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Author Topic: ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.  (Read 93328 times)

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Offline Parak

  • Posts: 482
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #480 on: Thu, 15 March 2012, 10:49:23 »
Quote from: geekabit;546635
I was wondering, why connect both halves together and only one hand to USB. Wouldn't it be more flexible to give both halves their own processor and USB cable? That way you could even decide to use only one half for single-handed typing.

This was discussed earlier in the thread, and is rather complicated to implement. For one, the two halves still need to connect to each other in some way because certain key functionality doesn't pass from one usb keyboard to another. In addition, there needs to be specific firmware logic that is then able to treat the two separate controllers and matrices as one in some way, considering the key map assignments in dual and standalone modes and such.

Quote from: geekabit;546635
You could even incorporate a USB hub in the back, so you can daisy-chain the keyboard and plug in your mouse as well.

Most likely there's no room for one, and if anything I'd think that it'd be a diy thing for individual people if they want to do that sort of thing. Maybe someday we'll have a free and open source controller/firmware implementation with all these things built in, but one can only dream [of enough free time to focus on something like that].
« Last Edit: Thu, 15 March 2012, 10:52:23 by Parak »
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Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2707
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #481 on: Thu, 15 March 2012, 13:00:33 »
Quote from: PrinsValium;546688
I don't really think the switch modules were designed with keycap pulling in mind.. The pegs (I guess this is a less confusing word than pin in this case) could possibly contribute to mechanical stability under normal usage as well though. But I still think the main design goal is to make sure the switches are mounted straight. Using the specified diameter for the lead holes, there is quite enough rotational play to allow for messed up functionality.

Anyway, the pcb should have the holes, and folks are free to use whatever switches they like. For plate mounted switches without a plate, I would recommend hotgluing them on the PCB before soldering. Personally I love switches with pegs AND diodes, they are solid strong!
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Necroleachate

  • Posts: 73
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #482 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 12:00:25 »
I dream about a keyboard like this.
Only con is price.
If it gets below $ 200 I would consider buying it.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Offline jblack801

  • Posts: 80
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #483 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 13:25:55 »
Quote from: Necroleachate;552569
I dream about a keyboard like this.
Only con is price.
If it gets below $ 200 I would consider buying it.

I'm right there with you...

Considering if price reaches sub $200 range.
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Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 1833
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #484 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 13:54:16 »
Quote from: Parak;546704
This was discussed earlier in the thread, and is rather complicated to implement. For one, the two halves still need to connect to each other in some way because certain key functionality doesn't pass from one usb keyboard to another. In addition, there needs to be specific firmware logic that is then able to treat the two separate controllers and matrices as one in some way, considering the key map assignments in dual and standalone modes and such.

That depends on how the user wants to configure his keyboard. Not everyone needs a hardware layer.

I think that the firmware should be one firmware downloaded individually to each keyboard via USB. On boot, each keyboard should auto-detect whether it is left or right (by a pin on the PCB), where it get its power from USB (Master or Stand-alone) or link-cable (Slave) and act accordingly. Each keyboard should store its own keymap. A special key combo to enter a Remap (like Kinesis Remap key) could be executed on either keyboard. When in Slave mode, the keyboard should handle keymap remapping commands from the Master through the link cable.
That would mean that if you want to remap the keyboards or use a hardware layer, then you need the link cable. If you remap the keyboards and then reconnect both through USB then they should remember the keymaps.
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My daily drivers: Dolch G80-1813HFX (Cherry MX Blue dampened with dental bands), Cherry G80-3000LQCDE-2(Cherry MX Clear)

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 97
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #485 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 15:06:34 »
If you're willing to consider them truly separate keyboards when connecting them separately, it might be practical.  But DOX specifically said he'd use at most 1 Teensy and 1 I/O expander.

On the plus side, if DOX changes his mind, treating the 2nd Teensy as an I/O expander until proper dual Teensy firmware could be written should be fairly trivial.  Or if he doesn't, I suppose one could always buy another Teensy, put it inside an Altoids can with a few connectors (which I think looks really cool, lol), and use that as the right hand side to save desk space when they only want to use the left.
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Online Dox

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #486 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 17:46:34 »
Quote from: ic07;552763
If you're willing to consider them truly separate keyboards when connecting them separately, it might be practical.  But DOX specifically said he'd use at most 1 Teensy and 1 I/O expander.
This.

I got some HDMI connectors today to do some prototyping. Those pins tiny! 0.5mm pitch. Anyone know the best way to solder those with a standard soldering iron?
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 45211[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 45212[/ATTACH]
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ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline OPTiK

  • Posts: 22
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #487 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 20:15:37 »
Quote from: Dox;552911
This.

I got some HDMI connectors today to do some prototyping. Those pins tiny! 0.5mm pitch. Anyone know the best way to solder those with a standard soldering iron?
(Attachment Link) 45211[/ATTACH] (Attachment Link) 45212[/ATTACH]

A really fine tip with fine guage wire lol. I could do that with my 12 watt soldering iron, doubt you can do it with a radio shack iron.
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Online Dox

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #488 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 20:34:35 »
I have done the right hand PCB layout. I'll add the option for PCB mounted switch as well as diodes inside the switch.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 45248[/ATTACH]
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ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #489 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 20:49:19 »
Quote from: OPTiK;553025
A really fine tip with fine guage wire lol. I could do that with my 12 watt soldering iron, doubt you can do it with a radio shack iron.
Alternatively, you can just flood over all the pins with a bunch of solder bridges, then suck off the excess with (normally) some copper braid.

Those are surface mount, right? Will there be PCB support for if I want to -say- get some through-hole ones?
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| Unicomp (BS) | WASD V1 (Brown) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Red) | Olivetti (RD) | WYSE 50 (Black) | WYSE 30 (Black) | Two * Access-IS 6x12 (Black) | Cherry G84-4101 SPAUS (ML) | WYSE PCE 840358 (Black) | IBM 6110668 31 JAN '84 | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | NIB Cherry G80-8113 (Browns) | IBM Model F XT | 2* TG3 BL82 (Black) | Siig Minitouch (Monterey) | Cherry G80-8113 (browns) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | | CMstorm QF Rapid (Green)

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 1702
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #490 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 20:58:03 »
I'm getting excited
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Online Dox

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  • Posts: 398
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #491 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 21:10:47 »
Quote from: dorkvader;553054
Alternatively, you can just flood over all the pins with a bunch of solder bridges, then suck off the excess with (normally) some copper braid.

Those are surface mount, right? Will there be PCB support for if I want to -say- get some through-hole ones?

Yes those are surface mount. I would need the datasheet of the connector to check if the holes would interfere.
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ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2707
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #492 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 21:50:28 »
Quote from: Dox;553042
I have done the right hand PCB layout. I'll add the option for PCB mounted switch as well as diodes inside the switch.
(Attachment Link) 45248[/ATTACH]


How about you make the PCB accommodate cherry switches that include the diodes? (and for folks not using switches with diodes, they can still surface-solder diodes at the same soldering points. Shouldn't be hard to make the PCB take DW switches (with pins, with diodes).
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Online Dox

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  • Posts: 398
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #493 on: Wed, 21 March 2012, 21:56:47 »
Quote from: sordna;553089
Quote from: Dox;553042
I have done the right hand PCB layout. I'll add the option for PCB mounted switch as well as diodes inside the switch.
(Attachment Link) 45248[/ATTACH]
How about you make the PCB accommodate cherry switches that include the diodes? (and for folks not using switches with diodes, they can still surface-solder diodes at the same soldering points. Shouldn't be hard to make the PCB take DW switches (with pins, with diodes).
....
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ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 97
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #494 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 01:26:16 »
Quote from: Dox;552911
I got some HDMI connectors today to do some prototyping. [...]


This doesn't mean I'm too late with the i2C firmware, does it?  Couldn't say I'm close yet, but I'm making progress...
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Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2707
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #495 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 01:28:17 »
I plan to get red switches from Kinesis btw, they only sell pcb-mounted switches with pins and diodes, here's a couple I got a while back (photo is from my wiki.

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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline REVENGE

  • Posts: 1140
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #496 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 02:41:50 »
Dead set on using an HDMI connector? That's way beyond my soldering skill level! D:
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Online Dox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 398
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #497 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 09:11:13 »
ic07, you're not too late, I'm using HDMI until you get something working, but I want this to progress.

sordna, switches with pins and diodes will be supported.
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ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Online bpiphany

  • Posts: 879
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
  • former PrinsValium
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #498 on: Thu, 22 March 2012, 19:05:03 »
Quote from: dorkvader;553054
Alternatively, you can just flood over all the pins with a bunch of solder bridges, then suck off the excess with (normally) some copper braid.

Those are surface mount, right? Will there be PCB support for if I want to -say- get some through-hole ones?


After a few tries you get the amount of solder correct. After that it is a smooth experience =)
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Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #499 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 00:30:51 »
Yeah, but I'm still a little worried about all the relatively fine pitch chips I need to solder for a project I'm getting into.
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| Unicomp (BS) | WASD V1 (Brown) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Red) | Olivetti (RD) | WYSE 50 (Black) | WYSE 30 (Black) | Two * Access-IS 6x12 (Black) | Cherry G84-4101 SPAUS (ML) | WYSE PCE 840358 (Black) | IBM 6110668 31 JAN '84 | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | NIB Cherry G80-8113 (Browns) | IBM Model F XT | 2* TG3 BL82 (Black) | Siig Minitouch (Monterey) | Cherry G80-8113 (browns) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | | CMstorm QF Rapid (Green)

Offline laffindude

  • Posts: 1443
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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #500 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 01:36:40 »
Hi. I am still in this even if I don't really check the thread. I see we're still stuck on the case. I am gonna fire off an email to a friend to see if he can help with the aluminum case.
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Online tradet

  • Posts: 62
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #501 on: Sat, 24 March 2012, 18:26:11 »
Sounds tempting. Interested depending on the price. $200 maybe?
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Offline jblack801

  • Posts: 80
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #502 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 00:37:51 »
Quote from: PrinsValium;554008
After a few tries you get the amount of solder correct. After that it is a smooth experience =)


I may be a bit of a soldering amateur, but damn that was awesome.
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Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2707
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #503 on: Tue, 27 March 2012, 00:47:00 »
This video is very impressive, such CLEAN soldering !!!

[video=youtube;5uiroWBkdFY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uiroWBkdFY[/video]
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline ic07

  • Posts: 97
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #504 on: Mon, 02 April 2012, 22:09:13 »
Got I2C working the other day!  And spring break's coming up, so I'm hoping (God willing) to have at the very least some beta quality firmware done by the end of next week.  I'll post my documentation and code when I get it working.  Sorry it's taken so long, but thanks for being patient :) .
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Offline dorkvader

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #505 on: Wed, 04 April 2012, 01:44:27 »
This is very good news, ic07! I am impressed with both your dedication and your results. We are patient here: Time is what is necessary for proper design.
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| Unicomp (BS) | WASD V1 (Brown) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Red) | Olivetti (RD) | WYSE 50 (Black) | WYSE 30 (Black) | Two * Access-IS 6x12 (Black) | Cherry G84-4101 SPAUS (ML) | WYSE PCE 840358 (Black) | IBM 6110668 31 JAN '84 | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | NIB Cherry G80-8113 (Browns) | IBM Model F XT | 2* TG3 BL82 (Black) | Siig Minitouch (Monterey) | Cherry G80-8113 (browns) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | | CMstorm QF Rapid (Green)

Online bpiphany

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #506 on: Fri, 06 April 2012, 06:02:33 »
G'damn these things are small. I ordered a bunch of 0402 components for using when reconstructing the Teensy directly on the main board. Time to do some practice I think, buying a finer tipped soldering iron, and finding someone willing to borrow me a stereo loupe perhaps...

[video=youtube;66GV4OuShzI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66GV4OuShzI[/video]
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Online alaricljs

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[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #507 on: Fri, 06 April 2012, 07:59:30 »
Tin both pads, hold the 0402 down to the board with tweezers hit 1 pad with the soldering iron briefly.  Check to see if the other pad got sufficiently heated to be properly soldered.  Sometimes it happens.  Then finish it out.
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Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
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Offline dirge

  • Posts: 759
  • Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #508 on: Fri, 06 April 2012, 09:32:28 »
keep it up guys, in for at least one regardless of price.
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Thinking about things isn't the same as doing things. Otherwise everybody would be in jail.

Offline QuinRiva

  • Posts: 6
[Interest Check] Custom split ergo keyboard.
« Reply #509 on: Fri, 06 April 2012, 10:37:33 »
I've been interested in making something along these lines for a while, and I've done a quick mock up based on Dox's design.  Mine will largely be sheetmetal based as that is the tools I have access to, so I'm looking at having the keys plate mounted and having the left and right keyboard mounted on a chair.  As far as curvature goes that isn't really much of a problem for me as I can do that pretty easily, but I've been having trouble trying to determine the best direction for curvature and the dimensions.

Also what have you used to draw the model and where have you sourced the switch models?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 47545[/ATTACH]
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