Layout for programmer UK vs US vs US international

[shiva]

Hi eveyone !

I plan to buy my fist mechanical keyboard (I think it will be a Filco ninja TKL) that would just be used for programming so I would like some advised from experienced users / programmers .

I'm currently using a Macbook Pro with a UK layout which is different and look more like a US international and I really like having the @ on the "2"key  and " close to enter. 

So I would just like to know if the best would be to go for a US international (ISO -> Big enter key) or US (ANSI -> small one). I've always used ISO keyboard so the ANSI feel strange but I think i could get used to it if it's better for what I plan to do.

Also, filco doesn't sell any US international keyboard so i would need to buy a UK one and buy some key cap to change the layout (2-3 key) , is it easy to find for the ninja version?


Thanks in advance

Shiva

[LouisHjelmslev]

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference. Being in the same boat as you (in the UK, programmer/author), I'm a heavy 'functional' user of my keyboards (no gaming etc).
Personally, I'd recommend choosing the layout that's closer to your laptop, meaning there will be very little adjustment needed between laptop/desktop.
The Filco Ninja would be a fantastic first board, however just consider how important number entry is for you. Different programming fields may require variable usage of large-entry numerals, hence the full-size may be an option.
Also, I'm quite certain you can't buy ISO and convert to ANSI, or vice-versa. You're kind of stuck with one layout once you purchase them. The difference in key layout extends to the actual construction of the keyboard, so you wouldn't be able to simply swap out an ISO 'enter' key with one from an ANSI.

[iLLucionist]

I actually happen to own the US-version Filco Majestouch 2 Ninja Tenkeyless. I do coding all day long, alongside terminal work. For me, the US layout feels much more natural. I also had EU-layout and UK-layout, but I like US-layout way more. For me, it has to do with the accent keys, which, of course, you use heavily in coding, like ; : ' ". Also the pipe-symbol is left to Z in the UK-layout, which I absolutely hate. I never got used to it. But maybe it's different when you are already used to UK-layout. For me anyway, I prefer US-layout over anything else for coding and terminal work. But as always, YMMV. Just my five cents

[iLLucionist]

Btw, I ordered the Ninja-version off of amazon co uk through "the keyboard company". They have the Ninja-version both in UK-version as well as US-version.

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

It is probably better to get a keyboard with a similar layout to other keyboards you might use.  You could end up finding it frustrating switching between layouts - even just between this new keyboard and the MacBook Pro layout.

However also consider that is is generally more difficult to get complete keycap sets for ISO layout boards, although with some of the recent group buys huge advances have been made in that area.

The Filco is a good, reliable board, if slightly more expensive than some of the other options.

[shiva]

Thank you all for these advises.

It's hard cause the UK layout will have  the @ and '' at a different place but on the other hand if I get the US layout it's the same layout as my Mac but with a different Enter key (ANSI) which seems disturbing. 

Is it possible to buy a UK one (ISO) , buy a US keycap set and just keep the original UK enter key so that it would look like my mac?

Here is my current layout : http://realitypod.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/English-International-Keyboard.jpeg

I'm learning Java so  the numpad doesn't seem very essential,  (even though I'm a beginner) and I could still buy one later.

If it's not possible, if think I'll give a try to the US one and hopefully get use to the Enter Key.

PS : I'm french so sorry if there is any mistakes in my text.

[ajx]

Yes best advice its matching your laptop layout and your keyboard one
US layout is rather easier friendly to use.
I am no longer anymore to use any ISO layout.
It would up to anyone to decide whether it worth it to switch on

[Kliee]

I have used only US-international as soon as I knew it existed. But what I call US international seems to be different than what you call US-international. For me, US-international is a standard ANSI keyboard with some dead keys for the accents. For instance, if I want the character "~" I have to press the "~" key + space. If I just press "~" then n, let's say, it will gives me ñ. That's what US international is for me, same ANSI-US keyboard, only understood differently by the system.

For the rest I kinda agree with what have been said in the thread. Except that, when I started programming, I did it on US layout (the only type of keyboard at my school) without knowing that US-international layout existed. I found the US layout so much better for programming than the french AZERTY that I was using US qwerty for programming and azerty only to write mails and stuff.
Since I discovered US-international, I got rid of the AZERTY layout which actually is worse than US-international to write French.
So I guess sometimes you really want another layout.

[shiva]

Thanks Kliee for these informations plus it's nice to hear someone hating the AZERTY layout as much as me:P

In fact I'm working for Logitech and what they call US international for their range of keyboard is in fact the same layout I sent previously (of my macbook pro), so it's a normal US layout with the enter key of a ISO layout but I assume it's not standard.

Living currently in UK I don't really need to use accents so it wouldn't really change anything, it's just the Enter key. Was it hard to get used to the ANSI Enter key ?

I'm really tempted to to get the US layout... I think I'll go for a keyboard with Brown switches and .... Just a last question to be sure even though I think I'll get a Filco.

Which brand would be the best for me between Filco, ducky and DAS ?

[rowdy]

This is maybe semi-related, but back in my rubber dome days, I used to alternate between two different ANSI layouts - one with a 2.25x Enter, a 1.5 \| above it, and a 2x Backspace above that, and one with an ISO-like Enter, a 1x backspace, and a 1x \| to the immediate left of the Backspace.

I think more keyboards were for former layout (what AFAIK now is standard ANSI layout), and I found that I preferred that.

But switching between them was difficult, not because of the different Enter key size, but because the different Backspace key size and the different \| key position (under DOS, used to separate path components).

[Kliee]

Living currently in UK I don't really need to use accents so it wouldn't really change anything, it's just the Enter key. Was it hard to get used to the ANSI Enter key ?

I'm really tempted to to get the US layout... I think I'll go for a keyboard with Brown switches and .... Just a last question to be sure even though I think I'll get a Filco.

Which brand would be the best for me between Filco, ducky and DAS ?

Well, even if I lived in a foreign country I'd want to write in French once in a while .

Concerning the enter key, the first QWERTY keyboards I had to type on in my school were Keytronics with the non standard backward L shaped enter key. It exists on other keyboards, including mechanicals, and may be a good deal for someone coming from the ISO layout. The consequence is the |\ key moving next to the backspace key which is a one unit key in this configuration. I think it's what rowdy is talking about in his post. Something like that :

As I started to use QWERTY even at home on other keyboards, I had to adapt to the straight 2 units enter key and, after a while, a new movement engraved in my brain to reach the enter key.

As for the brand, I'd say Filco, especially if it's to use it at the office

[LouisHjelmslev]

Living currently in UK I don't really need to use accents so it wouldn't really change anything, it's just the Enter key. Was it hard to get used to the ANSI Enter key ?

I'm really tempted to to get the US layout... I think I'll go for a keyboard with Brown switches and .... Just a last question to be sure even though I think I'll get a Filco.

Which brand would be the best for me between Filco, ducky and DAS ?

Well, even if I lived in a foreign country I'd want to write in French once in a while .

Concerning the enter key, the first QWERTY keyboards I had to type on in my school were Keytronics with the non standard backward L shaped enter key. It exists on other keyboards, including mechanicals, and may be a good deal for someone coming from the ISO layout. The consequence is the |\ key moving next to the backspace key which is a one unit key in this configuration. I think it's what rowdy is talking about in his post. Something like that :
(Attachment Link)
As I started to use QWERTY even at home on other keyboards, I had to adapt to the straight 2 units enter key and, after a while, a new movement engraved in my brain to reach the enter key.

As for the brand, I'd say Filco, especially if it's to use it at the office

dat Enter

[xandr]

It's hard cause the UK layout will have  the @ and '' at a different place but on the other hand if I get the US layout it's the same layout as my Mac but with a different Enter key (ANSI) which seems disturbing. 

Is it possible to buy a UK one (ISO) , buy a US keycap set and just keep the original UK enter key so that it would look like my mac?

Here is my current layout : http://realitypod.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/English-International-Keyboard.jpeg

That's exactly what I do. I'm using a Ducky Mini - which is ISO - with a mixed UK/US keycap set so the @ is over the 2 and the " over the ' as they're supposed to.

Trickiest part is usually to get a \| keycap for the key in the ASDF row and something that makes sense for the key between Z and the left shift. I've modified the layout on my Mac so I have ~` on that key, but there's no set anywhere with a matching keycap for that row... Except DSA sets of course.