[COMPLETED!] WYSE Moogle Kits!

[dorkvader]

Wait, what?  I was expecting that we could hit at least 50 base sets.  I am not sure if I want to pay $37 a set for a Wyse moogle kit.  Can't we wait a bit to get more orders?

If not, I might be out.

Yeah, same here. I'll have to drop down to 2 orders, unless we can get 50 pricing.

[litster]

I prefer we wait or find a way to get to 50.  We were only a few away from 50.  What's the hurry to close it so soon?  We are so used to long group buys, this is so far it is closed before I realized!  :-)

[inlikeflynn]

Wasn't there 43 standard orders listed there on the last update? If so we're already past the point where ordering >50 sets is better for everyone

 <50 sets $36.65 per set
>=50 sets $23.27 per set
>=75 sets $18.81 per set

MATH
43 sets x $36.65 = $1575.95 total cost
50 sets x $23.27 = $1163.5 total cost (this is cheaper)
75 sets x $18.81 = $1410.75 total cost (this is cheaper)
86 sets x $18.81 = $1617.66 total cost to DOUBLE everyone's order (costs $1 extra per original order set to double your order)

It makes no sense at all to order just 43 (or what ever the number is) sets when you can get any larger quantity for cheaper at this point. Hell just doubling every order ends up only costing $42 total more (basically $1 more per original order set).
Just double everything and make it simple. You pay $36.65 per single set OR your pay $37.65 and get to two sets. Everyone will chose to pay the extra $1 unless they are crazy

[captain]

If y'all want to agree to pay the extra to include a DARK TAB and ~ key, I'll reinstate my two orders, and might even push it to three or four.

But I think Quarzac has made his call.  I'll just wait for a FULL NEW Wyse kit, and then not have to worry about matching, etc.

If y'all need help with the colors though, I'm still happy to help.  (you may have to PM me, as I may not continue following this thread.  ;-)

[hashbaz]

If y'all want to agree to pay the extra to include a DARK TAB and ~ key, I'll reinstate my two orders, and might even push it to three or four.

But I think Quarzac has made his call.  I'll just wait for a FULL NEW Wyse kit, and then not have to worry about matching, etc.

If y'all need help with the colors though, I'm still happy to help.  :-)

Why do you want a dark tilde key?  It's not a modifier.  Every keyboard I've ever seen has it colored to match the alphanumeric keys.

[captain]

Did you see the picture of my keyboard?  I like the symmetry.  I'd prefer dark grey/brown/olive to the black, but I can live with the black until I can do something else.  I am NOT going to buy an 88% complete Moogle kit though.  That would just be stupid!  Then I'd have a black tab and a black ~ (or a completely !@#$ed profile ~)....  You can follow this logic at least, right?  And take a look back at my keyboard to see the symmetry I'm talking about.  Of course, I may just be insane...  ;-P

Here's what it looks like with the Wyse ~ key on there.  It just looks like a hanging chad to me:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44392[/ATTACH]

Here's my sense of balance appeased:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44391[/ATTACH]

FWIW, it's the same thing with the / key.  I want it to match the backspace and return keys.  

PS: I am in no way trying to muck with this GB.  At this point, it appears to have been set in stone.  But if y'all change it such that it provides what I need, I'm happy to do my part to push it into the next pricing tier.

[litster]

Did you see the picture of my keyboard?  I like the symmetry.  I'd prefer dark grey/brown/olive to the black, but I can live with the black until I can do something else.  I am NOT going to buy an 88% complete Moogle kit though.  That would just be stupid!  Then I'd have a black tab and a black ~ (or a completely !@#$ed profile ~)....  You can follow this logic at least, right?  And take a look back at my keyboard to see the symmetry I'm talking about.  Of course, I may just be insane...  ;-P

Here's what it looks like with the Wyse ~ key on there.  It just looks like a hanging chad to me:

(Attachment Link) 44392[/ATTACH]

Here's my sense of balance appeased:

(Attachment Link) 44391[/ATTACH]

FWIW, it's the same thing with the / key.  I want it to match the backspace and return keys.  

PS: I am in no way trying to muck with this GB.  At this point, it appears to have been set in stone.  But if y'all change it such that it provides what I need, I'm happy to do my part to push it into the next pricing tier.

Why are you forcing your own opinion on to us and make it sound like your opinion is the majority, the most logical choice, when in fact your opinion is the minority?

[captain]

I'm not forcing anything on anyone.  I'm stating a design preference based on a heightened sense of artistic aesthetics.

The evidence you provide, an array of keyboards whose looks are marred by a visually errant key (among other things), merely reinforces my original design decision, and reminds me of the fact that "average IQ" is a puny 100.  I fear to guess what artistic IQ must be in this country.  It often seems that artistic IQ plummets as standard IQ rises, giving rise to this keyboard:



You might just as well have displayed an array of Presidents' wives over the past 45 years.  Those are examples of what constitutes the vetted choices of men we trust to make big decisions for us.  But, aside from maybe Jackie Kennedy in her prime, I'll choose:



Or an endless array of McDonalds pink-slime crap.  I'll grill my own sirloin.
Or the average American car.... or the average house... or the typical outfit....

But hey, if you prefer things [strike]ugly[/strike] average, by all means, make YOUR keyboard look how YOU want it!  And if you think it looks better that way, great!  There's the great thing about replaceable keycaps.  :-)

FWIW, I showed my two layouts to several actual artists, and got 100% agreement that the one with the balanced dark keys (i.e. the dark ~ and dark /) looked best.

[Forin]

IMO This set is about to give a board a bit of an oldschool look.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 44411[/ATTACH]

edit:

therefore I don't need ~\

I'm not forcing anything on anyone.  I'm stating a design preference based on a heightened sense of artistic aesthetics.

The evidence you provide, an array of keyboards whose looks are marred by a visually errant key (among other things), merely reinforces my original design decision, and reminds me of the fact that "average IQ" is a puny 100.  I fear to guess what artistic IQ must be in this country.  It often seems that artistic IQ plummets as standard IQ rises, giving rise to this keyboard:



You might just as well have displayed an array of Presidents' wives over the past 45 years.  Those are examples of what constitutes the vetted choices of men we trust to make big decisions for us.  But, aside from maybe Jackie Kennedy in her prime, I'll choose:



Or an endless array of McDonalds pink-slime crap.  I'll grill my own sirloin.
Or the average American car.... or the average house... or the typical outfit....

But hey, if you prefer things [strike]ugly[/strike] average, by all means, make YOUR keyboard look how YOU want it!  And if you think it looks better that way, great!  There's the great thing about replaceable keycaps.  :-)

FWIW, I showed my two layouts to several actual artists, and got 100% agreement that the one with the balanced dark keys (i.e. the dark ~ and dark /) looked best.

[Hzza]

I'm cool with this too, happy to have an extra kit for a couple of extra $$$.

[robat]

I'm ok with doubling my order if it means reaching 50.  I can wait on this.

[kaiserreich]

So what is the consensus?
Quarzac to force everyone to double orders with $1 extra paid? ( I am okay with this)

I can't think of a better way. I mean, if I were to volunteer and it did not reach the volume, I'd be paying $43 extra for 2 sets instead.

If anyone has a better idea, lets hear it.

EDIT: Add-on keyset killed? I'll be damned.

[Autolyze]

Surely if we could do something along the lines of the order doubling, some people would also want an extra add-on set... It was just six copies away from getting made. :rip:

(Sorry to make things difficult, Quarzac)

[robat]

Wasn't there 43 standard orders listed there on the last update? If so we're already past the point where ordering >50 sets is better for everyone

 <50 sets $36.65 per set
>=50 sets $23.27 per set
>=75 sets $18.81 per set

MATH
43 sets x $36.65 = $1575.95 total cost
50 sets x $23.27 = $1163.5 total cost (this is cheaper)
75 sets x $18.81 = $1410.75 total cost (this is cheaper)
86 sets x $18.81 = $1617.66 total cost to DOUBLE everyone's order (costs $1 extra per original order set to double your order)

It makes no sense at all to order just 43 (or what ever the number is) sets when you can get any larger quantity for cheaper at this point. Hell just doubling every order ends up only costing $42 total more (basically $1 more per original order set).
Just double everything and make it simple. You pay $36.65 per single set OR your pay $37.65 and get to two sets. Everyone will chose to pay the extra $1 unless they are crazy

It would pay for Quarzac to order the extra 7 sets even if no one else doubles the orders.  He could collect more money than he would be sending to SP even with the extra shipping costs.

[hashbaz]

You can follow this logic at least, right?

The evidence you provide, an array of keyboards whose looks are marred by a visually errant key (among other things), merely reinforces my original design decision, and reminds me of the fact that "average IQ" is a puny 100.  I fear to guess what artistic IQ must be in this country.  It often seems that artistic IQ plummets as standard IQ rises, giving rise to this keyboard:

[ridiculous example]

Do you realize how arrogant and condescending this is?  The extent to which it makes people dismiss you?  If you counter with "well, I'm right" then you have missed the point.

You might just as well have displayed an array of Presidents' wives over the past 45 years.  Those are examples of what constitutes the vetted choices of men we trust to make big decisions for us.  But, aside from maybe Jackie Kennedy in her prime, I'll choose:

[Scarlet Johansson]

So will I, if I made life decisions based purely on arousal index.  I'm guessing that most of the presidents found something of value in their wives other than their bodies.

I get that you like the symmetry of a dark tilde and backslash.  But would you agree that keyboard color schemes are both functional and aesthetic?  The modifiers are colored together because they do not produce printable characters.  Everything in the main cluster that does produce printable characters is grouped together with a separate color.  Dark tilde and backslash look ridiculous to me for this reason.  That doesn't mean I am stupid or have no design sense.

But hey, if you prefer things [strike]ugly[/strike] average, by all means, make YOUR keyboard look how YOU want it!  And if you think it looks better that way, great!  There's the great thing about replaceable keycaps.  :-)

Again, rudeness, condescension, dismissiveness, and passive aggression.

FWIW, I showed my two layouts to several actual artists, and got 100% agreement that the one with the balanced dark keys (i.e. the dark ~ and dark /) looked best.

There's no "right" when it comes to aesthetics.  And asymmetry is also a well-established artistic and design principle, btw.  If you prefer dark tilde and backslash, fine.  You don't have to be a **** about it.

[kaiserreich]

:popcorn:
*passes around*

[sth]

I'm fine with doubling my order. I will probably turn around and sell two sets out of my four but that just means more moogles for everyone.

[dorkvader]

I'm fine with doubling my order, but I'd really much prefer changing from 3 to 5.

[sth]

Why are you forcing your own opinion on to us and make it sound like your opinion is the majority, the most logical choice, when in fact your opinion is the minority?

Well to be fair, lots of WYSE boards do have a darker esc key in the tilde spot.

[Quarzac]

Alright, here's what I'll do. When I get home, I'll log everyone who is ok with doubling. Then I'll contact the others. However, I'm a man of deadlines; I don't like long group buys, so I'll do that today and wait a couple days to see who I hear back from. I'll double all the agreeing orders at that point and let you know where we sit.

[Hzza]

Sounds good.

[kaiserreich]

I am okay with doubling the Base kit.
As to the Addon, yes too, if it means that I can make sure it means that the addon kit can proceed.

[captain]

Do you realize how arrogant and condescending this is?  The extent to which it makes people dismiss you?  If you counter with "well, I'm right" then you have missed the point.
There's no "right" when it comes to aesthetics.  And asymmetry is also a well-established artistic and design principle, btw.  If you prefer dark tilde and backslash, fine.  You don't have to be a **** about it.

Hey hashbaz,

Truce brother!   :-)

On the above points you are absolutely correct, and I agree with you completely; aside from the tone.  I'm sorry if I came across as a ****.  I feel that you were, and still are, attacking me directly for simply stating my design preference, and using "everyone does it this way" to smash my dreams; sure, a small dream, but nonetheless...  That's a common theme in my life, and my sense of righteous indignation probably came through more than I intended.  I should probably not respond to emotionally charged, potential flame wars, with zero sleep in 23 hours.  It was my intent to throw some humor into the discussion, while standing up for my preferences - that's all.  I'm sorry the humor didn't shine through and drown out my artist's pain.  :-P

It was heartening to hear my design choice approved by artists that I trust, and maybe that should have been enough.  I'm new to this community, and maybe my enthusiasm for these ubiquitous Human Computer Interfaces is not shared by others in the same way.  I guess time will tell.

Anyway, my sincere apologies for any ****iness that came across.  I just want to share my enjoyment of keyboards with kindred spirits here.

Peace

PS: I'd love to continue the discussion, if we can do it rationally, and debate merits without attacking character.

[hashbaz]

Hey hashbaz,

Truce brother!   :-)

On the above points you are absolutely correct, and I agree with you completely; aside from the tone.  I'm sorry if I came across as a ****.  I feel that you were, and still are, attacking me directly for simply stating my design preference, and using "everyone does it this way" to smash my dreams; sure, a small dream, but nonetheless...  That's a common theme in my life, and my sense of righteous indignation probably came through more than I intended.  I should probably not respond to emotionally charged, potential flame wars, with zero sleep in 23 hours.  It was my intent to throw some humor into the discussion, while standing up for my preferences - that's all.  I'm sorry the humor didn't shine through and drown out my artist's pain.  :-P

It was heartening to hear my design choice approved by artists that I trust, and maybe that should have been enough.  I'm new to this community, and maybe my enthusiasm for these ubiquitous Human Computer Interfaces is not shared by others in the same way.  I guess time will tell.

Anyway, my sincere apologies for any ****iness that came across.  I just want to share my enjoyment of keyboards with kindred spirits here.

Peace

PS: I'd love to continue the discussion, if we can do it rationally, and debate merits without attacking character.

Fair enough, let's consider this a reset then, as we've clashed in other threads as well.  I admit that the tone of your posts frequently gets under my skin.  I apologize for letting that show in my responses.  We disagree on the dark tilde issue and that's fine.

My substantive argument is that there are good reasons for the standard coloration of tilde and backspace, which work both functionally and aesthetically.  For me the asymmetry of the standard color scheme creates visual interest.  It's like the rule of thirds in photography, or having a bright red escape key.  And the size difference between corresponding keys on either side of the main cluster means that perfect symmetry is impossible anyway.  Then there's the functional argument that printable characters are one color, while modifiers and non-printable characters are another.

[captain]

Your points make sense; I would call your preference a "form follows function" design.  I would prefer that format too, if I had to look at my keyboard to find the right keys - not to imply that you do, but I don't - on a standard ANSI layout, I touch type.  So, when I look at my keyboard it is to appreciate it as a piece of art, not to find keys.  When I approach my keyboard I look at it, and want to think, "Oo!  I do have a pretty looking keyboard!" and then, once I have my hands on it, I just want to FEEL how nice it is, since I'll be looking at my screen 100% of the time after that, and only seeing the keyboard peripherally.

I wonder if that's where/why we are disagreeing. Now both of our perspectives make sense to me.  I want my keyboard to be a functional piece of art, and it sounds like you want it to be consistently designed with what you are used to.  Does that sound right to you?  I wonder what the tally would be if we polled all of these elite keyboardists?  Not that either of us are going to change our minds - I'm just curious.  :-)

I think we've gone way off topic here, and should perhaps carry this on in its own thread.  But I'm glad that we managed to share our ideas, and back away from the battle.  Thanks!  I am mostly sticking around this thread now, with the extremely small hope that the TAB and ~ might be offered at a reasonable additional price; and to offer color help, if needed.

[litster]

Crap.  The fire is out before I could put more gasoline in.

[dorkvader]

Crap.  The fire is out before I could put more gasoline in.

It's terrible how reasonable some people can be

I hope we can get to better pricing: that would be excellent.

[jellowiggler]

If everyone just adds one kit, you'll be above the $75, and everyone gets cheap keys for about $1.  Awesome.

As for the dark tilde, this is a group by and Captain just has to realize the most keyboards don't have it and most people don't want it.  (I did go looking, there is some WYSE stuff out there that did have a dark tilde)  Group buys have to be dictated by what the majority wants.  Captain your posts did come off as condescending and out of place, especially that late in the thread.  Like I said before, I'm sure there are lots of WYSE key holders out there that will trade you a dark tilde.  You know where to post the WTB thread.  You won't be stuck for long.

Enjoy the keys you guys.  It looks like they will come out great with the attention to detail in the handling of the GB we've seen.

[Quarzac]

Oh dear god I did not think this through. I do not want to send the 30 something PMs this requires. But I'll do it for you guys.

[litster]

Quarzac told me we were 6 sets short to reinstate the 1.5x add-on kit.  I think the Wyse caps with moogle kit and the 1.5x add on kit would look super nice on Swede's aluminum case with Phantom.  With people doubling the base kits, anyone one wants to add 1 or 2 1.5x add-on kits?