Author Topic: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.  (Read 51096 times)

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Offline ajx

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #150 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 13:44:27 »
any news about Poker 2?
i ve seen a picture from a prototype of poker 2, it looks like most proper layout i ever seen for 60% size keyboard

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #151 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 14:43:07 »
Which prototype did you see?

and no I don't have any more information, since I am not actively searching for Poker 2 info. It will be out in March though, so not exactly a long wait even if I don't across across any news.


Offline Hyde

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 01 March 2013, 00:51:01 »
Layout wise, I find at the moment the Tex Keyboard has the best integration.  Arrow key + regular size backspace.

Although Poker Classic's standard size will still be the best if you want custom keycaps, and backlit's kinda nice.

I guess still need to wait it comes out to find out  :D

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #154 on: Fri, 01 March 2013, 04:05:35 »
I like TEX's FN locations. Right under the thumb is very convenient. 1 size fits none, so I am sure some like the new crammed layout; some prefer the more standardish layout. More options = should be able to find a closer fit. Of course, GH60 will fit like a glove ^-^

Offline nullstring

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« Last Edit: Fri, 01 March 2013, 23:35:01 by nullstring »

Offline Sinzz

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #156 on: Sat, 02 March 2013, 14:22:28 »
gahhhh, when is it coming out?! I want it alreadyyyyy
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Offline developej

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #157 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 02:14:08 »
i don't like it...too manu 1x1 keys (arrows + shift + modifiers) :c
will probably get another pure

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #158 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 02:19:51 »
Both Poker and Pure are EOLed.

Offline vorn

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 06:46:43 »
I'm quite surprised no-one here has made more mention of the Ducky Nordic variation of the Poker Pro they were involved in. Here's a little demo video after it was officially announced...

Offline mashby

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #160 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 07:31:05 »
Both Poker and Pure are EOLed.

The Pure too? That seems like an odd choice. I suppose all will become clear with they release all their new models, but I thought the Pure was a pretty dialed in board.

Offline developej

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 07:48:41 »
what we need is ducky nordic pure pro in ansi!

Offline vorn

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 07:52:07 »
The only reason I'm excited about it is because it's ISO!! :p Only now are manufacturers even considering anything other than ANSI for a 60% board, and it's about time!

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #163 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 08:58:35 »
what we need is ducky nordic pure pro in ansi!

That would be called a Vortex Poker 2.

Offline sordna

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #164 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 12:35:22 »
That facebook link calls it PURE PRO though... Anyway, this whatever thread is the most appropriately named thread ever  :))

Is there a user's manual out yet ?
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
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Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #165 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 13:20:03 »
LOL ya.
I thought he meant "ANSI" as in standard 61 keys layout, not the arrow cluster layout with ANSI enter. I think the name finalized on standard 61key (62key in ISO) as the Poker 2, and arrow cluster layout as the Pure line.

I'll ask around to see if there's a manual.

Offline developej

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 13:48:44 »
what we need is ducky nordic pure pro in ansi!

That would be called a Vortex Poker 2.

i googled, but no luck - do you have a pic of layout?

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 06 March 2013, 14:34:53 »
I don't think there is a picture of the 61key ANSI board yet. (Being overly wordy so we don't have any more name misunderstanding shenanigans). Jocelyn posted the 62key ISO version. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40766.0
Basically, think Poker but with backlight, plate, and PN layer key in place of RWin. It seems the PN layer will be retained.


I been thinking about this for awhile, and I think I've figured out the reasons behind the naming scramble.
The original testing announcement in Jan was for Poker 2, and specifically named physical arrow keys. After a short period of silence, Pure Pro announcement came, which named Pure Pro as the board with arrows, and Poker 2 is the standard layout version.
IMO the weird layout was disliked by testers, and KBC people pushed the 66-67 key project to KBT and made the standard layout the Poker 2. Something made them changed their minds, and testing fit right in that gap.

Offline tinlong117

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #168 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 11:46:45 »
I don't think there is a picture of the 61key ANSI board yet. (Being overly wordy so we don't have any more name misunderstanding shenanigans). Jocelyn posted the 62key ISO version. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40766.0
Basically, think Poker but with backlight, plate, and PN layer key in place of RWin. It seems the PN layer will be retained.


I been thinking about this for awhile, and I think I've figured out the reasons behind the naming scramble.
The original testing announcement in Jan was for Poker 2, and specifically named physical arrow keys. After a short period of silence, Pure Pro announcement came, which named Pure Pro as the board with arrows, and Poker 2 is the standard layout version.
IMO the weird layout was disliked by testers, and KBC people pushed the 66-67 key project to KBT and made the standard layout the Poker 2. Something made them changed their minds, and testing fit right in that gap.
tinlong changed their mine. I had met the engineer of poker/pure/whatever and talked a bit.

Offline mashby

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #169 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 14:52:26 »
You da man!


Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #170 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 15:58:38 »
Speaking with a Vortex engineer wouldn't make KBC switch to the arrowless version, unless tinlong can speak for KBC.
I don't mind giving credit where credit is due, but explain this one to me.

Offline nullstring

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #171 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 16:25:18 »
I am guessing something was lost in translation there.

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #172 on: Sun, 10 March 2013, 21:22:22 »
i just want a poker with blue switches...hopefully this will come in blues..:X

Offline nullstring

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #173 on: Mon, 11 March 2013, 16:07:16 »
Any word from the grapevine when these will be released?
I'm interested in ANSI available in USA.

Offline ajx

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #174 on: Mon, 11 March 2013, 17:08:36 »
Poker pro, Poker II, Pure, Pure pro, Pure iso, Vortex keyboard...
wtf, i am so confused about those names...

Offline sordna

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #175 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 19:30:43 »
Pure PRO, backlit, apparently in stock and selling at €109.99, however in Spanish and French layouts at the moment:

http://kbtpure.com/index.php/kbtpure/kbt-pure.html

I want them arrow keys, in ANSI!
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Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #176 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 21:15:14 »
Hmmm, seems like the keyboards pictured have many slightly rotated switches.
http://kbtpure.com/index.php/kbtpure/catalog/product/gallery/id/273/image/1067/ http://kbtpure.com/index.php/kbtpure/catalog/product/gallery/id/276/image/1047/. It is just par for the course for the manufacturer they are using for these new boards.
« Last Edit: Tue, 12 March 2013, 21:20:55 by laffindude »

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #177 on: Tue, 19 March 2013, 08:05:19 »
So... did anyone pickup a Pure Pro yet? If so can you take a very bright flash picture, preferably with on camera flash. I am kinda curious about key spacing/rotation in shipping boards.

Offline Sinzz

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New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #178 on: Tue, 19 March 2013, 10:58:36 »
Is it even out yet? Besides the Spanish and French one. If so where can I get my hands on one?!
Keycool 84 MX Blue | Pure Pro | HHKB Pro 2

Offline kernelpanic

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #179 on: Sun, 31 March 2013, 12:36:09 »
It is available at kbtpure.com.

Any info on the Poker II (or Poker Pro)? It will be backlighted, right? Will it also be programmable? I hope the FN or the PN button are not at row one right sided, because those 4 modifiers would make incredibely nice arrow keys.

Offline Sinzz

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #180 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 02:54:02 »
I hope it comes out soon on a US website... D:
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Offline kernelpanic

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #181 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 04:05:47 »
For once, how about you Americans pay those ridiculously high shipping cost? =P

Offline cobraj

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #182 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 05:54:12 »
For once, how about you Americans pay those ridiculously high shipping cost? =P

^

Offline nullstring

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #183 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 09:55:44 »
For once, how about you Americans pay those ridiculously high shipping cost? =P

It doesn't look like ANSI is available yet.. so the point is moot.

Offline kernelpanic

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #184 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 11:17:13 »
Oopsi, I have misstaken a regular Pure with the Pro one.

Still no one who can give me some info on the Poker II? I might do a workaround and push the FN and PN button elsewhere, so I can realise my idea of the right four low modifier being the arrow-keys.

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #185 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 11:24:36 »
You can't reprogram FN and PN on the Poker2, so it wouldn't work for you.

Offline kernelpanic

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #186 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 12:11:37 »
But will it be programmable? Because I can move those switches elsewhere, I just have to remove the PCB connection and route via some cable.

I still have to decide whete I get a Pure, Pure Pro, Poker II or a GH60. Very hard.

Offline sordna

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #187 on: Mon, 01 April 2013, 14:07:25 »
I had the same dilemma but decided I need arrow keys. So for me it's Pure Pro or TEX.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline kernelpanic

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #188 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 06:39:25 »
The only problem of the Pure Pro seems to be the caps which are anything but standard.

Offline viowastaken

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #189 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 06:41:14 »
I wish the 75%  layout was more popular, as it is my favorite :)

A filco 75%..... the thought alone makes me giddy.

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Offline esoomenona

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #190 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 06:59:38 »
I think the problem with the 75% is that the most prominent example of it is the Race. I didn't like the feel of the Race. I didn't like the Blacks that were in it, so that didn't help it any either... but I think a custom 75% Luke Ron's GH60++ or metaliqaz Epsilon could be great. Being able to make decisions for your board helps a lot. But that top row on the Race? Blegh.

Offline viowastaken

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #191 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 07:10:11 »
I think the problem with the 75% is that the most prominent example of it is the Race. I didn't like the feel of the Race. I didn't like the Blacks that were in it, so that didn't help it any either... but I think a custom 75% Luke Ron's GH60++ or metaliqaz Epsilon could be great. Being able to make decisions for your board helps a lot. But that top row on the Race? Blegh.

I think layout-wise the noppoo's and keycools have it down pat. The major areas of improvement is general build quality. Noppoo has decent key-caps, Keycool seems to have a very nice general feel of the board.
The case and other things could definitely be improved a ton upon though.
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Offline Villeum

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #192 on: Sat, 06 April 2013, 04:56:59 »
Any info on its release ??

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #193 on: Wed, 10 April 2013, 00:43:52 »
18263-0
Buy a new keyboard. Take it apart ;D So ya, I got my laffin paws on a TEX Beetle. I couldn't resist buying one since I am a sucker for brushed aluminum ;o

Before you read on, read this post by mashby first.

Construction & Feel:
The board is put together in an interesting way. The plate, along with the PCB of course, is screwed into the aluminum case top with 6 screws, then the plastic bottom is attached to the case top (5 screws). What's different about the production board than the one mashby reviewed is that it has an extra screw in the front center to solve the case flexing in the middle seen in the protoype. Overall, the keyboard feels pretty solid. One thing of note is how the PCB is attached to the plate. There are brass standoffs pressed into the plate that keeps the PCB and plate apart, as well as provide something for the PCB to screw into. The design is pretty well thought out and pretty solid.
18265-118267-2
LEDs are there to indicate which soft switch option you've enabled. Yes they're on the bottom, and you do need to flip the board over to look see what you've enabled.
18269-3
Quick reference on the soft switch settings. Pretty smart. I hate those "refer to manual" crap.
18271-4
The keyboard sits very low and has a slope of 3degrees. I like my keyboard low and flat. I would have preferred even shallower angle.
18280-5
Interior of the bottom shell. Those are plate standoffs, but the bottom shell is only attached to the aluminum top.

Layout:
Not going to say much. You'll know if you like it or not. I am primarily going to use this as my gaming keyboard (ahem MX reds ;)), so I'd appreciate physical arrow keys. The ZXCV row being shifted .25x is not an issue for me. I missed hitting / key the first 5 minutes. Then no issue after that. I am not a big fan of the function layer, but I actually haven't really used it yet, since I still have my AHK running with my own FN layer.

Internals:
This keyboard is powered by a HT32F1755, ARM Cortex M3. Justin already mentioned that it'll be programmable, so hopefully there will be user customizable firmware for these things (so I can "fix" the FN layer ;)). It is also a USB2.0 Fullspeed chip, so theoretically, it should be capable of doing NKRO, but I was told they didn't do it for compatibility reasons.

Misc & random thoughts:
I took mine apart and added some damping to the case. All undampened boards sounds loud to me, so it is standard practice for me. The rubber feet on the board is really soft, and it absorb some of the shock of typing so it doesn't transfer it to the desk. It is actually quite quiet out of the box. I just prefer to kill all the resonances in the keyboard. I guess I am anal like that.
One thing I don't really know where to put so I'll stick it here. TEX actually give you 90degree mini-USB cables. MiniUSB is not exactly very robust, and having a straight cable that sticks out is just accident waiting to happen. 90degree cable will put less stress on the connector. I would have preferred having a fixed cable, but whatever ;)

Annoyances:
Not PS2 compatible.
Odd layout that will be hard to find keycaps for (For the record, I personally prefer ABS caps. Embrace the shine.)
Rubber feet are tiny. While it does stay in place due to the weight, it is still pretty easy to move it on my glass desktop.
Probably a little bigger than it has to be.

Wishlist:
61key standard layout.
Software programmable.
Aluminum bottom shell.


I'll update this later. I only had this on the desk for a day, but my initial impression is that I like it ;o
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 April 2013, 01:41:44 by laffindude »

Offline sordna

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #194 on: Wed, 10 April 2013, 01:01:53 »
laffindude, thanks for this post. Can the keyboard be used without the aluminum bezel or does it fall apart?  If you could take some photos without it, that would be awesome.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #195 on: Wed, 10 April 2013, 01:12:55 »
The plate and PCB is attached to the aluminum top. While you can place the PCB/plate assembly in the bottom shell, there aren't anything to hold it in there.

Offline omgFiRE

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #196 on: Wed, 10 April 2013, 02:25:51 »
Odd layout that will be hard to find keycaps for (For the record, I personally prefer ABS caps. Embrace the shine.)
I think WASD Keyboards have all keycaps excluding spacebar. For example TEX left shift (R1 1x2.00) is WASD 0(insert) from numpad.

Quote
Probably a little bigger than it has to be.
Since you disassemble the keyboard, is there a reason for bezel to be big at the upper side of the keyboard?
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Offline hasu

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #197 on: Wed, 10 April 2013, 03:09:12 »
LEDs are there to indicate which soft switch option you've enabled. Yes they're on the bottom, and you do need to flip the board over to look see what you've enabled.
WTF? Very... cool. I love that gimmick!

Quote
Layout:
...
I am not a big fan of the function layer, but I actually haven't really used it yet, since I still have my AHK running with my own FN layer.
If keyboard has an option that make Fn key output any of unused scancodes(like F18, F19?) we can configure whole layout completely including Fn layer with tools like AHK. I wish keyboards with Fn key could offer this option.

Quote
Internals:
This keyboard is powered by a HT32F1755, ARM Cortex M3. Justin already mentioned that it'll be programmable, so hopefully there will be user customizable firmware for these things (so I can "fix" the FN layer ;)).
Very promising. Programmability allows users for maximum cofigurability!
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 April 2013, 03:12:39 by hasu »

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #198 on: Wed, 10 April 2013, 04:45:55 »
I just dumped the device descriptors. It is connected @ USB Fullspeed and has bInterval of 0x01, so technically it is a 1000hz polling rate keyboard (not that it really matters).

@OMGfire. The PCB is bigger than the ones in Pures/Pokers. It wasn't designed to be as small as possible.

@hasu: It is nice I don't have to look at LEDs for things that I set once and forget about.
I would like it if it spit out some unused scancodes too if we can't get programmable option ;o

Offline laffindude

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Re: New 60% board... whatever it is called. +Rumors and speculations.
« Reply #199 on: Fri, 12 April 2013, 00:11:18 »
Part 2 of impression (probably final part)
18440-0
^Diamond cut logo looks really good and shiny.

2 days on the desk, and I think it is enough for me to gauge how much I like this board ;o
Actual usage:
The shifted ZXCV row really isn't as big of a deal to me personally or is the 1x rShift. YMMV of course. I like having the physical arrow more than I would like to admit. However, I still wish for arrows on the FN layer. Having the arrows makes it a decent general usage keyboard, since I do use arrows when I browse. I just wish for a more convenient way to get page up/down.

FN stuff:
The FN keys on either side of the keyboard is convenient, but like I've said previously I don't really use the built in FN layer. FN layer mimics the layout on fullsized board, which really isn't optimal for speed and convenience. There are mute and volume, but no fastforward/rewind/pause/stop. There are plenty room on the FN layer, not sure why it isn't built in.
The soft switches (see previous part's picture for what they are) are located on QWERT. I would have preferred them on the ZXCV row, since it is a little too easy to hit the soft switches on accident; ZXCV row would be a little harder to hit. Make sure you look at the datasheet and see if you can deal with the FN layer, otherwise you probably need to use AHK to write your own FN layer like I did.

Misc stuff I forgot to mention last time:
There are small attention to detail stuff I've noticed. Like all the screws used blue Locktite (not pictured), and there are washers securing the PCB to the plate. The flip out feet have a satisfying clack when it is flapped into position. It is a shame they didn't put rubber on it. I won't use the feet, but the keyboard does slide around much more easily when it is propped up. The caps are uncoated ABS caps with lasered legends.

Some disassembly stuff:
Here is the keyboard with the bottom shell removed:
18442-1
I was in a haste pulling it apart and putting it back together yesterday that I missed some things. The plastic bottom screws into the brass standoffs you can see at the 4 corners (not into aluminum like I previously mentioned). Only the center screw is screwed into the aluminum top.

Then the plate/pcb assembly removed from the aluminum top (Mr shakycam ;)):
18444-2(the shiny hexagon part is where they hold the aluminum to a fixture to get it anodized.)

Plate/PCB assembly placed in the bottom shell.
18446-3
I didn't try it, but I think I am mistaken when I said nothing holds it in. I guess it is possible to put screws in the bottom and hold the PCB/plate assembly into the bottom shell. Not sure why you would want to, since it is a bit homely like this.

Bonus material:
I bought an extra pre-production sample of a dark gray top. I heard it isn't going into production though.
18448-418450-5
(edit: the camera utterly failed in white balance. The dark gray is more neutral in hue, not slightly greenish.)

Summary:
It is a decent keyboard that is pretty nicely put together. Overall, I like the keyboard for what it is. I am not a big fan of the layout, but it doesn't really bother me in actual use. It is pretty to look at too. Not having a convenient page up/down is the only thing stopping me replacing my Filco as a general usage keyboard.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 April 2013, 06:56:32 by laffindude »