Author Topic: Truly Ergonomic Question  (Read 2971 times)

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Offline Modi

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 16:02:37 »
I've been using a Microsoft Natural Keyboard Elite for years (late 1990's) for PC gaming. I'd replace the keyboard for a new one as I wore out the previous one.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty disappointed with the lousy quality of the keys especially for gaming with the most recent keyboard. It seems like the quality has become pretty bad for gaming.
The keys are so mushy and it feels like I need to tap a key more than once for it to register.

I have such little desire to go back to a standard keyboard layout after 14 years on an ergonomic keyboard..it would be so frustrating to rewire my brain so to speak.

I'd like to give the Truly Ergonomic a try.

What do the Geek Hack people think about getting a Truly Ergonomic keyoard to game on for games such as WoW?
And cherry red or the cherry browns?

I'd appreciate the advice or tips.

Thanks!

Modi

Offline obra

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 16:34:37 »
Well, first it has to actually go on sale..

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 16:58:32 »
Give it a whirl, I think you'll be surprised at how much the key feel matters. Though I haven't tried one yet, I think the layout would probably work quite well for video games. You can always sell it here afterwards.

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Offline Rajagra

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 17:25:39 »
When I played WoW, I had every usable key on a 105 key keyboard mapped to an action. The T.E. has fewer keys, so would have been a problem for me.
Apart from that, it would be great. Most people don't bother with so many bindings so it wouldn't be an issue.

Offline Modi

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 18:08:24 »
Would you recommend red or brown keys for the board for WoW?

Offline Architect

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 18:50:31 »
Don't know about gaming, other than a little Portal 2 I'm not much into it. For programming and general typing I think TE is the killer keyboard.

You might look at XKeys, I've got several of these for speciality purposes, and they've been used for WoW

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 37525[/ATTACH]
TECK 209 Blank Keys; Leopold Number Pad; X-Keys Professional; X-Keys 84.

Online dorkvader

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 14 January 2012, 19:21:33 »
Quote from: Architect;490551
Don't know about gaming, other than a little Portal 2 I'm not much into it. For programming and general typing I think TE is the killer keyboard.

You might look at XKeys, I've got several of these for speciality purposes, and they've been used for WoW
Access IS!

I'm sure to try mine with gaming sometime.
let me put together your keyboard! Special offer, $10 to assemble an "inifity" keyboard.
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Offline Columnaire

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 15 January 2012, 13:51:58 »
I have to agree with Architect. Having used this TE keyboard for over a month now, it is plainly the best keyboard I've ever used. It is the ideal compromise of maintaining the familiarity of traditional keyboards, and changing the worst aspects of traditional keyboards.

I also am not a gamer, but the manufacturer recommends Red keyswitches for gamers, because they have a smooth action, or something like that. I bought the clacky style switches, but if I get a second TE then I will probably get the silent switches.

Offline Rajagra

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 15 January 2012, 14:32:08 »
Another point on gaming... For years I've used a Nostromo N50/N52/N52te for gaming because it's so comfortable - no messing about with silly staggered rows.
Now I have the TE keyboard, the Nostromo is pretty redundant. The TE has an even more comfortable layout, and more keys in reach.
(It lacks built-in macros, obviously.)

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #9 on: Sun, 15 January 2012, 21:52:33 »
you forget about the d-pad of the nostromo, really awesome for gaming (i don't use it to move i use it for quickswitch or whatever)

Offline boli

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:35:16 »
The TE should be fine for games.

I play games using my Kinesis no problem, have played WoW on it for years, now I'm more into StarCraft 2 and Skyrim. The TE defaults to the same switches as the Kinesis (brown), which should work fine. Last year I switched to cherry reds: bought a full LF (red) Kinesis as well as red key wells to convert a brown Kinesis. Sadly I forgot to convert the TE I had on order to red switches, so I have one with browns. The difference is small but noticeable, but either should work fine for games. At work I use the Kinesis with reds for programming, which works well too, so personally I'd get red switches no matter what you do, but that's just my preference. As others mentioned TE recommends reds for gaming only.

About gaming on split keyboards: with any split keyboard you will want to avoid having to use keys on the right half of the keyboard, because they're so far away. So in WoW I had to make do with just the left side. I ended up with three layers of a key grid 5 keys wide and 4 keys high, the top layer (no modifier), the second layer with Ctrl pressed, and the third layer with Alt pressed. On the Kinesis Ctrl and Alt are easily reached with the thumb, on the TE you might be comfortable hitting Ctrl with your pinky - personally I'm a thumb-modifier person and would want to remap the left space key to some modifier (probably Command/Ctrl). Anyway, on the TE I'd probably have used Shift as modifier for the third layer.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 January 2012, 02:46:53 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Modi

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 10:52:26 »
I appreciate the feedback and help so far. Thanks!

One thing I was looking for but did not see in the TE pictures was adjustable feet on the back of the keyboard to raise or lower it for comfort. I always have my keyboards raised up with the back feet. Does the TE have these adjustable feet?

Not having built in macros for the TE doesn't bother me much, I have all my WoW commands keybound on the left hand side of the board and other things that I need are bound to my mouse.

I have a Steelseries Merc Stealth that has the gamepad too, kind of like the Nostromo in a way, but could not get into it, but that is just me being so wired to an ergonomic board and being a bit set in my ways. Typing on that felt quite cramped with the way the keys were laid out.

Offline Architect

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 16 January 2012, 11:03:59 »
Quote from: Modi;491701
I appreciate the feedback and help so far. Thanks!

One thing I was looking for but did not see in the TE pictures was adjustable feet on the back of the keyboard to raise or lower it for comfort. I always have my keyboards raised up with the back feet. Does the TE have these adjustable feet?

Nope

Quote
Not having built in macros for the TE doesn't bother me much, I have all my WoW commands keybound on the left hand side of the board and other things that I need are bound to my mouse.

I prefer macros on the OS anyhow, much more functionality that way (scripting). Also we don't know what the programmability will entail. They could make it just an key code upload, or it could be where you can supply some code or series of key codes. Regardless an enterprising person could upload entirely new firmware. My guess is it'll support full macros.

I'm pretty freaking happy with this keyboard, though the Shift/Command swap is STILL troubling me ...
TECK 209 Blank Keys; Leopold Number Pad; X-Keys Professional; X-Keys 84.

Online sordna

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 18 January 2012, 17:07:19 »
Quote from: Architect;491717
I'm pretty freaking happy with this keyboard, though the Shift/Command swap is STILL troubling me ...

They should have put Control next to A (just like tons of people do, ie unix layout) and left the Shift alone, next to Z.

What they did was a big mistake IMO, or at least they should have a dip setting to choose the Shift position.

Anaway, do the Shift and Control keys have the same profile (so they can be swapped ?) That's something I would do, provided I could remap them.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Rajagra

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 18 January 2012, 17:16:32 »
I love the Shifts where they've put them (at least when I'm not moving between boards!)
But I'm beginning to think Alt should be between Shift and Ctrl, for safety reasons.
The 3 keys seem to be the same shape (on the '105' key version.
Fingers crossed for the reprogramming software.

Offline Architect

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 18 January 2012, 17:56:59 »
Quote from: sordna;493604
They should have put Control next to A (just like tons of people do, ie unix layout) and left the Shift alone, next to Z.

What they did was a big mistake IMO, or at least they should have a dip setting to choose the Shift position.

Anaway, do the Shift and Control keys have the same profile (so they can be swapped ?) That's something I would do, provided I could remap them.

Agreed - the shift key drives me farking nuts. However ... if I really cared ControllerMate would happily map it for me.

On the other hand, while I'm not sure I agree with their idea that the Shift is so important (more important than Control/Command?) that it needs to be moved, I do think it was a logical thing that makes sense. For example, frequently in OS X you have multiple modifiers going on at once - Option/Command, or Control/Option etc, and having the three together (or even just the two together in the stock configuration) is much easier on the hands - if the shift and and control/command were swapped I wouldn't be able to do those combinations. Compared to the thumbers with the Kinesis it's a bit of a stretch to make it to those control keys in the corner.

Overall I'm moving my hand around quite a bit more compared to say, the Kinesis. Up an inch to reach the Function keys, down and inch to reach the arrow keys, upper left diagonal to bring the thumb to the backspace, and diagonal lower right an inch to reach the modifier keys. I see that as an advantage actually, ergonomically the piano (I play it) beats the computer keyboard because of the greater degree of motion. The problem with computer keyboards isn't that we move too much, it's that we move our hands too little. At any rate the small moves I'm talking about here are peanuts and probably don't contribute much ergonomically. With the piano you're really waving the hands around.

It does lead to some fast typing though.
TECK 209 Blank Keys; Leopold Number Pad; X-Keys Professional; X-Keys 84.

Offline keyth

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 19 January 2012, 11:12:49 »
They just became available again this morning on trulyergonomic.com.  Pricing seems to be $229 for MX brown or blue, $249 for red.

Offline Modi

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 24 January 2012, 13:08:50 »
I sent an e-mail to Truly Ergonomic asking why they would design a keyboard that doesn't have any adjustable back feet so you can raise or lower the angle like you can on most of the keyboards in the market. I got the reply: "Thank you for your interest in the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. We believe our product is an excellent investment in your personal health and comfort, and can serve to increase your typing efficiency.

We have received your e-mail and are grateful that you have contacted us; however, due to the amount of inquiries and the level of detail of such inquiries we are currently receiving, it could take us some time to respond to you personally."

Disappointed because my question was an honest one as to why. I still want to purchase one but you'd think for $229 for MX browns and $249 for MX reds, you'd at least be able to have adjustable back feet.

Online sordna

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 24 January 2012, 13:24:37 »
Actually, raising the back of the keyboard is bad for your hands, as it causes your wrists to bend upwards which seriously compresses the nerve canals. In fact, some recent adjustable keyboard trays do not tilt in the traditional way, they only have negative tilt (to raise the front edge of the keyboard) so the bottom key row is elevated higher than the number row. When you type you gotta keep your wrists as straight as possible to avoid problems. You should be able to put a ruler along your first knuckles / top of the wrist / middle of the forearm with minimal gaps, to give you an idea.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline boli

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 24 January 2012, 13:46:43 »
What sordna said. Also don't expect a reply to your query, ever, and you won't be disappointed. I had an honest query myself about a year ago and got the same reply, and nothing since.
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com

Offline Modi

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 24 January 2012, 14:19:21 »
Its always been comfortable to me to have the back feet up on my MS Natural Keyboard Elite, but I guess it would take getting used to.

What would you guys recommend then for the switches? Browns or reds? Keep in mind I'd be using the keyboard for WoW and spamming the 1-6 keys. I'd maaaaybbee play some Black Ops once and a great while on it. The games I'm currently into are WoW, Diablo 3 (whenever that is), SCII, Batman Arkham City, and Civ 5.

Offline boli

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Truly Ergonomic Question
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 02:15:47 »
Like I said on page 1, I love red switches on the Kinesis, and I guess they'd be nice on a TE as well. If you don't have a chance to try them out I guess brows are default for a reason (though it could be price, and they do recommend reds for gaming).
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 January 2012, 02:17:52 by boli »
Keyboard: Kinesis Ergo Advantage (two LF editions with red Cherry switches, one regular with brown switches)
Keyboard layout: basically Colemak, with some remapping to end up with my custom Kinesis Advantage layout
Typing test profiles: typeracer.com / hi-games.net / keybr.com