Author Topic: Chording on a standard keyboard? (Read 13145 times)

Popkeymon · « **on:** Tue, 29 March 2011, 05:56:45 »

I won't have that extra $200 for buying a twiddler 2.1 or a BAT keyboard for fun. If what we need is only 7 buttons(as a BAT) to chord, why not using the existing keyboard that cost no extra money to buy?

Basically we need to define the keys to be used to chord and copy the table outlayed already in the BAT manual in a small decoding software.

What's the point if we have 100+ keys on the board but just use a few?

Well, if the theory behind Dvorak (and all derivative) is correct, the finger sitting on home row is far better than moving all around the keyboard. If we can chord on the home row for all letters, it then eliminate all finger movement and result zero finger movement effort in design!

I don't know if this increase productivity or not. But I am sure it should be a funny way to explore.

Popkeymon · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 29 March 2011, 07:05:01 »

Two handed BAT style chording keyboard on a standard keyboard:

(1) Use only 7 keys one the home row(the middle letter row).
(2) Left hand is usually weaker, so it takes up three key equal to the BAT three thumb button.
(3) Right hand handle the 4 other keys.
(4) Direct copy the BAT coding while allowing all function key such as shift, space, enter, alt, ctrl active for ease of use.

If home row theory is correct, one should be moving less over the keyboard and being less fatique. All fingers are sitting still on a fixed territory with only one possibe action: pressing that particular key. Chording the way down on at the home row.

Popkeymon · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 29 March 2011, 07:26:24 »

One handed Numpad chording for all letters:

(1) Zero for space. Enter for Enter.
(2) 1-9 and . for the most frequent letter (Arensitoul)
(3) Chording by pairing two/three numbers in same row for all other letters (e.g. 1+2 = M, 1+3 = W, 1+2+3 = X)

Numpad is highly portable and space saving. If it works to chord with 7 keys. it following chording on a cheap numpad with 17 keys.

Findecanor · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 29 March 2011, 08:01:49 »

A chorded keyboard needs to allow the keys in all chords to be entered simultaneously. Unfortunately, that is uncommon on cheap numpads and keyboards.
You should read up on this forum on "n-key rollover" (NKRO).
Chording with the left hand on the left side of a keyboard might work on a gaming-optimized keyboard without NKRO, if you can find a lucky combination of keys on that board.

REFLEXTYPE · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 08 August 2011, 06:34:08 »

Quote from: Popkeymon;320562

Two handed BAT style chording keyboard on a standard keyboard:

(1) Use only 7 keys one the home row(the middle letter row).
(2) Left hand is usually weaker, so it takes up three key equal to the BAT three thumb button.
(3) Right hand handle the 4 other keys.
(4) Direct copy the BAT coding while allowing all function key such as shift, space, enter, alt, ctrl active for ease of use.

If home row theory is correct, one should be moving less over the keyboard and being less fatique. All fingers are sitting still on a fixed territory with only one possibe action: pressing that particular key. Chording the way down on at the home row.

You need to meet me. Just found GEEKHACK and am trying to build a one-hand keyboard. Starts AEIOU; A, B (= a, e), C (= a,e,i), D (a,e,i,o); E,F,G,H; I,J,K. See more on Reflextype.com. Doug Englebart was impressed. He invented a chord keyboard but never saw AEIOU. Contact me at Reflextype@juno.com, or try GEEKHACK. P

REFLEXTYPE · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 10 August 2011, 03:36:20 »

I don't know if l' m replying. This keyboard is the size of a mouse and fits in your hand. Hey, I just found out GEEKHACK exists. Bear with me. ref: U.S Patent #5,281,966.

REFLEXTYPE · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 10 August 2011, 03:46:59 »

l' m building a mouse-size keyboard with 9 buttons, 5 of which are keys for the reflex alphabet. No more chicklet keys. P

pyro · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 10 August 2011, 04:38:32 »

You can probably do some pseudochording in Autohotkey

Code: [Select]


done := 1
LCtrl::
	done := 0
	Send {LCtrl Up}
	Input chord, L2 T1, {esc}
	if (chord = &quot;cn&quot; or chord = &quot;nc&quot;)
	{
		SendPlay some keystroke
		Gosub LCtrl
	}
	else if ErrorLevel = Timeout
		done := 1
	else if StrLen(chord) = 1
		Send ^%chord%
	else
		done := 1
	return
LCtrl UP::
	if done = 0
		Send {esc}
	return

Honestly though, I don't find the concept convincing. Not only do you suggest to use multiple keys to generate a single other, you're also increasing same-finger ratio in the process.

Teal · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 10 August 2011, 08:26:24 »

Quote from: Findecanor;320581

A chorded keyboard needs to allow the keys in all chords to be entered simultaneously. Unfortunately, that is uncommon on cheap numpads and keyboards.
You should read up on this forum on "n-key rollover" (NKRO).
Chording with the left hand on the left side of a keyboard might work on a gaming-optimized keyboard without NKRO, if you can find a lucky combination of keys on that board.

SDFJKL, at least, would have wider support than any other random set of keys as it's used for six-key braille input. It wouldn't cost much to make a chording keyboard aside from the PCB, though, and there's always the possibility of mounting the keys on a plate and using wires to connect things together.

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 13 August 2011, 17:17:31 »

If someone's gonna chord to type, wouldn't it be somewhat worth it to spend a little time learning some Steno theory like Phoenix (or something more brief intensive and less stroke intensive)? People like to say it takes at minimum 2 years to really be proficient at true stenotyping, but I know of people who have reached 225 wpm average in just a year and a half of training.

Then the problem becomes the cost of equipment and software, right? Well, people must not know about Plover. It's a work in progress freeware for Linux that turns any computer keyboard into a steno machine keyboard (and the capability of N Key rollover for some keyboards makes it incredibly similar).

I just feel like all the effort of creating individual briefs/strokes/chords is already something ingrained in the standard Steno theory, but you're given an advantage in that a steno dictionary and software is available for free now (and you can edit strokes to your individual preferences of course).

I'm always fascinated by the fastest input methods.

AUAnonymous · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:20:15 »

Quote from: Playtrumpet;398389

If someone's gonna chord to type, wouldn't it be somewhat worth it to spend a little time learning some Steno theory like Phoenix (or something more brief intensive and less stroke intensive)? People like to say it takes at minimum 2 years to really be proficient at true stenotyping, but I know of people who have reached 225 wpm average in just a year and a half of training.

Then the problem becomes the cost of equipment and software, right? Well, people must not know about Plover. It's a work in progress freeware for Linux that turns any computer keyboard into a steno machine keyboard (and the capability of N Key rollover for some keyboards makes it incredibly similar).

I just feel like all the effort of creating individual briefs/strokes/chords is already something ingrained in the standard Steno theory, but you're given an advantage in that a steno dictionary and software is available for free now (and you can edit strokes to your individual preferences of course).

I'm always fascinated by the fastest input methods.

Thanks for the link, it seems pretty interesting. I'm reinstalling Linux right now just so I can give it a try.

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #11 on:** Sun, 14 August 2011, 13:41:24 »

Quote from: AUAnonymous;398527

Thanks for the link, it seems pretty interesting. I'm reinstalling Linux right now just so I can give it a try.

I installed and ran Linux just to try it out and, never having tried actual stenotyping, I was pretty baffled. The author included her personal steno library (which is mostly standard with a few of her modifications for punctuation I believe), but anyone can edit the dictionary to their taste which stenographers are accustomed to doing anyway. I haven't gone forward learning steno only because I'm not ready to invest the time and I'd love to see Plover coded to run on Mac or Windows natively rather than running on a separate Linux window.

But anyway, it's definitely worth checking out I think.

AUAnonymous · « **Reply #12 on:** Sun, 14 August 2011, 17:01:36 »

It's definitely a big time investment to learn, even more so than learning a new layout like Colemak or Dvorak, although the eventual speed payoff is much greater. It's also a far less portable skill considering Plover is only available for Linux right now. It seems like it would only really be worth it to use if you happen to already know steno or are extremely dedicated to learning it.

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 14 August 2011, 19:26:42 »

That's exactly it. I won't be ready to make that big investment until Plover is ready for Windows and Mac. For now, I'm still learning Dvorak so 1 new input at a time is all I really want to invest in.

Proword · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 00:36:31 »

Just using standard Word Processing software (WordPerfect is best for it) you can create your own stenotype system.

http://proword-transcription.blogspot.com/

Though I use a Maltron keyboard, it will work with any layout.

As a court reporter I can use it to transcribe a single (clear) speaker in real time.

I've not found any software in Linux or Mac that can be adapted.

Joe

AUAnonymous · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 00:50:11 »

Having given Plover a try on a couple different distros, I think I can say that it is either broken or I truly have no idea how to use it (far more likely). I keep on getting unexpected results on even the sample words. I think for now I'll stick to learning Colemak, which I think you'd find easier to learn and use than Dvorak, Playtrumpet.

bpiphany · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 03:25:49 »

Quote from: AUAnonymous;398907

It's also a far less portable skill[...]

Imagine building a custom chording keyboard with a programmable controller. All the chording could be done in the keyboard itself =)

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 13:59:10 »

Quote from: AUAnonymous;399111

Having given Plover a try on a couple different distros, I think I can say that it is either broken or I truly have no idea how to use it (far more likely). I keep on getting unexpected results on even the sample words. I think for now I'll stick to learning Colemak, which I think you'd find easier to learn and use than Dvorak, Playtrumpet.

Oh, I'm certain there are plenty of little errors in the programming since it's still in its development stages, though it's important to make sure to test each key to make sure everything is lined up, and of course 6KRO or NKRO is necessary for some strokes to come through. You'd have to mail the creator about any unexpected steno turnouts.

As for Dvorak vs Colemak, I chose Dvorak because it uses less of the bottom row than Colemak and it uses less same-hand strokes. And at this point, with just one month of learning and using Dvorak, I have progressed faster than I've seen reported elsewhere for most any person learning any layout. The layout debate will always be an ongoing one though..

AUAnonymous · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 14:18:33 »

My keyboard has full NKRO, so that's not the problem. As I said, it's probably just user error because I doubt the program would give precedence to "sa" over "as" at this relatively late-ish stage in development.

As for Colemak, I'm just in it for the keyboard shortcuts

(Ctrl-Z/X/C/V). That and the positioning of 'l' and 's' on Dvorak makes my right pinky finger

(try typing "walls", "calls", "falls" etc.). It's not a huge deal, but a small annoyance.

Playtrumpet · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 15:25:02 »

Yeah, I notice some people don't like using the pinkies for l and s which is definitely understandable. I primarily use Mac which gives the option for your layout to be Dvorak yet retain Qwerty shortcuts which is really helpful.

Sigh. I remember being obsessed with anything Steno. Now I seem to have less motivation.

AUAnonymous · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 15 August 2011, 16:05:22 »

I had no idea you could do that with Mac OS, that sounds pretty useful. Can you do that with any layout?

That's the perpetual problem: it's easy to become obsessed, but hard to stay interested.

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Author Topic: Chording on a standard keyboard? (Read 13145 times)