Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 238203 times)

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Offline eviltobz

  • Posts: 90
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2130 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 16:18:21 »
... adding homing keys with a bump and a different color...
ooh, good point. something other than black might be good, those kinesis guys know what they're doing it seems:

Online Jagriff

  • Posts: 163
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2131 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 17:51:13 »
i keep trawling ebay, wasd, etc looking at printed caps, but this does interest me. as a kinesis user i like the whole home set being deep jobbies, so i'd probably be after 8, maybe 16 to have some ready for the 2nd one i build depending on price.
Great! It sounds like we could push a group buy through fairly quickly and still get a pretty good price on the keycaps.

In the interim, Signature Plastics has ~153 "DSA - 1X W/ HOMING BUMP - CREAM (WCX)" in stock for $1 a key + S&H. If you can't wait for deep dish keys and don't want to add superglue nubs, this could be a quick stopgap for adding homing keys with a bump and a different color.

http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capsinventory.php
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/inventorypdfs/DSAInventory.pdf
http://www.keycapsdirect.com/images/colors/pbtWhites.JPG
Thanks for the heads up. The perfect set (for me) would be deep dish in black, so I still plan to go forward with a group buy. But that will be a good plan B.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 200
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2132 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 18:00:38 »
... adding homing keys with a bump and a different color...
ooh, good point. something other than black might be good, those kinesis guys know what they're doing it seems:
Show Image

Would be a matter of getting everybody happy with a given color, and PBT colors aren't quite as vivid as the ABS keys used on the Kinesis. Still, even with plain black, it's easy enough to figure out by key shape alone. The deep dish keys have a slightly higher edge ridge, smaller key face, and deeper concave shape. They're different enough to both feel and see the difference.

Offline bebuxe

  • Posts: 179
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2133 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 18:10:42 »
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?
I will, and on FreeBSD. You need to set them with the correct scan codes:
http://hal.freedesktop.org/quirk/quirk-keymap-list.txt
http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2keyboard/scancodes2.html
http://www.x.org/wiki/XKB

We should append a map for these, and the rest of the char as an optional .header
https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware
a copy: https://github.com/judascleric/ergodox-firmware

@wasabah,SubGothius
We should really make a sub folder on the repository for the layouts, and only the most populars. Of course, we need to finish the ECMAScript KB mapper. I just need the time make a cli option for this, maybe even using xmodmap as the interface.

@Zalusithix
report it to Soarer, to remove your post.
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 April 2013, 18:15:32 by bebuxe »

Online ElectronicFur

  • Posts: 23
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2134 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 18:15:20 »
Ok, I still have reservations about the thumb cluster reach, but I finally joined the group buy ;D

A bit naughty as I just got a 2nd Kinesis off fleabay!

So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?

EF
Kinesis Advantage Pro (silver) | Kinesis Advantage (black) | Microsoft Natural Elite | Ergodox (on order)

Online Jagriff

  • Posts: 163
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2135 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 18:17:52 »
Ok, I still have reservations about the thumb cluster reach, but I finally joined the group buy ;D

A bit naughty as I just got a 2nd Kinesis off fleabay!

So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?

EF
You will probably want to plate mount the switches, but it's okay to get pcb mount switches as long as you don't mind cutting the two plastic pins on the back of each switch.


Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 556
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2137 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 19:42:25 »
Many thanks to all of the contributors to the ErgoDox Project.  I got the firmware loaded last night and was honestly surprised when I hit a key and a letter registered. It's like it came to life before my eyes. I wonder if it was like that for Dr. Frankenstein. I confess, I was giddy. I didn't question the design, only my inexperience working with electronics and my lack of digital savvy. Fortunately, the fine Massdrop instructions and a lot of wise advice from the Geekhack group prevailed.

I'm working on a tray for the ErgoDox Twins and would like to modify an old Expert Mouse to fit between them. The E.M. switches have three wires and the ones I hope to use have two. I assume this has to do with the additional commands it can send by pressing two switches simultaneously.

If I'm not interested in the tandem press option, only the four single press commands, do you think these single pole switches will work?

19075-0
19077-1
A work in progress.

Offline Glod

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  • Location: Richmond, Virginia
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2138 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 19:53:25 »
dude, dude, dude, woah dude

words can't describe how awesome i think that is and how you integrated the trackball (kensington pro?)

the switches should work, sordna's made palm buttons mod for his kenesis that looked similar http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26579.0 (the bottom of the original post)

it looks great how its going. i would be really interested how it turns out, maybe get some vinyl wrap, like fake carbon fiber, that you use a heat gun to apply to finish it off making it look like a single unit. i dunno just talking without really thinking

*thumbs up*

* table flip *

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2139 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 19:57:37 »
Is there a collection of firmwares online?
This would be a fairly nice thing to be able to browse through layouts, pick one that suits you and install it.

Edit: I'm looking for a German layout, anybody implemented one?

My understanding is that creating a firmware that doesn't use the codes supported by the usb standard will not be possible. This is what Ben, the firmware developer stated on MassDrop:

Quote
Unicode characters are not supported in firmware - and can't be, as far as I've been able to see. The people that designed the spec for USB keyboards decided to have them send scan codes (just like keyboards have since the beginning of time, I think) instead of UTF-8 characters. I'm kind of mad at them for that too, lol.
Also, to those wanting international layouts: the USB spec doesn't define those characters explicitly - it defines a more or less US layout + some "international" keys and other things, and expects the rest to be handled in software (for the convenience of hardware manufacturers). So, good news is that your layout is supported by the firmware. Bad news is that I can't tell you how to do it without resorting to Unixish programs and modifying C code ;) - hopefully Jasper's able to get the configurator to detect the keys (though, testing for the detection of keys on keyboards not readily available in the US probably isn't the easiest thing to do - something to bear in mind), or someone else has easier ideas for determining the keycodes and looking up their names in the configurator
« Last Edit: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:01:16 by listboss »

Offline listboss

  • Posts: 22
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2140 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:00:25 »
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?

There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:

https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 556
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2141 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:09:21 »
dude, dude, dude, woah dude

words can't describe how awesome i think that is and how you integrated the trackball (kensington pro?)

the switches should work, sordna's made palm buttons mod for his kenesis that looked similar http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26579.0 (the bottom of the original post)

it looks great how its going. i would be really interested how it turns out, maybe get some vinyl wrap, like fake carbon fiber, that you use a heat gun to apply to finish it off making it look like a single unit. i dunno just talking without really thinking

*thumbs up*



Thanks Glod. I've appreciated your enthusiasm over the EgdoDox these last few months.

Your "fake carbon fiber" comment got me thinking. Why not use carbon fiber?


Offline tp4tissue

  • Posts: 6791
  • Eat Ramen-Save bux-Buy Ergodox-Happiness follows
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2142 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:23:09 »
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..

So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???

Offline Larken

  • Posts: 550
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2143 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:24:02 »
wow, kurplop, that tray looks awesome, even in its current state. can't wait to see what your finished product looks like.
| Ergodox #1 | Ergodox #2 |


Filco Majestouch Brown | Ducky 1087 Brown | Cherry G80-3494 Reds | Unicomp Ultra Classics | Cherry G80-8113 Clears |

Offline Glod

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 1778
  • Location: Richmond, Virginia
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2144 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:45:54 »
Your "fake carbon fiber" comment got me thinking. Why not use carbon fiber?

 :eek: "Smoke 'em if you got 'em", interested to see how this progresses, maybe just go ahead and integrate the pcb into the setup (make your own case)

Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..

So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???

i mean that is kind of true but this just shows the ergodox has some potential for some awesome modding. Different styles for different people

i personally prefer some distance apart :)


* table flip *

Offline tp4tissue

  • Posts: 6791
  • Eat Ramen-Save bux-Buy Ergodox-Happiness follows
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2145 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 20:54:58 »
Your "fake carbon fiber" comment got me thinking. Why not use carbon fiber?

 :eek: "Smoke 'em if you got 'em", interested to see how this progresses, maybe just go ahead and integrate the pcb into the setup (make your own case)

Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..

So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???

i mean that is kind of true but this just shows the ergodox has some potential for some awesome modding. Different styles for different people

i personally prefer some distance apart :)

Show Image



like a bausse!

Offline kurplop

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  • Posts: 556
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2146 on: Wed, 17 April 2013, 21:11:05 »
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..

So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???

It's funny you should say that. I thought the same thing when I saw what I had created.
I suppose that most of us didn't really know if we would like the ErgoDox. It's been an experiment for us all.

There are a few reasons I never seriously considered the Kinesis. Keep in mind I never tried one so I could be wrong. Also, just because it may not be right for me doesn't mean that I don't think it's a great design. My biggest reason is that I think the key wells would be too confining for my hands. Some days I have to type differently because of hand problems and I think the design would force text book hand positioning. I also think the tenting and skewed position will be more comfortable for my needs on the ErgoDox. Plus it was a great learning opportunity and a lot of fun building it.


Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 188
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2147 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 00:09:19 »
@kurplop best mod ever.

Now I am a bit curious on how far do u guys keep the ErgoDox apart? I actually keep it quite close together. Doesn't feel that comfortable if it put it far apart.

Offline bisl

  • Posts: 253
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2148 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 00:23:05 »
@kurplop best mod ever.

Now I am a bit curious on how far do u guys keep the ErgoDox apart? I actually keep it quite close together. Doesn't feel that comfortable if it put it far apart.

I think in theory the only thing that matters is that they align with your forearms (so your wrists are straight). If you keep them close together, I imagine you'll want to tilt them inwards to match your arm alignment; personally, I have mine lined up with the armrests on my desk chair.

Which, by the way, is AWESOME because it frees up a damn acre of desk space in place it matters most: right in front of me.

Offline spm

  • Posts: 27
  • Location: CZ
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2149 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 01:24:05 »
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?

There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:

https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23

Oh, yes, I see... maybe I try at weekend get my ergodox home and apply this patch to my firmware and see what it sends :)

Online Jagriff

  • Posts: 163
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2150 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 01:33:46 »
so im guessing deep disk means what it sounds like? different from the normal DSA right?

 is the goal to put these keys where the asdfghjkl; keys are? or just the F and J?, would we want them to be a different color other than black? (for looks)

id get some at that price but i haven't got to the point where i don't need legends yet. not leet enough
You can see a picture of the contrast between DSA deep dish keys and normal DSA keys near the bottom of this page.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40175.870

Offline islisis

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2151 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 03:27:51 »
i personally prefer some distance apart :

the colour coordination in this pic is badass :D

and does it matter if users mod the ergodox into a case? i would think the point is: modular for custom fit

not everyone wants to take apart their kinesis

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
  • Posts: 556
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2152 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 08:07:58 »
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..

So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???

How far apart is the kinesis split?  Measuring from the center of the G to the center of H, a standard keyboard is about 1", my Truly Ergonomic keyboard is 2", my current ErgoDox position is 9". With the tenting and a 30+ splay, that feels about right for me.

How far apart have other users spread their ErgoDoxes?

My bigger concern is whether I'll like the center trackball placement. I chose it because, with the keyboard tenting, it becomes difficult to tent the trackball the way I find comfortable.
19097-0
I'm hoping that the ambidextrous trackball position will make up for the loss.

Offline seferphier

  • Posts: 188
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2153 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 08:41:06 »
Ah... I thought the whole point of the ergo dox was to be able to separate them farther apart..

So, now you put them "BACK" together like the kinesis? why not just get a kinesis then ???

ergodox gives you the freedom to set the distance. that is different from just buying the kinesis.

i might want to put them further apart if it wasn't for the mouse. i want the mouse to be aligned to my forearm.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 April 2013, 08:42:37 by seferphier »

Offline SubGothius

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  • Location: Tucson, AZ USA
    • HTDoctor.com
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2154 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 17:44:04 »
... So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?
You will probably want to plate mount the switches, but it's okay to get pcb mount switches as long as you don't mind cutting the two plastic pins on the back of each switch.
Actually, there's no need to cut off the extra PCB-mount pins, as the ErgoDox PCB already has holes drilled for them; it can take either kind of switch as-is. If you're going without a mounting plate (i.e., not buying the standard acrylic case supplied with the kit) you would probably want to get switches with the extra PCB-mount pins. I suspect it's also possible and desirable to melt down those side pins (not the big center post) after installation to act as rivet heads against the PCB, further securing the switch to the PCB and taking some strain away from the solder points.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Online Jagriff

  • Posts: 163
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2155 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 17:49:57 »
Here's the link to the IC thread about the deep dish keycaps: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42547.0

... So now where can I get MX browns from? And is plate or pcb better?
You will probably want to plate mount the switches, but it's okay to get pcb mount switches as long as you don't mind cutting the two plastic pins on the back of each switch.
Actually, there's no need to cut off the extra PCB-mount pins, as the ErgoDox PCB already has holes drilled for them; it can take either kind of switch as-is. If you're going without a mounting plate (i.e., not buying the standard acrylic case supplied with the kit) you would probably want to get switches with the extra PCB-mount pins. I suspect it's also possible and desirable to melt down those side pins (not the big center post) after installation to act as rivet heads against the PCB, further securing the switch to the PCB and taking some strain away from the solder points.
Oops, my bad. Thanks for the clarification.
« Last Edit: Thu, 18 April 2013, 18:12:47 by Jagriff »

Offline judascleric

  • Posts: 3
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2156 on: Thu, 18 April 2013, 19:04:10 »
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?

There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:

https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23

I wrote the patch. Have to clean it up and document when I get a chance before it gets merged. It supports Play/Pause, Next Track, Prev Track. I only tested in OS X, but it came from Microsoft documentation (actually it came from Hasu's tmk firmware) so it should work on Windows and I would be shocked if it didn't work in Linux. It's a separate scan code report from normal keys. I could hook up Volume Up and Volume Down media keys if the normal codes aren't working for Linux folk. I didn't bother because the normal key Volume Up and Volume down worked in OS X for me.

Offline Zalusithix

  • Posts: 200
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2157 on: Fri, 19 April 2013, 00:10:51 »
Ok, just finished installing stabilizers... A few interesting things to note:

The case is cut/designed wrong for the stabilizer closest to the main key cluster. For the key to align correctly the guides must be put in backwards. This creates it's own set of problems however in that the bars aren't meant to be used on that side of the switch and won't go down all the way as the switch housing interrupts the movement. By reshaping the bar, I got around that particular setback, but created a new one in turn. The newly bent bar ended up interfering with the key cap itself. I had to then shave down the key where the stabilizer was scuffing to fix that.

On the bright side, the key that was giving me a bit more resistance than I would have liked is now better. I doubt if I'll go through the hassle of doing that for the other boards though...

Offline spm

  • Posts: 27
  • Location: CZ
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2158 on: Fri, 19 April 2013, 02:26:24 »
by the way, anybody using ergodox on linux? media keys with firmware from massdrop configurator aren't sending any keycodes. Is there any way to change firmware to send standard media key codes?

There is a pull request on github to add the support for the media keys. It seems it is specifically designed for Windows but it might also work on Linux too:

https://github.com/benblazak/ergodox-firmware/pull/23

I wrote the patch. Have to clean it up and document when I get a chance before it gets merged. It supports Play/Pause, Next Track, Prev Track. I only tested in OS X, but it came from Microsoft documentation (actually it came from Hasu's tmk firmware) so it should work on Windows and I would be shocked if it didn't work in Linux. It's a separate scan code report from normal keys. I could hook up Volume Up and Volume Down media keys if the normal codes aren't working for Linux folk. I didn't bother because the normal key Volume Up and Volume down worked in OS X for me.

Strange - volume up/down and mute keys aren't working for me... only tested with firmware from massdrop web configurator. Actually these 3 are only media keys which I really need :)

Online CommunistWitchDr

  • Posts: 576
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  • >implying keyboards
Re: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #2159 on: Fri, 19 April 2013, 02:30:17 »
Ok, just finished installing stabilizers... A few interesting things to note:

The case is cut/designed wrong for the stabilizer closest to the main key cluster. For the key to align correctly the guides must be put in backwards. This creates it's own set of problems however in that the bars aren't meant to be used on that side of the switch and won't go down all the way as the switch housing interrupts the movement. By reshaping the bar, I got around that particular setback, but created a new one in turn. The newly bent bar ended up interfering with the key cap itself. I had to then shave down the key where the stabilizer was scuffing to fix that.

On the bright side, the key that was giving me a bit more resistance than I would have liked is now better. I doubt if I'll go through the hassle of doing that for the other boards though...

Costar or cherry plate?