Another quiet mechanical keyboard thread

[Resaebiunne]

So, I've gotten some complaints recently about my keyboard at work, and I definitely want to find something quieter.

I'm using a Dell AT101W in place of the cheap microsoft rubber dome they gave me.  At home I used an IBM Model M (on my desktop).  Since I tend to type fast and bottom out the keys, both are actually quite loud.  The AT101W especially has quite a thwack to it.  

Having read some of the threads here on the forum, it seems scissor switches may be the way to go, but personally the whole reason for having a good keyboard such as AT101w or Model M is for the key tactility.  Scissor switches belong on laptops, especially if they are chiclet style.  So... here I am.

I'm thinking of the Rosewill RK9000 with the MX Browns, especially cuz it's on sale at Newegg, but I'm not convinced it's going to be any quieter than the At101W, especially given my typing style.  My next thought is the Realforce 87u silent, but it's $310, and that's just too much for a keyboard that I'll leave at work.  I don't want to risk it getting stolen.  Ideally I'd spend ~$100, but I'm flexible.  Thoughts?

[cleeoo]

The normal Topre keyboards aren't too loud. Or I don't think so either, and I bottom out when I type too. I haven't used the silent one so I'm not too sure what the difference is in the noise levels. If leaving it at work is a problem, you could always get a TKL or a HHKB2 and take it to and from work, if that's an option? I am guessing there is no chance of you being able to leave it in a drawer or cupboard at your desk, out of sight when you're not at work (although I guess that's not that much more secure)? Or locking it somewhere?

The alternative is probably a MX keyboard with o-rings?

[WRXChris]

I would recommend a cherry mx board (browns or clears) with o-rings.  It sounds like you are a heavy typist, so you may want to consider an mx clear board (55g springs, browns are 45g), but they are getting hard to find new these days.  If you aren't so concerned with aesthetics you could get a refurbished mx clear g80 for ~$45 shipped from ebay:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cherry-Mechanical-PS2-Keyboard-MX-Clear-Touchpad-Programmable-N-Key-Rollover-G80-/221047052085?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item33776e5735#ht_3524wt_966

[nullstring]

I don't know how loud the Alps are, but I can rank some of the cherries based on my own observations:

1. Blues: 5
2. Browns: 3
3. Reds: 2.5
4. Average Rubber Dome: 2

I would say that MX browns are about 50% louder than rubber dome.

[fohat.digs]

O-rings and a soft pad between the board and the desk will help a lot. Without mods, Cherry switches will not be significantly quieter than Alps.

Flossing the Model M will cut out a lot of the higher resonances so that the sound does not carry as far.

[Resaebiunne]

I don't know how loud the Alps are, but I can rank some of the cherries based on my own observations:

1. Blues: 5
2. Browns: 3
3. Reds: 2.5
4. Average Rubber Dome: 2

I would say that MX browns are about 50% louder than rubber dome.

In that case, the browns might not be so bad.  I switched out my at101w here at work and its definitely quieter, but the board is just too light and mushy, ick.

[Matias]

We're releasing a quiet version of the Tactile Pro in about a month.  It uses a new switch that we've been developing for over 2 years.  It's quieter than any of the Cherry switches, and more tactile.

If you can wait, it should solve your problem.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Is this new Tactile Pro going to be available in Windows layout?

I could forgive the garish case if I can just have all 105 ISO keys where IBM and Microsoft intended ;-) (AutoHotkey does NOT work inside remote access software, for starters.)

[Resaebiunne]

Hm, yeap, "Windows" layout is preferred, but I can forgive the lack of a Windows key.  The extra command and apple keys would get irritating quickly.

[dorkvader]

I don't know how loud the Alps are, but I can rank some of the cherries based on my own observations:

1. Blues: 5
2. Browns: 3
3. Reds: 2.5
4. Average Rubber Dome: 2

I would say that MX browns are about 50% louder than rubber dome.

In my experience, browns are pretty quiet, if you don't bottom out. I still have yet to try o rings, though.

[Matias]

Is this new Tactile Pro going to be available in Windows layout?

I could forgive the garish case if I can just have all 105 ISO keys where IBM and Microsoft intended ;-) (AutoHotkey does NOT work inside remote access software, for starters.)

Yes, we're doing a Windows version -- no AutoHotkey required.  The case on the PC one is black.  I don't think you'll find it garish.  :-)

[Matias]

Just a suggestion: it must be very expensive (and scary) to commit to buy hundreds of thousands of switches from the factory.  If the switch you are developing is Alps based you may want to offer to sell these switches on the side for hobbyists to solder into their old Alps based boards.

You probably won't sell a ton but if you can sell a few thousand - well - that's a few thousand off the contract.

Yes, we'll be selling them both in small and large quantities, to whoever wants to buy them.  We probably won't make a lot of money selling switches, but we want this switch to catch on, so we're making it as available as possible.

Fuhua did a lousy job marketing "Fukka" Alps switches for things they were better suited for than Cherrys, so Cherry "won" by default.  You can't win the game if you don't even show up.

The new switch is made from better materials than the old Fukkas and has a longer operating life.  We're already past 25 million actuations, and expect it to go at least as high as the 50 million actuations that Cherrys are rated for.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Fukka switches do have a disadvantage: ALPS switches are noisy. That you have rectified this is a big advantage.

Now we just have to guess the colour of the sliders in the new switch (is this a Simplified ALPS Type V, or is it a complicated switch?)

So far, we've had cream, orange, pink, white and black.

Someone suggested purple for a new Cherry switch, which is still a free colour at the moment. I don't think maroon ever got used for anything either; teal is nice but it's been used for some rare Cherry MX switches before.

[Matias]

Fukka switches do have a disadvantage: ALPS switches are noisy. That you have rectified this is a big advantage.

Yes, that was the plan.  :-)

Now we just have to guess the colour of the sliders in the new switch (is this a Simplified ALPS Type V, or is it a complicated switch?)

No need to guess.  They are bright orange.  Internal structure is similar to the switches on the Apple Extended Keyboard II, but more tactile and quieter.

[FoxWolf1]

Definitely liking the idea of these new ALPS-style switches so far. How do they compare to black StrongMan switches (type III)?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Wait, I thought the EKII was damped? Those don't sound damped to me.

[rknize]

OP: I was pretty much in the same boat as you.  The Model M is my favorite by far, but too noisy for the home office.  At work, I made it tolerable to my coworkers by doing a grease mod.  I found the browns to be a decent compromise, but not exactly quiet.  With o-rings, browns feel much like a scissor switch and are fairly quiet.

[TexasFlood]

I have boards with Fukka Alps switches and they're crazy loud.  But I want to believe, I really do...

Looks like mine are type II "XM" simplified yype II alps and read much better things about type I which I don't have.

[thegunner100]

I'll have to agree with buying a HHKB and just taking it to work

Topres are much quieter than MX keyboards, even when you bottom out. THe other choice, as mentioned earlier, would be to buy a mx brown keyboard and get some 40A o-rings to silence them.

[Grimey]

Wait, I thought the EKII was damped? Those don't sound damped to me.

The EKII I harvested switches from is more silent than the one in that video.  I placed the switches in a Dell AT101W to use in at my new workspace, but I will have to see if I can get used to the switches as they are fairly heavy.

[Matias]

Definitely liking the idea of these new ALPS-style switches so far. How do they compare to black StrongMan switches (type III)?

The Black StrongMan switches feel great.

Ours are lighter, more tactile, and dampened to make them quieter.

[Matias]

[video=youtube;VQOA0PtIXYY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQOA0PtIXYY&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL952328BC009E9E4D[/video]

How much more quiet than this?

Not sure why that one is so loud.  Maybe it's been harvested, or it could be that it wasn't miked properly.  Who knows.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Rubber dampers like in the EKII?

I don't know what BBC Micro Type I switches have, but the bottoming out impact is totally silent. However, the return sound is so loud that overall it's worse, because the keystroke sounds lag behind your typing

I've never used an EK or EKII – for me the issue with the AT101W isn't the sound, but the stiff, gungy feel compared to the fluid, clean strokes of the Fukkas in the TP3 and complicated blues. I've vaguely used some old Apple boards with tactile ALPS (Macintosh 128K and that other one) and those felt perfect.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Not sure why that one is so loud.  Maybe it's been harvested, or it could be that it wasn't miked properly.  Who knows.

All the EKII videos sound like that, i.e. glorious.

[Matias]

I have boards with Fukka Alps switches and they're crazy loud.  But I want to believe, I really do...

Looks like mine are type II "XM" simplified yype II alps and read much better things about type I which I don't have.

Yes, we tried the XM switches and didn't like them.  That's why we did our own.  That and the fear that Fuhua would stop making Fukka switches, which they now have -- early this year they stopped.

Oh, I forgot to mention, we've also eliminated the residual ping sound that Fukkas make when you hit them hard.  Lots of people hated that sound.

[Matias]

Topres are much quieter than MX keyboards, even when you bottom out. THe other choice, as mentioned earlier, would be to buy a mx brown keyboard and get some 40A o-rings to silence them.

The o-rings just silence the downstroke.  They're still noisy on the upstroke.

Sorry to nit-pick, but I've been dealing with this stuff for the past 2 years.

[Matias]

Rubber dampers like in the EKII?

Yes, they have the same basic design, with a few improvements.

I don't know what BBC Micro Type I switches have, but the bottoming out impact is totally silent. However, the return sound is so loud that overall it's worse, because the keystroke sounds lag behind your typing

You'll get the same delayed feedback with o-rings on Cherrys, because they're not dampened on the upstroke.

I've never used an EK or EKII – for me the issue with the AT101W isn't the sound, but the stiff, gungy feel compared to the fluid, clean strokes of the Fukkas in the TP3 and complicated blues. I've vaguely used some old Apple boards with tactile ALPS (Macintosh 128K and that other one) and those felt perfect.

It's a funny thing... I have a few AEKII boards and they don't all feel the same.  I don't know if it's because they're old, or if they didn't have strict enough QC standards.  Some definitely feel better than others.

[TexasFlood]

They are bright orange.  Internal structure is similar to the switches on the Apple Extended Keyboard II, but more tactile and quieter.

If so, should also be similar to the SGI Granite keyboards I used years ago and liked quite well.  I never owned one of my own but used them at work for years.  Dampened white alps IIRC, sounds promising, thanks for the info...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

My heavily worn complicated blue board feels very similar to brand new Fukkas, very smooth and clean and sharp. My only recollection of the Macintosh 128K keyboard and the ALPS PowerMac (?) board was that they were very light and smooth, like Cherry MX blue, but like all ALPS, they had a loud clack sound that makes them in many ways as good as clicky, especially because a solid clack sound is much deeper than the click sound in many cases. Complicated blues, though, have a deep, resonant click – hopefully the Tactile Pro 5 will introduce a clicky switch similar to the complicated blue …

And aluminium cases …

Then there's the black keycaps – I'd love to hear that they'll be doubleshot, but I don't believe that for a moment. All-over coated pad printing is the next best, as it doesn't dirty and break up like laser spooge, but it can all wear off in an ugly way. I don't know what Topre use for their dark gold lettering – looks like paint. I've even seen a brand new Dell Latitude laptop a couple of months back without the decal look – maybe they used all-over coating? Couldn't tell, but it was so wonderful to see that even Dell will, occasionally, make an effort over quality. Decal look is for chumps.

For white keyboards (e.g. TP3) you want dyesub, as it's inky black and smooth (if done right – Acer did it perfectly), unlike the erratic grey scarring from laser.

[Matias]

If so, should also be similar to the SGI Granite keyboards I used years ago and liked quite well.  I never owned one of my own but used them at work for years.  Dampened white alps IIRC, sounds promising, thanks for the info...

Yes, the SGI Granite keyboards used the same switches.  They're a solid solution to the noise problem.  :-)