Author Topic: Programming (Read 1689 times)

MyNameIsFinn · « **on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 14:55:21 »

Hi, I want to get into the field of programming

Now, I am not the brightest nor do I claim to be, I want to know a couple things.

A: What are the uses of programming, Ex: Making Games

B: What is the best starting language

C: Try to explain to me exactly what "programming" is

I am really, really interested in this

Also for some reason hacking and programming seem to go hand and hand, why is this, what are the similarities.

davkol · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:06:42 »

Read this: How to Become a Hacker and Instant Hacking

davkol · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:09:15 »

HTML is not programming. ~,^

MyNameIsFinn · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:24:51 »

Quote from: ripster;553818

Programming is a bit of a dead end career. Read Isaac Asimov. And that gameshow with that Jennings guy that thought he was so smart.

Future is in Web Design.

How in any way is programming a dead career?

alaricljs · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:33:01 »

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn;553796

A: What are the uses of programming, Ex: Making Games
To bend a computer system to your will
ex: make software that does useful things (spreadsheets, tax returns, entertainment, make money)

B: What is the best starting language
The one to which you have easy access and facilitates your ability to do A
For instance if you want to make an advanced web thingie, PHP, ruby, or similar.

C: Try to explain to me exactly what "programming" is
See A. Providing instructions to a computer in order for it to accomplish a task.

Also for some reason hacking and programming seem to go hand and hand, why is this, what are the similarities.
See A. The fastest way between any 2 points is to hop on someone else's back. If there is a program out there that does what you need or nearly what you need, that's your starting point.

And blah blah blah because my message is too short (it's all in the QUOTE!)

MyNameIsFinn · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:34:16 »

Quote from: davkol;553805

Read this: How to Become a Hacker and Instant Hacking

How to become a hacker states that I should begin using Ubuntu, I will be doing this, however, it also says to use Python, I checked and it seems that Python for Ubuntu isn't open source, what would you recommend?

davkol · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:47:42 »

Python is open source.

Just read both texts and try a little bit of simple programming (following the Instant Hacking guide). It will give you an idea.

Python is very nice for beginners. There are many slightly more advanced guides like How to Think Like a Computer Scientist.

...after finishing it, you should be able to write simple programs and pick up some kind of free/open-source project, study algorithms, learn other programming languages and frameworks etc.

alaricljs · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 15:48:30 »

Wait, what? Straight from their home page: Python is free to use, even for commercial products, because of its OSI-approved open source license.

Being on Ubuntu changes nothing in that regard. If you really want to learn something I'd go with Debian as soon as you get the hang of Ubuntu. Maybe skip Ubuntu altogether, but perhaps you need the step up.

whiskerBox · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 16:09:19 »

A really fun way to learn some Java is by playing a Game called "code hero" <-- google it (costs $ but is fun and educational) similar to portal and minecraft.

I will probably get yelled at for saying this, but I really like VB(visual basic). Although I also work with Java, but I do not like it as much as VB or C#

davkol · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 16:20:12 »

There's a similar free game.

Java as the first language. IMHO insane. I could already suggest LISP (that's much better BTW).

But OP: it's not gonna be easy.

glossywhite · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 19:33:40 »

Coding... pftt... read this before considering your career choice; coding is DULL, offers very few projects that return emotional and satisfactory reward (most code projects are giant, bespoke, corporate software suites that would drive you insane in a day). There's a massive difference between coding for enjoyment, and ruining that fun for a living.

Think carefully, choose wisely. Working in a chocolate factory sounds fab... until you tire of endless chocolate, and end up disliking your favourite treat.

Don't believe me? Take half an hour, a coffee, and read this article SLOWLY:
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Programming-Sucks!-Or-At-Least,-It-Ought-To-.aspx

I love programming a little in Javascript & Java... and I want that love to remain.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 19:50:12 »

I've been a professional programmer for over six years. I'll try to answer as best I can.

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn

A: What are the uses of programming, Ex: Making Games

It's more like what aren't the uses of programming. Every computer system you've ever used, either natively or on the internet, was programmed.

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn

B: What is the best starting language

There are many opinions on this...at the very least you should start with an object-oriented language. I recommend C#. In any case you should start by mastering one language. Once you've done that it's easier to learn other languages/technologies.

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn

C: Try to explain to me exactly what "programming" is

Computer programming is essentially the act of writing code which equates to instructions that tell the computer system what to do. A computer program called a compiler or interpreter (depending on the language) translates the code into machine-readable binary code (ones and zeros).

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn

Also for some reason hacking and programming seem to go hand and hand, why is this, what are the similarities.

Depends what you mean by "hacking". In it's purest sense, "hacking" essentially means some combination of tinkering/fixing/changing a system. I like to think of myself as "hacking" when I change code and make it better (refactoring) or when I'm fixing bugs/glitches in a system.

MyNameIsFinn · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 19:55:43 »

Quote from: glossywhite;554035

Coding... pftt... read this before considering your career choice; coding is DULL, offers very few projects that return emotional and satisfactory reward (most code projects are giant, bespoke, corporate software suites that would drive you insane in a day). There's a massive difference between coding for enjoyment, and ruining that fun for a living.

Think carefully, choose wisely. Working in a chocolate factory sounds fab... until you tire of endless chocolate, and end up disliking your favourite treat.

Don't believe me? Take half an hour, a coffee, and read this article SLOWLY:
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Programming-Sucks!-Or-At-Least,-It-Ought-To-.aspx

I love programming a little in Javascript & Java... and I want that love to remain.

Im already insane, can't drive me more insane, not possibly.

MyNameIsFinn · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 19:56:25 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;554050

I've been a professional programmer for over six years. I'll try to answer as best I can.

It's more like what aren't the uses of programming. Every computer system you've ever used, either natively or on the internet, was programmed.

There are many opinions on this...at the very least you should start with an object-oriented language. I recommend C#. In any case you should start by mastering one language. Once you've done that it's easier to learn other languages/technologies.

Computer programming is essentially the act of writing code which equates to instructions that tell the computer system what to do. A computer program called a compiler or interpreter (depending on the language) translates the code into machine-readable binary code (ones and zeros).

Depends what you mean by "hacking". In it's purest sense, "hacking" essentially means some combination of tinkering/fixing/changing a system. I like to think of myself as "hacking" when I change code and make it better (refactoring) or when I'm fixing bugs/glitches in a system.

Thanks very helpful KL

keyboardlover · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 20:07:26 »

You're welcome!

hazeluff · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 20:37:31 »

Quote

Python is free to use, even for commercial products, because of its OSI-approved open source license.

That sounds so retarded. == It's a language. Its like saying you can speak English FOR FREE!

I forget names...but are you "This Was A Triumph" on steam, op?

hazeluff · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 22 March 2012, 20:44:49 »

KL covers it all.

As for uses of programming. A lot nowadays is software programming, to make tools for people to use to make things easier/entertainment.

Tho there's programming to do crunch numbers for us. Like it's used for lots of things.

So far I've used it to:

-Make games
-Program micro controllers (to make little toy line follower)
-Make Vector processing core (VHDL - FPGA).
-Image Processing (Verilog - FPGA).
-Signal Processing - Noise filter (C - DSK).

Yeah, what programming is is making instructions for a electronic machine to run. Most electronics are programmed in some way.

davkol · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 02:36:39 »

Quote from: hazeluff;554110

That sounds so retarded. == It's a language. Its like saying you can speak English FOR FREE!

Batteries included. And I guess they mean CPython.

Wildcard · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 02:59:13 »

Quote from: davkol;553810

HTML is not programming. ~,^

Technically correct, HTML is a markup language (thus the ML at the end ). PHP and JavaScript, that's more programming for web.

Quote from: davkol;553805

Read this: How to Become a Hacker and Instant Hacking

Seriously? None of this is hacking. Unless you're talking about how to be a hack in the IT world. I think that was just a troll post.

BTW: The term "Hacker" is overly used and somewhat annoying. As in "Hack a Day" add some light bulbs to a battery to be a "Hacker". Or, someone who claims they're a hacker on youtube by modifying their phones bootrom. Or a script kitty calling themselves a "Hacker", or someone saying, look I just installed Metasploit, "I'm a Hacker Now"

You know who a real hacker is? Someone who doesn't call themselves one.

Sometimes you reach a point in computers/electronics where you just want to do "more" and that's when you learn to program.

Ekaros · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 03:15:29 »

Quote from: ripster;553818

Programming is a bit of a dead end career. Read Isaac Asimov. And that gameshow with that Jennings guy that thought he was so smart.

Future is in Web Design.

So how do you think Internet works? As a whole, including every part? I'm starting to belive Internet is one of the most complex systems around, if you include all technologies that are used and needed to keep it up and running. HTML, TCP, IP are just small part of it...

Programming isn't going anywhere as long as we use computers...

Personaly I would start from something simple just to get familiar with basics, like loops, if-clauses, functions and such. Time is better spend learning those than fighting with compiler or strange memory managment

mbc · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 03:59:42 »

i would recommend starting with a language that fits your interests
e.g. if you want to program games try c# + xna ...

captain · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 04:21:34 »

http://ruby.learncodethehardway.org/

I recommend Ruby, but replace ruby in that URL with whatever other language you like. That's a good starting place.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 06:24:48 »

Quote from: Ekaros;554410

So how do you think Internet works? As a whole, including every part? I'm starting to belive Internet is one of the most complex systems around, if you include all technologies that are used and needed to keep it up and running. HTML, TCP, IP are just small part of it...

Programming isn't going anywhere as long as we use computers...

Personaly I would start from something simple just to get familiar with basics, like loops, if-clauses, functions and such. Time is better spend learning those than fighting with compiler or strange memory managment

Ripster is just jealous. He couldn't code his way out of a paper bag

itlnstln · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 07:18:49 »

Quote from: MyNameIsFinn;553822

How in any way is programming a dead career?

I wouldn't call it a dead career, but it is becoming a commoditized skill, particularly when in comes to corporate IT and the requirements/solution model. Also, from what I have seen, unless you work for a software/technology company, you pretty much have no chance in moving up very high in corporate IT. Even with my, albeit limited, skill set and general knack for building kick-ass stuff, I could never make more than I can on the business side. What would make me an average programmer in IT makes me worth my weight in gold for "the business."

Aseral · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 07:20:27 »

I think C is a very good first programming language. Many even call it a "low-level language"(it's obviously not low-level) but it helps you understand how things really work and gets you very "close to the metal". It was my first language and I must say everything after that just seemed easy.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:48:10 »

I know developers who have gone on into roles like architect, product manager, manager and executive positions among others. So "dead-end" career is pure bull****.

itlnstln · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:56:45 »

Not to say you can't, but when you can outsource your development to a bunch of code jockeys overseas, being a programmer becomes limited. In fact, we only employ a small number of true programmers. Mostly we have tech leads, architects, managers, etc., while all of the actual programming is outsourced. While our people know some programming, you don't need in-depth programming skills to do a lot of the higher-level jobs. It's more about managing the people, QA, dealing with the business, etc. Unless you work for a very small company, the CIO isn't slinging code. Neither do the directors or managers.

Mechanics don't lead car companies.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:43:39 »

Studies on outsourcing in recent years have shown that it is not viable for most companies, especially large companies. Outsourcing has resulted in a LOT more failed projects than in-sourcing has. Which is why most companies are now moving away from it.

Outsourcing is largely a fading trend now. You guys need to stay current with this stuff!

Don't get me started on all the problems that come with outsourcing programming. I've heard about large databases that got outsourced and when delivered, had no primary keys. Or projects that got shipped with so many bugs they were largely un-usable in production. Or projects that didn't even ship because they never got started and the customer kept getting the run-around for months!

And then what do customers do? They hire another outsourcing company, and then another, and then another. It's a vicious cycle that costs TONS of money, and then most of the projects fail anyway.

Outsourcing a threat to American programmers? That's, like, so 3-5 years ago.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:48:31 »

Quote from: ripster

Not just outsourcing. Obama and that Intel guy want to loosen up visas so we just import Indians and Asians.

This is good because I am pissed how much Adobe SW is.

They just want to increase the H-1B count. Which has been decreasing in the past 3-5 years.

That's not unusual, it happens all the time.

nmd · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 23 March 2012, 21:04:30 »

Skimmed all of this(skipping most) just so I could say the following: Python.

Sorry, I love it. JavaScript is ok too. >.>

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Author Topic: Programming (Read 1689 times)