asasasas instead of assssss

[yttrium]

I get asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas with this keyboard using WinXP:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 42852[/ATTACH]

On my Ducky, I get asssssssssssssssssssssssss on Win7. Both use USB, the Dell has 2KRO and the Ducky has NKRO. I wonder, if I use a PS/2 adapter on the Ducky, would Windows interpret the packets differently (actually behave according to PS/2 spec)?

[alaricljs]

Since PS/2 doesn't use packets and there's no choice in regard to obeying the PS/2 spec then I'm thinking you'll get exactly what the PS/2 spec says you will.

[alaricljs]

frofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofrofro

Should practice more piano.

[Soarer]

I think there are 2 separate issue here. 1: what exactly is the keyboard spitting out, 2: how is the OS interpreting it. 1 should be easy to test. USB sniffer should be able to read what's being outputted by the keyboard. May be that'll help better decipher the behavior of the controller. I think we need to figure that out before testing behavior of the OS.
I do agree this is McRip effect territory. Unless you're soarer and other people who have written firmware for controllers, it has almost zero tangible effect on computing.
PS, I am the idiot who mentioned debounce. Just how relevant is it?

Last point first: Oops. Friendly fire casualty. But, you are not the idiot, you are wise since you inquired about debounce!

AFAIK, most keyboards use a pretty basic algorithm for debouncing. They wait until all keys have stopped bouncing, rather than debouncing each key individually. This means that any key change during the debounce of another key extends the debounce period. And that means that even key changes that don't occur within the same matrix scan can become ready for output at the same time. That doesn't exactly cause this phenomena, but it does make it much easier to trigger (and also transposition errors).

I refuse to use the name of some bull**** 'effect'. Even more so here because I see curiosity and banter on this topic, not complaints! If some keyboards turn out to be better than others in this regard then it's up to the buyer whether it makes any difference to their purchasing decisions.

Of course this has pretty much zero tangible effect on computing. It's still interesting to note that it happens, and understand why it happens, even to some people who aren't developing firmware. But examining why any particular keyboard outputs 'simultaneous' events in the order that they do, well, that's uninteresting even for me! It totally depends on the firmware (which obviously includes the matrix scan code, but a lot else as well). It certainly has no relevance to how I might make design choices in my code.

[laffindude]

My view on the "effect" is that it's stuff that only wacky enthusiasts care about. like 88tooth ratchets vs 84tooth. I think bar fights have started from those talks ;o

Debouncing in batch was one of my guesses about the behavior. The other is how often the controller actually poll the matrix, since it could be different than the USB reporting rate.

[captain]

assssssssssssssssssasssssssssssssssaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadfjksajklfffffffffffffffffffffffspqiuowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwenm,.....................hjkllllllllllllhuuuuuuuuuuuuurfffffffffffffffrrrrrrrrrrrrrgttttttttttttttgggggggggggggggg

it seems that whichever key is sent last, gets replicated by the "key repeater".

[Soarer]

My view on the "effect" is that it's stuff that only wacky enthusiasts care about. like 88tooth ratchets vs 84tooth. I think bar fights have started from those talks ;o

Debouncing in batch was one of my guesses about the behavior. The other is how often the controller actually poll the matrix, since it could be different than the USB reporting rate.

Wacky... is relative! We are here to fuss over keyboards, and just because one person doesn't think something relevant... is irrelevant. :-D

Yeah, I guess if the keyboard scans faster than it can send, then one report might be a combination of events from more than one scan. However, if the keyboard does all-in-one batch debouncing, that can't happen ;-)

[Soarer]

Bull**** is a bad word.

Apt then. Bad word for a bad thing.

The is sososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososososo

much friendlier.

When you brought it into existance purely to annoy those who disagreed with you - hardly.

[ryan92084]

I get asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas with this keyboard using WinXP:
(Attachment Link) 42852[/ATTACH]

On my Ducky, I get asssssssssssssssssssssssss on Win7. Both use USB, the Dell has 2KRO and the Ducky has NKRO. I wonder, if I use a PS/2 adapter on the Ducky, would Windows interpret the packets differently (actually behave according to PS/2 spec)?

Odd, my ducky does asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas on USB also qewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtryqewtry

[yttrium]

*inserts USB > PS/2 adapter*
ththisis wasas aa trtriuiumpmphh

i'i'mm mamakikingng aa nonotete heherere:: HUHUGEGE SUSUCCCCESESSS

Just kidding.
asssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Must be controller-based, though with PS/2 I'm noticing it's much more responsive. Maybe it's just me though.

[Dox]

hummmmm...

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

fufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufu
ufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufuf

[alaricljs]

Now you have me wondering if you're futzing with your Dox firmware  

[Dox]

hahah I didn't change anything for real. It's just that good!

[All The Fire]

asssssssss
fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg
rtttttttttttt
jkkkkkkkkkkkkk
jhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjh

fgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjhgjh
asdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdf
qwerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
tuyiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Leopold plugged into a Lenovo Thinkpad. I'm so confused. :S

[All The Fire]

Ripster, were you the personality model for GLaDOS?

It's Science!

[keyboardlover]

I think of him more like Vicki from Small Wonder.

[Dox]

hummm....

DoxKB hasu's firmware:
ewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrty
wertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywerty
tyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewtyrewewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrtyewrty
tyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwetyrwe
wertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywerty

HHKB pro2:
dfghjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj
sdfghhhhh
wreytttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt
ytwreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Dox]

That doesn't make sense.
I can do both and my scanning order is from right to left.


mfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmf
fmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfm


ufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufuf
fufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufu


Maybe the filco controller is just too slow.

[keyboardlover]

fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Mine seems ok.

[Lu_e]

fmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfm

ya neither can I

fmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmmffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfm

wqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtrewqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtrewqetrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrwqtreqtreqtreqtreqtrewqretttttttttttttttttttttttwqetrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrtrqwqetrtrtrtrwqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtre qtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtreqtre

[All The Fire]

fmfmfmfmfmfm
fmfmfmfmfmfmfmfmfm
mfffffffffffff
fmmmmmmmmmm
fmfmfmfmfmfm

qwertyqwertyqwertyqwertyqwertyqwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty
qscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjoqscbjo
asdjklasdjklasdjklasdjklasdjklasdjklasdjklasdjkl
kljjjjjjjjj
zxcuiozxcuiozxcuiozxcuiozxcuio

Mionix Zibal. Funnily enough the Mionix seems to be able to do any combination of up to 6 keys and shift, or 5 keys shift and enter, but my Leopold can only do some combinations of 2. Unsure of the state of the USB ports in my work laptop though, if that affects it.

DID I SCIENCE???

[captain]

See.  I can't do M F.

That's nothing to be ashamed of, ripster.  Some people are just born that way.  ;-)

[dnLL]

qwwwww
ewwwww
errrrrrrrrrr
rttttttttt
yttttttttt
uyyyyyyy
iuuuuuuu
iooooooo
opppppp

[All The Fire]

I've found my Mionix doing something funny. It seems to be top to bottom, left to right, but going left to right U, J and M seem to have been swapped with Y, H and N, they'll always kick in first. Top to bottom will still kick in so it will go Y, J then H for example.

tytytytyty
uyuyuyuyuy
uiuiuiuiui
yiyiyi

ghghghghghgh
jhjhjhjhjh
jkjkjkjkjkjk
hkhkhkhk

bnbnbnbn
mnmnmnmnmnmn
m,m,m,m,m,m,
n,n,n,n,

uyhuyhuyh
yjhyjhyjhyjh
yhmyhmyhmyhm
uhnuhn
jhnjhnjhn
jnijnijni
jhijhijhi

Also, numbers act as if they're below letters.

q1q1q1q1q1
a1a1a1a1
z1z1z1z1
qaz1qaz1qaz1qaz1qaz1
1w1w1w1w
1s1s1s
1x1x1x1x1x
1wsx1wsx1wsx1wsx1wsx1wsx1wsx

[Soarer]

If impressed with my keyboard scanning experiments and observations...

Not in the slightest! You could at least try it on a different keyboard, as All The Fire has done.

Your 'Science' has about as much relevance as a morning fart on Titan.

Good morning!

[dnLL]

I would like to get keys to alternate on my Leopold on W7, but it won't happen.

[Dox]

You cant predict how mine will work....

ononononononononononononononononononononononononononononon
nononononononononononononononononononononononononononono
ononononononononononononononononononononononon
nonononononononononononononononononononono

Edit: It's easy to predict. Just press the first key first. Filco scanning is too slow to pick up the small delay between the 2 keys I guess.

[keyboardlover]

*everyone's keyboard explodes*

[Dox]

No quirk in my firmware.

With a credit card at a very slight angle:
 left to right
wertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywerty

right to left
ytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrew

[keyboardlover]

Hahaha. I like the way ripster jokes about me now that we're friends



I can jib back too ripster! You assssss

[Soarer]

Filco scanning is too slow to pick up the small delay between the 2 keys I guess.

No quirk in my firmware.

With a credit card at a very slight angle:
 left to right
wertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywertywerty

right to left
ytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrewytrew

Dox > Filco :-)

How fast do you scan?

[Dox]

I'm using hasu's firmware so I can't say exactly what is the rate. I'll try to look at the code later to see if I can figure it out.

[Soarer]

Dox AND hasu > Filco :-D

[Soarer]

ripster says...

I can't believe Wellington 1869 used to obsess about this stuff so much.  Reminds me of KL obsessing over me and posting every time I post.

our records show...
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 43583[/ATTACH]

oops!

[keyboardlover]

ripster says...

Originally Posted by ripster
I can't believe Wellington 1869 used to obsess about this stuff so much.  Reminds me of KL obsessing over me and posting every time I post.

our records show...

Show Image

oops!

Lol...ripster was just kidding. We're friends now!

See my subforum for more info =)

[Soarer]

science works.

Small 'S' now?

[Soarer]

Lol...ripster was just kidding. We're friends now!

See my subforum for more info =)

What happens in subforum, stays in subforum.

[bpiphany]

I'm using hasu's firmware so I can't say exactly what is the rate. I'll try to look at the code later to see if I can figure it out.

No access to an oscilloscope?

[Grendel]

[ack. accident, sorry.]

[0100010]

Holy necro.

Now one had to ask what was one googling to bring up a thread on assssssssssssssssssss.

[paicrai]

If you time it right, repeating the pressed letters is possible.
asasasasasasasasasasasasas
dfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdf
zxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzxzx
hjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhjhj
klklklklklklklklklklklklklklklkl
It works every time on my QFR

[esoomenona]

I can't get that to happen at all, and as far as I can remember typing on a Windows computer, that has never happened.

[Grendel]

Hah -- that seems to be it: if multiple keys become active at nearly the same time and are initially send in the same USB report they will repeat together. This means that the slower the scan rate of the key matrix and the USB poll rate, the easier this can be archived. I managed to do it once on this QFS w/ custom firmware and 500us scan interval/2ms poll rate.

fggfffffffffffffgffffffffffffffgfffffffffffgffffffffdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfdffffffffffffffdddddddddddddddddddddfddddddddddddddf