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Author Topic: A sad day in Filco Ninja Land  (Read 29977 times)

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Offline penpoints

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:32:24 »
I ordered TWO Filco Majestouch-2 tenkeyless Ninja keyboards, with mx browns, from Amazon. They arrived yesterday, and at first I was thrilled to get these beautiful keyboards.

Then, after some testing, I noticed... PING!, BOING!, ZING! - actually just the same ringing tone, with varying degrees of loudness, when releasing the Back Space, Enter, and other keys in that general area. That's where it's the worst, but the whole board has this "feature" - and both keyboards do it, in exactly the same way.

How much $$$ have I spent on BOOKS from Amazon over the years? I don't want to think about that, but this will be my FIRST return to Amazon, ever - so they'd better take them back.

Anyway, maybe I just got two lemons, by coincidence. But I don't think so. I'll bet they're all like this, at least the browns. Actually it's not that loud, just mostly annoying. I once had a 1st-generation Matias Tactile Pro (sold) that was like a miniature percussion band: clicking, clacking, pinging and squeaking - what a racket!
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Favorite keyboards:
---
Topre Realforce 87U Tenkeyless (gray/black; variable weight)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless (Cherry MX Blue)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless "Otaku" (Cherry MX Brown)

Offline noodles256

  • Posts: 2961
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:33:59 »
stabilizers tend to make noise. Mine don't make that kind of noise.

Sorry to hear the bad news, good luck on your return.

inb4 viper2 bashes Filco quality
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Offline kriminal

  • Posts: 822
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:35:20 »
filco Ninja keyboards????
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Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline penpoints

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:44:28 »
Quote from: noodles256;357538
stabilizers tend to make noise. Mine don't make that kind of noise.

Sorry to hear the bad news, good luck on your return.

inb4 viper2 bashes Filco quality


It's coming from the switches themselves. To prove this, I removed the Back Space keycap, held the switch down and released it quickly: there's a loud PING. Nearby switches have it almost as bad, and the whole keyboard has this problem to a lesser degree. It's exactly the same with both keyboards (Filco Majestouch-2 Tenkeyless Ninja, brown switches, purchased from Amazon.com).
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Favorite keyboards:
---
Topre Realforce 87U Tenkeyless (gray/black; variable weight)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless (Cherry MX Blue)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless "Otaku" (Cherry MX Brown)

Offline hyperlinked

  • Posts: 1503
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 18:50:32 »
I don't have a Ninja, but if they're anything like the Majestouches, the noise is from a combination of the switches and the steel plate mounting. There have been reports of this being a problem for people before in the past.

A lot of mechanical keyboards make noise like this. Model M's have a really loud ping.
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-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline flaming_june

  • Posts: 205
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 19:39:37 »
Kinda regretting getting rid of all three of my first gens.
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Offline penpoints

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 19:45:07 »
Quote from: ripster;357575
BTW I just stick my keyboards on a SuperXXL Mousemat.  You'd be surprised the difference.

Have you considered listening to a lot of Death Metal?


I just subjected my Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless (1st generation), mx brown switches, to the same test. I removed the Back Space keycap, held the switch down and released it quickly, several times: instead of a loud PING there's just a dull click. Of course that's how it should sound.

Putting the new keyboards on a sound-deadening pad made no appreciable difference. There's still a loud ping.

These two keyboards (Filco Majestouch-2 Tenkeyless Ninja, mx browns) will be returned tomorrow. They are defective. This was just a heads-up for you guys. Maybe I got the only two lemons in the bunch. Who knows?
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Favorite keyboards:
---
Topre Realforce 87U Tenkeyless (gray/black; variable weight)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless (Cherry MX Blue)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless "Otaku" (Cherry MX Brown)

Offline Wallach

  • Posts: 142
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:05:14 »
My first experience with a Filco was a MJ2 tenkeyless with browns myself (from the first Amazon batch) and I returned it for the exact same reason. It wasn't something I'd consider minor, the backspace and arrow keys were really loud. I had a Daskeyboard S to compare it to at the time it arrived and the Daskeyboard made no such noise whatsoever on any of the keys. I wouldn't blame you for sending them back for that if it was anywhere as loud as mine.
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Offline substract

  • Posts: 18
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:29:12 »
I have a filco brown coming from amazon and these threads scare me.
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Offline sordna

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:29:46 »
The keyboard is not defective, the noise comes from the springs inside the cherry switches. It comes with the territory of mechanical switches. Get over it and don't return perfectly fine keyboards.
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline mmmty

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 20:53:23 »
I have:
Filco gen 1 brown - no ping
Filco gen 1 blue - no ping
Filco gen 2 red - ping
Filco gen 2 TKL brown - no ping (so far)
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I HATE KEYBOARDS W/ BLUES

Offline canon.tk

  • Posts: 199
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:09:20 »
My 87 Filco Ninja with browns from Amazon doesn't make any pinging sounds at all.  I've heard Filco boards make that sound so I know what it is, and mine doesn't do it.  And I've tested for it.

The Filco Ninja is a perfectly fine keyboard.  Sometimes things like this happens.
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Filco Majestouch 104 Cherry MX Black; Filco Majestouch 87 Ninja Cherry MX Brown; Filco Majestouch Indigo Blue 104 Cherry MX Brown; Filco Majestouch 2 104 Cherry MX Red; Leopold 87 Otaku Cherry MX Brown; Leopold 87 Cherry MX Brown; Razer Black Widow Ultimate

Offline hobojelloz

  • Posts: 25
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:16:05 »
I got my Filco Ninja brown today and I don't notice any difference in sounds with the keys mentioned by other people. However, this is my first mechanical keyboard and I'm not too sure what the ping's or ding's or pong's should sound like entirely. I love this keyboard and don't plan on returning it any time soon.
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Offline penpoints

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:52:26 »
Quote from: ripster;357671
These PING! threads come up every 6 months or so.

You'll notice PING! has been in the Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide Glossary (sticky above) since the beginning.

I'd say it's as significant a problem as shiny spacebars.


If there's ambient sound - talking, music or whatever - then the pinging isn't such a big deal. But in a quiet room it's deadly. Ping, ping, ping, ping... This isn't normal at all.

There's a HUGE difference between the quiet clicking of my first-generation Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless keyboards (brown switches) and the noise from the two second-generation keyboards that arrived yesterday. The new ones are certainly defective - but judging from some of the other comments, it seems like there are some good ones out there, in the exact same model. Good luck finding them.
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Favorite keyboards:
---
Topre Realforce 87U Tenkeyless (gray/black; variable weight)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless (Cherry MX Blue)
Filco Majestouch (1st gen.) Tenkeyless "Otaku" (Cherry MX Brown)

Online keyboardlover

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:56:34 »
It's definitely a significant issue. I had a tenkeyless with browns before and sold it because I couldn't stand that annoying ping sound.
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Offline noodles256

  • Posts: 2961
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 21:57:22 »
I have a majestouch 1 with blues.

No pinging unless you count the asians playing ping pong on it.
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Offline Tony

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:20:22 »
If someone is too sensitive to keyboard sounds, then a headphone with music is the best solution.

I have a Filco Majestic 1 brown and sometimes the sound is very metallic ping too, compared with my old Compaq MX11800 brown. I also have a shiny Space keycap after 6 months of heavy use.

All that is fine to me since the key switches and typing feel are the same. I consider keycaps and typing sounds less important.
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Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown, Noppoo Choc Blue, Noppoo Choc Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Online keyboardlover

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:28:53 »
I'm curious how many people have experienced this "ping" so I created a poll here:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18739-Have-you-experienced-the-Filco-quot-ping-quot-noise
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Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2707
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:36:18 »
What about pings on other boards? It's not particular to Filco. It's a characteristic of the cherry MX switch. However different boards may amplify the sound in different ways. I would not call it a defect however, you may get the sound even though the keyboard manufacturer did nothing wrong.
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline canon.tk

  • Posts: 199
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 22:49:32 »
I can hear the springs doing the ping sound on my Leopold with browns but I doesn't resonate across the board like I've heard a Filco do.
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Filco Majestouch 104 Cherry MX Black; Filco Majestouch 87 Ninja Cherry MX Brown; Filco Majestouch Indigo Blue 104 Cherry MX Brown; Filco Majestouch 2 104 Cherry MX Red; Leopold 87 Otaku Cherry MX Brown; Leopold 87 Cherry MX Brown; Razer Black Widow Ultimate

Offline sixty

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 23:22:49 »
Quote from: ripster;357724
I betcha a little foam type padding under the PCB would also go a long way in reducing this.  The case acts like a guitar soundbox.

 
This. A little bit of foam or "rubber" can fix the problem. I currently use some rubber-foam called "Rutsch Stop". CeeSa has also previously used this to reduce noise and soften switch landing. I wrote a rough guide (for another keyboard) on how to best use the stuff, it should work for the Filco as well:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?13165-Fix-G80-3000-(and-probably-G81-1800)-flexing
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Offline redpill

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 08 June 2011, 23:39:25 »
Quote from: ripster;357724
I betcha a little foam type padding under the PCB would also go a long way in reducing this.  The case acts like a guitar soundbox.

The case is involved but the metal plate itself is really the source, it rings like a tuning fork.
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^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded Keycaps |  Ducky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2

Offline flaming_june

  • Posts: 205
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 01:23:32 »
Quote from: noodles256;357698
I have a majestouch 1 with blues.

No pinging unless you count the asians playing ping pong on it.

Hey one joke over the line sweet jesus, one joke over the line.
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Offline litster

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 02:11:33 »
noodle is originated from China, like many of the keyboards and keycaps we buy.  8 bits == 1 byte represents 256 variations. Take a byte of noodle. :-)
« Last Edit: Thu, 09 June 2011, 02:15:51 by litster »
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Offline nhwhaup

  • Posts: 296
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 03:05:15 »
I have a tenkeyless Filco with reds that I bought through the keyboard co and I have no pinging at all. I tried putting my ear right down and releasing the keys and spacebar quickly and absolutely no pinging.  I also have the full-sized version at work and that one I purchased off Amazon but also via the keyboard co.  I haven't noticed any pinging but I'll really check it out today when I get to work. I do know that the keys seemed to have a different sound on some of the keys after I switched the keycaps to PBT ones.
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Current in order of preference:  RealForce 87U Silent White with variable weighted keys X 2, Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless with Linear Reds, Filco Number-pad, Poker with Linear Reds

Sold or returned:  Multiple Microsoft and Logitech keyboards, Das Keyboard Silent, Cherry 6140, RealForce 103UB, RealForce 86U, Filco Majestouch 2 full sized with Linear Reds

Offline Surly73

  • Posts: 496
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 06:03:26 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;357716
I'm curious how many people have experienced this "ping" so I created a poll here:

 
Do we have a recording of a reference sample?  Sometimes I'd say I hear a "clink" from some of the stabilized keys on my MJ-1 w/ browns but certainly not any undampened ringing like "piiiiing" implies.
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Online keyboardlover

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 06:48:16 »
That's a good point. Folks with ping-y boards: let's get some audio samples uploaded!
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Offline Wallach

  • Posts: 142
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 07:04:32 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;357811
That's a good point. Folks with ping-y boards: let's get some audio samples uploaded!

I would if I hadn't sent mine back almost immediately. I get the impression mine was worse than most peoples' though. It was loud enough that it was clear as day even when listening to music through my studio monitors.
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Online keyboardlover

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A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 07:58:33 »
That's how mine was too. Crazy loud, despite how hard or soft I typed.
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Offline redpill

  • Posts: 774
A sad day in Filco Ninja Land
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 09 June 2011, 08:46:41 »
I'll take some recordings today and post them
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^ Current Favorite ^  Topre Realforce 87UB 55g  |  Topre Realforce 103UB 55g | KBC Poker/Browns/Sanded Keycaps |  Ducky 1087 | Filco MajesFoam-2 | IBM Model M 1390131 Feb '87 | Still Love: Microsoft Trackball Explorer x3 | Now Unused:  Microsoft Natural Ergo 4k x2
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