Author Topic: Project: SSK revival (Read 60772 times)

mkawa · « **Reply #50 on:** Sun, 02 September 2012, 09:38:50 »

don't get too excited. my design guy and i are still trying to figure out how to construct a case that doesn't cost a million dollars to machine, and treble's shop is down until probably december at the earliest regardless.

wcass · « **Reply #51 on:** Sun, 02 September 2012, 15:55:06 »

one option is to do it without the curve. i am doing some test and can share the below pictures. the barrel frame was cut off of a model M 122 key. it is clipped to a flat clear acrylic backplate. some of the keys have F hammer/spring and others have M hammer/springs. some have 1.5mm neoprene cushion, some have floss in the spring. i'm looking for noise reduction without changing the feel of the key too much. i'll post some video when available. it is very interesting to watch the keys work from the bottom.

sordna · « **Reply #52 on:** Tue, 04 September 2012, 16:41:20 »

I like this layout! It's in-between a Poker and a RACE/Nopoo/etc, I've been looking for a mini keyboard with arrow keys but without a dedicated function row! As others said, replace Sroll Lock with backtick/tilde, you can put rarely used keys in an Fn layer, but backtick/tilde is a frequently used key for lots of folks.

Quote from: wcass on Sun, 29 July 2012, 17:59:30

what do you think of this layout? the keys left of the left arrow and up arrow are stepped "caps lock" keys. this should help isolate the arrow block.
Show Image

Spunkie · « **Reply #53 on:** Tue, 04 September 2012, 17:57:22 »

Very interested in this. ^_^

If this project moves forward you should redesign the membrane/pcb so it can support 6KRO+, it sucks there are no buckling spring boards not limited to 2KRO.

jwaz · « **Reply #54 on:** Tue, 04 September 2012, 22:17:23 »

This would be infinitely cooler IMO if we could do it with capacitive buckling spring mechanisms, they feel SO much better than standard. I realize Unicomp probably doesn't stock the hardware but I continue to pipe dream myself to sleep nonetheless...

wcass · « **Reply #55 on:** Tue, 04 September 2012, 23:11:09 »

Quote from: JesuswasaZombie on Tue, 04 September 2012, 22:17:23

This would be infinitely cooler IMO if we could do it with capacitive buckling spring mechanisms, they feel SO much better than standard. I realize Unicomp probably doesn't stock the hardware but I continue to pipe dream myself to sleep nonetheless...

if anyone wants to tackle the controller, i have already done much of the work for a capacitive matrix.

Icarium · « **Reply #56 on:** Wed, 05 September 2012, 05:07:51 »

I thought DFJ already had a custom controller built?

wcass · « **Reply #57 on:** Wed, 05 September 2012, 14:29:43 »

yep. he relased a list of parts but no schematic or code.

... unless you can find it.

mkawa · « **Reply #58 on:** Wed, 05 September 2012, 15:07:52 »

Quote from: Icarium on Wed, 05 September 2012, 05:07:51

I thought DFJ already had a custom controller built?

eh?

mkawa · « **Reply #59 on:** Mon, 01 October 2012, 22:18:44 »

some early work from my CAD guy. please wish him luck everyone. he starts chemo tomorrow

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24794081/kb%20bottom.jpg

SmallFry · « **Reply #60 on:** Mon, 01 October 2012, 23:09:22 »

Thoughts and prayers to him, tell him I'm rooting for him.

The_Beast · « **Reply #61 on:** Mon, 01 October 2012, 23:11:07 »

Instead of a TKL BS, what about a 60% BS board? I think that would be super cool. Hopefully a kit comes out that people can DIY most of it.

mkawa · « **Reply #62 on:** Mon, 01 October 2012, 23:20:42 »

it would be super cool but also a much much bigger design and production project. i'm staying attainable here.

Spunkie · « **Reply #63 on:** Mon, 01 October 2012, 23:27:29 »

Quote from: mkawa on Mon, 01 October 2012, 23:20:42

it would be super cool but also a much much bigger design and production project. i'm staying attainable here.

Does that "attainable" include model F springs/hammers/board/controller or are you talking about a straight up SSK copy still?

mkawa · « **Reply #64 on:** Tue, 02 October 2012, 02:39:16 »

SSK internals with a new, cheaper, easy to source chassis.

kywirelessguy · « **Reply #65 on:** Sat, 20 October 2012, 10:59:34 »

Do you plan on just cutting off the end of a full size barrel plate? Does Unicomp sell SSK mylars?

W.C. Fields · « **Reply #66 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 16:32:14 »

VERY interested!

wcass · « **Reply #67 on:** Thu, 25 October 2012, 17:15:40 »

what is the plan to use for a controller? NOS would be PS2. Atmel/teensy based for USB?

snoopy · « **Reply #68 on:** Sat, 27 October 2012, 19:50:50 »

I hope this will happen! BS is so awesome

mkawa · « **Reply #69 on:** Sun, 28 October 2012, 08:57:24 »

so here's the current status: i have a bucket full of parts, all of which combined will make at least one new SSK internal assembly. the trick is that the membranes i have are full-sized. the last remaining task before the first assembly is completed is to reverse engineer the matrix so that when i slice off the extraneous bit of membrane, i can use a circuitwriter or some 24+ga rework wire to patch up the switch matrix. these membranes will interface with the original IBM PCBs and controller.

in terms of casing, my friend and I are starting to look at options for _low pressure_ plastic molding. in particular, acrylic can be formed into an arc without expensive high pressure molds being made (think of it this way: take a sheet of acrylic, heat it, bend it, cool it). i have a guy locally that can do this kind of work in volume, but my bud is in the middle of chemo and can't look at a computer screen half the time without becoming nauseous. obviously the priority is on his health during this difficult time, so i'm mostly mulling over ideas and staring at the assemblies i have until he feels up to making some drawings.

wcass: yes, NOS controllers will be PS/2, but they work quite well using high quality PS2 -> USB adapters. in the worst case, a run of soarer's adapters can be designed and manufactured ezpz. i'd rather do this than try to navigate the space of switch matrices that are available (yes, there is more than one, and only the guys at unicomp know which p/ns match up with which other p/ns)

singaporean123 · « **Reply #70 on:** Sun, 28 October 2012, 09:13:08 »

Hopefully they won't have to cost $200..

mkawa · « **Reply #71 on:** Wed, 07 November 2012, 22:30:23 »

i'm currently working with several minor details involving variations in plate thickness and bolt pressure and have been sampling imperfect but working assemblies. the only thing this project needs at the moment is a low cost case design. i'm pursuing several design leads at the moment (low pressure acrylic is _not_ one of them unfortunately, as my local source has proven to be unreliable); let me know if you have any ideas and will not flake out.

mkawa · « **Reply #72 on:** Fri, 23 November 2012, 08:50:11 »

yesterday i built the first bolt-secured brand-new-components SSK in possibly ever.

happy thanksgiving everyone

damorgue · « **Reply #73 on:** Fri, 23 November 2012, 08:52:56 »

In what kind of case?

Shadovved · « **Reply #74 on:** Fri, 23 November 2012, 08:52:56 »

Quote from: mkawa on Fri, 23 November 2012, 08:50:11

yesterday i built the first bolt-secured brand-new-components SSK in possibly ever.

happy thanksgiving everyone

Pics or it never happened

mkawa · « **Reply #75 on:** Fri, 23 November 2012, 09:32:59 »

Quote from: damorgue on Fri, 23 November 2012, 08:52:56

In what kind of case?

the original case

also, it just looks like an SSK. at the moment, that's the point

snoopy · « **Reply #76 on:** Sat, 24 November 2012, 06:25:18 »

we want pics!

Rinsaku · « **Reply #77 on:** Tue, 27 November 2012, 16:51:51 »

This is Awesome! I can't wait, I'll take 3!

jspark · « **Reply #78 on:** Wed, 28 November 2012, 15:04:49 »

mkawa, your project includes a case as well? If not, do I have to buy an original SSK case?

mkawa · « **Reply #79 on:** Wed, 28 November 2012, 16:08:19 »

sorry, i haven't updated this in a while (or the OP ever, it looks like), but here's what's going on:

1) new case project is mostly stalled. i ave a number of ideas but need more CAD help

2) i have been gathering old and new SSK parts for a number of months. I have a stash of boards that I am refurbishing, and using the opportunity to build a more or less repeatable manufacturing process and specification for SSKs.

3) as i said, i can build new completely working internal assemblies out of brand new parts from unicomp. unicomp has been working with me on sourcing these, but i am still working out the construction kinks. the original IBM design-for-manufacturing is ingenius, but does not translate as cleanly and uniformly to construction-by-hand as one would like.

4) a crucial part of the manufacturing process is converting 104-key membranes to 84-key membranes. i have two ugly ways to do so and have proofed both methods to build working assemblies. however, i am looking for a more elegant method, and have some more ideas that i'm trying out.

now the important part: how can you help? first, in the coming weeks i will be selling some prototypes. these will be functional, refurbished SSKs that have a weird quirk or two. each board will come in an original IBM SSK case, but will have some combination of new and old internals. the reason i will be doing this is to fund case prototyping, so i will be asking a little over market (although there hasn't been much of a supply of SSKs lately, frankly).

second, i need help in the following areas: CAD work, laser cutting (acrylic or thin alum sheeting), 3d-printing, possibly some 2-axis cnc time. as always, let me know if you can help with this and won't flake.

thanks dudes!

wcass · « **Reply #80 on:** Wed, 28 November 2012, 23:19:51 »

i will volunteer to do CAD work. i can do 2D but not 3D. i have used my 2D CAD files to get acrylic cut at Pololu. I also have been playing with KiCAD.

i would like to suggest replacing the bottom sheet of membrane with thin, flexible PCB to mount diodes and Atmel for NKRO. i'm picking some of this up next week: http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/coppercladboard23x17x00080.aspx

the original bottom membrane is .005" so .008 would hardly be noticed. one sheet should do 4 or 5 boards.

as for the diodes, was thinking using a sub-mini array - common cathode by 5 anode (one diode per 5 switches - place out of the way above the F keys). these are $.50 each at Digikey. http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ds31437.pdf

i have gotten pretty good at DIY etching, but have no experience with sub-mini surface mount. if anyone would like to volunteer to do the surface mount, i would pay for all parts to make two and only ask you to ship one back.

alaricljs · « **Reply #81 on:** Thu, 29 November 2012, 09:20:28 »

If by that you mean the soldering work, I'm capable/willing as long as all parts are leaded. I have no reflow tools.

damorgue · « **Reply #82 on:** Thu, 29 November 2012, 10:44:59 »

Quote from: mkawa on Wed, 28 November 2012, 16:08:19

1) new case project is mostly stalled. i ave a number of ideas but need more CAD help

If above 2D-guy isn't enough, I could help.
Edit: I do both 3D and 2D

The_Beast · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 29 November 2012, 10:56:10 »

I could do 3d, but it's hard to find the time or have any kind of set schedule of when I could help.

If the 2d guy does the heavy lifting and you just need 3d models, then that would help me help you

wcass · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 29 November 2012, 17:56:15 »

Quote from: alaricljs on Thu, 29 November 2012, 09:20:28

If by that you mean the soldering work, I'm capable/willing as long as all parts are leaded. I have no reflow tools.

the diodes i would like to use would require reflow (5 or 6 connections in a 1.6mm square package - one on bottom). i would like to use that diode because i would only need to use 17 for an SSK. going with non-array diodes would require 85ish.

nfc · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 29 November 2012, 19:01:55 »

I'm in, if you want: 2D and 3D cad.

mkawa · « **Reply #86 on:** Tue, 04 December 2012, 07:41:41 »

sorry guys, i've been convalescing the past week. damorgue and nfc, i'm going to ping you about 3d cad work

wcass: holy crap, awesome find. a couple points to note: that pcb is double sided, so one side should be layered with latex or something to prevent conductive contact with the backplate. second, i'm junk at etching, so yes, definite need to collaborate on this.

alaricljs · « **Reply #87 on:** Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:19:42 »

If there's only 1 bottom pad and the rest are leads it shouldn't be too much of a pain (for prototyping) to punch a hole through the PCB and solder it from the bottom. This is even more true on such a thin PCB

keyboardlover · « **Reply #88 on:** Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:55:28 »

Yea, how does Unicomp feel about this? It seemed like they were interested in doing a mini-run of these before. They did a big interest check for it where we were supposed to send them tickets.

Also, will these have at least 6kro? I apologized if that was posted before but didn't see it in the OP.

jspark · « **Reply #89 on:** Wed, 05 December 2012, 08:43:58 »

Quote from: keyboardlover on Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:55:28

Yea, how does Unicomp feel about this? It seemed like they were interested in doing a mini-run of these before. They did a big interest check for it where we were supposed to send them tickets.

Also, will these have at least 6kro? I apologized if that was posted before but didn't see it in the OP.

I don't know about Unicomp's position on this project, but I know that Unicomp is not interested in Tenkeyless Keyboard yet. I have asked what they have planned for TKL keyboard. The response I got was they do not make TKL keyboard in near future. I don't know how long the "near future" refers to.
Anyhow, I guess it is more than 2013....

wcass · « **Reply #90 on:** Wed, 05 December 2012, 21:11:18 »

i picked a different diode that should be much easier to solder and am hard at work designing a prototype. the new diode array is an 8x - equivalent to 8 discrete diodes but in a single SOIC16 package. the prototype will use 11 of these.

Quote from: dante on Tue, 04 December 2012, 10:46:10

Is this something that Unicomp will license from you to put in mass production?

i don't think that what i am doing here is anything new. using a diode to isolate a switch is fair use. but it does make it possible to give membrane keyboards full NKRO with the right controller. i think the reason this has not been done before is strictly cost. in volume, a silk screened membrane probably costs < $2; what i am doing will likely cost > $20 per keyboard.

mkawa · « **Reply #91 on:** Thu, 06 December 2012, 13:29:04 »

to be clear about the new case project, i am trying to have designed the cheapest possible thing that will allow you folks to use ssk assemblies as keyboards. that's basically it. nfc is now lead on this. if you have ideas, PM both him and i.

here's one thing we're using as our inspiration right now

http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml

jspark · « **Reply #92 on:** Thu, 06 December 2012, 16:54:25 »

Quote from: mkawa on Thu, 06 December 2012, 13:29:04

here's one thing we're using as our inspiration right now http://steampunkworkshop.com/keyboard.shtml

Yeah, steampunk is amazing. The typewriter theme SSK is very tempting.

samwisekoi · « **Reply #93 on:** Thu, 13 December 2012, 19:13:04 »

Thinking about the SSK and the GH60 made me want to build this:

Artist rendering.

- Ron | samwisekoi

wcass · « **Reply #94 on:** Thu, 13 December 2012, 23:19:48 »

Quote from: samwisekoi on Thu, 13 December 2012, 19:13:04

Thinking about the SSK and the GH60 made me want to build this:

Artist rendering.

- Ron | samwisekoi

i thought the same thing too, but where is Esc and the fn key? i counter with ... (see post #12 of this thread).

snoopy · « **Reply #95 on:** Fri, 14 December 2012, 04:51:34 »

Quote from: samwisekoi on Thu, 13 December 2012, 19:13:04

Thinking about the SSK and the GH60 made me want to build this:

(Attachment Link)
Artist rendering.

- Ron | samwisekoi

I dream about this: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34631.0

samwisekoi · « **Reply #96 on:** Fri, 14 December 2012, 07:31:25 »

Quote from: wcass on Thu, 13 December 2012, 23:19:48

Quote from: samwisekoi on Thu, 13 December 2012, 19:13:04
Thinking about the SSK and the GH60 made me want to build this:

Artist rendering.

- Ron | samwisekoi
i thought the same thing too, but where is Esc and the fn key? i counter with ... (see post #12 of this thread).

Here is my current thinking on the keycaps. (Alternative uses for the Caps Lock key still brewing.)

Also, I've got the cut-lines worked out. I am thinking about a case/platform, how to accommodate the double-fold needed, and where to put the LEDs. Mr. mkawa has provided a contact at Unicomp, but I am not quite ready to discuss/order component parts.

Besides, today is Launch Day for the Elvish Group Buy!

- Ron | samwisekoi

snoopy · « **Reply #97 on:** Sat, 15 December 2012, 16:45:59 »

Maybe it's a bit early to ask about smaller details, but:
Is there a notch for a sticker designated?

Are there plans to do a replica of the small ibm badge/sticker (top left corner)?

Is Unicomp able to produce the ssk specific keycaps with the additional symbols (maybe even iso)?

snoopy

wcass · « **Reply #98 on:** Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:05:33 »

i created replica/replacement labels for real IBM keyboards, but there is a legal issue with putting an IBM label on a keyboard that IBM didn't make.

we could design unique labels for this. i would definitely go for a birth certificate done in the style of the IBM back label.

and i can confirm that Unicomp does make SSK specific keycaps - even in iso!

litster · « **Reply #99 on:** Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:46:22 »

Quote from: wcass on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:05:33

and i can confirm that Unicomp does make SSK specific keycaps - even in iso!

Including prints on the embedded numpad?

News:

Author Topic: Project: SSK revival (Read 60772 times)