This innovation has been welcome news.
I have at least one board I've love to upgrade with these switches, anxiously awaiting.
Thanks
As for PCB layout, go to the Cherry Data Sheet (http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm) and search for Circuit Board Layouts or scroll till you see the 'graph paper', that's what I'm looking for :)
I'm really excited about those new switchs.
I will surely get the sample pack, and will probably buy one of your keyboards later.
Will you also make a keyboard using the white switchs?
I think most of the demand on the PC side will be for the quiet orange switch keyboard.That's what I demand! Well, request, :wink:
Matias - side question...
Have you thought about doing a Linear switch variant? I don't know the specifics but this usually involves removing a portion of the Alps switch to make it happen.
If you created a quiet 50g Linear version of this it would definitely take a bite out of Cherry MX Red sales.
The actuation force is 60±5, what is the force to bottom out the key or do ALPS activate when they bottom out?
Bottoming out force is around 35 gf.
Actuation happens when you feel the tactile bump.
I assume that's from the point of actuation? What's the peak force? What is the peak force or the force going from non-actuated to bottomed out? I am not familiar at all with any Alps switches so I am trying to get a comparison to MX switches.
Shut up and take my money!
The peak force is 60±5 gf. It's a tactile switch, so once you break past the peak force it drops dramatically to around 35 gf.
Didja, you should shoot for a free review board :p I'm excited about this.
I can't wait to try these.
My favorite board is still my complicated white alps ergo, but after trying all these compact layouts and some quieter switches I'm ready for a smaller ALPs board that doesn't sound like a tuning fork.
I can't wait to try these.
My favorite board is still my complicated white alps ergo, but after trying all these compact layouts and some quieter switches I'm ready for a smaller ALPs board that doesn't sound like a tuning fork.
I don't think I know this board. How about a little introduction? :)
welcome back matias!
any idea when we might be able to get our hands on datasheets/samples of the new switches? :D
So, wait ... you mean that the clicky and tactile switches are both white slider? Oh boy ...
How much of a difference did the colouring really make? I don't suppose it's likely to account for the difference in feel of existing switches, such as why Dell AT10* black ALPS keyboards feel so rough? Or do you mean that the sliders were still smooth, but just out of spec? I presume that the switches are smoother than black ALPS ;-)
Some way to differ between them would be nice so that one could tell from a photo in an ad for instance.So, wait ... you mean that the clicky and tactile switches are both white slider? Oh boy ...
Yes, they both have a white slider. Don't worry, you'll still be able to tell them apart.QuoteHow much of a difference did the colouring really make? I don't suppose it's likely to account for the difference in feel of existing switches, such as why Dell AT10* black ALPS keyboards feel so rough? Or do you mean that the sliders were still smooth, but just out of spec? I presume that the switches are smoother than black ALPS ;-)
It made enough of a difference that it didn't feel as good. That was reason enough to change it back.
Besides, nobody can see the slider when the keyboard is assembled. The user just cares how it feels. That's more important than the colour of a slider they can't see.
It will have a Mac version with clicky switches, the PC will have dampened quiet tactile switches.
The keyboard you are looking at is based off the Matias Tactile Pro 3. The new Tactile Pro 4 isn't even available to preorder/purchase yet.
Just want to give you all an update on the new switches and the new keyboards...I'm really digging that the plate is "bent over" at both sides (for more stability). Also, the fact that the PC version is black/black is pretty excellent, too.
Production on the keyboards is happening this now, and everything is looking really good. It should all be done by the end of this month. We expect to receive the shipment by around Sept 12th.
We're preparing web pages now. I'll let you know soon when we'll be taking pre-orders, if you don't want to wait. There are 3 keyboards being released with the following part numbers...
FK302 ............. Clicky ALPS switches - Mac layout - White case & keys
FK302Q .......... New quiet switches - Mac layout - Silver case with Black keys
FK302QPC ..... New quiet switches - PC layout - Black case & keys
Attached is a photo from the factory, showing the new switches on one of the first assembled units.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Clear switch housings.... is in support of backlighting or it just happened that way?
I'm really digging that the plate is "bent over" at both sides (for more stability). Also, the fact that the PC version is black/black is pretty excellent, too.
Matias, thank you very much for the update! I was already excited about this; however this past weekend I had the opportunity to sample some original Apple Extended keyboards and it only confirmed how awesome these new boards are going to be. Yourself and the Engineers deserve a pat on the back for not only continuing to make Alps switches but to improve them beyond what the original designers envisioned.
sorry to bother you about this -- you're probably swamped right now (and excited; i would be!). but, any eta on the switch datasheets and samples kits?
I was thinking of getting my self an alps board as its the one switch I dont have a board of. This one seems to be the one to go with, i wonder what the keycaps are made of and how the legend was done.
I was thinking of getting my self an alps board as its the one switch I dont have a board of. This one seems to be the one to go with, i wonder what the keycaps are made of and how the legend was done.
Keycaps are ABS and legends are lasered.
This question doesn't need to be answered right away, but you're checking the thread anyhow.
Will the boards be compatible with other keycaps? (from "old" alps boards) ?
I guess I wait before going on an alps shopping spree then.This question doesn't need to be answered right away, but you're checking the thread anyhow.
Will the boards be compatible with other keycaps? (from "old" alps boards) ?
It depends on which keyboard you're harvesting keycaps from.
For example, on the Apple Extended Keyboard, for the function keys, Apple mounted those switches rotated 90° (with the stems like this | rather than the standard way like this —).
Was it said at one point that getting just the switches would be an option? As i know people are drumming up some interest in a custom alps board...
Which would be dirt cheap so let's hope they're good as well. :)now we just need a custom board to stick them in.
The orange color was changed to white. So there are white quiet tactile and white clicky.
Definitely a racist switch.
Are the switches somewhat similar? Can they be replaced with each other easily?
Any plans for PBT caps?
Are the switches somewhat similar? Can they be replaced with each other easily?
Yes, they are plug compatible with standard ALPS switches. They can be soldered into any ALPS board.Any plans for PBT caps?
No plans for PBT caps. Not sure what the big attraction is for those.
its also rougher and feels better on the fingersAre the switches somewhat similar? Can they be replaced with each other easily?
Yes, they are plug compatible with standard ALPS switches. They can be soldered into any ALPS board.Any plans for PBT caps?
No plans for PBT caps. Not sure what the big attraction is for those.
PBT is a lot more durable than ABS.
It doesn't get yellow as fast.
no tenkeyless love, right?they ight you would have to redo the entire PCB though.
maybe it's time I start digging into keyboard modding... would the keys fit into a filco case?
I'll start composing mine now :PThe orange color was changed to white. So there are white quiet tactile and white clicky.
Definitely a racist switch.
Really looking forward to reading hate mail from all those people with fake tans... :)
I see that Signature Plastics sells PBT caps for ALPS.
We use the same keycap vendor as Filco, so it should be easy enough to source caps, for anyone who wants them.
I'll look into PBT caps more, but from what I've read so far, there doesn't seem to be much difference. For what it's worth, this page claims that they're more prone to cracking and no less resistant than ABS to turning shiny...http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php (http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php)
Do POM/PBT ALPS keycaps exist at all? You could have something unique.
I see that Signature Plastics sells PBT caps for ALPS.PBT is harder (Higher youngs modulus, etc.) and as a result, more brittle. This is very frequently the case with materials. I believe that \KL (Keyboardlover) is incorrect when he says "There is a common misconception that PBT is less prone to becoming "shiny" over time than ABS, but this has been proven to be false." Who hav proved this? Where are their results. Another member did some testing, and while his test was less than 100% rigorously scientific, it does have merit. \KL is often at odds with that person, so he may have put it there. Another member, who reported putting 2,000,000,000+ keystrokes into akeyboard (and replacing the parts as they broke) said that he wore through his ABS doubleshot keycaps on his cherry keyboard much faster than the PBT on his IBM.
We use the same keycap vendor as Filco, so it should be easy enough to source caps, for anyone who wants them.
I'll look into PBT caps more, but from what I've read so far, there doesn't seem to be much difference. For what it's worth, this page claims that they're more prone to cracking and no less resistant than ABS to turning shiny...http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php (http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php)
PBT is harder (Higher youngs modulus, etc.) and as a result, more brittle. This is very frequently the case with materials. I believe that \KL (Keyboardlover) is incorrect when he says "There is a common misconception that PBT is less prone to becoming "shiny" over time than ABS, but this has been proven to be false." Who hav proved this? Where are their results. Another member did some testing, and while his test was less than 100% rigorously scientific, it does have merit. \KL is often at odds with that person, so he may have put it there. Another member, who reported putting 2,000,000,000+ keystrokes into akeyboard (and replacing the parts as they broke) said that he wore through his ABS doubleshot keycaps on his cherry keyboard much faster than the PBT on his IBM.
One good way to look at plastic wear is to examine spacebars. For example, the spacebar on my unicomp sees daily use, and it is nearly two years old, with no wear. I have some ABS spacebars that are showing some signs of wear after 6 months or so of use.
If you drop your keyboard, or hammer keycaps, you stand an easy chance of shattering the more brittle PBT, but this is because it is much harder, and therefore more wear resistant than ABS.
There are many legitimate reasons to have PBT, though I must say I prefer them for purely aesthetic ones as well.
Now that I think about it I'm curious why I didn't think of this before...
Is it possible to make Alps>Cherry keycap stem converters?
Waiting with baited breath on the switches.
Matias, I'm running an open-source MIDI controller where each device has a scalable number of keyswitches (currently 192 in the prototypes). I'm basing them around the cherry MX black currently.
If I can get a sample non-clicky / non-tactile switch to test with, at 800 switches for $100 it would cut the cost of the project substantially.
Awaiting with the baiting breath.
Thanks,
__red__
But if they could be modded easily to linear, then this will work out well.Waiting with baited breath on the switches.
Matias, I'm running an open-source MIDI controller where each device has a scalable number of keyswitches (currently 192 in the prototypes). I'm basing them around the cherry MX black currently.
If I can get a sample non-clicky / non-tactile switch to test with, at 800 switches for $100 it would cut the cost of the project substantially.
Awaiting with the baiting breath.
Thanks,
__red__
According to the OP, botch switches are tactile.
Thanks for the comments, everyone...
We're working on getting the web pages up as soon as possible, so you can order.
Looking forward to buying one. Please let us know here when your website is ready for ordering/payment. You will of course be offering International Shipping?
We don't currently have plans to do a linear switch. The closest we'd likely do to linear is the old Black simplified ALPS switches. They were non-clickly but gave better feedback than Cherry Browns.If the insides of Matias' switches are anything like the classic "complicated" Alps CM or even the Fuhua ("Fukka"), then you could make any switch into a linear switch by opening it up and remove the metal leaf that provided the tactile feel.
If the insides of Matias' switches are anything like the classic "complicated" Alps CM or even the Fuhua ("Fukka"), then you could make any switch into a linear switch by opening it up and remove the metal leaf that provided the tactile feel.
You can even open a mounted Alps switch without having to desolder / pop it out of the keyboard.
Okay, thanks for the detailed feedback. We're looking into it. Will keep you posted.Add me to the tally of people interested in PBT caps.
Linear switches are trivially easy to make.Unless I'm wrong in thinking Cherry is alone now in the linear switch market, my suggestion is to look into making them anyway. Lots of linear/gaming keyboards are selling, probably more than tactile models geared towards typists.
Personally, I don't care much for linear switches. But they may be a good source of revenue for you without a lot of trouble.To make revenue on them, there would also have to be a buyer that makes gaming keyboards. Matias already has a buyer for the tactile and clicky switches: itself.
To make revenue on them, there would also have to be a buyer that makes gaming keyboards. Matias already has a buyer for the tactile and clicky switches: itself.Having a batch made w/o the click spring would allow them to start dialogue with a much wider range of manufacturers. That means better exposure for their whole line of switches. Then they don't merely get the Das Keyboard types interested, but some Rosewills and Leopolds as well. I care about tactile much more, but if offering linear will get their tactile switches into more products...
From what I have seen, one of the biggest points with cloned Alps switches is to provide the feel of vintage Mac keyboards to long-term Mac users who can discriminate between what works well and what is flash. Cherry MX does not compete in that niche, but Cherry is the leader in linear switches and there is a small ecosystem around Cherry MX. If Matias would make linear switches, then because Alps does not have this reputation and ecosystem around it, any new linear Alps switch would be inferior in that market, and that would not make good business sense.I don't know if offering manufacturers a sourcing alternative for linear would carry a penalty as you state. Matias stated that making linears is dead simple, so it seemed natural to suggest offering them since they're already 110% of the way there.
Personally, I don't care much for linear switches. But they may be a good source of revenue for you without a lot of trouble.To make revenue on them, there would also have to be a buyer that makes gaming keyboards. Matias already has a buyer for the tactile and clicky switches: itself.
From what I have seen, one of the biggest points with cloned Alps switches is to provide the feel of vintage Mac keyboards to long-term Mac users who can discriminate between what works well and what is flash. Cherry MX does not compete in that niche, but Cherry is the leader in linear switches and there is a small ecosystem around Cherry MX. If Matias would make linear switches, then because Alps does not have this reputation and ecosystem around it, any new linear Alps switch would be inferior in that market, and that would not make good business sense.
What I really meant with my previous post about linear Alps was that, if you want a keyboard with linear Alps, go ahead and mod it yourself.
The AEKII nostalgia I think is overrated... that is bound to a very limited demographic.
Me and my roommate, for instance, have been using computers since the 80s but have never used a Mac keyboard before the mid-2000s (we both use Macs now). OTOH, we've used plenty of other Alps-type keyboards and when he was sitting in front of his iMac chiclet keyboard and I mentioned I was getting a "clicky" keyboard, he knew it to be an Alps board even though he didn't know the Alps name (i.e. he knew it wasn't like the IBMs he'd used, nor like the Cherry tactile boards we tried in the store a month earlier).
When I got the Dell, he was elated to try it out and now he wants something similar.
My only request is once the ball gets rolling that Matias will consider making PC versions with the clicky version of the switch - perhaps a limited edition board for the holiday season.
Wouldn't the switches that are going to be used on the PC version be similar to MX Clears?
Sorry if this has been asked already but when is the new model going to be released? Thanks.
Sorry if this has been asked already but when is the new model going to be released? Thanks.
We just finished production last week. They're being flown over this week, and we expect to launch next week.
Also, The Keyboard Company will be distributing for us in Europe. UK and German versions for PC will be available in the coming months, and possibly other European layouts. Contact The Keyboard Company if you have special requests.
They have a vendor forum here on GH, or you can contact them directly...http://geekhack.org/index.php?board=54.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?board=54.0)
For everybody else on this planet, have you thought about putting them on Ebay? Still the best place to buy anything no matter where you're located.
I'm a bit confused. Previously, you said that you were working on a Pre-Order page for the new boards. Am I to understand that, because the boards are arriving, there won't be a Pre-Order page? I live in Israel (Asia) - Will I be able to order a PC version from your site?
weird question I know, but... would be possible to see some pictures of the PCB?
Antistatic wrist straps for keyboards! Nice. Need pictures of the switches, well just more pictures.
When can we order switches?
Okay, here you go, fresh off the assembly line... :-)
Is there actually a difference between PC and MAC keyboards? I never noticed anything and it's all USB these days, right?
I never want any USB hub on my keyboard! Never, never... Yeah, it is just my opinion(whine) and I know others will be happy with hub ports on the keyboard.
I heard that HHKB pro2 with Hub is problematic with some lame BIOS.
BTW, if you can answer, I'd like to ask this: Are new Matias switches made by Forward?
Forward still keep manufacturing keyboard switches? or you uses other manufacturer?
inverted alt and super and the mac version will probably have some specific fn keys for exposé, mission control, etc. Also to get plain F1-F12 you have to press the FN key. Anyway it is going to work flawlessly on PC too I believe (if they are of the same size you can invert alt and super keys)
I wish us regular PC users can have an all white keyboard. You apple users are spoilt rotten.
Will they be available on the website or should we be contacting you mate?
I wish us regular PC users can have an all white keyboard. You apple users are spoilt rotten.
There's nothing to stop you from plugging a Mac keyboard into your PC. :-)
OK, I'm a bit lost. FK302Q/QPC have "New quiet switches" but the FK302 has "Clicky ALPS switches". Except that FK302 is the Tactile Pro 3 model number. But you can't make any more of those as Fukka switches are dead. But you have new clicky switches that have the same colour sliders (which only makes ALPS even more confusing) ... so those would be "New clicky switches" not "Clicky ALPS switches" ... unless you don't plan to sell the new clicky switches until the stocks of the Fukka are finally depleted?
If you have a lot of retailers selling your stuff, changing part numbers is extremely painful. A lot of retailers are so lazy, they often won't carry new products because they can't be bothered setting up new part numbers. Shocking, I know. The numbnuts running many brick & mortar chains are the reason Amazon is "winning".
Generally, the smaller chains are better to deal with. For example, MicroCenter are great. We've found Walmart and Staples to be indecisive and generally brain dead.
Shop where they treat you right, and let the dinosaurs die.
They don't even supply all available ISO/UK keyboards (no Das, no Qpad, no German G80-3000 with clears – had to order mine from a German retailer directly), so where on earth are you meant to get a reliable list of UK/ISO layout keyboards
Besides, that doesn't answer my question about whether you're shipping the new clicky switches yet or whether you're going to quietly introduce them into the FK302 as the stock of Fukkas runs out :)
If you have a lot of retailers selling your stuff, changing part numbers is extremely painful. A lot of retailers are so lazy, they often won't carry new products because they can't be bothered setting up new part numbers. Shocking, I know. The numbnuts running many brick & mortar chains are the reason Amazon is "winning".
Damn, you've got the same retailers as we do. Here in Australia they're all crying about us spending our money on internet sales. In fact most of the bigger retailers want the Government to stop it now.
Australia is even more difficult than Europe. Outside of online sales, it's strictly controlled by local retailers.
Once the UK and German stock sells out, Fukkas will slip into the sands of history.
For what it's worth, this page claims that they're more prone to cracking and no less resistant than ABS to turning shiny...http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php (http://www.keyboardlover.com/keycaps.php)
Would you be able to get dye sublimation? I don’t know at all how expensive it is. It is horribly expensive for our small orders here, but that applies to all PBT, kinda.I would look into Dyesub. Unicomp cranks out dyesub keycap sets all the time (economy of scale) and they put them up for like $20 retail. I imagine if you order over 1000 sets, or however many you need, you can get dyesubs run until the sheets wear out, maximizing the economies of scale.
What will the final decision about the keycaps be? How about a vote Matias, I mean what the big crowd vote for will probably sell more and give more satisfaction for the users - and they will tell their friends about it and vice versa.Am I missing something? The keyboards are already finished, and arriving. I assumed the keycap discussion was relative to separate sets for later purchase.
I think a poll for the keycaps would be nothing but good for you and the buyers. Nothing to loose, you will only gain respect and you can add 'The keycaps on this keyboard were developed with GeekHack.org - worlds biggest keyboard site, for maximum satisfaction and durability.'
my grammar and spelling are not top-notch, but I think people understand heh :p
Now I feel like a donkey. I'm so embarrassed :-[Don't be... The conversation hasn't exactly been following a straight line.
SP has alps molds, and will do PBT dyesub, but their process is relatively inefficient compared to their 2-shot process, and color matching, registration boundaries, etc. are a pretty big issue for them, so they prefer to manufacture 2-shots.I know they have ABS moulds for ALPS, but I haven't seen any PBT ALPS keycaps from them. They already use different moulds for their ABS and PBT cherry keycaps.
also, they keep 0 alps keys in stock, so everything would have to be molded fresh (the only saving grace of dyesubs for MX for them).
if we start cranking out alps compatible boards here, that could change, but that's how things stand at the moment.
I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.
Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.
Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.
So, would you prefer that the new switches came in both ALPS and Cherry MX compatible versions, or would you have Matias drop ALPS PCB and keycap compatibility entirely?
Yes, they are plug compatible with standard ALPS switches. They can be soldered into any ALPS board.
SP has alps molds, and will do PBT dyesub, but their process is relatively inefficient compared to their 2-shot process, and color matching, registration boundaries, etc. are a pretty big issue for them, so they prefer to manufacture 2-shots.I know they have ABS moulds for ALPS, but I haven't seen any PBT ALPS keycaps from them. They already use different moulds for their ABS and PBT cherry keycaps.
also, they keep 0 alps keys in stock, so everything would have to be molded fresh (the only saving grace of dyesubs for MX for them).
if we start cranking out alps compatible boards here, that could change, but that's how things stand at the moment.
I never found a cherry board that feels as nice as an alps; and that even includes the crummy 'sort of white green alps' on the 1008/1087XM boards.
But cherry boards are super-easy to mod with their galaxy of a million different group orders and sacrificial parts.
I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.
That is what as always been my opinion too. It is close to impossible to break the market and supply more stuff for a new switch than what is already available to cherry stems. Preferably, it should have the same mounting points to which would make widespread adoption much easier.
The opposite has been made. Cherry switches with ALPS-compatible stems exist.But cherry boards are super-easy to mod with their galaxy of a million different group orders and sacrificial parts.
I wonder if it's possible to make an ALPS switch with a Cherry-shaped stem end.
I vaguely recall some company in the past having done this, but I'm not sure. It could be my mind playing tricks. I'll look into it.
Matias, Get the keyboards yet?
The opposite has been made. Cherry switches with ALPS-compatible stems exist.
I vaguely recall some company in the past having done this, but I'm not sure. It could be my mind playing tricks. I'll look into it.
Matias, Get the keyboards yet?
Yes, the keyboards are in, and on their way to our US warehouse!
We checked a bunch of 'em and they feel great -- actually better than the pre-production sample I've been using.
We're aiming for launch mid-week. I'll post another update soon. Thanks to everyone who's been patiently waiting.
Can you update the webpage ahead of time so that I can preorder a PC Quiet Tactile version? I'm afraid these are going to sell out fast and I'll miss out on the first batch unless you made a ton of them.
Can you update the webpage ahead of time so that I can preorder a PC Quiet Tactile version?
Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore[/quoteYou know, I'm torn between a hatred for the redundancy of word "please", and the social conditioning of its requirement that makes its absence irrationally indicate bad manners. I can't escape the brainwashing, and this bothers me. There is much in society that I flagrantly ignore because it's stupid, but some rules cannot be so easily sidestepped.
I've been asking nicely for a preorder page for weeks!
I will not be a happy camper if the entire batch is sold in a couple hours while I'm away from the computer...
Besides, I don't get to play with this keyboard for a few more months, as I need the ISO version :) I just need another keyboard for my desk at work ... sigh, I can't even fit another one on my desk, I already have all available space consumed by three back to back.
i think hashbaz recently coined a more appropriate phrase: "nerd world problems" ;)Besides, I don't get to play with this keyboard for a few more months, as I need the ISO version :) I just need another keyboard for my desk at work ... sigh, I can't even fit another one on my desk, I already have all available space consumed by three back to back.First world problems.. :)
Don't worry, I'll be posting here first, so you'll get first dibs.Not necessary but, I assume, appreciated.
No please necessary... :)
You guys are harrassing him like the world's really going to end in December. I don't doubt that the end of the world is drawing near, but I'm fairly certain that the switches will go on sale well in advance of the termination of human life on earth.
I don't doubt that the end of the world is drawing near, but I'm fairly certain that the switches will go on sale well in advance of the termination of human life on earth.
I sincerely apologize to Matias, iMav, or anyone else I might have offended.
I would be amazed if any business was offended by excitement and enthusiasm for their products.
I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.
I guess it's one of those demand issues – too many people are content to learn ANSI to increase their variety.
Excellent, thank you.I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.
Yes, we have 3 non-US layouts currently on order...Feel free to post requests for others.
- PC - UK
- PC - German
- PC - Nordic (Sweden, Finland, Norway)
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!
Italian? i know, it never going to happen...
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!
Sorry, we don't do Cherry. :-)Italian? i know, it never going to happen...
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here. If more expresss interest, you may get your wish. Are you Mac or PC?
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here. If more expresss interest, you may get your wish. Are you Mac or PC?
I'm curious, what makes you so resolute against Cherry?
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here. If more expresss interest, you may get your wish. Are you Mac or PC?
I'm in contact with the coordinator of a very large Italian Mac community (http://www.tevac.com/), how many people do you need to take the italian version into consideration? I bet that if they start talking about mechanical keyboards with Italian layout you'll be flooded pretty quickly
How about Mac layouts? There's a guy who wants a Cherry MX blue Macintosh keyboard for his parents, in Nordic layout. There is no such keyboard!
Sorry, we don't do Cherry. :-)
Well, you're the 2nd Italian I've seen here. If more expresss interest, you may get your wish. Are you Mac or PC?
I'm in contact with the coordinator of a very large Italian Mac community (http://www.tevac.com/), how many people do you need to take the italian version into consideration? I bet that if they start talking about mechanical keyboards with Italian layout you'll be flooded pretty quickly
Normally, we'd need to get an order for 500 pcs., but since we're already doing those other countries, 200 pcs would be enough.
I would encourage them to contact The Keyboard Company, as they are handling our European sales.
Dvorak. I'm one, can we get 499 others?I'm sorry if I have missed this but will there be different layouts? Not US-only.
Yes, we have 3 non-US layouts currently on order...Feel free to post requests for others.
- PC - UK
- PC - German
- PC - Nordic (Sweden, Finland, Norway)
I miss the big enter key so much :( but probably ANSI is better for coding...
What harm do USB ports actually do?
The glossy case looks really nice actually.
Besides, the switches will be sold separately
And the switches are not orange
Okay, the pages are up...
http://matias.ca/quietpro (http://matias.ca/quietpro)
The press release will go out tomorrow, but you heard it hear first. :-)
Thanks for all the positive feedback... :-)Why don't you just do a kit for the MAC version - keycaps and software. You could also do it for the
We do ship to Australia.
UPS Ground in the US is cheaper than US Post (even though it's quicker) because our warehouse is run by UPS, so there are efficiencies that lead to a discount.
We're considering doing a PC version of the loud clicky model, if there's enough interest.
Just checked, found only this one:
Just checked, found only this one:How did that guy get hold of the keyboard? How do we know that it is not just a Tactile Pro - Silver and Black edition, with the slider and click leaf exchanged with those from another Alps switch?
Sound quality is terrible (heavy lossy compression) – on the one hand it's nice to know that it's not actually quiet (seems to have a healthy clack to it), but at the same time I was actually hoping for something really quiet so that it's less obtrusive at work (feel but not hear).
Has anyone been able to find any user reviews? I've only found corporate type, homogenized reviews.A Google search turns up about 500 repeats of the engadget announcement.
I have a kind of love/hate relationaship with these clicky keyboards. I love the look of them, and I love the feel, but I don’t like the huge number pads which force me to place my trackpad like five feet over to the right.The review should be interesting :D
(snip)
But some of you work in offices, or get startled by the sound of your own typing (for the latter, I recommend less coffee. Or more scotch during working hours).
^ All those boards in the video are fairly quiet when compared to a clicky switch (e.g. white alps, blue alps, cherry blues, buckling spring, etc.). Honestly, I think the true test will be a side-by-side comparison with a dampened cream alps board...both for sound comparisons and key feel comparisons.
^ All those boards in the video are fairly quiet when compared to a clicky switch (e.g. white alps, blue alps, cherry blues, buckling spring, etc.). Honestly, I think the true test will be a side-by-side comparison with a dampened cream alps board...both for sound comparisons and key feel comparisons.
But notice the Matias was quieter still.
Matias: IMO since one of your key selling arguments is the 'world's quietest mechanical keyboard', it will be good to put all the know switches side by side inside of an actual quit room. Providing actual dB charts side by side, will be very interesting.
I will love to see it against the Topre S switches
Please enlighten me with the "official" definition of "mechanical keyboards".Matias: IMO since one of your key selling arguments is the 'world's quietest mechanical keyboard', it will be good to put all the know switches side by side inside of an actual quit room. Providing actual dB charts side by side, will be very interesting.
That would be nice to see, but I don't think Matias is necessarily obliged to try any harder than others in this respect. Not when other mfg's are calling their products "Silent" (i.e. zero noise, no sound) which we know is false.
Topre isn't mechanical. That most mechanical keyboard fans also like Topre does not put that switch in the mechanical category. Besides, if Topre is "mechanical" then so are most other keyboards (everything that has moving parts).
Please enlighten me with the "official" definition of "mechanical keyboards".Obviously the only one we're going to get is an unofficial, working definition. For now, its safe to say the definition of "mechanical keyboard" is *not* one that hinges on the mundane definition of "mechanical" which includes anything with moving parts. It follows that the definition is specialized and confined to our favorite genre or else it would have to include regular rubber domes (RDs).
Sure they can say whatever they want. But everything is base on credibility and providing the facts. Like most geeks I work with facts and not with words ;-)
premising that I'm fine with a pinch of marketing-ese, you could just replace "the world's quietest..." with "the quietest mechanical keyboard we've ever built". Less marketing, more facts :) Haters will stop hating. Lovers will keep loving.
Even so, credibility will come from how much people like the Matias switches. That's also how Apple can sell chiclet keyboards and still remain a 'good' designer. Years ago, Apple's credibility was near rock bottom WRT input devices (people hated the mushy keyboards, round mice, etc) and I'm sure that history is one reason why Matias is still in business.
Here's a fact: Designing input devices is an art, and a number of us have gathered here to reject art that became shoddily reproduced to the point of absurdity. We are connoisseurs who will probably never see our tastes reflected in most computer users. So focusing on a definition of "mechanical" with the widest acceptance will be of no help to anyone, especially when what we're really after is that which subjectively feels and sounds good.
:cool:
I think you are leaving out Topre; as far as I know the silent versions are also silent on the upstroke.
Since when were Cherry Browns ever marketed as being a silent switch? They are listed in the specifications as being "ergonomic."
Also, you can't really blame Cherry as a whole. If anything, the end result is dependent on what the manufacturers do with the switch. You can take 3 different keyboards with the same switch and get three different noise levels. I think this is great because an OEM can make the board as silent or as noisy as requested.
Silent mechanical key architecture for superior tactility and faster response
The Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Stealth Edition’s mechanical key architecture provides a distinctive yet silent tactile feedback in form of a light pronounced tap to your fingers giving you an entirely new feel on your gaming keyboard. With an optimized actuation force of 45g and a reduced actuation distance of 2mm, the Razer BlackWidow Ultimate Stealth Edition’s keys allow actuation of your commands faster than any other standard keyboard.
I just got mine in the mail today and i am disappointed. I clearly ordered the PC keyboard (the black one) but they sent me a PC keyboard but silver in color (the MAC color but PC keys). It is not the color that i ordered. Now i have to decide if i want to go thru the hassle of getting the right keyboard color or just keep this one. The keys themselves feel nice and easy to press. It is a lot quieter and if i have time later i will post a video.
PART NUMBER: FK302 120600010 FK 313
Thanks.
It's very nice but i just was looking forward to that black one. :D
The only complaints I've read so far in the comments of blogs is "$150?!? for a keyboard?" but these same folks have no issues dropping $3k on a PC or TV.....
I will see when Matias gets back to me regarding exchanging this for the right keyboard that i ordered; they sent me silver and i ordered black. So far, wrong keyboard and a key already giving me problems. Not too happy. :'(
I got the keyboard today and the price is a bit high for this kind of keyboard. I have some minor issues with the build quality (the left Shift button sticks already). I will see when Matias gets back to me regarding exchanging this for the right keyboard that i ordered; they sent me silver and i ordered black. So far, wrong keyboard and a key already giving me problems. Not too happy. :'(
I definitely appreciate it. I think it is wonderful that a keyboard company has a presence on this website. I have dealt with Matias before and they have always been first class. This was just a glitch and i am sure things will work out. ;D
i think a huge congratulations is in order for matias and everyone he's working with. it's HARD to launch a product, and this launch has hopefully gone as successfully as one can go; lots of press (although of course i wish these bloggers would cite geekhack more often ;D), lots of awareness, and hopefully a lot of orders right out of the gate. currently baiting my breath for the switch packs and datasheets. can't want to design a TKL around these switches :D :D :D
FYI, Diatec (Filco) has posted photos of the new switch on their web site...
http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=1292 (http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=1292)
Nice....I like that quote, "No ghost in this machine". 8)
Nice....I like that quote, "No ghost in this machine". 8)
how can't you love the japaneses?
Nice....I like that quote, "No ghost in this machine". 8)
how can't you love the japaneses?
Nice....I like that quote, "No ghost in this machine". 8)
how can't you love the japaneses?
That quote is from http://matias.ca/tactilepro3/ (http://matias.ca/tactilepro3/) – credit where it's due etc. :-)
If you're in Windows, press Ctrl+F, or on a Mac, Cmd+F – this handy-dandy feature common to many applications (including browsers) allows you to search for things, generally text.
actually, it was Ghost in the shell (at least that's how it reached our market).
Just an update: The good people at Matias have just delivered me the keyboard that I ordered. The did it quickly too! Kudos to Matias for fixing a mistake in a quick manner. Greatly appreciated! Love the black keyboard but what i love just as much as the keys are the 3 USB ports and only one plug needed to plug it in. It is great! :D
What are the official names of the new switches? I don't think "Matias Orange" quite works any more :)
Are the two switches the same, i.e. differing only in the presence or absence of folds in the tactile/click leaf?
One thing that BW did that was brilliant was providing a cut out on the packaging so you can type on a few keys to see how they will feel.
Matias do these switches need breaking in? When I first got the keyboard I wasn't totally satisfied but after around 18 hours the switches are starting to feel awesome. I'm not sure if it's the same thing Cherry Blues go through; but it's really starting to feel good now :)
So far typing like my life depends on it my avg from 120-130wpm has jumped to 135-145wpm.
Quote from: MatiasI gotta say, Razer is MUCH better at package design than the Das guys. The Das Box Art looked like it was done by a Chinese engineer.
One thing that BW did that was brilliant was providing a cut out on the packaging so you can type on a few keys to see how they will feel.
I really am curious how the clicky switches will compare.
I'm hoping "Gatlin Gun" territory. It has to resonant like that through the walls. People need to feel it out on the street as they walk by the office.
On the Quiet Switch, the stem has little rubber dampeners, and the tactile leaf is held stationary.
On the Click Switch, there are no dampeners and the tactile leaf is held loosely to allow it to click.
My Zenith pings like an angelic choir.I'm hoping "Gatlin Gun" territory. It has to resonant like that through the walls. People need to feel it out on the street as they walk by the office.
If you haven't used one yet, you need to try an old Northgate with clicky whites, especially the Evolution model. My old Evolution had an all-metal case with a plastic top that sounded like someone was firing an AK-47 in 52 gallon drum. The sound was epic; not really my thing but epic. Hands down the loudest keyboard I have ever used.
When can we expect the clicky board?
I'm ready.Show Image(http://www.cdnerd.com/images/fm202.jpg)
When can we expect the clicky board?The clicky board for Mac is available now.
Where? I don't see it on the site...
Does ordering a TP3 now guarantee that we will get the new switch?
I would suggest that Matias get a relatively lightweight linear switch tested (make sure it feels good etc) with the idea that it would be producible, even if not in put into production initially. Hopefully once Matias switches become popular this will cease being a chicken-and-egg problem, as companies could say "we love the tactile and clicky switches, can we have linears too?" and the answer would be an easy "yes"...
Otherwise, no company could use the switch for any board where they plan to offer both linear and tactile switches (e.g. Leopold, Diatec, Cherry), and of course linear is becoming popular. (No idea why, but there you go ;-)
(I don't know whether it would really just be as simple as removing the tactile leaf, because that would be easy to adjust manufacturing for. Probably not, as people prefer reds for their lighter spring.)
Does ordering a TP3 now guarantee that we will get the new switch?
Just wondering, since those switches have transparent housings, would a backlit keyboard be cheaper to do than with Cherry MX?
I'm not so sure, unless you were to use more powerful LEDs inside the switch. It's enough to light the window on the Caps Lock key, but I don't know if there's enough light there to fully backlight a keycap. It would be nice though, because I'd love a backlit board with these switches.
My Zenith pings like an angelic choir.
I'm going to be buying 200 of each switch most likely. I only need 104 of each type. If you pay for shipping I will give you a few of each type that I have spares of.My Zenith pings like an angelic choir.
One of the most beautiful descriptions of a switch I have ever heard.
Anyone interested in a GB where we split the switches? I want 1 or 2 to test.
I don't know if it would be cheaper, but the transparent housings give you more evenly spread illumination vs. one superbright LED illuminating one spot on the key (what you get on Cherry backlits).
I don't know if it would be cheaper, but the transparent housings give you more evenly spread illumination vs. one superbright LED illuminating one spot on the key (what you get on Cherry backlits).
Matias, is the LED on the PCB, or actually integrated into the switch itself?
The nice part about being able to illuminate one spot on the key is that you can directly light under the label, instead of the entire key.
The nice part about being able to illuminate one spot on the key is that you can directly light under the label, instead of the entire key.
The nice part about being able to illuminate one spot on the key is that you can directly light under the label, instead of the entire key.
That's the whole problem – backlit keyboards either have weird legends where keys with two symbols have them side by side instead of one above the other (since only one of them will be lit correctly) or they have one of the two symbols poorly lit. The single point of light from the LED doesn't work all that well.
Okay, better late than never, we finished our sound comparison widget, so you can hear the difference between our keyboards and typical Cherry boards...
http://matias.ca/quietpro/mac (http://matias.ca/quietpro/mac)
For Cherry Brown, we used a Das Keyboard. For Cherry Blue, we used a Razer BlackWidow.
Thanks for the comments! Glad you like the recordings. We're pretty happy with how they turned out. We'd considered doing videos, but I think the interactive widget works better for comparing sound levels.
I'm pretty sure the Tactile Pro recording was of the new switch, since I don't hear the residual Fuhua ringing in the recordings.
The keycaps are ABS, but not infilled. We're looking into PBT, but likely won't have them before the end of the year. My next trip to Asia is in December, so we'll be visiting/evaluating some vendor factories then.
Regarding case materials, I should point out that Das and the others are all ABS -- which you all appear to hate for keycaps, but are fine with for cases. :) Our cases are polycarbonate, which is a harder material and much more resistant to scratching. That's why ABS keyboards are always textured or painted. Polycarbonate is also more expensive than ABS.
We're still on track to start selling the switches next month. Will keep you posted.
Thanks again for your interest.
My next trip to Asia is in December, so we'll be visiting/evaluating some vendor factories then.
Will you be selling the keycaps separate from the keyboard? There really isn't anyone making readily available after market alps keycaps....let alone PBT ones.
Will you be selling the keycaps separate from the keyboard? There really isn't anyone making readily available after market alps keycaps....let alone PBT ones.
Yes, we're working that out now. If you have any specific requests, please post them here (colours, printing vs. blank, Mac vs. PC).
I'm pretty sure the Tactile Pro recording was of the new switch, since I don't hear the residual Fuhua ringing in the recordings.
My only two requests are key caps with a PC layout and dye subliminated printing (i.e. no lasered legends or laser infilled legends...they wear off/dirty too quickly).
Or you can learn to type like you have a pair and use blank keycaps. There - problem solved.
I agree - Matias' recordings sound very accurate to me as well. Nice job!
So far, I'd say my experience with my Quiet Pro is pretty much in line with the Engadget review. I'm quite pleased with the compromises overall. I find the tactility of the Quiet Pro's switches to actually be quite good. To me, the compromise seems to be more about slightly reduced key travel, similar to the feel of putting rubber O-rings on Cherry switches to quiet down the "clack" when bottoming out. However, the way the dampening "bumpers" on the Quiet Pro work definitely has a less noticeable effect than the O-ring solution. There's more "give" when bottoming out, so I'd say if you're a heavy-handed typist like me, the very bottom of the keypress feels similar to a high quality rubber dome "landing". (The tactile point, of course, feels NOTHING like a rubber dome, just to be clear...that part definitely still has the ALPS spirit intact!)
When comparing the tactility vs. sound tradeoff against my Cherry Brown boards, the Quiet Pro wins, no contest, largely because I do tend to type fairly hard, so for me Brown switches have very little tactility and actually "clack" pretty noisily. If you have a very light touch, then I think the sound difference on the Browns would be less noticeable (and maybe the tactility would be sufficient), but in my experience it is VERY difficult not to bottom out when typing on either Brown or Red Cherry switches.
Regarding build quality, I'd rank the Quiet Pro (glossy black PC version) slightly below Das Keyboard and Filco overall, mainly because the plastic casing doesn't feel quite as sturdy or premium and neither the flip-out feet nor the back edge of the Quiet Pro have anti-skid rubber on them. It also feels slightly lighter weight overall, though admittedly I haven't taken the time to actually put it on the scale yet. That said, I haven't noticed any pinging or creaking / flexing problems, so the Quiet Pro is certainly sturdy enough in a practical sense. One thing I am impressed by build-wise is how smooth and rattle-free the space bar and other stabilized keys are on the Quiet Pro, however.
If you have any specific requests, please post them here (colours, printing vs. blank, Mac vs. PC).I would like to see keycap sets that are two-tone, as you would see on an AT101W (putty/beige). Black keys w/charcoal modifiers, tan/brown, etc.
Low-profile white keycaps on the QP/TP might make the Apple-like styling gel better.
Low-profile white keycaps on the QP/TP might make the Apple-like styling gel better.
Please we need to separate far away from so-called "Apple Styling"...
Yes, we're working that out now. If you have any specific requests, please post them here (colours, printing vs. blank, Mac vs. PC).
In regards to the dampening found the opposite to be the case. I recently put O-rings on my MX Brown board and didn't notice a whole lot of difference. If anything it made the board feel WORSE, and didn't reduce the clacking as much as I expected. I guess its partially because I had been using a AEKII at work for about a month or so, and the ALPS dampening is better...I find the internal dampening on the Quiet Switches to be far more effective and noticeable than OP-rings...and closer to the AEKII.
Yes, we're working that out now. If you have any specific requests, please post them here (colours, printing vs. blank, Mac vs. PC).
Will you be selling the keycaps separate from the keyboard? There really isn't anyone making readily available after market alps keycaps....let alone PBT ones.
Yes, we're working that out now. If you have any specific requests, please post them here (colours, printing vs. blank, Mac vs. PC).
My only two requests are key caps with a PC layout and dye subliminated printing (i.e. no lasered legends or laser infilled legends...they wear off/dirty too quickly).
When you say dye sub, do you mean that you want white/beige keys with dark legends? You can't dye sub a legend that's lighter than the key.
I do wonder how good UV printing, as that's vibrant (far nicer than Cherry white-on-black lasered) and doesn't have the decal look — looks great, but I'm concerned about longevity. Think Topre, but with white instead of dark gold legends. I don't know that Topre use the same technique as the non-decal-look Acer and Dell laptops, as I've never seen vivid white Topre legends, but there's a suggestion that you could do what Topre do but with white paint instead of gold. (Whether that would still stain like laser, I don't know.)
Low-profile white keycaps on the QP/TP might make the Apple-like styling gel better.
Please we need to separate far away from so-called "Apple Styling"...Show Image(http://www.vectronicsappleworld.com/collection/articlepics/g4imac/snap26.jpg)
Too late :) Notice the Apple logo in the top-center. I don't think Apple cares.
While we're talking about keycaps, a Colemak set would be nifty to have.
Please we need to separate far away from so-called "Apple Styling". I'm sure Apple would love nothing better than to sue Matias for every cent he owns because he dare's to show the Apple Styling anywhere on his product. Also trying to copy any of Apple's designs in previous keyboards would certainly get the million dollar lawyers all hot and bothered.
If we made them available blank, would there be any interest in having a kit that included a spray-on coating, so that you could dry-transfer on your own keycap art, and then spray on a protective coat? You could buy pre-made Letraset lettering, or make your own...I put transfers on the front of some of my thick pbt keys (lazertran wet decals). Even doing just a few, it was almost impossible to get them consistently positioned. I'd hate to have to do an entire keyboard.
Well, WASD should be able to laser pretty much anything you give them, but somehow I doubt that would be the most cost effective way. But for custom orders it would be nice.
Imsto does pretty much anything Dye Sublimation related. Same as for WASD though.
PBT + coating wouldn’t be that sought after, I think, that destroys the whole purpose of PBT, the indestructibility.
Qwerkeys makes Cherry MX caps... TechKeys designs caps that Signature Plastics in the US then manufactures. SP happens to have Alps molds. KeyCapsDirect is one of their sites/fronts. WASD laser engraves or etches ABS caps manufactured overseas for Cherry MX switches.
We as a community buy a ton of SP keycaps. We've also bought a few Qwerkeys.
What spray on protective coat were you going to recommend? Does it change the look or feel of the keys?
Sounds like Signature Plastics and/or TechKeys are the best fit.
Well, WASD should be able to laser pretty much anything you give them, but somehow I doubt that would be the most cost effective way. But for custom orders it would be nice.
Imsto does pretty much anything Dye Sublimation related. Same as for WASD though.
PBT + coating wouldn’t be that sought after, I think, that destroys the whole purpose of PBT, the indestructibility.
WASD is pretty close to boutique quantity output and is only setup for MX, he's not likely to go for this. I don't know if Imsto would do new molds or not, but he has niiiice PBT.
signature plastics/keycapsdirect would probably be the best bet for options/flexibility. They seem like really cool people.
SP's got a number of fonts... many people aren't happy with all of them. I'm willing to bet people ask you to use the not quite done yet Cherry replica font that has been worked on.
Can your new switches be used to replace XM switches on an existing keyboard? I have in mind a conversion project for a SiiG MiniTouch which comes with white XM switches.
Can your new switches be used to replace XM switches on an existing keyboard? I have in mind a conversion project for a SiiG MiniTouch which comes with white XM switches.
Yes.
This! Please clarify? Compatibility with MX plate mounting or pcb only?
How close are we to the release of the bare switches?
Yes. Interested in the clicky alps (not quiet)
How close are we to the release of the bare switches?
Yes. Interested in the clicky alps (not quiet)
Look!!! A typing competition using entirely clicky Alps switches...
:p
Is there any plans on releasing a Mac Quiet Pro with Nordic layout? I would kill for that keyboard! :D
I don't think SP will do a one-off keycap run!! We only get SP caps from group buys.
How different are the Mac and PC Nordic legends anyway? I know that Mac and PC British legends are perversely different.
Ok, no plans on making any ISO-style quiet pro's for mac then ? German/UK layout doesn't really matter to me, as I don't really look at the board anyway, just want an ISO layout. And I really want that Mac function layer.Is there any plans on releasing a Mac Quiet Pro with Nordic layout? I would kill for that keyboard! :D
Well, if Signature Plastics can do custom keycaps for you, it should be fairly easy to transform one of the PC models into Mac. We are doing Nordic for PC.
Ok, no plans on making any ISO-style quiet pro's for mac then ? German/UK layout doesn't really matter to me, as I don't really look at the board anyway, just want an ISO layout. And I really want that Mac function layer.Is there any plans on releasing a Mac Quiet Pro with Nordic layout? I would kill for that keyboard! :D
Well, if Signature Plastics can do custom keycaps for you, it should be fairly easy to transform one of the PC models into Mac. We are doing Nordic for PC.
Yes, that's what I mean, and with the fn-key where the insert would be, etc. Would be really temped to buy one if that could be done.Ok, no plans on making any ISO-style quiet pro's for mac then ? German/UK layout doesn't really matter to me, as I don't really look at the board anyway, just want an ISO layout. And I really want that Mac function layer.Is there any plans on releasing a Mac Quiet Pro with Nordic layout? I would kill for that keyboard! :D
Well, if Signature Plastics can do custom keycaps for you, it should be fairly easy to transform one of the PC models into Mac. We are doing Nordic for PC.
If by "Mac function layer" you mean the function keys, we could modify a PC model for you to give you those.
I don't think SP will do a one-off keycap run!! We only get SP caps from group buys.I think you can get single keys for $65 or something like that. I'd say it's primarily for testing your sample before a production or GB starts.
How different are the Mac and PC Nordic legends anyway? I know that Mac and PC British legends are perversely different.
If by "Mac function layer" you mean the function keys, we could modify a PC model for you to give you those.Yes, that's what I mean, and with the fn-key where the insert would be, etc. Would be really temped to buy one if that could be done.
I'm definitely interested in a big 'ol bag 'o switches, but I'd also be up for keycaps. Colour / printing is unimportant, but I'd be after a set of odd profiles as they'd be for an ergo build - I'd probably want middle row profiles only and a bunch of 1.5 and 2x width caps rather than a full key set. Of course, I know that's a lot to ask.
Simon
Just stumbled on this August review of the Tactile Pro 3:
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4858/matias_tactile_pro_3_0_mechanical_keyboard_review/index1.html
Page 5 has a whole batch of neat photos including the various PCBs and of course the new click switches up close. Which look the same as the new tactile switches ;-)
Gets a 94% review, too.
Are the quiet pro sold in any B&M stores on display?*cough* cut a deal with MicroCenter *cough*
I'd definitely like to try one out before shelling out $150..
Are the quiet pro sold in any B&M stores on display?*cough* cut a deal with MicroCenter *cough*
I'd definitely like to try one out before shelling out $150..
Honestly?? I've never seen a keyboard's keys pulled off in a retail environment.Quote from: MatiasAs for MicroCenter, while they sell almost all of our other keyboards, the buyer decided that they had enough mechanical keyboards and chose not to carry the Quiet Pro. Needless to say, we think this was a dumb decision, but buyers are buyers.
Which is ridiculous because my local MicroCenter has only CM Storm and the Matias Tactile Pro 3. The real problem retailers are going to face is not providing an open environment for trying out these keyboards. I can somewhat understand it as I find two issues: 1) Stupid mother ****ers who steal the keycaps off the boards ruining it for everyone and 2) Retailers afraid that you will try a keyboard in store and then leave and buy it online for possibly cheaper.
yes at Fry's I routinely see keys stripped from boards - sometimes reorganized on keyboards in various 'curse' words. They used to have Cherry MX boards out but that came to a halt.Fry's zoo-like environment is different even among retail chains, and its the complete opposite of a small computer store.
It's very difficult... for retailers too afraid to put these keyboards out on display for fear of vandalism - at the same time - the must be irked by people who buy a keyboard, use it for a couple weeks and then return it; but these people weren't able to TRY them out to avoid that issue.
Apple doesn't really do a Nordic layout. They do country-specific keyboards, so how different it is from PC Nordic will depend on the country.
Apple doesn't really do a Nordic layout. They do country-specific keyboards, so how different it is from PC Nordic will depend on the country.
Don't know if you've seen this:
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=978
Converter kit from Swedish to Danish/Norwegian. Nice workaround.
When will switches be available? Will they be this year or early next?
Cool sell 7bit a box please :)
^Oh no...what happened? Why'd the ship date get pushed?
^Oh no...what happened? Why'd the ship date get pushed?
I'm terribly sorry, but as it turned out, the factory didn't make enough switches to accommodate our next keyboard production run, so we actually can't start selling them in bulk yet.
The new keyboards have been selling extremely well. We've had to place two extra orders just to keep up, and this has cut into the switch supply.
Sorry for the delay.
^Oh no...what happened? Why'd the ship date get pushed?
I'm terribly sorry, but as it turned out, the factory didn't make enough switches to accommodate our next keyboard production run, so we actually can't start selling them in bulk yet.
The new keyboards have been selling extremely well. We've had to place two extra orders just to keep up, and this has cut into the switch supply.
Sorry for the delay.
No need to apologize...it's great that the boards have been selling so well. Are you still set on not making a new tactile pro for the PC crowd and only offering the tactile pro for Macs?
First world troubles... ;) Still looking forward to their availability
We haven't signed up as many resellers as we were hoping -- but that's largely due to the fact that the sales have been so strong that we haven't had enough keyboards to supply more resellers. Certainly a good problem to have (if you had your choice of problems).
By the way, after about a month of ownership, I'm very pleased with the board. It's met my expectations in every way and it's going to be my daily driver at work for the forseeable future. The switches are fantastic and the USB hub has been super handy to have. The shape/design of the case is nice & somewhat unique, and despite the back tilt legs not having any rubberized parts, I have not had any problems with it sliding or moving around. It's the worthiest successor to the AEKII I've found. So my compliments on creating a really fantastic board, Matias! :cool:
The only part that isn't absolutely perfect in my opinion is the glossy black case. :confused: Don't get me wrong, It's not that it looks cheap, or that the paint job isn't quality (it is); but it shows fingerprints and dust (of which there is a lot of in my office) like crazy. I'm considering painting it matte black or silver like the mac version. Just need to decide the best way to go about that and have it look good. And hope that I don't have any problems with it in the future since that will certainly void whatever warranty you have on it. I was tempted to purchase the mac version because of the silver/black color scheme, but I use it on PCs exclusively at work.
could we get some geekhack preorders for switches in? i really really don't want to miss these :)
Is TKL in the plans yet? Sign me up for a European blank PBT quiet version ;D.
I want to see ALPS POM more than PBT. Yes, I love PBT, but given how hard ALPS keycaps can be to remove, I want to see POM, because that will make it easy to replace/fix/whatever the keycaps. Blank POM is preferable, but I'd go with whatever.
I want to see POM, because that will make it easy to replace/fix/whatever the keycaps.
ALPS keycaps can be really hard to remove. POM has a much lower coefficient of friction (It can be hard to get the stabilizers to fit without falling out!) so (in theory) the keycaps would be easier to remove.I want to see POM, because that will make it easy to replace/fix/whatever the keycaps.
How?
o.o
POM is slippery and cool :cool:I want to see POM, because that will make it easy to replace/fix/whatever the keycaps.
How?
o.o
News about when will switches be available?
Are you giong to sell both the quiet tactile and the clicky?
I'm interested, but will the minimum order be any less than eight hundred pieces? A packet of 150 or 200 would be nice, as it's enough to re-switch almost any conventional board with loads of extras in case you mess up repeatedly.
We'll also be making keycaps available. Ours are ABS, but you can get PBT caps from Signature Plastics (SP). Unfortunately, the SP caps are shorter than ours, so they are probably not suitable for a direct replacement on our boards -- you'll see the switches exposed from underneath.
Have you considered making blank abs keycaps?
Are the ABS keycaps you will be offering pad printed, double shot, or dye subliminated?
Still surprised that no major group buy has bee made yet. We all need a couple of switches to test, admit it.
Yes, they'll be sold in packs of 200, shipped in a 7x7x3 inch padded box. This keeps the shipping cost down, while ensuring that there are plenty of spare switches for any individual keyboard project.
North American orders will be shipped from Canada or the US. International orders will be shipped from Taiwan.
We'll also be making keycaps available. Ours are ABS, but you can get PBT caps from Signature Plastics (SP). Unfortunately, the SP caps are shorter than ours, so they are probably not suitable for a direct replacement on our boards -- you'll see the switches exposed from underneath.
Matias, when are you going to stop teasing us!!!
Matias, when are you going to stop teasing us!!!
Not much longer. :-)
The switches will go on sale this month.
Ooooooh... Can't wait to see these :pMatias, when are you going to stop teasing us!!!
Not much longer. :-)
The switches will go on sale this month.
Matias, when are you going to stop teasing us!!!
Not much longer. :-)
The switches will go on sale this month.
Excellent. Is the original price estimate (100$ for 800ct) still accurate?
In order to reduce the shipping cost, we've reduced the package size to 200 pcs. That's more than enough for any single keyboard project, with extra switches to cover mistakes. It will sell for $40 + shipping.
In order to reduce the shipping cost, we've reduced the package size to 200 pcs. That's more than enough for any single keyboard project, with extra switches to cover mistakes. It will sell for $40 + shipping.
Will they be shipping from Canadia exclusively or will there be a cheaper shipping option for us to the south?
The US shipments will go from Canada initially -- the cost difference is small. International shipments will go from Taiwan.
Where would we expect to buy the switches? I couldn't find them online. I suppose they are not for sale... yet?
Where would we expect to buy the switches? I couldn't find them online. I suppose they are not for sale... yet?
I noticed 7bit has them for sale over on deskthority.
It appears more like they're doing a group buy for when they do go on sale, perhaps to save on shipping across the pond. Matias said they'd be on sale sometime this month, so I keep checking the site. So far, no joy.
Unless he's somehow got hold of some apart from what you get in a MQP...
Are just the quiet switches going on sale? I'd like to buy a pack of the clicky switches used on the TP4 if possible.
Are just the quiet switches going on sale? I'd like to buy a pack of the clicky switches used on the TP4 if possible.
x2
Looking to convert a Zenith to clicky switches and replace the switches in m SGI.
Are just the quiet switches going on sale? I'd like to buy a pack of the clicky switches used on the TP4 if possible.
x2
Looking to convert a Zenith to clicky switches and replace the switches in m SGI.
Both switch types will be going on sale.
Everyone who PM-ed me will be getting an email soon, to arrange their switch order. It's looking like they may sell out. If they do sell out, we'll postpone the formal announcement until we get more stock.
Thanks to all who expressed interested... :)
Do you know when the Mini Matias Tactile will be shipping? Is it going to be next week? Sorry to bug you but i am really anxious. ;D
The wait is most likely worth it though! Thanks for your great costumer service. It has made me a loyal customer. :D
Once someone buys a box of switches could they sell/ship me a few (3-4)? I want to see how difficult it is to convert the QuietPro switches to Linear. The goal is to see if I can get them to mimic an Apple //e linear switch. I think the dampened ones could get me closer to the original feel.
Ironically, the originally //e switches are not Alps but they are one of my favorites. Unfortunately I think part of the magic is the material selection in the keycaps/board itself.
Where can I find the specifications (exact measurements) for the keycaps needed for this switch?
I wrote to Signature Plastics and they said they didn't have any technical drawings or exact measurements available for Alps caps.
I should clarify, I'm asking because I'm interested in printing my own. I'm building a couple of customised MIDIBox sequencers (http://ucapps.de/midibox_seq_lite.html), and want keycaps with inlays to make them usable in the dark. I've access to a 3D printer with low enough tolerances that it seems like a feasible path.
I wrote to Signature Plastics and they said they didn't have any technical drawings or exact measurements available for Alps caps.
I should clarify, I'm asking because I'm interested in printing my own. I'm building a couple of customised MIDIBox sequencers (http://ucapps.de/midibox_seq_lite.html), and want keycaps with inlays to make them usable in the dark. I've access to a 3D printer with low enough tolerances that it seems like a feasible path.
You have two keyboards for the PC but both use the silent switch, will you be have the clicky switch for those keyboards in the future?
You have two keyboards for the PC but both use the silent switch, will you be have the clicky switch for those keyboards in the future?
Yes, I expect we will, but I can't say when. We have our hands full right now, just trying to fill the demand for the quiet switch models.
You have two keyboards for the PC but both use the silent switch, will you be have the clicky switch for those keyboards in the future?
Yes, I expect we will, but I can't say when. We have our hands full right now, just trying to fill the demand for the quiet switch models.
Thanks for the reply. I love clicky switches and I have no interest in switches that don't click. So once you come out with a clicky keyboard for the PC, I'm there. Absolutely love the sound of the Tactile Pro.
I should clarify, I'm asking because I'm interested in printing my own. I'm building a couple of customised MIDIBox sequencers (http://ucapps.de/midibox_seq_lite.html), and want keycaps with inlays to make them usable in the dark. I've access to a 3D printer with low enough tolerances that it seems like a feasible path.
I should clarify, I'm asking because I'm interested in printing my own. I'm building a couple of customised MIDIBox sequencers (http://ucapps.de/midibox_seq_lite.html), and want keycaps with inlays to make them usable in the dark. I've access to a 3D printer with low enough tolerances that it seems like a feasible path.
I've done this. It's not only feasible but awesome. I'm printing hexagonal key caps and the stem fits in the Mattias switches perfectly every time.
It was not possible to 3d print caps using fdm for cherry mx.
I'm not sure how much time you're prepared to put into doing 3D keycap drawings yourself, but I can certainly send you a bag of sample caps, if you want to do that. Also, note that our caps are taller than the ones SP sells.
I've done this. It's not only feasible but awesome. I'm printing hexagonal key caps and the stem fits in the Mattias switches perfectly every time.
I'm not sure how much time you're prepared to put into doing 3D keycap drawings yourself, but I can certainly send you a bag of sample caps, if you want to do that. Also, note that our caps are taller than the ones SP sells.
I'm prepared to spend the time that it takes, but the shorter the better :) It's not so much the drawing itself I'm worried about, really, as it is getting the measurements of the stem right. I've drawn something up based on the cap from an Apple Extended II, but I'm not sure if it's right. Suppose I should just print it out and test it.
I just did a test print. It's quite rough but it fits and comes back off, without the hollowing. I need to make some adjustments to both model and the printer settings I'm using.How much $$$ did your 3D printer cost?
When I'm happy with the results I'll release them to the world. I've not yet decided if I want to use the printed ones directly, or make molds from them and cast copies, but this should serve as a nice starting point for anyone with similar plans.I always assumed you would make molds then you could cast a whole bunch of keycaps all at once for mass producing your midibox.
Sorry if this has been asked before, but how do these switches compare to cherries, especially if you press off-center ? Are they smoother or do they have the slight friction that is associated with cherries ? Is the bottom-out an abrupt clack like with cherries, and if so, can you dampen it with o-rings?The Quiet Click switches have a tactile bump at actuation, are non-clicky and also dampened at the bottom AND top of the keystroke.
hmm...if you wanted to, you could swap out the switches in the Quiet Pro with the tactile switches and have a PC Tactile pro...anyone going to try that?
I looked on your website and i didn't see the alps (that you sell separately) available for sale. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.
http://matias.ca/order/index1.php#matiaskeyswitches for people not on the email list
Is the bottom-out an abrupt clack like with cherries, and if so, can you dampen it with o-rings?Personally, I find Alps switches /vastly/ nicer to type on than cherries of any colour. The Tactile Pro switches (mine's a relatively early model) /do/ bottom out hard if, like me, you type like a jackhammer. O-rings would probably work, but I've not found any that fit in my "box-o-crap". Nor have I looked very hard elsewhere, it should be mentioned. I don't know if the quiet switches bottom out softly or not. But I'll know soon :)
hmm...if you wanted to, you could swap out the switches in the Quiet Pro with the tactile switches and have a PC Tactile pro...anyone going to try that?
Actually, it's even easier than that...
If you're careful, you can just swap the metal clicker, spring, and stem. No soldering required (unless you happen to damage one of the switches).
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be. :confused:
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be. :confused:
I am going to buy one of the Mac bluetooth mini keyboards and swap them out with the orange alps. I wonder how hard it is going to be. :confused:
Just out of curiosity — what do you consider to be better about orange Alps over Matias switches? Just the fact that Matias don't make undamped tactile? (If that's all you want, just remove the dampers from the sliders.)
While I am sure this was a misunderstanding, it is comical to note.
My shipment of new Matias Tactile Non-Clicky switch order arrived, a box with one switch in it. I suspect I did order one unit, and this will all be taken care of, but $60 a switch seems a bit steep.
And yes I put in an email about this with my order and tracking, but this may help other people be less surprised if they receive the same package as me.
While I am sure this was a misunderstanding, it is comical to note.
My shipment of new Matias Tactile Non-Clicky switch order arrived, a box with one switch in it. I suspect I did order one unit, and this will all be taken care of, but $60 a switch seems a bit steep.
And yes I put in an email about this with my order and tracking, but this may help other people be less surprised if they receive the same package as me.
When did you order and how long did it take for them to arrive?
I just wanted to bump this, since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?
I just wanted to bump this, since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?
I just wanted to bump this, since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?
You can buy them 200 at a time on their website.
I just wanted to bump this, since I'm interested in comparing the clicky, tactile version of the Matias switch with some older ALPS boards I have. Will Matias begin selling the switches alone again in the future?
You can buy them 200 at a time on their website.
I can't find them on there, unless it's somewhere buried, and that's why I asked the question. Do you have a link?
Got a pack of 200 Matias Tactile switches and swapped them in on for all but the locking capslock my Alps AEKII M3501. Sadly they don't fit on the Mitsumi AEKII. Got an Apple Adjustable M1242 on the way and I'll see how they compare with the supposed low-profile Alps. Anybody know where one could source some backlight friendly Alps keycaps?I would avoid the Apple Adjustable. The shape is okay, but the switches are pretty meh, and not interchangeable with other Alps switches (or Matias switches), and the keycaps have a unique mount. Also, you definitely don’t want to take it apart, or desolder switches, etc., because it’s an incredible pain to put back together.
I would avoid the Apple Adjustable. The shape is okay, but the switches are pretty meh, and not interchangeable with other Alps switches (or Matias switches), and the keycaps have a unique mount. Also, you definitely don’t want to take it apart, or desolder switches, etc., because it’s an incredible pain to put back together.
There aren’t any “backlight friendly” Alps keycaps as far as I know, unless you mean ones with led windows. (Which is just fine: backlights are ugly :)
I'm thinking about lubricate the slider part of all my switches before to mount them on my ergodox, I tried with one and the feeling is pretty nice, its more soft, but im worried about the long-term of this improvement, for example, I assume that over the time would collect some small dust from the air itself, so maybe the feeling could become worse after 1-2 year using it.Use Krytox (for instance the “geekhackers” kits now available from a few distributors) and you should be pretty well set.
Thoughts ?
Instead, we're using the Matias ALPS-style key switches, which are relatively easy to make custom key caps for thanks to the rectangular mounting post. We hadn't considered Matias switches in our original deliberations because Matias only offered tactile click switches, which are both noisy (even the quiet-click variety) and cause finger fatigue.
We wanted both quiet and linear (non-click) for the Stenosaurus. Happily, after speaking directly with some friendly folks at Matias, they have agreed to create an entirely new type of switch to fit exactly those constraints.
Matias: these guys http://stenosaurus.blogspot.com/2014/07/custom-key-caps-and-switches.html claim:QuoteInstead, we're using the Matias ALPS-style key switches, which are relatively easy to make custom key caps for thanks to the rectangular mounting post. We hadn't considered Matias switches in our original deliberations because Matias only offered tactile click switches, which are both noisy (even the quiet-click variety) and cause finger fatigue.
We wanted both quiet and linear (non-click) for the Stenosaurus. Happily, after speaking directly with some friendly folks at Matias, they have agreed to create an entirely new type of switch to fit exactly those constraints.
Is there more info available about these new switches? Are they just Matias quiet switches with the tactile leaf completely removed, or is there still some kind of modified tactile leaf in there? Are the springs different?