CRT's are better than LCD's.

[EverythingIBM]

I think the main appeal of the FW900/FD Trinitron G1W is that it's widescreen. I've never seen a widescreen Diamondtron NF.

That said, I'm feeling quite envious right about now. I've never found an FW900 locally, much less for just the cost of transportation. My P1110 cost me $6 and my GDM-5410 $10, yet some get their FW900s for free...and if I don't find one locally, the shipping on those things is going to hurt the wallet quite a lot (let alone my back when they arrive)!

So it costs your health & money...

I only order LCDs -- even those come to around 20 lbs. But it's tricky business because you don't know how good the matrix is (regardless if it's used as LCDs are a lot more prone to manufacturing flaws: it's technically better to get used: but then there's still the issue of dead pixels or pressure marks). Decisions decisions...

A solution would be a monitor with a CRT's picture, and the form factor of an LCD (but maybe a thin piece of glass -- I get so mad when people poke my hapless IBM LCD: poking a CRT doesn't matter).

[typo]

i am thinking maybe i should pass up this once in a lifetime opportunity. the thing is i really only like 4:3, wide screen is not an attraction to me. which is the main attraction of the fw900 as pfg said. the problem is that to many sonys had issues out of the box. i had a 400ps and f500 that were doa. the 400ps was doa 3 times! i am not bashing sony just stating facts. it might be time to throw in the towel and get a lcd i am not sure. meanwhile this diamondtron is fine for me. i don't need to push the envelope and ask for trouble. the trouble would come in the form of me ending up in the hospital! i just called a mover i have used several times and they don't want to mess with a one item job. we are talking about carrying this thing several hundred feet where it is located then through my house and up the stairs. that might very well be why it is still new in box! they couldn't even manage to uncrate it possibly lol.

anyhow the f400 actually has much better specs than the fw900 and it is the 4:3 i prefer. only 19" but may have close to the same real estae as the fw900 being 4:3.  i'd just assume keep the diamondpro. i like the diamondtron better even though most people like the sony better. i wonder about samsungs flat shadowmask. i always thought ag was a big improvement on shadowmask but apparently samsung had something there. i might as well quit while i am ahead. collecting keyboards is not akin to collecting crt's. namely in respect for ones back!

[EverythingIBM]

i am thinking maybe i should pass up this once in a lifetime opportunity. the thing is i really only like 4:3, wide screen is not an attraction to me. which is the main attraction of the fw900 as pfg said. the problem is that to many sonys had issues out of the box. i had a 400ps and f500 that were doa. the 400ps was doa 3 times! i am not bashing sony just stating facts. it might be time to throw in the towel and get a lcd i am not sure. meanwhile this diamondtron is fine for me. i don't need to push the envelope and ask for trouble. the trouble would come in the form of me ending up in the hospital! i just called a mover i have used several times and they don't want to mess with a one item job. we are talking about carrying this thing several hundred feet where it is located then through my house and up the stairs. that might very well be why it is still new in box! they couldn't even manage to uncrate it possibly lol.

anyhow the f400 actually has much better specs than the fw900 and it is the 4:3 i prefer. only 19" but may have close to the same real estae as the fw900 being 4:3.  i'd just assume keep the diamondpro. i like the diamondtron better even though most people like the sony better. i wonder about samsungs flat shadowmask. i always thought ag was a big improvement on shadowmask but apparently samsung had something there. i might as well quit while i am ahead. collecting keyboards is not akin to collecting crt's. namely in respect for ones back!

I think any CRT bigger than 17" is a little too much. A 19" dell one really strained my arms because it's so awkward to hold, rather than the weight (and no I didn't take it).

There *are* fullscreen LCDs, in fact, all of mine are.
Here's a 20" IBM one, just to give you an idea (there's a whole bunch of other ones floating around ebay, that one says it has blemishes, two tiny dots near the middle lower left). I think they're good. Not IPS, but it's fullscreen, 20", matte, and resolution is 1600x1200.
Plus they're fairly cheaper; better than what you can get in a store for double the amount anyways.

[typo]

i have carried a 21" crt which was hard but i managed. the fw900's box is a joke. i might as well lift a piano. if i can't find a helper for a reasonable fee i am not going to risk it.
it has been sitting there since 2003 so i probably have time to figure this out.

there is a 20" 4:3 s-ips but the price is stupid since a 23" 16:10 ips is a lot less money with comparable specs. what upsets me is the displays with huge color gamut are all 26"+ 16:9-10 i don't have room for that where i want to put it.

for now there really is nothing wrong with the diamondpro 900u. it is a very nice crt. plus it was free. i had to repair it but that is not a problem for me. i sort of think a crt over 20" is too big and a lcd/plasma over 23" is too big. at least for me.
the thing is if you get a 30" lcd you cannot sit 10" from it and expect good results.
i prefer to sit less than a foot away from my computer display. right now i don't know if the radiation is helping me but i am bald anyways.

[microsoft windows]

Sitting that close to your computer won't help your eyes either.

[EverythingIBM]

i have carried a 21" crt which was hard but i managed. the fw900's box is a joke. i might as well lift a piano. if i can't find a helper for a reasonable fee i am not going to risk it.
it has been sitting there since 2003 so i probably have time to figure this out.

there is a 20" 4:3 s-ips but the price is stupid since a 23" 16:10 ips is a lot less money with comparable specs. what upsets me is the displays with huge color gamut are all 26"+ 16:9-10 i don't have room for that where i want to put it.

for now there really is nothing wrong with the diamondpro 900u. it is a very nice crt. plus it was free. i had to repair it but that is not a problem for me. i sort of think a crt over 20" is too big and a lcd/plasma over 23" is too big. at least for me.
the thing is if you get a 30" lcd you cannot sit 10" from it and expect good results.
i prefer to sit less than a foot away from my computer display. right now i don't know if the radiation is helping me but i am bald anyways.

I don't think CRT radiation really provokes or revokes anything.

Sitting that close to your computer won't help your eyes either.

I probably relaxed my eye muscles too much by sitting too close. I think I'm going to move my monitors back a little bit every now and then. Increasing the brightness and contrast helps too.

[typo]

well i was able to see the fw900 in action. then i saw a lacie electron blue iv sitting there.
ah i just like the mitsu tube better and i did not break my back. i would have liked the fw900 for bragging rights but in the end i am satisfied. i read many people thought lacies $5,000 lcd cooked this crt. well this was free so i am not exactly feeling sorry.  i am almost positive that a sub $1,000usd lcd cannot compete with this. it looks very nice to me. i like the rgb adjustment which the other mitsu based monitors lack. even though i should not have to use that feature.

i personally don't know why people find the fw900 to be the best crt picture. it don't think it is. yes, it's big and widescreen but all the features on that tube end in .23-.27 dot pitch. the north american mitsu is .24 throughout. it just looks sharper and has more "pop" to me. not the sony pop issue mind you

one issue. the top left corner seems to be doing the shimmy. i have no magnets nearby. i have a very good understanding of electronics and don't see anyway to fix that. on the other hand it is very possibly me and not the monitor. i have poor eyesite,my glasses don't jive with bright screens and i am sitting way too close.

i had to crank the corner purity on that corner to even get it decent. this is usually a magnetisim issue. i really don't want to degause it 50 times. great way to burn out the coil before i even get started. this monitor was in use but i can tell it has not seen many hours.

if it is the monitor perhaps, does anyone here know what the issue might be and a fix?

[EverythingIBM]

well i was able to see the fw900 in action. then i saw a lacie electron blue iv sitting there.
ah i just like the mitsu tube better and i did not break my back. i would have liked the fw900 for bragging rights but in the end i am satisfied. i read many people thought lacies $5,000 lcd cooked this crt. well this was free so i am not exactly feeling sorry.  i am almost positive that a sub $1,000usd lcd cannot compete with this. it looks very nice to me. i like the rgb adjustment which the other mitsu based monitors lack. even though i should not have to use that feature.

i personally don't know why people find the fw900 to be the best crt picture. it don't think it is. yes, it's big and widescreen but all the features on that tube end in .23-.27 dot pitch. the north american mitsu is .24 throughout. it just looks sharper and has more "pop" to me. not the sony pop issue mind you

one issue. the top left corner seems to be doing the shimmy. i have no magnets nearby. i have a very good understanding of electronics and don't see anyway to fix that. on the other hand it is very possibly me and not the monitor. i have poor eyesite,my glasses don't jive with bright screens and i am sitting way too close.

i had to crank the corner purity on that corner to even get it decent. this is usually a magnetisim issue. i really don't want to degause it 50 times. great way to burn out the coil before i even get started. this monitor was in use but i can tell it has not seen many hours.

if it is the monitor perhaps, does anyone here know what the issue might be and a fix?

Well, my best explanation for praise over the fw900 is just word of mouth & marketing. Just because the majority are in a skewed mindset and affirm [this] product is the best definitely doesn't.

If it's possible, you shouldn't use glasses at computer monitors (unless hyperopia I guess or EXTREME myopia). Whenever I wear these new glasses I got for driver's stuff (which are way too strong for me), I go cross eyed, everything shrinks, and I can't see a damn thing!
Also it's recommended to have "anti glare" with glasses being used for computer related tasks.

Perhaps you have moire fixing on, that can cause shimmering. Graphics cards can, VGA cords might be able to, different Hz can, etc etc etc.

Your eyes wouldn't be causing shimmering in a defined corner I'm sure. Especially since your previous monitor didn't.

[typo]

i just fixed it. it was my poor eyesite. well sort of. i had the corner purity on the top left cranked as i mentioned. that was not the correct setting. i lowered it a lot and the problem is fixed. it is the right color to boot. it is also 2 am and i have been up since 5 am the previous day. not the best conditions to adjust a moniotr.

yes, the problem with my glasses and monitors is glare and reflections. i suppose i could get the proper ones made for that use.

[Lanx]

http://www.gunnars.com/index1.php

i tried a pair a few months ago, gave me extreme motion sickness, even toughed it out for 3 hours b4 giving up and not being able to adjust to it, pee color aside(it's tinted yellow). Other ppl have had rave reviews.

[typo]

if i understand that correctly those are non-perscription glasses? i am not sure that is a good idea. no wonder you got a headache. ever, try on someone elses perscription when your eyes were 20-20 non corrected? i guess they will sell anything to make a buck. it's like pushing bawls drink for gaming. not the best advice.

the weird thing is the manual for this crt says "capable of displaying unlimited colors(analog)" i read average crt's were 72% ntsc color gamut and certain pro ones were up to 98%. thats hardly unlimited. it doesn't even matter though it looks real nice. this thing is in fine condition. i'd be surprised if this has 100 hours on it. i think there might be an hour meter in the service menu but i don't know how to access it on this one. the corner issue was cured by not going gonzo with the landing adjustment. i guess that corner has to be a tad bit darker to function properly.

i was looking at some $400 19" 4:3 s-ips lcd's. i am assuming this crt is better than those?
well, it looks better to me. it is not better than the 5 grand lacie lcd but i have not the room nor the money for that.

[microsoft windows]

That CRT oughta be better.

[typo]

thanks. that makes me happy. since honestly even if i mustered up the 5 grand for a lcd that would easily beat it i have nowhere i can put a large lcd. all the really high quality lcd's are over 30" 16:10 it seems.

i am very pleased with the way this looks after i calibrated it. it makes me feel good that something that was going to clog a landfill is being put to good use.

of course i have another question, sorry. are you supposed to clearly see the "lines" on the main page of this site if your brightness and contrast are set right? that seems too bright for me if you are supposed to. the good news is this monitor can do it at 25%./50% so i am positive this was hardly used.

[lmnop]

if anybody is looking for a CRT here is a good store that has good shipping options and carry good tubes like Trinitron and Diamondtron.

http://www.accurateit.com/

[microsoft windows]

i am thinking maybe i should pass up this once in a lifetime opportunity. the thing is i really only like 4:3, wide screen is not an attraction to me. which is the main attraction of the fw900 as pfg said. the problem is that to many sonys had issues out of the box. i had a 400ps and f500 that were doa. the 400ps was doa 3 times! i am not bashing sony just stating facts. it might be time to throw in the towel and get a lcd i am not sure. meanwhile this diamondtron is fine for me. i don't need to push the envelope and ask for trouble. the trouble would come in the form of me ending up in the hospital! i just called a mover i have used several times and they don't want to mess with a one item job. we are talking about carrying this thing several hundred feet where it is located then through my house and up the stairs. that might very well be why it is still new in box! they couldn't even manage to uncrate it possibly lol.

anyhow the f400 actually has much better specs than the fw900 and it is the 4:3 i prefer. only 19" but may have close to the same real estae as the fw900 being 4:3.  i'd just assume keep the diamondpro. i like the diamondtron better even though most people like the sony better. i wonder about samsungs flat shadowmask. i always thought ag was a big improvement on shadowmask but apparently samsung had something there. i might as well quit while i am ahead. collecting keyboards is not akin to collecting crt's. namely in respect for ones back!

I haven't really been much of a fan of wide-screen either. I like having one window open at a time, and when you're using a computer like that, 3:4 is the best choice.

[ch_123]

I have a 4:3 20" LCD, and even 24" widescreen LCDs look smaller than my one because of all the lost vertical space.

Too bad that vertical space is the one you really need...

[keyboardlover]

I haven't really been much of a fan of wide-screen either. I like having one window open at a time, and when you're using a computer like that, 3:4 is the best choice.

You must be the king of uni-tasking
No wonder you spend so much time posting!

[EverythingIBM]

I always hated that faint damper line in the Sony Trinitrons.

Still not sure why this post title is CRTs are better than LCD's when they clearly aren't.  Should of been a poll.  I like well constructed polls.

I already made a poll Ripmon:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10782

LCD widescreen won (LCD fullscreen and CRT fullscreen were basically on par). Only one person voted for CRT widescreen.

[itlnstln]

They're not?

I need some time to myself while I figure this all out.

[itlnstln]

What am I, err... you talking about?

[EverythingIBM]

Sounds about right.

I've always assumed all the Vintage Computing guys were one person talking to himself.

Wow, so you mean everyone who likes vintage computers is actually one entity?

[microsoft windows]

You must be the king of uni-tasking
No wonder you spend so much time posting!

I wouldn't really say I "uni-task". I've got multiple programs running at once, but I only like to look at one at a time.

[keyboardlover]

MW's sig reminds me.  Whatever happened to Gr1m?  That dude was Grim.

He liked Black Cherries...that says it all. He probably moved to Germany

[microsoft windows]

He got bored after I started ignoring him. Insulting people isn't nearly as fun when it can't affect them.

[NamelessPFG]

I always hated that faint damper line in the Sony Trinitrons.

Still not sure why this post title is CRTs are better than LCD's when they clearly aren't.  Should of been a poll.  I like well constructed polls.

The damper wires can be irksome, but even a perfectionistic videophile bastard like myself generally won't notice them unless it's a bright background-and even then, they're pretty thin and are generally not that intrusive. Even then, I'll still admit it's a flaw, but I'll take an aperture grille even with that quirk over a shadow mask and its coarser dot pitch (and, yes, I know, dot pitch on shadow masks and grille pitch on aperture grilles are different measures)...or possibly even the "screen door effect" of an LCD if said LCD's DPI/PPI/whatever is too low.

As for the title, I don't necessarily agree with it full stop, but I felt that making a second thread would be redundant.

I already made a poll Ripmon:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10782

LCD widescreen won (LCD fullscreen and CRT fullscreen were basically on par). Only one person voted for CRT widescreen.

It doesn't help that widescreen CRTs are either FD Trinitron G1W-based monitors or HDTVs, and that by the time widescreen and HDTV were becoming the norm, CRTs were being phased out for lack of flat-panel sex appeal.

I'd like a widescreen CRT (direct-view aperture grille, that is, not the damn rear-projection Hitachi 43FWX20B in the living room that loses its convergence all the time, has some egregious overscan, and is susceptible to burn-in), but I'm not really going to lose sleep over it when I can run any widescreen resolution letterboxed on a perfectly good 4:3 display.

Oh, and yet again, other display technologies get no love. No plasma, no DLP (be it single-chip + color wheel + lamp, tri-chip + lamp, or laser, rear-projection or front-projection), no LCoS (SXRD or D-ILA), no AMOLED...admitted, most of those are only used in displays marketed as HDTVs, and others like LCoS are lost to legal issues, but I've thought that some of them would make some nice PC monitors if only they would make them as such.

[typo]

i had to type on a rubber dome today. that sucked.

anyhow, there is a s-ips lg l2000cp-bf for 50 bucks(used). there is still nothing about this thing anywhere. i guess i will have to just go see what the picture looks like. i would like a lcd but it seems you have to spend 5 grand to beat the free crt's. honestly i feel kind of stupid running an i7 with a crt. if one thing holds true it is that i am a miser. i pickup where other people left off and i have never minded.

meanwhile, this latest crt looks wonderful to me. i have software brightness pretty high and i am using the blank screensaver with no eco. so, i figure i will be looking for something new in a couple of months lol.

[EverythingIBM]

i had to type on a rubber dome today. that sucked.

anyhow, there is a s-ips lg l2000cp-bf for 50 bucks(used). there is still nothing about this thing anywhere. i guess i will have to just go see what the picture looks like. i would like a lcd but it seems you have to spend 5 grand to beat the free crt's. honestly i feel kind of stupid running an i7 with a crt. if one thing holds true it is that i am a miser. i pickup where other people left off and i have never minded.

meanwhile, this latest crt looks wonderful to me. i have software brightness pretty high and i am using the blank screensaver with no eco. so, i figure i will be looking for something new in a couple of months lol.

"Yeah I gots the core i7 dood, and one of them CRTs, you know, the big bulky monitors with the huge back and glass screen"

I suppose "CRT" and "core i7" do seem mismatched. But I still like small CRTs around, it saves me the money from buying a monitor for each of my computers. And I have many... three PC 300s now.

[Flybye]

My vote is with CRTs.

I currently have an HP A7217A (aka Sony GDM-FW900) and this beast is simply beautiful.

[typo]

well i am sorry to say i take this all back. i now have the lacie 730 lcd. i't was pretty much given away. it was dead. of course i repaired it and it is fine. i am amazed myself that this was dumped. i guess a large photo lab has enough money that they wouldn't be bothered with it.

i have to say the picture is at least as good as any crt if not a lot better. there is a huge problem though. only firefix and photoshop can properly use the monitor. windows and ie look aweful on it. it has very limited use but it is intended to. i am not complaining though.
in some ways i still prefer crt's. i think it is the backlighting that bothers me on any lcd.

[bhtooefr]

typo: Sounds like it needs to be calibrated.