Author Topic: TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro  (Read 26861 times)

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Offline cbf123

  • Posts: 87
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #90 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 16:40:26 »
I emailed the guys at TE and pointed out the false information with the registrar.  Here's part of their response:


"Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and as we are currently only accepting pre-orders, we are keeping information about our company as confidential as possible. Once we start taking normal orders, we will publish our head office address and our telephone number in our website.  We have now opted like many other corporations to have the 'who is' information private; once in place, we will restore our information following ICANN policy."

 
"Customers who pre-ordered their keyboards prior to December 1st, 2010, like yourself, have a delivery delay as we experienced manufacturing hurdles which were out of our control. We were keen to avoid any circumstances under which the quality of the shipped Truly Ergonomic Keyboard might be viewed as unsatisfactory, and many of our pre-ordering customers have accepted the delay as being prudent. We are grateful to our pre-order customers for showing us patience and support."


Finally, in response to me bringing up the possibility of requiring a refund, here's the important bit:

"....simply reply to this email stating you no longer want to benefit from of all the advantages provided by the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard that no other product provides, do not want to receive a gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, and would like to receive a full refund of your purchase."


I haven't quite decided what I'm going to do.  I really want one of these keyboards if they exist, and I ordered at the $150 price so if they turn out to be real I'd be out $50 if I reordered at the full price later.  On the other hand, cancelling would probably be the prudent thing to do.
Daily drivers are:
Microsoft Natural (the original, and still going strong)
Microsoft Natural Elite
[/SIZE]

Offline hoggy

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TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #91 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 16:52:52 »
You've paid them money - why should they hide their address from you?

"Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and [customers wanting their money back]"

Bless.

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 2705
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 03:44:31 »
Quote from: cbf123;285450

"....simply reply to this email stating you no longer want to benefit from of all the advantages provided by the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard that no other product provides, do not want to receive a gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, and would like to receive a full refund of your purchase."


Wow they are giving you the hard sell lol. I remembered when I worked retail, we'd sell ppl computers/laptops and they wanted a refund so we give them store credit. What are some ppl gonna do with $4,000 store credit? when they don't like the store after we treat them like dog poo? (we make it impossible for regular ppl to return items back then, a B&M nyc store with 2 returns line? lol) They can try to get a refund, but only the most bulldog ppl can get one, after 4hours of arguing, they'd wait even more if they spent a lot of money just to run them down. In the end, we all just sang "we got your money, we got your money"

TE is doing the same thing, they're singing "we got your money"

Offline nesiax

  • Posts: 60
    • key64 libre keyboard
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #93 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 15:55:23 »
Quote from: cbf123;285450
I emailed the guys at TE and pointed out the false information with the registrar.  Here's part of their response:


"Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and as we are currently only accepting pre-orders, we are keeping information about our company as confidential as possible. Once we start taking normal orders, we will publish our head office address and our telephone number in our website.  We have now opted like many other corporations to have the 'who is' information private; once in place, we will restore our information following ICANN policy."

 
"Customers who pre-ordered their keyboards prior to December 1st, 2010, like yourself, have a delivery delay as we experienced manufacturing hurdles which were out of our control. We were keen to avoid any circumstances under which the quality of the shipped Truly Ergonomic Keyboard might be viewed as unsatisfactory, and many of our pre-ordering customers have accepted the delay as being prudent. We are grateful to our pre-order customers for showing us patience and support."


Finally, in response to me bringing up the possibility of requiring a refund, here's the important bit:

"....simply reply to this email stating you no longer want to benefit from of all the advantages provided by the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard that no other product provides, do not want to receive a gift certificate in the amount of fifty US dollars, and would like to receive a full refund of your purchase."


I haven't quite decided what I'm going to do.  I really want one of these keyboards if they exist, and I ordered at the $150 price so if they turn out to be real I'd be out $50 if I reordered at the full price later.  On the other hand, cancelling would probably be the prudent thing to do.
I wrote to the TE People, asking for the same fake information and i receive the same email as you:

Thank you for considering the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe our product would be an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can serve to increase your typing efficiency.

We apologize for the delayed response due to the high volume of emails we are currently receiving.

In regard to your inquiries, please find the following information which we hope you find useful:

1)
Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, telemarketers, and as we are currently only accepting pre-orders, we are keeping information about our company as confidential as possible. Once we start taking normal orders, we will publish our head office address and our telephone number in our website.

2)
Due to heavy snail junk mail, e-mail spam, identity theft, data mining, and telemarketers, same as above, we removed our phone number and address from our domain name registrar. We have now opted like many other corporations to have the 'who is' information private; once in place, we will restore our information following ICANN policy.

Please visit our website to learn more: http://www.trulyergonomic.com

You can place your pre-order securely here: http://www.trulyergonomic.com/preorder.html

Please send us an email should you have any additional questions or require additional information.

Regards,

Michelle
Customer Service
Truly Ergonomic Ltd.

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipients; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere, in whole or in part. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.
now: key64.org with cherry blue keys and dsa keys |  before: noppoo choc mini with cherry brown keys
Check out the key64.org project , A Libre * Design, Minimalist, Ergonomic, Splittable, Symmetric, Compact 64 Keys, Eco-Friendly, Durable, Native Colemak Keyboard, Embedded Mouse and Firmware Programmable USB Keyboard.  * Free as in Freedom.
The key64 need a case, if you want to design it please contact us

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #94 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 16:37:41 »
Quote from: nesiax;285941

The contents of this email are to be read only by its intended recipients; they are not meant to be forwarded or posted elsewhere, in whole or in part. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message immediately.


Luckily this instruction was at the end of the message.  Imagine if you had read the entire message before posting it here.

There's a word for this.  In fact, there are many, but here are very few appropriate fingers...

Offline rantenki

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TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #95 on: Tue, 01 February 2011, 21:28:31 »
Quote from: Forsaken;283570
Fake addresses and phone numbers are worse than a "competency" issue. I can't see a legitimate business faking their contact info. But who knows...


I agree , and that is a big part of the reason that I bought a Kinesis Advantage instead. Under $300 shipped CDN for a known good keyboard with way less risk. They even threw in a goldtouch ergo mouse :)

A cop friend of mine has a saying; "If it looks like a rat, it's a rat". In this case, it looks like TE is a rat, so odds are...

Although, if you are going to run a scam, you could pick a larger target market.

Offline V21

  • Posts: 4
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #96 on: Thu, 03 February 2011, 18:40:26 »
Just to add a data point, here is my history of dealing with TE:

late Dec -- discovered TE website, got psyched about product though a bit suspicious
1/5 -- placed pre-order for $188US total, paid via AmEx / paypal
shortly after 1/5 -- discover geekhack forum, find out about the 1st batch getting postponed to March, start worrying a lot more about the possibility of having been scammed
1/13 -- email TE asking for immediate refund
1/17 -- receive TE reply trying to persuade me to reconsider the many advantages of not cancelling and they need me to re-request refund for them to do it
1/18 -- email TE to say yes I really did want a refund
1/18 -- refund appears on my AmEx account

Offline jpc

  • Posts: 703
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 03 February 2011, 21:49:49 »
I have a Kinesis Advantage now. And let me tell you. There is simply no comparison to the TE. o_O

RSI prevention recipe:[/B] Kinesis Contoured, Colemak layout, touch typing, Contour Design Rollermouse,  Logitech TrackMan Wheel, Logitech m570 trackball, "workrave" break timer software, "awesome" window manager, tenkeyless boards, cherry browns, Wang 724 with "ghetto green" ALPS, standing desk and/or comfy adjustable chairs, stress reduction, computer time reduction.

Fun non-ergonomic things: bolt modded Model M Space Saving Keyboards with new springs, Kensington Expert Mouse v7, Unicomp Endurapro, Northgates

Offline Tracer

  • Posts: 107
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 04 February 2011, 09:24:30 »
Quote from: jpc;289588
I have a Kinesis Advantage now. And let me tell you. There is simply no comparison to the TE. o_O


Well, not having used a TE, I don't think that's a fair statement.

I got a chance to use the Advantage for a month or so at my previous job. Because of the small size of my hands, I actually found that it wasn't as comfortable as I would have liked. I also didn't like the size of the keyboard, nor the hight of it on my desk.

The thing that appeals to be about the TE, is the fully programmable 109 model. This way I can have the keys similar in layout to any other keyboard, including the one on my thinkpad. I have no interest in using separate keyboard layouts on the different computers I have to use.

I am concerned about the legitimacy of TE. However, working in the domains business I can understand his point about spam etc. Before discovering whois privacy, I would receive all sorts of bull**** scams using the information in my whois record. I'm sure this guy is running this venture out of his house and doesn't want to be harassed.

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 2705
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 04 February 2011, 21:32:41 »
Quote from: V21;289538
Just to add a data point, here is my history of dealing with TE:

late Dec -- discovered TE website, got psyched about product though a bit suspicious
1/5 -- placed pre-order for $188US total, paid via AmEx / paypal
shortly after 1/5 -- discover geekhack forum, find out about the 1st batch getting postponed to March, start worrying a lot more about the possibility of having been scammed
1/13 -- email TE asking for immediate refund
1/17 -- receive TE reply trying to persuade me to reconsider the many advantages of not cancelling and they need me to re-request refund for them to do it
1/18 -- email TE to say yes I really did want a refund
1/18 -- refund appears on my AmEx account


LoL, TE really should ship out a protype to iMav at least, at least then someone could prove that it actually exists.

Online iMav

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TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #100 on: Sat, 05 February 2011, 02:45:05 »
Quote from: Lanx;290093
LoL, TE really should ship out a protype to iMav at least, at least then someone could prove that it actually exists.


I offered them a vendor forum, but they never responded.  :)

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 237
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #101 on: Sat, 05 February 2011, 03:15:02 »
strange to say, but the only post from V21 are these myth lines.., without any prehistory or future comments.. hmm
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline V21

  • Posts: 4
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #102 on: Mon, 07 February 2011, 18:12:57 »
Quote from: noctua;290175
strange to say, but the only post from V21 are these myth lines.., without any prehistory or future comments.. hmm


sheesh.

I was posting partly to THANK geekhack for prompting me to get my refund.

enjoy your paranoia!

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 237
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #103 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 01:46:03 »
Yeah, paranoid is to order an TE and after some time to insisting on a refund..
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 237
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #104 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 02:10:50 »
Quote from: V21;291467
sheesh.

I was posting partly to THANK geekhack for prompting me to get my refund.

enjoy your paranoia!


Yeah, paranoid is to order an TE and after some time to insisting on a refund..
Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline V21

  • Posts: 4
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #105 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 23:56:02 »
In the USA, credit card companies will intervene on behalf of a cardholder who experiences fraud -- but if reported within 30 days of purchase.  TE's own "100% satisfaction guarantee" spells out rather liberal terms for refunds.

Look, I am simply offering a data point which neither proves nor disproves the legitimacy of TE.  If you believe TE is not legitimate, you will point out that Bernie Madoff gave refunds to his early clients so as to project an appearance of legitimacy.  If you believe TE is legitimate, then giving a refund to a customer who changes their mind 2 months before the stated ship date, as happened in my case, is something that would be expected of any honorable business.

Offline V21

  • Posts: 4
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 23:56:41 »
In the USA, credit card companies will intervene on behalf of a cardholder who experiences fraud -- but only if reported within 30 days of purchase.  TE's own "100% satisfaction guarantee" spells out rather liberal terms for refunds.

Look, I am simply offering a data point which neither proves nor disproves the legitimacy of TE.  If you believe TE is not legitimate, you will point out that Bernie Madoff gave refunds to his early clients so as to project an appearance of legitimacy.  If you believe TE is legitimate, then giving a refund to a customer who changes their mind 2 months before the stated ship date, as happened in my case, is something that would be expected of any honorable business.

Offline appie747

  • Posts: 84
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #107 on: Wed, 09 February 2011, 16:32:57 »
Who has a TrulyErgonomic? No youtube-clip to be seen... no review of someone who actually got one... I'm still curious!
Kinesis Freestyle Incline (work), Compaq MX 11800 (browns), AlphaGrip AG-5 FOR SALE! (home)

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 237
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #108 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 01:56:37 »
As flipper  uhmm  ripper  uhmm..damn  ah ripster would say, pics or it isn't real.. (LOL)

Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline appie747

  • Posts: 84
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #109 on: Thu, 10 February 2011, 04:28:22 »
Well, it would be something...
Kinesis Freestyle Incline (work), Compaq MX 11800 (browns), AlphaGrip AG-5 FOR SALE! (home)

Offline appie747

  • Posts: 84
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #110 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 04:25:03 »
Just got an e-mail from TrulyErgonomic saying they have trouble with production but the first keyboard will be ready in a couple of weeks. At that time they will share pictures and video's. Patience people! The quick reply to e-mail reassures me that it's not fake anyway.
I asked my employer if they would pay for a Kinesis Advantage but they find it too expensive... they offered a MS natural 4000 instead... don't really like that because of the staggered layout. I still think the TE would be a good alternative
Kinesis Freestyle Incline (work), Compaq MX 11800 (browns), AlphaGrip AG-5 FOR SALE! (home)

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 2705
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #111 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 06:48:42 »
if the max your emplorer will spring for is a ms ergo 4k then your not gonna be getting a mech ergro from them heh.

Offline redpill

  • Posts: 774
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #112 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 11:27:39 »
Quote from: Lanx;293312
if the max your emplorer will spring for is a ms ergo 4k then your not gonna be getting a mech ergro from them heh.


They just have to make sure the HR person overhears them casually talking to a co-worker about the potential for a workers' compensation claim from RSI due to the refusal to provide more ergonomic computer peripherals and they should get a sign off from management in a heartbeat ;)

^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded KeycapsDucky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline appie747

  • Posts: 84
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #113 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 13:50:44 »
I'll will start a discussion on monday! Thanks for the input. Actually I'm a teacher so I'm not typing all day long but still. Even teacher spend a lot of time behind computers these days.
Actually the response was: for the price of a Kineses we can buy 30 dell keyboards! Stangely we get decent office chairs to sit in, why not cheap folding chairs?
Kinesis Freestyle Incline (work), Compaq MX 11800 (browns), AlphaGrip AG-5 FOR SALE! (home)

Offline kps

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TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #114 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 14:11:34 »
Quote from: appie747;293481
Actually the response was: for the price of a Kineses we can buy 30 dell keyboards!

Wow, those Dell keyboards sure are overpriced!

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 2705
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #115 on: Fri, 11 February 2011, 14:23:18 »
imo i think the reason why ppl notice the need for chairs > keyboards is that their @$$ is in the chair 8hrs a day, versus the 2/3 hours of hard typing anyone is doing so that ergonomic impact is not felt as quickly. Also I suspect many people who have a computer are hunt and peckers, because as we know, while hunt and peckers look silly and downright stupid, they will never suffer RSI tho!

Offline Architect

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 183
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #116 on: Sun, 13 February 2011, 09:14:15 »
Wow, the thread that didn't die ...

I happened to come across this thread again (haven't been on the bored for a long time) I closed the thread as it seemed to want to turn into a bash fest, looks like a mod opened it up again or something. Anyhow ... while I haven't read more than a few posts it looks like some think I'm a troll.

FWIW I'm not a troll. Some people are quite excited about the amount of my preorder, but I'm wealthy enough that it wouldn't overly bother me if the company turned out to be fake - OK? I'm always surprised at the degree to which people are willing to invent conspiracy theories.

As probably discussed the company delayed the order again until late March with a $50 coupon to make up for it. I still expect they'll come through and am patiently waiting until they can ship out a keyboard.

Online iMav

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TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #117 on: Sun, 13 February 2011, 09:22:58 »
I'd love to see TrulyErgonomic take me up on my offer of a vendor forum here.  It would certainly lend credibility to them and also give them additional exposure.  At the very least, it would be nice to see them pop in here.  :)

Offline Architect

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TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #118 on: Sun, 13 February 2011, 10:14:12 »
Quote from: iMav;294390
I'd love to see TrulyErgonomic take me up on my offer of a vendor forum here.  It would certainly lend credibility to them and also give them additional exposure.  At the very least, it would be nice to see them pop in here.  :)


I expect they're too busy at the moment. I started a similar business once, just keeping a website up to date was difficult enough, never mind customer emails.

By the way, what did happen with this thread, did you unlock it? Why? Apologies if its buried in there somewhere.

Offline j_r

  • Posts: 60
TrulyErgonomic vs Kinesis Advantage Pro
« Reply #119 on: Sun, 13 February 2011, 11:52:06 »
Really, why would you be shocked this thread has persisted?  This forum has if anything given several people adequate pause before committing to a product that may not come to fruition.  Also, there have been several valid arguments about working prototypes, etc. - TE is just shooting themselves in the foot for not posting a video even of a rough working model.  A product such as this needs hype, but more prudently, demonstrative hype.

As per your questions regarding the life of the thread while you were away:  

Quote
4 Jan 2011, 21:39      #28
iMav
Site Admin

No need to close the thread. It has not been significantly derailed. It is valid to be skeptical of a keyboard that is, up to this point, vaporware. Several of the members here (myself included) have pre-ordered and certainly want the keyboard to be everything it is billed to be.

You, as a long-time Kinesis user should know that it is one thing to claim ergonomic bliss...it is quite another to deliver!

I think we should all, at best, be cautiously optimistic. They have obviously fabricated some PR for themselves. All start ups do it. Why would you take offense at us calling a spade a spade? As someone who has pre-ordered as well, I would think you are going into this with eyes wide open just like the rest of us.

Or do you have some additional information that we are not privy to??


(BTW, TE has received an invitation to join our vendor forums...we'll see how serious they are about customer service and open communication)


Quote

6 Jan 2011, 11:58      #44
Lanx
Senior Member

I guess i'll make it official, after a day of not posting and trying close his own thread (a behavior of trolls, the only ppl who have closed threads on GH are butthurt or trolls) so I dub thee, Architect Sir Troll-a-lot. Thank you fellow GH'ers for your fine work.

HID
Keyboard: Leopold FC200RC/AB; horrible ASUS rubber dome keyboard; (3) vintage AT keyboards: Tandy 2000 with horrible switches (Fujitsu), NMB RT2257TW, Fujitsu FKB 4800 (need drivers...)
Mouse: RAT5 mouse