Author Topic: QGMLWY keyboard layout  (Read 7570 times)

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Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 05:20:16 »
“When a modified QWERTY layout is fully optimized (where the P and ; keys are swapped)
with ZXCV held in place, the resulting layout is QGMLWY and effort is reduced by 44%.„

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32547[/ATTACH]
(For more information, go to
http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?full_optimization)

• Here are the install files:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49319255/carpalx/qgmlwy.zip

• Typing lessons:
 - install RapidTyping (http://www.rapidtyping.com/downloads.html)
Before running RapidTyping for the first time, go to directory "\RapidTyping\Resources\Lessons\" and replace file "Default.xml"
with this one http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49319255/RapidTyping/Default.zip
This file configures any layout for the English Language, showing all the lessons in levels Intermediate and expert in English.
(Note: if you skip this, and don't overwrite file "Default.xml" before running RapidTyping for the first time,
you will get only lessons for the Beginner level, on this keyboard layout)

• To try it without installing anything, use this Autohotkey file:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49319255/AutoHotKey/QGMLWY.exe
(Note: “Pause” key alternates between keyboard layouts)
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 November 2011, 07:47:02 by xorxpto »

Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 06:58:36 »
For a layout to be successful, typing lessons, from home rows to all keys exercise, should be available and integrated into TypeFaster (Windows) or ktouch, for example.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

fossala

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 07:05:07 »
One thing I love about dvorak that that layout doesn't have is ' , .  not on the bottem row as they are used so often.

Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 07:21:30 »
Quote from: Tony;456650
For a layout to be successful, typing lessons, from home rows to all keys exercise, should be available and integrated into TypeFaster (Windows) or ktouch, for example.


On Windows, if you install the QGMLWY keyboard, you can use "RapidTyping" (http://www.rapidtyping.com) for the typing lessons. "RapidTyping" is freeware and reconizes automatically the keyboard layout installed on Windows.

Offline dorkvader

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 08:51:00 »
Quote from: fossala;456653
One thing I love about dvorak that that layout doesn't have is ' , .  not on the bottem row as they are used so often.
I don't know why everyone keeps those in place for an otherwise excellent layout. Also, I see no reason why ZXCV should stay. There's too much work going into good layouts that are ultimately hurt by these flaws.

xorxpto, Thanks for sharing. I am sure it will be useful for the people who use the layout, and it's always nice to have another resource around here to help people make the switch from QWERTY easier.
let me put together your keyboard! Special offer, $10 to assemble an "inifity" keyboard.
"One should watch a film adaptation of a favorite book only after considering, very carefully, the fact that the casting of the film may very well become the permanent casting of the book in one's mind. This is a very real hazard."

Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:03:55 »
Great, so this layout pakage is ready for anyone who wants to try it.

Let's make a name for it. I suggest Carpak.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

fossala

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:06:39 »

Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:23:25 »
Quote from: fossala;456689
I'm getting de javu...
EDIT: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22183-QGMLWB-by-carpalx


That thread is about the QGMLWB keyboard layout.
This one is about the QGMLWY keyboard layout.
They both result from a study done by Mr. Martin Krzywinski, a Scientist in Bioinformatics.

Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:30:00 »
Make a different name for each of them, otherwise you may be misspell it for QWFPGJ (Colemak) too.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline oneproduct

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:37:46 »
Quote from: fossala;456653
One thing I love about dvorak that that layout doesn't have is ' , .  not on the bottem row as they are used so often.

Actually if you look at the frequency of letters and punctuation, there are enough letters to occupy all of the home row and top row (assuming 10 letters on each of those rows) before they become less frequent that punctuation unless you want to put the comma on the top row but not the period because the least common of the letters you put on the top row is arguably close to the comma but far more frequent than the period.

A better place to put the punctuation is the two locations on the bottom row on the same side as the vowels (so left for dvorak, this is because you are more likely to end a word on a consonant so punctuation should be on the side with vowels to favor alternation) that are attributed to your index finger as the index finger has the easiest time of reaching the bottom row (try it and you'll see). So on dvorak, the punctuation should really be comma where V is on Qwerty and period where B is on Qwerty.

This works out better if the vowels were on the right side, as B is kind of far for the left hand whereas using N and M for comma and period respectively is a bit easier. I'm working on a layout that does this.

Quote from: dorkvader;456681
I don't know why everyone keeps those in place for an otherwise excellent layout. Also, I see no reason why ZXCV should stay. There's too much work going into good layouts that are ultimately hurt by these flaws.

C and V should likely be free to move because they are somewhat common, but when it comes to Z and X, they will definitely find themselves on the bottom row anyways. Since they are so infrequent at around 0.7% and 1.5% usage respectively, you don't stand to gain much. They also happen to be on some of the worse places already anyways, as the pinky and ring finger are the two worst fingers. If you were to place the two least common letters on the bottom row pinkies, they would be Z and Q. If you were to place the next least two common letters on the bottom row ring fingers they would be J and X. This puts them right back where they are already (though maybe you might want them on the right hand side or you might put some sort of symbol in those spots instead)! So because it would make very little difference even if you did move them around, it doesn't hurt to just keep them in convenient (close to Ctrl) and familiar places.

If you place letters on rows strictly in terms of frequency, the letter V ends up on the bottom as well and is the most common of the bottom row letters, so having it where it is on the left index finger is actually pretty good. This is assuming vowels are on the right, which they are in this layout and in Colemak for the most part. Dvorak is the only layout that has all the vowels on the left and if you dig into the statistics you can see that this isn't as good as it could be. You might be able to make V slightly better somewhere else on the bottom row but it wouldn't be all that much and then you sacrifice some convenience in it's usage as paste (if you are a programmer, you might use V for paste more than you do for actually typing!). I could go either way on this, there are good arguments to move it and to keep it.

The letter C though has no business being on the bottom row where it is. Luckily though with ZXV where they are you can still sort of emulate a copy by doing cut then pasting it back right where you cut it. Then you have a copy on the clipboard and you have the text you wanted to copy in it's original place still! This only works for text you can edit though, as you can't cut non-editable text.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:59:32 by oneproduct »
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fossala

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 09:48:32 »
Quote from: oneproduct;456712
Actually if you look at the frequency of letters and punctuation, there are enough letters to occupy all of the home row and top row (assuming 10 letters on each of those rows) before they become less frequent that punctuation unless you want to put the comma on the top row but not the period because the least common of the letters you put on the top row is arguably close to the comma but far more frequent than the period.

A better place to put the punctuation is the two locations on the bottom row on the same side as the vowels (so left for dvorak, this is because you are more likely to end a word on a consonant so punctuation should be on the side with vowels to favor alternation) that are attributed to your index finger as the index finger has the easiest time of reaching the bottom row (try it and you'll see). So on dvorak, the punctuation should really be comma where V is on Qwerty and period where B is on Qwerty.

This works out better if the vowels were on the right side, as B is kind of far for the left hand whereas using N and M for comma and period respectively is a bit easier. I'm working on a layout that does this.
That does make sense. But I never see alternate layouts that change where the punctuation is.

Offline oneproduct

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 10:09:38 »
I just took a peek at some other layouts and in the Arensito layout, the comma is actually on the top row and the period is on the bottom row like I suggested. My main argument (besides having punctuation not adjacent to each other potentially being confusing and <> not being next to each other for programmers) against having the comma on the top row is that you /know/ that it will be followed by a space, so you will get a break while you press the spacebar, so it's an excellent key to have on the bottom because of this. This same argument can be added to the frequency argument as to why it should not be on the top row in Dvorak.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 32556[/ATTACH]

However Arensito totally fails here because the letter E is the most common letter to end a word (about 19% of words end with an E when writing), so having that same finger responsible for comma and period causes a lot of same finger in a row usage.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 November 2011, 10:13:32 by oneproduct »
Filco Tenkeyless | Realforce Tenkeyless Variable Silent | Truly Ergonomic | Kinesis Contoured Advantage | IBM Model M SSK | Cherry G80-3600LYC | TG3 w/ trackpad | CM Storm QuickFire Rapid | Ergodox
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Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 21 November 2011, 19:57:42 »
Quote from: xorxpto;456656
On Windows, if you install the QGMLWY keyboard, you can use "RapidTyping" (http://www.rapidtyping.com) for the typing lessons. "RapidTyping" is freeware and reconizes automatically the keyboard layout installed on Windows.

What I mean is meaningful English words composed by human for a specific keyboard layout, not randomized meaningless asdfjkl; or dstnriaeoh.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 22 November 2011, 05:05:51 »
Quote from: Tony;457081
What I mean is meaningful English words composed by human for a specific keyboard layout, not randomized meaningless asdfjkl; or dstnriaeoh.


That's a configuration issue.

Go to "\RapidTyping\Resources\Lessons\" and replace the auto-generated file "Default.xml" with this one:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49319255/RapidTyping/Default.zip

After this, it should show all the lessons for Beginner, Intermediate and expert.
Hope this help.

PS:
"RapidTyping" also allows you to create your own lessons.
See online help

Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 23 November 2011, 03:13:11 »
Quote from: dorkvader;456681
I don't know why everyone keeps those in place for an otherwise excellent layout. Also, I see no reason why ZXCV should stay. There's too much work going into good layouts that are ultimately hurt by these flaws.

xorxpto, Thanks for sharing. I am sure it will be useful for the people who use the layout, and it's always nice to have another resource around here to help people make the switch from QWERTY easier.

I can post the same resources (install files/autohotkey exe) for other Q*MLW* carplax Layouts (QFMLWY and QGMLWB) that don't keep ZXCV in place.
Let me know if someone is interested.

Offline dorkvader

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 23 November 2011, 20:16:22 »
Quote from: xorxpto;458131
I can post the same resources (install files/autohotkey exe) for other Q*MLW* carplax Layouts (QFMLWY and QGMLWB) that don't keep ZXCV in place.
Let me know if someone is interested.

QGMLWB is much better, in my opinion, though there's no need to post it on my account. I understand there's no benefit of switching from dvorak.

Though I an given to understand that it's pretty excellent.
let me put together your keyboard! Special offer, $10 to assemble an "inifity" keyboard.
"One should watch a film adaptation of a favorite book only after considering, very carefully, the fact that the casting of the film may very well become the permanent casting of the book in one's mind. This is a very real hazard."

Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 28 November 2011, 02:55:23 »
Quote from: xorxpto;458131
I can post the same resources (install files/autohotkey exe) for other Q*MLW* carplax Layouts (QFMLWY and QGMLWB) that don't keep ZXCV in place.
Let me know if someone is interested.


Please do so, and put it in the appropriate thread so many guests who visit that thread can try it without any hassle.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 28 November 2011, 05:29:49 »
Quote from: Tony;459918
Please do so, and put it in the appropriate thread so many guests who visit that thread can try it without any hassle.


OK, just created similar thread for the QGMLWB keyboard layout
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 November 2011, 06:18:05 by xorxpto »

Offline Bvofrak

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 02:19:49 »
Actually for me Carpalx is the worst layout alternative.
high distance, index "over" used, same finger use as critical as qwerty ("CR" "CL" "NG" "GL" "NC" "E," "PA" "AY" "PY" "KY"...)

Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 02:35:55 »
I think these Carpalx layouts increase variety to the layout perspective. Previously we don't have to stick to Qwerty, now we can try so many other layouts with full switching package readily available.

The discussion about which is the better layout will be long and never come to any conclusion. Depends on different finger lengths and finger strengths , ideally each people should invent his or her own layout that fits him or her only.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Input Nirvana

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 02:50:57 »
Quote from: Tony;461821
I think these Carpalx layouts increase variety to the layout perspective. Previously we don't have to stick to Qwerty, now we can try so many other layouts with full switching package readily available.

The discussion about which is the better layout will be long and never come to any conclusion. Depends on different finger lengths and finger strengths , ideally each people should invent his or her own layout that fits him or her only.

Good thread.

It would seem to make sense at some point, starting at an early age, that the discussion and education of layouts would be open to everyone, and then they would be able to choose from several 'mainstream' layouts with the idea they can change it themselves. Software allows this.

I use Colemak and I'm happy. I would consider changing a couple letters if there is some perceived gain. Optimized Colemak or something other? Then again, at some point, admittedly, you can wind up chasing your tail until you smack into your own ass.
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Offline dorkvader

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 13:24:09 »
Yeah, I think things would be much better if they offered a choice between QWERTY, DVORAK, COLEMAK, etc when they teach typing in grade school.

sort of like the browserchoice.eu website

http://www.browserchoice.eu/BrowserChoice/browserchoice_en.htm
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2011, 13:27:01 by dorkvader »
let me put together your keyboard! Special offer, $10 to assemble an "inifity" keyboard.
"One should watch a film adaptation of a favorite book only after considering, very carefully, the fact that the casting of the film may very well become the permanent casting of the book in one's mind. This is a very real hazard."

Offline Input Nirvana

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« Reply #22 on: Sun, 04 December 2011, 02:20:24 »
I just spent some time on the 4-5 keyboard layout sites...they've all improved and advanced since I've last taken a serious look at them 2 years ago. Even more information. As a happy Colemak user, I would still consider making a change for a substantial perceived improvement. But support for the layout is an issue as well...not just where you want to have your letters :)
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Offline Playtrumpet

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 04 December 2011, 11:26:38 »
I'd love a layout that got rid of all same-finger strokes (not double letters) but kept a good alteration/rolling ratio. Also, I find the fastest typing for me comes with rolls of 2 to 3 letters inward distributed over both hands. For example, "their" and "should" in Dvorak are typed with incredible ease and speed because they're made of rolls starting on the right hand going to the left and back.
Das S Ultimate Brown | Dvorak

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #24 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 12:44:31 »
Quote from: Playtrumpet;463927
I'd love a layout that got rid of all same-finger strokes (not double letters) but kept a good alteration/rolling ratio. Also, I find the fastest typing for me comes with rolls of 2 to 3 letters inward distributed over both hands. For example, "their" and "should" in Dvorak are typed with incredible ease and speed because they're made of rolls starting on the right hand going to the left and back.

I agree, alternation and rolls make typing pretty fun. I'm considering trying the fully optimised layout to see if I prefer it. Given how easy it is, I may switch my unicomp into it.
let me put together your keyboard! Special offer, $10 to assemble an "inifity" keyboard.
"One should watch a film adaptation of a favorite book only after considering, very carefully, the fact that the casting of the film may very well become the permanent casting of the book in one's mind. This is a very real hazard."

Offline xorxpto

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 05:13:19 »
Quote from: Bvofrak;461818
Actually for me Carpalx is the worst layout alternative.
high distance, index "over" used, same finger use as critical as qwerty ("CR" "CL" "NG" "GL" "NC" "E," "PA" "AY" "PY" "KY"...)


The most common letter pairs are "TH HE AN RE ER IN ON AT ND ST ES EN OF TE ED OR TI HI AS TO".
Not even one of the pairs you mentioned is included on this group.
If that's all you got to conclude that carpalx layouts are the worst, that’s a very weak argument...
These layouts resulted from scientific studies and math simulations, not mere opinions.

Online pyro

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 08 December 2011, 19:44:06 »
If you translate the letters of a text to QGMLWB you'll find that typing it feels pretty good (once you get over the fact that you're typing nonsense).

Look here
Quote
Not even one of the pairs you mentioned is included on this group.
If that's all you got to conclude that carpalx layouts are the worst, that’s a very weak argument...
These layouts resulted from scientific studies and math simulations, not mere opinions.


QGMLWB for Dvorak typists
Quote
Une trtu nut nk est mhdio gnc .tuednuta do dujpcata nu esdo ,incmv
Dk eshe-o hpp gnc ,ne en jnujpcat eshe jhimhpq phgnceo hit est ynioew eshe’o h rtig ythb hi,c.tuevvv
Estot phgnceo itocpeta kin. ojdtuedkdj oecadto hua .hes od.cphednuow une .tit nmdudnuov


QGMLWB for Colemak typists
Quote
Tis eyet ite iv soe mnhdr liu fet****ea hr htcpuaea it sohr wdium.
Hv sons'r npp liu wis si citcpuae sons cndmnpx pnliusr nde soe gidrs, sons’r n yedl genk ndwufets...
Soere pnliusr derupsea vdif rchetshvhc rsuaher nta fnso rhfupn****r, tis fede imhthitr.


And QGMLWB for QWERTY typists
Quote
Fld kokf lfk lv d;k mjhgs uli ekfdhlfka hs hfcriaka lf d;hs wglim.
Hv d;jd's jrr uli wld dl clfcriak d;jd cjgmjrx rjulids jgk d;k tlgsd' d;jd’s j okgu tkjn jgwiekfd...
D;ksk rjulids gksirdka vgle schkfdhvhc sdiahks jfa ejd; sheirjdhlfs' fld ekgk lmhfhlfs.


Type the same paragraph multiple times to get a feel for it.

Offline Input Nirvana

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 11:20:42 »
Quote from: pyro;466789
If you translate the letters of a text to QGMLWB you'll find that typing it feels pretty good (once you get over the fact that you're typing nonsense).

Look here


QGMLWB for Dvorak typists


QGMLWB for Colemak typists


And QGMLWB for QWERTY typists


Type the same paragraph multiple times to get a feel for it.

Do I need more coffee? Help me understand this, I know you're making a point, but it's escaping me. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.
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Offline dorkvader

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 11:59:08 »
Quote from: input nirvana;467132
Do I need more coffee? Help me understand this, I know you're making a point, but it's escaping me. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.

Yeah, he "translated" the same fingerstrokes to other layouts. If you putt up a layout diagram, you'll see that U in Dvorak is the same keystroke (left index) as F in QWERTY. He took that first paragraph, and "rewrote it" in the new layout. If you're a Dvorak user, and type the dvorak paragraph, you'll get a "feel" for how much your hands/fingers move when using the carpalx layout.

I plan to try it out now.

Edit: I dunno: I remember hitting that "j" key an awful lot (which looks like it corresponds to "c" in carpalx) which was pretty uncomfortable.

Though I'm not really a "bottom row" kind of guy.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:05:54 by dorkvader »
let me put together your keyboard! Special offer, $10 to assemble an "inifity" keyboard.
"One should watch a film adaptation of a favorite book only after considering, very carefully, the fact that the casting of the film may very well become the permanent casting of the book in one's mind. This is a very real hazard."

Online Tony

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QGMLWY keyboard layout
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 22:20:56 »
After trying pyro's translation I feel that this keyboard layout utilize the index finger and middle finger very much.

I am a Colemak user.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm