Author Topic: [IC] LCARS keyboard set - GB LIVE!!!  (Read 126120 times)

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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 16:36:37 »
No offense to anyone, but I'm still trying to figure out where "Make It Happen" came from.
Is that a translation artifact of going to German?

I'm thinking it is just a misquote of "Make it so"
As i recall, I am not on weed, then why would I make such a mistake, "Make it Happen" is supposed to be "Make it so"

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 16:42:09 »


let's all be starcraft ninjas

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 16:53:22 »
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)

I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.

The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.

So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.

36536-0

Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.

Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?

Offline divito

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:04:32 »
Fully support norbauer and his tastes so far it seems. I'd be in for a blank set though, so the fonts don't totally concern me. That being said, if we did 1.25s for Starfleet logos and such, that might be enticing. Otherwise, simply blank for me.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:10:23 »
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)

I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.

The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.

So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.

(Attachment Link)

Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.

Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?


I don't mind. You seem to have a better hang of this. I just floated an idea that I wanted to do, and your design sense does seem better, so why not.

If we ever do go into GB phase, I would need a US partner, I hope you get the hint.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:24:44 »
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)

I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.

The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.

So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.

(Attachment Link)

Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.

Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?


I don't mind. You seem to have a better hang of this. I just floated an idea that I wanted to do, and your design sense does seem better, so why not.

If we ever do go into GB phase, I would need a US partner, I hope you get the hint.

I am happy to help if you get to the GB phase and need a USA partner. I have some background in e-commerce and fulfillment, and I have a friend/business partner who might be interested in helping us take payments through their merchant account (avoiding the headaches of Paypal). Also, my last company was actually a US-India partnership. :)

The only trouble is that, again, if I'm going to become formally involved, we wouldn't be able to be involved in taking money (even if not at a profit) for anything that could potentially infringe on a trademark, as it could expose us and our businesses to legal liability here in the US. So I could only help with a blank set, or one that didn't use any logos or copyrighted/unlicensed fonts.
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:26:24 by norbauer »

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:27:42 »
Anyway, getting back on track. ;)

I just had a look at the profiles in greater detail, and I rescind my prior comment about DSA vs. DCS. I actually think DSA is a better LCARS—for its flatness. If you look at a DSA board side-on, it looks almost entirely flat. Even though it has a more retro look, the overall impression of this is more LCARS-like, I think.

The ABS spacebar issue, however, is a baffler. It makes me want to vote in favor of switching to ABS, but the trouble is that at least for SP the ABS colors don't offer nearly as good a match for LCARS colors as the PBT options do. Maybe use the PBT colors in most places and just pick an unobtrusive dark gray/black as the spacebar? Black is a pretty significant component of LCARS designs, so I thought it made the most sense for an unobtrusive color.

So here is my updated mock-up for my preferred configuration.

(Attachment Link)

Sorry, Moz, btw. I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am just enthusiastic about your idea! :) These are all just friendly suggestions.

Maybe imsto or other vendors will have better (or at least other) options for us?


I don't mind. You seem to have a better hang of this. I just floated an idea that I wanted to do, and your design sense does seem better, so why not.

If we ever do go into GB phase, I would need a US partner, I hope you get the hint.

I am happy to help if you get to the GB phase and need a USA partner. I have some background in e-commerce and fulfillment, and I have a friend/business partner who might be interested in helping us take payments through their merchant account (avoiding the headaches of Paypal). Also, my last company was actually a US-India partnership. :)

The only trouble is that, again, if I'm going to become formally involved, we wouldn't be able to be involved in taking money (even if not at a profit) for anything that could potentially infringe on a trademark, as it could expose us and our businesses to legal liability here in the US. So I could only help with a blank set, or one that didn't use any logos or copyrighted/unlicensed fonts.

I shall handle all the finances and become a milionaire. Muahaahaha

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:33:45 »
New mockup, hanks to the expertise of Norbauer.





I've made.


I think we should do DSA profile in PBT, blank and legends, we can get the legends done from SP itself and the licensed ones from IMSTO.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:36:05 »
New mockup, hanks to the expertise of Norbauer.


Show Image



I've made.


I think we should do DSA profile in PBT, blank and legends, we can get the legends done from SP itself and the licensed ones from IMSTO.

Awesome. I'm still not quite sure yet how I feel about my black spacebar idea. There is a plausible purple ABS color from SP that might work there too. I'll experiment some more and see if I can some up with something better. (Black also shows shining more easily, I think.)

Moz: would you mind sending me the graphic file you're using to make your mock-up? That way I can play with the colors in there more easily.

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:41:50 »
Attached.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:43:32 »
I shall handle all the finances and become a milionaire. Muahaahaha

Well, if you just need help proxying and so forth, so much the better! :) The idea of handling the legalities/finances of a group buy makes me a little nervous, frankly. But I'd be willing to explore it if it were necessary to make the blank set happen. ;)

I love the "eject core" legend btw. That is too perfect.






Offline divito

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:49:05 »
This is looking pretty awesome. Can't wait to see the final stuff, and the prices and such!~!
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:53:27 »
I really don't want to bug vendors and annoy them until we decide on a final color scheme and legends we want dye subbed.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 18:19:47 »
OK, here is my latest crack at it. I tried many various spacebar color options using the available (sadly very limited) SP ABS colors. The only thing that doesn't look weirdly dissonant, I think, is this GD gray. I tried RCJ and BFJ (which looks a lot like the Starfleet medical color), but it immediately made the whole design look really chromatically busy. Don't want to overdo it.

So, anyway, it is below. Let me know what you guys think.

If we get serious about this and it looks like we're heading to a GB, I'll order a set of color rings from SP and double-check in person that the colors match the LCARS colors as closely as possible (matching to the backlit Okudagram I have from the original TNG set).
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 18:25:45 by norbauer »

Offline divito

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:02:09 »
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:09:45 »
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.

Agreed.

Just one last question/tweak: do you guys prefer the original colored arrow keys (from my prior mock-ups), or should we set them off by making them blue? I'm not sure which I prefer. Happy to do whatever anyone else thinks is best. :)


Offline divito

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:18:23 »
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.

Agreed.

Just one last question/tweak: do you guys prefer the original colored arrow keys (from my prior mock-ups), or should we set them off by making them blue? I'm not sure which I prefer. Happy to do whatever anyone else thinks is best. :)

Include them as an extra 4 keys/WASD for those so inclined? I also can't decide which I think works well for a WASD option.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:21:14 »
I don't mind either.

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 19:22:06 »
I modified the first mockup just to follow the reference.

Actually you have come up with the MOST usable Lcars Key-set yet.  If it can be done in PBT with Dye-subbed text then we might have a winner.  Yes I still remember STNG, a very pleasant time of my life  ;D .

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 21:08:29 »
Got my vote. MOZ should re-update OP so we get a real interest check on this.

Agreed.

Just one last question/tweak: do you guys prefer the original colored arrow keys (from my prior mock-ups), or should we set them off by making them blue? I'm not sure which I prefer. Happy to do whatever anyone else thinks is best. :)

Include them as an extra 4 keys/WASD for those so inclined? I also can't decide which I think works well for a WASD option.

I don't mind either.

Sounds good to me! Based on the profile spec, it looks like these rows are interchangeable, so we can include an extra four blue keys. This would would open up various interesting combinations and possibilities. One of the up-sides of the DSA profile, which I never considered before.

For the version with legends, you could just make printed arrows in an extra set of blue, and perhaps those could be used in the WASD position for those so inclined.

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 21:24:40 »
Makes sense.

Offline Turbinia

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #71 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 21:33:56 »
Want.

v4.

Need.
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Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #72 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 22:04:49 »
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.

I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 September 2013, 23:01:24 by norbauer »

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 22:17:56 »
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

YOU have to include a "DATA" key somewhere in your key-set....... please  ;) .

Offline Artichoke

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 22:42:40 »
I guess it could just be me, but the pastel turn this set has taken has really turned me off of it. I guess you are going for authenticity which I can certainly appreciate, but with the current color scheme I probably wont buy it.

I could just be misremembering the LCARs panels, but I recall more vivid colors on the panels with the primary color of the panels being a black background with lots of darker oranges and blues like were in the original post. When I saw the original post, I immediately thought "star trek lcars panel," but now it's more like "weird unbalanced set of pastel colors."

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 22:43:26 »
I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

YOU have to include a "DATA" key somewhere in your key-set....... please  ;) .

i haven't been working on the version with legends, but I'm in favor! :)

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 22:50:49 »
I guess it could just be me, but the pastel turn this set has taken has really turned me off of it. I guess you are going for authenticity which I can certainly appreciate, but with the current color scheme I probably wont buy it.

I could just be misremembering the LCARs panels, but I recall more vivid colors on the panels with the primary color of the panels being a black background with lots of darker oranges and blues like were in the original post. When I saw the original post, I immediately thought "star trek lcars panel," but now it's more like "weird unbalanced set of pastel colors."

Bear in mind that we're severely constrained by the stock SP colors, but also soft colors were very characteristic of the Enterprise D. It was an explicit intent of the production designers to create a soft, warm feel on the Enterprise of that era, including in the LCARS designs. It was supposed to feel like a "hotel in space," where people lived for long periods of time with their families. You can read these discussions all clearly in the Okuda/Sternbach/Zimmerman production memos from the 80s.

Check out the quasi-official LCARS color guide.
http://www.lcars47.com/p/lcars-101.html

Offline Artichoke

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 22:56:50 »
Yeah, I just went and looked at the LCARs panels in the original airings, and they do seem much lighter than I remembered them being.

Been rewatching them on the retouched blu-ray versions recently so that might be why I was mistaken I suppose. Or my memory is just worthless, could be either.

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 23:04:23 »
Yeah, I just went and looked at the LCARs panels in the original airings, and they do seem much lighter than I remembered them being.

Been rewatching them on the retouched blu-ray versions recently so that might be why I was mistaken I suppose. Or my memory is just worthless, could be either.

No worries. You also might have been remembering the Enterprise-E era graphics, which moved more in the darker and primary color direction to make everything look more "tactical," as they tried to pass TNG off as an action series (to not particularly great success.)

Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2013, 00:40:23 by norbauer »

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 04:33:21 »
Yeah, I just went and looked at the LCARs panels in the original airings, and they do seem much lighter than I remembered them being.

Been rewatching them on the retouched blu-ray versions recently so that might be why I was mistaken I suppose. Or my memory is just worthless, could be either.

No worries. You also might have been remembering the Enterprise-E era graphics, which moved more in the darker and primary color direction to make everything look more "tactical," as they tried to pass TNG off as an action series (to not particularly great success.)

Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.

Wow! You would do that! That would be so awesome of you!

Thanks a lot for everything.

Offline bahamot

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 08:04:11 »
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.

I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
I like this so much! Definitely gonna join the GB if it really happens.

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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 08:08:26 »
Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.

There are color accurate pictures from the SP color ring here if that helps out.

Also are you sure the order should be split between SP and IMSTO? Having two suppliers will greatly complicate timing and shipping.
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2013, 08:11:04 by CPTBadAss »

Offline stoic-lemon

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 08:43:01 »
I'm much more interested in the blank set now. It looks excellent, and I'm just not too keen on the icons and text on the other set.

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 09:32:11 »
OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.

I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
I stopped counting permutations after 1024.
Consider me hacked for a blank set guaranteed and maybe one with legends, even though the legends wouldn't feel as authentic with all the logos it would still be badass!

Thanks again for ensuring the color scheme will be as accurate as possible. For some reason I remember the colors being more saturated but it's probably because I prefer a warmer more saturated look in my calibration haha

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 10:08:12 »
We can have the possibility of having the logos as an addon, and simple legends, these can be done completely by SP.

SP will not do the logos, we can get these from IMSTO and this will be a addon pack, which would most liekly ship separately from the GB. The point of this set is you have logo legends with matching colors for your set.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 11:23:43 »
Also, FWIW, if it looks like this GB really going to happen, I plan to order a color ring set from SP and match it to an LCARS back-lit graphic that I own from the original TNG set. So my final proposed colors may change slightly. The idea is try my best to verify the best possible match in person, since computer monitor colors are never entirely accurate. Perhaps I'll be able post pics of the SP samples next to my Okudagram to illustrate.

Wow! You would do that! That would be so awesome of you!

Thanks a lot for everything.

My pleasure. I would be delighted. Please just let me know, Moz, when if and when it's likely to move on to the GB stage and then give me a week or so to order the rings and verify the colors, so we have a good and accurate final mock-up for the official GB page.

There are color accurate pictures from the SP color ring here if that helps out.

Awesome. Thanks for alerting me to this thread.

My remaining concern is really just one of monitor calibration. I tend to calibrate my monitor fairly cool and others may have it relatively warm. So we all might be seeing slightly different colors. This would also have been affected by the white balance on the scans and the original SP images. So it's really hard to factor all of that out and know for certain.

Especially given that so many people seem interested in the blank set on this one (where it becomes all about the colors), it would seem important that the colors both a) actually look good together in real life and b) as best as reasonably possible evoke the original LCARS design and over all feel. Totally worth the investment to do an in-person color match, and I'm happy to make it.

Also, if I have all the color chips together in person, I can take a picture of them together in the same lighting environment in a single image and post them here, which should help give a more accurate sense of how they'll look together.

OK, based on comments from Divito and Moz, I have added a modifier set that greatly increases one's flexibility with this set and only requires adding a few extra keys (and no additional colors). This could be an optional add-on to a base 104-key.

I gave a few examples, but the possible permutations are many. (Commander Data could tell us precisely how many if here were here, no doubt.)

[Updated image to reduce clutter.]
I stopped counting permutations after 1024.
Consider me hacked for a blank set guaranteed and maybe one with legends, even though the legends wouldn't feel as authentic with all the logos it would still be badass!

Hehe. Cool. I don't actually own a DSA set right now. Can someone confirm that the B, C, and D rows (using the Cherry row-naming scheme) are interchangeable? Based on the diagram from SP (pasted into my mock-up), that looks like it would be the case. I just want to make sure that keys can be used interchangeably between the arrow and WASD positions, otherwise our add-on set doesn't make as much sense.

SP will not do the logos, we can get these from IMSTO and this will be a addon pack, which would most liekly ship separately from the GB. The point of this set is you have logo legends with matching colors for your set.

That sounds workable to me, but can IMSTO guarantee exact color matching to the SP swatches? If not, maybe you can dream up and alternative coloring scheme where all the keys with legends come in a particular color that would replace all the SP keys of that color, so matching wouldn't be an issue, and then you could ensure that all of the logo keys came in that color. The most likely candidate from my mock-ups would seem to be the darker blue positions. That would be the one requiring the fewest keys to come from IMSTO, I think.

Offline Dansor

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 11:25:11 »
Slightly off topic, but I've never really cared for the shiny surface of the Das Keyboard I have.
It occurs to me that the shininess would actually work quite well with an LCARS keyset, considering all the TNG data pads are pretty shiny.

Really hoping this buy happens :)

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 11:45:10 »
Regarding the color mismatch, we will get he blank keys from SP, and have them black dyesubbed like the other legends.


That shouldn't cause any problem, right?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 11:49:57 »
@norbrauer

If you want, there is a picture of an x-rite calibration tool that you can use to calibrate your monitor to show "proper" colors. It's in Dianoda's pictures. Let me know if you can't find it. Otherwise, I'm all for using having an in person comparison. I just thought those pictures might be helpful.

Also yes, rows B, C, and D in DSA are interchangable.


@Moz

It *shouldn't* be but I didn't like the dye-subbing on the first set of Imsto's Black on Blue PBT Cherry caps. I know Ivan worked very hard on them but I just thought they looked fuzzy. :|

Offline MTManiac

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 12:16:41 »
@Moz

It *shouldn't* be but I didn't like the dye-subbing on the first set of Imsto's Black on Blue PBT Cherry caps. I know Ivan worked very hard on them but I just thought they looked fuzzy. :|

I like the extra sharp look of double shot legends as well.
I agree, pretty much any dye sub looks fuzzy to me :(

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 12:38:16 »
@Moz

It *shouldn't* be but I didn't like the dye-subbing on the first set of Imsto's Black on Blue PBT Cherry caps. I know Ivan worked very hard on them but I just thought they looked fuzzy. :|

I like the extra sharp look of double shot legends as well.
I agree, pretty much any dye sub looks fuzzy to me :(

The nature of dyesub is as such that it looks fuzzy. However for those logos and custom font, we have not other option.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 12:40:32 »
The nature of dyesub is as such that it looks fuzzy. However for those logos and custom font, we have not other option.

Sure about that? I've seen very clean dyesubs.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #92 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 12:43:04 »
Regarding the color mismatch, we will get he blank keys from SP, and have them black dyesubbed like the other legends.

That shouldn't cause any problem, right?

Oh, that is a clever solution. I hadn't realized that would be possible. It would obviously greatly increase the production time of the sets, but we don't necessarily have to ship the blank and legended sets at the same time. So we could at least get a quick turn-around on the blank sets.

@norbauer

If you want, there is a picture of an x-rite calibration tool that you can use to calibrate your monitor to show "proper" colors. It's in Dianoda's pictures. Let me know if you can't find it. Otherwise, I'm all for using having an in person comparison. I just thought those pictures might be helpful.

Oh, I didn't see that; thank you. There are perhaps other means to do the calibration, but I think buying the appropriate tools from X-Rite would actually cost me more than the $70+shipping for the chips from SP. =\ I'll investigate further, but I'll probably end up feeling more comfortable vouching for the colors if actually have the plastic in hand. Maybe I have just been burned in the past too many times by production differences in colors from samples and digital proofs when getting things printed, but it never hurts to be safe.

I agree, pretty much any dye sub looks fuzzy to me :(

I must unfortunately concur on this. But, then again, I prefer blank caps anyway, so I don't really have a horse in the race. ;)

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #93 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 12:54:43 »
Oh, that is a clever solution. I hadn't realized that would be possible. It would obviously greatly increase the production time of the sets, but we don't necessarily have to ship the blank and legended sets at the same time. So we could at least get a quick turn-around on the blank sets.

SP does dye sub too if I am not wrong. So they can do the text legends, it is just the copyrighted logos we need from IMSTO, these would be a separate add-on pack in the GB, thus lead time shouldn't be tto much except if you want the special legends which would be shipped separately. And maybe we can have these a-la-cart.

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 13:10:46 »
Just for the sake of it, I thought I'd give a little bit of background on my thinking behind the color scheme. One or two people have pointed out that it seemed a bit more muted/pastel than they remembered from TNG. Although the intrepid and Sovereign class LCARS designs of later eras were a bit darker/colder, TNG always had a very muted and warm color palette: from the graphics to the uniforms to the décor. This varied a bit depending on the lighting situation (with the translight display colors looking more saturated when the set lights were low during combat, emergencies, etc). But my goal in picking the color scheme and layout was to evoke the overall minimalist and soft future-comfy aesthetic of the Enterprise D from the height of TNG.

Here are a few sample captures I was able to pull randomly out of episodes in Season 4.

36695-0

36697-1

36699-2

36701-3


36702-4


36703-5

Also, in keeping with the general "Galaxy class" theme, I think the muted color scheme also matches the general ship-wide feel of the Enterprise D, which had lots of desaturated pink, purple, tan, and turquoise colors throughout.

36705-6

36707-7

36709-8

36711-9

And among fan replica LCARS graphics, muted colors are very common:

36713-10

36715-11
(None of these images belong to me, obvs.)

This is obviously a somewhat subjective/creative call (and, again, we're bound to working within the constraints of the available colors from SP), but to me this sort of color palette really brings up the feel of the Galaxy class—which was so unusual and characteristic of TNG compared to the colder and harsher color palettes used through practically the all the rest of sci-fi.
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2013, 13:12:45 by norbauer »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 13:22:01 »
It makes me so happy that you're using TNG as a reference :D

Offline Dansor

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 13:26:22 »
Honestly, I think you're pretty close to spot on with the colors so far.

If we were to move away from the muted palette, in my opinion, it wouldn't be a TNG LCARS homage.

Bolder colors would indeed look nice, but that would be a different keyset :)

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 13:32:15 »
Honestly, I think you're pretty close to spot on with the colors so far.

If we were to move away from the muted palette, in my opinion, it wouldn't be a TNG LCARS homage.

Bolder colors would indeed look nice, but that would be a different keyset :)

Agreed. :) Next time, somebody can do a TOS themed keyset in translucent primary colors.


« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2013, 13:37:50 by norbauer »

Offline norbauer

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 14:01:54 »
Moz, I was thinking: if you do the logo set add-on, I wonder if you could maybe organize it as a separate group buy, and keep these sets generic?

The reason I ask isn't just the logistics, but I was thinking that if this project didn't have any copyright/trademark-infringing components, it would be much easier to publicize on the web via bloggers, people on Twitter, etc (and thus hopefully to get people to sign up for it, including people who might not yet know about Geekhack). We might even be able to get Mike Okuda himself (the designer of LCARS) to tweet about it. :) He is very approachable and friendly.

But nobody prominent is going to want to link to (and seemingly support) something that looks like it is going to be killed by a cease-and-desist letter from Paramount—being fan-made or not-for-profit is no exception.

Maybe you would prefer to keep this small and within the existing Geekhack community, in which case the above may not be a concern. But there are a lot of TNG fans out there, and a lot of them are gamers/nerds (i.e., people who would like mechanical keyboards), so it might not hurt to try to bring in people from a wider audience, including possibly existing Geekhack members who just don't log in very often but who might hear about the project via Trek blogs, etc. I personally know a number of TNG fans who are also programmers who would probably buy an MX keyboard just to have and use this keyset!

Anyway, just a thought.  ;D
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 September 2013, 14:03:34 by norbauer »

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] LCARS keyboard set
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 24 September 2013, 14:41:19 »
Moz, I was thinking: if you do the logo set add-on, I wonder if you could maybe organize it as a separate group buy, and keep these sets generic?

The reason I ask isn't just the logistics, but I was thinking that if this project didn't have any copyright/trademark-infringing components, it would be much easier to publicize on the web via bloggers, people on Twitter, etc (and thus hopefully to get people to sign up for it, including people who might not yet know about Geekhack). We might even be able to get Mike Okuda himself (the designer of LCARS) to tweet about it. :) He is very approachable and friendly.

But nobody prominent is going to want to link to (and seemingly support) something that looks like it is going to be killed by a cease-and-desist letter from Paramount—being fan-made or not-for-profit is no exception.

Maybe you would prefer to keep this small and within the existing Geekhack community, in which case the above may not be a concern. But there are a lot of TNG fans out there, and a lot of them are gamers/nerds (i.e., people who would like mechanical keyboards), so it might not hurt to try to bring in people from a wider audience, including possibly existing Geekhack members who just don't log in very often but who might hear about the project via Trek blogs, etc. I personally know a number of TNG fans who are also programmers who would probably buy an MX keyboard just to have and use this keyset!

Anyway, just a thought.  ;D

That just makes too much sense, you know! :p


It would be good to have them as two separate GB, however I think it would be a good idea to have them in parallel.

So what legends need changing? I think there are 6 keys: SF logo (WIN Key), UFP (MENU key), and the 4 extras (Romulan, Klingon, Borg emblems and Enterprise-D).

Suggestions for legends?