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Author Topic: Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing  (Read 7072 times)

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Offline The Solutor

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 21:00:26 »
Quote from: ripster;350440
You are a master of wildass theories.

 unlike you I'm used to open my mouth when I've something of intelligent to say.

in this case is not theory, simply I've tried.
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Offline bonecandy

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 21:29:38 »
Quote from: ripster;350496
WAIT!  MY Gen 2 Red Cherry doesn't have any ringing either.

Gen1=Gen2.

Haha, well, I want to increase my chances of getting one without any ringing by getting something as different as possible. Also, so far it seems that most people that have had this problem had Filcos with brown switches. I don't think i've seen anyone with blue or red switches with serious ringing issues.
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Leopold | Filco Tenkeyless

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 857
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 22:07:59 »
You may use a head phone and listen to your favorite bands during typing.
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Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown, Noppoo Choc Blue, Noppoo Choc Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline drsauced

  • Posts: 147
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 22:26:09 »
My Leo with blues also rings, but unlike some of you OCD types, I actually like the sound.  Somewhat therapeutic.

[video=youtube;8QApvw2c8NQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QApvw2c8NQ[/video]
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Filco Ninja 104 Tactile w/PBT caps | Deck Legend Ice Linear | EK Order: #9001, #5640 | \'93 1391401 | Ping is Life

Offline bonecandy

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 22:34:35 »
Quote from: drsauced;350533
My Leo with blues also rings, but unlike some of you OCD types, I actually like the sound.  Somewhat therapeutic.

[video=youtube;8QApvw2c8NQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QApvw2c8NQ[/video]

You're crazy
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Leopold | Filco Tenkeyless

Offline mmmty

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 23:06:22 »
I once set up my PC so that every time I hit a key it would make a sound (cow, dog, cat, horn, barf, fart, whatever). Each key would make a different sound. Now imagine you're typing a sentence...
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I HATE KEYBOARDS W/ BLUES

Offline The Solutor

  • Posts: 2800
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 00:34:30 »
Quote from: ripster;350560
Those are built at the Helen Keller School Of Soldering.

 
Hahaha, Where no fanboy has gone before :pound:


More or less all industrial plate mounted keyboards are affected, try to find a ringing keyboard when the switches are swapped and carefully soldered by an hobbyist.
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Offline The Solutor

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 00:46:16 »
Quote from: ripster;350577
Does the hobbyist have to be Italian too?

 
I' think that even in S. Francisco melting 4 soldering point should be quicker than criticize w/o any clue. And the Italian saint is just a coincidence.
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Offline The Solutor

  • Posts: 2800
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 02:01:18 »
Quote
To the OP.

 Before sending the keyboard back or trying to resolder the pinging switches I'd try putting it on a Super XXL mousemat or rubber mesh drawer liner.

 You'd be amazed how the acoustics of what's underneath the keyboard can change things.


Yes it works.

The hard part is just explaining to the mousemat to dampen the sound of just two or three keys...:smokin:
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Offline bonecandy

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 31 May 2011, 19:12:52 »
Holy crap. I just got my Mj1. This feels a million times better than my MJ2. The MJ2 just felt a little loose. It's also much quieter overall, and best of all there appears to be very minimal ring to it :D. yay!
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Leopold | Filco Tenkeyless

Offline SecrtAgentMan

  • Posts: 122
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 03 June 2011, 19:45:24 »
So any solution to this?

My MJ2 with Reds has the "ping" noise on the home and left arrow key.

No big but I'd just like to fix it if possible.
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Offline The Solutor

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 03 June 2011, 19:51:16 »
Quote
So any solution to this?


Read the thread solution is already given.
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Online rsantos97

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 03 June 2011, 21:10:17 »
Can someone make an audio recording of what this pinging sound is?
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Offline bonecandy

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 03 June 2011, 21:17:42 »
Quote from: rsantos97;355387
Can someone make an audio recording of what this pinging sound is?
Oh man I should've done that. Too late now, I already sent back my MJ2.
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Leopold | Filco Tenkeyless

Online rsantos97

  • Posts: 109
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 04 June 2011, 13:27:16 »
Quote from: bonecandy;355388
Oh man I should've done that. Too late now, I already sent back my MJ2.

Can anyone else who notices this ring upload a recording? I don't notice it on my MJ2 and maybe it's because it isn't there or I hear it and am assuming it is suppose to sound like that.  I just want to make sure I don't have that issue on my keyboard.
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Offline uphillcastle

  • Posts: 29
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #45 on: Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:04:59 »
mine PINGS real bad :( especially on the page up key for some reason? Even with the mouse pad underneath
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:08:07 by uphillcastle »
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Offline uphillcastle

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #46 on: Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:23:21 »
Now I opened up the filco keypuller that came with the keyboard and its dirty. I guess that means I cant send the keyboard back?
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Offline uphillcastle

  • Posts: 29
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:29:20 »
i stuck it in my earhole. But I cleaned it good. So no RMA?
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Offline uphillcastle

  • Posts: 29
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:35:31 »
i am in the uk...i just opened up the filco key puller to have a look at it...I havent changed any keys or anything. But theres this one key on my ninja keyboard and it PINGS like a goddamn cashier till or something. Not sure what to do...
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Offline uphillcastle

  • Posts: 29
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 04 June 2011, 16:42:54 »
Quote from: ripster;355652
Like a cash machine?
.

 
Well not quite like a cash machine...wish i had a way to record it...
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Offline redpill

  • Posts: 774
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 14:29:26 »
I just got a Majestouch-2 with Browns, and I can hear what people are talking about.  However, I believe the reason is actually the acoustics of the keycaps magnifying the spring noise when the sound waves bounce back across the metal plate.  To test this, I stuffed some bits of soft paper towel into one of the key caps, just enough to deaden the acoustics but not enough to interfere with the action of the key.  The result?  The ping becomes inaudible.  This also is consistent with some folks saying the ping is louder on larger keys.  That's because the internal acoustics of the larger keycaps make it more audible.

Based on this experience, I don't believe resoldering the switch is going to make a difference.
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Offline redpill

  • Posts: 774
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 14:43:20 »
Well, are there any notable differences in the construction between Gen1 and Gen2?  Could the keycaps weigh less?  Thus the springs pushes them up more easily, resulting in the resonance after they fully pop back up?
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^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded Keycaps |  Ducky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline redpill

  • Posts: 774
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 14:54:26 »
Only seems to happen when bottoming out also.  I wonder if those pads from EK or the silicone washers would make a difference.

I'll be able to test different keycaps also when the engraved PBT keys arrive.
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^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded Keycaps |  Ducky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline skamtet

  • Posts: 3
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 19:50:25 »
So the Filco Majestouch 2 with blue switches don't have this problem?
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Offline ambroise

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 19:59:57 »
So does that mean Leopold are better?




I'm confused...
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Offline sordna

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:28:08 »
The ringing has to do with the switch, not the keyboard. The spring just so happens to oscillate differently from switch to switch. It comes with the territory of mechanical switches, just get over it, turn up the music, or go back to membranes. The keyboards are perfectly fine.
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline redpill

  • Posts: 774
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 23:18:54 »
Quote from: sordna;357620
The ringing has to do with the switch, not the keyboard. The spring just so happens to oscillate differently from switch to switch. It comes with the territory of mechanical switches, just get over it, turn up the music, or go back to membranes. The keyboards are perfectly fine.

Uh, well I have two keyboards on my work desk.  One is a KBC Poker with MX Browns that just clicks, and one is a Filco Majestouch 2 with MX Browns that rings like a tuning fork.  So no, it's not the switch.  It's the interaction of the switch with the metal plate, because the acoustics of the keycaps and the metal plate make a distinctive ping that does not exist on a keyboard without the metal plate.  I don't find it annoying, but it's definitely there.  Maybe prior versions of the Filco board don't have it, I have no idea, I'm just telling you what is.

It definitely is resonating across the metal plate, because I can listen to different places on the keyboard while hitting the escape key and it sounds like the sound is coming directly from under my ear.  There is some dynamic occurring wherein the metal plate of the Filco is magnifying the sound of the spring along with the natural acoustics of the keycaps.  Maybe it's Solutor's soldering issue, maybe it's something else, I don't know.  But it's definitely there.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 June 2011, 23:29:44 by redpill »
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^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded Keycaps |  Ducky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline The Solutor

  • Posts: 2800
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 03:40:22 »
Quote
Maybe it's Solutor's soldering issue


If the switch is not tightly coupled with the plate, the dampening effect represented by the contact of two or more materials with different resonating frequencies is attenuated or missing.

Likely you never touched an old Italian £ 500 coin



but maybe you have touched one of 1 or 2 euro



 which uses the same bimetallic technology.

Well those coins doesn't "ding" like any other coins, exactly for this reason: the two metals are tightly coupled and have different resonating frequency, slightly different in the euro coins case (two different kind of Cupronickel alloys)  greatly in the Italian one (bronzital and stainless steel).

So Soldering correctly the switches have the same effect on plate mounted boards.
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 June 2011, 03:44:43 by The Solutor »
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Offline sordna

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Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 21:51:24 »
Solutor,
I don't think soldering has anything to do with it. I have some pinging keys, both frame and pcb mount, and even if I remove the keycap, and squeeze the switch body as hard as I can with my fingers to eliminate any vibration, it still pings.  It's the spring that's vibrating, not the switch body.
Did you honestly resolder switches and found it resolves the sound issue, or is it just speculation on your part ?
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline The Solutor

  • Posts: 2800
Filco majestouch2 brown metallic ringing
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 01:25:30 »
Quote from: sordna;358207
Solutor,
I don't think soldering has anything to do with it. I have some pinging keys, both frame and pcb mount, and even if I remove the keycap, and squeeze the switch body as hard as I can with my fingers to eliminate any vibration, it still pings.  It's the spring that's vibrating, not the switch body.
Did you honestly resolder switches and found it resolves the sound issue, or is it just speculation on your part ?

 
I don't think is the spring that pings, rather the springy part of the contact, the point where the sound originates.

Whatever the origin is the plate helps to transmit that sound and the space between PCB and plate acts as a resonating chamber.

BTW resolder a switch is a so quick task that is quicker to try than to discuss endlessly w/o trying anything else.

In the worst is matter of 5 minutes wasted.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 June 2011, 01:27:41 by The Solutor »
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