Author Topic: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO (Read 80129 times)

8_INCH_FLOPPY · « **Reply #60 on:** Fri, 06 May 2011, 16:33:58 »

I caved and ordered a couple. Maybe I can recoup the cost of one by selling the other after I get them both working. I think the price of ibm terminal keyboards if about to skyrocket...

Oqsy · « **Reply #61 on:** Sat, 07 May 2011, 03:09:28 »

Repeat that enough times in the right places and they will. However, this is still DIY and will scare away many that don't want the hassle or clutter. Prices *should* remain sane.

8_INCH_FLOPPY · « **Reply #62 on:** Sat, 07 May 2011, 12:37:29 »

Not if I build a bunch and sell them. Muahahahaha.

Hak Foo · « **Reply #63 on:** Sat, 07 May 2011, 23:57:45 »

To me, the logical endgame of this project is to eventually develop a small-run PCB where you can attach a teensy and your choice of the needed connectors and get a really professional job. while the hand-soldered one works fine, it hardly looks like a robust professional 'take the 122 to the office and show it off' product.

From there, redesign so the $20 Teensy is replaced with just the surface-mounted atmel chip, send the design to China, and get the retail price down to like USD20.

The gamers will have a stroke-- an NKRO adapter for their old precious PS/2 boards, and their sales will bankroll development.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #64 on:** Sun, 08 May 2011, 04:49:34 »

Of course, in my case, I just mounted the Teensy internally. That way, it looks like it was USB from the factory.

Mr. Perfect · « **Reply #65 on:** Mon, 09 May 2011, 08:59:12 »

Ok, here's a question that probably hasn't come up before: can USB keyboards be hooked up to this controller to achieve NKRO? I'm thinking of all the Filcos, Leopolds, Decks, etc that achieve NKRO when plugged into a PS/2 port with one of those USB to PS/2 adapters. Clearly the keyboard can handle NKRO, but the traditional USB hookup limits it to 6KRO.

Quote from: Hak Foo;343202

To me, the logical endgame of this project is to eventually develop a small-run PCB where you can attach a teensy and your choice of the needed connectors and get a really professional job..

Now that's a good idea. Even a do it yourself soldering kit would be great, people wouldn't have to hunt down all of the individual parts.

Soarer · « **Reply #66 on:** Mon, 09 May 2011, 09:45:00 »

Quote from: Mr. Perfect;343753

Ok, here's a question that probably hasn't come up before: can USB keyboards be hooked up to this controller to achieve NKRO? I'm thinking of all the Filcos, Leopolds, Decks, etc that achieve NKRO when plugged into a PS/2 port with one of those USB to PS/2 adapters. Clearly the keyboard can handle NKRO, but the traditional USB hookup limits it to 6KRO.

Yes, it should work fine! (I'm sure someone did ask that before, but maybe not in this thread

).

Mr. Perfect · « **Reply #67 on:** Mon, 09 May 2011, 12:36:03 »

That's great news. So to wire a female USB socket to the controller you just match up power, ground, and the data lines and it's good to go?

The best possible version would have three inputs, a DIN, PS/2 and USB. Then you could plug in any keyboard capable of NKRO and get USB on any OS. :music:

Soarer · « **Reply #68 on:** Mon, 09 May 2011, 13:03:23 »

I don't know how the passive USB to PS/2 adapters are wired up though - either probe one or toss a coin ;-)

Soarer · « **Reply #69 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 18:19:52 »

New version (v0.994) posted which adds suspend and wake-up support!

Many thanks to intealls for his help with testing on OS-X, discussing the problems, and unwittingly providing motivation :-)

Essentially the changes are that the converter now tracks when it has been suspended by the host, or is in the process of waking up, and takes measures to avoid the situations that sometimes resulted in repeating or stuck keys after exiting the suspended state.

Also, it now sends a remote wake-up signal to the host when a key is pressed while it is suspended, to bring the computer out of stand-by/sleep.

slueth · « **Reply #70 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 23:28:58 »

Soarer, you are amazing!

intealls · « **Reply #71 on:** Thu, 12 May 2011, 19:26:19 »

Heh, no problem, just glad I was able to help

You're the one doing the awesome work, and we should all be grateful for it!

Soarer · « **Reply #72 on:** Thu, 12 May 2011, 20:16:55 »

Well this phase is really a shakedown, making sure that reliability is top notch before adding more features... and I can't do that all by myself

BTW, the problem when pressing lots of keys to wake-up got fixed too - the debug channel was filling up with stuff it couldn't send.

Voixdelion · « **Reply #73 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 05:30:01 »

Okay, I just kind of skimmed the discussion because it was all rather technical for me, I see the "DIY" letters which has me a bit frightened and also the word "expensive" - but I was considering the $100 price tag for the converter that was no longer available, so I guess it's all relative ... How expensive are we talking here? $20? The other scary word was "Programming" considering the previous mention of "DIY project" but I've held on to my F-XT in case some way to make use of it ever came to fruition; has this happened? I could offer my services for a cooperative effort in assembling these on the electrical/soldering side (which I am reasonably confident about being able to do) if someone else will do the chip programming (which I know nothing about at all)

Can someone do an Inigo Montoya -like encapsulation of the last page and a half for me? ("Let me explain-- no, there is too much . . . Let me sum up: Buttercup is marry Humperdink in little less then half an hour so all we have to do is get in, break up the wedding, steal the princess, make our escape... after I kill count Rugen.")

bhtooefr · « **Reply #74 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 05:50:03 »

Soarer is developing the firmware, you buy a Teensy or Teensy++, you can get one without pins and solder wires to it, or get one with pins, stick it in a breadboard with the appropriate connector, and jumper wires to it. Plug the wires into the appropriate pins on the Model F's controller, or plug the Model F's connector into the circuit.

Plug it into USB, run the Teensy loader, push the button, flash the firmware. Then reboot the Teensy. Done.

Soarer · « **Reply #75 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 06:32:34 »

Basic shopping list:

Teensy 2.0 - $16
Socket (for keyboard) - $1
Wire
USB cable (with mini-B connector)

Optional items, as desired:

3x LEDs
3x Resistors for LEDs (value depends on the LEDs)
2x 1k Resistors (for pull-ups)
Box

To assemble it just needs a few wires soldering. bhtooefr is right, there's lots of ways you could choose to build it and case it, and that's partly why I haven't done a demo build yet - I can't decide which way I want to do it

'Programming the chip' in this sense just means installing the hex file onto the Teensy, and that's made easier than burning a CD by the Teensy loader.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #76 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 06:40:26 »

And, my build didn't even use the socket, due to how I installed mine.

intealls · « **Reply #77 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 09:14:55 »

Here's my highly ghettoish solution (I HATE that movie btw)

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 18098[/ATTACH]

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 18100[/ATTACH]

I plan to build a proper version sometime by using one of these, can't seem to find PS/2 sockets that can be properly aligned to an experiment board though :/

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 18099[/ATTACH]

ch_123 · « **Reply #78 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 17:12:42 »

Quote from: ripster;345731

Sounds a teensy bit complicated to me.

Things often get more difficult to comprehend as you grow older.

slueth · « **Reply #79 on:** Fri, 13 May 2011, 23:06:52 »

Not that hard as long as you can understand the pinouts. Make sure you are looking at the picture in the right point of view. Either way, after messing around and sticking things in holes, I got it to work.

8_INCH_FLOPPY · « **Reply #80 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 00:04:49 »

Quote from: Neit;339968

Hi Soarer,

I would like to wire your converter with both DIN and PS/2 connectors.
Since I'm pretty noob in electronics, I need some advice here.

Is it OK to wire the teensy and connectors like this ?
(followed your instructions on the article and of course I will use DIN OR PS/2, not both at the same time).
Show Image

Hope that I can.
Oh, and thank you for your great work, I may "resurrect" a terminal keyboard that probably use XT protocol.

Is that the same as the XT pinout? I wired it up to my XT keyboard like that and it is not currently working. The led on the board just lights up whenever I press a key.

slueth · « **Reply #81 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 02:08:19 »

I used this

with the information from the article:
Conn. Teensy
GND -------- GND
Vcc/+5V ---- Vcc
Data ------- PD0
Clock ------ PD1

Oqsy · « **Reply #82 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 02:29:04 »

Voix: I have this connected to a 122 Terminal F from the acfrazier group buy. Really not hard at all. I got a breadboard from RadioShack for a couple bucks, a teensy++ with pins preinstalled, and a DIN socket with pins for PCB mounting.

The teensy pins are pushed into the breadboard, as well as the DIN socket. Make sure you have the right pinout for the socket that matches your keyboard cable. Wire up the pins on the bottom of the breadboard to match the diagrams earlier in this thread. Connect the USB cable to the teensy's jack and yr PC, then run the firmware loader, open Soarer's file, click the icon to "download", ie "flash" to the teensy. Click the icon to reboot the teensy. Done. Your board now works via USB, and where available, has full NKRO

There's no need to fear, this is easy and fun! Join the freenode IRC chat #geekhack and you will surely find a few of us using these that can talk you through it if you hit a snag.

One thing to note, mine is not soldered anywhere, and is currently connected with alligator "test" clips until I decide how to house it permanently. Not recommended since shorting the wrong pins/wires COULD do harm to your hardware, but if small enough clips are used, it IS workable temporarily until you or an electronics savvy buddy are ready to solder it up.

Soarer · « **Reply #83 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 07:04:23 »

The most common mistake so far is wiring the socket backwards - it's important to note whether a diagram shows the front or back view of the socket. Which is why I prefer something like Neit's revised diagram or this one from kbdbabel:

8_INCH_FLOPPY: doing that on an XT connector would swap Vcc and GND, so unlikely to give an output at all. Could it be that you just have clock and data swapped over?

kishy · « **Reply #84 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 10:25:28 »

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 18121[/ATTACH]

Please feel free to pop this into the article if you like...

Voixdelion · « **Reply #85 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 12:21:44 »

kewl. will definitely try this...soon

Neit · « **Reply #86 on:** Sun, 15 May 2011, 13:10:20 »

Finally done mine, 0.994 working perfectly with my cherry 81-3000 (yes MY switches are a pain).
Unfortunately, couldn't resurrect the 122 keyboard, don't know what to do or think, broken? another protocol?
I'll go back where I found it to try some others KBs.

Didn't make the hole for the PS/2 at the moment, will do when needed.

Quote from: Soarer;343914

I don't know how the passive USB to PS/2 adapters are wired up though - either probe one or toss a coin ;-)

Got one somewhere, can check it if you want.

One question: During my final test after soldering, I tried pushing multiples keys to check how much my KB can handle. At a moment the teensy LED lightened up and turned off just after realising the keys. Did you implemented it or the teensy froze ?

slueth · « **Reply #87 on:** Sun, 15 May 2011, 16:53:29 »

It shouldn't light up, if it lights up there was a problem. Should handle nkro.
Correct me if I am wrong.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #88 on:** Sun, 15 May 2011, 16:54:55 »

If the keyboard itself doesn't handle NKRO, though, there's a problem, and it'll light up.

Soarer · « **Reply #89 on:** Sun, 15 May 2011, 18:00:16 »

I don't think the lack of NKRO is a factor here - the keyboard is still capable of tracking lots of keypresses as long as they don't trigger the anti-ghosting or whatever, and in most cases that wouldn't light the Teensy's LED.

I think this is the keyboard's buffer filling up, at which point it sends a code saying that it has overflowed. The converter then clears the state of all keys and lights its LED for a 5 seconds. In nearly all cases where the LED lights up, the converter solves the problem so you don't notice anything bad happen :-)

I've noticed this a lot while testing, particularly when releasing many keys, and there's two reasons for that: first, you are more likely to release them all within a very short time than when pressing them, and second, for scan code sets 2 and 3, there are at least two bytes placed into the buffer for each key release, making much more likely to overflow the buffer.

As for that 122, I'm afraid I have no idea

It could be a different protocol, or possibly the connector just isn't wired the same as a normal XT/AT board, or both.

News:

Author Topic: XT/AT/PS2/Terminal to USB Converter with NKRO (Read 80129 times)