Author Topic: QGMLWB by carpalx  (Read 7044 times)

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Offline omuerte

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QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 22 December 2011, 18:09:28 »
I downloaded the MS keyboard layout creator earlier today and had a go at setting up a QGMLWB keyboard layout for windows. It should work on xp, vista and win7 both 32 and 64-bit.

I 7-zipped everything and put it up on google docs if anyone wants to play around with QGMLWB in windows: goo.gl/d7yR0

The keyboard layout creator source file (.klc) is included if you're paranoid and would like to build the installers from scratch yourself. The key layout creator is a bit buggy so you may have to flex your google-fu to get it to work perfectly if you want to build a layout from scratch. Other than the bugs the layout creator is trivial to use so you can bang out a layout in a couple of minutes, it's pretty sweet. I'm looking forward to giving QGML a try here.
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Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 22 December 2011, 19:57:38 »
Quote from: omuerte;476249
I 7-zipped everything and put it up on google docs if anyone wants to play around with QGMLWB in windows: goo.gl/d7yR0


Has already been done:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?24370

Offline omuerte

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QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 22 December 2011, 22:40:09 »
My bad, I noticed the same thing shortly after I posted. Oh well.
Filco TKL  //   Rosewill RK-9000 //  Cherry Corp G80-3000HQU // TG3 BL82 (ghetto reds)

ciao bella~
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Offline oneproduct

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QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 22 December 2011, 23:57:41 »
Quote from: dorkvader;474871
martin227, is this the link:
http://mathematicalmulticore.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/mtgaps-keyboard-layout-2-0/

Looks interesting: I agree with the logic of moving the modifiers, and other keys (as a Dvorak user, I must be) I feel like most of these layouts are just missing "something" that they would be great with otherwise.

For example, when I switched from QWERTY, I chose Dvorak over Colemak for a number of reasons. One of them was Colemak keeping the ZXCV placement. While I can't fault the logic of keeping them there, and also agree that there's not too much of a performance reason to move them, It's the principle of the thing that kept me from it.

I really prefer Dvorak's layout of the /=\ keys being all in a row. I'll look into the MTGAP guy's layout. Thanks for the good information!
---
Edit: I'm pretty interested about the below layout:
http://mathematicalmulticore.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/fully-optimized-standard-keyboard/

Code: [Select]
= 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 q z
y p o u - k d l c w x / j
i n e a , m h t s r "
( ) ; . _ v f g b '

Careful! That article is quite old (Jan 16) and if you look in the comments that is no longer the layout the author recommends. This comment posted by him in reply to that article on Nov 2 recommends a different layout: http://mathematicalmulticore.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/fully-optimized-standard-keyboard/#comment-1877

b  l  m  p  v   j  u  o  c  q
 n  s  t  h  d   .  i  e  r  a
 w  x  g  f  k   ;  y  ,  z  '
Filco Tenkeyless | Realforce Tenkeyless Variable Silent | Truly Ergonomic | Kinesis Contoured Advantage | IBM Model M SSK | Cherry G80-3600LYC | TG3 w/ trackpad | CM Storm QuickFire Rapid | Ducky Shine II | Ergodox
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Colemak

Offline Flaubertt

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 08 June 2013, 15:07:24 »
I'm currently testing the QGMLWB layout (I call it QG-B for short, to distinguish it from other members of its family), and my WPM has dropped ~95%, which is a smaller plunge than I was expecting. In time I do think that I'll surpass my QWERTY speed, and even in this early stage I can feel it considerably superior to QWERTY.

Also, I do think QG-B is pretty optimal (if that makes sense). In that regard, I think that Dvorak, Colemak and a couple others are also good solutions. In the end I don't think that there's an absolute and strictly optimal layout, because the solutions to the optimization problem depend on your criteria for 'best layout' (and that's somewhat subjective), not to mention that they're stochastic (random layouts are tested a few thousand times, and the one remaining in the end is considered the 'optimal' solution of that run), because in order to find a truly deterministic solution we'd have to compute ~10^26 layouts for any given set of criteria!

So, QG-B might not be a truly optimal solution, and its criteria may not be THE criteria, but under those criteria it IS better than Dvorak, Coleman and others (not by much), and those are criteria I value, so I went ahead and chose it.

And yes, I did type all of this in QG-B, and it took me like 1 hour! Learning pains....

Offline davkol

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 08 June 2013, 16:34:44 »
Well, the only problem is the corpus. QGMLWB might be optimal for some English corpus, but not e.g. French.
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Offline Flaubertt

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 08 June 2013, 17:31:00 »
Well, the only problem is the corpus. QGMLWB might be optimal for some English corpus, but not e.g. French.
Ahhhhh yes!!! There's that too!!

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 18:13:31 »
I wish I could find everything as interesting as keyboard  metrics.

The short story: On a Kinesis Advantage I use Colemak from qwerty...and I've played with Dvorak too. According to CarpalX there seem to be several "improvements" to Colemak, and/or other alternatives. My first choice would be to try one of the "improved Colemaks", or possibly the layout discussed in this thread.  My hesitation to changing/modifying what I currently use is that I almost doubt I'll notice any difference, and using Colemak is so convenient now that it's selectable part of operating systems. And, the metrics don't tell the whole story.
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Offline Flaubertt

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 22:35:14 »
I wish I could find everything as interesting as keyboard  metrics.

The short story: On a Kinesis Advantage I use Colemak from qwerty...and I've played with Dvorak too. According to CarpalX there seem to be several "improvements" to Colemak, and/or other alternatives. My first choice would be to try one of the "improved Colemaks", or possibly the layout discussed in this thread.  My hesitation to changing/modifying what I currently use is that I almost doubt I'll notice any difference, and using Colemak is so convenient now that it's selectable part of operating systems. And, the metrics don't tell the whole story.
As far as convenience goes, this is a major point for me. There's a compiled Autohotkey file that you just double-click to enable the your layout, and then close it from the taskbar to disable it.
If I didn't have the certainty that I can activate my layout in any computer and de-activate just as easily, I wouldn't use it at all!!

I'd love to hear the long story :(

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 09 June 2013, 22:57:17 »
I wish I could find everything as interesting as keyboard  metrics.

The short story: On a Kinesis Advantage I use Colemak from qwerty...and I've played with Dvorak too. According to CarpalX there seem to be several "improvements" to Colemak, and/or other alternatives. My first choice would be to try one of the "improved Colemaks", or possibly the layout discussed in this thread.  My hesitation to changing/modifying what I currently use is that I almost doubt I'll notice any difference, and using Colemak is so convenient now that it's selectable part of operating systems. And, the metrics don't tell the whole story.
As far as convenience goes, this is a major point for me. There's a compiled Autohotkey file that you just double-click to enable the your layout, and then close it from the taskbar to disable it.
If I didn't have the certainty that I can activate my layout in any computer and de-activate just as easily, I wouldn't use it at all!!

I'd love to hear the long story :(

I use Mac most of the time, and AutoHotKey is a PC program...so I think I'm out of the running on having a quick "drop in" solution for layout modifications (other than remapping on my Kinesis). But again, I'm not too sure there will be much of a difference. I don't mind remapping a few keys, but any more than that is a bit of a pain if I want to switch back and forth to try out different layouts.
Kinesis Advantage | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | all on Mac
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Offline tufty

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 10 June 2013, 00:45:32 »
I use Mac most of the time, and AutoHotKey is a PC program...so I think I'm out of the running on having a quick "drop in" solution for layout modifications (other than remapping on my Kinesis).
Are ya cobblers.  Since 10.2, adding a keyboard layout has been a simple matter of dropping a new .keylayout file into ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts and selecting it in the control panel.  It's a bloody sight easier than under Widnows.

Under the "language and text" preferences, there should be an option to show the input menu in the menu bar; select this and you get a little menu at the top of the screen where you can select between layouts.  There's also a key combination to cycle layouts, I forget what it is.

Wanna edit your layouts?  http://scripts.sil.org/ukelele

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 21:13:38 »
I use Mac most of the time, and AutoHotKey is a PC program...so I think I'm out of the running on having a quick "drop in" solution for layout modifications (other than remapping on my Kinesis).
Are ya cobblers.  Since 10.2, adding a keyboard layout has been a simple matter of dropping a new .keylayout file into ~/Library/Keyboard Layouts and selecting it in the control panel.  It's a bloody sight easier than under Widnows.

Under the "language and text" preferences, there should be an option to show the input menu in the menu bar; select this and you get a little menu at the top of the screen where you can select between layouts.  There's also a key combination to cycle layouts, I forget what it is.

Wanna edit your layouts?  http://scripts.sil.org/ukelele

Thanks for that, I had entirely forgotten about Ukelele, I had never actually used it but I had downloaded it years ago. Off to see what I can do!
« Last Edit: Tue, 11 June 2013, 21:17:13 by Input Nirvana »
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Offline Burz

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 18 June 2013, 00:55:08 »
Mmmm... this stuff about Colemak and Dvorak being within 1-2% of each other:

Not according to Carpalx. I recall them showing Colemak at about 13% less effort than Dvorak.
Matias Mini QuietPro  \\ Dell AT101W - Black ALPS  \\ SIIG MiniTouch x2 White XM - Monterey  \\ Colemak layout.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 18 June 2013, 01:19:42 »
I'm not up to speed with the alleged actual percentage differences, but I think there is a bit of an error in that 1-2% statement. I believe it's more of a difference relating from qwerty, and a big change to Dvorak, with a modest change to Colemak, and from that point the differences are 1-3% or something very similar. You're basically trading positives/negatives with other positives/negatives.

CarpalX is very interesting, fun and a great piece of work, but remember, it's not all inclusive and is certainly not the final word on layouts (even though I'm captivated by the website).

The Colmak forum has some very informative threads on the DRAWBACKS of the 'improved Colemaks', QGMLWB family of layouts and Workman. You gotta search because I don't have the threads handy at this time and it's late at night, so I gotta sleep: http://forum.colemak.com/index.php
Kinesis Advantage | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | all on Mac
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell               Proudly Geekwhacking since 2009
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Offline Burz

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 18 June 2013, 23:56:24 »
I'm not up to speed with the alleged actual percentage differences, but I think there is a bit of an error in that 1-2% statement. I believe it's more of a difference relating from qwerty, and a big change to Dvorak, with a modest change to Colemak, and from that point the differences are 1-3% or something very similar. You're basically trading positives/negatives with other positives/negatives.

CarpalX is very interesting, fun and a great piece of work, but remember, it's not all inclusive and is certainly not the final word on layouts (even though I'm captivated by the website).

The Colmak forum has some very informative threads on the DRAWBACKS of the 'improved Colemaks', QGMLWB family of layouts and Workman. You gotta search because I don't have the threads handy at this time and it's late at night, so I gotta sleep: http://forum.colemak.com/index.php

Another interesting work is the layout analyzer at the andong.co.uk site. It doesn't seem as rigorous as Carpalx, but it is fun to try layout variations there. I once did a tweak of Colemak that was 4% more efficient (if backspace was included in simulation).
Matias Mini QuietPro  \\ Dell AT101W - Black ALPS  \\ SIIG MiniTouch x2 White XM - Monterey  \\ Colemak layout.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 21 June 2013, 00:35:50 »
<gonna post this in another similar thread>

http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=1525

This link was sent to me by DreymaR even though I participated in it, but couldn't remember where it was.

It covers the ideas behind various metrics used in determining layouts and some pros/cons. It touches on some concepts. From what I remember it may beat a dead horse and, but should say a lot of what is going on in these couple threads. I post because I think it's relevant in the idea of changing layouts and why.
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Offline jroes

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 28 January 2014, 10:16:28 »
Hey guys!

If you want to use QGMLWB on OSX, here's a layout I created with Ukelele: https://github.com/jroes/QGMLWB

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: QGMLWB by carpalx
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 28 January 2014, 23:42:40 »
Hey guys!

If you want to use QGMLWB on OSX, here's a layout I created with Ukelele: https://github.com/jroes/QGMLWB

Hey, thanks for that! So helpful for those of us that always "mean" to do something but sometimes have issues getting to it………
Kinesis Advantage | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | all on Mac
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell               Proudly Geekwhacking since 2009
Staying in touch with Tapatalk Pro                               Thanks much, Smallfry