Author Topic: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward  (Read 11494 times)

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Offline dorkvader

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #120 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 19:04:08 »
It's much longer for those of us, like me, that still need to learn to touch type properly.
| Unicomp (BS) | WASD V1 (Brown) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Red) | Olivetti (RD) | WYSE 50 (Black) | WYSE 30 (Black) | Two * Access-IS 6x12 (Black) | Cherry G84-4101 SPAUS (ML) | WYSE PCE 840358 (Black) | IBM 6110668 31 JAN '84 | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | NIB Cherry G80-8113 (Browns) | IBM Model F XT | 2* TG3 BL82 (Black) | Siig Minitouch (Monterey) | Cherry G80-8113 (browns) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | | CMstorm QF Rapid (Green)

Offline Lanx

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #121 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 20:22:50 »
that's true, matrix layout forces proper typing, or at least the correct usage of where fingers should go and press.

Offline Quarzac

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #122 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 20:39:40 »
Ooh, am I next on the list? I forgot all about this, since I signed up four months ago. Sweet!
Got a smaller board with white ALPS, Montereys, Cherry Blues, Reds, or Clears you'd like to offload?  Shoot me a PM. Looking for a grey Leopold FC700R in particular.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline dorkvader

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #123 on: Tue, 22 May 2012, 22:34:19 »
I need to mail the user manual to either 500_Pts or Quarzac, depending on whoever is living in the USA.
| Unicomp (BS) | WASD V1 (Brown) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Red) | Olivetti (RD) | WYSE 50 (Black) | WYSE 30 (Black) | Two * Access-IS 6x12 (Black) | Cherry G84-4101 SPAUS (ML) | WYSE PCE 840358 (Black) | IBM 6110668 31 JAN '84 | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | NIB Cherry G80-8113 (Browns) | IBM Model F XT | 2* TG3 BL82 (Black) | Siig Minitouch (Monterey) | Cherry G80-8113 (browns) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | | CMstorm QF Rapid (Green)

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #124 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 15:41:59 »
Quote from: Zanth;597631
I could see myself enjoying a TE because of its form factor along with the mechanic keys and the lack of muscle memory required to change over.


Obviously YMMV but I actually found that the Advantage was easier to get used to than the TE. Form factor isn't an issue for me, but I like having shift, tab, slash, etc. in their usual places. Moving keys around that are less commonly used than the strictly alphabetical keys didn't work out so well for me because of how much I live in the command line. I use keys like slash, pipe, tab, and tilde a LOT so I appreciated that they were in their normal positions on the Advantage. These keys are used infrequently enough that I don't imagine much benefit from making them more (purportedly) ergonomic, but for me frequent enough that moving them around so drastically is really frustrating. A lot of people have also echoed that swapping Ctrl and swap with the TE has been very helpful, which is another example of how their funny placement can be off-putting. Plus there is also the fact that the TE isn't well-supported, which for me initially wasn't an issue, and they handled replacement of my TE that had blues very well, but now that I've used it for a while and I'm seeing more problems I can't get through to them.

TLDR having tried both and currently living with a TE, I'd recommend the Advantage over the TE more or less unanimously unless form factor is a real issue. Just wish they sold blues :/

The ergo sub-forum is probably not the best place to express this view, but I've also started to become of the opinion that ergonomic devices are only really worth it if you have or are starting to see RSI/CTS/etc. Given my disappointment with the TE and the high price of the Advantage (or even ErgoDox) I'm probably going to settle on something like a Filco Tenkeyless (or maybe a FreeStyle, although the inclination attachments are just too expensive) until I start to feel I need an ergonomic keyboard.

Offline Lanx

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #125 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 15:46:10 »
Quote from: heuristicist;598618
The ergo sub-forum is probably not the best place to express this view, but I've also started to become of the opinion that ergonomic devices are only really worth it if you have or are starting to see RSI/CTS/etc. Given my disappointment with the TE and the high price of the Advantage (or even ErgoDox) I'm probably going to settle on something like a Filco Tenkeyless (or maybe a FreeStyle, although the inclination attachments are just too expensive) until I start to feel I need an ergonomic keyboard.

do you believe you can go back to a staggered layout? coming from a matrix one of both the TE or the Kinesis? I mean i can goto a staggered no problem, if it's my netbook/notebook, cuz those are just travel books, but i wouldn't want it to be my daily driver, my fingers are now used to not being contorted lol, cuz if you think about it, your fingers have to do some gymnastics in order to reach some of the keys, even with "proper" touch typing skills.

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #126 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:35:53 »
Quote from: Lanx;598624
do you believe you can go back to a staggered layout? coming from a matrix one of both the TE or the Kinesis? I mean i can goto a staggered no problem, if it's my netbook/notebook, cuz those are just travel books, but i wouldn't want it to be my daily driver, my fingers are now used to not being contorted lol, cuz if you think about it, your fingers have to do some gymnastics in order to reach some of the keys, even with "proper" touch typing skills.

I generally prefer the feel of the TE but I prefer the layout of my laptop right now. It's far more familiar. Keep in mind that I'm fighting ~15 years of muscle memory on a matrix layout. And while it's true that you might have to do some funny stretches on a staggered layout, the matrix layout (at least how it is on the TE) has its own disadvantages. For example, because I type pretty quickly, typing the "in" bigram means pressing the two keys next-to-simultaneously, which is an annoying stretch on the TE. Plus using my pinkies for Q and P is still tricky. I think my pinkies might be smaller than average or something but I really prefer using my ring finger for those keys, even on the TE, although less so on the Advantage.

Maybe because I started becoming a heavy keyboard user when I was relatively young (10ish), my fingers have grown into a shape more suited for staggered layouts :p
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:41:35 by heuristicist »

Offline Lanx

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #127 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:41:53 »
idk, i learned "proper" typing at 8 or so and only in the last year have used matrix, i think you should have given the kinesis more of a test run, sounds like the bowl, keywell shape would be better than the column stagger that the TE provides.

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #128 on: Wed, 23 May 2012, 16:58:45 »
Quote from: Lanx;598654
idk, i learned "proper" typing at 8 or so and only in the last year have used matrix, i think you should have given the kinesis more of a test run, sounds like the bowl, keywell shape would be better than the column stagger that the TE provides.

Not saying it isn't, only that it may not be worth the money unless you are specifically feeling pain that would be fixed by it, which AFAICT I'm not. I also know someone who had RSI issues and then started using Dvorak on an Advantage. Now she's ditched the Advantage and just uses her laptop with Dvorak and has no problems, so Dvorak would be the cheaper alternative to paying $300 for an ergonomic keyboard.

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #129 on: Thu, 24 May 2012, 01:34:56 »
Quote from: Quarzac;598004
Ooh, am I next on the list? I forgot all about this, since I signed up four months ago. Sweet!

Zanth said in this post that he got the contact info from 500_pts, so your turn comes right after that.

Hey Zanth, please PM me the tracking number once you ship it, thanks!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline boli

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #130 on: Wed, 30 May 2012, 02:42:45 »
Quote from: Zanth;597631
Without a command key, I found the Advantage quite limited and limiting.  I'd say in all fairness that I was not able to give it all that it deserved in terms of my effort.  Yet, the trial was super informative and exactly what I needed.  My next move will be to acquire a TE for a time and if it sticks, I'll stick with it.  The Advantage will be an experiment later on and one that I will commit to but it is a lot to throw down and a lot of work to retrain.

Maybe I'm missing something here but the Advantage I have has two Command keys when in Mac mode. On the picture in the first post both Ctrl become Command in Mac mode, and right Alt becomes Ctrl (IIRC).
And of course you can remap all of them to your heart's content. For an example check out my sig: I wanted 2 Option (Alt) keys and a Ctrl key on the left, so I did make it so.

On a side note despite the TE's more "normal" physical layout, the extra keys they moved around resulted in a steeper learning curve than the Advantage in my (and a coworker's) opinion.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 May 2012, 02:45:56 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline natas206

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #131 on: Wed, 30 May 2012, 14:45:52 »
Quote from: boli;603662
Maybe I'm missing something here but the Advantage I have has two Command keys when in Mac mode. On the picture in the first post both Ctrl become Command in Mac mode, and right Alt becomes Ctrl (IIRC).

Default Mac Mode:

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 04 June 2012, 22:12:03 »
Hey Zanth / 500_pts, where is the keyboard at? I did not receive any tracking number and didn't see any post saying the keyboard was sent or received. Please update ASAP.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline treigle

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #133 on: Thu, 07 June 2012, 00:57:05 »
Quote from: boli;603662
On a side note despite the TE's more "normal" physical layout, the extra keys they moved around resulted in a steeper learning curve than the Advantage in my (and a coworker's) opinion.

After a few months with both (which I received a day apart), I definitely have to agree. Not only is there a steeper learning curve with the TE, but it's just a little easier to switch back and forth between a "standard" keyboard and a Kinesis than with a TE.
Kinesis Advantage, Truly Ergonomic (ANSI), Filco 87

Offline sordna

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #134 on: Fri, 08 June 2012, 18:39:02 »
Ok, Zanth sent me a tracking number, thanks! 500_pts should receive the keyboard on Monday.

Please update us once you get it, 500_pts!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline heuristicist

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Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #135 on: Sun, 10 June 2012, 22:42:35 »
Quote from: boli;603662
On a side note despite the TE's more "normal" physical layout, the extra keys they moved around resulted in a steeper learning curve than the Advantage in my (and a coworker's) opinion.


My experience echoes this.

Offline jblack801

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #136 on: Wed, 25 July 2012, 13:43:33 »
How's this coming along since geekhack has been restored? Any review from 500_pts?

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #137 on: Wed, 25 July 2012, 21:54:24 »
I still have the manual, and still want to send it to, the person (or the next person) with the keyboard. I don't know about 500_PTS, though. I hope he's still around.
| Unicomp (BS) | WASD V1 (Brown) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Red) | Olivetti (RD) | WYSE 50 (Black) | WYSE 30 (Black) | Two * Access-IS 6x12 (Black) | Cherry G84-4101 SPAUS (ML) | WYSE PCE 840358 (Black) | IBM 6110668 31 JAN '84 | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | NIB Cherry G80-8113 (Browns) | IBM Model F XT | 2* TG3 BL82 (Black) | Siig Minitouch (Monterey) | Cherry G80-8113 (browns) | CMstorm QF Rapid (Blue) | | CMstorm QF Rapid (Green)

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #138 on: Thu, 26 July 2012, 00:50:04 »
500_pts is still around, we exchanged PMs. He said he loved the keyboard and is ready to ship it to the next person.
I do hope he will write a small review soon.
The next person is supposed to be Quarzac, is Quarzac around? If you are, can you please PM 500_pts with your address?
Please post here too, to let us know if you are still around & interested, or if we should send the keyboard to the next person on the list.
Thanks!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Quarzac

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #139 on: Mon, 06 August 2012, 11:02:07 »
I'm around, but I'm gonna have to delay my shift with the board, as it would currently overlap a move across the country. So let's bump me down the list a person or two and keep things trucking. Sorry for holding things up.
Got a smaller board with white ALPS, Montereys, Cherry Blues, Reds, or Clears you'd like to offload?  Shoot me a PM. Looking for a grey Leopold FC700R in particular.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 07 August 2012, 11:53:35 »
I'm still around and interested (just in case slueth has dropped off, I haven't seen any posts from him recently).

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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #141 on: Wed, 08 August 2012, 01:49:46 »
Slueth / Daniel Beaver,
please contact 500_pts directly. If Slueth doesn't make arrangements till Friday, then you should get it next Daniel Beaver.

I'll put Quarzac after you two on the list.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline shrap

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #142 on: Wed, 08 August 2012, 23:23:16 »
Awesome this thread is still going! Only six more months till I might be next!

Offline Trent

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #143 on: Sun, 19 August 2012, 00:03:30 »
I am interested if sign ups are still available.
IBM Model M | IBM Model M SSK | FK-2000 | FK-8000 | FK-9000 | Fujitsu Peerless | Zenith Data Systems (Yellow ALPS!) | AEK

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #144 on: Sun, 19 August 2012, 18:20:15 »
Ok, replaced dante with Trent in the list.

Hope 500_pts sends the board to slueth soon, slueth told me he PM'd his address to 500_pts.
Also 500_pts, please make sure to post your thoughts/experience with this keyboard, that is a requirement for all participants :-)
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #145 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 00:39:20 »
Any update folks? I'm starting to get worried for the first time regarding this effort.

Where is 500_pts and Slueth ? Where is the keyboard ?

Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline slueth

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #146 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 19:33:30 »
I sent my address to him, he hasn't responded or sent me the keyboard :/

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #147 on: Sat, 15 September 2012, 20:40:51 »
Do you have his email address, maybe you can try to contact him that way.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline slueth

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #148 on: Mon, 01 October 2012, 16:54:10 »
Sorry don't have his email.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Contoured Try & Forward
« Reply #149 on: Mon, 01 October 2012, 20:35:32 »
Zanth, how about you, since you sent the keyboard to 500_pts you must have his contact info. I never expected 500_pts to disappear with my keyboard like this :-(
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard