Author Topic: alternative to tenkeyless idea  (Read 5786 times)

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Offline N8N

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alternative to tenkeyless idea
« on: Wed, 30 November 2011, 19:14:02 »
here's a cut 'n' paste from a post that I made in a thread in the general keyboards forum...  I actually have a tenkeyless Leopold but don't know why someone hasn't made a keyboard as I describe below.  Figured I'd post this here since WASD seems to be very responsive to ideas/requests from the forums.  Cut 'n' paste follows

--

What might actually be a really cool layout would be a conventional numpad but with the nav layer changed to match the traditional nav/arrow keys rather than the different one that is conventionally used. As in, if you overlaid the nav cluster and arrows directly on the numpad, the secondary functions of the numpad would correspond exactly. You'd have to add an extra num lock key somewhere (directly to the right of "pause/break?" Since there'll still be another row of keys there anyway) though as then the traditional location for num lock would now be insert. You'd also have to use a numpad with a "double zero" key. The advantage would be that you wouldn't lose the numpad enter for those that use it while on the mouse, and also you'd have both the familiar numpad layout and also the familiar nav cluster, BUT the whole keyboard would only be 3/4" wider than a "normal" tenkeyless keyboard.

Now that I think about it, that's genius. Someone please build me a keyboard like this! I use the nav cluster; I use the numpad; I never ever use the navigation layer of the numpad... So...

--

OK, that's my brilliant (?) idea.  Dunno how far along the tenkeyless design is, if it is even still in the works.  I'm using the Leopold now, but I really do miss the numpad... if nothing else when tracking packages it makes entering the numbers so much easier.  Maybe I will take it back to work and give it a good honest try, but I'm not warming up to the standard tenkeyless design.

That, and make sure it is available in MX clear and please use a grey switch for the space bar.  OK, have I used up all my wishes yet? :)
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline wasdkeyboards

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 30 November 2011, 19:37:31 »
I saw that thread in the General Discussion forum and looked at all the previous threads about that idea as well.

I already made a mock up of it late last night and have some pretty good ideas. The only thing is, I'll only have enough capital to fund one new keyboard for next year. Right now, it seems like everyone is just looking for a standard 87-key "tenkeyless" variant.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33582[/ATTACH]

This variant makes the numpad a little different by adding a "00" key, which may be awkward for some users. But, it does allow natural placement of all the arrow, pgup, and ins key clusters. Numlock is moved to the top left and adds a "%" key which I'm thinking might be a useful key.

The extra keys with numlock off would be used as multimedia buttons. The extra left/right arrows would be back and forward web browsing hotkeys and the rest are for multimedia play/next/vol, etc. I'm not sure about that configuration right now as I don't like forcing someone to use a particular set of keys.

Lastly, I'm not sure how firmware development will be. The scancodes will need to adjusted to ensure proper functions in various OS's.

Let me know what you think.
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Offline whiskerBox

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« Reply #2 on: Wed, 30 November 2011, 20:41:35 »
Quote from: wasdkeyboards;461625


(Attachment Link) 33582[/ATTACH]



Thats very interesting I like it, you get everything from a full size in a almost tkl format
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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« Reply #3 on: Wed, 30 November 2011, 21:14:45 »
I like the physical layout. Not 100% sure about the mapping. Perhaps make it programmable instead?

Offline fireball87

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« Reply #4 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 02:26:13 »
This is actually one of the more interesting keyboard types I think, I use the 10 key too much to want to just drop it, considering my desk is big enough that it's a non issue.  It might be worth the space gain to do this kind of combo in my opinion (honestly I'd likely rather just get a HHKB for a majoirty of my work).

As for that specific layout, I have a few questions.  
One would be why wouldn't you leave the 0 key standard, and just use 1235 as your arrows?
Are the dotted arrows just clones of the standard arrows?
Is there actually a key code for double 0, or would that have to be handled in firmware (AKA Not be re-mappable, I can't see myself having a use for a 00 key, 000 keys I can somewhat understand, though they're limited in use.  00 keys I thought were just a hand-me-down of the typewriter erra, when you actually needed to type 5.00, where as now for most numeric uses you are more then likely going to be software that will handle that formatting.  Then again, 00 keys are still somewhat common.)

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #5 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 02:53:44 »
If you don't mind ISO enter and Kana modifiers, someone has done most of the work for you:
http://www.filcochina.com/Products.asp?Bigclassname=ProductsJ&productname=FKB100MNB
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33595[/ATTACH]

Also Cherry used to sell this in the US:
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Industrial/1800/index.htm
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33596[/ATTACH]
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2011, 02:57:10 by digitalleftovers »
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Offline wasdkeyboards

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« Reply #6 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 03:05:36 »
Quote from: dante;461670
Hey wasd dude what software did you use to generate that layout?  I'm want to design a new poker esque keyboard and would like something to drop/move keys around in GUI fashion.

This was done in CorelDraw. You can download the template files from here: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/custom-keyboard-options/custom-option-upload-your-key-design.html

You can also edit in AI or even just use Photoshop to edit the PDF and just cut and move things around.

Quote from: lysol;461680
I like the physical layout. Not 100% sure about the mapping. Perhaps make it programmable instead?

Programmable would be ideal. I'll see what I can do. Again, I wasn't 100% about the mapping either. And I don't think I'll ever feel that way. No matter how you map it, you can't please everyone unless its standard. That is why making a non-standard layout is a big risk.

Quote from: fireball87;461819
This is actually one of the more interesting keyboard types I think, I use the 10 key too much to want to just drop it, considering my desk is big enough that it's a non issue.  It might be worth the space gain to do this kind of combo in my opinion (honestly I'd likely rather just get a HHKB for a majoirty of my work).

As for that specific layout, I have a few questions.  
One would be why wouldn't you leave the 0 key standard, and just use 1235 as your arrows?
Are the dotted arrows just clones of the standard arrows?
Is there actually a key code for double 0, or would that have to be handled in firmware (AKA Not be re-mappable, I can't see myself having a use for a 00 key, 000 keys I can somewhat understand, though they're limited in use.  00 keys I thought were just a hand-me-down of the typewriter erra, when you actually needed to type 5.00, where as now for most numeric uses you are more then likely going to be software that will handle that formatting.  Then again, 00 keys are still somewhat common.)

Leaving the zero key standard would move the arrow cluster up one row. Not only will the position be off and makes you adjust, but the feel will be different because the keycaps will be a different profile than what you would be used to. The zero might then also get in the way. The idea was to preserve the feel of a standard 87-key design, without totally giving up the numpad.

The 00 is the most common key found on 18+ key numpads that I've seen. Personally, I don't see a need for 00 or 000. For me, I might as well have it be another 0 key.

I think the answer would be to have it programmable. On a software level, that is not that hard to achieve, but to have it be programmable on a hardware level (since smaller form factors are more likely to be carried around) would be a different story.
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Offline wasdkeyboards

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« Reply #7 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 03:12:10 »
Quote from: digitalleftovers;461826
If you don't mind ISO enter and Kana modifiers, someone has done most of the work for you:
http://www.filcochina.com/Products.asp?Bigclassname=ProductsJ&productname=FKB100MNB
(Attachment Link) 33595[/ATTACH]

Also Cherry used to sell this in the US:
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Industrial/1800/index.htm
(Attachment Link) 33596[/ATTACH]

I've seen those as well, but they modify the main 61-key section is modified.

The most likely route for a WASD V2 is just a standard 87-key layout with some extra features like detachable, USB ports, etc. I'm just throwing this layout out there to see if anyone (or rather a lot people) are interested.
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Offline fireball87

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« Reply #8 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 03:22:32 »
Quote from: wasdkeyboards;461830
The 00 is the most common key found on 18+ key numpads that I've seen. Personally, I don't see a need for 00 or 000. For me, I might as well have it be another 0 key.

I think the answer would be to have it programmable. On a software level, that is not that hard to achieve, but to have it be programmable on a hardware level (since smaller form factors are more likely to be carried around) would be a different story.
 I think I'd have to adjust just as much to a split zero then a raised arrow cluster.  Even if they both carried the same functionality.  That said I'd adjust to either pretty quickly.  Seems a compromise will be made either way (and another compromise, in that if you have keys between your arrow cluster and your delete cluster, that will make touch typing the delete cluster a slightly different skill, as when I do it, I slide my fingers and place them exactly like I do on the arrow keys, something that I won't be able to do by feel if there is keys between.), ah well.

--edit-- For the filco layout, loss of right shift is intolerable.  The cherry layout seems off to me too.  To be honestly I wish I could get a mech keyboard with the apple keyboard layout, but I don't think we'll be seeing comfortable mech half keys any time soon.

Offline Findecanor

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« Reply #9 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 03:44:49 »
Quote from: wasdkeyboards;461625
The only thing is, I'll only have enough capital to fund one new keyboard for next year.
Does that mean that there won't be any keyboards in ISO layout?

Quote from: wasdkeyboards;461625
Lastly, I'm not sure how firmware development will be. The scancodes will need to adjusted to ensure proper functions in various OS's.
On a normal keyboard, the controller does not keep state for the num pad. It only lights and darkens the "Num lock" light after commands from the host. The keys on the numeric key pad always emit the same key codes.

I think the best and simplest way to for this keyboard would be that the state of the "Num lock" light defines the mode. Numeric mode: numeric scancodes, Arrow mode: arrow/nav/media scancodes.

If the keyboard controller would have its own numlock-state, then I am afraid that there might become a mismatch between
the keyboard's and host's states. Users may get the numpad arrow keys instead of numbers.

I think that there is a HHKB-style keyboards with an embedded numpads that has a similar problem.
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Offline bpiphany

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« Reply #10 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 04:04:36 »
Quote from: wasdkeyboards;461625
I saw that thread in the General Discussion forum and looked at all the previous threads about that idea as well.

I already made a mock up of it late last night and have some pretty good ideas. The only thing is, I'll only have enough capital to fund one new keyboard for next year. Right now, it seems like everyone is just looking for a standard 87-key "tenkeyless" variant.

(Attachment Link) 33582[/ATTACH]

This variant makes the numpad a little different by adding a "00" key, which may be awkward for some users. But, it does allow natural placement of all the arrow, pgup, and ins key clusters. Numlock is moved to the top left and adds a "%" key which I'm thinking might be a useful key.

The extra keys with numlock off would be used as multimedia buttons. The extra left/right arrows would be back and forward web browsing hotkeys and the rest are for multimedia play/next/vol, etc. I'm not sure about that configuration right now as I don't like forcing someone to use a particular set of keys.

Lastly, I'm not sure how firmware development will be. The scancodes will need to adjusted to ensure proper functions in various OS's.

Let me know what you think.

This is the layout I would have suggested (actually did before I saw this =)

But tell me about the "%" key. Would it be to tyoe "%" or for use like the calculator "%" key? Myself I think that the "" key would have to be the silliest thing added to a calculator... As a mathematician I still to this day have no idea of how to use it properly (partly because I never do I guess). I always have to figure out what it really does by investigating some examples, I prefer the hands on method of dividing by 100 where needed. This might be easier to me just because I understand the math behind it, and someone who doesn't could have use for it. On the other hand I think it would be possible to just teach them the "divide by 100"-mantra instead of using a key they don't really know what it does =P

Keys I would see as more useful from a calculator point of view are "^", "Sqrt", and "Log". I usually change the primary function of the "NumLock" to "^" on my own keyboard since I use it heavily.

Edit: I've also been experimenting with adding a ":" key to the numpad. I use that a lot also, when entering dates primarily. I would probably go for this rather than a "00" key.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 December 2011, 04:06:45 by PrinsValium »

Offline IvanIvanovich

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« Reply #11 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 11:22:59 »
It could be risky introducing this layout, but there is some advantage too. It would be safer to do a tenkeyless, but you will set yourself apart more by offering something more 'unique'. As pointed out there are some similar boards from Filco, Cherry, Thermaltake and probably a couple others. But they all have something non standard in physical key layouts. This is an improvement as it does not break from a standard ansi (iso later?) arrangement. I know a few other people that would like this type of space saving keyboard since none of them want to give up having a numpad even though they probably really don't use it much. Perhaps you could get permission to use / license Cherry Tools for it. As long as the controller is compatible all the work is done already.

Offline N8N

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« Reply #12 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 15:07:34 »
Quote from: digitalleftovers;461826
If you don't mind ISO enter and Kana modifiers, someone has done most of the work for you:
http://www.filcochina.com/Products.asp?Bigclassname=ProductsJ&productname=FKB100MNB
(Attachment Link) 33595[/ATTACH]


whoa.  Do want.  ANSI would be preferred though obviously.

Quote from: digitalleftovers;461826
Also Cherry used to sell this in the US:
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/Industrial/1800/index.htm
(Attachment Link) 33596[/ATTACH]



I actually used an 1800 for a while and hated it, because I actually use the nav cluster and it's not where I want it to be.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline digitalleftovers

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« Reply #13 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 15:20:51 »
I think this is a cool idea.  What about additional layers in the numpad to help with space issues?  One could be for arrows and maybe media/macro keys, and the other for tradiitional numpad.  As a ducky 1087 owner, having the numlock in a separate layer is a nightmare, so I can't reecommend that or any of the other lock keys in a separate layer.  They don't work with KVM's...
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #14 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 15:47:01 »
Quote from: wasdkeyboards;461625
I saw that thread in the General Discussion forum and looked at all the previous threads about that idea as well.

I already made a mock up of it late last night and have some pretty good ideas. The only thing is, I'll only have enough capital to fund one new keyboard for next year. Right now, it seems like everyone is just looking for a standard 87-key "tenkeyless" variant.

(Attachment Link) 33582[/ATTACH]

This variant makes the numpad a little different by adding a "00" key, which may be awkward for some users. But, it does allow natural placement of all the arrow, pgup, and ins key clusters. Numlock is moved to the top left and adds a "%" key which I'm thinking might be a useful key.

The extra keys with numlock off would be used as multimedia buttons. The extra left/right arrows would be back and forward web browsing hotkeys and the rest are for multimedia play/next/vol, etc. I'm not sure about that configuration right now as I don't like forcing someone to use a particular set of keys.

Lastly, I'm not sure how firmware development will be. The scancodes will need to adjusted to ensure proper functions in various OS's.

Let me know what you think.



I think you nailed the idea exactly, and the idea of using the "leftover" keys on the nav/arrow layer for media keys is brilliant.  The only thing I would change is that I don't think that you even need left and right arrows on 1 and 3 since they're already on 0 and . (so you can use 1 and 3 for something else if you like)

I don't know how everyone else feels about this layout, but I think that I would possibly like it better than a traditional tenkeyless, and could easily see it having a place on my desk.  And just when I thought that I had enough keyboards.
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Online TheProfosist

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« Reply #15 on: Thu, 01 December 2011, 22:46:08 »
I think the idea is good its close to what I came up with using the Phantom 7bit layout but less customised and more standard which is what your going to need to sell to the average consumer. I think if you promoted this you would get more business than if you just did a TKL. Ill take a crack at the layout and see what I can come up with soon. Also I dont think Num Lock could be actual num lock it would be more of a Fn lock and it would be preferred if you used the num row number instead of the num pad numbers then you could use their symbols.

Offline cbf123

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« Reply #16 on: Fri, 02 December 2011, 13:34:09 »
Quote from: N8N;461607
here's a cut 'n' paste from a post that I made in a thread in the general keyboards forum...  I actually have a tenkeyless Leopold but don't know why someone hasn't made a keyboard as I describe below.  Figured I'd post this here since WASD seems to be very responsive to ideas/requests from the forums.  

I'd prefer either a full tenkeyless, or else one with the numberpad over on the left side of the keyboard.  Gotta get that mouse as close as possible to the letters.
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Offline Quarzac

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« Reply #17 on: Fri, 02 December 2011, 16:13:58 »
I really, really like this idea. I would definitely buy one if the keys were all kept standard otherwise. Things like shift, the modifiers.
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Offline N8N

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« Reply #18 on: Sun, 04 December 2011, 12:37:47 »
Quote from: cbf123;462945
I'd prefer either a full tenkeyless, or else one with the numberpad over on the left side of the keyboard.  Gotta get that mouse as close as possible to the letters.

If that's how you feel, you might be a good candidate for one of the tenkeyless boards already available with an external numberpad.  I brought this up as an alternative because it seems to be a good way to get someone's right hand who's used to using a full 104-key board and uses the numpad w/ right hand still closer to the alphas than it would be otherwise.  I don't think that there's any "perfect" keyboard but this seems to be a niche that isn't filled; both Leopold and Filco are currently making standard tenkeyless models, why go head to head with them?
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline hoggy

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« Reply #19 on: Sun, 04 December 2011, 14:57:40 »
I think your best bet is something like an access akc127.  Someone has done that exact mod, ah - here it is

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33911[/ATTACH]


http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?10939-Roccat-Arvo-(I-like-the-concept)

Offline dorkvader

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« Reply #20 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 13:36:53 »
Ohright, I forgot about that one. If it's the same person I'm thinking of, he's added a lot more cool keycaps to it. Those WYSE arrowkeys are good.

Yeah, a programmable access might fit the bill. They're pretty versatile. They also have good matrix ones.
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Offline slueth

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« Reply #21 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 18:32:06 »
I really like this current design but I prefer 7bit's, also its programmable.  Tenkeyless is great but not everyone knows about the benefits on tenkeyless and the main issue I hear that people say they don't want tenkeyless is no numpad.  So I would include a numpad for sure WASD.

Offline wasdkeyboards

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« Reply #22 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 18:37:35 »
After reading that other thread, it looks like Razer's Marauder keyboard has the exact same layout except PrtSc, ScrLk, and Pause keys after the NumLock instead. Obviously, it isn't a mech, but did anyone ever try that layout out?
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Online TheProfosist

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« Reply #23 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 18:47:24 »
Quote from: wasdkeyboards;464810
After reading that other thread, it looks like Razer's Marauder keyboard has the exact same layout except PrtSc, ScrLk, and Pause keys after the NumLock instead. Obviously, it isn't a mech, but did anyone ever try that layout out?
The Thermaltake Meka should be semi close as well http://tinyurl.com/6omnlqm .

Online TheProfosist

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« Reply #24 on: Mon, 05 December 2011, 20:50:51 »
Heres my idea for the layout that your thinking of:

Default Layer:


Fn Layer:


I used Fn instead of Num Lock as you can use the normal Num Lock as it wouldnt work because of how the OS recognizes that function. Because of this I also use the normal number keys, their shift functions may be useful when using the number pad. Additionally with our current controllers that we use to make custom boards with custom layouts you can not lock a layer which would be needed so you may need to look into using one of these for the Fn key. I dont know if you will have the same limitations. Also I have seen on many number pads that the + key is split as well I could put together layout with that in mind.

Offline Soarer

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« Reply #25 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 06:19:28 »
Hmm, that's a bit strange having the number row on the numpad - some of the numpad functions wouldn't be available, like ALT+numbers to directly enter a character code. And it gives the firmware headaches to have multiple keys producing the same keycodes, when deciding what to do when someone presses both '1's, for example.

Here's my idea - do more to do less!

I'll call the key switching between the two layouts 'Mode'.

When Mode is off, the numpad area would function exactly as a regular 104-key numpad (albeit with one extra key lower-left doing something, since Insert is split into two single unit size keys).
NumLock would be there and operate as normal.

When mode is on, the numpad area becomes the cursors, pgup/dn etc and media controls.
(NumLock would not be in that layer, just as it isn't there on a tenkeyless board).

What's nice is that it gives you all the functions of a full-size 'board with media keys, in a compact format.

To achieve that, the firmware changes would be minimal (I think the only tricky choice is what to do if someone is holding down a key or keys on the numpad when Mode is pressed). In fact, using that latching switch and one or two extra ICs, it's possible that a completely standard controller and firmware could be used!
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 December 2011, 06:22:02 by Soarer »

Offline oneproduct

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« Reply #26 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 09:59:15 »
Just wanted to give a show of support for this concept over tenkeyless. As someone already said, tenkeyless boards are already available elsewhere from companies with bigger brand names that may be hard to compete with. A keyboard like this would be far more unique so it may guarantee some amount of market share from that.

The uniqueness also fits in with the custom keycap idea and I bet you could convince a lot of "normal" people about using this kind of layout by pointing at the Razer Marauder. If people saw that this same kind of layout was made by Razer and marketed for Starcraft but is now available in a mechanical format, I'm sure they would be interested.
Poker | Filco Tenkeyless | Realforce Tenkeyless Variable Silent | Truly Ergonomic | Kinesis Contoured Advantage | IBM Model M SSK | Cherry G80-3600LYC | TG3 w/ trackpad
Kensington Slimblade | RollerMouse Free2 | Logitech M570 | Microsoft Trackball Explorer
Colemak

Offline Greenbean

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alternative to tenkeyless idea
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 14:41:53 »
Do I like the layout?

Yes, it's 98% PERFECT.

Do I like the mapping?

No, but of course, all that can be changed.


I feel that this could truly be the next step in keyboard layouts. Something innovative to really say that WASD is bringing something new to the table, again.

I love the idea and would be happy to plop down a Benjamin and a half for a keyboard like this.

Online TheProfosist

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alternative to tenkeyless idea
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 17:55:34 »
Quote from: Soarer;465109
Hmm, that's a bit strange having the number row on the numpad - some of the numpad functions wouldn't be available, like ALT+numbers to directly enter a character code. And it gives the firmware headaches to have multiple keys producing the same keycodes, when deciding what to do when someone presses both '1's, for example.

Here's my idea - do more to do less!

I'll call the key switching between the two layouts 'Mode'.

When Mode is off, the numpad area would function exactly as a regular 104-key numpad (albeit with one extra key lower-left doing something, since Insert is split into two single unit size keys).
NumLock would be there and operate as normal.

When mode is on, the numpad area becomes the cursors, pgup/dn etc and media controls.
(NumLock would not be in that layer, just as it isn't there on a tenkeyless board).

What's nice is that it gives you all the functions of a full-size 'board with media keys, in a compact format.

To achieve that, the firmware changes would be minimal (I think the only tricky choice is what to do if someone is holding down a key or keys on the numpad when Mode is pressed). In fact, using that latching switch and one or two extra ICs, it's possible that a completely standard controller and firmware could be used!
Are you saying when it switches modes it will automatically switch num lock on or that a num lock key would still have to exist in that mode. The second is easily done if that is what you were thinking. I just didnt do that because I didnt se a reason to need to use the actual num pad numbers.






Also when in the mode for the number pad you wouldnt have arrow keys though you could just switch back. But if you did want to have number keys in that mode you could use something like right Shift, Win, Menu, Ctrl. Not saying that is optimal, its probably best not to have any in that mode just for ease of use and adoption rate.

Offline Soarer

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alternative to tenkeyless idea
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 18:45:41 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;465395
Are you saying when it switches modes it will automatically switch num lock on or that a num lock key would still have to exist in that mode. The second is easily done if that is what you were thinking. I just didnt do that because I didnt se a reason to need to use the actual num pad numbers.
NumLock state would not change when switching mode. (There's no need for it to be in the non-numpad mode, of course).

Quote from: TheProfosist;465395
Also when in the mode for the number pad you wouldnt have arrow keys though you could just switch back. But if you did want to have number keys in that mode you could use something like right Shift, Win, Menu, Ctrl. Not saying that is optimal, its probably best not to have any in that mode just for ease of use and adoption rate.
You wouldn't have the tenkeyless style arrows, but if NumLock is off you have the old-school cursors! I know they aren't popular, but some people like them. But the main thinking behind my suggestion is to stick to standards as far as possible; you'd never get stuck needing a key you didn't have. And that doing so doesn't complicate things - it makes it simpler to implement :)