KBC keyboard needs your advice

[imsto]

ligo had posted the post here http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10219

infact it's the first Keybaord by KBC, all PBT, Nkey, removable cable, light on keys.

now, we should try to get some good ideas and advice about the layout.

plz say what you what to say and give us the advice so we can make a better one.  

thanks a lot..

[imsto]

this keybaord is just a sample for pics and test.

[itlnstln]

Is it just me, or are the pics broken?

I'm behind a firewall, so it might be me, but my top secret firewall buster also displays them as broken.

[imsto]

me  too..........

[imsto]

done

[itlnstln]

My suggestions are:

• Cherry browns
• Same layout as the HHKB (for familiarity's sake)
• Easily available in the US

If these three things were to come true, I'd be all over it.  Quality keycaps would be nice, too, but you guys seem to do a pretty good job with that, anyway.

[imsto]

thanks man
Cherry browns   brown blue black would be available  .
If the same as hhkb maybe there would be some problems about the patent.I am not sure.
Easily available in the US    I will put it on ebay.

this is not our job, we do this by spare time.   we felt realy busy in the last year...

[British]

How about:

• Choice of switches
• ISO layout
• Availability in Europe

:wink:

[imsto]

we'd provide shipping all over this planet.

[kriminal]

links broken to me..

[imsto]

links broken to me..

see the Attached Images

[chimera15]

Just sell me the case, the keys/plate? for alps, and the pcb/cord/chip. I'll take care of the switches.  I want the one with the function row. Looks awesome.  How much to the US?

Do you have different plates for alps and cherry, or do they use the same plate as well?  Or it looks like maybe no mounting plate?  

Is there a Japanese version?

[jmpespxoreax]

I think that the layout is awesome as it is. It helps for those of us with that layout in our muscle memory. However, you'll probably have to offer layout customization for others

[chimera15]

The layout looks awesome, it should be close to the siig as possible, but with a full function key row.  Also possibly with the function key swapped with the control/alt keys.  There was a lot of complaint with that originally from normal people.

If you can give me flat black caps with red lettering, it'd be my dream board totally.

I'd like to see the board mounted with alps as well as cherry, alps won't be easy to do without a mounting plate to keep the switches straight.  I had that trouble with my minitouch pcb.  I had to fashion a plate for the main keys, cause they get all wobly and out of place without one.

[chimera15]

Yeah I just noticed the function key rowed board has no arrow keys either.  That's one thing I always hated about the earlier hhkb light/pro.  They need to get rid of the duplicate keys and junk on the right side and add arrow keys there.

[chimera15]

Copy this but not the short spacebar and language keys.  Leave the Enter key, /, Backspace configuration the way you have it.

Show Image

Easy enough to remap the rest - don't worry about any HHKB patents.  They can't patent their layout.

It's iso too.  Just copy the minitouch without the function keys, it's the most universal design.

[chimera15]

At least the mystery is solved I guess.  So it is a kbc board.  Maybe this'll be really awesome.

[imsto]

Just sell me the case, the keys/plate? for alps, and the pcb/cord/chip. I'll take care of the switches.  I want the one with the function row. Looks awesome.  How much to the US?

Do you have different plates for alps and cherry, or do they use the same plate as well?  Or it looks like maybe no mounting plate?  

Is there a Japanese version?

maybe later the case and keys pcb would be available
there is not japanese version now, maybe later.

[imsto]

Copy this but not the short spacebar and language keys.  Leave the Enter key, /, Backspace configuration the way you have it.

Show Image

Easy enough to remap the rest - don't worry about any HHKB patents.  They can't patent their layout.

i like this layout, especially the small space key, I usually press the space key but left thumb,  I think it's not that important to make such a big space key.
most Chinese users used to use windows and paly game with left ctrl and alt
it's not a good choice to delet the left ctrl.

[chimera15]

Something like this.  The big backspace, and l shaped return is a requirement for me to buy it.

 

With the function key version you can move the escape up to that row, and keep the siig blank space tab.

[chimera15]

With the function key position fixed.

[chimera15]

With tild and forward slash keys: With this version the backspace becomes delete when you press the function key.  Also function will be function keys in the top row, while function + alt is the numberpad.  Function alt makes backspace insert, or another key insert somewhere.

[itlnstln]

Imsto, I think you're better off just building it and selling it instead of asking for opinions.  If you do want opinions, I think the best way to do it would be offer several options, and have people vote on them in a poll.  As far as layout goes, I think you're best off just using something that's already fairly common (HHKB or some other ANSI derivative).

[chimera15]

Ugh.  

More like this.  Cram arrow keys into the right cluster.  Move that FCN key to the empty space on left.  Make sure the FCN key issues a scancode so if you don't like it's location you can move it any way you want it in AutoHotkey.  Done.

Show Image

oooooo..... this is pretty in dark theme.  I'll fix that sometime.

Nooo, you need to be able to press control/alt function keys with one hand and reach the others to be able to make it useful, since a lot of function keys require control+alt+f4 for instance.  It also leaves you working the numberpad with your left hand.  One of the problems with the super tiny layout, you really need two function keys to totally access the top row, if you have a number pad I'm realizing, but the function key on the right is totally unworkable.

[British]

I think that the layout is awesome as it is. It helps for those of us with that layout in our muscle memory. However, you'll probably have to offer layout customization for others

As usual, anything that doesn't pertain to the US doesn't exist...
Alas my dear supernumerary-twinky-key, I knew you well, and you'll be missed :pout:

[chimera15]

If you need everything to fit in an exact square, you extend the return out, and it gives you a truncated dsi smk-85 board which might be more workable, but will increase the size slightly.



Same idea, just squish everything on the right over but because of the larger enter key, you can fit a long backspace and a tild or escape key to the left of the 1 instead of having to shoehorn it in.

[itlnstln]

As usual, anything that doesn't pertain to the US doesn't exist...
Alas my dear supernumerary-twinky-key, I knew you well, and you'll be missed :pout:

It's not even that so much as you will find a lot of members here think that ANSI is little more efficient than ISO, but YMMV.  I am always a fan of keeping things familiar unless you are going to do something radically different.

[ch_123]

As usual, anything that doesn't pertain to the US doesn't exist...
Alas my dear supernumerary-twinky-key, I knew you well, and you'll be missed :pout:

There are many European members here. Very few of them actually use their native country's keyboard layout. There is a lot to be said for the US layout, in terms of the physical location of buttons, and the sensible mapping of keys, especially compared with some Central European monstrosities.

[British]

Well, the only things I really regret ANSI is missing are said twinky key (AKA short left shift and <>) and the doubly-inverted-L-shaped enter.
And I would have probably be used to ANSI, were I to get swarmed by such keyboards at youth.
But I don't see many of those (if any) in France.

That twinky-key is a game-changer, in every meaning.

[itlnstln]

I think those are two of the keys Ch_123 is talking about.  I know some of the European members like ANSI better as those two keys are different bringing the left Shift and Enter closer to the home row.