Why is Photoshop such a piece of crap??

[Spharx]

I am used to photo-shop and every time I try to use gimp on my Linux laptop I always think "wtf is this ****" and switch to my desktop computer an do the "shop"
The things that you are used to are always the best!

[TheSoulhunter]

Actually I find it rather easy to use, but perhaps just because I use it for more than a decade already...
Granted, some filters could be improved/added, also the lack of real "script-ability" sucks (you can only "record" action flows)
But for photo retouching, advanced manipulation there arent really much alternatives with the same capabilities (Paintshop Pro?)

[mr_a500]

Sure, but there are limits on how much you can dumb things down for new users and not gimp the program for user already familiar with the program. I think it is probably the most accessible of the professional software I've used. May be you're just using your workflow from other programs in PS, and that isn't going to work.

I am not talking about "dumbing it down" and I am not a new user. As I said, I've used Photoshop off and on since 1996. I even used Photoshop 1.

I am talking about bad design.

[keyboardlover]

Photoshop has a lot of features that are heavy on resources in regards to image manipulation. I think it can be slow, but that doesn't make it a piece of crap...

[fohat.digs]

I never paid the big bucks for Photoshop itself, but I have used Photoshop Elements for a decade at least.

There are obviously scores of features that I have never touched, and many others that I have barely used, but it seems lame.

Coming from truly primitive photo programs in the 1990s, I STILL miss some things like really clean and easy "make the whole picture lighter" that I do not think work nearly as well as they should.

And color balancing seems orders of magnitude more difficult than it needs to be.

And opening blank pages to paste things on, selecting to take the background instead of the foreground ......

I understand that "features" and "simplicity" are mutually exclusive, but it would be nice if there were a "simple" mode. My camera has one.

[Rajagra]

PS certainly has some quirks. There are basic things you can do in GIMP that don't (seem to) have a direct equivalent in PS.

Some things work in mysterious ways too. The healing brush tool is great when it works, but sometimes it does weird stuff; instead of fixing a flaw it seems to paint the area with a highly contrasting colour that isn't present anywhere else in the image. It's doing something smart. So smart that I can't work out what the hell it is, or how to make it do what I want. So I have to do it in some manual way instead.

Here's another. Suppose I want to make a selection that's the whole image apart from a 10 pixel border. Easy right? Just select the whole image then shrink the selection. Oh wait, you can't. Because when you select the whole image, Select/Modify/Contract is greyed out. Why?

[SmallFry]

Gimp...FTW! I myself have never ever used Photoshop at all unless you count the super simplistic iOS app)

[laffindude]

New user part was a general statement. Feel free not to include yourself since it was not implied.
I don't think watching videos or anything is really the way to learn. You just learn the quirks of how other people do things, which may make things seem convoluted and nonsensical. There are many ways to do similar things in PS. There are ways that make you dig into the menus, and there are ways that does nearly the same thing with different set of tools. After all, you're just manipulating pixels. You can replicate the result even if you had to paint pixel by pixel.

[Findecanor]

Anyone tried Pixelmator for Mac? I'm afraid that it is just another Photoshop clone with some features getting more attention than others.

[mr_a500]

I'll give a very simple example. Say I want to draw a circle. On other programs I've used, I select the circle icon, pick the brush thickness (or just use the current brush), make the circle and it draws it on its own layer in the current colour (resizeable, movable). Now here's what you have to do in Photoshop (from the CS3 help):

    In the Layers palette, click the New Layer button  to create a new layer for the circle or square. Isolating the circle or square on its own layer makes it easier to work with.
    Select the Elliptical Marquee tool  or the Rectangular Marquee tool  in the toolbox.
    Drag in the document window to create the shape. Hold down the Shift key while dragging to constrain the shape to a circle or square.
    Choose Edit > Stroke.
    In the Stroke dialog box, type a value for Width, and then click the color swatch to display the Adobe Color Picker.
    In the Adobe Color Picker, locate the color range you want using the triangle sliders on the color spectrum bar, and then click the desired color in the color field. The color you select appears in the top half of the color swatch. The original color remains in the bottom half. Click OK.
    Set the location for the stroke in relationship to the marquee by choosing Inside, Center, or Outside. Adjust the other settings as desired, and click OK. Photoshop strokes the line using the color and stroke settings you set.

Yeah... that's intuitive. Who knew you used the marquee tool - which is for cutting - to draw a circle? Why would I have to select a menu item, then type a number? What if I wanted to draw it using the current brush? Why is it not resizeable? Why can't I change its properties after it's created?

I've got many more examples.

Another thing, why does Photoshop make so much use of right-click for context when Macs by default have a bloody one button mouse?

[mr_a500]

Anyone tried Pixelmator for Mac? I'm afraid that it is just another Photoshop clone with some features getting more attention than others.

I checked that out before, but it's been Intel-only for quite a while.

[mr_a500]

PS certainly has some quirks. There are basic things you can do in GIMP that don't (seem to) have a direct equivalent in PS.

Some things work in mysterious ways too. The healing brush tool is great when it works, but sometimes it does weird stuff; instead of fixing a flaw it seems to paint the area with a highly contrasting colour that isn't present anywhere else in the image. It's doing something smart. So smart that I can't work out what the hell it is, or how to make it do what I want. So I have to do it in some manual way instead.

Here's another. Suppose I want to make a selection that's the whole image apart from a 10 pixel border. Easy right? Just select the whole image then shrink the selection. Oh wait, you can't. Because when you select the whole image, Select/Modify/Contract is greyed out. Why?

Hi there, Rajagra! Nice to see you back. :yo:

[Nighted]

Photoshop is used only when I must use it. For light duty stuff I've been using PhotoFiltre...pretty decent little program. Reminds me a bit of the Paint Shop Pro 3.xx days.

Artweaver and PhotoLine are also pretty good. I'd say Photoline is probably one of the best I've tried in ages.

[clickclack]

mr_a500-

I agree that many things could perhaps be more intuitive than they are in photoshop, however I have been using PS since early 1994. I first used 2.0 I believe I then went directly to 3.0 shortly there after. I hated them at the time as it was a bit of a learning curve but I loved the addition of layers. My computer at the time was so painfully slow though that it was of limited professional use and I still did most things manually until I got a tablet. I used 3.0 with a tablet and I have been using various tablets and cintiqs ever since. I think I breifly used 1.0 on my bosses older system at one point, I just remeber it bieing simple. Over the years I was extreemly happy to use PS and was even more excited when they became more robust, versatile, and we had equally robust and amazing tablets. I was an illustrator for years before I did anything else.

Over the years I have come to love PS, yeah sometimes there is a harsh learning curve with many tasks but honestly having used the following versions for profesional work- 2.0, 3.0, 5.0 tons, 7.0, CS and CS2 tons, CS3, CS4 tons, and a tiny bit with CS5. I think considering the power and comlexity of what they can do using a little bit extra brain juice from time to time is ok. Having used a number of other similar products over the years I can safely say that I truly can't stand most of them. A special note Regarding Gimp: I tried it for a few months before I decided that slitting my wrists was uncomfortable. I gave that program a damn good go and I have hated and regretted few things more.

The more you learn about photoshop the more odd some things seem but most things make much, much more sense and simple without learning specific tasks. I have never regretted the money I have spent on photoshop. I also found out many years ago that the more you learn about raster and vector capabilites the more clear many things become in photoshop. I do consider it a professional tool and as such a siginificant amount of adjustment and learning is probably needed. It needs some serious seat time to manipulate it in all the ways you want. I think its more user friendly now than it ever has been and much, much faster. I think it could be better certainly but I think in general few programs can touch it for usefullness and simplicity. Again though, I have used it to make a living for many years so I am sure that must warp my view. With the intertooobsNwebs being as silly vast as they are now help is usually a search and click away. Hooooray for that! Speeds up that learning curve and lessens painful seat time.

I think I feel the same way about Microsoft Word as you do Photoshop.
 
I am staying with CS4 and Painter 11 for a while though since I like them a good bit and don't have a huge need to switch it up. I just wish other programs were less glitchy compared to PS. Programs and equipment are usually way more capable and useful than we ever give them credit for.

=)

to Rajagra-
I am pretty sure you can do that though, unless you meant while using Gimp.

[Nighted]

I just wish Photoshop wasn't so damn bloated.

[mr_a500]

mr_a500-

I agree that many things could perhaps be more intuitive than they are in photoshop, [...]

I'll try to put more effort into learning the convoluted "Photoshop way of doing things", but that isn't going to help with some of the annoyances. Maybe you can help:

1. Is there a way to have Image Size/Document Size always have "percent" as default instead of "cm"? (I'm always resizing and that bugs the hell out of me)

2. Is there a way to always open images at 100% zoom and adjust windows to fit the image when changed?

3. Is there a way permanently to turn off "jump to grid" when moving objects? (without having to hold down CTRL)

I would like to change the title of this thread (now that my anger has subsided a bit :wink:) to something more like "Why is Photoshop such a pain in the ass?" ...since I already agreed that "crap" was a bit too harsh. :smile:

[clickclack]

for-

1. I change those values too often so I never had to figure out a way to change the default different than what it is (for me it's pixels/inch respectively).
Maybe it would be more useful to select the image and use Edit>Transform>scale that way you get the percentage at the top to noodle with. I doubt that it would be quicker though.

2. I must be dense today since I kinda don't understand this one.

3. Go to view>Snap To>select none.   You should be good to go I think.


Yeah, I think it's more of a PITA than crap sometimes, I think of it like a really stubborn but very bright child. Yeah you can get it impressively to do what you want most of the time, the rest of the time though it's a little snot! LoL

[Hydroid]

I don't know. I've been using photoshop since I was 12 years old and while I did find it complicated at first I've never looked up tutorials and always just done stuff myself with it. I think what did help was that I got into using photoshop through editing car pictures to make them look as though they were tuned up and so there wasn't any urgency in my being able to use the program for the first 3 years. By then I'd figured out enough stuff just by playing around that I could do basics, and to this day I still just play around with things whenever I do something and occasionally discover something new. I agree that it doesn't always seem to do things in the most efficient/logical way possible, but it's a program that has unrivaled power in my experience. (I've used countless other programs on the side as well as trying Gimp, Corel Painter, and an array of other photo manipulation programs out there.) It's like Sony Vegas, Premiere Pro and After Effects they are all very powerful pieces of software, but one heck of an intimidating nightmare to new comers. Even if you are a seasoned professional in one of them using another for the first time really throws you out. I saw this when I switched from Sony Vegas to Premiere Pro earlier on in the year.

[mr_a500]

2. I must be dense today since I kinda don't understand this one.

3. Go to view>Snap To>select none.   You should be good to go I think.

OK, the Snap problem seems to be fixed. One down, 139 to go. :wink:

The #2: when I open large images, they always zoom down (33%) to fit the screen. I usually want to resize the large images by 50%, but then the view is still at 33%, so I have to click three times to get it to 100%, then maximize the window because it hasn't enlarged to fit the image. If I include the annoying percent/cm thing, I will have clicked 5 times (in 3 different places) unnecessarily. If the damn program opened images at 100% by default without zooming - or if the window automatically adjusted to image size, I wouldn't have to click once.

[mr_a500]

I don't know. I've been using photoshop since I was 12 years old

You must be pretty young. When I was 12 years old, Photoshop didn't exist. (Windows didn't exist, Mac didn't exist, a "Photo shop" was a place they developed film... and so on :wink:)

I should confess.

The only keyboard I own is a Dell rubber dome.  All my pics are photoshops.
(Attachment Link) 35825[/ATTACH]

I bet the "RipOmeter" is a complete fabrication and never really existed at all.

[Rajagra]

The #2: when I open large images, they always zoom down (33%) to fit the screen. I usually want to resize the large images by 50%, but then the view is still at 33%, so I have to click three times to get it to 100%, then maximize the window because it hasn't enlarged to fit the image. If I include the annoying percent/cm thing, I will have clicked 5 times (in 3 different places) unnecessarily. If the damn program opened images at 100% by default without zooming - or if the window automatically adjusted to image size, I wouldn't have to click once.

As a workaround, try Control 1 (forces scaling to 100%) or Control 0 (fits image to screen, zooming in/out as necessary.)

[mr_a500]

Peisd

[mr_a500]

As a workaround, try Control 1 (forces scaling to 100%) or Control 0 (fits image to screen, zooming in/out as necessary.)

I tried Control 1, but it does nothing. ("My eyes... the goggles do nothing!")

[Nighted]

You must be pretty young. When I was 12 years old, Photoshop didn't exist. (Windows didn't exist, Mac didn't exist, a "Photo shop" was a place they developed film... and so on :wink:)

lol!

When I was 12 I was learning to program on Apple II's!

[clickclack]

I think I get what you are saying now.
Well depending on your work flow or ease of movements I would try double clicking on the zoom icon in the tool bar. That will bring you instantly to 100%.
I use this quite a bit when I am on the cintiq, it's just faster for my workflow. Mapping zoom to your scrow wheel and/or touch strip is nice too if that is needed.

I just remembered you are using a mac! Raj's "control 1" should be "command 1" I think.
I use PC's mainly now so I don't remember all the Mac equivalents. try the command key instead.

=)

[Hydroid]

You must be pretty young. When I was 12 years old, Photoshop didn't exist. (Windows didn't exist, Mac didn't exist, a "Photo shop" was a place they developed film... and so on :wink:)

Yeah I'm pretty young compared to a lot of you here. ^^ I should say I started using it 7 years ago. But I have put a couple thousand hours into using Photoshop so I feel as though I know my way around at the moment, I'm just lacking in artistic talent to create good looking stuff.

[cactux]

I use Gimp in OSX and Linux boxes

[laffindude]

I'll give a very simple example. Say I want to draw a circle. On other programs I've used, I select the circle icon, pick the brush thickness (or just use the current brush), make the circle and it draws it on its own layer in the current colour (resizeable, movable). Now here's what you have to do in Photoshop (from the CS3 help):

    In the Layers palette, click the New Layer button  to create a new layer for the circle or square. Isolating the circle or square on its own layer makes it easier to work with.
    Select the Elliptical Marquee tool  or the Rectangular Marquee tool  in the toolbox.
    Drag in the document window to create the shape. Hold down the Shift key while dragging to constrain the shape to a circle or square.
    Choose Edit > Stroke.
    In the Stroke dialog box, type a value for Width, and then click the color swatch to display the Adobe Color Picker.
    In the Adobe Color Picker, locate the color range you want using the triangle sliders on the color spectrum bar, and then click the desired color in the color field. The color you select appears in the top half of the color swatch. The original color remains in the bottom half. Click OK.
    Set the location for the stroke in relationship to the marquee by choosing Inside, Center, or Outside. Adjust the other settings as desired, and click OK. Photoshop strokes the line using the color and stroke settings you set.

Yeah... that's intuitive. Who knew you used the marquee tool - which is for cutting - to draw a circle? Why would I have to select a menu item, then type a number? What if I wanted to draw it using the current brush? Why is it not resizeable? Why can't I change its properties after it's created?

I've got many more examples.

Another thing, why does Photoshop make so much use of right-click for context when Macs by default have a bloody one button mouse?

That is just example of what I talked about. Quirks of that particular person. You can select a round brush and set to the size/size of circle you want, paint 1x and you got a circle. You can draw a circle with shape tool. There is no reason to do it his way if it is not intuitive to you.

Marquee is not just for cutting. Marquee is for selecting the area you want to manipulate.

[Lanx]

i heard the mac version of photoshop has horrible menu controls as opposed to windows, idk i've only used windows and was able to navigate fine, years ago.

[fireball87]

i heard the mac version of photoshop has horrible menu controls as opposed to windows, idk i've only used windows and was able to navigate fine, years ago.

I don't really see how, I couldn't really tell the difference, one was laid out like mac menus, one was laid out like windows menus, but the contents seemed to be the same.  Better for the mac side is "help menu search", which helps a lot in finding certain things that I know the name of, but don't know the location for.