Author Topic: Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?  (Read 2618 times)

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Offline Reason

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Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« on: Thu, 23 February 2012, 12:03:27 »
Hi guys

I'm trying to decide between Topre Realforce 103UB All 55g Weighted version and the 87U Tenkeyless All 45g Weighted version
I was wondering if the weight difference between the two was significant? like can you tell a big difference between the two??
and also what are the weights like compared to other keyboards such as IBM Model Ms / Cherry Black / Blue / Brown...

I have a IBM Model M at home and I love it when I'm typing on it but it just feels too heavy and my fingers get real tired when
I'm rapidly pressing keys on it.. so I stopped using it after a while and it's been it my drawer since. I heard few people here say
55g are heavier than Model Ms? Is that true???


and another thing... Why do 87U Tenkeyless models cost $80 more than the 103UB models on EK???
on Korean sites such as Leopold and IOMania, the tenkeyless models only cost 30000 more Won!!! (which is about 27 dollars)

Do you think it's justifiable to spend $80 more for tenkeyless and 45g??

Offline skartt

  • Posts: 60
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 17:33:37 »
Hi,

After testing all MX Cherry variations, i knew that brown/red are my personal favorites among MX.

Thus it was easy for me to decide to buy a Topre all 45grf. I was not dissapointed. I absolutely love it for typing, however after some months of gaming i found something that bothered me slightly:
Some of the keys travel distance to the point of actuation is very short. This doesnt bother me for work, but in games i sometimes activate something by accident. Especially in games in which my fingers permanently rest on the keys (moba/dota) i found that annoying.

So, well, now i bought an all 55grf Topre, telling myself that it is perfectly reasonable to waste that amount of money for a second Topre...

Unfortunately i could not test it yet, so cannot tell you anything more.

Offline Autolyze

  • Posts: 337
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 20:42:55 »
They feel far more like each other than they feel like any other type of switch, but I'd say that the difference in weighting is fairly signifcant. The 45g is kind of like a cross between MX brown and MX red, while the 55g is more like a cross between MX brown and MX black... Or maybe MX clear and MX red. In general they're smoother and poppier feeling than MX boards (or BS), with the 45g leaning more towards the smooth-side of things and the 55g leaning towards the poppy side, if that makes sense.

I used nickles to see roughly what it took to actuate the switches on my boards a couple days ago, and my 45g seemed to require about 50g, while the 55g was measuring at 60g. The 55g doesn't feel quite as heavy as typing on a Model M, but if a Model M was wearing your fingers out, I advise springing for the 45g. Despite the fact that the 55g technically takes about as much force to actuate as MX blues do, I would say that in practice it's closer to MX clears and buckling springs in terms of requiring finger muscle.
Das MX Brown | Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown | Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue | Realforce 87UB 45g | Leopold Tenkeyless MX Red | Leopold Tenkeyless MX Clear | IBM SSK Grey Label | KBC Poker X MX Black/Red | Realforce 87UW 55g | Siig MiniTouch White XM | Honeywell Keypad Hall Effect | Ducky 1087 Green XM | KBC Poker X MX Ghetto Green/Blue | Siig MiniTouch Monterey Blue| IBM SSK Grey Label #2 | Cherry G80-2551 MX Black

Offline Namkung

  • Posts: 252
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 20:53:07 »
hey you grandmaster zerg @_@.
the difference between 45g and 55g is very very noticeable .
get the 55g and save yourself some money. also it's much better for playing sc2 =p
* Proud winner of the first GH SC2 tournament *
REALFORCE 87UB 55g
REALFORCE 87UW 45g

Offline Surly73

  • Posts: 496
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 21:01:12 »
The difference is more than just weight.  (I feel like I've told this story so often I'm surprised it doesn't pop up when people search)

I had a Realforce 55g last spring that I gave a lengthy test drive (4-6 weeks at work).  I loved the feel, but I never felt oneness with cup rubber on that board.  My typing didn't flow, my fingers never stopped stabbing at the keys (at least compared to how they flow on a board with browns), and my finger tips developed a sort of fatigue from what I found to be a buzzy bottom out from Topre switches.  I ended up selling it, but liked a lot of things about the Realforce switch.  I went back to the model M I had been using for some time, so it's not just that I'm too wimpy for 55g.

This spring I've been using an 86U with variable weight keys.  Most of the keys are 45g so although it's not a fixed 45g board I think I can speak to the quality of 45g switches.  I still feel the same characteristics of the Realforce switch (including the buzzy bottom out) and agree with what Autolyze said above.  You can definitely tell they're brothers.  Unlike with the 55g my muscle memory has trained fairly well with the variable force board and I'm really enjoying it.  I'm not 100% sure if I'm going to end up with a Realforce or Cherry board in the end but the variable experience is quite different to me than the 55g Realforce.

Offline cmh

  • Posts: 48
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 28 March 2012, 21:17:24 »
Coming from my favorite cherry switch MX Browns, I went for the Realforce 45g for general typing/SC2 and was instantly comfortable (especially with the tactile feedback) when I switched to the 87u 45g from a Filco Tenkeyless.  I can't speak for the 55g but personally decided to go with the 46g weighted version because of how much I loved MX Browns and didn't care for the  MX Black switches.  I'm sure whatever you choose you'll love!
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 March 2012, 21:53:43 by cmh »
Leopold FC700r (MX reds) | Realforce 87u 45g | Filco MJ2 Metallic Blue (MX Brown) | Filco MJ2 Tenkeyless (MX Red/Brown/Blue) | Ducky Shine II Tenkeyless  White LED (MX Red) | CM Storm QFR (MX Red)

Offline flac.head

  • Posts: 18
  • Location: Northern Ireland
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 29 March 2012, 22:08:34 »
Quote from: skartt;559664

Thus it was easy for me to decide to buy a Topre all 45grf. I was not dissapointed. I absolutely love it for typing, however after some months of gaming i found something that bothered me slightly:
Some of the keys travel distance to the point of actuation is very short. This doesnt bother me for work, but in games i sometimes activate something by accident. Especially in games in which my fingers permanently rest on the keys (moba/dota) i found that annoying.


Ditto. But for the expense of another board i'm going to learn not to lean so heavy. I'm hoping a wrist rest might help.

Offline Trueepower

  • Posts: 147
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 30 March 2012, 23:09:09 »
The 45g is comparable to a red switch board, but I would say better, just because of the weight being at the top. 55g is a light version of black switch, and I would say much lighter. The feeling with the weight being that top of the switch compared to a cherry board is a huge difference. It's just a matter of preference. More people will probably favor the 45g, and I would say that is the safer bet for the one you would probably like. Whether the tenkeyless is really worth it or not, is really just a matter of opinion. I prefer the tenkeyless for the additional space (and I never use the numeral pad on keyboards). The price difference is crazy though, I will agree with that.

Once you start getting into Topre though, you can forget about saving money. The keys are very expensive to buy as well $110 a set on EK. But, if you love Topre its all worth it. Again, I would say 45g is the safe bet for most people. I prefer my 55g though over the 45g. But, on occasion love the 45g for certain games, and for typing its a nice/comfortable change. The difference of the two is VERY noticeable, the bounce back on the 55g domes is much stronger as well.
Topre Realforce 87ub 55g Topre Realforce 87ub 45g
Luxeed MK5

Online Reptile

  • Posts: 1163
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 30 March 2012, 23:26:32 »
I have a 55g 87u and a 30g 104u. 55gram is awesome for gaming as well as a great overall feel. MX blacks aren't even remotely close; feel way heavier to me. The 30g I plan on using at work but I am waiting on a new camera lens to get here so I can take some sexy pics before I take it there lol. I used the 30gram for a couple days and couldn't use it for a home keyboard obviously it was too light. I have never tried a 45g board but I really want to.

Also the nice topre thock and feedback definitely decrease when you reduce the weight of the switches. I look at it as they chose 45g for HHKB because it is a middle of the pack switch for topre.
Home:Realforce 87UB 55g
Work:Leopold FC700R Ergo Clears

Offline daerid

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Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 31 March 2012, 03:42:07 »
I've got a 45g 87U, and while the KB is absolutely fan-f**king-tastic, I must admit that I'm very interested in the 55g, as I have big hands and tend to bottom out like mad on this 45g.

White RealForce 87U 55g | FC660C Dye Sub | CODE Clears 104 | White Poker II Blues
Previous boards: RealForce 55g 87UB | RealForce 45g 87UB | HHKB 2 PRO | Leopold FC660C | Filco MJ2 87 (Browns and Blacks) | CM QFR (Blues and Reds) | Filco MJ2  Linear-R | Poker (Reds, Browns, Blacks, Ergo Clears) | Dell AT101W | Matias TP3
Other:  Zowie EC1 CL | DeathAdder 2013 | MS-3 | Rival | Taipan | Sensei | G400 | IE 3.0 | RAT 7 | Kinzu 2 | Perf MX | Imperator | SS Cata | G500 | Apple Magic Mouse | Kensington Slimblade

SmallFry, 1996-2013. 'Till next time, homie.
I write code for Stack Exchange. Please buy some of my crap.

Offline Surly73

  • Posts: 496
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 31 March 2012, 08:21:31 »
Quote from: daerid;562400
I've got a 45g 87U, and while the KB is absolutely fan-f**king-tastic, I must admit that I'm very interested in the 55g, as I have big hands and tend to bottom out like mad on this 45g.

You'll still bottom out on the 55g.  Topres are rubber domes, and the domes break away giving you the tactile pop which feels so great.  On the 55g you have to press even harder to overcome the pop, and then there's very low resistance again until the bottom out.  IMO, if you want to avoid bottoming out you need less poppy switches, not ones with heavier pop.

Recall that Topre switches are springs plus domes, but the springs are a very minor part of the equation (5g or something, if I recall from ripster's findings).  Domes by their nature break away once you apply enough force to overcome the shape.

Plus - who cares if you bottom out?  Are you fast and comfortable.  If yes, your job is done.  Everyone here is so concerned about bottoming out and afraid they aren't cool enough if they do.

Offline daerid

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Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 01 April 2012, 04:50:31 »
I picked up my QFR Red Cherry today and was on it for a while. I must say that I've grown terribly accustomed to the Topre feel. It's difficult to go back.

White RealForce 87U 55g | FC660C Dye Sub | CODE Clears 104 | White Poker II Blues
Previous boards: RealForce 55g 87UB | RealForce 45g 87UB | HHKB 2 PRO | Leopold FC660C | Filco MJ2 87 (Browns and Blacks) | CM QFR (Blues and Reds) | Filco MJ2  Linear-R | Poker (Reds, Browns, Blacks, Ergo Clears) | Dell AT101W | Matias TP3
Other:  Zowie EC1 CL | DeathAdder 2013 | MS-3 | Rival | Taipan | Sensei | G400 | IE 3.0 | RAT 7 | Kinzu 2 | Perf MX | Imperator | SS Cata | G500 | Apple Magic Mouse | Kensington Slimblade

SmallFry, 1996-2013. 'Till next time, homie.
I write code for Stack Exchange. Please buy some of my crap.

Offline meathook

  • Posts: 2
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 03 April 2012, 05:48:51 »
I'm looking into getting either a topre 55g or 45 uniform KB for gaming, fps (tf2) and sc2.  I've read elsewhere that in the few cases, pro tf2, quake and sc2 players go the 55g uniform route.  A main concern of mine is to have the ability to repeatedly press the same two keys to strafe extremely quickly for example (a and d), the speed of the keys popping back up after I actuate them is important.  Does the 45g topre switch travel back towards my fingers at a significantly slower speed than the 55g topre switch during feedback since it is lighter?  Could a lighter switch be (usually?) actuated quicker than a heavier one (pointing me toward 45g)?  I have a feeling I can train myself to hover over the actuation point if that would be a plus for the 45g at all.

If I would use any cherry board now I would instantly use cherry red's, I am much more of a fps player (and I would prefer the linear feel of red much more).  I have a model M and I don't particularly mind the heaviness of the switch weight but I don't think I would ever want something heavier.  I am a little hesitant since the 55g might be too over my weight limit, and I'm not sure of the significance of the possible extra "springiness speed" or quicker/stronger finger hugging the heavier switch would have over the lower weight 45s.  Any help would be greatly greatly appreciated.

Offline Autolyze

  • Posts: 337
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 03 April 2012, 06:25:42 »
Quote from: meathook;565492
I'm looking into getting either a topre 55g or 45 uniform KB for gaming, fps (tf2) and sc2.

Is there any particular reason why you're thinking a Topre keyboard for gaming? They're my favorite for typing, but I think I prefer *all* of the Cherry MX switches (and buckling spring) over Topre for gaming.

Topres do not pop back up nearly as quickly as MX switches, since they get most of their resistance from their rubber domes rather than from their very weak springs. It's also far trickier to ride the actuation point on Topres since the resistance is all at the very top of the key and then it just collapses down when you press.

To answer you questions more directly: The 45g travels back towards your fingers at the same speed as the 55g (slow compared to MX) since I believe they use identical springs, and there's also not going to be a difference in how long it takes to actuate the switch when gaming, due to the resistance all being at the top.

I love Topre, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you're looking for something that's technically superior for gaming.
Das MX Brown | Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown | Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue | Realforce 87UB 45g | Leopold Tenkeyless MX Red | Leopold Tenkeyless MX Clear | IBM SSK Grey Label | KBC Poker X MX Black/Red | Realforce 87UW 55g | Siig MiniTouch White XM | Honeywell Keypad Hall Effect | Ducky 1087 Green XM | KBC Poker X MX Ghetto Green/Blue | Siig MiniTouch Monterey Blue| IBM SSK Grey Label #2 | Cherry G80-2551 MX Black

Offline Surly73

  • Posts: 496
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 03 April 2012, 07:42:42 »
@meathook: Topre switches have all of the "pop" up at the top of the travel.  First, I don't think you're going to notice a "strafing difference" between 45g and 55g.  Second, Topre may not be your switch for those purposes.  Cherry ergo (browns) switches have a little lump mid-press but it's not a rubber dome collapsing like in a Topre - it doesn't tend to suddenly break away.  As the weight of Topre switch goes up, the linear spring component of the weight stays the same but the "pop" gets more and more pronounced.

Offline meathook

  • Posts: 2
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 03 April 2012, 07:47:35 »
Thank you for the reply!  I am looking for a board that I can type as well as fps on, something easy and quick.  I have looked through all of my options and I would like to try it.  It still seems like what I would like.

Do you think the the 55g topres would be better for me and not too heavy since I'm mainly using wasd and not concerned with typing fatigue?  All I'm looking for here is precise, fast and comfortable control.

edit: I don't really care for a large tactile bump.  I'm sure either topre weight would be fine for me though.  Ah I see now, so the linear-ness stays the same between the weights but the actual dome is a bit firmer.   That makes me want a lighter key i think.

Offline flac.head

  • Posts: 18
  • Location: Northern Ireland
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 23 April 2012, 23:56:37 »
i have a realforce 88ub 45g. i came from cherry blacks. the the topres were very light to begin with for gaming but now i love it. delicious for typing too :) dont think i could go back to blacks...

Offline jooks1184

  • Posts: 179
Topre 45g vs 55g???? How heavy are they?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 24 April 2012, 09:10:02 »
I actually just got a Topre 55g uniform and also used a HHKB, which is a 45g uniform. I've never used a Model M but I can say that the 55g keys are pretty heavy. For typing however, they are nice and comfortable, which is strange for me cause I have a light touch when I type. Definitely heavier than Cherry Reds and Browns. Haven't tried a Cherry Black yet but I would assume it would be easier to press than the Topre due to the lack of the tactile hump. As for the price, I think it's all up to you. When it comes to the average user, probably not an investment you'd be willing to make. Topres aren't really well-known so I would say that it's more of an enthusiast item. Ever since I came to this site, I've spent a good amount of money and become addicted to keyboards :). So, from a logical point of view, it might not be the best investment. However, if you just have to try it out, try the classifieds. Lastly, the Tenkeyless being more expensive than the full-size is normal for most keyboards. You also get extra colored keycaps and dip switches to change the layout somewhat. Personally, not too bad. But then again, I can sometimes be an impulsive buyer.