Realforce for SC2??

[.XL]

I've been in the market for a new keyboard, as I feel the need to experiment beyond my current Cherry Browns. I loved the cloud of boobs (MX Reds) but they're all sold out in tenkeyless and it looks like they won't be coming back any time soon.

I've taken a look at my finances and have found that yes, I can afford to spend the $280 or so the 86u with shipping will end up running me (though I need a new mouse soon too...). My only issue is that throughout my research I've heard nothing but complaints from people when it comes to gaming with the Realforce variable weighted keys. Is this the general consensus? Would I just bet better off importing an MX Red tenkeyless, or going for an MX Blue (seems to be the most popular SC2 kb)??

I want to be a member of the Rolls Royce of keyboards club, but I don't mind falling in Aston Martin territory

[nigritude]

tbh, it is hard to notice the variable weights when you play sc. i think you would be pleasantly surprised if you played sc on a topre

[lootbag]

For some reason... I really notice the variable weight on my 86U.
This is when I am typing though.
When I press the 30g keys... it feels (dare I say), "mushy".
Really lacks the crispness of the 45g and 55g keys.
But, it does its job by reducing fatigue.

I haven't gamed on the 86U but I bet you won't notice it because you will be too concentrated on what's on screen.

[Arc'xer]

Considered importing a 45g topre? Like the yellow 91uby and or the G-tune. Only problems are price and layout.

[Chobopants]

If you are patient: I have a 103UB 55g on the way and am a hardcore gamer (specifically SC2). If you can wait until next week I can give my impressions comparing my Brown and Topre. Once I get my Leo Blue I'm probably going to write a pretty in depth comparison of them for gaming specifically.

I feel like all the data going around is so anecdotal and opinionated that people are very misinformed. Fruitdealer uses Browns! Boxer uses Blues! SC1 players use really crappy rubber domes! Etc...

I want to take my over 10 years of hardcore RTS and FPS experience and do my best to give the most objective comparison of these keyboards from a gaming perspective that I can. Then every time some OCN jerk starts flaming everyone about how using blues for gaming makes you "a gay" I can point them to my thorough review.

[RiGS]

The 55g topre dome is too stiff for Starcraft...
I think the all 30g would be the best choice to play starcraft on a topre Keyboard.
You'd be better to go with the DT-35 for starcraft.

[DanGWanG]

I don't really have a problem using the RF 86UB/103UB variable weights for SC2, but I'd much prefer another keyboard for it.  (i.e. Blues>Reds>Browns)  Though, I do find myself accidentally pressing the A key a lot, which is annoying.  The 30g switch is much too light for a game like SC2, and doesn't have as much of a tactical feel as the 45/55g switches.

This is also happens when I'm playing a game where I rest the wrong fingers on the WASD cluster.  I find myself pressing W a lot on accident.

[pitashen]

You'll be just fine.

[RiGS]

Why are you prefer reds over browns for starcraft?

[pitashen]

Why are you prefer reds over browns for starcraft?

I would say its purely personal preference.

[Chobopants]

Why are you prefer reds over browns for starcraft?

The entire line is actually backwards from what is currently touted. I'm rather confused as to the reasoning to be honest.

Typically, for SC2, common consensus is:
Brown > Red > Black > Blue

For FPS it goes something like:
Red > Black > Brown > Blue

That's just the FOTM of what people are touting, not saying that it has any true grounding in truth. That's why I'm waiting until I have my Blue and Topre to contrast with my Browns. Right now the Browns are amazing for SC2 and WoW Arena (which you could argue has similar movement requirements as an FPS) and I'm really curious to contrast them.

[vun]

The entire line is actually backwards from what is currently touted. I'm rather confused as to the reasoning to be honest.

Typically, for SC2, common consensus is:
Brown > Red > Black > Blue

For FPS it goes something like:
Red > Black > Brown > Blue

That's just the FOTM of what people are touting, not saying that it has any true grounding in truth. That's why I'm waiting until I have my Blue and Topre to contrast with my Browns. Right now the Browns are amazing for SC2 and WoW Arena (which you could argue has similar movement requirements as an FPS) and I'm really curious to contrast them.

I prefer blues for SC2, though I can't say it matters that much as I'm too focused on the game to notice. Don't like them for FPS, though, but any game that doesn't rely on keyboard for movement, such as RTS games, D2 and others is great with blues.

[.XL]

Thanks for all the responses so far!

I'm looking at the Red not specifically for SC2, but for all computer needs (I think I spend 1/4 of the time browsing, 1/4 of the time typing, and the other half gaming DOTA/HoN/SC2)...I really liked the feel of the Reds, so I'm assuming I'd really like the feel of the all-45g Topre. How hard is that to come by? I haven't played SC2 on my Brown tenkeyless yet, but the tactile feel is easily ignored during gaming in HoN. I think the blues would be quite could because you get the auditory feedback when you hit keys, and don't need to actually see things on screen register.

If it helps any, I'm a Zerg player who wants to go Terran to fit into a threes with two friends who started up 2 weeks ago (Protoss - Zerg).

[RiGS]

I haven't tried the reds only the blacks, but the topre 45g feels completely different in a bad way.

[HaveANiceDay]

Hey there. My Realforce 86U is on the way, and I will test it against my Filco Browns.
For what it's worth, I'm a high diamond Zerg with about 140 non-spam APM.
I also play HoN too

[RiGS]

If you buttom out while gaming then the Topre is fine, but also note that the topre keycaps are slippery.
However, I DO NOT recommend them for gaming.

[keyboardlover]

Topres, IMO, are good for gaming.

=)

[guilleguillaume]

Gaming with a Realforce Topre 45g is a pleasure.

RiGS don't recommend Topre to anyone, don't really know why he is so angry with his Realforce.

Playing Starcraft 2 with the Realforce 91 UBY 45g is fantastic and you don't miss any key press with it. It is good for playing FPS and RTS too.

BTW what is wrong with bottoming out?

[RiGS]

I recommend it for genaral use they are enjoyable, but for gaming there are better alternatives out there.

[HaveANiceDay]

Only one way to find it out

I mainly bought the 86U to replace my workplace keyboard. So I am not too concerned if I won't like it for gaming. Right now I am very happy with browns.

[RiGS]

BTW what is wrong with bottoming out?

If you tend to buttom out, it means you do not have a proper control over the activation of the switch, thus you will be slower with double tapping, and general.
Also by buttoming out you get an incorrect/delayed feedback, because the switch actuates at halfway of the stroke, and it will likely mess up your reaction time in crucial situations.

[Shuki]

In reality, in games you don't have the luxury to pay such attention to how much force you a putting on the keys and will inevitably cause you to bottom them out. Any attention taken away from your games in very unlikely to aid your performance.

If mechanical keyboards provided such an advantage, there wouldn't be so many professional players who play contently with their rubber dome keyboards.

Topre is at least as good, dare I even say better, than your standard rubber dome keyboard and thus is perfectly viable for gaming.

[RiGS]

You don't have to pay attention on it, it is kinda natural with blacks. That's why they are the best switch for gaming, and that's the reason why Steelseries chosed mx blacks.
However for RTS games it doesn't matter.

[Shuki]

How do you know that's why Steelseries chose MX blacks? because they told you?

Didn't steelseries also make the Kinzu which had a horrible sensor with positive acceleration, after this was revealed they stated that this was intended to give a consistent acceleration through all applications through hardware.

If another person claims that "insert switch name here" is the best for gaming, I'm going to tear my hair out.

[keyboardlover]

Yea, that's fanboyism. Lame.

[RiGS]

Yea, that's fanboyism. Lame.

So do your troll comment.

[keyboardlover]

What troll comment? I simply pointed out your fanboyism. Your keyboard criticisms are never objective. They're always completely opinionated.

[RiGS]

You actually labeled my opinion as lame.

[Shuki]

Also, what do you mean Topre keycaps are slippery? They are textured unlike most other keycaps I have used (such as those on a filco) and hence I would say are the opposite of slippery.

[RiGS]

Topre keycaps are made of PBT. PBT material feels slippery compared to the ABS plastic. My fingers are sweating when I play on the Realforce.
I do not have this problem on my cheap SS 6gv2.

[rustybarnacle]

Having finally gotten my hands on a HHKB, i have to agree with the assessment that they feel very simply like high quality springy domes.  Which seems tough to swallow for the price.  I greatly prefer browns to topres in any scenario.  Consider that, for the money, you could get two cherry MX boards instead.

[keyboardlover]

You actually labeled my opinion as lame.

I said fanboyism is lame. But frankly your opinion is fanboyism, therefore it's lame.
Be objective, everyone has their own opinion.

No one wants yours shoved down their throat.

[suntorytime]

Topre keycaps are made of PBT. PBT material feels slippery compared to the ABS plastic. My fingers are sweating when I play on the Realforce.
I do not have this problem on my cheap SS 6gv2.

I have a Topre 103 and a SS 7G and disagree completely with the above statement. The PBT material has a much courser feel and does not feel oily to the touch compared to the keys on my 7G.

Steelseries keycaps are plain outright cheap, and my W S E D keys have worn down visibly.

As for performance of either keyboard, I honestly think its personal opinion. I've never met a gamer who does not bottom out whilst gaming. No player holds a key mid travel for extended periods of time (ie, to move fwd) but if you wanted to do it, it'd certainly be easier on MX Blacks.

For what it's worth, I've played most of my sc2 matches on a topre. MX Black makes my hand tired.

[keyboardlover]

I agree with suntorytime. I honestly find nothing "slippery" about them.

[RiGS]

Then the problem is probably with my sweat.

[RiGS]

I agree with you that the keycap quality of SS is cheap, and the Realforce is better for Starcraft than the mx blacks.

However, I have no problems holding the key mid travel. If I had then I would prefer the Realforce over the Stiffer Blacks.

I only have the problems with PBT when I hold the WASD for extended period of time.
For Starcraft I haven't experienced this problem.

[popol]

Having finally gotten my hands on a HHKB, i have to agree with the assessment that they feel very simply like high quality springy domes.  Which seems tough to swallow for the price.  I greatly prefer browns to topres in any scenario.  Consider that, for the money, you could get two cherry MX boards instead.

you're funny.

[nigritude]

If you are patient: I have a 103UB 55g on the way and am a hardcore gamer (specifically SC2). If you can wait until next week I can give my impressions comparing my Brown and Topre. Once I get my Leo Blue I'm probably going to write a pretty in depth comparison of them for gaming specifically.

I feel like all the data going around is so anecdotal and opinionated that people are very misinformed. Fruitdealer uses Browns! Boxer uses Blues! SC1 players use really crappy rubber domes! Etc...

I want to take my over 10 years of hardcore RTS and FPS experience and do my best to give the most objective comparison of these keyboards from a gaming perspective that I can. Then every time some OCN jerk starts flaming everyone about how using blues for gaming makes you "a gay" I can point them to my thorough review.

is highly appreciated !

[chel-]

I really am not a big fan of topre for gaming. I find it more fatiguing to use them vs black (not sure why). Mind you I dont play sc2 but in the games I do play I prefer black switches...thus far at least.

[guilleguillaume]

If you tend to buttom out, it means you do not have a proper control over the activation of the switch, thus you will be slower with double tapping, and general.
Also by buttoming out you get an incorrect/delayed feedback, because the switch actuates at halfway of the stroke, and it will likely mess up your reaction time in crucial situations.

I've never failed a movement when playing games because of bottoming out

You post statements always thinking about MX Blacks and they're not the definitive switch. I like them too but you can't compare bottoming out on blacks to bottoming out on Topre or Browns that are tactile switches.

I prefer Topre over brown for gaming but right now I'm using the Noppoo with Browns just because is more easy to carry on when attending to LAN. Tomorrow I'm going so I'm not going to carry on my Realforce 91 UBY.

Blues are nice for SC2 too and RTS but for FPS they're not that good at all.

[stuiees]

I have used a topre all 45g (HHKB), topre variable (86u), cherry brown (filco 104) for gaming(sc2, cs 1.6), and I prefer the topres.  I use the 86u exclusively now and really dont notice the variable weighting unless I am trying to notice it.  I think it is a great board for gaming and everything else too.  If you are really concerned about the variable weighting, worried the 55g will be too stiff, and cant get your hands on a all 45g import, you can always last resort to ripsters all 45g mod where you switch around some of the domes.

Anyway, get a topre, join the club, be happy

[.XL]

I think I'll just go for the Realforce...I've been wanting to try a Topre, and I could always sell it in the classifieds here if I don't like it. I guess I was just hoping to hear Topres don't just plain suck for gaming...

[woody]

Having finally gotten my hands on a HHKB, i have to agree with the assessment that they feel very simply like high quality springy domes.  Which seems tough to swallow for the price.  I greatly prefer browns to topres in any scenario.  Consider that, for the money, you could get two cherry MX boards instead.

True.

[Shuki]

I think I'll just go for the Realforce...I've been wanting to try a Topre, and I could always sell it in the classifieds here if I don't like it. I guess I was just hoping to hear Topres don't just plain suck for gaming...

They don't suck for gaming at all, nor are they "the best" for gaming either. The use of a switch is definitely down to personal preference, and typing is much more discriminating than gaming.

Claiming one type of switch is superior for gaming is trivial, such as claiming a more comfortable chair will improve your gameplay. Sure you'll be more comfortable, but the end product will not differ to any noticeable degree.

[Arc'xer]

I think I'll just go for the Realforce...I've been wanting to try a Topre, and I could always sell it in the classifieds here if I don't like it. I guess I was just hoping to hear Topres don't just plain suck for gaming...

No one has ever said "they suck". In fact for those that use them they can be quite attached to them. The primary problem with them is the variable-weight topres. Though for some they are better able to ignore the shortcomings of it.

Uniform topres on the other hand can be very different per weight aspect. For example many have been wanting a 45g topre which is a middle ground between the heavier 55g and the lightness of the 35g. The 45 seems to get a lot of praise especially when they are able to compare the 55g and the 35g.

But I've also ran into the opposite of the spectrum were some like the topres for the fact they can be so easily changed to be lighter compared to the offerings of other companies without heavy modding such as soldering and buying switches and whatnot. I recall reading a handful of Japanese gamers actually using 35g and 30g modded topre/HHKB for gaming in particular to fast paced games like quake/warsow.

So there is no problem using the topre for gaming. The primary reason why people debate is the price. Kinda reminds me of a few forums which people have posted on the HHKB/Topre or hell even the cherry mx based keyboards only to get ridiculous bull**** responses like WTF who would buy that. In reality the topre is a hard pill to swallow for most people especially gaming.

They don't suck for gaming at all, nor are they "the best" for gaming either. The use of a switch is definitely down to personal preference, and typing is much more discriminating than gaming.

This.

But like above the price factor is probably the first impact rather than; Which switch is better?.

[Shuki]

I don't really understand why they would mod the switches to 30/35g, I usually say that the switch doesn't matter, however when they are getting light accidental key-presses are becoming more of a likelihood. It probably wouldn't be an issue for me personally as I don't really put that much weight on the keys, however I don't see the benefit of such a light switch.. i.e. a 30g topre over a 45g topre.

It seems the Asian market tailors the boards to light switches, and I assume they market at as "improved/faster response", and the European/US market has gone for heavier blacks with the marketing of "no accidental keypresses". Further adding evidence that gaming companies have no direction with regards to designing keyboards. Based on this diversion it pretty much indicates there is not intuitive switch for gaming but rather personal preference.