Author Topic: [IC] Single switch PCB  (Read 33105 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #50 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:15:29 »
working on the firmware right now but running into issues
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #51 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:21:33 »
I don't understand what these are for...

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:30:21 »
Do the switches still need a plate to be mounted, don't they? If I understood well the main idea is just to simplify the creation of the matrix for a board design. Am I right?

Offline rowdy

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:32:34 »
The OP seems to sum it up quite well ...

This is only an interest check for single switch PCB's [...] for people who want a custom layout but:

Don't want to pay for a single PCB or 3 from OshPark
Don't want to or don't have the ability to solder the rows and columns directly to the pins of the switches
Want to have a more secure method for back lighting
Want to try something a little bit different
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:36:07 »
Do the switches still need a plate to be mounted, don't they? If I understood well the main idea is just to simplify the creation of the matrix for a board design. Am I right?

you are correct.

I don't understand what these are for...

Make the actual assembly process for custom layouts easier without having to spend the money for a one off PCB.  If we can get a group buy up to 600 units the price per unit here will be about $0.25.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:37:48 »
I don't understand what these are for...

Make the actual assembly process for custom layouts easier without having to spend the money for a one off PCB.  If we can get a group buy up to 600 units the price per unit here will be about $0.25.

Which would make it around $15 for these if someone wanted to make a 60% keyboard but didn't want to, or couldn't, create a suitable PCB to hold all switches.

I think this is a great idea!

Hopefully we'll see some novel prototype layouts utilising these :)
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:44:29 »
Depending on final pricing this may be an alternative way to create prototypes. I suggest to create also a similar small PCB to install a teensy and a micro/mini usb, with pass troughs to connect the matrix with the tensy. This PCB will allow to have a full prototyping solution.
« Last Edit: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:51:48 by ideus »

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:51:47 »
Depending on final pricing this may be an alternative way to create prototypes. I suggest to create also a similar small PCB to install a teensy, with pins to connect the matrix with the tensy. This PCB will allow to have a full prototyping solution.

Check this thread.

There are 2 versions in the thread one with mount holes on the ends and one on the sides.  The mount holes are large enough for 6-32 screws which is standard screw for motherboard standoffs.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:53:12 »
Depending on final pricing this may be an alternative way to create prototypes. I suggest to create also a similar small PCB to install a teensy, with pins to connect the matrix with the tensy. This PCB will allow to have a full prototyping solution.

Check this thread.

There are 2 versions in the thread one with mount holes on the ends and one on the sides.  The mount holes are large enough for 6-32 screws which is standard screw for motherboard standoffs.


Which thread? there is no link, nor reference.

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:55:02 »
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 03 April 2014, 23:58:42 »
Now I checked that. Any chance to get these PCBs, the GH one, and the teensy in sets?

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 00:00:37 »
Now I checked that. Any chance to get these PCBs, the GH one, and the teensy in sets?

I don't want to release to much info from stuff that is in the pipe line but keep watching.  What I am referring to is not comming from me, hence the non disclosure statement.  But these will be made and the Teensy breakout boards are open source.  Feel free to have them made to your hearts content.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 00:01:59 »
Now I checked that. Any chance to get these PCBs, the GH one, and the teensy in sets?

I don't want to release to much info from stuff that is in the pipe line but keep watching.  What I am referring to is not comming from me, hence the non disclosure statement.  But these will be made and the Teensy breakout boards are open source.  Feel free to have them made to your hearts content.


I'll be watching your thread. Thanks.

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #63 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 00:16:00 »
Perhaps I will remove the masking from my name :D

Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #64 on: Fri, 04 April 2014, 00:19:21 »
Also do google "regack megatroller" ;)

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 10:40:57 »
Update, the firmware works.  Shorting pads on the teensy makes numbers come out but hitting the switches does nothing yet.  At first I thought I had the teensy wired to the wrong side of the diodes on the rows but I swapped that around and still nothing.  Time to start trouble shooting.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:02:00 »
A batch of 9 v2.0 has been ordered.
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Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 16:42:28 »
woot
I love Elzy

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 22:14:01 »
V1.0 working.

60485-0
And yes the case is a cardboard box.  It used to house a 280 GTX.

60487-1

Just a quick and dirty solder job but this was a proof of concept and/or test bed or future versions of PCBs and firmware.
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Offline MOZ

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 22:18:38 »
You used the TMK firmware?

Do I need to invert the diode silkscreen?

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 08 April 2014, 22:24:38 »
You used the TMK firmware?

Do I need to invert the diode silkscreen?

I did use the TMK firmware.  As far as the silkscreen I am not sure really which side of the diode is the cathode and anode.  I can tell you that it works with the black band on the left as the bottom of the switch is facing you.
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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 16:29:57 »
Interested!

Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 18:13:14 »
V1.0 working.

(Attachment Link)
And yes the case is a cardboard box.  It used to house a 280 GTX.

(Attachment Link)

Just a quick and dirty solder job but this was a proof of concept and/or test bed or future versions of PCBs and firmware.


What is the next step Mel?

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 18:26:23 »
V1.0 working.

(Attachment Link)
And yes the case is a cardboard box.  It used to house a 280 GTX.

(Attachment Link)

Just a quick and dirty solder job but this was a proof of concept and/or test bed or future versions of PCBs and firmware.


What is the next step Mel?

I have a set of v2.0 ordered to test that design (soldering wires to that small of a pad was a pain) and from there I will be setting up the GB.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 09 April 2014, 18:38:09 »
V1.0 working.

(Attachment Link)
And yes the case is a cardboard box.  It used to house a 280 GTX.

(Attachment Link)

Just a quick and dirty solder job but this was a proof of concept and/or test bed or future versions of PCBs and firmware.


What is the next step Mel?

I have a set of v2.0 ordered to test that design (soldering wires to that small of a pad was a pain) and from there I will be setting up the GB.


I bet it was very difficult to solder them, I will need to put my soldering skills in practice again. What is the timming you are considering for the GB to start?

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 13:50:32 »
Well, version 2.0 has shipped.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 13:53:15 »
No timing for the GB yet?

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 14:01:54 »
Shouldn't be to long.  I want to make sure that this version works right before I start the GB.  Sorry for the delays but my time for hobbys is pretty limited with my work schedule.  I work 6 days on 3 days off 12 hour days right now.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 14:04:56 »
Take it easy my friend, I was just curious about it, because this will be the way to go to implement my own keyboard lay out.  :thumb:

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 14:08:45 »
Take it easy my friend, I was just curious about it, because this will be the way to go to implement my own keyboard lay out.  :thumb:

All good.  I just want things to be right before I subject others to the methods behind my madness I call a hobby.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 14:11:31 »
Take it easy my friend, I was just curious about it, because this will be the way to go to implement my own keyboard lay out.  :thumb:

All good.  I just want things to be right before I subject others to the methods behind my madness I call a hobby.


I have seen you involved in software for firmware, as well, I hope you can put a nice kit to build different layouts, with controller, software for programming, and individual pcbs, it would be awesome.

Offline katushkin

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 15:11:20 »
I would love just one of these to have as a big button I can hit at opportune moments.
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Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 15:20:39 »
Take it easy my friend, I was just curious about it, because this will be the way to go to implement my own keyboard lay out.  :thumb:

All good.  I just want things to be right before I subject others to the methods behind my madness I call a hobby.


I have seen you involved in software for firmware, as well, I hope you can put a nice kit to build different layouts, with controller, software for programming, and individual pcbs, it would be awesome.

I wish I could but at this point I just don't have the requisite skills with coding to offer that sort of thing.  There are plenty of options available.  The biggest thing I would like to see would be a firmware generator for hand wire matrix setups.  Essentially input which keys are in which rows and columns, designate pins on the controller to each row and column, wire up, flash firmware, and rock that new board.  But I don't have those skills.
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Offline ideus

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 16 April 2014, 15:23:55 »
Take it easy my friend, I was just curious about it, because this will be the way to go to implement my own keyboard lay out.  :thumb:

All good.  I just want things to be right before I subject others to the methods behind my madness I call a hobby.


I have seen you involved in software for firmware, as well, I hope you can put a nice kit to build different layouts, with controller, software for programming, and individual pcbs, it would be awesome.

I wish I could but at this point I just don't have the requisite skills with coding to offer that sort of thing.  There are plenty of options available.  The biggest thing I would like to see would be a firmware generator for hand wire matrix setups.  Essentially input which keys are in which rows and columns, designate pins on the controller to each row and column, wire up, flash firmware, and rock that new board.  But I don't have those skills.


That sounds really good. I'll stick to the other thread and see if someone takes that job.

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 19 April 2014, 00:03:12 »
Delivery of v2.0 pcbs is supposed to be Monday according to the tracking notification.
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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 19 April 2014, 20:32:45 »
Correction.  Version 2.0 showed up today.

61528-0
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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:38:19 »
Currently removing v1.0 pcbs from my test bed and replacing with v2.0.  For the record 20ga stranded wire does not fit.  Though, 22 ga stranded fills the hole nicely.  I do not have any solid core wire to test.  If anyone has any pieces of various sizes at 19 and or a gauge smaller and could send me a couple feet or so of each for keyboard science that would be great.
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:48:52 »
18, 20, 22, 24, 26 are the common hookup wire gauges. hookup wire is almost exclusively stranded core. you use solid core for jumpers, very high power but space constrained applications, stuff like that.

i would say that as long as 22ga stranded fits these holes, they're in good shape. 20 would be nice, but 18 is just going to be clumsy and overkill.

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Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #88 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 22:53:55 »
18, 20, 22, 24, 26 are the common hookup wire gauges. hookup wire is almost exclusively stranded core. you use solid core for jumpers, very high power but space constrained applications, stuff like that.

i would say that as long as 22ga stranded fits these holes, they're in good shape. 20 would be nice, but 18 is just going to be clumsy and overkill.

Yeah all I have is some 20, 22, and the wires from a DB25-Centronics 36 printer cable, and the stupid small wires from an old IDE hard drive cable.  I think those are in the realm of 26 or 28 ga stranded.
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Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 23:06:25 »
Correction.  Version 2.0 showed up today.

(Attachment Link)

dibs? :D
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Offline mkawa

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 23:08:17 »
not having hookup wire around sucks. it's cheap, and easy to forget to stock, but when you need to make that one connection.. rararargghgahrghag

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/hook-up-wire/1614

i especially hate not having the right color around. "ok, i have to remember that red means earth ground on this assembly"

30 minutes later

"****"

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline Sifo

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #91 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 23:09:33 »
not having hookup wire around sucks. it's cheap, and easy to forget to stock, but when you need to make that one connection.. rararargghgahrghag

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/hook-up-wire/1614

i especially hate not having the right color around. "ok, i have to remember that red means earth ground on this assembly"

30 minutes later

"****"

Ye I had to butcher a cable cuz didn't have wire ;(
I love Elzy

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 20 April 2014, 23:14:01 »
not having hookup wire around sucks. it's cheap, and easy to forget to stock, but when you need to make that one connection.. rararargghgahrghag

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/hook-up-wire/1614

i especially hate not having the right color around. "ok, i have to remember that red means earth ground on this assembly"

30 minutes later

"****"

This just reminds me of an episode of "Home Improvement" where Tim was "rewiring" the dish washer and he had the youngest with him.  He says "Now remember yellow is the ground, the sun is yellow and the sun heats the ground".  /snip ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 21 April 2014, 00:33:32 »
Well I have most of the PCB's desoldered and 3 wired back up in the test bed across one row.  They work just fine and are 100 times easier to solder up than v1.0 with 22 ga wire working perfectly.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline mzero

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 21 April 2014, 08:02:33 »
Interested  :thumb:

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 00:30:44 »
I can confirm v2.0 PCB's work flawlessly.  They are MUCH easier to solder up than the first version.  Hats off to MOZ for doing the KiCad work for me on these.  I would imagine that this was like trying to build a Cadillac inside of a doghouse.  I will be attempting to start the group buy later this week.  The one problem is I have not ran any group buys before and I still need to get in contact with Osh Park about a legitimate quote for multiple hundred of these as I will be ordering enough for 2 full size, a TKL and then some. 

If anyone has any experience of running a smaller group buy would you please PM me?  I don't think this will get into the dollar figures that PayPal will want a business account but it is still a possibility.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline Pacifist

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 00:31:43 »
****.yes.

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 00:35:36 »
****.yes.

Come on Pacifist, don't sugar coat it, tell us how you really feel.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich

Offline AKmalamute

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 01:46:20 »
I've run a 5-person several-hundred-$$ GB. Going to get a lot bigger next time around.

Major thing I can suggest, is keep your ducks in a row. When you update a spreadsheet, if you're actually using a .txt file on your PC -- update it too, at that same moment.

Keep any relevant PMs they'll help you sort out last-minute order changes. Reply to folks who're being unclear until you both know what you think the other is doing; don't spend your money on guessing what the other GH'er wants unless you can be okay about them backing out / clarifying it into something completely different.

Paypal allows $500 / month withdrawl without saying anything ... I haven't tried to lift that limit but somebody said it's not an issue until you get to GH60 sized $20,000+ being shuffled that you have to jump through way too many hoops.

(that would be a lot of PCBs. You could probably stage it into different months, y'know?)

Any other questions of a small one-time GB-organizer, you can ask me ... but there's plenty here who've run much bigger GBs whose input would still apply.

And, here's a thought -- you're open sourcing the switch file, right? So, after your first round or two, you could consider posting the file itself, or maybe OSHpark would 'publicize' the design for you. Smaller runs would reduce the cost savings but they could be ordered on demand by the user. It would depend on how quickly the per-board savings stacked up, and could overtake the shipping complications.

For myself -- I'm not sure I can get in (timing of my own personal finances) but I would want, if I got in, to buy ~200 boards -- enough for a TKL, a 60%, and some left over for a atreaus / ergodox spin-off thing. I'm sure others here think the same, so don't plan on "a few hundred" -- find the ~5,000 price tier and another around 2,000, maybe something sub-1,000 -- I bet if you tell us your personal MOQ is 6,200 switch-boards because reasons ... we'd hit it in less than a month of ordering.

HHKB-lite2, Dvorak user

Offline Melvang

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Re: [IC] Single switch PCB
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 22 April 2014, 12:04:00 »
Thanks for the info ak.  I am going to try and get a Google doc set up as an ordering form.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich