the other option is magnet wire. it has an acrylic insulation that you just melt through to make an electrical connection. magnet wire is not tinned, so you'll have to flux it like any other wire.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:38:18
I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:40:34
yes, but it's harder to work with
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 20 May 2014, 16:42:58
public service announcement:

cptbadass sent me these pictures of his soldering pencil when he was having trouble desoldering some joints:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Kx7SSXZ.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/twSyQAX.jpg)


what you're looking at is a heavily oxidized pencil and tip. metal oxides have really poor thermal conductivity and will refuse to be tinned with solder. however, this is very easily fixable.

the solution is:

SCRUB THE CRAP OUT OF IT. use something hard. sandpaper works. baking soda slurry works. steel or brass brushes work (often used for painting; cheap at the hardware store). steel wool works. heck, sand slurrys work too.

bottom line: expose the underlying metal. the tip will either be made with tin (not the highest quality, but heck, it works), or copper (more typical). the shaft and the rear bit of the tip will be zinc plated steel. that won't take solder, but it will clean up nicely. KEEP YOUR IRON CLEAN. this is the key to maintaining thermal efficiency. without thermal efficiency, your iron is going to very slowly heat the workpiece, resulting in either the workpiece not getting hot enough to take solder, or getting too hot and burning up.

PROTIP: scrubbing a hot iron is a little bit easier than scrubbing a cold iron, as you can cover your brush with flux, and use the wetting action of the flux (really what's happening is that the flux is corrosive and helps chemically get rid of the oxide layer while your brush mechanically debrides the oxide layer). then, once your tip is clean, IMMEDIATELY tin it by melting a crapton of solder on it. keep the tip over something that won't burn if hot solder drops on it. at the end of this process you should have a clean iron and a shiny tinned tip.

happy soldering!!

Even after I spent 2 hours cleaning it with a brass wire brush and a baking solda slurry, I couldn't melt that damn joint. I ended up removing what I could, then snipping the switch leg until it lay flush to the pcb. Then I cranked my 808 way up and just sucked it out like that.

Also, now everyone will know I'm terrible at soldering :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Tue, 20 May 2014, 17:37:28
i'd suggest something like 18-22g solid core, tinned without insulation if possible. it's pretty rare to find that stuff though, so the other option is magnet wire. it has an acrylic insulation that you just melt through to make an electrical connection. magnet wire is not tinned, so you'll have to flux it like any other wire.

thanks!

so it sounds like when using kester 44 (the r2 kit I got from you), that it doesn't matter if the wire is tinned or not.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 20 May 2014, 19:04:34
yah, not really. if the copper is heavily oxidized, use a wire brush on it first. this goes for all oxidized metals, however.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 20 May 2014, 21:11:20
I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about (http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=13M3059&storeId=10196) that I bought on element14 (newark)...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: James35 on Wed, 21 May 2014, 04:03:28
Best bang for the buck: Hacko FX888.  It's a dumb, but brute force of an iron for under $100.
Best soldering station is JCB Soldering Stations (http://www.jbctools.com/) - $490. If you watch this video, be prepared to wipe up your drool.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Wed, 21 May 2014, 15:50:11
wow.  that tip changing feature looks baller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: James35 on Wed, 21 May 2014, 16:44:36
Yeah, there are so many bad ass features on the JBC's.  I would love to splurge for one someday.  It's not like soldering will get outdated.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zeal on Wed, 21 May 2014, 18:28:43
Yeah, there are so many bad ass features on the JBC's.  I would love to splurge for one someday.  It's not like soldering will get outdated.

Are those tips being held in with a magnet/indents inside? Didn't look like it required much force to switch the tips.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: James35 on Wed, 21 May 2014, 19:14:31
I don't know.  I think it's a press fit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 22 May 2014, 02:43:37
I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about (http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=13M3059&storeId=10196) that I bought on element14 (newark)...
yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 22 May 2014, 05:06:29
I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about (http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=13M3059&storeId=10196) that I bought on element14 (newark)...
yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

Can you put that in more layman's terms? :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Fire Brand on Thu, 22 May 2014, 12:01:50
Hello just wanted a little help and I thought this may be the best place to ask, although I have done things before I wasn't sure on this, basically I had a KBT Pure that the 1 key would not work or very intermittently after changing the switch multiple times today, I finally found someone had before suggested bridging the switch with the next switch, which is the number 2 after doing this the 1 switch is now pressing and registering correctly, should I leave this with the bridge in place or would it be best to remove as it could cause other issues, my main concern is that it could effect the board and damage it more, sorry for the picture below its one I made to try show what I have done as I don't wish to take the pure apart again unless needed.

(http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j350/fire_brand15/PurePCB.png) (http://s1081.photobucket.com/user/fire_brand15/media/PurePCB.png.html)
the bridge is a wire isolated between point A and B
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 22 May 2014, 13:38:03
I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about (http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=13M3059&storeId=10196) that I bought on element14 (newark)...
yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

Can you put that in more layman's terms? :)
run a single long wire across the each matrix row and column, then modify the wire as necessary to get your diodes in. don't try to wire everything point to point.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tarzan on Thu, 22 May 2014, 14:05:13
I bought a 21g or 20g (I think, depending on which gauge measure you use) solid core tinned and uninsulated wire from element14 (newark) for relatively cheap. I will link it when I get to a computer.

I would expect that insulated wire would probably be easier to not short when hand wiring though. Wouldn't it?

Here is the wire I was talking about (http://canada.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=15003&langId=1&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=13M3059&storeId=10196) that I bought on element14 (newark)...
yah, that should work. just remember not to treat it like hookup wire. it's more like a bus bar.

Can you put that in more layman's terms? :)
run a single long wire across the each matrix row and column, then modify the wire as necessary to get your diodes in. don't try to wire everything point to point.

IIRC, one hardwired keyboard project I saw pictures of took this approach, but only for the rows.  Rows were all wired to thick straight conductor material, columns were wired using diodes, as it was easier to guide the wire around/under each "bus bar" to avoid shorts.  (I'll see if I can find the thread with these images...)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 23 May 2014, 10:43:52
Don't scrub away too harshly on a soldering iron tip. You don't want to go through the plating on it. If you get down to the copper inside it will eat away very quickly. I don't know if the prognosis is as bad with lead solder, but I hollowed out a tip very far soldering just one 40% board. Back in 9th grade we always filed down our tips to clean and sharpen them, but I'm pretty sure we used leaded solder, and the tips may have been a different material altogether as well.

I use a brass bristle brush and a tip tinner. For bad cases I also have a sort of grinding stone from Weller that eat away corrosion quickly. I suppose it's hardness has been chosen not to damage the tips too badly..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 23 May 2014, 23:59:13
if your oxide layer is that bad, the tin plating is not doing very well and probably all oxide anyway. if you end up in this situation often, consider switching to an sn63/pb37/cu1 (1% copper) soldering until you're better able to manage your temperatures and tinning habits to keep your tips in good shape.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asdfjkl36 on Sun, 25 May 2014, 05:31:15
Nvm. Problem solved.  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaotikb on Sun, 25 May 2014, 08:11:44
I just ordered the Hakko 888d. I was using a cheapo 10 dollar iron before.

https://solarbotics.com/product/44162/ (https://solarbotics.com/product/44162/)

Will see how it works out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Thu, 29 May 2014, 12:47:12
I just wanted to check back and say that the hakko 808 is worth every f^&*ing penny.
Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Fri, 30 May 2014, 17:12:09
just out of curiosity, is it normal for there to be splattering while soldering?

when I start making a new joint, little tiny balls of mildly hot solder/flux start shooting up to 2-3in away from the joint.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kaotikb on Fri, 30 May 2014, 17:45:42
Maybe iron is not hot enough?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 30 May 2014, 20:00:59
Maybe iron is not hot enough?

Or too hot?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Fri, 30 May 2014, 20:06:38
I was thinking too hot.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 30 May 2014, 20:47:11
just out of curiosity, is it normal for there to be splattering while soldering?

when I start making a new joint, little tiny balls of mildly hot solder/flux start shooting up to 2-3in away from the joint.


splattering can definitely happen, but it shouldn't always be happening. it generally indicates either an issue with heat, your technique, or the solder.

for temperature, if you're using a temperature controlled iron, remember that you want 350C for leaded solder and 425-450C for lead-free solder. if you're not using a temperature controlled iron, try wiping your tip down and tinning it more often, so that tip temperatures peak less. some out-of-date solders can splatter because water has migrated into the flux core, and when it vaporizes, there's a bit of a pop as the energy releases.

however, most likely, from what you're describing, it's probably technique. to make a standard joint, take your clean tinned tip and apply a little bit of solder to it, just enough to make contact with your joint substrates. think of this as a bridge for heat (because that's what it is -- it's a thermal junction between the tip and your workpiece). now, hold your iron up to the desired joint material with the heat bridge touching _both_ parts of the joint. now you can start poking _the joint_, NOT your iron, with solder. when solder flows or wets across both parts of the joint, such that they're pretty clearly electrically bonded, remove your iron and solder. let the joint cool without disturbing it. you should now have a shiny new joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nereme on Sat, 31 May 2014, 11:31:00
Got myself a Soldering Iron today as my S key broke last night and am happily typing after fixing my Board and I am really happy

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/48w-lcd-display-solder-station-n16ch

Thats the Iron I got. Thought for the money it was probably the best I could easily get.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:29:23
thanks for the soldering tips guys! 

I'm going to do it the way mkawa says to do it and I'll see what happens.

learning lots :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 02 June 2014, 20:53:33
X-post...  A bit of a soldering discussion started in my build log.  I learned some tricks regarding cylindrical SMD diodes that the followers of this thread may be interested in, so here it is: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58969.msg1352424#msg1352424
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Fri, 06 June 2014, 01:35:07
I am planning on purchasing a GON NerD TKL (http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/pcbs/60-nerd-tkl-by-gon.html#/6_stabilizers-no_i_will_get_them_myself/7_optional_soldering-no_i_will_do_it_myself) but I have a few questions about building this keyboard before I start and order. What other components besides switches/case+plate/keycaps do I need if I want a fully backlit board? (I believe this order comes with PCB, USB connector, and side LEDs).

Also, does anyone have any experience with programming this keyboard and programming backlighting/custom layouts or anything? I imagine I may need help with that later  :-[

Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Fri, 06 June 2014, 18:46:05
From gons site...
Hardware MACRO(Realtime Macro without Software / Macro Recording with Dedicated Software(Software to be released in a few months.


The phantom has been out for quite a while now and is open sourse with support from tmk firmware project and the easyavr projects.
Sorry but I do not know much about the nerd yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Wed, 11 June 2014, 13:24:06
Hi all. I'm currently teaching myself to solder while waiting for an Ergodox kit to arrive. I have a pair of questions about work surfaces and tools.

First, regarding antistatic mats. I've noticed that they cost anywhere from $15 for cheap ones to $60-$70 for (presumably) nicer ones. Are the most expensive ones worth it? One of the things the more expensive ones add is heat resistance, which seems like it may be relevant when soldering.

Here's an example of a cheaper one: http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RTK-ASM-Anti-Static-Mat/dp/B004N96WQ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402510323&sr=8-1&keywords=anti+static+mat (http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-RTK-ASM-Anti-Static-Mat/dp/B004N96WQ0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402510323&sr=8-1&keywords=anti+static+mat)
And a more expensive one: http://www.amazon.com/Bertech-Static-Temperature-Rubber-Grounding/dp/B00HFQPUA2/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1402510323&sr=8-15&keywords=anti+static+mat

My second question is regarding vices. In my first soldering experiment I wished I had something to hold the PCB so I'm pretty sure I want one. I'm looking at the Panavise 301 or 396. Would you recommend one or the other? The 301 seemed like it might be too small but they also seem popular so I may be misunderstanding how much room I'll need.

Thanks! I've already learned a ton from this thread.

By the way, the Ergodox will almost certainly not be my last/only soldering project, so I'm willing to spend a bit more to get the right setup in place.

- jbm
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 12 June 2014, 17:11:47
the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 12 June 2014, 17:17:45
the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 12 June 2014, 23:41:34
i believe swill and i are the only ones with melvang's stem and crossbar. it's pretty darned sweet to say the least. i suffered through the panavise stem for far too long.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Fri, 13 June 2014, 15:05:51
the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

Thanks mkawa and swill. That looks like a nice setup indeed. I'd somehow missed the 316 altogether!

I noticed melvang has an artisnal services thread - I'll get in touch and see if I can get my hands on something similar.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Mon, 16 June 2014, 22:46:40
I just wanted to check back and say that the hakko 808 is worth every f^&*ing penny.
Thanks!

Hey guys. I'v been bringing my WASD v2 to work and keeping my HHKB at home. The browns in the WASD are too light for my tastes and lead to a lot of typos. I would have prefered to get clears strait out of the gate but it was hard to find a keyboard with them. I could get another topre (realforce) since I like them, but I am thinking about keeping an MX board since variety is the spice of life. Anyways, since I have been doing a bit of soldering recently I was thinking about spending $50 and picking up some keys for a switch mod.

Through hole soldering is fairly easy and strait forward so I have no issue with it. It's desoldering that I don't have much experience with. I'v used some wick to clean up a pin or two but it really don't seem like a good idea for the whole board. That hakko 808 looks like an absolutely magical device but I don't know if I want to shell out $200 just for this one mod. Geekhackers.org has a cheap $15 soldapolt which would work but it seems a little annoying to pump it 200+ times - I guess it's better than nothing. Any advice for desoldering a lot of through hole pins to swap out a TKL keyboard?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 17 June 2014, 00:15:48
The $15 RadioShack desoldering iron is decent if you have a big desoldering project, but it takes forever to warm up and you have to change the tips often as they are easily damaged/worn. I killed one after desoldering a single keyboard -- that said, it was much easier than a sucker.

I actually ordered a Hakko 808 this weekend.  Definitely looking forward to it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 June 2014, 00:42:58
actually, someone else made this mistake recently. the 15$ line item is a soldapullt REBUILD kit, not a full soldapullt unit. However, I do have two more blue complete krytox-powered DS017GH soldapullts for 20$/ea. from there on, every soldapullt with be a black krytox-powered DS017LSGH. the pricing from the blue units won't change much (a couple dollars more than the non-clearance DS017GH price of 30$, that's about it).

i've definitely desoldered some pretty crazy stuff (8ga stranded wire? yep!) with DS017 models. and yes, i also have an 808. the thing about the 808 that's great is that you can completely desolder a through-hole board in minutes. the not so great thing is that you can't desolder SMT pads. it will pull the pads off. the other nasty thing about it is that you can completely clog the nozzle/tip, especially when desoldering lead-free joints, and a new tip is like 15$. it's possible to do even worse too. let a post-filter sit for too long in the unit and you will destroy the vacuum pump. it's powerful, but naturally is fussier than a plastic pump.

what i like about the soldapullt most is that it's always ready to pull solder off of anything. no heatup time. no plugging things in or finding the power switch (i've hacked a power switch onto mine and actually upgraded it to an 80w element, and i'm still to impatient to use it most of hte time). the soldapullt is also exceptionally durable. you can pull SO MUCH CRAP into a soldapullt before it even starts complaining, and then you basically just dump it out, wipe the o-ring down, run some water through it and it'll do another thousand joints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 17 June 2014, 03:15:03
the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

I'm pretty sure you and mkawa are not the only ones who like Melvang setup. There will be more. The crossbar and and stem look amazing.  :thumb:
I really like the crossbar. In Vietnam, the best thing I can find is the square stainless steel 10x10cm [attachimg=1]
Maybe you can order Melvang another crossbar with the length 66cm (~26inch) to hold 104 keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Tue, 17 June 2014, 08:24:08
The $15 RadioShack desoldering iron is decent if you have a big desoldering project

This? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731. I have a RadioShack by my house so it would be easy to pick one up. $15 isn't too bad for the added help even of it just lasts for one bog desoldering project.

Ohh and quick question. What do you use to clean up flux residue? Rubbing alcohol?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 June 2014, 09:57:49
the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

I'm pretty sure you and mkawa are not the only ones who like Melvang setup. There will be more. The crossbar and and stem look amazing.  :thumb:
I really like the crossbar. In Vietnam, the best thing I can find is the square stainless steel 10x10cm (Attachment Link)
Maybe you can order Melvang another crossbar with the length 66cm (~26inch) to hold 104 keyboard.
melvang just let me know that he's done with another 5 18" units, stem and crossbar. they're going to go up on the geekhackers store as soon as i get them.

PM him about the 26" crossbar. he can make it, no problem.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Tue, 17 June 2014, 11:47:00
Two questions:

1) Is Kester 44 a no clean flux? As in is it okay to leave flux residue on the PCB after soldering?

2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Tue, 17 June 2014, 12:01:35
Is this visor (recommended elsewhere in this thread for the magnification) sufficient eye protection, or are goggles safety glasses the way to go?

http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403024244&sr=8-1&keywords=magnifier+visor

Edit: I meant safety glasses, not goggles.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 17 June 2014, 13:52:27
the panavise 301 with a set of panavise 316 and a crossbar and stem custom-made by melvang is the way to go. the 301 basic vise head is incredibly useful in tons of situations, and the stem part of the 315 is incredibly annoying to use.

antistatic mats are not needed. if you are working around static sensitive components get a grounding wrist strap instead.

This is the setup he is referring to: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45656.msg1349481#msg1349481

I think I am one of the only people who actually have this setup already because I got Melvang to custom build me the cross bar and stem.  I have to admit this setup is absolutely awesome...

I'm pretty sure you and mkawa are not the only ones who like Melvang setup. There will be more. The crossbar and and stem look amazing.  :thumb:
I really like the crossbar. In Vietnam, the best thing I can find is the square stainless steel 10x10cm (Attachment Link)
Maybe you can order Melvang another crossbar with the length 66cm (~26inch) to hold 104 keyboard.
melvang just let me know that he's done with another 5 18" units, stem and crossbar. they're going to go up on the geekhackers store as soon as i get them.

PM him about the 26" crossbar. he can make it, no problem.

Correction, I got 4 going to be heading to mkawa, all with 18" cross bars.  I can make one with a 26" bar no problem.  Would just cost a touch more due to material/shipping costs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 June 2014, 23:06:48
Two questions:

1) Is Kester 44 a no clean flux? As in is it okay to leave flux residue on the PCB after soldering?
yes. i clean it up, but it is generally ok to leave it there, and is classified as no-clean

Quote
2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?
for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 June 2014, 23:07:46
Is this visor (recommended elsewhere in this thread for the magnification) sufficient eye protection, or are goggles the way to go?

http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403024244&sr=8-1&keywords=magnifier+visor
if you feel you need goggles when you're soldering, your iron is way too hot. also, i have one of those i'm giving away free in the classifieds "free stuff" thread. PM me if you want it.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Wed, 18 June 2014, 00:49:06
Alright guys. I'm thinking about from my cheap $10 soldering iron... I don't want to spend a fortune but I suppose around a $100 max would be ok.

I know geekhackers.org carries the CL1481, but I can't help wonder for around that price if I might as well get a temperature controlled iron with its own stand. I'v seen a lot of people recommend the Hakko 888, but unfortunately the only the digital version around which seems a little more difficult to use but is not a deal breaker. I really don't want to read over all 70 pages of this thread and scour google for more info. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Pacifist on Wed, 18 June 2014, 00:54:54
Alright guys. I'm thinking about from my cheap $10 soldering iron... I don't want to spend a fortune but I suppose around a $100 max would be ok.

I know geekhackers.org carries the CL1481, but I can't help wonder for around that price if I might as well get a temperature controlled iron with its own stand. I'v seen a lot of people recommend the Hakko 888, but unfortunately the only the digital version around which seems a little more difficult to use but is not a deal breaker. I really don't want to read over all 70 pages of this thread and scour google for more info. Any suggestions?

I use the yihua 936 and its good enough for the basic soldering work I do
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 18 June 2014, 01:19:32
2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?
for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it :P

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 18 June 2014, 11:49:53
2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?
for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it :P

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

It is fairly common.  The most common cause is either to much heat in the iron or heating the pad for to long.  Another option for repairing the pad if the trace is on that side of the board, is to solder a piece of a lead from an LED from the trace to the pin.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 June 2014, 12:08:25
Quote
Alright guys. I'm thinking about from my cheap $10 soldering iron... I don't want to spend a fortune but I suppose around a $100 max would be ok.

I know geekhackers.org carries the CL1481, but I can't help wonder for around that price if I might as well get a temperature controlled iron with its own stand. I'v seen a lot of people recommend the Hakko 888, but unfortunately the only the digital version around which seems a little more difficult to use but is not a deal breaker. I really don't want to read over all 70 pages of this thread and scour google for more info. Any suggestions?

i'm obviously biased here, but to present a factual point, a temperature controlled iron used with 63/37 kester 44 gets set to 350C and never moves from that temperature.

also, my 80$ kit comes with a stand (edsyn IP491).

but, as levar burton once said, you don't have to take my word for it. *cue reading rainbow outro*
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 June 2014, 12:12:40
2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?
for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it :P

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

very common, and one of the reasons that i absolutely can't stand desoldering wick (which also universally burns your fingers when you use it on top of everything). two tips: first, feed more solder onto a pad before soldering it; this generates more thermal mass so that it's harder to overheat the pad. second, cock your soldapullt and put it into position before heating the solder. then, touch your iron to the solder (not the pad!), and as soon as the solder goes molten, move your iron off the solder and hit the button.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 18 June 2014, 13:01:06
2) While attempting to desolder the mini USB on a Rosewill, I accidentally sucked up the pads on the PCB into the soldapullt. Is there any way to fix this (maybe insert solder from other side of PCB, opposite to the iron so the solder goes towards the iron..? Not sure)?
for a mini USB, i would find a point on the board that is electronically connected to that point and solder a 26-28ga jumper wire. when you're desoldering small surface mount pads, don't be afraid to pull your iron away too quickly, and it's fine to keep some distance between the soldapullt and the pad. the soldapullts have lots of suction and don't have to physically connect to the joint.

another option for connecting to a lifted pad is to use a craft knife to expose a little bit of copper trace that's leading away from the pad, flux that copper and then try to join the part to the exposed piece of trace. this can be tricky if things are really tight. the jumper wire is generally preferred. jumper wires are also used when you realize you made a mistake on a PCB _after_ you prototype it :P

Thanks!

Is this a common problem...? Or is the Rosewill PCB just low quality? I had my temperature set to a little above 700 F (maybe 710?)

very common, and one of the reasons that i absolutely can't stand desoldering wick (which also universally burns your fingers when you use it on top of everything). two tips: first, feed more solder onto a pad before soldering it; this generates more thermal mass so that it's harder to overheat the pad. second, cock your soldapullt and put it into position before heating the solder. then, touch your iron to the solder (not the pad!), and as soon as the solder goes molten, move your iron off the solder and hit the button.

I can vouch for the adding solder to the pads before attempting to desolder.  My first attempt at desoldering was a Phantom.  Now this board has plated through holes which can be much more difficult to desolder, especially when the person that built it adds enough solder to see it on the other side of the board.  I pulled a couple pads in that effort.  But this was also with a radio shack bulb type desoldering iron.  Since then I have gotten one of geekhackers modded soldapults.  I have desoldered about 5 boards since then all with lead free and or 20 year old solder.  I have gotten into the habit of adding leaded solder to all pads before attempting to desolder and haven't pulled one pad up yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 18 June 2014, 13:37:50
Just had another thought - would SMD have to be desoldered with wick...? Or else the soldapullt would suck up the diode?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 June 2014, 14:34:26
typically what i would do with a part that small is to suck up the solder on one side of the part, then use tweezers to hold the part, melt the solder on the other side and pull the part off. now you just have to pull as much of the lead-free solder off the remaining pad as possible and you're golden
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Wed, 18 June 2014, 14:44:14
i'm obviously biased here, but to present a factual point, a temperature controlled iron used with 63/37 kester 44 gets set to 350C and never moves from that temperature.

That makes sense. Any big reasons why someone would want to use a higher temperature? (Lower won't melt anything).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 June 2014, 14:59:10
lead-free solder. otherwise, a higher temperature is going to carbonize (aka burn to a crisp) your flux and it will not only cause gunk to build up on your iron but the flux will be less effective.

i've brazed 1/2" copper piping to a 1.5" coupler before with only kester 44 and my 2020 set at precisely 350C. heating things up is about power transmission not about thermostats.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Fri, 20 June 2014, 13:44:15
As per jdcarpe's suggestion I am cross posting some general newbie tips from the Q&A thread:

solder sucker + soldering iron to desolder 87 switches, my first project, am i being ambitious?

Here are a few tips I wish someone had given me before my first desoldering project:

- If it's a dual sided, thick PCB, leave the tip of the iron on the joint for a full 1-2 seconds (with temp around 600f) to ensure all of the solder liquifies. This will make it suck out much easier.

- If you are having trouble with a joint, heat it and add fresh solder, then attempt to remove again. works much better.

- You will probably have many switches where you remove 95% of the solder, but one or two of the pins are still stuck to the pad by a tiny amount of solder (again, mostly with double sided PCBs). If this happens, use the hot iron tip to free the pin while you pull the switch from the other side. If you're unlucky, two pins may do this at once, and you'll have to go back and forth between them. Just don't use force, or you'll pull out the copper trace and have a bigger problem.

Of course, if anyone wants to suggest even better techniques than these, go for it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Fri, 20 June 2014, 14:21:59
Thanks. I'll also be desoldering 87 switches in order to install some clears. Any advice helps :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Fri, 20 June 2014, 18:19:43
Thanks. I'll also be desoldering 87 switches in order to install some clears. Any advice helps :)

learn to use a soldapult or get a hakko 808 is my advice...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Sat, 21 June 2014, 11:30:18
OK, so I just tried my 808 for the first time,  and it's amazing!  But when I tried to coat the tip in solder when I was finished, it just beaded up and fell off. Would not stick at all. what's the deal, and how do I get it to stick?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Mon, 23 June 2014, 11:59:35
A brief field report for my fellow soldering newbies: I built a RedBoard PTH kick yesterday[1]. It's the second SparkFun kit I've done - both were fun, worked as expected, and came with good instructions. I'd definitely be comfortable recommending them.

I did make the mistake of trying to have a conversation while I worked. It ended up okay though, because it gave me a chance to try my Soldapullt, which worked like a champ.

We could use a multimeter at work, so I'm planning to do the Elenco multimeter kit up on Geekhackers[2] soon.

[1] https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10908
[2] http://www.geekhackers.org/collections/electronics-kits/products/diy-multimeter-kit
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Mon, 23 June 2014, 22:08:01
Just thought I would provide a little update. Did the switch mod just fine, I know have a WASD v2 with Clears instead of browns (though I still like my topre better).

The edsyn desoldering pump was much larger in real life  then I expected. Took me a second to realize I had to push it in all the way inorder to remove the junk from the side of the tip. After that it went well.

Now that I have the hakko 888D, I have to say having a temperature controller iron is very nice. When soldering it would met at the touch - just add a dab and move on. Only took me a few seconds per switch. Desoldering was a little slower since it takes time to heat up the whole joint, but it still went well. The whole mod took me a few hours (maybe 3?) including taking off caps, desoldering, soldering, testing, reasembly, adding caps.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 24 June 2014, 17:11:16
OK, so I just tried my 808 for the first time,  and it's amazing!  But when I tried to coat the tip in solder when I was finished, it just beaded up and fell off. Would not stick at all. what's the deal, and how do I get it to stick?
may need more flux. also keep in mind that only about 2mm from the tip is tinned. the rest is plated with a material that solder will not melt onto.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 24 June 2014, 17:12:33
A brief field report for my fellow soldering newbies: I built a RedBoard PTH kick yesterday[1]. It's the second SparkFun kit I've done - both were fun, worked as expected, and came with good instructions. I'd definitely be comfortable recommending them.

I did make the mistake of trying to have a conversation while I worked. It ended up okay though, because it gave me a chance to try my Soldapullt, which worked like a champ.

We could use a multimeter at work, so I'm planning to do the Elenco multimeter kit up on Geekhackers[2] soon.

[1] https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10908
[2] http://www.geekhackers.org/collections/electronics-kits/products/diy-multimeter-kit

oooh, i didn't know sparkfun had a build-your-own arduino kit. that's cool!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Tue, 24 June 2014, 17:13:20
Thanks. I am using kester 44 63/37, and I have never had a problem getting it to stick to my iron. However, I think you're right that I need to buy some flux separately. What is your recommendation?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 26 June 2014, 13:35:50
mg chemicals 835 RA flux
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: intelli78 on Thu, 26 June 2014, 14:41:03
Will give it a shot,thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ninjadoc on Sat, 05 July 2014, 11:00:38
I just wanted to check back and say that the hakko 808 is worth every f^&*ing penny.
Thanks!

No doubt about that!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 05 July 2014, 12:02:42
speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 05 July 2014, 12:29:59
speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 05 July 2014, 13:44:52
another thing that's crucial to report is whether it's still made in japan
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 05 July 2014, 13:52:51
another thing that's crucial to report is whether it's still made in japan

The reviews I've seen say it is.  So does your link you gave earlier.  As does the detail page for the iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 05 July 2014, 14:04:06
oops. reading fail.

note i have a large investment in 808 tips, so i probably won't be upgrading...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 05 July 2014, 16:06:48
oops. reading fail.

note i have a large investment in 808 tips, so i probably won't be upgrading...

When I need to get more tips will be when I upgrade probably.  I like everything about what I see with the new unit, though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 07 July 2014, 00:47:27
speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

Oooohhh, very intriguing.  I may have to pick one of these up.  I sold my 808 to ninjadoc when I needed cash, but now that I'm steady again I'm thinking about picking another one up.  The 808 made desoldering fun.  I want that again.   :))

If I get one of these I'll be sure to post some comments about it here.   :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Thu, 17 July 2014, 20:45:30
I received my custom crossbar and stem (for use with Panavise 316 arms) from Melvang a couple weeks ago and finally had a chance to use them. They're a huge improvement over the equivalent parts that come with the Panavise 315, and Melvang is a great seller. Highly recommended if you're putting together a PCB holder.

Thanks Melvang!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 17 July 2014, 20:52:20
I received my custom crossbar and stem (for use with Panavise 316 arms) from Melvang a couple weeks ago and finally had a chance to use them. They're a huge improvement over the equivalent parts that come with the Panavise 315, and Melvang is a great seller. Highly recommended if you're putting together a PCB holder.

Thanks Melvang!

I have the same setup. Congrats, it is awesome. Make sure to get a an aluminum or steel plate with cut outs and you will have an awesome lube station as well.

+1 Melvang
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: uns211 on Thu, 17 July 2014, 21:32:49
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Thu, 17 July 2014, 21:42:20
I have the same setup. Congrats, it is awesome. Make sure to get a an aluminum or steel plate with cut outs and you will have an awesome lube station as well.

Hm, not sure I understand the part about a plate and cutouts. I've never lubed my switches so that's probably why. Do you have a pic showing the setup you're describing?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 17 July 2014, 23:20:53
I have the same setup. Congrats, it is awesome. Make sure to get a an aluminum or steel plate with cut outs and you will have an awesome lube station as well.

Hm, not sure I understand the part about a plate and cutouts. I've never lubed my switches so that's probably why. Do you have a pic showing the setup you're describing?

You can see it in action here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58969.msg1349714#msg1349714).  Basically you put a plate in the PCB holder and put all your switches in the plate that you want to mod.  Then you open and mod them while secure in the plate, which is why you need the cutouts so you can remove the top cover of the switch.  Make sense?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 17 July 2014, 23:24:27
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)


A little heavy on some of the joints, but not bad for a first time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Fri, 18 July 2014, 04:32:47
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)


Bit too much on the furthest to the left, first and third pin from the right could use more. Especially the one furthest to the right.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Fri, 18 July 2014, 08:12:46
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)


Bit too much on the furthest to the left, first and third pin from the right could use more. Especially the one furthest to the right.

Also, furthest to the right looks a little cold to me, but it's hard to see.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Fri, 18 July 2014, 12:15:44
You can see it in action here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58969.msg1349714#msg1349714).  Basically you put a plate in the PCB holder and put all your switches in the plate that you want to mod.  Then you open and mod them while secure in the plate, which is why you need the cutouts so you can remove the top cover of the switch.  Make sense?

Indeed, makes a lot of sense - thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 19 July 2014, 16:34:27
FYI, melvang made another bath of crossbars and sent them to me. They'll be available more generally soon
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 19 July 2014, 16:52:34
FYI, melvang made another bath of crossbars and sent them to me. They'll be available more generally soon

I should probably pick one of those up for the gh60s I'll need to build.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 23 July 2014, 22:27:31
Finished assembling my first full keyboard ever. GON NerD TKL - 121 resistors, 34 surface mount LEDs, and a lot more trough hole soldering (which I have never been more appreciative of after finishing all the SMD soldering). Encountered a few issues that I improvised with along the way because I was impatient about finishing this keyboard, but I figured now that I finished, I would ask for future reference (Duck Viper come to me please  :eek:)

1) What setup do you guys solder with (chairs/table height included)? I am rather focus minded, so once I start, I like to finish - soldered for 5 hours straight, with my back aching afterwards because I was always kind of hunched over trying to get the tweezers to poke the SMD into the little pool of solder correctly. I have a Panavise, but didn't use it because I was afraid that I would break the PCB if I applied too much pressure on it (have to rest my wrists on the table/PCB or else my hands shake way too much to do anything).

2) What is the best way to desolder a switch? I had to desolder a few times due to really dumb mistakes, and each time I found that I often had just a tiny bit of solder left over in the joint that would cause the switch to stick. Fortunately, it was often just one of the pins, so I could just heat it up and pull out the switch on the other side after the solder melted. It was a pain in the ass though, and made me wonder how people desolder entire boards - I was tired enough just desoldering 15 switches (and an LED in a switch, that was even harder). I used a soldapullt

3) Will 99% isopropyl alcohol damage the PCB? I didn't have 99% on hand, but on my techkeys business card (which is kind of like my test PCB), I tried i think about 70%? alcohol, which caused the PCB to become faded and dull instead of retaining its previous shininess.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 23 July 2014, 22:34:22
1) What setup do you guys solder with (chairs/table height included)? I am rather focus minded, so once I start, I like to finish - soldered for 5 hours straight, with my back aching afterwards because I was always kind of hunched over trying to get the tweezers to poke the SMD into the little pool of solder correctly. I have a Panavise, but didn't use it because I was afraid that I would break the PCB if I applied too much pressure on it (have to rest my wrists on the table/PCB or else my hands shake way too much to do anything).

I don't know the exact heights of my table/chair, but I have to hunch and it hurts my back.  That said, I'm really tall, so I hunch all the time and my back always hurts.  So I'm the wrong person to ask.  But as with everything ergo related, fitting things to your proper height will help.   :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 23 July 2014, 23:00:35
I don't know the exact heights of my table/chair, but I have to hunch and it hurts my back.  That said, I'm really tall, so I hunch all the time and my back always hurts.  So I'm the wrong person to ask.  But as with everything ergo related, fitting things to your proper height will help.   :thumb:

I would imagine higher table/shorter chair would help? I tried that (sat on a little foot stool), but then my shoulders are uncomfortably raised up higher.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 23 July 2014, 23:02:24
I don't know the exact heights of my table/chair, but I have to hunch and it hurts my back.  That said, I'm really tall, so I hunch all the time and my back always hurts.  So I'm the wrong person to ask.  But as with everything ergo related, fitting things to your proper height will help.   :thumb:

I would imagine higher table/shorter chair would help? I tried that (sat on a little foot stool), but then my shoulders are uncomfortably raised up higher.

Personally, I prefer that the difference in height between the seat and table be fitted for me more than I care about the actual height from the floor.  But that's because it's silly to hope to find a chair/table that will go that high.  So I just lower the seat until my torso is comfortable.  Cause otherwise you're hunching over and it's uncomfortable.  But this is just my experience, and I'm sure it's different for everyone.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Wed, 23 July 2014, 23:05:12

2) What is the best way to desolder a switch? I had to desolder a few times due to really dumb mistakes, and each time I found that I often had just a tiny bit of solder left over in the joint that would cause the switch to stick. Fortunately, it was often just one of the pins, so I could just heat it up and pull out the switch on the other side after the solder melted. It was a pain in the ass though, and made me wonder how people desolder entire boards - I was tired enough just desoldering 15 switches (and an LED in a switch, that was even harder). I used a soldapullt


it took me 4 hours for a fullsize board with a soldapult :( so hard :(

it was a cherry board with 'internal diodes' so it was like doing a whole board with LEDs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Wed, 23 July 2014, 23:14:10
it took me 4 hours for a fullsize board with a soldapult :( so hard :(

it was a cherry board with 'internal diodes' so it was like doing a whole board with LEDs.

I'm so sorry...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 24 July 2014, 01:51:04
1. Not sure of the exact height, but, I have tried a couple of setups, and the one where I had to hunch a little was the one that worked best for me. Having the table a little higher so I don't have to arch my back so much didn't really work out as well, as it was uncomfortable for my hands.

2. I use a soldapullt and 9/10 times it will suck all the solder out of the holes, if it doesn't, I reapply some solder and repeat, there are however some stubborn joints, and they have to be removed as you said, heat the joint with one hand, pull the switch with the other.

3. It will work well, I think the reason 70% might not have worked as well is that the flux would have spread on the whole PCB via the dilute IPA, use 99% and give it a couple of good wipes, PCB should be nice and shiny.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 24 July 2014, 13:53:02
To pay for the new hakko desoldering iron I want, I should rent my 808 out to DIY keyboarders...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Thu, 24 July 2014, 14:02:57
1. Not sure of the exact height, but, I have tried a couple of setups, and the one where I had to hunch a little was the one that worked best for me. Having the table a little higher so I don't have to arch my back so much didn't really work out as well, as it was uncomfortable for my hands.

2. I use a soldapullt and 9/10 times it will suck all the solder out of the holes, if it doesn't, I reapply some solder and repeat, there are however some stubborn joints, and they have to be removed as you said, heat the joint with one hand, pull the switch with the other.

3. It will work well, I think the reason 70% might not have worked as well is that the flux would have spread on the whole PCB via the dilute IPA, use 99% and give it a couple of good wipes, PCB should be nice and shiny.

Thanks! Regarding desoldering switches, do you like to desolder a lot of joints before you start trying to pull switches out? Or do you go one by one?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 24 July 2014, 14:06:24
To pay for the new hakko desoldering iron I want, I should rent my 808 out to DIY keyboarders...

Do they include a stand with the new model?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 24 July 2014, 14:55:25
To pay for the new hakko desoldering iron I want, I should rent my 808 out to DIY keyboarders...

Do they include a stand with the new model?

It doesn't look like it, but it has a quick change system for the tips so I would assume there's a base to do that.  Dunno for sure.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 24 July 2014, 16:12:16
1. Not sure of the exact height, but, I have tried a couple of setups, and the one where I had to hunch a little was the one that worked best for me. Having the table a little higher so I don't have to arch my back so much didn't really work out as well, as it was uncomfortable for my hands.

2. I use a soldapullt and 9/10 times it will suck all the solder out of the holes, if it doesn't, I reapply some solder and repeat, there are however some stubborn joints, and they have to be removed as you said, heat the joint with one hand, pull the switch with the other.

3. It will work well, I think the reason 70% might not have worked as well is that the flux would have spread on the whole PCB via the dilute IPA, use 99% and give it a couple of good wipes, PCB should be nice and shiny.

Thanks! Regarding desoldering switches, do you like to desolder a lot of joints before you start trying to pull switches out? Or do you go one by one?

I do them all, then remove switches. Too much changing tools and wasted time if you do both processes at the same time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Thu, 24 July 2014, 18:32:02
1. Not sure of the exact height, but, I have tried a couple of setups, and the one where I had to hunch a little was the one that worked best for me. Having the table a little higher so I don't have to arch my back so much didn't really work out as well, as it was uncomfortable for my hands.

2. I use a soldapullt and 9/10 times it will suck all the solder out of the holes, if it doesn't, I reapply some solder and repeat, there are however some stubborn joints, and they have to be removed as you said, heat the joint with one hand, pull the switch with the other.

3. It will work well, I think the reason 70% might not have worked as well is that the flux would have spread on the whole PCB via the dilute IPA, use 99% and give it a couple of good wipes, PCB should be nice and shiny.

Thanks! Regarding desoldering switches, do you like to desolder a lot of joints before you start trying to pull switches out? Or do you go one by one?

I do them all, then remove switches. Too much changing tools and wasted time if you do both processes at the same time.

When I desoldered my 87 key WASD I desoldered everything, pulled all switched, put all switches back, soldered everything. After I figured out how to keep the soldapult clean it would suck everything up almost every time. I had to go back and add more solder probably 5 times for the whole thing. Each switch went fairly fast but it took me a few hours to get the whole mod done.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 24 July 2014, 19:30:06
I have found that is easier to solder pull if I add a little more solder, so I just do it on every joint. I find it is quicker this way, especially since I don't run my iron too hot.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jameslr on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:14:54
So I'm looking to get into soldering, and I don't have an iron. I read the first thread and I want to get started on the cheap (Under $50). I see the Edsyn CL1481 is supposed to fit this budget, but I can't find them anywhere except the geekhackers.org store ($80). At that price should I just get a Hakko 888D from Amazon at $91? Regardless, it's a bit out of my initial budget, so is there something new / different that I should look at? Refurb Hakko units or Wellers perhaps? My first project will likely be desoldering switches to swap them out with MX Clears (Filco TKL). I'll need a soldapullt for that I'm assuming.

Any tips would be great. Thanks!

P.S. I read about half of this entire thread but some of the info is quite outdated. The links in the OP are mostly dead.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: minho on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:21:59
After I figured out how to keep the soldapult clean it would suck everything up almost every time. I had to go back and add more solder probably 5 times for the whole thing. Each switch went fairly fast but it took me a few hours to get the whole mod done.

How often should you clean the soldapullt?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:26:28
So I'm looking to get into soldering, and I don't have an iron. I read the first thread and I want to get started on the cheap (Under $50). I see the Edsyn CL1481 is supposed to fit this budget, but I can't find them anywhere except the geekhackers.org store ($80). At that price should I just get a Hakko 888D from Amazon at $91? Regardless, it's a bit out of my initial budget, so is there something new / different that I should look at? Refurb Hakko units or Wellers perhaps? My first project will likely be desoldering switches to swap them out with MX Clears (Filco TKL). I'll need a soldapullt for that I'm assuming.

Any tips would be great. Thanks!

P.S. I read about half of this entire thread but some of the info is quite outdated. The links in the OP are mostly dead.

My honest opinion, don't cheap out on the iron over $40. Both the irons you mentioned are good options for your needs. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:28:28
When doing through-hole soldering I often find myself struggling to position the PCB well, after I've placed the part and flipped the board over. So far I've been propping the board up with hand tools in an ad hoc way, since it will rarely stay flat itself (because of other parts that are on the board and not evenly distributed). My Panavise isn't a lot of help in this situation, because the board needs to be sitting on something to hold the parts in place.

Is there a good technique for doing this? I feel like I've done a poor job of explaining what I mean, but hopefully you know what I'm talking about anyway.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Hundrakia on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:29:58
I'd just hold the components in with electrical tape, but I've no clue if that's a dangerous habit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:36:27
When doing through-hole soldering I often find myself struggling to position the PCB well, after I've placed the part and flipped the board over. So far I've been propping the board up with hand tools in an ad hoc way, since it will rarely stay flat itself (because of other parts that are on the board and not evenly distributed). My Panavise isn't a lot of help in this situation, because the board needs to be sitting on something to hold the parts in place.

Is there a good technique for doing this? I feel like I've done a poor job of explaining what I mean, but hopefully you know what I'm talking about anyway.

If it is a component with longer legs that will be clipped you can bend the legs out to keep them in place.  For something with shorter legs like switches you could try an alligator clip on one of the legs until you get one of the pins soldered.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:42:12
So I'm looking to get into soldering, and I don't have an iron. I read the first thread and I want to get started on the cheap (Under $50). I see the Edsyn CL1481 is supposed to fit this budget, but I can't find them anywhere except the geekhackers.org store ($80). At that price should I just get a Hakko 888D from Amazon at $91? Regardless, it's a bit out of my initial budget, so is there something new / different that I should look at? Refurb Hakko units or Wellers perhaps? My first project will likely be desoldering switches to swap them out with MX Clears (Filco TKL). I'll need a soldapullt for that I'm assuming.

Any tips would be great. Thanks!

P.S. I read about half of this entire thread but some of the info is quite outdated. The links in the OP are mostly dead.

(Disclaimer: I'm a soldering newbie too).

I have the Hakko FX-888D and have been very happy with it. I wasn't aware of the GeekHackers bundle when I bought the Hakko, but if I had been I may have gone that way. I haven't researched the CL1481 in detail but mkawa says it's good and he knows what he's talking about. One apparent advantage of the Hakko, that you can adjust the temperature, doesn't really matter since the CL1481 is already set at the temperature you want anyway.

Long story short: I think both would be good picks. I'm sure there are also good picks in the $40-$50 range but I've only used the Hakko so I can't be much help there.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Thu, 24 July 2014, 20:47:38
If it is a component with longer legs that will be clipped you can bend the legs out to keep them in place.  For something with shorter legs like switches you could try an alligator clip on one of the legs until you get one of the pins soldered.

Yeah, I do the leg-bending thing, though sometimes it doesn't hold things as well as I'd like. Probably I'm not bending them enough. I hadn't thought of an alligator clip, that's a good idea. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Fri, 25 July 2014, 04:17:04
Thanks! Regarding desoldering switches, do you like to desolder a lot of joints before you start trying to pull switches out? Or do you go one by one?

I generally go by rows, I desolder all joints in a row in one go, then pull them out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jameslr on Fri, 25 July 2014, 14:05:38
.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Fri, 25 July 2014, 14:39:26
That is a solid deal.  It's usually $90-$100 just for the iron with occasional $70 deals.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Badwrench on Fri, 25 July 2014, 20:18:15
Is this overkill for personal use?  I like the idea of have 2 different tips. 

http://sandiego.en.craigslist.org/csd/for/4540878052.html (http://sandiego.en.craigslist.org/csd/for/4540878052.html)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 25 July 2014, 20:36:21
Is this overkill for personal use?  I like the idea of have 2 different tips. 

http://sandiego.en.craigslist.org/csd/for/4540878052.html (http://sandiego.en.craigslist.org/csd/for/4540878052.html)

Seems like a pretty solid deal.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 25 July 2014, 21:49:23
So, I just bought a Hakko 888D from B+D Enterprises. While emailing one of their engineers back and forth I was talking to him about our community and I think they're willing to put together some starter / deluxe kits for soldering and desoldering. This is what he quoted me for the following:

Hakko 888D $76
2 x Indium .032" 20ft bobbins $0
5ft of desoldering braid/ wick $3.50
Hakko PD-03 desoldering pump $12.95
Hakko 599B tip cleaner $6
no-clean flux pen $8.95
CHP120 trimmers $0

Shipping to my home in Indiana via UPS: $0

Total: $107.40

Couldn't have expected a better deal. I think they're going to put together some kits like this and make them available to the Geekhack community. He invoiced me via Paypal. Customer service was outstanding, and even if their price wasn't pretty much the best deal you can get, I would still do business with them. The deluxe kits would include the same things with larger quantites of solder and wick.

If you would like to take advantage of this same deal, email: dave.anderson -at- bdent -dot- com

I've bought many things from bdent they usually have good prices and have occasional sales and freebies to sweeten the deal.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Fri, 25 July 2014, 22:16:10
So, I just bought a Hakko 888D from B+D Enterprises. While emailing one of their engineers back and forth I was talking to him about our community and I think they're willing to put together some starter / deluxe kits for soldering and desoldering. This is what he quoted me for the following:

Hakko 888D $76
2 x Indium .032" 20ft bobbins $0
5ft of desoldering braid/ wick $3.50
Hakko PD-03 desoldering pump $12.95
Hakko 599B tip cleaner $6
no-clean flux pen $8.95
CHP120 trimmers $0

Shipping to my home in Indiana via UPS: $0

Total: $107.40

Couldn't have expected a better deal. I think they're going to put together some kits like this and make them available to the Geekhack community. He invoiced me via Paypal. Customer service was outstanding, and even if their price wasn't pretty much the best deal you can get, I would still do business with them. The deluxe kits would include the same things with larger quantites of solder and wick.

If you would like to take advantage of this same deal, email: dave.anderson -at- bdent -dot- com

Sounds like you got a great deal.

What are Indium bobbins? I did a quick search but didn't understand what I found (the first page of results included another thread here on GH and... multiple references to sensors for cryogenics).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 25 July 2014, 22:32:28
So, I just bought a Hakko 888D from B+D Enterprises. While emailing one of their engineers back and forth I was talking to him about our community and I think they're willing to put together some starter / deluxe kits for soldering and desoldering. This is what he quoted me for the following:

Hakko 888D $76
2 x Indium .032" 20ft bobbins $0
5ft of desoldering braid/ wick $3.50
Hakko PD-03 desoldering pump $12.95
Hakko 599B tip cleaner $6
no-clean flux pen $8.95
CHP120 trimmers $0

Shipping to my home in Indiana via UPS: $0

Total: $107.40

Couldn't have expected a better deal. I think they're going to put together some kits like this and make them available to the Geekhack community. He invoiced me via Paypal. Customer service was outstanding, and even if their price wasn't pretty much the best deal you can get, I would still do business with them. The deluxe kits would include the same things with larger quantites of solder and wick.

If you would like to take advantage of this same deal, email: dave.anderson -at- bdent -dot- com

Sounds like you got a great deal.

What are Indium bobbins? I did a quick search but didn't understand what I found (the first page of results included another thread here on GH and... multiple references to sensors for cryogenics).

http://www.bdent.com/indium-wire-solder-sn60pb40-cw-201-flux-core-032-20-ft.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 25 July 2014, 22:36:32
I am having hell soldering. Don't know why but suddenly in the middle of my desoldering session last night (which was mostly soldering given that it was a damn hard double sided PCB) the solder wire stopped melting! I changed soldering tools, swapped out a tip, wiped the tips, sanded them, and no dice!!

I cut part of the wire off thinking the tip may have impurities and again no dice.

Changed to my spare spool and no dif. No more melting at all. The soldering tip could still melt existing solder on PCBs so not as if I was having power problems. The only thing that was different was the existence of brown liquid stuff dunno where that came from. But as I'd said, changing soldering irons, tips all didn't work. Even if these were impurities surely changing would have made a dif?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 26 July 2014, 00:51:51
The brown liquid is the flux in the flux core solder.  Outside of that I don't know what to tell you.

I had an issue once where I touched the insulation on a wire with my tip and solder would no longer stick to that portion of the tip.  I would still melt it, just wouldn't stick.  Same thing happened one time when I accidentally left my iron on for 3 days.  That led me to getting a different tip for my iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jameslr on Sat, 26 July 2014, 14:59:12
A bobbin is a small spool. Like the little ones you see small quantities of thread sold with.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Sat, 26 July 2014, 19:51:46
So my Mini-Scope finger-switched iron looks like its given up the ghost, after about 30 years (inherited it).

 I'd love to get the hakko 888d or something similar, especially with pricing like was posted in the Great Finds thread yesterday.. But there's the whole 110-240v thing.
Going back through some old threads I came across this from mkawa's learn-to-solder GB at the start of the year:

220v (NEW!) -- +20$. The extension cord that comes with your unit will include an inline step-down transformer and terminate in a plug that is closer to your country's than NEMA 15-5.

Any suggestions on where I'd be able to find something like this? It would make buying an iron much cheaper and easier.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sun, 27 July 2014, 05:19:51
I filed tip of my solder sucker and desoldered swtiches today and it worked like a charm. The filed tip fits to iron tip very well and I can sucks solder easily.
I got this nice idea from some GH member at this thread long ago, IIRC. I can't find the original message now.

(http://i.imgur.com/Wcsozbpl.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Mon, 28 July 2014, 10:43:54
I filed tip of my solder sucker and desoldered swtiches today and it worked like a charm. The filed tip fits to iron tip very well and I can sucks solder easily.
I got this nice idea from some GH member at this thread long ago, IIRC. I can't find the original message now.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Wcsozbpl.jpg)


I can one-up that, although it is due to my incompetence rather than superior ideas.

My solder sucker has been partly burnt/ melted at that point, so it is starting to have a natural indentation.  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Tue, 29 July 2014, 13:31:14
So I might want to start soldering. Thanks to the smallfry kit...

Right now all I have is a Radioshack 35W iron. Beat up and old, with random solder in the drawer.

I want to get the Hakko FX901 cordless iron. It supposedly works well for 2 whole hours on NiMH batteries, and the reviews on Amazon confirm that.
So it should be good for my light usage. Only downside is that it only has ONE type of conical tip: http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx901_tips.html#productNav

What do you guys think?

Also what else do I need besides:
- brass sponge
- solder (I prefer lead-free)
- soldapult

Is the third hand (magnifying glass + stand thing) necessary or even useful?
I was thinking of just putting all of the diodes/switches on the pcb, flipping it over, and letting it sit on the table.
I've never done this before >.>
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 29 July 2014, 15:23:21
So I might want to start soldering. Thanks to the smallfry kit...

Right now all I have is a Radioshack 35W iron. Beat up and old, with random solder in the drawer.

I want to get the Hakko FX901 cordless iron. It supposedly works well for 2 whole hours on NiMH batteries, and the reviews on Amazon confirm that.
So it should be good for my light usage. Only downside is that it only has ONE type of conical tip: http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx901_tips.html#productNav

What do you guys think?

Also what else do I need besides:
- brass sponge
- solder (I prefer lead-free)
- soldapult

Is the third hand (magnifying glass + stand thing) necessary or even useful?
I was thinking of just putting all of the diodes/switches on the pcb, flipping it over, and letting it sit on the table.
I've never done this before >.>

I wouldn't recommend that iron just because of the 2 hour battery life.  More often than not I find myself soldering for more than 2 hours at a hot.  Also, NiMH batterys lose power at a fairly drastic rate when the charge starts to deplete.  Unlike LiPO or LiON batteries where you have full power until the are dead. 

There is some debate on brass sponge vs damp sponge.  Mkawa recommends the damp sponge iirc.

Can I ask why you want lead free solder?  Leaded solder is not dangerous and I have read reports that it is actually better for the enviroment than RoHS compliant lead free.  Plus, lead free solder is more difficult to work with especially when desoldering.  It requires more heat to fully melt and as a result there is a higher chance of lifting pads and such when working with it.  When I desolder a board with lead free solder I go through each joint and reflow while adding leaded solder before attempting to remove any.  Makes life much easier.

The third hands are pretty much absolute crap.  If you want a good work holder get a Panavise and the PCB holder arms (model number 316 is just the arms) and mkawa has the brackets for the base that I built on geekhackers.org.  I only sent him 4 sets so if he is out of stock I can build you one though it will have a lead time. 

I would recommend about any other iron than that radio shack one with the conical tip.  For what we do that us about the last shape of tip you will want.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Tue, 29 July 2014, 15:26:45
Currently my only soldering tip is the Hakko T18-D16 (1.6mm chisel) that came with my FX-888D.

Do you think I'd be well served by getting something smaller for SMT? It looks like the main options would be the T18-D12 (1.2mm chisel) or T18-D08 (0.8mm chisel).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Hundrakia on Tue, 29 July 2014, 15:29:30
I need more money. Lol. I pretty badly want to get my hands on a desoldering iron, variable temp controlled soldering iron, hot air pen, ugh. Someone! Give me ideas for money lmao
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Tue, 29 July 2014, 15:31:14
The third hands are pretty much absolute crap.  If you want a good work holder get a Panavise and the PCB holder arms (model number 316 is just the arms) and mkawa has the brackets for the base that I built on geekhackers.org.  I only sent him 4 sets so if he is out of stock I can build you one though it will have a lead time. 

I second this. I bought the parts that Melvang makes and they're a big improvement over the stock Panavise parts, but even without that the Panavise is better than the third hands things.

I've considered buying a separate magnifying lamp but not having one hasn't really been a problem so far.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Tue, 29 July 2014, 15:43:56
So I might want to start soldering. Thanks to the smallfry kit...

Right now all I have is a Radioshack 35W iron. Beat up and old, with random solder in the drawer.

I want to get the Hakko FX901 cordless iron. It supposedly works well for 2 whole hours on NiMH batteries, and the reviews on Amazon confirm that.
So it should be good for my light usage. Only downside is that it only has ONE type of conical tip: http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx901_tips.html#productNav

What do you guys think?

Also what else do I need besides:
- brass sponge
- solder (I prefer lead-free)
- soldapult

Is the third hand (magnifying glass + stand thing) necessary or even useful?
I was thinking of just putting all of the diodes/switches on the pcb, flipping it over, and letting it sit on the table.
I've never done this before >.>

I wouldn't recommend that iron just because of the 2 hour battery life.  More often than not I find myself soldering for more than 2 hours at a hot.  Also, NiMH batterys lose power at a fairly drastic rate when the charge starts to deplete.  Unlike LiPO or LiON batteries where you have full power until the are dead. 

There is some debate on brass sponge vs damp sponge.  Mkawa recommends the damp sponge iirc.

Can I ask why you want lead free solder?  Leaded solder is not dangerous and I have read reports that it is actually better for the enviroment than RoHS compliant lead free.  Plus, lead free solder is more difficult to work with especially when desoldering.  It requires more heat to fully melt and as a result there is a higher chance of lifting pads and such when working with it.  When I desolder a board with lead free solder I go through each joint and reflow while adding leaded solder before attempting to remove any.  Makes life much easier.

The third hands are pretty much absolute crap.  If you want a good work holder get a Panavise and the PCB holder arms (model number 316 is just the arms) and mkawa has the brackets for the base that I built on geekhackers.org.  I only sent him 4 sets so if he is out of stock I can build you one though it will have a lead time. 

I would recommend about any other iron than that radio shack one with the conical tip.  For what we do that us about the last shape of tip you will want.

Hm.. I don't mind being forced to stop at 2 hours, gives me an automatic sanity check lol. Plus I could just keep a second set of batteries charging while I work. Also, according to reviews (one random website and a bunch on amazon) the heat level actually stays consistent until absolute battery death. I just really hate wires ):

The lead-free thing was just me acting on instinct. So fumes from soldering with leaded solder is safe?

And thanks for the advice on the panavise. I've actually been wanting one to hold my dremel and other purposes. I'll take a look at those.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 29 July 2014, 15:52:55
So I might want to start soldering. Thanks to the smallfry kit...

Right now all I have is a Radioshack 35W iron. Beat up and old, with random solder in the drawer.

I want to get the Hakko FX901 cordless iron. It supposedly works well for 2 whole hours on NiMH batteries, and the reviews on Amazon confirm that.
So it should be good for my light usage. Only downside is that it only has ONE type of conical tip: http://www.hakko.com/english/products/hakko_fx901_tips.html#productNav

What do you guys think?

Also what else do I need besides:
- brass sponge
- solder (I prefer lead-free)
- soldapult

Is the third hand (magnifying glass + stand thing) necessary or even useful?
I was thinking of just putting all of the diodes/switches on the pcb, flipping it over, and letting it sit on the table.
I've never done this before >.>

I wouldn't recommend that iron just because of the 2 hour battery life.  More often than not I find myself soldering for more than 2 hours at a hot.  Also, NiMH batterys lose power at a fairly drastic rate when the charge starts to deplete.  Unlike LiPO or LiON batteries where you have full power until the are dead. 

There is some debate on brass sponge vs damp sponge.  Mkawa recommends the damp sponge iirc.

Can I ask why you want lead free solder?  Leaded solder is not dangerous and I have read reports that it is actually better for the enviroment than RoHS compliant lead free.  Plus, lead free solder is more difficult to work with especially when desoldering.  It requires more heat to fully melt and as a result there is a higher chance of lifting pads and such when working with it.  When I desolder a board with lead free solder I go through each joint and reflow while adding leaded solder before attempting to remove any.  Makes life much easier.

The third hands are pretty much absolute crap.  If you want a good work holder get a Panavise and the PCB holder arms (model number 316 is just the arms) and mkawa has the brackets for the base that I built on geekhackers.org.  I only sent him 4 sets so if he is out of stock I can build you one though it will have a lead time. 

I would recommend about any other iron than that radio shack one with the conical tip.  For what we do that us about the last shape of tip you will want.

Hm.. I don't mind being forced to stop at 2 hours, gives me an automatic sanity check lol. Plus I could just keep a second set of batteries charging while I work. Also, according to reviews (one random website and a bunch on amazon) the heat level actually stays consistent until absolute battery death. I just really hate wires ):

The lead-free thing was just me acting on instinct. So fumes from soldering with leaded solder is safe?

And thanks for the advice on the panavise. I've actually been wanting one to hold my dremel and other purposes. I'll take a look at those.

The fumes from leaded solder are from the flux not the lead.  Yes it is perfectly safe.  The reason for lead free solder and the RoHS push is because of enviromental concerns of the lead in solder joints.  The same thing happened with wheel weights on cars.  Those are mostly zinc now instead of lead.  Lead is also being phased out of fishing sinkers and shot in hunting bullets and shotgun shells for the same reasons.  Just remember to wash your hands after handling the solder.  That really is the only precaution that should be taken as the exposure levels for the hobbyist are low enough to not pose an issue. Also, don't let kiddos and pets chew on it.  It won't kill them and one time won't be an issue but it does take a long time for it to leave the body and has an accumulating effect.

I actually have a worse scenario at work with the amount of stick welding I do and the manganese fumes associated with that than the amount of soldering I do at home.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 29 July 2014, 16:44:43
Currently my only soldering tip is the Hakko T18-D16 (1.6mm chisel) that came with my FX-888D.

Do you think I'd be well served by getting something smaller for SMT? It looks like the main options would be the T18-D12 (1.2mm chisel) or T18-D08 (0.8mm chisel).

I use a smaller tip than the default for pretty much all my soldering. I was fine with the default, but the smaller one is really nice when working with SMDs. I am not sure, but I think I am using the .8mm chisel.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Tue, 29 July 2014, 20:56:59
I've used spade tip(900M-T-3BCZ) mainly for a few months and like it very much. It is a multifunctional tip, with this you can drag solder QFP easier than D tip, point solder 1608(metric) chips, huge thermal-mass USB receptacles and of course, through-hole components with no problem. You can even desolder keyboard switches due to its thickness. When I really need fine tip for sesitive work I use my 1.2mm D tip. Before using BC tip I've used 1.2D for SMT, 2.4D for TH and 2CF for QFP.

Tip of FX-888D is not hot swappable and not easy to exchange tips during session so I think you'll want one almighty tip. I'd recommend T18-C3(not CF) or C2 if pad clearance of your PCB is so tight.

Anyway, I think you want to visit Hakko tip selection guide before shop.
http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/

Currently my only soldering tip is the Hakko T18-D16 (1.6mm chisel) that came with my FX-888D.

Do you think I'd be well served by getting something smaller for SMT? It looks like the main options would be the T18-D12 (1.2mm chisel) or T18-D08 (0.8mm chisel).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Tue, 29 July 2014, 21:13:18
The fumes from leaded solder are from the flux not the lead.  Yes it is perfectly safe.  The reason for lead free solder and the RoHS push is because of enviromental concerns of the lead in solder joints.  The same thing happened with wheel weights on cars.  Those are mostly zinc now instead of lead.  Lead is also being phased out of fishing sinkers and shot in hunting bullets and shotgun shells for the same reasons.  Just remember to wash your hands after handling the solder.  That really is the only precaution that should be taken as the exposure levels for the hobbyist are low enough to not pose an issue. Also, don't let kiddos and pets chew on it.  It won't kill them and one time won't be an issue but it does take a long time for it to leave the body and has an accumulating effect.

I actually have a worse scenario at work with the amount of stick welding I do and the manganese fumes associated with that than the amount of soldering I do at home.

Hmm I see, makes sense. Thanks for the advice, I'll be going with leaded solder then.

One other thing, you mentioned before that conical tips are the absolute worse for what we do? Or did I read that wrong?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 29 July 2014, 21:19:56
The fumes from leaded solder are from the flux not the lead.  Yes it is perfectly safe.  The reason for lead free solder and the RoHS push is because of enviromental concerns of the lead in solder joints.  The same thing happened with wheel weights on cars.  Those are mostly zinc now instead of lead.  Lead is also being phased out of fishing sinkers and shot in hunting bullets and shotgun shells for the same reasons.  Just remember to wash your hands after handling the solder.  That really is the only precaution that should be taken as the exposure levels for the hobbyist are low enough to not pose an issue. Also, don't let kiddos and pets chew on it.  It won't kill them and one time won't be an issue but it does take a long time for it to leave the body and has an accumulating effect.

I actually have a worse scenario at work with the amount of stick welding I do and the manganese fumes associated with that than the amount of soldering I do at home.

Hmm I see, makes sense. Thanks for the advice, I'll be going with leaded solder then.

One other thing, you mentioned before that conical tips are the absolute worse for what we do? Or did I read that wrong?

You read that correct.  There might be a few instances that they work well but for the most part you will want a chisel/wedge shaped tip for faster heat transfer.  Think of it this way.  When soldering on a PCB, the name of the game is to get in, get it hot, do the work, and get out quickly.  With the conical tip, there is very little surface area to transfer that heat with.  So you will be holding the iron there for a while until it melts, the longer you keep a joint hot the better the chances are that you will lift a pad/trace.  Or if you crank the heat way up to get it melted quicker, when it does melt and the tip drops into the pool of solder, it will overheat the joint insanely quick and can cause damage quicker than you can pull it away.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Wed, 30 July 2014, 09:34:52
Hm thanks for the tips (haha >.>)

Ended up going for mkawa's soldering kit with the Edsyn CL1481. Comes with 3 diff sized tips and I trust that they're the proper shape lol.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Smasher816 on Wed, 30 July 2014, 10:15:27
One other thing, you mentioned before that conical tips are the absolute worse for what we do? Or did I read that wrong?

Someone recommended watching some EEVBlog videos to me, and they are fairly informative (but his voice annoys me a little). http://www.eevblog.com/2011/07/02/eevblog-183-soldering-tutorial-part-2/

You can watch the whole thing if you want, but jump to 15:50-17:25 to see a comparison between chisel and conical tips (and why they are worse).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 30 July 2014, 21:03:26
Hm thanks for the tips (haha >.>)

Ended up going for mkawa's soldering kit with the Edsyn CL1481. Comes with 3 diff sized tips and I trust that they're the proper shape lol.

Nice choice. You will not be disappointed, that is a good setup.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 30 July 2014, 21:39:57
One other thing, you mentioned before that conical tips are the absolute worse for what we do? Or did I read that wrong?

Someone recommended watching some EEVBlog videos to me, and they are fairly informative (but his voice annoys me a little). http://www.eevblog.com/2011/07/02/eevblog-183-soldering-tutorial-part-2/

You can watch the whole thing if you want, but jump to 15:50-17:25 to see a comparison between chisel and conical tips (and why they are worse).

Someone has suggested that to me too, but he annoyed me so much I made it about 45 seconds.

In all seriousness, if you want to learn to solder, watch the Pace solder tutorials. A bit old fashion, but very informative.

Here is one for single sided circuit boards:  http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AY5M-lGxvzo

Here is another that gives some insight into tip sizing (12:15 ish): http://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837&v=vIT4ra6Mo0s

Watch them all and learn a lot. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 30 July 2014, 21:50:30
all the iron tips sold on geekhackers are spades/chisel tips except for the fancy ones. in particular, i can get you anything from the edsyn catalog, including weird hooked tips, specialized SMT crown tips, and a couple of extremely nice solder cup tips (HIGHLY recommended for hand soldering of qfps and soics)

anyway, the "standard" tips for all the irons I sell are:

small: ~1mm spade
medium: ~2mm spade
large: ~3mm spade

remember, soldering is NOT about changing working temperature but about changing the amount of power transferred to a joint in order to achieve working temperature as quickly as possible without exceeding it. the determinant of power transfer is SURFACE AREA! repeat it! live by it! die by it! (no, not that last one. don't hurt yourself. soldering irons are hot).

but seriously, soldering is about setting a working temperature (rule of thumb is 350C for leaded, and 450C for unleaded), and then manipulating the size of your "thermal channel" or surface area in contact between the iron tip and the joint in order to reach that working temperature quickly on _both leads of the joint, and the solder_ without exceeding that temperature by enough to damage anything.

that's it! recite it while you're soldering and it will make your life much easier :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Thu, 31 July 2014, 00:15:05
Awesome. Feeling better bout my purchases every time I learn a bit more  :thumb:

Now another question. Would it be possible for me to make the Smallfry Kit or really work on any 60% board with just the standard Panavise 301?

I'm thinking of just using the vice to hold an edge of the PCB and work on it that way. Of course I'd have to be careful about putting pressure on the PCB... But would this work?

Trying to save some money, spent a lot already.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 31 July 2014, 08:24:39
it's possible, but i'd recommend the PV 396 instead as an "all-in-one" vise head.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Thu, 31 July 2014, 08:46:20
it's possible, but i'd recommend the PV 396 instead as an "all-in-one" vise head.

Ah. Didnt know that existed. So I can just pretty much use that the same way as the 316 hands + crossbar right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 01 August 2014, 21:52:21
yes, it's definitely possible, but works best for small pcbs or pcbs that are small in one dimension. when you get to large enough PCBs, the contact with the little rubber feet only being at the bottom of the PCB starts becoming a problem
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 01 August 2014, 22:02:39
So I got a set of panavise arms in the mail.  I am already trying to figure out in my head how to go about milling a quality one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 01 August 2014, 22:15:15
your last batch of crossbars is still sitting in a moving box somewhere unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Vintage on Fri, 01 August 2014, 22:21:56
Any advise on a decent DIY "helping hands" for 60% pcbs?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 02 August 2014, 01:11:44
this is actually exactly what we're talking about. the panavise 300 base is way way better than any helping hands. panavise sells a pcb holding kit for it, but i'm not crazy about most of it, particularly the stem and crossbar. melvang and i worked out a better replacement, which he has made a couple batches of. for a full pcb holding solution, one of his stem and crossbar sets plus a panavise 316 set is fantastic. he's saying additionally that he thinks he can make a superior replacement for the 316 as well.

in theory, i have his last batch of stem and crossbar sets that i am selling on commission for him (i think? you just sent them to me melvang :P, i have no idea what to do with them). but in practice, they're in a moving box and not in the same place i am right now XD
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 02 August 2014, 04:03:16
just to ask all of you

If I'm desoldering a modern keyboard, something built in the past 10 years. Can I safely expect it to be done using lead free solder?

Am wondering why Cherry keyboards seem to be so easy to desolder, but most other modern keyboards seem harder.

Is the Filco Majestouch 2 built using lead free solder?

The Ducky Shine 3?

The Tipro/ Cherry POS keyboards of the past 10 years?

Just trying to get a grip on how long desoldering should take. I always panic when I hold a tip to a solder joint for 10 seconds and nothing seems to happen. That was the case with some solder joints on my Tipro (it was also 2x sided PCB).

Yet on some keyboards (especially Cherry), it takes only 1-2 seconds for the solder to fully melt and be totally extractable in one pop of the soldapullt.

As I don't have a temperature regulator, I don't know how hot my solder iron is.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sat, 02 August 2014, 07:53:36
just to ask all of you

If I'm desoldering a modern keyboard, something built in the past 10 years. Can I safely expect it to be done using lead free solder?

Am wondering why Cherry keyboards seem to be so easy to desolder, but most other modern keyboards seem harder.

Is the Filco Majestouch 2 built using lead free solder?

The Ducky Shine 3?

The Tipro/ Cherry POS keyboards of the past 10 years?

Just trying to get a grip on how long desoldering should take. I always panic when I hold a tip to a solder joint for 10 seconds and nothing seems to happen. That was the case with some solder joints on my Tipro (it was also 2x sided PCB).

Yet on some keyboards (especially Cherry), it takes only 1-2 seconds for the solder to fully melt and be totally extractable in one pop of the soldapullt.

As I don't have a temperature regulator, I don't know how hot my solder iron is.

When you add heat, add solder too and it will help wet the existing solder joint and it will melt faster.

I recently desoldered a QFR and I don't think they used lead free solder cause it melted fine with my normal temp (once new solder was added).

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PandaSPUR on Sat, 02 August 2014, 08:45:38
this is actually exactly what we're talking about. the panavise 300 base is way way better than any helping hands. panavise sells a pcb holding kit for it, but i'm not crazy about most of it, particularly the stem and crossbar. melvang and i worked out a better replacement, which he has made a couple batches of. for a full pcb holding solution, one of his stem and crossbar sets plus a panavise 316 set is fantastic. he's saying additionally that he thinks he can make a superior replacement for the 316 as well.

in theory, i have his last batch of stem and crossbar sets that i am selling on commission for him (i think? you just sent them to me melvang :P, i have no idea what to do with them). but in practice, they're in a moving box and not in the same place i am right now XD

Let me know if you're selling please :D

And for how much $$
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: korrelate on Sat, 02 August 2014, 16:19:08
I haven't been soldering/desoldering for very long. So the other night I sat down to pull the Monterey Blues from an old Chicony and I got about 3/4 of the way through when my 808 took a sh*t on me. Completely inoperative. I'd pull the trigger and nothing. No sound coming from the pump whatsoever.

I packed everything up, went to bed and that was. Just read the manual earlier today and in the troubleshooting section it indicated that the cause was probably a blocked filter (behind the collection cup). My filter was definitely dirty but I didn't think that was enough to shut the pump down. I took their word for it, changed the filter and bang! Fully operational again. I ran that poker/spring contraption back through the nozzle just for the heck of it and I was back up and running again in no time.

Now that I am really used to the 808 (and a bit more familiar with desoldering in general) I can honestly say that the 808 rocks. I zipped through the remainder of that board in no time. Two key things to remember:

1. Heat the leads, not the solder.
2. Don't release the trigger until AFTER you've lifted the nozzle back off the lead (even then I keep it pressed for a little bit longer). I acutally practice this a bit every time I sit down. If you don't get this right the solder will block the nozzle and you've just squandered your time advantage on nozzle maintenance (i.e. cleaning the blockages from the nozzle).


Cheers,

K
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 02 August 2014, 17:25:50
this is actually exactly what we're talking about. the panavise 300 base is way way better than any helping hands. panavise sells a pcb holding kit for it, but i'm not crazy about most of it, particularly the stem and crossbar. melvang and i worked out a better replacement, which he has made a couple batches of. for a full pcb holding solution, one of his stem and crossbar sets plus a panavise 316 set is fantastic. he's saying additionally that he thinks he can make a superior replacement for the 316 as well.

in theory, i have his last batch of stem and crossbar sets that i am selling on commission for him (i think? you just sent them to me melvang :P, i have no idea what to do with them). but in practice, they're in a moving box and not in the same place i am right now XD

Let me know if you're selling please :D

And for how much $$
i want to take further conversation about this out of this thread, because it is artisan, but please contact melvang and work things out with him. he will let me know what to send where after he is paid directly :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 02 August 2014, 17:29:33
I haven't been soldering/desoldering for very long. So the other night I sat down to pull the Monterey Blues from an old Chicony and I got about 3/4 of the way through when my 808 took a sh*t on me. Completely inoperative. I'd pull the trigger and nothing. No sound coming from the pump whatsoever.

I packed everything up, went to bed and that was. Just read the manual earlier today and in the troubleshooting section it indicated that the cause was probably a blocked filter (behind the collection cup). My filter was definitely dirty but I didn't think that was enough to shut the pump down. I took their word for it, changed the filter and bang! Fully operational again. I ran that poker/spring contraption back through the nozzle just for the heck of it and I was back up and running again in no time.

Now that I am really used to the 808 (and a bit more familiar with desoldering in general) I can honestly say that the 808 rocks. I zipped through the remainder of that board in no time. Two key things to remember:

1. Heat the leads, not the solder.
2. Don't release the trigger until AFTER you've lifted the nozzle back off the lead (even then I keep it pressed for a little bit longer). I acutally practice this a bit every time I sit down. If you don't get this right the solder will block the nozzle and you've just squandered your time advantage on nozzle maintenance (i.e. cleaning the blockages from the nozzle).


Cheers,

K
there are three ways to try to clear the tip. 1) heat the 808 up to a higher temp than normal (use the tiny trim pot on the handle), wait a bit then hit the vacuum button until it's clear

2) heat the iron up to working temp and use the 1.0mm wire that comes with the 808 to shove the semi-molten solder through the tip

3) do this cold: take the tip off and drill through it. you will generally make the opening more than 1.0mm when you do this, but if you're as close to 1mm as you can get, the tip will still be usable.

that said, i have like 3 reserve tips because if you screw up really badly, you often won't be able to clear it without drilling. it's very easy to be sucking up soldering in a long session, forget to change the filter and end up clogging your tip. it's easily the biggest problem with the 808

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lingj on Sun, 03 August 2014, 01:27:04
Working on my 2nd soldering project, an Ergodox! Just waiting for my metal case to come in.

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14814993932_9e01141bd5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oz9HxS)
DSCN3186 (https://flic.kr/p/oz9HxS) by Linggj (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14792350926_c623a641a2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ox9Ezd)
DSCN3187 (https://flic.kr/p/ox9Ezd) by Linggj (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 03 August 2014, 08:26:01
yay! geekhack benefits everytime someone takes on a DIY project head on :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nomaded on Mon, 11 August 2014, 15:14:48
I just finished my 2nd ErgoDox (first one that I did completely myself) yesterday. There's flux left over on all the joints. I have a flux cleaning pen, but the flux has hardened quite a bit so need to scrub at the flux with the pen tip quite a bit.

Is there a better way to clean the flux? Should I even bother? About the only reason I want to do this is to get rid of a lingering flux odor.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 11 August 2014, 16:00:59
I just finished my 2nd ErgoDox (first one that I did completely myself) yesterday. There's flux left over on all the joints. I have a flux cleaning pen, but the flux has hardened quite a bit so need to scrub at the flux with the pen tip quite a bit.

Is there a better way to clean the flux? Should I even bother? About the only reason I want to do this is to get rid of a lingering flux odor.

I will let someone else answer this because I am also interested.

I tried using isopropyl alcohol and a nylon brush, but that didn't really do anything.  I ended up just scratching off the worst flux puddles and then cleaned with isopropyl alcohol and a nylon brush.  I would REALLY like a better solution because the flux on the board bothers me (since all my builds end up having clear case options)...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Mon, 11 August 2014, 16:56:41
did you use 99% isopropyl alcohol or a lower percentage version?


edit: I have heard good things about this. does anyone here have any experience with it?

http://uk.farnell.com/electrolube/flu400db/fluxclene-can-aero-brush-400ml/dp/725663
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 11 August 2014, 17:04:57
did you use 99% isopropyl alcohol or a lower percentage version?

Yes, 99% isopropyl alcohol. I had tried 70% rubbing alcohol at one point before I got the 99% stuff and obviously that did not work for me either.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: domoaligato on Mon, 11 August 2014, 20:50:58
I have soldered and desoldered my matte black gh60 rev.a pcb tons already and managed to clean it up just fine with just q tips and 99% iso.

Has anyone tried one of those deflux aerosol cans before?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 11 August 2014, 21:43:31
I am trying to find lint-free Kim wipes, but I am having a hard time finding them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jameslr on Mon, 11 August 2014, 21:58:05
You can try acetone or safe lacquer thinner, rinse with distilled water. That's what I did for my Filco I just resoldered new switches onto. Clean as a whistle now. I wouldn't put it on anything but the underside of the board though. No telling what that stuff does to other components like SMD, etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 11 August 2014, 22:06:17
kim wipes are kind of a waste of money when you can use a toothbrush and soap quite successfully.

for actual sensitive lint-free high purity fiber situations, i recommend photographic solutions pec pads instead. i also recommend eclipse lens cleaner (anhydrous methyl alcohol) for serious cleaning of sensitive components.

that said, i don't think you need any of these things for pcbs. a tooth brush, a menda pump dispenser and MG chem anhydrous isopropyl from fry's is like, overkill even. soap and water is also quite effective, just use 70-90% iso as a final rinse to dry everything off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 11 August 2014, 22:27:20
kim wipes are kind of a waste of money when you can use a toothbrush and soap quite successfully.

for actual sensitive lint-free high purity fiber situations, i recommend photographic solutions pec pads instead. i also recommend eclipse lens cleaner (anhydrous methyl alcohol) for serious cleaning of sensitive components.

that said, i don't think you need any of these things for pcbs. a tooth brush, a menda pump dispenser and MG chem anhydrous isopropyl from fry's is like, overkill even. soap and water is also quite effective, just use 70-90% iso as a final rinse to dry everything off.

I will try a toothbrush, I think that will make a big difference. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:20:39
+1 for toothbrush,

I have used gasoline (petrol) and works great, although mkawa said something about cancer, so I started using gloves while working with gasoline. But yeah, gasoline followed by a wipe with max conc. IPA.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:24:43
+1 for toothbrush,

I have used gasoline (petrol) and works great, although mkawa said something about cancer, so I started using gloves while working with gasoline. But yeah, gasoline followed by a wipe with max conc. IPA.

For the record, this is not recommended.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:30:12
+1 for toothbrush,

I have used gasoline (petrol) and works great, although mkawa said something about cancer, so I started using gloves while working with gasoline. But yeah, gasoline followed by a wipe with max conc. IPA.

What about the smell? Doesn't it linger?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lastpilot on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:32:01
Anyone have a reliable online resource shipping within US for 1% 470 Ohm resistors? Also looking for a place to get SMD led's for NerD 60% PCB's...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Tue, 12 August 2014, 09:33:52
Anyone have a reliable online resource shipping within US for 1% 470 Ohm resistors? Also looking for a place to get SMD led's for NerD 60% PCB's...

Mouser is usually my go-to for electrical components.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 13 August 2014, 10:22:34
What do you guys think of this unit?

http://www.amazon.com/ALL-ONE-X-TRONIC-SOLDERING-PREHEATING/dp/B00DRHRZ3S/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 13 August 2014, 11:04:07
i am VERY down on aoyue and x-tronic. they cheap out on every important component to try to out-bullet-point the competition at their price points. further, you don't need 90% of that stuff. to solder, all you need is a very high quality hot stick. more and you're risking crappy heaters, less and you could injure yourself, frankly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Wed, 13 August 2014, 11:12:42
What do you guys think of this unit?

http://www.amazon.com/ALL-ONE-X-TRONIC-SOLDERING-PREHEATING/dp/B00DRHRZ3S/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
Wow you could even make a grilled cheese sandwich with that thing!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Wed, 13 August 2014, 13:27:36
i am VERY down on aoyue and x-tronic. they cheap out on every important component to try to out-bullet-point the competition at their price points. further, you don't need 90% of that stuff. to solder, all you need is a very high quality hot stick. more and you're risking crappy heaters, less and you could injure yourself, frankly.

Mkawa, in your opinion is these ever a real need for amateurs to use expensive soldering stations?

Here I offer my experiences:

1)   All soldering is done as fast as I can move. Even on my cheapo soldering iron, once its hot and tinned, I can barely pull the solder spool fast enough.
2)   The real problem comes in keeping the tip shiny. I don’t have any idea how to do this well. Thus far I am using sandpaper and Brasso (obviously after the tip cools) but people tell me not to over sand. What will happen if the copper inside is exposed? Shop owners have told me that price of soldering station has nothing to do with the most important component by far, the soldering iron tip.
3)   It is desoldering that leads to tears and frustration for me. It’s hell. It takes multiple tries and lots of solder wick and endless pumps on my soldapullt, and even when a switch looks desoldered it often isn’t. How will an expensive station help?
4)   When soldering small things I feel the challenge doesn’t lie in the soldering station but finding a way to hold the components in place. Again a more expensive station won’t help. Neither will these helping hands.
5)   LEDs and capacitors also give me problems. But powerful heat doesn’t seem to be the solution. I think what I need are sharper tips capable of delivering heat only to the tiny pads. I’m worried about the effects on the PCB after a period of heating.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Wed, 13 August 2014, 14:07:37
2)   The real problem comes in keeping the tip shiny. I don’t have any idea how to do this well. Thus far I am using sandpaper and Brasso (obviously after the tip cools) but people tell me not to over sand.
I have basically no trouble with this using a Hakko 888D and the kit tip it came with. The wet sponge is the most important tool here. Wipe the tip on the sponge very frequently, every time you want to set the iron down. Occasionally adding some solder to the tip and wiping it on the brass sponge gets off slightly more stuck stuff and restores the tip to like-new condition. I don’t think you should ever need to resort to sandpaper.

Quote
3)   It is desoldering that leads to tears and frustration for me. It’s hell. It takes multiple tries and lots of solder wick and endless pumps on my soldapullt, and even when a switch looks desoldered it often isn’t. How will an expensive station help?
What are you desoldering? For desoldering keyboard switches I don’t ever need any solder wick. Just heat the joint with an iron and suck with the soldapullt and BAM. When the switch leads are bent over and pressed down onto the pad, it takes another 2 steps: (1) heat the joint and suck the solder out with soldapullt, (2) heat the bent-over lead and pad and pry the two apart using a dental pick – it’s usually quite easy to get the lead to 'pop' loose of the pad it was stuck to, once most of the solder is gone, (3) bend the lead straight with some pliers.

Quote
4)   When soldering small things I feel the challenge doesn’t lie in the soldering station but finding a way to hold the components in place. Again a more expensive station won’t help. Neither will these helping hands.
Have you tried a panavise?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ninjadoc on Thu, 14 August 2014, 08:33:29
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)


A little heavy on some of the joints, but not bad for a first time.

I just soldered my first board and that was the impression I had of how they should look. Can someone post a picture of how the joints should look? Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:01:02
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)


A little heavy on some of the joints, but not bad for a first time.

I just soldered my first board and that was the impression I had of how they should look. Can someone post a picture of how the joints should look? Thanks


I had the same impression when I started.

Take a look at some of photoelectric's soldering

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/photoelectric_effect/12596084714/in/set-72157640117516876 (https://secure.flickr.com/photos/photoelectric_effect/12596084714/in/set-72157640117516876)

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/photoelectric_effect/13943665963/in/photostream/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lastpilot on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:09:02
 Just tried it out last night. Soldering is really fun :]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nubbinator on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:14:06
How did I do on my first soldering job? Sorry about the mess; I don't have 99% isopropyl alcohol to clean off the flux.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/9xHacFy.jpg)

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/8SqFVap.jpg)


A little heavy on some of the joints, but not bad for a first time.

I just soldered my first board and that was the impression I had of how they should look. Can someone post a picture of how the joints should look? Thanks


I had the same impression when I started.

Take a look at some of photoelectric's soldering

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/photoelectric_effect/12596084714/in/set-72157640117516876 (https://secure.flickr.com/photos/photoelectric_effect/12596084714/in/set-72157640117516876)

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/photoelectric_effect/13943665963/in/photostream/

Those are plated through holes, so that's not really a good example.

I'm still not an expert solderer by any means, but a good solder joint should form a little volcano shape.  The on the left on PB5 and PB7 look like they have just a hair too much solder from the side since they're bulging out.  Nothing bad, just could do a little less.  PB5 looks funky from the top though.  I also can't tell if the one on the left on PB7 is a good joint.  It almost looks like it's cupping in at the bottom and not bonded well to the pad, like it's a cold joint.  The one on the right on PB7 looks like it might need more solder or just needs to be reflowed.

It's really hard to tell from the quality of photo how the joints are.  Like I said though, they don't look like bad solder joints from what I can tell from the photo and PB6 looks spot on from what I can see.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 14 August 2014, 09:35:15
use thinner solder - if your joints are bulging and full of too much solder, use thinner solder.

I use 2 thicknesses of solder - thin for soldering, thick for desoldering.

Thick is great for flooding an area, thin is great for making a joint. Another thing I do, I tend to use a beveled tip for everything now, and generally speaking I load up the tip with solder and keep loading that, then I let it flow into the hole, sometimes I do a quick rotation round the hole to get it all hot and the solder nice. Bah i'm rubbish at explaining but I know what I mean :)

I love bevelled tips, can drag solder with them, load the tip with solder, grab solder off joints with them. I used to be all about the chisel tip.

To answer the questions about desoldering stations above: I have a kind of love hate relationship with mine. I certainly don't think I would do without it since having one, but it costs an awful lot of time and money to keep it operational. Everytime I use it, there is lengthy stripping and cleaning that has to happen afterwards (well, I guess you couldn't but then it might be even more expensive to replace!) and the tips don't have too long a life. some tips I only get 200 goes out of before they start to disintergrate - but as the tips perish I just add more and more solder as a heat bridge, once everything there is hot and melty it sucks it all up. And tips are expensive in the region of £6 each, and yeah, I buy some every month at the moment.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nomaded on Thu, 14 August 2014, 13:05:11
I have soldered and desoldered my matte black gh60 rev.a pcb tons already and managed to clean it up just fine with just q tips and 99% iso.

I had some 91% isopropyl alcohol in the medicine cabinet with some q-tips. I was able to dissolve most of the lumps of flux, but the PCB is not completely clean. I'll probably get some 99% at some point and go over the PCB at some point.

Thanks for the pointers, guys.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 14 August 2014, 13:06:28
use thinner solder - if your joints are bulging and full of too much solder, use thinner solder.

I use 2 thicknesses of solder - thin for soldering, thick for desoldering.

Thick is great for flooding an area, thin is great for making a joint. Another thing I do, I tend to use a beveled tip for everything now, and generally speaking I load up the tip with solder and keep loading that, then I let it flow into the hole, sometimes I do a quick rotation round the hole to get it all hot and the solder nice. Bah i'm rubbish at explaining but I know what I mean :)

I love bevelled tips, can drag solder with them, load the tip with solder, grab solder off joints with them. I used to be all about the chisel tip.

To answer the questions about desoldering stations above: I have a kind of love hate relationship with mine. I certainly don't think I would do without it since having one, but it costs an awful lot of time and money to keep it operational. Everytime I use it, there is lengthy stripping and cleaning that has to happen afterwards (well, I guess you couldn't but then it might be even more expensive to replace!) and the tips don't have too long a life. some tips I only get 200 goes out of before they start to disintergrate - but as the tips perish I just add more and more solder as a heat bridge, once everything there is hot and melty it sucks it all up. And tips are expensive in the region of £6 each, and yeah, I buy some every month at the moment.

Would it help you to buy from Taobao? 6 pounds seem way too much. About 4-5 times as much as prices I've seen on TB IIRC. I wouldn't be saying this if your tips were lasting, but 200 seems ridiculously poor. An amateur like me in a humid place with cheap tips can do better than that so I am wondering if you have the wrong supplier or if I am missing something. I'm still using the same 3 tips (Brassoed and sanded after running into oxidation) after working on several thousand joints. But since I don't live in Europe (ie am not using lead free) that may be the reason for my relative ease.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: WhiteRice on Fri, 15 August 2014, 12:49:32
Does it matter if the leads to the controller come from the top or bottom of the columns?

e.g. opposite of,
(http://i.imgur.com/mF6CAbk.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 15 August 2014, 13:04:41
Does it matter if the leads to the controller come from the top or bottom of the columns?

e.g. opposite of,
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/mF6CAbk.jpg)


The only time it matters is if the diodes are on the columns.  And then all it takes is moving the leads from bottom to tip or vice versa.  This I think is one reason why hand wired keyboards use diodes on the rows.  If you screw up the direction it is much less wires to move.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 15 August 2014, 14:16:30
use thinner solder - if your joints are bulging and full of too much solder, use thinner solder.

I use 2 thicknesses of solder - thin for soldering, thick for desoldering.

Thick is great for flooding an area, thin is great for making a joint. Another thing I do, I tend to use a beveled tip for everything now, and generally speaking I load up the tip with solder and keep loading that, then I let it flow into the hole, sometimes I do a quick rotation round the hole to get it all hot and the solder nice. Bah i'm rubbish at explaining but I know what I mean :)

I love bevelled tips, can drag solder with them, load the tip with solder, grab solder off joints with them. I used to be all about the chisel tip.

To answer the questions about desoldering stations above: I have a kind of love hate relationship with mine. I certainly don't think I would do without it since having one, but it costs an awful lot of time and money to keep it operational. Everytime I use it, there is lengthy stripping and cleaning that has to happen afterwards (well, I guess you couldn't but then it might be even more expensive to replace!) and the tips don't have too long a life. some tips I only get 200 goes out of before they start to disintergrate - but as the tips perish I just add more and more solder as a heat bridge, once everything there is hot and melty it sucks it all up. And tips are expensive in the region of £6 each, and yeah, I buy some every month at the moment.

Would it help you to buy from Taobao? 6 pounds seem way too much. About 4-5 times as much as prices I've seen on TB IIRC. I wouldn't be saying this if your tips were lasting, but 200 seems ridiculously poor. An amateur like me in a humid place with cheap tips can do better than that so I am wondering if you have the wrong supplier or if I am missing something. I'm still using the same 3 tips (Brassoed and sanded after running into oxidation) after working on several thousand joints. But since I don't live in Europe (ie am not using lead free) that may be the reason for my relative ease.

He's talking about tips for a desoldering station, not a soldering iron.  They're expensive and have a terrible lifespan.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 15 August 2014, 15:09:52
Just wanted to mention here that I recently switches from my trusty Hakko FX-888D to a Hakko FP-101. For the hobbyist, the 888 is a great station, and more than you'll probably ever need. But for someone who does a bit more soldering, the (obsolete) FP-101, or its replacement the FX-951, is a nice upgrade. Yes, it retails for $262, but you can definitely tell it's money well spent.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Sat, 16 August 2014, 02:40:09
Just wanted to mention here that I recently switches from my trusty Hakko FX-888D to a Hakko FP-101. For the hobbyist, the 888 is a great station, and more than you'll probably ever need. But for someone who does a bit more soldering, the (obsolete) FP-101, or its replacement the FX-951, is a nice upgrade. Yes, it retails for $262, but you can definitely tell it's money well spent.

Nice! Can't really get very much hakko stuff over here, Photek managed to find a supplier but it's really ££££.

I have been on the lookout for a new station for a while. I half want a metcal ps900, I used the sp200 and I didn't like that, but I had a go on a ps900 recently and it rocked my world! just a whole lot of money. But the shortlist is currently metcal or an edsyn station, 2020 maybe.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Sat, 16 August 2014, 09:21:39


He's talking about tips for a desoldering station, not a soldering iron.  They're expensive and have a terrible lifespan.

Do you mind enlightening me about soldering stations? I am quite the noob. You see, I am starting to do more soldering and actually just ordered a low end set of soldering tweezers which at $49 shipped are nothing compared with what a pro might use but which of course cost a fortune considering all my 3 soldering irons together don’t cost so much. Of course I was also starting to cast my eyes on the stations since you pros talk so much about them.

Why would a pro want to use something that costs so much more to maintain? Is it because of the lead free solder? I spend 3 seconds on each solder joint so if a pro can spend 1 second per joint I can see the reason for buying expensive tips. But remember, I am always using leaded.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 16 August 2014, 09:30:53
Just wanted to mention here that I recently switches from my trusty Hakko FX-888D to a Hakko FP-101. For the hobbyist, the 888 is a great station, and more than you'll probably ever need. But for someone who does a bit more soldering, the (obsolete) FP-101, or its replacement the FX-951, is a nice upgrade. Yes, it retails for $262, but you can definitely tell it's money well spent.
the 888 series really really shows the cost cutting hakko put into it. any of the midgrade stations or assembly line classics (weller wes51d, hakko 936 (NOT AOYUE OR OTHER CHINESE CLONE) and edsyn 951 series) are much much sturdier, safer and just better stations to use.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 16 August 2014, 09:38:37
Just wanted to mention here that I recently switches from my trusty Hakko FX-888D to a Hakko FP-101. For the hobbyist, the 888 is a great station, and more than you'll probably ever need. But for someone who does a bit more soldering, the (obsolete) FP-101, or its replacement the FX-951, is a nice upgrade. Yes, it retails for $262, but you can definitely tell it's money well spent.

Does that one have the quick change tips with different colors for different sizes?

And the more comfortable handle design.

I've enjoyed my edsyn 951sxe so far, using it alongside the hakko 808.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 16 August 2014, 09:49:12
Just wanted to mention here that I recently switches from my trusty Hakko FX-888D to a Hakko FP-101. For the hobbyist, the 888 is a great station, and more than you'll probably ever need. But for someone who does a bit more soldering, the (obsolete) FP-101, or its replacement the FX-951, is a nice upgrade. Yes, it retails for $262, but you can definitely tell it's money well spent.

Does that one have the quick change tips with different colors for different sizes?

And the more comfortable handle design.

I've enjoyed my edsyn 951sxe so far, using it alongside the hakko 808.


Yes, you can buy the grips in different colors, and its the part that locks the tip into the handle, with a quick release. The handle is much more comfortable than the one from the 888, and just feels more natural in the hand.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 16 August 2014, 13:06:42
Just wanted to mention here that I recently switches from my trusty Hakko FX-888D to a Hakko FP-101. For the hobbyist, the 888 is a great station, and more than you'll probably ever need. But for someone who does a bit more soldering, the (obsolete) FP-101, or its replacement the FX-951, is a nice upgrade. Yes, it retails for $262, but you can definitely tell it's money well spent.
For that price you can (alternatively) upgrade again to metcal PS900 (http://www.amazon.com/Metcal-Soldering-Station-PS-900/dp/B00170WOXS) with smartheat. This is the newest version of my "daily" station and it's amazing. It is 90W (60W to the iron) so it responds extremely quickly to temperature / thermal load changes. This means it heats up in about 8 seconds. I can change tips in about a second (maybe 2 if I miss the heater first try :P )

I got mine used on eBay for much less than MSRP. It's not as good as my pace MBT250, buot that thing retails for about $1400 so it's in an entirely different class.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Sun, 17 August 2014, 01:56:05


He's talking about tips for a desoldering station, not a soldering iron.  They're expensive and have a terrible lifespan.

Do you mind enlightening me about soldering stations? I am quite the noob. You see, I am starting to do more soldering and actually just ordered a low end set of soldering tweezers which at $49 shipped are nothing compared with what a pro might use but which of course cost a fortune considering all my 3 soldering irons together don’t cost so much. Of course I was also starting to cast my eyes on the stations since you pros talk so much about them.

Why would a pro want to use something that costs so much more to maintain? Is it because of the lead free solder? I spend 3 seconds on each solder joint so if a pro can spend 1 second per joint I can see the reason for buying expensive tips. But remember, I am always using leaded.

it's DEsoldering station - it is a unit with a bellow pump in it and then there is a gun shaped hand held - it has a massive tip on the end that has a hole in it, different tips have different sized holes - you use some solder and stick the tip over a through-hole solder joint, heat it through and suck the solder out. The problem is this is not good for the tips, they get gauged and bashed frequently by component legs, you can't tin the end at all really because of the shape, and after a while the tip between the hole and the outside of the tip starts to disintergrate - the more the hole loses it's integrity right at the end the worse your thermal interface becomes, and then you have to add more and more solder as a heat bridge or you start to mess up pcbs or just have crap desoldering abilities. It's worth it - becuase when really concentrating you can desolder a full 105 board in about 15 - 20 minutes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Sun, 17 August 2014, 06:49:12


Why would a pro want to use something that costs so much more to maintain? Is it because of the lead free solder? I spend 3 seconds on each solder joint so if a pro can spend 1 second per joint I can see the reason for buying expensive tips. But remember, I am always using leaded.

it's DEsoldering station - it is a unit with a bellow pump in it and then there is a gun shaped hand held - it has a massive tip on the end that has a hole in it, different tips have different sized holes - you use some solder and stick the tip over a through-hole solder joint, heat it through and suck the solder out. The problem is this is not good for the tips, they get gauged and bashed frequently by component legs, you can't tin the end at all really because of the shape, and after a while the tip between the hole and the outside of the tip starts to disintergrate - the more the hole loses it's integrity right at the end the worse your thermal interface becomes, and then you have to add more and more solder as a heat bridge or you start to mess up pcbs or just have crap desoldering abilities. It's worth it - becuase when really concentrating you can desolder a full 105 board in about 15 - 20 minutes.
[/quote]

Now everything makes sense!

The tip would definitely cost far more since it has a much more complicated shape/ harder to make.

It would die more easily because it is so much harder to tin properly.

But 'bashed by component legs'? You're not talking about keyboards alone are you? Because I can see that happening with some components, but not Cherry MX switch legs or LEDs in general.

Desoldering is definitely a huge pain for double sided PCB. But that speed suggests you need maybe 750 seconds for 420 joints, which means 1.6 seconds per joint. It's undoubtedly a big boon.

I still see no reason for people to spend too much money on their soldering stations though. If we're talking keyboards or the PCBs we can see in daily life eg TV, monitor, computer, how often do we really get big solder joints? Most of the time it's more like frustratingly teeny weeny joints that require teeny weeny tips and presumably very little heat, 20w or whatever, just because the pads are so tiny. Why would pros want to apply powerful heat to joints the size of a teensy pad for instance? I personally (from disastrous teensy experience) would prefer a very agile/small tip, power below 30w, and to use a 0.5mm or smaller solder wire on most of the joints that I will ever need to solder in a modern household.

being a noob my experience doesn't count for much. I'm just wanting to hear what the pros think. Their reasoning must be right -but why is it right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 17 August 2014, 07:07:46


Why would a pro want to use something that costs so much more to maintain? Is it because of the lead free solder? I spend 3 seconds on each solder joint so if a pro can spend 1 second per joint I can see the reason for buying expensive tips. But remember, I am always using leaded.

it's DEsoldering station - it is a unit with a bellow pump in it and then there is a gun shaped hand held - it has a massive tip on the end that has a hole in it, different tips have different sized holes - you use some solder and stick the tip over a through-hole solder joint, heat it through and suck the solder out. The problem is this is not good for the tips, they get gauged and bashed frequently by component legs, you can't tin the end at all really because of the shape, and after a while the tip between the hole and the outside of the tip starts to disintergrate - the more the hole loses it's integrity right at the end the worse your thermal interface becomes, and then you have to add more and more solder as a heat bridge or you start to mess up pcbs or just have crap desoldering abilities. It's worth it - becuase when really concentrating you can desolder a full 105 board in about 15 - 20 minutes.

Now everything makes sense!

The tip would definitely cost far more since it has a much more complicated shape/ harder to make.

It would die more easily because it is so much harder to tin properly.

But 'bashed by component legs'? You're not talking about keyboards alone are you? Because I can see that happening with some components, but not Cherry MX switch legs or LEDs in general.

Desoldering is definitely a huge pain for double sided PCB. But that speed suggests you need maybe 750 seconds for 420 joints, which means 1.6 seconds per joint. It's undoubtedly a big boon.

I still see no reason for people to spend too much money on their soldering stations though. If we're talking keyboards or the PCBs we can see in daily life eg TV, monitor, computer, how often do we really get big solder joints? Most of the time it's more like frustratingly teeny weeny joints that require teeny weeny tips and presumably very little heat, 20w or whatever, just because the pads are so tiny. Why would pros want to apply powerful heat to joints the size of a teensy pad for instance? I personally (from disastrous teensy experience) would prefer a very agile/small tip, power below 30w, and to use a 0.5mm or smaller solder wire on most of the joints that I will ever need to solder in a modern household.

being a noob my experience doesn't count for much. I'm just wanting to hear what the pros think. Their reasoning must be right -but why is it right?
[/quote]

It is difficult for me to explain but search swipe technique for smd on YouTube.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Mon, 18 August 2014, 00:29:33
It is difficult for me to explain but search swipe technique for smd on YouTube.

I never got that to work, instead I take a thin tip and solder every pin individually. If I want to go faster / higher production, I'd buy a toaster oven and paste.

That said, they make huge knife blade soldering tips for that technique.
(http://www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/1121-0305-P1.jpg)

Here's my take on soldering stations, cross posted from another topic:
Quote
Soldering stations: Well it really depends. See, you can solder with just a cheap iron. A big expensive station makes it easier. I like temperature-sensing stations (like PACE sensatemp and OKI / Metcal smartheat). They sense the thermal load on the tip and respond accordingly. Since it's backed by 60 W - 130 W it responds really quick. This means it heats up in less than 10 seconds and also melts joints quickly (even if they are on ground plane.) But the best part about it, is also the part that makes them ideal for line soldering is that they heat up pretty much any joint in exactly the same amount of time. This means you know when the joint will melt before it does and can keep heat off it for longer. This is the part that makes it a lot easier for me, and why I recommend such systems, especially over a temperature adjustable one. Good stations usually have a lot more and better tips available. Good tips can also last a lot longer. My cheapie iron tip lasted like a year of minimal use. My "good" metcal tips have lasted several years of good use, and the temperature shock of thousands of desoldered joints. It has some oxidation away from the tinned-area, but the tinned area is thick and bright and as shiny as they day I got it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 18 August 2014, 06:05:24
prefer slide soldering with cupped tips for hand smd
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 21 August 2014, 06:07:05
I think the cupped tips are called gulwing aren't they? I manage just fine with bevelled tip, even without the dish you can load up the flat side with ample solder to drag over the ic legs, or likewise it can hold ample solder to dump on pads. I hate hand soldering smd, I only really do it for touch up or repair, most times I smd solder with paste and hot air.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Thu, 21 August 2014, 17:27:27
To refer soldering tip shapes unambiguously is sometime difficult, to me at least. So I made this table with hoping it helps myself and others somewhat. Let me know if you find something wrong or missing.

Soldering tip shapes:
hakkowellermetcaledsynpacejbcdescription
B (http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_b.html)conicalconicalconicalconical-standard cone
C/BC (http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_bc_c.html)spadebevelangle facebevel-beveled cone
D (http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_d.html)chiselchiselspadechisel-screw driver
CM/BCM (http://www.hakko.com/english/tip_selection/type_bcm_cm.html)gull winghoofmini-flowmini-wavemini spoonbeveled with hollow, dimple or cup
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Mon, 25 August 2014, 08:25:57
I had something a little strange happen while soldering yesterday. There were 2 pins, out of 24 total on an IC, that I just couldn't get - the solder would find its way to, and then stick to, the tip of the soldering iron. The other 22 went fine.

I made sure I was giving it enough heat, and tried adding flux, but neither did the trick.

There's a lot of flux gunk there (and there already was before I added more) so I'm going to pick up some 99% isopropyl alcohol and try cleaning the area with that.

Any suggestions for what else I should try?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 25 August 2014, 08:39:39
I had something a little strange happen while soldering yesterday. There were 2 pins, out of 24 total on an IC, that I just couldn't get - the solder would find its way to, and then stick to, the tip of the soldering iron. The other 22 went fine.

I made sure I was giving it enough heat, and tried adding flux, but neither did the trick.

There's a lot of flux gunk there (and there already was before I added more) so I'm going to pick up some 99% isopropyl alcohol and try cleaning the area with that.

Any suggestions for what else I should try?

Could they be corrosion? If it is the case, you can use sand paper or a mini hand file to clean the rusty away.
There could also be some kind of chemical substances that prevent the flux flow into those position. So that you can use 99% isopropyl alcohol that you are going to have to clean.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Mon, 25 August 2014, 13:21:04
I had something a little strange happen while soldering yesterday. There were 2 pins, out of 24 total on an IC, that I just couldn't get - the solder would find its way to, and then stick to, the tip of the soldering iron. The other 22 went fine.

I made sure I was giving it enough heat, and tried adding flux, but neither did the trick.

There's a lot of flux gunk there (and there already was before I added more) so I'm going to pick up some 99% isopropyl alcohol and try cleaning the area with that.

Any suggestions for what else I should try?

Make sure your tip is shiny, too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Mon, 25 August 2014, 15:34:24
Could they be corrosion? If it is the case, you can use sand paper or a mini hand file to clean the rusty away.
There could also be some kind of chemical substances that prevent the flux flow into those position. So that you can use 99% isopropyl alcohol that you are going to have to clean.

I wouldn't have thought so (it's straight out of the box and looked clean), but maybe it's "new old stock" or something. I'll definitely try cleaning it.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Mon, 25 August 2014, 15:38:31
Make sure your tip is shiny, too.

Good point. I think it was in good shape, but I may not have been paying enough attention. I'll check it out and clean it again. Thanks

Another weird thing is that I was able to to go do some other joints, which worked fine, but then came back to these two, and still wasn't able to do them. Very frustrating.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 27 August 2014, 06:43:33
I need some good insulated wires to solder together two points.  My googling skills seem to be awful for finding these wires.  Can anybody point me to some decent, durable, insulated wires?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 27 August 2014, 08:27:06
you're looking for hook-up wire. for small orders, jameco, parts express, and actually ebay are all good choices. 22ga is a standard size for low current electronics applications. 18ga is for power applications, and 14+ga is for very very high power (> 5A through a single wire) applications
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 27 August 2014, 10:21:03
you're looking for hook-up wire. for small orders, jameco, parts express, and actually ebay are all good choices. 22ga is a standard size for low current electronics applications. 18ga is for power applications, and 14+ga is for very very high power (> 5A through a single wire) applications

Thanks.  I need them for a Model F ribbon cable replacement.  You think low current will be fine?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 27 August 2014, 11:46:04
for ribbon cables, you need to buy ribbon replacements and crimp on the connectors. you want the same size that you took out, usually each wire in the ribbon is 22ga and the connectors are referred to as IDC-X for x pins. it's specifically ribbon cable you want though. hookup wire is individual wires, either made of stranded copper or solid, depending on how flexible you want the wire to be.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 27 August 2014, 12:07:29
for ribbon cables, you need to buy ribbon replacements and crimp on the connectors. you want the same size that you took out, usually each wire in the ribbon is 22ga and the connectors are referred to as IDC-X for x pins. it's specifically ribbon cable you want though. hookup wire is individual wires, either made of stranded copper or solid, depending on how flexible you want the wire to be.

But, that said, ribbon cable is really just a bunch of wires glued/melted together, so you *could* accomplish the same thing with a bunch of wires next to eachother, which I believe is what he has in mind.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Wed, 27 August 2014, 14:59:40
for ribbon cables, you need to buy ribbon replacements and crimp on the connectors. you want the same size that you took out, usually each wire in the ribbon is 22ga and the connectors are referred to as IDC-X for x pins. it's specifically ribbon cable you want though. hookup wire is individual wires, either made of stranded copper or solid, depending on how flexible you want the wire to be.

But, that said, ribbon cable is really just a bunch of wires glued/melted together, so you *could* accomplish the same thing with a bunch of wires next to eachother, which I believe is what he has in mind.

Well, xwhatsit replaced his ribbon cable on this Model F with individual wires, and seemed to work fine.  I liked the look and flexibility of that rather than the cumbersome ribbon cable, which really *crimps* my style.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 27 August 2014, 22:12:21
for ribbon cables, you need to buy ribbon replacements and crimp on the connectors. you want the same size that you took out, usually each wire in the ribbon is 22ga and the connectors are referred to as IDC-X for x pins. it's specifically ribbon cable you want though. hookup wire is individual wires, either made of stranded copper or solid, depending on how flexible you want the wire to be.

But, that said, ribbon cable is really just a bunch of wires glued/melted together, so you *could* accomplish the same thing with a bunch of wires next to eachother, which I believe is what he has in mind.

Well, xwhatsit replaced his ribbon cable on this Model F with individual wires, and seemed to work fine.  I liked the look and flexibility of that rather than the cumbersome ribbon cable, which really *crimps* my style.

Yeah, there's absolutely no difference between the two in terms of functionality.  Longevity and durability?  Possibly.

Perhaps I shouldn't have put the word "could" in asterisks, as you definitely can, with no need to imply that it's a stretch.  I was simply speaking to the fact that the ribbon cable might be cleaner and a more "proper" way to do it.

But anyway, yeah, individual wires are totally fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 28 August 2014, 01:35:47
IDCs are just easier to crimp on to ribbons. otherwise there's no real difference.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: madik on Fri, 29 August 2014, 07:27:38
Guys how difficult is un-soldering Cherry MX plate mounted switches from board? I would be using pen soldering iron and standalone desoldering pump. Does it goes easy or it sucks balls?
thanks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vvp on Fri, 29 August 2014, 10:06:57
If your PCB has round holes for switch pins then it will be very easy. The pins are rectangular and to fit round holes the holes must be big. The difference in the cross section area between pin and the hole makes it easy to desolder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: madik on Fri, 29 August 2014, 10:24:22
If your PCB has round holes for switch pins then it will be very easy. The pins are rectangular and to fit round holes the holes must be big. The difference in the cross section area between pin and the hole makes it easy to desolder.

I aint sure right now. I thinking about getting Cherry G80-3000 with Clear switches and desoldering them. It would be cheaper than buying standalone switches from groupbuy on DT. Here are few pictures how the PCB looks like http://deskthority.net/review-f45/cherry-g80-3000lqceu-0-with-mx-clear-switches-review-t1817.html

Oh its PCB mounted. My mistake. So this mean it will be twice as many pins to un-solder ?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vvp on Fri, 29 August 2014, 11:23:50
I do not know that board.

I know only one board for switch de-soldering: the lowest model of TESORO Durandal. It had plate mounted switches, big holes and it was a piece of cake to pull them out. About 15-20 seconds per switch. Switches and keycaps were salvaged. The rest finished in garbage bin.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 29 August 2014, 13:01:58
Guys how difficult is un-soldering Cherry MX plate mounted switches from board? I would be using pen soldering iron and standalone desoldering pump. Does it goes easy or it sucks balls?
thanks.

That depends solely on your pump.  Clones work way worse than real soldapullts.

Also, where are you located?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: madik on Fri, 29 August 2014, 13:12:35
Guys how difficult is un-soldering Cherry MX plate mounted switches from board? I would be using pen soldering iron and standalone desoldering pump. Does it goes easy or it sucks balls?
thanks.

That depends solely on your pump.  Clones work way worse than real soldapullts.

Also, where are you located?

Its in my profile. I don't have a pump yet. Was looking at buying something like this
(http://images.ges.cz/images/pictures/v/vtd1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 29 August 2014, 13:53:10
Guys how difficult is un-soldering Cherry MX plate mounted switches from board? I would be using pen soldering iron and standalone desoldering pump. Does it goes easy or it sucks balls?
thanks.

That depends solely on your pump.  Clones work way worse than real soldapullts.

Also, where are you located?

Its in my profile. I don't have a pump yet. Was looking at buying something like this
Show Image
(http://images.ges.cz/images/pictures/v/vtd1.jpg)


Contact mkawa.  He's an edsyn dealer and can get you a decent desoldering set up
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zennasyndroxx on Sat, 30 August 2014, 12:59:46
Any tips on cleaning solder flux? I'm using the kester solder from geekhackers. Water should be just fine right? What about non kester solder? I'll need isopropyl?

Also, is this solder station alright?

http://sra-solder.com/product.php/7221/1/aoyue_469/234aef7a355be6bcbb0292b9609e3f66
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: uns211 on Sat, 30 August 2014, 18:40:09
Thanks everyone for your criticism on my soldering! I decided to get a few things:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZhsTLd1.jpg)

Before I was using a Weller SP25NUS (don't hate, my dad couldn't find his WES51 and bought it for me):
(http://i.imgur.com/0u1J06K.jpg)

How's this? PD3/4/6 look the same. If it's bad, I can get more practice with the Soldapullt.
(http://i.imgur.com/okO2k5W.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sat, 30 August 2014, 19:12:44
Any tips on cleaning solder flux? I'm using the kester solder from geekhackers. Water should be just fine right? What about non kester solder? I'll need isopropyl?

Also, is this solder station alright?

http://sra-solder.com/product.php/7221/1/aoyue_469/234aef7a355be6bcbb0292b9609e3f66

Normally, for any rosin core solder, you may need isopropyl to clean flux residue. Don't use water because it is slow in evaporation which is not good for metal contact. Water is also has very low viscosity and it may leak into your switch and lead to future problem like corrosion.

Regarding the Aoyue 469 station, it is a 70w soldering station. It could be good enough for soldering keyboard. However, you may want to buy a more reliable one from Edsyn or Hakko.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zennasyndroxx on Sat, 30 August 2014, 20:36:13
Any tips on cleaning solder flux? I'm using the kester solder from geekhackers. Water should be just fine right? What about non kester solder? I'll need isopropyl?

Also, is this solder station alright?

http://sra-solder.com/product.php/7221/1/aoyue_469/234aef7a355be6bcbb0292b9609e3f66

Normally, for any rosin core solder, you may need isopropyl to clean flux residue. Don't use water because it is slow in evaporation which is not good for metal contact. Water is also has very low viscosity and it may leak into your switch and lead to future problem like corrosion.

Regarding the Aoyue 469 station, it is a 70w soldering station. It could be good enough for soldering keyboard. However, you may want to buy a more reliable one from Edsyn or Hakko.

The aoyue station is a good deal. So 70w is the optimum wattage for soldering keyboard switches, diodes and even resistors?

Also, isopropyl. I'll have to dab some isopropyl into a cloth and wipe it right? Or do I have to pour an amount to the board and wipe it off
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sun, 31 August 2014, 03:52:29
The aoyue station is a good deal. So 70w is the optimum wattage for soldering keyboard switches, diodes and even resistors?

Also, isopropyl. I'll have to dab some isopropyl into a cloth and wipe it right? Or do I have to pour an amount to the board and wipe it off

Yes, you are right, you can dab some isopropyl into a cloth and wipe it or use cotton swab (e.g. Q-tips) to do so.
Considering aoyue could be good enough for the job but I'm pretty sure that you will find out that Edsyn, Hakko or Goot are better in term of temperature precision and tip reliability.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sun, 31 August 2014, 09:52:09
I bought one of those knock off brand stations and it broke in the first 1/2 dozen times I used it.

I ended up getting a Hakko and am happy with it. For this type of soldering it does everything I need. Quick heat up (so I can just turn it off if I am not using it) and the tip temp is pretty consistent.  I would probably buy an edsyn or matcal (sp) if I upgraded from this. I would only upgrade if I was using it more than a couple times a week.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Mon, 01 September 2014, 10:55:39
Any tips on cleaning solder flux? I'm using the kester solder from geekhackers. Water should be just fine right? What about non kester solder? I'll need isopropyl?

Also, is this solder station alright?

http://sra-solder.com/product.php/7221/1/aoyue_469/234aef7a355be6bcbb0292b9609e3f66

Normally, for any rosin core solder, you may need isopropyl to clean flux residue. Don't use water because it is slow in evaporation which is not good for metal contact. Water is also has very low viscosity and it may leak into your switch and lead to future problem like corrosion.

Regarding the Aoyue 469 station, it is a 70w soldering station. It could be good enough for soldering keyboard. However, you may want to buy a more reliable one from Edsyn or Hakko.

The aoyue station is a good deal. So 70w is the optimum wattage for soldering keyboard switches, diodes and even resistors?

Also, isopropyl. I'll have to dab some isopropyl into a cloth and wipe it right? Or do I have to pour an amount to the board and wipe it off

70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 02 September 2014, 17:19:38
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?   
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Tue, 02 September 2014, 18:10:20
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?

I bought an "ESDProduct Rubber Mat" and have been happy with it, but I'll admit that it's probably overkill.

This is the one I'm using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009WUI5SS/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vivalarevolución on Tue, 02 September 2014, 18:58:00
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?

I bought an "ESDProduct Rubber Mat" and have been happy with it, but I'll admit that it's probably overkill.

This is the one I'm using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009WUI5SS/

Yea, I have seen that one floating around in my basic searches.   It has a combination of anti-staticness and high heat tolerance.  A little pricey, though, but I may have to spend if I want that combo.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 02 September 2014, 19:00:56
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?

Nothing.  It is an old computer desk that has a keyboard tray that is to narrow, and a desk top that is to narrow for my pair of monitors while being able to keep the left one centered on the desk.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jbm on Tue, 02 September 2014, 19:01:37
I don't know if it just started, or I just started noticing, but yesterday there was flux shooting off my solder while I was working and landing a couple inches away.

I couldn't find anything online, but part of me is wondering if this means my iron is too hot. I have it set to an appropriate temperature (660F, using Kester 44 63/37) but maybe it's poorly calibrated.

Can anyone confirm whether the flying flux is expected?

By the way, yesterday I (successfully!) finished building my ErgoDox. Very rewarding.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Wed, 03 September 2014, 03:37:28
70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Just curious, what's the advantage of leaded solder?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 03 September 2014, 06:46:15
70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Just curious, what's the advantage of leaded solder?

Lower melting point, more consistent I think, and easier to desolder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Wed, 03 September 2014, 08:43:07
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?

I use a rubber/plastic desk protector from ikea, i think it cost me about a fiver and is pretty big, I have a couple of them. I also have a plumbers soldering mat that I put down on the top of it if I am doing any work with hot air as that is heat proof and stops the plastic mat from melting :D for just normal soldering I just work straight on the plastic mat, which I probably wouldn't suggest doing unless you are decent at soldering as it's not at all heat proof!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Wed, 03 September 2014, 08:45:30
70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Just curious, what's the advantage of leaded solder?

Lower melting point, more consistent I think, and easier to desolder.

Just going to elaborate on this.  With unleaded solder and leaded solder that has more than 63%lead it is actually possible to melt the solder but not get it hot enough to bond with anything.  I forget what the term for that is right now but 63/27 bind as soon as it melts. 

Plus when using leaded solder it melts at a significantly lower temp which results is less chance of damage to the board with a properly set iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Wed, 03 September 2014, 08:50:54
70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Just curious, what's the advantage of leaded solder?

Lower melting point, more consistent I think, and easier to desolder.

Just going to elaborate on this.  With unleaded solder and leaded solder that has more than 63%lead it is actually possible to melt the solder but not get it hot enough to bond with anything.  I forget what the term for that is right now but 63/27 bind as soon as it melts. 

Plus when using leaded solder it melts at a significantly lower temp which results is less chance of damage to the board with a properly set iron.

Thanks for the answers guys. Glad I get a spool of leaded solder from Geekhackers.org. I use a normal solder when I assemble my sprit 60% and I do agree it needs higher temp to melt and I have damage some joints when I try to desolder some of the switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Wed, 03 September 2014, 09:02:06
70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Just curious, what's the advantage of leaded solder?

Lower melting point, more consistent I think, and easier to desolder.

Just going to elaborate on this.  With unleaded solder and leaded solder that has more than 63%lead it is actually possible to melt the solder but not get it hot enough to bond with anything.  I forget what the term for that is right now but 63/27 bind as soon as it melts. 

Plus when using leaded solder it melts at a significantly lower temp which results is less chance of damage to the board with a properly set iron.

Thanks for the answers guys. Glad I get a spool of leaded solder from Geekhackers.org. I use a normal solder when I assemble my sprit 60% and I do agree it needs higher temp to melt and I have damage some joints when I try to desolder some of the switch.

I think it has been suggested that when desoldering to add some new solder first to help.  I'm sure Mkawa or someone else can elaborate on that better.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 03 September 2014, 09:51:50
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?   

I use this one here (seller has pretty much any size):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271293311825

It's definitely a top quality rubber mat. You can get an idea on how better rubber mats are from
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 03 September 2014, 10:03:52
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?

ESD rubber mat would be great. However, it is quite expensive. Besides, you should only consider this when you have all of your tools are ESD. In that cases, you may need to invest a big amount of $$$ for ESD soldering station, ESD pliers, ESD screwdrivers, etc.

In my case, I just buy a simple A0 Cutting Mat like this :
(http://enhance-php.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cutting+mat.jpg)
It works out of the box.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Wed, 03 September 2014, 10:40:23
70w is ample load, especially for leaded solder. 30 - 35w is all that is needed for leaded solder.

Just curious, what's the advantage of leaded solder?

Lower melting point, more consistent I think, and easier to desolder.

Just going to elaborate on this.  With unleaded solder and leaded solder that has more than 63%lead it is actually possible to melt the solder but not get it hot enough to bond with anything.  I forget what the term for that is right now but 63/27 bind as soon as it melts. 

Plus when using leaded solder it melts at a significantly lower temp which results is less chance of damage to the board with a properly set iron.

I think the word is Euteric - maybe.

I don't really like 63/37 blends, or kester, even though everyone on here raves about it! Might just be due to the way I solder, 60/40 I find flows a little better than 63/37. I guess it's all preference at the end of the day :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 05 September 2014, 12:16:18
Here's a new problem.

While desoldering recently I caused some solder to bubble and pop. Solder flew out. I didn't notice it at that time but later realized that some solder had landed on my daily driver keyboard sitting about 80cm away from where I was desoldering. Now how do I remove that little splash of solder without damaging my custom paint job?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 05 September 2014, 12:37:56
Here's a new problem.

While desoldering recently I caused some solder to bubble and pop. Solder flew out. I didn't notice it at that time but later realized that some solder had landed on my daily driver keyboard sitting about 80cm away from where I was desoldering. Now how do I remove that little splash of solder without damaging my custom paint job?

It should be able to just flake off, assuming the case is metal.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: absyrd on Fri, 05 September 2014, 18:02:28
I just got my first kit from mkawa and I'm having fun already. However, I've already run into a problem. Any help would be appreciated! Please see here for pics:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60532.msg1461886#msg1461886


Nevermind. Fixed.  ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Tue, 09 September 2014, 12:56:07
Is there somewhere I can buy a separate temperature control unit for an iron without one?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Tue, 09 September 2014, 13:05:36
Is there somewhere I can buy a separate temperature control unit for an iron without one?

I don't think that's possible as the temperature sensor is in the iron itself.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hwood34 on Wed, 10 September 2014, 17:20:47
Is there somewhere I can buy a separate temperature control unit for an iron without one?

I don't think that's possible as the temperature sensor is in the iron itself.
maybe just something to directly control power output, then I could gauge temperature myself?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 10 September 2014, 21:32:46
use the tip to control power output. remember, the power output _to the joint_ is proportional to the cross-section of metal in contact and the thermal resistance of that mechanical joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Thu, 18 September 2014, 03:49:17
I got this Hakko hollowed tip finally, it is nice for SMT hand soldering. This tip has stronger surface tension of solder due to its concave so that it is easier to drag solder QFP and make good filet than normal chisel and beveled tip.

If you have a problem on SMT hand soldering I can recommend it.

Normal 3mm beveled tip and 2mm hollowed tip(900M-T-2CM).
(http://i.imgur.com/B1m9rSb.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: skottr on Sat, 20 September 2014, 12:02:00
I did some searching on the forum, but didn't quite find any extra info, so thought this would be a good spot to ask.

I've seen the 'Hard-Wiring How-To', but was hoping to find more information/explanation on hard-wiring. Do you know of any other posts/sites/etc. that go deeper into explaining hard-wiring? New to soldering and keyboard creation, so just wanting a bit more in-depth info if it's available.

Thanks in advance for any info!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Sat, 20 September 2014, 12:09:00
The concept of hardwiring is simple: you create a keyboard matrix by wiring some contacts together and attach that to a controller, for example a Teensy. The controller then reads the matrix, recognizes which key was pressed and sends that to the computer.
If you want to know how a keyboard matrix works, I would recommend you this article by komar007: http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 20 September 2014, 12:19:14
I did some searching on the forum, but didn't quite find any extra info, so thought this would be a good spot to ask.

I've seen the 'Hard-Wiring How-To', but was hoping to find more information/explanation on hard-wiring. Do you know of any other posts/sites/etc. that go deeper into explaining hard-wiring? New to soldering and keyboard creation, so just wanting a bit more in-depth info if it's available.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Here is one of the first guides
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0

some new tips:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

For the matrix circuit, I like this page
http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: skottr on Sat, 20 September 2014, 21:53:01
Here is one of the first guides
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=20898.0

some new tips:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/brownfox-step-by-step-t6050.html

For the matrix circuit, I like this page
http://www.dribin.org/dave/keyboard/one_html/

The concept of hardwiring is simple: you create a keyboard matrix by wiring some contacts together and attach that to a controller, for example a Teensy. The controller then reads the matrix, recognizes which key was pressed and sends that to the computer.
If you want to know how a keyboard matrix works, I would recommend you this article by komar007: http://blog.komar.be/how-to-make-a-keyboard-the-matrix/

Thanks, guys! I'm completely new to the electronic side of fabrication, so I'm reading everything I can get my hands on. I appreciate the links!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 22 September 2014, 18:12:21
Hey, I'm sure that this topic has been covered somewhere on this forum, but I could not find not on the search function. 

What do you guys use for a soldering mat to protect your table?   
http://www.mcmaster.com/#carbon-fiber-fabric/=tu7tt6

underneath the carbon fiber textile, i highly recommend using a sheet of insulation. the cheapest thin insulation is fiberglass sheeting:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#fiberglass-fabric/=tu7uc7

the acrylic coated stuff is going to be the least toxic. if you want to get really fancy, get 2mm aerogel

http://www.pacorinc.com/standard-length-aerogel-insulation/try1-sample-kit

you want the 2mm pyrogel 2250. the 5 and 10mm are overkill and have poor compression set characteristics.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Mon, 22 September 2014, 18:27:39
i use a piece of cardboard -_-

amiduingitrong?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Mon, 22 September 2014, 21:16:28
Or a baking mat? I think WFD uses this in his youtube vids - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LUYK1I/ref=s9_simh_se_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=search-desktop-advertising-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0W9GMPTRKJF1R7QTKB2A&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1912906122&pf_rd_i=SAINTOGRAPH%20cutting%20mat (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LUYK1I/ref=s9_simh_se_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=search-desktop-advertising-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0W9GMPTRKJF1R7QTKB2A&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1912906122&pf_rd_i=SAINTOGRAPH%20cutting%20mat)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 23 September 2014, 09:26:00
silicone melts at 200c
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BlueBär on Tue, 23 September 2014, 09:45:21
Or a baking mat? I think WFD uses this in his youtube vids - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LUYK1I/ref=s9_simh_se_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=search-desktop-advertising-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0W9GMPTRKJF1R7QTKB2A&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1912906122&pf_rd_i=SAINTOGRAPH%20cutting%20mat (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LUYK1I/ref=s9_simh_se_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=search-desktop-advertising-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=0W9GMPTRKJF1R7QTKB2A&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1912906122&pf_rd_i=SAINTOGRAPH%20cutting%20mat)

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Tue, 23 September 2014, 10:21:41
silicone melts at 200c

ah, thanks for that...for $8 it's still better than what I currently have, which is nothing, lol.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Tue, 23 September 2014, 11:38:45
i'm obviously biased here, but to present a factual point, a temperature controlled iron used with 63/37 kester 44 gets set to 350C and never moves from that temperature.

also, my 80$ kit comes with a stand (edsyn IP491).

but, as levar burton once said, you don't have to take my word for it. *cue reading rainbow outro*

Just to confirm, if I'm only using the iron for soldering keyboards and such, the constant temp of the CL1481 should be sufficient then?

How do i find the operating temp of the CL1481 from the range Edysn specifies here? thanks

"Temp Range: 400°F-800°F/205°C-427°C" from: http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481.html (http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481.html)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cooldiscretion on Tue, 23 September 2014, 12:04:20
Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BakaPhoenix on Thu, 25 September 2014, 14:45:25
Sorry if this was asked so many times, but on what temp should i keep my soldering iron to solder/desolder switches and led?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Fri, 26 September 2014, 10:14:50
Sorry if this was asked so many times, but on what temp should i keep my soldering iron to solder/desolder switches and led? It's really tight.

It depends on which solder you're using but I believe 350C for Kester 44 is the norm?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 26 September 2014, 10:54:25
Sorry if this was asked so many times, but on what temp should i keep my soldering iron to solder/desolder switches and led?

It depends on which solder you're using but I believe 350C for Kester 44 is the norm?

That temp should work for all 63/27 solder.  The mix between lead and the tin affects the melting/flowable temp.  This temp should work fine for most leaded solder.  For lead free you will want to go up a bit more as it has a higher melting temp.  Though if you are removing lead free solder, add some leaded solder to it and it comes up a lot easier.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Sat, 27 September 2014, 18:51:52
I'm trying to desolder some leds and remove them. I feel like I'm getting all the solder without a problem but I can't pull the led out...am I missing something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 27 September 2014, 18:55:14
I'm trying to desolder some leds and remove them. I feel like I'm getting all the solder without a problem but I can't pull the led out...am I missing something?
Even a very small amount of solder can cause them to stick. Normally when I desolder LEDs they fall out on their own.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Sat, 27 September 2014, 19:07:58
something isn't right, I don't want to damage the pcb...I've touched the iron onto the lead in every angle and soldapulted multiple times...these don't want to come out... :mad:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Sat, 27 September 2014, 19:35:35
something isn't right, I don't want to damage the pcb...I've touched the iron onto the lead in every angle and soldapulted multiple times...these don't want to come out... :mad:

add a little more solder then try using the soldapult again.
it always works for me. or maybe your soldapult is filled with solder inside. might have to clean it.
if not the "sucking power" isn't really that strong.  :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Sat, 27 September 2014, 20:00:14
I added more solder to both leads, bridged it with solder and sucked the solder out...These things are really stuck in there. Still wouldn't come out.

Working on a second bad led, I managed to pull it out but think I pulled too hard, did I mess up the pcb? switch still works, guess I won't know I receive the replacement leds..ugh.

(http://i.imgur.com/CqUOqFz.jpg)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Sat, 27 September 2014, 20:57:47
update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 27 September 2014, 21:25:15
Geekhackers is out of learn to solder kits. Is there something similar somewhere else?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Sat, 27 September 2014, 22:40:38
This is an effective way for desolder ;D
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=47360;image)(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=47362;image)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HPE1000 on Sat, 27 September 2014, 22:45:29
My soldering pump just naturally did that. It's still a pretty garbage solder sucker but it helps I guess.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kohi on Sat, 27 September 2014, 22:47:22
something isn't right, I don't want to damage the pcb...I've touched the iron onto the lead in every angle and soldapulted multiple times...these don't want to come out... :mad:

I had the same problem as you - it looked like I got all of the solder off, but the LED wouldn't budge. I used a solder sucker, but it actually lifted the LED pad. . .
luckily I was able to reposition my 'out-of-position' LED, and when I soldered everything back on, it worked. hopefully it doesn't cause any problems in the future;;;
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 02 October 2014, 16:11:36
It seems that the OP is not up to date , what would be the budget soldering station nowadays ? 50-100$
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 02 October 2014, 16:12:07
.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 02 October 2014, 16:21:55
It seems that the OP is not up to date , what would be the budget soldering station nowadays ? 50-100$

It's up to date.  There hasn't been anything that needs an edit to come along.  Soldering stations don't change by year or semi-annually.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cooldiscretion on Thu, 02 October 2014, 16:43:20
This is an effective way for desolder ;D
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=47360;image)
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=47362;image)

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365)

I count three hands to take this picture???!!!  :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Fri, 03 October 2014, 06:54:45
Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

I use solder paste a lot - it's the fastest way to solder loads of smd. Just cover all the pads in blobs of paste, drop on all the passives - then I use how air and just blast it all until it's all melted and made nice joints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: yasuo on Fri, 03 October 2014, 07:07:59
This is an effective way for desolder ;D
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=47360;image)
Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42824.0;attach=47362;image)

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42824.msg1151365#msg1151365)

I count three hands to take this picture???!!!  :))
it's for switch i dont think for smd it's very small & risk :))
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 03 October 2014, 07:22:14
Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

I use solder paste a lot - it's the fastest way to solder loads of smd. Just cover all the pads in blobs of paste, drop on all the passives - then I use how air and just blast it all until it's all melted and made nice joints.

How hot are we talking about ? Would an hair dryer works ?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Fri, 03 October 2014, 07:43:20
Just curious if anyone has any opinions on using solder paste for SMDs.  I have some pretty small (0806 package) resistors I need to solder
on a board and using solder paste has worked well for me in the past. just put the paste on the pad, plop the component down and place the
iron near the past until it heats up and makes the connection. This way, if more solder needs to be added the component is already nicely in
place and stuck to the PCB.

I use solder paste a lot - it's the fastest way to solder loads of smd. Just cover all the pads in blobs of paste, drop on all the passives - then I use how air and just blast it all until it's all melted and made nice joints.

How hot are we talking about ? Would an hair dryer works ?

No I don't think so - nor would it be precise or controllable - my air station has variable air power, which is quite important as otherwise you can accidentally blow little smd guys off the board. I use 60/40 paste and have my air set at about 280C
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 03 October 2014, 09:04:08
Ok thanks margo
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: quochung1989 on Mon, 06 October 2014, 14:30:56
update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.
Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 07 October 2014, 07:33:18
update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.
Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share :)

(http://www.circuitspecialists.com/content/98560/BK4000-0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Tue, 07 October 2014, 11:32:50
update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.
Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share :)

Buy cheapo soldering tweezers.

Buy a vice to hold your keyboard perpendicularly.

Touch both led leads at the same time with the tweezers.

Pull out led.

For putting in LEDs, just do the reverse. It is a bit harder to execute, and you have to examine all joints carefully to make sure the solder flowed properly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 07 October 2014, 12:30:37
speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

Did you ever end up getting one of these?  I did, and was curious if anyone else picked one up.

First impressions after using it to desolder ~20 switches last night: works like a dream - just as easy to use as the 808, but it's lighter, easier to hold, has better temp control, and I love the dedicated power button.  We'll see how it holds up to some abuse, but the initial design is really great.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 07 October 2014, 12:33:57
speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

Did you ever end up getting one of these?  I did, and was curious if anyone else picked one up.

First impressions after using it to desolder ~20 switches last night: works like a dream - just as easy to use as the 808, but it's lighter, easier to hold, has better temp control, and I love the dedicated power button.  We'll see how it holds up to some abuse, but the initial design is really great.

What do you use for a stand?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 07 October 2014, 13:25:33

speaking of the 808, apparently hakko just revised it into the fr-300

tequipment really likes it: http://www.tequipment.net/Hakko-808-vs-FR-300-Desoldering-Tool/

it has some minor but oft-requested features: power button, more compact, easer tip changing, and less vibration.

i'm a little worried about the increase in suction in its potential tendency to lift pads, but looks interesting regardless. if anyone picks one up, please review it here!

I might pick one up sometime in the near future.

Did you ever end up getting one of these?  I did, and was curious if anyone else picked one up.

First impressions after using it to desolder ~20 switches last night: works like a dream - just as easy to use as the 808, but it's lighter, easier to hold, has better temp control, and I love the dedicated power button.  We'll see how it holds up to some abuse, but the initial design is really great.

What do you use for a stand?

I take my 888D off the stand and sloppily set/lay the FR-300 in that stand. It comes with a cheap metal piece to set the heater on if you want to set it flat on a table but I haven't used that yet. I also have a spare soldering iron holder I will start to use in the future.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: quochung1989 on Wed, 08 October 2014, 09:25:26
update: I found a much easier way of de-soldering the remaining leds. Just heat up one of the leads on the led and pull that side of the led out with pliers, then do the other side. (have someone hold the keyboard or use a vise) then soldapult the remaining solder out of the holes when done.

Didn't even bother with the soldapult at the start, just heat and pull, then soldapult the leftover solder out the holes once the led is out. My soldapult isn't getting all the solder out of those small holes, it works fine on larger leads.
Yeah i agree this with you. Or if anyone know the best way to desoldering led, pls share :)

Buy cheapo soldering tweezers.

Buy a vice to hold your keyboard perpendicularly.

Touch both led leads at the same time with the tweezers.

Pull out led.

For putting in LEDs, just do the reverse. It is a bit harder to execute, and you have to examine all joints carefully to make sure the solder flowed properly.
Ok thanks your sharing :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Wed, 08 October 2014, 09:33:36
What's the hakko like with tips?

Generally speaking hakko is difficult to get here, but my station is chewing through tips so fast it's starting to drive me mad, am thinking of getting rid and getting a different desoldering station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cgbuen on Thu, 09 October 2014, 23:48:19
What a normal Soldapullt should look like: 4:30 - 4:35
More

Completely compressed when opened and unplunged. Maximum suction.

My second ever ruined Soldapullt, ruined in the same way this time as the first time
(http://i.imgur.com/vYi16ck.jpg)
Outstretched when opened and unplunged. No suction.

What might have happened, as I understand it
Sometimes I'll stop doing DIY projects for 5-6 months at a time, so my Soldapullt stays tucked away, uncleaned. When picking it back up, I'll find that the thin middle "rod" part had stuck to the tip assembly when the leftover, uncleaned solder had hardened over the course of those few months. Since the spring portion moves along with that rod, it had remained outstretched that whole time. I suppose then it just loses its ability to stay as compressed as it was before.

(Also, in these two times, I've proceeded to panic when I don't see the proper suction, try to rotate to open it, see that it's just completely stuck to the tip and try to pull further, which stretches out the spring even further. I was finally able to get it open this time by prying out the tip assembly which was completely stuck to the end of the "rod", but sadly, it was already unusable by this point.)

Possible takeaways for when I get my next
- Keep the Soldapullt clean
- Don't take too long between uses
- (?) Keep the barrel separated from the rear assembly when storing
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sun, 12 October 2014, 13:52:46
Haven't read through all 79 pages yet....
For a sub $500usd setup...   If I want solder, desolder,  hot air are there any combo hobbyist bargains to be found?

My radios hack iron and multi hand tools are not really up to a keyboard project.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sun, 12 October 2014, 15:12:47
AOYUE 968A+ 4 IN 1 DIGITAL HOT AIR REWORK AND SOLDERING STATION @ 175?

http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

AOYUE 2702A+ ALL IN ONE DIGITAL HOT AIR REWORK STATION @ 239

http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-2702a-all-in-one-digital-hot-air-rework-station/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: cinnamonrollz on Sun, 19 October 2014, 15:21:47
Gas soldering irons ftw!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: goflo on Sun, 19 October 2014, 15:53:34
@Tiramisu
I recently got a Xytronic LF-853D Station. Solder, Desolder, Hot Air.
I have just done about 500 solder points with it, so no long term experience, but some first impressions.

The hot air unit did a great job soldering the diodes on the ergodox I`m typing on right now.
Heats up quick an has a high air flow (if you want to, I prefer less volume). Air flow and temperature are good to adjust.

The desoldering iron does a real good job, but you have to clean it about every 50 times you desoldered a part. But that`s no big deal...turning a part about 90 degrees, pull out a little glass container, clean it....up you go.
After long use (about 20min) the grip get rather warm, but nothing critical.

The soldering iron has a nice size, compared to my older Weller Station it`s a bit thinner. You get all sorts of tips for it, ranging from 0.8mm round tip to 3,2mm flat. That`s the biggest one I got, maybe there is more available.
Solder an Desolder irons heat up pretty quick (I can measure it if someone is interested).

I`m pretty happy with, in the next days there`s another clock project to solder...another ~250 soldering points. Another chance to test this big boy.  :cool:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 19 October 2014, 18:35:29
I just want to chime in with my experience on desoldering different boards.  I have desoldered my Das a total of 3 times now.  Very solid traces and yet to lift a single pad or trace.  I was into the second row of my rosewill RK9000 pcb and I lifted a pad.  The pads on that pcb is more of a trace than a pad.  They are very delicate and thin.  Fixing that pad won't be an issue though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tiramisuu on Sun, 19 October 2014, 19:57:28
@Tiramisu
I recently got a Xytronic LF-853D Station. Solder, Desolder, Hot Air.
I have just done about 500 solder points with it, so no long term experience, but some first impressions.

The hot air unit did a great job soldering the diodes on the ergodox I`m typing on right now.
Heats up quick an has a high air flow (if you want to, I prefer less volume). Air flow and temperature are good to adjust.

The desoldering iron does a real good job, but you have to clean it about every 50 times you desoldered a part. But that`s no big deal...turning a part about 90 degrees, pull out a little glass container, clean it....up you go.
After long use (about 20min) the grip get rather warm, but nothing critical.

The soldering iron has a nice size, compared to my older Weller Station it`s a bit thinner. You get all sorts of tips for it, ranging from 0.8mm round tip to 3,2mm flat. That`s the biggest one I got, maybe there is more available.
Solder an Desolder irons heat up pretty quick (I can measure it if someone is interested).

I`m pretty happy with, in the next days there`s another clock project to solder...another ~250 soldering points. Another chance to test this big boy.  :cool:

Looked at a few reviews.   $600 is a more than I want to spend.      I can see pulling apart and putting together a couple of keyboards 4 or 5 times over the winter figuring out what I like best but after that the tools may sit in a box or go for sale on kijiji in the spring.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 19 October 2014, 20:44:41
I think it's time to start talking about some reworking the recommended list a little.  Let's take a week to discuss options at the sub-100 and 100 - 300 range options for both soldering and desoldering. With the influx of boards with SMT, I'd like to get some good hot air options, too.  In fact, I've been debating buying a hot air station for myself/business use, too. I think the upper range is still pretty much locked down with the edsyn 2020 or one of the production items mentioned that had temp sensing in the tip of the soldering wand instead of the wand handle.

I don't have any real knowledge of current sub 100 options besides the fx888d, but for 100 - 300, the edsyn 951sx(e) is still my preferred recommendation.  That's not to say a similarly priced weller wouldn't be comparable.  I think hakko is weak in this range because of how well they do the fx888d for the novice/hobbiest.

Someone had mentioned (PMed me, too) recommending a butane pen for the sub-$50 range and since that's what I used to learn how to solder anyways, I'm willing to open up discussion pertaining different options there as well. 

As to desoldering, if you're doing one or two boards ever, soldapullt from edsyn is still awesome.  If you're doing anything more, get the newest version of the hakko desoldering gun, FR-300.  Reviews are solid and I like how it works and feels to use.

So let's have it, guys.  I want to hear some recommendations to get this up to date.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Sun, 19 October 2014, 21:39:24
If you're doing anything more, get the newest version of the hakko desoldering gun, FR-300.  Reviews are solid and I like how it works and feels to use.

So you did end up getting one, then.  I also did, as I mentioned a little while back.

You've also owned both the 808 and the FR-300, so maybe you can comment as well, but I personally think that the FR-300 is a big step forward.  In principle, it's very similar, but the execution is really improved.  I love that it's lighter, quieter, and has both a power light and switch.  I originally paid around $180 for my 808, as I managed to get a good deal, and paid around $300 for the FR-300.  If I could have gotten the same deal on another 808, I would have preferred that.  But comparing retail prices, I think the FR-300 is totally worth it if you don't already own an 808.

That's my ramblings on the subject.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 25 October 2014, 04:06:07
I'm considering getting this for my first soldering iron.  Has anyone had any experience with it to know if it's a decent product?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPUENI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_01_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPUENI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_01_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I would be getting it for learning purposes, and to do some switch, and maybe led removal/swapping. 

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sat, 25 October 2014, 04:23:52
Starting with a cheap soldering iron could really make your life miserable. I don’t have any particular experience with that one though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 25 October 2014, 15:19:39
I'm considering getting this for my first soldering iron.  Has anyone had any experience with it to know if it's a decent product?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPUENI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_01_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPUENI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_01_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I would be getting it for learning purposes, and to do some switch, and maybe led removal/swapping.

I don't have any experience with the dash stuff either, but the quick glance I did at reviews looks solid.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CommonCurt on Sat, 25 October 2014, 16:30:25
I'm considering getting this for my first soldering iron.  Has anyone had any experience with it to know if it's a decent product?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPUENI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_01_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FZPUENI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_01_02_t_lh?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

I would be getting it for learning purposes, and to do some switch, and maybe led removal/swapping.

I don't have any experience with the dash stuff either, but the quick glance I did at reviews looks solid.

Yeah from the reviews I've read, it sounds at least decent. 

The 15watt Dash is rated at 370C, and I read the the best temp for Kester 44 is around 350C. 

They also have a 20watt Dash rated at 420C, and a 25watt rated at 450C.    So I figured the 15watt would be the best choice.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:05:51
What a normal Soldapullt should look like: 4:30 - 4:35
More

Completely compressed when opened and unplunged. Maximum suction.

My second ever ruined Soldapullt, ruined in the same way this time as the first time
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/vYi16ck.jpg)

Outstretched when opened and unplunged. No suction.

What might have happened, as I understand it
Sometimes I'll stop doing DIY projects for 5-6 months at a time, so my Soldapullt stays tucked away, uncleaned. When picking it back up, I'll find that the thin middle "rod" part had stuck to the tip assembly when the leftover, uncleaned solder had hardened over the course of those few months. Since the spring portion moves along with that rod, it had remained outstretched that whole time. I suppose then it just loses its ability to stay as compressed as it was before.

(Also, in these two times, I've proceeded to panic when I don't see the proper suction, try to rotate to open it, see that it's just completely stuck to the tip and try to pull further, which stretches out the spring even further. I was finally able to get it open this time by prying out the tip assembly which was completely stuck to the end of the "rod", but sadly, it was already unusable by this point.)

Possible takeaways for when I get my next
- Keep the Soldapullt clean
- Don't take too long between uses
- (?) Keep the barrel separated from the rear assembly when storing
the third one isn't necessary. the first one is definitely necessary. however, what's making the gasket stick is actually the condensed and solidified flux and not the solder. solder in a soldapullt turns into either big slugs or little flakes. however, some part of the flux fumes will actually recondense into flux, and when it does, it will be nasty hard flux without much moisture. hence, the gasket will stick.

lesson: never force a soldapullt open or closed. soldapullts are extremely simply machines. there's a spring, a rod and a plunger. if the plunger sticks and you push or pull too hard, you're going to kill the spring or the rod.

lesson: flux condenses in soldapullts and makes the mechanisms stick. there are two great ways to loosen a stuck soldapullt up. 1) run warm soapy water through it to soften and wash away enough flux to actuate the plunger without damaging anything 2) put a mild solvent into the tip to dissolve the hardened flux. isopropyl is what i would recommend here. acetone or any other ketone will destroy the plastic. short stints of isoprop will not cause damage to the plastic. important! don't use solvents with a standard edsyn soldapullt, only with the GH krytox-lubricated soldapullts.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:13:09
fun fact: you can also kill a hakko 808 by filling the plunger full of flux and solder. ask tjcaustin how i know  :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Mon, 27 October 2014, 22:14:55
fun fact: you can also kill a hakko 808 by filling the plunger full of flux and solder. ask tjcaustin how i know  :p

You can also ask Lastpilot about killing 808s.  :P   :-X :-X
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Tue, 28 October 2014, 12:58:01
Looked at a few reviews.   $600 is a more than I want to spend.      I can see pulling apart and putting together a couple of keyboards 4 or 5 times over the winter figuring out what I like best but after that the tools may sit in a box or go for sale on kijiji in the spring.

Honestly the Xytronic is, in my opinion, maybe only worth a third of what it goes for. It's all chinese generic quality parts - for example the hot air and iron combo can get for something like $50 in small quantities from the vendor. Desoldering addon is of course not worth $550. Unfortunately, all in one options from proper vendors are even more expensive if getting them retail, though the difference between them and the china generics is like night and day. While I don't think one needs hot air for generic (non-qfn/bga and such) smd soldering and occasional desoldering is perfectly fine with a pump, you do want a high quality main iron if you're spending that much money. Look on ebay for used pace stations with td-100 or metcal/oki mfr series, both being usually fairly inexpensive. Feel free to pm me for specific recommendations.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 28 October 2014, 13:23:41
fun fact: you can also kill a hakko 808 by filling the plunger full of flux and solder. ask tjcaustin how i know  :p

You can also ask Lastpilot about killing 808s.  :P   :-X :-X

I burnt the crap out of my foot cleaning out my 808 the last time I thought I'd killed it.  *And* shocked myself putting it back together.  I wish the edsyn versions were anywhere close to financially smart for me to get.  Same with their hot air stations.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Tue, 28 October 2014, 15:03:09
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 28 October 2014, 15:10:30
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: radio_killah on Tue, 28 October 2014, 15:16:42
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.

Quick question what is SMD? Is hot air required for it? Also LED's are no problem with a regular soldering iron like the  Hakko fx888 right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 28 October 2014, 15:19:02
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.

Quick question what is SMD? Is hot air required for it? Also LED's are no problem with a regular soldering iron like the  Hakko fx888 right?

surface mount devices.  hot air isn't required, but makes the job a lot easier.  It depends on the LEDs as they come in both through hole (the kind with legs like in the comic posted earlier) or smd.  For a small time deal, a normal iron works ok for smd so you'd still be ok, just more tedious and skill intensive.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ceflame on Tue, 28 October 2014, 15:20:38
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.

Quick question what is SMD? Is hot air required for it? Also LED's are no problem with a regular soldering iron like the  Hakko fx888 right?

I just had my first experience with SMD soldering and I only did it with $20 iron from amazon. I'd recommend getting some solder paste though, makes it a lot easier in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Tue, 28 October 2014, 15:21:10
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.

Quick question what is SMD? Is hot air required for it? Also LED's are no problem with a regular soldering iron like the  Hakko fx888 right?

SMD = Surface Mount Device, and is usually smaller and flatter than the alternative.  Frequently soldered by robots, but can be hand-soldered just fine with enough patience/experience.

Hot air is not required, but it does make it easier.  Handling such small devices and keeping control of the soldering iron is not a task I'd recommend for the novice (though you *can* do it; you would be forced to learn quick :P ).

Some LEDs are SMD, some are through-hole.  Both can be soldered with the fx888.  Through-hole will be much easier.  And of course, if we're talking about LEDs that are going through Cherry switches, it will be through-hole.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 28 October 2014, 16:39:28
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.

Quick question what is SMD? Is hot air required for it? Also LED's are no problem with a regular soldering iron like the  Hakko fx888 right?

As others have said, definitely not required.  I have soldered two boards with all smd resistors and diodes and I did fine with my fx888.  I have to admit that I learned a lot in the process.  In my build log (specifically the 75% board) I have some tips/tricks for doing smd with a standard iron.  Probably pretty useless for people who have done it before, but as a n00b, I found these tricks pretty helpful...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58969.msg1349714#msg1349714
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 28 October 2014, 16:59:49
my view on this is that chinese soldering gear is _dangerously_ low quality, and the more parts that are involved, the more dangerous these stations get. the most basic point to make here is that you're buying a tool that gets REALLY EFFING HOT. i have a point on my left pinky that has ZERO radial fingerprint because at some point when I was screwing around with something incredibly hot, i burned it off. for perspective, i sell soldering gear, and i cover my workstation with carbon fiber textile and insulation so that i don't light my lab on fire when i inevitably drop something incredibly hot.

if you were vaporizing organic solvents in a chemistry lab, would you buy the cheapest fume hood that you could find? no.

so why cut corners on a tool that can get hot enough to melt most tin and nickel alloys? money is an ephemeral, tradable thing. your life and health, unfortunately are not.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 28 October 2014, 17:05:57
my view on this is that chinese soldering gear is _dangerously_ low quality, and the more parts that are involved, the more dangerous these stations get. the most basic point to make here is that you're buying a tool that gets REALLY EFFING HOT. i have a point on my left pinky that has ZERO radial fingerprint because at some point when I was screwing around with something incredibly hot, i burned it off. for perspective, i sell soldering gear, and i cover my workstation with carbon fiber textile and insulation so that i don't light my lab on fire when i inevitably drop something incredibly hot.

if you were vaporizing organic solvents in a chemistry lab, would you buy the cheapest fume hood that you could find? no.

so why cut corners on a tool that can get hot enough to melt most tin and nickel alloys? money is an ephemeral, tradable thing. your life and health, unfortunately are not.

I tend to agree with this.  Just to add a little personal experience on this.  I bought a knock off version (like an aoyue) and it died on me after only using it 3 times.  Luckily I was able to take it back to the shop I bought it from and basically said WTF and they took it back and gave me credit towards a fx888 which I have been using since.  The fx888 is pretty good, but if I buy another iron I will probably spend a bit more and buy something that is very good.  Unfortunately, to get from pretty good to very good you have to more than double your budget, so the fx888 is just going to have to be good enough for me for now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 28 October 2014, 17:06:41
my view on this is that chinese soldering gear is _dangerously_ low quality, and the more parts that are involved, the more dangerous these stations get. the most basic point to make here is that you're buying a tool that gets REALLY EFFING HOT. i have a point on my left pinky that has ZERO radial fingerprint because at some point when I was screwing around with something incredibly hot, i burned it off. for perspective, i sell soldering gear, and i cover my workstation with carbon fiber textile and insulation so that i don't light my lab on fire when i inevitably drop something incredibly hot.

if you were vaporizing organic solvents in a chemistry lab, would you buy the cheapest fume hood that you could find? no.

so why cut corners on a tool that can get hot enough to melt most tin and nickel alloys? money is an ephemeral, tradable thing. your life and health, unfortunately are not.

Agreed wholeheartedly. That's why I only recommend Pace/metcal/JBC and some Edsyn (and a few others). Having the right tool for the job is crucial. I was once cutting out an acrylic backplate with a pocketknife (wrong tool). It slipped of course and I almost cut off my left index finger. I had no feeling in it at all for about a week. Now I have some of the feeling back, but it's not going to be like it was.

Quality tools are important. If you can't afford them then you should try to borrow some. Anyone in the Boston area is free to use my tools and workspace should they want.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Motan22 on Wed, 29 October 2014, 03:42:18
Which of these two would you guys recommend?

This: http://sra-solder.com/aoyue-968a-4-in-1-digital-hot-air-rework-and-soldering-station/

or

This: http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414526508&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+888

Also re-working the suggestions would be appreciated I'm sure!

Go hakko.  The only reason I want hot air is I want to get into offering more SMD soldering services for my business, or I'd never touch it.  And I wouldn't touch it at that price.

Quick question what is SMD? Is hot air required for it? Also LED's are no problem with a regular soldering iron like the  Hakko fx888 right?

As others have said, definitely not required.  I have soldered two boards with all smd resistors and diodes and I did fine with my fx888.  I have to admit that I learned a lot in the process.  In my build log (specifically the 75% board) I have some tips/tricks for doing smd with a standard iron.  Probably pretty useless for people who have done it before, but as a n00b, I found these tricks pretty helpful...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=58969.msg1349714#msg1349714

Found that thread super informative and really helpful swill, thanks for taking the time to document your work.

I will be delving into the world of soldering shortly and for anyone in the UK looking to start off as I am, I have been highly recommended by an electrician I work with to go with this non variable soldering iron - the Antex CS18 with the silicone cable option. Apparently it is very well made and great for through hole soldering.

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/standard-soldering-irons/cs18/

Does anyone here themselves have experience with antex products?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Fri, 31 October 2014, 07:22:19
fun fact: you can also kill a hakko 808 by filling the plunger full of flux and solder. ask tjcaustin how i know  :p

You can also ask Lastpilot about killing 808s.  :P   :-X :-X

I burnt the crap out of my foot cleaning out my 808 the last time I thought I'd killed it.  *And* shocked myself putting it back together.  I wish the edsyn versions were anywhere close to financially smart for me to get.  Same with their hot air stations.

I always burn my hands cleaning my desoldering station. like every single time.

My air station is really cheap - it's the only cheap thing I have in my setup really. It's fine though, I've used it for loads and loads of hours doing smd stuff. I think it cost me about £50. I have been wanting to get a new air station for a while, but when my cheapie is working absolutely fine for any smd stuff I've thrown at it - I don't really see the point. It's an Atten 858d.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: AKmalamute on Sat, 01 November 2014, 01:46:35
Attachments don't work I get instant 500-errors. Might this time to I'm on at least the dozenth time I tried to speak somewhere about my frustrations but nevermind will try to do it sans-picture.

MCP23018, pad fine trace broken. Trace goes underneath the body of the expander, and down to pins way the heck down at the bottom of the board. So, run wire through pad with pin, after soldering to the exposed, dangling trace?

edit: yep, definitely the attachment killing the post.

So, slightly sure I can talk this time: Ergodox died, I've narrowed it down to, either the expander or the cable between. Melted some caps trying to reflow the phone cord I'm using between the two, no change. Removed the old expander, broke three pins off, and lifted two traces. One is easily fixed because it just goes to another, unused, pad. But that one ... I think it's outside my skill level.

Let's try this: http://imgur.com/MsWyUj1

It's the 'line' that cuts across the "3" -- that's a missing trace, which is sorta sitting between the 3 & the 0. The other line is also a missing trace.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CPTBadAss on Sat, 01 November 2014, 01:49:00
I always burn my hands cleaning my desoldering station. like every single time.

I'm ordering a build from you. Literally bleed for all the keyboards you build? I fux with that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 01 November 2014, 01:58:53
I always burn my hands cleaning my desoldering station. like every single time.

I'm ordering a build from you. Literally bleed for all the keyboards you build? I fux with that.

He only bleeds if you make him harvest things from other boards.  Gah, geez, still so new <3
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 03 November 2014, 06:46:53
Is there a ghetto way to solder SMD Resistors ? I have no hot air station , just a 20€ solering iron .

I'm talking about those one : http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/electric-parts/15-resistorssmd-100-pcs.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: goflo on Mon, 03 November 2014, 07:11:29
Honestly the Xytronic is, in my opinion, maybe only worth a third of what it goes for. It's all chinese generic quality parts - for example the hot air and iron combo can get for something like $50 in small quantities from the vendor. Desoldering addon is of course not worth $550. Unfortunately, all in one options from proper vendors are even more expensive if getting them retail, though the difference between them and the china generics is like night and day. While I don't think one needs hot air for generic (non-qfn/bga and such) smd soldering and occasional desoldering is perfectly fine with a pump, you do want a high quality main iron if you're spending that much money. Look on ebay for used pace stations with td-100 or metcal/oki mfr series, both being usually fairly inexpensive. Feel free to pm me for specific recommendations.

It might be that it`s chinese generic, but it works fine for me and doesn´t cost me 3000$ like a Weller Rework Station in our labs. :-X
I agree, for the "usual" soldering work on a keyboard only it´s a bit oversized, but I do a lot of SMD stuff and desoldering, so I just wanted a affordable rework station. And there aren´t that many available  ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 03 November 2014, 09:41:27
Is there a ghetto way to solder SMD Resistors ? I have no hot air station , just a 20€ solering iron .

I'm talking about those one : http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/electric-parts/15-resistorssmd-100-pcs.html

You still can solder SMD Resistors with solering iron if you have the SMD soldering tip for that.

Edit: grammar correction
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Mon, 03 November 2014, 10:35:24
Is there a ghetto way to solder SMD Resistors ? I have no hot air station , just a 20€ solering iron .

I'm talking about those one : http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/electric-parts/15-resistorssmd-100-pcs.html


Ideally, you want a tip no larger than 1.2mm or so for soldering 0805s small size solder wire (I like 0.015), and some flux (mgchemicals 835 is nice). Procedure for enig (gold looking) pads would be to apply a bit of flux and a small amount of solder to one pad, tack the smd part to that pad, then flux and solder the other pad, and add a bit more solder to the first pad. It doesn't take a lot of solder, and you want clean looking fillets like these (http://poeth.com/Photos/SMTMFG7.gif).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Mon, 03 November 2014, 10:42:15
Honestly the Xytronic is, in my opinion, maybe only worth a third of what it goes for. It's all chinese generic quality parts - for example the hot air and iron combo can get for something like $50 in small quantities from the vendor. Desoldering addon is of course not worth $550. Unfortunately, all in one options from proper vendors are even more expensive if getting them retail, though the difference between them and the china generics is like night and day. While I don't think one needs hot air for generic (non-qfn/bga and such) smd soldering and occasional desoldering is perfectly fine with a pump, you do want a high quality main iron if you're spending that much money. Look on ebay for used pace stations with td-100 or metcal/oki mfr series, both being usually fairly inexpensive. Feel free to pm me for specific recommendations.

It might be that it`s chinese generic, but it works fine for me and doesn´t cost me 3000$ like a Weller Rework Station in our labs. :-X
I agree, for the "usual" soldering work on a keyboard only it´s a bit oversized, but I do a lot of SMD stuff and desoldering, so I just wanted a affordable rework station. And there aren´t that many available  ;)

Well, one option might have been Aoyue 474A + something like a yihua (often rebranded) 995D. Two separate devices, but would have been half the cost :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: goflo on Mon, 03 November 2014, 11:45:06
Hmm, you´re right. Those two manufacturers weren´t on my list. Never heard of them before.
And a quick research showed, they are really hard to get over here in germany.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Mon, 03 November 2014, 12:31:27
Hmm, you´re right. Those two manufacturers weren´t on my list. Never heard of them before.
And a quick research showed, they are really hard to get over here in germany.


Ah, that makes sense. Silly international export regulations, etc :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Mon, 03 November 2014, 13:33:36
Thanks for the responses guys , I'll try u_n
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: findingthelimit on Tue, 04 November 2014, 15:01:31
I've never soldered before, and am looking to start practicing so I can eventually build a GON - can anyone let me know what equipment I'd need?

I'm thinking of buying the soldering kit from massdrop. Do I also need a desoldering iron on top of that? Do I need to buy alternative sized tips, since I'll be soldering SMDs as well as switches? I've heard that SMDs are a lot more narrow in comparison, and I might need a different tool for those.

My questions might be idiotic, since I haven't soldered anything since high school, but I'm excited to get back into this soldering business!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 04 November 2014, 15:36:27
I've never soldered before, and am looking to start practicing so I can eventually build a GON - can anyone let me know what equipment I'd need?

I'm thinking of buying the soldering kit from massdrop. Do I also need a desoldering iron on top of that? Do I need to buy alternative sized tips, since I'll be soldering SMDs as well as switches? I've heard that SMDs are a lot more narrow in comparison, and I might need a different tool for those.

My questions might be idiotic, since I haven't soldered anything since high school, but I'm excited to get back into this soldering business!

Buy the kit from massdrop.  For the money you can't really get setup any better.  It comes with a solder sucker (if I remember correctly), so you do not need a desoldering iron.  I think the tips that are offered are pretty good.  I had no problem with my hako soldering SMDs with the standard tip.  I did end up putting on a smaller tip (because I had a smaller one), but I would have been fine with the regular tip.  With a bigger tip, keep in mind that the work will heat up way faster, so you will have to be quicker and more careful with a bigger tip.  Let us know if you have questions once you have your iron in hand...  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 November 2014, 18:28:25
learn it love it live it. power transfer (ie, joules _expended_ to heat per unit time) is a function of thermal resistance at the tip to heater junction times the area of the thermal joint.

thermal resistance is optimized by using flux to dissolve oxidized metal from the joint. the _area_ of the thermal joint, ie the cross-section of the two objects in contact with each other, is entirely determined by the size of the tip and how you jimmy it into place.

ok, let's recap

1) use flux to CLEAN and TIN your iron and your joint. your iron should be shiny. your joint should be shiny. every damned thing should be shiny. are you blinded by all the shinyness? no? TRY AGAIN

2) want more power? USE A BIGGER TIP, and use it well. none of this, let me touch the tip of the chisel and erhgjehrg. no, SHOVE THAT SUCKER IN THERE. your tip should be touching BOTH surfaces that you want to join, as well as the solder you want to flow into the joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ceflame on Tue, 04 November 2014, 18:40:23
I've never soldered before, and am looking to start practicing so I can eventually build a GON - can anyone let me know what equipment I'd need?

I'm thinking of buying the soldering kit from massdrop. Do I also need a desoldering iron on top of that? Do I need to buy alternative sized tips, since I'll be soldering SMDs as well as switches? I've heard that SMDs are a lot more narrow in comparison, and I might need a different tool for those.

My questions might be idiotic, since I haven't soldered anything since high school, but I'm excited to get back into this soldering business!

I actually used a super cheap iron from amazon to build mine (http://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Station-Features-Continuously-Variable/dp/B0029N70WM?ie=UTF8&qid=1415147810&sr=8-8&keywords=soldering+iron&tag=webtoolandtec-20). I definitely recommend it if you don't have that much cash to spare after shelling out for a GON. Above that, just get a soldapullt for desoldering. I just got some solder paste from ebay for $3.50 for the SMD parts, and some leaded solder for everything else.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 04 November 2014, 20:57:52
I would not recommend going cheap on an iron. IMO it just is not worth it. Buy one tool that does the job well and be done with it. You also get so many other quality tools in that package that it just makes sense.  I own 7 pairs of tweezers and the ones included in this kit blow them all out of the water by a mile. It is amazing what a difference a good pair of tweezers makes when soldering. I also own the Larson cutters. They are excellent and definitely a great addition to this kit.

If I was not completely setup with soldering gear at this point, I would be jumping on this. All great tools at a price pretty much anyone can swing. My $0.02...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: findingthelimit on Tue, 04 November 2014, 21:43:36
I would not recommend going cheap on an iron. IMO it just is not worth it. Buy one tool that does the job well and be done with it. You also get so many other quality tools in that package that it just makes sense.  I own 7 pairs of tweezers and the ones included in this kit blow them all out of the water by a mile. It is amazing what a difference a good pair of tweezers makes when soldering. I also own the Larson cutters. They are excellent and definitely a great addition to this kit.

If I was not completely setup with soldering gear at this point, I would be jumping on this. All great tools at a price pretty much anyone can swing. My $0.02...

Okay, so I'm deciding to hold out on my GON purchase for now - I am set in buying it in the near future, but I think I really should invest in a good soldering kit for now, and I'm also deciding what colored SMD LEDs to get on that acrylic case.

I'm debating between two kits - the CL1481-K, seen here, http://www.edsyn.com/product/ST/CL1481-K.html, for $90, or the massdrop set, for $145. It seems like they are the same thing to me, so I'm wondering why the massdrop set costs $50 more? Is it just because the CL1481-k set doesn't include solder? I thought solder is cheap.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Tue, 04 November 2014, 21:47:31
Could someone please clarify this for me? I've read in this thread that the general consensus is to set the iron temp to about 350c for Kester 44 but in Kesters KB it says to set the iron at 750F which is about 399C?

http://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/ (http://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/)

"What is the recommended soldering iron tip temperature?

When hand soldering with a rosin flux such as the Kester #44 or the # 285 the recommended iron tip temperature is 750°F. If you are soldering with a low residue no clean solder such as the #245or # 275 we recommend a tip temperature of 600-650°F."
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 04 November 2014, 21:58:44
I'm debating between two kits - the CL1481-K, seen here, http://www.edsyn.com/product/ST/CL1481-K.html, for $90, or the massdrop set, for $145. It seems like they are the same thing to me, so I'm wondering why the massdrop set costs $50 more? Is it just because the CL1481-k set doesn't include solder? I thought solder is cheap.

Thanks!

there's some differences.
The MD kit has the ESD_safe soldapullt
I believe the irons are calibrated for lead solder on MD
MD kit has really good tweezers
MD kit has a really really really good sidecutter

edsyn kit cutter and pliers are "decent" quality.

Could someone please clarify this for me? I've read in this thread that the general consensus is to set the iron temp to about 350c for Kester 44 but in Kesters KB it says to set the iron at 750F which is about 399C?

http://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/ (http://www.kester.com/knowledge-base/)

"What is the recommended soldering iron tip temperature?

When hand soldering with a rosin flux such as the Kester #44 or the # 285 the recommended iron tip temperature is 750°F. If you are soldering with a low residue no clean solder such as the #245or # 275 we recommend a tip temperature of 600-650°F."

It's all preference.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 04 November 2014, 22:01:17
I would not recommend going cheap on an iron. IMO it just is not worth it. Buy one tool that does the job well and be done with it. You also get so many other quality tools in that package that it just makes sense.  I own 7 pairs of tweezers and the ones included in this kit blow them all out of the water by a mile. It is amazing what a difference a good pair of tweezers makes when soldering. I also own the Larson cutters. They are excellent and definitely a great addition to this kit.

If I was not completely setup with soldering gear at this point, I would be jumping on this. All great tools at a price pretty much anyone can swing. My $0.02...

Okay, so I'm deciding to hold out on my GON purchase for now - I am set in buying it in the near future, but I think I really should invest in a good soldering kit for now, and I'm also deciding what colored SMD LEDs to get on that acrylic case.

I'm debating between two kits - the CL1481-K, seen here, http://www.edsyn.com/product/ST/CL1481-K.html, for $90, or the massdrop set, for $145. It seems like they are the same thing to me, so I'm wondering why the massdrop set costs $50 more? Is it just because the CL1481-k set doesn't include solder? I thought solder is cheap.

Thanks!
Because you get way more than just the iron from the massdrop kit.

Included
- CL1481-K3 Edsyn Soldering Iron with Iron Holder - $90 value
- LT376 tip - I don't know, $2
- LT374 tip - I don't know, $2
- DS017LS ESD-safe soldapullt - I think around $20, can't remember
- Hand tool: KP9157 - $35
- 1 oz Kester 44 solder on spool - $5?
- Tweezer - $5?

Basically, it gives you everything you need in quality tools and you pay shipping once.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 04 November 2014, 22:08:29
Because you get way more than just the iron from the massdrop kit.

Included
- CL1481-K3 Edsyn Soldering Iron with Iron Holder - $90 value
- LT376 tip - I don't know, $2
- LT374 tip - I don't know, $2
- DS017LS ESD-safe soldapullt - I think around $20, can't remember
- Hand tool: KP9157 - $35
- 1 oz Kester 44 solder on spool - $5?
- Tweezer - $5?

Basically, it gives you everything you need in quality tools and you pay shipping once.

If you click the link, edsyn kit comes with iron, same tips, basic soldapullt, some braid, a braid holder, and some pliers and a cutter.

MD tweezer is >$5 IIRC. Good tweezers are expensive. I have some excelta tweezers that MSRP over $100
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 04 November 2014, 22:32:30
Because you get way more than just the iron from the massdrop kit.

Included
- CL1481-K3 Edsyn Soldering Iron with Iron Holder - $90 value
- LT376 tip - I don't know, $2
- LT374 tip - I don't know, $2
- DS017LS ESD-safe soldapullt - I think around $20, can't remember
- Hand tool: KP9157 - $35
- 1 oz Kester 44 solder on spool - $5?
- Tweezer - $5?

Basically, it gives you everything you need in quality tools and you pay shipping once.

If you click the link, edsyn kit comes with iron, same tips, basic soldapullt, some braid, a braid holder, and some pliers and a cutter.

MD tweezer is >$5 IIRC. Good tweezers are expensive. I have some excelta tweezers that MSRP over $100

My bad, I did not click the link, I was going off what I had seen on the edsyn site previously.

In that case, the edsyn kit is a really good deal.  You are getting both Larsen pliers and cutters (assuming, given the names) as well as the rest of what you would need.  That is a pretty good deal... 

Thanks dorkvader for keeping me honest.  :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: findingthelimit on Tue, 04 November 2014, 23:51:55
Because you get way more than just the iron from the massdrop kit.

Included
- CL1481-K3 Edsyn Soldering Iron with Iron Holder - $90 value
- LT376 tip - I don't know, $2
- LT374 tip - I don't know, $2
- DS017LS ESD-safe soldapullt - I think around $20, can't remember
- Hand tool: KP9157 - $35
- 1 oz Kester 44 solder on spool - $5?
- Tweezer - $5?

Basically, it gives you everything you need in quality tools and you pay shipping once.

If you click the link, edsyn kit comes with iron, same tips, basic soldapullt, some braid, a braid holder, and some pliers and a cutter.

MD tweezer is >$5 IIRC. Good tweezers are expensive. I have some excelta tweezers that MSRP over $100

My bad, I did not click the link, I was going off what I had seen on the edsyn site previously.

In that case, the edsyn kit is a really good deal.  You are getting both Larsen pliers and cutters (assuming, given the names) as well as the rest of what you would need.  That is a pretty good deal... 

Thanks dorkvader for keeping me honest.  :P

is the md kit still of higher quality, and is it really worth it to shell out the extra 50 for it? if the difference is mainly the desolderer, should i just get the edsyn kit and buy a solderpullt separately?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 05 November 2014, 06:47:23
Because you get way more than just the iron from the massdrop kit.

Included
- CL1481-K3 Edsyn Soldering Iron with Iron Holder - $90 value
- LT376 tip - I don't know, $2
- LT374 tip - I don't know, $2
- DS017LS ESD-safe soldapullt - I think around $20, can't remember
- Hand tool: KP9157 - $35
- 1 oz Kester 44 solder on spool - $5?
- Tweezer - $5?

Basically, it gives you everything you need in quality tools and you pay shipping once.

If you click the link, edsyn kit comes with iron, same tips, basic soldapullt, some braid, a braid holder, and some pliers and a cutter.

MD tweezer is >$5 IIRC. Good tweezers are expensive. I have some excelta tweezers that MSRP over $100

My bad, I did not click the link, I was going off what I had seen on the edsyn site previously.

In that case, the edsyn kit is a really good deal.  You are getting both Larsen pliers and cutters (assuming, given the names) as well as the rest of what you would need.  That is a pretty good deal... 

Thanks dorkvader for keeping me honest.  :P

is the md kit still of higher quality, and is it really worth it to shell out the extra 50 for it? if the difference is mainly the desolderer, should i just get the edsyn kit and buy a solderpullt separately?
I think they have almost identical components, the quality is pretty much the same, just a bit of a different package.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 05 November 2014, 07:19:57
Because you get way more than just the iron from the massdrop kit.

Included
- CL1481-K3 Edsyn Soldering Iron with Iron Holder - $90 value
- LT376 tip - I don't know, $2
- LT374 tip - I don't know, $2
- DS017LS ESD-safe soldapullt - I think around $20, can't remember
- Hand tool: KP9157 - $35
- 1 oz Kester 44 solder on spool - $5?
- Tweezer - $5?

Basically, it gives you everything you need in quality tools and you pay shipping once.

If you click the link, edsyn kit comes with iron, same tips, basic soldapullt, some braid, a braid holder, and some pliers and a cutter.

MD tweezer is >$5 IIRC. Good tweezers are expensive. I have some excelta tweezers that MSRP over $100

My bad, I did not click the link, I was going off what I had seen on the edsyn site previously.

In that case, the edsyn kit is a really good deal.  You are getting both Larsen pliers and cutters (assuming, given the names) as well as the rest of what you would need.  That is a pretty good deal... 

Thanks dorkvader for keeping me honest.  :p

is the md kit still of higher quality, and is it really worth it to shell out the extra 50 for it? if the difference is mainly the desolderer, should i just get the edsyn kit and buy a solderpullt separately?
I think they have almost identical components, the quality is pretty much the same, just a bit of a different package.

The pliers that come with the $90 edsyn kit are $0.90 http://www.edsyn.com/product/KP157.html (http://www.edsyn.com/product/KP157.html) and cutters are $7.80 http://www.edsyn.com/product/KP710.html (http://www.edsyn.com/product/KP710.html),  the side cuts in the massdrop kit are $33.30 http://www.edsyn.com/product/KP9157.html (http://www.edsyn.com/product/KP9157.html), there must be some benefit to having the nicer pair of cutters.

and the edsyn kit soldapult is $7.80 http://www.edsyn.com/product/PT209.html versus the ESD one on massdrop $25.20 http://www.edsyn.com/product/PT409.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 05 November 2014, 09:29:38
the K kit from Edsyn has some pliers and cutters that they have surplus and can basically give away. EdsynNick and I aren't crazy about the hand tools, but they will get the job done for one or two jobs. in the MD kit, we've paired the cl1481 with the best nippers money can buy at a very heavy discount (but not free, which is basically what's going on with the K kit).

as for the solder, i'm actually not sure what brand of solder they have in the K kits. i do know that it's very old, though, as those dispensers are old stock and, again, basically free with the kit. the MD kit comes with new stock Kester 44 on an ESD spool.

The K kit comes with a much smaller soldapullt than the DS017LS that comes with the MD kit. i've evaluated pretty much all the soldapullt designs with an eye on trying to save people money, and the original DS017 is so much better than the other designs that i decided it would be silly to try to save a few bucks on the smaller designs.

if you're budget limited and simply can't afford the MD kit, then i think the K kit is a great compromise. if you can stretch for the MD highest tier, i obviously recommend that one -- edsynnick, massdrop and i put a HUGE amount of though and effort into piecing together that kit based on all the previous kits i've vended, lowest possible pricing on everything, etc. etc. i'm incredibly proud of what we've put together, and i really really want it to get out there to as many potential world-changing-budding-electronics-hobbyists as possible, but i do realize that our price point will exclude some buyers (i wish we could sell it significantly below cost.. :[ ).

I'm also the worst salesman in the world, as i'll write 20 pages on thermodynamics instead of trying to sell you on something i've put together. so, buy good tools that are within your budget. i can guarantee to you that the MD kit is 100% fantastic tooling that i will stand by until the end of time, but if it's outside of your budget, then focus on anything that gets you a cl1481 iron and some leaded solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 11 November 2014, 22:24:46
so I just found out about magnet wire.
I also found out that magnet wire is available in multiple sizes!

How easy is it to tin? The wire-wrap I'm using now is tough to strip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 11 November 2014, 22:44:34
so I just found out about magnet wire.
I also found out that magnet wire is available in multiple sizes!

How easy is it to tin? The wire-wrap I'm using now is tough to strip.

Maybe I am thick as ****, but why would magnet wire be helpful for soldering?  Also, if you are putting it near chips, are you not worried that it will scramble the chip config?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 11 November 2014, 22:47:36
so I just found out about magnet wire.
I also found out that magnet wire is available in multiple sizes!

How easy is it to tin? The wire-wrap I'm using now is tough to strip.

Maybe I am thick as ****, but why would magnet wire be helpful for soldering?  Also, if you are putting it near chips, are you not worried that it will scramble the chip config?

Magnet wire is not magnetic.  It is just copper wire with a very thin enamel insulation.  This is to promote the magnetic field properties from the current changes in the windings of an electric motor.  Some varieties can be had that the insulation acts as a flux when soldering as well.

Edit:  Just wanted to add that at the voltages and currents found in a keyboard matrix the magnetic fields generated would be negligible. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 11 November 2014, 23:11:35
so I just found out about magnet wire.
I also found out that magnet wire is available in multiple sizes!

How easy is it to tin? The wire-wrap I'm using now is tough to strip.

Maybe I am thick as ****, but why would magnet wire be helpful for soldering?  Also, if you are putting it near chips, are you not worried that it will scramble the chip config?

Magnet wire is not magnetic.  It is just copper wire with a very thin enamel insulation.  This is to promote the magnetic field properties from the current changes in the windings of an electric motor.  Some varieties can be had that the insulation acts as a flux when soldering as well.

Edit:  Just wanted to add that at the voltages and currents found in a keyboard matrix the magnetic fields generated would be negligible.

Ahh, of course...  Yes, I actually knew about that.  I was looking into getting some for hand wiring projects but did not do the research to figure out what I should be buying.  I have some 24 gauge wire right now which I will probably use until I find a good source for magnet wire (to Canada).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 15 November 2014, 10:37:54
to use magnet wire for hookup purposes, just melt the coating off and tin the ends. it's much better than really thin hookup wire for thin projects and sometimes it's just the easiest way to get solid core hookup wire in whatever gauge that's not 22 or 18
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 15 November 2014, 22:07:11
it's just the easiest way to get solid core hookup wire in whatever gauge that's not 22 or 18
or 28-30 (wire wrap wire).

Yeah I really like magnet wire now and will be buying some. Stripping the ends off wire-wrap wire with my wire stripper tool is pretty tough.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 20 November 2014, 10:06:33
I love magnet wire! makes hand wired matrix look good too as people go "ohhh isn't that going to short?" as they don't realise it's insulated :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpikeBolt on Thu, 20 November 2014, 16:19:53
I'm going to try going for some ergo-clears mod and need some assistance. I live in Portugal so I will most like order from a european online store. I've been trying to keep it under 100€ since I will probably not use this equipment again. After searching a bit this is my current cart at amazon:

Solder Mat - 5£
Soldering Iron Tip Cleaning - 3£
Solid Solder 0.3mm Dia Flux Core 63% Tin 37% Lead Long Wire Reel - 1.23£
1.5M Length 3mm Width Braided Copper Wire Roll Desoldering Wick - 3.69£
60W ESD PROTECTION LCD SOLDERING IRON STATION (http://www.amazon.co.uk/60W-PROTECTION-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION/dp/B004X25LW8/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1416521792&sr=1-1&keywords=Hakko+soldering+station) - 42.37£
Shipping: 13£

Total: 89euros

I have 0 soldering experience and picked this stuff basically from reading online. I assume the soldering station isn't great, but does it fit for the job? What would you recommend? Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CommonCurt on Thu, 20 November 2014, 22:36:00
I know the Soldapullt is the preferred pump, but has anyone had any experience with this?

http://www.adafruit.com/product/1597 (http://www.adafruit.com/product/1597)

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 20 November 2014, 23:03:54
just from glancing at it, it is far too small and literally uses bits of 2mm tubing for tips. high purity PTFE melts around 320C, which is about 70C higher than the purest silicone you're going to find, and about 200C from run of the mill silicone-based products products, particularly tubing. i play with lots of fluorinated polymers and lots of silicone based polymers and that is pure marketing copy.

my understanding from working with edsyn closely for years is that edsyn is not happy when you sell clones of their product alongside their product. hence, i doubt adafruit will ever be able to vend edsyn products. this seems to be their alternative, as it hits about the same price point, and has the 'ooh, aah' of aluminum going for it to justify the price of what is either a very large syringe or a very small hand pump.

speaking of very large syringes though, i have need of them pretty often for mixing krytox. next time i order from adafruit, i'll pick one up and do a take-apart
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 22 November 2014, 05:56:58
There's just nothing like re-flow soldering. Everything comes out so smooth and regular. I've had problems with 0402s, but I think I have those under control now. The QFNs are tricker still. It's just hard applying little enough solder paste =P I see the solder blob on the flatter 0402s is starting to show some convexity. I should perhaps use less paste for those than the higher capacitors.

0402s
[attach=2]

QFN
[attach=1]

And seeing those close-ups I think some cleaning may still be in order. I thought they looked so clean out of the oven...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 24 November 2014, 21:36:44
bpiph! can you describe (pictorially even? :) ) your reflow oven setup? inquiring minds, etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 25 November 2014, 03:36:31
I have a pretty good intro to my setup in this thread http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/toaster-smd-re-flow-oven-t6861.html

I've been tweaking my timing and settings a bit. Setting constituting to turning a non-indexed knob... Trial and error only. I have no idea what temperature profile I actually manage..

I built the modified toaster just to try re-flowing out "properly". Experience says a regular hot air gun doesn't do it. It mostly just blows small stuff away... I dream of having a "proper" toaster oven setup. I should probably look further into that. I've also collected a few extra K-type probes I would be prepared to risk loosing. So I should perhaps try keeping track of the temperature. The one I put into the oven is way too slow to do any good.

I use a Lead Free Sn96.5Ag3.0Cu0.5 paste in a syringe from ChipQuick. I believe I got that because it was small enough not to be very expensive. It has lasted a long time by now anyway. Reading up, it looks like a pretty standard alloy for re-flowing.

I've been ordering stencils from http://smtstencil.co.uk/ Haven't tried anyone else yet. They are reasonably quick and cheap.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 25 November 2014, 06:56:21
glass jacketed k-types will shrug off those temperatures. i have a crapton from omega. let me know if you want some and i'll stuff them into standard connectors (they're flying lead right now) and send them off!

holy crap! it is a toaster! i was thinking toaster oven or small convection oven! that's gumption man
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Edsyn-Nick on Tue, 25 November 2014, 17:44:47
I have a pretty good intro to my setup in this thread http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/toaster-smd-re-flow-oven-t6861.html
....

That's AWESOME - we actually run a similar set up in our R&D for trying out new stencils.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 25 November 2014, 17:50:21
I have a pretty good intro to my setup in this thread http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/toaster-smd-re-flow-oven-t6861.html
....

That's AWESOME - we actually run a similar set up in our R&D for trying out new stencils.

Wow it's Edsyn! That's awesome as well.

I think I was most surprised that he was able to use a toaster instead of the more conventional toaster oven.
glass jacketed k-types will shrug off those temperatures. i have a crapton from omega. let me know if you want some and i'll stuff them into standard connectors (they're flying lead right now) and send them off!

YGPM
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 25 November 2014, 17:59:01
i don't have any PMs, but i think you've seen the packs of the things while digging through the millions of boxes in the oscilloscope room (it literally has a scope, a printer, and a signal generator in it OH and it also has my backup lifepo4 race battery sitting on a tender, so i just call it the scope room now)

i guess it has a bunch of thermocouples sitting in it too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Wed, 26 November 2014, 05:51:09
I will dig out the thermocouples I have at an appropriate time.. Meanwhile, yesterday I got some inspiration to finally do some planned upgrades to my toaster =) Added some more insulation, some extra mass and rigidity, removed some wires I didn't use, and the very slow thermocouple I had put in it. I also built the solid state relay with its potentiometer into a unit with a wall socket. My multimeter probes fits snugly into that black cable. Now I'll have a power index through the output voltage =D Up until a particular day in my life I was unaware of what the voltage across the potentiometer was, then I found out it is enough to tickle. Today I measured, and it is the full 224-two-holes-in-the-wall output. No more holding the potentiometer by the wires while turning it, yay for safety!

[attach=1]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 04 December 2014, 03:15:48
I'm going to get me some of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk//dp/B007TJ1TRI
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007OXBKDC

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71vIB4Ls3YL._SL1000_.jpg)

cheap, should make half decent pcb stands hopefully.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 05 December 2014, 12:47:01
I love magnet wire! makes hand wired matrix look good too as people go "ohhh isn't that going to short?" as they don't realise it's insulated :D

What gauge magnet wire do you use?  20?  22?  24?  right ballpark?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 06 December 2014, 16:13:03
I will dig out the thermocouples I have at an appropriate time.. Meanwhile, yesterday I got some inspiration to finally do some planned upgrades to my toaster =) Added some more insulation, some extra mass and rigidity, removed some wires I didn't use, and the very slow thermocouple I had put in it. I also built the solid state relay with its potentiometer into a unit with a wall socket. My multimeter probes fits snugly into that black cable. Now I'll have a power index through the output voltage =D Up until a particular day in my life I was unaware of what the voltage across the potentiometer was, then I found out it is enough to tickle. Today I measured, and it is the full 224-two-holes-in-the-wall output. No more holding the potentiometer by the wires while turning it, yay for safety!

(Attachment Link)
yes, because a repurposed toaster that hits 400+C to reflow solder is safe as long as you can't electrocute yourself on the power switch. ahaahahaa

no seriously kids. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. bpiph is a special type of crazy. i'm not saying that i am not also a special type of crazy, but i am saying that i've burned and electrocuted myself more times than i can count.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 06 December 2014, 21:20:53
i've burned and electrocuted myself more times than i can count.

I think the important thing to remember is that it never gets more fun.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 12 December 2014, 19:09:09
I love magnet wire! makes hand wired matrix look good too as people go "ohhh isn't that going to short?" as they don't realise it's insulated :D

What gauge magnet wire do you use?  20?  22?  24?  right ballpark?
i like 26-30 for magnet wire. anything smaller than that and you're fine with standard PU insulated stranded wire. embarassingly, i cannot deal with 28ga stranded PU insulated wire. is it really stranded if there are like 10 strands? i mean, c'mon! you want the guy with the 200$* wire stripper to strip PU off of 10 strands of #40 copper wire? CMON

*it was like 80, and it comes highly recommended: http://www.newark.com/weidmuller/stripax-0-8-10mm/wire-stripper-0-8-6mm/dp/24M7939?MER=PPSO_N_C_EverywhereElse_None

really, there is no better wire stripper design than the stripax. it's so good that literally every tool company has a licensed or blatant copy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 12 December 2014, 19:16:29
I love magnet wire! makes hand wired matrix look good too as people go "ohhh isn't that going to short?" as they don't realise it's insulated :D

What gauge magnet wire do you use?  20?  22?  24?  right ballpark?
i like 26-30 for magnet wire. anything smaller than that and you're fine with standard PU insulated stranded wire. embarassingly, i cannot deal with 28ga stranded PU insulated wire. is it really stranded if there are like 10 strands? i mean, c'mon! you want the guy with the 200$* wire stripper to strip PU off of 10 strands of #40 copper wire? CMON

*it was like 80, and it comes highly recommended: http://www.newark.com/weidmuller/stripax-0-8-10mm/wire-stripper-0-8-6mm/dp/24M7939?MER=PPSO_N_C_EverywhereElse_None

really, there is no better wire stripper design than the stripax. it's so good that literally every tool company has a licensed or blatant copy.
I have to admit I was expecting you to say closer to 22-24. Interesting. Thx...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 12 December 2014, 19:19:42
22 UL should be child's play for you. if it's not, something's up with your tooling  :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 12 December 2014, 19:44:38
22 UL should be child's play for you. if it's not, something's up with your tooling  :eek:
For sure it would be super easy to work with. Is there a benefit to going smaller that I am just missing?  I found 24 to be nice to work with. 26 multi strand was only annoying because of the multi strand aspect, as single strand it would be fine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 12 December 2014, 20:59:52
for low current signaling, the only reason we work with large gauge (< 28ga) wire is because working with tiny stranded wire is a huge pita, and 28ga solid core UL is kind of the worst of both worlds. it's not very flexible, because it's solid core, and actual OD is much larger than 28ga because of the insulation. it's also a huge pain to strip. even with a fairly high-end tool, you're going to nick a whole bunch of wire, and at the 28-30ga wire diameter, a nick is a big deal.

so you might as well just get magnet wire and melt the insulation off.

i actually just got some samples of some products that might make working with 28-30ga hookup a heck of a lot easier, and hence make multi-board direct wiring a heck of a lot easier, but i'm still staring at them at the moment. we'll see.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Fri, 12 December 2014, 21:04:48
for low current signaling, the only reason we work with large gauge (< 28ga) wire is because working with tiny stranded wire is a huge pita, and 28ga solid core UL is kind of the worst of both worlds. it's not very flexible, because it's solid core, and actual OD is much larger than 28ga because of the insulation. it's also a huge pain to strip. even with a fairly high-end tool, you're going to nick a whole bunch of wire, and at the 28-30ga wire diameter, a nick is a big deal.

so you might as well just get magnet wire and melt the insulation off.

i actually just got some samples of some products that might make working with 28-30ga hookup a heck of a lot easier, and hence make multi-board direct wiring a heck of a lot easier, but i'm still staring at them at the moment. we'll see.
Cool. Thx for the info. I will pick up some magnet wire.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 12 December 2014, 21:24:14
What about the magnet wire where the insulation acts as a flux when soldering?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 12 December 2014, 21:48:46
the acrylic enamel on magnet wire just burns at 350C. the chemicals we call fluxs are corrosive acidic solvents such that their corrosive action requires heat as a catalyst. acrylic goes amorphous and fluidic at temperature and then degrades and burns. in every state of matter at heat, it is a dieletric and is assaulting the wire with its non-conductive self. actual flux will atomize and vaporize the the acrylic and other impurities on the drawn wire so that you can solder to it cleanly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Tue, 16 December 2014, 18:26:31
Hiya, just wondering if I this solder is fine for usage ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/703-459-Lead-free-solder-0-6mm/dp/B000L97ZZ8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1418775258&sr=8-9&keywords=solder
I'm just gonna use it for a tkl sized board. Previously I got some kester 44 from a member here but I don't think it's sufficient for a whole tkl board.
If there's any other alternative which are priced reasonably, I wouldn't mind looking into it.
Thanks !
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 16 December 2014, 19:16:39
Hiya, just wondering if I this solder is fine for usage ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/703-459-Lead-free-solder-0-6mm/dp/B000L97ZZ8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1418775258&sr=8-9&keywords=solder
I'm just gonna use it for a tkl sized board. Previously I got some kester 44 from a member here but I don't think it's sufficient for a whole tkl board.
If there's any other alternative which are priced reasonably, I wouldn't mind looking into it.
Thanks !

If you can try and stay away from lead free.  It is more difficult to work with, requires a hotter iron, and as a result makes it much easier to lift pads when doing rework.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Tue, 16 December 2014, 19:25:23
Hiya, just wondering if I this solder is fine for usage ?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/703-459-Lead-free-solder-0-6mm/dp/B000L97ZZ8/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1418775258&sr=8-9&keywords=solder
I'm just gonna use it for a tkl sized board. Previously I got some kester 44 from a member here but I don't think it's sufficient for a whole tkl board.
If there's any other alternative which are priced reasonably, I wouldn't mind looking into it.
Thanks !

If you can try and stay away from lead free.  It is more difficult to work with, requires a hotter iron, and as a result makes it much easier to lift pads when doing rework.

I see, thanks.
So something like this should be fine then ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20G-TUBE-60-40-TIN-LEAD-SOLDER-WIRE-FLUX-COVERED-ELECTRICAL-SOLDERING-DIY-HOBBY-/181452656168?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item2a3f6bce28
And will 20G suffice for a soldering job for a tkl sized keyboard ?  :)
Thanks again!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 16 December 2014, 19:40:56
You will want 63/27 for the ratio.  There is some stuff going on at the melting temp that I don't remember specifics from but at certain ratios the solder will melt then you have to get it hotter in order for it to stick.  With 63/27 as soon as it melts, it sticks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Tue, 16 December 2014, 19:47:35
You will want 63/27 for the ratio.  There is some stuff going on at the melting temp that I don't remember specifics from but at certain ratios the solder will melt then you have to get it hotter in order for it to stick.  With 63/27 as soon as it melts, it sticks.

I can't find any 63/27 but there's this 63/37 one.
What bout this one ?  :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63-37-Tin-Solder-Welding-Iron-Wire-Lead-0-8mm-2-Rosin-Core-Flux-Reel-100G-UK-/400727408334?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5d4d36fece
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Tue, 16 December 2014, 19:53:31
You will want 63/27 for the ratio.  There is some stuff going on at the melting temp that I don't remember specifics from but at certain ratios the solder will melt then you have to get it hotter in order for it to stick.  With 63/27 as soon as it melts, it sticks.

I can't find any 63/27 but there's this 63/37 one.
What bout this one ?  :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63-37-Tin-Solder-Welding-Iron-Wire-Lead-0-8mm-2-Rosin-Core-Flux-Reel-100G-UK-/400727408334?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5d4d36fece

Yeah sorry I just had the ratio wrong you are correct with the 37.  Kester 44 is generally regarded as the go to solder for hobbyists but if it is tough to find I don't see why that wont work.  Not sure the type of flux that is in it so make sure that you clean the board good when you are done.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pichu23 on Tue, 16 December 2014, 20:03:39
You will want 63/27 for the ratio.  There is some stuff going on at the melting temp that I don't remember specifics from but at certain ratios the solder will melt then you have to get it hotter in order for it to stick.  With 63/27 as soon as it melts, it sticks.

I can't find any 63/27 but there's this 63/37 one.
What bout this one ?  :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63-37-Tin-Solder-Welding-Iron-Wire-Lead-0-8mm-2-Rosin-Core-Flux-Reel-100G-UK-/400727408334?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5d4d36fece

Yeah sorry I just had the ratio wrong you are correct with the 37.  Kester 44 is generally regarded as the go to solder for hobbyists but if it is tough to find I don't see why that wont work.  Not sure the type of flux that is in it so make sure that you clean the board good when you are done.

Yeah shipping's a bummer to the UK. Thanks a lot anyways ! :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 18 December 2014, 17:34:17
i wrote a bit about tin lead alloys and phase change behavior of alloyed metals here:

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/learn-to-solder-kit/talk#!97916

reproduced for convenience:

Quote from: me
eutectic (read: leaded) soldering alloys are significantly easier to work with because they melt at a much lower (read: safer) temperature, and are less likely to yield "cold joints" when cooled. "eutectic" means "behaves like a homogeneous substance", in that eutectic alloys have a single phase transition temperature in which the alloy goes from solid to liquid and back.

"cold" joints are caused by micro-fractures that develop as an alloy in liquid state is cooling. non-eutectic alloys have intra-alloy bulk sections that solidify before other sections of the mass, and very slight movement can cause these bits that are cooling out of phase to solidify in such a way as to leave large voids in the joint. These voids do not conduct electricity as well as a voidless mass of bulk material.

You may remember the famous "red ring of death" from the first generation of xbox 360s. cold joints that formed over long periods of heating and cooling cycles on bga balls was the root cause of that issue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 18 December 2014, 18:26:15
to get a little further into the weeds on that one, there are really two definitions of eutectic. the first is theoretical, and has to do with the physical chemistry of an ideal piece of bulk material in an ideal environment. the second is empirical, and like most things, reifies the theoretical assumptions and finds that life is just more complicated than those scientist pinheads could possibly imagine.

FIRST: the ideal theoretical definition

let us consider a single "grain" of the material in a vacuum with an instantaneous and perfect model of the effects of power exerted on the bulk material.

let's go over that sentence again. by "a single grain of material", i mean that the bulk material (imagine a block of solder) is a single continuous uninterrupted lattice (linear algebraic and not abstract algebraic) of the component molecules of the alloy. for simplicity, let's just imagine a single cube where each edge of the cube is a bond between constituent molecules.

now let's put that cube of metal in space. ta-da! it's in space.

ok, by ideal model of power, what i mean is that, when you use energy to heat the block of metal, every part of the block is always at the same temperature. (more clearly, the entropy of each constituent structure is equal at all times). if you heat any bit, you heat all the bits and v.v.

so with many unrealistic assumptions established, we define a eutectic substance to be one for which that single piece of material of ours releases all its bonds at exactly the same time when it reaches the single "melting temperature". so our lead/tin alloy, for example, goes from being a block of lead/tin hybrid material to a pot of lead and tin liquids floating around the instant it hits its melting temperature.

THE SECOND: empirical definition

in practice, we just want to know if the alloy is _indistinguishable_ from an alloy that is eutectic. that is, can we, with the best of our current technology, measure the difference in melting points of the constituent parts of the alloy?

to see why this is a tricky and important distinction, let's step back for a second and look at this block of material again and start blowing away our theoretical assumptions. first, in practice a single piece of bulk material is effectively NEVER a single "grain" of uninterrupted structure. in fact, that is the the crux of material science. if all materials just kind of formed their perfect ideal shapes when you shoved all the atoms together, we wouldn't need all these fancy carbon fibers, fiber fibers, silk fibers, and super comfortable fleec... ok, sorry, it's cold here.

anyway, so in actuality, if you take an imaging device like an "x-ray" imager and shoot a bunch of high energy high frequency little energy thingamabobs at a piece of steel, what you're actually going to see is a random pattern of solid material that looks well structured, and between these will be some form of misshapen solid and finally, there will be bits of "void", that is, empty space. so you can just cross this assumption off the list with prejudice.

next, energy takes time to do work, and hence, material properties like temperature take time to propagate through a piece of bulk solid. in fact, it's a double whammy, since we learned above that the solid isn't even a completely uniform solid! so the energy expended is doing more work in the solid regions and less work in the voided regions. oof!

finally, we're not in space (but i wish we were :( ), so there will be the competing effects of atmospheric gases cooling the outside of the material, the potential for things like gas and water to have gotten into the material lattices and be filling the voids, etc.

SO, in practice, the useful measure of whether a material is eutectic or not is whether we can successfully observe a point in the material's phase change behavior in which we see liquidus of one constituent of the alloy but solidus of another. we can look at this behavior using a few tools. one is called a differential scanning calorimeter. another neat one is called electron energy loss or energy-dispersive spectroscopy (two closely related methods actually). the way to think about all of these is that you're looking for the number of atomic units of each constituent metal of the alloy at every step of the phase change. a perfect eutectic material will always measure out to the constituent ratios of the alloy at all points in the melting process. however, there is wiggle room in our ability to measure, which is reflected in the word "always". replace "always" with "as quickly as we can measure it", and you have a good empirical definition.

basically, if we can't identify a point at which we have more of one constituent metal melted than the others, we empirically say that the material is euctetic.

OK, out of the weeds! aren't you happy?

there are a number of effective eutectic and actually eutectic tin alloys out there, but they generally have high silver content, which makes them significantly more expensive. they also have issues with material creep over time due to mechanical disruption, and some other stuff. however, as a hobbyist, there really isn't any reason to forgo the lead in your solder. you're making a handful of parts, not shipping millions of parts around the world. use the easiest/cheapest and most practical solder possible. that happens to be 63/37 sn/pb. it's theoretically and practically eutectic, has a low, safer melting point, and is pretty darned cheap. the result is workhorse solder that's easy to work with and builds one's confidence.

and that's how a lot of science turns into a gut decision about money.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Bucake on Fri, 19 December 2014, 00:28:15
i've been interested in lubing my plate-mounted keyboard for a long while, but i've never soldered in my life (and i don't own any soldering equipment).

so, what would be a good place for me to start..?
i want my equipment to be reliable and last me a long while, but of course it doesn't have to be too fancy.
it's likely i'll only use the soldering equipment for things like swapping switches or lube parts of mice/keyboards.

what would be a solid soldering iron for someone like me?
and what will i definitely need, beside the soldering iron itself?
(i ask so i won't forget to buy a necessity.. :D)

there really is no budget yet. i'm simply still too ignorant to set a budget.
it certainly doesn't have to be cheap. (i value good quality!)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: loud_asian on Sat, 20 December 2014, 05:33:23
The solder pad on one of my LEDs got burnt off on my Pure. How would I go about fixing this?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 20 December 2014, 08:19:47
a couple different options. i'll list some offhand, but if you search through the thread, you'll find plenty more.

1) find another pad that is (well, was) connected to the damaged pad and solder a jumper wire from that pad to the component leg

2) scrape off a bit of pcb mask to expose the trace that led to the damaged pad. note that you may have to do this anyway to find another pad to run a jumper wire from. solder the component to that bit of trace

3) use a conductive pen to "draw" a new pad. there are silver-based conductive pens out there, but they are a HUGE pain in the ass to use. i highly recommend a graphite conductive ink like bare conductive instead. it has higher resistance than silver, but for a tiny little solder pad it's negligible. the trick is that it won't tin, so you're still soldering to the exposed trace that you scratched the mask off of, but you get a better electrical connection because the ink is sitting under the solder blob.

4) epoxy a new pad on using something like chip-quik repair pads. they use conductive epoxies and new pads of the proper size and material. this is the proper way to do repair and rework, but it's kind of a pain in the butt. you have to apply the epoxy using a very precise tool and then place the new pad using a very precise tool, then wait for the epoxy to fully care, and then be incredibly careful when soldering to the new pad. chip-quik pad sets are also pretty expensive, and for small pads, you need to be doing all of this under a loupe.

hope that helps. search the thread for some nice pictures of ad hoc repairs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 21 December 2014, 23:58:30
Hey, I was hoping for some help finding soldering iron tips. I own a Weller 40W (this (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3SG7F0/)) and I need some conical pencil tips.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: joey on Sun, 28 December 2014, 07:21:24
Can anyone recommend a good soldering iron/station and where to get it in the UK?

Has anyone bought the Hakko FX888D from http://www.dancap.co.uk/soldering/fx888D.html ? Since lots of people recommend this.. seems like it would be a good buy.
I also came across http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/ but I haven't looked at it too closely yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dgsbllx on Sun, 28 December 2014, 07:26:28
Can anyone recommend a good soldering iron/station and where to get it in the UK?

Has anyone bought the Hakko FX888D from http://www.dancap.co.uk/soldering/fx888D.html ? Since lots of people recommend this.. seems like it would be a good buy.
I also came across http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/ but I haven't looked at it too closely yet.

Mine came from Dancap on the recommendation of someone else from here (name evades me at the minute   :confused:). Definitely worth a purchase, both the iron and Dancap are brilliant.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: joey on Mon, 29 December 2014, 06:30:53
Can anyone recommend a good soldering iron/station and where to get it in the UK?

Has anyone bought the Hakko FX888D from http://www.dancap.co.uk/soldering/fx888D.html ? Since lots of people recommend this.. seems like it would be a good buy.
I also came across http://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/ but I haven't looked at it too closely yet.

Mine came from Dancap on the recommendation of someone else from here (name evades me at the minute   :confused:). Definitely worth a purchase, both the iron and Dancap are brilliant.
I just went ahead and bought from Dancap!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Wed, 31 December 2014, 17:10:52
Maybe some can shed some light on this. Used my 80w radio Shack Station to do some work last night. And when I tried to use it today, it makes a clicking sound and won't display anything on the screen. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 31 December 2014, 21:13:04
Maybe some can shed some light on this. Used my 80w radio Shack Station to do some work last night. And when I tried to use it today, it makes a clicking sound and won't display anything on the screen.
Cheap crap. Buy a new one. Buy something of quality this time, it will save you money in the long run.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: quochung1989 on Thu, 01 January 2015, 19:51:28
What solder wick is the best? NTE (http://www.parts-express.com/nte-sw01-5-no-clean-wick-3-green-0075-x-5-ft--341-550) SW01-5 No-Clean Wick #3 Green 0.075" x 5 ft.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 02 January 2015, 15:53:47
not crazy about NTE anything. chemtronics, alphametals (now just alpha: http://alpha.alent.com/), MG chemicals, kester are all high quality chemicals and soldering consumables manufacturers. i would stick to them.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Sat, 03 January 2015, 12:57:42
So I got an FX-888D for christmas and some Kester 44 63/37, what is the best temp for this?  I keep seeing 361F.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dorkvader on Sat, 03 January 2015, 22:41:42
So I got an FX-888D for christmas and some Kester 44 63/37, what is the best temp for this?  I keep seeing 361F.

Depends on what you're soldering of course. And your preference. If you set your iron hotter, you can get the solder and pad heated faster and move quicker (and possibly give less heat to the component) lower temperatures are safer in other ways.

I set my pace to about 500 - 650F (or higher) depending. I think you were seeing 361C in places maybe? Solder only melts at around 360F
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jacobolus on Sun, 04 January 2015, 05:14:36
You want to set your temperature such that, with whatever size tip and joint you’re dealing with, you can heat the joint enough to melt solder within 2–3 seconds. I find ~600–650° F on a Hakko 888D works pretty well on most through-hole keyboard stuff with a smallish chisel tip (both for soldering and desoldering).

The important quantity is not temperature per se, but heat flow to the joint. I recommend watching those Pace soldering videos (from the 70s or something) to understand the basics.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sun, 04 January 2015, 06:48:57
I usually set 310-320°C for almost every thing except for connector and huge ground pattern, 350 for those. I use leaded solder.
I use counterfeit Hakko tip thermometer I got from eBay. It works and better than nothing at least. I don't trust temp dial of my station.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sun, 04 January 2015, 09:09:18
yes, because a repurposed toaster that hits 400+C to reflow solder is safe as long as you can't electrocute yourself on the power switch. ahaahahaa

no seriously kids. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. bpiph is a special type of crazy. i'm not saying that i am not also a special type of crazy, but i am saying that i've burned and electrocuted myself more times than i can count.

Special - I am very honored =)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 05 January 2015, 18:48:42
Quote
POWER VS TEMPERATURE

Power is a unit of _work_ in the physical sense. Temperature is a _property of matter_, again, in the physical sense. Power can do work such as raising the temperature of something. Power is also necessary to lower the temperature of something. Power is measured in Watts, also known as Joules per second. A Joule is a unit of energy. Hence, power is energy expended over time.

On the other hand, think of temperature as the "disorderliness" of matter. The higher the temperature of a compound, the more the little atomic bits of the compound are actively moving around. If they move around _too_ fast, you can get into trouble, but metals can typically tolerate very very high temperatures (think 1200C) before they start causing trouble. This is not true for the chemicals that we call "flux", but let's ignore that for now.

HENCE, we expend energy over time, with our soldering irons, to raise the temperature of metal soldering alloys. The more energy we use per unit time, the more quickly the things we use the energy on will get hot. Cool!

However, there's an important corollary here. Variable _power_ tools are not the same as variable _temperature_ tools, and fixed power tools are not the same as fixed temperature tools. Further, when soldering, what is important is _temperature_, not power.

Why? Matter changes phase (solid to liquid, liquid to gas) at temperature boundaries. 63/37 tin to lead ratio soldering alloy changes from solid to liquid at 287C. Note that we have made no statement about the amount of power required. However, all else equal, more energy per unit time will raise the temperature of the soldering alloy faster. However, it will also raise the temperature of all the things that are thermally connected to the soldering alloy faster as well.

One of the most common discouraging mistakes that I typically see in people who are dipping their feet into soldering is accidental burning of components or circuit boards or skin (and more power turned a 1st degree burn into a 3rd degree burn ever so quickly..). Less power makes it harder to burn components. However, we still need to reach the melting point of the solder, so there is a balance between power and temperature.

This is thephysical principal that guided my choice of soldering irons. The Edsyn CL1481 iron is rated at 30W, that is, 30 Joules of energy per second. However, the heater that expends this energy into the joint self-regulates such that the temperature of the tip stays constant at ~370C.

Hence, if I hold the CL1481 iron to a joint a period of time that is not arbitrarily long, the iron will expend enough energy to bring the joint up to 370C (which we call equilibrium), and then the rate of temperature increase will actually plateau.

The upshot of this is that the designer of this iron, who is not me, but who was quite brilliant, designed an iron that will bring soldering joints up to processing temperature, but not much higher, making burning of components very difficult.

With both variable temperature and especially variable power irons, especially with poor quality control and components of dubious origin, the property above is extremely hard to achieve.

basically, set your iron to the processing temperature. a good heating element will expend a fixed amount of power (which remember is work/time, so "fixed amount of power" means that the element will always pump the same amount of energy into the junction per unit time). the temperature control tells your iron when to stop pumping energy into the junction. there are subtleties to this because of diffusion, but the general idea is that anything connected to the tip with (what we model as) zero thermal resistance is going to sit at the set temp.

oh, and the processing temperature is determined by the flux, not the solder alloy. kester 63/37 RA has a 350C processing temp.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tgujay on Tue, 06 January 2015, 10:46:38
Quote
POWER VS TEMPERATURE

Power is a unit of _work_ in the physical sense. Temperature is a _property of matter_, again, in the physical sense. Power can do work such as raising the temperature of something. Power is also necessary to lower the temperature of something. Power is measured in Watts, also known as Joules per second. A Joule is a unit of energy. Hence, power is energy expended over time.

On the other hand, think of temperature as the "disorderliness" of matter. The higher the temperature of a compound, the more the little atomic bits of the compound are actively moving around. If they move around _too_ fast, you can get into trouble, but metals can typically tolerate very very high temperatures (think 1200C) before they start causing trouble. This is not true for the chemicals that we call "flux", but let's ignore that for now.

HENCE, we expend energy over time, with our soldering irons, to raise the temperature of metal soldering alloys. The more energy we use per unit time, the more quickly the things we use the energy on will get hot. Cool!

However, there's an important corollary here. Variable _power_ tools are not the same as variable _temperature_ tools, and fixed power tools are not the same as fixed temperature tools. Further, when soldering, what is important is _temperature_, not power.

Why? Matter changes phase (solid to liquid, liquid to gas) at temperature boundaries. 63/37 tin to lead ratio soldering alloy changes from solid to liquid at 287C. Note that we have made no statement about the amount of power required. However, all else equal, more energy per unit time will raise the temperature of the soldering alloy faster. However, it will also raise the temperature of all the things that are thermally connected to the soldering alloy faster as well.

One of the most common discouraging mistakes that I typically see in people who are dipping their feet into soldering is accidental burning of components or circuit boards or skin (and more power turned a 1st degree burn into a 3rd degree burn ever so quickly..). Less power makes it harder to burn components. However, we still need to reach the melting point of the solder, so there is a balance between power and temperature.

This is thephysical principal that guided my choice of soldering irons. The Edsyn CL1481 iron is rated at 30W, that is, 30 Joules of energy per second. However, the heater that expends this energy into the joint self-regulates such that the temperature of the tip stays constant at ~370C.

Hence, if I hold the CL1481 iron to a joint a period of time that is not arbitrarily long, the iron will expend enough energy to bring the joint up to 370C (which we call equilibrium), and then the rate of temperature increase will actually plateau.

The upshot of this is that the designer of this iron, who is not me, but who was quite brilliant, designed an iron that will bring soldering joints up to processing temperature, but not much higher, making burning of components very difficult.

With both variable temperature and especially variable power irons, especially with poor quality control and components of dubious origin, the property above is extremely hard to achieve.

basically, set your iron to the processing temperature. a good heating element will expend a fixed amount of power (which remember is work/time, so "fixed amount of power" means that the element will always pump the same amount of energy into the junction per unit time). the temperature control tells your iron when to stop pumping energy into the junction. there are subtleties to this because of diffusion, but the general idea is that anything connected to the tip with (what we model as) zero thermal resistance is going to sit at the set temp.

oh, and the processing temperature is determined by the flux, not the solder alloy. kester 63/37 RA has a 350C processing temp.

Thanks for this!  I finally have a nice iron I just want to use it well and not burn ****.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Tue, 06 January 2015, 23:21:29
I'm looking to purchase a desoldering pump similar to a Hakko 808/FR300. Any suggestions for retailers?  Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 January 2015, 06:55:20
hakko aggressively enforces minimum advertised pricing on its authorized retailers, so it's often hard to get a deal on the products that are hard to do gray market parallel importation on like the 808 and fr300. look for site-wide coupons at all-spec, tequipment.net etc.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Wed, 07 January 2015, 09:06:32
hakko aggressively enforces minimum advertised pricing on its authorized retailers, so it's often hard to get a deal on the products that are hard to do gray market parallel importation on like the 808 and fr300. look for site-wide coupons at all-spec, tequipment.net etc.

I'm not looking for a deal, but it's just hard to find them here in Canada. Any big websites you recommend in addition to the one you provided earlier? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 07 January 2015, 19:02:38
all-spec, techni-tool, tequipment, newark, MCM electronics, stanley supply are all good tool vendors. mouser and digikey only really carry hyper specialty tools. if you need that one AMP approved tool for a single connector type so that you can produce a thousand mil-spec assemblies, then the big component houses are a great option. otherwise, i've never had a bad experience with any of the above suppliers.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dreamre on Wed, 07 January 2015, 19:22:54
all-spec, techni-tool, tequipment, newark, MCM electronics, stanley supply are all good tool vendors. mouser and digikey only really carry hyper specialty tools. if you need that one AMP approved tool for a single connector type so that you can produce a thousand mil-spec assemblies, then the big component houses are a great option. otherwise, i've never had a bad experience with any of the above suppliers.

I got my god brother to pick me up a set from the US from B+D Enterprises for $230 (http://www.bdent.com/hakko-fr-300-desoldering-tool.html). Hope it turns out alright. Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: timsbleung on Sat, 10 January 2015, 19:14:18
Question (hopefully this is the right place ti ask this)

I've been working on a phantom keyboard. Currently I have no plans to have LEDs as I will probably be using a case with no LED slots, but I would like to leave the possibility open for the future.

Of course once I get the plate on and all the keys soldered on, it will be very hard to solder on the resistors, as I will have to remove the plate. The LEDs, on the other hand, go over the plate (I think), so I think they woiuld not be that hard to solder on.

Which got me wondering - is it OK to solder on the resistors but leave the LEDs off for now? Would that be alright to do? Or do they always have to be coupled with an LED or somegthing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 10 January 2015, 19:22:27

Question (hopefully this is the right place ti ask this)

I've been working on a phantom keyboard. Currently I have no plans to have LEDs as I will probably be using a case with no LED slots, but I would like to leave the possibility open for the future.

Of course once I get the plate on and all the keys soldered on, it will be very hard to solder on the resistors, as I will have to remove the plate. The LEDs, on the other hand, go over the plate (I think), so I think they woiuld not be that hard to solder on.

Which got me wondering - is it OK to solder on the resistors but leave the LEDs off for now? Would that be alright to do? Or do they always have to be coupled with an LED or somegthing.

Depends on the board, but I imagine you'd be okay. May be a good opportunity for some SIP sockets so you can stick in the LEDs later without soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: timsbleung on Sat, 10 January 2015, 19:45:21

Question (hopefully this is the right place ti ask this)

I've been working on a phantom keyboard. Currently I have no plans to have LEDs as I will probably be using a case with no LED slots, but I would like to leave the possibility open for the future.

Of course once I get the plate on and all the keys soldered on, it will be very hard to solder on the resistors, as I will have to remove the plate. The LEDs, on the other hand, go over the plate (I think), so I think they woiuld not be that hard to solder on.

Which got me wondering - is it OK to solder on the resistors but leave the LEDs off for now? Would that be alright to do? Or do they always have to be coupled with an LED or somegthing.

Depends on the board, but I imagine you'd be okay. May be a good opportunity for some SIP sockets so you can stick in the LEDs later without soldering.


It's just the phantom PCB that you can get on mechanicalkeyboards.com

I will take a look into SIP sockets
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:26:31
I am trying to get the solder out of the Poker 2 led slots with solder wick, but it will not come out now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Evo_Spec on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:35:05
I am trying to get the solder out of the Poker 2 led slots with solder wick, but it will not come out now.
Try adding some more solder to it then use the wick again.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:35:40
I am trying to get the solder out of the Poker 2 led slots with solder wick, but it will not come out now.
Try adding some more solder to it then use the wick again.
Thanks, will report back.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:42:03
I am trying to get the solder out of the Poker 2 led slots with solder wick, but it will not come out now.
Try adding some more solder to it then use the wick again.
Reporting back, did not work. Will look into buying a solder sucker.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Evo_Spec on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:45:37
I am trying to get the solder out of the Poker 2 led slots with solder wick, but it will not come out now.
Try adding some more solder to it then use the wick again.
Reporting back, did not work. Will look into buying a solder sucker.
I had this problem as well, it was such a hassle trying to use solder wick. Whenever it did work I had no idea what I did right but I am still a pretty big soldering noob so...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 10 January 2015, 20:46:01

I am trying to get the solder out of the Poker 2 led slots with solder wick, but it will not come out now.
Try adding some more solder to it then use the wick again.
Reporting back, did not work. Will look into buying a solder sucker.
I had this problem as well, it was such a hassle trying to use solder wick. Whenever it did work I had no idea what I did right but I am still a pretty big soldering noob so...
So am I
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:12:15
For anyone looking for a solder sucker, I can't recommend the edsyns from www.geekhackers.org enough.  They are the best short of getting the Hakko desoldering iron or better.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MGH on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:13:17
For anyone looking for a solder sucker, I can't recommend the edsyns from www.geekhackers.org enough.  They are the best short of getting the Hakko desoldering iron or better.
Sold out :/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:17:35
Amazon.  I will check the model number on mine or you could check and see if you can make out a model number for that site.  This is something that I would gladly spend the extra money for an authentic part and not a clone.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:40:27
Amazon.  I will check the model number on mine or you could check and see if you can make out a model number for that site.  This is something that I would gladly spend the extra money for an authentic part and not a clone.

The fakes/clones are very tricky to distinguish at times from the real thing just as an FYI for anyone who sees a deal that is too good to be true, it probably is.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:43:06
Amazon.  I will check the model number on mine or you could check and see if you can make out a model number for that site.  This is something that I would gladly spend the extra money for an authentic part and not a clone.

The fakes/clones are very tricky to distinguish at times from the real thing just as an FYI for anyone who sees a deal that is too good to be true, it probably is.
Do people make clones of solder suckers?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Sat, 10 January 2015, 23:51:07
I have been meening to buy one of those. I actually recently found an interesting technique for de soldering especially tricky joints, e.g. ICs, LEDs (damn you square pads). If you have a compressor you can actually heat up the joint with an iron in your right hand and then blast a bit of air onto it. The solder gets blown off the joint completely leaving no tricky residue or anything around the pin. Of course that solder has to go somewhere (generally it splatters right next to the pad) but you can easily clean it up by quickly running the iron over the mess and having it wisk onto it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Sun, 11 January 2015, 00:08:52
Amazon.  I will check the model number on mine or you could check and see if you can make out a model number for that site.  This is something that I would gladly spend the extra money for an authentic part and not a clone.

The fakes/clones are very tricky to distinguish at times from the real thing just as an FYI for anyone who sees a deal that is too good to be true, it probably is.
Do people make clones of solder suckers?

Very good ones with the same packaging and everything. And if it is a popular item they make clones of it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 15 January 2015, 19:13:06
i've been talking with both massdrop and edsyn about making genuine soldapullts more available with or without the geekhackers changes. once i get off my butt, i should be able to get that show back on the road.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Fri, 16 January 2015, 05:13:49
i've been talking with both massdrop and edsyn about making genuine soldapullts more available with or without the geekhackers changes. once i get off my butt, i should be able to get that show back on the road.
The best way to get the real thing is order one from Edsyn direct at http://edsyn.com/ or wait for geekhackers to restock.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 17 January 2015, 11:37:09
i've been talking with both massdrop and edsyn about making genuine soldapullts more available with or without the geekhackers changes. once i get off my butt, i should be able to get that show back on the road.

Please bring back the Soldapult rebuild kits!  I use my Hakko 808 99% of the time, but when I need just a couple of joints done I use my DS-017 and I hate it.  It damages less pads than my clone, but it needs a Kawa makeover kit.  My clone has a lock for the hand plunger to make it travel-toolbag friendly, so it stays at work.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Sat, 17 January 2015, 15:08:38
I have been meening to buy one of those. I actually recently found an interesting technique for de soldering especially tricky joints, e.g. ICs, LEDs (damn you square pads). If you have a compressor you can actually heat up the joint with an iron in your right hand and then blast a bit of air onto it. The solder gets blown off the joint completely leaving no tricky residue or anything around the pin. Of course that solder has to go somewhere (generally it splatters right next to the pad) but you can easily clean it up by quickly running the iron over the mess and having it wisk onto it.

I found for through-hole parts you can actually hold the board vertically, and heat the solder from one side and suck through from the other rather than holding the sucker next to the iron and trying to suck the solder sideways away from the joint. Perhaps this is a really obvious thing but it didn't occur to me at first..

The best way to get the real thing is order one from Edsyn direct at http://edsyn.com/ or wait for geekhackers to restock.

Element14/Farnell (I think they are Newark in the US) also stock a few models. At one point I picked up a SS750LS for $10 AUD, though I am not sure how seeing as the price is now double that :P
Still, if you don't want to wait for geekhackers, or are in any of the other countries Element14 have warehouses, it might be an option.


On an unrelated note, Hakko gear is ridiculously expensive here in Australia (Pretty sure I ranted in this thread 6 months ago about having to pay double for no good reason). I ended up getting one of these Goot stations (http://www.goot.jp/en/handakote/px-601/):

(http://www.goot.jp/en/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/PX-601_Eye-catch.jpg)

Fast heating, temperature controlled. Cost me about $90 shipped. Done everything from SMT to appliance repairs with it. Just thought it would be an option for those whom Hakko shaft on pricing (still looking at $220+ for Hakko here in Australia).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 19 January 2015, 02:29:17
De-soldering the easy way

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 19 January 2015, 18:49:28
i've been talking with both massdrop and edsyn about making genuine soldapullts more available with or without the geekhackers changes. once i get off my butt, i should be able to get that show back on the road.

Please bring back the Soldapult rebuild kits!  I use my Hakko 808 99% of the time, but when I need just a couple of joints done I use my DS-017 and I hate it.  It damages less pads than my clone, but it needs a Kawa makeover kit.  My clone has a lock for the hand plunger to make it travel-toolbag friendly, so it stays at work.
in the near future i may be limited to selling full geekhackers units only. it's not really clear at this point. i'm pushing on a couple of different directions, and have no idea which one will be a good way forward. in the meantime, please feel free to follow along in the geekhackers.org vendor forum.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MJ45 on Tue, 20 January 2015, 06:46:09
Edsyn still has their anniversary "gold" edtion for 36.50 USD. http://www.edsyn.com/product/AS196-G.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 20 January 2015, 07:06:25
the metallized versions have slightly worse sealing characteristics because the metallization throws the barrel a little out of tolerance.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MGH on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:44:26
My soldering iron (yihua 936) broke today  :-\

Need a sub $50 iron (preferably via amazon so I can get 2 day shipping, but am fine with other sites). The edsyn in the OP is $90 :'(

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:48:39
http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422247672&sr=8-1&keywords=weller+wlc100

For the price this is a tough iron to beat.  It does heat up slow but I don't have anything bad to say about mine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MGH on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:52:02
http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422247672&sr=8-1&keywords=weller+wlc100

For the price this is a tough iron to beat.  It does heat up slow but I don't have anything bad to say about mine.
I don't mind waiting for it to heat up. I usually prep everything while that happens ;D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sun, 25 January 2015, 22:54:57
http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422247672&sr=8-1&keywords=weller+wlc100

For the price this is a tough iron to beat.  It does heat up slow but I don't have anything bad to say about mine.
I don't mind waiting for it to heat up. I usually prep everything while that happens ;D

Gotcha, yeah it really is a pretty solid iron, I run leaded solder at around 3 and a half on the dial.  I have no idea what the temp at the tip is but works and doesn't seem to hot.  Leaded I usually max out, add some leaded solder to each pad and just back it down to actually desolder stuff with my sold a pult.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MGH on Tue, 27 January 2015, 01:11:39
I'm actually going to buy one of these $15 hakko one temp irons:
http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-508-1-Solder-Iron-Lightweight/dp/B009SCL4AQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1422342185&sr=8-2&keywords=hakko+soldering+iron&pebp=1422342193108&peasin=B009SCL4AQ

until I get enough to buy a Hakko FX888D or something else.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pr0ximity on Mon, 02 February 2015, 09:18:47
Best soldering iron for $100 or less? I'd imagine there's something better than an Edsyn CL1481 in that range?

I found the Hakko FX888D on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8) for $91, how much bang for my buck is that?

Until now I've just used the cheapest iron I could find at Radioshack, but it's in pretty rough shape having not really been maintained as it was kind of a one-off for some soldering I did a year ago. Looking to put in my xwhatsit controller and likely build a custom in the coming year or so, so I'd like to hav something that will last and perform well if taken care of properly. From what I understand I think I'd like something with variable temp (unless that comes at the expense of quality)?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 02 February 2015, 09:28:23
Best soldering iron for $100 or less? I'd imagine there's something better than an Edsyn CL1481 in that range?

I found the Hakko FX888D on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8) for $91, how much bang for my buck is that?

Until now I've just used the cheapest iron I could find at Radioshack, but it's in pretty rough shape having not really been maintained as it was kind of a one-off for some soldering I did a year ago. Looking to put in my xwhatsit controller and likely build a custom in the coming year or so, so I'd like to hav something that will last and perform well if taken care of properly. From what I understand I think I'd like something with variable temp (unless that comes at the expense of quality)?

You will find varying opinions on the Hakko FX-888D. I used one for a year, and never had one problem. But some people, after a teardown look inside, have come to the conclusion that the stations are very cheaply made, and therefore may not last. As always, YMMV. I personally think it's a nice starter package.

You could also look at the Weller WESD51. It's another fine entry level station.

If your budget can handle it, you might be able to pick up a used Hakko FX-951, FP-101, or FM-202 station for just a bit more. Those are professional level stations, which should last you a long, long time. You will probably have to do some research into which iron handle is compatible with which base, as they are usually sold separately when buying used. And of course, get the tips which match your handle.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Mon, 02 February 2015, 10:54:21
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Mon, 02 February 2015, 11:12:56
I think this is an awesome deal - http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481-K.html (http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481-K.html)

I was going to get it when I was looking for a station but a GH member hooked me up with an Edsyn variable station that I couldn't refuse.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Mon, 02 February 2015, 11:15:46
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Hakko makes great stuff, pair it with an edsyn soldapump and you are all set :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 02 February 2015, 11:21:26
Maybe this got lost on the previous page...

You will find varying opinions on the Hakko FX-888D. I used one for a year, and never had one problem. But some people, after a teardown look inside, have come to the conclusion that the stations are very cheaply made, and therefore may not last. As always, YMMV. I personally think it's a nice starter package.

You could also look at the Weller WESD51. It's another fine entry level station.

If your budget can handle it, you might be able to pick up a used Hakko FX-951, FP-101, or FM-202 station for just a bit more. Those are professional level stations, which should last you a long, long time. You will probably have to do some research into which iron handle is compatible with which base, as they are usually sold separately when buying used. And of course, get the tips which match your handle.

Also, you can look for used Hakko 936.

For desoldering, always buy Edsyn Soldapullt. You can get them direct from Edsyn at (818) 989-2324.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Mon, 02 February 2015, 11:41:42
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Hakko makes great stuff, pair it with an edsyn soldapump and you are all set :thumb:

I would like to get the Hakko FX888D and a Soldapullt, but it's way out of my price range. The cheapest I can find the Hakko for is $130CAD, and the Soldapullt is about $60. Plus I still need solder wire, maybe tips, flux, on top of the station and pump.

I couldn't find anything used either, unfortunately.

Maybe I'm out of luck for soldering for awhile.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Mon, 02 February 2015, 11:43:50
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Hakko makes great stuff, pair it with an edsyn soldapump and you are all set :thumb:

I would like to get the Hakko FX888D and a Soldapullt, but it's way out of my price range. The cheapest I can find the Hakko for is $130CAD, and the Soldapullt is about $60. Plus I still need solder wire, maybe tips, flux, on top of the station and pump.

I couldn't find anything used either, unfortunately.

Maybe I'm out of luck for soldering for awhile.

I could proxy one with your phantom if you would like?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Mon, 02 February 2015, 11:47:32
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Hakko makes great stuff, pair it with an edsyn soldapump and you are all set :thumb:

I would like to get the Hakko FX888D and a Soldapullt, but it's way out of my price range. The cheapest I can find the Hakko for is $130CAD, and the Soldapullt is about $60. Plus I still need solder wire, maybe tips, flux, on top of the station and pump.

I couldn't find anything used either, unfortunately.

Maybe I'm out of luck for soldering for awhile.

I could proxy one with your phantom if you would like?

It would go well with your surprise :p :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Mon, 02 February 2015, 12:14:56
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Hakko makes great stuff, pair it with an edsyn soldapump and you are all set :thumb:

I would like to get the Hakko FX888D and a Soldapullt, but it's way out of my price range. The cheapest I can find the Hakko for is $130CAD, and the Soldapullt is about $60. Plus I still need solder wire, maybe tips, flux, on top of the station and pump.

I couldn't find anything used either, unfortunately.

Maybe I'm out of luck for soldering for awhile.

I could proxy one with your phantom if you would like?

It would go well with your surprise :p :thumb:

If the price ends up being better that would be great. I don't mind used either.

I'm not sure where to look for a used FX888D, I checked eBay.ca and my local classifieds, and couldn't find anything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: DrHubblePhD on Mon, 02 February 2015, 12:16:40
So I'm looking into learning how to solder, but I want to buy something decent that will last for awhile.. but I also have a bit of a tight budget.

I've found a few things in my price range so far, I'd love to hear some opinions on them. I'd love some suggestions of other stations, and an affordable de-soldering tool suggestion would be great too.

Here are the stations I've been looking at:

http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering (http://www.amazon.ca/Sigma-60D-Lead-Free-Soldering-Real-time/dp/B00MBQ41NS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891975&sr=8-5&keywords=desoldering)

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000VINMRO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1FSCB8N4XVP5G#productDetails)

This one is a little out of my price range, but I might be able to spring for it:

http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station (http://www.amazon.ca/Aoyue-937-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000I30QBW/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1422891605&sr=8-6&keywords=soldering+station)

The Sigma 60D is obviously the best deal, as it comes with a heap of accessories, but I'm not sure if it's garbage or not.

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks guys.

Hakko makes great stuff, pair it with an edsyn soldapump and you are all set :thumb:

I would like to get the Hakko FX888D and a Soldapullt, but it's way out of my price range. The cheapest I can find the Hakko for is $130CAD, and the Soldapullt is about $60. Plus I still need solder wire, maybe tips, flux, on top of the station and pump.

I couldn't find anything used either, unfortunately.

Maybe I'm out of luck for soldering for awhile.

I could proxy one with your phantom if you would like?

It would go well with your surprise :p :thumb:

If the price ends up being better that would be great. I don't mind used either.

I'm not sure where to look for a used FX888D, I checked eBay.ca and my local classifieds, and couldn't find anything.

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422900949&sr=8-1&keywords=hakko+fx+888&pebp=1422900957108&peasin=B00AWUFVY8&pebp=1422900957113&peasin=B00AWUFVY8 

a bit pricey, ill look for something used.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: effectiveduck on Mon, 16 February 2015, 05:43:57
Is it ok to use a cheap $15 iron + solder kit for a single 60% keyboard job?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 16 February 2015, 09:53:34
Is it ok to use a cheap $15 iron + solder kit for a single 60% keyboard job?

That would all depend on how competent you are at soldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Mon, 16 February 2015, 10:06:01
Is it ok to use a cheap $15 iron + solder kit for a single 60% keyboard job?

That would all depend on how competent you are at soldering.
And also what you plan on soldering. If it is all through hole and no LEDs(in case you need to desolder) and if you don't need to desolder at all, then I think it would work.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Mon, 16 February 2015, 13:43:09
Does anyone have any suggestions for a good wire for handwiring a keyboard? New at this. But my Hakko is out for delivery today.  ;D

I want to order some in case I lift a pad or something, and I need to wire a trace by hand. I was also thinking about buying a Planck kit too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Mon, 16 February 2015, 13:51:29
Does anyone have any suggestions for a good wire for handwiring a keyboard? New at this. But my Hakko is out for delivery today.  ;D

I want to order some in case I lift a pad or something, and I need to wire a trace by hand. I was also thinking about buying a Planck kit too.

Kinda hard to find this info, since it was posted in comments on a reddit thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2vx98k/photos_planckatomic_inspired_cartesian_longboard/colq1o9

Quote from: fog
Glad you noticed the wire. I have stopped using standard ribbon cables for these hand builds. I had some old rainbow colored bundled IDE cables that I tore apart and was cannibalizing for use building circuits and realized that I preferred it's gauge, so I ordered some of this [30AWG blue hookup wire from mouser http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/R30B-0100/?qs=kjdRZtHFUmlRP7B8cvTVWw%3D%3D. It absolutely wouldn't stand up to any repeated flexing at the point of solder, but it's ideal for me in any sort of static unmoving configuration like this.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 16 February 2015, 14:41:10
Does anyone have any suggestions for a good wire for handwiring a keyboard? New at this. But my Hakko is out for delivery today.  ;D

I want to order some in case I lift a pad or something, and I need to wire a trace by hand. I was also thinking about buying a Planck kit too.

Kinda hard to find this info, since it was posted in comments on a reddit thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2vx98k/photos_planckatomic_inspired_cartesian_longboard/colq1o9

Quote from: fog
Glad you noticed the wire. I have stopped using standard ribbon cables for these hand builds. I had some old rainbow colored bundled IDE cables that I tore apart and was cannibalizing for use building circuits and realized that I preferred it's gauge, so I ordered some of this [30AWG blue hookup wire from mouser http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/R30B-0100/?qs=kjdRZtHFUmlRP7B8cvTVWw%3D%3D. It absolutely wouldn't stand up to any repeated flexing at the point of solder, but it's ideal for me in any sort of static unmoving configuration like this.

Isn't 30AWG pretty small for this?  I would expect something closer to like 26AWG hookup wire to be nicer to work with.

I know a bunch of people have been using magnet wire for hand wiring projects.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Mon, 16 February 2015, 17:25:14
Maybe someone can shed some light on this. What should I be using to clean up the residual flux/gunk left over on the board once it's all together?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 16 February 2015, 19:26:00
Maybe someone can shed some light on this. What should I be using to clean up the residual flux/gunk left over on the board once it's all together?

Isopropyl / rubbing alcohol as high of concentration as you can find, I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than 90% and won't use anything less than 70%.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 16 February 2015, 20:10:18
Maybe someone can shed some light on this. What should I be using to clean up the residual flux/gunk left over on the board once it's all together?

Isopropyl / rubbing alcohol as high of concentration as you can find, I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than 90% and won't use anything less than 70%.
This and a toothbrush.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 16 February 2015, 20:23:53
Maybe someone can shed some light on this. What should I be using to clean up the residual flux/gunk left over on the board once it's all together?

Isopropyl / rubbing alcohol as high of concentration as you can find, I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than 90% and won't use anything less than 70%.
This and a toothbrush.

I don't recommend you brush your teeth with high-percentage isopropyl alcohol sir.  Just sayin.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Mon, 16 February 2015, 20:25:39
Maybe someone can shed some light on this. What should I be using to clean up the residual flux/gunk left over on the board once it's all together?

Isopropyl / rubbing alcohol as high of concentration as you can find, I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than 90% and won't use anything less than 70%.
This and a toothbrush.

I don't recommend you brush your teeth with high-percentage isopropyl alcohol sir.  Just sayin.
Ya. Not sure I would either. Probably would be awful. Haha.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Mon, 16 February 2015, 20:54:26
Maybe someone can shed some light on this. What should I be using to clean up the residual flux/gunk left over on the board once it's all together?

Isopropyl / rubbing alcohol as high of concentration as you can find, I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than 90% and won't use anything less than 70%.
This and a toothbrush.

I don't recommend you brush your teeth with high-percentage isopropyl alcohol sir.  Just sayin.

thank you, i dont know what i would have done without you. +1
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Tue, 17 February 2015, 06:14:25
Does anyone have any suggestions for a good wire for handwiring a keyboard? New at this. But my Hakko is out for delivery today.  ;D

I want to order some in case I lift a pad or something, and I need to wire a trace by hand. I was also thinking about buying a Planck kit too.

Kinda hard to find this info, since it was posted in comments on a reddit thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2vx98k/photos_planckatomic_inspired_cartesian_longboard/colq1o9

Quote from: fog
Glad you noticed the wire. I have stopped using standard ribbon cables for these hand builds. I had some old rainbow colored bundled IDE cables that I tore apart and was cannibalizing for use building circuits and realized that I preferred it's gauge, so I ordered some of this [30AWG blue hookup wire from mouser http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/R30B-0100/?qs=kjdRZtHFUmlRP7B8cvTVWw%3D%3D. It absolutely wouldn't stand up to any repeated flexing at the point of solder, but it's ideal for me in any sort of static unmoving configuration like this.


Does anyone have any suggestions for a good wire for handwiring a keyboard? New at this. But my Hakko is out for delivery today.  ;D

I want to order some in case I lift a pad or something, and I need to wire a trace by hand. I was also thinking about buying a Planck kit too.

Kinda hard to find this info, since it was posted in comments on a reddit thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2vx98k/photos_planckatomic_inspired_cartesian_longboard/colq1o9

Quote from: fog
Glad you noticed the wire. I have stopped using standard ribbon cables for these hand builds. I had some old rainbow colored bundled IDE cables that I tore apart and was cannibalizing for use building circuits and realized that I preferred it's gauge, so I ordered some of this [30AWG blue hookup wire from mouser http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/OK-Industries/R30B-0100/?qs=kjdRZtHFUmlRP7B8cvTVWw%3D%3D. It absolutely wouldn't stand up to any repeated flexing at the point of solder, but it's ideal for me in any sort of static unmoving configuration like this.

Isn't 30AWG pretty small for this?  I would expect something closer to like 26AWG hookup wire to be nicer to work with.

I know a bunch of people have been using magnet wire for hand wiring projects.

Thanks for the link and advice guys, I will look into 30 and 26 AWG hookup wire.

Really stoked to build my first complete board. I just did a little work on my Phantom, I think I did really well for my first ever solder job. No scorch marks on the PCB, and I don't think I ended up with a cold solder joint. I think I used just enough solder too.

The Hakko FX888D is really easy to work with. It heats up crazy fast! Really high quality all around, pretty pleased with it.

Could someone confirm for me that these are the right diodes for building most boards? I need to replace one on my Phantom.

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/1N4148/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMudZehw8RjeZWbu6z6oTQTL (http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/1N4148/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMudZehw8RjeZWbu6z6oTQTL)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 20 February 2015, 05:58:13
I will dig out the thermocouples I have at an appropriate time.. Meanwhile, yesterday I got some inspiration to finally do some planned upgrades to my toaster =) Added some more insulation, some extra mass and rigidity, removed some wires I didn't use, and the very slow thermocouple I had put in it. I also built the solid state relay with its potentiometer into a unit with a wall socket. My multimeter probes fits snugly into that black cable. Now I'll have a power index through the output voltage =D Up until a particular day in my life I was unaware of what the voltage across the potentiometer was, then I found out it is enough to tickle. Today I measured, and it is the full 224-two-holes-in-the-wall output. No more holding the potentiometer by the wires while turning it, yay for safety!

(Attachment Link)

So I finally got a read-your-thermocouple-thing-a-mingy and hooked it up to be able to do some logging. I followed my regular recipe for toasting my controllers. The results are here.
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/toaster-smd-re-flow-oven-t6861.html#p210768
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jorgenslee on Sat, 21 February 2015, 10:51:52
Will the solder expire? I purchase a solder from geekhackers.org last year but due to GB delays I might not be able to assemble on time. Will I still be able to use the solder after a year I have purchase it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Sat, 21 February 2015, 22:49:34
Will the solder expire? I purchase a solder from geekhackers.org last year but due to GB delays I might not be able to assemble on time. Will I still be able to use the solder after a year I have purchase it?

Yes, the solder will be fine.  The flux has a shelf life, but the solder will be ok.  Somebody else might be able to provide a bit more insight than me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: PunksDead on Sun, 22 February 2015, 10:56:28
Baking solder i got baking solder!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sun, 22 February 2015, 11:29:16
Will the solder expire? I purchase a solder from geekhackers.org last year but due to GB delays I might not be able to assemble on time. Will I still be able to use the solder after a year I have purchase it?

Yes, the solder will be fine.  The flux has a shelf life, but the solder will be ok.  Somebody else might be able to provide a bit more insight than me.

I have used solder that was a bit older before I got some kester 44 from mkawa and it was fine.  I used a little bit of flux with it because the rosin did not flow quite as well as I would like, but it still worked.  It is definitely easier with fresh new solder, but the older solder worked fine.  If you have a little extra flux to help out if you dont like the flow, that is good too.  :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Sun, 22 February 2015, 17:52:40
maybe someone can point me in the right direction, im looking for some smd componants for my board. one is marked 4700, i think its a resistor at 470ohm. the other i cant get any info on anywhere. its marked t4, and sideways an 18. i think thats the diode.
EDIT: also, fuction row doens't work, and its only showing up as atmel device and has to be "started" everytime.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Mon, 23 February 2015, 21:53:51
I finally assembled my reflow oven controller, it is very simple, just with button and buzzer, no LCD. I monitor temperature in serial console during reflow. Looks like it works :D

https://github.com/tmk/HeadlessReflowOven

(http://i.imgur.com/YKi7FfLh.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Mon, 23 February 2015, 22:44:39
I finally assembled my reflow oven controller, it is very simple, just with button and buzzer, no LCD. I monitor temperature in serial console during reflow. Looks like it works :D

https://github.com/tmk/HeadlessReflowOven

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/YKi7FfLh.jpg)



Arrgh, you are beating me to it.. I've been busy building a larger oven as well. Mine comes with a surprise though. When it's finished that is. I'm waiting for a relay and some wiring to arrive from ebay before I can finish it. This Chinese holiday thing is killing me =)

Looking good by the way.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Mon, 23 February 2015, 23:37:01
Haha, I'm looking forward to that surprise!
And yeah, Chinese new year really depress our hobby, my PCB production also will be slowed down by a month.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Tue, 24 February 2015, 08:29:07
Ok, this is a preview for now. I'm mostly done, looking forward to mess around with the controlling of the beast once it is finished =)

http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/the-oven-t10016.html

(Want to say that thing you said again, mkawa?)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 25 February 2015, 14:14:55
Nice work hasu!

Looking forward to The Oven bpiphany.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: alexofthewest on Thu, 26 February 2015, 19:11:51
I am looking to start modding various electronic devices I have including my poker 2. In the short term I want to swap out my browns with ergo clears and would like some advice on what soddering iron I should look at, but I also want to use it on an RC car I am working on, so perhaps different tips needs to be an option?

What soldering iron should I get (I STRONGLY prefer amazon prime if that's an option)
edit: After reading a lot of this thread a lot of people reccomend the hakko fx888d and some mentioned this: "http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481-K.html"   how does the soldering iron in this kit compare to the Hakko?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Fri, 27 February 2015, 09:00:28
I consider buying this soldering iron in order to try soldering for the first time. I don't want to invest too much money in it as I don't know if I'll like it or not.
http://www.amazon.fr/STATION-SOUDAGE-150-450%C2%B0C-Appareils-%C3%A9lectroniques/dp/B0043QOAV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1425047744&sr=8-9&keywords=fer+%C3%A0+souder (http://www.amazon.fr/STATION-SOUDAGE-150-450%C2%B0C-Appareils-%C3%A9lectroniques/dp/B0043QOAV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1425047744&sr=8-9&keywords=fer+%C3%A0+souder)


What do you guys think of this model? I'm sorry the link is in french. I didn't find any options to switch the language of the page. I guess you could use Google page translation.


I looked into the cheap package shown in the OP but I'm not sure they ship worldwide plus it might cost me a bit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Fri, 27 February 2015, 09:40:52
I consider buying this soldering iron in order to try soldering for the first time. I don't want to invest too much money in it as I don't know if I'll like it or not.
http://www.amazon.fr/STATION-SOUDAGE-150-450%C2%B0C-Appareils-%C3%A9lectroniques/dp/B0043QOAV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1425047744&sr=8-9&keywords=fer+%C3%A0+souder (http://www.amazon.fr/STATION-SOUDAGE-150-450%C2%B0C-Appareils-%C3%A9lectroniques/dp/B0043QOAV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1425047744&sr=8-9&keywords=fer+%C3%A0+souder)


What do you guys think of this model? I'm sorry the link is in french. I didn't find any options to switch the language of the page. I guess you could use Google page translation.


I looked into the cheap package shown in the OP but I'm not sure they ship worldwide plus it might cost me a bit.
It's the one I got , I'll show you tuesday :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Fri, 27 February 2015, 10:45:01
I consider buying this soldering iron in order to try soldering for the first time. I don't want to invest too much money in it as I don't know if I'll like it or not.
http://www.amazon.fr/STATION-SOUDAGE-150-450%C2%B0C-Appareils-%C3%A9lectroniques/dp/B0043QOAV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1425047744&sr=8-9&keywords=fer+%C3%A0+souder (http://www.amazon.fr/STATION-SOUDAGE-150-450%C2%B0C-Appareils-%C3%A9lectroniques/dp/B0043QOAV2/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1425047744&sr=8-9&keywords=fer+%C3%A0+souder)


What do you guys think of this model? I'm sorry the link is in french. I didn't find any options to switch the language of the page. I guess you could use Google page translation.


I looked into the cheap package shown in the OP but I'm not sure they ship worldwide plus it might cost me a bit.
It's the one I got , I'll show you tuesday :p


Oh cool. Do you like it so far? No problem to signal?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Fri, 27 February 2015, 19:07:18
burnt out some smaller stuff while removing leds. could anyone help me find parts highlighted in the attached image? i think i have found the correct diodes marked in blue, but i'm trying to find the smaller brown/tan colored whatevers marked in the other colors. they look like the same thing but one stands taller than the other. please and thank you =P
[attach=1]
My understanding is i dont need the 470ohm resistors if im not doing leds and i'd only need them on the specific keys if i did want a capslock
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Fri, 27 February 2015, 19:17:24
I think that chip is ATMega32U4 and cap highlighted with yellow line is connected to pin 6 and green one to pin 44. If this is correct yellow cap should be 1uF(datasheet says 10% torlerant is needed) and green one is decoule cap which is OK with general 0.1uF.

It is a bit difficutl to see size of them but both looks to me like 1608(metric)/0603(imperial).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: alexofthewest on Sat, 28 February 2015, 11:04:45
can anyone explain to me if either of these are genuine or what the reason for the price difference is?

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1425142811&sr=8-10&keywords=soldering+iron

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425142811&sr=8-1&keywords=soldering+iron
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Sat, 28 February 2015, 12:24:44
can anyone explain to me if either of these are genuine or what the reason for the price difference is?

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Digital-FX888D-CHP170-bundle/dp/B00AWUFVY8/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1425142811&sr=8-10&keywords=soldering+iron

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888D-23BY-Digital-Soldering-FX-888D/dp/B00ANZRT4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425142811&sr=8-1&keywords=soldering+iron
Ummm. They are both $95, but one you get free cutters. Maybe I did not understand the question?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 28 February 2015, 12:40:49
Lol sold by same company!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ctm on Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:10:16
A noob question: is it necessary to clean up flux after soldering? I changed a few switches in my keyboard and there is some flux left on the PCB (I use a solder that has flux in the middle). Its appearance matches rosin flux I find on Google image. Will the remaining flux on PCB affects the functionality of the keyboard in long term?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:12:20
A noob question: is it necessary to clean up flux after soldering? I changed a few switches in my keyboard and there is some flux left on the PCB (I use a solder that has flux in the middle). Its appearance matches rosin flux I find on Google image. Will the remaining flux on PCB affects the functionality of the keyboard in long term?
yes and no. some solder is "no clean" and will be fine. but its always safe to just take an old toothbrush and clean it with rubbing alcohol.(will make everything slightly sticky)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:14:48
A noob question: is it necessary to clean up flux after soldering? I changed a few switches in my keyboard and there is some flux left on the PCB (I use a solder that has flux in the middle). Its appearance matches rosin flux I find on Google image. Will the remaining flux on PCB affects the functionality of the keyboard in long term?

Unless the flux is acid or corrosive flux, you don't need to clean the residue.
The Kester 44 solder that is selling on GH has non-corrosive and non-conductive flux, so you don't really need to clean it after soldered.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ctm on Sun, 01 March 2015, 21:29:45
A noob question: is it necessary to clean up flux after soldering? I changed a few switches in my keyboard and there is some flux left on the PCB (I use a solder that has flux in the middle). Its appearance matches rosin flux I find on Google image. Will the remaining flux on PCB affects the functionality of the keyboard in long term?

Unless the flux is acid or corrosive flux, you don't need to clean the residue.
The Kester 44 solder that is selling on GH has non-corrosive and non-conductive flux, so you don't really need to clean it after soldered.
Thank you! Kester 44 looks like what I found in the lab and used in soldering my keyboard, as I remember. So I think I will just leave the flux there. Though it's not pretty, it's inside the case and I rarely see it. I am too lazy to find a solvent to clean it up ;D (I also doubt if there is any solvent in the lab).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phishy on Mon, 02 March 2015, 20:02:25
Silly question but i just tried soldering for the first time (good thing i bought extra switches and diodes....but the solder joint for each switch needs to be AFTER the diode, correct?  I effed up and soldering the lead from one diode to right before the diode for the next switch in the row.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HoffmanMyster on Wed, 04 March 2015, 13:30:15
Silly question but i just tried soldering for the first time (good thing i bought extra switches and diodes....but the solder joint for each switch needs to be AFTER the diode, correct?  I effed up and soldering the lead from one diode to right before the diode for the next switch in the row.

A picture would help a lot.  Are you soldering a hand-wired matrix?  PCB?  I think I understand what you're asking but don't want to make assumptions, so pictures help a lot.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phishy on Mon, 09 March 2015, 06:41:52
Silly question but i just tried soldering for the first time (good thing i bought extra switches and diodes....but the solder joint for each switch needs to be AFTER the diode, correct?  I effed up and soldering the lead from one diode to right before the diode for the next switch in the row.

A picture would help a lot.  Are you soldering a hand-wired matrix?  PCB?  I think I understand what you're asking but don't want to make assumptions, so pictures help a lot.

I got it all figured out.  I was soldering a matrix.

Now im waiting for some soderon magnet wire because I don't see how people have enough patience to strip down regular wire to tie in all the columns of a matrix.  Sitting there with wire strippers and a razor blade takes 4everrrrr.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 10 March 2015, 17:01:40
One of the switch wasn't working (pressing it or doing a contact onto the solder points, so I desoldered it and I still can't see what's wrong:

(http://i.imgur.com/okIpaUe.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Vhisvjh.jpg)

Note: the 2 points were working before I tested the pcb when received, not working anymore sadly.
Can you guys help me?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 10 March 2015, 17:38:45
One of the switch wasn't working (pressing it or doing a contact onto the solder points, so I desoldered it and I still can't see what's wrong:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/okIpaUe.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Vhisvjh.jpg)


Note: the 2 points were working before I tested the pcb when received, not working anymore sadly.
Can you guys help me?

I don't see anything wrong.  One thing I want to make sure you understand is that you MUST put LEDs in those sip sockets BEFORE you solder or you will spend hours trying to get LEDs in there after.  Pro tip...  :P

Edit: So if you manually connect those two it will not register the key press?  If that is the case it seems that the pad has somehow disconnected from the trace.  You will have to connect the pad to the destination of the trace then. 

Edit2: Your missing a diode.  That is probably the problem...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Tue, 10 March 2015, 19:03:11
One of the switch wasn't working (pressing it or doing a contact onto the solder points, so I desoldered it and I still can't see what's wrong:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/okIpaUe.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Vhisvjh.jpg)


Note: the 2 points were working before I tested the pcb when received, not working anymore sadly.
Can you guys help me?

I don't see anything wrong.  One thing I want to make sure you understand is that you MUST put LEDs in those sip sockets BEFORE you solder or you will spend hours trying to get LEDs in there after.  Pro tip...  :P

Edit: So if you manually connect those two it will not register the key press?  If that is the case it seems that the pad has somehow disconnected from the trace.  You will have to connect the pad to the destination of the trace then. 

Edit2: Your missing a diode.  That is probably the problem...

Damn I must have broke the diode when soldering somehow, very good catch swill.

I looked on the board for one I could re-use , could I use this one (considering I'll never put a switch on that position) :
(http://i.imgur.com/300PCPF.jpg)
sorry ultra potato

Is there something special to know when working on this kind of diodes?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Tue, 10 March 2015, 19:22:16
One of the switch wasn't working (pressing it or doing a contact onto the solder points, so I desoldered it and I still can't see what's wrong:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/okIpaUe.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Vhisvjh.jpg)


Note: the 2 points were working before I tested the pcb when received, not working anymore sadly.
Can you guys help me?

I don't see anything wrong.  One thing I want to make sure you understand is that you MUST put LEDs in those sip sockets BEFORE you solder or you will spend hours trying to get LEDs in there after.  Pro tip...  :P

Edit: So if you manually connect those two it will not register the key press?  If that is the case it seems that the pad has somehow disconnected from the trace.  You will have to connect the pad to the destination of the trace then. 

Edit2: Your missing a diode.  That is probably the problem...

Damn I must have broke the diode when soldering somehow, very good catch swill.

I looked on the board for one I could re-use , could I use this one (considering I'll never put a switch on that position) :
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/300PCPF.jpg)

sorry ultra potato

Is there something special to know when working on this kind of diodes?

Ew.  Desoldering SMD=misery in my experience.  Maybe others have some tips for you.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Tue, 10 March 2015, 20:31:05
One of the switch wasn't working (pressing it or doing a contact onto the solder points, so I desoldered it and I still can't see what's wrong:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/okIpaUe.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Vhisvjh.jpg)


Note: the 2 points were working before I tested the pcb when received, not working anymore sadly.
Can you guys help me?

I don't see anything wrong.  One thing I want to make sure you understand is that you MUST put LEDs in those sip sockets BEFORE you solder or you will spend hours trying to get LEDs in there after.  Pro tip... 

Edit: So if you manually connect those two it will not register the key press?  If that is the case it seems that the pad has somehow disconnected from the trace.  You will have to connect the pad to the destination of the trace then. 

Edit2: Your missing a diode.  That is probably the problem...

Damn I must have broke the diode when soldering somehow, very good catch swill.

I looked on the board for one I could re-use , could I use this one (considering I'll never put a switch on that position) :
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/300PCPF.jpg)

sorry ultra potato

Is there something special to know when working on this kind of diodes?
I'm on my phone, so its hard to tell anything.  You have to pay attention to polarity when working diodes (not sure if you soldered them originally).  There is a right and wrong direction. They basically work like a one way valve.

I don't know that matrix, so I don't know if you will break the matrix if you remove it. I suspect you may break a row or a column if you remove it. Someone with more experience may be able to help you better.

If you do decide to remove it, you will have to be pretty careful because its easy suck them up and lose them with the solder sucker. I would recommend placing the edge of the sucker on the diode when you suck so it does not try to pull it off. Also, only suck one side, but get it as clean as possible. Then try to heat the other side and slide it off the pad with tweezers. I think that's the most controlled way to get them off with limited tools. You have to basically detach the first side to make this work though.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 11 March 2015, 01:32:15
Damn how do I know which type of diode I need? What pictures could I take so you guys can help me out?

Almost certainly stupid question, but I have those : http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/electric-parts/15-resistorssmd-100-pcs.html
133Ω , I can't use them as diodes right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Wed, 11 March 2015, 02:14:54
Damn how do I know which type of diode I need? What pictures could I take so you guys can help me out?

Almost certainly stupid question, but I have those : http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/electric-parts/15-resistorssmd-100-pcs.html
133Ω , I can't use them as diodes right?

I recently ordered some diodes in 2 case sizes and when I get home I'll find out which one correct and reply with a Mouser link. They are sad, not through hole like gon's.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Wed, 11 March 2015, 02:42:02
You can sepecuate it from size of PCB pads but you better supply information about what your PCB exactly is. Hopefully sechematic and PCB design files are prefered.

Apparently you can't those, because those are resistors, not diodes. You will see ghost keys if you use those resistors.

Damn how do I know which type of diode I need? What pictures could I take so you guys can help me out?

Almost certainly stupid question, but I have those : http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/electric-parts/15-resistorssmd-100-pcs.html
133Ω , I can't use them as diodes right?

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 11 March 2015, 02:59:34
I contacted someone that might have info onto the electronics of this PCB (redScarfIII 96).
Thanks for all your answers !
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Wed, 11 March 2015, 04:07:08
Quote
The diode what RSIII uses is 1n4148 in 0805 package

This : http://www.amazon.fr/1N4148-IN4148-SOD-323-Switching-Diode/dp/B00CN530MA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1426064622&sr=1-1&keywords=1n4148+0805#productDetails
should work right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 11 March 2015, 07:50:07
Quote
The diode what RSIII uses is 1n4148 in 0805 package

This : http://www.amazon.fr/1N4148-IN4148-SOD-323-Switching-Diode/dp/B00CN530MA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1426064622&sr=1-1&keywords=1n4148+0805#productDetails
should work right?

That should work fine...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 15 March 2015, 19:41:35
What temp should I use on my Hakko for harvesting switches off a Cherry PCB?  Using a cheap soldapudt. Sorry Mkawa, didn't have enough left for one of your nice Edsyn's :-(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Tue, 17 March 2015, 10:35:53

What temp should I use on my Hakko for harvesting switches off a Cherry PCB?  Using a cheap soldapudt. Sorry Mkawa, didn't have enough left for one of your nice Edsyn's :-(

Please help!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 17 March 2015, 10:51:45

What temp should I use on my Hakko for harvesting switches off a Cherry PCB?  Using a cheap soldapudt. Sorry Mkawa, didn't have enough left for one of your nice Edsyn's :-(

Please help!

If the switch was soldered with lead-solder, you can set around 320-330 °C (608-626 Fahrenheit) If the switch was soldered with lead-free-solder, you can set around 350 °C (662 Fahrenheit) However, you should not keep the soldering-iron on the switch legs longer than 3 seconds.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Tue, 17 March 2015, 12:22:23

What temp should I use on my Hakko for harvesting switches off a Cherry PCB?  Using a cheap soldapudt. Sorry Mkawa, didn't have enough left for one of your nice Edsyn's :-(

Please help!

If the switch was soldered with lead-solder, you can set around 320-330 �C (608-626 Fahrenheit) If the switch was soldered with lead-free-solder, you can set around 350 �C (662 Fahrenheit) However, you should not keep the soldering-iron on the switch legs longer than 3 seconds.

Wow, awesome info.  Thank you so much good sir!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: platypus on Tue, 17 March 2015, 19:00:01
Hullo. I'm about to do a couple soldering projects for keyboard stuff (all throughhole components) but I've not soldered in over a year, and was never great at it to begin with. Any recommendations for cheap projects/kits I could put together as practice? Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 March 2015, 19:10:51
desolder at the same temperature you would solder at, and add flux to strip the oxidization from the existing joint. soldering (processing) temperature again is:

for leaded solders: 350-375C

for unleaded solders: 450C

the processing temperature of a solder is actually more dependent on the flux in the solder and a bit less on the alloy (although the two are highly dependent on each other). those are general rules of thumb for popular solder and flux combinations. if you're having trouble bringing joints to liquidus (aka melting the solder onto the joint), turn up the temperature about 25C and add more flux.

one note: if you ever see carbon when you solder, you are burning the flux instead of evaporating it. turn your iron down about 25C at a time until it looks like you're boiling the flux off.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Tue, 17 March 2015, 20:35:30
Thank you that is soooo helpful. Didn't know if the solder Cherry used is higher temp or if I run the risk of damaging something if I use too high.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 17 March 2015, 20:49:06
every modern product made on an assembly line is lead-free no-clean. peg the iron at 450c and add RA-type flux or something else equally effective (no-clean also means no-efficacy.. :/) to scrub the oxidization. if you don't have separate flux, add a bit of solder to the joint between desoldering attempts. the flux in the core of your fresh solder will help clean the joint, and the solder you add will distribute that flux into the old joint as it becomes molten.

on a scale of not-all-that-delicate to OMG DON'T BREATHE ON IT, cherry switches are much closer to indestructible than otherwise. the thing to remember about melting solder in general is that if you're not melting solder pretty much immediately, then it's not a problem of the heater on your iron not being hot enough, but thermal resistance between the heater and the soft metal in a solder joint. metal joints form an oxide skin and gather other impurities that cause them to become less thermally efficient and have other bizarre properties that you don't want when you're soldering and desoldering. this also goes for the solder on the tip of your iron.

there are two ways to clean up this suboptimal skin of oxide and impurities on metal. the first is mechanical abrasion. one of the most useful tools you can have in your soldering kit is a brass brush. these are fantastic for scrubbing old component legs and for when you accidentally burn plast^H^H^H skin^H^H^H your face with your iron tip. i tend to put a bit of solvent (eg, iso alcohol) on the brush then scrub. for your iron tip you can and should scrub the tip while hot. between vigorous scrubs, you should attempt to tin with fresh solder. a low quality tip will be extremely difficult to tin, so don't hurt yourself trying to scrub carbon and oxide off of your tip if you're using eg a cheaper asian knockoff iron.

the second method is flux. flux is a corrosive solvent that activates with the application of energy; that is, when exposed to oxide and power as heat, an endothermic reaction occurs that takes takes the oxide and flux components and produces a gas. (fun fact: that gas is what you smell when you solder, and is really the only potentially toxic thing involved in soldering; flux fumes are potent VOCs.) hence, flux flux and more flux. then heat. then more flux.

between two tinned surfaces, without any oxide, heat transfers pretty readily, and all parts that have a clear path to the heater will pretty much sit at the same temperature, which means that your parts and solder should heat more or less instantly to your heater temperature. _if this doesn't happen_, don't freak out and don't attempt to hold the tip to the parts for longer. instead, back up to the above and determine where the thermal resistance is, clear that resistance and then try again.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jamster on Wed, 18 March 2015, 08:57:28
That was the best post I've ever read about why to use flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Wed, 18 March 2015, 09:10:55

every modern product made on an assembly line is lead-free no-clean. peg the iron at 450c and add RA-type flux or something else equally effective (no-clean also means no-efficacy.. :/) to scrub the oxidization. if you don't have separate flux, add a bit of solder to the joint between desoldering attempts. the flux in the core of your fresh solder will help clean the joint, and the solder you add will distribute that flux into the old joint as it becomes molten.

on a scale of not-all-that-delicate to OMG DON'T BREATHE ON IT, cherry switches are much closer to indestructible than otherwise. the thing to remember about melting solder in general is that if you're not melting solder pretty much immediately, then it's not a problem of the heater on your iron not being hot enough, but thermal resistance between the heater and the soft metal in a solder joint. metal joints form an oxide skin and gather other impurities that cause them to become less thermally efficient and have other bizarre properties that you don't want when you're soldering and desoldering. this also goes for the solder on the tip of your iron.

there are two ways to clean up this suboptimal skin of oxide and impurities on metal. the first is mechanical abrasion. one of the most useful tools you can have in your soldering kit is a brass brush. these are fantastic for scrubbing old component legs and for when you accidentally burn plast^H^H^H skin^H^H^H your face with your iron tip. i tend to put a bit of solvent (eg, iso alcohol) on the brush then scrub. for your iron tip you can and should scrub the tip while hot. between vigorous scrubs, you should attempt to tin with fresh solder. a low quality tip will be extremely difficult to tin, so don't hurt yourself trying to scrub carbon and oxide off of your tip if you're using eg a cheaper asian knockoff iron.

the second method is flux. flux is a corrosive solvent that activates with the application of energy; that is, when exposed to oxide and power as heat, an endothermic reaction occurs that takes takes the oxide and flux components and produces a gas. (fun fact: that gas is what you smell when you solder, and is really the only potentially toxic thing involved in soldering; flux fumes are potent VOCs.) hence, flux flux and more flux. then heat. then more flux.

between two tinned surfaces, without any oxide, heat transfers pretty readily, and all parts that have a clear path to the heater will pretty much sit at the same temperature, which means that your parts and solder should heat more or less instantly to your heater temperature. _if this doesn't happen_, don't freak out and don't attempt to hold the tip to the parts for longer. instead, back up to the above and determine where the thermal resistance is, clear that resistance and then try again.

Amazingly helpful. I've learned so much just in the few minutes it took to read that (actually I read it like 4 times )!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 18 March 2015, 09:26:34
Nice posts mkawa (as always).  That one was very clear.

When desoldering I have taken to always just adding a little solder and then desoldering.  I tried a few different things, but this always worked perfectly, so I basically just do that all the time now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Wed, 18 March 2015, 10:54:35
desolder at the same temperature you would solder at, and add flux to strip the oxidization from the existing joint. soldering (processing) temperature again is:

for leaded solders: 350-375C

for unleaded solders: 450C

Thought I'd point out that lead-free does not actually require a higher temperature than a typical 350c or so, but merely that the iron/station is able to supply power faster to compensate for the slightly higher temperature of the alloy (~220c vs 183c) and the thermal load recovery required as the result. This generally means more wattage. Using high temperature on a low power iron is a hacky way of getting around the power issue, as the tip temperature dropping will still leave it at a decent soldering temperature, but this comes with some hefty downsides. Soldering and desoldering at such a high temperature will mean a much faster tip oxidation (particularly when combined with desoldering), PCB delamination, pad lifting, and higher chance of damaging components in question including thermoplastic melting, header pins sliding out, etc.

This is complicated a bit further by how well the controller of the iron is able to compensate as well as the tip heater technology used - for example, a JBC 2245 iron at 50 watts will run circles around a Hakko 888 at 65 watts even though both are resistance soldering. Metcals are even more interesting as far as how they deliver their power so effectively at a lower wattage, so that's a longer topic.

Regardless of how some higher end stations handle temperature and lead-free though, as long as one has a reasonable quality 70+ watt iron with a clean tip and flux where needed, soldering lead-free at regular temperatures should be fine. Unfortunately I can't make specific suggestions on lower end stations for soldering lead-free, as their tip/station/iron quality is way all over the map. Not very helpful, I know :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 18 March 2015, 17:16:36
It's a bit more complicated than that, and the notion that processing temperatures are higher than alloy phase change only because of thermal recovery efficiency is a common misconception. I'll get into it later, but the basic idea is that the alloy and oxide will become molten at about the same time, and oxide within a joint or non uniform transition into the solidus phase results in joints with higher bulk defect rates and hence lower joint longevity. Lead free alloys are particularly prone to this phenomenon, hence the significantly higher processing temperatures.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Bucake on Thu, 19 March 2015, 07:06:31
i was looking for a first soldering iron, and the edsyn 951sx looked good to me,
but why is the 230 version so much more expensive..? :/
http://www.edsyn.com/product/951SX.html ($163.60)
http://www.edsyn.com/product/951SX-230.html ($266.80)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Thu, 19 March 2015, 07:28:31
I have always felt it was a result of the economies of scale being smaller with the 220-240v versions, and the fact that the structure of the distribution networks tend to permit AU/EU customers being ripped off a bit more (things are the same here in Australia with any 240V soldering tools, I posted in this thread a while back about the Australian Hakko iron costing $200 instead of $100). There could be other factors at play too, I guess. Maybe others can shed additional light?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 19 March 2015, 10:21:01
It's a bit more complicated than that, and the notion that processing temperatures are higher than alloy phase change only because of thermal recovery efficiency is a common misconception. I'll get into it later, but the basic idea is that the alloy and oxide will become molten at about the same time, and oxide within a joint or non uniform transition into the solidus phase results in joints with higher bulk defect rates and hence lower joint longevity. Lead free alloys are particularly prone to this phenomenon, hence the significantly higher processing temperatures.

Well, lead-free reflow parameters for example are typically about 40c higher than leaded reflow profiles at their peak - 260c (at most) compared to 220c, which corresponds well to the alloy melting point difference between the two. This is as per JEDEC J-STD-020D, but obviously proper reflow ovens have a lot of power and are able to maintain a particular temperature extremely well, not to mention that it's a radiant heat instead of point based and that the flux will already be there in the paste, it's fresh, and so on. Still, I'm quite opposed to the idea that using 450c for lead-free is needed, as it is definitely damaging to everything involved. If anything, I'd say that for proper lead free soldering at much lower temps folks should invest into a JBC, Pace, Metcal, etc, especially since it's possible to get a good deal on ebay for them at well below market prices.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jamster on Thu, 19 March 2015, 11:45:48
I have always felt it was a result of the economies of scale being smaller with the 220-240v versions, and the fact that the structure of the distribution networks tend to permit AU/EU customers being ripped off a bit more (things are the same here in Australia with any 240V soldering tools, I posted in this thread a while back about the Australian Hakko iron costing $200 instead of $100). There could be other factors at play too, I guess. Maybe others can shed additional light?

I asked a professor at the Australian Graduate School of Management about jacked up prices in Australia vs markets like the US/EU. His short answer was basically that Australia is a small market where there are a small number of sellers (distributers) that excercise far greater control than in larger markets. So they jack up prices *because they can*.

So "economies of scale" don't really come into it. You nailed it with the distribution reason. It's basically market size and ologopolistic controls. Books ten years ago was a perfect example (I don't know what book prices are now). There was a cartel of 2-3 companies that controlled book distribution in Australia, which is why you had crazy prices like 20-30 for books that cost around 10 in the US.

Edit: Just realised this was a complete digression from the thread. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 19 March 2015, 16:42:33
It's a bit more complicated than that, and the notion that processing temperatures are higher than alloy phase change only because of thermal recovery efficiency is a common misconception. I'll get into it later, but the basic idea is that the alloy and oxide will become molten at about the same time, and oxide within a joint or non uniform transition into the solidus phase results in joints with higher bulk defect rates and hence lower joint longevity. Lead free alloys are particularly prone to this phenomenon, hence the significantly higher processing temperatures.

Well, lead-free reflow parameters for example are typically about 40c higher than leaded reflow profiles at their peak - 260c (at most) compared to 220c, which corresponds well to the alloy melting point difference between the two. This is as per JEDEC J-STD-020D, but obviously proper reflow ovens have a lot of power and are able to maintain a particular temperature extremely well, not to mention that it's a radiant heat instead of point based and that the flux will already be there in the paste, it's fresh, and so on. Still, I'm quite opposed to the idea that using 450c for lead-free is needed, as it is definitely damaging to everything involved. If anything, I'd say that for proper lead free soldering at much lower temps folks should invest into a JBC, Pace, Metcal, etc, especially since it's possible to get a good deal on ebay for them at well below market prices.

making joints using anything other than a hot tip is a completely different animal and is not comparable to soldering with a hot tip iron and drawn wire. food for thought: why is the flux drawn into the axial center of the soldering wire? it would be a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to drawn the alloy into wire and then coat it with flux..

again, making durable electrical joints is not a simple matter of heating up a blob of alloy until it hits liquidus and then letting it cool. heck, look at the many many large package BGA failures we saw at the beginning of the RoHS era. xbox rrod anyone? a lot of engineering goes into designing drawn soldering wire to make hand soldering a reliable process. the same thing is true of reflow ovens or wave assembly lines and their respective alloy and flux packaging.

anyway, imo anything other than the direct physics of these processes are a debate beyond the scope of this thread.

i still assert that in simple DIP soldering with a commodity iron and the most common RA cored leaded wire and mildly or low activation flux cored lead-free alloys, the safe rule of thumb is: 1) use flux and debridement to lower thermal resistance. 2) form a strong mechanical connection between the joint materials (ie, twist wire together and secure workpiece. 4) clean and tin iron tip. 4) place tip against all joint components and soldering wire against joint components such that solder is not directly touching iron.

at this point, one of two things will happen. either the solder will melt and flow (hence the name flux for the oxide cleaning chemical!) into the joint, OR the solder will not melt. if it does not melt nearly instantaneously then you're either attempting to weld a car door closed (too much thermal mass) or you have too much thermal resistance at the joint. assume the latter case and repeat from step 1. eventually, you will get a feel for when the former case is true.

finally, after you have flowed solder into your joint, remove your solder wire and iron from the workpiece and DO NOT LET IT MOVE. the result should be a spherical, shiny joint (note that lead-free solders tend to form an oxide skin more quickly and hence will look a tad duller). if the joint is not spherical and/or shiny, wait for joint to cool a bit and then apply a drop of flux and heat until molten and let cool again.

the reason you want a spherical and shiny joint is that these are indicators for the joint being nominally defect-free internally. an aspherical joint implies that the cooling of the joint was not radially isometric through the centroid. when molten metal cools optimally, the phase change from liquid to solid happens at a uniform rate along the L1 norm from the centroid of the liquid mass.

a fun way to think about what is happening is to recall the form of the earth (which is also cooling!). at the center of the earth, the planet is composed of molten sphere (ok, not a perfect sphere, but close enough for now). we then consider concentric rings around the center to be in increasingly cooler, more solid forms such that each successive ring is cooler and contains more solids, until we reach the skin of the earth, that is dirt and oxygen. this is the pattern of a good joint cooling and eventually reaching a solid bulk.

to extend this metaphor to picture a bad joint, let's imagine that someone shook the earth like a snow globe as it initially cooled. instead of having concentric rings, we might have internal crags form where hot, low solid material flowed through cold, high solid material during the cooling process. in such a situation, the cool, solid material will have a different density than the hot material that runs past this. this point of density variance, taken to its limit, is basically a crack in the cooled bulk.

regardless of whether you flow mechanical or electrical energy through a bulk material, cracks are bad. under mechanical stress, they break. under electrical stress, they force electron holes to take irregular paths through the material, which will increase resistance and, under a large number of cycles, increase resistance enough to effectively break the electrical connection.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 19 March 2015, 16:44:04
also, the horrific pricing of 230v soldering irons around the world is definitely on-topic in this thread. it's shockingly hard to get a soldering iron that takes wall voltage from most of the world. it's quite bizarre and worth talking about, as we have a large number of international members here.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Thu, 19 March 2015, 17:02:52
Good gosh mkawa
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Thu, 19 March 2015, 17:22:14
I wonder if it is worth doing an IC for a GB for a good quality 230V iron with maybe hot air capability?
I'd tentatively volunteer, but might not be in a 230V country in the near future if certain game developers get their act together with regards to staffing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 19 March 2015, 17:27:00
Well... while I still can't claim to be an expert on soldering by any means - I'm just a wannabe and it's not as if I'm IPC certified or something - I can still at least point to some other sources of information on the matter in regards to temperature requirements for hand soldering lead-free:

Here's what Pace (primary supplier of soldering equipment to the US government/NASA/Navy, inventors of desoldering stations, etc) has to say about it (https://www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/Lead%20Free%20Soldering%20-%202008.pdf):

Quote
Because lead-free solders have higher melting temperatures than solders containing lead, there is an immediate tendency to turn up the temperature on the soldering system. Higher operating temperatures do not make the process quicker and introduce  unnecessary risk factors. Leaded solder typically melts at 363F and lead-free solders melt in the neighborhood of 425F, an iron set at 650 or 700F will still melt lead-free solder. The issue isn't temperature; it's the ability of your iron/tip configuration to transfer heat to the work efficiently and the heater's ability to keep up with the heat loss into the work. High performance tips are available from several manufacturers and an evaluation should be undertaken to thoroughly understand how efficiently heat is being transferred from your existing tips to the work.
...
To maximize the life of your soldering tips:
1. Always use the lowest effective temperatures while soldering

Metcal (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3F9Hf1ku1QQaEJwU2tNRUF3RlE/edit), indicating actual temperature used in lead-free hand soldering as 300c:

Quote
If excessive process temperatures, and subsequent thermal damage to assemblies, are to be avoided in the lead-free hand soldering process the following aspects must be considered:
...
3. Thermal performance of the soldering iron. The ability of the soldering iron to input the correct rate of temperature rise to the solder joint is important, both with respect to flux activation and also final solder joint temperature.
4. Tip Temperature. Existing tip temperatures can be used in most applications providing the correct tip shape is implemented as well as good housekeeping techniques. Higher tip temperatures may be needed for very thermally demanding applications.

JBC (http://www.jbctools.com/soldering-temperatures-menu-15.html) specifically goes into some of the points that I'm trying to make:

Quote
Which is the suggested soldering temperature in lead free processes?
Our experience shows that 90% of solder joints using JBC tools can be performed successfully at 350C or less, in any case it is not recommended to exceed 370C.

Why is it possible to solder at lower using a JBC tool?
It is possible because the tip has an extremely fast thermal response.
On a conventional iron’s tip there is a strong drop in temperature while the tip is transferring the heat to the board. If the thermal response is slow, the tip does not have the time to recover the temperature, especially if a series of solder joint is performed. This is the reason why the operator is used to select a higher temperature, resulting in short tip life and PCB / component damage.

Hakko (http://www.hakko.com/english/lead_free/pages/topic_2.html):

Quote
Simply raising the temperature of a soldering iron because of the high melting point may result in faster oxidation and erosion. The problems with lead-free solder can be solved by using products which offer special characteristics described below.
1. Soldering iron
Accurate temperature control and excellent thermal recovery rate enable the use of lead-free solder without the need for setting a higher temperature.

All the linked documents, even outside of the specific quotes, make for interesting light reading for anyone doing soldering.

One can argue that the reason why they all have a consensus is because they have well behaved stations in regards to thermal load demands, and they want to show it off.. but I'd rather not use irons that are not capable of this on lead-free. The rate at which one will tear through cheapo tips at 450c and the chances of ruining the boards and components makes the added expense of a proper station and tips suddenly much more attractive.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 19 March 2015, 18:07:08
yah, that's all marketing-speak. it's unsurprising that iron manufacturers will go on and on about their precision and thermal response. the two things they really care about are tip costs vs average usage rates and heater lifetime. those are the things that actually make them money.

to tldr the above, you must activate all of the flux in a solder to make a clean joint, and nearly all parts have wide and long thermal envelopes, since parts manufacturers lose money if their parts consistently die when soldered. finally, the absolute accuracy of your iron temperature is going to drift significantly over time, so trying to nail the exact melt temp of the soldering alloy is kind of an exercise in futility even if it were a good idea to hand solder at that temperature. set your temperature high enough to process your flux and make shiny joints and divert any excess brain to focus on making more and cooler stuff.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 19 March 2015, 20:24:55
Okay. So if we assume that it's marketing speak, or even if it doesn't matter, there are still two possible scenarios:

1. What they claim is true.
2. What they claim is false.

Although I believe the former, let's suppose for a second that the latter is true. That means that every single large industrial customer of said companies, that might have thousands of their stations and following their guidelines, is going to be soldering at an incorrect temperature, leading to many failures and so on. Eventually, the problem will be traced back to the manufacturer of the soldering stations, leading to widespread lawsuits/recalls/etc. Odd that we haven't heard of those, however.

But let's set that aside for a moment and look at some non-affiliated examples, out of interest:

IPC (http://www.ipctraining.org/dvd/45c/script.pdf), who develops the vast majority of the standards used in the industry, as well as certifications has the following to say on the matter in one of their training courses:
Quote
As stated previously, the melting temperatures are up to 40 degrees C higher. For example, a soldering iron temperature for a lead-free process may be 400 degrees C versus 360 degrees C for tin-lead.
...
Now, let’s take a look at the soldering operation. For this example we’ll use a tin-silver-copper alloy that has a melting temperature of 217 degrees C. We’ll be using a temperature- controlled
soldering iron with a chisel tip. The temperature will be set at 410 degrees C

Higher than the soldering equipment manufacturers ask for, but we don't know which irons are used for this particular training (AFAIK, they used older model Pace stations that weren't as good, however). Still, not 450C.

Kester (http://www.kester.com/kester-content/uploads/2013/06/Lead-free-Handsoldering.Final_.4.19.06.pdf), on lead-free hand soldering. Error and typo prone, but I figured I'd link it anyway:
Quote
What is the best soldering tip temperature for lead-free SAC and SnCu?
The temperature of the tip or contact temperature is very important to ease the lead-free hand-soldering operation. When using 63/37 solders temperatures as low as 650ºF have been used but with lead-free 700-800ºF is best. The higher temperature does compensate for the slower wetting exhibited with these lead-free alloys. Above 800ºF issues of board and component damage may arise; at lower temperatures cold solder joints and flagging are the normal complaints.
...
ƒInsure the tips are designed for lead-free
Insure the temperature is set to 700-800 ºF

So, about 370C - 425C. Still not 450, and specifically warns against it. No indication of what iron was used.

Eptac (http://www.eptac.com/soldering-iron-tip-temperature/), another IPC and JEDEC certification trainer:
Quote
There are two factors involved in making this selection, one being the mass of the metal being joined and second the size of the soldering iron tip.
As for the alloy being used, the 63/37 is liquidus at 183C and the new RoHS alloys, such as SAC305 and Sn100C have a liquidus temperature around 215C. With the soldering iron set at between 371C [700F] and 398C [750F], one should be able to solder most joints. If the mass of the joints is very small then the temperature of the solder iron could be reduced to 343C [650F].
It is recommended to use the lowest possible temperature which will reflow the total joint, as using higher temperatures will create more damage to the tip of the soldering iron which will increase tooling cost.
These temperatures are satisfactory for all alloys, be it either the standard Sn/Pb or the new Lead-free alloys such as SAC 305 and Sn100C.

No specific soldering iron being referenced.

IPC again (http://www.ipctraining.org/dvd/142c/script.pdf), this time a newer and updated course:
Quote
For leadfree alloys, a good starting point is 350 degrees C, or 662 degrees F. Variations in the alloy, either tin-lead, or lead-free, will require variations to the starting point temperatures.
...
After we’ve prepared the tip of the soldering iron, we should be ready to start the soldering operation. We'll be using a temperature controlled soldering iron with a chisel tip. The temperature of the tip will be set at 315 degrees C, or 600 degrees F for tin-lead solder – and about 350 degrees C, or 662 degrees F for lead free solder.
...
Now, we’ll demonstrate the same soldering technique using lead free solder. The main difference is that lead free has a higher melting temperature than tin-lead – so instead of a starting temperature of 315 degrees C, we’ll set the temperature at 350 degrees C.

The course is listed (http://www.ipctraining.org/html/newproducts.htm) as being demonstrated by a person from Pace, so one assumes that a more up to date Pace station is used.

ACI (http://www.navyb2pcoe.org/pdf/wiki/Lead%20Free%20Manufacturing%20-%20Hand%20Soldering.pdf), a company specializing in IPC training, in particular for the DOD (Navy and Army):
Quote
Lead-free solder alloys generally have higher melting points. Therefore, the solder tip must be set to a higher temperature. For example, when using the lead-free solder alloy, tin silver copper (SAC-305), it was determined that the solder tip had to be set to 343°C / 650°F, as opposed to 315°C / 600°F for tin-lead (SnPb).

Solder iron shown in the picture appears to be a Metcal.

A Linkedin discussion of the topic (https://www.linkedin.com/groups/Temperature-Soldering-Iron-49930.S.138512857), between people involved in the industry, quote is from a certification instructor:
Quote
When I teach J-STD-001 or IPC-7711-7721, I start the students at 600°F for Sn/Pb and 650°F for SAC305 when learning on the standard IPC circuit board. However, our company work instructions are sometimes customized for the factors mentioned above. I find that component and PCB damage usually occurs when the operator compensates for the factors (poor soldering) by turning the temperature up where the control base allow (my favorite bases are from OKi / Metcal that doesn't allow operator manipulation) or by using a tip that is too large (actual temperature can deviate +25-50°F higher than indicated on the base, when measured with pyrometer). In this area, Gerald's advice is vital - quality of the tools matter.

That's ~350C. Metcal is referenced.

So, there seems to be at least some pattern of where a quality iron is used, the temperature reduction for lead-free hand soldering is achieved, lending credence to manufacturer claims. Even when the iron is unknown, nobody used 450C and specifically warned against it. All sources are what I'd personally consider authoritative on the subject matter, having significant impact in the industry.

All I'm trying to do is to prevent people from damaging their tips, equipment and components trying this at 450C with cheap stations. I'm not sure what other proof I need, other than perhaps demonstrating lead-free soldering myself at mentioned lower temperatures. I do have stations from Pace/JBC/Metcal as well as cheaper Hakko heater type stations for comparison at same temps, though I am lacking in lead-free solder - but that's easy to fix.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 19 March 2015, 22:02:28
I know this is a bit off the beaten path here, but I have a soldering question.  I want to cut the tabs off my AT that hold the stock controller on and move them to the middle of the plate so that the entire controller is hidden from view.  It is being used without a case.  Plus with the xwhatsit controller, only one of the tabs gets used and I want to use both for a better connection to ground plane of the back plate.  Would silver based solder from a home improvement store from the plumbing section be sufficient?  Or should I purchase a better quality solder from the web?  What sort of silver content should I be looking for?  This is going to be soldering steel to steel, and am planning on using a propane torch. 

The reason I am wanting to solder is because I feel I will be imposing less warpage to the back plate than if I was to attempt to TIG weld it.  Plus, I don't want to use standard leaded solder as it doesn't have the same mechanical strength that silver based solder does.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Bucake on Fri, 20 March 2015, 05:28:14
can't find the edsyn 915sx-230 anywhere closeby :/
ordering from edsyn.com would give me: 951sx-230 for $266, then $130 shipping cost. import charges would be around $115.
which would total out at more than $500. just nasty..

what are my options? anyone know of a european seller of these?
or otherwise a good alternative to this station..?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:22:24
yes, edsyn does have a european distributor. PM me and i'll get back to you with details.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 March 2015, 07:23:43
I know this is a bit off the beaten path here, but I have a soldering question.  I want to cut the tabs off my AT that hold the stock controller on and move them to the middle of the plate so that the entire controller is hidden from view.  It is being used without a case.  Plus with the xwhatsit controller, only one of the tabs gets used and I want to use both for a better connection to ground plane of the back plate.  Would silver based solder from a home improvement store from the plumbing section be sufficient?  Or should I purchase a better quality solder from the web?  What sort of silver content should I be looking for?  This is going to be soldering steel to steel, and am planning on using a propane torch. 

The reason I am wanting to solder is because I feel I will be imposing less warpage to the back plate than if I was to attempt to TIG weld it.  Plus, I don't want to use standard leaded solder as it doesn't have the same mechanical strength that silver based solder does.
i'd just JB weld it.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:04:40
assembly processes are dependent upon the composition of your assembly, your process tooling and all chemicals involved. in particular, you _must_ activate the flux in your solder. inactive flux inside of solder balls will eventually lead to failure of the joint. for kester 44 RA active rosin flux, the recommended processing temperature is appx 350C

for kester 285, a 5% silver alloy with mildly active water soluble flux, the recommended processing temperature is appx 400C

http://www.kester.com/download/44%20Flux-Cored%20Wire%20Data%20Sheet.pdf

if your components cannot handle exposure to contact heat at that temperature, you will want to use a different solder. because the focus of this thread is to inform new and intermediate assemblers, i recommend 350C as a good temperature for kester 44 RA, and 450C for water-soluble lead-free solders. in contrast, most solder pastes will recommend temperatures about 100C lower as the flux does not need to be nearly as active due to the even distribution of flux within the paste.

regardless, this discussion is best left to an advanced soldering thread. like this one! https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70128
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 20 March 2015, 08:30:19
I know this is a bit off the beaten path here, but I have a soldering question.  I want to cut the tabs off my AT that hold the stock controller on and move them to the middle of the plate so that the entire controller is hidden from view.  It is being used without a case.  Plus with the xwhatsit controller, only one of the tabs gets used and I want to use both for a better connection to ground plane of the back plate.  Would silver based solder from a home improvement store from the plumbing section be sufficient?  Or should I purchase a better quality solder from the web?  What sort of silver content should I be looking for?  This is going to be soldering steel to steel, and am planning on using a propane torch. 

The reason I am wanting to solder is because I feel I will be imposing less warpage to the back plate than if I was to attempt to TIG weld it.  Plus, I don't want to use standard leaded solder as it doesn't have the same mechanical strength that silver based solder does.
i'd just JB weld it.

The problem with JB weld is no electrical connection for the ground plane.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Fri, 20 March 2015, 10:20:36
if your components cannot handle exposure to contact heat at that temperature, you will want to use a different solder. because the focus of this thread is to inform new and intermediate assemblers, i recommend 350C as a good temperature for kester 44 RA, and 450C for water-soluble lead-free solders. in contrast, most solder pastes will recommend temperatures about 100C lower as the flux does not need to be nearly as active due to the even distribution of flux within the paste.

regardless, this discussion is best left to an advanced soldering thread. like this one! https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70128

I'll be happy to take discussion of things like professional grade soldering stations and reflow/rework to the other thread. However, your recommendation for said new and intermediate assemblers is still in this thread to hand solder and desolder lead-free at 450c is, again, not supported by anything that I've read so far, and in fact is only actively discouraged. All of my sources are specifically concerning hand soldering lead-free, and not paste/reflow soldering, and in fact for paste reflow the recommended temperatures are  about 200c lower - but again, that's irrelevant and for the other thread.

I would have liked to find some well supported and documented industry use cases for hand soldering lead-free at 450C as a generic guideline, but I have not been able to locate anything outside of this thread. As such, I'd prefer for the aforementioned new and intermediate assemblers to avoid damaging their equipment and components unnecessarily by using such a high temperature.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 March 2015, 10:42:42
it's still a valid recommendation even if it is because entry level stations don't have the power delivery mechanisms needed to maintain a lower process temp.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Fri, 20 March 2015, 11:31:39
I suppose one should then define what an entry level iron is, which is capable of 450C temperature adjustment. Considering that one can get a Hakko 888 for $70 at frys quite frequently, I would not go any lower than that. The 888, according to the reports I've read, is perfectly capable of processing lead-free at 400C. Even a Weller WES(D)51, which is only 50 watts, was reported by a friend of mine to be used throughout their company as a soldering station for lead-free at 400C.

If anything, I'd outright advise against even trying to do lead-free soldering with cheaper stations that can't meet the thermal or tip quality requirements, like the various Chinese Hakko 936/937 clones for example. And as far as desoldering goes... well, one could use a cheap station for that at 450C only if they are willing to accept the much higher risks of irreversible damage to all the parts involved.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Fri, 20 March 2015, 11:35:09
I use my Weller WES51 to desolder lead free on occasion.  I just turn it up a little over 3/4, since it is just an arbitrary 1-5 setting, add leaded solder to each joint.  Then I turn it down and desolder with a soldapult.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:12:25
I've been a bit skeptic to the very high temperatures suggested by mkawa. Why go much higher than necessary for the solder to melt, I wondered. But just to try I set my station to 450 rather than the 380 I normally use. I may just be imagining but I think my tip actually kept cleaner from crusty flux crap and cleaned up nicer against the sponge. I worried a bit and lowered the temperature to 400, and I think it's still better than 380. I will keep looking for my optimal temperature, probably higher than 380.

I think the most interesting figure should be what the manufacturer of the lead says is the correct temperature. They if anyone should know how they designed their alloy/flux to work..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:17:49
I've been a bit skeptic to the very high temperatures suggested by mkawa. Why go much higher than necessary for the solder to melt, I wondered. But just to try I set my station to 450 rather than the 380 I normally use. I may just be imagining but I think my tip actually kept cleaner from crusty flux crap and cleaned up nicer against the sponge. I worried a bit and lowered the temperature to 400, and I think it's still better than 380. I will keep looking for my optimal temperature, probably higher than 380.

I think the most interesting figure should be what the manufacturer of the lead says is the correct temperature. They if anyone should know how they designed their alloy/flux to work..

My Hakko FM-202 stays on 750F (400C) all the time. I tried 650F and 700F, but 750F melts the solder quickly, more reliably in the case of lead-free, and seems to me to be "cleaner" as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Fri, 20 March 2015, 16:34:47
I've been a bit skeptic to the very high temperatures suggested by mkawa. Why go much higher than necessary for the solder to melt, I wondered. But just to try I set my station to 450 rather than the 380 I normally use. I may just be imagining but I think my tip actually kept cleaner from crusty flux crap and cleaned up nicer against the sponge. I worried a bit and lowered the temperature to 400, and I think it's still better than 380. I will keep looking for my optimal temperature, probably higher than 380.

I think the most interesting figure should be what the manufacturer of the lead says is the correct temperature. They if anyone should know how they designed their alloy/flux to work..

You can check some of my links on the previous page - I provided one of them from Kester. However, it varies drastically depending on the quality of the soldering station and the tips, and it's simple physics at how higher temps cause a decrease in tip life. Kester also specifically mentions how higher temperatures directly lead to joint embrittlement in lead-free due to increased thickness of the intermetallic bond layer.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Fri, 20 March 2015, 17:17:56
I've been hunting around for a while now for a good quality 220-240V hot air station.
I've been given a quote for one of these Goot stations (http://www.goot.jp/en/suitori-rework/xhp-110/) , direct from the manufacturer, about $850 AUD shipped (exact quote was 74800 yen + paypal fees) including the vacuum attachment and a few extra nozzles.
The price is a bit higher than I really wanted to pay, but I don't mind as much if it is well-manufactured (country of origin states Japan, but it's been suggested to me that pehaps the internals are actually all Chinese with just the assembly/testing conducted in Japan, hence my uncertainty as to whether it's worth the money).

I don't really want to get a cheap-nasty/clone unit, I've been spoilt with the hand iron I've used to date (goot PX-601), not to mention it wouldn't be the first time I've seen an Aoyue or similar station have the wiring in an unsafe manner.
There are only a handful of Australian sellers with good-quality equipment, and it all seems to be in the $800+ range without vacuum attachment or extra nozzles (the vast majority of Australian stock seems to be more like $1200+ which is insanely ridiculous for my present needs).

I was pointed towards JBC (european made, hence native 230V), and the Korean/Singaporean second-hand market, as a place to start looking.
Any other suggestions from GHers regarding alternatives? Any native speakers mind taking a look and letting me know if there's much on offer?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 20 March 2015, 19:40:07
I think the most interesting figure should be what the manufacturer of the lead says is the correct temperature. They if anyone should know how they designed their alloy/flux to work..
as with most things in manufacturing, every finished part is a complex series of choices that carefully balance engineering goals against each other. designing and/or specifying a soldering material is as much if not more important than constraining the process of using that material.

in an earlier post i alluded to the choice of where and how to distribute the flux in a soldering material. flux is corrosive, and hence inherently unstable. flux is drawn into the core of soldering wire because the drawn metal around the flux can keep it from reacting before it is needed in the creation of a soldering joint. solder paste, on the other hand, is designed so that flux is near-uniformly distributed within the alloy. the tradeoff is that the flux is exposed in pastes and hence solder paste is not 'shelf-stable' and will become inert if not refrigerated and used quickly. this is also why you can approximate solder paste by mushing up soldering wire in a bit of flux paste with a mortar and pestle.

finally, while we think of temperature as an exact property of matter, this is a reductive notion meant to keep our heads from exploding. i wrote up a few pages on this, but it turned into a thermodynamic mess (as most thermodynamics are..), so i'll just say that we can turn our little temperature controller knobs to demarcated points on their travel until our heads do explode and we won't ever be able to say that we've hit exactly X temperature.

hell, i have a thermocouple amplifier chip (singular) that cost more than my first soldering iron.

in short, turn your knob until your get good results with your solder and joints and be happy, folks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Fri, 20 March 2015, 19:40:25
I've been hunting around for a while now for a good quality 220-240V hot air station.
<snip>

I posted my reply over here (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70128.0), as that's a better place for it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: alexofthewest on Sun, 22 March 2015, 12:35:43
What temperature should I use on my hakko 880d for soldering some switches and desoldering? This will be my first attempt
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sun, 22 March 2015, 22:39:38
What temperature should I use on my hakko 880d for soldering some switches and desoldering? This will be my first attempt

350 Celsius, also for desoldering you may want to buy some flux, it'll speed up the process. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sun, 22 March 2015, 23:35:25

What temperature should I use on my hakko 880d for soldering some switches and desoldering? This will be my first attempt

Crazy, I asked the same question a few pages back and got a lot of valuable info. You may want to go check that out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:59:00
Since my iron doesn't have a temp readout, just an arbitrary 1-5 number scale, I just set it at the lowest setting that it quickly melts the solder needed for the joint.  With lead free, I do tend to turn it up a bit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 24 March 2015, 07:53:53
stations with arbitrarily demarcated knobs (in particular the weller wlc100) are fixed temperature soldering irons that are connected to a varistor that controls the voltage into the iron. that is, the iron heats up until its heater hits equilibrium, usually about 400-450C at appx 50W max at wall voltage (wcl100: 40W max). turning the knob does not change the max temperature of the iron. instead, turning the knob changes the wattage of the iron. the lowest setting is usually about 15-20W, with fairly linear steps up to the maximum. with these stations, just find a setting that works for you and leave it there. increasing the wattage of the iron really is a patch to make up for slow thermal recovery.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 26 March 2015, 08:40:21
One of the switch wasn't working (pressing it or doing a contact onto the solder points, so I desoldered it and I still can't see what's wrong:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/okIpaUe.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Vhisvjh.jpg)


Note: the 2 points were working before I tested the pcb when received, not working anymore sadly.
Can you guys help me?

Quote
The diode what RSIII uses is 1n4148 in 0805 package

This : http://www.amazon.fr/1N4148-IN4148-SOD-323-Switching-Diode/dp/B00CN530MA/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1426064622&sr=1-1&keywords=1n4148+0805#productDetails
should work right?

Received the diodes so follow up questions:
- how do I tel the polarity one those things (amazon link above), they don't seem to have any distinction on them ?
- do you have any trick to solder this thing? I have only one diode to solder but I'm with a 10$ iron. I though of doing a "pool" of solder onto the pad and then putting the diode in it.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jamster on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:43:51
Why do people keep talking about lead free solder? Is there some kind of advantage to it, or is leaded solder hard to get in the US/EU?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 26 March 2015, 09:46:16
Why do people keep talking about lead free solder? Is there some kind of advantage to it, or is leaded solder hard to get in the US/EU?

Because it is used for all manufactured boards due to having to comply with RoHS regulations.  You can still buy leaded solder which is usually easier to work with for the hobbyist.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Thu, 26 March 2015, 16:50:00
Received the diodes so follow up questions:
- how do I tel the polarity one those things (amazon link above), they don't seem to have any distinction on them ?
- do you have any trick to solder this thing? I have only one diode to solder but I'm with a 10$ iron. I though of doing a "pool" of solder onto the pad and then putting the diode in it.

Diodes without polarity is unfortunate - look carefully maybe there's a dot instead of a line or something at least. If not, it's hard to check unless you have a multimeter, so I'd just return them as they'd be some really low quality ones anyway. Also, they're a bit of a wrong size, sod 323 is not exactly size compatible with 0805 - but you should have at least some overlap between the two, assuming you can find polarity.

To solder, make sure you have a thin pointy tip that is bright and shiny without excess solder. Take some thin gauge solder, and melt a tiny bit on the pad, just enough to cover it. If there's already solder on the pad, you can skip that. Take the component, place it in the correct orientation, and slightly solder one leg of it to the pad. Take a bit more solder, and solder the other pad, then add a bit more back to the first pad so that it forms a clean joint. Less solder is more for smd - be careful not to use too much, as these are small components with small leads and pads. Never keep your iron on a pad and component for longer than a few seconds, either.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Thu, 26 March 2015, 18:06:16
Received the diodes so follow up questions:
- how do I tel the polarity one those things (amazon link above), they don't seem to have any distinction on them ?
- do you have any trick to solder this thing? I have only one diode to solder but I'm with a 10$ iron. I though of doing a "pool" of solder onto the pad and then putting the diode in it.

Diodes without polarity is unfortunate - look carefully maybe there's a dot instead of a line or something at least. If not, it's hard to check unless you have a multimeter, so I'd just return them as they'd be some really low quality ones anyway. Also, they're a bit of a wrong size, sod 323 is not exactly size compatible with 0805 - but you should have at least some overlap between the two, assuming you can find polarity.

To solder, make sure you have a thin pointy tip that is bright and shiny without excess solder. Take some thin gauge solder, and melt a tiny bit on the pad, just enough to cover it. If there's already solder on the pad, you can skip that. Take the component, place it in the correct orientation, and slightly solder one leg of it to the pad. Take a bit more solder, and solder the other pad, then add a bit more back to the first pad so that it forms a clean joint. Less solder is more for smd - be careful not to use too much, as these are small components with small leads and pads. Never keep your iron on a pad and component for longer than a few seconds, either.
gotcha thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ideus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 19:49:48
Is it better a soldering torch, or a regular iron for SMD components?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:49:43
Is it better a soldering torch, or a regular iron for SMD components?

No torch for anything with electronics.  Hot air is ok, but no torch, that is only for pluming and jewelry.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ideus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:50:37
Is it better a soldering torch, or a regular iron for SMD components?

No torch for anything with electronics.  Hot air is ok, but no torch, that is only for pluming and jewelry.


Thanks bro. But I am referring to the ones that use a butane flame to get a metal tip to get hot. Similar to a regular electric soldering iron.



Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Melvang on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:56:09
I still wouldn't, I can't imagine being able to accurately control the temp at the tip.  We had one in the AT shop in the navy, never saw it work right.  I would rather have a plug in one that I don't have to worry about keeping full of fuel.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ideus on Thu, 26 March 2015, 20:57:22
I still wouldn't, I can't imagine being able to accurately control the temp at the tip.  We had one in the AT shop in the navy, never saw it work right.  I would rather have a plug in one that I don't have to worry about keeping full of fuel.


Alright, thank you again.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 26 March 2015, 22:55:51
Is it better a soldering torch, or a regular iron for SMD components?

Usually the soldering torch has no temperature control even it has hot air nozzle supported, so it would easily burn the SMD components. The regular iron on other hand may require more effort because the SMD is very small, we may need to microscope for the tiny soldering joins.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: slip84 on Sun, 05 April 2015, 09:29:24
So, I should have probably invested before I left the US, but...

Where in the GTA (Toronto area) can I pick up some good soldering equipment without breaking the bank? Amazon.ca has a mediocre selection from what I can tell. I need to desolder some switches from two boards for starters. Any help I can get would be deeply appreciated!

I'll go pick through this thread and see if anyone has any insight for starters.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Baxter on Mon, 06 April 2015, 11:51:42
A few pictures of how I stripped the wires for my columns on a grid-layout board, I used single core wire and a wire stripper.

Taking each piece cut to about the height of the grid:
(http://i.imgur.com/02RT0R7.jpg?1)

Strip the end off in the normal way:
(http://i.imgur.com/UF2JZiX.jpg?2)

And for each following piece align them to about the width of a single key body:
(http://i.imgur.com/jkOjjXD.jpg?1)

If you trigger the strippers just until they almost bite you'll get nice clean sections of insulation cut down the core.
(http://i.imgur.com/iO4M0Nv.jpg?2)

I threaded these behind the rows and aligned them into place before soldering, it's useful to slide the insulated sections as far away as possible from the solder point to prevent melting or neighbouring wires pressing through the through the warmed insulation:
(http://i.imgur.com/SMMGjEn.jpg)

You may be able to make out some small dimples in some of the pieces of insulation indicating their position while the wire was hot mid-solder, none of them melted all the way through but it's probably best to make sure they're repositioned so the row wires aren't sitting over them when in normal operation.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Wed, 08 April 2015, 17:26:09
PACE just made a bunch of process guides available on their website:
http://paceworldwide.com/pacenter/process-guides

Bunch of videos and PDFs available, too. Perhaps these will be useful? I know PACE's old videos on youtube were highly regarded by some.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: En4cer408 on Wed, 08 April 2015, 17:52:06
what kit should i buy for a 1st timer
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Bovakine on Thu, 09 April 2015, 11:04:40
I'm completely new to soldering and trying to figure out what kind of equipment I should buy.  I had done some research and found the Weller WLC100 40-Watt Soldering Station to buy highly recommended for beginners.  Also, the price is only $40, which I like.  Would I be better off getting a more budget/beginner station like the Weller, or should I make a more significant investment in an Edsyn station?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rose on Thu, 09 April 2015, 18:31:51
Here is my first practice soldering.  I was surprised by how quickly the solder turned to liquid (instantly). I never felt like I was getting enough on there and every time I tried to add more it seemed to disappear.  I think it was sticking to the tip of the iron.  I am using 40 watt Weller with a 0.8 mm tip and 63/37  0.02 inch solder.  The connections all seem to be holding.  I realize the second diode is backwards.  Do these look acceptable?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tbc on Fri, 10 April 2015, 02:44:34
what does it mean when a switch only actuates when fully depressed and only sometimes at that.

is that a solder problem or a switch problem?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Fri, 10 April 2015, 04:17:44
Here is my first practice soldering.  I was surprised by how quickly the solder turned to liquid (instantly). I never felt like I was getting enough on there and every time I tried to add more it seemed to disappear.  I think it was sticking to the tip of the iron.  I am using 40 watt Weller with a 0.8 mm tip and 63/37  0.02 inch solder.  The connections all seem to be holding.  I realize the second diode is backwards.  Do these look acceptable?

If your solder melts onto the iron, that usually indicates your joint is not getting enough heat. The tip should hold a tiny bit of solder to help transferring heat to the joint. After that the solder should be added to the joint, not the iron. If the surfaces you are trying to solder are very oxidized or covered in some other gunk (like lacquer) you may experience similar problems as well.

You picture is a bit blurry. It's hard to tell about the joints, but at least they don't look horrible.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 10 April 2015, 07:19:37
The wlc-100 is not a good iron. It's variable power fixed temp and the iron heater is horrid as are the tips. You are better off with a high quality fixed temp iron instead.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rose on Fri, 10 April 2015, 10:30:03
Here is my first practice soldering.  I was surprised by how quickly the solder turned to liquid (instantly). I never felt like I was getting enough on there and every time I tried to add more it seemed to disappear.  I think it was sticking to the tip of the iron.  I am using 40 watt Weller with a 0.8 mm tip and 63/37  0.02 inch solder.  The connections all seem to be holding.  I realize the second diode is backwards.  Do these look acceptable?

If your solder melts onto the iron, that usually indicates your joint is not getting enough heat. The tip should hold a tiny bit of solder to help transferring heat to the joint. After that the solder should be added to the joint, not the iron. If the surfaces you are trying to solder are very oxidized or covered in some other gunk (like lacquer) you may experience similar problems as well.

You picture is a bit blurry. It's hard to tell about the joints, but at least they don't look horrible.
[/quote]

Hopefully one of these pictures is better.  I did notice on the last one that I had the most success when I heated up the joint only and then quickly removed the tip and applied the solder.  I hadn't intentionally put a dab of solder on the tip to help transfer heat but I think there was already some on the joint from a previous attempt.  I'll try putting a little on the tip, heating the joint, then applying solder to the heated joint.  Would it make sense to use a larger tip in this case?  The solder I'm using is very thin and I can be fairly precise when applying it so maybe heating up a larger area of the joint would make things easier. 

[attachmini=1][attachmini=2]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Joey Quinn on Fri, 10 April 2015, 10:52:08
Hopefully one of these pictures is better.  I did notice on the last one that I had the most success when I heated up the joint only and then quickly removed the tip and applied the solder.  I hadn't intentionally put a dab of solder on the tip to help transfer heat but I think there was already some on the joint from a previous attempt.  I'll try putting a little on the tip, heating the joint, then applying solder to the heated joint.  Would it make sense to use a larger tip in this case?  The solder I'm using is very thin and I can be fairly precise when applying it so maybe heating up a larger area of the joint would make things easier. 

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

You don't need to remove the iron then apply the solder, just use the tip to heat the joint and place the solder near the tip but not on it. In this case a larger tip could help but as mkawa said the 40W Weller is pretty rough, a better station will help you more.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Tue, 14 April 2015, 03:08:15
Damn. I can't get JBC station even if I win the first prize!

http://bit.ly/1Cv9NxG
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Evo_Spec on Tue, 14 April 2015, 03:19:36
Unfortunately I already finished my board but someone mentioned something about their PCB bowing which brought up this question in my head.

When I have a PCB that has a slight bow in it should I be bending it to straighten it out or just deal with that when I'm soldering the switches to it? (cause that's what I did, I did the 4 corners and then slightly pushed the middle and soldered some joints there to hold it)
I was worried about bending it back because of the controller and other components that were already soldered on the PCB.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Sun, 26 April 2015, 04:41:32
Just started my project, does it look like I'm doing this right so far?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ouro on Mon, 27 April 2015, 09:10:44
Picked up some stuff to build my RS84. How did I do?

Picked up:
Hakko FX888D
Chisel tip for the Hakko
Kester "44" Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .031"
Desoldering braid

Will be desoldering a Cherry MX8100 G80-8113 with MX Clears.


My only previous experience with soldering has been with my PSU cables.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fknraiden on Mon, 27 April 2015, 19:42:53
Picked up some stuff to build my RS84. How did I do?

Picked up:
Hakko FX888D
Chisel tip for the Hakko
Kester "44" Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .031"
Desoldering braid

Will be desoldering a Cherry MX8100 G80-8113 with MX Clears.


My only previous experience with soldering has been with my PSU cables.

You dun did good. I'm about to get a 880 myself, please let me know how you like it. Desoldering will take the most time, especially with braid. I suggest getting a soldapult.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Mon, 27 April 2015, 21:18:58
I prefer conical cut tip(BC or C) than chiel tip(D) but it is totally personal preference. Try both and ohter tips if possible.
Get solder sucker also. Both braid and it are needed for desoldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TomBodet on Mon, 27 April 2015, 22:12:37
OK, I'm going to add to the "what should I get" part of this thread...

I've got a Dox Infinity coming once the drop ships and have read this thread top to bottom and am no closer to figuring what I should pick up.

I'm not new to soldering but my experience is limited to cable repairs and connectors, no board work (unless you count the Heath kit I never got working in high school).  For the last 2 decades I've had the same fixed watt iron I probably got at either RS or from some cheapo tool kit.  It's tired and is not gonna hack it for this.

I thought about the Hakko until mkawa re-evaled it months later.  Weller has always been in every shop I've ever worked out of but have read comments in other places that their quality has slipped a little; don't know if that's just a couple angry guys that got a bum unit or if there's anything to it, but a WES51 looks to be next on the list of options.  The 951sxe on geekhackers is of a curiosity but don't really know anything about them (ok like I know anything about any of these companies...).

Frankly I pull the iron out once or twice a year.  This will be by far the most soldering I've done in say the last 10 years put together.  I just want something that's gonna last me a long while so if I pay for it now, I'm not re-paying in another 5 years (I can be ridiculously cheap).  That's my biggest concern about the digital stuff, more things that can go wrong even when not being used.

Recommendations?

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 28 April 2015, 00:58:57
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=D2061ACA9EDE7042&id=D2061ACA9EDE7042%2110753&v=3&authkey=%21AB_CFwR7YMCLrTY

I recorded a session of me soldering, so this is how I do solderings :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Joey Quinn on Tue, 28 April 2015, 01:07:18
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=D2061ACA9EDE7042&id=D2061ACA9EDE7042%2110753&v=3&authkey=%21AB_CFwR7YMCLrTY

I recorded a session of me soldering, so this is how I do solderings :)

That bin of trimmings at the start.  :eek:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 28 April 2015, 02:03:46
Yes there is no space left in that anymore :S have to place each new addition carefully :D I should throw them away, or at least some of them, but they are so useful! Fix up loads of stuff with old legs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Joey Quinn on Tue, 28 April 2015, 02:36:01
Yeah, I always save a little baggie of legs to use as jumpers. At this point how quickly can you do a JD40?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: margo baggins on Tue, 28 April 2015, 02:45:03
I don't know really. That video didn't have putting all the diodes in place and soldering them, which is maybe the slowest bit. And it doesn't include sanding the case and screwing it all up together.

I would like to think if I went really quick I could do it in an hour, including the sanding and the diodes and trimming the switches, but it's probably more like 1.5 hours. The idea of just building 1 JD40 at a time, is weird to me though haha.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Joey Quinn on Tue, 28 April 2015, 02:50:48
Ok, that's about what I was expecting. When I made my 42% it took about 2.5 but I had a bunch of SMT to solder and the case needed some sanding and filing.You really do crank them out though. Keep up the good work and don't let yourself burn out!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: greath on Fri, 01 May 2015, 10:27:49
Is this the solder most people are recommending to pick up? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231408574698)

I am planning on doing a switch swap out for right now. I have an Edsyn 951sxe and Soldapullt coming in. I have a multimeter. Looking at the list on the front page, I'm missing:

* Solder spool holder
* Magnifying lamp/Jewler's visor
* Smoke Absorber
* Separate Flux
* Helping Hands
* Heat gun

Do I NEED any of these things? I feel like most of these are quality of life enhancements. Not sure about the smoke absorber...

Is there something else you all would highly recommend I get (besides practice) before I start the project? I spent an entire summer soldering at an internship in high school, but that was almost 15 years ago I don't remember all the ins and outs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Evo_Spec on Fri, 01 May 2015, 19:59:27
Is this the solder most people are recommending to pick up? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231408574698)

I am planning on doing a switch swap out for right now. I have an Edsyn 951sxe and Soldapullt coming in. I have a multimeter. Looking at the list on the front page, I'm missing:

* Solder spool holder
* Magnifying lamp/Jewler's visor
* Smoke Absorber
* Separate Flux
* Helping Hands
* Heat gun

Do I NEED any of these things? I feel like most of these are quality of life enhancements. Not sure about the smoke absorber...

Is there something else you all would highly recommend I get (besides practice) before I start the project? I spent an entire summer soldering at an internship in high school, but that was almost 15 years ago I don't remember all the ins and outs.

Is this just for one keyboard? or are you looking to be using this station pretty regularly?
If you're not looking to do many projects then this stuff isn't needed but if you're going to be using this station weekly/bi-weekly then this stuff would make life a lot easier.
All i have is an iron, solder, solder sucker and tweezers because i only needed it for a board or 2.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ouro on Fri, 01 May 2015, 20:18:17
De soldered a bunch of switches on the mx8100 I purchased on eBay without the use of the de soldering ribbon. I have to admit, I was skeptical at first but it actually works!

Cleaned most solder points well AND no marks were left on the PCB.

Was soldering at 510F. Too high?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: greath on Fri, 01 May 2015, 22:05:50
Is this the solder most people are recommending to pick up? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231408574698)

I am planning on doing a switch swap out for right now. I have an Edsyn 951sxe and Soldapullt coming in. I have a multimeter. Looking at the list on the front page, I'm missing:

* Solder spool holder
* Magnifying lamp/Jewler's visor
* Smoke Absorber
* Separate Flux
* Helping Hands
* Heat gun

Do I NEED any of these things? I feel like most of these are quality of life enhancements. Not sure about the smoke absorber...

Is there something else you all would highly recommend I get (besides practice) before I start the project? I spent an entire summer soldering at an internship in high school, but that was almost 15 years ago I don't remember all the ins and outs.

Is this just for one keyboard? or are you looking to be using this station pretty regularly?
If you're not looking to do many projects then this stuff isn't needed but if you're going to be using this station weekly/bi-weekly then this stuff would make life a lot easier.
All i have is an iron, solder, solder sucker and tweezers because i only needed it for a board or 2.

Just one board for now. I see myself using the iron maybe 5 times a year for random projects and fixing things around the house.

Thanks, I guess that's all I really need for now then :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 02 May 2015, 09:19:50
So I was modding the switches on my ikbc today and when I soldered everything back together and tried to connect the keyboard I got a "USB device malfunctioned" error and it doesn't work.  Now I reckon it's impossible for you guys to know what went wrong but my thinking is that I maybe grazed something on the pcb which I shouldn't have with my iron.  The thing is, I have a pretty bad iron I think and I think it's maybe not optimal for this kind of soldering.  It's just the cheapest iron I found, it was about 15$.  It's only 30w, so I didn't think it would get too hot, but people have asked me if I'm soldering with a blowtorch.  It doesn't have any temperature settings.  Here is a picture of my setup. 
(http://i.imgur.com/zpy5IWY.jpg)
Here are pictures of the soldering job.
(http://i.imgur.com/nb6O7XX.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ONdnXxd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qqExLqj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2DyndWa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ubxmuP0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Du5C11U.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/SB06wKa.jpg)

It's pretty messy, anything I could be doing better? 

Also, this isn't the first time I've had problems. see  http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/30n0dp/soldering_issue/

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_lChtXnCm4PejBXcnZxVHVUaG5vV3RxVWxqb1Q1aFpUeFNB/view

So do I need a better Iron?  I'm not looking to spend much, just something that does the job, I don't solder much.  At minimum an iron which doesn't ruin my boards  :(.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 02 May 2015, 16:12:23
Ok so update:  I realized that one of the diodes was a little burnt (C3)

(http://i.imgur.com/SB06wKa.jpg)

Apparently I had grazed it with my iron accidentally.  I removed the diode and that fixed the problem.  I gather that diodes are for NKRO, does that mean that removing this one diode that I have NKRO -1 ?  Anyway after this problem was solved I had another problem, two of the switches didn'twork, turns out that the iron (?) on the other side of the pcb had disappeared:

(http://i.imgur.com/jEsZM5H.jpg)

How does this happen?  And is there a way to fix it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Joey Quinn on Sat, 02 May 2015, 17:30:34
That tends to happen after soldering/ desoldering a switch a few times or overheating the trace when soldering or desoldering. The fix is to jump from the pad or switch pin to another one of the same row or column (depending on which trace failed).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Sat, 02 May 2015, 17:53:44
Ok so update:  I realized that one of the diodes was a little burnt (C3)

Apparently I had grazed it with my iron accidentally.  I removed the diode and that fixed the problem.  I gather that diodes are for NKRO, does that mean that removing this one diode that I have NKRO -1 ?

That's not a diode. It's a ceramic capacitor, and you likely shorted it and the pads it's on with that blob of solder as they are somewhat hard to 'burn'. It's probably a decoupling capacitor, and you should clean it up and solder it back.. ideally. If the board works without it, I suppose you could leave it off. If you had removed a diode instead, the switch on that diode would stop working.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: smknjoe on Sat, 02 May 2015, 18:15:54
Right, C3 stands for capacitor 3.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 06 May 2015, 18:16:38
Is this the solder most people are recommending to pick up? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231408574698)

I am planning on doing a switch swap out for right now. I have an Edsyn 951sxe and Soldapullt coming in. I have a multimeter. Looking at the list on the front page, I'm missing:

* Solder spool holder
* Magnifying lamp/Jewler's visor
* Smoke Absorber
* Separate Flux
* Helping Hands
* Heat gun

Do I NEED any of these things? I feel like most of these are quality of life enhancements. Not sure about the smoke absorber...

Is there something else you all would highly recommend I get (besides practice) before I start the project? I spent an entire summer soldering at an internship in high school, but that was almost 15 years ago I don't remember all the ins and outs.
yah, keep in mind that solder is probably as old as i am. no worries though; just make sure you have a dropper full of flux hanging out to get the solder flowing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vindaon on Fri, 22 May 2015, 19:52:37
Are lead free/ROHS compliant solders worth looking into or should I just stick with the standard 63/37?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Spopepro on Sat, 23 May 2015, 10:38:27
Are lead free/ROHS compliant solders worth looking into or should I just stick with the standard 63/37?

It depends... I've had some good experiences with high silver (4%) solders, especially when joining silver stranded ptfe  coated wire (63/37 doesn't always want to wet). However, the working temp of this solder, and indeed many lead-free solders, is much higher than 63/37. It's probably not a big deal for most keyboard parts, but more temp sensitive components (like electrolytic capacitors, some transistors and ICs, parts with plastic housings) require great care. You will also need an adjustable temp iron in many cases.

tl;dr yes, but not for beginners, and only if you're dedicated.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Tue, 26 May 2015, 23:35:35
Hey guys, what is the best temperature controlled station for ~$70? It needs to be Amazon so that I can get one day shipping on it. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Spopepro on Wed, 27 May 2015, 09:18:24
Hey guys, what is the best temperature controlled station for ~$70? It needs to be Amazon so that I can get one day shipping on it. Thanks!

There isn't one I'd reccomend at that price. At ~90 there's the venerable weller wes51 (and the similar hakko is the same price, I just don't remember the number).  This is assuming that by "temp controlled" you actually mean "adjustable temp".
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 27 May 2015, 09:27:58
Hey guys, what is the best temperature controlled station for ~$70? It needs to be Amazon so that I can get one day shipping on it. Thanks!

This one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I30QBW
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Mon, 01 June 2015, 14:09:30
I have a problem. I opened my Filco minila and discovered this.

You know how tough it can be when one switch lead is bent? Well, all the switch leads are bent on this keyboard. Including most of the 'tough' legs that normally are quite stiff.

Together with it being lead free solder and double sided PCB, I have no idea how to desolder this. But without desoldering, I can't get rid of the original switches and put in my own jailhouse mods.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 01 June 2015, 14:35:54
I ended up spending the money and just getting the Hakko FX-888D. It's my first high-end soldering station and I love all of the features of it. I wish it were a little more intuitive to use the digital controls, but no real complaints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Mon, 01 June 2015, 14:42:32
I have a problem. I opened my Filco minila and discovered this.

You know how tough it can be when one switch lead is bent? Well, all the switch leads are bent on this keyboard. Including most of the 'tough' legs that normally are quite stiff.

Together with it being lead free solder and double sided PCB, I have no idea how to desolder this. But without desoldering, I can't get rid of the original switches and put in my own jailhouse mods.

hey berserker, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but you'll just need to desolder and solda-pult the solder out like you normally would. Then with some needle nose pliars bend the switch wire straight. You may have to desolder twice, once before bending the wire and again after bending the wire.

...I hate it when they bend the switch leads like that too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 01 June 2015, 14:47:06
hey berserker, someone can correct me if I'm wrong but you'll just need to desolder and solda-pult the solder out like you normally would. Then with some needle nose pliars bend the switch wire straight. You may have to desolder twice, once before bending the wire and again after bending the wire.

...I hate it when they bend the switch leads like that too.

That's what I do but I'm not sure if it's any different for lead-free.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 01 June 2015, 20:19:50
lead-free has a slightly higher melting point, but if you apply fresh rosin flux when you desolder, you should be able to desolder it without screwing around with tip temperatures. another way to make it a bit easer to clean is to melt some fresh leaded solder on. with fresh flux and solder, particulates of the old joint will (in expectation) flow into a new ball of alloy, with any unmelted fragments becoming encapsulated in fresh metal. once mixed, the entire mass can be cleaned in one go without necessarily reprocessing all the metal in the old joint.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 02 June 2015, 09:31:15
I have a problem. I opened my Filco minila and discovered this.

You know how tough it can be when one switch lead is bent? Well, all the switch leads are bent on this keyboard. Including most of the 'tough' legs that normally are quite stiff.

Together with it being lead free solder and double sided PCB, I have no idea how to desolder this. But without desoldering, I can't get rid of the original switches and put in my own jailhouse mods.

Did you try soldering wick?
You can use a small copper soldering wick, the smaller the better in this case, 1.5mm-wick would be great.
To make it easier, you can add a bit of flux before desolder it.
[attachimg=1]
If you have a soldering pick, it would be also useful in this case.
[attachimg=2]

PS: Indeed, the soldering pump is still in need because it will help to desolder most of the solder. The soldering wick will only useful for cleaning mess or something got stuck in between the switch and the trace.
[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: greath on Wed, 03 June 2015, 08:49:00
Do you guys have any recommendations for magnifying lamps? I never thought I'd need something like this at 30 but... such is life.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: FreeChemicals on Wed, 03 June 2015, 19:51:54
Took my keyboard to the office today, to find a diode rattling around in the case after unpacking... I must have knocked it off while putting it back into the case yesterday (took it out to fix a blinking LED)...

Since I've only had 0805 1N4148 diodes lying around, I soldered one of those in place using a hot air station.

Tested with Switch Hitter, and it seemed to work fine ... until 6 keys just registered without touching them: p[;'\/ over and over again. http://dpaste.com/1JE7KQJ - a Switch Hitter log excerpt.

Granted, the soldering is ****. That was the first time after 2nd year in highschool, and should've been more careful. Some practice wouldn't have been a bad idea either.

It went haywire after desoldering (which was trial & error, obviously) the bottom row to make place for a 7u spacebar. In the end it worked fine, except for some LEDs which I've fixed yesterday. And then everything went to **** this morning...

(http://i.imgur.com/XcmLXpol.jpg) (http://imgur.com/XcmLXpo)

(http://i.imgur.com/8VJOSXVl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/8VJOSXV)

I've ordered some 1206 1N4148 diodes, but would the footprint even matter? I'm a bit lost ..  :-[
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sprit on Thu, 04 June 2015, 05:04:52
Show Image
...   Granted, the soldering is ****. That was the first time after 2nd year in highschool, and should've been more careful. Some practice wouldn't have been a bad idea either. 

It went haywire after desoldering (which was trial & error, obviously) the bottom row to make place for a 7u spacebar. In the end it worked fine, except for some LEDs which I've fixed yesterday. And then everything went to **** this morning...

(http://i.imgur.com/XcmLXpol.jpg) (http://imgur.com/XcmLXpo)


(http://i.imgur.com/8VJOSXVl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/8VJOSXV)

I've ordered some 1206 1N4148 diodes, but would the footprint even matter? I'm a bit lost ..  :-[

Yes!  Diodes are 1N4148  1206 inch (3.2x1.6mm) size.    Part No. is 1N4148W  SOD-123 
I will email in detail    ;)   
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sprit on Thu, 04 June 2015, 05:27:54
Did you try soldering wick?
You can use a small copper soldering wick, the smaller the better in this case, 1.5mm-wick would be great.
To make it easier, you can add a bit of flux before desolder it.
(Attachment Link)
If you have a soldering pick, it would be also useful in this case.
(Attachment Link)

PS: Indeed, the soldering pump is still in need because it will help to desolder most of the solder. The soldering wick will only useful for cleaning mess or something got stuck in between the switch and the trace.
(Attachment Link)
gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:08:27
Did you try soldering wick?
You can use a small copper soldering wick, the smaller the better in this case, 1.5mm-wick would be great.
To make it easier, you can add a bit of flux before desolder it.
(Attachment Link)
If you have a soldering pick, it would be also useful in this case.
(Attachment Link)

PS: Indeed, the soldering pump is still in need because it will help to desolder most of the solder. The soldering wick will only useful for cleaning mess or something got stuck in between the switch and the trace.
(Attachment Link)
gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

(http://www.cooltools.us/v/vspfiles/photos/SOL-301-2.jpg)

Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.



Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:20:32

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

Show Image
(http://www.cooltools.us/v/vspfiles/photos/SOL-301-2.jpg)


Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.

You can search for the term "Solder assist", "solder support", this one is a good set for example:
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakanren/sa-10/
(http://www.goot.jp/en/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SA-10_Eye-catch.jpg)

Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?
Yes, it is correct.

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

With Hakko FX888D, it should be melting fast. You can try to figure the tip if it was oxidized? If it is, you can fix it with sanding and re-tinning it. If it is not, you can also consider to use a Hakko Chisel tip 2-3.2mm if you want the best heating. The default Hakko conical tip is very bad on soldering Cherry MX switch because it is too small.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ASBJTjmFL._SL1000_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-DL2-Chisel-22-5mm-FX-8801/dp/B00762AHHQ

gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 04 June 2015, 07:45:26
Firstly guys, I got this done without much trouble. It was surprisingly manageable once I did the 1) adding fresh solder thing 2) usage of generous amounts of wick and flux 3) used a screwdriver to straighten the bent pins. Having a double sided through holes PCB really helped in this case as I don’t think a Cooler Master could have taken this. On average each pad had to take 1+4+3 seconds of heating in 3 separate sessions. (Adding solder, wicking, and straightening the pin.) The last did not involve actual contact with the pad since I was touching the pin, but doubtless the heat would have been intense still.

ALL freaking pins were bent by people whom I’ll call the Filco Fookers. WTF they went to the extra trouble of bending every single pin, I’ll never know.

BUT special thanks to Phoenix1234 for introducing me to the correct tool. Now I have a name to google and use. Soldering PICK? OK, great! How come you are from Vietnam and know all these English terms and I don’t? I’m gonna get that for the next time because I have other keyboards with bent pins, tytytttyytyty! (BTW don’t tell me you also get these at Sim Lim Tower?)

Zero pads damaged! Another minor victory under my belt! I’ve rarely lifted pads but scared as hell of lifting because it’s really hard to repair.

Addendum: thanks for your links for meow a cat!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Thu, 04 June 2015, 08:20:01

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

Show Image
(http://www.cooltools.us/v/vspfiles/photos/SOL-301-2.jpg)


Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.

You can search for the term "Solder assist", "solder support", this one is a good set for example:
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakanren/sa-10/
Show Image
(http://www.goot.jp/en/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SA-10_Eye-catch.jpg)


Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?
Yes, it is correct.

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

With Hakko FX888D, it should be melting fast. You can try to figure the tip if it was oxidized? If it is, you can fix it with sanding and re-tinning it. If it is not, you can also consider to use a Hakko Chisel tip 2-3.2mm if you want the best heating. The default Hakko conical tip is very bad on soldering Cherry MX switch because it is too small.
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ASBJTjmFL._SL1000_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-DL2-Chisel-22-5mm-FX-8801/dp/B00762AHHQ

gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.

Thanks for your help! I found a set of those tools on eBay. They should be handy!

I will try the advice you gave me. Should I use a really fine grit sandpaper, if I can't get it to heat properly again? I suppose it should be sandpaper for use on metal, not wood?

The tip I am having problems with is the same one you showed to me. I have not used the conical tip that came with my Hakko yet.

I also do not have flux. Perhaps that would help with my soldering and de-soldering.

Would this flux pen work?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Electroplax-Soldering-Rosin-Flux-Solder-Pen-Low-Solid-DIY-Solar-Cells-Panels-/281476737907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189522b73 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Electroplax-Soldering-Rosin-Flux-Solder-Pen-Low-Solid-DIY-Solar-Cells-Panels-/281476737907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189522b73)

Is it important to use a good brand of flux? Kester maybe?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/flux-pen-Kester-flux-pen-soldering-flux-pen-solar-cell-the-best-for-solar-panel-/251958345196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa9e33dec (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/flux-pen-Kester-flux-pen-soldering-flux-pen-solar-cell-the-best-for-solar-panel-/251958345196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa9e33dec)

Thanks again for your help!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: meow a cat on Thu, 04 June 2015, 10:18:17
(http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100Pcs-1N4148-IN4148-DO-35-switching-signal-Doide-/251508632603?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8f152c1b)

Can anyone confirm for me if these will work for building a Phantom?

I'm not sure what the 'DO-35' means.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zukoi on Thu, 04 June 2015, 10:59:59

I'm also having the same issue with bent pins, and solder that won't fully desolder. Searching for eBay and Google for 'soldering pick' just gives me these:

Show Image
(http://www.cooltools.us/v/vspfiles/photos/SOL-301-2.jpg)


Is there another name for that tool, a soldering pick with a split end like that?

Also, how exactly do I move the bent pins? Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

I'm using a Hakko FX888D, but I'm a soldering noob. I've been rather discouraged about using it, because so far all I've managed to do is lift a couple pads when I tried to de-solder my Filco numpad (which had the same bent pins as Berserk is dealing with). I also had trouble de-soldering a couple switches on my JD40.. my solder never wants to completely de-solder. There's always a little bit left no matter how much I try to get it all with my Soldapullt.

You can search for the term "Solder assist", "solder support", this one is a good set for example:
http://www.goot.jp/en/handakanren/sa-10/
Show Image
(http://www.goot.jp/en/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SA-10_Eye-catch.jpg)


Melt the solder with my iron, and while the solder is melted, push the pin with the pick?
Yes, it is correct.

And one more question. Last time I used my soldering iron to solder (I've been having the same issue with de-soldering), it didn't want to melt solder quickly whether I set the iron to 350, 400, or 700. I would have to hold the iron to the solder point and pin for ten seconds or so before I could melt the solder. Did I manage to oxidize my tip? It looks fine, nice and silvery.

With Hakko FX888D, it should be melting fast. You can try to figure the tip if it was oxidized? If it is, you can fix it with sanding and re-tinning it. If it is not, you can also consider to use a Hakko Chisel tip 2-3.2mm if you want the best heating. The default Hakko conical tip is very bad on soldering Cherry MX switch because it is too small.
Show Image
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ASBJTjmFL._SL1000_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-T18-DL2-Chisel-22-5mm-FX-8801/dp/B00762AHHQ

gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.

Thanks for your help! I found a set of those tools on eBay. They should be handy!

I will try the advice you gave me. Should I use a really fine grit sandpaper, if I can't get it to heat properly again? I suppose it should be sandpaper for use on metal, not wood?

The tip I am having problems with is the same one you showed to me. I have not used the conical tip that came with my Hakko yet.

I also do not have flux. Perhaps that would help with my soldering and de-soldering.

Would this flux pen work?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Electroplax-Soldering-Rosin-Flux-Solder-Pen-Low-Solid-DIY-Solar-Cells-Panels-/281476737907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189522b73 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Electroplax-Soldering-Rosin-Flux-Solder-Pen-Low-Solid-DIY-Solar-Cells-Panels-/281476737907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189522b73)

Is it important to use a good brand of flux? Kester maybe?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/flux-pen-Kester-flux-pen-soldering-flux-pen-solar-cell-the-best-for-solar-panel-/251958345196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa9e33dec (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/flux-pen-Kester-flux-pen-soldering-flux-pen-solar-cell-the-best-for-solar-panel-/251958345196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa9e33dec)

Thanks again for your help!!  :thumb:

You really do need flux for sure. I soldered a couple of things like my keyboard and a banggood clock and I found that flux helps a lot to get the solder to stick to where you want it to. Without it you are basically sticking a hot needle to hole.

As for which solder to get, I am not experienced enough to say that. But I can tell you that you shouldn't get crappy chinese flux. My dad had some weird flux in a small container and the flumes smell like butts and left a horrible residue that I couldn't brush off.

Since my dad does some plumbing jobs, he uses Oatey No.5. Very good stuff, doesn't smell horrible and sticks the solder very well. For some reason it is called solder paste even though it is just flux. Although, they warn not to use it on electronic parts http://www.oatey.com/doc/No_5_Flux.pdf (http://www.oatey.com/doc/No_5_Flux.pdf). I used it on my keyboard and I haven't had any issues. I think you will be fine if you clean the board with a toothbrush and alcohol afterwards since it is just the residue that is conductive.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:09:26
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said I’m very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isn’t crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost can’t see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:29:01
If you're using rosin-core solder, you shouldn't need flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zukoi on Thu, 04 June 2015, 11:47:25
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said I’m very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isn’t crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost can’t see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Flux is for cleaning the board. You need an clean surface for good wetting and dirty surfaces hurts the heat transfer. The cleaner the better in my eyes.

Technically you don't need flux if you have resin core wire. But sometimes the pad is stubborn and you need to drip the wire in flux to help the wetting. There is no real draw back to using more flux assuming you clean after yourself.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Thu, 04 June 2015, 12:45:08
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said I�m very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isn�t crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost can�t see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Flux is for cleaning the board. You need an clean surface for good wetting and dirty surfaces hurts the heat transfer. The cleaner the better in my eyes.

Technically you don't need flux if you have resin core wire. But sometimes the pad is stubborn and you need to drip the wire in flux to help the wetting. There is no real draw back to using more flux assuming you clean after yourself.

I would use Isopropyl Alcohol & a Q-Tip and/or toothprush to clean the pcb itself. Flux to clean the soldering pads. I'm not an expert though, just my basic soldering experience here.. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Zukoi on Thu, 04 June 2015, 12:55:23
Some solder pastes are not meant for PCBs because they are acidic and will kill PCB over time.

That said I�m very un-knowledeable about many things. I thought flux was for DEsoldering? I only ever use it for desoldering because soldering rarely causes me grief. I use Chinese flux and it isn�t crappy at all so YMMV. Just desoldered a hellish Filco where every single pin was folded over and I almost can�t see any change in the flux level in my bottle. (1 drop per pin was more than enough to send the solder shooting up the wick.) As usual I had a fan blowing, but there was no nasty smell.

And yes, brush and alcohol are MUSTS. Before AND After. Cleaning before makes desoldering easier especially if the work is an old keyboard.
Flux is for cleaning the board. You need an clean surface for good wetting and dirty surfaces hurts the heat transfer. The cleaner the better in my eyes.

Technically you don't need flux if you have resin core wire. But sometimes the pad is stubborn and you need to drip the wire in flux to help the wetting. There is no real draw back to using more flux assuming you clean after yourself.

I would use Isopropyl Alcohol & a Q-Tip and/or toothprush to clean the pcb itself. Flux to clean the soldering pads. I'm not an expert though, just my basic soldering experience here.. :)

Honestly, if it works, it works. Everyone has their own technique to solder and if you consistently get clean joints then  keep doing what you do.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Thu, 04 June 2015, 15:42:22
My query is, is flux really good for cleaning the board? It leaves a sticky residue that forces you to clean it again later, so I prefer a minimum use of flux. Or do I have an inferior version of flux? I personally am not impressed with flux cleaner. It gets the job done but doesn’t seem to have any other purpose other than de-stickyfying the board. Seems a waste to make the board sticky and then unsticky. In contrast, alcohol needs no cleaning up after.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 04 June 2015, 16:37:07
My query is, is flux really good for cleaning the board? It leaves a sticky residue that forces you to clean it again later, so I prefer a minimum use of flux. Or do I have an inferior version of flux? I personally am not impressed with flux cleaner. It gets the job done but doesn’t seem to have any other purpose other than de-stickyfying the board. Seems a waste to make the board sticky and then unsticky. In contrast, alcohol needs no cleaning up after.

You don't need it with rosin-core. You do need it without. Simple as that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Thu, 04 June 2015, 20:07:48
gootwick is one of the best afaik,  my daily use.

Yes, it is very good  :thumb:
MG Chemicals, Engineer, Hakko also have good wick but Goot wick is unbeatable.

Why do you guys prefer Goot to others? Are there any clear advantages?
I'm very curious, I'll have to try Goot wick again.

I've used Goot wick but I use Hakko wick recently for no reason. It felt like flux of Hakko wick works slightly better but not sure. I didn't have any problem with Goot wick, though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: berserkfan on Fri, 05 June 2015, 03:14:59
I have found Goot wick excellent but expensive. So I bought nameless brand Chinese wick that was totally useless if you don't add flux, but perfectly functioning after that. Now I think I'll stick with Nameless Brand Wick aka generic wick, and just add the flux instead. The cost savings is too much to ignore, something like 3:1 price difference.

Nonetheless if you have some advice to share I'm keen to learn. I've heard that flux is bad for PCBs in the long run due to acidity, so I should avoid adding flux?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 05:43:04
If we are using the mild acid flux which is usually for soldering the copper pipe, it will kill the keyboard switch, pcb trace, solder joins ... sooner or later. Fortunately, today there are many high quality flux which is non-corrosive and non-acidic, like this one :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230916005386
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDIxWDE0NzY=/z/LYkAAOSwBahVUiQ4/$_57.JPG)

This one is cheaper but required cleaning
www.ebay.com/itm/331041552716
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/LCIAAOxyBXNSVavd/$T2eC16V,!yMFIctmpPczBSV,vdQCH!~~60_57.JPG)


Quote from: hasu link=topic=42824.msg1769299#msg1769299
I've used Goot wick but I use Hakko wick recently for no reason. It felt like flux of Hakko wick works slightly better but not sure. I didn't have any problem with Goot wick, though.

Sure, it depends on how we use and like it.
There is no obvious evidence to back up one is better than the other.
I tried this Chemtronics before, it is also very good :
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/TukAAMXQsoNRisN~/$T2eC16ZHJF0FFZ5pO0DvBRisN-%29kH!~~60_12.JPG)

Quote from: berserkfan
ALL freaking pins were bent by people whom I’ll call the Filco Fookers. WTF they went to the extra trouble of bending every single pin, I’ll never know.

BUT special thanks to Phoenix1234 for introducing me to the correct tool. Now I have a name to google and use. Soldering PICK? OK, great! How come you are from Vietnam and know all these English terms and I don’t? I’m gonna get that for the next time because I have other keyboards with bent pins, tytytttyytyty! (BTW don’t tell me you also get these at Sim Lim Tower?)

I'm glad that you like it  :thumb:
I can order the solder assist in Vietnam but of course you can get it from Sim Lim Tower, there are many things there  :))

PS: if you want to blame about the bent pin, you should blame the Datacomp  I can see that 2 keyboards manufactured by Datacomp  have that kind of ridiculous bent : SteelSeries 7G & Filco Minila (maybe more) but it seems Datacomp is the one with that infamous bent pin  :-\

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Fri, 05 June 2015, 08:03:35
Are tip tinner some kind of flux like you guys talk about?

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 08:40:51
Are tip tinner some kind of flux like you guys talk about?

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/)

Usually tip cleaner is a composition of solder powder, oxide-reducing chemicals (flux) and something else so it should not be consider as flux alone.

As you can see in the advertising, after opened, it seems the product mostly has solder powder.

PS:
http://www.qualitek.com/Tinner.PDF
Oxidation-Reduction chemicals in this case is Monoammonium Phosphate
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Fri, 05 June 2015, 13:37:11
Are tip tinner some kind of flux like you guys talk about?

http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/spares-accessories/tip-tinner/)

Usually tip cleaner is a composition of solder powder, oxide-reducing chemicals (flux) and something else so it should not be consider as flux alone.

As you can see in the advertising, after opened, it seems the product mostly has solder powder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-1gD60_Qg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx-1gD60_Qg)

PS:
http://www.qualitek.com/Tinner.PDF (http://www.qualitek.com/Tinner.PDF)
Oxidation-Reduction chemicals in this case is Monoammonium Phosphate


Would it be enough so to just sink the tip of the iron in it before applying the soldering matter? I guess the flux it has would go into the soldering matter, doesn't it?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: greath on Fri, 05 June 2015, 14:22:21
Going to be doing my first ever SMD soldering (diodes and resistors). I need some advice:

1. I have an Edsyn 951sxe (http://www.geekhackers.org/products/edsyn-951sxe) with the standard medium tip. Do I need to purchase a different tip or will the medium one work well?

2. I currently have 63/37 .031" solder. Do I need .020"? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kester-245-No-Clean-Solder-63-37-020-3-4oz-Dispense-Pak-48-feet-of-wire-/230913317335?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c38199d7)

3. Flux. Do I need some (outside of what's in the solder)? I am not going to be soldering a controller from my understand, and I believe this is where flux is needed most.

4. There seem to be about 1000x ways to smd solder on youtube. Does anyone have a video they would recommend?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 05 June 2015, 15:05:15
copying my response from pm:

for resistors and diodes, the included 1.6mm chisel tip is a good choice. what you want to focus on is making sure the pad is wet before you place the component onto the board. for example, for an SMD resistor, you will put a tiny tiny solder ball onto one of the pads, then in one hand use a pair of tweezers to position the resistor onto the board and the other to re-melt the ball onto both the solder pad and the resistor. with the resistor now held in place by the one joint, solder the other joint as usual.

1.6mm is especially nice for this because ~1mm tips tend to be conical instead of spades. you want to use the spade part of the tip to apply heat to the solder ball, pcb pad and resistor simultaneously.

there are lots of good solder videos on line, but i haven't watched most of them. check out eevblog's videos though; he is always 100% dead on with his suggestions and howtos.

the biggest part though is don't be afraid. enjoy!! :)

Quote
2. I currently have 63/37 .031" solder. Do I need .020"?

3. Flux. Do I need some (outside of what's in the solder)? I am not going to be soldering a controller from my understand, and I believe this is where flux is needed most.

2. 0.03" is fine.

3. pick up a small bottle of MG chemical liquid RA flux #835. use a dropper bottle to dispense it.

youtube slide soldering for the controller.

remember to enjoy! if you're worried, practice and then don't worry :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Fri, 05 June 2015, 18:34:33
Would it be enough so to just sink the tip of the iron in it before applying the soldering matter? I guess the flux it has would go into the soldering matter, doesn't it?

I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly but if you want to ask about the tip cleaner, I think we should only use it when the tip is badly oxidized that we cannot fix it with normal solder and flux. I believe if we use the tip cleaner so frequently, it will have negative effect on the tip.  For daily tip cleaning, applying solder + brass sponge is a cheaper and easier method. Besides, rosin core solder like Kester 44 has flux already, so we don't need to add extra flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 06 June 2015, 07:23:12
What do you think of that soldering kit guys?
http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: azhdar on Sat, 06 June 2015, 07:37:57
What do you think of that soldering kit guys?
http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/)

be careful that's not a french eletric plug :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 06 June 2015, 08:09:41
What do you think of that soldering kit guys?
http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/toolkits/xs25-toolkit/)

be careful that's not a french eletric plug :)


Yeah I know, I already asked them to switch it :) . They offer european plug as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lpwl on Sat, 06 June 2015, 10:30:26
My query is, is flux really good for cleaning the board? It leaves a sticky residue that forces you to clean it again later, so I prefer a minimum use of flux. Or do I have an inferior version of flux? I personally am not impressed with flux cleaner. It gets the job done but doesn't seem to have any other purpose other than de-stickyfying the board. Seems a waste to make the board sticky and then unsticky. In contrast, alcohol needs no cleaning up after.

I decided to solder my GON NerD PCB this afternoon and everything was going well until I tried to clean the flux with some Isopropyl alcohol (bought from Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/130884821659)).

My problem is that even with the help of an (old) toothbrush and some Q-tips, I'm having some difficulties to completly remove any flux residues.

> I'm using some Kester 63/37 .031" resin-core (RA) solder so this how it looks before (on the right) / after cleaning (on the left) :

(http://i.imgur.com/G4INSpw.jpg)

Even after I tried to clean it, the PCB looks (and feels) sticky in many places, like this :

(http://i.imgur.com/xzcWHdn.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/UdXoLhS.jpg)



> I only cleaned 20% of the PCB using that method but I'm wondering if I should scrub harder ?

Use more IPA ?

By the way, I'm a total newbie regarding soldering so any advice is welcome !
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 06 June 2015, 10:48:06
Are those yellow things LEDs? On the back of the PCB?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lpwl on Sat, 06 June 2015, 10:53:10
Are those yellow things LEDs? On the back of the PCB?

Yeap, those are SMD LEDs for side lighting :

(http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/141-thickbox_default/gon-ns-nerd-tkl-w-tuningassembly.jpg)


Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Sat, 06 June 2015, 11:39:24
Pimplights! And I learned something this day as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: scott.stamp on Sat, 06 June 2015, 17:31:13
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230916005386
Show Image
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDIxWDE0NzY=/z/LYkAAOSwBahVUiQ4/$_57.JPG)

I use this stuff (cheap from DigiKey, I use MG Chemicals solder too), it's great flux but it's super annoying to clean up. 99% IPA gets it but I usually have to scrub with a toothbrush. Apparently "real" flux cleaner makes easy work of it.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 06 June 2015, 18:19:01
hardcore flux cleaner is incredibly bad for you. stick to 90+% isoprop and vigorous scrubbing. rinse with DI water. let the iso sit on the blobs for a bit to soak into the flux balls.

hardcore flux cleaners are horrible organic solvents that will dissolve your bones and eyeballs (hyperbole, but yah, nasty stuff).

SPEAKING OF! tip cleaners are ALSO nasty nasty organic solvents with halides and other nasty crap in them.  take care of your tip, liberally use flux and solder to keep your tip tinned and scrub any nasty spots AT TEMP with a brass brush (cheap ones available at local hardware store or harbor freight) and liberal use of flux and solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lpwl on Sun, 07 June 2015, 04:33:31
Alright thank you !

I'll keep rubbing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Parak on Sun, 07 June 2015, 11:07:48
Alright thank you !

I'll keep rubbing.

So the point is to not rub the flux all over the board, but to dilute the solids into the isopropyl and to get the resulting liquid away from the boards, otherwise it will just dry up and leave a sticky mess. After sufficiently scrubbing away any solid or sticky spots of flux, blot away with some paper and throw it away. Repeat as needed. Kimwipes are good for it, but any softish paper should do the trick as long as you blot and not rub it around to leave bits and pieces of paper on all the parts and pins.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Lpwl on Sun, 07 June 2015, 14:23:37
Roger that.

Thanks !

EDIT : It's working really well, thank you both once again.

:thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: katushkin on Thu, 11 June 2015, 08:56:29
So I'm going to get into this. Because I really need to and there aren't that many solderers in the UK past suicidal_orange and Margo.

I'm buying a basic setup until I can actually solder worth a damn, but I do need a desoldering pump and some decent solder. Any UK based DIYers have any recommendations for pumps or solder and where to buy?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Hzza on Thu, 11 June 2015, 10:15:23
Ebay is really good for entry level soldering gear I found.

I use one of these pumps...actually, I use its worse little brother, but the one I have is sold out and more expensive than this one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10212-HQ-Anti-static-Vacuum-Desolder-Pump-Tool-Desoldering-Tip-Solder-Remover/291352487929?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29271%26meid%3D97182d5f079949ef801e5ddcd6579464%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D280839806977

Solder wise, I think I just grabbed whatever 60/40 was cheap off of ebay.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 11 June 2015, 10:29:43
What I do is buy one good roll of 63/37 for soldering and then I'll buy a large amount of the cheap 60/40 for desoldering and cleaning the tip. I also use this desoldering pump: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JFOR9G0/.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bcredbottle on Tue, 23 June 2015, 12:59:39
I am on the Keycool numpad drop. It has white LEDs. Can I put any LED's in there as long as they're 3mm, or is there some other compatibility consideration (e.g. resistance, color) that might affect my ability to swap in different LEDs?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: wes1099 on Tue, 23 June 2015, 15:52:40
I am on the Keycool numpad drop. It has white LEDs. Can I put any LED's in there as long as they're 3mm, or is there some other compatibility consideration (e.g. resistance, color) that might affect my ability to swap in different LEDs?
Most 3mm LED's have a 'flange' around the bottom (small lip of plastic) that prevents you from inserting them into mx switches. You can either shave off that small lip of plastic, or you can get flangeless 3mm LEDs. You can get 3mm flangeless LEDs here (digikey) (http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/3mm-t-1-single-color-leds-flangeless/44193), or here (maxkeyboards website) (http://www.maxkeyboard.com/products/parts-and-accesssories/led-lights.html#) As far as resistance, you could swap the stock resistors for a resistor to match the particular LED, but the resistors are most likely tiny SMD resistors that will be rather difficult to solder. If you do not use the proper resistor to match the LED you might overvolt/undervolt it which might reduce the LED's lifetime. Also, if you do not use the proper resistor to match the LED, certain colors will be brighter/dimmer than others (if you use multiple colors).


Here is an example of a normal 3mm LED with a 'flange':
(http://media.digikey.com/Photos/Everlight%20Electronics/IR204.jpg)

And here is an example of a 'flangeless' 3mm LED:
(http://media.digikey.com/photos/Visual%20Communications%20Company%20VCC/VAOL-3HSBY4.JPG)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: wes1099 on Tue, 23 June 2015, 16:18:46
What I do is buy one good roll of 63/37 for soldering and then I'll buy a large amount of the cheap 60/40 for desoldering and cleaning the tip. I also use this desoldering pump: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00JFOR9G0/.
That's a good idea. Where I get my soldering gear there is only a $0.05 price difference between 63/37 and 60/40 (1lb spool) so I just buy the 63/37.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 18 July 2015, 03:54:18
Do you know where I could find some soldering kit for noobies? Stuff like mini-drones or w/e to learn to solder before going on real $100 PCB ^^.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:08:17
These aren't kits with actual uses as such, but if you want to practice SMD/drag soldering you could look at these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400888491402?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381065552216?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391113319830?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
5 bucks or so each, contains some 0805s and a bunch of SOIC/QFP parts.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:23:21
or you can buy some Prototype PCB and practice through-hole soldering with 16-20awg copper wire
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390954497575
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:25:21
These aren't kits with actual uses as such, but if you want to practice SMD/drag soldering you could look at these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400888491402?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/400888491402?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/381065552216?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/381065552216?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391113319830?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/391113319830?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
5 bucks or so each, contains some 0805s and a bunch of SOIC/QFP parts.


Ok thanks and in order to practice for switches. Do you know where I could get some too?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:27:01
or you can buy some Prototype PCB and practice through-hole soldering with 16-20awg copper wire
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390954497575 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/390954497575)


Is it what you can use to practice soldering for switches?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:28:11
Soldering wire to the boards phoenix suggested would be close enough, I think. it's essentially the same thing insofar as switch leads are at some level a wire protruding through a plated hole.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 18 July 2015, 04:37:25
Thanks for your suggestion guys!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sun, 19 July 2015, 01:50:13
If you are really in SMD soldering, you should follow twiddle suggestion.
For through hole soldering, I think a test board and a couple of solid core wire are good enough.
If you don't have the test board, you can do the practice on wire alone. It could be an interesting lesson.
[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sun, 19 July 2015, 13:03:36
If you are really in SMD soldering, you should follow twiddle suggestion.
For through hole soldering, I think a test board and a couple of solid core wire are good enough.
If you don't have the test board, you can do the practice on wire alone. It could be an interesting lesson.
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


My PCB has the SMD presoldered so it will be only a matter of soldering the switches and sip socket. I forgot but I have a switch tester from Massdrop a while ago and it comes with a PCB. I think I'll use it to learn how to solder switches and get comfortable using my soldering gear. I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I'll have to solder SMD. ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 23 July 2015, 07:38:53
My PCB has the SMD presoldered so it will be only a matter of soldering the switches and sip socket. I forgot but I have a switch tester from Massdrop a while ago and it comes with a PCB. I think I'll use it to learn how to solder switches and get comfortable using my soldering gear. I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I'll have to solder SMD. ;)

In fact, SMD / drag soldering is quite difficult if you don't have the right tools for the right jobs. So you may need to buy some soldering tips until then. Sometimes, I find myself difficult to do that even my Weller WSP80 has a lot of small tips for SMD soldering.

(http://i.imgur.com/maUKwYS.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Thu, 23 July 2015, 09:03:45
My PCB has the SMD presoldered so it will be only a matter of soldering the switches and sip socket. I forgot but I have a switch tester from Massdrop a while ago and it comes with a PCB. I think I'll use it to learn how to solder switches and get comfortable using my soldering gear. I'll keep your suggestions in mind when I'll have to solder SMD. ;)

In fact, SMD / drag soldering is quite difficult if you don't have the right tools for the right jobs. So you may need to buy some soldering tips until then. Sometimes, I find myself difficult to do that even my Weller WSP80 has a lot of small tips for SMD soldering.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/maUKwYS.jpg)



I already have 1.0mm tip and 0.5mm tip. IIRC DanielT told me 0.5mm would do the job on SMD soldering jobs. What kind of tips do you have?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: VinnyCordeiro on Thu, 23 July 2015, 10:02:03
Just found this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MNLTc7YhY) on YouTube. Very useful, I wish I could buy Kapton tape easily here in Brazil.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Thu, 23 July 2015, 16:16:18
Just found this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MNLTc7YhY) on YouTube. Very useful, I wish I could buy Kapton tape easily here in Brazil.

Ya, thats an interesting watch.  I guess that is pretty much the same thing as magnet wire.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sat, 25 July 2015, 06:49:04
I already have 1.0mm tip and 0.5mm tip. IIRC DanielT told me 0.5mm would do the job on SMD soldering jobs. What kind of tips do you have?

0.5mm tip would be great. However, the shape of the tip is also important. If you have 0.5 round tip, you may need to solder one join at a time and it may take longer time to complete a project. Besides, round tip is not really good in heat transferring so you may face some problems like cold join.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Sat, 25 July 2015, 07:04:49
All of the drag soldering that you can see in my custom controller thread in making stuff together was done with an AOYUE T-2C tip:
(http://i.imgur.com/6cYKBGr.png)
No gull-wing but just a flat bevel cut tip. Works well for almost everything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sat, 25 July 2015, 08:40:27
I already have 1.0mm tip and 0.5mm tip. IIRC DanielT told me 0.5mm would do the job on SMD soldering jobs. What kind of tips do you have?

0.5mm tip would be great. However, the shape of the tip is also important. If you have 0.5 round tip, you may need to solder one join at a time and it may take longer time to complete a project. Besides, round tip is not really good in heat transferring so you may face some problems like cold join.


Here is the tip in question: http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/replacement-bits/50-bits-for-xs,mlxs/b005560/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/replacement-bits/50-bits-for-xs,mlxs/b005560/)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sethk_ on Sat, 25 July 2015, 10:52:56
I already have 1.0mm tip and 0.5mm tip. IIRC DanielT told me 0.5mm would do the job on SMD soldering jobs. What kind of tips do you have?

0.5mm tip would be great. However, the shape of the tip is also important. If you have 0.5 round tip, you may need to solder one join at a time and it may take longer time to complete a project. Besides, round tip is not really good in heat transferring so you may face some problems like cold join.
I use a 1.2mm tip for SMD and 2.4mm tip for switches. If you use a too small tip for the switches, it won't go around the full way without you going around with the tip and leave a cold joint

Here is the tip in question: http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/replacement-bits/50-bits-for-xs,mlxs/b005560/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/replacement-bits/50-bits-for-xs,mlxs/b005560/)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ngt on Sun, 26 July 2015, 03:14:52
I already have 1.0mm tip and 0.5mm tip. IIRC DanielT told me 0.5mm would do the job on SMD soldering jobs. What kind of tips do you have?

0.5mm tip would be great. However, the shape of the tip is also important. If you have 0.5 round tip, you may need to solder one join at a time and it may take longer time to complete a project. Besides, round tip is not really good in heat transferring so you may face some problems like cold join.
I use a 1.2mm tip for SMD and 2.4mm tip for switches. If you use a too small tip for the switches, it won't go around the full way without you going around with the tip and leave a cold joint

Here is the tip in question: http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/replacement-bits/50-bits-for-xs,mlxs/b005560/ (http://www.antex.co.uk/soldering/replacement-bits/50-bits-for-xs,mlxs/b005560/)
Yeah DanielT advised me a 1.0mm tip for switches and the 0.5mm for SMD. I haven't tried yet so I don't know how I feel about them yet.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sun, 26 July 2015, 03:46:49
I second that type of tip. I use Hakko 2BC or 3BC conical cut tips for everything, both SMD and through hole. It is versatile, you can QFP drag solder, fix solder bridge, remove excess solder and etc. with the tip.

If PCB has enough space between components you won't need much thin tip like 1.0 or 0.5mm. But thin solder wire like 0.5mm or less is useful for SMD soldering from my experience.
All of the drag soldering that you can see in my custom controller thread in making stuff together was done with an AOYUE T-2C tip:
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6cYKBGr.png)

No gull-wing but just a flat bevel cut tip. Works well for almost everything.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: kishagi on Sat, 12 September 2015, 08:47:10
Does anybody have some advice for desoldering the switches off of the Filco Majestouch 2 boards? Im trying to switch the springs to 80g that I bought from Massdrop. Im quite sure that Ive already messed up a few times. I tried to follow that video on youtube that shows how to remove the switch tops from plate mounted switches, only to find out that factory plates are made differently than the one shown in the video...

Here's what I'm concerned about:

The solder staying within the holes and finding a way to get it out properly
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/kishagi/IMG_20150912_0905271.jpg)

Finding new pads for the LEDs
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/kishagi/IMG_20150912_0905511.jpg)

Pins breaking off the switches upon removal
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/kishagi/IMG_20150912_0907331.jpg)

Copper inserts coming out along with the switches
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t111/kishagi/IMG_20150912_0906522.jpg)

Thanks for your help!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sat, 12 September 2015, 09:34:44
The solder staying within the holes and finding a way to get it out properly
Finding new pads for the LEDs
Pins breaking off the switches upon removal
Copper inserts coming out along with the switches

Probably either of these :

+ Your soldering iron is not hot enough
   - You should wait until the soldering iron reach to the per-defined temperature before going to desolder another switch. Usually, the soldering station has a red-led, if it is blinking, it  means the soldering iron is not ready, you should wait until the red-led is off before soldering/desoldering.
   - You should set the soldering iron hot enough to desolder the lead-free solder joins. For lead-free solder, the temperature should be around 350-400 C degree.
+ The contact between your soldering iron is not so good
   - You should use or add a bit of solder to the switches before touching them
   - Please make sure the contact area between the soldering tip and the switch is large enough to transfer heat, you can try a different type of tip like chisel tip 2.4mm
+ Your soldering pump is not strong enough
   - Please make sure you have a good and solid soldering pump, otherwise the solder will get stuck
   - Please make sure the contact point between the pump and the solder join is close enough when desoldering

Possible solution for the problem of solder staying within the holes:
   - You can try to add a bit of solder back to that hole and desolder again
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jd29 on Sat, 12 September 2015, 13:15:56
Does anybody have some advice for desoldering the switches off of the Filco Majestouch 2 boards?

For me it came down to the iron simply being too weak. If you have a higher-wattage gun, that will work, but people say you shouldn't because the coils can put unwanted electricity through your work. My cheap Weller 7200 didn't hurt my switches or ICs or anything, though.

Edit: actually, you probably shouldn't do this. I used my gun on two boards with DIP microcontrollers marked 1977. Modern SMD chips may be a lot more sensitive. You might just need a higher wattage iron, if yours is closer to 40 like mine.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Bloo on Tue, 22 September 2015, 14:47:57
I have an RS84 that I finished putting together a few weeks ago and I'm having trouble with a column not responding.  I initially pulled all of the switches in the column, cleaned the through holes and resoldered them with no change.  I've done some continuity testing between the switches and controller, but i'm not a huge electronics person so I'm unsure where to go from there to figure out a fix.  I've circled the pins that seem to be responding on the multimeter.  Basically all of the upper pins in the column communicate with each other and with various points on the controller.  Anyone have an thoughts?

edit:  tested with new equipment and only one pin on the controller shows continuity to the switch, which I gather is normal.

Edit 2:  following some sound advise I tested while powered and found a short to ground on that column.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Bucake on Tue, 22 September 2015, 17:04:13
would anyone help me out with finding a good (EU-plug) soldering iron? :/

initially i got the edsyn 951SX recommended because of the high price-to-quality ratio it apparently has, but the 230-version costs about $100 dollars more than the 'regular' version, and i could only find US-based sources (which adds a ton of shipping costs + import charges and in turn 'kills the deal' a bit).

anyway.. i really just want a good soldering iron with an EU plug. i was thinking of 300 as budget, but i'm not sure how realistic that is?
i certainly care about quality (reliability, longevity, features, build quality...)
it's so annoying not to be able to mod (and clean!) my keyboards
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: KHAANNN on Tue, 22 September 2015, 19:56:02
Just found this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MNLTc7YhY) on YouTube. Very useful, I wish I could buy Kapton tape easily here in Brazil.

you might find it from 3d printing shops/communities, you can also get it from china for cheap
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 22 September 2015, 20:05:36
would anyone help me out with finding a good (EU-plug) soldering iron? :/

initially i got the edsyn 951SX recommended because of the high price-to-quality ratio it apparently has, but the 230-version costs about $100 dollars more than the 'regular' version, and i could only find US-based sources (which adds a ton of shipping costs + import charges and in turn 'kills the deal' a bit).

anyway.. i really just want a good soldering iron with an EU plug. i was thinking of 300 as budget, but i'm not sure how realistic that is?
i certainly care about quality (reliability, longevity, features, build quality...)
it's so annoying not to be able to mod (and clean!) my keyboards

If you are living in EU, you can easily find high quality Weller, ERSA, metcal soldering stations.
They should have default EU plug.
You can start with this one and set some more LT tips :
(http://images.weidinger.eu/products/800.014-promo-wsd-81i_2015-1.jpg)
http://www.weidinger.eu/en/shop/soldering_equipment/weller/weller_soldering_and_desoldering_device/weller_soldering_and_desoldering_stations/wl31307
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 23 September 2015, 05:15:03
I bought some extremely thin wire, 0.12mm^2. But how the hell am I supposed to strip it...?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Wed, 23 September 2015, 09:08:31
I bought some extremely thin wire, 0.12mm^2. But how the hell am I supposed to strip it...?
Good stripping tools like Hozan P-963, Hozan P-967 would do the jobs.
However, you can use a small electronic snipping pliers to strip it carefully.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 23 September 2015, 10:10:46
Great, now I have to learn what American Wire Gauge is.... Someone should hold the US upside down in a toilet bowl until they gave up and just converted everything to metric... OK, looks like about 26 AWG.
Well, I'll check the local hardware stores. Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swill on Wed, 23 September 2015, 15:09:40
Great, now I have to learn what American Wire Gauge is.... Someone should hold the US upside down in a toilet bowl until they gave up and just converted everything to metric... OK, looks like about 26 AWG.
Well, I'll check the local hardware stores. Thanks!
Google is your friend. Basically it is one gauge number different if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 16 October 2015, 16:35:57
How the **** do you solder surface-mount diodes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 16 October 2015, 16:38:24
pretty easy get some flux, put it onto pads with a q tip, line up the diode to the pads, tin your iron tip and just touch one side of the pad. then do the other
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 16 October 2015, 16:40:48
pretty easy get some flux, put it onto pads with a q tip, line up the diode to the pads, tin your iron tip and just touch one side of the pad. then do the other

They're just so small and annoying.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bcredbottle on Fri, 16 October 2015, 16:45:36
pretty easy get some flux, put it onto pads with a q tip, line up the diode to the pads, tin your iron tip and just touch one side of the pad. then do the other

They're just so small and annoying.

lol. What size tip are you using?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 16 October 2015, 16:46:55
pretty easy get some flux, put it onto pads with a q tip, line up the diode to the pads, tin your iron tip and just touch one side of the pad. then do the other

They're just so small and annoying.

lol. What size tip are you using?

The stock standard size, it can be done though. I just wasn't using flux. That should help a bit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: filphil on Fri, 16 October 2015, 19:53:05
pretty easy get some flux, put it onto pads with a q tip, line up the diode to the pads, tin your iron tip and just touch one side of the pad. then do the other

They're just so small and annoying.

lol. What size tip are you using?

The stock standard size, it can be done though. I just wasn't using flux. That should help a bit.

A bit is an understatement.  You'll face palm yourself so hard you'll forget what's in your hand and stab yourself with a soldering iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 16 October 2015, 20:13:38
pretty easy get some flux, put it onto pads with a q tip, line up the diode to the pads, tin your iron tip and just touch one side of the pad. then do the other

They're just so small and annoying.

lol. What size tip are you using?

The stock standard size, it can be done though. I just wasn't using flux. That should help a bit.

A bit is an understatement.  You'll face palm yourself so hard you'll forget what's in your hand and stab yourself with a soldering iron.
Can't wait
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Fri, 16 October 2015, 22:57:39
(http://i.imgur.com/TtoWZZD.jpg)

Little tutorial on how I handle the MELF-packaged diodes with Chip-Quik tack flux:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4692574/gh/Soldering_MELF_package.mp4

You can tack a bunch of the diodes on one side, then rotate the whole board and go back along the row to do the other side (faster when you are doing more than one).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trenzafeeds on Fri, 16 October 2015, 23:12:44
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/TtoWZZD.jpg)


Little tutorial on how I handle the MELF-packaged diodes with Chip-Quik tack flux:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4692574/gh/Soldering_MELF_package.mp4

You can tack a bunch of the diodes on one side, then rotate the whole board and go back along the row to do the other side (faster when you are doing more than one).

Those aren't the type I'm soldering
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Fri, 16 October 2015, 23:42:18
Those aren't the type I'm soldering

My bad. What package are the ones you are soldering? The MELF ones are the ones that seem to generate the most swearing, from what I've seen. The other packages that I've seen used aren't really any more difficult than SMT resistors or caps, I think.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: slaction on Thu, 22 October 2015, 16:46:18
I'm just starting to do some basic switch soldering with the Weller WCL100 and was wondering if anyone could give me advice on the best knob setting that works well for them?

I understand the knob is a power setting and not a temp setting, but I was just wondering if anyone familiar with that iron had any advice for the settings.

Thanks
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gabba-gool on Fri, 30 October 2015, 14:04:25
I'm debating between the Weller WES51 and the Hakko Digital FX888D. Not sure which one to go with. I should add that I'm relatively new to soldering work. I'm interested in swapping out switches on a board and possibly adding LEDs just as a fun project.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 30 October 2015, 14:15:27
I'm debating between the Weller WES51 and the Hakko Digital FX888D. Not sure which one to go with. I should add that I'm relatively new to soldering work. I'm interested in swapping out switches on a board and possibly adding LEDs just as a fun project.

I really love my Hakko 888.  Never tried the Weller.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gabba-gool on Fri, 30 October 2015, 14:20:13
I'm debating between the Weller WES51 and the Hakko Digital FX888D. Not sure which one to go with. I should add that I'm relatively new to soldering work. I'm interested in swapping out switches on a board and possibly adding LEDs just as a fun project.

I really love my Hakko 888.  Never tried the Weller.

I'm kind of leaning that way. Do you have the digital one?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trees on Fri, 30 October 2015, 15:01:09
I'm debating between the Weller WES51 and the Hakko Digital FX888D. Not sure which one to go with. I should add that I'm relatively new to soldering work. I'm interested in swapping out switches on a board and possibly adding LEDs just as a fun project.

I bought the Hakko 888D as a novice with no experience and just finished my first board! its a great iron, kept its heat up and was comfortable to keep going for a long time.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gabba-gool on Fri, 30 October 2015, 15:34:44
I'm debating between the Weller WES51 and the Hakko Digital FX888D. Not sure which one to go with. I should add that I'm relatively new to soldering work. I'm interested in swapping out switches on a board and possibly adding LEDs just as a fun project.

I bought the Hakko 888D as a novice with no experience and just finished my first board! its a great iron, kept its heat up and was comfortable to keep going for a long time.

Awesome! Thank you sir. Most likely going to purchase this one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Fri, 30 October 2015, 15:37:12
I'm debating between the Weller WES51 and the Hakko Digital FX888D. Not sure which one to go with. I should add that I'm relatively new to soldering work. I'm interested in swapping out switches on a board and possibly adding LEDs just as a fun project.

I really love my Hakko 888.  Never tried the Weller.

I'm kind of leaning that way. Do you have the digital one?

Yes.  I only had experience before with cheap adjustable ones.  It's like night and day moving to the Hakko.  If I had understood how much a difference it was from the cheap ones, I would have made the switch to Hakko years ago (but I guess the digital version didn't exist back then).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Fri, 30 October 2015, 16:14:49
I used a 25W iron from a scandinavian big-box chain for carparts and stuff. Cheap and functional.
Then I bought a SEEED iron from Massdrop. Holy **** was there a difference! Night and day...

Not to mention the Seed is the size of a screwdriver while the 25W was the size of a huge wrench! Very highly recommended! Reaches 300C in seconds and is adjustable from 100 to 400 in 10s.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: sitch on Sun, 01 November 2015, 07:02:16
Hey there's couple of questions

1. How do we know if a electrical component got burned? eg smd diodes.
2. How long can we put soldering iron 30W to a solder before it get burned?
3. Can we identify which mx switch is bad? some of my switches doesnt trigger the key..
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: myotherteeshirt on Sun, 01 November 2015, 22:16:21
Hi all,

I need some advice on desoldering 4 pin RGD LEDs. I created a new thread but i suppose this is the proper place to ask.

Whats happening now is i'm able to get the blob of solder on the pad out, but the solder that is in the hole stays and refuses to budge.

[attachimg=1]

I have some solder wick, a solder pump (pictured) and a seeed mini soldering iron with a bevel tip. The solder wick has been absolutely useless so far, but i'll try using some flux with it - saw that suggestion somewhere in this thread.

As for the solder pump, i'm pretty sure its from the 90s. Works well, but has huge recoil(?) when you activate the mechanism - also, it randomly coughs out flakes of dried solder. It looks to me like the pump is too big for the job. I'm considering getting one of those solder suckers with a silicone tip.

Any advice on how to get the job done with the tools at hand would be nice!

EDIT:

I used a 25W iron from a scandinavian big-box chain for carparts and stuff. Cheap and functional.
Then I bought a SEEED iron from Massdrop. Holy **** was there a difference! Night and day...

Not to mention the Seed is the size of a screwdriver while the 25W was the size of a huge wrench! Very highly recommended! Reaches 300C in seconds and is adjustable from 100 to 400 in 10s.

I second this. The SEEED iron is really impressive. Literally under 5 seconds to reach 300C. Size wise, slightly longer but comparable to a Pilot G2 pen.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sun, 01 November 2015, 23:37:56
The solder wick has been absolutely useless so far, but i'll try using some flux with it - saw that suggestion somewhere in this thread.

I'm pretty sure the solder wick is pretty good for the job. You should try with some additional flux, it should work flawlessly. Besides, please make sure you have a good one (Goot brand for example) with small size (1.5mm).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: myotherteeshirt on Mon, 02 November 2015, 00:25:09
I'm pretty sure the solder wick is pretty good for the job. You should try with some additional flux, it should work flawlessly. Besides, please make sure you have a good one (Goot brand for example) with small size (1.5mm).

Yeah, i did thought that too - i imagined that solder wick would, well, -wick- away the solder. As it is, it kind of just sits on the joint, not really doing anything except making me worry that i might damage the pcb.

This looks like the solder wick i have:
(http://www.adafruit.com/images/large/toolboxwick_LRG.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Mon, 02 November 2015, 03:31:54
Make sure you're using fresh wick every time. If you only cut of the very tip and restart an inch away the flux will already be gone. Cut off a few inches every time. If you look close, you can see the sheen of the flux where it hasn't... fluxed... yet...

Or yeah, add more flux.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Mon, 02 November 2015, 09:44:23
I'm pretty sure the solder wick is pretty good for the job. You should try with some additional flux, it should work flawlessly. Besides, please make sure you have a good one (Goot brand for example) with small size (1.5mm).

Yeah, i did thought that too - i imagined that solder wick would, well, -wick- away the solder. As it is, it kind of just sits on the joint, not really doing anything except making me worry that i might damage the pcb.

This looks like the solder wick i have:
Show Image
(http://www.adafruit.com/images/large/toolboxwick_LRG.jpg)



I'm not an expert, but I always add a generous amount of new solder to the joint, then reheat again, and suck it all up together.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: filphil on Mon, 02 November 2015, 10:25:05
Hi all,

I need some advice on desoldering 4 pin RGD LEDs. I created a new thread but i suppose this is the proper place to ask.

Whats happening now is i'm able to get the blob of solder on the pad out, but the solder that is in the hole stays and refuses to budge.

(Attachment Link)

I have some solder wick, a solder pump (pictured) and a seeed mini soldering iron with a bevel tip. The solder wick has been absolutely useless so far, but i'll try using some flux with it - saw that suggestion somewhere in this thread.

As for the solder pump, i'm pretty sure its from the 90s. Works well, but has huge recoil(?) when you activate the mechanism - also, it randomly coughs out flakes of dried solder. It looks to me like the pump is too big for the job. I'm considering getting one of those solder suckers with a silicone tip.

Any advice on how to get the job done with the tools at hand would be nice!

EDIT:

I used a 25W iron from a scandinavian big-box chain for carparts and stuff. Cheap and functional.
Then I bought a SEEED iron from Massdrop. Holy **** was there a difference! Night and day...

Not to mention the Seed is the size of a screwdriver while the 25W was the size of a huge wrench! Very highly recommended! Reaches 300C in seconds and is adjustable from 100 to 400 in 10s.

I second this. The SEEED iron is really impressive. Literally under 5 seconds to reach 300C. Size wise, slightly longer but comparable to a Pilot G2 pen.


My solder pump game used to be weak because I would heat the joint, remove soldering iron, and then try to hastily suck it up. 

Now I add solder if I need to, heat the joint, and while the soldering iron is in contact with the joint I suck up the solder right above the iron tip.  See if that helps you out as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Tue, 03 November 2015, 19:07:08
Yeah, i did thought that too - i imagined that solder wick would, well, -wick- away the solder. As it is, it kind of just sits on the joint, not really doing anything except making me worry that i might damage the pcb.
This looks like the solder wick i have:
Show Image
(http://www.adafruit.com/images/large/toolboxwick_LRG.jpg)


I think that one has 2.2mm (AB) wide. It is supposed for medium sized pads, something like Cherry MX switch legs. It could be used for desoldering smd led but if you choose the smaller like 0.8mm (0) or 1.5mm (AA), it would be even better and faster, even without adding more flux.
http://www.spirig.org/fileadmin/media/pdf/TP2LS00_desolderwick.pdf
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dohbot on Tue, 03 November 2015, 19:54:23
Hey friends, I would love to desolder my Cherry MX Reds and solder in my new zealios into my FC660M, but I have no idea how to solder, what I need to buy and if I would **** it up, any advice would be nice, also unless I need to solder in my HHKB's alternate controller that I have in the mail (soon), this will likely be my only project for a long time, so I wouldn't want to spend too much on everything, I checked the first post but almost all of the links seem to be broken, except for a 300$ desoldering pump which is out of my price range. Any help would be really appreciated, links to youtube videos and amazon would be great for the materials I need assuming I have nothing, like an antistatic work mat and a way to catch the smoke from the solder. I don't think I want to spend more than 100$ on this total, or maybe I should get someone else to do it, see if it is cheaper, also I'll ask a couple people if they have soldering irons I can use, I think one of my friends does but I am not sure if it is good and it also wouldn't have a desoldering pump, right? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: profet on Tue, 03 November 2015, 20:14:17
Hey friends, I would love to desolder my Cherry MX Reds and solder in my new zealios into my FC660M, but I have no idea how to solder, what I need to buy and if I would **** it up, any advice would be nice, also unless I need to solder in my HHKB's alternate controller that I have in the mail (soon), this will likely be my only project for a long time, so I wouldn't want to spend too much on everything, I checked the first post but almost all of the links seem to be broken, except for a 300$ desoldering pump which is out of my price range. Any help would be really appreciated, links to youtube videos and amazon would be great for the materials I need assuming I have nothing, like an antistatic work mat and a way to catch the smoke from the solder. I don't think I want to spend more than 100$ on this total, or maybe I should get someone else to do it, see if it is cheaper, also I'll ask a couple people if they have soldering irons I can use, I think one of my friends does but I am not sure if it is good and it also wouldn't have a desoldering pump, right? Thanks!

I may get some crap for saying the following:

If you're not going to do a ton of soldering, I recommend one of the Hakko clone soldering stations and some extra tips.

Something like this:  http://www.cmlsupply.com/aoyue-model-936-esd-safe-soldering-system/
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dohbot on Tue, 03 November 2015, 20:19:19
Hey friends, I would love to desolder my Cherry MX Reds and solder in my new zealios into my FC660M, but I have no idea how to solder, what I need to buy and if I would **** it up, any advice would be nice, also unless I need to solder in my HHKB's alternate controller that I have in the mail (soon), this will likely be my only project for a long time, so I wouldn't want to spend too much on everything, I checked the first post but almost all of the links seem to be broken, except for a 300$ desoldering pump which is out of my price range. Any help would be really appreciated, links to youtube videos and amazon would be great for the materials I need assuming I have nothing, like an antistatic work mat and a way to catch the smoke from the solder. I don't think I want to spend more than 100$ on this total, or maybe I should get someone else to do it, see if it is cheaper, also I'll ask a couple people if they have soldering irons I can use, I think one of my friends does but I am not sure if it is good and it also wouldn't have a desoldering pump, right? Thanks!

I may get some crap for saying the following:

If you're not going to do a ton of soldering, I recommend one of the Hakko clone soldering stations and some extra tips.

Something like this:  http://www.cmlsupply.com/aoyue-model-936-esd-safe-soldering-system/

I kinda like that, nice price and it looks nice, I would love to see what everyone else says because you said your gonna get a ton of crap for it, and I would like to know why, I do like it though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 06 November 2015, 11:32:43
A lot of people have a sense of elitism about things, whether it comes to Cherry clones, Hakko clones, or whatever else. Aoyues are good they just aren't the top-tier like Weller or Hakko stations are.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 06 November 2015, 11:37:06
A lot of people have a sense of elitism about things, whether it comes to Cherry clones, Hakko clones, or whatever else. Aoyues are good they just aren't the top-tier like Weller or Hakko stations are.
People tend to avoid the clones when it comes to soldering gear as it can be dangerous and make it easier to ruin a PCB or when the soldering gear breaks quickly it discourages people from even trying.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:07:25
Solder-noob here needing a little help! (Blame Zeal ;-) )

No matter what I do there's always a tiny bit of solder left holding the pins in. I've added more solder then sucked **90%** of it back off that right-arrow switch more times than I can count. The braid doesn't seem to do anything useful. I can see little spots of solder on it that its sucked up but there's always more left on the pin/pad. Can anybody see anything obvious that I'm doing wrong?

Also - I should be able to pull a single switch out of the plate after desoldering it, right? I mean, I don't have to desolder all of them before I start pulling them?

Thx
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Sat, 07 November 2015, 12:12:22
You're not doing anything wrong, desoldering is just a lot harder than soldering. Try adding some solder and then re-de-soldering........

Also, you should be able to pull out one at a time, yes.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: heedpantsnow on Sat, 07 November 2015, 13:28:43
Hey friends, I would love to desolder my Cherry MX Reds and solder in my new zealios into my FC660M, but I have no idea how to solder, what I need to buy and if I would **** it up, any advice would be nice, also unless I need to solder in my HHKB's alternate controller that I have in the mail (soon), this will likely be my only project for a long time, so I wouldn't want to spend too much on everything, I checked the first post but almost all of the links seem to be broken, except for a 300$ desoldering pump which is out of my price range. Any help would be really appreciated, links to youtube videos and amazon would be great for the materials I need assuming I have nothing, like an antistatic work mat and a way to catch the smoke from the solder. I don't think I want to spend more than 100$ on this total, or maybe I should get someone else to do it, see if it is cheaper, also I'll ask a couple people if they have soldering irons I can use, I think one of my friends does but I am not sure if it is good and it also wouldn't have a desoldering pump, right? Thanks!

I may get some crap for saying the following:

If you're not going to do a ton of soldering, I recommend one of the Hakko clone soldering stations and some extra tips.

Something like this:  http://www.cmlsupply.com/aoyue-model-936-esd-safe-soldering-system/


I haven't ever tried Hakko clones.  But I used a cheap iron for many years because I didn't do a ton of soldering.  Then I got a Hakko, and wish I had gotten it in the beginning.  Even though I didn't do much soldering, it would have made those times a ton easier.  Again, maybe the clones are "good enough", I don't know.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dohbot on Sat, 07 November 2015, 14:13:26

Hey friends, I would love to desolder my Cherry MX Reds and solder in my new zealios into my FC660M, but I have no idea how to solder, what I need to buy and if I would **** it up, any advice would be nice, also unless I need to solder in my HHKB's alternate controller that I have in the mail (soon), this will likely be my only project for a long time, so I wouldn't want to spend too much on everything, I checked the first post but almost all of the links seem to be broken, except for a 300$ desoldering pump which is out of my price range. Any help would be really appreciated, links to youtube videos and amazon would be great for the materials I need assuming I have nothing, like an antistatic work mat and a way to catch the smoke from the solder. I don't think I want to spend more than 100$ on this total, or maybe I should get someone else to do it, see if it is cheaper, also I'll ask a couple people if they have soldering irons I can use, I think one of my friends does but I am not sure if it is good and it also wouldn't have a desoldering pump, right? Thanks!

I may get some crap for saying the following:

If you're not going to do a ton of soldering, I recommend one of the Hakko clone soldering stations and some extra tips.

Something like this:  http://www.cmlsupply.com/aoyue-model-936-esd-safe-soldering-system/


I haven't ever tried Hakko clones.  But I used a cheap iron for many years because I didn't do a ton of soldering.  Then I got a Hakko, and wish I had gotten it in the beginning.  Even though I didn't do much soldering, it would have made those times a ton easier.  Again, maybe the clones are "good enough", I don't know.

Thanks for the help I'm trying to see which would be cheaper sending away a board 70 switches and two LEDs or buying the supplies and doing it myself, also I don't want to ruin my board so I'd be factoring that in too.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Mon, 09 November 2015, 13:06:08
Warning solder noobism incoming:  So I've soldered about 10-15 boards with an entry level iron.  It's not a good iron, but I've been too cheap to upgrade.  However last time I soldered I had trouble desoldering one switch since it was in a tight place and my desoldering gun couldn't properly reached it and so I soldered and desoldered quite a few times.  The iron I use runs really hot and in the process I managed to desolder loose the trace.  The trace is still there just loose in the air, and the switch doesn't work when I tried to ****mix solder it.   There are also burn marks all over the pcb's when I'm done soldering.  I reckon I'm using an iron which is too hot.  Thing is it's not possible to configure the heat.  I'm not really adamant on doing things like tinning the tip and rubbing it in a wet swamp between solder (don't really see the reason to do those two actually) but I do it sometimes.  So I  guess my question is, is it really recommended/required to use a solder iron with configurable temps?  This iron runs too hot I reckon, what would be the recommended heat for  soldering though? 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Mon, 09 November 2015, 17:12:09
You should tin your iron and clean it often on a damp sponge to keep the tip clean. It makes the solder flow way easier. To fix the broken switch, you can run a jumper wire to other switches' pins on the same trace. As for burning, you can use any heat, the key is not leaving the iron on the pad too long. If it is burning before the solder melts, you probably need to take better care of the tip. You don't have to use an adjustable temp iron but it makes jobs easier. I use a Hakko 888D and use 750°F for 60/40 and 850°F for lead-free (ROHS) solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: engicoder on Mon, 09 November 2015, 18:52:49
You're not doing anything wrong, desoldering is just a lot harder than soldering. Try adding some solder and then re-de-soldering........

Yes! If you touch a hot, tinned soldering iron tip to a solder joint and it doesn't liquefy quickly, add a little new solder while you are touching the joint. This will help the older solder to melt. Seems counter intuitive, but it works. Also, sometimes adding a little more solder makes it easier for a solder sucker to suck up the solder up completely.

Edit: when desoldering, adding 60/40 lead solder will help to desolder lead free joints.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ideus on Mon, 09 November 2015, 18:55:10
You're not doing anything wrong, desoldering is just a lot harder than soldering. Try adding some solder and then re-de-soldering........

Yes! If you touch hot, tinned soldering iron tip to a solder joint and it doesn't liquefy  quickly, add a little new solder while you are touching the joint. This will help the older solder to melt. Seems counter intuitive, but it works.


Nice tip, regarding the desoldering process, I wonder if one of those mixed pumps with irons could be of any help.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 10 November 2015, 08:12:07
You're not doing anything wrong, desoldering is just a lot harder than soldering. Try adding some solder and then re-de-soldering........

Yeah, I've been doing that, over and over, but I can never get the last little bit of solder out of the hole. Wondering if maybe my solder-sucker is a POS, or maybe I'm just too slow with it...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 10 November 2015, 08:39:22
Why would you be slow? Just hold the sucker over the iron. Press sucker, then remove iron.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 10 November 2015, 13:49:48
I guess I'm afraid of melting the plastic-looking tip of the solder sucker. Also, when having it in position at an angle while the iron is doing its thing, after removing the iron it takes me 500-3000ms to get the solder sucker to vertical without it slipping around and out of position.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Tue, 10 November 2015, 13:55:33
Why would you be slow? Just hold the sucker over the iron. Press sucker, then remove iron.

Wait, are you saying I should push the button on the soldersucker BEFORE getting the iron out of the way?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trees on Tue, 10 November 2015, 14:16:41
Why would you be slow? Just hold the sucker over the iron. Press sucker, then remove iron.

Wait, are you saying I should push the button on the soldersucker BEFORE getting the iron out of the way?

Yes, you dont even have to be right on top of the solder.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 10 November 2015, 14:38:31
Indeed. And the sucker tip will probably be fine. It should be able to handle 3-400C without problems. Although I recommend staying at the lower edge when soldering. Desoldering ironically sometimes requires higher temperatures, which sucks.

I frakking hate desoldering...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 10 November 2015, 22:25:51
Can anyone recommend a good wearable loupe to help with smd soldering?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 11 November 2015, 00:41:43
Why would you be slow? Just hold the sucker over the iron. Press sucker, then remove iron.

Wait, are you saying I should push the button on the soldersucker BEFORE getting the iron out of the way?

Yes, you dont even have to be right on top of the solder.

I've taken two cracks at desoldering this KC60 I've got off massdrop and it doesn't seem like I can desolder for ****

Everytime I try using the sucker theres always a bit left which is impossible to melt afterward due to the limited contact. plz halp
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 11 November 2015, 03:58:23
Can anyone recommend a good wearable loupe to help with smd soldering?
Not really wearable, but this is what I use: http://smile.amazon.com/Brightech-LightView-SuperBright-Magnifier-Adjustable/dp/B00UW2IRJ2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1447235839&sr=8-4
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: engicoder on Wed, 11 November 2015, 07:05:48
Can anyone recommend a good wearable loupe to help with smd soldering?

These work well for me.

http://amzn.com/B000BPWPRK

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61ebFDMQ2zL._SL1482_.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: myotherteeshirt on Sun, 15 November 2015, 12:44:10
Hi all,

I need some advice on desoldering 4 pin RGD LEDs. I created a new thread but i suppose this is the proper place to ask.

Whats happening now is i'm able to get the blob of solder on the pad out, but the solder that is in the hole stays and refuses to budge.

(Attachment Link)

I have some solder wick, a solder pump (pictured) and a seeed mini soldering iron with a bevel tip. The solder wick has been absolutely useless so far, but i'll try using some flux with it - saw that suggestion somewhere in this thread.

As for the solder pump, i'm pretty sure its from the 90s. Works well, but has huge recoil(?) when you activate the mechanism - also, it randomly coughs out flakes of dried solder. It looks to me like the pump is too big for the job. I'm considering getting one of those solder suckers with a silicone tip.

Any advice on how to get the job done with the tools at hand would be nice!

EDIT:

I used a 25W iron from a scandinavian big-box chain for carparts and stuff. Cheap and functional.
Then I bought a SEEED iron from Massdrop. Holy **** was there a difference! Night and day...

Not to mention the Seed is the size of a screwdriver while the 25W was the size of a huge wrench! Very highly recommended! Reaches 300C in seconds and is adjustable from 100 to 400 in 10s.

I second this. The SEEED iron is really impressive. Literally under 5 seconds to reach 300C. Size wise, slightly longer but comparable to a Pilot G2 pen.

Solder-noob here needing a little help! (Blame Zeal ;-) )

No matter what I do there's always a tiny bit of solder left holding the pins in. I've added more solder then sucked **90%** of it back off that right-arrow switch more times than I can count. The braid doesn't seem to do anything useful. I can see little spots of solder on it that its sucked up but there's always more left on the pin/pad. Can anybody see anything obvious that I'm doing wrong?

Also - I should be able to pull a single switch out of the plate after desoldering it, right? I mean, I don't have to desolder all of them before I start pulling them?

Thx

Hey guys, so i solved my problem - here's how i did it: hope this helps someone.

Received my Zealios on 29th Oct. Could not for the life of me desolder these darn 4 pin LEDs on a razer BW chroma.
(Attachment Link)

Bought flux, Wick, new solder, every damn thing,  didn't work..

Until now!
(Attachment Link)

I had to use this, and align it vertically or there'd be some solder left in the hole.
(Attachment Link)
Can't wait til I have time for the whole board!

EDIT: I also had to run my iron at 340C, instead of my usual 300C.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Sun, 15 November 2015, 13:00:26
Gettin mah Zeali-on!

[attach=1]

And they all work (so far)!!!!

[attach=2]

I AM A SOLDERING GOD!!!!

but that's enough for todays session  ;-)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Mon, 16 November 2015, 15:02:36
Gettin mah Zeali-on!

(Attachment Link)

And they all work (so far)!!!!

(Attachment Link)

I AM A SOLDERING GOD!!!!

but that's enough for todays session  ;-)



So when the contacts are desoldered and I'm pushing the switch bottom stalk-thingy out of the pcb, should I be able to do that by hand? I'm finding they're typically a bit stiff so I'm using the plastic handle of a screwdriver to push those babies out of the pcb. I'm worried it might damage the pcb, and I'm thinking maybe I just need to do a better job with the desoldering and they'd pop out more easily?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ideus on Mon, 16 November 2015, 17:05:04
Gettin mah Zeali-on!

(Attachment Link)

And they all work (so far)!!!!

(Attachment Link)

I AM A SOLDERING GOD!!!!

but that's enough for todays session  ;-)



So when the contacts are desoldered and I'm pushing the switch bottom stalk-thingy out of the pcb, should I be able to do that by hand? I'm finding they're typically a bit stiff so I'm using the plastic handle of a screwdriver to push those babies out of the pcb. I'm worried it might damage the pcb, and I'm thinking maybe I just need to do a better job with the desoldering and they'd pop out more easily?


There is a plastic tool to pull the switches off the PCB. I have seen one at GON's store I think.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Mon, 16 November 2015, 17:28:00
That looks a little dodgy...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CommonCurt on Mon, 16 November 2015, 17:49:39
The one GON sales is metal, and can scratch your plate if you're not careful.  I think it's basically just a chip puller.

I use plastic spudgers like this to remove my switches.
   http://ebay.com/itm/3X-Black-Nylon-Spudger-Set-iPod-iPhone-Cellphone-Opening-Pry-Repair-Tools-/161844840007?nav=SEARCH (http://m.ebay.com/itm/3X-Black-Nylon-Spudger-Set-iPod-iPhone-Cellphone-Opening-Pry-Repair-Tools-/161844840007?nav=SEARCH)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 16 November 2015, 18:05:38
The one GON sales is metal, and can scratch your plate if you're not careful.  I think it's basically just a chip puller.

I use plastic spudgers like this to remove my switches.
   http://ebay.com/itm/3X-Black-Nylon-Spudger-Set-iPod-iPhone-Cellphone-Opening-Pry-Repair-Tools-/161844840007?nav=SEARCH (http://m.ebay.com/itm/3X-Black-Nylon-Spudger-Set-iPod-iPhone-Cellphone-Opening-Pry-Repair-Tools-/161844840007?nav=SEARCH)

Yep the GON one is metal and sends chills down my spine every time I hear it touch the plate
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ideus on Mon, 16 November 2015, 18:07:45
The one GON sales is metal, and can scratch your plate if you're not careful.  I think it's basically just a chip puller.

I use plastic spudgers like this to remove my switches.
   http://ebay.com/itm/3X-Black-Nylon-Spudger-Set-iPod-iPhone-Cellphone-Opening-Pry-Repair-Tools-/161844840007?nav=SEARCH (http://m.ebay.com/itm/3X-Black-Nylon-Spudger-Set-iPod-iPhone-Cellphone-Opening-Pry-Repair-Tools-/161844840007?nav=SEARCH)

Yep the GON one is metal and sends chills down my spine every time I hear it touch the plate


The tips of the tool should be filed to eliminate sharp edges and to shortening the tip length. The firm grip it gets over the switch makes the extraction safe.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: myotherteeshirt on Mon, 16 November 2015, 19:47:39
Gettin mah Zeali-on!

(Attachment Link)

And they all work (so far)!!!!

(Attachment Link)

I AM A SOLDERING GOD!!!!

but that's enough for todays session  ;-)



So when the contacts are desoldered and I'm pushing the switch bottom stalk-thingy out of the pcb, should I be able to do that by hand? I'm finding they're typically a bit stiff so I'm using the plastic handle of a screwdriver to push those babies out of the pcb. I'm worried it might damage the pcb, and I'm thinking maybe I just need to do a better job with the desoldering and they'd pop out more easily?

I use a wooden chopstick. The thick end is bigger than the hole in the pcb, so I use that to pop the switch off the plate, and the thin end for further prodding if needed.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 17 November 2015, 14:13:28
I use a radioshack iron (entry level iron) and it has happened a few times that the trace will get soldered off when I'm soldering, is that because it's running too hot?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 17 November 2015, 14:22:09
Yes, but more likely you're doing it very wrong in addition.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 17 November 2015, 14:47:11
Yes, but more likely you're doing it very wrong in addition.

I really don't think I'm doing it wrong I do it just like in whitefiredragon's soldering video.  Don't really know how one would do it wrong either.  I've soldered 10-15 boards.  It's just that if I have my iron on the trace for like 3 seconds it has a possibility of being burned off, so it must be just that I use a too hot of an iron.  The iron doesn't allow any configurations to the heat it's just one setting and that's maximum heat. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 17 November 2015, 14:48:52
Why the hell do you have your iron on the trace for three seconds??
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Tue, 17 November 2015, 16:26:17
Why the hell do you have your iron on the trace for three seconds??

well most of the time its 1-2 secs but sometimes its 3 maybe, should be fine
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Wed, 18 November 2015, 06:56:03


For example here he has the soldering iron on the trace for like 10-20 seconds no problem.  He says "heat it up, the pad and the pin" and the pad being the trace. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 18 November 2015, 09:34:18
That's a 73 minute video. You want to be more specific?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Wed, 18 November 2015, 10:43:00
That's a 73 minute video. You want to be more specific?

It has a timestamp if you click it it will start at the part I'm talking about

Another question: what diameter solder sucker is recommended for cherry mx soldering?  I have a 3mm inner diameter solder sucker which has been fine (except it often doesn't suck everything up and I need to redo it, don't know if the high diameter is the problem, the solder sucker quality or my technique or a combination of all those) except for that one switch on my octagon where the working area is too small for the solder sucker.  I have the possibility of ,8mm 1mm & 1,5mm at the store I'm going to.  I'm also going to buy a soldering iron which lets me set the temp to 350°C (that's the ideal one right?), I think my iron has been running on about 400-420°C (It's 30w but it doesn't say the temperature on the specifications), that should fix my overheating problems right?  (I also have burn marks all over the pcb)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 18 November 2015, 10:45:21
340-370 seems to be the range most people select. I've soldered at 300 just fine, but for desoldering it should be a little hotter.

You're linking to a section where he's using a desoldering iron, not a soldering iron by the way. That changes things. I have no experience with those, so I can't really tell what the problem is if that's what you're using.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Wed, 18 November 2015, 11:16:59
340-370 seems to be the range most people select. I've soldered at 300 just fine, but for desoldering it should be a little hotter.

You're linking to a section where he's using a desoldering iron, not a soldering iron by the way. That changes things. I have no experience with those, so I can't really tell what the problem is if that's what you're using.

huh?  you are watching the 53:12 part right?  there he solders the switch into place with a soldering iron and solder, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: trees on Wed, 18 November 2015, 11:31:27
340-370 seems to be the range most people select. I've soldered at 300 just fine, but for desoldering it should be a little hotter.

You're linking to a section where he's using a desoldering iron, not a soldering iron by the way. That changes things. I have no experience with those, so I can't really tell what the problem is if that's what you're using.

huh?  you are watching the 53:12 part right?  there he solders the switch into place with a soldering iron and solder, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

He is using way too much heat for way too long @ 53:12
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 18 November 2015, 11:44:45
340-370 seems to be the range most people select. I've soldered at 300 just fine, but for desoldering it should be a little hotter.

You're linking to a section where he's using a desoldering iron, not a soldering iron by the way. That changes things. I have no experience with those, so I can't really tell what the problem is if that's what you're using.

huh?  you are watching the 53:12 part right?  there he solders the switch into place with a soldering iron and solder, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
No, when I click it I get the beginning of the video. I told you.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Sat, 21 November 2015, 12:10:44
Figured I would stick my question here rather then start a new thread....    I need a solder pump or "sucker" that at least for now will probably be used only one time.  I love to buy expensive well made tools, but I just can't seem to justify buying a super high quality piece of equipment.  I need to de-solder a defective Gateron key switch and replace it.

Can someone recommend something that will work well enough.  I purchased one very inexpensively and realzied it's not coming for a month.  I'm looking to spend $5- $15 dollars.  I found a few that quite lovely, but I can't justify spending 40 dollars or something.  All I have to go on are Amazon reviews.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zombimuncha on Sat, 21 November 2015, 12:50:15
I got a cheap one on amzn. Works great. Um... it's blue.

edit: here it is, altho this is amazon uk:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004QNRP1Y?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: senso on Wed, 23 December 2015, 08:20:53
Solder pumps are all sort of disposable, they wear down fast with the solder dust/bits inside them.
I recommend cleaning them after use, at my workplace I only have Ersa tools(probably over 200k € in soldering, IR, hot-air, heat beds, irons and a BGA rework station in my room), and well, I have a couple Ersa solder suckers/pumps, they cost about 20€, yes, they are a bit better than the 3€ ones, but not by much.
After 2-3 days of use I must disassemble it, clean all the solder, scrape the solder from the spring, remove the oring, clean it, lube it a bit(I use flux paste, have lots around and does its job), and every other week I need to stretch the spring.
The tip only melts with the iron set to 400ºC and when doing something like that damage to pcb is very likely to happen.

Almost all the solder wicks need flux, even brand names, the flux stays in them for so long that it dries, aplying just a bit of flux to the joint before puting the wick over the joint does wonders, when fighting with big 6-8 layers pcb's full of power planes, lots of flux, wick on top, then add a bit of solder, it increases the thermal conductivity of the iron a LOT.

For starters/newbies/not so rich people(like me), go for a 30Watts iron, the Hakko clones can be good, IF you spend 10€ to buy an original Hakko tip, a chisel tip wit 2-2.5mm wide is perfect for PTH and to solder almost all the SMD's out there, from 1206 to 0603, TQFP's,SOP's,SOIC's, even the QFN's with exposed pads are easy to do, when they have power planes and you did design the pcb, leave a 1.2 to 2mm via under it, then just apply flux, and feed solder, it will solder the power pad fine going that way and you wont even need hot air!

There are lots of tips and little tricks to solder the strangest components, just remenber, flux is your friend, from Mouser(and Digikey I assume), you can buy a 200-250MmL seringe of Flux from Multicore or some other name brand, go for organic no clean flux, they are less acidic so if a bit stays behind some component leg it doesn't kill the pcb, will just be a nice dust trap and it also doesn't eat your iron tip.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Wed, 23 December 2015, 14:46:58
A good tip can actually be more important than a good iron...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 21:20:59
What would you all recommend as the best desoldering station under $200? I'd prefer spending closer to $100 if possible.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Sat, 26 December 2015, 21:27:46
What would you all recommend as the best desoldering station under $200? I'd prefer spending closer to $100 if possible.

I'd actually love to know as well. I used a desoldering iron with a soldapult built in, but the chamber is limited and its of poor quality. Buying a larger Edsyn solder sucker works on a single go every time fwiw. I think the main reason people have difficulty with solder suckers is that they buy the smaller/cheaper kinds with smaller chambers.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 26 December 2015, 22:06:39
What would you all recommend as the best desoldering station under $200? I'd prefer spending closer to $100 if possible.

I'd actually love to know as well. I used a desoldering iron with a soldapult built in, but the chamber is limited and its of poor quality. Buying a larger Edsyn solder sucker works on a single go every time fwiw. I think the main reason people have difficulty with solder suckers is that they buy the smaller/cheaper kinds with smaller chambers.

I've bought suckers both expensive and cheap and they are always good for awhile until eventually they just start falling apart. Wick works well but I'm not very good at using it. I'd rather just get a nice desoldering station and stop messing about with buying a new pump every few weeks.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: filphil on Sat, 26 December 2015, 22:40:45
What would you all recommend as the best desoldering station under $200? I'd prefer spending closer to $100 if possible.

I'd actually love to know as well. I used a desoldering iron with a soldapult built in, but the chamber is limited and its of poor quality. Buying a larger Edsyn solder sucker works on a single go every time fwiw. I think the main reason people have difficulty with solder suckers is that they buy the smaller/cheaper kinds with smaller chambers.

I've bought suckers both expensive and cheap and they are always good for awhile until eventually they just start falling apart. Wick works well but I'm not very good at using it. I'd rather just get a nice desoldering station and stop messing about with buying a new pump every few weeks.

Yeah I sort of see them as a wear item.  I always clean mine after use and put a light amount of lube before putting it away. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: itzmeluigi on Sun, 27 December 2015, 01:00:41
What would you all recommend as the best desoldering station under $200? I'd prefer spending closer to $100 if possible.

I use a S-993A desoldering gun, its amazing and i would never want to desolder anything without it. The Hakko FR-300 will certainly be better quality but its $250, and new Hakko desoldering stations seem to be well upwards of $300.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-993A-110V-90W-Electric-Vacuum-Desoldering-Pump-Solder-Sucker-Gun-In-US-/251876278039

There is the CSI 474A, which is a rebranded Aoyue,(Hakko clone)
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/Compact_Desoldering_System.html (their ebay listing of it http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESD-Safe-Compact-Desoldering-Station-CSI474A-/381412876949)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AOYUE-474A-Desoldering-Station-70-W-110-V-/131575282254
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aoyue-474A-Digital-Desoldering-Station-/131493990376

Maybe try finding a used Hakko 470 or 471, theres a few up for bid on ebay.

It will probably be hard finding genuine Hakko or Weller in that price range unless someone is selling it used for a generous price.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sun, 17 January 2016, 01:01:01
Does anybody have experience with, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007IJVVY0/ref=s9_dcbhz_bw_d0_g469_i1_sh

It looks very tempting and the reviews seem rather good.

Edit: I'm looking for a good professional level rework station, something that will last me a long time and hold up well. I'm sure there is better hakkos but not sure what to look at, I'd be willing to spend a little more but not looking to drop anything like $600 or so.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: henz on Mon, 18 January 2016, 08:32:17
bought meslef a new station thiw weekend. A Weller WSD 81, with a WP 80 iron and WDH10t stand. Going to be in soldering heaven..

Cost a fortune though, but was getting tired of my weller soldering pen.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Mon, 18 January 2016, 19:01:42
I've bought suckers both expensive and cheap and they are always good for awhile until eventually they just start falling apart. Wick works well but I'm not very good at using it. I'd rather just get a nice desoldering station and stop messing about with buying a new pump every few weeks.
I think the desoldering station definitely will help us a lot in term of convenience and performance. But when it comes to dollar and cent, even on high quality desoldering station coming from Weller or PACE, their accessories will get messed and required to have replacement regularly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Mon, 18 January 2016, 19:07:36
Something isn't right if a Soldapult isn't working for you, they're cheap and they work great. I'm wondering if your temps are high enough for desoldering?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 18 January 2016, 22:41:08
Something isn't right if a Soldapult isn't working for you, they're cheap and they work great. I'm wondering if your temps are high enough for desoldering?

Problem I always had with the soldapult is that it would only partially remove solder even with tons on there
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Mon, 18 January 2016, 22:43:38
Something isn't right if a Soldapult isn't working for you, they're cheap and they work great. I'm wondering if your temps are high enough for desoldering?

Problem I always had with the soldapult is that it would only partially remove solder even with tons on there

Some are obviously better than others. If you have to go the soldapult route I recommend the SS-02, it has really nice build quality and has worked perfectly through multiple boards. I find it sucks up all the solder rather well if you have a good seal with the silicon tube at the end while the tip of your solder pen is keeping the solder flowing.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swimmingbird on Mon, 18 January 2016, 23:01:58
Something isn't right if a Soldapult isn't working for you, they're cheap and they work great. I'm wondering if your temps are high enough for desoldering?

Problem I always had with the soldapult is that it would only partially remove solder even with tons on there

Some are obviously better than others. If you have to go the soldapult route I recommend the SS-02, it has really nice build quality and has worked perfectly through multiple boards. I find it sucks up all the solder rather well if you have a good seal with the silicon tube at the end while the tip of your solder pen is keeping the solder flowing.

Yeah to be fair my experience extends to the one included for free with my FX888D so probably not the best
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Tue, 19 January 2016, 01:43:31
It's getting a proper seal while the solder is still flowing that's the problem. This is the big draw of desoldering guns or the like...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: wockytocky on Wed, 20 January 2016, 13:57:28
Something isn't right if a Soldapult isn't working for you, they're cheap and they work great. I'm wondering if your temps are high enough for desoldering?

Problem I always had with the soldapult is that it would only partially remove solder even with tons on there

Some are obviously better than others. If you have to go the soldapult route I recommend the SS-02, it has really nice build quality and has worked perfectly through multiple boards. I find it sucks up all the solder rather well if you have a good seal with the silicon tube at the end while the tip of your solder pen is keeping the solder flowing.

Recently ordered that exact one after hearing so many great things about it. I'm hoping it works as well as people say it does because I really don't want to have to buy a desoldering gun, tempting as they sound...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: digi on Wed, 20 January 2016, 14:18:48
If you're using a fixed temp soldering iron, you should consider upgrading to a variable soldering iron like the Edsyn or Hakko before throwing money at a de-soldering gun, just my 2 cents. A chisel tips helps disperse the heat better than a standard tip too.

I like to turn the temp up on my iron when/if I de-solderer, it's quicker and I'm able to grab more solder (as long as the switch leads aren't bent, that's always fun)...and it's faster. :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Wed, 20 January 2016, 17:15:06
I have the FX-888D, it's not that suckers don't work, it's that they break too often and it makes my hand cramp after extended desoldering sessions.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Wed, 20 January 2016, 18:51:34
If you're having trouble with a Soldapullt, it may be that yours is a fake? I bought my DS-017 directly from Edson by phoning their customer service number listed on their website. Has never failed me, although it needs to be cleaned often.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swimmingbird on Wed, 20 January 2016, 20:15:09
If you're having trouble with a Soldapullt, it may be that yours is a fake? I bought my DS-017 directly from Edson by phoning their customer service number listed on their website. Has never failed me, although it needs to be cleaned often.

Yeah the one that came with mine was downright awful

The metal guide rod part actually fell through the plunger after an hours worth of use or so
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tofgerl on Thu, 21 January 2016, 01:49:16
I'm pretty happy with my random sucker from DealExtreme, but I would never imagine it to be among the best. That said, together with some desoldering braid, a HOT iron and cursing and repeating myself I get done what I need to get done.

The thing is, if you're going to get a desoldering gun, why not think about why you need to desolder stuff all the time first? Are you often making mistakes - how about thinking twice before you cut once?

Of course, if you're desoldering old boards for harvesting switches, that's different.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Thu, 21 January 2016, 07:29:21
I do more than just keyboard work, and for the keyboard work I am doing, a gun would be great as I do a lot of switch swapping and switch harvesting.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nmur on Sun, 24 January 2016, 06:52:59
I've got one of these (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_US_Warehouse_.html), and attempting soldering for the first time on it (and the first time for me in 5ish years).

The tip is very thin, and even on maximum heat, while the base of the tip heats up just fine, the end 2mm of the tip doesn't get very hot at all.

Is the tip damaged at all? it's the only one it came with and it's the first time I've used it too.

(http://i.imgur.com/ZAHNNVo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sun, 24 January 2016, 06:56:05
That's just a poor tip for high heat since it has very little surface area.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: henz on Sun, 24 January 2016, 06:56:30
I've got one of these (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_US_Warehouse_.html), and attempting soldering for the first time on it (and the first time for me in 5ish years).

The tip is very thin, and even on maximum heat, while the base of the tip heats up just fine, the end 2mm of the tip doesn't get very hot at all.

Is the tip damaged at all? it's the only one it came with and it's the first time I've used it too.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ZAHNNVo.jpg)


Can be the tip, do you have any other tip to try with?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nmur on Sun, 24 January 2016, 07:01:20
thx guys

That's just a poor tip for high heat since it has very little surface area.

yeah all the keyboard soldering videos I've seen don't use tips as thin as these. apparently it's compatible with tips like these (http://www.amazon.com/10pcs-Solder-Soldering-Hakko-Station/dp/B00GZGLQW4) so I'll try to pick some up

I've got one of these (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19240__Soldering_Station_with_Adjustable_Heat_Range_US_Warehouse_.html), and attempting soldering for the first time on it (and the first time for me in 5ish years).

The tip is very thin, and even on maximum heat, while the base of the tip heats up just fine, the end 2mm of the tip doesn't get very hot at all.

Is the tip damaged at all? it's the only one it came with and it's the first time I've used it too.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/ZAHNNVo.jpg)


Can be the tip, do you have any other tip to try with?


unfortunately that's the only tip it came with :/ and I don't have another to try it with
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gabba-gool on Tue, 26 January 2016, 10:17:44
Is there a GH recommended solder?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:01:17
Is there a GH recommended solder?

Check the OP for all the info you need.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: gabba-gool on Tue, 26 January 2016, 12:30:35
Is there a GH recommended solder?

Check the OP for all the info you need.

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dohbot on Tue, 26 January 2016, 16:56:51
What do I need to solder one switch? Is there a package of sorts that has a temperature controlled soldering iron and all the stuff that I need to clean it and not die? Also is there a solder spool with less in it that is recommended? Also I would like to practice before I do the real thing, so is there a kit that I could buy somewhere? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HTN47 on Tue, 26 January 2016, 22:54:02
Hey guys, I just started my first soldering project, so far it works but a few keys seem to be... Nonfunctional. Namely the 0 (zero), 1, esc, and space bar keys
I thought I did a pretty decent job but I guess not... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here are some pics of the keys. I apologize for the low quality pics, I only have an iPhone 6s to take pictures with.
Ps. This is a tx87 pcb if that helps.
Thanks in advance guys  :)

Edit: so, for some reason the page up, page down, end, home, delete, and insert keys are all off set also. When I press the insert key, it registers end instead, and home is page up, etc.
Maybe it's a controller problem? I'm so lost...  :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 27 January 2016, 05:57:54
Looks like you missed the diode on the 0 key.

The diode anode on the space bar looks like it might be a cold joint. I'd reflow solder on both pads of the diode for the 1, Esc and space.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HTN47 on Wed, 27 January 2016, 17:00:36
Looks like you missed the diode on the 0 key.

The diode anode on the space bar looks like it might be a cold joint. I'd reflow solder on both pads of the diode for the 1, Esc and space.

Thank you so much for your help  :)
That did the trick on all the keys, however my escape key still have issues....
I think I might have screwed up the pad when I was trying to add solder to the diode...
Here is a picture of me terrible mistake
Is there anyway I can "jump" the keys? Maybe use the diode from another key... I don't know... Just any way I can fix this I guess haha
Thanks for the help  :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: BaconEggandCheeseBagel on Wed, 27 January 2016, 18:13:50
So just a follow up to the question about a good desoldering station. After the previous comment, I bit the bullet and purchased the ESD Safe Compact Desoldering Station - CSI474A from ebay.

Came out to around ~ 100 USD. Can't sing its praises enough. Works perfect and makes desoldering a 60% board a 5-10 minute job tops.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Thu, 28 January 2016, 11:13:15
Looks like you missed the diode on the 0 key.

The diode anode on the space bar looks like it might be a cold joint. I'd reflow solder on both pads of the diode for the 1, Esc and space.

Thank you so much for your help  :)
That did the trick on all the keys, however my escape key still have issues....
I think I might have screwed up the pad when I was trying to add solder to the diode...
Here is a picture of me terrible mistake
Is there anyway I can "jump" the keys? Maybe use the diode from another key... I don't know... Just any way I can fix this I guess haha
Thanks for the help  :D


If you have indeed lifted the pad what you can do is wire the diode to the trace (Peel off some of the black mask) coming to the pad. The photos aren't very clear so it's hard to tell if the pad is damaged or see the trace coming to the pad (To suggest where to jumper the diode)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 29 January 2016, 14:11:48
Looks like I need to go through and update some of the soldering iron links, specifically for edsyn.  Also, I think they've stopped offering the budget special I had up so if we want to start a discussion here for the next day or so about budget level irons/stations until I get everything checked out again, I'd be up for that.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Fri, 29 January 2016, 14:21:30
Looks like I need to go through and update some of the soldering iron links, specifically for edsyn.  Also, I think they've stopped offering the budget special I had up so if we want to start a discussion here for the next day or so about budget level irons/stations until I get everything checked out again, I'd be up for that.

Not exactly what you asked, but with the number of boards coming out with SMD parts, I'd be interested in learning more about budget hot air solutions.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 29 January 2016, 21:38:59
Looks like I need to go through and update some of the soldering iron links, specifically for edsyn.  Also, I think they've stopped offering the budget special I had up so if we want to start a discussion here for the next day or so about budget level irons/stations until I get everything checked out again, I'd be up for that.

Not exactly what you asked, but with the number of boards coming out with SMD parts, I'd be interested in learning more about budget hot air solutions.

Let's add that to the discussion, too.  That said, I don't think hot air stations worth the money spent are really a hobbiest's tool.  I also wouldn't mind discussions on home brew smd setups like the toaster build the guy (sorry, bad with names) on DT did.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nhyrum on Sat, 30 January 2016, 08:47:05
FYI. The jewlers visor is gone from Amazon, all the esdyn links don't work and the eBay listing is old.

Anyway, good thread! I wish I remembered more from the electrical engineering class I took in college that went a great deal into soldering so I could add to this
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 30 January 2016, 10:50:28
I recently recommended the Aoyue 2703A+ to Steezus, as he wanted something with hot air and a desoldering pump. I believe that is the station WFD used for rework. Not exactly a "budget" solution, but it's in the same range as getting a Hakko FX-888D plus an FR300 for desoldering.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:02:54
I recently recommended the Aoyue 2703A+ to Steezus, as he wanted something with hot air and a desoldering pump. I believe that is the station WFD used for rework. Not exactly a "budget" solution, but it's in the same range as getting a Hakko FX-888D plus an FR300 for desoldering.

I'm really liking it so far. :thumb:

The desoldering gun needs some lubrication when you first get it otherwise the chamber can get clogged. It's pretty good at desoldering however if somebody fills the pin hole up with solder and runs it all the way down then sometimes it doesn't suck it all up. That's just usually when I refill it with solder and use a hand pump to get the rest.

My favorite part is the soldering pen with the attached fume extractor, saves a lot of brain cells. ;)

I haven't got around to using the hot air gun yet but overall I like the system as a whole.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:08:47
The desoldering gun needs some lubrication when you first get it otherwise the chamber can get clogged. It's pretty good at desoldering however if somebody fills the pin hole up with solder and runs it all the way down then sometimes it doesn't suck it all up. That's just usually when I refill it with solder and use a hand pump to get the rest.

Got any suggestions for using the desoldering gun? I just bought the Aoyue station a few days ago.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 30 January 2016, 11:11:42
The desoldering gun needs some lubrication when you first get it otherwise the chamber can get clogged. It's pretty good at desoldering however if somebody fills the pin hole up with solder and runs it all the way down then sometimes it doesn't suck it all up. That's just usually when I refill it with solder and use a hand pump to get the rest.

Got any suggestions for using the desoldering gun? I just bought the Aoyue station a few days ago.

The box comes with some lubricant in the inside. I recommend opening up the the chamber and lubing up the spring type thing inside like Aoyue recommends. I normally like to use the medium size tip for desoldering and just try to be quick with liquefying and sucking up the solder. There really isn't any tricks I found yet. If the person did a good soldering job in the first place then it should be easy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: mashby on Sat, 30 January 2016, 13:44:29
I recently recommended the Aoyue 2703A+ to Steezus, as he wanted something with hot air and a desoldering pump. I believe that is the station WFD used for rework. Not exactly a "budget" solution, but it's in the same range as getting a Hakko FX-888D plus an FR300 for desoldering.

If I didn't already have a Hakko FX-888 and a Hakko808, then you're exactly right that this would be a great station. Unfortunately, I just want to add hot air to what I already have.

Anyone have any information about the toaster oven method?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sat, 30 January 2016, 19:19:58
DIY cheap toaster oven with thermocouple and simple Arduino controller works well to me. I was rather suspicious at the beggining but almost no problem with 0.8mm pitch TQFP(like ATMega32u4) and 1608metric chips so far, I'm very confident now. I use leaded solder paste, stencil from cheap fab.
But 0.5mm pitch TQFP tends to be always bridged with my current setup, maybe I need to learn about it further and improve stencil, solder paste apply and temperature profile. And I've not tried QFN package yet.

This is my humble toaster controller.
https://github.com/tmk/HeadlessReflowOven


As for hot air, I bought one of 858D variants, it is cheap but it works well enough for the price. I don't know how good high-end expensive hotairs are, though.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kalp1 on Thu, 11 February 2016, 09:27:32
Hello Soldiers !

I'm planning to build an Handwired planck and a 60% Custom with GON pcb. I've browsed some soldering stations available here in EU, and I've choosed two model that are near 100€.

One is a Hakko FX888D with digital regulation that comes with a FX-8801 with type B tip at 100€ (16€ ship)
And the other one is a Yihua 939D+ that comes with a 1 mm tip (no more description in this german amazon page) at 80€ (free ship)

Wich one should I choose ? Since the Hakko is a bit pricy, would it worth it over the Yihua.

TL;DR : Hakko FX888D vs Yihua 939d+

In advance: Thank you ! and Sorry for having poor english
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: lunas on Fri, 12 February 2016, 22:13:26
Looks like I need to go through and update some of the soldering iron links, specifically for edsyn.  Also, I think they've stopped offering the budget special I had up so if we want to start a discussion here for the next day or so about budget level irons/stations until I get everything checked out again, I'd be up for that.

Not exactly what you asked, but with the number of boards coming out with SMD parts, I'd be interested in learning more about budget hot air solutions.

I haven't tried it yet but I've seen youtube videos with people using solder paste and a heat gun like this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004TUCV/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687582&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00307B4P0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1X2PZE4CFYC7J29802RD) (Amazon). Seems cheaper and easier than a full toaster oven mod.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Ephemeral on Fri, 12 February 2016, 22:26:46
As someone who is new to the DIY aspect of this hobby, this is really helpful. Bookmarked, I have some buying to do.  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: henz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 01:44:25
Hello Soldiers !

I'm planning to build an Handwired planck and a 60% Custom with GON pcb. I've browsed some soldering stations available here in EU, and I've choosed two model that are near 100€.

One is a Hakko FX888D with digital regulation that comes with a FX-8801 with type B tip at 100€ (16€ ship)
And the other one is a Yihua 939D+ that comes with a 1 mm tip (no more description in this german amazon page) at 80€ (free ship)

Wich one should I choose ? Since the Hakko is a bit pricy, would it worth it over the Yihua.

TL;DR : Hakko FX888D vs Yihua 939d+

In advance: Thank you ! and Sorry for having poor english

I bought a nice Weller station, you should get something nice like a Weller, Metcal/OKI or ersa.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: lootbag on Sat, 13 February 2016, 03:56:28
I recently recommended the Aoyue 2703A+ to Steezus, as he wanted something with hot air and a desoldering pump. I believe that is the station WFD used for rework. Not exactly a "budget" solution, but it's in the same range as getting a Hakko FX-888D plus an FR300 for desoldering.

I'm really liking it so far. :thumb:

The desoldering gun needs some lubrication when you first get it otherwise the chamber can get clogged. It's pretty good at desoldering however if somebody fills the pin hole up with solder and runs it all the way down then sometimes it doesn't suck it all up. That's just usually when I refill it with solder and use a hand pump to get the rest.

My favorite part is the soldering pen with the attached fume extractor, saves a lot of brain cells. ;)

I haven't got around to using the hot air gun yet but overall I like the system as a whole.

My Hakko 888D is in Canada and I have no soldering iron here in Hong Kong.
Looking to pick up a budget oriented station with soldering and desoldering at the minimum.
Need an iron to assemble my incoming boards and desoldering gun to make modifications to my Duck Viper (possibly swapping all the LEDs, switches and replacing some resistors).

I found the 2703A+ locally but it is out of stock: http://toolboom.com/en/Lead-Free-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-AOYUE-2703A-plus.php (http://toolboom.com/en/Lead-Free-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-AOYUE-2703A-plus.php)
They recommended the 2702A+ which basically doesn't allow me to use multiple functions at the same time: http://toolboom.com/en/Lead-Free-Hot-Air-Soldering-Station-AOYUE-2702A-plus-220-V.php (http://toolboom.com/en/Lead-Free-Hot-Air-Soldering-Station-AOYUE-2702A-plus-220-V.php)
I need 220-240V.

But now I am leaning towards the 701A++: http://toolboom.com/en/Desoldering-Station-AOYUE-701A-plus-plus.php (http://toolboom.com/en/Desoldering-Station-AOYUE-701A-plus-plus.php)
Soldering iron and desoldering gun 2 in 1 and aiming to buy a hot air gun separately.
Reason is, I do not see myself using the hot air gun very much... unless I get serious about soldering/desoldering diodes and resistors.
Also, I think it is better to have the hot air gun on its own so I can use it in conjunction with soldering iron/desoldering gun.

so... 2702A+ or 701A++ (and add hot air gun separately)?

Or... just buy another FX-888D and this Goot desoldering gun: http://toolboom.com/en/Desoldering-Gun-Goot-TP-100.php (http://toolboom.com/en/Desoldering-Gun-Goot-TP-100.php)?
I think Goot is very reliable brand but not sure about acquiring replacement/consumable parts for the desoldering gun.
It looks very similar to the Hakko FR-300 too.

Any suggestions would be great!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Kalp1 on Sat, 13 February 2016, 05:17:45
Hello Soldiers !

I'm planning to build an Handwired planck and a 60% Custom with GON pcb. I've browsed some soldering stations available here in EU, and I've choosed two model that are near 100€.

One is a Hakko FX888D with digital regulation that comes with a FX-8801 with type B tip at 100€ (16€ ship)
And the other one is a Yihua 939D+ that comes with a 1 mm tip (no more description in this german amazon page) at 80€ (free ship)

Wich one should I choose ? Since the Hakko is a bit pricy, would it worth it over the Yihua.

TL;DR : Hakko FX888D vs Yihua 939d+

In advance: Thank you ! and Sorry for having poor english

I bought a nice Weller station, you should get something nice like a Weller, Metcal/OKI or ersa.
These stations are really too much expensive, surely they would suit my use, but I think they are a bit overkill.

Finally, i'll go for an unregulated solder by Antex.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 13 February 2016, 05:37:43
so... 2702A+ or 701A++ (and add hot air gun separately)?

I have the 701A++ and it is perfect for me. It has replaced my Hakko FX-888D since I don't really need two different digital stations. I've never had use for a hot air gun myself.

These stations are really too much expensive, surely they would suit my use, but I think they are a bit overkill.

Finally, i'll go for an unregulated solder by Antex.

I've learned by experience not to buy a cheap soldering iron. It will frustrate you to the point of not wanting to continue. Be willing to at least get a low-end Weller, Hakko, Metcal, Pace, or Aoyue. My Hakko FX-888D was great and I've never heard of Yihua so I'd get the Hakko myself. You will have a much easier time of finding replacement parts as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: lootbag on Sat, 13 February 2016, 07:05:04
so... 2702A+ or 701A++ (and add hot air gun separately)?

I have the 701A++ and it is perfect for me. It has replaced my Hakko FX-888D since I don't really need two different digital stations. I've never had use for a hot air gun myself.

Good to hear some positive feedback about the 701A++.
Almost certain that I will go with this option.
I'm used to Hakko but I doubt I can get a 888D and FR300 for anywhere near the price of the Aoyue.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:16:51
So this is a rather unconventional way to do it but I found that holding the board upside to desolder with a gun is much more effective. This way rather than gravity letting solder flow down the switch-pin hole it just flows downwards towards the gun and then 95% of the time I get all of the solder. After desoldering so many Poker 2s and Pok3rs, the factory tends to add a lot of solder to the point where it flows down the pin making it much harder to suck up. I hope that makes sense...

Edit: I don't really want to endorse it, it is more dangerous because some molten solder can drop down. Just don't have your hands directly underneath the switch that you're soldering. It's just something that I've found and will be doing myself.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: henz on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:31:40
So this is a rather unconventional way to do it but I found that holding the board upside to desolder with a gun is much more effective. This way rather than gravity letting solder flow down the switch-pin hole it just flows downwards towards the gun and then 95% of the time I get all of the solder. After desoldering so many Poker 2s and Pok3rs, the factory tends to add a lot of solder to the point where it flows down the pin making it much harder to suck up. I hope that makes sense...

Edit: I don't really want to endorse it, it is more dangerous because some molten solder can drop down. Just don't have your hands directly underneath the switch that you're soldering. It's just something that I've found and will be doing myself.

Lol I want to see that in action. What about getting solder I. Your eyes. Protective glasses? :p
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Steezus on Sat, 13 February 2016, 15:43:13
So this is a rather unconventional way to do it but I found that holding the board upside to desolder with a gun is much more effective. This way rather than gravity letting solder flow down the switch-pin hole it just flows downwards towards the gun and then 95% of the time I get all of the solder. After desoldering so many Poker 2s and Pok3rs, the factory tends to add a lot of solder to the point where it flows down the pin making it much harder to suck up. I hope that makes sense...

Edit: I don't really want to endorse it, it is more dangerous because some molten solder can drop down. Just don't have your hands directly underneath the switch that you're soldering. It's just something that I've found and will be doing myself.

Lol I want to see that in action. What about getting solder I. Your eyes. Protective glasses? :p

I hold it away from myself and make sure nothing flammable is underneath. Both my hands and eyes are safe from any danger. It honestly just saved me so much time desoldering, rather than fighting against gravity have it on your side. It can be a pain because you're holding up the board and going from underneath of it but I went through a Poker 2 fast enough that I didn't feel any strain in my arms.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 08 April 2016, 16:26:25
I keep soldering off my traces (is it called trace? the circle around the thing you solder).  I have a pretty cheapo around 40$ soldering iron.  I have it on 350C when desoldering.  I don't get what I'm doing wrong?  Maybe the iron is not accurate since it's a cheap one and it's running hotter?  Maybe it's because I have a cone tip but not a vertical tip?  I have the iron on the trace for a pretty long time like 3 seconds, which is bad I presume?  I just think that it needs 3 secs to melt all the stuff all the way around.  Maybe I takes fewer second secs if I have a proper tip?  A vertical tip if best for this kind of work right?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 08 April 2016, 19:52:03
Solder pads. Usually if you keep lifting them, the iron is too hot or you are leaving it on too long. 350°C is plenty for lead/tin solder, 400C is usually good for lead free. Place the iron on just long enough for it to fully melt (you will see it melt).
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Sat, 09 April 2016, 17:02:59
I lowered the iron to about 325 and it hasn't happened since.

So now I have this lifted pad. 

(http://i.imgur.com/6SD8MeH.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/YfaI2Xx.png)

See where I've drawn the yellow line?  That's the pads I thought I needed to connect, but it's not working. The pad seems to be ruined on both sides of the pcb. Please help :(
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Sun, 10 April 2016, 10:01:22
I found the solution.  The solution was to connect it to D58.  Don't know why since I don't really understandr PCB's, I got some help on the Geekhack mIRc channel.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: joey on Sun, 10 April 2016, 10:02:56
That was me that helped!

Basically that connection is messed up, so you can short circuit it by connecting the leg of the switch to the leg of another switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 10 April 2016, 10:49:49
Nicely done!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ashraf on Fri, 15 April 2016, 23:35:13
(http://i.imgur.com/tKsJSfa.jpg)

Oh god, I need help fixing my ****ups with this KUL board.  Desoldered (made a mess of it though) and soldered in new Purple Zealios.  Every switch worked except W, 9 and +.  Desoldered those and replaced with switches I know worked, and it's still a no-go :(  Even lifted the lower right solder pad on W :(

I've uploaded some photos here: http://imgur.com/a/QbICj

Any advice?  I'm at my wit's end.  It seems like I'll have to do a wire trace, but i'm not knowledgeable enough to know where I shoulder connect the non-working ones to (especially the pads that don't seem to have a trace)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 16 April 2016, 07:34:24
Using wires is easy. It's just a matter of connecting the ungrounded lead from a working switch and soldering onto the ungrounded lead of a non working switch. Typically this is the left pin on Alps switches, I imagine MX is probably the same.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: phoenix1234 on Sat, 16 April 2016, 09:47:38
Any advice?  I'm at my wit's end.  It seems like I'll have to do a wire trace, but i'm not knowledgeable enough to know where I shoulder connect the non-working ones to (especially the pads that don't seem to have a trace)

First, please try to use a Digital multi-meter (DMM) to trace if there is any broken links on these 9,+ and W.
If any, you can use small wire to rebuild the broken ones.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: lootbag on Sat, 16 April 2016, 21:03:28
So this is a rather unconventional way to do it but I found that holding the board upside to desolder with a gun is much more effective. This way rather than gravity letting solder flow down the switch-pin hole it just flows downwards towards the gun and then 95% of the time I get all of the solder. After desoldering so many Poker 2s and Pok3rs, the factory tends to add a lot of solder to the point where it flows down the pin making it much harder to suck up. I hope that makes sense...

Edit: I don't really want to endorse it, it is more dangerous because some molten solder can drop down. Just don't have your hands directly underneath the switch that you're soldering. It's just something that I've found and will be doing myself.

I started using this upside down method with the Aoyue desoldering gun, works very well haha.
Maybe the I need to get to the pump, disassemble and reseal during reassembly to increase the vacuum of the unit.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Badwrench on Sun, 24 April 2016, 13:24:12
Quick confirmation guys.  When soldering RGB leds, the orientation on the pcb is denoted by the diagonal line, right?

The little diagonal notch in the smd led is the same corner as the diagonal line?

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sun, 24 April 2016, 13:34:09
That's correct.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Badwrench on Sun, 24 April 2016, 13:56:48
That's correct.

Cool.  Just wanted to make sure.  SMD stuff is hard to desolder without hot air. 
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 29 April 2016, 15:30:47
I just bought myself a Weller WES51.  I got these tips with it I was wondering which one would be best for soldering switches (I'm concerned about heat since I'm soldering zealios)?  Also what is this thing which I got with the station?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Fri, 29 April 2016, 15:35:38
Chisel tip is best for medium size solder points like keyboard switches. Use conical for smaller solder points and the huge ones for really big solder points.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 29 April 2016, 16:45:45
I just bought myself a Weller WES51.  I got these tips with it I was wondering which one would be best for soldering switches (I'm concerned about heat since I'm soldering zealios)?  Also what is this thing which I got with the station?
I do believe that 'thing' is a wrench to swap the tips out.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: asgeirtj on Fri, 29 April 2016, 17:35:49
Chisel tip is best for medium size solder points like keyboard switches. Use conical for smaller solder points and the huge ones for really big solder points.

These are all chisel tip if I'm not mistaken.  Just wondering if anyone had a recommendation which mm tip would be ideal
I just bought myself a Weller WES51.  I got these tips with it I was wondering which one would be best for soldering switches (I'm concerned about heat since I'm soldering zealios)?  Also what is this thing which I got with the station?
I do believe that 'thing' is a wrench to swap the tips out.

One swaps the tips out by unscrewing the tip so I don't think so
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: SpAmRaY on Fri, 29 April 2016, 18:18:54
I do believe that 'thing' is a wrench to swap the tips out.

One swaps the tips out by unscrewing the tip so I don't think so

Quote
 The pencil magnet (or any magnet) can be used for two purposes on this iron: locking the temperature and changing the units between F/C. To lock the temperature, just tap the ESD SAFE logo with a magnet while the station is on. A little dot will light up under the Lockout label to show this. To turn off, just tap the ESD SAFE logo again. To change the units: power off the station, turn the temperature knob all the way to maximum, hold the magnet over the ESD SAFE logo, then turn the station on. The F/C dot should toggle

I should have looked on amazon to being with. :D
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zennasyndroxx on Sat, 30 April 2016, 07:05:38
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tKsJSfa.jpg)


Oh god, I need help fixing my ****ups with this KUL board.  Desoldered (made a mess of it though) and soldered in new Purple Zealios.  Every switch worked except W, 9 and +.  Desoldered those and replaced with switches I know worked, and it's still a no-go :(  Even lifted the lower right solder pad on W :(

I've uploaded some photos here: http://imgur.com/a/QbICj

Any advice?  I'm at my wit's end.  It seems like I'll have to do a wire trace, but i'm not knowledgeable enough to know where I shoulder connect the non-working ones to (especially the pads that don't seem to have a trace)

are you the same dude that contacted me at reddit?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: izilla on Tue, 03 May 2016, 08:14:27
Awesome resource for soldering stuff....some links are dead now maybe an update on the OP.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ashraf on Sun, 08 May 2016, 11:44:06
Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/tKsJSfa.jpg)


Oh god, I need help fixing my ****ups with this KUL board.  Desoldered (made a mess of it though) and soldered in new Purple Zealios.  Every switch worked except W, 9 and +.  Desoldered those and replaced with switches I know worked, and it's still a no-go :(  Even lifted the lower right solder pad on W :(

I've uploaded some photos here: http://imgur.com/a/QbICj

Any advice?  I'm at my wit's end.  It seems like I'll have to do a wire trace, but i'm not knowledgeable enough to know where I shoulder connect the non-working ones to (especially the pads that don't seem to have a trace)

are you the same dude that contacted me at reddit?

Yup, managed to fix it anyway through trial and error :P
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Jeu on Sun, 05 June 2016, 23:25:53
Newbie here getting materials to build my first board!  Is something like the Weller WLC100 sufficient for soldering switches and LEDs etc or should I pony up and get the WES51 or the Hakko FX888?  I don't wanna risk a super cheapy $20 iron and have some switches be cold.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: izilla on Tue, 07 June 2016, 23:31:25
Newbie here getting materials to build my first board!  Is something like the Weller WLC100 sufficient for soldering switches and LEDs etc or should I pony up and get the WES51 or the Hakko FX888?  I don't wanna risk a super cheapy $20 iron and have some switches be cold.

A Hakko is going to last you a long time where the weller is only going to frustrate you. I started with a weller that was cheap and once I bought my Hakko it was like soldering was the easiest thing I have ever done. But it does come down to the tip you use, I highly recommend waatching the EEVBlog soldering tips that literally brought my soldering to a whole new level where it is second nature now.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: appleonama on Tue, 07 June 2016, 23:33:55
I lowered the iron to about 325 and it hasn't happened since.

So now I have this lifted pad. 

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6SD8MeH.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/YfaI2Xx.png)


See where I've drawn the yellow line?  That's the pads I thought I needed to connect, but it's not working. The pad seems to be ruined on both sides of the pcb. Please help :(

too much gore. I threw up
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: izilla on Tue, 07 June 2016, 23:49:34
I lowered the iron to about 325 and it hasn't happened since.

So now I have this lifted pad. 

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/6SD8MeH.jpg)


Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/YfaI2Xx.png)


See where I've drawn the yellow line?  That's the pads I thought I needed to connect, but it's not working. The pad seems to be ruined on both sides of the pcb. Please help :(

I would suggest using a multimeter with a continuity tester to ensure your suspicions on the traces are correct.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Skydra on Sat, 11 June 2016, 00:38:37
I got a simple question. What is the different between cherry plate-mounted and pcb-mounted stabilizers? I'm planning to build a board with plate-mounted switch.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Blaise170 on Sat, 11 June 2016, 00:47:49
I got a simple question. What is the different between cherry plate-mounted and pcb-mounted stabilizers? I'm planning to build a board with plate-mounted switch.

Exactly as it says on the tin. Plate mounted are attached to the plate, PCB mounted are attached to the PCB. You'll use plate mount if you use a plate.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 11 June 2016, 00:57:45
Depends on the plate, many plates only support PCB-mount stabs.

P.S Neither of them are soldered, mention this because this is being posted in the soldering thread.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Skydra on Sat, 11 June 2016, 01:02:15
Depends on the plate, many plates only support PCB-mount stabs.

P.S Neither of them are soldered, mention this because this is being posted in the soldering thread.

Ah sorry if I'm posting my question on the wrong thread. This is gonna be my first build so I'm still clueless about things. I'm going to go ahead and ask the seller which stabilizers I should be getting then. Because that's my concern, I will be using plate but I see a lot of build insert in the stabilizers first before the plate, so I'm assuming that even if you use a plate, you can still use pcb-mount stabs.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: MOZ on Sat, 11 June 2016, 01:31:56
What stabilizers are compatible with a setup depends on the cutouts in the plate and the PCB design. Which PCB and plate are you planning on using?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Skydra on Sat, 11 June 2016, 01:43:22
What stabilizers are compatible with a setup depends on the cutouts in the plate and the PCB design. Which PCB and plate are you planning on using?

I'm planning to use GON PCB and JDCarpe Universal60 Plate, both sold by LeandreN. After googling around, I believe PCB-mounted stabilizers are what I should buy for this right? Thanks for helping btw.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: swimmingbird on Tue, 14 June 2016, 02:19:07
What stabilizers are compatible with a setup depends on the cutouts in the plate and the PCB design. Which PCB and plate are you planning on using?

I'm planning to use GON PCB and JDCarpe Universal60 Plate, both sold by LeandreN. After googling around, I believe PCB-mounted stabilizers are what I should buy for this right? Thanks for helping btw.

Yep PCB mounted stabs are the norm for DIY and custom builds
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Jin on Thu, 30 June 2016, 20:51:44
awsome thing to know
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: twiddle on Mon, 08 August 2016, 17:35:27
So I've been working on more custom controllers for the classes at work recently, and I just finished one of the most recent prototypes:
(http://i.imgur.com/iuCj4xS.jpg)

However, my iron is really struggling to get enough heat into joints between pins and large ground planes, like the ones outlined in red (brown marks are flux before cleaning, not burns):

(http://i.imgur.com/3S8BfAe.jpg)

I don't really want to turn my iron up further, until I get a chance to calibrate it (got an IR thermometer on the way to do just that). It's currently sitting about 365C, but as I say I haven't yet verified that.
Presuming that my existing iron is correctly calibrated and there's not a lot I can do beyond just increasing the heat, I've been eyeing off the following metcal unit, a MX-500S that seems to have a reasonable price for the 240V version:
http://www.mektronics.com.au/soldering-rework/metcal-stations/metcal-mx-500s-soldering-rework-system-13434.html
I've heard that the Metcals have excellent thermal recovery, which I suspect is where my current iron is falling down.
Does anybody have experience with Metcal in general, or the model I've mentioned, or any other insight?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: garage_logician on Tue, 09 August 2016, 12:39:14
OK, so I have both a White Fox and an Ergo Dox on the way.  I have never assembled a keyboard before and am looking for some advice, specifically what kind of tip works best on the soldering iron (I have a Hakko) and what kind of solder I should use.   

Thanks!
-g
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: romevi on Tue, 09 August 2016, 12:41:16
Solder and Tip sounds like a good name for a keyboard-building newsletter. Or a bar devoted to mechanical keyboards.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: joey on Tue, 09 August 2016, 12:42:16
Any kind of tip works fine for switches.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nugglets on Tue, 09 August 2016, 13:42:10
Any kind of tip works fine for switches.

While absolutely true, I have a much better time with a chisel tip than the standard tips. I think the one I use is 1.6mm, but I don't remember exactly.

For solder, Kester 44 is what I have seen recommended most often and is what I use as well.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: garage_logician on Wed, 10 August 2016, 18:01:46
Where is a good place to get Hakko tips?  Also, what diameter solder?  .31?  .20?   

One other question, is there much difference in 63/37 versus 60/40?   

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Dwarlorf on Wed, 10 August 2016, 18:46:30
Solder one switch leg first before and make sure all switches are soldered straight unto the pcb before soldering the second legs. It's easier to correct the switches positions with only one leg attached.
Don't use too much tin.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: nugglets on Thu, 11 August 2016, 03:43:31
Where is a good place to get Hakko tips?  Also, what diameter solder?  .31?  .20?   

One other question, is there much difference in 63/37 versus 60/40?   

Thanks!

I have no idea where you're from, so no way to say for sure. =)

I get them at Fry's, locally, or Amazon.

63/37 v. 60/40 is negligible, but the reasoning behind 63/37 is that it goes from liquid to solid more quickly. Whether that actually matters or not, I couldn't say. My soldering experience is limited to whatever they had at work 20 years ago, and the 63/37 I bought when I built my first keyboard a few months ago. Maybe someone else will chime in with a compelling reason to pick one over the other, but I doubt it's going to make a huge difference at all.

Same really goes for the diameter. I use .31 because I figured it would be easier to flow it more quickly, and speed was my goal with the Zealios I was soldering. Plenty of people seem to use .20, and I could certainly see the smaller diameter being preferable for SMD soldering. But, again, I doubt either one is going to make a huge difference with the soldering involved in building a keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jaffers on Thu, 11 August 2016, 04:48:23
Get chisel tips or tips with large surface area on the front. Use a horse shoe tip for SMD's. Small tips are almost useless for most practical applications, heat dissipates too quickly and you end up with a cold tip, you will be there for ages.

Get some solder with multicore rosin, I swear by 63/37. Get it pretty thin, the thinner the better, significantly more control over how big your joints are. You can always put more on, but taking it off is a pain in the behind. You can go with some no name chinese brand but often the rosin isn't very good. Perhaps get a flux pen as well to help if a joint doesn't want to wick properly.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 11 August 2016, 05:59:00
Get chisel tips or tips with large surface area on the front. Use a horse shoe tip for SMD's. Small tips are almost useless for most practical applications, heat dissipates too quickly and you end up with a cold tip, you will be there for ages.

Get some solder with multicore rosin, I swear by 63/37. Get it pretty thin, the thinner the better, significantly more control over how big your joints are. You can always put more on, but taking it off is a pain in the behind. You can go with some no name chinese brand but often the rosin isn't very good. Perhaps get a flux pen as well to help if a joint doesn't want to wick properly.




For SMD you want thin..

But for switches,  you don't want too thin,  because it's SLOWER to solder, you have to push it much faster.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Aricil on Thu, 11 August 2016, 12:35:26
I'll just piggyback on this thread. I'd like to build my first keyboard soon, as well as possibly switch out a few switches (hehe) on my Varmilo since a few of them are acting kinda wonky. So, what's your recommendation for a soldering iron? I saw one for 40 bucks, then I saw some of the other more recommended ones in the 100 dollar range. If I was only going to be using it occasionally, would it be okay to get a cheaper one? And do you have any ideas for some keyboards I could build by myself? I saw some on massdrop but they've already come and gone. I was wondering if there were some I could just buy without a groupbuy.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: eksuen on Thu, 11 August 2016, 13:00:48
I'll just piggyback on this thread. I'd like to build my first keyboard soon, as well as possibly switch out a few switches (hehe) on my Varmilo since a few of them are acting kinda wonky. So, what's your recommendation for a soldering iron? I saw one for 40 bucks, then I saw some of the other more recommended ones in the 100 dollar range. If I was only going to be using it occasionally, would it be okay to get a cheaper one? And do you have any ideas for some keyboards I could build by myself? I saw some on massdrop but they've already come and gone. I was wondering if there were some I could just buy without a groupbuy.

If it's only for the occasional use (assembling a keyboard here and there), a cheaper one is fine.

I have something like this http://www.parts-express.com/stahl-tools-ssvt-variable-temperature-soldering-iron-station--374-100?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla (http://www.parts-express.com/stahl-tools-ssvt-variable-temperature-soldering-iron-station--374-100?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla)
I've used it to assemble a B.Face (67g Zealios), WhiteFox (67g Zealios), Infinity (Matias QC), and an Octagon V2 (67g Zealios) without any issues. No chattering on any Zealios switches either, for the record.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jdcarpe on Thu, 11 August 2016, 13:21:44
Thread merged with The Living Soldering Thread :)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: captsis on Tue, 20 September 2016, 02:33:29
So ive been using the Kester .20 60/40 and one thing I really had a hard time with was not bending the wire while I was holding it to a joint. So frustrating but I guess I need a lighter touch...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: dante on Tue, 27 December 2016, 21:08:38
Have any of you run into addiction issues with soldering?  You enjoy it so much that you get a little excited when something breaks or someone asks you solder a board for them?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 28 December 2016, 10:17:21
Have any of you run into addiction issues with soldering?  You enjoy it so much that you get a little excited when something breaks or someone asks you solder a board for them?

I've certainly used solder when software would be less invasive, yes.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: fublamchu on Sun, 01 January 2017, 00:14:52
For those with the Weller WLC100, what heat setting do you guys use for soldering switches?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: ReadmeDotTxt on Sun, 01 January 2017, 05:00:50

Desoldering -
Edsyn soldapullt III - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=DS017 OR
Universal soldapullt - http://www.edsyn.com/index.php?Mode=piw&pn=US140


The links to the desoldering tools looks like they have changed. A quick search yielded the links below.

Edsyn Soldapullt III - http://www.edsyn.com/product/PT109.html
Edsyn Universal Soldapullt - http://www.edsyn.com/product/US140.html
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Tactile on Sun, 01 January 2017, 11:32:36
If anyone is interested in buying a temp controlled soldering station I just posted this in "Great Finds"...

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=86691.0
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: FLOCKA on Mon, 02 January 2017, 13:23:57
So I see that Kester 44 is most commonly recommended, but I'm curious about Kester 245 (the no-clean variant). Should I stick with the tried-and-true, or is 245 equally as good? I want to avoid leaving unsightly brown puddles of flux behind, so that would be my rationale for choosing it over 44 -- have I got that wrong?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: pineapple on Mon, 02 January 2017, 17:53:55
As a suggestion, I would use this over the standard helping hands.

just put some electrical tape over the alligator clips and you're gucci.  :thumb:

http://a.co/dqmmSTH
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 03 January 2017, 10:22:49
As a suggestion, I would use this over the standard helping hands.

just put some electrical tape over the alligator clips and you're gucci.  :thumb:

http://a.co/dqmmSTH

Thanks!  That looks nice, and it cannot be any crappier than the normal freestanding helpers.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
Auto-typed by my GH-122 keyboard.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Rob27shred on Sat, 04 March 2017, 10:03:00
I finally took the plunge & ordered a Hakko FX888D-23BY solder station. I also ordered a LyonsBlue desoldering pump, a 4oz roll of Alpha Fry .032 diameter 60/40 rosin core solder, &  a roll of NTE Electronics SW02-10 No-Clean Solder Wick, #4 Blue, .098" Width, 10' Length. Which will hopefully be enough for me to get some practice in & do my 1st project. I should mention I am not a complete noob with soldering. I took an electronics course for vo-tech when I was in HS but that was about 20 yrs ago & I also have a good amount of experience with soldering copper plumbing (I know it really doesn't relate to soldering on PCBs, LOL!).

I have an old fried Intel mobo from when I replaced it in my uncle's PC that I plan on using for practice to get the feel of soldering & desoldering on PCBs again. Then my 1st planned project is to harvest the Gat greens from a MF68 & use them to swap out the Cherry blues on a KBP V60 I have. They both have LEDs that I will need to swap as well since the LEDS are on the top of the switches on the MF68 & the bottom of the switches on the V60. Also the MF68 just has plain white LEDs while the V60 has LEDs that do blue & red.

Any advice you guys think I should know before taking on this project? I believe I have all the right equipment & materials except for extra wire for jumping connections in case I blow a pad out. What type of & gauge wire do you guys use in such a situation? Any & all advice on technique, equipment, etc. is greatly appreciated! :) In the mean time I am gonna dive into this thread & others I have found about soldering to absorb as much tips & tricks as I can before my equipment arrives. :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: captain on Tue, 04 April 2017, 20:03:25
Has anyone compared the build-it-yourself version of WhiteFox to the pre-built?  I'm finding that the pre-builts are really really badly put together.  Each switch reacts differently and several keys BIND or SCRAPE on every WhiteFox that I've tried.  :-/   I'm about 10% interested in trying the build it yourself if it's having no QA problems, but may just give up on WhiteFox.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: zylinderhut on Mon, 29 May 2017, 09:07:18
Hi,

to add on what readmedottxt already mentioned, below are the updated links fot all Edsyn items:

http://www.edsyn.com/product/CL1481-K1.html - $93.50
http://www.edsyn.com/product/951SX.html - $168.50
http://www.edsyn.com/product/PT109.html - $16.80
http://www.edsyn.com/product/US140.html - $10.64
http://www.edsyn.com/product/2020.html - $466.20

Thanks for the list and this thread!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jcoffin1981 on Tue, 18 July 2017, 20:21:13
Just wanted to update that I received my new multimeter today, and I my impressions from it are largely positive.  Would definitely recommend at that price.  It has good reviews too in terms of accuracy (some meters have good reviews and then a bunch of bad ones because they die fairly quickly for some reason--haven't seen anything bad for this one).  Just tested every resistor I've installed on a board as well as some other parameters, like continuity resistance through LED holes.

(Attachment Link)

Great for $20 or you can sometimes find it for less, like I did.


I   have the Identical multimeter.  I'm happy with it, but it reads high.  A 120V wall outlet usually reads at about 124V.  A button battery of 1.5V reads about 1.56V.  Works fine but you get what  you pay for.  Buying a Fluke meter does not really have any value for me.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: bpiphany on Thu, 20 July 2017, 13:35:57
I   have the Identical multimeter.  I'm happy with it, but it reads high.  A 120V wall outlet usually reads at about 124V.  A button battery of 1.5V reads about 1.56V.  Works fine but you get what  you pay for.  Buying a Fluke meter does not really have any value for me.

Without dismissing that he meter could be out, you really Really need to find some better references than that...
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Tue, 05 September 2017, 07:00:18
Hi, having a soldering issue, am quite the noob @ it:

Finally assembled Mech27 using TGR Jane PCB --> realized "Q" wasn't working --> resoldered thinking it was a cold joint --> still didn't work --> used my eyeballs and saw this:

(https://i.imgur.com/XG1c4up.jpg)

Is that a missing a missing diode? (pink circle, duh-- orange circles were to show someone else the difference :> )

What can I do to remedy this? Replacements are most likely out of the question because its been so long after the gb, I probably should have checked to see if they were all there, blah.

If I can solder in the missing thingie -- Where can I can one, and any guides to soldering in a diode would be great --

thank you kind ppls  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 05 September 2017, 07:19:13
If I can solder in the missing thingie -- Where can I can one, and any guides to soldering in a diode would be great --
By the look of the T4 tag on the top of the other diodes, it could easily be a 1N4148WS in a SOD323 package. A large number of manufacturers make these diodes, such NXP and BL Galaxy Electrical. You can source some on eBay.

To solder it, wet one pad with solder, reflow, put the diode in place with tweezers and take the soldering iron away while holding the diode in place. Then do the other end. Diodes are polarized so double check the orientation.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: CommonCurt on Tue, 05 September 2017, 08:20:44
Hi, having a soldering issue, am quite the noob @ it:

Finally assembled Mech27 using TGR Jane PCB --> realized "Q" wasn't working --> resoldered thinking it was a cold joint --> still didn't work --> used my eyeballs and saw this:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/XG1c4up.jpg)


Is that a missing a missing diode? (pink circle, duh-- orange circles were to show someone else the difference :> )

What can I do to remedy this? Replacements are most likely out of the question because its been so long after the gb, I probably should have checked to see if they were all there, blah.

If I can solder in the missing thingie -- Where can I can one, and any guides to soldering in a diode would be great --

thank you kind ppls  :thumb:

I used WhiteFireDragon's tutorial the last time I tried to solder SMD diodes.

Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: KetchyKech on Tue, 05 September 2017, 08:24:18
Hi, having a soldering issue, am quite the noob @ it:

Finally assembled Mech27 using TGR Jane PCB --> realized "Q" wasn't working --> resoldered thinking it was a cold joint --> still didn't work --> used my eyeballs and saw this:

Show Image
(https://i.imgur.com/XG1c4up.jpg)


Is that a missing a missing diode? (pink circle, duh-- orange circles were to show someone else the difference :> )

What can I do to remedy this? Replacements are most likely out of the question because its been so long after the gb, I probably should have checked to see if they were all there, blah.

If I can solder in the missing thingie -- Where can I can one, and any guides to soldering in a diode would be great --

thank you kind ppls  :thumb:

I used WhiteFireDragon's tutorial the last time I tried to solder SMD diodes.


Awesome, many thanks fellas!
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 66klaus on Mon, 02 July 2018, 06:10:09
Hi,

I desoldered all switches of my Ducky Shine. Unfortunately on the other side of the PCB, I lifted some pads. Do I have problems with these, because of the other side (double layer pcb)? So, what to do?

As you can see in the pics, I have three problems with lifted pads on the not soldering side.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: vvp on Tue, 03 July 2018, 02:33:28
You have a problem. It is bad but not critical. You just need to make the same connections the lifted pads provided in an alternative way. E.g. a thin wire from the switch pin to the lifted trace at some place where it is not lifted any more. Just provide the connection. Make sure the connection is insulated from the thinks it is not supposed to connect (which the lifted pad/wire did not touch). Notice that the lfited pad was providing also a connection between the top a and bottom part of the PCB. If a pad is not connected to anything on one side of the PCB tan you do not need to bother with that side.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: TalkingTree on Tue, 03 July 2018, 02:34:35
So, what to do?
What I would do is to plug the board in and short the keys pads with tweezers or anything else conductive. See if the keys register correctly, if not, you can follow the trace and solder a jumper wire to the next adjacent pad. Know that some pads might need to be soldered to the corresponding diode.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: 66klaus on Thu, 05 July 2018, 01:16:53
You have a problem. It is bad but not critical. You just need to make the same connections the lifted pads provided in an alternative way. E.g. a thin wire from the switch pin to the lifted trace at some place where it is not lifted any more. Just provide the connection. Make sure the connection is insulated from the thinks it is not supposed to connect (which the lifted pad/wire did not touch). Notice that the lfited pad was providing also a connection between the top a and bottom part of the PCB. If a pad is not connected to anything on one side of the PCB tan you do not need to bother with that side.

So, what to do?
What I would do is to plug the board in and short the keys pads with tweezers or anything else conductive. See if the keys register correctly, if not, you can follow the trace and solder a jumper wire to the next adjacent pad. Know that some pads might need to be soldered to the corresponding diode.

So, what to do?
What I would do is to plug the board in and short the keys pads with tweezers or anything else conductive. See if the keys register correctly, if not, you can follow the trace and solder a jumper wire to the next adjacent pad. Know that some pads might need to be soldered to the corresponding diode.

Thx for your help! I fixed it with jumper wires. All switches are working  ;)
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: _GMK_ on Thu, 31 January 2019, 06:28:36
Hello, any update to the recommended tools?

I'm considering:
hakko 888 station, with the chisel tip because apparently it is the best choice for switches, used at 350° C.
a 63/37 0.031'' diameter wire (please recommend a brand, not kester, because in Europe it is difficult to find). It seems that the version with lead is easier to work with, but it requires a fume extractor.

Do I need a tip tinner?
Any suggestion for a guide or youtube video?

Also, what's the use of a Desoldering braid?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Squarism on Mon, 04 February 2019, 09:15:04
I was a complete beginner before handwiring my first keyboard. I probebly have cheapest soldering iron you can get($30). I managed to solder switches and 2  arduino pro micros with it. So one don't need pro gear for that at least.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: Wood_Cables on Wed, 06 February 2019, 09:19:05
Does anyone here have experience doing SMD work at home without the "proper" tools? Solder paste yes, but maybe while using a heat gun or something?
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: HaX on Sat, 01 August 2020, 21:02:25
I have a hakko fx-888, any suggestion on a good solder tip? Right now I have the T18-D16 tip on it. Wondering what everyone who has a fx-888/d uses.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: jamster on Sat, 01 August 2020, 21:49:32
I have a hakko fx-888, any suggestion on a good solder tip? Right now I have the T18-D16 tip on it. Wondering what everyone who has a fx-888/d uses.

Totally depends on what you're soldering. For general PCB through hole stuff, a chisel tip is good, and you already have one.
Title: Re: The Living Soldering Thread
Post by: hasu on Sat, 01 August 2020, 22:34:57
I'm happy with hakko T12-2BC for most jobs,  and occasionally T12-3BC for large thermal mass like connector.
I also have D16 and D24 but seldom use them, just personal preference. I have trouble to keep both sides of the tip wet properly for no reason.

T18 series doesn't have BC type unfortunately but T18-2C will work equivalently for FX-888.