GeekHack: Pistol and Rifle - General Discussion and Picture Thread

[BucklingSpring]

@VesperSAINT, CZ guns are awesome. I'm looking at CZ Rami and CZ Duty - can't decide which one.

@BucklingSpring, that's a pretty nice grouping 

Thanks :-)

I also have a CZ 75 SP01 shadow and love it. It got a decent accuracy and very very very reliable for the price.

But for accuracy, I never shot any hand gun better than my 686 Comp. This revolver is made for accuracy and it's very easy to do well with it.

[BucklingSpring]

Nice wheel gun... a nice guy let me shoot his S&W 686 revolver (first time)  at the range last week with an aimpoint on it and it was a blast. I never gave revolvers a second look before but after shooting one I might look into getting one possibly.

Thanks. This one was not cheap but I really like it.
And I'm old school. So had to have one of those.

[jpm804]

@VesperSAINT, CZ guns are awesome. I'm looking at CZ Rami and CZ Duty - can't decide which one.

@BucklingSpring, that's a pretty nice grouping 

Thanks :-)

I also have a CZ 75 SP01 shadow and love it. It got a decent accuracy and very very very reliable for the price.

But for accuracy, I never shot any hand gun better than my 686 Comp. This revolver is made for accuracy and it's very easy to do well with it.

Man I didnt realize we had so many CZ owners on this forum....

[VesperSAINT]

@VesperSAINT, CZ guns are awesome. I'm looking at CZ Rami and CZ Duty - can't decide which one.

@BucklingSpring, that's a pretty nice grouping 

Thanks :-)

I also have a CZ 75 SP01 shadow and love it. It got a decent accuracy and very very very reliable for the price.

But for accuracy, I never shot any hand gun better than my 686 Comp. This revolver is made for accuracy and it's very easy to do well with it.

Man I didnt realize we had so many CZ owners on this forum....

Seriously.. I live in Florida, and it seems like no one ****ing owns CZ's here. I think I'm the only person who freaking owns one in this state. Lol! I think this is the first time I've been in a conversation with so many people that own CZ's and appreciates them like I do... This is wonderful. CZ FTW! Sorry for the CZ fandom... I enjoy the exclusiveness of the CZ, but sometimes you just need someone to empathize with you on the beauty of these things. Unfortunately, that's hard to come by when the world has been taken over by polymer framed striker fire pistols (not that there's anything wrong with them).

[BucklingSpring]

Seriously.. I live in Florida, and it seems like no one ****ing owns CZ's here. I think I'm the only person who freaking owns one in this state.

You live in Glock land :-)

Technically, there is more CZ in FL than you think since CZ owns Dan Wesson.

[mmmty]

I'm in FL so that makes 2 of us But every time I go to the range the guy who checks my gun always says "CZ! nice gun...". They have hundreds of guns on display but only 4-5 CZs.

JPM is a glock head   but he also has many other pistols & rifles.

[jpm804]

Seriously.. I live in Florida, and it seems like no one ****ing owns CZ's here. I think I'm the only person who freaking owns one in this state. Lol! I think this is the first time I've been in a conversation with so many people that own CZ's and appreciates them like I do... This is wonderful. CZ FTW! Sorry for the CZ fandom... I enjoy the exclusiveness of the CZ, but sometimes you just need someone to empathize with you on the beauty of these things. Unfortunately, that's hard to come by when the world has been taken over by polymer framed striker fire pistols (not that there's anything wrong with them).

In cali, CZ's are getting hot and hard to find.. I guess everyone is realizing how good they are and the value for an all metal frame. Sucks is we cant get all the CZ model since we have a stupid list which says which guns we can buy .... boooo 

I'm in FL so that makes 2 of us But every time I go to the range the guy who checks my gun always says "CZ! nice gun...". They have hundreds of guns on display but only 4-5 CZs.

JPM is a glock head   but he also has many other pistols & rifles.

I would say I am more a hydra with many different heads...  hahaha 

Love my: Glocks, Sigs and CZ's..... like keyboards I like having alot of choices and variaty...

Right now more into Rifles.... been going crazy with AK's....

This is my next pick up,,, technically its a pistol, closest I will get to a SBR in my state. Totally impratical since it has no stock but something I want to try..




Also assembled my first AR lower... very fun and easier than I thought, but defintely would be made easier with the right tools.



 

[mmmty]

So JPM is making his own guns now 

I went to take a look at CZ Duty again today and they had a S&W 686 in the next display case. It was nice and shiny. But it was late and I was in a hurry so I didn't ask see it.

[jdcarpe]

I went into the sporting goods store on Thursday, and I saw one of these in the case. What has been seen, cannot be unseen. Only $2499.99

[mmmty]

HK and their crazy prices. .45 w/ threaded barrel is nice though. But for the price I'd rather get a Wilson Combat.

[VesperSAINT]

HK and their crazy prices. .45 w/ threaded barrel is nice though. But for the price I'd rather get a Wilson Combat.

Wilson Combat... talking about crazy prices... Lol!

[swagpiratex]

I'm more of a Les Baer fan...

[VesperSAINT]

I'm more of a Les Baer fan...

It's unfortunate that I'm too broke to own a high quality 1911 or even be able to shoot .45 ACP on a regular basis   UGH... makes me so sad... but my CZ helps soothe that pain.

[jpm804]

I went into the sporting goods store on Thursday, and I saw one of these in the case. What has been seen, cannot be unseen. Only $2499.99

Yummmy MK23 ... I will raise you a FNP45 Tactical

So JPM is making his own guns now 

That will not be true until I try to "build" my first AK ... AR's are like legos for grown ups  )

It's unfortunate that I'm too broke to own a high quality 1911 or even be able to shoot .45 ACP on a regular basis   UGH... makes me so sad... but my CZ helps soothe that pain.

I want a nice 1911 .... probably too rich for my blood for the likes of a wilson, Les, or nighthawk... But I have my eyes set on getting a nice Springfield TRP if I can.

[mmmty]

I like Springfield TRP for a 1911 too - more affordable option compared to the other ones. But I also like Sig 220 .45 ACP. Can't decide which one I like better. One is full size w/ threaded barrel. The other one is compact with nice shiny stainless steel.

[VesperSAINT]

I want a nice 1911 .... probably too rich for my blood for the likes of a wilson, Les, or nighthawk... But I have my eyes set on getting a nice Springfield TRP if I can.

I like Springfield TRP for a 1911 too - more affordable option compared to the other ones. But I also like Sig 220 .45 ACP. Can't decide which one I like better. One is full size w/ threaded barrel. The other one is compact with nice shiny stainless steel.

Holy ****.. you guys think exactly as I do... I was going to say that I would also rather settle with a Springfield TRP or Sig 220. They are great value and have the track record to back it up. It's nice to finally meet people who have similar taste in guns as I do. Lol!

On another note, I just received a 1000 round bulk box of Magtech 9mm today ~ Shooters' gold ~ Sharing with my bro

[jpm804]

I like Springfield TRP for a 1911 too - more affordable option compared to the other ones. But I also like Sig 220 .45 ACP. Can't decide which one I like better. One is full size w/ threaded barrel. The other one is compact with nice shiny stainless steel.

I dont think you can go wrong with both...both are damn nice.

I like the more "tacticool" version in the combat.... .. what can I say I am a fanboy of FDE

Holy ****.. you guys think exactly as I do... I was going to say that I would also rather settle with a Springfield TRP or Sig 220. They are great value and have the track record to back it up. It's nice to finally meet people who have similar taste in guns as I do. Lol!

On another note, I just received a 1000 round bulk box of Magtech 9mm today ~ Shooters' gold ~ Sharing with my bro

I was going to say the same thing when everyone started showing their CZ's... would love a TRP full rail




But probably settle for a half or no rail version..

Versper mind me asking how much you paid for that 1K rounds?

[poopmat]

the trp is quite nice the professional is even better the tightest custom I've ever felt better than any Wilson, Baer or nighthawk. I currently manage a gun store so I see a lot of stuff. From supergrade  Wilson's to high points. Sig makes a nice gun well made reliable etc... Personally if I needed a gun based on reliability I'd get a glock  gen 3 its pretty near indestructible its also made with like 35 parts that are interchangeable between models. Beretta would be my last choice I'd rather have a taurus . And kimbers  aren't my fave either their customer service blows as does Beretta . I carry a seecamp in 32 its reliable and to be honest I live in the burbs
my go to gun for home defence is a USP 9mm I love my hk but I don't really recommend them though cause they are a bit cost prohibitive  . Just my 2cts

[VesperSAINT]

Versper mind me asking how much you paid for that 1K rounds?

$217 shipped to front door. Keep in mind that this is 9mm 115gr FMJ. Great thing about Magtech is, I believe, the shells are reload-able. Too bad I don't have the hardware to do so.

[jpm804]

the trp is quite nice the professional is even better the tightest custom I've ever felt better than any Wilson, Baer or nighthawk. I currently manage a gun store so I see a lot of stuff. From supergrade  Wilson's to high points. Sig makes a nice gun well made reliable etc... Personally if I needed a gun based on reliability I'd get a glock  gen 3 its pretty near indestructible its also made with like 35 parts that are interchangeable between models. Beretta would be my last choice I'd rather have a taurus . And kimbers  aren't my fave either their customer service blows as does Beretta . I carry a seecamp in 32 its reliable and to be honest I live in the burbs
my go to gun for home defence is a USP 9mm I love my hk but I don't really recommend them though cause they are a bit cost prohibitive  . Just my 2cts

Thanks Poopmat for the feedback... always nice to hear feedback from someone who gets to see the guns on an everyday basis and see what is good or not.

Also I would say you are so right about the glock.. I know some people knock it for its bad ergo and looks. But I personally love my glocks and they have been damn reliable for me. I have a G19 and G17... and looking to add a G34 soon to that collection.

Versper mind me asking how much you paid for that 1K rounds?

$217 shipped to front door. Keep in mind that this is 9mm 115gr FMJ. Great thing about Magtech is, I believe, the shells are reload-able. Too bad I don't have the hardware to do so.

Thanks for letting me know...

Just to let anyone know about this one site that has been having pretty good sales. They have fee shipping sometimes also when combined with ammo purchases makes it pretty affordable. Also good price on AR15 parts if your looking to build one.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/

[VesperSAINT]

Thanks for letting me know...

  Did I overpay???

[jpm804]

  Did I overpay???

No for Factory New Brass... that is what you are going to pay.

I usually buy reloads since I will be mostly plinking and dont care about reloading the brass..

I just bought some reloads at a gunshow this weekend for $249 for 1500 rds....

If you dont mind shooting reloads, this place has some decent prices:

http://www.freedommunitions.com/

[VesperSAINT]

  Did I overpay???

No for Factory New Brass... that is what you are going to pay.

I usually buy reloads since I will be mostly plinking and dont care about reloading the brass..

I just bought some reloads at a gunshow this weekend for $249 for 1500 rds....

If you dont mind shooting reloads, this place has some decent prices:

http://www.freedommunitions.com/

Ooo~ Thanks for the info. I'll have to do some research to see how my PCR will deal with reloads. Damn... $249 for 1500 rounds... that's like a $50 bux discount. That'd be really hard to turn down.

[jpm804]

Ooo~ Thanks for the info. I'll have to do some research to see how my PCR will deal with reloads. Damn... $249 for 1500 rounds... that's like a $50 bux discount. That'd be really hard to turn down.

If your PCR is anything like my SP01 and P01.. then it should be fine. My CZ's cycle them with no issues....but I have gone through 2K+ reloads from the same place so I trust their quality.

Every company which reloads will have their own performance differences... some load hotter than others.

[poopmat]

http://www.dansammo.com/
dans a great guy and he has pretty nice prices on ammo

also check out sportsmans guide

right now dan has some trade in glock 22 in 40 cal for 369.00
pretty good price
im not sure of mag cap but if you live in a free state it does not matter
40 is not my favorite caliber (too much recoil) by far but it is readily avail in most places
and these are gen 2-3 glocks

also jpm804 i notice you live in the bay area
how do you get around mag cap issues and the weird gun laws in california
i don't honestly think i could bring more than 2-3 guns i own now to cali

[poopmat]

also it just occurred to me that we are in a gun thread and no one has mentioned the best value in a firearm today.
where your mosins at boys???

[jpm804]

http://www.dansammo.com/
dans a great guy and he has pretty nice prices on ammo

also check out sportsmans guide

right now dan has some trade in glock 22 in 40 cal for 369.00
pretty good price
im not sure of mag cap but if you live in a free state it does not matter
40 is not my favorite caliber (too much recoil) by far but it is readily avail in most places
and these are gen 2-3 glocks

also jpm804 i notice you live in the bay area
how do you get around mag cap issues and the weird gun laws in california
i don't honestly think i could bring more than 2-3 guns i own now to cali

Yes I love sportsman also for ammo and other accessories... I should really breakdown and get a memebership there since they are always running specials for members.

Also you are right... the gun laws in Cali are ridicilous...most gun people and gun shops dont know all the laws in Cali... It can give you a headache. I would so move if not for my job and the great weather... hahahah

Here are just some of the crazy rules we must follow:

-We are limited to 10rds mags on our handguns and rifles
-10 day waiting periods for any firearms,
-no real chance for SBR or CCW.
-1 new handgun in 30days only...
-Bullet buttons ( magazine locks) on rifles with "evil features" like pistol grip, telescoping stock, flashider....
-a list that says which hanguns we can "own" and a list which says which rifles we "cant" own

poopmat - also just wondering if your shop ships to CA FFLS? i know every out of state shop has their own policies when it comes to CA... I wouldnt blame them with all the rules in place.

Also no mosins .... even though you are right on the best value including the ammo to shoot it. 

[poopmat]

ive shipped to ca
its a pain in the ass
but its doable
the bullet button is a bit much
the regulations in ca are pretty silly
they just make it harder for law abiding citizens to own guns
to my knowledge nfa guns are basically unavailable
and ccw is out of the question


pretty much all my guns with exception of a couple revolvers and 1911s are non cal legal
also you forgot to mention that all california guns must pass a drop test
so no modern colt single action replicas are allowed etc...
also dont all guns in ca require a safety as well
i went to college in sf/oakland
i know the weather is awesome
but ca is a bit fruity @ times

[poopmat]

just out of curiosity i looked the list up
this stuff is retarded
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

[jpm804]

ive shipped to ca
its a pain in the ass
but its doable
the bullet button is a bit much
the regulations in ca are pretty silly
they just make it harder for law abiding citizens to own guns
to my knowledge nfa guns are basically unavailable
and ccw is out of the question


pretty much all my guns with exception of a couple revolvers and 1911s are non cal legal
also you forgot to mention that all california guns must pass a drop test
so no modern colt single action replicas are allowed etc...
also dont all guns in ca require a safety as well
i went to college in sf/oakland
i know the weather is awesome
but ca is a bit fruity @ times

Not all handguns need a safety... for new handguns you need a loaded chamber indicator and magazine disconnect. Also you must pay CADOJ a fee to have your gun tested "drop test" and other "safety features" to get it on the list. Also you must keep paying that fee yearly or else the gun will fall "off roster" and not be available for sale to the public.

alot of older guns are grandfathered in like Glock Gen 3's which dont have those "safety features" but we cant get Gen 4's since Glock wont pay for the testing and they dont have those Safety features.

Also same gun, different color... nope not gonna pass.. it's crazy and makes me mad sometimes   

But we californians push through and find ways to get the guns we want... Lately we have shops that will do "SSE" single shot exceptions ... where you add a 10 inch barrel and single shot magazine sled...register it and then you can legally change it back to normal configuration the minute you leave the shop...basically gets you guns you normally would not get before.. hard part is shops need to make the kits which arent cheap so they charge a premium.

[jpm804]

just out of curiosity i looked the list up
this stuff is retarded
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

Tell me about it...most non logical list ever. 

Basically says californians cant handle handguns and "california" tells us which guns are safe enough for us to use so we wont accidently shoot ourselves.

[poopmat]

so how much does a sse set up cost??
it looks kinda silly
but if it works to get by the bs rules do it
pretty sure my calico would never be allowed
even though its pre awb

[jpm804]

so how much does a sse set up cost??
it looks kinda silly
but if it works to get by the bs rules do it
pretty sure my calico would never be allowed
even though its pre awb

Since its not a regulated service, its a shop by shop basis. The Gun shop i go to charges $35 dollars extra, but it can range from $35 - $75 depending on the shop.

You give back the "SSE kit" so basically your renting it for 10 days,,,,,, complicated and stupid, but its our way to say FU to that List... hahahaha

[poopmat]

what do transfers cost??

[BucklingSpring]

But I have my eyes set on getting a nice Springfield TRP if I can.

So do I. Actually not just eyes... I ordered a spanking new SA TRP Stainless couple of weeks ago.
Unfortunately I have no ETA but the distributor said it may be this year... (Or not... Big sigh)

Dunno why Springfield Armory ships so few.

[Rafen]

Went to the shop today just looking around and now I think that I am going to purchase another gun just not sure which one I want to get. Its between the Smith and Wesson M&P or Sig Sauer P226. The M&P is a lot cheaper and I have heard great things about it. But I have always wanted a Sig I just don't want to spend that kind of money on a gun. Idk hopefully I can decide before the weekend because I can get the M&P on sale for $500 where the Sig is $949.

[poopmat]

nothing wrong with the m&p the only issue ui have with them is the weird trigger reset
its not tactile i have heard that this can be trained or fixed with a new trigger kit

[jpm804]

what do transfers cost??

Transfers cost anywhere between $60 - $100 depends on the shot since its not regulated also... but that includes usually the $25 CADOJ DROS fee to do background check.

But I have my eyes set on getting a nice Springfield TRP if I can.

So do I. Actually not just eyes... I ordered a spanking new SA TRP Stainless couple of weeks ago.
Unfortunately I have no ETA but the distributor said it may be this year... (Or not... Big sigh)

Dunno why Springfield Armory ships so few.

Buckling I am jealous of you now... I just shot my friends TRP Stainless tonight and I was in love. First time I was shooting a 45 and it was amazingly controllable. I liked .45 way better than .40 for personal preference.. Probably going to be my next gun if I can find one TRP Operator.... Like you found out not an easy find lately.

nothing wrong with the m&p the only issue ui have with them is the weird trigger reset
its not tactile i have heard that this can be trained or fixed with a new trigger kit

Raefen - I dont think you can go wrong with a M&P9 or Sig P226... but defintely two differrent guns which I dont like to compare. Just depends if you want a polymer striker fired gun versus a metal DA/SA gun. The Sig is defintely cost prohibative, but try to see if you can find one used. I found a hardly used P226 german frame for $600... I thought that was a deal or maybe a CPO Sig P226 which usually go for $599 and have some warranty on it.

Also with the M&P9 Poopmat is correct in that the trigger rest is something some people dont like.. I heard they will soon replace the trigger with the one on the M&P Shield ( want this one also) which now has an audible/tactile trigger rest.

Too bad your not near me and I would let you shoot my P226 if you hadnt shot one before to see if you liked it..

[poopmat]

the one thing about the 226 is its quite versatile
i have a 226 that i bought in .22lr
i also have a caliber x change  kit so that it shoots 9mm
they also make these kits in 357sig and 40 cal
so for a minimal expense you can get several calibers in one gun
personally id look for a used 226 over the m&p for the cost of the m&p there are alot of good options on the market
the guns aren't really comparable
id group the m&p with glocks, walthers and maybe the sig 250 - $550 retail
sig 226 is more comparable to hk usp or nice cz75 - $7-900 Retail
really 2 different animals if its a first gun id look @ some of the more inexpensive options and see if you like it
you can always sell it later
id look @ used guns, like a a smith 6906 police trade in glock or a new taurus g2, ruger sr9 etc... id look for a good value gun for my first and then start looking for a the other guns you would eventually like
the internet is your friend
http://summitgunbroker.com/
he has great prices on used stuff

[Internetlad]

I live in wyoming, which is basically gun country. Despite that growing up, I never much cared for firearms other than having an airgun as a kid and target practice with a .22 rifle. I've only shot a larger cartridge once, and I don't have a clue about the caliber.

I'd like to get into it, and I know there are a couple of places around where I live that do gun related stuff, but there are a couple things i'm worried about.

Firstly i'm wary that since I don't have much experience, a lot of people will just consider me another CoD nerd who thinks gunz r kewl and treat me with disdain.

Second is cash. Between being a father of two that holds a job with only moderate pay and no benifits, we don't have a lot of disposable income. Despite this I have fairly high product standards, and am rarely happy with the cheapest item I can find, and don't mind paying for something of higher quality (IE mech keyboards) if it is actually worth the increase and will last.

[jpm804]

I live in wyoming, which is basically gun country. Despite that growing up, I never much cared for firearms other than having an airgun as a kid and target practice with a .22 rifle. I've only shot a larger cartridge once, and I don't have a clue about the caliber.

I'd like to get into it, and I know there are a couple of places around where I live that do gun related stuff, but there are a couple things i'm worried about.

Firstly i'm wary that since I don't have much experience, a lot of people will just consider me another CoD nerd who thinks gunz r kewl and treat me with disdain.

Second is cash. Between being a father of two that holds a job with only moderate pay and no benifits, we don't have a lot of disposable income. Despite this I have fairly high product standards, and am rarely happy with the cheapest item I can find, and don't mind paying for something of higher quality (IE mech keyboards) if it is actually worth the increase and will last.

We all had to start with somewhere.... for me I just started this year and have learned alot from others (online and real life) from just absorbing all the information and keep trying to learn more.

If you are getting into shooting sports, here is just some of my tips..( disclaimer just my personal opinions):

- Tons of information online, just sort through the good and the bad and form your own opinion. ( sorry no specific links since there lieterally tons of info out there)
- Just like GeekHack find a nice forum which you can gain information or knowledge. Local forums are nice since you can find people to shoot with but also general forums are good also.
- YouTube videos - ask much as I dont like to suggest this since there is so much bad and good stuff,,,, I find it a good place to gather information, you just have to sort out the good and the bad.
- Take a local Handgun safety class or training class if available in your area.
- See if you know anyone will to take you out and show you the ropes of shooting.
- Also if you havent handled a higher caliber 9mm, .40, .45 etc..Go to range and try out rentals if they have them to just a get a feel. nice way to try things out without committing to buy anything.

- If you are on a tight budget then why not stay with .22 caliber to get comfortable, they have plenty of well priced .22 caliber handguns ( with similar controls to larger caliber handguns) which you can use to train and pracitice on. Also. 22 caliber ammo is pretty cheap which means more practice time. Dont let anyone tell you small caliber firearms are worthless and you need to shoot a .45 to be a man.. I say the more trigger time with any caliber you can afford is worth more than shooting just higher caliber.

Sorry for the long post, but hope this helps a bit.

[BucklingSpring]

Firstly i'm wary that since I don't have much experience, a lot of people will just consider me another CoD nerd who thinks gunz r kewl and treat me with disdain.

I used to work a lot in the States. During a trip to Atlanta, my colleagues brought me to a shooting range and gave me the opportunity to try their weapons. I really enjoyed it and wanted to do more. After that, I went by myself. I was surprised how easy it is to get in, even with a foreign passport.  The people at the ranges were always very nice. I got all kinds of good advices to improve my shooting. Not a single trace of disrespect toward me for being a beginner.

Don't worry about disdain.

[Internetlad]

Thanks guys, that gives me some confidence in trying this out.

A couple questions.


A) Regarding the unit itself-Is it worth it buying a brand new pistol if i'm looking at getting into the sport? What are some beginner freindly brands/models? Would it be worth it looking for something military surplus? Are there any hard-and-fast "rules" when looking to buy a firearm (IE. be wary of "reconditioned" firearms, never buy online, never buy firearms manufactured in country X)

B) What online forums/repositories would you guys recommend? Is it worth subscribing to any shooting magazines/blog/newsletters? I know of /k/ on the chan's, but I never go there anymore, and everybody seems to be fairly biased, might not be the best place to start lol.

You've been great help thus far. Thanks again.

[laffindude]

I like SIGforum, the firing line and rimfire central for general firearm forums. Don't over think it. Buy a quality firearm in a cheap to shoot caliber, take a firearm safety course, and go shoot. Quality firearms will last a life time. Don't worry about spending a few hundred over your budget. Ammo will cost several times the weapon over it's usable life.

Buying used is fine, unless you have to have a new one. Many guns are safe queens. You can also find many police trade-ins. Those are good value, as they're usually carried a lot, shot very little. Wear is mostly cosmetics. Go look at what style of pistol you want and pick a few, then post back. More expensive is not always better. Like that Mk23 people are drooling over higher up in the page, it is a pretty meh gun to shoot as it has worse ergonomics than a brick. USP45 Tactical is a much more usable. Likewise, cheaper is not always junk. Star Ultrastar is one of my favorite pistols.

[Internetlad]

I'll have to check out those forums, thanks for the advice.

As far as style, i'm not that picky. I do like the aethetics of the Beretta 92FS for some reason, but I know they're expensive. I've heard that the Ruger MKII/MKIII are good beginner pistols for affordability and durability.

The tip for the police trade-ins might be good advice, i'll have to see if there is anything like that in the area.

[poopmat]

alo gunbroker or gunsamerica are good ways to get guns @ a good price
also check out cdnn and cheaper than dirt
also grabagun has pretty decent prices

as an aside i hate the 92fs its expensive and berettas cust service is lacking to say the least
id get the taurus 92 if i had to have a pistol in that style
lifetime warranty and an improved safety

also keep in mind that there is no one gun that can do all
some guns are great for ccw but nothing else
other guns are great @ the range but a bear to carry
if ur gonna punch holes in paper a .22 is the cheapest way to shoot and will allow you to focus on the fundamentals of shooting stance, sight picture etc...
that said if the gun will also double as a home defense gun id look into a inexpensive reliable semi auto (ruger taurus etc...) or a inexpensive revolver in 38 or 357
a ruger sp101 comes to mind
personally id get a home defense gun and a plinker
another thing is you have to figure you will spend a min of 300 per gun for whatever purpose you have that is the line between crap and quality $300.00
under 300 you have hipont,jennings etc... all crap and questionable @ best

[jdcarpe]

I love my Beretta 92FS. I have owned it since 1997, fired a few thousand rounds through it, and I have never experienced a stoppage. Not once. I can't say the same for the Glocks I have owned over the years. So, for me at least, customer service isn't an issue, since I've never had a problem. For me, my Beretta puts lead on target with excellent accuracy and 100% reliability.

For some reason, I just prefer metal frames to polymer ones. I also own a Smith & Wesson 5906. And a Sig Sauer P226 is next on my list of handgun purchases.

If you want to start out with a .22LR pistol, the Ruger MkII/MkIII would make a fine choice. I prefer the classic lines over the 22/45 models. But don't be afraid to go right into shooting with a 9mm. The recoil is light, and I find that almost all new shooters can handle it with no problems whatsoever. Plus 9mm has the advantage of being cheaper to buy, so you can purchase more and therefore practice more.

[poopmat]

i own a beretta jetfire myself im not saying that the 92 is a pos
i just have had the misfortune of dealing with beretta to fix a out of warrenty 92fs and 150$ later the gun worked but my wallet was much lighter
also i kinda dont like the alum frame but thats just personal preference
the taurus has a rock solid unconditional lifetime transferable warranty the beretta does not.
that is my reasoning.
also i have never had an issue with a glock ive owned ever.
same for my hk usp no prob ever!!!
sigs can be a bit temperamental @ times my 226 had issues till it got broken in but now it works flawlessly
thats just my experience

[Internetlad]

I wasn't familiar with the brand Taurus, and in fact I was disregarding it as a "lesser" brand. Is it sort of the XFX of the firearms world? Mediocre quality but lifetime support so why not?

Does the Lifetime warranty transfer to the new owner if the gun is sold?

And I know that everybody seems to have mixed opinions on 9mm, with the main gripes being less stopping power than .45 and the ammo is pretty much the same cost. Opinions? (inb4 flame war)

And I know the nerds at /k/ seemed to hate 9mm, and Beretta, I figured it was mostly unfounded nerd rage.

[poopmat]

look i know 9mm is weaker than .45
that said i shoot alot and 9mm is significantly cheaper than 45acp
and frankly anyone who can take a couple of rounds of 9mm and keep going is ****ing superman and you need to run

i only own one taurus a 24/7 oss in 45 acp i paid 300$ for it on clearance from a wholesaler
that gun has never failed to feed fire etc and is pretty accurate too
some folks have bad experiences with taurus because they can be hit and miss quality wise
i have not so i can only say good things
and yes the warranty follows the gun not the owner

guns are like computer parts i will buy the **** out of xfx but you couldn't pay me to buy a msi card
everyone has what they like and what they dont
taurus and ruger are both considered lower tier guns but they both stand behind their product to the end
ruger will at times just replace your gun with a new one instead of fixing it
and that warranty covers guns made in from rugers inception to the present
thats awesome cust service in my opinion


oh and another great starting out gun thats really reasonably priced is the bersa thunder 380
a great value and a really reliable piece of kit