Author Topic: Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses  (Read 9619 times)

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Offline aogail

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Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 13:55:06 »
In the day or so I have been using my TE keyboard (104 with blues), I have noticed one functional issue. The right arrow key does not register about a third of the time. In rarer cases, it will register twice for one press. I have sent a message to TE about it, but no response yet -- it'll be a while if history is any indication ;)

Has anyone else encountered any functional issues with their TE keyboard?

Offline Gerk

  • Posts: 781
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 14:19:20 »
Nothing here so far in that regard.  But ... I have the model 109 and 3 out of 4 of the blank keys and the left space bar (when selecting to split the space bars) don't register any keycodes when pressing them in OSX.  Might be PEBKAC at this point, not sure.  I will wait a bit for things to settle with the TE folks and email them with some questions ... but for now I'm not seeing the issues you're having, all keys (that I get keycodes for) are working perfectly here.
Rosewill RK-9000RE (reds) | Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (browns) | Leopold TKL (browns) | F21-7D "Mechanical Keyboard" (Blue Alps) | TE 109 (reds) | Filco Majestouch TKL (blues) | Goldtouch V2 x 2

Offline Draconian

  • Posts: 15
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 15:29:15 »
I think I'm getting some doubled-keypresses too. I've certainly noticed several repeated "t" characters, but when try to reproduce the sequence it registers correctly. I guess this is one of the risks in bleeding-edge technology?

Offline boli

  • Posts: 350
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 05:20:27 »
So far I've not experienced any missed or double characters (105 brown here). Same issue with left spacebar (when mapped to "alternate") as Gerk, but I guess that's more of an OS X issue.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Gerk

  • Posts: 781
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 17 December 2011, 12:15:05 »
Quote from: boli;472689
So far I've not experienced any missed or double characters (105 brown here). Same issue with left spacebar (when mapped to "alternate") as Gerk, but I guess that's more of an OS X issue.

Yep I think it is something specific to OSX as a Linux user reported that they are getting keycodes from the left space bar when it's set to alternate.
Rosewill RK-9000RE (reds) | Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent (browns) | Leopold TKL (browns) | F21-7D "Mechanical Keyboard" (Blue Alps) | TE 109 (reds) | Filco Majestouch TKL (blues) | Goldtouch V2 x 2

Offline Architect

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Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 20 December 2011, 07:35:56 »
Haven't seen that. I did another thread about a wake from sleep issue I'm having.

Otherwise ... I just found out that on the 109 the extra keys apparently aren't sending any key events when pressed? I'm using KeyDump and pressing the keys on the lower right and left hand of the keyboard don't register anything. Firmware probably, but if true how did they expect this to be used? The pain continues ...
TECK 209 Blank Keys; Leopold Number Pad; X-Keys Professional; X-Keys 84.

Offline boli

  • Posts: 350
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 20 December 2011, 08:13:52 »
Quote from: Architect;474327
I just found out that on the 109 the extra keys apparently aren't sending any key events when pressed? I'm using KeyDump and pressing the keys on the lower right and left hand of the keyboard don't register anything. Firmware probably, but if true how did they expect this to be used?

Most likely a stupid question, but my 105's DIP switch was set to 104 mode, rather than 105/109 mode. Did you make sure the setting fits your model or set it accordingly?
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Architect

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  • TECK Lover
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 20 December 2011, 09:58:52 »
Quote from: boli;474334
Most likely a stupid question, but my 105's DIP switch was set to 104 mode, rather than 105/109 mode. Did you make sure the setting fits your model or set it accordingly?

They were all set to the default position. I set it up to 109, but all that seems to do is to remove the Del key in place of International 1, whatever that is. I'll just wait until the SDK so I can set it up the way I want.

The manual sure clarifies a lot of questions I had before, I didn't know that I also have a left control and right option up there.
TECK 209 Blank Keys; Leopold Number Pad; X-Keys Professional; X-Keys 84.

Offline boli

  • Posts: 350
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 21 December 2011, 02:45:31 »
Quote from: Architect;474402
I set it up to 109, but all that seems to do is to remove the Del key in place of International 1

Right, International-1 is a key we have on swiss keyboards:

Maybe it's an OS thing, dunno. Hopefully they'll release their software soon (but I'm not holding my breath).
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline aogail

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Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 24 January 2012, 15:58:39 »
It appears that my problems have disappeared. I don't know when it happened, really; just that I was going through some code last week (I am a software engineer) and realized that the right arrow wasn't missing a beat. The 'a' key has stopped doubling, too. Neither has recurred since then. My guess is that I got a couple switches that needed a break-in.

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 57
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 22:16:42 »
I've seen a whole bunch of double keypresses. I found that my enter key was missing a bunch of keypresses but this is OK now... hopefully the double-keypress issue goes away too. We'll see. I may just end up returning this keyboard (or selling it)...

Did anyone else see progress on the double-keypress issue? Is the general consensus that it goes away after a while?

Offline kuato

  • Posts: 16
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 08 February 2012, 23:03:42 »
Quote from: heuristicist;509800
I've seen a whole bunch of double keypresses. I found that my enter key was missing a bunch of keypresses but this is OK now... hopefully the double-keypress issue goes away too. We'll see. I may just end up returning this keyboard (or selling it)...

Did anyone else see progress on the double-keypress issue? Is the general consensus that it goes away after a while?


That's unfortunate :(

I've run this on my Windows and OSX machine and so far have not noticed this issue on either machine.

Offline boli

  • Posts: 350
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 01:45:34 »
Quote from: heuristicist;509800
I've seen a whole bunch of double keypresses. I found that my enter key was missing a bunch of keypresses but this is OK now... hopefully the double-keypress issue goes away too. We'll see. I may just end up returning this keyboard (or selling it)...

Did anyone else see progress on the double-keypress issue? Is the general consensus that it goes away after a while?

Haven't noticed anything like this during my rather limited testing (105 browns on OS X). Will test more soon and update.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline PetriW

  • Posts: 2
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 03:39:11 »
Quote from: heuristicist;509800
Did anyone else see progress on the double-keypress issue? Is the general consensus that it goes away after a while?
Yes I had this issue but it seemed to be due to me having a custom keyboard dll created with MKLC. Once I switched to a normal dll and AutoHotKey it went away.
It could be that it's the same as what others have though and it went away on its own.

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 57
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 09 February 2012, 22:34:25 »
I'm in Linux, and have seem this problem whether in plain TTY or else in a DE, accross multiple distros (mostly live environments). So far it hasn't really gone away---maybe some reductions but it's too random to tell. I'm getting a lot of double-spaces, double-down-arrows, double-ts, and now I'm also seeing backspace show up randomly! So some character I typed gets spontaneously wiped!

Ugh, I think I could like this keyboard but this problem is making it unusable. Too bad the company doesn't know how to conduct a business...

Offline Boerta

  • Posts: 22
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 09:24:39 »
I got my TE board yesterday, and I haven't noticed any problems yet, for what it's worth.

Offline biochem

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: New England
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 10:06:38 »
Quote from: aogail;472282
In the day or so I have been using my TE keyboard (104 with blues), I have noticed one functional issue. The right arrow key does not register about a third of the time. In rarer cases, it will register twice for one press. I have sent a message to TE about it, but no response yet -- it'll be a while if history is any indication ;)

Has anyone else encountered any functional issues with their TE keyboard?

I got my TE keyboard on Monday (also 104 with blues). The X and Down-Arrow keys have the same intermittent problem where they do not register ~1/3 of the keystrokes. The V key misses about one out of ten keystrokes.

I put in a RMA request Thursday evening. Hopefully this won't be a big hassle.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 February 2012, 22:43:29 by biochem »
Filco MJ2 tenkeyless (blues)
Heatware

Offline boli

  • Posts: 350
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 11:11:21 »
Have been using my TE at work since noon yesterday, no missed key presses so far (however the keyboard didn't work 4 out of 5 times after restarting my computer; had to replug it).
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 57
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 13:25:46 »
Quote from: biochem;511000
I put in a RMA request Thursday evening. Hopefully this won't be a big hassle.

Please keep us (or at least me ;p) updated on how that goes. I sent them an email and if I don't hear back soon I am also going to submit an RMA. I haven't yet decided if I want to take a risk on another one (maybe going with a 109/browns this time rather than the 104/blues) or just buy some crappy keyboard to hold me over until the ErgoDox's completion.

Offline biochem

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: New England
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 10 February 2012, 22:49:42 »
It is now Friday evening and I didn't get any email from TE about the RMA. I'm going to give them 2 more business days to respond before I tell PayPal that I want me money back.
Filco MJ2 tenkeyless (blues)
Heatware

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 57
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 11 February 2012, 22:28:28 »
Quote from: biochem;511483
It is now Friday evening and I didn't get any email from TE about the RMA. I'm going to give them 2 more business days to respond before I tell PayPal that I want me money back.

You've *definitely* got to keep us up-to-date on that one!

BTW, I wonder if the 104/blue line is the problem. Not to say all are bad, but I haven't heard someone with 105/109 or 104/brown say anything about it yet... Then again this is problem my human brain doing what it does best: find patterns in patternless data.

Offline zombieball

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Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 13 February 2012, 22:46:22 »
Quote from: heuristicist;512224
You've *definitely* got to keep us up-to-date on that one!

BTW, I wonder if the 104/blue line is the problem. Not to say all are bad, but I haven't heard someone with 105/109 or 104/brown say anything about it yet... Then again this is problem my human brain doing what it does best: find patterns in patternless data.

Hi guys,

I thought I would pipe in about my experiences so far.  I purchased a 104/blue and experienced issues with key presses not registering or registering twice.  This could certainly be an issue with the 104/blue line. For an idea about the rate at which my problems occurred I repeatedly typed my name and posted the results here: https://gist.github.com/1727786.  

I contacted TE and I asked if my problems were due to a firmware issue that could be fixed by flashing a new firmware or if there was a unique hardware issue that warranted my keyboard being replaced.  They gave me a long winded email describing troubleshooting steps such as ensuring it is not an OS / driver issue (tried the keyboard in Windows + OSX and encountered the same problems), gave me a link to a silly little troubleshooting app that lights up keys on a virtual keyboard when they are pressed (I imagine just to ensure there are no dead keys), and instructed me to ensure I had a good USB connection, etc.   1 or 2 days after telling them none of these steps solved my problem they instructed me to fill out an RMA and return the keyboard.  I shipped it back via Canadapost Express COD on Weds. Feb 8th.  I received my replacement keyboard today, Mon. Feb. 13th.  I have only used the keyboard briefly, but unfortunately it seems the problem still persists.  The problem is not as bad as it was with my previous keyboard (double key presses registering about 1/2 of the rate they used to) but it is still present.  I will use the keyboard a bit more this week and post back as to if the issue goes away.  However, in my opinion I feel like the problem is due to poor firmware (lousy software key de-bouncing perhaps?) and not hardware, so I don't imagine repeated use of the keyboard will solve the problem.

I do have a tip for anyone trying to contact Truly Ergonomic.  As many of you who have tried contacting them are probably well aware of almost all their email addresses seem to go to a general inbox that probably gets checked once in a blue moon and responds with a frustrating auto-reply.  Instead I took a shot in the dark and looked up their admin contact email registered with their domain (e.g. http://whois.domaintools.com/trulyergonomic.com).  They seem to have registered their domain using a private domain name registration service (whoisproof) but it lists an email address that promisses to forward all messages to Truly Ergonomics.  Hoping I would get through to a different inbox I have CC'd this address on all my contacts with TE.  Not sure if that is what eventually got their attention or not but its worth a shot.

Offline boli

  • Posts: 350
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 07:07:45 »
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I currently I can't find any reference to blue or red switches on the TE homepage. If I'm not being an idiot I doubt this is coincidence.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Himatin

  • Posts: 1
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 07:21:17 »
I noticed the same. But is it really possible, that it has to do with this issue?
How can the internal mechanics of the keyswitches trigger this kind of behaviour? Shouldn't they be interchangable?

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 57
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 14 February 2012, 08:34:47 »
Quote from: boli;514031
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I currently I can't find any reference to blue or red switches on the TE homepage. If I'm not being an idiot I doubt this is coincidence.

Interesting! Looks like only browns now. I do remember seeing that a bunch of the keyboards were backordered.

Quote from: Himatin;514035
I noticed the same. But is it really possible, that it has to do with this issue?
How can the internal mechanics of the keyswitches trigger this kind of behaviour? Shouldn't they be interchangable?

That's what I thought! But it's always possible they got/used a bad batch of blues.

Offline biochem

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: New England
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 08:49:22 »
I followed up my Feb 9 request for an RMA with an email on Feb 13 but still got no response. I just opened up a PayPal claim against them. We'll see if this gets a response from TE.
Filco MJ2 tenkeyless (blues)
Heatware

Offline biochem

  • Posts: 226
  • Location: New England
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 15 February 2012, 19:39:36 »
The PayPal claim prompted a quick response from TE. It's unfortunate that I had to resort to that to get them to respond. In any case, they will pay to have me ship the keyboard back to them and I can get a replacement or a refund. I am satisfied with this resolution.

In the email they said:
Quote
[SIZE=-1]We have spent several days researching this issue, and  we have concluded that the problem you are having in regard to the  key(s) that appear to malfunction lies within faulty keyswitches. This  issue is neither the keyboard's electronics nor the firmware itself.[/SIZE]
As suggested earlier in this thread, it appears that they may have had a bad batch of blue switches.
Filco MJ2 tenkeyless (blues)
Heatware

Offline heuristicist

  • Posts: 57
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 00:47:15 »
I just got the same email. I submitted an RMA yesterday but no PayPal claim yet. I'm probably going to ask them to send me browns instead, since a) I'd like to avoid more trouble and b) I haven't tried browns before. I had tried blues and blacks before this, and was pretty sure I didn't like linear keyswitches, and didn't really mind the noise of the blues, but I should probably give browns a go sometime too, and this might be the right opportunity.

Offline djcybermyth

  • Posts: 22
Got the Blues
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 09:50:43 »
Quote from: heuristicist;515883
I just got the same email. I submitted an RMA yesterday but no PayPal claim yet. I'm probably going to ask them to send me browns instead, since a) I'd like to avoid more trouble and b) I haven't tried browns before. I had tried blues and blacks before this, and was pretty sure I didn't like linear keyswitches, and didn't really mind the noise of the blues, but I should probably give browns a go sometime too, and this might be the right opportunity.


My friend and I both ordered 104 blues which have shown to have the chattering key problem and both received this same RMA email today.  It seems that they are having a massive blue switch problems since they are no longer offering blues on the website, and from what I can tell, only people with blues seem to be experiencing problems.  Anyone else agree?

I really like the feel / sound of the blues, but in the interest of getting a keyboard that works, I'm going to see if I can get browns via exchange.

I'll let you know how it goes for both my friend and I.

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2826
Truly Ergonomic missing right arrow key presses
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 16 February 2012, 13:13:44 »
Anyone with 109 / blues ? I wonder if this problem affects the 109 keyboard as well, or just the 104/105.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard