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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: toffz on Thu, 09 April 2009, 01:34:59
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Hi!
I was thinking of buying me my very first real keyboard with mechanical switches. As I live in Finland and the shipping costs from the US are pretty high, I am leaning towards Das Keyboard III, which can be ordered from Germany (I think).
Now I have been reading this forum for a while, and I have been trying to learn about the different switches that are around. Initially I stumbled here by googling the IBM Model M when I was hunting more information about those buckling spring switches. And here I constantly see you people talking about those Cherry blue, brown and black switches.
I know that Das has blue Cherry switches and from Cherry's datasheet I found out that blue switch is a click tactile switch. Brown on the other hand is soft tactile switch. So this is where my knowledge ends. I understood that they both have tactile feedback (as you can imagine), but are there any difference between blue and brown besides the noise?
I have tried searching for this from this forum but I haven't found a direct answer. For a newbie this forum offers LOTS of new never-heard-of-that-before stuff, so I am a bit confused.
Btw. If someone in Finland are willing to sell an IBM Model M, please contact me :)
Thanks,
Toffz
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Have a look in the Wiki for more info.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1433
The blues and browns are both quite soft. The spring rate is similar between the two.
The main difference like you say is a clicking sound with the blue switch.
Cherry blacks are also a nice switch if you like a very smooth key action. However they are harder to depress. If you are strong or have big hands and type like you are trying to resuscitate 104 dying rats then blacks may well be for you.
Welcome to the forum.
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I was thinking of buying me my very first real keyboard with mechanical switches. As I live in Finland and the shipping costs from the US are pretty high, I am leaning towards Das Keyboard III, which can be ordered from Germany (I think).
The Das III is indeed available from Germany. If you are a bit on the cheap side, you can get Cherry's G80-3000 for significantly less (I paid 45 Euros for mine); I don't know about the Das's build quality, but the G80-3000's is a bit underwhelming. The switches, however, are just as fine as on every other keyboard equipped with Cherry switches you can find. The G80-3000 is dead cheap as far as keyboards featuring mechanical switches go, so it's okay to sacrifice some build quality if you're willing to pay much less.
Now I have been reading this forum for a while, and I have been trying to learn about the different switches that are around. Initially I stumbled here by googling the IBM Model M when I was hunting more information about those buckling spring switches. And here I constantly see you people talking about those Cherry blue, brown and black switches.
I love the buckling springs; they're really loud and typing feel is really good. But they're also quite hard to press. Cherry's blue MX are much lighter and the click is a bit disappointing when comparing it to the Model M's, but they're still much better than anything you could get with a rubber dome.
I know that Das has blue Cherry switches and from Cherry's datasheet I found out that blue switch is a click tactile switch. Brown on the other hand is soft tactile switch. So this is where my knowledge ends. I understood that they both have tactile feedback (as you can imagine), but are there any difference between blue and brown besides the noise?
You can find the different force vs. displacement graphs here (http://www.multiprox.be/nl/download/files/Cherry_catalog_CID06_E.pdf) on page 5.
As you can see, there is quite a difference between those two and it's primarily a matter of taste as to what you prefer.
Take a look at the reviews of the Scorpius M10, Unicomp, Das Professional, and Filco (rough order of expense from cheapest to more expensive).
Alas, he lives in Europe, so the rough order is Cherry G80-3000, Das Professional, Scorpius M10, Unicomp, Filco with quite a gap between the Das and the Scorpius, as the latter is only available overseas.
If you have any PC recycling centers you may be able to find a IBM Clicky keyboard there (the staff may have a secret stash for themselves).
You might also want to try looking for Model Ms on ebay.
-huha
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I find the Cherry G80-3000 to be the superior 'board for Cherry browns. I find the Filco to be a little overbuilt for such a sensitive switch (see my comparison in the review forum, especially the last post). I think the Filco is better built keyboard, in general, but the keycaps are more dense, and to me, it's harder to feel the subtle nuances of the browns with the Filco. Feel is very subjective, though, so YMMV.
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Wow, the Das is cheaper than the others in Europe? I'd give that a go then - especially if you want a little style with your keyboard.
You're getting it wrong; the others are not sold in Europe, so the expensive Das is the only option if you don't want to pay ridiculous shipping fees (shipping my Endurapro to Germany cost over $50.
Just check their RMA policies carefully though - you might need it with the Das.
Returning it is not much of a big deal in the EU and especially not in Germany. You can always (required by law, except for a few product categories and items specially made for you) return it within 14 days for whatever reason and get a refund.
-huha
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I'm scared to even think about buying a Das from the bad experiences people have had, but it sounds like it may be your best choice, next to a Model M.
Definitely let us know what you decide!
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Those are good policies. We have the 30 day one but the item must be retail packed and completely sealed so they can put it back on the shelf.
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I'm scared to even think about buying a Das from the bad experiences people have had, but it sounds like it may be your best choice, next to a Model M.
Definitely let us know what you decide!
Ordered a Das from getdigital.de yesterday. It was the cheapest alternative costing 113€ (including taxes and shipping). It should arrive on thursday. Can't wait... :)
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Nice buy, toffz; I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
Despite some negative reviews, I'm quite happy using my Das III and never noticed any serious issue. I love the blue Cherries although they're a bit noisy. :smile:
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i think most of the "transposition typo" stuff is in people's heads anyway
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Typer: Cherry Blues. (Das III)
Gamer: Cherry Browns. (Filco Majestouch)
I found out about this too late. Hope you didn't make the same mistake. They are good for both, but are preferable over each other in their uses.
BTW when you receive your Das, get a rough cheap tissue and rub it over the shiny part. It will save you a lot of time meticulously cleaning it later. Also, although the keys may LOOK the same size, they aren't so only pull out one row at a time if you want to see the Cherry Blues. They feel like they will break when you tug on them, so put a paperclip on 2 opposing corners of the key and yank.
The 'long' keys have bars and white cross connectors attached to them to stabilise them, so be careful with those ones. If your spacebar is squeaky, take it off the bar, remove the white crosses and put some oil in the hole where the metal bar goes. When putting it back, place both the metal bars on the keyboard, instead of trying to attach them to the spacebar, and push the bar back on.
Just sharing some of my experience on my new Das to save you some headaches.
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LOL. My kid really wants to get his hands on my Das and I've told him not until he takes better care of his keyboards (burns up Logitechs like crazy). Lost cause....
Hmm. I'd try a modest Cherry G81, modded with some extra precautions against spills (drain holes, possibly membrane edges taped off). That should be fairly tough as far as keyboards go. But I guess you can't obtain one of these so easily?
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Typer: Cherry Blues. (Das III)
Gamer: Cherry Browns. (Filco Majestouch)
I found out about this too late. Hope you didn't make the same mistake. They are good for both, but are preferable over each other in their uses.
BTW when you receive your Das, get a rough cheap tissue and rub it over the shiny part. It will save you a lot of time meticulously cleaning it later. Also, although the keys may LOOK the same size, they aren't so only pull out one row at a time if you want to see the Cherry Blues. They feel like they will break when you tug on them, so put a paperclip on 2 opposing corners of the key and yank.
The 'long' keys have bars and white cross connectors attached to them to stabilise them, so be careful with those ones. If your spacebar is squeaky, take it off the bar, remove the white crosses and put some oil in the hole where the metal bar goes. When putting it back, place both the metal bars on the keyboard, instead of trying to attach them to the spacebar, and push the bar back on.
Just sharing some of my experience on my new Das to save you some headaches.
Das is going to be my work 'board, and because I'm a programmer the use will be 100% typing.
Thanks for the tips.