Author Topic: [IC] ALPS ansi key cap set (07-25 update) (Read 55699 times)

DUENAH · « **Reply #100 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 04:58:55 »

Expectations.

terrpn · « **Reply #101 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 09:55:02 »

Quote from: Hak Foo on Fri, 19 July 2013, 19:24:52

I'd argue that we should target the Ducky XM boards, the Filco Zero, and possibly the Solidtek ASK-6600 and Matias boards

Why? They're the "modern" boards. They're most likely to be consistent and no surprises. For example, I think the Focus 2001 comes in three layouts-- backslash in bottom row, backslash by right shift, and Winkey+backslash by right shift.

They're also the ones most likely available for people who want to pick up an ALPS board to play. For them, a default board-- that the set is designed to work with-- is a desirable thing.

Also, do note that some of the newer ALPS boards-- the Ducky and the Solidtek-- use a different stabilization than older ALPS boards-- it's Costar-style stabilizers.

understand your reasoning- stems are all over the place and appreciate calavera taking the time to check [the stems]

just food for thought and "if" SP can do the "extra" stems...............i would think at least you open the door for a higher quantity of people getting in, placing an order by those who have an older board (to help bring the price down)-- be it a dell 101 or whatever.

i'm betting there are more of us who have older alps boards than those who have modern alps and then what percentage of those who own modern alps boards are wanting to spend the $ to get in on this GB?

if the general consensus is to stay modern, increased pricing than that is cool............it is what the majority and calavera want.

i'm in regardless based on the color schemes i have seen and are you kidding me..........finally an ALPS GB

am just hopeful if it is narrowed down to a modern layout, SP cannot do extra stems that there will be enough people who pay to bring the price in somewhat reasonable

alaricljs · « **Reply #102 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 10:10:46 »

It was my understanding that SP can't do Alps stabilizer stems. So the only valid choices are for KBs that have Costar style stabs.

Tarzan · « **Reply #103 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 10:20:56 »

I'd like to have a set that will work on FK-2001 boards, both winkey and winkeyless.

I'm not really interested in newer Filcos or Matias boards, but vintage Focus/Magitronic boards are cheap enough to try several, it would be cool to have custom caps to update their looks.

Hak Foo · « **Reply #104 on:** Sun, 21 July 2013, 17:10:57 »

I suspect the WIRES might be reusable on a Costar-style stabilizer, but you'd have to supply it yourself.

calavera · « **Reply #105 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 11:18:04 »

I'm beginning to see why all past attempts have failed. When it comes to Alps, everything comes down to side stem locations.

It would help tremendously if I could gather info on the various boards and their stem locations.

Backspace, enter, left shift side stems are only 1/16"~1/8" off so my guess is most stabilizers will work fine.
Space bar and right shift is the most problematic.

So if you could post your keyboard, distance between side stem and center stem (center to center), kind of stabilizer..etc. It would help a lot.
Pics are even better.

terrpn · « **Reply #106 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 11:33:55 »

Quote from: calavera on Mon, 22 July 2013, 11:18:04

I'm beginning to see why all past attempts have failed. When it comes to Alps, everything comes down to side stem locations.

It would help tremendously if I could gather info on the various boards and their stem locations.

Backspace, enter, left shift side stems are only 1/16"~1/8" off so my guess is most stabilizers will work fine.
Space bar and right shift is the most problematic.

So if you could post your keyboard, distance between side stem and center stem (center to center), kind of stabilizer..etc. It would help a lot.
Pics are even better.

i would be happy just to do my dell 101

i thought i saw where you had the dimensions on it- if not let me know

my other alps boards (stems) are all over the place as Hak Foo says............

calavera · « **Reply #107 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 11:56:59 »

I saw one with stem distances on desthority's wiki but I can't find it anymore. It had measurements in mm's from center to side stem. But they were also just MX I think.

Now's the time to contribute your info!

Grimey · « **Reply #108 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 14:47:16 »

Is interested, many an alps switch sitting around with little to do.

terrpn · « **Reply #109 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 16:36:18 »

Quote from: calavera on Mon, 22 July 2013, 11:56:59

I saw one with stem distances on desthority's wiki but I can't find it anymore. It had measurements in mm's from center to side stem. But they were also just MX I think.

Now's the time to contribute your info!

never have pulled the stabilizers out of a dell board that has ALPS.............good grief

did not see how they came out and took a while to figure which way (murphy's law) they go back

dell (at101) "back space" from center out.....stems are 13-14mm off center

can you see how that fares with what you are looking at before i go any farther?

pasph · « **Reply #110 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 16:47:35 »

Make a pool and narrow down the old alps kbs interested
Or make a new SP standard alps stabilizers and feed old kbs with just the not stabilized Keys
Don't try to do what can't be done
Focus 2001, AEK, AT101, omnikey, SIIG just to name a few have at least different enter key or space bar stabilizers, then there are the compatibles like monterey, kpt or Omron, then the "new" duckys, Filco zero, Leopold lite, matias.
I have a number of those old kbs, even an IBM 5954339, and wish but really don't think anyone can cover all those variances

Veteran Alps experts discussing Clones (Credits to Webit)

calavera · « **Reply #111 on:** Tue, 23 July 2013, 11:01:46 »

I'm still in the process of working out the details of stem locations with SP but it looks like vintage alps boards won't be 100% compatible. Best I can do is split the sets up accordingly so that everyone with an alps board can buy something.

calavera · « **Reply #112 on:** Thu, 25 July 2013, 17:02:34 »

UPDATE 07-25

6.25x spacebar: stem positions are fixed. So chances are it won't fit your board in most cases. (If your alps spacebar uses stock cherry mount and positions it will. I've seen some old alps boards with big enter keys use these)

7x spacebar: Additional stems can be done for a one time tooling fee of $1000. Moving the stems will cost $500. The former would mean greater compatibility for various boards. (I've seen some old alps boards with big enter keys use stock cherry mount and positions)

For 2.75x shift, the stems can only be moved by a small amount but I think it's enough for the stab wires.
2x keycaps are fixed but stems are close enough so they should fit as well.

As you can see the spacebar is the biggest obstacle. I'll update the thread in a few to reflect final so we can move on to GB stage.

terrpn · « **Reply #113 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 09:33:49 »

worth a stab............

thanks for the hard work

like you and others have said for older boards will just try and place what will fit

will probably, eventually get a modern alps boards depending on how the caps, colors, options turn out.

to be honest..........i'm a bolt turner, not the best with wiring, soldering- so as much as i like the alps plate, board you are offering i doubt if i would try putting one together

if it was a big block chevy-- no problem

calavera · « **Reply #114 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 13:35:18 »

I'm considering including big enter keys. If you have pictures of yours and stem locations that would help.
Otherwise I'm throwing this out and moving on with ANSI only.

calavera · « **Reply #115 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 16:24:45 »

I need dimensions for 7x and 6.25x spacebar stab wires from alps boards please.

alaricljs · « **Reply #116 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 16:37:17 »

Ducky 1087XM - identical to Cherry

calavera · « **Reply #117 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 16:57:07 »

What kind of stabs, dimensions of the wires? I don't have cherry 6.25 to confirm.

alaricljs · « **Reply #118 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 17:01:45 »

Costar ripoff, cherry stems, C-C stem distance is 3 15/16"

calavera · « **Reply #119 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 17:31:08 »

Isn't costar thicker than regular alps wires? Does the stab wire bend in like or spread out and is the shorter side about 0.5"?

alaricljs · « **Reply #120 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 18:50:36 »

I know nothing about "regular alps" anything. outside-outside measurement of the bent end is 11/32" so nowhere near .5"

calavera · « **Reply #121 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 18:53:01 »

So its like the one on top (except shorter)? The bottom is from a Dell 101 6.25x spacebar I think.

alaricljs · « **Reply #122 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 19:02:37 »

Yup, like the one on top, shorter lengthwise. Also it has the multi-bend jog in the middle to go around the switch. But really... why does the wire matter? It should all be about stem position.

calavera · « **Reply #123 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 19:22:23 »

I'm looking at custom wires as an alternative to moving stems and paying tooling costs.

A custom wire could mean a spacebar that fits not only filco zero and ducky, but also dell at101w.

For the 7x spacebar a universal custom wire would allow older alps (SGI, dell at101, chicony, northgate omnikey..etc) compatibility without having to move the stems at all.

terrpn · « **Reply #124 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 21:49:25 »

sorry...........just checked in.

did you get dimensions?

calavera · « **Reply #125 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 22:08:33 »

Quote from: terrpn on Fri, 26 July 2013, 21:49:25

sorry...........just checked in.

did you get dimensions?

Not exact dimensions but I think the ducky one seems to be compatible as it is now.

You seem to have a few chicony alps, could you check your stabs and wire dimensions? Pictures would help. I'm also trying to cover big enter layouts as well so if you had pics of those that'd be great. I think the least I can do is include the extra 1x keys so the alphas are consistent at least on most older alps boards.

terrpn · « **Reply #126 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 23:09:17 »

chicony 5181 big you know what.......

calavera · « **Reply #127 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 23:12:38 »

Thanks. That looks like cherry stems for stabs? I actually need the shorter side length on the wires too.

Looks like this would pretty much cover most big enter key layouts:

terrpn · « **Reply #128 on:** Fri, 26 July 2013, 23:20:09 »

cherry stems

inside (short)on wire dimensions

28-29mm

15mm

terrpn · « **Reply #129 on:** Sat, 27 July 2013, 11:31:54 »

here are a couple more shots if it will help........

would be great if this is a possibility depending on cost?

did you get enough dimensions for a dell 101?

would be be awesome to grab a dell board, switch out with matias switches whenever they come out and the possibility, outfitting mostly with new caps

of course i hear and see many that want to keep modern- ducky, zero, ansi, etc. which i understand, but to be able in some form to have the opportunity to at least partially outfit some older boards you would have to think would get more people in the GB?

especially being this will be a first if it comes to form

if not then it is what it is..........

calavera · « **Reply #130 on:** Sat, 27 July 2013, 13:14:00 »

Thanks!
So far all the alps boards I'm looking into are:

Dell 101, 101W, SGI Granite/Duck mini v2, Filco Zero, Ducky 1087XM, Chicony 5181, Wang724.

Right now I'm considering splitting set 1 into alpha and mods separately. This way ALL alps board owners can participate.

WhiteFireDragon · « **Reply #131 on:** Sat, 27 July 2013, 14:04:45 »

terrpn, those two pictures of dimensions you posted, are those exact numbers from datasheets or are those your own measured numbers?

calavera · « **Reply #132 on:** Sat, 27 July 2013, 14:21:08 »

I'm pretty sure he measured it himself. Why?

terrpn · « **Reply #133 on:** Sat, 27 July 2013, 19:21:31 »

Quote from: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 27 July 2013, 14:04:45

terrpn, those two pictures of dimensions you posted, are those exact numbers from datasheets or are those your own measured numbers?

those are what i one-eyed

i tried to provide something IAW what calavera was asking for

the metric is more accurate.

the stab wires are inside dimensions- not outside.

terrpn · « **Reply #134 on:** Sat, 27 July 2013, 19:32:58 »

just to clarify......

i measured center out...........to the center of stab

not outside in

Matt3o · « **Reply #135 on:** Sun, 28 July 2013, 01:58:25 »

calavera do you still need help with stabs?

I have a focus fk2001 and next week I'll get an sgi granite.

calavera · « **Reply #136 on:** Sun, 28 July 2013, 11:55:24 »

Yes it would definitely help. The more people chip in the better.

pasph · « **Reply #137 on:** Sun, 28 July 2013, 14:02:16 »

Ordered a digital caliper

simkev · « **Reply #138 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 09:01:16 »

Quote from: calavera on Wed, 17 July 2013, 02:36:12

I will try to keep this as simple as possible.
This is an interest check for Alps DCS profile double shot keycaps to go hand in hand with my ALPS PCB/plate project.

Color inspiration
Show Image

Actual SP color: BFP/GC combo
Show Image

Divided into the following three sets.

Set 1: 89 keys (TKL)
Show Image

Set 2: 17 keys (Numpad)
Show Image

Set 3: 11 keys (Mod kit)
Show Image

Set 4: Vintage set (Mod kit)
May or may not be in the final order
Show Image

Combo stems:
Side stems will be cherry mount only.
Show Image

07-25 update
Looking into stem locations and stab wire options. Any help/pics of your alps board would be appreciated.

I think that you should swap the colors so that the base set would be grey and the modifiers blue.
Like this:

calavera · « **Reply #139 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:02:37 »

I thought about it but I think I'm gonna keep it the way it is.

Chances are the mods won't fit on most older alps boards and the only common keys are the alphas. So even with only swapping out the alphas you get similar effect of what the whole set looks like since most alps boards have grey mods already.

Quick dirty photoshop:

terrpn · « **Reply #140 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 16:05:34 »

no complaints here.........

did you say which font already?

simkev · « **Reply #141 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 16:27:36 »

Quote from: calavera on Wed, 31 July 2013, 15:02:37

I thought about it but I think I'm gonna keep it the way it is.

Chances are the mods won't fit on most older alps boards and the only common keys are the alphas. So even with only swapping out the alphas you get similar effect of what the whole set looks like since most alps boards have grey mods already.

Quick dirty photoshop:
Show Image

Ok, didn't know that about Alps.
Btw, how are you making the keycap mockups that are in your first post in this thread?

Photoelectric · « **Reply #142 on:** Wed, 31 July 2013, 18:49:10 »

I like everything about this set. Love that teal-ish blue. I will most likely be getting one, as I'd love to build / modify an Alps keyboard in the future.

calavera · « **Reply #143 on:** Wed, 07 August 2013, 21:27:33 »

Just posting to let people know I'm still on top of things, I've just been too busy to sort out stab wire situation yet.

kaotikb · « **Reply #144 on:** Sun, 25 August 2013, 16:58:04 »

I like how this set looks. I was looking for a set for my ducky green alps board.

Nask · « **Reply #145 on:** Mon, 26 August 2013, 07:53:37 »

Yum, yum, yum, I will need some keycaps with the coming ALPS/MX mini keyboard.

bueller · « **Reply #146 on:** Tue, 03 September 2013, 02:50:39 »

Definitely in.

noisyturtle · « **Reply #147 on:** Tue, 03 September 2013, 04:32:05 »

The orange/grey is yummy.
Grey/green would also look amazing. In regardless.

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #148 on:** Wed, 04 September 2013, 08:01:08 »

We need some keycaps to go with this

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48078.0

calavera · « **Reply #149 on:** Wed, 04 September 2013, 10:41:08 »

The problem with the 1800 is that you don't have a plate for the alps stabilizer mounts. what people have done in the past is use a combination of both alps and cherry switches for it because of that. Alps in 1x size (alphas, numbers..etc) and cherry in other sizes (enter, backspace, spacebar..etc) This also solves having to source alps keycaps that fit since 1x sizes are easier to find.

Anyways, the three sets I organized already cover everything for the 1800 layout. Some keys might not be the right height (like page down, delete, end keys.) Spacebar is yet to be determined.

News:

Author Topic: [IC] ALPS ansi key cap set (07-25 update) (Read 55699 times)