DAMN IT, i've been duped? (noppoo mini)|

[viowastaken]

Hi everyone, I posted this same thread on Overclock, but I figured I'd ask/share here  too as people probably know more here


--

So,

I have a Noppoo Choc mini with cherry mx Reds already, and I decided to get one with Browns and give the one with reds away to a friend.

I order one from "intelligent-pro" on ebay, who had 25k+ transactions with 99.4% positive feedback. A sure thing, I figure.




Today I got my package, and immediately some things strike me as very odd.
The space bar where Noppoo is written has been overwritten with a sharpie or other type of marker. The Noppoo logo on the back of the keyboard has also been overwritten.
The keys them selves are not the matte white that the regular noppoo choc mini is, not that that necessarily is a drawback, but it clearly indicates that this keyboard is odd.
The keyboards have a clear difference in height and angle of the keys them selves.
The support pads underneath are clearly different.
The "case" of the keyboard is very different.

The first noppoo choc mini that I ordered was from Qtan which is a beyond repute dealer on eBay who has had intimate contact with geekhack etc. He's legit, and I know for a fact that the cherry mx red keyboard is legit.
This one with cherry mx browns is clearly a copy of some kind. **** this sucks.

Thoughts?
Here are some pics of my genuine keyboard next to this other presumably fake one:
Pic album: http://imgur.com/a/H9vo1#0

[mkawa]

this is exceedingly bizarre. qtan and imsto might have a better guess as to what this actually is.

[alaricljs]

I don't know how drastically, but I do know that there was a change to the Choc Mini to improve legend readability and that your first one is definitely prior to that change.  I've not seen pics of one after they made that change.  That said, the marker on the space bar and the casing screams 'You got a used KB dude'

[viowastaken]

Hi guys,

Yes, it's wierd.

As mentioned it's not just the keycaps. As you can see from the pictures, the "frames" of the boards are very different, the height and angles of the keys are different. The space bar sucks on the brown(fake) version. It has an angle that really digs into your thumb when you press it.

I took out the ctrl key from each keyboard to compare, and the one which i'm assuming is fake just seems so cheaply built. Super sharp edges, very unrefined.

[alaricljs]

Noppoo hasn't updated their own pics either.

[yearn4]

well at least you ordered from ebay so you can just dispute it and get your money back

[viowastaken]

well at least you ordered from ebay so you can just dispute it and get your money back

I sure hope so. Stupid scammers... 

[therecorder]

I buy almost everything from Qtang, but, about a month ago, I wanted a white Noppoo, and he couldn't get me one.  So, I bought one from "intelligent-pro".  No problems...  Perfect board.  Try sending a note and your link to "intelligent-pro", and see what they say.

[hoggy]

Does it give nkro?

[askramagon]

Hey!

Its strange but i bought my from the same seller also brown one and i've got the same board like you, with covered noppoo brand mark by some kind on marker. Im not specialist but NKRO do work.
Also packaging was different and it included keycap puller.

Thanks so much

[viowastaken]

So the seller basically says the reason they mark over the logos on the keyboard is so it doesn't get caught in customs? this just seems too wierd to me.

I'd really appreciate some input from someone who might know what the deal is with whether or not this is a newer generation of board, or some knockoff.

[xJaPx]

seems like a lot of trouble to go through to pass off knock off boards, especially for someone with 25K transactions.  does it feel solid like your old noppoo?

[viowastaken]

seems like a lot of trouble to go through to pass off knock off boards, especially for someone with 25K transactions.  does it feel solid like your old noppoo?

Weight and mass-wise they seem quite similar.

One other thing to note was that when i had my old mini plugged into the pc with a PS2 adapter and the new keyboard in the regular USB connector, when turning on and off capslock etc the lights on each board would light up at the same time. I'm guessing that indicates some type of hardware similarity.

The keys and general "feel" of typing on the board is a bit superior on the old 100% certain old one.
The build quality doesn't really seem to differ much though. I'm actually starting to think this may be a newer generation one, though I find it a bit wierd that they would significantly change the frame of the keyboard.
Updating the keycaps, sure, but why make an entirely new tray? doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyways, really eager to hear from someone who is more knowledgeable on the subject.

[aeta]

Looks like an updated version to me if you ignore the marks

[alaricljs]

You can plug 10 KBs into a system and they'll all light the caps/num/scroll lock leds simultaneously because they are told to do that by the PC.

The frame change is a bit unusual since in my experience the OEMs tend to have as few styles as possible.  Spare and square is Costar (filco/CM QF/...)  Leopold is a lot more like what that newer Noppoo looks like.  On the other hand the massive WASDkb frame is also a Costar, but those are the only 2 styles I know of from Costar.

[dorkvader]

Plug it in and get the vendor and device ID's. If they match, it's more evidence that it's legit

[viowastaken]

Hi thanks for the advice regarding ID.

I'm not entirely sure how to find it. What I did was go through device manager and then select the keyboard. Based on what I read in a guide i googled up on how to find the vendor device ID they listed things such as Three letters, some numbers, and &, and three letters and some more numbers. Ex:
VEN_8203&DEV_3B09.

I'm guessing the VEN part is the vendor ID?
Anyone know how I can find noppoo's vendor ID? I'll check what mine is when I get home from work and post it up here.

[dorkvader]

I was thinking of just running the "lsusb" command in linux, but if you're in windows, device manager is as good a utility as any.

So is Vendor: 8203 and Device: 3B09 what you got for your keyboard, or was that just an example? Can you borrow the "known real" noppoo with reds back from you friend for a bit, to get the ID's? Can someone with a noppoo post theirs here?

(I wasn't able to find noppoo's vendor ID any other way, onilne.)

[viowastaken]

Mine says: "VEN_8086&DEV_1C46".

Unfortunately I just gave away the one with cherry reds to a friend T_T ! I could ask him, but he uses OSX.

Anyone else have a noppoo or know if this is right?
I may keep the board anyways as the feel is growing on me and i do prefer cherry browns over any other switch.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Vendor 8086 is Intel. VEN&DEV is a PCI device identifier – looks like your Intel chipset to me.

USB devices are given as VID&PID, e.g. my FILCO, in XP's Device Manager:

BARRAX → Keyboards → HID Keyboard Device
HID\VID_04D9&PID_2011...

Vendor 04D9 is Holtek Semiconductor, Inc. – linux-usb.org doesn't have device 2011 but Holtek must be the controller IC vendor for Costar as device 2013 is listed as "Keyboard [Das Keyboard]".

[viowastaken]

Hm. I'm also using a USB to PS2 adapter thingie. Is that maybe a culprit?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If the keyboard has a PS/2 connector, and you've connected a PS/2 to USB adapter into the computer, then yes, all you will see in Device Manager is the hardware ID of the adapter itself. I wasn't aware that Intel made the chips for any of those, but it's possible. Mine is PID_0D3D&VID_0001: Tangtop Technology Co., Ltd HID Keyboard. (It's a bluecube that doesn't have the nice Cypress chip in it – that would be VID_04B4)

[viowastaken]

Thanks for that, I'm at work again but I'll check via USB when I get home.

[viowastaken]

ok so the Hardware ID' section shows the following:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_01&Col02
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_01&Col02
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE


Those strings seem to be the only describing stuff in the tab.

edit: and I can't find any vendor by googling the ID. Any input from the experts? Thanks in advance.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Weird, no, no vendor 0x1007 in the list I reference either. No idea who they are. I would have expected the vendor ID to be someone well known for keyboard controller ICs.

[askramagon]

Hey!
As i said before on this topic, i've got simillar keyboard and i would also like to post my Hardware ID, theres 3 keyboards cuz noppoo emulates it and
First ID:

HID\VID_046D&PID_C068&REV_5802&MI_01&Col01
HID\VID_046D&PID_C068&MI_01&Col01
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Second ID:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_00
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_00
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Third ID:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_01&Col02
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_01&Col02
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Best Regards

[viowastaken]

Hey!
As i said before on this topic, i've got simillar keyboard and i would also like to post my Hardware ID, theres 3 keyboards cuz noppoo emulates it and
First ID:

HID\VID_046D&PID_C068&REV_5802&MI_01&Col01
HID\VID_046D&PID_C068&MI_01&Col01
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Second ID:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_00
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_00
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Third ID:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_01&Col02
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_01&Col02
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Best Regards

Cool, looks like we at least have similar boards.

To be honest, after I got used to the space bar angle I quite like it. Even if it is fake and I get my money back I think I'll keep using it.
Hopefully someone with noppoo knowledge such as Qtan or others could chime in and let us know whats up

[alaricljs]

qtan doesn't really browse the forums.  You have a question for him it would be best to PM or email him.

[viowastaken]

qtan doesn't really browse the forums.  You have a question for him it would be best to PM or email him.

If I understood correctly, askramagon mailed Qtan and is awaiting a response.

[askramagon]

qtan doesn't really browse the forums.  You have a question for him it would be best to PM or email him.

If I understood correctly, askramagon mailed Qtan and is awaiting a response.

Yea I did, he asked me for S/N number, becouse he said that its hard to tell if its fake or not.

Best regards

[viowastaken]

qtan doesn't really browse the forums.  You have a question for him it would be best to PM or email him.

If I understood correctly, askramagon mailed Qtan and is awaiting a response.

Yea I did, he asked me for S/N number, becouse he said that its hard to tell if its fake or not.

Best regards

Excellent.
Eager to hear the response.

[dorkvader]

Hey!
As i said before on this topic, i've got simillar keyboard and i would also like to post my Hardware ID, theres 3 keyboards cuz noppoo emulates it and
First ID:

HID\VID_046D&PID_C068&REV_5802&MI_01&Col01
HID\VID_046D&PID_C068&MI_01&Col01
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Second ID:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_00
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_00
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Third ID:

HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&REV_0100&MI_01&Col02
HID\VID_1007&PID_8400&MI_01&Col02
HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_KEYBOARD
HID_DEVICE_UP:0001_U:0006
HID_DEVICE

Best Regards

Based on this, I would assume that the actual ID is 046D, and the other two are the emulated ones.

[viowastaken]

BTT,

Sorry but I have an open case pending on eBay to pursue a claim, but I don't want to take it any further if this is a genuine second generation noppoo.

Any experts?

Thanks in advance, really hope someone could help me figure out what's what.

[davkol]

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[viowastaken]

hm, I don't know about dimensions, but if you could post a picture that would be awesome

[never4getthis]

I will be getting my Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Blue) from Amazon either tomorrow or on wednesday. I dont think it will be fake from Amazon so I will post some pictures.

[Velma]

i cannot give any comment on the board, BUT the covering of the logo to avoid customs sounds very very fishy. I buy a lot of expensive clothes online and for example i have bought at least 10 expensive garments (about 1000$ boots and jackets) from asia and all the sender has to do is Mark the package as gift, and there is no way they can force you to pay customs. I once recieved a package containing a pair of Dior Boots (a brand that anyone who works at the customs knows is very expensive lol) that had been opened and resealed in the customs but since it was marked as "gift" i didnt have to pay ****. I have made over 30 1grand+ purchases from people outside EU and i have never had to pay a single penny in customs as long as the seller marked the package right. And as i mentioned i have had very famous designer high-end clothes manually examined by someone at the customs and they still did not charge me anything because it was a gift, if something is marked as free there is no value to tax on, even if said item is woth 5grands because there is no transaction to tax.

Its a very fishy "excuse" (if it is) to hide a fake board because 1, most well rated sellers know how to mark packages right to avoid customers having to pay custom taxes. 2, a serious seller would not bother to harm the products re-sale value by destroying the logo without consulting the buyer first, especially not for such a nonsense reason. Customs is only a concern for the reciever so i see absolutley no reason for a serious seller to even bother do such a thing when there is and easier way that doesnt ruin the re-sale value of the item for the buyer.

[viowastaken]

@ Davkool, thanks for the feedback. Could you let me know how the edges of your board look? here is the picture with both of mine, you'll see the difference: http://i.imgur.com/FBana.jpg
The one with sharper angles is the old, the one with the more rounded edges is the new.

@never4getthis Thanks, I'll be waiting eagerly.

@Velma I agree. I'm not interested in reaming the guy too hard, I figure if it's a legit board I'll just let it go.
Regardless I am very displeased with the unannounced marking of the logos. I tried to wipe off the keyboard logo markings, but it just left the old one looking pretty **** as well. Not a huge huge deal, but still, if I'm buying a new product I'm not counting on it to be ****ing doodled on.

[Alessandro]

Personally I find that very weird. My first board was a Choc Mini with blacks which I bought from Intelligent Pro, his feedback was solid for these boards and mine arrived in perfect shape. Nothing like what you have here.
Take the case up with him via PM as a few have done before and see what he says.

[nullstring]

@ Davkool, thanks for the feedback. Could you let me know how the edges of your board look? here is the picture with both of mine, you'll see the difference: http://i.imgur.com/FBana.jpg
The one with sharper angles is the old, the one with the more rounded edges is the new.

@never4getthis Thanks, I'll be waiting eagerly.

@Velma I agree. I'm not interested in reaming the guy too hard, I figure if it's a legit board I'll just let it go.
Regardless I am very displeased with the unannounced marking of the logos. I tried to wipe off the keyboard logo markings, but it just left the old one looking pretty **** as well. Not a huge huge deal, but still, if I'm buying a new product I'm not counting on it to be ****ing doodled on.

Sharp edges look nicer.
As alessandro said, contact him via PM.
It's quite possible this was completely unintentional and his supplier gave him a bad item. (And he didn't check.)

That sort of stuff happens in China all the time.

[davkol]

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[viowastaken]

Some pictures, if it helps.

edit: syntax

Thanks!! that looks exactly like mine. I'll not be a **** and give the guy positive feedback I guess...


Thanks again, that solved the mystery for me.

 

[Alessandro]

Excellent! The main thing is that you still have a board you like, now go get some custom keycaps for it!

[davkol]

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[never4getthis]

Just to confirm, you got a good board   . I just recieved mine from Amazon and it is like yours. Here are some pics:
The keys are also bright and the edges are not sharp. In the pictures (compared to the old one) the new one looks worse but in real life it looks really good!

[Alessandro]

Nice!

As has been said, sort out the logos and you'll still have a great quality board! It could do with some custom caps though!

[viowastaken]

Thanks again all,

Hopefully this thread will be of use to others to confirm that noppoo has apparently gone through a generation switch of the mini boards.

[dorkvader]

Nice!

As has been said, sort out the logos and you'll still have a great quality board! It could do with some custom caps though!

Some people pay extra to have less logos. Look at the filco/CMstorm debate

[Alessandro]

Nice!

As has been said, sort out the logos and you'll still have a great quality board! It could do with some custom caps though!

Some people pay extra to have less logos. Look at the filco/CMstorm debate

Yeah, but what you need to bear in mind with that is that the CM Storm really does look horrible with all it's logos, where as Filco's tend to just have one on the side of the case.

[PointyFox]

Dat Filco