Poker DIY kit - EXCLUSIVELY AVAILABLE AT GEEKHACK ! ! !

[hashbaz]

Yes. I solder/repair IBM Servers/Motherboards every day, as well as build random things in my spare time. I've got a Hakko FX888, Aoyue 852+ Hotair Setup, warming plate, and a basic oven for low-level reflow jobs. I should be able to do BGA reballing soon as well (Xbox360 Repairs).

Normally we charge $75 - $125 an hour, but that's our commercial rates. I'm doing this as a favor to the GH Community.

You sir are awesome. :thumb:

[demik]

Yes. I solder/repair IBM Servers/Motherboards every day, as well as build random things in my spare time. I've got a Hakko FX888, Aoyue 852+ Hotair Setup, warming plate, and a basic oven for low-level reflow jobs. I should be able to do BGA reballing soon as well (Xbox360 Repairs).

Normally we charge $75 - $125 an hour, but that's our commercial rates. I'm doing this as a favor to the GH Community.

You're a good guy!

I want to learn how to solder! Any tips?

[tsangan]

You're a good guy!

I want to learn how to solder! Any tips?

Don't learn from me :thumb:

[keebler64]

You're a good guy!

I want to learn how to solder! Any tips?

For learning purposes, get some cheap LEDs, a few Caps, some 470ohm resistors, a 3.3v Power source (2-AA batteries) and a $7 Soldering iron from Radio Shack. Pay attention to your tips (soldering iron tips). Do not let them burn, clean them before each solder application, tin them correctly, and do not apply too much heat to the component.

For more advanced stuff. Spend the $60 and get a cheap used Weller or Elenco, adjustable Temp, get a medium-fine tip, and keep it at, or around 400c for most soldering applications. DO NOT use that cheap POS Radioshack on any heat sensitive components. The 25w Irons don't heat the contacts quick enough for the solder to flow properly, which will/can cause damage to the pads and components. De-lamination can occur, as well as total component failure.

Make good use of Flux as well. And keep your contacts clean.

[keebler64]

For learning purposes, get some cheap LEDs, a few Caps, and a $7 Soldering iron from Radio Shack. Pay attention to your tips (soldering iron tips). Do not let them burn, clean them before each solder application, tin them correctly, and do not apply too much heat to the component.

For more advanced stuff. Spend the $60 and get a cheap used Weller or Elenco, adjustable Temp, get a medium-fine tip, and keep it at, or around 400c for most soldering applications. DO NOT use that cheap POS Radioshack on any heat sensitive components. The 25w Irons don't heat the contacts quick enough for the solder to flow properly, which will/can cause damage to the pads and components. De-lamination can occur, as well as total component failure.

Make good use of Flux as well. And keep your contacts clean.

Also, read up on Digital Circuits. Look at their operation, and understand the fundamentals of how an electronic circuit works. Know the difference between an open, short, or crossed/short. Know the difference between A/C and DC current/voltages, and understand the min and max tolerances of the components you are working on.

EDIT: This is WAY off topic guys... need more people to get these Pokers!  /mecrackswhip...

[rknize]

Since the plate is just floating and doesn't seem to interface with the PCB or case at all, does it really help all that much?  I suppose it would help with the annoying PCB flex that the poker has.

For folks talking about LEDs, you need to consider ohms law when you calculate what value resistors to use.   The keyboard in that picture appears to be strapping the LEDs to the 5V Vbus.  So for a 2.8V @ 20mA LED, you could calculate the resistor for each LED value as follows:

Vdrop = Vbus - Vled
Vdrop = 5V - 2.8V
Vdrop = 2.2V

R = Vdrop / Iled
R = 2.2V / 0.020A
R = 110 ohms

The closest common value would be a 120 ohm resistor.  That assumes you want them at full brightness.    In fact, you won't be able to light a full set of LEDs at 20mA, due to the supply current limitations of USB (20mA * 80 = 1.6A!).  You'd probably want to run them much lower than this to be safe.  If you use an LED that operates at a voltage lower than 2.5V, you can place them in series pairs.  Then your current requirements drop by half.

Any 1/4W or 1/8W resistor will be adequate.  I wouldn't use SMDs unless you are experienced at soldering.  Regular, axial carbon film resistors will work just fine.

[CuteVoodooDoll]

Heh, I deadbug-wire/solder SMD all the time..

Here's my FraggleRock MIDI Door Chime Relay for a '95 VW Golf running on a 32 TQFP SMD ATMEG168...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWV3cYsR8Wc

Better example of the wires... it was a prototype... very ugly, but performed it's task.  The "white stuff" is hot melt glue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqf9Rgwhoaw&feature=channel&list=UL



Anyway, if anyone needs these boards soldered, I'll offer services of $5 per board, you supply the parts and shipping both ways. I can do a board in 10 minutes or less. I have an oven and hot air system. I can do a 1 day turn-around.

PM me if you're interested. I accept paypal or moneyorders.

This guy is going to be either one of the kindest members, or the one with the most poker keyboards XD.

[keebler64]

Since the plate is just floating and doesn't seem to interface with the PCB or case at all, does it really help all that much?  I suppose it would help with the annoying PCB flex that the poker has.

For folks talking about LEDs, you need to consider ohms law when you calculate what value resistors to use.   The keyboard in that picture appears to be strapping the LEDs to the 5V Vbus.  So for a 2.8V @ 20mA LED, you could calculate the resistor for each LED value as follows:

Vdrop = Vbus - Vled
Vdrop = 5V - 2.8V
Vdrop = 2.2V

R = Vdrop / Iled
R = 2.2V / 0.020A
R = 110 ohms

The closest common value would be a 120 ohm resistor.  That assumes you want them at full brightness.    In fact, you won't be able to light a full set of LEDs at 20mA, due to the supply current limitations of USB (20mA * 80 = 1.6A!).  You'd probably want to run them much lower than this to be safe.  If you use an LED that operates at a voltage lower than 2.5V, you can place them in series pairs.  Then your current requirements drop by half.

Any 1/4W or 1/8W resistor will be adequate.  I wouldn't use SMDs unless you are experienced at soldering.  Regular, axial carbon film resistors will work just fine.

Finally someone else that understands!

I was trying to explain to someone that the USB BUS can only support a "max" of 500mA at best, there are plenty of 1.8v LEDs on the market that operate at anywhere between 5mA-10mA, however, they're not nearly as bright as your standard 3.3v. SMD isn't all that bad if you can get comfortable with 30ga wire and have a steady hand. 1206 SMD LEDs are pretty easy to work with (with practice). If you're willing to add a secondary USB Supply, you could run the LEDs at about 10mA safely.

[keebler64]

I am not looking to make a profit off of this, nor am I asking for boards/pcb's for reciprocation. I'm doing these on my lunch breaks, the $5 covers the time spent not eating.

Now, I wouldn't be apposed to a donation. But I'm not asking for one. If you feel you can not solder well enough to do this job, I have no problem helping out.

If you do consider my offer, I strongly suggest UPS, and please include a pre-paid return shipping label. UPS delivers 3 times a day, and picks up packages at 1700CST. IF the boards are received by 1200cst, I will ship them the same day. If you're in Texas, Oklahoma, and parts of Louisiana, it will be next day via Ground w/ UPS.

PM for additional details.

EDIT: Removed other advertising, I don't want to turn this into a plug for my services... if you have any questions. PLEASE PM me. Otherwise, keep this thread on track.

[net2522]

^:thumb:

[tsangan]

iMav is there a tentative close/ship date for these?

[smknjoe]

Is it possible to get a standard plastic Poker case as well?  (Since the kit comes with two PCBs, I'd probably want to build two Poker keyboards, one with an aluminum case and one with a plastic case for portable use.)

^

[rknize]

I was trying to explain to someone that the USB BUS can only support a "max" of 500mA at best

Indeed...and that assumes that the controller requests high-power mode.  Otherwise we are limited to 100mA.  Looking at lsusb output, I don't think that the Poker requests 5 units.

there are plenty of 1.8v LEDs on the market that operate at anywhere between 5mA-10mA, however, they're not nearly as bright as your standard 3.3v.

I don't understand the obsession with bright LEDs these days.  Blue and white LEDs are offensive to the eyes.  To each their own, I guess.

SMD isn't all that bad if you can get comfortable with 30ga wire and have a steady hand. 1206 SMD LEDs are pretty easy to work with (with practice). If you're willing to add a secondary USB Supply, you could run the LEDs at about 10mA safely.

This is probably the only reasonable option, unless it is somehow possible to modify the controller to request high-power.

[keebler64]

Indeed...and that assumes that the controller requests high-power mode.  Otherwise we are limited to 100mA.  Looking at lsusb output, I don't think that the Poker requests 5 units.

I don't understand the obsession with bright LEDs these days.  Blue and white LEDs are offensive to the eyes.  To each their own, I guess.

This is probably the only reasonable option, unless it is somehow possible to modify the controller to request high-power.

Well, the modification that I was promoting was to utilize an ATMEGA32U4 or PIC24FJ256DA210 (Only USB MCU's I have on hand) to create a High Speed USB HID, and from that dedicate about 8 GPIO to a 8x8 Array doing PWM, with a A/D Pin wired to either a variable resistor, or do a switch/case w/ button statement to select variable brightnesses....

(I'm at work, so I'm OVER generalizing a lot of this for the sake of time..)

Other wise, only other way I could see doing anything, would be to replace the Poker MCU with our own custom controller. That's assuming it's not in a plastic blob, and that we can find a pin-compatible replacement. Does anyone have any close up pics of the Poker MCU?

[rknize]

Well, the modification that I was promoting was to utilize an ATMEGA32U4 or PIC24FJ256DA210 (Only USB MCU's I have on hand) to create a High Speed USB HID, and from that dedicate about 8 GPIO to a 8x8 Array doing PWM, with a A/D Pin wired to either a variable resistor, or do a switch/case w/ button statement to select variable brightnesses....

That would be quite fancy!    You could do all kinds of interesting lighting effects if you dedicate an MCU to it.  

The controller is a Holtek HT82K94E:

http://www.holtek.com/english/docum/computer/82k94x.htm

[keebler64]

That would be quite fancy!    You could do all kinds of interesting lighting effects if you dedicate an MCU to it.  

The controller is a Holtek HT82K94E:

http://www.holtek.com/english/docum/computer/82k94x.htm

Do we have a picture of the actual chip on-board? I want to see what kind of package it's in.

[mkawa]

i don't care about leds, but i would like to be able to reprogram the thing..

could we swap these for the a pin compat butnflashable variant?

[mkawa]

i believe it's an ssop but i'll check when i get home

edit: confirmed, it's the SSOP package. it's also about 1mm away from the edge of the board, so it's going to be difficult to fit anything else in there.

[metafour]

Anyway, if anyone needs these boards soldered, I'll offer services of $5 per board, you supply the parts and shipping both ways. I can do a board in 10 minutes or less. I have an oven and hot air system. I can do a 1 day turn-around.

With 61 switches that's roughly 10 seconds a switch. How do you achieve this? Does the oven and hot air system do something to significantly impact the time it takes?

I'm not doubting you at all I'm just curious and unfamiliar with electronic soldering.

[keebler64]

i believe it's an ssop but i'll check when i get home

It might be kinda tricky finding a user-programmable-pin-compatible chip, however, I've gotten lucky before.

If someone would be willing to offer up a pcb for testing, I see about modding an MCU onto it, and you can even have the board back. I just want to do it for the thrill of the challenge.

But really, what would be better than a Poker DIY, would be a Geekhack DIY that had a Pinout on the PCB for our own MCU. Hell, Soarer's Teensy Program loaded into an ATMEGA32U4 would be perfect, and there'd still be enough GPIO for various other mods.  It would save a lot of work on the programming side. Failing that, I can probably desolder the Holtek and build a crossover interface to our MCU of choice. It's not THAT hard.

[keebler64]

With 61 switches that's roughly 10 seconds a switch. How do you achieve this? Does the oven and hot air system do something to significantly impact the time it takes?

I'm not doubting you at all I'm just curious and unfamiliar with electronic soldering.

Even if I just used a soldering iron. It only takes a few seconds per switch. Now, DESOLDERING, that takes a bit longer to clean each lead/contact/pin/pad, without damaging anything...

[alaricljs]

But really, what would be better than a Poker DIY, would be a Geekhack DIY that had a Pinout on the PCB for our own MCU. Hell, Soarer's Teensy Program loaded into an ATMEGA32U4 would be perfect, and there'd still be enough GPIO for various other mods.  It would save a lot of work on the programming side. Failing that, I can probably desolder the Holtek and build a crossover interface to our MCU of choice. It's not THAT hard.

Been there done that, sorta... Phantom had a 'socket' for a teensy on it.  We've been discussing a new one here and on-board MCU is definitely an interest.

[popol]

I don't have any soldering skill nor tools.
Does aluminium plate mounted Poker exists?

[CuteVoodooDoll]

I still dont get how the plate will solve the flimsiness of the pcb, where is it supposed to be anchored???

[alaricljs]

Since the plate is attached to all the switches it would work similarly to an anti-sway bar or the stabilizers on your keyboard.  Press one switch down and that pressure gets distributed into the plate and across all the switches and into the PCB.  Will it be just like a filco where the plate is what's mounted to the case?  No, but I bet you'd have a hard time telling the difference.

[keebler64]

Since the plate is attached to all the switches it would work similarly to an anti-sway bar or the stabilizers on your keyboard.  Press one switch down and that pressure gets distributed into the plate and across all the switches and into the PCB.  Will it be just like a filco where the plate is what's mounted to the case?  No, but I bet you'd have a hard time telling the difference.

Where you might have an issue would be if the key switches do not snap in firmly across the board. My NEC was platemounted to the PCB and to the case, however, once I remove the rivets, it was noticeably more flexible due to the keys popping out of the plate. Now, it was still pretty damn firm without the rivets, but I could see situations like that being an issue. But I don't see the Cherry MX Switches popping out easily if they're also soldered to the board and there is enough plastic grabbing the plate.

[rknize]

The plate would work better if the top and bottom were flanged downward.  I know space is tight, but this would give the Poker the rigidity it needs.

[scriz]

$200 and i have to put it together myself? Hrm..

[Wibox]

Have a couple more questions ... all of my questions grouped here for covenience:

The plate looks like it's for the pure, any word on that?
Can we just buy plates?
Can we just buy PCBs?
Can we just buy those cherry keycaps?
Can we just buy those aluminium trays?
Are these sets limited in quantity?
Is there a cut off date for ordering?
Is there any estimates on first shipment dates?

Apologies if it's too soon to be asking, just curious! Thanks!

[tsangan]

Have a couple more questions ... all of my questions grouped here for covenience:

The plate looks like it's for the pure, any word on that? Nothing yet
Can we just buy plates? Not sure, pretty sure yes
Can we just buy PCBs? No
Can we just buy those cherry keycaps? Not in this GB
Can we just buy those aluminium trays? Not in this GB
Are these sets limited in quantity? No
Is there a cut off date for ordering? Nothing yet
Is there any estimates on first shipment dates? Nothing yet

Apologies if it's too soon to be asking, just curious! Thanks!

^that