Designing an ergonomic and efficient keyboard, a.k.a. the 'godlike' keyboard

[nesiax]

Hi Guys

I am a follower of the geekhack website since january / 2011.

I have seen some projects around regarding keyboards focused on ergonomics , programming, gaming , touch typing , general typing, etc ... i have seen also some keyboards you have built for your own purposes, and at the end i agree as many of you with the fact as there is no keyboard that can fit every human need, but sadly at the end we end up buying what is on the market and we must adapt themselves for what the market had to offer.

In other words: I don't think the market have the keyboard we really want.

However we can design a new keyboard, one that can fit almost every aspect of what we need, it doesn't matter if it will never see the light as a final product, we hope it will, but not doing anything is worse yet.

To give you an example:

Many of us work with the QWERTY layout, and we all already know this layout was not well designed, at least not with efficiency in mind, except just for marketing purposes , so I decided to search for a better layout, and then I choose the Colemak layout to work on, currently I am not as fast as I am on the QWERTY layout but I feel more comfortable and it will be just a matter of a few months to regain the same speed I have on the QWERTY layout, Colemak is not perfect, it is designed for English in mind, while I write mostly all of the time is Spanish, but is still better that QWERTY and for all or you to know there is a good research about keyboards layout on the carpalx website supporting this argument.

So, why not design the Geekhack.org / Deskthority.net Keyboard and let's put it a name ?

grep '.*g.*d.*k' american-english yields to some words, but GoDliKe seems to be a nice name, the 'godlike' keyboard, as fallen from heaven

Many of you know a lot about keyboards, the parts that made it, the PCB layout, the keyswitches, the keycaps, the NKRO, the PS/2-USB connections, the USB hub, so maybe we can design what will be the average best fit layout, designing a keyboard and making it free accessible to the world like a standard so a manufacturer can build it, taking every aspect that makes a particular keyboard successful, some of you had some of them, so we can summarize good aspects of such keyboards, I know one can search the whole geekhack website and also the internet to give us one idea, but it's better to hear that from the one who owns such keyboard.

So I will list some of the things I will like the keyboard to have:

   1. Ergonomics
   2. Efficiency
   3. Additional Functionality (Programming / NKRO / USB Hub)
   4. Esthetics
   5. Build Quality

And finally my Request for Comments propossed keyboard.

   1.      Ergonomics

      I will like to have a keyboard that follow the shape of the hand, since our fingers are all of different sizes don't see the reason why all the keys must be arranged in a row, so a keyboard like the maltron 2D will be nice:

      and then we have:


      maltron 2d keyboard

      Our fingers:



      two hands

      A 3D keyboard ? I have never had a 3D keyboard like the Maltron or the Kinesis, neither the Maltron 2D stated above, so is a 3D keyboard a huge improvement ? What about the space between the two hands ? I personally think that's too much space, but since I have never type on this keyboard I prefer to hear comments about people who have experience these kind of keyboards before.


      maltron 3d keyboard
         

      kinesis ergo keyboard

      One thing to have in mind regarding the ergonomic keyboards is the use of the left thumb, so we are going to put that lazy guy to work.

      Anyone have tested the utron keyboard or the kinesis freestyle ?


      From my point of view, the uTron keyboard have one of the best layout I have seen, a good balance between two hands and two keys for each of the thumbs, although I will change the order of some keys.

      kinesis freestyle


      Another options to consider:

      The typematrix

      and the "truly" ergonomic, which nobody knows if some day it will see the light.


      One thing that could be annoying about the truly is the mac key up in the middle of the keyboards, I think that will make this keyboard useless on Mac, and also the middle keys, if you were supposed to reach it with the left or right hand, so let's divide them in two keys, one for the left hand and another for the right hand.

   2.      Efficiency

      I have heard from people who use the Happy Hacking keyboard they rated this keyboard as the best because of the layout, there are some things I like from the happy hacking keyboard:

          * Don't have Windows keys logo, I don't use windows, and when I have to I don't use them, I am not sure If they are really useful, I also don't use Mac, I see that mac user's use a lot the 'apple function' key, so I will think that key would be a requirement for this keyboard.
          * Don't have Function keys, this key are just a waste of space, I use them rarely to have dedicated keys, so having a 'Function' + Number will be the best way to get this function keys. The only thing that makes me thing is in Liux the key combination CTL-ALT+F? Key which implies 4 pressed keys.
          * No numeric keypad, being it tenkeyless make it nice too, it just must have a led light for advice.
          * I almost never use the keys: 'print screen', 'scrool lock', 'pause break', 'insert' and the 'del' key because it was too far in my conventional keyboard however I began to use the 'del' key recently on the noppoo where this key is better located.
          * Caps lock removed, I will like to have this key removed, but I also like to have it as a combination of two keys and want to have a led light when this setting is on, that will be useful when I have to type passwords and there are no advice on the computer screen when this setting is ON.
          * Compact keyboard, you can carry with it, as with your laptop.

      happy hacking keyboard pro 2



      Some things I don't like:
          * The lack or arrow keys, I use this keys too often, so I don't want to have this keys as a combination, that will make me sick.
          * Is not ergonomic.

      Some things I will like:
          * From the noppo, the double cero "00" from the "<" key when it is pressed and the numeric keypad is activated, useful for Calc applications.

   3.      Aditional Features

         3.1. Programming

            Every keyboard could be programmed, it means I can change the mapping of the keys to fit my needs, I am a spanish speaker so is important for me to have the "Alt-Gr" key well located, so I can easily type special letters which are common in spanish like: "áñéíóú", other people will want to put the control key in other place, other just wan to remove the caps lock key.

            So having a device that could be programmed by hardware will be nice, I don't know how will be the best way to do it, but clearly the keyboard must have a USB interface, one option I was thinking about for USB keyboards is some of usb bridge, something I can plug between the computer and the keyboard and so we can program it and remap the keys as they are presed, like the qido usb filter


            Thank you humble hacker for pointing me out, also I am not sure it this kind of device will disable the NKRO.

            Off course that will make the keyboard more expensive, so at the beginning we can think about just using software tools for the Operating System it is supposed to be attached.

         3.2. NKRO and PS/2 interface

            I don't need NKRO, but a lot of people use it for gaming, so it is supposed that a modern keyboard must have to support at least NKRO under PS/2 or 6KRO with USB.

         3.3. USB Connector and Hub

            Keyboards like the Happy Hacking have a USB hub on the back, I think that will be useful also notice, the keyboard use a usb connector so we can change it for a larger or shorter cable, but the USB HUB is really not a requirement, is just a plus.


   4.      Esthetics

      There should be options for the keyboard, like ordering with blank keys, I agree with the DAS keyboard as one of the first ones that decided to sell keyboards with no keys printed, the principle of not having keys printed is the best way to learn how to touch type.


      das keyboard

      Also, since kids are growing now using computers, it will be nice to have a set of collored keycaps like this one:


      keyboard colored key caps

      of course, we must have the option to order a kit with or without keys printed, those are just for the main keys, i.e.:

      colemak layout

      Whether they are on QWERTY, Dvorak or Colemak or anything else.

      As anything that is going to be marketed it should be something that looks good, perhaps a good girl model like this one will promote the keyboard better than us:


      keyboard girl bed

   5.      Build Quality

      You know more than me about the Quality of keyboards, my first mechanical keyboard arrive about one month ago so I still felling the cherry mx brown keys that come with my noppoo, according to keyswitches options, i.e. topre, cherry or apls, with seems to be the most popular, maybe the cherry seem to give the best value in quality / cost .

      Also I don't know too much about plastic, so this paragraph need a lot of comments.

Proposed Keyboard.

This is my proposed keyboard, the 'godlike' keyboard


It will not have functions keys, to get this functionality you must use the "fn" key with the number.

The left thumb will use the Alt-Gr in order to get international characters easily on this keyboard.

The apple / windows key will be bellow the space and alt-gr, those keys will be arranged like in the kinesis.

There is no caps-lock, you can get this functionality typing: FN-Backspace, and Numlock via FN-Tab.

Anyway the keyboard should come with software or hardware instructions in order to remap the keys as the user want, maybe someone will request to interchange the altgr with the fn key, I use this map just because I need to type international characters more often than using the function key, also I don't use the apple/win keys, so I could remap them to functions keys if I want to.

The keys in the keyboard must be arranged ergonomically like in the maltron 2d keyboard.

[hoggy]

Lots of stuff going on.  Like it.

I'd be tempted to flip the altgr and apple/win and space  keys 90 degrees to make them easier to use with the thumbs (think maltron/kinesis)   If you could find room for a shift (or even a fn key) in those blocks you could really make it easy to use the keys on the same hand).  If you could get the fn key in that group, it'll be nice to see an embedded cursor set on rfst or neui.

I've always wanted to see dedicated copy & paste keys on a board - do you have room somewhere?

The freestyle has a nice form factor, but mine's quite worn and the keyfeel is terrible - probably not as bad when new.

Really good start.

[rustybarnacle]

Need spacebar on both sides.  There is no consistency among typists as to which thumb hits space.

[Findecanor]

I think that the most important thing in a new ergonomic keyboard is that it is split into two distinct pieces. Only that would allow it to be "adjustable" to fit people who are built differently, with different wide shoulders.

I would rearrange the keys in the middle to be more like µTron's.

Code: [Select]

[B]Del[/B]  [B]Backspace[/B]
[B]Tab[/B]  [B]Enter[/B]
More consistency. Counterparts are opposite one-another. The keys on the left affect text on the right. The keys on the right move the cursor to the left. One row for adding chars (Tab/Enter), the other for deleting chars (Del/Backspace).

I also think that a matrix layout is inherently flawed because it does not take into account the different size and position of the fingers. The physical layout should be somewhat curved like the TrulyErgonomic or have a symmetric stagger like the µTron.

I think also that there should be possible to swap the Control and Win/Apple keys in hardware or by programming  -- because the Control under Windows and Linux has mostly the same function as the Apple key under MacOS.
BTW, rotate the thumb keys 30°.

[manfaux]

hey! that MY keyboard girl!

[notlofty]

Needs Dip switches.

[nesiax]

I would rearrange the keys in the middle to be more like µTron's.

Code: [Select]

[B]Del[/B]  [B]Backspace[/B]
[B]Tab[/B]  [B]Enter[/B]
More consistency. Counterparts are opposite one-another. The keys on the left affect text on the right. The keys on the right move the cursor to the left. One row for adding chars (Tab/Enter), the other for deleting chars (Del/Backspace).

I take the colemak approach and decide to put on the home row what is more used so the backspace and the enter must be on the home row, while the 'tab' which is a less used key must be on the upper row as the 'del' key too since i used it less than the backspace key and i think many of you do so.

I also think that a matrix layout is inherently flawed because it does not take into account the different size and position of the fingers. The physical layout should be somewhat curved like the TrulyErgonomic or have a symmetric stagger like the µTron.

i agree and i will like this keyboard to have the maltron 2d position of keys, i also like the utron way but i think the utron is more like a conventional layout and i will like something more ergonomical like the maltron 2d.
i had no enought time to develop a more refined picture of the layout, i need a help from a 3d developer.

I think also that there should be possible to swap the Control and Win/Apple keys in hardware or by programming  -- because the Control under Windows and Linux has mostly the same function as the Apple key under MacOS.
BTW, rotate the thumb keys 30°.

I don't use apple computers, does the control key in a conventional keyboard is the same as the apple key ? if that's true i think we can remove the apple key from the design.

[nesiax]

Needs Dip switches.

I was thinking about dip switches but their functionality is limited by the dip switches, i think is better to have a firmware programming alternative like the humble hacker did for his keyboard, on the worse case we can use a software based solution.

[nesiax]

Need spacebar on both sides.  There is no consistency among typists as to which thumb hits space.

Hi, i don't think the space key must have to be on boths sides, since space is not like the ctrl | shift | alt  which are often used in a key combination, so since there are no "space-key" combination there is no need for that, also in the kinesis or the maltron they are put on one side, if that approach had worked for them, that will work for us too.

anyway if you use to press it with the left thumb you can remap it to do so, what we need to define is the default keyboard according for what is most widely used, after that you can remap keys as  you want.

[Input Nirvana]

It already exists, except for the cool multi-colored keys. And BYOHNG. (Bring Your Own Hot Naked Girl)

[nesiax]

Lots of stuff going on.  Like it.
I'd be tempted to flip the altgr and apple/win and space  keys 90 degrees to make them easier to use with the thumbs (think maltron/kinesis)   If you could find room for a shift (or even a fn key) in those blocks you could really make it easy to use the keys on the same hand).  If you could get the fn key in that group, it'll be nice to see an embedded cursor set on rfst or neui.

I don't how many keys can you press without errors using just the thumbs, i set the limit for just 2 on each side, putting the shift key where the apple/win keys are located will be very comfortable, the final user should be able to swap this keys.

I've always wanted to see dedicated copy & paste keys on a board - do you have room somewhere?

i will like it to be as compact as possible, and with fewer keys.

[Agiel]

I like it alot. However, I'd put space on both thumbs and replace the right Win/Apple button with Alt Gr.

[theferenc]

I've always wanted to see dedicated copy & paste keys on a board - do you have room somewhere?

Sun and others would often put these in a cluster to the left of the main block. See the Sun Type 5, 6, or 7.

A similar block can be seen on the 122 key terminal Model M keyboards. The keys by default send different things, but you can easily remap the keys to act as dedicated copy/cut/paste/undo/redo. This is what I did, in an application dependent fashion (different codes for emacs, for instance).

Back to the original point, I don't think you should use FN+Tab as NumLock, as that's the shortcut for CapsLock on the HHKB, so a lot of folks are already used to that. Also, FN+Backspace sends delete on the HHKB. You really shouldn't mess with people's muscle memory without reason. HHKB users have it in regards to the FN, most other folks don't need it. So satisfying those that already have it would be the best choice, I think.

[bpiphany]

Back to the original point, I don't think you should use FN+Tab as NumLock, as that's the shortcut for CapsLock on the HHKB, so a lot of folks are already used to that. Also, FN+Backspace sends delete on the HHKB. You really shouldn't mess with people's muscle memory without reason. HHKB users have it in regards to the FN, most other folks don't need it. So satisfying those that already have it would be the best choice, I think.

How do you get the backspace to work as delete? What is your dip switch settings? I can only get fn+backsp working as num lock which is sort of pointless =P

[theferenc]

1,3,5 on, the rest off.

Oh, wait. You're right, it's FN+` that is delete. Damn it all. This is what happens when you just reach for things. You stop paying attention to what they actually are.

My mistake, carry on.

[bpiphany]

=) that's alright. I think it should have been fn+backsp though. That would have made more sense. Well, insert is right left of it as it is now which also makes some sense I guess. Still getting num lock seems strange to me. I've got 2,3,4,5 set to on myself.

[nesiax]

Just to record, one of the thinkgs i like from the kbc poker is the space located behind the keyboard that will let us keep the usb cable safe and organized.

[spolia optima]

IBM M15 + Topre switches

[HaaTa]

Hmm, not convinced yet. Sticking with my μTRON.


Converter idea is cool, I may put something together in the future for Colemak.

True NKRO is possible over USB, but there are issues when interacting with the BIOS and weird OSs.

[n12]

Just to record, one of the thinkgs i like from the kbc poker is the space located behind the keyboard that will let us keep the usb cable safe and organized.

Show Image

I'm pretty sure that case is still just a prototype and not for sale yet. The KBC Poker's case that will be coming with the group buy is just "flat".

[nesiax]

An idea on how to make a prototype borrowed from another geekhack user:

[vun]

I'm pretty sure that case is still just a prototype and not for sale yet. The KBC Poker's case that will be coming with the group buy is just "flat".

Actually I believe that is a one-off by a forum member not affiliated with KBC. He made it to fit his personal needs, I believe he worked as an industrial designer so getting it made didn't seem like a big deal for him. Think he was from Taiwan or thereabout.
Should be a thread somewhere, maybe in the modifications forum.

Edit; Seems I was wrong, but not too far off.

[nesiax]

Hi all.

I made my initial prototype of the godlike keyboard.

According to my initial belief the keyboard must complain with the following requirements:

• Open (Design, Specifications, Software)
• Ergonomic
• Compact
• Reachable *
• Software programmable

* least cost finger travel + use strong fingers always.

Notes:

I am still in doubt on how to remap the tab, backspace, delete, enter keys that goes in the middle, using the colemak approach the backspace and the enter should be on the home row, like this:

tab del
bksp enter

But using a semantic appoach, maybe backspace and delete shoud be on opposite sides at the same row, like this:

del bksp
tab enter

So here it is my design:



Compared in size to a noppoo choc mini.



How hands will fit on the keyboard.



another view.



colemak keymap layout and with the Fn pressed



And with numlock enabled.

[nesiax]

Hi all, i am planning to construct the keyboard with cherry mx based keyswitches (brown) but there are two references of them:

    * PCB mount MX1A-G1DW
    * faceplate mount. MX1A-G1DN for No pins (metal frame req)

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards

Which one should i buy for an easy to build keyboard ?

Do any of you know which advantages each one represents over the other ? any examples to read ?

[alaricljs]

The only real difference between plate mount and PCB mount is that the PCB mount have 2 plastic pegs sticking out the bottom along with the conductor pins.

[nesiax]

mmmm... searching geekhack it seems that PCB Mount is the way to go ...

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:12790

[nesiax]

So your recommendation for a custom made keyboard is the PCB mount ?

[alaricljs]

If you feel that you want to be able to change switch types without completely resoldering the keyboard, then PCB is the way to go.  Also it's easier/cheaper to get a PCB made to spec than a PCB and a plate made to the same spec.

[nesiax]

I decided to change the keyboard name to KEY64, and set up a new website for his develpment at http://www.key64.com/

You can use an open id to post comments on this website if you want to.