Author Topic: Fallout: New Vegas (Read 11494 times)

chimera15 · « **Reply #30 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:20:51 »

Quote from: WhiteRice;236102

And just becuase something is illegal does not mean that it is unethical. Look up civil disobedience.

If you apply any of the basic ethical theories to this scenario it is clear that stealing games is unethical and wrong.

I don't consider it stealing, and neither do the courts. Not what I'm doing anyway. The crackers and the people who put it up on torrents are another matter, and even then they have a right to put it up in a private torrent site, as that is sharing in every legal sense of the word. It's the same as if a friend handed you a copy of the game, which is perfectly legal. It's a long way off from walking in a store and walking out with the physical game.

chimera15 · « **Reply #31 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:23:37 »

Quote from: Mercen_505;236149

B-B-B-Bull****.

PC gaming is on the outs for two reasons:

1 - Developers are much happier working with fixed platforms where compatibility and performance isn't an issue. Time is money, and quite a bit of both are left on the table after spending so much effort getting your game(s) to run on as many PCs as possible. Ask any game programmer how they feel about Intel's video chipsets, which are in an unfortunately large number of computers.

2 - DRM + DLC + hokey installation bull**** (Rockstar Social Club?) plus knowing your games are all going to be half broken until the first few patches come out (Stalker?) convinced many PC gamers to jump ship, or at least tone it down significantly. Why buy Fallout now when I can wait a year and get the whole game for so much less?

If you need a third one, take note of how many PC games actually sell that are not an FPS, RTS, or MMORPG. The answer would be almost none. You can't develop anything genuinely unique on PC and expect it to sell. If it does it's a total fluke. You'll notice I haven't even touched on the subject of budgets and dwindling ROI for modern titles. Piracy has always been an issue, and it has always been rampant from the days of commies and apples to this very day. The game industry is going through the same upheavals that have stricken many similar industries. Piracy is a tiny part of a much larger problem.

/rant

Yeah there are a ton of factors. There arguments that say piracy has really nothing to do with it.
However it's gotten much worse since the widespread use of torrents. It was never as bad or accessible is it is now, and it coincided with the large decrease in a release of pc titles. There may have been other factors involved like the xbox and ps2 actually being good gaming consoles, not to mention as you state, pretty stringent controlled hardware, but torrents, and the accessibility of them certainly have some impact. The Scene has always been around, but torrents has really become their uninterrupted distribution source, which was never there before, and you can't stamp it out like Bearshare, Napster, Kazaa ect, cause there's no centralized location, and if you kill one torrent site another one will just pop up. Not to mention there are private trackers that the government/mpaa can't do a thing about.

WhiteRice · « **Reply #32 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:41:48 »

Look I never said that piracy was the only reason. You say yourself that it is part of the problem. You are taking my words out of context. Then spewing a bunch of other stuff.

1. Why do they bother developing on PC at all then; because everyone has a PC and you reach a huge market by doing so. Sure there are costs, but the benefits outweigh them or they wouldn't be doing it.

2. You're right developers should have to work for free to provide us with entertainment. Why don't we chain them to their work stations. I'm sure their kids don't need to goto college.

@rip Shogun is going to rock this world.

Mercen_505 · « **Reply #33 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:44:34 »

Quote

It's gotten much worse since the widespread use of torrents.

I won't outright deny this, but people downplay the effect BBSs had back in the early 90s. It was typical for a group to release a game about a week before it hit the shelves on the east coast. Anyone with a few floppies or a modem that wanted it, had it.

WhiteRice · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:46:48 »

Quote from: chimera15;236173

I don't consider it stealing, and neither do the courts. Not what I'm doing anyway. The crackers and the people who put it up on torrents are another matter, and even then they have a right to put it up in a private torrent site, as that is sharing in every legal sense of the word. It's the same as if a friend handed you a copy of the game, which is perfectly legal. It's a long way off from walking in a store and walking out with the physical game.

This actually a good point, and something the industry is struggling to find a solution to.

"How do we make sure people playing our game are paying for the experience"

chimera15 · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 19:54:38 »

Quote from: Mercen_505;236183

I won't outright deny this, but people downplay the effect BBSs had back in the early 90s. It was typical for a group to release a game about a week before it hit the shelves on the east coast. Anyone with a few floppies or a modem that wanted it, had it.

No I know, like I said, The Scene has always been around. But back then it took a lot of knowledge and you had to be a certain quality of geek to go to those lengths. Not to mention modem speeds were a huge hindrance. Today it's like everyone with a computer might as well just get it from torrents, it's a simple search away.

chimera15 · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:06:20 »

Quote from: ripster;236191

I think that "thief" is a harsh term. I think "leech" is more appropriate.

If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it. As of now, when someone offers me something for free, I don't see I can afford to turn it down and pay for it out of some idealistic value system that I have to pay to support a giant game company. The time I'm going to waste playing it is going to be more than enough loss to me already.

WhiteRice · « **Reply #37 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:12:47 »

Quote from: chimera15;236195

If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it. As of now, when someone offers me something for free, I don't see I can afford to turn it down and pay for it out of some idealistic value system that I have to pay to support a giant game company. The time I'm going to waste playing it is going to be more than enough loss to me already.

Shouldn't you be studying?

:3

chimera15 · « **Reply #38 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:14:03 »

Quote from: ripster;236196

Then don't go looking for Torrents at Geekhack. Technically it's against Forum Guidelines but abusing you was more fun.

Um, I wasn't looking for torrents. I was looking for a legal download source like Gamestop, which at the time, and may still be listing New Vegas as preorder. So I wasn't sure I could buy it from them and get it immediately.

When I checked torrents again I found it was upped.

I don't need to look for torrents.

chimera15 · « **Reply #39 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 20:17:29 »

Quote from: WhiteRice;236197

Shouldn't you be studying?

:3

I took a final earlier today. I'll take the rest tomorrow. Then I can play for about 5 days before I have to start new classes. lol

ironman31 · « **Reply #40 on:** Tue, 19 October 2010, 22:46:18 »

Seems to me that Steam is saving PC gaming. Most of the games on there end up dropping so much in price that it's hard not to just go ahead and buy the game. (i.e Left 4 Dead 2 for less than 7 USD about a year after it's released)

chimera15 · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 00:04:00 »

Anyone notice the funny keyboard format on the loading screen? Wonder what format that is...it's definitely not qwerty.

Oh I guess it is qwerty, just missing the ,. keys.

chimera15 · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 05:32:53 »

Really loving it so far. Think I'm about half way through the main quest after about 12 hours of play, I'm level 12. Killed both the casino owners, took control of a robot army, and now trying to get to the brotherhood of steel, but a bunch of hornet type bugs keep killing me. Guess I gotta get some more levels before I try to get there. Need power armor.

ironman31 · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 06:58:27 »

Too many spoilers!

instantkamera · « **Reply #44 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 07:32:12 »

Im a broke student with no money and tonnes of debt. I have been looking for a free TV, but havent had any luck. I have checked with all of my friends who steal **** on a regular basis, but they dont have one. hmmmm, well I guess I MIGHT have to buy one.

**edit: oops, no, I found one in some old ladies house. Im all set now.

This is ****ing foolish thread. If something costs money and you take it for free, you are stealing. That is ****ing fact.

This is why I try to support F/OSS whenever possible. Those are people who agree with all of us who think software ought to be free, or at least a hell of a lot cheaper. The difference is that they put their money where their mouth is and contribute to the solution, not the problem (And you ARE a part of the problem, especially as it is perceived by the publishers of non-free software).

The thing is, you can argue all you want, you really are a free-loader with a feeling of self-entitlement.

Quote

So I'm thinking of building a new i7

Quote

I have some spare money from my school refund. It's been a lifelong dream for me to go to Japan

Quote

I may actually break down and buy a legal copy though seeing as this is probably the only non free game I'll play in a year or two, and built a whole system basically just to play it

wait for it ...

Quote from: chimera15;236195

If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it.

smell that HORSE****! P-EWWWWWWWWW.

You DID consider buying it, you were THIS close to buying and money was definitely not the deciding factor. Which tells me you either DO have the disposable income, or you are extremely stupid and have no idea how to live within your means.

Quote from: chimera15;236195

when someone offers me something for free, I don't see I can afford to turn it down and pay for it out of some idealistic value system that I have to pay to support a giant game company.

Entertainment is not a right, it is a privilege. Not everyone can afford the latest and greatest, or even the old ****. There are alternatives, there are many cheap/free independent games. Or, Take Mercen_505 for example. He/she understands value (didn't they teach you that in Business 101) and has patience to wait for the inevitable price drop.

Quote from: chimera15;236195

The time I'm going to waste playing it is going to be more than enough loss to me already.

I guess the software company should reimburse YOU then?

keyboardlover · « **Reply #45 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 07:54:43 »

Well all I can say is I thought it was weird when his 2 choices were 'go to Japan' or 'build an i7 machine' but then in the thread he was like 'oh yea or maybe I should pay off my debt'. You don't go to Japan or build an expensive computer if you're in debt. That's just incredibly stupid.

kriminal · « **Reply #46 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 10:23:30 »

Quote from: chimera15;236055

Then they should learn how to program security better. Or better yet, put it out for free and ad/ feature support it.

There are only a handful of cracking groups out there that are releasing cracked games on the same day as they come out. If I were those game corporations I'd be putting those guys on the payroll to come up with anti-cracking technology, or at least using them as testers.

bull**** excuse to pirate imho...

just saying...

elservo · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 10:25:43 »

Spoilers, good god!!!

Sorry this thread became all about piracy. I was just hoping it would be a wondrous celebration of the Fallout universe!

Does Steam have Fallout 2 available for Mac? Probably not, but I thought I'd ask. It might be fun to play it at work or something.

...not that I would ever goof off at work.

And oh, I've noticed that while walking through the landscape that my PS3 stutters a little. So far, the game has only crashed once on me but it feels like it's been close to it a couple other times. I just find myself saving the game a lot to combat the possible crashes. Hopefully they put a patch out soon.

elservo · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 10:48:38 »

Haha, nah, I'm all about some debate. I just hope that all this talk had gotten you interested in trying out the game, Rip.

chimera15 · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 11:57:35 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;236303

Well all I can say is I thought it was weird when his 2 choices were 'go to Japan' or 'build an i7 machine' but then in the thread he was like 'oh yea or maybe I should pay off my debt'. You don't go to Japan or build an expensive computer if you're in debt. That's just incredibly stupid.

You have to understand that for me there's a difference between being in debt without an income and being in debt with an income. My finances are static. If I spend my money on one thing, it's not getting replenished. The current finances I have I need to use to either get a job so I have income, or fulfill responsibilities I have to people around me, which both building an i7 or going to Japan would be doing. They might look like something you would do for fun or vacation, but that was never the point. I understand the question in itself might seem misleading, but there were a great deal of qualifications that had to be understood to make an informed decision.

As far as the other arguments, the simple one that if you take something that you didn't pay for, you're stealing. I didn't take it, someone else did, and to ask someone to refuse something that's there for free is pretty ridiculous. You comparing it to real life theft is pretty dumb as well. When you steal something you deprive the use of it from someone else, not to mention it's usually a violent act, which is even more unfair. If anyone could walk up to a ferrari and copy it instantaneously, how long do you think car companies would be in business? Copying software is a long way from what you describe.

I was going to buy it, but that's because I have a finite amount of time to play it, and wanted to start on it yesterday, I was about to if I could get it instantaneously from a software source, but wasn't sure I could do that, which is why I asked here if anyone else had. But then saw it was already up. Asking me then to forego the free source and buy it at that point.... Well it's just not going to happen. You're probably right, probably not even if I had money.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #50 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:15:26 »

Quote from: chimera15

The current finances I have I need to use to either get a job so I have income, or fulfill responsibilities I have to people around me, which both building an i7 or going to Japan would be doing. They might look like something you would do for fun or vacation, but that was never the point.

I would love to hear an explanation as to how either going to Japan or building an i7 will get you a job or fulfill responsibilities you have to people around you.

chimera15 · « **Reply #51 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:22:56 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;236413

I would love to hear an explanation as to how either going to Japan or building an i7 will get you a job or fulfill responsibilities you have to people around you.

It's in that thread if you read it.

chimera15 · « **Reply #52 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:31:01 »

Quote from: ripster;236410

We have guys in our neighborhood that sell car radios for cheap.
Show Image

I've bought a car stereo from one of those guys before. That was before ebay existed though, and was less obvious and known for sure that that kind of thing is associated with thievery.

Even so, if they are, they're selling them, not giving out copies of them for free. There's a difference there as well.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #53 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:37:36 »

Quote from: chimera15

It's in that thread if you read it.

A. You shouldn't need to go to Japan (or any other country) just to get a job. It makes even less sense since you said you're in school.

B. If all you need is a computer for school you could spend ~$300 on a computer that would have all the capabilities you would need to do schoolwork.

IMHO if want to travel that far and get a job go to New Zealand. They need skilled workers, plus they speak English. Hope you like sheep!

You can even do a working holiday there. It's one of the easiest countries to immigrate to, and they have plenty of jobs.

chimera15 · « **Reply #54 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:39:55 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;236424

A. You shouldn't need to go to Japan (or any other country) just to get a job. It makes even less sense since you said you're in school.

B. If all you need is a computer for school you could spend ~$300 on a computer that would have all the capabilities you would need to do schoolwork.

IMHO if want to travel that far and get a job go to New Zealand. They need skilled workers, plus they speak English. Hope you like sheep!

You can even do a working holiday there. It's one of the easiest countries to immigrate to, and they have plenty of jobs.

Stop trying to bring that thread to this one, this is about fallout. If you want to argue about it and my reasons go post in that thread, and read some of it. I've already had this argument over there.

instantkamera · « **Reply #55 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:56:10 »

I noticed you essentially ignore my post. It's cool, you have clearly shown your colours. You can pay for **** to PLAY games, because there's no way you are getting a free gaming PC, but you cant splurge on the software. Basically, you are the WORST thief ever, too chicken **** to actually go out there and steal **** for yourself, you have to leech off others

...

Oh wait, didnt someone mention that already?

Oh, and FYI, if the cops catch you with something hot, I'm pretty sure "well I didn't steal it" isn't gonna fly.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #56 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:56:32 »

Meanwhile, in New Zealand

Mercen_505 · « **Reply #57 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:04:27 »

Sadly, I'm rather surprised that the game is still so buggy. I noticed that my F3 Game of the Year edition was infested with CTD (that's Crash To Desktop) bugs, whereas my neighbor's launch version was less buggy. He had a hell of a time getting all the DLC to integrate properly, which you'd think would be a no-brainer. Thanks, GFW Live!

Keeping that track record in mind, it's possible the inevitable New Vegas GOTY edition may very well be totally unplayable. I'm having Stalker flashbacks just thinking of it.

chimera15 · « **Reply #58 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:11:42 »

Quote from: instantkamera;236433

I noticed you essentially ignore my post. It's cool, you have clearly shown your colours. You can pay for **** to PLAY games, because there's no way you are getting a free gaming PC, but you cant splurge on the software. Basically, you are the WORST thief ever, too chicken **** to actually go out there and steal **** for yourself, you have to leech off others

...

Oh wait, didnt someone mention that already?

Oh, and FYI, if the cops catch you with something hot, I'm pretty sure "well I didn't steal it" isn't gonna fly.

I didn't ignore your post. I just didn't quote you cause I quoted someone else. You obviously ignored my post though.

The law is clear, what I'm doing is not theft and it's not against the law. If the cops arrest you for doing something which isn't illegal, well.

chimera15 · « **Reply #59 on:** Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:13:50 »

Quote from: Mercen_505;236435

Sadly, I'm rather surprised that the game is still so buggy. I noticed that my F3 Game of the Year edition was infested with CTD (that's Crash To Desktop) bugs, whereas my neighbor's launch version was less buggy. He had a hell of a time getting all the DLC to integrate properly, which you'd think would be a no-brainer. Thanks, GFW Live!

Keeping that track record in mind, it's possible the inevitable New Vegas GOTY edition may very well be totally unplayable. I'm having Stalker flashbacks just thinking of it.

Interesting. I haven't had one crash so far.

News:

Author Topic: Fallout: New Vegas (Read 11494 times)